Participants: Pr. Stephen Bohr
Series Code: WOE
Program Code: WOE000001
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00:15 Let's pray, father in heaven,
00:18 we come before Your thrown today 00:21 to ask as we have done before 00:24 for the presence of your Holy Spirit 00:26 through the ministry of Your angels 00:28 as we open Your holy word. 00:30 Help us to have open minds and hearts to receive Your word. 00:34 Remove from us any preconceived ideas that we might have 00:38 that we might be able to hear Your voice and Your voice only. 00:42 And we thank you for the privilege of prayer 00:44 and for hearing us for we ask it in Jesus' name, amen. 00:52 The title of our study today is 00:55 "Subordinate but Equal, the divine model." 00:59 And I would like to begin by formulating two questions 01:03 that will set the stage for what we are going to discuss. 01:07 Question number one is this. 01:09 Is it possible for two persons to be ontologically equal 01:15 that as equal as beings 01:18 to have the same abilities and capacities 01:22 and yet to fulfill different roles in ministry? 01:26 Once again, very important question. 01:29 Is it possible for two persons to be equal as beings 01:34 and yet to have the same abilities and capacities 01:38 and have different roles in ministry? 01:41 The second question that I would like to ask is this. 01:45 Is it possible for two people to be ontologically equal, 01:49 that means equal as beings 01:52 and yet functionally have one be in subjection to the other? 01:58 In other words, is it possible for two beings to be equal 02:01 and yet have one of those beings be subject to the other? 02:07 Now, there are two women that have written a book, 02:11 the name of the book is "All we're Meant to Be, 02:15 a Biblical Approach to Women's Liberation," 02:18 page 110, where the two authors state 02:22 that it is absolutely impossible for two individuals to be equal 02:28 and yet have one be subordinate to another. 02:32 I would like to read a quotation from this book on page 110 02:36 where they state the following. 02:39 Many Christians thus speak of a wives 02:43 being equal to herhusband in personhood, 02:47 but subordinate in function. 02:51 However, this is just playing word games 02:55 and is a contradiction in terms. 02:58 Equality and subordination are contradictions. 03:04 In other words, what they are saying 03:05 is that it's impossible to have two beings that are equal 03:09 and yet have one be subordinate to the other. 03:13 Now in recent years some Bible scholars 03:16 among them some Seventh-day Adventist 03:19 have attempted to prove that in God's original plan, 03:23 there was never the idea of submission of Eve 03:27 to the headship of Adam but rather God intended 03:32 that they be absolutely equal not only in status 03:36 but also in their roles and in their functions. 03:41 What these scholars are saying is that only after the fall, 03:45 did God say that the wife should subject herself to her husband, 03:50 but when Jesus died on the cross, 03:53 this subjection of the wife to the husband was removed 03:58 and once again it was returned to the original status. 04:03 In short what these scholars are saying is that 04:06 although Adam and Eve were created biologically different, 04:11 Adam was not given the headship role in marriage 04:15 until the period between the fall 04:18 and the cross of Christ. 04:20 In the view of these scholars, submission on the part of wives 04:25 is a less than ideal arrangement 04:28 which was removed at the cross 04:31 and now there is neither male nor female 04:34 in the sense that husbands and wives 04:37 not only are equal in status and in value, 04:40 but they also have identical roles. 04:44 Now in this presentation today, 04:46 I would like us to take a look at this issue 04:49 from a much broader perspective 04:52 than the relationship between husbands and wives. 04:55 I would like us to take a look at this issue 04:57 from a cosmic perspective. 05:00 And once again as we examine this cosmic perspective, 05:04 we are going to answer the two questions 05:06 that we began our study with. 05:08 And I review those two questions 05:09 because they are very, very important. 05:12 Question number one is this. 05:14 Is it possible for two persons to be equal 05:18 to be involved in ministry, to possess the same abilities 05:23 and yet to have different roles or functions? 05:26 The second question is. 05:28 Is it possible for two persons to be equal as beings 05:33 and yet have one be in submission 05:36 or in subjection to the other? 05:39 In our study today we are going to take a look 05:42 at the most intimate relationship 05:44 that exists in the universe, 05:46 the relationship between God the father and God the son. 05:51 And we are going to take this as a model of the relationship 05:54 that should exist between husbands and wives. 05:58 In our study we will see very clearly 06:02 that the equality of beings 06:06 as it relates to the Father and Son, 06:09 there is no doubt that they are absolutely equal 06:13 and yet we are going to find that 06:15 Jesus Christ has subjected Himself to His Father, 06:21 not only after sin but before sin came into the universe 06:26 and Jesus will subject Himself to the authority of His Father, 06:29 even when sin is finally eradicated from the universe. 06:34 In other words even though the Father and the Son are equal 06:38 they have different functions 06:41 and even in eternity past and in eternity future, 06:44 the Son has been subject to His Father 06:48 and will be subject to His Father for ever. 06:52 Now its agreed virtually by all theologians 06:56 in the Seventh-day Adventist Church as well as 06:58 outside the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 07:00 that God the Father and Jesus Christ 07:03 are ontologically equal, 07:05 that means that they are equal as beings. 07:08 They agree that Father and Son are eternal. 07:12 Each is omnipotent, omniscient, 07:15 omnipresent and morally perfect. 07:18 And they believe this because the Bible teaches it. 07:21 Notice John 1:1 where we find this idea clearly express 07:28 that the Father and the Son are equal, they are both God. 07:32 This very well known verse says, 07:34 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, 07:39 and the Word was God." Not a God but God. 07:45 In other words the Father and the Son are equally God, 07:50 from eternity, eternity past and eternity future. 07:55 So John 1:1 clearly tells us that the Father and the Son 08:00 are both God, they are equal. 08:03 There is another text in the New Testament 08:05 and there are others, we are only going to take a look 08:07 at two of them that expresses clearly 08:10 the equality of the Father and the Son. 08:13 Philippians 2:5 and 6, Philippians 2:5 and 6 08:19 Here the Apostle Paul says this, 08:21 "Have this mind among yourselves, 08:24 which is yours in Christ Jesus, 08:27 who, though he was in the form of God, 08:31 speaking of Christ, though he was in the form of God, 08:34 did not count equality with God as a thing to be grasped." 08:40 Now, somebody might wonder about the expression form of God. 08:45 Really the word form that is used there 08:47 is the Greek word morphe and it refers not to-- 08:52 an outward form it refers to the substance 08:56 or the stuff that God is made of. 08:59 In other words Jesus Christ 09:00 is made of the same stuff as God the Father. 09:04 And you will notice here that before Jesus became incarnate, 09:09 He was equal with God but He did not consider equality 09:13 with God as something to be grasped 09:15 and therefore He descended and took the position of a servant. 09:19 and Philippians 2:5, 6 09:23 make it very, very clear 09:25 that God the Father and the Son are equal, 09:29 they are both God eternal, omnipotent, 09:32 omniscient, omnipresent and morally perfect. 09:36 Now, Ellen White conforms this biblical testimony 09:40 in the book "God's Amazing Grace" page 42, 09:44 we find this interesting statement from Ellen White 09:47 about the equality of the Father and the Son. 09:50 She says this, "Since the divine law 09:53 is as sacred as God himself, 09:56 only one equal with God 10:00 could make atonement for its transgression." 10:03 Notice only one equal with God 10:06 could make atonement for the transgression of law. 10:09 In the devotional book, The Faith I Live By, page 46, 10:13 Ellen White states once again 10:16 the equality of the Father and the Son. 10:19 This is what she says, 10:21 "Jesus was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent." 10:28 One further statement, 10:29 The Faith I Live By, also page 46. 10:32 This is the most powerful statement she says, 10:35 Christ was God essentially, seen as substance 10:40 or as essence in his stuff if you please. 10:43 "Christ was God essentially and in the highest sense. 10:48 He was with God from all eternity, 10:51 God over all, blessed forevermore. 10:55 The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, 10:58 existed from eternity, a distinct person, 11:03 yet one with the Father. 11:05 He was the surpassing glory of heaven. 11:08 He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, 11:11 and the adoring homage of the angels 11:15 was received by him as His right. 11:19 In other words, the angels worshipped Jesus as God 11:22 because that was his right. 11:24 Jesus Christ and the Father are equal, they are both God. 11:31 Now let's talk a little bit about the relationship 11:34 between God the Father and God the Son. 11:37 I want to read John 1:1 once again 11:40 because there is a very important prepositions 11:42 that is used in this verse. 11:45 Once again it says, "In the beginning was the Word, 11:48 and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." 11:53 Verse 2, "He was in the beginning with God." 11:57 Now, in Greek there are two main prepositions 12:01 that are translated with. 12:04 One is a preposition that is used to express 12:08 like I'm here in this same room with you, 12:11 that is not the preposition that is used here in John 1:1, 2. 12:16 The preposition that is used here is the word pros 12:21 which basically means with but moving towards. 12:26 In other words the preposition is really saying 12:29 that the God the Father and the Son were together 12:32 but they were in movement towards one another. 12:36 In other words, they had an intimate 12:37 and close relationship one with the other 12:41 even though they were two. 12:43 Now, in the book, The Faith I Live By, page 46, 12:47 Ellen White expresses the close fellowship 12:50 that existed between the Father and the Son. 12:53 Ellen White didn't know Greek but she is catching here 12:56 the nuance of what is being said in John 1:1, 2. 13:01 This is what she says, 13:02 "In speaking of His pre-existence, 13:05 Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. 13:10 He assures us that there never was a time 13:15 when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. 13:20 Notice what she says, there was never time 13:22 in which Jesus was not in closed fellowship with the eternal God. 13:28 In other words, throughout eternity 13:30 there has been this close intimate relationship 13:33 between the Father and the Son, 13:35 they have gravitated towards one another 13:38 as indicated by this preposition pros. 13:41 Now, in John 10:30, Jesus made a very interesting declaration 13:47 about His relationship with His Father. 13:49 This is a very short verse. 13:52 Here Jesus speaking to the Jews of His day said, 13:56 "I and My Father are one." 14:01 Now, do you know that, that is marriage terminology really. 14:05 You know, that in the Bible it says 14:07 that a man shall leave his father and his mother 14:09 and they are no longer two but they are what? 14:12 But they are one. 14:13 So in other words, marriage language is used 14:16 to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son, 14:19 I and My Father are one. 14:22 Ellen White, once again emphasizes 14:25 the importance of realizing this closed intimate fellowship 14:29 between the Father and the Son. 14:31 In the book Sons and Daughters of God, page 286, 14:35 Ellen White explains, "In mind, in purpose, 14:40 in character, they are one, but not in person. 14:46 In other words they are two person but they are one 14:49 in the senses that they are the same in mind, 14:52 in purpose and in character. 14:55 In the devotional book, The Upward Look, page 153, 14:59 Ellen White once again underlines 15:01 that there are two distinct individuals in fellowship. 15:04 This is what she says, "Christ is one with the Father, 15:08 but God and Christ are two distinct Personages." 15:14 And so you have this gravitation of the Father towards the Son. 15:18 The Bible describes their relationship 15:20 as two individuals being one. 15:24 In fact Jesus basically said that 15:27 He is the Father's other self. 15:30 Notice John 14: 8, 9 15:33 where Jesus is explaining 15:35 the relationship with His Father. 15:37 John 14:8, 9, ''Philip said to him, 15:41 "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 15:47 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, 15:51 and yet you have not known me, Philip? 15:54 He who has seen Me has seen the Father, 15:58 so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 16:01 Could we say that Jesus Christ 16:03 is the Father second self? Absolutely. 16:06 In fact Ellen White has a mind boggling statement 16:09 that we find in the book that I May Know Him, page 38. 16:13 Listen to this statement. 16:14 She says what speech is to thought, 16:19 so is Christ to the invisible Father. 16:23 He is the manifestation of the Father, 16:26 and is called the Word of God." 16:28 What Ellen White is saying is that the Father thinks 16:31 and Jesus speaks what the Father is thinking. 16:35 That's how intimate and close the relationship is. 16:39 Jesus is the Father's other self 16:42 He is the expression of the Father's thought, 16:45 therefore Jesus says. 16:46 "He who has seen Me has seen My Father." 16:50 He is the Father's second self. 16:52 But you know that the Bible also says that 16:55 Jesus is the radiance of the Father's glory. 16:59 Notice what we find in Hebrews 1:3 Hebrews 1:3 17:05 and I'm reading from the New International Version. 17:07 It's a translation that comes through clearer. 17:11 It says here, "The Son is the radiance of God's glory 17:17 and the exact representation of his being, 17:21 sustaining all things by his powerful word." 17:24 In other words Jesus Christ is the radiance 17:28 or the shining of the Father's glory. 17:31 That's why Jesus always lives to bring glory to His Father. 17:35 When people see His glory, 17:37 they are seeing the glory of the Father. 17:40 Now, the Bible also tells us that the Father loves His Son. 17:45 Notice John 5:20. 17:47 I want you to remember all of these details 17:49 because we are going to come back to them 17:51 before we end out study today. 17:53 John 5:20, "For the Father loves the Son 18:00 and shows him all things that He Himself does, 18:04 and he will show Him greater works than these, 18:08 that you may marvel." 18:09 Now there are many other verses and scriptures 18:12 that clearly say that the Father loves His Son. 18:16 There is this intense relationship of love 18:19 between the Father and the Son. 18:21 Now, do you know that Jesus also said that 18:24 He knew His Father and His Father knew Him? 18:28 Now, you say, well, of course they knew each other 18:31 but we need to understand that in the Bible 18:33 the word no does not necessarily mean 18:36 that you know somebody in your brain like I know all of you. 18:40 The word know expresses 18:43 an intimate sexual relationship 18:46 between a man and a woman. 18:47 Now, the Father and the Son 18:48 don't have a sexual relationship, 18:50 the idea is the intimacy that they have 18:53 which is used by the word no. 18:56 where Jesus describes 19:00 this experience of His relationship 19:04 with His Father as a knowing relationship. 19:08 It says there in John 10:15, 19:10 "As the Father knows me, even so I know the Father, 19:16 and I lay down My life for the sheep." 19:19 So the word know is used to describe 19:22 this intimate relationship 19:24 between the Father and the Son. 19:27 Now the Bible also tells us 19:29 that the Father and the Son share all things equally 19:32 just like a husband and a wife should share in a marriage. 19:36 You see between the Father and the Son 19:37 there is no prenuptial agreement so to speak. 19:40 In other words all that belongs to the Father 19:43 belongs to Jesus just like in a marriage relationship. 19:47 Notice John 16:15, where Jesus expresses this. 19:52 He says, "All things that the Father has are Mine. 19:57 Therefore I said that He will take of mine 19:59 and declare it to you." 20:02 Now in eternity past, the Lord Jesus 20:05 and the Father decided that they wanted to have children. 20:09 Now we need to understand 20:10 that they decided to have children 20:11 not by procreation but by creation 20:14 and so the Bible tells us 20:16 that the Father created through the Son. 20:19 Just like the husband and wife have children by procreation, 20:23 the Father and the Son decide to have children by creation. 20:27 You see where does the Bible say that? 20:29 Well the Bible tells us in Genesis 1 20:33 that God made man in His image, 20:36 He created them male and female. 20:40 And so would you agree with me that the Father 20:43 and the Son are equal, yes or no? Absolutely. 20:46 Do they have this intimate close relationship 20:50 that is illustrated by the marriage relationship? 20:53 Absolutely. 20:54 But now I ask the question? 20:57 Was the Son subject to His Father 21:00 even before sin came into the universe 21:04 even though He was equal to His Father? 21:07 Let's notice several verses that explain 21:09 that the Son was subject to the Father 21:13 even though the Son was equal to the Father 21:15 before sin came into the universe. 21:18 Revelation 4:11 is the first verse 21:21 that I want to read, Revelation 4:11. 21:25 This is a hymn that is being sung 21:27 by the four living creatures and the 24 elders 21:30 and they are giving praise and honoring glory 21:33 to God the Father who is sitting on the throne. 21:36 And I want you to notice what it says there 21:38 in Revelation 4:11. 21:40 "You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory 21:45 and honor and power, for You created all things." 21:51 Now you say how could that be the Father, 21:52 didn't you say that Jesus was the creator? 21:54 Well, let's finish reading the verse. 21:56 It says, "For you created all things notice 21:59 and by your will they exist and were created." 22:04 In other words things were created by the Father's will, 22:08 but who was the one who actually performed the work 22:11 of implementing the Father's will? 22:14 It was Jesus Christ. 22:16 I want you to notice also 1 Corinthians 8:6. 22:20 This is speaking about before sin. 22:22 God the Father creates through His Son, 22:25 Jesus is the instrument through whom the Father creates. 22:29 1 Corinthians 8:6, here the Apostle Paul says, 22:33 "Yet for us there is one God, 22:35 the Father of whom are all things." 22:40 See, all things are of the Father, 22:42 but then he continues saying, 22:44 "And we for him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, 22:49 through whom are all things, 22:52 and through whom we live." 22:55 Did you understand what that verse is saying? 22:57 All things are from the Father through the Son? 23:01 In other words the Son implements 23:03 the will of the Father. 23:06 Notice Colossians 1:16 has the same idea again, 23:10 Colossians 1:16 it says speaking about Jesus, 23:14 "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven 23:19 and that are on earth, visible and invisible, 23:22 whether thrones or dominions 23:24 or principalities or powers. 23:26 All things were created through Him and for Him." 23:32 So creation is by the Father through the Son, 23:36 the son implements 23:38 the Father's will in others words. 23:41 Notice Hebrews 1:1, 2 23:44 once again speaking about creation, 23:46 before sin came into the universe. 23:50 It says there in Hebrews 1:1, 2, 23:53 "God, that's God the Father, 23:55 who at various times and in various ways 23:57 spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 24:01 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son." 24:05 See in these last days 24:06 the Father has spoken to us through the Son, 24:08 and now notice, 24:10 "Whom He has appointed heir of all things." 24:13 Who has appointed the Son to be the heir? 24:16 The Father has appointed Jesus to the heir of all things 24:20 and now notice, "Through whom also He made the worlds." 24:25 So through whom did God the Father made the world? 24:28 He made them through Jesus Christ? 24:33 I would like to ask you this question, 24:34 was Jesus already Michael, 24:36 the archangel before sin came into the universe? 24:40 Was Jesus the commander of the angelic host 24:43 before sin came into the universe. 24:45 He most certainly was. 24:48 And I want you to notice Revelation 12:7-9, 24:52 Revelation 12:7-9 makes this clear. 24:55 It says, "And war broke out in heaven, 24:58 Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, 25:01 and the dragon and his angels fought 25:04 but they did not prevail, 25:06 nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 25:09 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, 25:12 called the Devil and Satan, 25:14 who deceives the whole world, 25:15 he was cast to the earth, 25:16 and his angels were cast out with him." 25:19 So Jesus was already the commander 25:21 of the heavenly host 25:23 before sin came into the universe. 25:26 In fact, we know that it was 25:28 because Lucifer did not want to keep his position, 25:33 he wanted a higher position that led to his sin. 25:37 He was not satisfied with the position 25:39 that God had given him. 25:40 He wanted to ascend to a higher position. 25:44 Now, Ellen White has some very interesting comments 25:48 about what took place when Lucifer felt these jealous, 25:52 envious feeling of Jesus Christ. 25:55 And when we read these statements, 25:57 we notice that Ellen White clearly indicates 25:59 that even before sin, 26:01 Jesus was subject to the Father 26:03 and received orders from His Father. 26:06 I want to read first of all from the book, 26:08 Lift Him Up, page 18. 26:11 Ellen White says this, "The Father then made known, 26:16 he is speaking to the angels when he gathered them together, 26:19 that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, 26:24 His Son, should be equal with Himself, 26:28 so that wherever was the presence of His Son, 26:31 it was His own presence. 26:33 The word of the Son was to be obeyed 26:36 as readily as the word of the Father." 26:39 Listen carefully to this now. 26:41 "His Son He had invested with authority 26:45 to command the heavenly host." 26:47 Who invested Jesus with the authority 26:49 to command the angels? The father did. 26:52 She continued saying, 26:53 "Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself 26:58 in the anticipated creation of the earth 27:00 and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. 27:04 His Son listen carefully, 27:06 His son would carry out His will and His purposes 27:11 but would do nothing of Himself alone. 27:14 The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him." 27:17 Was Jesus subject to His Father in eternity? 27:21 He most certainly was. 27:23 Now here is another statement. 27:24 This is a little bit longer 27:26 where Ellen White is talking about 27:28 when Lucifer felt this envious, 27:31 envious feelings within himself 27:33 and he was filled with jealousy, 27:35 God called all the angelic host together 27:37 to explain the position of Jesus. 27:39 Listen to what she says. 27:42 This is Patriarchs and Prophets, page 36. 27:45 "The King of the universe 27:47 summoned the heavenly hosts before Him, 27:50 that in their presence 27:52 He might set forth the true position of His Son 27:56 and show the relation 27:57 He sustained to all created beings. 28:00 The Son of God shared the Father's throne, 28:03 and the glory of the eternal, 28:05 self-existent One encircled both." 28:08 See they shared the throne, they were equal. 28:11 She continued saying, 28:14 "About the throne gathered the holy angels, 28:16 a vast, unnumbered throng 28:18 "ten thousand times ten thousand, 28:21 and thousands of thousands" the most exalted angels, 28:25 as ministers and subjects, 28:27 rejoicing in the light that fell upon them 28:30 from the presence of the Deity. 28:32 Before the assembled inhabitants of heaven 28:35 the King that's the Father declared that none 28:40 but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, 28:43 could fully enter into His purposes, 28:47 and to Him that is to Jesus 28:49 it was committed to execute 28:51 the mighty counsels of His will." 28:55 Whose councils did Jesus execute? 28:58 The councils of His Father. 29:01 She continues saying, 29:02 "The Son of God had wrought the Father's will 29:06 in the creation of all the hosts of heaven 29:08 and to Him, as well as to God, 29:11 their homage and allegiance were due. 29:14 Christ was still to exercise divine power, 29:17 in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants." 29:20 Now here comes the key point of the quotation, 29:23 "but in all this He would not seek power 29:27 or exaltation for Himself contrary to God's plan, 29:31 but would exalt the Father's glory 29:34 and execute His purposes of beneficence and love." 29:41 One more statement, 29:42 The Signs of the Times, October 24, 1906. 29:47 Ellen White says, "It is a mystery 29:49 that One equal listen carefully, 29:52 equal with the eternal Father should so abase Himself 29:57 as to suffer the cruel death of the cross to ransom man 30:02 and it is a mystery that God so loved the world 30:05 as to permit His Son to make this great sacrifice." 30:11 Interesting, did the Father have to permit 30:15 His Son to make the sacrifice? 30:17 Yes, was the son subject to do the Father's will 30:20 even in eternity? Absolutely. 30:24 So, is it possible for individuals to be equal 30:27 and yet have different functions 30:29 and have one be subordinate 30:31 or in subjection to the other? Absolutely. 30:34 In a perfect environment that is true. 30:38 Now, did Jesus also subject Himself 30:41 to His Father during His incarnation? 30:45 Was Jesus still equal to His Father 30:47 while He was still, while He was on this earth? 30:50 Absolutely. 30:52 Did Jesus carry on a very important ministry 30:55 while He was on this earth 30:57 as sacred and as important 31:00 as the ministry that the Father was executing 31:03 sitting on His throne in heaven? 31:04 Yes or no. Absolutely. 31:07 They were equal 31:08 and yet they had different functions 31:11 or different roles. 31:12 The father on His throne ruling the universe 31:15 and keeping things together 31:16 and Jesus Christ coming to live on this earth 31:20 and to die on the cross. 31:21 They both were involved in the ministry, 31:24 they both have the same abilities 31:26 and yet they had different roles in ministry. 31:30 Ellen White in the book Spirit of Prophecy, 31:32 volume 2, page 164 said this. 31:36 "Jesus claimed equal rights with God 31:41 in doing a work equally sacred 31:44 and of the same character 31:46 with that which engaged his Father in Heaven. 31:50 So while Jesus was on earth, 31:51 why did He claim equal rights with His Father? 31:55 Yes, He did. 31:56 Was He doing the work equally sacred? 31:59 Yes, He was. 32:00 Was He doing the identical work that the Father was doing? No. 32:05 They were fulfilling different functions or roles, 32:09 and yet they were equal, 32:12 Jesus in fact while He was on earth 32:15 always exalted His Father. 32:17 In fact Jesus in John 14:28 32:21 had something very interesting to say. 32:24 "You have heard me say to you, 32:26 'I am going away and coming back to you.' 32:29 If you loved me, you would be rejoice 32:30 because I said, 'I am going to my Father, 32:33 for My Father is greater than I." You see. 32:37 Uh, see the Father was greater than Jesus was. 32:40 Jesus was equal with His Father 32:43 but Jesus always placed others ahead, 32:47 others in first place. 32:49 Notice John 5:30, John 5:30, 32:54 Jesus lived to exalt his father 32:56 while He was incarnate 32:57 even though He was equal with His Father. 33:00 Jesus says there, "I can of Myself do nothing. 33:04 As I hear, I judge and my judgment is righteous 33:08 because I do not seek My own will, 33:10 but the will of the Father who sent Me." 33:13 Was Jesus still subject to His Father 33:15 during the entering of sin on earth 33:18 when He became incarnate. 33:20 Was He still equal with His Father? 33:22 Absolutely, but subordinate to His Father's will. 33:26 John 6:38, I could read many more statements, 33:29 I'll read one more from scripture 33:31 on this idea of Jesus fulfilling the will of His Father 33:34 during His incarnation. 33:36 John 6:38, Jesus is speaking 33:38 and He says, "For I have come down from heaven, 33:41 not to do My own will, 33:43 but the will of Him who sent Me". 33:47 In Desire of Ages, page 22 and 23, 33:51 Ellen White explains in this magnificent book 33:55 the greatest biography 33:56 I believe ever written of Christ outside the Bible. 34:00 Ellen White says, "He might have retained 34:02 the glory of heaven, and the homage of the angels. 34:06 But He chose to give back the scepter 34:09 into the Father's hands, 34:12 and to step down from the throne of the universe, 34:15 that He might bring light to the benighted, 34:18 and life to the perishing. 34:21 You see folks, Jesus did not grasp 34:24 equality with God as something to be hung on to. 34:28 Jesus did not demand His rights and His position, 34:33 Jesus came down. 34:35 Jesus came to minister, He did not claim rights. 34:38 The Bible says that He humbled Himself to minister. 34:42 This is described in Philippians 2:5-8 34:47 where the Apostle Paul says, "Let this mind be in you, 34:49 which was also in Christ Jesus, 34:52 who, being in the form of God, 34:54 we already discussed this, did not consider 34:57 equality with God as something to be grasped." 35:00 In other words, He didn't say, 35:02 I'm going to hang on to My equality to God 35:04 because I'm equal with Him. 35:05 No, He did not decide to hang on to His equality with God, 35:09 it says, "But made Himself of no reputation, 35:14 taking the form of a bondservant 35:16 and coming in the likeness of men. 35:19 And being found in appearance as a man, 35:22 He humbled himself and became obedient 35:25 to the point of death even the death of the cross." 35:28 You see, in the mind of Jesus things were not having 35:31 to do with rights and with position and with ascending 35:35 and being number one, no. 35:37 His idea was to descend to the lowest depths 35:41 in order to minister and to serve others. 35:45 You see the problem is we have our heads screwed on wrong. 35:49 We thinks that submission or subjection is a bad thing, 35:53 that the one who is subject is inferior 35:57 to the one he is subject to. 36:00 But Jesus thought that subjection is greatness, 36:04 implementing God's plan is true greatness. 36:08 In Signs of the Times, January 8, 1880, 36:11 Ellen White explains how Jesus became subject 36:15 to His Father's while He was on earth. 36:17 This is what she says, "Christ taught 36:20 that all true goodness and greatness of character, 36:25 all peace and joy in the soul, must come through perfect 36:30 and entire submission to his Father's will, 36:34 which is the highest law of duty." 36:36 Did you hear that statement. 36:38 All true goodness and greatness of character, 36:42 all peace and Joy in the soul must come through perfect 36:45 and entire submission to his Father's will, 36:48 Jesus taught that in His life. 36:50 She continues saying, "The lessons connected 36:52 with their commission, which they were to put 36:55 to a practical use, were given 36:57 to the disciples upon this occasion. 36:59 They were to carry the light of truth to the world. 37:03 In the book, The faith I live By, page 50, 37:06 she says speaking about the death of Christ. 37:08 "He who died for the sins of the world 37:11 was to remain in the tomb the allotted time. 37:15 He was in that stony prison house 37:17 as a prisoner of divine justice." 37:20 Listen carefully now, "He was responsible 37:23 to the Judge of the universe. 37:25 He was bearing the sins of the world, 37:28 and His Father only could release Him." 37:33 And you know when that angel came down from heaven and said, 37:36 oh thou Son of God, thy Father calls thee. 37:39 Jesus came out of the tomb with a life that was within Himself 37:44 but He came out when His Father gave him permission to come out, 37:48 according to the statement. 37:50 She says once again. 37:52 He was bearing the sins of the world, 37:54 and His Father only could release Him. 37:57 So was Jesus subject to His Father's will 38:00 during His ministry. Yes. 38:02 Was He subject to his Father's will in eternity past, 38:06 before sin came into the universe? 38:08 Absolutely. But how about after the ascension of Christ, 38:12 before sin is eradicated from the universe. 38:15 In other words between His ascension 38:17 and when sin comes to an end. 38:20 Is Jesus equal with the Father today? 38:23 Yes, He is. Does Jesus have the same abilities 38:26 and capacities that His Father has? Absolutely. 38:30 Are both the Father and the Son 38:32 involved in ministry? Yes, They are. 38:35 And so the issue is not equality or ability or ministry, 38:41 the issue has to do with roles or functions. 38:46 Are you with me or not? 38:47 Is it possible to have different roles or functions 38:50 and at the same time be equal? Absolutely. 38:53 Jesus is the best example of this. 38:55 You see folks, to be a subject is divine, 39:00 to want to ascend to a higher position then God 39:04 has established is demonic 39:06 because that is the spirit of Lucifer. 39:09 Is it just possible that this whole issue 39:12 of women's ordination has to do more with a desire 39:15 for position and for power? 39:18 Is it possible there is a reflection 39:20 of the experience of the Korah, whom God had called 39:25 to be a Levite but not a priest. 39:27 He said I could be a priest just as good as the Levites could be. 39:31 I have abilities like they have, 39:34 and I could perform the ministry the way that they do. 39:37 Let me ask you. 39:39 Could Korah had been a good priest do you think? 39:42 Could he had learned to be a good priest? 39:43 I think so. Do you think he would had the ability? 39:47 Absolutely. But where was the problem? 39:50 The problem is God had not called him 39:52 to that specific function. 39:55 Was he equal to Erin or was he inferior to Erin? 39:59 No, he was equal, but he had a different work, 40:02 he had a different function. 40:07 Now, let's read John 17:4. 40:09 This is speaking about after the ascension of Christ. 40:13 Actually Jesus is praying in the Garden of Gethsemane 40:16 and notice what he says in His prayer to His Father. 40:19 "And now, O Father, glorify Me." 40:24 Who is He asking to glorify Him? 40:26 His father, "O now, and now O father, 40:30 glorify Me together with yourself, 40:33 with the glory which I had with you before the world was." 40:37 He is asking the Father to glorify Him 40:39 and that happens upon His ascension. 40:43 I want you to notice also Acts 2:33. 40:47 You know, when Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit 40:49 upon the apostles on the day of Pentecost, 40:51 actually the Father gave Him the gift 40:54 and then He gave it to the disciples. 40:57 Notice what it says in Acts 2:33 speaking about Christ it says, " 41:01 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, 41:04 and having received from the Father 41:06 the promise of the Holy Spirit." 41:08 Who did He receive the Holy Spirit from? 41:11 From the Father, having received from the Father, 41:14 the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out 41:16 this which you now see and hear." 41:19 The Father gave Him the promise of the spirit. 41:22 The Father glorified Him when He ascended to heaven. 41:26 I want you to notice 2 Corinthians 11:3. 41:30 This is a very important verse, that tells us that the Father 41:35 is the head of Christ. 41:37 Now notice what we find here, 41:39 "But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, 41:45 the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." 41:52 So who is the head of Christ? God. 41:55 Does Jesus have a problem with that? No. 41:59 So let me ask you this. 42:01 Would it be a problem for man to realize 42:03 that Christ is his head? No. 42:06 Would it be a problem for woman to recognize 42:09 that man is her head? No. 42:11 If it's not a problem for man to recognize Christ 42:14 as his head and that Christ recognizes God as His head, 42:19 there shouldn't be any problem with woman recognizing 42:22 that the man is her head? Correct. 42:25 Now, I want you to notice, Mathew 28:18. 42:29 Once again here Jesus is speaking to His disciples 42:32 about the great commission 42:34 and there is a very important expression 42:36 that we many times don't focus on. 42:38 It says there, "And Jesus came and spoke to them," 42:41 that is to His disciples saying, listen now carefully, 42:45 "All authority what does it say next, 42:50 has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." 42:55 Did Jesus now, He gained the victory, 42:57 He come to His Father, says, now I take my authority. 43:00 No. Even after His resurrection, authority is given to Him 43:06 in heaven and in earth. 43:07 Who gives it to Him? His Father. 43:10 Notice Philippians 2:9-11. 43:13 We read the previous verses where it says that Jesus 43:16 humbled Himself to the point of dying on the cross. 43:20 Now notice what happens after Jesus dies 43:22 and he ascends to heaven. 43:23 Philippians 2:9-11, it says, 43:26 "Therefore God also has highly exalted Him." 43:31 Who exalted Jesus after He came to this earth? God. 43:34 "Therefore God has highly exalted him and given Him 43:38 the name that is above every name." 43:41 Who gave Jesus the name? 43:42 The Father, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, 43:47 of those in heaven and of those on earth 43:50 and of those under the earth, and that every tongue 43:53 should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, 43:56 to the glory of God the Father." 43:59 Even after Jesus ascends to heaven, 44:02 His father gives Him authority, His Father glorifies to Him, 44:07 His Father gives Him the name 44:10 and its all for the glory of God, the Father. 44:14 They are still equal that the Father, 44:17 a Son is subject to the will of the Father. 44:23 Now what did Jesus exemplify in His teaching? 44:27 Jesus as I mentioned before did not demand His rights. 44:32 He did not say just as equity and mercy requires 44:38 that I be installed in an equal position with my Father. 44:43 No, because the focus of Jesus was not on position. 44:46 The focus of Jesus was on ministry. 44:49 You see, Jesus taught the last shall be first, 44:53 and the first shall be last. 44:55 He taught he who exalts himself will be humbled 44:58 and he who humbles himself will be exalted. 45:01 The Bible tells us that Jesus emptied Himself 45:05 dying the death of the cross. 45:08 Is it just possible that they struggled for rights and mercy 45:12 and just as an equity in the women's ordination issue 45:16 is really a reflection of Lucifer's desire 45:20 to occupy a position for which God had not called him. 45:25 Now I would like to ask this question. 45:28 Is Jesus going to be subject to His Father 45:32 even after sin is eradicated from the universe? 45:36 Go with me to 1 Corinthians 15:24, 28. 45:42 1 Corinthians 15:24, 28. There is no doubt 45:47 that throughout eternity Jesus will be equal with His Father 45:51 but He will be subject to His Father. 45:54 So is subjection a bad thing? 45:56 Does it have anything to do with sin? 45:58 No, I'm not talking about the husband trampling 46:01 on the wife, I'm talking about legitimate authority, 46:04 legitimate relationship where the husband loves the wife 46:08 and the wife in response is subject to her husband. 46:11 Notice 1 Corinthians 15:24. 46:14 "Then comes the end, when he delivers 46:19 the kingdom to God the Father." 46:20 What is Jesus is going to do at the end? 46:22 "He is going to deliver the kingdom to God, 46:25 the Father, when he puts an end to all the rule 46:28 and all authority and power. 46:29 For he must reign till he has put 46:32 all his enemies under His feet. 46:34 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 46:37 For "He has put all things under his feet."' 46:40 Now God has put everything under the feet of Jesus, 46:43 but now listen carefully to what it continues saying. 46:45 "But when he says "all things are put under Him, 46:49 it is evident that He who put all things 46:52 under Him is excepted." 46:56 Are you understanding what Paul is saying? 46:58 All things are under the feet of Jesus 47:00 with the exception of whom? The Father. 47:06 Then in verse 28 it says, "Now when all things 47:09 are made subject to Him, that is to Jesus, 47:12 then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him 47:18 who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 47:23 Is the Son going to subject Himself 47:25 to His Father in eternity? 47:27 Absolutely, the Bible teaches that. 47:32 So in conclusion the Father and the Son are equal 47:37 but the Son is subordinate to His Father's authority. 47:42 Jesus does not demand equal rights but rather is willing 47:47 to fulfill the rule His father has established for Him. 47:51 It is easy for Jesus to be subject to His Fathers will 47:55 because He knows that His Father loves Him. 47:58 The relationship between the Father, 48:00 the Son and the Holy Spirit 48:02 is the model for human relationships. 48:06 Does Jesus complain because He had to die? 48:10 Does the Holy Spirit complain because he has to carry forward 48:14 the work of Jesus and receive orders from Jesus? 48:17 Of course not because their focus is not on position, 48:21 their focus is on ministry, they do not focus 48:24 on authority, position or power. 48:28 In other words the relationship between the Father and the Son 48:31 is the divine model of the relationship 48:34 that should exist between husbands and wives. 48:36 Let's pursue that in the few minutes 48:38 that we have left. 48:40 Where Adam and Eve created equal? 48:43 Yes, they were. The Bible uses the word man 48:47 to describe both of them, the word the generic word man. 48:50 Both were created in the image of God. 48:52 Both were given dominion over creation. 48:55 Both received the blessing of God. 48:58 Both of them were commanded to be fruitful and multiply. 49:01 Did Adam and Eve have an intimate and close relationship? 49:06 Was there a oneness between them? Yes. 49:09 Now we remember when we studied about the Father and the Son. 49:12 The Bible tells us that when Jesus created 49:15 Adam and Eve and married them, they were no longer 49:18 two but they were what? 49:20 But they were one like Jesus and the Fathers are one. 49:23 Was Eve Adam's second self, Notice Adventist Home, page 25, 49:29 Ellen White says, "A part of man, 49:32 bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh, 49:35 she was his second self." 49:38 What was Eve? His second self, showing the close union 49:44 and the affectionate attachment 49:47 that should exist in this relation." 49:50 Do you remember that Jesus is the glory of the Father. 49:53 Do you the Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:7, 49:57 he says the woman is the glory of man. 50:02 Now women might not like that but that's what the Bible says 50:05 that the woman is the glory of man. 50:07 Does the Bible command the husband to love the wife 50:11 like the Father loved Jesus? 50:13 Absolutely. Husbands love your wives as Christ 50:17 loved the church, but then the Apostle Paul 50:19 says in-that's Ephesians 5:25. 50:22 In verse 22 he says, "Wives be subject 50:25 on to your own husbands." 50:26 See you have that relationship. 50:28 Are the husband and the wife supposed 50:31 to share everything equally? Absolutely. 50:35 Are husband and wife to know each other intimately? 50:38 Absolutely. Genesis 4:1 and also 25 speak 50:45 of that intimate relationship between Adam and Eve 50:48 as being as knowing each other. 50:51 Ellen White says in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 46 50:54 "God Himself gave Adam a companion. 50:58 He provided "an help meet for him" 51:00 a helper corresponding to him one who was fitted 51:04 to be his companion, and who could be one 51:07 with him in love and sympathy. 51:09 Eve was created from a rib taken from the side of Adam, 51:13 signifying that she was not to control him as the head, 51:16 nor to be trampled under his feet as an inferior, 51:20 but to stand by his side as an equal, 51:23 to stand by his side as a what? 51:25 As an equal, to be loved and protected by him. 51:33 So that means that man and woman have 51:35 the very same roles and functions 51:38 as husband and wife? 51:40 True of false. False. 51:43 Can the man be the mother? 51:46 Can the woman be the father? Absolutely not. 51:50 You see God has made man and woman physiologically 51:55 and psychologically adopted to fulfill different roles 51:59 within the marriage relationship. 52:01 You see the man does not seize to be a father and the woman, 52:05 the mother as a result of the death of Jesus on the cross. 52:08 It's true that the Apostle Paul says in Galatians 3:28 52:12 that there is no longer male nor female 52:14 but all you have to do is look to know that's not talking about 52:17 the biological and psychological differences of men and women. 52:20 It's talking about equal status before God. 52:23 It's talking about, about equal in value before God. 52:26 It's speaking about the fact that men and women 52:29 have equal access to salvation but it's not saying 52:32 that they fulfill identical roles. 52:36 One scholar stated. 52:38 Man and woman, this is an Adventist scholar. 52:40 Man and woman are completely equal without any submission 52:46 or subordination of one to the other, 52:48 even though they were created with sexual differentiation. 52:53 Now, that's not biblical, 52:55 and it does not fit the divine model. 52:59 I want to read from Ephesians 5:22-24 53:04 where the Apostle Paul, this is after the cross, 53:07 many years after the cross. 53:09 Is it still God's plan that wives submit 53:11 to their husbands and husbands love their wives? 53:13 Absolutely. Here the Apostle Paul says, 53:15 "Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 53:19 For the husband is the head of the wife 53:22 as also Christ is the head of the church, 53:25 and he is the Savior of the body. 53:27 Therefore, just as church is subject to Christ, 53:30 so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. 53:34 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved 53:38 the church and gave Himself for her." 53:41 Ellen White concurs in the book 53:44 Counsels to the Church, pages 145 and 146. 53:47 She says, "The Lord has constituted 53:50 the husband the head of the wife to be her protector, 53:53 he is the house-band of the family, 53:56 binding the members together, even as Christ 54:00 is the head of the church 54:01 and the Savior of the mystical body." 54:04 And somebody might say okay, pastor you presented 54:06 enough evidence that truly in the marriage relationship, 54:10 they are equal but the wife should be subject to the husband 54:14 and the husband should love his wife. 54:16 But how do you know that translates into the church 54:20 where the man should be the head of the church 54:22 and woman should be subject to the authority of the man. 54:27 Allow me to read you just a couple of statements 54:29 from the Sprit of Prophecy as we close. 54:32 This statement is volume 5 of the Testimonies, page 618. 54:37 Ellen White says, notice the connection 54:38 between the headship of the man in the home 54:42 and the idea that the head in the church should also be male. 54:46 The family of the once that jested 54:49 for office should be considered, 54:52 so when somebody is elected for office, 54:55 should their family be considered? 54:56 Absolutely. "The family of the one suggested 54:59 for office should be considered. 55:00 Are they in subjection?" 55:02 Now notice. "Can the man rule his house, 55:08 his own house with honor? 55:10 What character have his children? 55:13 Will they do honor to the father's influence? 55:16 If he has no tact, wisdom, or power of godliness 55:20 at home in managing his own family, 55:23 it is safe to conclude that the same defects 55:27 will be carried into the church, and the same unsanctified 55:31 management will be seen there. 55:33 It will be far better to criticize the man before 55:37 he is put into office than afterward, 55:39 better to pray and counsel before taking the decisive step 55:43 than to labor to correct 55:44 the consequences of a wrong move." 55:47 Did you notice a number of times that the male, 55:50 a pronoun is used in this passage 55:52 and the word father is used? 55:55 The man has to be a good ruler in his house, 55:57 so that he can be a good ruler and elder in the church. 56:00 Final statement, "He who is engaged in the work 56:02 of the gospel ministry must be faithful in his family life. 56:06 It is as essential that as a father he should improve 56:11 the talents God has given him 56:13 for the purpose of making the home 56:15 a symbol of the heavenly family, 56:17 as that in the work of the ministry, 56:20 he should make use of his God 56:22 given powers to win souls for the church. 56:25 As the priest in the home, and as the ambassador of Christ 56:29 in the church, he should exemplify 56:32 in his life the character of Christ. 56:35 He must be faithful in watching for souls 56:37 as one that must give an account. 56:39 In his service there must be seen 56:42 no carelessness and inattentive work. 56:44 God will not serve with the sins of men who have not a clear 56:49 sense of the sacred responsibility involved 56:52 in accepting a position as pastor of a church. 56:55 He who fails to be a faithful, discerning shepherd in the home, 56:59 will surely fail of being a faithful shepherd 57:03 of the flock of God in the church. 57:07 Is that clear. 57:08 The same requisites for the home 57:10 apply as well to the church. |
Revised 2014-12-17