The following
program presents principles
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designed to promote
good health and is not
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intended to take the
place of personalized
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professional care.
The opinions and ideas
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expressed are
those of the speaker.
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Viewers are encouraged to
draw their own conclusions
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about the information presented.
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Welcome to Wonderfully
Made. I am Dr. David DeRose,
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president of
Compass Health Incorporated.
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Today, we are going to be
looking at a subject that is
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really grabbing lots
of headlines, but perhaps
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not in the way
that you think they are.
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We are gonna be speaking
about a subject, looking at
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natural remedies
and the challenges in
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natural remedies
research to aid me in this very
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important topic as well
as giving you some practical
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insights that will help
you at home is Dr. John Clark.
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Dr. Clark, it's
wonderful to have you with us
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on today's edition
of Wonderfully Made.
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Thanks for having me.
You know John, we in the
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medical profession are
always hearing about the
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latest studies, there are
all kinds of continuing medical
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education classes that
are trying to make sure,
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patients have cutting
edge information and that
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they are applying
it in their practice.
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The Montra if you will
will in medical circles
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today is evidence based. Yes.
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What does that conjure up
in your mind as a physician?
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Well, when you're talking
about evidence, it sounds
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like a court case.
You know, in fact that's
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where it ends up a lot of times,
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so are you following
exactly what the letter of
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the medical literature
says? Now, this is a fascinating
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topic and for those
of you tuning in today,
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there are study after
study coming out, putting out
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conclusions that really
raise concerns about the way
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doctors are practicing.
I've got some of them
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with me today,
sitting on my desk,
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talking about whether
physicians are complying with
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current guidelines.
Here is one from the
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mayo clinic proceedings,
patients understanding and
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compliance with medications.
Medical professionals as
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they look at the landscape
of American medicine are very
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concerned. That doctors
and patients are not complying,
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they are not following
the best evidence and what
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they are doing. Dr.
Clark, you have been treating
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patients over the
years, you are doing a lot
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with patient education,
are you worried that patients
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are not complying with
evidence based medicine.
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Well, I certainly
worry when they don't comply
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with what I tell them.
Well, hopefully your giving
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them what you think is
the best information, right.
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That's right. And, you're really
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worry about that.
Oh! Yeah, you know,
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you tell him what to
do, and they do half of it,
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and they get half a
results or they're half sicker.
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So, when these expert
bodies come out with a
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proclamation, let say,
let's take an example of
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some new
medication that's out there.
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Yes. The word comes out that
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they have done these
randomized controlled,
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the double blinded
studies, you know the highest
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standard of medical research
has been brought to bear
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and this new drug is
going to help with the certain
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problem and so the experts
say every patient with this
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condition should
be on this medication,
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you see things like
that come across your desk.
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Oh! Yeah. So,
does that mean that
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you as a physician then
really are not doing your job
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unless you prescribe that
medication for every patient
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with that condition.
Possibly and then of course
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you have the advertisements
to tell the patients about
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this information on their
TV screens, and they come in
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already having filled
out their shopping lists
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and they know what they want.
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Now, you exactly right,
there is a lot of demand for
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medication and part of
that demand is being fueled by
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advertising practices. Yes.
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So, what the
challenges is for us today?
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They were talking
about natural remedies and
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you and I both over the
years have worked with some
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simple approaches to
dealing with disease, we've seen
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God bless those simple
treatments and yet many times
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we don't have a huge
double blinded Placebo
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control trials,
after all how can you do a
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Placebo control
trial with hydrotherapy.
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What kind of Placebo is
going to be the substitute
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for putting a hot
pack on someone's chest,
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they're not going
to know about it, have
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you figured that one out.
Well, it's kind of difficult,
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I have seen some
studies where they came up
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with some interesting
Placebo's, but even the
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Placebo could have
some interesting affects.
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What, well the
bottom-line in a real
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Placebo control trial
is that someone is going to
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think that the treatment
and the Placebo are identical
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and if I'm sticking a
hot pack on your chest,
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you are not gonna walk
out of the study and say,
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well I'm not really sure,
whether I got the hot pack
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or whether I got something
that had no heat in it.
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That's right. So,
at a certain respect
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the playing field is
not completely level.
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Right. Because
with many of these
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natural remedies, especially
the physical modalities,
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the hydrotherapy,
you can't really do a
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true double
blinded study. True, yes.
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Tell me as an
orthopedic surgeon,
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I know that's what
your primary specialty is,
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whether you've seen
hydrotherapy provide
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benefits to your patients.
Oh! Definitely, you bet and
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I've often
instructed patients to do
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hydrotherapy at home.
Give us a practical example,
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so someone listening
to, we don't want to just to
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hear philosophy, we want
them to say, well you know,
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these guys talked
about some philosophy,
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but they gave me some
practical pointers, what can
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you do with hydrotherapy
in the orthopedic room.
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Oh! Well, for
example, I sprained my ankle,
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I use myself as an example.
And, what happened is I was
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moving some
furniture, I twisted my ankle,
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I thought a had broken it. Umm!
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I was sure that I
was gonna be in a cast.
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So, an orthopedic
surgeon misdiagnosed himself.
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Yes, I was thinking,
okay, it's gonna be funny
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maybe I ought to put
on my own cast and what am
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I gonna do. I was
crawling around the house.
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I couldn't put weight on
it. And so I started in on
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some
hydrotherapy. My hydrotherapy,
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well I put my foot
in a bucket of hot water
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for three minutes. Okay.
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Hot as I could stand and
then I put it in a bucket of
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ice cold water and it
was winter, so there was
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ice cold water coming
out of my faucet practically
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and that was one minute, I
went back to hot for three,
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back to cold for
one, the alternating
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hot and cold three
times. Okay, so three cycles,
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three applications of hot,
three applications of cold.
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That's right. And,
then I ended with cold,
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put on a stocking and let
it rest for about a half hour.
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A day or two of doing that,
three times a day and it was
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doing so well, I was
walking around the house, so I'd
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forgotten about it
and I twisted it again,
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sad to say, but I want to
back to my hydrotherapy again
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and within a couple of
days, I was fine. So, I didn't
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have any embarrassment of
walking around in my office
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or crutch
walking around my office
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explaining to patients
that I was one of them.
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Now, let me ask you
this, the conventional wisdom
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though John, with
acute injury is just use ice,
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just use cold, isn't
that what we've been told.
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Yes. Why were you using this
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alternating hot and
cold. Yeah, I am glad you bring
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that up and if my
ankle had been purple and
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three times it's normal size,
I would have used just ice.
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Okay. But it was
sore, it was hurt,
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but it wasn't swollen
badly and it certainly wasn't
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bruised or purple.
And, so just using the cold,
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that would have worked
too, but the hot and cold
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stimulates faster
healing, it tends to when you
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put on a hot, it
brings more blood into area.
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Umm! Umm! When
you put on the cold
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on the surface, it
tends to dry the blood deep,
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when you go back and
fourth those vessels opening and
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closing tend to pump
the tissues, so that it gets
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edema or swelling
out of the ankle. And,
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it also increases the
white count in the system
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and white cells are
involved in healing as well.
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So, it works very well.
So, there is no question
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in your mind that that
treatment was efficacious
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in dealing with
your sprained ankle.
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Correct, yes.
And, you've applied
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that counsel, you have
given that prescription
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to many of your
patients with similar injuries.
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Always. Yes, I
have. And they've had
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good results as well.
Oh! Yeah, yeah very good
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results and often time
we are able to avoid using
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poisonous drugs or
having to go on four more
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surgery or physical
therapy. Now, I am gonna ask you
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this question John, because
I haven't seen it, I haven't
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seen out there in the
literature where there is a
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study of alternating
hot and cold therapy,
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at least done recently.
Is there data out there
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like this or it just
something that we have
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experienced, make
sense as far the mechanisms
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and we used it
with, with efficacy.
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No, I haven't seen a lot
of studies on it. I do know
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there was a physical therapy
unit that did a little bit of
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research into it and they
claimed they couldn't find
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anything in the
current literature.
00:08:47.24\00:08:49.44
Although we're a bit
limited in that our current
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literature that will
shop on a computer, it's just
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in the last forty
years, we've basically lost
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everything prior to that
and that's when they would
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have been doing more
research on hydrotherapy.
00:08:58.71\00:09:01.57
Now, this is a fascinating
topic because as we speak
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about natural
remedies. The culture of America
00:09:04.32\00:09:08.64
at least for many
years was really set against
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natural remedies, all of
the funding for research was
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largely coming from
powerful commercial interest and
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you know, need we say,
we could identify certain
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sectors of the commercial
landscape in America or
00:09:26.81\00:09:30.68
the world, but it's not
just the drug companies.
00:09:30.71\00:09:33.65
Right, you know, we could
write a grant for the water
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company to fund us for
a hydrotherapy, but I've a
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feeling they don't have
quite the financial backing
00:09:41.49\00:09:43.96
of the drug companies.
Yeah, but when you talk about
00:09:44.43\00:09:47.10
diet things, okay they
are vested interest in certain
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segments of the dietary
remedies, it's usually the
00:09:49.92\00:09:53.24
people with the
most money, not the fruit
00:09:53.27\00:09:54.81
and vegetable growers. Right.
00:09:54.84\00:09:56.44
So, there are these
powerful commercial interests
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that are influencing
which research is done.
00:09:59.53\00:10:02.23
Yes. What research is funded.
00:10:02.26\00:10:04.24
Right. And, so as a result to
00:10:04.27\00:10:05.94
landscape when we look at
evidence based medicine is
00:10:05.97\00:10:09.27
largely shaped by
these interests or it's the
00:10:09.30\00:10:12.29
medical device
manufacturers. Yes, exactly.
00:10:12.32\00:10:16.00
Now you told me an
interesting story once about
00:10:16.03\00:10:18.76
this whole subject of
evidence based medicine
00:10:19.16\00:10:21.59
and how, even back in
medical school, you were
00:10:21.62\00:10:23.92
given an assignment where
you had to look into this.
00:10:23.95\00:10:26.04
Yeah. Tell us
what you've learned.
00:10:26.07\00:10:27.60
Yeah, one of my assignments
was to do a little talk
00:10:27.71\00:10:30.95
on evidence based
medicine and the idea being that
00:10:30.98\00:10:34.57
I would come out with
this discussion of how
00:10:34.60\00:10:36.98
everybody needed to
follow the literature perfectly
00:10:37.01\00:10:39.45
or be a bad doctor.
So, I went and looked into
00:10:39.48\00:10:42.55
the biostatistics
behind evidence based medicine
00:10:42.58\00:10:45.47
and there was a group
who had gone through the
00:10:45.50\00:10:47.36
literature, looked at
something like 14000 articles
00:10:47.39\00:10:51.12
and discovered that
40% of them didn't know
00:10:51.15\00:10:53.27
what they were
doing on biostatistics.
00:10:53.30\00:10:55.11
So, these were statisticians
that were looking over the
00:10:55.30\00:10:57.21
shoulders of the
medical researchers.
00:10:57.24\00:10:58.95
That's right, yes,
statisticians out of Boston,
00:10:58.98\00:11:02.49
and so the evidence
was against the evidence
00:11:02.52\00:11:05.59
based medicine, what's
more, they discovered that if a
00:11:05.62\00:11:08.24
research group
had negative results.
00:11:08.27\00:11:10.79
The results didn't necessary
support their hypothesis,
00:11:11.21\00:11:13.75
even though those
results if published would help
00:11:13.78\00:11:16.14
guide medicine,
they never published it.
00:11:16.17\00:11:18.49
Umm! Umm! And, so that's a large
00:11:18.52\00:11:20.87
majority of
literature that never makes it
00:11:20.90\00:11:22.70
to the printed
page. Yeah, so we talk
00:11:22.73\00:11:25.27
about this so
called publication bias.
00:11:25.30\00:11:27.60
Yes. And, so if someone is
00:11:27.63\00:11:28.68
studying a drug, if the
drug shows no benefit, they are
00:11:28.71\00:11:31.81
not likely to
actually publish that data.
00:11:31.84\00:11:33.75
Right. But, if the drug shows
00:11:33.78\00:11:35.96
benefit in a particular
study that'll hit the press.
00:11:35.99\00:11:38.46
Yes. What a lot of lay people
00:11:38.49\00:11:41.39
don't realize is that
statistics is not in all or
00:11:41.42\00:11:46.09
known phenomenon, in
medical circles we say,
00:11:46.12\00:11:49.46
if there is a one in twenty
chance or less of something
00:11:50.18\00:11:54.85
just occurring by the
flip of a coin then this is
00:11:54.88\00:11:58.74
statistically significant,
that's usually the criteria
00:11:58.77\00:12:02.41
that we use in medical
research studies. So, John
00:12:02.44\00:12:05.39
let's paint a scenario
here now, we're being a bit
00:12:05.42\00:12:08.02
cynical here just
to make our point.
00:12:08.05\00:12:09.90
Yeah. But let's say I come out
00:12:09.93\00:12:11.20
with a new drug. Umm! Umm!
00:12:11.23\00:12:12.70
And, I can say, it's a
drug to treat heart disease
00:12:12.73\00:12:15.98
patients after
having a heart attack.
00:12:16.01\00:12:18.04
Yes. And, I say this is the
00:12:18.07\00:12:19.92
you know, million dollar
market, billion dollar market
00:12:19.95\00:12:22.67
whatever and so I do 50 studies.
00:12:22.70\00:12:25.55
Umm! Umm! 47 of
them show absolutely no
00:12:25.58\00:12:29.58
benefit, some show people
get worse in those 47 studies.
00:12:29.61\00:12:33.18
Umm! Umm! But out
of those 50 studies
00:12:33.21\00:12:34.63
three show they get better.
Now, if you use this, the
00:12:34.66\00:12:38.90
standard rules of statistics
you would say, well this
00:12:38.93\00:12:42.24
it doesn't look like
anything, it's just by luck
00:12:42.81\00:12:44.56
of the draw, but if I just
publish those three studies.
00:12:44.59\00:12:46.98
Yeah. It looks like,
00:12:47.01\00:12:49.23
there was an impressive finding.
00:12:49.52\00:12:50.95
Yeah. Now, does that, I mean
00:12:50.98\00:12:53.00
again, this is a
really extra making something
00:12:53.03\00:12:56.14
ridiculously extreme,
but does things like this
00:12:56.17\00:12:58.69
happen in the drug
research literature.
00:12:58.72\00:13:00.37
Oh! Yeah, you bet. Or worst
yet though, hire a university
00:13:00.40\00:13:05.75
to produce a good research
or research and they will
00:13:06.19\00:13:12.02
set the parameters they are
looking for as being specific
00:13:12.05\00:13:17.54
to their drug, but
they aren't parameters
00:13:17.57\00:13:19.71
anybody else would
really be interested in.
00:13:19.74\00:13:21.54
And, then they'll find
statistical significance on
00:13:21.88\00:13:24.15
those parameters which really
don't tell you that the drug
00:13:24.18\00:13:27.15
is gonna help people.
Now, we don't want anyone
00:13:27.18\00:13:30.33
tuning in today to
think that we're, we're saying
00:13:30.56\00:13:33.04
there is never a place
for medication, we would
00:13:33.07\00:13:35.36
never recommend surgery,
that's not the message that
00:13:35.39\00:13:38.58
we are trying to give
today. But the point that were
00:13:38.61\00:13:40.80
trying to communicate
is many doctors today are
00:13:40.83\00:13:45.12
being educated that
there has to be solid evidence,
00:13:45.15\00:13:47.76
huge studies before we
should used any approach
00:13:47.79\00:13:51.45
as far as treatment.
What we are saying is,
00:13:51.48\00:13:53.57
once you take the step,
you start excluding many
00:13:53.60\00:13:57.27
of the most promising
strategies, strategies that
00:13:57.30\00:13:59.81
haven't under gone
this "vigorous approach,
00:13:59.84\00:14:03.60
because it often takes
millions or billions of
00:14:03.63\00:14:05.71
dollars to research
some of these things.
00:14:05.74\00:14:08.24
So, Dr. Clark how can we
intelligently then, in this
00:14:08.64\00:14:12.26
frame work use natural
therapies, I mean people
00:14:12.73\00:14:16.16
aren't out there necessarily
studying these things in the
00:14:16.19\00:14:19.70
detail that they are
the latest drug or surgery.
00:14:19.73\00:14:22.38
Yeah. You know, that's a
challenge for somebody and
00:14:23.35\00:14:26.81
one other things about
natural remedies is that it's
00:14:27.82\00:14:30.50
gotten bog down in a
lot of commercialism also.
00:14:30.53\00:14:33.35
Umm! And, somebody was asking me
00:14:33.38\00:14:35.91
the other day about
this author and that author,
00:14:35.94\00:14:38.02
and that book, and
that television show
00:14:38.05\00:14:39.59
and how would they know,
and one other things I told
00:14:39.62\00:14:42.41
them was, well if
their research is trying to
00:14:42.44\00:14:45.59
support the
product they have for sale.
00:14:45.62\00:14:48.16
You might want to
look for somebody that
00:14:49.02\00:14:50.93
researched it and had
no buyers or interest.
00:14:50.96\00:14:53.61
Now, this is a very,
very important concept,
00:14:53.64\00:14:56.18
much of what's being
purported as far as good
00:14:56.52\00:14:59.98
natural remedies
research is just as blatantly
00:15:00.01\00:15:04.18
commercial or even more
so than what we're seeing
00:15:04.21\00:15:06.73
coming out in the
medical literature.
00:15:06.76\00:15:08.76
Yes. And we don't want to give
00:15:08.79\00:15:10.43
impression that anything
out in the medical literature
00:15:10.46\00:15:13.41
skew you can't depend
on any of the studies, but
00:15:13.44\00:15:15.78
what we're saying is
it's not as cut and dried as
00:15:15.81\00:15:18.91
sometimes doctors want
it make out to be, even when
00:15:18.94\00:15:21.64
a study, a good study is
done. You always have to ask
00:15:21.67\00:15:25.71
who was the group that
was being studied. You know
00:15:25.93\00:15:28.78
Dr. Clark, let's say a
study comes out saying that
00:15:28.81\00:15:32.50
physicians who take
Acetaminophen, you know
00:15:32.53\00:15:36.41
Tylenol or some other
Anti-Inflammatory drug.
00:15:36.44\00:15:40.45
They take it every day
they live 10 years longer.
00:15:40.48\00:15:43.08
Lets say it's a good
study in this population of
00:15:43.11\00:15:45.05
physicians that we
study. You're a physician right.
00:15:45.08\00:15:46.95
Yes. So you being a physician,
00:15:46.98\00:15:49.78
you see this data come
out, you're gonna immediately
00:15:49.81\00:15:51.90
start taking
Tylenol every day right?
00:15:51.93\00:15:54.58
Well, actually I would
not. Now why is that? I mean if
00:15:55.15\00:15:58.10
the data is good, if
it's good, clean science,
00:15:58.13\00:16:00.47
why would you not do
that. I would question the data,
00:16:00.50\00:16:03.30
recently there's
been a number of articles
00:16:03.33\00:16:05.43
coming out to show that
drinking helps heart disease.
00:16:05.46\00:16:08.36
Well actually, you
know the the bombs that hit
00:16:08.94\00:16:10.73
Hiroshima helped heart disease.
00:16:10.76\00:16:12.30
People died of something
else and sometimes you have
00:16:12.33\00:16:15.70
to look and see if there
is research you know showing
00:16:15.73\00:16:17.72
that people live
longer, they probably feed
00:16:17.75\00:16:20.48
Acetaminophen or
Tylenol to people they already
00:16:20.70\00:16:22.98
suspected would live
longer. You know there always a
00:16:23.01\00:16:25.12
bias there to how
they set up the study.
00:16:25.15\00:16:27.00
Okay, well you know you've
touched on a number of things
00:16:27.03\00:16:29.93
I think we got to be
very careful with some of our
00:16:30.29\00:16:32.81
analogies and I'm glad
you're holding me to task
00:16:32.84\00:16:35.53
on this show as
well as I'm in your case,
00:16:35.56\00:16:38.02
but you made this association
with moderate drinking
00:16:38.43\00:16:41.25
and I'll tell you
my understanding of the
00:16:41.65\00:16:43.16
literature and you
tell me if I am saying it
00:16:43.19\00:16:45.45
the same way, I probably
would not use the illustration
00:16:45.48\00:16:48.46
with people dying
from other causes, because
00:16:48.49\00:16:51.30
I haven't seen that
data in the moderate drinking
00:16:51.33\00:16:53.95
literature. But what I
have seen is this, given an
00:16:53.98\00:16:56.86
excellent case, you may be
aware of this and that is the
00:16:56.89\00:16:59.64
Oxford vegetarian
study. When they looked at
00:16:59.67\00:17:02.08
people on a healthy
lifestyle, healthy diet,
00:17:02.11\00:17:04.56
they looked at their
moderate alcohol consumption.
00:17:05.03\00:17:07.29
They find it did not do
them a wit of good, as far as
00:17:07.32\00:17:10.38
decreasing their risk of
heart disease. So I believe
00:17:10.41\00:17:13.87
there are healthy compounds
in alcoholic beverages,
00:17:14.22\00:17:16.53
they were in the
plants to begin with.
00:17:16.56\00:17:17.87
So someone who is
deficient on Fido chemicals,
00:17:18.42\00:17:21.20
you know drinking some
wine may give them some benefit
00:17:22.07\00:17:25.34
as far as their
heart. I don't have a problem
00:17:25.37\00:17:26.80
saying that, but I would
also say that there are lots
00:17:26.83\00:17:30.98
of problems we know
connected with alcohol use.
00:17:31.01\00:17:33.79
And I would say you're
much better off eating the
00:17:33.92\00:17:35.70
whole fruits and vegetables
that the Lord provide.
00:17:35.73\00:17:37.80
I mean that's my take
on that subject and since
00:17:37.83\00:17:39.55
you've mentioned
it. I'm kind of curious,
00:17:39.58\00:17:41.47
I mean how do you
stand when it comes to
00:17:41.50\00:17:43.45
moderate drinking. You
know the moderate drinker
00:17:43.48\00:17:46.67
is fairly a rare person
actually. They're different,
00:17:46.70\00:17:51.10
the moderate drinker
who has the self control
00:17:51.37\00:17:54.28
perhaps to stop
at one or two drinks.
00:17:54.31\00:17:56.80
Is often, often more
highly educated, they have other
00:17:57.18\00:18:01.28
health benefits from exercise
and other lifestyle issues
00:18:01.52\00:18:05.00
that help them and so
there is actually sort of a
00:18:05.03\00:18:07.22
J-curve, you know low
income people who drink
00:18:07.25\00:18:10.34
a little bit or none.
Also have poor lifestyle
00:18:10.37\00:18:13.54
problems and so they start
as almost the Placebo group
00:18:13.91\00:18:17.02
that are not that
healthy and then you have the
00:18:17.05\00:18:19.62
moderate drinkers who are
a little bit or more healthy
00:18:19.77\00:18:21.97
just because of
their lifestyles.
00:18:22.00\00:18:23.51
And then you have the drunks
that get sick from everything
00:18:24.20\00:18:27.08
are at the other
end of the curve.
00:18:27.11\00:18:28.21
And so they pick on
this middle group of people
00:18:28.24\00:18:31.38
who are moderate
drinkers, whose lifestyle would
00:18:31.41\00:18:34.06
predict that they
would be healthier anyway.
00:18:34.09\00:18:36.57
And so it's often not a
good group to compare to,
00:18:36.60\00:18:39.86
so I don't believe the
studies that you know and
00:18:39.89\00:18:43.15
if you took the alcohol
away from the Bioflavonoids
00:18:43.18\00:18:46.15
and the, you know
things that are great to begin
00:18:46.18\00:18:48.60
with. You
wouldn't find a benefit.
00:18:48.63\00:18:50.94
You know it's interesting,
you're really speaking about
00:18:50.97\00:18:53.12
a subject that in statistics
we called confounding and
00:18:53.15\00:18:55.98
that means there is often
factors that the researchers
00:18:56.01\00:18:58.59
could not take into account
or did not take into account
00:18:59.16\00:19:01.91
that actually explain
the results. And you're
00:19:01.94\00:19:03.82
exactly right Dr. Clark, I
know in some of the alcohol
00:19:03.85\00:19:06.39
literature this is
actually what's found, that they
00:19:06.42\00:19:08.64
actually look back at
some of these studies and
00:19:08.67\00:19:11.23
they say no, it
wasn't the moderate drinking.
00:19:11.26\00:19:13.43
It was being more educated,
it was other things that
00:19:13.74\00:19:16.24
likely were not
measured that we know that
00:19:16.27\00:19:19.10
co-relate with
better health. Yeah.
00:19:19.13\00:19:21.53
So, I mean this is a
fascinating issue and
00:19:21.72\00:19:24.78
you know, maybe, maybe
some of the folks tuning
00:19:24.81\00:19:27.19
in today are not catching
the significance of this.
00:19:27.22\00:19:29.55
But, whenever there
is something out there in
00:19:29.58\00:19:31.84
the media, if you're
hearing things coming across the
00:19:31.87\00:19:34.58
television waves,
you're reading about them,
00:19:34.61\00:19:36.69
you're listing to them
on the radio. Who are more
00:19:36.72\00:19:39.43
likely to follow
those things, it's the
00:19:39.46\00:19:40.79
educated people. And so
if there is this perception,
00:19:40.82\00:19:43.95
right Dr. Clark, in society
that milk is good for you.
00:19:43.98\00:19:46.66
Who do you think
is drinking more milk.
00:19:46.97\00:19:48.33
Yeah the educated
readers. That's right.
00:19:48.36\00:19:50.88
Yeah. How was it, before we had
00:19:50.91\00:19:53.34
all the data about
hormone replacement therapy
00:19:53.37\00:19:56.34
and being harmful in
many ways, which women were
00:19:57.30\00:20:00.41
more likely to take
Estrogen and Progesterone
00:20:00.44\00:20:02.93
after menopause.
Oh! Doctor's wives.
00:20:02.96\00:20:05.31
That's right,
doctor's wives, educated women,
00:20:05.34\00:20:07.92
women who were
living healthy in many
00:20:07.95\00:20:10.97
other respects. So what
happens in that scenario.
00:20:11.00\00:20:13.72
When they study these women,
they have much better health.
00:20:14.22\00:20:17.48
They look, those taking
Estrogen and Progesterone,
00:20:17.51\00:20:19.96
they're getting all of
these benefits. Let's say
00:20:19.99\00:20:21.41
Alzheimer's, less heart disease,
00:20:21.44\00:20:23.03
less cancer. Less
cancer, I know I wouldn't
00:20:23.06\00:20:26.41
go that far, but the
point was there was always
00:20:26.44\00:20:29.08
exciting data coming out
and then when they did the
00:20:29.11\00:20:32.16
definitive
research, what did they find?
00:20:32.19\00:20:34.18
They found out that
they had to stop the studies.
00:20:34.72\00:20:37.04
The people in the treatment
group getting the hormone
00:20:37.07\00:20:39.48
replacement were having
some much cancer they felt
00:20:39.51\00:20:41.63
it was unethical to
continue the studies.
00:20:41.66\00:20:43.97
You know it's amazing
what happens when we just
00:20:44.55\00:20:47.28
look at data without having
any other filter beside the
00:20:47.31\00:20:51.67
medical community. I
was fascinated Dr. Clark but
00:20:51.70\00:20:54.55
something you shared
with me once and I know you're
00:20:54.93\00:20:57.40
prepared to share it
here. You told me there was a
00:20:57.43\00:20:59.97
guiding statement that
you've read once and you have
00:21:00.00\00:21:02.78
read many times
since no doubt, that really
00:21:02.99\00:21:05.48
focused your mind on
leveling the playing field.
00:21:05.51\00:21:08.99
Not being just dependent
on the secular researchers
00:21:09.02\00:21:12.48
and commercial interest,
but share with our viewers
00:21:12.51\00:21:16.55
today this statement that
is so significant for you.
00:21:16.58\00:21:19.46
Thank you, I sure will
and I'll just read here the
00:21:19.96\00:21:23.25
only hope of better things
is in the education of the
00:21:23.28\00:21:27.90
people in right principles.
Let physicians teach the
00:21:27.93\00:21:32.01
people that restorative
power is not in drugs,
00:21:32.04\00:21:35.48
but in nature. Disease is
an effort of nature to free the
00:21:35.51\00:21:40.08
system from conditions
that result from a violation
00:21:40.11\00:21:43.35
of the laws of health.
In the case of sickness,
00:21:43.38\00:21:46.26
the cause should be
ascertained, unhealthful
00:21:46.73\00:21:49.01
conditions should be
changed, wrong habits corrected.
00:21:49.04\00:21:52.42
Then nature is to be
assisted in her effort to
00:21:52.92\00:21:55.98
expel impurities and to
establish right conditions
00:21:56.01\00:22:00.17
in the system.
Now, I mean if someone
00:22:00.20\00:22:02.71
had never heard that before,
it may sound, I don't know
00:22:02.74\00:22:07.61
even kind of
antiquated, the languages used,
00:22:07.64\00:22:10.03
is this something
that just came out in a
00:22:10.06\00:22:11.47
medical journal, I mean
obviously if it's impacted
00:22:11.50\00:22:13.89
your practice it must be
something that's been out
00:22:13.92\00:22:15.42
there for a while.
It's been there for a while,
00:22:15.45\00:22:17.58
I think it was
written before I was born,
00:22:17.61\00:22:19.38
perhaps a 100
years. And of course we
00:22:19.41\00:22:21.66
both know the source. Yes.
00:22:21.69\00:22:23.25
It's a little book
called ministry of healing and
00:22:23.28\00:22:25.69
really though the statements
there, although some of us
00:22:26.43\00:22:28.65
would say as we
looked through not just that
00:22:28.68\00:22:30.72
statement but this whole
book, Ministry of Healing,
00:22:30.75\00:22:33.13
if you're not familiar
with it. It's a book that
00:22:33.16\00:22:35.15
was published many years
ago as Dr. Clark mentioned.
00:22:35.18\00:22:38.08
That I have found as
a physician compellingly
00:22:38.28\00:22:41.29
accurate when it comes to
medical conspectus and I'm
00:22:41.53\00:22:44.74
assuming if you're
using this as a guiding light,
00:22:44.77\00:22:46.94
it's been true for you Dr. Clark
00:22:46.97\00:22:48.58
Definitely true. It
was this book that many
00:22:48.61\00:22:51.91
of our viewers may
realize labeled tobacco as a
00:22:51.94\00:22:56.60
insidious and most malignant
poison, long before the
00:22:57.17\00:23:01.91
connection between
smoking and cancer was ever
00:23:02.31\00:23:05.00
nailed down. Yeah,
back when physicians
00:23:05.03\00:23:07.24
were prescribing
tobacco for asthma.
00:23:07.27\00:23:10.54
So this statement here
is saying that restorative
00:23:11.01\00:23:14.69
power is not in drugs.
Now, are we saying that
00:23:14.72\00:23:18.27
there is never a case
where medication could
00:23:18.30\00:23:20.89
give a person benefit?
No, we're not saying that.
00:23:20.92\00:23:24.35
But we are saying that it's
not the vital power that you
00:23:24.41\00:23:27.55
are gonna get from the drugs.
00:23:27.58\00:23:29.17
You need to look
to another source.
00:23:29.87\00:23:31.70
Okay so basically a drug
could be used in a context
00:23:31.96\00:23:35.69
where that drug has
physiologic effects that
00:23:35.91\00:23:38.35
actually help a person,
we're in agreement in that.
00:23:38.38\00:23:40.65
And often times we find
herbs are the source of drugs.
00:23:40.68\00:23:44.15
Okay. We all tend to think of
00:23:44.18\00:23:46.18
herbs as being very
helpful. Although there are some
00:23:46.21\00:23:48.48
poisonous herbs.
Okay. So there are drugs
00:23:48.51\00:23:51.14
out there that can
give benefit and yet you're
00:23:51.17\00:23:52.95
saying that you believe
this concept that restorative
00:23:52.98\00:23:56.70
power is not in
drugs. I mean, how do you
00:23:56.73\00:24:00.12
explain that. If a
drug, if I take an antibiotic
00:24:00.96\00:24:04.49
and I have got a strep throat.
00:24:04.52\00:24:06.01
And the strep throat
goes away. I mean most
00:24:06.34\00:24:08.47
people would say, well
that drug has restorative power,
00:24:08.50\00:24:11.56
it restored me from a
condition of strep throat
00:24:11.59\00:24:15.27
to a condition
of no strep throat.
00:24:15.30\00:24:17.31
That's right and
then often times people go
00:24:17.75\00:24:19.91
around singing the
praises of the antibiotic.
00:24:19.94\00:24:22.35
When in reality if
you had no immune system,
00:24:22.80\00:24:26.06
as we've had a few
people in history this way.
00:24:26.09\00:24:28.82
If you had no immune system,
taking an antibiotic would
00:24:29.46\00:24:31.89
do nothing for you. Okay.
00:24:31.92\00:24:33.87
The antibiotic merely
weaken cells, hopefully
00:24:33.90\00:24:36.91
mostly the bacterial
cells, but it weakens the cells
00:24:36.94\00:24:40.33
so your body can
attack that cell and kill it.
00:24:40.36\00:24:42.63
But often times it leaves
you with some weakness as well.
00:24:43.48\00:24:46.72
Especially in your
own good bacteria, such as
00:24:47.37\00:24:51.14
need to be in your
gut. Yes, I mean this is an
00:24:51.17\00:24:53.80
important concept.
So basically what we're
00:24:53.83\00:24:56.46
saying is, we're not saying
that there is never a place
00:24:56.49\00:24:58.83
for medication, that
you can't use drug therapy.
00:24:58.86\00:25:02.03
But what we're saying is when
I look at natural therapies,
00:25:02.06\00:25:06.08
many of them have less
side effects, less toxicities
00:25:06.62\00:25:10.16
then the pharmacological
agents, most people would
00:25:10.40\00:25:13.89
readily probably ascend
to the idea that it would be
00:25:13.92\00:25:17.01
nice to avoid surgery if
you didn't need it. Right.
00:25:17.04\00:25:19.32
Right. I mean as an orthopedic
00:25:19.35\00:25:20.69
surgeon did most
patients come to you hoping that
00:25:20.72\00:25:23.91
they would need
surgery or trying to avoid it,
00:25:23.94\00:25:26.39
or is it kind of a mix.
Well, we worry about the
00:25:26.42\00:25:28.82
ones that think they
need it all the time.
00:25:28.85\00:25:30.74
No, most of them
want to avoid it.
00:25:31.52\00:25:33.14
Okay so, so basically I
think most people resonate
00:25:33.17\00:25:36.71
with this concept.
And so when the studies
00:25:36.74\00:25:39.24
come out, do we look
at it at the beginning.
00:25:39.27\00:25:40.71
Problems with patient
compliance, problems with
00:25:40.99\00:25:43.00
doctor's compliance.
What the issue is doctors,
00:25:43.03\00:25:46.70
I think. Many of us are saying,
00:25:46.73\00:25:48.42
well! I am not sure that
I want to give every single
00:25:48.45\00:25:51.11
patient this drug even
though it helps certain
00:25:51.14\00:25:54.09
people with this condition.
Did you think that's part
00:25:54.12\00:25:55.94
of the dynamic that's
going on, or you think us as
00:25:55.97\00:25:57.81
physicians we just don't
know the literature out there.
00:25:57.84\00:26:00.19
No, I think you're
right and I think that's part
00:26:00.83\00:26:02.72
of the dynamic. One
other thing I was just thinking
00:26:02.75\00:26:04.97
about your strep
throat there. The patient
00:26:05.00\00:26:07.34
that always takes the
antibiotic to cure the
00:26:07.37\00:26:09.41
strep throat will eventually
have to have the antibiotic
00:26:09.44\00:26:13.12
to cure the strep
throat. Where as initially they
00:26:13.41\00:26:16.04
might have been able to
treat it without the antibiotic.
00:26:16.07\00:26:18.27
Because you're saying
their flora, their natural
00:26:18.70\00:26:20.69
good germs are so disrupted,
is that the implication.
00:26:20.72\00:26:23.25
Yes and because
their immune system is
00:26:23.28\00:26:25.58
weakened by the antibiotic.
00:26:25.61\00:26:27.34
So, they are not making
antibodies against invaders
00:26:27.87\00:26:30.60
because they're letting the
antibodies do the dirty work,
00:26:30.63\00:26:32.87
is that what
you're saying is going on.
00:26:32.90\00:26:34.85
Yes. Okay, so
it's not always bad
00:26:34.88\00:26:37.94
to fight off an infection.
Right, if your body can
00:26:37.97\00:26:40.95
fight off the infection
itself with hydrotherapy
00:26:40.98\00:26:43.79
with nature remedies
with charcoal and so forth,
00:26:43.82\00:26:46.20
then the next time the bug
comes around it has a memory.
00:26:46.94\00:26:49.80
It has learned how
to fight that antibiotic
00:26:49.83\00:26:51.88
and it will be. Fight the germ.
00:26:51.91\00:26:53.51
Fight the germ.
Sorry, yes, fight the germ.
00:26:53.54\00:26:55.56
And it will be more
prepared to do the next time.
00:26:55.59\00:26:58.46
So basic what we're
saying is one way to
00:26:59.13\00:27:01.36
kind of level the field
when it comes to research.
00:27:01.39\00:27:04.42
Is actually recognizing
that we may need to take a
00:27:04.45\00:27:07.43
a different
approach, a different look
00:27:07.46\00:27:09.19
at scientific research.
We do want a keep close
00:27:09.22\00:27:12.98
to what is sound
science. We do want to be aware
00:27:13.01\00:27:15.98
of what's being published
in the medical literature,
00:27:16.01\00:27:18.15
but we want to recognize
that many physicians as was
00:27:18.56\00:27:21.65
many patients are having
second thoughts about just
00:27:21.68\00:27:24.60
really newly applying
the "latest research when it
00:27:25.07\00:27:28.79
points us to more surgery
or more drug medications.
00:27:28.82\00:27:32.17
I think it's well to
remember that God gave us
00:27:32.84\00:27:36.42
a program of lifestyles,
we study the scriptures,
00:27:36.45\00:27:39.19
he does not just
tell that he loves us.
00:27:39.37\00:27:41.50
He does not just tell us
that we have a savior in Jesus,
00:27:41.53\00:27:44.08
but many times we read
there that God gives us
00:27:44.57\00:27:47.16
moral imperatives. He calls
us to live in a certain way,
00:27:47.19\00:27:50.27
read Paul's letters,
after assuring his listeners,
00:27:50.70\00:27:54.24
his audience if you
will. That what he is talking
00:27:54.27\00:27:57.43
about is the wonderful
grace of God, free salvation
00:27:57.46\00:28:00.44
of Christ. He says then,
go do this. As you learned
00:28:00.47\00:28:04.32
simple natural things, put them
00:28:04.35\00:28:06.01
into practice
and God will bless.
00:28:06.04\00:28:08.06