Hello and welcome to
another edition of "Up Close"
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We're coming to you from the
Three Angels 7th Day Adventist
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Church in Wichita, Kansas,
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where we have a live
audience participating with us
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and we're happy that
you're joining us too.
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Our topic today fascinates many
people and frightens others.
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We will be examining
the mysterious powers
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and resources of
the supernatural.
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The practice of
appealing to the paranormal
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has become quite
popularized by books,
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mainstream television
and movie productions.
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It's interesting though
these programs are produced
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to make us laugh at the
antics of witchcraft and sorcery
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or to stir up our emotions
as people receive messages
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from beyond the grave and
see into the spirit realm.
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In today's society many people
are dabbling with the occult
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with no awareness that they
are standing at the threshold
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of a door that opens to a
round of darkness and danger.
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Curious and unsure of
the future many resort to
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consulting psychics, having
their horoscopes or tarot cards
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or even their palms read.
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And even a quest for
answers from weegee boards.
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In pursuit of paranormal powers
many are captivated by ESP
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witchcraft,
sorcery and even voodoo.
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And in there are
those who seek comfort
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in supernatural
solutions for the future.
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Others have become absorbed in
séances, necromancy, channeling
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spirits, cabbala, new age
and eastern mystique religions.
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Some see the mysterious
resources of the supernatural
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as just harmless
entertainment, mere fantasy.
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Still others are seriously
swayed by the council given
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from those who claim
supernatural powers to see
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into the past
and into the future.
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So what is the truth?
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Is dabbling with the
supernatural a mere amusement?
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Or are the powers claimed
from the spirit realm genuine?
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And, if so, and most importantly
if so, what is the source
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of these mystique powers.
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Our first guest, Lois Stuart, is
a happily married Bible worker
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from Williston Park, New York.
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Her sojourn into the
spirit realm began without Bible
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guidance. It all began when she
was about 30 and thought that
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she had a special gift.
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A gift that brought her in
contact with the supernatural.
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Here's what he said when
she sat down to talk with us.
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I had a friend and we used
to get together and she had
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a friend who was a channeler,
I was told, in England.
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And whenever that person
was going through something
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I could tell my friend what
that person was going through.
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And that person later
on, would write her a letter
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and would tell her: This
is what happened in my life
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But I had already told
her beforehand that I thought
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this was something
that I was able to imagine.
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And I started with reading minds
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People could think of
things and I could tell them.
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Specifically it was my brother
and a friend of mine that I had.
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I would tell them 'what are you
thinking?' and they would think
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of something and then I
would tell them what it was.
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My brother wanted to get
very specific with me once,
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so we had a family
member who had died and he said
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' I'm thinking of someone and
you have to tell me who it is. '
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cause he wanted
to try to pinpoint
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if this was real
or what I was doing.
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And I told him 'Yeah',
and I saw him later that day
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and I said 'It was
our cousin, cousin Robbie'
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and that's the
person that it was.
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So we thought now we
really had it together.
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At the same time I was
involved with a gentleman
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whose wife had died.
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And I was in communication,
I thought with her spirit.
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That's what I was thinking
at the time 'Well, I could even
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connect with people who
are no longer on this planet'
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And I would be
able to talk with her.
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And from that point I
could think in my mind that
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I was hearing her voice,
that she could tell me different
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things to tell him,
because she was dead already.
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And he was a
little bit leery of it too
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and I was if it was
really coming from her.
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So, what we did was he dropped
me off at a cemetery in Queens,
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in New York, where I'm from
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And he dropped me off
on the corner and from what
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I perceived to be
able to hear her voice,
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I walked up through a
huge cemetery and I was able to
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go and put my hand on the
back of her grave stone just by
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what I thought was
her calling out to me.
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And it started then people from
the grave when I walked on by
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grave stones I would think
that I could hear people saying
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things and giving messages.
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And then it came
to the point where
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I started actually seeing people
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When I would go
into my living room
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And it was all so
nice, and I thought
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'What a wonderful thing
that I've tapped into here'
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And they would be sitting in
my living room sitting around
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It was my grandmother,
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sometimes it was
other people I didn't know.
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It was my friends mother who
had died, just different people.
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And I was thinking
'Wow, this is really nice'
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They were smiling, they were
happy, it was worm, it was good.
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my aunt was over and this was
her mother who had passed away.
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She was sitting
next to me and she goes:
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'Do you ever hear from grandma?'
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And I said:
'Grandma is right here, now'
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And it wasn't like I was looking
and it was like a solid figure,
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but it wasn't transparent
either It was kind of opaque.
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And they were as
I remembered them.
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And I said 'Grandma is here,
and she's sitting with a lady.
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There's a lady that I
don't know who she is,
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but she has a black dress. '
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And my aunt told me:
'Well that's so funny because,
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And this is
something I didn't know
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'My mom -which is her mom, my
grandma- she always used to say
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that there's a woman in a black
dress following her around'
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I said: 'Well,
everything's fine with her,
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she's happy and she loves you. '
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It would always be
something warm like that.
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It reminds me of a movie that
was released not too long ago
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about extrasensory perception.
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Please help me welcome
Lois Stuart to our program
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Thank you for coming.
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Thank you for
having me here tonight.
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I'm glad to be here.
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We really appreciate
you sharing your testimony.
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So you thought that
you had this special gift,
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a 6th sense of some kind, right?
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And in fact didn't you speak to
a parapsychologist about this?
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Yes. I had a friend who
had cold up an institute or
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something that had always
been dealing with those things.
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And he had told me that a lot of
people come into, in about their
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30's or that time in their life.
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That they come into this gifts
what they called it and that
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I was probably just
tapping into it at this point.
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So this was all a
very positive experience.
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Yes, it was very positive.
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Everything that I
saw, was positive.
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It was warm, it was friendly,
it was happy and sometimes
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the messages that I gave to
people made them feel happy.
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Cause they were able
to communicate with people
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who were no longer with them.
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And they never
gave you any fear?
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It was always very
bright, light, warm.
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You know, a lovely experience.
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Let me ask you this question.
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Were you brought up
in a Christian home?
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Yes, I was
raised a roman catholic.
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The thing with that is mostly
we believe that dead people
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were in Heaven, and
could look down on us.
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And we believed that
we could pray to saints
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and we could
pray to other things.
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Thinking that way,
it was very easy to me
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to accept that people were there
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Dead people, because they
were just in another dimension
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and they could
come back and forth.
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So that's what I
believed at the time.
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You were quite open
to the spirit realm.
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It wasn't scary, it
wasn' something I was
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frighten of at all.
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I was very comfortable with it
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But your brother
had a totally different
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outlook on this, didn't he?
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My brother was a Christian
man and he came with a pastor
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to tell me that what I
was doing just wasn't right.
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That there was something
wrong with what was going on.
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I preceded to ask him and his
pastor friend to leave my house
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Because they were trying
to take something that was
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beautiful to me and
making it very ugly.
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And I couldn't understand
why they wanted to do something
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like that, because I
told them it wasn't darkness
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that I was dealing with.
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I was dealing with light.
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It wasn't a dark experience
it was a light experience
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and I've always associated
what he was talking about
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with demons and darkness and
bad things and hurting people.
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And I wasn't hurting anybody
and this is helping people
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and it was making them feel good
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So I thought it
was a positive thing.
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Was anyone else in your family
aware of what you were doing?
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How about your mother?
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My mother at first she didn't
know what to think about it.
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But then I found out later that
my mother did start studying
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the Bible and my mother
was eventually baptized.
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And that's the point when my
mom came and gave a Bible to me,
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and asked if I would read it.
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She was in the Roman Catholic
Church and then she came out
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studying the Bible
and then she was baptized
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and she brought you a Bible.
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It was actually me and
my brother and she asked us
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if we would just please read it.
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And that's all she asked.
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She said: 'All
I'm asking you is if
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you could,
please read this book. '
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Wonderful.
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Well, studying the Bible
and talking with her brother,
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Lois began to get a
little bit uncomfortable with
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her supernatural
experiences and she wanted out.
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But getting out was
not as easy as getting in.
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And soon she began to experience
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a different side
of the supernatural.
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One that was not all
that bright and warm.
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Before she shares some of the
horrifying experiences with us,
00:11:01.80\00:11:05.14
we will be talking to our
expert guest, Rick Howard.
00:11:05.17\00:11:08.44
So please stay with
us. We'll be right back.
00:11:08.78\00:11:11.23
We'll focus on a hidden
problem that is becoming
00:11:18.26\00:11:20.71
more widespread among all age
groups in our fast pace society.
00:11:20.75\00:11:25.15
And that would be
10 years tomorrow,
00:11:25.18\00:11:27.74
and there's been a
lot of loneliness instead.
00:11:27.78\00:11:31.13
Loneliness is really
a sense of isolation,
00:11:31.17\00:11:34.49
it's a sense of inner emptiness.
00:11:34.52\00:11:37.05
And focus on my relationship
with the Lord, because
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that is where ultimately you
find your security and peace.
00:11:40.07\00:11:44.59
Next week on "Up Close"
00:11:45.51\00:11:47.18
Don't miss it.
00:11:48.41\00:11:49.46
Welcome back to "Up
Close" I am pleased to introduce
00:12:04.31\00:12:07.65
our expert guest,
pastor Rick Howard
00:12:07.68\00:12:10.18
from Hilton Head, South Carolina
00:12:10.21\00:12:12.44
What can a pastor tell us
about mysticism and the occult
00:12:12.79\00:12:18.61
that goes beyond theory.
00:12:18.64\00:12:20.14
A lot, when he's speaking
from personal experience.
00:12:20.18\00:12:24.02
Please help me
welcome pastor Rick Howard.
00:12:24.05\00:12:27.15
Pastor, please tell me...
Are these experiences real
00:12:33.93\00:12:37.58
or they're just a fantasy
that's in someone's mind?
00:12:37.61\00:12:41.23
Good question.
00:12:41.80\00:12:42.77
And I think that's a
question that all of us have.
00:12:42.78\00:12:44.98
You hear about this
things and you wonder
00:12:46.70\00:12:48.43
'Is it real or is this
person just imagining this?'
00:12:48.47\00:12:52.50
Well, for sure there
are charlatans out there,
00:12:52.53\00:12:57.48
there are people who do
tricks and magic and fake it.
00:12:57.52\00:13:03.12
On the other hand though, there
are thousands and thousands of
00:13:03.92\00:13:07.92
people who've had an experience
that they know is real.
00:13:07.95\00:13:13.86
When you had an
experience like this,
00:13:14.49\00:13:16.26
you are the one that
knows that it's real.
00:13:16.30\00:13:18.55
For instance if you
had a psychic dream,
00:13:19.64\00:13:21.99
and that dream comes true,
00:13:22.54\00:13:24.54
you know that it was
a real psychic dream.
00:13:24.58\00:13:27.26
Somebody else might say
he's not sure about that.
00:13:27.75\00:13:30.85
But what's
happening in the world today,
00:13:32.49\00:13:34.31
really thousands of
people from all over the world
00:13:35.35\00:13:38.10
are having more and
more of these experiences.
00:13:38.13\00:13:40.85
They know that what
happened to them was real.
00:13:41.40\00:13:44.07
And what happens?
00:13:44.44\00:13:45.70
They start
seeking each other out.
00:13:45.74\00:13:48.06
That's what happened to me.
00:13:48.84\00:13:49.81
You seek out other people
who have had the same kinds
00:13:49.82\00:13:52.75
of experiences so that you
could compare notes or whatever.
00:13:52.79\00:13:55.91
So, yes. There are real
ones, there are fake ones,
00:13:55.94\00:13:59.91
but there are definitely
real supernatural experiences
00:13:59.94\00:14:03.88
that people are
having all over the world.
00:14:03.91\00:14:05.99
Lois, I have no doubt that
you believed that everything
00:14:06.85\00:14:10.33
that was happening to you was
real, because you were able to
00:14:10.37\00:14:14.76
test it by talking with
someone else even if you had
00:14:14.79\00:14:18.66
an experience that
you were channeling
00:14:18.69\00:14:21.08
the thoughts of a channeler.
00:14:21.11\00:14:22.48
Is that correct?
00:14:22.91\00:14:23.88
Yes, there was a
channeler in London
00:14:23.89\00:14:25.24
and he was a friend of a friend.
00:14:25.27\00:14:27.98
And I've never met him,
but I was able to tell her
00:14:28.42\00:14:31.39
the things that were
going on in his life.
00:14:31.42\00:14:33.47
She would get a letter, like
a week later, but I would have
00:14:33.51\00:14:36.72
told her everything
that was in the letter.
00:14:36.75\00:14:38.16
She never talked with him
and she would just get a letter
00:14:38.20\00:14:40.76
and she'd say:
'Everything that you said
00:14:40.79\00:14:42.15
was happening in his life. '
00:14:42.18\00:14:43.77
He would be writing the letter,
00:14:43.81\00:14:45.33
and as he was probably in
London writing the letter,
00:14:45.37\00:14:47.68
I was getting the
message of what he was saying
00:14:47.71\00:14:49.91
and I was able to tell her.
00:14:49.94\00:14:51.44
So you never felt in any
way like 'Am I loosing it?'
00:14:51.48\00:14:55.95
You never got frightened?
00:14:56.30\00:14:57.45
I thought it was a gift.
00:14:57.49\00:14:58.57
I thought it was
a positive thing.
00:14:58.61\00:15:00.17
It was a very
positive thing to me.
00:15:00.21\00:15:01.74
You know, it's interesting,
because in Lois' case
00:15:02.24\00:15:04.80
she was actually,
what I would call, seeing
00:15:04.83\00:15:08.65
into the spiritual realm.
00:15:08.68\00:15:10.92
Does science
support this in any way?
00:15:11.58\00:15:14.62
Until recently, no.
00:15:16.13\00:15:17.58
But lately, yes.
00:15:18.66\00:15:20.88
Technology is advancing in
such a phenomenal rate today.
00:15:22.59\00:15:26.07
We're learning so much.
00:15:26.10\00:15:27.66
And the equipment that we
have to test the world around us
00:15:27.70\00:15:31.06
and see what's really happening
has become so sophisticated,
00:15:31.10\00:15:35.16
so advanced that scientists
today are actually detecting
00:15:35.20\00:15:39.23
evidence of other
realms and other dimensions
00:15:39.26\00:15:42.51
beyond the one that we
all function in every day.
00:15:42.55\00:15:45.73
I read an article recently,
that was in a scientific journal
00:15:45.77\00:15:50.40
that said that physicists now
believe that they have proved
00:15:50.44\00:15:55.00
that there are other dimensions
that humans can not detect.
00:15:55.04\00:15:59.57
And it reminded me of
... I just thought of this.
00:15:59.60\00:16:02.53
Remember when
Elijah's servant was fearful
00:16:04.71\00:16:08.44
because they were surrounded
00:16:08.47\00:16:10.72
and Elijah prayed and said:
00:16:10.76\00:16:12.94
'Lord, open his
eyes, that he may see. '
00:16:12.98\00:16:16.65
And God opened his
eyes and he saw the angels
00:16:16.69\00:16:20.85
that were with them.
00:16:20.88\00:16:22.72
So essentially what I
took from this article was that
00:16:22.76\00:16:26.95
there are dimensions right now
where we sit in this building
00:16:26.99\00:16:31.70
that we can not see
the certain spirit realm
00:16:31.73\00:16:36.94
or the other dimensions.
00:16:36.97\00:16:38.71
So would you say this
would be just an educated guess.
00:16:38.75\00:16:42.88
But would you say that
people who are like Lois
00:16:42.91\00:16:46.74
had somehow tapped into by some
power they're tapping into that
00:16:46.78\00:16:52.82
other realm where they're
actually seeing the spirits.
00:16:52.85\00:16:57.29
Something like that.
00:16:57.32\00:16:58.50
It's not that the person who
experiences this is tapping into
00:16:58.54\00:17:02.80
it, it's that those powers
that exist in the other realm
00:17:02.83\00:17:07.77
are coming
through and contacting us.
00:17:07.80\00:17:11.07
That's very good.
00:17:11.64\00:17:12.75
It fools us to think
that 'I've got the power'
00:17:12.79\00:17:16.80
We don't have any of that power.
00:17:17.78\00:17:19.06
But they have the power to
reach through and contact us.
00:17:19.65\00:17:23.15
And that's part
of the deception.
00:17:23.18\00:17:25.01
So all psychic phenomena,
all of the supernatural things
00:17:25.05\00:17:29.09
that are taking place
in this world are from
00:17:29.12\00:17:31.41
these other dimensions reaching
through to our dimension
00:17:31.45\00:17:35.79
and making something
happen that's not natural.
00:17:36.57\00:17:40.27
As we try to understand what
is behind these experiences,
00:17:41.16\00:17:44.30
it is interesting to hear
what people have gone through
00:17:44.33\00:17:47.44
as they are
trying to get out of it.
00:17:48.05\00:17:50.71
Listen to what Lois went through
00:17:51.31\00:17:53.51
And then all of a
sudden things started changing.
00:17:54.48\00:17:57.88
What was warm and a
beautiful experience
00:17:58.83\00:18:00.63
all of a sudden started
becoming a darker experience.
00:18:00.67\00:18:03.13
Ad I really didn't know
what was going on with it.
00:18:03.16\00:18:05.59
I had started reading the Bible.
00:18:05.62\00:18:07.60
I was given the Bible
and asked to study it.
00:18:08.19\00:18:09.96
And from that point,
every once in a while,
00:18:11.33\00:18:15.17
something would happen.
00:18:15.20\00:18:16.73
It was like a presence.
00:18:18.42\00:18:20.27
It would be as I was
walking down the hallway
00:18:20.31\00:18:22.44
or I was going into a room.
00:18:22.47\00:18:24.51
And it would feel like
something would brush me.
00:18:24.55\00:18:26.54
I would want to
draw back from it.
00:18:26.57\00:18:29.04
Then my brother told me that
he didn't like the experience.
00:18:30.89\00:18:33.82
He didn't wanna do it anymore.
00:18:33.85\00:18:35.11
For some reason he was getting
that this wasn't a right thing.
00:18:35.15\00:18:37.47
We shouldn't be doing this
00:18:37.50\00:18:38.75
He didn't feel
comfortable with it anymore.
00:18:38.79\00:18:40.61
And while he was on
the phone telling me that,
00:18:40.65\00:18:42.73
it was as if he had to
put his hands up, he said.
00:18:42.77\00:18:44.82
Because it was like
something came at him.
00:18:45.38\00:18:46.80
He couldn't physically
see something, but he knew
00:18:46.84\00:18:49.40
that it was like
something attacked him,
00:18:49.43\00:18:51.13
or was going to attack
him and he had to stop it.
00:18:51.17\00:18:53.82
He said he actually put his
hands up while he was talking
00:18:54.16\00:18:57.62
on the phone, telling me he
didn't want to do this anymore.
00:18:57.65\00:19:01.08
And I thought 'Ok'
00:19:01.11\00:19:02.10
And then it started to,
as I've said, all of a sudden
00:19:02.14\00:19:06.72
feel the presence of something
like a dark figure or something
00:19:06.76\00:19:10.44
would brush up against me and
I'd move back or I'd go around.
00:19:10.47\00:19:14.12
I didn't know what was going on.
00:19:14.15\00:19:16.23
And then I made a decision that
I was going to come out of it.
00:19:16.27\00:19:19.86
That I wasn't
going to do it anymore.
00:19:19.89\00:19:21.41
And as soon as I made that
decision, I was in bed one night
00:19:23.77\00:19:26.80
I was awake, I was
getting ready to go to sleep
00:19:26.83\00:19:30.59
and my whole room
filled up with flames.
00:19:33.44\00:19:36.53
There were flames all
over the whole entire room.
00:19:36.57\00:19:38.82
And it was terrifying.
00:19:39.56\00:19:41.07
And I thought 'What's going on?'
00:19:41.11\00:19:42.85
I had no idea what was going on.
00:19:42.88\00:19:44.55
And then all of the nice
people that I used to see,
00:19:44.59\00:19:46.90
all of the smiling faces, all of
the things that I thought were
00:19:46.94\00:19:50.94
my loved ones, people
who I knew who had died,
00:19:50.97\00:19:53.78
all of a sudden
appeared in this flames.
00:19:55.76\00:19:58.32
But they turned and all
of a sudden they were demons.
00:19:58.36\00:20:01.82
And they were ugly,
and they were horrible.
00:20:02.54\00:20:05.06
And they started just trying
to grab me and poke at me.
00:20:05.10\00:20:08.62
And I was terrified.
00:20:09.02\00:20:10.48
And I put my hands all over
my chest and I have been reading
00:20:11.04\00:20:14.69
the Bible, and I
just kept saying:
00:20:14.72\00:20:15.69
'By the power and blood
of Jesus Christ I am saved. '
00:20:16.82\00:20:20.98
And I said it
over and over again.
00:20:22.21\00:20:23.63
But it continued.
00:20:23.66\00:20:24.79
It was so intense that I wanted
to get a hug from the person
00:20:24.83\00:20:29.05
who I was with so I leaned over
and as I leaned over in the bed
00:20:29.09\00:20:33.28
his entire body was a wolf head.
00:20:34.57\00:20:36.68
A horrible giant wolf head
00:20:37.18\00:20:38.93
with red eyes, and
a tongue and teeth.
00:20:38.97\00:20:41.60
And I screamed.
00:20:42.38\00:20:43.47
And I just kept saying it over
00:20:43.51\00:20:45.38
'Lord, if you don't save
me I don't known what to do. '
00:20:45.42\00:20:50.89
And I just kept repeating
00:20:50.92\00:20:53.11
'I'm saved by the power
and blood of Jesus Christ. '
00:20:53.15\00:20:57.52
I said it over and
over again. And it subsided.
00:20:57.55\00:21:00.38
Everything withdrew from
the presence that was there.
00:21:02.65\00:21:06.18
Shortly after
that I was baptized.
00:21:06.94\00:21:09.06
I gave my life to Jesus Christ.
00:21:09.10\00:21:11.19
The person that was
with me had no knowledge
00:21:11.92\00:21:13.94
of what was going on with me.
00:21:13.97\00:21:14.96
I know I screamed, but
I never heard my scream.
00:21:15.00\00:21:17.40
What a
frightening experience, Lois.
00:21:18.89\00:21:20.79
This reminds me of a
scripture that says that Satan
00:21:21.71\00:21:24.82
and his angels
masquerade as angels of light.
00:21:24.85\00:21:28.66
So suddenly you were really
seeing the dark side of evil.
00:21:29.49\00:21:33.39
How did you come
out of this, then?
00:21:34.18\00:21:36.35
It was terrifying
when it first happened.
00:21:37.13\00:21:39.16
And I continued
studying my Bible.
00:21:39.84\00:21:41.97
I remember especially looking at
a text that was in Deuteronomy.
00:21:42.01\00:21:46.26
And it really touched my heart
and my mind when I read it.
00:21:47.02\00:21:52.36
It's Deuteronomy 18,
and it was 10 and 11.
00:21:52.92\00:21:58.15
And it goes: "There shall not
be found among you anyone who
00:21:59.18\00:22:02.08
makes his son and daughter
pass through the fire or one who
00:22:02.12\00:22:04.99
practices witchcraft,
or soothsayers, or one who
00:22:05.02\00:22:08.59
interprets omens, or a sorcerer.
00:22:08.62\00:22:10.60
Or one who casts spells,
or a medium, or a spiritist,
00:22:10.64\00:22:14.36
or one who calls up the dead. "
00:22:14.39\00:22:16.25
And I realized
that's what I was doing.
00:22:16.29\00:22:18.18
And it says in the next verse
that's an abomination to God.
00:22:18.98\00:22:22.60
And I thought:
'Wow. I love God. '
00:22:23.16\00:22:25.88
I mean I was raised in faith,
knowing about God and shouldn't
00:22:25.92\00:22:30.73
be doing something that
was an abomination to Him.
00:22:30.76\00:22:32.76
When I saw what it was
doing to me, it was turning,
00:22:33.35\00:22:37.06
everything was changing.
00:22:37.09\00:22:38.14
Absolutely.
00:22:38.67\00:22:39.98
So, pastor, when we
talked about the powers that
00:22:40.02\00:22:43.33
were coming out of that
realm and reaching out for us,
00:22:43.37\00:22:46.66
we know as a church that these
powers are really evil powers.
00:22:47.65\00:22:52.89
Aren't they?
00:22:52.92\00:22:53.89
Yes.
00:22:53.90\00:22:54.87
The Bible, if we're gonna take
the Bible as the Word of God,
00:22:54.88\00:22:57.85
it explains that
there are fallen angels.
00:22:58.55\00:23:01.72
They made that choice.
00:23:03.69\00:23:04.84
They fell from that place that
they had in Heaven originally.
00:23:04.88\00:23:08.56
And when you see the
word demon in the Bible,
00:23:09.38\00:23:12.00
it's a fallen angel.
00:23:12.03\00:23:14.40
And they are at war with
God, with the people of God
00:23:15.10\00:23:20.77
in this world.
00:23:20.80\00:23:22.17
The last thing that they wan
is for you to make a decision
00:23:22.21\00:23:26.79
to follow Jesus, to search
the Bible to find the truth.
00:23:26.82\00:23:31.37
You know, Lois, it was
that very text in Deuteronomy,
00:23:32.02\00:23:34.70
chapter 18, that was because of
the truth of that text that made
00:23:34.74\00:23:39.66
you say: I'm not
gonna do this anymore.
00:23:39.69\00:23:41.93
I don't wanna do something
that's an abomination to God.
00:23:41.97\00:23:44.36
So, that's what makes
the Bible so important.
00:23:46.38\00:23:48.89
And these evil
agencies that are out there,
00:23:50.01\00:23:52.49
they don't want us to look here.
00:23:52.52\00:23:54.27
They try to keep
us away from that.
00:23:54.31\00:23:55.99
The question that's
coming up in my mind is:
00:23:56.03\00:23:59.23
How did these evil spirits,
when they are masquerading
00:23:59.27\00:24:02.83
as a loved one,
00:24:02.86\00:24:04.79
how did they know the
things that are personal?
00:24:04.83\00:24:10.32
Lois shared an experience
where a spirit was telling her
00:24:11.27\00:24:16.71
about grandma's teapot, that no
one else could have known about.
00:24:16.75\00:24:20.83
How did they know that?
00:24:20.86\00:24:22.54
You can assume from scripture
that they have the power
00:24:24.74\00:24:28.14
and the ability to
look from their dimension
00:24:28.17\00:24:30.80
into our dimension.
00:24:30.83\00:24:32.17
And they're very
good at keeping notes.
00:24:32.71\00:24:35.45
These are advanced beings, much
more intelligent than we are
00:24:36.23\00:24:39.47
and they want this deception
to be one that's believable.
00:24:40.06\00:24:45.16
So I can just imagine how
many organizations they have
00:24:45.20\00:24:50.23
of keeping notes on individuals
from generation to generation.
00:24:50.27\00:24:54.63
And then, the psychic comes
along and has a dream about
00:24:55.25\00:25:00.13
a dead person and it
turns out to be true.
00:25:00.16\00:25:04.29
It's not because of any
power that the psychic had.
00:25:05.21\00:25:07.73
These evil powers give the
dream, give the information
00:25:08.29\00:25:12.23
that's in it and they
know everything about long lost
00:25:12.27\00:25:16.18
grandma that used to do
this or used to do that.
00:25:16.21\00:25:19.95
And they pass
that information on.
00:25:20.82\00:25:22.67
And in the psychic
world, people think that
00:25:23.42\00:25:26.20
they have some kind of
power to be able to read minds,
00:25:26.24\00:25:30.10
or to fortune tell the future
or go back into somebody's life.
00:25:30.14\00:25:35.72
It's not really a
power that they have.
00:25:36.51\00:25:38.65
They're being given that
information from fallen angels
00:25:38.69\00:25:41.97
that have that information
because they've been keeping
00:25:42.00\00:25:45.25
track of it for a long time.
00:25:45.28\00:25:47.11
That makes sense to me,
because, have you ever noticed
00:25:47.15\00:25:49.72
that it seems like they're much
better about telling things from
00:25:49.76\00:25:53.46
the past than they are
about forecasting the future.
00:25:53.49\00:25:56.13
I mean that very rarely does it
come true what they're actually
00:25:56.17\00:25:59.38
saying about the future.
00:25:59.41\00:26:00.92
But for example, I heard a story
of a woman who lost her son
00:26:01.79\00:26:06.64
in the war and she woke up one
night in her grief and her son
00:26:06.68\00:26:11.50
was appeared at
the foot of her bed.
00:26:11.53\00:26:14.40
And he gave her the
most loving message.
00:26:14.43\00:26:17.18
And she was so
comforted by this message.
00:26:17.22\00:26:19.94
The next night, he
came and he told her
00:26:20.70\00:26:22.78
Mom, don't worry, I'm in Heaven.
00:26:22.81\00:26:24.63
And everybody goes to Heaven.
00:26:25.26\00:26:27.84
You don't have to
worry about things anymore.
00:26:27.88\00:26:30.67
It doesn't matter
whether you're good or evil,
00:26:30.71\00:26:33.47
God is gonna save everyone.
00:26:33.50\00:26:36.02
That confused her a little
bit, because she knew it was
00:26:37.96\00:26:40.54
against the Word of God
00:26:40.57\00:26:42.00
but she still felt that
she had seen her loved one.
00:26:42.04\00:26:46.19
How do we know that
that was not her loved one?
00:26:46.77\00:26:50.25
Good question.
00:26:50.28\00:26:51.25
Because this is a phenomena
that is happening all over.
00:26:51.26\00:26:54.59
We've got cable TV
programs of spirit mediums and
00:26:55.53\00:26:59.11
communication with
the dead all the time.
00:26:59.14\00:27:01.03
And it seems like the whole
world is really getting into it.
00:27:01.38\00:27:03.89
It's a comforting believe
00:27:05.38\00:27:07.60
to think that a
lost loved one is OK.
00:27:08.35\00:27:12.76
And it's very easy to fool a
person, because they wanna feel
00:27:14.16\00:27:20.48
good, they don't
want to continue grieving.
00:27:20.51\00:27:23.01
They don't want the negative
feelings that come along
00:27:23.45\00:27:25.93
with loosing a loved one.
00:27:25.96\00:27:27.89
So it's pretty easy to
deceive people into thinking
00:27:28.59\00:27:32.41
that this is really them.
00:27:32.44\00:27:34.37
But again, I went
through this experience myself.
00:27:35.05\00:27:38.62
I sat in a séance and a little
child had a message for me.
00:27:39.25\00:27:43.37
And I had to go home that night.
00:27:44.22\00:27:45.19
that same text open in my Bible.
00:27:47.16\00:27:49.33
Deuteronomy 18, verse
10. That's when I read that.
00:27:49.37\00:27:52.70
It's a deception
that people like to hear.
00:27:55.27\00:27:59.73
What we need to do is go
to the Bible and find out what
00:28:01.86\00:28:04.94
does the Bible teach happens
to a person when they die.
00:28:04.98\00:28:09.93
It's as simple as that.
00:28:09.96\00:28:10.93
I remember when I came
out of this all thing, that's
00:28:10.96\00:28:12.97
the first thing
that I wanted to know.
00:28:13.00\00:28:14.81
What does the
Bible say about that?
00:28:15.54\00:28:18.32
The Bible says in over 200
places that the dead are dead.
00:28:19.84\00:28:28.23
It says that the
dead know not anything.
00:28:30.90\00:28:33.68
It says that once you
die, the people back on Earth
00:28:35.57\00:28:38.97
will never have anything
to do with you ever again.
00:28:39.01\00:28:42.38
And that you'll never
know anything that takes place
00:28:43.03\00:28:45.26
back on Earth.
00:28:45.29\00:28:46.75
That's in Ecclesiastes.
00:28:47.41\00:28:49.12
It says: "Whatever
your hand finds to do,
00:28:50.29\00:28:53.95
do it with all your
might, because there's no work,
00:28:53.99\00:28:56.91
there's no love, there's nothing
in the grave where you go. "
00:28:58.02\00:29:02.29
This is a Bible versus that
says dead know not anything.
00:29:03.02\00:29:06.66
In Psalm 146, verse 4 it says:
00:29:07.77\00:29:09.74
"In that very day,
your thoughts perish"
00:29:09.78\00:29:13.27
If you die and
your thoughts perish,
00:29:14.24\00:29:16.03
how can you come
back and talk to somebody?
00:29:16.96\00:29:19.53
If the dead know not
anything, how can they come back
00:29:20.32\00:29:23.49
and talk with you?
00:29:23.52\00:29:24.94
So it comes down to the question
00:29:25.99\00:29:28.25
Are we gonna believe this?
00:29:28.28\00:29:29.97
Or, are we gonna
believe our eyes?
00:29:30.95\00:29:33.43
That's a pretty
difficult choice sometimes.
00:29:35.05\00:29:37.03
For me, in the church that I
grew up in, I was taught that
00:29:37.57\00:29:43.26
when we died, we went to Heaven.
00:29:43.29\00:29:45.41
And as I studied
this out on my own,
00:29:45.45\00:29:48.09
I found out the
truth from the Bible.
00:29:48.12\00:29:50.73
And what happened was that
00:29:50.76\00:29:53.52
I tried to share
this truth with my sister.
00:29:55.19\00:29:58.07
And when I did, she said:
00:29:58.10\00:30:00.15
Don't you tell me
that our mama is in heaven?
00:30:00.19\00:30:03.62
She's not just
resting in her grave.
00:30:03.65\00:30:06.11
I refuse to listen to it.
00:30:06.14\00:30:07.85
So just recently I was talking
with her and I was reading her
00:30:08.54\00:30:11.50
a scripture from
John, chapter 5, that says:
00:30:11.53\00:30:15.95
"Do not be surprised and wonder
at this, for the time is coming
00:30:21.58\00:30:25.96
when all those who are in
the tombs shall hear His voice
00:30:25.99\00:30:30.27
and they shall come out.
00:30:30.30\00:30:32.45
Those who
practice good will come out
00:30:32.49\00:30:35.83
to the resurrection of New Life.
00:30:35.86\00:30:38.61
And those who had done evil
will be raised for judgment. "
00:30:38.65\00:30:43.18
So I was talking to my sister
about the two resurrections that
00:30:43.21\00:30:48.33
the Bible refers to in Revelat.
20, verse 5 and she said:
00:30:48.37\00:30:53.46
Wait a minute.
00:30:53.49\00:30:54.46
What do you mean
"they're gonna hear the voice
00:30:55.23\00:30:57.66
and they're in the grave"?
00:30:57.69\00:30:59.45
And I said: Well
honey, you need to go read
00:30:59.49\00:31:02.53
1st Corinthians,
chapter 15, that says:
00:31:02.56\00:31:05.53
"Man is mortal and we
do not put on immortality
00:31:05.57\00:31:11.00
until the last trump. "
00:31:11.03\00:31:14.51
She absolutely got so upset
with me, but she called back
00:31:15.46\00:31:19.85
about six hours later and
she'd done a study on her own
00:31:19.88\00:31:24.24
with the concordance.
00:31:24.27\00:31:25.74
And she called me
back and she said:
00:31:25.78\00:31:28.02
That's true.
00:31:28.05\00:31:29.28
And all this time I thought
that the dead were in Heaven.
00:31:29.32\00:31:34.24
But the interesting thing about
this that ties in with this
00:31:34.86\00:31:38.84
program, just two days later
she was visiting with someone
00:31:38.87\00:31:42.82
who's husband had died
and who began -the person was
00:31:42.85\00:31:49.32
involved in new
age - began praying
00:31:49.35\00:31:52.31
And as the woman prayed, my
sister related the story to me,
00:31:52.78\00:31:57.23
said that the room was filled,
was just flooded with light
00:31:57.26\00:32:01.97
and a warm feeling came over
her and she felt the presence
00:32:02.01\00:32:06.69
of this woman's husband.
00:32:06.72\00:32:09.11
And then she said:
00:32:09.14\00:32:10.63
And I realized that
Satan was masquerading
00:32:11.29\00:32:15.12
as an angel of light.
00:32:15.15\00:32:17.11
And what was really going on,
it was like she learned truth
00:32:17.15\00:32:21.48
just in time so that
she would not be deceived.
00:32:21.51\00:32:24.76
That's amazing.
00:32:25.60\00:32:26.57
Can I share a couple of
other verses that I've read
00:32:26.58\00:32:30.39
so many times but didn't think
of it until I really studied
00:32:30.43\00:32:34.53
this subject out.
00:32:34.56\00:32:35.92
John, chapter 14.
This is a famous text.
00:32:39.04\00:32:42.34
"Let not your heart be troubled"
00:32:42.37\00:32:45.08
Jesus says: "In my Father's
house are many mansions;
00:32:45.73\00:32:48.40
If it were not so,
I would have told you.
00:32:48.43\00:32:50.34
I go to prepare a place for you"
00:32:50.37\00:32:52.12
Think about this.
00:32:52.15\00:32:53.12
Jesus is saying: "I'm going
to prepare a place for you"
00:32:53.13\00:32:56.47
He's talking to his disciples.
00:32:56.50\00:32:58.07
And He says: "And if I go
and prepare a place for you,
00:32:58.11\00:33:00.83
I will come again and
receive you unto myself so that
00:33:01.57\00:33:04.98
where I am,
there ye may be also. "
00:33:05.01\00:33:07.41
Where was Jesus going?
He was going to Heaven.
00:33:07.45\00:33:10.24
And He says: 'If I go to Heaven
and prepare a place for you,
00:33:11.29\00:33:14.91
I will come back again
- at the second coming,
00:33:14.94\00:33:18.24
when He comes back-
and take you with me,
00:33:18.27\00:33:20.92
so that you can
be there with me. '
00:33:20.95\00:33:22.98
If the dead go to
Heaven and stay there,
00:33:23.75\00:33:26.15
why does Jesus have to
come back to get us for?
00:33:26.19\00:33:29.24
We're already there.
00:33:29.27\00:33:30.69
Amen.
00:33:30.72\00:33:31.69
Coming up next, we're going to
have Rick Howard tell us about
00:33:32.24\00:33:35.46
his own encounter
with the supernatural.
00:33:35.49\00:33:38.00
We'll be right back.
00:33:38.03\00:33:39.34
Is the occult really dangerous
or is it just some magic act?
00:33:44.84\00:33:48.62
Can you contact other spirits?
00:33:49.00\00:33:50.43
If so, how do you know
if they're good or evil?
00:33:51.11\00:33:53.13
Find answers to your
questions while reading
00:33:53.17\00:33:55.16
"Questioning the Supernatural"
00:33:55.19\00:33:57.28
For your free gift, just
write to us today at Up Close
00:33:57.32\00:33:59.80
Or call during
regular business hours.
00:34:03.62\00:34:05.76
Ask for Up Close offer Nr.12.
00:34:11.20\00:34:13.41
Welcome back to Up Close.
00:34:26.49\00:34:28.17
Today we're talking about
the dangers of the supernatural
00:34:28.21\00:34:31.24
and our expert
guest is Rick Howard
00:34:31.27\00:34:33.62
from Hilton Head, South Carolina
00:34:33.66\00:34:35.98
Rick, I know that you have
personal experience in this area
00:34:36.62\00:34:40.23
and you mentioned me earlier
there are certain things that
00:34:40.26\00:34:43.84
people can do
00:34:43.87\00:34:45.38
that actually open the doors
to this type of experience.
00:34:45.42\00:34:50.49
Could you explain that
from your own experience?
00:34:50.52\00:34:52.73
Sure.
00:34:52.76\00:34:53.78
What happened in my situation
was that, I just began having
00:34:56.24\00:35:01.32
some of what's called
"out-of-body experiences".
00:35:01.35\00:35:05.37
I didn't know what they were.
00:35:06.20\00:35:07.80
At first I almost
thought 'Am I dreaming this?'
00:35:08.91\00:35:12.37
But time and time again for
a number of years I would have
00:35:13.82\00:35:17.91
this experience of leaving
my body of experiencing ...
00:35:17.94\00:35:22.32
I don't know how to say it...
00:35:24.21\00:35:25.18
It's like a vibration
through your body, a low voltage
00:35:25.19\00:35:28.85
electricity running through it.
00:35:28.88\00:35:30.53
I don't think that I've
ever talked to a crowd of people
00:35:31.99\00:35:33.84
where there aren't
some people there that say:
00:35:33.87\00:35:35.76
Yeah, I know
exactly what you're saying.
00:35:35.79\00:35:37.80
It's happened to me.
00:35:37.83\00:35:38.80
You weak up from a
sleep, or you fall asleep and
00:35:39.51\00:35:42.41
you come back and you
weak up and you feel this power
00:35:42.45\00:35:46.05
all over your body.
00:35:46.08\00:35:47.33
But you can't
move. You're paralyzed.
00:35:48.21\00:35:50.84
You're mind is awake and
you can pull your eyes open,
00:35:51.56\00:35:54.69
but meanwhile this electricity
is flowing through you.
00:35:54.73\00:35:57.83
This happened to me all
over and over and over again.
00:35:59.07\00:36:01.12
I never knew what it was.
00:36:01.15\00:36:02.31
I thought I had
epilepsy or something.
00:36:02.35\00:36:04.06
But eventually, I noticed that
I actually had an experience
00:36:04.88\00:36:10.36
of separating from my
body when this happened.
00:36:10.39\00:36:13.12
And when I picked up a book...
00:36:14.23\00:36:17.68
This was the first time I
thought spiritually about it.
00:36:19.13\00:36:22.20
I picked up a
book that was entitled
00:36:22.23\00:36:24.19
"Journeys Out Of The Body"
by a man named dr. Robert Monroe
00:36:24.23\00:36:27.23
And this book was filled
with experiences that he had
00:36:28.57\00:36:31.64
with astral projection.
00:36:31.67\00:36:33.62
And he went on to describe
the physical sensations and
00:36:33.66\00:36:36.94
how it happened to him and I
was like I was reading exactly
00:36:36.98\00:36:40.67
what was happening to me.
00:36:40.70\00:36:42.00
This really got me to think.
00:36:43.09\00:36:44.78
Wait a minute.
00:36:44.81\00:36:45.78
There's a part of me that
can separate from my body?
00:36:45.79\00:36:48.24
Is that the soul?
00:36:49.56\00:36:51.08
This was my
thinking at that point.
00:36:51.12\00:36:52.73
And then I was just overwhelmed.
00:36:53.65\00:36:56.30
I became totally obsessed with
finding out the truth about life
00:36:56.34\00:37:00.79
I said that if this is true,
if this is really happening,
00:37:01.44\00:37:04.51
I wanna know what
life is all about.
00:37:05.40\00:37:06.96
Why am I here?
00:37:06.99\00:37:08.18
Where am I going when I die?
00:37:09.14\00:37:10.74
What is this power?
00:37:10.77\00:37:12.17
Does it happen to other people?
00:37:12.21\00:37:14.01
So I started searching.
00:37:14.55\00:37:16.06
And my search naturally led me
into those other religions and
00:37:16.10\00:37:19.76
philosophies in the world that
incorporate the supernatural.
00:37:19.80\00:37:23.43
Cause that's what
was happening to me.
00:37:23.46\00:37:25.26
And I started
studying into the occult,
00:37:25.71\00:37:28.25
winded up going through
mind control, spiritualism.
00:37:29.34\00:37:32.98
And spiritualism was frightening
00:37:33.79\00:37:35.85
Could you explain for our
guests what spiritualism is?
00:37:36.56\00:37:40.35
Spiritualism is a word
that covers everything,
00:37:40.38\00:37:44.22
but the spiritualism
that I'm talking about here
00:37:44.26\00:37:48.07
is communication
with the dead, séances,
00:37:48.10\00:37:50.47
communicating with a spirit
that gives you information
00:37:51.79\00:37:55.55
that you can share with others.
00:37:55.58\00:37:57.25
I was told when I went
to the spirit medium that
00:37:57.80\00:38:00.39
I was gonna be a spirit medium.
00:38:00.42\00:38:02.22
That I have the same ability.
00:38:02.26\00:38:04.35
Which kind of works on your ego.
00:38:04.38\00:38:06.40
But again, it has
nothing to do with us folks.
00:38:06.44\00:38:10.33
It is not any power that
we have, but they fool you
00:38:10.37\00:38:13.87
into thinking that it
is some kind of a power,
00:38:13.90\00:38:16.05
that you're gifted,
that you're special.
00:38:16.08\00:38:17.57
I got involved with it.
00:38:19.79\00:38:21.36
I went to a séance.
00:38:21.94\00:38:23.28
I was involved with other
psychics that did all kinds of
00:38:23.32\00:38:28.02
things from psychic dreams
to levitation, to mind reading.
00:38:28.05\00:38:32.72
And they all did it.
00:38:33.43\00:38:34.40
And I can tell
you that they did it.
00:38:34.83\00:38:36.86
But I was there and I
know that they did it.
00:38:38.04\00:38:40.36
And I got nervous.
00:38:41.25\00:38:43.27
I got nervous with
this form of supernatural.
00:38:43.93\00:38:47.20
I was convicted in my
heart that I was a sinner.
00:38:48.02\00:38:51.13
I wanted to know the truth
more than anything else in life.
00:38:51.75\00:38:54.44
The truth. I
didn't wanna be fooled.
00:38:55.04\00:38:56.74
I felt: 'How do I know
that this is from God?'
00:38:56.78\00:38:59.64
I know the power is real
but what if it's not God?
00:38:59.67\00:39:02.50
What if it's some
other kind of a power
00:39:02.53\00:39:04.38
and I'm being deceived into it?
00:39:04.41\00:39:06.72
Oh, and I prayed 4-5
hours a day for five years,
00:39:06.76\00:39:13.09
pleading with God to
lead me to the truth.
00:39:13.76\00:39:16.53
I would pray to Buddha,
I would pray to Krishna,
00:39:16.57\00:39:19.17
I would pray to
Mohammed, to Jesus.
00:39:19.20\00:39:21.45
I said: 'I don't
know who you are,
00:39:21.49\00:39:23.71
but I want to know the truth.
00:39:23.74\00:39:25.32
I don't wanna be fooled anymore'
00:39:25.35\00:39:26.86
During that five
year period, I studied.
00:39:26.90\00:39:29.81
I read everything,
every spiritual book that was
00:39:30.27\00:39:32.80
available, that you
could get your hands on.
00:39:32.84\00:39:36.07
I'd spend 6-7 hours a
night reading to 3 o'clock
00:39:36.11\00:39:39.31
in the morning, 4
o'clock in the morning.
00:39:39.34\00:39:41.16
I'd pray for hours every day,
00:39:41.19\00:39:43.05
wanting to know
what the truth was.
00:39:43.09\00:39:44.46
And one of the main reasons
that I prayed was that I wanted
00:39:45.06\00:39:48.34
to stop doing the things that
00:39:48.37\00:39:50.21
I was doing in my life
that I knew were sinful.
00:39:50.25\00:39:52.42
This all came in real
handy later on, because I had
00:39:54.13\00:39:57.38
a lot of information,
I did a lot of study,
00:39:57.41\00:39:59.43
I left the spiritualism alone,
00:39:59.46\00:40:01.58
I said I'm not going
back to that medium again.
00:40:01.62\00:40:04.06
And two weeks later I was
00:40:05.04\00:40:06.21
the disciple of a
guru in New York City.
00:40:06.25\00:40:08.66
You've probably heard of
the rock'n'roll star Santana.
00:40:09.80\00:40:12.46
He and I were in the same
group, with the same guru.
00:40:12.87\00:40:15.93
We'd meet twice a week.
00:40:15.96\00:40:17.56
Sunday night and Thursday
night we'd go to the ashram.
00:40:17.60\00:40:20.32
And the way that I knew
that I was to be a disciple
00:40:21.39\00:40:24.16
of this guru was that
when I took his picture home,
00:40:24.19\00:40:26.93
when I meditated on it,
00:40:26.96\00:40:28.55
I stopped breathing
for I don't know how long.
00:40:29.32\00:40:32.08
Flames and fire
shot out of the picture.
00:40:32.11\00:40:34.50
Same kind of
experience that Lois had.
00:40:34.53\00:40:36.89
This was an
experience that, I was told,
00:40:38.44\00:40:41.24
meant that he
was to be my savior.
00:40:41.27\00:40:43.40
My guru - not just
a guru, but a savior.
00:40:44.17\00:40:46.96
So you were instructed to
meditate over with this picture.
00:40:47.00\00:40:50.08
Right.
00:40:50.11\00:40:51.32
And this lasted about a year.
00:40:51.36\00:40:53.70
And no matter what
question I had for them,
00:40:54.56\00:40:58.03
there was always an answer.
00:40:58.06\00:40:59.50
The answer always disagreed
with what I was studying
00:40:59.54\00:41:01.81
in the Bible.
00:41:01.84\00:41:02.88
I was reading the Bible, trying
to figure out what the truth was
00:41:02.92\00:41:05.52
He told me he was
my savior, this guru.
00:41:05.55\00:41:08.24
And that he was taking my karma.
00:41:08.27\00:41:10.29
All the negative
things that I have in my life
00:41:10.73\00:41:13.12
he was taking
upon himself to free me
00:41:13.15\00:41:15.79
so that I could go to
the next realm of existence.
00:41:15.83\00:41:21.00
But I got to the place
with Hinduism where I said:
00:41:22.58\00:41:27.55
'I can't do this anymore. '
00:41:28.39\00:41:29.96
I read Acts 4,
verse 12, that said:
00:41:30.00\00:41:31.92
"There's no other
name given among man,
00:41:31.96\00:41:33.85
whereby we can be saved. "
00:41:33.88\00:41:35.59
He told me he was my savior.
00:41:35.62\00:41:37.26
And the Bible says
only Jesus is my savior.
00:41:37.30\00:41:40.55
So I finally quit.
00:41:41.55\00:41:43.37
I said: 'That's it. '
00:41:43.40\00:41:45.15
God, I've been searching
for the truth for five years.
00:41:45.19\00:41:48.56
I almost had one
nervous breakdown.
00:41:49.16\00:41:50.90
Now I feel it coming on again.
00:41:50.93\00:41:52.96
And I said: 'I
know that you're real. '
00:41:53.78\00:41:56.06
'I know you're there, but
I don't know who you are. '
00:41:56.10\00:41:58.92
But I quit searching.
00:41:58.95\00:42:01.32
I'm not gonna look anymore.
I know that you are real.
00:42:01.36\00:42:04.19
You take over my life
and You lead me to the truth.
00:42:05.12\00:42:08.98
Cause I can't
find out what it is.
00:42:09.75\00:42:11.37
Every time I go down
a road, it's a dead end.
00:42:11.41\00:42:14.11
So I said:
00:42:14.14\00:42:15.14
'God, I'm yours and you know I
want this more than life itself'
00:42:15.18\00:42:19.64
And I did.
00:42:19.67\00:42:20.68
If I couldn't find the truth,
God knows I wanted to die.
00:42:20.72\00:42:24.28
I wasn't willing to continue.
It was a real struggle.
00:42:24.32\00:42:27.85
It was only three weeks later
00:42:28.61\00:42:30.90
that I moved next
door to a minister.
00:42:30.94\00:42:33.39
And I knew that
God led me there.
00:42:33.43\00:42:35.85
And when I told him the story
he was smiling from ear to ear.
00:42:36.74\00:42:41.23
He knew that God
led me there, too.
00:42:41.26\00:42:42.72
And we began to
study the Bible together.
00:42:43.47\00:42:45.48
And I went ahead
and I accepted Christ.
00:42:45.52\00:42:47.50
Immediately, the
Bible turned into a book
00:42:48.95\00:42:52.04
that was just unbelievable.
00:42:52.07\00:42:53.36
Every question that I
ever had about life and death,
00:42:53.40\00:42:55.93
and who we are and
where we're going when we die
00:42:55.97\00:42:58.43
and where we come from and
what's the purpose of existence.
00:42:58.47\00:43:00.81
Every question was
being answered in the book.
00:43:00.84\00:43:03.05
And I said: 'I
can't believe this. '
00:43:03.82\00:43:05.34
It was because I had accepted
Jesus and the Holy Spirit
00:43:05.94\00:43:08.96
was now feeding my
mind rather than me trying
00:43:08.99\00:43:12.31
to figure things
out with my carnal mind.
00:43:12.35\00:43:15.64
So God was good to me.
00:43:15.67\00:43:17.70
I wanted to know then,
what is this power all about.
00:43:18.33\00:43:23.37
I was fooled by it,
I was deceived by it,
00:43:23.40\00:43:26.12
even after I had accepted Christ
00:43:26.15\00:43:28.50
For a whole year, the
Devil would try to kill me.
00:43:29.22\00:43:32.08
I'd wake up in the middle
of the night with my whole body
00:43:32.12\00:43:34.75
being pushed
down through the bed.
00:43:34.78\00:43:36.52
I couldn't breathe.
00:43:36.55\00:43:37.52
And I went to bed every night
with the Bible in my hands.
00:43:37.56\00:43:41.48
And I'd wake up and claim
the promises in this Bible.
00:43:41.51\00:43:45.40
"The angel of the Lord
encampeth round about those
00:43:46.06\00:43:48.35
that love him,
and delivers them. "
00:43:48.38\00:43:50.75
I would say that, I would
quote that text and immediately
00:43:51.57\00:43:54.91
the forces, the power
that was trying to take my life
00:43:54.94\00:43:58.25
would just disappear.
00:43:58.28\00:43:59.46
And I know that if my
eyes were open like Elijah's,
00:43:59.50\00:44:01.55
that I would have
seen heavenly angels
00:44:01.58\00:44:03.86
fighting with these evil angels
that were trying to affect me,
00:44:03.90\00:44:08.34
even though I had accepted Jesus
00:44:08.37\00:44:09.89
And I often wondered
why. Why did this continue?
00:44:09.93\00:44:13.57
And I think that this is
such a dangerous deception
00:44:14.41\00:44:17.59
in the world today.
00:44:17.62\00:44:18.95
Spiritualism,the supernatural is
so dangerous that God actually
00:44:18.99\00:44:23.41
allowed the effects it to
continue in my life to teach me
00:44:23.44\00:44:26.54
'Don't ever fool
around with this again!'
00:44:27.16\00:44:29.29
Don't ever fool
around with it again!
00:44:29.77\00:44:31.40
Leave it alone!
00:44:31.43\00:44:32.44
Well, I did. I left it alone.
00:44:32.97\00:44:35.75
And those experiences
stopped there for about a year
00:44:36.19\00:44:38.75
a year and a half
or something like that.
00:44:38.78\00:44:40.56
And I determined to find out
what is it that makes this work.
00:44:41.35\00:44:45.37
And as I studied into it, as
I studied all the religions that
00:44:45.41\00:44:50.35
exist in the world, that
use the supernatural, meditation
00:44:50.39\00:44:55.16
Meditation was the common thread
that run through everything.
00:44:55.19\00:44:59.93
Whether it was
Christian mysticism, cabbala,
00:44:59.96\00:45:02.66
eastern religions, Hinduism,
psychic phenomena or the New
00:45:03.88\00:45:09.36
Age movement,
meditation was always involved.
00:45:09.39\00:45:12.90
And here's what I've learned.
00:45:13.57\00:45:14.61
There's a level of consciousness
called the "Alpha State".
00:45:16.11\00:45:19.50
It's when we are in the "Alpha
State" when our consciousness is
00:45:21.72\00:45:25.62
at that level that those powers
that are in the other realm
00:45:25.66\00:45:29.53
can reach through to us.
00:45:29.56\00:45:31.54
You can go into the "Alpha
State" in lots of different ways
00:45:32.10\00:45:35.22
You can do it by watching T.V.
00:45:35.98\00:45:37.44
As a matter of fact,
if you're watching T.V.
00:45:37.48\00:45:39.44
and you're staring at it...
00:45:39.47\00:45:41.77
Did you ever have that
experience when somebody
00:45:41.81\00:45:43.20
walks between you and the T.V.
and you didn't even see them?
00:45:43.24\00:45:46.50
You're in the "Alpha State".
00:45:47.13\00:45:48.78
When you're falling
asleep and you drop the pencil,
00:45:49.58\00:45:52.81
you've fallen actually
below the "Alpha State".
00:45:54.36\00:45:57.65
So the "Alpha State" is when
00:45:57.68\00:45:59.77
you're still
consciously aware of things.
00:46:00.26\00:46:02.57
You can get there from
being asleep and come up
00:46:03.00\00:46:05.84
into the "Alpha
State", and dream.
00:46:05.87\00:46:07.95
Or you can get
there through meditation,
00:46:08.58\00:46:10.36
going down from the conscious
state that we're all in right
00:46:11.50\00:46:14.70
now going down into it.
00:46:14.73\00:46:16.30
But please explain this.
00:46:16.34\00:46:18.29
The Bible says to
meditate on the Word.
00:46:18.33\00:46:19.84
You're not talking
about that type of meditation?
00:46:19.88\00:46:22.00
You're talking
about a meditation where
00:46:22.03\00:46:23.66
you're emptying your mind.
00:46:23.69\00:46:25.53
Sort of.
00:46:25.56\00:46:26.53
The "meditation" in the
Bible is really "contemplation".
00:46:27.05\00:46:30.10
Contemplate the Word
of God. Think about it.
00:46:30.84\00:46:33.17
The kind of meditation that
alters your consciousness is
00:46:33.82\00:46:38.12
that you try not to think
about anything except one thing,
00:46:38.15\00:46:42.42
or visualize with
the mind's eye one thing
00:46:43.15\00:46:47.69
and sustain that mental picture.
00:46:48.44\00:46:50.99
This is the fastest way
and the most successful way
00:46:51.03\00:46:53.77
to go into the "Alpha State".
00:46:53.80\00:46:55.96
By sustaining a mental picture.
00:46:56.00\00:46:58.13
There's a lot of people
doing guided imagery today where
00:46:58.62\00:47:01.61
they tell you to close your
eyes and they'll take you on
00:47:01.64\00:47:04.60
a little trip and
you imagine things.
00:47:04.63\00:47:07.12
Folks, we've got to be very
careful about stuff like that,
00:47:07.16\00:47:10.06
because it will take you
right into the "Alpha State".
00:47:10.09\00:47:12.96
And you may not be
happy with what you see there.
00:47:13.90\00:47:17.06
You may not even realize that
you're seeing something there
00:47:17.82\00:47:20.18
that is not from God.
00:47:20.87\00:47:22.53
And you can be
fooled doing that.
00:47:23.09\00:47:24.70
So the whole process of
meditation gets you to focus
00:47:29.42\00:47:33.15
on one thing to the
exclusion of everything else.
00:47:33.98\00:47:36.69
And you can do it
through New Age music.
00:47:36.72\00:47:39.38
That will do it. You
listen to that music.
00:47:39.41\00:47:42.29
It's a very focusing
music. It catches you.
00:47:42.32\00:47:45.17
You just listen to it and you're
waiting for it to reach a climax
00:47:45.69\00:47:49.85
But it never reaches a climax.
00:47:50.40\00:47:51.58
I don't know if you have
ever listened to New Age music.
00:47:51.62\00:47:54.52
It kind o f lifts you, and lifts
you, but it never gets there.
00:47:54.56\00:47:58.62
And that's a focusing thing.
00:47:59.08\00:48:00.66
So when you listen
to that kind of music,
00:48:00.70\00:48:02.83
it's bringing you
into that "Alpha State".
00:48:02.86\00:48:04.96
When you smoke marijuana...
00:48:05.53\00:48:06.72
Marijuana chemically brings
you into the "Alpha State".
00:48:07.51\00:48:10.52
The Christian mystiques
00:48:11.69\00:48:15.00
write about this
experience that they had.
00:48:17.52\00:48:20.99
They talk about their thoughts
coming to a stop in their mind.
00:48:21.03\00:48:26.46
When you meditate, the
whole idea is to bring you into
00:48:29.26\00:48:32.93
the "Alpha State" and
also slow down the thoughts.
00:48:32.96\00:48:36.60
Right now, if you're
wide awake thoughts will flip
00:48:37.19\00:48:41.85
across your consciousness
at 15 or 20 per second.
00:48:41.88\00:48:46.51
Like that.
00:48:46.54\00:48:48.10
And you reach out
and grab a thought,
00:48:48.14\00:48:50.47
and as soon as you grab a
thought, you automatically
00:48:51.60\00:48:53.95
attract thoughts
related to that one.
00:48:53.98\00:48:56.19
And then thoughts related
to that one and that one...
00:48:56.23\00:48:59.19
And that's how our mind works.
00:48:59.22\00:49:00.98
It just goes in that direction.
00:49:01.01\00:49:02.74
The idea in meditation is
to slow those thoughts down,
00:49:03.17\00:49:07.14
and eventually
bring them to a stop.
00:49:07.17\00:49:10.08
And that happens
through focusing.
00:49:10.82\00:49:12.79
Focusing the mind,
creating a mental picture,
00:49:13.36\00:49:16.15
holding it up in your mind.
00:49:16.59\00:49:18.65
It also happens
from smoking marijuana.
00:49:19.23\00:49:21.74
Marijuana chemically
slows the thoughts down.
00:49:22.30\00:49:25.56
That's why people
who have done marijuana
00:49:25.95\00:49:28.08
realize that there's
a time walk involved.
00:49:28.12\00:49:30.22
Time doesn't
seem to pass normally.
00:49:30.25\00:49:32.38
So, essentially when
you've slowed down like that
00:49:33.15\00:49:36.21
you've opened yourself up.
00:49:36.24\00:49:37.82
That's right.
00:49:37.85\00:49:38.82
We don't want to be
sitting around going ...
00:49:38.83\00:49:43.34
Coming up next we are going
to take some questions from
00:49:45.63\00:49:48.43
our live audience.
00:49:48.46\00:49:49.62
So please stay with us.
00:49:49.66\00:49:52.05
We'll focus on a hidden
problem that is becoming
00:49:57.45\00:49:59.66
more widespread among all age
groups in our fast pace society.
00:49:59.70\00:50:04.30
And that will be
10 years, tomorrow
00:50:04.33\00:50:07.14
and there's been a
lot of loneliness instead.
00:50:07.18\00:50:10.43
Loneliness is really
a sense of isolation.
00:50:10.46\00:50:13.68
It's a sense of inner emptiness.
00:50:13.71\00:50:16.34
...and focus on my
relationship with the Lord.
00:50:16.38\00:50:18.67
Because that ultimately
is where you really find
00:50:19.24\00:50:21.96
the security and peace.
00:50:21.99\00:50:23.84
Next week on Up Close:
00:50:24.72\00:50:26.57
Don't miss it!
00:50:26.60\00:50:28.96
Welcome back to Up Close.
00:50:44.08\00:50:45.83
We're talking today about
the dangers of the supernatural.
00:50:46.30\00:50:49.36
We're now going to take some
questions from our audience.
00:50:49.40\00:50:52.43
Please tell us your
name and your question.
00:50:52.94\00:50:55.49
My name's Lyn
Gallagher and I wanted to know
00:50:55.53\00:50:58.01
what is to keep the
supernatural from contacting me
00:50:58.05\00:51:01.17
if I don't want it to?
00:51:01.20\00:51:03.30
That's a good question.
00:51:03.81\00:51:05.51
Unfortunately, if we don't
make a decision, I believe this,
00:51:06.48\00:51:11.95
if we don't make a decision
to follow Jesus and be protected
00:51:11.99\00:51:17.43
by heavenly angels
because we've made the decision
00:51:18.39\00:51:22.97
to be a part of His Kingdom,
00:51:23.00\00:51:24.67
I think automatically
many of us then would be open
00:51:25.06\00:51:28.78
to the negative
influences of the supernatural
00:51:28.81\00:51:31.82
whether we want to or not.
00:51:31.85\00:51:33.47
And that's the difficult
part of this whole decision.
00:51:34.10\00:51:37.90
Once you know the truth,
the decision has to be made.
00:51:38.79\00:51:41.44
So for a person who doesn't
know anything about anything,
00:51:43.35\00:51:47.14
they need to, if they
have an experience like this,
00:51:47.72\00:51:49.94
to start searching
so that they can try to
00:51:49.97\00:51:52.32
find out what's happening.
00:51:52.35\00:51:54.20
But I would say that accepting
Jesus and the protection of
00:51:54.24\00:51:57.99
Heaven is the only way
that we can protect ourselves.
00:51:58.02\00:52:01.96
What if you're a Christian
and you still feel like
00:52:02.00\00:52:05.91
someone's trying
to come against you.
00:52:05.94\00:52:08.14
What do you do then?
00:52:08.17\00:52:09.20
You've got to turn
it over to Jesus again.
00:52:10.94\00:52:14.68
Maybe it means that you
need to more fully surrender
00:52:15.28\00:52:18.22
in your life.
00:52:18.25\00:52:19.36
That there's still something
in your life that you're holding
00:52:19.40\00:52:22.07
on to that is allowing
00:52:22.10\00:52:24.66
this fallen angels to
still have access to you.
00:52:24.70\00:52:27.62
A scripture that came through
my mind when you said that.
00:52:29.71\00:52:32.49
The Bible says:
00:52:32.52\00:52:33.69
"In your anger do not send a do
not give the devil a foot hold."
00:52:33.73\00:52:37.76
There are things even as
Christians, believers in Christ,
00:52:37.79\00:52:41.49
that sometimes we
need to examine our hearts
00:52:42.04\00:52:43.98
and see what's going on.
00:52:44.01\00:52:45.11
But we always need to
remember 1st John 4, 4:
00:52:45.15\00:52:47.94
"Greater is he who's in me
than he who is in the world. "
00:52:47.98\00:52:51.68
And just pray to the Lord.
00:52:51.71\00:52:53.84
And it's the Lord and His
Army that will protect us.
00:52:56.03\00:52:59.70
And if it does
happen, if something does ...
00:53:00.85\00:53:02.41
I have
experiences once in a while
00:53:02.44\00:53:04.55
were I know that
Satan's hand is in it.
00:53:04.59\00:53:07.00
Not necessarily supernatural,
but it could be something else.
00:53:08.03\00:53:12.40
And I have to
rededicate myself to God
00:53:12.43\00:53:15.19
and to accept all over again
the promises that He has made.
00:53:15.23\00:53:18.54
Hi! Please tell us
your name and your question.
00:53:19.25\00:53:21.49
My name is Kailua and
my question is that...
00:53:21.52\00:53:25.78
I have family way back
in Africa and I live here
00:53:26.45\00:53:29.30
and there are days that I'm
not particularly sad or unhappy
00:53:32.64\00:53:38.35
about things, but I might wake
up with a feeling just withdrawn
00:53:38.38\00:53:44.06
and thinking there's something
back home that's wrong.
00:53:45.10\00:53:48.75
And then eventually
I would call back home
00:53:49.40\00:53:51.37
and talked to one
of the family members
00:53:51.41\00:53:53.31
and I would find out
that something was wrong.
00:53:53.35\00:53:55.85
Just somebody had passed away
00:53:55.88\00:53:57.28
or something was
wrong within the family.
00:53:57.32\00:54:00.75
And I just wanted to know if
that was a supernatural contact
00:54:01.21\00:54:06.32
or if it's just something that's
within me that I just perceive
00:54:06.96\00:54:11.55
as being wrong and then it's
just a coincidence that happens.
00:54:11.58\00:54:16.14
Good question.
00:54:16.17\00:54:17.14
I wouldn't think that
it's just something in you.
00:54:17.15\00:54:20.83
It is supernatural.
00:54:22.22\00:54:23.55
But God does
supernatural things too.
00:54:24.00\00:54:25.99
So the question is:
00:54:26.43\00:54:27.90
Is it God that's giving me this
feeling that I need to check
00:54:27.94\00:54:31.99
back at home or is
it some other power?
00:54:32.02\00:54:34.60
And what comes of it?
How often does it happen?
00:54:35.36\00:54:39.21
I think all of us
have had experiences
00:54:39.78\00:54:42.85
where we could say:
'This is not natural'
00:54:42.88\00:54:45.92
But it wasn't evil.
00:54:45.95\00:54:47.72
Nothing bad came of it.
00:54:47.75\00:54:49.49
And God tells us things too.
00:54:50.34\00:54:52.40
He's got His Army and
His Angels that are around us
00:54:53.73\00:54:56.92
and can influence us that way.
00:54:56.95\00:54:58.51
So I would just say
not to get upset over it.
00:54:58.94\00:55:02.48
But if it happens all the time,
then be concerned about it.
00:55:02.52\00:55:07.50
Thank you for your question.
00:55:09.27\00:55:10.69
We just really want to
thank our guests today,
00:55:11.18\00:55:14.52
Lois Stewart and Rick Howard.
00:55:14.55\00:55:16.31
And Rick, we've
just got a short time.
00:55:16.35\00:55:19.11
I was wondering if you could
take just a couple of minutes
00:55:19.15\00:55:21.87
and give us some of
your final thoughts.
00:55:21.90\00:55:24.00
Folks, there's a God in Heaven.
00:55:27.96\00:55:31.01
There's a Heaven to
win and a hell to shun.
00:55:32.43\00:55:35.29
And we're living in a world
where time is winding down.
00:55:36.80\00:55:41.51
Everything is gonna
become more and more intense
00:55:42.59\00:55:46.02
as time goes by.
00:55:46.05\00:55:47.49
And you can feel that.
00:55:47.53\00:55:48.80
I can feel that
right now in the world
00:55:48.84\00:55:50.46
what's happening everywhere.
00:55:50.49\00:55:52.04
It's like good is getting better
but evil is getting more evil.
00:55:52.51\00:55:56.50
And the kind of things that
have taken place in the past
00:55:58.09\00:56:01.54
when we sit back and say:
00:56:01.57\00:56:02.91
"How could human
beings have done that?"
00:56:02.95\00:56:05.12
They're doing it again now.
00:56:05.15\00:56:07.31
It's like the world is coming
again into some final eruption.
00:56:07.89\00:56:11.79
And there is no hope for
anybody without Jesus Christ.
00:56:12.45\00:56:17.58
He came to this world.
00:56:19.12\00:56:21.07
The Father sent Him
because He loved us.
00:56:21.88\00:56:25.28
Jesus came to
this world to save us.
00:56:25.83\00:56:28.85
And He says: '
I've given you a book. '
00:56:29.35\00:56:32.71
If you will look into
this book prayerfully,
00:56:33.74\00:56:36.94
if you will really
determine in your mind
00:56:37.84\00:56:41.07
to learn the teachings that
are in here, I will be with you,
00:56:41.11\00:56:44.88
I will reveal the truth to you.
00:56:44.91\00:56:47.04
If you're willing to put aside
00:56:47.56\00:56:49.25
all these old philosophies
that you used to have.
00:56:49.29\00:56:52.56
Go brand new.
00:56:52.59\00:56:53.89
Go to the Bible like a
babe and begin to study it.
00:56:53.93\00:56:57.75
And the true teachings about
life and death and salvation
00:56:57.79\00:56:58.76
and evil and eternity and hell
00:57:03.42\00:57:07.02
and all of this
stuff, they're all in here.
00:57:07.06\00:57:09.61
But we have to lay aside
our own vain philosophies
00:57:10.34\00:57:14.61
and our own thoughts and
we need to just be able to
00:57:14.64\00:57:19.58
go to this book with
faith in God and trust in Him
00:57:19.61\00:57:24.52
and He will lead us
through this final maze
00:57:24.55\00:57:27.16
that's coming up on the world.
00:57:27.19\00:57:28.94
Thank you, Rick. Amen.
00:57:29.76\00:57:31.82
I was thinking.
Ephesians 6, 12 tells us:
00:57:32.32\00:57:35.46
"Our struggle is not
against flesh and blood, but
00:57:35.50\00:57:38.66
it is against the powers and
the principalities of the err. "
00:57:38.70\00:57:42.62
And what you were just
saying, Rick, made me remember
00:57:42.65\00:57:45.63
this scripture
from 2nd Thessalonians.
00:57:45.66\00:57:48.23
And it's in chapter 2 and
I'm gonna begin with verse 9.
00:57:48.72\00:57:52.82
It says: "The
coming of the lawless one
00:57:53.62\00:57:55.74
is through the
activity and working of Satan
00:57:55.78\00:57:59.34
and will be
attended by great power
00:57:59.37\00:58:03.42
and with all sorts of
pretended miracles and signs
00:58:03.46\00:58:09.18
and delusive marvels,
all of them lying wonders.
00:58:09.22\00:58:14.91
And by unlimited seduction to
evil, with all wicked deception
00:58:15.19\00:58:21.96
for those who are perishing
because -this tells us why
00:58:22.48\00:58:28.96
people perish- they did not
welcome the truth, but refuse
00:58:28.99\00:58:35.44
to love it that
they might be saved. "
00:58:35.47\00:58:39.16
Jesus said that if we
would abide in the truth
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and if His Word abides in
us, we will know the truth,
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and the truth will set us free.
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And whom the son of God
has set free is free indeed.
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Thank you so much
for joining us tonight.
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And Rick, thank you.
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You're welcome. God bless!
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