Let's pray, father in heaven,
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we come before Your thrown today
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to ask as we have done before
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for the presence
of your Holy Spirit
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through the
ministry of Your angels
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as we open Your holy word.
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Help us to have open minds
and hearts to receive Your word.
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Remove from us any preconceived
ideas that we might have
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that we might be able to hear
Your voice and Your voice only.
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And we thank you for
the privilege of prayer
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and for hearing us for we
ask it in Jesus' name, amen.
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The title of our study today is
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"Subordinate but
Equal, the divine model."
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And I would like to begin
by formulating two questions
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that will set the stage for
what we are going to discuss.
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Question number one is this.
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Is it possible for two persons
to be ontologically equal
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that as equal as beings
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to have the same
abilities and capacities
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and yet to fulfill
different roles in ministry?
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Once again, very
important question.
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Is it possible for two
persons to be equal as beings
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and yet to have the
same abilities and capacities
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and have
different roles in ministry?
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The second question that
I would like to ask is this.
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Is it possible for two people
to be ontologically equal,
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that means equal as beings
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and yet functionally have one
be in subjection to the other?
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In other words, is it possible
for two beings to be equal
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and yet have one of those
beings be subject to the other?
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Now, there are two women
that have written a book,
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the name of the book
is "All we're Meant to Be,
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a Biblical Approach
to Women's Liberation,"
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page 110, where
the two authors state
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that it is absolutely impossible
for two individuals to be equal
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and yet have one be
subordinate to another.
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I would like to read a quotation
from this book on page 110
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where they state the following.
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Many Christians
thus speak of a wives
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being equal to
herhusband in personhood,
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but subordinate in function.
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However, this is
just playing word games
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and is a contradiction in terms.
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Equality and subordination
are contradictions.
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In other words,
what they are saying
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is that it's impossible to
have two beings that are equal
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and yet have one be
subordinate to the other.
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Now in recent
years some Bible scholars
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among them some
Seventh-day Adventist
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have attempted to prove
that in God's original plan,
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there was never the
idea of submission of Eve
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to the headship of
Adam but rather God intended
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that they be absolutely
equal not only in status
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but also in their
roles and in their functions.
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What these scholars are saying
is that only after the fall,
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did God say that the wife should
subject herself to her husband,
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but when Jesus
died on the cross,
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this subjection of the
wife to the husband was removed
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and once again it was
returned to the original status.
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In short what these
scholars are saying is that
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although Adam and Eve were
created biologically different,
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Adam was not given the
headship role in marriage
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until the
period between the fall
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and the cross of Christ.
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In the view of these scholars,
submission on the part of wives
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is a less than ideal arrangement
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which was removed at the cross
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and now there is
neither male nor female
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in the sense that
husbands and wives
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not only are equal
in status and in value,
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but they also
have identical roles.
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Now in this presentation today,
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I would like us to
take a look at this issue
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from a much broader perspective
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than the relationship
between husbands and wives.
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I would like us to
take a look at this issue
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from a cosmic perspective.
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And once again as we
examine this cosmic perspective,
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we are going to
answer the two questions
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that we began our study with.
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And I review those two questions
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because they are
very, very important.
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Question number one is this.
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Is it possible for
two persons to be equal
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to be involved in ministry,
to possess the same abilities
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and yet to have
different roles or functions?
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The second question is.
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Is it possible for two
persons to be equal as beings
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and yet have
one be in submission
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or in subjection to the other?
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In our study today we
are going to take a look
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at the most
intimate relationship
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that exists in the universe,
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the relationship between
God the father and God the son.
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And we are going to take this
as a model of the relationship
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that should exist
between husbands and wives.
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In our study we
will see very clearly
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that the equality of beings
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as it relates to
the Father and Son,
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there is no doubt that
they are absolutely equal
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and yet we are
going to find that
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Jesus Christ has
subjected Himself to His Father,
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not only after sin but before
sin came into the universe
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and Jesus will subject Himself
to the authority of His Father,
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even when sin is finally
eradicated from the universe.
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In other words even though
the Father and the Son are equal
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they have different functions
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and even in eternity
past and in eternity future,
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the Son has been
subject to His Father
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and will be subject
to His Father for ever.
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Now its agreed
virtually by all theologians
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in the Seventh-day
Adventist Church as well as
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outside the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
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that God the
Father and Jesus Christ
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are ontologically equal,
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that means that
they are equal as beings.
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They agree that
Father and Son are eternal.
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Each is omnipotent, omniscient,
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omnipresent and morally perfect.
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And they believe this
because the Bible teaches it.
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Notice John 1:1 where we
find this idea clearly express
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that the Father and the Son
are equal, they are both God.
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This very well known verse says,
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"In the beginning was the
Word, and the Word was with God,
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and the Word was
God." Not a God but God.
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In other words the Father
and the Son are equally God,
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from eternity, eternity
past and eternity future.
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So John 1:1 clearly tells
us that the Father and the Son
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are both God, they are equal.
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There is another
text in the New Testament
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and there are others, we
are only going to take a look
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at two of them
that expresses clearly
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the equality of
the Father and the Son.
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Philippians 2:5 and
6, Philippians 2:5 and 6
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Here the Apostle Paul says this,
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"Have this mind
among yourselves,
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which is yours in Christ Jesus,
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who, though he was
in the form of God,
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speaking of Christ, though
he was in the form of God,
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did not count equality with
God as a thing to be grasped."
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Now, somebody might wonder about
the expression form of God.
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Really the word
form that is used there
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is the Greek word
morphe and it refers not to--
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an outward form it
refers to the substance
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or the stuff
that God is made of.
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In other words Jesus Christ
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is made of the same
stuff as God the Father.
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And you will notice here that
before Jesus became incarnate,
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He was equal with God but
He did not consider equality
00:09:09.20\00:09:13.20
with God as
something to be grasped
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and therefore He descended and
took the position of a servant.
00:09:15.65\00:09:19.70
and Philippians 2:5, 6
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make it very, very clear
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that God the Father
and the Son are equal,
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they are both God
eternal, omnipotent,
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omniscient,
omnipresent and morally perfect.
00:09:32.26\00:09:36.72
Now, Ellen White
conforms this biblical testimony
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in the book "God's
Amazing Grace" page 42,
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we find this interesting
statement from Ellen White
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about the equality of
the Father and the Son.
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She says this,
"Since the divine law
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is as sacred as God himself,
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only one equal with God
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could make atonement
for its transgression."
00:10:00.40\00:10:03.95
Notice only one equal with God
00:10:03.98\00:10:06.47
could make atonement for
the transgression of law.
00:10:06.50\00:10:09.81
In the devotional book,
The Faith I Live By, page 46,
00:10:09.84\00:10:13.67
Ellen White states once again
00:10:13.70\00:10:16.36
the equality of
the Father and the Son.
00:10:16.39\00:10:19.42
This is what she says,
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"Jesus was equal with
God, infinite and omnipotent."
00:10:21.09\00:10:28.30
One further statement,
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The Faith I Live
By, also page 46.
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This is the most
powerful statement she says,
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Christ was God
essentially, seen as substance
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or as essence in
his stuff if you please.
00:10:40.14\00:10:43.27
"Christ was God essentially
and in the highest sense.
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He was with God
from all eternity,
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God over all,
blessed forevermore.
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The Lord Jesus
Christ, the divine Son of God,
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existed from
eternity, a distinct person,
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yet one with the Father.
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He was the
surpassing glory of heaven.
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He was the commander of
the heavenly intelligences,
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and the adoring
homage of the angels
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was received by
him as His right.
00:11:15.15\00:11:19.79
In other words, the
angels worshipped Jesus as God
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because that was his right.
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Jesus Christ and the Father
are equal, they are both God.
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Now let's talk a little
bit about the relationship
00:11:31.08\00:11:34.08
between God the
Father and God the Son.
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I want to read
John 1:1 once again
00:11:37.17\00:11:40.27
because there is a
very important prepositions
00:11:40.30\00:11:42.64
that is used in this verse.
00:11:42.67\00:11:45.45
Once again it says, "In
the beginning was the Word,
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and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God."
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Verse 2, "He was in
the beginning with God."
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Now, in Greek there
are two main prepositions
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that are translated with.
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One is a preposition
that is used to express
00:12:04.07\00:12:08.26
like I'm here in
this same room with you,
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that is not the preposition that
is used here in John 1:1, 2.
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The preposition that is
used here is the word pros
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which basically means
with but moving towards.
00:12:21.75\00:12:26.38
In other words the
preposition is really saying
00:12:26.41\00:12:29.72
that the God the Father
and the Son were together
00:12:29.75\00:12:32.77
but they were in
movement towards one another.
00:12:32.80\00:12:36.00
In other words,
they had an intimate
00:12:36.03\00:12:37.75
and close
relationship one with the other
00:12:37.78\00:12:41.12
even though they were two.
00:12:41.15\00:12:43.32
Now, in the book, The
Faith I Live By, page 46,
00:12:43.35\00:12:46.98
Ellen White
expresses the close fellowship
00:12:47.01\00:12:50.48
that existed between
the Father and the Son.
00:12:50.51\00:12:53.31
Ellen White didn't know
Greek but she is catching here
00:12:53.34\00:12:56.72
the nuance of what is
being said in John 1:1, 2.
00:12:56.75\00:13:01.29
This is what she says,
00:13:01.32\00:13:02.60
"In speaking of
His pre-existence,
00:13:02.63\00:13:05.72
Christ carries the mind
back through dateless ages.
00:13:05.75\00:13:10.19
He assures us that
there never was a time
00:13:10.22\00:13:15.09
when He was not in close
fellowship with the eternal God.
00:13:15.12\00:13:20.36
Notice what she
says, there was never time
00:13:20.39\00:13:22.52
in which Jesus was not in closed
fellowship with the eternal God.
00:13:22.55\00:13:28.80
In other words,
throughout eternity
00:13:28.83\00:13:30.61
there has been this
close intimate relationship
00:13:30.64\00:13:33.86
between the Father and the Son,
00:13:33.89\00:13:35.29
they have
gravitated towards one another
00:13:35.32\00:13:38.09
as indicated by
this preposition pros.
00:13:38.12\00:13:41.82
Now, in John 10:30, Jesus made
a very interesting declaration
00:13:41.85\00:13:47.11
about His
relationship with His Father.
00:13:47.14\00:13:49.46
This is a very short verse.
00:13:49.49\00:13:52.10
Here Jesus speaking to
the Jews of His day said,
00:13:52.13\00:13:56.56
"I and My Father are one."
00:13:56.59\00:14:01.27
Now, do you know that, that
is marriage terminology really.
00:14:01.30\00:14:05.34
You know, that
in the Bible it says
00:14:05.37\00:14:06.98
that a man shall leave
his father and his mother
00:14:07.01\00:14:09.52
and they are no
longer two but they are what?
00:14:09.55\00:14:12.03
But they are one.
00:14:12.06\00:14:13.18
So in other words,
marriage language is used
00:14:13.21\00:14:16.23
to describe the relationship
between the Father and the Son,
00:14:16.26\00:14:19.40
I and My Father are one.
00:14:19.43\00:14:22.59
Ellen White,
once again emphasizes
00:14:22.62\00:14:25.88
the importance of realizing
this closed intimate fellowship
00:14:25.91\00:14:29.95
between the Father and the Son.
00:14:29.98\00:14:31.88
In the book Sons and
Daughters of God, page 286,
00:14:31.91\00:14:35.90
Ellen White
explains, "In mind, in purpose,
00:14:35.93\00:14:40.21
in character, they are
one, but not in person.
00:14:40.24\00:14:46.21
In other words they are
two person but they are one
00:14:46.24\00:14:49.64
in the senses that
they are the same in mind,
00:14:49.67\00:14:52.86
in purpose and in character.
00:14:52.89\00:14:55.12
In the devotional book,
The Upward Look, page 153,
00:14:55.24\00:14:59.62
Ellen White
once again underlines
00:14:59.65\00:15:01.35
that there are two distinct
individuals in fellowship.
00:15:01.38\00:15:04.13
This is what she says,
"Christ is one with the Father,
00:15:04.16\00:15:08.15
but God and Christ are
two distinct Personages."
00:15:08.18\00:15:14.02
And so you have this gravitation
of the Father towards the Son.
00:15:14.05\00:15:18.45
The Bible
describes their relationship
00:15:18.48\00:15:20.56
as two individuals being one.
00:15:20.59\00:15:24.20
In fact Jesus
basically said that
00:15:24.23\00:15:27.85
He is the Father's other self.
00:15:27.88\00:15:30.78
Notice John 14: 8, 9
00:15:30.81\00:15:33.69
where Jesus is explaining
00:15:33.72\00:15:35.21
the
relationship with His Father.
00:15:35.24\00:15:37.44
John 14:8, 9,
''Philip said to him,
00:15:37.47\00:15:41.83
"Lord, show us the Father,
and it is sufficient for us."
00:15:41.86\00:15:47.11
Jesus said to him,
"Have I been with you so long,
00:15:47.14\00:15:51.09
and yet you have
not known me, Philip?
00:15:51.12\00:15:54.25
He who has seen Me
has seen the Father,
00:15:54.28\00:15:58.19
so how can you say,
'Show us the Father'?
00:15:58.22\00:16:01.46
Could we say that Jesus Christ
00:16:01.49\00:16:03.04
is the Father
second self? Absolutely.
00:16:03.07\00:16:06.54
In fact Ellen White has
a mind boggling statement
00:16:06.57\00:16:09.67
that we find in the book
that I May Know Him, page 38.
00:16:09.70\00:16:13.66
Listen to this statement.
00:16:13.69\00:16:14.95
She says what
speech is to thought,
00:16:14.98\00:16:19.61
so is Christ to
the invisible Father.
00:16:19.64\00:16:23.35
He is the
manifestation of the Father,
00:16:23.38\00:16:26.20
and is called the Word of God."
00:16:26.23\00:16:28.42
What Ellen White is
saying is that the Father thinks
00:16:28.45\00:16:31.61
and Jesus speaks what
the Father is thinking.
00:16:31.64\00:16:35.09
That's how intimate and
close the relationship is.
00:16:35.12\00:16:39.72
Jesus is the Father's other self
00:16:39.75\00:16:42.25
He is the expression
of the Father's thought,
00:16:42.28\00:16:45.12
therefore Jesus says.
00:16:45.15\00:16:46.61
"He who has seen Me
has seen My Father."
00:16:46.64\00:16:50.18
He is the Father's second self.
00:16:50.21\00:16:52.87
But you know that
the Bible also says that
00:16:52.90\00:16:55.29
Jesus is the radiance
of the Father's glory.
00:16:55.32\00:16:59.00
Notice what we find in
Hebrews 1:3 Hebrews 1:3
00:16:59.03\00:17:05.56
and I'm reading from the
New International Version.
00:17:05.59\00:17:07.94
It's a translation
that comes through clearer.
00:17:07.97\00:17:11.25
It says here, "The Son is
the radiance of God's glory
00:17:11.28\00:17:17.44
and the exact
representation of his being,
00:17:17.47\00:17:21.67
sustaining all things
by his powerful word."
00:17:21.70\00:17:24.67
In other words Jesus
Christ is the radiance
00:17:24.70\00:17:28.28
or the shining of
the Father's glory.
00:17:28.31\00:17:31.31
That's why Jesus always lives
to bring glory to His Father.
00:17:31.34\00:17:35.06
When people see His glory,
00:17:35.09\00:17:37.12
they are seeing the
glory of the Father.
00:17:37.15\00:17:40.23
Now, the Bible also tells us
that the Father loves His Son.
00:17:40.26\00:17:45.25
Notice John 5:20.
00:17:45.28\00:17:47.92
I want you to
remember all of these details
00:17:47.95\00:17:49.77
because we are
going to come back to them
00:17:49.80\00:17:51.60
before we end out study today.
00:17:51.63\00:17:53.75
John 5:20, "For the
Father loves the Son
00:17:53.78\00:18:00.69
and shows him all
things that He Himself does,
00:18:00.72\00:18:04.60
and he will show Him
greater works than these,
00:18:04.63\00:18:08.34
that you may marvel."
00:18:08.37\00:18:09.68
Now there are many
other verses and scriptures
00:18:09.71\00:18:12.11
that clearly say that
the Father loves His Son.
00:18:12.14\00:18:16.13
There is this
intense relationship of love
00:18:16.16\00:18:19.14
between the Father and the Son.
00:18:19.17\00:18:21.78
Now, do you know
that Jesus also said that
00:18:21.81\00:18:24.04
He knew His Father
and His Father knew Him?
00:18:24.07\00:18:28.31
Now, you say, well, of
course they knew each other
00:18:28.34\00:18:31.14
but we need to
understand that in the Bible
00:18:31.17\00:18:33.08
the word no does
not necessarily mean
00:18:33.11\00:18:36.78
that you know somebody in your
brain like I know all of you.
00:18:36.81\00:18:40.75
The word know expresses
00:18:40.78\00:18:43.79
an intimate sexual relationship
00:18:43.82\00:18:46.11
between a man and a woman.
00:18:46.14\00:18:47.29
Now, the Father and the Son
00:18:47.32\00:18:48.65
don't have a
sexual relationship,
00:18:48.68\00:18:50.10
the idea is the
intimacy that they have
00:18:50.13\00:18:53.29
which is used by the word no.
00:18:53.32\00:18:56.92
where Jesus describes
00:18:56.95\00:19:00.80
this experience
of His relationship
00:19:00.83\00:19:04.20
with His Father as a
knowing relationship.
00:19:04.23\00:19:08.60
It says there in John 10:15,
00:19:08.63\00:19:10.74
"As the Father knows me,
even so I know the Father,
00:19:10.77\00:19:16.38
and I lay down My
life for the sheep."
00:19:16.41\00:19:19.09
So the word know
is used to describe
00:19:19.12\00:19:22.45
this intimate relationship
00:19:22.48\00:19:24.44
between the Father and the Son.
00:19:24.47\00:19:27.08
Now the Bible also tells us
00:19:27.11\00:19:28.98
that the Father and the
Son share all things equally
00:19:29.01\00:19:32.75
just like a husband and a
wife should share in a marriage.
00:19:32.78\00:19:36.31
You see between
the Father and the Son
00:19:36.34\00:19:37.84
there is no prenuptial
agreement so to speak.
00:19:37.87\00:19:40.93
In other words all
that belongs to the Father
00:19:40.96\00:19:43.38
belongs to Jesus just like
in a marriage relationship.
00:19:43.41\00:19:47.20
Notice John 16:15,
where Jesus expresses this.
00:19:47.23\00:19:52.07
He says, "All things
that the Father has are Mine.
00:19:52.10\00:19:57.00
Therefore I said
that He will take of mine
00:19:57.03\00:19:59.66
and declare it to you."
00:19:59.69\00:20:02.10
Now in eternity
past, the Lord Jesus
00:20:02.13\00:20:05.96
and the Father decided that
they wanted to have children.
00:20:05.99\00:20:09.05
Now we need to understand
00:20:09.08\00:20:10.11
that they
decided to have children
00:20:10.14\00:20:11.51
not by
procreation but by creation
00:20:11.54\00:20:14.60
and so the Bible tells us
00:20:14.63\00:20:16.11
that the Father
created through the Son.
00:20:16.14\00:20:18.98
Just like the husband and wife
have children by procreation,
00:20:19.01\00:20:23.12
the Father and the Son decide
to have children by creation.
00:20:23.15\00:20:27.34
You see where does
the Bible say that?
00:20:27.37\00:20:29.02
Well the Bible
tells us in Genesis 1
00:20:29.05\00:20:33.38
that God made man in His image,
00:20:33.41\00:20:36.96
He created them male and female.
00:20:36.99\00:20:40.65
And so would you agree
with me that the Father
00:20:40.68\00:20:43.18
and the Son are
equal, yes or no? Absolutely.
00:20:43.21\00:20:46.89
Do they have this
intimate close relationship
00:20:46.92\00:20:49.99
that is illustrated by
the marriage relationship?
00:20:50.02\00:20:53.35
Absolutely.
00:20:53.38\00:20:54.64
But now I ask the question?
00:20:54.67\00:20:57.33
Was the Son
subject to His Father
00:20:57.36\00:21:00.83
even before sin
came into the universe
00:21:00.86\00:21:03.99
even though He was
equal to His Father?
00:21:04.02\00:21:06.99
Let's notice
several verses that explain
00:21:07.02\00:21:09.67
that the Son was
subject to the Father
00:21:09.70\00:21:13.02
even though the Son
was equal to the Father
00:21:13.05\00:21:15.74
before sin came
into the universe.
00:21:15.77\00:21:18.28
Revelation 4:11
is the first verse
00:21:18.31\00:21:21.61
that I want to
read, Revelation 4:11.
00:21:21.64\00:21:25.38
This is a hymn
that is being sung
00:21:25.41\00:21:27.70
by the four living
creatures and the 24 elders
00:21:27.73\00:21:30.74
and they are giving
praise and honoring glory
00:21:30.77\00:21:33.34
to God the Father who
is sitting on the throne.
00:21:33.37\00:21:36.19
And I want you to
notice what it says there
00:21:36.22\00:21:38.16
in Revelation 4:11.
00:21:38.19\00:21:40.95
"You are worthy, O
Lord, to receive glory
00:21:40.98\00:21:45.74
and honor and power,
for You created all things."
00:21:45.77\00:21:51.37
Now you say how
could that be the Father,
00:21:51.40\00:21:52.86
didn't you say that
Jesus was the creator?
00:21:52.89\00:21:54.77
Well, let's
finish reading the verse.
00:21:54.80\00:21:56.66
It says, "For you
created all things notice
00:21:56.69\00:21:59.90
and by your will they
exist and were created."
00:21:59.93\00:22:04.40
In other words things were
created by the Father's will,
00:22:04.43\00:22:08.39
but who was the one who
actually performed the work
00:22:08.42\00:22:11.47
of implementing
the Father's will?
00:22:11.50\00:22:14.24
It was Jesus Christ.
00:22:14.27\00:22:16.49
I want you to notice
also 1 Corinthians 8:6.
00:22:16.52\00:22:20.26
This is speaking
about before sin.
00:22:20.29\00:22:22.57
God the Father
creates through His Son,
00:22:22.60\00:22:25.31
Jesus is the instrument
through whom the Father creates.
00:22:25.34\00:22:29.04
1 Corinthians 8:6,
here the Apostle Paul says,
00:22:29.07\00:22:33.44
"Yet for us there is one God,
00:22:33.47\00:22:35.73
the Father of
whom are all things."
00:22:35.76\00:22:40.02
See, all things
are of the Father,
00:22:40.05\00:22:42.41
but then he continues saying,
00:22:42.44\00:22:44.44
"And we for him, and
one Lord Jesus Christ,
00:22:44.47\00:22:49.84
through whom are all things,
00:22:49.87\00:22:52.50
and through whom we live."
00:22:52.53\00:22:55.01
Did you understand
what that verse is saying?
00:22:55.04\00:22:57.24
All things are from
the Father through the Son?
00:22:57.27\00:23:01.77
In other words
the Son implements
00:23:01.80\00:23:03.62
the will of the Father.
00:23:03.65\00:23:06.03
Notice Colossians 1:16
has the same idea again,
00:23:06.06\00:23:10.64
Colossians 1:16 it
says speaking about Jesus,
00:23:10.67\00:23:14.76
"For by Him all things
were created that are in heaven
00:23:14.79\00:23:19.27
and that are on
earth, visible and invisible,
00:23:19.30\00:23:22.46
whether thrones or dominions
00:23:22.49\00:23:24.32
or principalities or powers.
00:23:24.35\00:23:26.88
All things were created
through Him and for Him."
00:23:26.91\00:23:32.06
So creation is by the
Father through the Son,
00:23:32.09\00:23:36.64
the son implements
00:23:36.67\00:23:38.57
the Father's
will in others words.
00:23:38.60\00:23:41.36
Notice Hebrews 1:1, 2
00:23:41.39\00:23:44.66
once again
speaking about creation,
00:23:44.69\00:23:46.73
before sin came
into the universe.
00:23:46.76\00:23:50.64
It says there in Hebrews 1:1, 2,
00:23:50.67\00:23:53.14
"God, that's God the Father,
00:23:53.17\00:23:55.05
who at various
times and in various ways
00:23:55.08\00:23:57.86
spoke in time past to
the fathers by the prophets,
00:23:57.89\00:24:01.71
has in these last days
spoken to us by His Son."
00:24:01.74\00:24:05.15
See in these last days
00:24:05.18\00:24:06.29
the Father has spoken
to us through the Son,
00:24:06.32\00:24:08.82
and now notice,
00:24:08.85\00:24:10.00
"Whom He has
appointed heir of all things."
00:24:10.03\00:24:13.55
Who has appointed
the Son to be the heir?
00:24:13.58\00:24:16.68
The Father has appointed
Jesus to the heir of all things
00:24:16.71\00:24:20.05
and now notice, "Through
whom also He made the worlds."
00:24:20.08\00:24:24.99
So through whom did God
the Father made the world?
00:24:25.02\00:24:28.82
He made them
through Jesus Christ?
00:24:28.85\00:24:33.13
I would like to
ask you this question,
00:24:33.16\00:24:34.55
was Jesus already Michael,
00:24:34.58\00:24:36.60
the archangel before
sin came into the universe?
00:24:36.63\00:24:40.24
Was Jesus the
commander of the angelic host
00:24:40.27\00:24:43.50
before sin came
into the universe.
00:24:43.53\00:24:45.43
He most certainly was.
00:24:45.46\00:24:48.18
And I want you to
notice Revelation 12:7-9,
00:24:48.21\00:24:52.22
Revelation
12:7-9 makes this clear.
00:24:52.25\00:24:55.68
It says, "And war
broke out in heaven,
00:24:55.71\00:24:58.24
Michael and his angels
fought with the dragon,
00:24:58.27\00:25:01.80
and the dragon
and his angels fought
00:25:01.83\00:25:04.36
but they did not prevail,
00:25:04.39\00:25:06.55
nor was a place found for
them in heaven any longer.
00:25:06.58\00:25:09.75
So the great dragon was
cast out, that serpent of old,
00:25:09.78\00:25:12.52
called the Devil and Satan,
00:25:12.55\00:25:13.98
who deceives the whole world,
00:25:14.01\00:25:15.38
he was cast to the earth,
00:25:15.41\00:25:16.85
and his angels
were cast out with him."
00:25:16.88\00:25:19.52
So Jesus was
already the commander
00:25:19.55\00:25:21.83
of the heavenly host
00:25:21.86\00:25:23.42
before sin came
into the universe.
00:25:23.45\00:25:26.07
In fact, we know that it was
00:25:26.10\00:25:28.53
because Lucifer did not
want to keep his position,
00:25:28.56\00:25:32.99
he wanted a higher
position that led to his sin.
00:25:33.02\00:25:37.00
He was not
satisfied with the position
00:25:37.03\00:25:39.13
that God had given him.
00:25:39.16\00:25:40.47
He wanted to ascend
to a higher position.
00:25:40.50\00:25:44.52
Now, Ellen White has
some very interesting comments
00:25:44.55\00:25:48.64
about what took place when
Lucifer felt these jealous,
00:25:48.67\00:25:52.93
envious feeling of Jesus Christ.
00:25:52.96\00:25:55.50
And when we read
these statements,
00:25:55.53\00:25:57.05
we notice that Ellen
White clearly indicates
00:25:57.08\00:25:59.72
that even before sin,
00:25:59.75\00:26:01.59
Jesus was subject to the Father
00:26:01.62\00:26:03.54
and received
orders from His Father.
00:26:03.57\00:26:06.39
I want to read first
of all from the book,
00:26:06.42\00:26:08.27
Lift Him Up, page 18.
00:26:08.30\00:26:11.29
Ellen White says this,
"The Father then made known,
00:26:11.32\00:26:16.78
he is speaking to the angels
when he gathered them together,
00:26:16.81\00:26:19.67
that it was ordained
by Himself that Christ,
00:26:19.70\00:26:24.42
His Son, should be
equal with Himself,
00:26:24.45\00:26:28.11
so that wherever was
the presence of His Son,
00:26:28.14\00:26:31.16
it was His own presence.
00:26:31.19\00:26:33.42
The word of the
Son was to be obeyed
00:26:33.45\00:26:36.16
as readily as the
word of the Father."
00:26:36.19\00:26:39.61
Listen carefully to this now.
00:26:39.64\00:26:41.38
"His Son He had
invested with authority
00:26:41.41\00:26:45.33
to command the heavenly host."
00:26:45.36\00:26:47.05
Who invested
Jesus with the authority
00:26:47.08\00:26:49.05
to command the
angels? The father did.
00:26:49.08\00:26:52.24
She continued saying,
00:26:52.27\00:26:53.72
"Especially was His Son
to work in union with Himself
00:26:53.75\00:26:58.16
in the anticipated
creation of the earth
00:26:58.19\00:27:00.87
and every living thing that
should exist upon the earth.
00:27:00.90\00:27:04.34
His Son listen carefully,
00:27:04.37\00:27:06.12
His son would carry out
His will and His purposes
00:27:06.15\00:27:11.39
but would do
nothing of Himself alone.
00:27:11.42\00:27:14.71
The Father's will
would be fulfilled in Him."
00:27:14.74\00:27:17.86
Was Jesus subject to
His Father in eternity?
00:27:17.89\00:27:21.04
He most certainly was.
00:27:21.07\00:27:23.06
Now here is another statement.
00:27:23.09\00:27:24.37
This is a little bit longer
00:27:24.40\00:27:26.45
where Ellen
White is talking about
00:27:26.48\00:27:28.34
when Lucifer felt this envious,
00:27:28.37\00:27:31.32
envious feelings within himself
00:27:31.35\00:27:33.69
and he was filled with jealousy,
00:27:33.72\00:27:35.57
God called all the
angelic host together
00:27:35.60\00:27:37.76
to explain the
position of Jesus.
00:27:37.79\00:27:39.78
Listen to what she says.
00:27:39.81\00:27:42.27
This is Patriarchs
and Prophets, page 36.
00:27:42.30\00:27:45.24
"The King of the universe
00:27:45.27\00:27:47.69
summoned the
heavenly hosts before Him,
00:27:47.72\00:27:50.84
that in their presence
00:27:50.87\00:27:52.48
He might set forth the
true position of His Son
00:27:52.51\00:27:56.20
and show the relation
00:27:56.23\00:27:57.49
He sustained to
all created beings.
00:27:57.52\00:28:00.50
The Son of God
shared the Father's throne,
00:28:00.53\00:28:03.49
and the glory of the eternal,
00:28:03.52\00:28:05.48
self-existent
One encircled both."
00:28:05.51\00:28:08.53
See they shared the
throne, they were equal.
00:28:08.56\00:28:11.31
She continued saying,
00:28:11.34\00:28:14.04
"About the throne
gathered the holy angels,
00:28:14.07\00:28:16.72
a vast, unnumbered throng
00:28:16.75\00:28:18.88
"ten thousand
times ten thousand,
00:28:18.91\00:28:21.49
and thousands of thousands"
the most exalted angels,
00:28:21.52\00:28:25.59
as ministers and subjects,
00:28:25.62\00:28:27.53
rejoicing in the
light that fell upon them
00:28:27.56\00:28:29.98
from the presence of the Deity.
00:28:30.01\00:28:32.53
Before the assembled
inhabitants of heaven
00:28:32.56\00:28:35.43
the King that's the
Father declared that none
00:28:35.46\00:28:40.52
but Christ, the
Only Begotten of God,
00:28:40.55\00:28:43.59
could fully enter
into His purposes,
00:28:43.62\00:28:47.21
and to Him that is to Jesus
00:28:47.24\00:28:49.30
it was committed to execute
00:28:49.33\00:28:51.45
the mighty
counsels of His will."
00:28:51.48\00:28:55.47
Whose councils
did Jesus execute?
00:28:55.50\00:28:58.93
The councils of His Father.
00:28:58.96\00:29:01.18
She continues saying,
00:29:01.21\00:29:02.56
"The Son of God had
wrought the Father's will
00:29:02.59\00:29:06.25
in the creation of
all the hosts of heaven
00:29:06.28\00:29:08.90
and to Him, as well as to God,
00:29:08.93\00:29:11.29
their homage and
allegiance were due.
00:29:11.32\00:29:14.31
Christ was still to
exercise divine power,
00:29:14.34\00:29:17.10
in the creation of the
earth and its inhabitants."
00:29:17.13\00:29:20.29
Now here comes the key
point of the quotation,
00:29:20.32\00:29:23.21
"but in all this He
would not seek power
00:29:23.24\00:29:26.99
or exaltation for
Himself contrary to God's plan,
00:29:27.02\00:29:31.85
but would exalt
the Father's glory
00:29:31.88\00:29:34.94
and execute His purposes
of beneficence and love."
00:29:34.97\00:29:41.32
One more statement,
00:29:41.35\00:29:42.85
The Signs of the
Times, October 24, 1906.
00:29:42.88\00:29:47.38
Ellen White
says, "It is a mystery
00:29:47.41\00:29:49.78
that One equal listen carefully,
00:29:49.81\00:29:52.70
equal with the eternal
Father should so abase Himself
00:29:52.73\00:29:57.50
as to suffer the cruel
death of the cross to ransom man
00:29:57.53\00:30:01.99
and it is a mystery
that God so loved the world
00:30:02.02\00:30:05.57
as to permit His Son to
make this great sacrifice."
00:30:05.60\00:30:11.53
Interesting, did the
Father have to permit
00:30:11.56\00:30:15.12
His Son to make the sacrifice?
00:30:15.15\00:30:17.49
Yes, was the son
subject to do the Father's will
00:30:17.52\00:30:20.77
even in eternity? Absolutely.
00:30:20.80\00:30:24.24
So, is it possible for
individuals to be equal
00:30:24.27\00:30:27.78
and yet have different functions
00:30:27.81\00:30:29.47
and have one be subordinate
00:30:29.50\00:30:31.22
or in subjection to
the other? Absolutely.
00:30:31.25\00:30:34.79
In a perfect
environment that is true.
00:30:34.82\00:30:38.92
Now, did Jesus
also subject Himself
00:30:38.95\00:30:41.85
to His Father
during His incarnation?
00:30:41.88\00:30:45.39
Was Jesus still
equal to His Father
00:30:45.42\00:30:47.78
while He was still,
while He was on this earth?
00:30:47.81\00:30:50.64
Absolutely.
00:30:50.67\00:30:52.10
Did Jesus carry on a
very important ministry
00:30:52.13\00:30:55.59
while He was on this earth
00:30:55.62\00:30:57.17
as sacred and as important
00:30:57.20\00:31:00.42
as the ministry that
the Father was executing
00:31:00.45\00:31:03.10
sitting on His throne in heaven?
00:31:03.13\00:31:04.90
Yes or no. Absolutely.
00:31:04.93\00:31:07.23
They were equal
00:31:07.26\00:31:08.92
and yet they had
different functions
00:31:08.95\00:31:11.00
or different roles.
00:31:11.03\00:31:12.08
The father on His
throne ruling the universe
00:31:12.11\00:31:15.03
and keeping things together
00:31:15.06\00:31:16.58
and Jesus Christ
coming to live on this earth
00:31:16.61\00:31:19.99
and to die on the cross.
00:31:20.02\00:31:21.89
They both were
involved in the ministry,
00:31:21.92\00:31:24.25
they both have
the same abilities
00:31:24.28\00:31:26.56
and yet they had
different roles in ministry.
00:31:26.59\00:31:30.01
Ellen White in the
book Spirit of Prophecy,
00:31:30.04\00:31:32.18
volume 2, page 164 said this.
00:31:32.21\00:31:36.18
"Jesus claimed
equal rights with God
00:31:36.21\00:31:40.97
in doing a work equally sacred
00:31:41.00\00:31:44.41
and of the same character
00:31:44.44\00:31:46.66
with that which
engaged his Father in Heaven.
00:31:46.69\00:31:50.03
So while Jesus was on earth,
00:31:50.06\00:31:51.96
why did He claim equal
rights with His Father?
00:31:51.99\00:31:54.97
Yes, He did.
00:31:55.00\00:31:56.49
Was He doing the
work equally sacred?
00:31:56.52\00:31:59.14
Yes, He was.
00:31:59.17\00:32:00.53
Was He doing the identical work
that the Father was doing? No.
00:32:00.56\00:32:05.19
They were fulfilling
different functions or roles,
00:32:05.22\00:32:09.53
and yet they were equal,
00:32:09.56\00:32:12.85
Jesus in fact
while He was on earth
00:32:12.88\00:32:15.34
always exalted His Father.
00:32:15.37\00:32:17.81
In fact Jesus in John 14:28
00:32:17.84\00:32:21.33
had something very
interesting to say.
00:32:21.36\00:32:24.06
"You have heard me say to you,
00:32:24.09\00:32:26.18
'I am going away
and coming back to you.'
00:32:26.21\00:32:29.08
If you loved me,
you would be rejoice
00:32:29.11\00:32:30.92
because I said, 'I
am going to my Father,
00:32:30.95\00:32:33.71
for My Father is
greater than I." You see.
00:32:33.74\00:32:37.87
Uh, see the Father was
greater than Jesus was.
00:32:37.90\00:32:40.85
Jesus was equal with His Father
00:32:40.88\00:32:43.64
but Jesus always
placed others ahead,
00:32:43.67\00:32:47.40
others in first place.
00:32:47.43\00:32:49.86
Notice John 5:30, John 5:30,
00:32:49.89\00:32:54.53
Jesus lived to exalt his father
00:32:54.56\00:32:56.72
while He was incarnate
00:32:56.75\00:32:57.81
even though He was
equal with His Father.
00:32:57.84\00:33:00.50
Jesus says there, "I
can of Myself do nothing.
00:33:00.53\00:33:03.97
As I hear, I judge and
my judgment is righteous
00:33:04.00\00:33:08.05
because I do not
seek My own will,
00:33:08.08\00:33:10.89
but the will of the
Father who sent Me."
00:33:10.92\00:33:13.20
Was Jesus still
subject to His Father
00:33:13.23\00:33:15.67
during the
entering of sin on earth
00:33:15.70\00:33:18.33
when He became incarnate.
00:33:18.36\00:33:20.32
Was He still
equal with His Father?
00:33:20.35\00:33:22.46
Absolutely, but subordinate
to His Father's will.
00:33:22.49\00:33:26.46
John 6:38, I could
read many more statements,
00:33:26.49\00:33:29.90
I'll read one
more from scripture
00:33:29.93\00:33:31.40
on this idea of Jesus fulfilling
the will of His Father
00:33:31.43\00:33:34.86
during His incarnation.
00:33:34.89\00:33:36.38
John 6:38, Jesus is speaking
00:33:36.41\00:33:38.53
and He says, "For I
have come down from heaven,
00:33:38.56\00:33:41.72
not to do My own will,
00:33:41.75\00:33:43.78
but the will of
Him who sent Me".
00:33:43.81\00:33:47.88
In Desire of
Ages, page 22 and 23,
00:33:47.91\00:33:51.82
Ellen White explains
in this magnificent book
00:33:51.85\00:33:55.52
the greatest biography
00:33:55.55\00:33:56.83
I believe ever written
of Christ outside the Bible.
00:33:56.86\00:34:00.11
Ellen White says,
"He might have retained
00:34:00.14\00:34:02.60
the glory of heaven, and
the homage of the angels.
00:34:02.63\00:34:06.58
But He chose to
give back the scepter
00:34:06.61\00:34:09.52
into the Father's hands,
00:34:09.55\00:34:12.07
and to step down from
the throne of the universe,
00:34:12.10\00:34:15.82
that He might bring
light to the benighted,
00:34:15.85\00:34:18.60
and life to the perishing.
00:34:18.63\00:34:21.24
You see folks,
Jesus did not grasp
00:34:21.27\00:34:24.91
equality with God as
something to be hung on to.
00:34:24.94\00:34:28.91
Jesus did not demand
His rights and His position,
00:34:28.94\00:34:33.39
Jesus came down.
00:34:33.42\00:34:35.17
Jesus came to minister,
He did not claim rights.
00:34:35.20\00:34:38.88
The Bible says that He
humbled Himself to minister.
00:34:38.91\00:34:42.65
This is described
in Philippians 2:5-8
00:34:42.68\00:34:47.18
where the Apostle Paul
says, "Let this mind be in you,
00:34:47.21\00:34:49.90
which was also in Christ Jesus,
00:34:49.93\00:34:52.27
who, being in the form of God,
00:34:52.30\00:34:54.78
we already discussed
this, did not consider
00:34:54.81\00:34:57.92
equality with God as
something to be grasped."
00:34:57.95\00:35:00.90
In other words, He didn't say,
00:35:00.93\00:35:02.13
I'm going to hang on
to My equality to God
00:35:02.16\00:35:04.34
because I'm equal with Him.
00:35:04.37\00:35:05.46
No, He did not decide to hang
on to His equality with God,
00:35:05.49\00:35:09.94
it says, "But made
Himself of no reputation,
00:35:09.97\00:35:14.29
taking the form of a bondservant
00:35:14.32\00:35:16.88
and coming in
the likeness of men.
00:35:16.91\00:35:19.73
And being found in
appearance as a man,
00:35:19.76\00:35:22.81
He humbled himself
and became obedient
00:35:22.84\00:35:25.41
to the point of death
even the death of the cross."
00:35:25.44\00:35:27.98
You see, in the mind of
Jesus things were not having
00:35:28.01\00:35:31.47
to do with rights and with
position and with ascending
00:35:31.50\00:35:35.63
and being number one, no.
00:35:35.66\00:35:37.59
His idea was to
descend to the lowest depths
00:35:37.62\00:35:41.47
in order to
minister and to serve others.
00:35:41.50\00:35:45.26
You see the problem is we
have our heads screwed on wrong.
00:35:45.29\00:35:49.04
We thinks that submission
or subjection is a bad thing,
00:35:49.07\00:35:53.96
that the one who
is subject is inferior
00:35:53.99\00:35:57.05
to the one he is subject to.
00:35:57.08\00:36:00.27
But Jesus thought that
subjection is greatness,
00:36:00.30\00:36:04.04
implementing God's
plan is true greatness.
00:36:04.07\00:36:08.45
In Signs of the
Times, January 8, 1880,
00:36:08.48\00:36:11.55
Ellen White explains
how Jesus became subject
00:36:11.58\00:36:15.11
to His Father's
while He was on earth.
00:36:15.14\00:36:17.35
This is what she
says, "Christ taught
00:36:17.38\00:36:20.72
that all true goodness
and greatness of character,
00:36:20.75\00:36:25.81
all peace and joy in the
soul, must come through perfect
00:36:25.84\00:36:30.79
and entire
submission to his Father's will,
00:36:30.82\00:36:34.92
which is the
highest law of duty."
00:36:34.95\00:36:36.95
Did you hear that statement.
00:36:36.98\00:36:38.92
All true goodness and
greatness of character,
00:36:38.95\00:36:42.29
all peace and Joy in the
soul must come through perfect
00:36:42.32\00:36:45.53
and entire
submission to his Father's will,
00:36:45.56\00:36:48.30
Jesus taught that in His life.
00:36:48.33\00:36:50.96
She continues saying,
"The lessons connected
00:36:50.99\00:36:52.89
with their commission,
which they were to put
00:36:52.92\00:36:55.16
to a practical use, were given
00:36:55.19\00:36:57.05
to the disciples
upon this occasion.
00:36:57.08\00:36:59.21
They were to carry the
light of truth to the world.
00:36:59.24\00:37:03.52
In the book, The
faith I live By, page 50,
00:37:03.55\00:37:06.02
she says speaking
about the death of Christ.
00:37:06.05\00:37:08.73
"He who died for
the sins of the world
00:37:08.76\00:37:11.65
was to remain in the
tomb the allotted time.
00:37:11.68\00:37:15.26
He was in that
stony prison house
00:37:15.29\00:37:17.51
as a prisoner
of divine justice."
00:37:17.54\00:37:20.86
Listen carefully
now, "He was responsible
00:37:20.89\00:37:23.80
to the Judge of the universe.
00:37:23.83\00:37:25.78
He was bearing
the sins of the world,
00:37:25.81\00:37:28.10
and His Father
only could release Him."
00:37:28.13\00:37:33.64
And you know when that angel
came down from heaven and said,
00:37:33.67\00:37:36.16
oh thou Son of God,
thy Father calls thee.
00:37:36.19\00:37:39.80
Jesus came out of the tomb with
a life that was within Himself
00:37:39.83\00:37:44.48
but He came out when His Father
gave him permission to come out,
00:37:44.51\00:37:48.96
according to the statement.
00:37:48.99\00:37:50.89
She says once again.
00:37:50.92\00:37:52.34
He was bearing
the sins of the world,
00:37:52.37\00:37:54.73
and His Father
only could release Him.
00:37:54.76\00:37:57.36
So was Jesus
subject to His Father's will
00:37:57.39\00:38:00.20
during His ministry. Yes.
00:38:00.23\00:38:02.76
Was He subject to his
Father's will in eternity past,
00:38:02.79\00:38:06.01
before sin came
into the universe?
00:38:06.04\00:38:08.02
Absolutely. But how about
after the ascension of Christ,
00:38:08.05\00:38:12.89
before sin is
eradicated from the universe.
00:38:12.92\00:38:15.81
In other words
between His ascension
00:38:15.84\00:38:17.76
and when sin comes to an end.
00:38:17.79\00:38:20.41
Is Jesus equal
with the Father today?
00:38:20.44\00:38:23.46
Yes, He is. Does Jesus
have the same abilities
00:38:23.49\00:38:26.88
and capacities that
His Father has? Absolutely.
00:38:26.91\00:38:30.46
Are both the Father and the Son
00:38:30.49\00:38:32.37
involved in
ministry? Yes, They are.
00:38:32.40\00:38:35.45
And so the issue is not
equality or ability or ministry,
00:38:35.48\00:38:41.83
the issue has to do
with roles or functions.
00:38:41.86\00:38:46.11
Are you with me or not?
00:38:46.14\00:38:47.43
Is it possible to have
different roles or functions
00:38:47.46\00:38:50.44
and at the same time
be equal? Absolutely.
00:38:50.47\00:38:53.43
Jesus is the
best example of this.
00:38:53.46\00:38:55.84
You see folks, to
be a subject is divine,
00:38:55.87\00:39:00.20
to want to ascend to a
higher position then God
00:39:00.23\00:39:04.22
has established is demonic
00:39:04.25\00:39:06.88
because that is
the spirit of Lucifer.
00:39:06.91\00:39:09.27
Is it just possible
that this whole issue
00:39:09.30\00:39:12.32
of women's ordination
has to do more with a desire
00:39:12.35\00:39:15.85
for position and for power?
00:39:15.88\00:39:18.64
Is it possible
there is a reflection
00:39:18.67\00:39:20.76
of the experience of the
Korah, whom God had called
00:39:20.79\00:39:25.03
to be a Levite but not a priest.
00:39:25.06\00:39:26.97
He said I could be a priest just
as good as the Levites could be.
00:39:27.00\00:39:31.50
I have abilities like they have,
00:39:31.53\00:39:34.74
and I could perform the
ministry the way that they do.
00:39:34.77\00:39:37.63
Let me ask you.
00:39:37.66\00:39:39.92
Could Korah had been a
good priest do you think?
00:39:39.95\00:39:42.07
Could he had
learned to be a good priest?
00:39:42.10\00:39:43.69
I think so. Do you think
he would had the ability?
00:39:43.72\00:39:47.38
Absolutely. But
where was the problem?
00:39:47.41\00:39:50.74
The problem is
God had not called him
00:39:50.77\00:39:52.89
to that specific function.
00:39:52.92\00:39:55.60
Was he equal to Erin or
was he inferior to Erin?
00:39:55.63\00:39:59.42
No, he was equal, but
he had a different work,
00:39:59.45\00:40:02.79
he had a different function.
00:40:02.82\00:40:07.14
Now, let's read John 17:4.
00:40:07.17\00:40:09.84
This is speaking about
after the ascension of Christ.
00:40:09.87\00:40:13.50
Actually Jesus is praying
in the Garden of Gethsemane
00:40:13.53\00:40:16.34
and notice what he says
in His prayer to His Father.
00:40:16.37\00:40:19.48
"And now, O Father, glorify Me."
00:40:19.51\00:40:24.13
Who is He asking to glorify Him?
00:40:24.16\00:40:26.78
His father, "O
now, and now O father,
00:40:26.81\00:40:30.15
glorify Me
together with yourself,
00:40:30.18\00:40:33.39
with the glory which I had
with you before the world was."
00:40:33.42\00:40:37.01
He is asking the
Father to glorify Him
00:40:37.04\00:40:39.94
and that happens
upon His ascension.
00:40:39.97\00:40:43.88
I want you to
notice also Acts 2:33.
00:40:43.91\00:40:47.14
You know, when Jesus
poured out the Holy Spirit
00:40:47.17\00:40:49.17
upon the apostles on
the day of Pentecost,
00:40:49.20\00:40:51.21
actually the
Father gave Him the gift
00:40:51.24\00:40:54.34
and then He gave
it to the disciples.
00:40:54.37\00:40:57.21
Notice what it says in Acts 2:33
speaking about Christ it says, "
00:40:57.24\00:41:01.62
Therefore being exalted
to the right hand of God,
00:41:01.65\00:41:04.24
and having
received from the Father
00:41:04.27\00:41:06.79
the promise of the Holy Spirit."
00:41:06.82\00:41:08.43
Who did He receive
the Holy Spirit from?
00:41:08.46\00:41:11.00
From the Father, having
received from the Father,
00:41:11.03\00:41:14.30
the promise of the
Holy Spirit, He poured out
00:41:14.33\00:41:16.87
this which you
now see and hear."
00:41:16.90\00:41:19.82
The Father gave Him
the promise of the spirit.
00:41:19.85\00:41:22.16
The Father glorified Him
when He ascended to heaven.
00:41:22.19\00:41:26.22
I want you to
notice 2 Corinthians 11:3.
00:41:26.25\00:41:30.71
This is a very important verse,
that tells us that the Father
00:41:30.74\00:41:35.15
is the head of Christ.
00:41:35.18\00:41:37.54
Now notice what we find here,
00:41:37.57\00:41:39.87
"But I want you to know that
the head of every man is Christ,
00:41:39.90\00:41:45.17
the head of woman is man,
and the head of Christ is God."
00:41:45.20\00:41:52.95
So who is the
head of Christ? God.
00:41:52.98\00:41:55.94
Does Jesus have a
problem with that? No.
00:41:55.97\00:41:59.23
So let me ask you this.
00:41:59.26\00:42:01.13
Would it be a
problem for man to realize
00:42:01.16\00:42:03.69
that Christ is his head? No.
00:42:03.72\00:42:06.68
Would it be a problem
for woman to recognize
00:42:06.71\00:42:09.08
that man is her head? No.
00:42:09.11\00:42:11.24
If it's not a problem
for man to recognize Christ
00:42:11.27\00:42:14.72
as his head and that Christ
recognizes God as His head,
00:42:14.75\00:42:19.30
there shouldn't be any
problem with woman recognizing
00:42:19.33\00:42:22.34
that the man is
her head? Correct.
00:42:22.37\00:42:25.22
Now, I want you to
notice, Mathew 28:18.
00:42:25.25\00:42:29.26
Once again here Jesus is
speaking to His disciples
00:42:29.29\00:42:32.12
about the great commission
00:42:32.15\00:42:34.47
and there is a very
important expression
00:42:34.50\00:42:36.05
that we many
times don't focus on.
00:42:36.08\00:42:38.28
It says there, "And
Jesus came and spoke to them,"
00:42:38.31\00:42:41.76
that is to His disciples
saying, listen now carefully,
00:42:41.79\00:42:45.28
"All authority
what does it say next,
00:42:45.31\00:42:50.01
has been given to Me
in heaven and on earth."
00:42:50.04\00:42:55.04
Did Jesus now, He
gained the victory,
00:42:55.07\00:42:57.83
He come to His Father,
says, now I take my authority.
00:42:57.86\00:43:00.80
No. Even after His resurrection,
authority is given to Him
00:43:00.83\00:43:06.26
in heaven and in earth.
00:43:06.29\00:43:07.57
Who gives it to Him? His Father.
00:43:07.60\00:43:10.55
Notice Philippians 2:9-11.
00:43:10.58\00:43:13.67
We read the previous
verses where it says that Jesus
00:43:13.70\00:43:15.97
humbled Himself to the
point of dying on the cross.
00:43:16.00\00:43:20.03
Now notice what
happens after Jesus dies
00:43:20.06\00:43:22.62
and he ascends to heaven.
00:43:22.65\00:43:23.79
Philippians 2:9-11, it says,
00:43:23.82\00:43:26.38
"Therefore God also
has highly exalted Him."
00:43:26.41\00:43:31.28
Who exalted Jesus after
He came to this earth? God.
00:43:31.31\00:43:34.73
"Therefore God has
highly exalted him and given Him
00:43:34.76\00:43:38.84
the name that is
above every name."
00:43:38.87\00:43:41.29
Who gave Jesus the name?
00:43:41.32\00:43:42.79
The Father, "That at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow,
00:43:42.82\00:43:47.53
of those in heaven
and of those on earth
00:43:47.56\00:43:50.05
and of those under the
earth, and that every tongue
00:43:50.08\00:43:53.15
should confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord,
00:43:53.18\00:43:56.48
to the glory of God the Father."
00:43:56.51\00:43:59.05
Even after Jesus
ascends to heaven,
00:43:59.08\00:44:02.53
His father gives Him authority,
His Father glorifies to Him,
00:44:02.56\00:44:07.94
His Father gives Him the name
00:44:07.97\00:44:10.54
and its all for the
glory of God, the Father.
00:44:10.57\00:44:14.35
They are still
equal that the Father,
00:44:14.38\00:44:16.99
a Son is subject to
the will of the Father.
00:44:17.02\00:44:22.98
Now what did Jesus
exemplify in His teaching?
00:44:23.01\00:44:27.16
Jesus as I mentioned before
did not demand His rights.
00:44:27.19\00:44:32.55
He did not say just as
equity and mercy requires
00:44:32.58\00:44:38.66
that I be installed in an
equal position with my Father.
00:44:38.69\00:44:43.54
No, because the focus of
Jesus was not on position.
00:44:43.57\00:44:46.73
The focus of
Jesus was on ministry.
00:44:46.76\00:44:49.92
You see, Jesus taught
the last shall be first,
00:44:49.95\00:44:53.07
and the first shall be last.
00:44:53.10\00:44:55.29
He taught he who
exalts himself will be humbled
00:44:55.32\00:44:58.34
and he who humbles
himself will be exalted.
00:44:58.37\00:45:01.87
The Bible tells us
that Jesus emptied Himself
00:45:01.90\00:45:05.28
dying the death of the cross.
00:45:05.31\00:45:08.43
Is it just possible that they
struggled for rights and mercy
00:45:08.46\00:45:12.70
and just as an equity in
the women's ordination issue
00:45:12.73\00:45:16.87
is really a
reflection of Lucifer's desire
00:45:16.90\00:45:20.56
to occupy a position for
which God had not called him.
00:45:20.59\00:45:25.69
Now I would like
to ask this question.
00:45:25.72\00:45:27.97
Is Jesus going to be
subject to His Father
00:45:28.00\00:45:31.98
even after sin is
eradicated from the universe?
00:45:32.01\00:45:36.85
Go with me to 1
Corinthians 15:24, 28.
00:45:36.88\00:45:42.26
1 Corinthians 15:24,
28. There is no doubt
00:45:42.29\00:45:47.38
that throughout eternity Jesus
will be equal with His Father
00:45:47.41\00:45:51.55
but He will be
subject to His Father.
00:45:51.58\00:45:54.10
So is subjection a bad thing?
00:45:54.13\00:45:56.90
Does it have
anything to do with sin?
00:45:56.93\00:45:58.90
No, I'm not talking
about the husband trampling
00:45:58.93\00:46:00.98
on the wife, I'm talking
about legitimate authority,
00:46:01.01\00:46:04.43
legitimate relationship
where the husband loves the wife
00:46:04.46\00:46:08.51
and the wife in response
is subject to her husband.
00:46:08.54\00:46:11.52
Notice 1 Corinthians 15:24.
00:46:11.55\00:46:14.40
"Then comes the
end, when he delivers
00:46:14.43\00:46:19.06
the kingdom to God the Father."
00:46:19.09\00:46:20.81
What is Jesus is
going to do at the end?
00:46:20.84\00:46:22.43
"He is going to
deliver the kingdom to God,
00:46:22.46\00:46:25.17
the Father, when he
puts an end to all the rule
00:46:25.20\00:46:28.11
and all authority and power.
00:46:28.14\00:46:29.76
For he must
reign till he has put
00:46:29.79\00:46:32.52
all his enemies under His feet.
00:46:32.55\00:46:34.29
The last enemy that
will be destroyed is death.
00:46:34.32\00:46:37.28
For "He has put all
things under his feet."'
00:46:37.31\00:46:40.25
Now God has put everything
under the feet of Jesus,
00:46:40.28\00:46:43.40
but now listen carefully
to what it continues saying.
00:46:43.43\00:46:45.69
"But when he says "all
things are put under Him,
00:46:45.72\00:46:49.21
it is evident that
He who put all things
00:46:49.24\00:46:52.71
under Him is excepted."
00:46:52.74\00:46:56.39
Are you understanding
what Paul is saying?
00:46:56.42\00:46:58.11
All things are
under the feet of Jesus
00:46:58.14\00:47:00.76
with the exception
of whom? The Father.
00:47:00.79\00:47:06.14
Then in verse 28 it
says, "Now when all things
00:47:06.17\00:47:09.60
are made subject to
Him, that is to Jesus,
00:47:09.63\00:47:12.13
then the Son Himself
will also be subject to Him
00:47:12.16\00:47:18.12
who put all things under
Him, that God may be all in all.
00:47:18.15\00:47:23.49
Is the Son going
to subject Himself
00:47:23.52\00:47:25.54
to His Father in eternity?
00:47:25.57\00:47:27.59
Absolutely, the
Bible teaches that.
00:47:27.62\00:47:32.01
So in conclusion the
Father and the Son are equal
00:47:32.04\00:47:37.42
but the Son is subordinate
to His Father's authority.
00:47:37.45\00:47:42.20
Jesus does not demand equal
rights but rather is willing
00:47:42.23\00:47:47.15
to fulfill the rule His
father has established for Him.
00:47:47.18\00:47:51.25
It is easy for Jesus to be
subject to His Fathers will
00:47:51.28\00:47:55.04
because He knows
that His Father loves Him.
00:47:55.07\00:47:58.28
The relationship
between the Father,
00:47:58.31\00:48:00.26
the Son and the Holy Spirit
00:48:00.29\00:48:02.29
is the model for
human relationships.
00:48:02.32\00:48:06.18
Does Jesus complain
because He had to die?
00:48:06.21\00:48:10.69
Does the Holy Spirit complain
because he has to carry forward
00:48:10.72\00:48:14.26
the work of Jesus and
receive orders from Jesus?
00:48:14.29\00:48:17.25
Of course not because
their focus is not on position,
00:48:17.28\00:48:21.24
their focus is on
ministry, they do not focus
00:48:21.27\00:48:24.69
on authority, position or power.
00:48:24.72\00:48:28.32
In other words the relationship
between the Father and the Son
00:48:28.35\00:48:31.72
is the divine
model of the relationship
00:48:31.75\00:48:34.34
that should exist
between husbands and wives.
00:48:34.37\00:48:36.79
Let's pursue that
in the few minutes
00:48:36.82\00:48:38.63
that we have left.
00:48:38.66\00:48:40.89
Where Adam and
Eve created equal?
00:48:40.92\00:48:43.53
Yes, they were. The
Bible uses the word man
00:48:43.56\00:48:47.17
to describe both of them,
the word the generic word man.
00:48:47.20\00:48:50.33
Both were created
in the image of God.
00:48:50.36\00:48:52.79
Both were given
dominion over creation.
00:48:52.82\00:48:55.58
Both received
the blessing of God.
00:48:55.61\00:48:58.11
Both of them were commanded
to be fruitful and multiply.
00:48:58.14\00:49:01.80
Did Adam and Eve have an
intimate and close relationship?
00:49:01.83\00:49:06.00
Was there a
oneness between them? Yes.
00:49:06.03\00:49:09.20
Now we remember when we studied
about the Father and the Son.
00:49:09.23\00:49:12.83
The Bible tells us
that when Jesus created
00:49:12.86\00:49:15.41
Adam and Eve and married
them, they were no longer
00:49:15.44\00:49:18.20
two but they were what?
00:49:18.23\00:49:20.23
But they were one like
Jesus and the Fathers are one.
00:49:20.26\00:49:23.68
Was Eve Adam's second self,
Notice Adventist Home, page 25,
00:49:23.71\00:49:29.66
Ellen White
says, "A part of man,
00:49:29.69\00:49:32.43
bone of his bone,
and flesh of his flesh,
00:49:32.46\00:49:35.09
she was his second self."
00:49:35.12\00:49:38.25
What was Eve? His second
self, showing the close union
00:49:38.28\00:49:44.55
and the affectionate attachment
00:49:44.58\00:49:47.75
that should exist
in this relation."
00:49:47.78\00:49:50.37
Do you remember that Jesus
is the glory of the Father.
00:49:50.40\00:49:53.05
Do you the Apostle Paul
says in 1 Corinthians 11:7,
00:49:53.08\00:49:57.85
he says the woman
is the glory of man.
00:49:57.88\00:50:02.10
Now women might not like that
but that's what the Bible says
00:50:02.13\00:50:05.49
that the woman
is the glory of man.
00:50:05.52\00:50:07.85
Does the Bible command
the husband to love the wife
00:50:07.88\00:50:11.49
like the Father loved Jesus?
00:50:11.52\00:50:13.23
Absolutely. Husbands
love your wives as Christ
00:50:13.26\00:50:17.08
loved the church,
but then the Apostle Paul
00:50:17.11\00:50:19.02
says in-that's Ephesians 5:25.
00:50:19.05\00:50:22.20
In verse 22 he
says, "Wives be subject
00:50:22.23\00:50:25.22
on to your own husbands."
00:50:25.25\00:50:26.90
See you have that relationship.
00:50:26.93\00:50:28.84
Are the husband
and the wife supposed
00:50:28.87\00:50:31.06
to share everything
equally? Absolutely.
00:50:31.09\00:50:35.42
Are husband and wife to
know each other intimately?
00:50:35.45\00:50:38.94
Absolutely. Genesis
4:1 and also 25 speak
00:50:38.97\00:50:45.09
of that intimate relationship
between Adam and Eve
00:50:45.12\00:50:48.02
as being as knowing each other.
00:50:48.05\00:50:50.97
Ellen White says in
Patriarchs and Prophets, page 46
00:50:51.00\00:50:54.32
"God Himself
gave Adam a companion.
00:50:54.35\00:50:58.00
He provided "an
help meet for him"
00:50:58.03\00:51:00.58
a helper corresponding
to him one who was fitted
00:51:00.61\00:51:04.50
to be his
companion, and who could be one
00:51:04.53\00:51:07.45
with him in love and sympathy.
00:51:07.48\00:51:09.78
Eve was created from a rib
taken from the side of Adam,
00:51:09.81\00:51:13.60
signifying that she was
not to control him as the head,
00:51:13.63\00:51:16.68
nor to be trampled
under his feet as an inferior,
00:51:16.71\00:51:20.44
but to stand by
his side as an equal,
00:51:20.47\00:51:23.63
to stand by his side as a what?
00:51:23.66\00:51:25.80
As an equal, to be
loved and protected by him.
00:51:25.83\00:51:33.56
So that means
that man and woman have
00:51:33.59\00:51:35.62
the very same
roles and functions
00:51:35.65\00:51:38.52
as husband and wife?
00:51:38.55\00:51:40.26
True of false. False.
00:51:40.29\00:51:43.36
Can the man be the mother?
00:51:43.39\00:51:46.60
Can the woman be the
father? Absolutely not.
00:51:46.63\00:51:50.25
You see God has made man
and woman physiologically
00:51:50.28\00:51:55.33
and psychologically adopted
to fulfill different roles
00:51:55.36\00:51:59.81
within the
marriage relationship.
00:51:59.84\00:52:01.93
You see the man does not seize
to be a father and the woman,
00:52:01.96\00:52:05.55
the mother as a result of
the death of Jesus on the cross.
00:52:05.58\00:52:08.54
It's true that the Apostle
Paul says in Galatians 3:28
00:52:08.57\00:52:12.17
that there is no
longer male nor female
00:52:12.20\00:52:14.20
but all you have to do is look
to know that's not talking about
00:52:14.23\00:52:17.11
the biological and psychological
differences of men and women.
00:52:17.14\00:52:20.10
It's talking about
equal status before God.
00:52:20.13\00:52:23.23
It's talking about, about
equal in value before God.
00:52:23.26\00:52:26.78
It's speaking about
the fact that men and women
00:52:26.81\00:52:29.27
have equal access to
salvation but it's not saying
00:52:29.30\00:52:32.63
that they
fulfill identical roles.
00:52:32.66\00:52:36.73
One scholar stated.
00:52:36.76\00:52:38.42
Man and woman, this
is an Adventist scholar.
00:52:38.45\00:52:40.90
Man and woman are completely
equal without any submission
00:52:40.93\00:52:46.44
or subordination
of one to the other,
00:52:46.47\00:52:48.72
even though they were created
with sexual differentiation.
00:52:48.75\00:52:53.19
Now, that's not biblical,
00:52:53.22\00:52:55.32
and it does not
fit the divine model.
00:52:55.35\00:52:59.63
I want to read
from Ephesians 5:22-24
00:52:59.66\00:53:04.42
where the Apostle Paul,
this is after the cross,
00:53:04.45\00:53:07.34
many years after the cross.
00:53:07.37\00:53:09.03
Is it still God's
plan that wives submit
00:53:09.06\00:53:11.13
to their husbands and
husbands love their wives?
00:53:11.17\00:53:13.19
Absolutely. Here
the Apostle Paul says,
00:53:13.22\00:53:15.55
"Wives, submit to your
own husbands, as to the Lord.
00:53:15.58\00:53:19.17
For the husband is
the head of the wife
00:53:19.20\00:53:22.21
as also Christ is
the head of the church,
00:53:22.24\00:53:25.40
and he is the
Savior of the body.
00:53:25.43\00:53:27.43
Therefore, just as
church is subject to Christ,
00:53:27.46\00:53:30.66
so let the wives be to their
own husbands in everything.
00:53:30.69\00:53:34.09
Husbands, love your
wives, just as Christ also loved
00:53:34.12\00:53:38.46
the church and
gave Himself for her."
00:53:38.49\00:53:41.37
Ellen White concurs in the book
00:53:41.40\00:53:44.21
Counsels to the
Church, pages 145 and 146.
00:53:44.24\00:53:47.57
She says, "The
Lord has constituted
00:53:47.60\00:53:50.35
the husband the head of
the wife to be her protector,
00:53:50.38\00:53:53.78
he is the
house-band of the family,
00:53:53.81\00:53:56.85
binding the members
together, even as Christ
00:53:56.88\00:54:00.21
is the head of the church
00:54:00.24\00:54:01.67
and the Savior of
the mystical body."
00:54:01.70\00:54:04.20
And somebody might say
okay, pastor you presented
00:54:04.23\00:54:06.72
enough evidence that truly
in the marriage relationship,
00:54:06.75\00:54:10.77
they are equal but the wife
should be subject to the husband
00:54:10.80\00:54:14.13
and the husband
should love his wife.
00:54:14.16\00:54:16.14
But how do you know that
translates into the church
00:54:16.17\00:54:20.14
where the man should
be the head of the church
00:54:20.17\00:54:22.77
and woman should be subject
to the authority of the man.
00:54:22.80\00:54:27.46
Allow me to read you
just a couple of statements
00:54:27.49\00:54:29.40
from the Sprit of
Prophecy as we close.
00:54:29.43\00:54:32.81
This statement is volume 5
of the Testimonies, page 618.
00:54:32.84\00:54:37.21
Ellen White says,
notice the connection
00:54:37.24\00:54:38.84
between the headship
of the man in the home
00:54:38.87\00:54:42.39
and the idea that the head in
the church should also be male.
00:54:42.42\00:54:46.94
The family of
the once that jested
00:54:46.97\00:54:48.98
for office should be considered,
00:54:49.01\00:54:52.07
so when somebody
is elected for office,
00:54:52.10\00:54:55.05
should their
family be considered?
00:54:55.08\00:54:56.70
Absolutely. "The
family of the one suggested
00:54:56.73\00:54:59.15
for office should be considered.
00:54:59.18\00:55:00.89
Are they in subjection?"
00:55:00.92\00:55:02.74
Now notice. "Can
the man rule his house,
00:55:02.77\00:55:08.64
his own house with honor?
00:55:08.67\00:55:10.66
What character
have his children?
00:55:10.69\00:55:13.39
Will they do honor to
the father's influence?
00:55:13.42\00:55:16.46
If he has no tact,
wisdom, or power of godliness
00:55:16.49\00:55:20.77
at home in
managing his own family,
00:55:20.80\00:55:23.88
it is safe to
conclude that the same defects
00:55:23.91\00:55:27.73
will be carried into the church,
and the same unsanctified
00:55:27.76\00:55:31.32
management will be seen there.
00:55:31.35\00:55:33.00
It will be far better
to criticize the man before
00:55:33.03\00:55:37.41
he is put into
office than afterward,
00:55:37.44\00:55:39.80
better to pray and counsel
before taking the decisive step
00:55:39.83\00:55:43.33
than to labor to correct
00:55:43.36\00:55:44.89
the consequences
of a wrong move."
00:55:44.92\00:55:47.01
Did you notice a
number of times that the male,
00:55:47.04\00:55:50.27
a pronoun is
used in this passage
00:55:50.30\00:55:52.49
and the word father is used?
00:55:52.52\00:55:55.15
The man has to be a
good ruler in his house,
00:55:55.18\00:55:57.53
so that he can be a good
ruler and elder in the church.
00:55:57.56\00:56:00.08
Final statement, "He
who is engaged in the work
00:56:00.11\00:56:02.80
of the gospel ministry must
be faithful in his family life.
00:56:02.83\00:56:06.50
It is as essential that
as a father he should improve
00:56:06.53\00:56:11.85
the talents God has given him
00:56:11.88\00:56:13.67
for the purpose
of making the home
00:56:13.70\00:56:15.50
a symbol of the heavenly family,
00:56:15.53\00:56:17.47
as that in the
work of the ministry,
00:56:17.50\00:56:20.03
he should make use of his God
00:56:20.06\00:56:22.77
given powers to win
souls for the church.
00:56:22.80\00:56:25.12
As the priest in the home,
and as the ambassador of Christ
00:56:25.15\00:56:29.43
in the church,
he should exemplify
00:56:29.46\00:56:32.78
in his life the
character of Christ.
00:56:32.81\00:56:35.15
He must be faithful
in watching for souls
00:56:35.18\00:56:37.69
as one that
must give an account.
00:56:37.72\00:56:39.48
In his service
there must be seen
00:56:39.51\00:56:42.00
no carelessness
and inattentive work.
00:56:42.03\00:56:44.24
God will not serve with the
sins of men who have not a clear
00:56:44.27\00:56:49.43
sense of the sacred
responsibility involved
00:56:49.46\00:56:52.23
in accepting a
position as pastor of a church.
00:56:52.26\00:56:55.71
He who fails to be a faithful,
discerning shepherd in the home,
00:56:55.74\00:56:59.92
will surely fail of
being a faithful shepherd
00:56:59.95\00:57:03.39
of the flock of
God in the church.
00:57:03.42\00:57:07.01
Is that clear.
00:57:07.04\00:57:08.34
The same requisites for the home
00:57:08.37\00:57:10.86
apply as well to the church.
00:57:10.89\00:57:14.72