Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Lois Stuart, Rick Howard
Series Code: UC
Program Code: UC000412
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00:26 Hello and welcome to another edition of "Up Close"
00:29 We're coming to you from the Three Angels 7th Day Adventist 00:34 Church in Wichita, Kansas, 00:35 where we have a live audience participating with us 00:39 and we're happy that you're joining us too. 00:41 Our topic today fascinates many people and frightens others. 00:47 We will be examining the mysterious powers 00:50 and resources of the supernatural. 00:53 The practice of appealing to the paranormal 00:58 has become quite popularized by books, 01:01 mainstream television and movie productions. 01:05 It's interesting though these programs are produced 01:08 to make us laugh at the antics of witchcraft and sorcery 01:14 or to stir up our emotions as people receive messages 01:18 from beyond the grave and see into the spirit realm. 01:23 In today's society many people are dabbling with the occult 01:28 with no awareness that they are standing at the threshold 01:33 of a door that opens to a round of darkness and danger. 01:38 Curious and unsure of the future many resort to 01:43 consulting psychics, having their horoscopes or tarot cards 01:48 or even their palms read. 01:51 And even a quest for answers from weegee boards. 01:55 In pursuit of paranormal powers many are captivated by ESP 02:01 witchcraft, sorcery and even voodoo. 02:05 And in there are those who seek comfort 02:08 in supernatural solutions for the future. 02:11 Others have become absorbed in séances, necromancy, channeling 02:17 spirits, cabbala, new age and eastern mystique religions. 02:23 Some see the mysterious resources of the supernatural 02:28 as just harmless entertainment, mere fantasy. 02:33 Still others are seriously swayed by the council given 02:38 from those who claim supernatural powers to see 02:42 into the past and into the future. 02:45 So what is the truth? 02:47 Is dabbling with the supernatural a mere amusement? 02:51 Or are the powers claimed from the spirit realm genuine? 02:56 And, if so, and most importantly if so, what is the source 03:02 of these mystique powers. 03:04 Our first guest, Lois Stuart, is a happily married Bible worker 03:09 from Williston Park, New York. 03:10 Her sojourn into the spirit realm began without Bible 03:17 guidance. It all began when she was about 30 and thought that 03:20 she had a special gift. 03:22 A gift that brought her in contact with the supernatural. 03:27 Here's what he said when she sat down to talk with us. 03:31 I had a friend and we used to get together and she had 03:35 a friend who was a channeler, I was told, in England. 03:39 And whenever that person was going through something 03:43 I could tell my friend what that person was going through. 03:47 And that person later on, would write her a letter 03:49 and would tell her: This is what happened in my life 03:52 But I had already told her beforehand that I thought 03:55 this was something that I was able to imagine. 03:58 And I started with reading minds 04:03 People could think of things and I could tell them. 04:05 Specifically it was my brother and a friend of mine that I had. 04:09 I would tell them 'what are you thinking?' and they would think 04:13 of something and then I would tell them what it was. 04:15 My brother wanted to get very specific with me once, 04:18 so we had a family member who had died and he said 04:20 ' I'm thinking of someone and you have to tell me who it is. ' 04:22 cause he wanted to try to pinpoint 04:24 if this was real or what I was doing. 04:26 And I told him 'Yeah', and I saw him later that day 04:30 and I said 'It was our cousin, cousin Robbie' 04:33 and that's the person that it was. 04:35 So we thought now we really had it together. 04:38 At the same time I was involved with a gentleman 04:40 whose wife had died. 04:42 And I was in communication, I thought with her spirit. 04:46 That's what I was thinking at the time 'Well, I could even 04:50 connect with people who are no longer on this planet' 04:53 And I would be able to talk with her. 04:57 And from that point I could think in my mind that 05:03 I was hearing her voice, that she could tell me different 05:06 things to tell him, because she was dead already. 05:08 And he was a little bit leery of it too 05:11 and I was if it was really coming from her. 05:14 So, what we did was he dropped me off at a cemetery in Queens, 05:17 in New York, where I'm from 05:19 And he dropped me off on the corner and from what 05:21 I perceived to be able to hear her voice, 05:25 I walked up through a huge cemetery and I was able to 05:29 go and put my hand on the back of her grave stone just by 05:33 what I thought was her calling out to me. 05:35 And it started then people from the grave when I walked on by 05:38 grave stones I would think that I could hear people saying 05:41 things and giving messages. 05:43 And then it came to the point where 05:45 I started actually seeing people 05:47 When I would go into my living room 05:49 And it was all so nice, and I thought 05:51 'What a wonderful thing that I've tapped into here' 05:53 And they would be sitting in my living room sitting around 05:57 It was my grandmother, 05:58 sometimes it was other people I didn't know. 06:00 It was my friends mother who had died, just different people. 06:03 And I was thinking 'Wow, this is really nice' 06:06 They were smiling, they were happy, it was worm, it was good. 06:12 my aunt was over and this was her mother who had passed away. 06:17 She was sitting next to me and she goes: 06:20 'Do you ever hear from grandma?' 06:22 And I said: 'Grandma is right here, now' 06:24 And it wasn't like I was looking and it was like a solid figure, 06:29 but it wasn't transparent either It was kind of opaque. 06:36 And they were as I remembered them. 06:39 And I said 'Grandma is here, and she's sitting with a lady. 06:41 There's a lady that I don't know who she is, 06:43 but she has a black dress. ' 06:44 And my aunt told me: 'Well that's so funny because, 06:48 And this is something I didn't know 06:49 'My mom -which is her mom, my grandma- she always used to say 06:53 that there's a woman in a black dress following her around' 06:57 I said: 'Well, everything's fine with her, 06:59 she's happy and she loves you. ' 07:02 It would always be something warm like that. 07:06 It reminds me of a movie that was released not too long ago 07:09 about extrasensory perception. 07:12 Please help me welcome Lois Stuart to our program 07:23 Thank you for coming. 07:25 Thank you for having me here tonight. 07:26 I'm glad to be here. 07:28 We really appreciate you sharing your testimony. 07:33 So you thought that you had this special gift, 07:36 a 6th sense of some kind, right? 07:39 And in fact didn't you speak to a parapsychologist about this? 07:43 Yes. I had a friend who had cold up an institute or 07:46 something that had always been dealing with those things. 07:48 And he had told me that a lot of people come into, in about their 07:53 30's or that time in their life. 07:55 That they come into this gifts what they called it and that 07:58 I was probably just tapping into it at this point. 08:01 So this was all a very positive experience. 08:04 Yes, it was very positive. 08:05 Everything that I saw, was positive. 08:07 It was warm, it was friendly, it was happy and sometimes 08:12 the messages that I gave to people made them feel happy. 08:16 Cause they were able to communicate with people 08:19 who were no longer with them. 08:22 And they never gave you any fear? 08:25 It was always very bright, light, warm. 08:28 You know, a lovely experience. 08:31 Let me ask you this question. 08:32 Were you brought up in a Christian home? 08:36 Yes, I was raised a roman catholic. 08:39 The thing with that is mostly we believe that dead people 08:44 were in Heaven, and could look down on us. 08:48 And we believed that we could pray to saints 08:51 and we could pray to other things. 08:53 Thinking that way, it was very easy to me 08:55 to accept that people were there 08:58 Dead people, because they were just in another dimension 09:00 and they could come back and forth. 09:02 So that's what I believed at the time. 09:04 You were quite open to the spirit realm. 09:07 It wasn't scary, it wasn' something I was 09:10 frighten of at all. 09:11 I was very comfortable with it 09:13 But your brother had a totally different 09:15 outlook on this, didn't he? 09:17 My brother was a Christian man and he came with a pastor 09:22 to tell me that what I was doing just wasn't right. 09:25 That there was something wrong with what was going on. 09:28 I preceded to ask him and his pastor friend to leave my house 09:32 Because they were trying to take something that was 09:35 beautiful to me and making it very ugly. 09:37 And I couldn't understand why they wanted to do something 09:40 like that, because I told them it wasn't darkness 09:43 that I was dealing with. 09:44 I was dealing with light. 09:45 It wasn't a dark experience it was a light experience 09:48 and I've always associated what he was talking about 09:52 with demons and darkness and bad things and hurting people. 09:56 And I wasn't hurting anybody and this is helping people 10:00 and it was making them feel good 10:02 So I thought it was a positive thing. 10:04 Was anyone else in your family aware of what you were doing? 10:07 How about your mother? 10:08 My mother at first she didn't know what to think about it. 10:11 But then I found out later that my mother did start studying 10:13 the Bible and my mother was eventually baptized. 10:17 And that's the point when my mom came and gave a Bible to me, 10:20 and asked if I would read it. 10:24 She was in the Roman Catholic Church and then she came out 10:27 studying the Bible and then she was baptized 10:29 and she brought you a Bible. 10:31 It was actually me and my brother and she asked us 10:34 if we would just please read it. 10:35 And that's all she asked. 10:36 She said: 'All I'm asking you is if 10:38 you could, please read this book. ' 10:40 Wonderful. 10:41 Well, studying the Bible and talking with her brother, 10:43 Lois began to get a little bit uncomfortable with 10:47 her supernatural experiences and she wanted out. 10:50 But getting out was not as easy as getting in. 10:53 And soon she began to experience 10:55 a different side of the supernatural. 10:58 One that was not all that bright and warm. 11:01 Before she shares some of the horrifying experiences with us, 11:05 we will be talking to our expert guest, Rick Howard. 11:08 So please stay with us. We'll be right back. 11:18 We'll focus on a hidden problem that is becoming 11:20 more widespread among all age groups in our fast pace society. 11:25 And that would be 10 years tomorrow, 11:27 and there's been a lot of loneliness instead. 11:31 Loneliness is really a sense of isolation, 11:34 it's a sense of inner emptiness. 11:37 And focus on my relationship with the Lord, because 11:40 that is where ultimately you find your security and peace. 11:45 Next week on "Up Close" 11:48 Don't miss it. 12:04 Welcome back to "Up Close" I am pleased to introduce 12:07 our expert guest, pastor Rick Howard 12:10 from Hilton Head, South Carolina 12:12 What can a pastor tell us about mysticism and the occult 12:18 that goes beyond theory. 12:20 A lot, when he's speaking from personal experience. 12:24 Please help me welcome pastor Rick Howard. 12:33 Pastor, please tell me... Are these experiences real 12:37 or they're just a fantasy that's in someone's mind? 12:41 Good question. 12:42 And I think that's a question that all of us have. 12:46 You hear about this things and you wonder 12:48 'Is it real or is this person just imagining this?' 12:52 Well, for sure there are charlatans out there, 12:57 there are people who do tricks and magic and fake it. 13:03 On the other hand though, there are thousands and thousands of 13:07 people who've had an experience that they know is real. 13:14 When you had an experience like this, 13:16 you are the one that knows that it's real. 13:19 For instance if you had a psychic dream, 13:22 and that dream comes true, 13:24 you know that it was a real psychic dream. 13:27 Somebody else might say he's not sure about that. 13:32 But what's happening in the world today, 13:35 really thousands of people from all over the world 13:38 are having more and more of these experiences. 13:41 They know that what happened to them was real. 13:44 And what happens? 13:45 They start seeking each other out. 13:48 That's what happened to me. 13:49 You seek out other people who have had the same kinds 13:52 of experiences so that you could compare notes or whatever. 13:55 So, yes. There are real ones, there are fake ones, 13:59 but there are definitely real supernatural experiences 14:03 that people are having all over the world. 14:06 Lois, I have no doubt that you believed that everything 14:10 that was happening to you was real, because you were able to 14:14 test it by talking with someone else even if you had 14:18 an experience that you were channeling 14:21 the thoughts of a channeler. 14:22 Is that correct? 14:23 Yes, there was a channeler in London 14:25 and he was a friend of a friend. 14:28 And I've never met him, but I was able to tell her 14:31 the things that were going on in his life. 14:33 She would get a letter, like a week later, but I would have 14:36 told her everything that was in the letter. 14:38 She never talked with him and she would just get a letter 14:40 and she'd say: 'Everything that you said 14:42 was happening in his life. ' 14:43 He would be writing the letter, 14:45 and as he was probably in London writing the letter, 14:47 I was getting the message of what he was saying 14:49 and I was able to tell her. 14:51 So you never felt in any way like 'Am I loosing it?' 14:56 You never got frightened? 14:57 I thought it was a gift. 14:58 I thought it was a positive thing. 15:00 It was a very positive thing to me. 15:02 You know, it's interesting, because in Lois' case 15:04 she was actually, what I would call, seeing 15:08 into the spiritual realm. 15:11 Does science support this in any way? 15:16 Until recently, no. 15:18 But lately, yes. 15:22 Technology is advancing in such a phenomenal rate today. 15:26 We're learning so much. 15:27 And the equipment that we have to test the world around us 15:31 and see what's really happening has become so sophisticated, 15:35 so advanced that scientists today are actually detecting 15:39 evidence of other realms and other dimensions 15:42 beyond the one that we all function in every day. 15:45 I read an article recently, that was in a scientific journal 15:50 that said that physicists now believe that they have proved 15:55 that there are other dimensions that humans can not detect. 15:59 And it reminded me of ... I just thought of this. 16:04 Remember when Elijah's servant was fearful 16:08 because they were surrounded 16:10 and Elijah prayed and said: 16:12 'Lord, open his eyes, that he may see. ' 16:16 And God opened his eyes and he saw the angels 16:20 that were with them. 16:22 So essentially what I took from this article was that 16:26 there are dimensions right now where we sit in this building 16:31 that we can not see the certain spirit realm 16:36 or the other dimensions. 16:38 So would you say this would be just an educated guess. 16:42 But would you say that people who are like Lois 16:46 had somehow tapped into by some power they're tapping into that 16:52 other realm where they're actually seeing the spirits. 16:57 Something like that. 16:58 It's not that the person who experiences this is tapping into 17:02 it, it's that those powers that exist in the other realm 17:07 are coming through and contacting us. 17:11 That's very good. 17:12 It fools us to think that 'I've got the power' 17:17 We don't have any of that power. 17:19 But they have the power to reach through and contact us. 17:23 And that's part of the deception. 17:25 So all psychic phenomena, all of the supernatural things 17:29 that are taking place in this world are from 17:31 these other dimensions reaching through to our dimension 17:36 and making something happen that's not natural. 17:41 As we try to understand what is behind these experiences, 17:44 it is interesting to hear what people have gone through 17:48 as they are trying to get out of it. 17:51 Listen to what Lois went through 17:54 And then all of a sudden things started changing. 17:58 What was warm and a beautiful experience 18:00 all of a sudden started becoming a darker experience. 18:03 Ad I really didn't know what was going on with it. 18:05 I had started reading the Bible. 18:08 I was given the Bible and asked to study it. 18:11 And from that point, every once in a while, 18:15 something would happen. 18:18 It was like a presence. 18:20 It would be as I was walking down the hallway 18:22 or I was going into a room. 18:24 And it would feel like something would brush me. 18:26 I would want to draw back from it. 18:30 Then my brother told me that he didn't like the experience. 18:33 He didn't wanna do it anymore. 18:35 For some reason he was getting that this wasn't a right thing. 18:37 We shouldn't be doing this 18:38 He didn't feel comfortable with it anymore. 18:40 And while he was on the phone telling me that, 18:42 it was as if he had to put his hands up, he said. 18:45 Because it was like something came at him. 18:46 He couldn't physically see something, but he knew 18:49 that it was like something attacked him, 18:51 or was going to attack him and he had to stop it. 18:54 He said he actually put his hands up while he was talking 18:57 on the phone, telling me he didn't want to do this anymore. 19:01 And I thought 'Ok' 19:02 And then it started to, as I've said, all of a sudden 19:06 feel the presence of something like a dark figure or something 19:10 would brush up against me and I'd move back or I'd go around. 19:14 I didn't know what was going on. 19:16 And then I made a decision that I was going to come out of it. 19:19 That I wasn't going to do it anymore. 19:23 And as soon as I made that decision, I was in bed one night 19:26 I was awake, I was getting ready to go to sleep 19:33 and my whole room filled up with flames. 19:36 There were flames all over the whole entire room. 19:39 And it was terrifying. 19:41 And I thought 'What's going on?' 19:42 I had no idea what was going on. 19:44 And then all of the nice people that I used to see, 19:46 all of the smiling faces, all of the things that I thought were 19:50 my loved ones, people who I knew who had died, 19:55 all of a sudden appeared in this flames. 19:58 But they turned and all of a sudden they were demons. 20:02 And they were ugly, and they were horrible. 20:05 And they started just trying to grab me and poke at me. 20:09 And I was terrified. 20:11 And I put my hands all over my chest and I have been reading 20:14 the Bible, and I just kept saying: 20:16 'By the power and blood of Jesus Christ I am saved. ' 20:22 And I said it over and over again. 20:23 But it continued. 20:24 It was so intense that I wanted to get a hug from the person 20:29 who I was with so I leaned over and as I leaned over in the bed 20:34 his entire body was a wolf head. 20:37 A horrible giant wolf head 20:38 with red eyes, and a tongue and teeth. 20:42 And I screamed. 20:43 And I just kept saying it over 20:45 'Lord, if you don't save me I don't known what to do. ' 20:50 And I just kept repeating 20:53 'I'm saved by the power and blood of Jesus Christ. ' 20:57 I said it over and over again. And it subsided. 21:02 Everything withdrew from the presence that was there. 21:06 Shortly after that I was baptized. 21:09 I gave my life to Jesus Christ. 21:11 The person that was with me had no knowledge 21:13 of what was going on with me. 21:15 I know I screamed, but I never heard my scream. 21:18 What a frightening experience, Lois. 21:21 This reminds me of a scripture that says that Satan 21:24 and his angels masquerade as angels of light. 21:29 So suddenly you were really seeing the dark side of evil. 21:34 How did you come out of this, then? 21:37 It was terrifying when it first happened. 21:39 And I continued studying my Bible. 21:42 I remember especially looking at a text that was in Deuteronomy. 21:47 And it really touched my heart and my mind when I read it. 21:52 It's Deuteronomy 18, and it was 10 and 11. 21:59 And it goes: "There shall not be found among you anyone who 22:02 makes his son and daughter pass through the fire or one who 22:05 practices witchcraft, or soothsayers, or one who 22:08 interprets omens, or a sorcerer. 22:10 Or one who casts spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, 22:14 or one who calls up the dead. " 22:16 And I realized that's what I was doing. 22:18 And it says in the next verse that's an abomination to God. 22:23 And I thought: 'Wow. I love God. ' 22:25 I mean I was raised in faith, knowing about God and shouldn't 22:30 be doing something that was an abomination to Him. 22:33 When I saw what it was doing to me, it was turning, 22:37 everything was changing. 22:38 Absolutely. 22:40 So, pastor, when we talked about the powers that 22:43 were coming out of that realm and reaching out for us, 22:47 we know as a church that these powers are really evil powers. 22:52 Aren't they? 22:53 Yes. 22:55 The Bible, if we're gonna take the Bible as the Word of God, 22:58 it explains that there are fallen angels. 23:03 They made that choice. 23:04 They fell from that place that they had in Heaven originally. 23:09 And when you see the word demon in the Bible, 23:12 it's a fallen angel. 23:15 And they are at war with God, with the people of God 23:20 in this world. 23:22 The last thing that they wan is for you to make a decision 23:26 to follow Jesus, to search the Bible to find the truth. 23:32 You know, Lois, it was that very text in Deuteronomy, 23:34 chapter 18, that was because of the truth of that text that made 23:39 you say: I'm not gonna do this anymore. 23:41 I don't wanna do something that's an abomination to God. 23:46 So, that's what makes the Bible so important. 23:50 And these evil agencies that are out there, 23:52 they don't want us to look here. 23:54 They try to keep us away from that. 23:56 The question that's coming up in my mind is: 23:59 How did these evil spirits, when they are masquerading 24:02 as a loved one, 24:04 how did they know the things that are personal? 24:11 Lois shared an experience where a spirit was telling her 24:16 about grandma's teapot, that no one else could have known about. 24:20 How did they know that? 24:24 You can assume from scripture that they have the power 24:28 and the ability to look from their dimension 24:30 into our dimension. 24:32 And they're very good at keeping notes. 24:36 These are advanced beings, much more intelligent than we are 24:40 and they want this deception to be one that's believable. 24:45 So I can just imagine how many organizations they have 24:50 of keeping notes on individuals from generation to generation. 24:55 And then, the psychic comes along and has a dream about 25:00 a dead person and it turns out to be true. 25:05 It's not because of any power that the psychic had. 25:08 These evil powers give the dream, give the information 25:12 that's in it and they know everything about long lost 25:16 grandma that used to do this or used to do that. 25:20 And they pass that information on. 25:23 And in the psychic world, people think that 25:26 they have some kind of power to be able to read minds, 25:30 or to fortune tell the future or go back into somebody's life. 25:36 It's not really a power that they have. 25:38 They're being given that information from fallen angels 25:42 that have that information because they've been keeping 25:45 track of it for a long time. 25:47 That makes sense to me, because, have you ever noticed 25:49 that it seems like they're much better about telling things from 25:53 the past than they are about forecasting the future. 25:56 I mean that very rarely does it come true what they're actually 25:59 saying about the future. 26:01 But for example, I heard a story of a woman who lost her son 26:06 in the war and she woke up one night in her grief and her son 26:11 was appeared at the foot of her bed. 26:14 And he gave her the most loving message. 26:17 And she was so comforted by this message. 26:20 The next night, he came and he told her 26:22 Mom, don't worry, I'm in Heaven. 26:25 And everybody goes to Heaven. 26:27 You don't have to worry about things anymore. 26:30 It doesn't matter whether you're good or evil, 26:33 God is gonna save everyone. 26:37 That confused her a little bit, because she knew it was 26:40 against the Word of God 26:42 but she still felt that she had seen her loved one. 26:46 How do we know that that was not her loved one? 26:50 Good question. 26:51 Because this is a phenomena that is happening all over. 26:55 We've got cable TV programs of spirit mediums and 26:59 communication with the dead all the time. 27:01 And it seems like the whole world is really getting into it. 27:05 It's a comforting believe 27:08 to think that a lost loved one is OK. 27:14 And it's very easy to fool a person, because they wanna feel 27:20 good, they don't want to continue grieving. 27:23 They don't want the negative feelings that come along 27:25 with loosing a loved one. 27:28 So it's pretty easy to deceive people into thinking 27:32 that this is really them. 27:35 But again, I went through this experience myself. 27:39 I sat in a séance and a little child had a message for me. 27:44 And I had to go home that night. 27:47 that same text open in my Bible. 27:49 Deuteronomy 18, verse 10. That's when I read that. 27:55 It's a deception that people like to hear. 28:01 What we need to do is go to the Bible and find out what 28:04 does the Bible teach happens to a person when they die. 28:09 It's as simple as that. 28:11 I remember when I came out of this all thing, that's 28:13 the first thing that I wanted to know. 28:15 What does the Bible say about that? 28:19 The Bible says in over 200 places that the dead are dead. 28:30 It says that the dead know not anything. 28:35 It says that once you die, the people back on Earth 28:39 will never have anything to do with you ever again. 28:43 And that you'll never know anything that takes place 28:45 back on Earth. 28:47 That's in Ecclesiastes. 28:50 It says: "Whatever your hand finds to do, 28:53 do it with all your might, because there's no work, 28:58 there's no love, there's nothing in the grave where you go. " 29:03 This is a Bible versus that says dead know not anything. 29:07 In Psalm 146, verse 4 it says: 29:09 "In that very day, your thoughts perish" 29:14 If you die and your thoughts perish, 29:16 how can you come back and talk to somebody? 29:20 If the dead know not anything, how can they come back 29:23 and talk with you? 29:25 So it comes down to the question 29:28 Are we gonna believe this? 29:30 Or, are we gonna believe our eyes? 29:35 That's a pretty difficult choice sometimes. 29:37 For me, in the church that I grew up in, I was taught that 29:43 when we died, we went to Heaven. 29:45 And as I studied this out on my own, 29:48 I found out the truth from the Bible. 29:50 And what happened was that 29:55 I tried to share this truth with my sister. 29:58 And when I did, she said: 30:00 Don't you tell me that our mama is in heaven? 30:03 She's not just resting in her grave. 30:06 I refuse to listen to it. 30:08 So just recently I was talking with her and I was reading her 30:11 a scripture from John, chapter 5, that says: 30:21 "Do not be surprised and wonder at this, for the time is coming 30:25 when all those who are in the tombs shall hear His voice 30:30 and they shall come out. 30:32 Those who practice good will come out 30:35 to the resurrection of New Life. 30:38 And those who had done evil will be raised for judgment. " 30:43 So I was talking to my sister about the two resurrections that 30:48 the Bible refers to in Revelat. 20, verse 5 and she said: 30:53 Wait a minute. 30:55 What do you mean "they're gonna hear the voice 30:57 and they're in the grave"? 30:59 And I said: Well honey, you need to go read 31:02 1st Corinthians, chapter 15, that says: 31:05 "Man is mortal and we do not put on immortality 31:11 until the last trump. " 31:15 She absolutely got so upset with me, but she called back 31:19 about six hours later and she'd done a study on her own 31:24 with the concordance. 31:25 And she called me back and she said: 31:28 That's true. 31:29 And all this time I thought that the dead were in Heaven. 31:34 But the interesting thing about this that ties in with this 31:38 program, just two days later she was visiting with someone 31:42 who's husband had died and who began -the person was 31:49 involved in new age - began praying 31:52 And as the woman prayed, my sister related the story to me, 31:57 said that the room was filled, was just flooded with light 32:02 and a warm feeling came over her and she felt the presence 32:06 of this woman's husband. 32:09 And then she said: 32:11 And I realized that Satan was masquerading 32:15 as an angel of light. 32:17 And what was really going on, it was like she learned truth 32:21 just in time so that she would not be deceived. 32:25 That's amazing. 32:26 Can I share a couple of other verses that I've read 32:30 so many times but didn't think of it until I really studied 32:34 this subject out. 32:39 John, chapter 14. This is a famous text. 32:42 "Let not your heart be troubled" 32:45 Jesus says: "In my Father's house are many mansions; 32:48 If it were not so, I would have told you. 32:50 I go to prepare a place for you" 32:52 Think about this. 32:53 Jesus is saying: "I'm going to prepare a place for you" 32:56 He's talking to his disciples. 32:58 And He says: "And if I go and prepare a place for you, 33:01 I will come again and receive you unto myself so that 33:05 where I am, there ye may be also. " 33:07 Where was Jesus going? He was going to Heaven. 33:11 And He says: 'If I go to Heaven and prepare a place for you, 33:14 I will come back again - at the second coming, 33:18 when He comes back- and take you with me, 33:20 so that you can be there with me. ' 33:23 If the dead go to Heaven and stay there, 33:26 why does Jesus have to come back to get us for? 33:29 We're already there. 33:30 Amen. 33:32 Coming up next, we're going to have Rick Howard tell us about 33:35 his own encounter with the supernatural. 33:38 We'll be right back. 33:44 Is the occult really dangerous or is it just some magic act? 33:49 Can you contact other spirits? 33:51 If so, how do you know if they're good or evil? 33:53 Find answers to your questions while reading 33:55 "Questioning the Supernatural" 33:57 For your free gift, just write to us today at Up Close 34:03 Or call during regular business hours. 34:11 Ask for Up Close offer Nr.12. 34:26 Welcome back to Up Close. 34:28 Today we're talking about the dangers of the supernatural 34:31 and our expert guest is Rick Howard 34:33 from Hilton Head, South Carolina 34:36 Rick, I know that you have personal experience in this area 34:40 and you mentioned me earlier there are certain things that 34:43 people can do 34:45 that actually open the doors to this type of experience. 34:50 Could you explain that from your own experience? 34:52 Sure. 34:56 What happened in my situation was that, I just began having 35:01 some of what's called "out-of-body experiences". 35:06 I didn't know what they were. 35:08 At first I almost thought 'Am I dreaming this?' 35:13 But time and time again for a number of years I would have 35:17 this experience of leaving my body of experiencing ... 35:24 I don't know how to say it... 35:25 It's like a vibration through your body, a low voltage 35:28 electricity running through it. 35:31 I don't think that I've ever talked to a crowd of people 35:33 where there aren't some people there that say: 35:35 Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. 35:37 It's happened to me. 35:39 You weak up from a sleep, or you fall asleep and 35:42 you come back and you weak up and you feel this power 35:46 all over your body. 35:48 But you can't move. You're paralyzed. 35:51 You're mind is awake and you can pull your eyes open, 35:54 but meanwhile this electricity is flowing through you. 35:59 This happened to me all over and over and over again. 36:01 I never knew what it was. 36:02 I thought I had epilepsy or something. 36:04 But eventually, I noticed that I actually had an experience 36:10 of separating from my body when this happened. 36:14 And when I picked up a book... 36:19 This was the first time I thought spiritually about it. 36:22 I picked up a book that was entitled 36:24 "Journeys Out Of The Body" by a man named dr. Robert Monroe 36:28 And this book was filled with experiences that he had 36:31 with astral projection. 36:33 And he went on to describe the physical sensations and 36:36 how it happened to him and I was like I was reading exactly 36:40 what was happening to me. 36:43 This really got me to think. 36:44 Wait a minute. 36:45 There's a part of me that can separate from my body? 36:49 Is that the soul? 36:51 This was my thinking at that point. 36:53 And then I was just overwhelmed. 36:56 I became totally obsessed with finding out the truth about life 37:01 I said that if this is true, if this is really happening, 37:05 I wanna know what life is all about. 37:06 Why am I here? 37:09 Where am I going when I die? 37:10 What is this power? 37:12 Does it happen to other people? 37:14 So I started searching. 37:16 And my search naturally led me into those other religions and 37:19 philosophies in the world that incorporate the supernatural. 37:23 Cause that's what was happening to me. 37:25 And I started studying into the occult, 37:29 winded up going through mind control, spiritualism. 37:33 And spiritualism was frightening 37:36 Could you explain for our guests what spiritualism is? 37:40 Spiritualism is a word that covers everything, 37:44 but the spiritualism that I'm talking about here 37:48 is communication with the dead, séances, 37:51 communicating with a spirit that gives you information 37:55 that you can share with others. 37:57 I was told when I went to the spirit medium that 38:00 I was gonna be a spirit medium. 38:02 That I have the same ability. 38:04 Which kind of works on your ego. 38:06 But again, it has nothing to do with us folks. 38:10 It is not any power that we have, but they fool you 38:13 into thinking that it is some kind of a power, 38:16 that you're gifted, that you're special. 38:19 I got involved with it. 38:21 I went to a séance. 38:23 I was involved with other psychics that did all kinds of 38:28 things from psychic dreams to levitation, to mind reading. 38:33 And they all did it. 38:34 And I can tell you that they did it. 38:38 But I was there and I know that they did it. 38:41 And I got nervous. 38:43 I got nervous with this form of supernatural. 38:48 I was convicted in my heart that I was a sinner. 38:51 I wanted to know the truth more than anything else in life. 38:55 The truth. I didn't wanna be fooled. 38:56 I felt: 'How do I know that this is from God?' 38:59 I know the power is real but what if it's not God? 39:02 What if it's some other kind of a power 39:04 and I'm being deceived into it? 39:06 Oh, and I prayed 4-5 hours a day for five years, 39:13 pleading with God to lead me to the truth. 39:16 I would pray to Buddha, I would pray to Krishna, 39:19 I would pray to Mohammed, to Jesus. 39:21 I said: 'I don't know who you are, 39:23 but I want to know the truth. 39:25 I don't wanna be fooled anymore' 39:26 During that five year period, I studied. 39:30 I read everything, every spiritual book that was 39:32 available, that you could get your hands on. 39:36 I'd spend 6-7 hours a night reading to 3 o'clock 39:39 in the morning, 4 o'clock in the morning. 39:41 I'd pray for hours every day, 39:43 wanting to know what the truth was. 39:45 And one of the main reasons that I prayed was that I wanted 39:48 to stop doing the things that 39:50 I was doing in my life that I knew were sinful. 39:54 This all came in real handy later on, because I had 39:57 a lot of information, I did a lot of study, 39:59 I left the spiritualism alone, 40:01 I said I'm not going back to that medium again. 40:05 And two weeks later I was 40:06 the disciple of a guru in New York City. 40:09 You've probably heard of the rock'n'roll star Santana. 40:12 He and I were in the same group, with the same guru. 40:15 We'd meet twice a week. 40:17 Sunday night and Thursday night we'd go to the ashram. 40:21 And the way that I knew that I was to be a disciple 40:24 of this guru was that when I took his picture home, 40:26 when I meditated on it, 40:29 I stopped breathing for I don't know how long. 40:32 Flames and fire shot out of the picture. 40:34 Same kind of experience that Lois had. 40:38 This was an experience that, I was told, 40:41 meant that he was to be my savior. 40:44 My guru - not just a guru, but a savior. 40:47 So you were instructed to meditate over with this picture. 40:50 Right. 40:51 And this lasted about a year. 40:54 And no matter what question I had for them, 40:58 there was always an answer. 40:59 The answer always disagreed with what I was studying 41:01 in the Bible. 41:02 I was reading the Bible, trying to figure out what the truth was 41:05 He told me he was my savior, this guru. 41:08 And that he was taking my karma. 41:10 All the negative things that I have in my life 41:13 he was taking upon himself to free me 41:15 so that I could go to the next realm of existence. 41:22 But I got to the place with Hinduism where I said: 41:28 'I can't do this anymore. ' 41:30 I read Acts 4, verse 12, that said: 41:31 "There's no other name given among man, 41:33 whereby we can be saved. " 41:35 He told me he was my savior. 41:37 And the Bible says only Jesus is my savior. 41:41 So I finally quit. 41:43 I said: 'That's it. ' 41:45 God, I've been searching for the truth for five years. 41:49 I almost had one nervous breakdown. 41:50 Now I feel it coming on again. 41:53 And I said: 'I know that you're real. ' 41:56 'I know you're there, but I don't know who you are. ' 41:58 But I quit searching. 42:01 I'm not gonna look anymore. I know that you are real. 42:05 You take over my life and You lead me to the truth. 42:09 Cause I can't find out what it is. 42:11 Every time I go down a road, it's a dead end. 42:14 So I said: 42:15 'God, I'm yours and you know I want this more than life itself' 42:19 And I did. 42:20 If I couldn't find the truth, God knows I wanted to die. 42:24 I wasn't willing to continue. It was a real struggle. 42:28 It was only three weeks later 42:30 that I moved next door to a minister. 42:33 And I knew that God led me there. 42:36 And when I told him the story he was smiling from ear to ear. 42:41 He knew that God led me there, too. 42:43 And we began to study the Bible together. 42:45 And I went ahead and I accepted Christ. 42:48 Immediately, the Bible turned into a book 42:52 that was just unbelievable. 42:53 Every question that I ever had about life and death, 42:55 and who we are and where we're going when we die 42:58 and where we come from and what's the purpose of existence. 43:00 Every question was being answered in the book. 43:03 And I said: 'I can't believe this. ' 43:05 It was because I had accepted Jesus and the Holy Spirit 43:08 was now feeding my mind rather than me trying 43:12 to figure things out with my carnal mind. 43:15 So God was good to me. 43:18 I wanted to know then, what is this power all about. 43:23 I was fooled by it, I was deceived by it, 43:26 even after I had accepted Christ 43:29 For a whole year, the Devil would try to kill me. 43:32 I'd wake up in the middle of the night with my whole body 43:34 being pushed down through the bed. 43:36 I couldn't breathe. 43:37 And I went to bed every night with the Bible in my hands. 43:41 And I'd wake up and claim the promises in this Bible. 43:46 "The angel of the Lord encampeth round about those 43:48 that love him, and delivers them. " 43:51 I would say that, I would quote that text and immediately 43:54 the forces, the power that was trying to take my life 43:58 would just disappear. 43:59 And I know that if my eyes were open like Elijah's, 44:01 that I would have seen heavenly angels 44:03 fighting with these evil angels that were trying to affect me, 44:08 even though I had accepted Jesus 44:09 And I often wondered why. Why did this continue? 44:14 And I think that this is such a dangerous deception 44:17 in the world today. 44:18 Spiritualism,the supernatural is so dangerous that God actually 44:23 allowed the effects it to continue in my life to teach me 44:27 'Don't ever fool around with this again!' 44:29 Don't ever fool around with it again! 44:31 Leave it alone! 44:32 Well, I did. I left it alone. 44:36 And those experiences stopped there for about a year 44:38 a year and a half or something like that. 44:41 And I determined to find out what is it that makes this work. 44:45 And as I studied into it, as I studied all the religions that 44:50 exist in the world, that use the supernatural, meditation 44:55 Meditation was the common thread that run through everything. 44:59 Whether it was Christian mysticism, cabbala, 45:03 eastern religions, Hinduism, psychic phenomena or the New 45:09 Age movement, meditation was always involved. 45:13 And here's what I've learned. 45:16 There's a level of consciousness called the "Alpha State". 45:21 It's when we are in the "Alpha State" when our consciousness is 45:25 at that level that those powers that are in the other realm 45:29 can reach through to us. 45:32 You can go into the "Alpha State" in lots of different ways 45:35 You can do it by watching T.V. 45:37 As a matter of fact, if you're watching T.V. 45:39 and you're staring at it... 45:41 Did you ever have that experience when somebody 45:43 walks between you and the T.V. and you didn't even see them? 45:47 You're in the "Alpha State". 45:49 When you're falling asleep and you drop the pencil, 45:54 you've fallen actually below the "Alpha State". 45:57 So the "Alpha State" is when 46:00 you're still consciously aware of things. 46:03 You can get there from being asleep and come up 46:05 into the "Alpha State", and dream. 46:08 Or you can get there through meditation, 46:11 going down from the conscious state that we're all in right 46:14 now going down into it. 46:16 But please explain this. 46:18 The Bible says to meditate on the Word. 46:19 You're not talking about that type of meditation? 46:22 You're talking about a meditation where 46:23 you're emptying your mind. 46:25 Sort of. 46:27 The "meditation" in the Bible is really "contemplation". 46:30 Contemplate the Word of God. Think about it. 46:33 The kind of meditation that alters your consciousness is 46:38 that you try not to think about anything except one thing, 46:43 or visualize with the mind's eye one thing 46:48 and sustain that mental picture. 46:51 This is the fastest way and the most successful way 46:53 to go into the "Alpha State". 46:56 By sustaining a mental picture. 46:58 There's a lot of people doing guided imagery today where 47:01 they tell you to close your eyes and they'll take you on 47:04 a little trip and you imagine things. 47:07 Folks, we've got to be very careful about stuff like that, 47:10 because it will take you right into the "Alpha State". 47:13 And you may not be happy with what you see there. 47:17 You may not even realize that you're seeing something there 47:20 that is not from God. 47:23 And you can be fooled doing that. 47:29 So the whole process of meditation gets you to focus 47:33 on one thing to the exclusion of everything else. 47:36 And you can do it through New Age music. 47:39 That will do it. You listen to that music. 47:42 It's a very focusing music. It catches you. 47:45 You just listen to it and you're waiting for it to reach a climax 47:50 But it never reaches a climax. 47:51 I don't know if you have ever listened to New Age music. 47:54 It kind o f lifts you, and lifts you, but it never gets there. 47:59 And that's a focusing thing. 48:00 So when you listen to that kind of music, 48:02 it's bringing you into that "Alpha State". 48:05 When you smoke marijuana... 48:07 Marijuana chemically brings you into the "Alpha State". 48:11 The Christian mystiques 48:17 write about this experience that they had. 48:21 They talk about their thoughts coming to a stop in their mind. 48:29 When you meditate, the whole idea is to bring you into 48:32 the "Alpha State" and also slow down the thoughts. 48:37 Right now, if you're wide awake thoughts will flip 48:41 across your consciousness at 15 or 20 per second. 48:46 Like that. 48:48 And you reach out and grab a thought, 48:51 and as soon as you grab a thought, you automatically 48:53 attract thoughts related to that one. 48:56 And then thoughts related to that one and that one... 48:59 And that's how our mind works. 49:01 It just goes in that direction. 49:03 The idea in meditation is to slow those thoughts down, 49:07 and eventually bring them to a stop. 49:10 And that happens through focusing. 49:13 Focusing the mind, creating a mental picture, 49:16 holding it up in your mind. 49:19 It also happens from smoking marijuana. 49:22 Marijuana chemically slows the thoughts down. 49:25 That's why people who have done marijuana 49:28 realize that there's a time walk involved. 49:30 Time doesn't seem to pass normally. 49:33 So, essentially when you've slowed down like that 49:36 you've opened yourself up. 49:37 That's right. 49:38 We don't want to be sitting around going ... 49:45 Coming up next we are going to take some questions from 49:48 our live audience. 49:49 So please stay with us. 49:57 We'll focus on a hidden problem that is becoming 49:59 more widespread among all age groups in our fast pace society. 50:04 And that will be 10 years, tomorrow 50:07 and there's been a lot of loneliness instead. 50:10 Loneliness is really a sense of isolation. 50:13 It's a sense of inner emptiness. 50:16 ...and focus on my relationship with the Lord. 50:19 Because that ultimately is where you really find 50:21 the security and peace. 50:24 Next week on Up Close: 50:26 Don't miss it! 50:44 Welcome back to Up Close. 50:46 We're talking today about the dangers of the supernatural. 50:49 We're now going to take some questions from our audience. 50:52 Please tell us your name and your question. 50:55 My name's Lyn Gallagher and I wanted to know 50:58 what is to keep the supernatural from contacting me 51:01 if I don't want it to? 51:03 That's a good question. 51:06 Unfortunately, if we don't make a decision, I believe this, 51:11 if we don't make a decision to follow Jesus and be protected 51:18 by heavenly angels because we've made the decision 51:23 to be a part of His Kingdom, 51:25 I think automatically many of us then would be open 51:28 to the negative influences of the supernatural 51:31 whether we want to or not. 51:34 And that's the difficult part of this whole decision. 51:38 Once you know the truth, the decision has to be made. 51:43 So for a person who doesn't know anything about anything, 51:47 they need to, if they have an experience like this, 51:49 to start searching so that they can try to 51:52 find out what's happening. 51:54 But I would say that accepting Jesus and the protection of 51:58 Heaven is the only way that we can protect ourselves. 52:02 What if you're a Christian and you still feel like 52:05 someone's trying to come against you. 52:08 What do you do then? 52:10 You've got to turn it over to Jesus again. 52:15 Maybe it means that you need to more fully surrender 52:18 in your life. 52:19 That there's still something in your life that you're holding 52:22 on to that is allowing 52:24 this fallen angels to still have access to you. 52:29 A scripture that came through my mind when you said that. 52:32 The Bible says: 52:33 "In your anger do not send a do not give the devil a foot hold." 52:37 There are things even as Christians, believers in Christ, 52:42 that sometimes we need to examine our hearts 52:44 and see what's going on. 52:45 But we always need to remember 1st John 4, 4: 52:47 "Greater is he who's in me than he who is in the world. " 52:51 And just pray to the Lord. 52:56 And it's the Lord and His Army that will protect us. 53:00 And if it does happen, if something does ... 53:02 I have experiences once in a while 53:04 were I know that Satan's hand is in it. 53:08 Not necessarily supernatural, but it could be something else. 53:12 And I have to rededicate myself to God 53:15 and to accept all over again the promises that He has made. 53:19 Hi! Please tell us your name and your question. 53:21 My name is Kailua and my question is that... 53:26 I have family way back in Africa and I live here 53:32 and there are days that I'm not particularly sad or unhappy 53:38 about things, but I might wake up with a feeling just withdrawn 53:45 and thinking there's something back home that's wrong. 53:49 And then eventually I would call back home 53:51 and talked to one of the family members 53:53 and I would find out that something was wrong. 53:55 Just somebody had passed away 53:57 or something was wrong within the family. 54:01 And I just wanted to know if that was a supernatural contact 54:06 or if it's just something that's within me that I just perceive 54:11 as being wrong and then it's just a coincidence that happens. 54:16 Good question. 54:17 I wouldn't think that it's just something in you. 54:22 It is supernatural. 54:24 But God does supernatural things too. 54:26 So the question is: 54:27 Is it God that's giving me this feeling that I need to check 54:32 back at home or is it some other power? 54:35 And what comes of it? How often does it happen? 54:39 I think all of us have had experiences 54:42 where we could say: 'This is not natural' 54:45 But it wasn't evil. 54:47 Nothing bad came of it. 54:50 And God tells us things too. 54:53 He's got His Army and His Angels that are around us 54:56 and can influence us that way. 54:58 So I would just say not to get upset over it. 55:02 But if it happens all the time, then be concerned about it. 55:09 Thank you for your question. 55:11 We just really want to thank our guests today, 55:14 Lois Stewart and Rick Howard. 55:16 And Rick, we've just got a short time. 55:19 I was wondering if you could take just a couple of minutes 55:21 and give us some of your final thoughts. 55:27 Folks, there's a God in Heaven. 55:32 There's a Heaven to win and a hell to shun. 55:36 And we're living in a world where time is winding down. 55:42 Everything is gonna become more and more intense 55:46 as time goes by. 55:47 And you can feel that. 55:48 I can feel that right now in the world 55:50 what's happening everywhere. 55:52 It's like good is getting better but evil is getting more evil. 55:58 And the kind of things that have taken place in the past 56:01 when we sit back and say: 56:02 "How could human beings have done that?" 56:05 They're doing it again now. 56:07 It's like the world is coming again into some final eruption. 56:12 And there is no hope for anybody without Jesus Christ. 56:19 He came to this world. 56:21 The Father sent Him because He loved us. 56:25 Jesus came to this world to save us. 56:29 And He says: ' I've given you a book. ' 56:33 If you will look into this book prayerfully, 56:37 if you will really determine in your mind 56:41 to learn the teachings that are in here, I will be with you, 56:44 I will reveal the truth to you. 56:47 If you're willing to put aside 56:49 all these old philosophies that you used to have. 56:52 Go brand new. 56:53 Go to the Bible like a babe and begin to study it. 56:57 And the true teachings about life and death and salvation 57:03 and evil and eternity and hell 57:07 and all of this stuff, they're all in here. 57:10 But we have to lay aside our own vain philosophies 57:14 and our own thoughts and we need to just be able to 57:19 go to this book with faith in God and trust in Him 57:24 and He will lead us through this final maze 57:27 that's coming up on the world. 57:29 Thank you, Rick. Amen. 57:32 I was thinking. Ephesians 6, 12 tells us: 57:35 "Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but 57:38 it is against the powers and the principalities of the err. " 57:42 And what you were just saying, Rick, made me remember 57:45 this scripture from 2nd Thessalonians. 57:48 And it's in chapter 2 and I'm gonna begin with verse 9. 57:53 It says: "The coming of the lawless one 57:55 is through the activity and working of Satan 57:59 and will be attended by great power 58:03 and with all sorts of pretended miracles and signs 58:09 and delusive marvels, all of them lying wonders. 58:15 And by unlimited seduction to evil, with all wicked deception 58:22 for those who are perishing because -this tells us why 58:28 people perish- they did not welcome the truth, but refuse 58:35 to love it that they might be saved. " 58:39 Jesus said that if we would abide in the truth 58:44 and if His Word abides in us, we will know the truth, 58:49 and the truth will set us free. 58:52 And whom the son of God has set free is free indeed. 58:56 Thank you so much for joining us tonight. 58:58 And Rick, thank you. 59:00 You're welcome. God bless! |
Revised 2014-12-17