Participants: Don Mackintosh (Host)<\br> 01. Marti Jones<\br> 02. Jan Morris
Series Code: UC
Program Code: UC000411
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00:25 Hello and welcome to another edition of Up Close.
00:27 We're coming to you from the 3ABN SDA Church in 00:30 Wichita, Kansas, and we have a live audience 00:33 here with us participating. 00:34 We're happy that you're joining us too. 00:36 You know, we live in a world that's falling apart for many, 00:39 even as we speak there are natural disasters, 00:42 if you want to call disasters natural, 00:44 there's political and social unrest, 00:47 there are conventional wars of all kinds, 00:49 and of course there's the threat and the rumor 00:52 of nuclear war. 00:53 All of these things are burdening humanity 00:56 with what I'd call a collective sense of unrest. 01:00 We live in a media age, I think it even complicates 01:03 things more, now don't change the channel 01:04 because of that, but I think it complicates things more, 01:07 because we experience all these things 01:11 in real time, even simultaneously. 01:15 Even more troubling, perhaps most troubling, 01:17 is the breakup of the family. 01:19 No longer are we talking about nuclear families, 01:23 we're talking almost about thermonuclear families, 01:26 there's all kind of unrest. 01:28 Everything that used to be considered normal, 01:32 a father, a mother and children, in a nice house 01:36 with a side walk, now has changed 01:38 and we have a new normal, and that new normal 01:41 unfortunately is fractured families, 01:44 splintered relationships. In today's Up Close 01:46 we're going to be talking about the fallout 01:49 that comes from divorce. 01:51 Now, in this program we're not going to be 01:54 talking about the right or wrong in a divorce, 01:56 we're not going to be taking sides 01:58 with our guests tonight and saying: 01:59 "We're you right? Was your spouse wrong?" 02:02 That probably would not be helpful, but what we're 02:04 going to be talking about is the reality that comes out 02:07 of any divorce, the fallout that's kind of like radiation 02:12 after a nuclear holocaust. 02:15 What happens in the home? What happens to the husband? 02:17 What happens to the wife? 02:19 Tonight there's going to be two things we want to cover, 02:22 we want to talk about the pain that comes from divorce, 02:27 but not only do we want to talk about the pain, 02:29 we also want to talk about a plan. 02:32 Our first guest is Jan Morris from Wichita, Kansas. 02:36 Jan is a registered nurse serving in a management position 02:39 and she's also the mother of two. 02:41 When her husband one night came to her and said 02:44 that he wanted a divorce, she didn't know how to respond. 02:47 Here's what she said when she sat down 02:49 to talk with us earlier. 02:51 After going through that phase of being angry, 02:56 then you go through the sadness really, 03:00 it began to set in. 03:02 I spent a lot of time crying, of course, 03:06 and mourning the loss of, not just a marriage, 03:11 but my whole life the way I looked at it. 03:14 When you get married you envision your future 03:16 all the way to the end. 03:18 I had that picture in my head 03:20 that we would grow old together and retire, the children would 03:23 grow up and these visions of holidays together 03:27 with the grandchildren, then I realized 03:30 that those pictures weren't going to be there 03:32 anymore, that everything has changed, 03:34 that everything that I ever though the rest of my life 03:36 was going to be like, it wasn't that anymore, 03:39 and the sadness set in. 03:44 The children, my children were in junior high 03:47 in high school, I have two daughters, 03:50 and I realized the sadness was really for them. 03:55 When I would be alone and I would think, 03:59 what I would about was happened to them. 04:02 That they were now from a broken home, 04:05 and it was so hard for me to imagine what I had done 04:10 in my mind, what had happened to them 04:12 what we, as a husband and wife, had done to our children, 04:16 how their lives were destroyed, that's how had I envisioned it, 04:19 that their lives were destroyed and now they would 04:21 have this label, you know? They were from a broken home. 04:26 That was almost more than I could cope with, 04:28 that was really the most difficult part for me, 04:31 was recognizing that I would have to 04:34 put the pieces back together in some fashion that still, 04:38 into a whole for my children, but it was going to have to look 04:41 different than what it did before. 04:44 Wow, certainly divorce changes things, doesn't it? 04:47 That clip really summarizes the pain and the reality. 04:51 Well, let's welcome together Jan Morris this evening 04:55 to the program. Welcome Jan. 05:03 First of all, I'd like to welcome you to the program, 05:05 and thank you so much, I mean, it's hard to come 05:06 and talk about many different things, 05:09 but especially something as personal, 05:11 as something that affects your whole being 05:15 when we you talk about divorce, so thank you for having 05:17 the vulnerability to be able to come and talk about that. 05:21 As I listened to that clip, as I saw that, 05:25 I wondered did this all hit at once? 05:27 You talked about how everything was kind of coming 05:29 to an end, it's a pretty sophisticated 05:33 summary of what happened, did that hit at once? 05:36 No, I think what happens is that you're kind of numb 05:39 to begin with. You hear the words 05:42 that your spouse wants a divorce 05:44 and you process it on an intellectual level, 05:47 but emotionally you go numb initially. 05:51 Over time, pieces of it begin to sink in, 05:54 as you have to deal with different aspects of that, 05:57 then you begin to process it bit by bit. 06:00 So many people talk about the time when they 06:03 sign the final papers, or when they receive those, 06:06 or send those, I don't know what the situation 06:09 was in your case, but what was that like? 06:12 It kind of puts a finality to the whole thing. 06:15 I remember after we had the papers, they were signed, 06:19 I'd just sit there and stare at them 06:21 because you don't really believe it's true, 06:24 it's like a dream world that you're in perhaps; 06:27 you think: "Maybe it'll change. " 06:28 "Maybe I can go backwards. " 06:30 But once those papers are signed it's final, and you realize 06:34 that this is your life, this is true, 06:36 and you have to go forward from that point. 06:39 You seem to be like a very outgoing person, 06:42 am I fair to say that? 06:44 I think so. 06:46 We were talking about this, and you said that being outgoing 06:49 isn't necessarily... 06:50 well, let's look what you said here. 06:54 One thing that was difficult was having to redefine myself 06:58 as to who I was as a person. 07:00 When you're married, of course, you're a couple 07:03 and you do things together, you have friends together, 07:06 and you're defined in many aspects by who your spouse is, 07:10 either the husband or the wife, 07:11 but that was no longer true. 07:13 So I had to take a look at who I was as a person, 07:17 and did that have value all by itself? 07:21 I remember sometimes going to the grocery store 07:24 and meeting a couple that, perhaps, we had been 07:26 friends with, gone out to dinner with, 07:28 and having to think: "Was this one of my friends" 07:32 "or is this one of my husband's friends?" and knowing what 07:35 I had told my friends, but not knowing 07:38 how he had communicated to his friends what had happened 07:41 to the marriage. 07:42 It was pretty uncomfortable not knowing, do I even go up 07:45 and say hello to these people, or do I just pretend, 07:48 just walk by, pretend I didn't even see them there. 07:52 I was fairly bold and usually would say "hello", 07:55 but sometimes those were uncomfortable situations 07:57 and I realized that this just isn't going to work 08:00 the way it did before, I'm going to have to find 08:03 a comfort level, I'm going to have to find 08:06 a way of relating on my own to who I am. 08:09 So this outgoing type of thing wasn't really helping maybe? 08:15 Not necessarily. As I said, you have to redefine 08:19 who you are, and the relationships that you have. 08:22 How long did you experience these kind of feelings? 08:25 Like, maybe being worried about what you're going to say, 08:28 how long did that go on? 08:30 Sometimes it still does. I think it's an ongoing process, 08:34 initially, of course, it's more difficult, 08:36 but with time, as you begin to develop your own 08:38 friends it gets a little bit easier, but there's still 08:41 moments in time when I meet people 08:43 or in situations that, perhaps, I would be in normally 08:47 as a couple, those are still difficult sometimes, 08:50 so it's a growth process. 08:52 You said in the clip that sometimes you like 08:54 to just be left alone, was it best to be left alone? 08:58 Sometimes. I think it's a challenge 09:01 for both the divorced person and for their friends 09:04 and family to know when to leave someone alone, 09:07 or when to be with them. 09:09 Too much of either can be bad. 09:12 So people should reach out? You enjoyed people reaching out, 09:15 it's just that sometimes you were with them 09:17 and you felt alone anyway. 09:19 Right. 09:20 But you have to be with people, friends reaching out, 09:24 inviting you places, asking you to be with them, 09:27 that's important to help you get back into the swing 09:30 of things. 09:31 Some that watch this program believe in God, some don't. 09:33 Are you a believer? 09:34 Absolutely. 09:35 Were you ever tempted to blame God? 09:38 I was angry at God. 09:41 I wondered why He allowed this to happen, why He allowed 09:45 this to happen to me and why He allowed my children 09:48 to be hurt, so there was anger and there was 09:52 a questioning as to why this occurred. 09:56 We've talked about the pain, it's real, 09:59 and we need sensitivity. 10:01 It's normal to have the pain, but when we come back 10:03 we're going to be joined by Marti Jones, 10:06 who works in Florida Hospital in Spiritual Care and Nurture, 10:11 and she's going to help us move from the pain to a plan. 10:14 So stay with us, we'll be right back. 10:25 Our topic today fascinates many people and frightens others. 10:31 We will be examining the mysterious powers 10:34 and resources of the supernatural. 10:36 Scientists today are actually detecting evidence of other 10:42 realms and other dimensions beyond the one 10:44 that we all function in every day. 10:47 What was warm and a beautiful experience, 10:49 all of a sudden started becoming a darker experience. 10:52 Next week on up close 10:56 Don't miss it! 11:11 Welcome back to Up Close. 11:13 I'm please to introduce our expert guest this evening, 11:16 Marti Jones, we're glad that you're here. 11:18 Now Marti, you are in Spiritual Nurture at 11:21 Florida Hospital, which means what? 11:24 Which means that I have the privilege of following 11:26 people up who have a spiritual interest. 11:29 I go to their homes and visit with them, 11:31 and have regular studies with them, if that's 11:34 what they'd like. 11:35 Wonderful, we're glad that you're here, 11:36 and we just want to welcome Marti together. 11:38 Let's go ahead and welcome Marti this evening. 11:40 Glad that you're here. 11:42 Well, being from Florida, 11:45 there has been in the past, and maybe in the future, 11:47 there might be some inclement weather 11:49 that comes through there, so we're especially glad 11:51 that you're with us. 11:52 Yes, I'm especially glad I haven't been 11:54 blown away completely. 11:58 We have been talking tonight about divorce. 12:04 I imagine that in your line of work you see a lot 12:07 of physical illness, that right? That's correct. 12:10 But a lot of it is probably related to underlying problems. 12:15 We were just visiting with Jan Morris, 12:18 who shared some of the pain that came as a result of a divorce. 12:22 Is the pain that she's describing, is that normal? 12:25 Very much so. In fact, did you notice 12:29 how she expressed so much similarity 12:32 between the loss of her marriage and even the loss, 12:35 or the death, of a loved one. 12:37 Did you notice that, how similar it was, 12:39 she talked about shock, she talked about denial, 12:42 having to do all this "Why me?", 12:45 the anger, all of that is very normal. 12:48 What other things do a lot of people experience 12:52 that Jan didn't mention? 12:55 Jan, did a good overview of what everyone experiences. 13:00 Additionally, depending on the age of the individual, 13:03 as you know Don, when children are affected 13:06 by divorce, they're pain is different, it is unique 13:09 to them, just like every stage 13:10 of our life we are different people, myself included. 13:14 It's interesting how in ministry sometimes you draw 13:17 from your own experience. 13:19 You had asked previously how many were here 13:22 because they have had a loss in divorce, 13:26 I would say everyone here, everyone who is watching us, 13:29 has been affected by divorce, and I am a product 13:33 of a divorce family. So in my ministry, 13:36 that has helped me to understand and I really believe 13:39 that sometimes you're going to see people 13:41 acting out, for instance, being rebellious, not wanting 13:45 to go anywhere where there's a spiritual environment 13:48 because you heard her say she was angry with God 13:52 for time. So what do people do? 13:54 They say: "I'm not going to go anywhere where God" 13:58 "would be pleased to see me. " And so they stay away, 14:01 and many times this is just a result of pain in their lives. 14:05 You mentioned the children, you mentioned that you 14:09 are from a divorced home. 14:11 Tell me a little bit about the children. 14:13 Do you see these type of things, and what kind of things 14:16 do we need to be concerned about, and at what 14:19 ages perhaps? 14:20 Well, when a child is very young many times, and I'll give you 14:23 an example, in our home we ranged our parents divorce 14:28 from age 14-2. That was a large span 14:32 in difference in age. 14:33 The 2 year old has very little memory at all 14:38 of dad, but the older ones had quite a memory. 14:42 So, we actually were the ones 14:44 who gave her somewhat of a memory 14:47 because we would talk about different things 14:48 that dad would do with us, or how he was when we were young 14:51 and we were a happy family, and then the things that started 14:55 to happen. So a little child may only relate 14:57 by what they hear from a sibling. 15:00 But an older child is taking them very personally. 15:03 In my life, I felt that I couldn't trust men 15:06 because if my father had left home, 15:08 what would keep another man from leaving me? 15:13 I think that plays out in different ways, doesn't it? 15:16 Well, what about the teenager? The teenager, usually, 15:18 will act out rebelliously, and that's very typical of them, 15:22 they're going through that time anyway. 15:25 Teenage years are difficult for every child. 15:29 I sometimes say that children that "escape" that, they really 15:33 never do because they usually have it later on 15:36 in their 20's, but a child that, for instance, 15:39 will refuse to talk about the parent who has left, 15:41 a child who doesn't want to make contact 15:44 with that parent, a child that, maybe, 15:46 acts resentful towards the parent that they're still 15:48 living with, is acting out, is saying: "I'm hurting. " 15:51 "Something is wrong. " 15:53 Just a quest for attention, or maybe trying to get 15:55 mom and dad to come back together through the conflict? 15:59 Sure, through the conflict, and really what they're trying 16:02 to say is: "This is really bad. " 16:04 "This isn't working for me. I'm not happy. " 16:06 Sometimes we'll hear people comment that children 16:09 are resilient, in many ways that is a true statement, 16:12 children are resilient, but I will tell you, my friends, 16:15 that divorce hurts children. 16:18 And it doesn't hurt them for a short time, 16:21 it hurts them for a long time. 16:23 I am 52 years old, and I still at times, 16:26 have to deal with the pain that I felt back when I was 13. 16:30 With all that pain that comes of grieving a loss 16:33 and everything, talk to me about rebound temptations. 16:40 In fact, I can use another example of my own. 16:43 In our family, our oldest son had a very short lived marriage, 16:48 early marriage, and immediately 16:52 there was a need in his life to connect himself 16:55 to a person who would care for him. 16:57 You know that what happens to us when we go through 17:00 a divorce many times has to do with our own 17:02 self-esteem. We feel unlovable. 17:05 If someone left us, it's because we're just not lovable enough, 17:09 we've done something wrong, we haven't made this work. 17:13 And so we almost instinctively seek for someone 17:17 who will accept us and make us feel 17:19 that we are lovable, that we are wanted. 17:21 Doesn't that make sense? Sometimes we do that 17:25 very early, before emotions have had time to heal, 17:29 before, really, we are restored as a whole person and ready 17:32 to give ourselves fully to a new relationship. 17:35 And that's why it's so important to allow time to go by. 17:40 How much time would you say we need to allow? 17:43 Well certainly, I would say a minimum of 3 years. 17:47 I would say in some cases longer. 17:50 People need time to heal. 17:52 Divorce affects us just like the loss of a loved one, 17:55 we are indeed losing a relationship. 17:58 You remember that Jan said how she had envision herself 18:02 all her life with her husband, growing old, 18:06 having the grandchildren over, that is a true loss. 18:11 When she lost that relationship that was truly lose just like 18:14 losing a loved one to death. 18:16 The difference is, of course, with death we have finality, 18:20 with divorce it takes longer sometimes. 18:23 So I say, allow yourself the time. 18:26 It can be really hard to relate to people around us 18:29 after divorce. Listen to what Jan shared with us next: 18:33 Being a fairly outgoing person, I don't ever usually 18:38 have trouble being with people, but in a situation like this 18:44 I remember thinking: "What if someone asks me" 18:47 "something that I just don't want to answer?" 18:50 It's like when any change takes place in your life, 18:53 people are uncomfortable around you as well, 18:55 they don't know whether to say something, or whether to just 18:58 ignore the fact that a major change has taken effect 19:01 in your life. So sometimes it was difficult. 19:06 It was easier sometimes to just go home and stay home. 19:14 Church was sometimes the most difficult for me. 19:17 I would go to church and having been in church 19:21 for all these years with my family, 19:24 my husband being there, everyone, and now my children 19:29 were older, so it was just me at this point, 19:31 and that was really difficult to be there, watching all these 19:35 families together, watching the husbands 19:38 and the wives sitting together in church and sitting 19:40 there alone. That was something that I had 19:42 no idea was going to hit, but I remember, sometimes church 19:46 was very difficult and I would come home, and those afternoons 19:51 after church were some of the most difficult times 19:54 that I faced. 19:57 Not having anyone there to be with, 20:00 knowing that there were other people in family units, 20:02 and even when I was invited home after church, 20:06 my church family is wonderful and I never felt as an outcast 20:10 or felt alone with them, but even going home sometimes 20:14 with other people was hard, because again, here I was, 20:18 this single person in a home, usually 20:23 with other couples all there, and so I still felt alone, 20:26 even when I was with a lot of other people. 20:29 I didn't have someone to go to, it was hard coming home 20:33 from work. 20:36 Having had a really good day, or a really bad day, 20:39 and not having anyone there to share that with, 20:42 and I had to deal with that by myself. 20:45 Well Jan, how was it that you worked through that 20:48 at that time? I mean, you had those feelings, 20:51 but how did you get through it? You were there at someone's home 20:53 and you've been invited... 20:56 I think it's a process, as we said before, 20:59 but I came to the realization after a while, that you have to 21:05 become a whole person all by yourself, and as long 21:09 as you look at yourself as part of a relationship 21:13 as a couple, and half that couple is gone, 21:16 then you can't heal. So you need to begin 21:18 to look at yourself as: "I'm a whole person all by myself," 21:22 "and I have value all by myself, and that God loves me" 21:27 "all by myself. " When you can come to that realization, 21:30 then you can begin the healing process. 21:33 Sounds like that would take some time Marti. 21:35 It takes time, and obviously she has taken the time. 21:38 In fact, that's more, for me, let's me know 21:43 that Jan has healed in many ways, 21:46 in areas that are so important because how we feel 21:49 about ourselves is so important of how 21:52 we project ourselves to others. 21:54 Notice what she was talking about on the tape, 21:57 and how she felt sometimes, even around people, 21:59 that she was alone because she was single 22:02 and everybody was with a couple. 22:05 But once she started to feel whole herself, 22:07 as a person, then she knew she was contributing to that group. 22:11 She was no longer just a single person, 22:13 she was part of the group. 22:15 That's a very healthy response to healing. 22:17 So Jan, was this kind of a deliberate thing, 22:19 you knew what was happening and you said: 22:21 "Ok, this is what's happening, I need to do this. " 22:24 Or did somebody come to you and tell you: 22:25 "You need to do this!" 22:27 I don't think it was either actually, I think it was 22:29 the result of a lot of prayer. 22:31 It was lot of contemplation and prayer, and actually 22:35 seeking the Lord for help, asking what it was I needed 22:40 to do to heal, what process do I need 22:42 to go through? The Holy Spirit, I believe, 22:46 is how I was led to understand those things, 22:49 reading the scripture and understanding, 22:51 so you don't come to that, I think, all by yourself. 22:57 Well, you know, healing takes time 22:59 and we might try a lot of different things to get there, 23:02 but we have another clip that, I think, 23:03 is the defining moment 23:05 for Jan's experience, and we want to look at that 23:08 and see what happened in her healing process. 23:11 The healing really began to take place when 23:15 the realization, when the Lord finally impressed upon me 23:19 that I am not alone. 23:20 I may not have another physical person in this home 23:23 with me, but that He was always there. 23:27 I remember one night, I don't remember what happened, 23:30 but I was lying in bed crying, it was really hard, 23:35 just missing the physical presence of another person 23:38 to be there with me, I remember that night 23:40 I just cried out and I said: "Jesus, just hold me. " 23:45 "Just hold me in your arms because I just need" 23:48 "somebody to hold me" And it was like, it happened, 23:51 I could just feel this presence in that room with me, 23:55 and there was peace there that I hadn't felt before, 23:58 that was probably the turning point 24:00 to when I realized: Yeah, it's going to be hard, 24:02 and it will probably always will be. There will always 24:05 be flashbacks, There will always be times 24:08 or things that will make you remember - "oh what if... " 24:11 or "what would my life be like if I was still married?" 24:14 But it was OK, that no matter what I had to 24:17 go through, that Christ was there right by my side, 24:20 holding my hand. 24:23 That's a beautiful comment, and that's a wonderful 24:27 testimony too of how a higher power, 24:30 how God can be involved, and that's touching. 24:34 Now, let me ask you a question, do you deal with people 24:36 that don't have that resource? 24:38 Yes. 24:39 What would you say to them? 24:40 Well, they certainly need Him. 24:43 The basis is of all love comes from God. 24:47 He is love, and what Jan had discovered 24:50 was that in her moment of deepest pain, 24:53 deepest loneliness and longing, the need to be held, 24:57 to feel the presence of someone with her, 24:59 God responded physically to her, that is a beautiful thing, 25:04 and I believe God will do that to everyone, 25:06 and they don't have to be a church going Christian, Don, 25:10 they need to be someone who says "Lord, I'm hurting," 25:13 "and like Jan, I need to be held right now," 25:16 "I need to feel Your presence Lord. " 25:19 I believe that that is a beautiful opportunity 25:21 for God to reveal Himself to that person who's hurting. 25:25 I never give people empty answers. 25:27 I believe the answer for the world is the Lord. 25:31 When they have the Lord, they will have the things 25:33 that they need. 25:35 Sometimes we're seeking in all the wrong places, 25:38 we go out to movies, we go out to entertainment, 25:41 we try to find everything to drown out the pain, 25:44 instead of saying: "Lord, I'm lonely, 25:46 I need You desperately. " 25:48 And then we find that He does indwell, He does fill us, 25:51 and that He does comfort us in our time of greatest need. 25:54 We started what we're going to talk about even more 25:56 in the next segment, which is, 25:58 we're going to talk about what it is we can do to deal 26:01 with the pain, how it is that we can help others, 26:04 we've been talking with Marti Jones from Florida Hospital 26:07 and when we come back, we'll continue the conversation. 26:10 We hope you'll join us. 26:21 Have you been devastated by a divorce? 26:23 Are you still sorting through all the pain and hurt? 26:26 Are you struggling with a sense of rejection and betrayal? 26:29 If so, we have just the book for you, find hope and healing 26:32 as you read "The Ultimate Survivor". 26:34 For your free gift just write to us at. 26:48 Ask for Up Close Offer Nr. 11. 27:11 Welcome back to Up Close. 27:12 Today we're talking about how we can recover from the pain 27:15 of divorce, and our expect guest is 27:18 Marti Jones from Orlando, Florida. 27:20 She is the hospital chaplain at Florida Hospital. 27:22 That's a rather large institution, you see a lot 27:25 of different people day in day out, 27:27 you're dealing with people in crises and with problems. 27:30 Yes, and I do the ministry of follow up there at the hospital, 27:33 so I visit with people at their homes Don, 27:35 and get to know them personally. I developed relationships 27:38 and friendships through my ministry. 27:40 Now, we've talked about the pain that comes from divorce. 27:44 We've talked about the loneliness, the grieving, 27:46 about different things. We want to talk about 27:48 that a little bit more, but then moving towards a plan. 27:51 How can we help people move from the pain of divorce 27:55 and have a plan of action? 27:58 Well, first of all, let's just back up a little bit, 28:01 because I think it's important to talk about the difficulty 28:04 and the discomfort. 28:05 You will remember on Jan's tape that she was talking 28:08 about her own discomfort. 28:10 The same is true with people who approach her. 28:13 What happens when people encounter someone 28:16 who was married before and now is divorced? 28:19 And it's very difficult for them to just walk up 28:22 and say: "Hey, How are you?" because they know how you are 28:26 and they're imagining all kinds of things, 28:28 and then they're thinking: "Well, you know, I don't want" 28:31 "to start talking to her and maybe find out" 28:33 "that he did a bunch of bad stuff because we were friends" 28:36 "with both of them. " So what happens? 28:38 We pull back instead of continuing forward and saying 28:42 "Jan, how good to see you. I'm so glad to see you. " 28:46 "I'm happy that I ran into you, I wanted to see" 28:48 "how you're doing. " That doesn't take sides, 28:51 it simply says: "I care about you Jan," 28:53 "you're important to me. ", and how meaningful 28:56 that is to a person who's hurting. 28:58 So the first step is simple: show yourself friendly. 29:03 Very very important. 29:05 I like to promote in ministry, that I call it 29:08 "friendship ministry", but I believe that it touches 29:10 every aspect of hurting people. The thing that they need 29:13 the most is a friend. A friend doesn't have to 29:16 take sides, a friend can show themselves friendly 29:19 to both individuals. 29:21 What about the person that says "How are you doing?" 29:24 and the person really tells them? 29:26 Yeah, that's a good thing. You know that that tells me? 29:29 "They think of me more of a friend than I thought. " 29:32 You don't open up like that to someone unless you trust them 29:35 and so I would immediately say: "Oh Jan, I'm so glad" 29:38 "that you trust me enough to tell me how you're" 29:40 "really feeling. I'd like to take a few moments" 29:43 "to have prayer with you for a moment. ", 29:45 or "I would like to take a few moments Jan," 29:47 "just to hear what's really hurting you right now," 29:50 "what you're dealing with right now. " She might say: 29:52 "Right now I'm dealing with my daughters having" 29:54 "such a difficulty because of all this," 29:56 "and just I don't know what to say and I just don't know" 29:58 "what to do, and I'm only 1 parent, I'm not 2." 30:01 Whatever's going on in her life, how wonderful that she would 30:04 open up to me. 30:06 Jan, you work with a lot of people. 30:08 You're in management and nursing, 30:11 and I'm nurse actually, I was a nurse for a number of years, 30:16 now when I was a nurse, there weren't many like me. 30:18 Whenever I came into the room, people would say: 30:21 "You're a nurse?" You know, it was troubling 30:25 at times, but most of the people 30:27 were ladies in that profession, the majority, is that still true 30:32 where you work? That's still true, yes. 30:34 And would you say, are there people that you work with 30:37 that are going through, or experiencing divorce? 30:42 Of course, I have colleagues, 30:44 I have coworkers that are experiencing 30:47 the same things, and many times even our patients 30:50 are going through, not only a physical illness, 30:52 but struggling with issues such as divorce as well. 30:57 As we talked, you and I, before the program, 31:00 you talked a little bit, even in the program, 31:03 about how you're tempted with bitterness over divorce. 31:08 Maybe towards God, maybe towards the spouse, 31:11 maybe towards something else. 31:14 Is this a big issue? 31:16 I believe it has a great potential to destroy 31:19 that person if you allow that bitterness and that anger 31:23 to remain. That is a key to healing. 31:26 When I finally was able to realize 31:31 that God loves me just as I am, 31:34 but He also loves my spouse, He loves him just as much 31:39 as He loves me, and that I have to, 31:43 in some fashion, begin to recognize that 31:45 and to change that relationship from a marriage type 31:49 love relationship, to a Christ-like love. 31:52 So, there's a forgiveness that you have to go through 31:55 with your spouse. You have to forgive yourself 31:59 for the pieces that you felt you played in that, 32:02 forgive yourself for, as I said before, 32:04 the relationship or the issue I had with my children 32:07 and what had happened to them. I had to forgive 32:08 myself for that. 32:10 Then of course, you have to forgive God 32:12 and say: "I know that this was not your choice," 32:14 "but for whatever reason that you allowed this" 32:16 "to happen and You will be there with me through this storm" 32:20 "and get me through. " 32:22 That's beautiful testimony and it sounds like you've 32:24 done that, but was it that easy? 32:28 Oh no. It's not easy and it is still an ongoing process. 32:32 I mentioned earlier that there are things 32:34 that blind side you periodically and I think that with time 32:38 that gets less and less, but you always have to be aware 32:41 that there are going to be those moments, 32:43 that it's still going to be difficult, there are 32:45 still going to be struggles with holidays or family events, 32:48 and when my daughter was married, 32:50 that took a lot to work through that process and to be there. 32:54 But it gets better with time. 32:56 If you keep the Lord at your side, 32:58 you know He's there and you call on Him, 33:03 you can and you will get through whatever comes your way. 33:07 Beautiful testimony. 33:08 What about the children? 33:10 The children, of course, are always foremost, 33:13 especially on the parents' heart and mind, 33:16 and I believe that. 33:18 I love the way Jan expresses herself about her children. 33:22 Her concern in creating that secure home, 33:26 not having things changed completely for them, 33:29 but continue to make the best environment for them, 33:32 is a statement of true love. 33:35 In many ways, I see her placing herself 33:38 in the back seat, so to speak, 33:40 so that she is careful about what's happening 33:42 with her children right now, so no further trauma 33:44 comes to them. 33:45 That is a very loving and very caring way 33:47 to respond. 33:49 Children who have that kind of supportive parent 33:52 are going to do much better, they just are 33:55 because they're going to find that they have the avenue 33:58 in which to express, they see that mom is able 34:00 to express to them, at times, her own pain. 34:03 Sometimes parents are afraid to let their children see them 34:07 weeping, for instance. 34:09 I remember a time in my own life after my father had left home, 34:13 that I walked into the room and my mother was just crying 34:16 and crying and crying and at 13 I really didn't know 34:19 what to say or do, and I kind of went over there 34:22 and I tried in my awkward way: "Mom, are you really OK?" 34:28 I was trying to say something, but I didn't know what to say. 34:33 In her hurt at that moment she just said: 34:35 "Yes, I'm fine, you just go ahead, you go do" 34:37 "your homework, you just go ahead. " 34:39 Well, she didn't mean to push me away, 34:42 she really didn't, she wanted to avoid giving me 34:46 further pain, but my friends, what happened 34:49 was I felt pushed away. 34:50 Do you see what happens to the child? The child feels: 34:53 "I can't comfort my mom. " 34:55 Being family is all about being able to say: 34:58 "Oh honey, I'm hurting so bad right now. " 35:02 "I didn't want this to happen to us, and so," 35:05 "I'm just hurting. Just hold mommy for a moment. " 35:09 That's a beautiful encounter, what does that teach that child? 35:12 When you see overwhelmed like that, when you're crying, 35:16 when you feel like you need me to hold you, you can 35:19 come to me too, and you're tears will be OK. 35:22 And tears are OK because we're hurting 35:25 and it's an appropriate time in life to mourn 35:28 what we have lost. 35:30 A strong parent, and when I say strong 35:32 I'm speaking of a parent that says: "Lord, give me" 35:35 "Your strength. " You know, we're not strong on our own. 35:38 I don't know about you, but I've discovered 35:40 how weak I am. 35:41 When we're hurting, especially when we're hurting, 35:45 we're very vulnerable. We're vulnerable to bitterness, 35:48 to resentments, our anxiety builds up, we become 35:52 different people then we typically would be. 35:56 So we need a spirit inside of us to help us to deal 36:00 with all those emotional feelings. 36:03 You've heard in the Bible about the root of bitterness, 36:06 you remember years ago when we didn't have 36:09 garbage disposals, I don't know about you, 36:11 but my mamma with 6 children, would put this plastic bag 36:15 on the sink and we had to drop 36:16 all the peelings and things in there, you all know 36:18 what I'm talking about? 36:20 We would drop it in there, and at the beginning of day 36:23 everything smelled fine, but towards the evening 36:26 that little bag was getting a little smelly, if you know 36:28 what I mean, and if you pealed a banana, 36:31 and it was fresh, the peal, and you threw it in there, 36:34 it wouldn't be very long before that banana 36:36 would be smelly, that peal, like the rest of the 36:39 garbage in there. 36:40 The same is true, when we resent someone, when we hold 36:43 that bitterness inside of us it's just like that kind 36:47 of garbage. And what happens 36:49 even if the Lord is sending good blessings, something good 36:51 into our lives, it turns rotten inside of us 36:55 because our bitterness doesn't allow us to be thankful 36:58 for the blessings that God's giving, 37:00 so those expressions of sorrow, comforting one another, 37:04 that is helping to get rid of the garbage 37:06 and receive the blessings. 37:10 I think we live in a culture where there's so much divorce 37:12 in the culture, but we've been having a lot of, 37:14 what some people would say is "God talk" as we're talking now, 37:19 which is very appropriate, of course, 37:21 but then you come up with that statistic 37:25 that in Christian churches even, there's the same amount 37:28 of divorce, and the trauma that comes 37:33 from knowing that this is still happening, even in a church. 37:38 Well, they're both Christians and evidently God is not working 37:41 - what do you do to help people that are struggling with that? 37:44 Do you have some way, I noticed that you have 37:47 your Bible with you, as any good chaplain would, 37:51 what do you do to help people through that kind of anger 37:55 and pain that's now directed towards the church and God? 38:00 Well, first of all, remember Don, that we 38:03 of ourselves do not have the wisdom or the discernment 38:07 to figure things out, we really don't. 38:10 Most of us would agree that when we try to take 38:13 care of things ourselves, we end up getting ourselves 38:16 into a corner. Sometimes we smash into a brick wall, 38:20 whatever it is, it happens time and time again. 38:23 The sooner we realize that we need help from above, 38:27 and you're right, the statistics are pretty much even 38:30 for the Christian as it is for the non-Christian 38:33 as far as divorce. 38:34 That tells me something, that tells me 38:36 No. 1, that there's an enemy working on everybody, 38:40 would you agree? Everybody the same. Nobody's exempt. 38:44 Just because you're a Christian, doesn't say that is the Good 38:48 Housekeeping seal of approval, now you're not going to get 38:51 the troubles in your marriage, on the contrary, 38:54 in fact, I really believe that he will attack that 38:57 because is that not the foundation or the strength 39:01 of our society? Aren't our homes, our relationships, 39:05 the things that really nurture the good in our society, 39:08 in these United States? 39:10 I really believe that the attack has been so fierce 39:13 within the Christian community for that reason. 39:16 Now, here's the thing: wisdom does not come form us, 39:20 neither does the understanding. Proverbs is a beautiful 39:23 book in the Bible. 39:25 It really talks about real good counsel and advice. 39:28 Here's one, I'm going to add here because it says 39:32 "My son," but I'm going to say "and my daughter" 39:35 "if you receive my words, And treasure my commands within you" 39:40 "So that you incline your ear to wisdom," 39:44 "And apply your heart to understanding;" 39:47 "Yes, if you cry out for discernment," 39:50 So what do you know? We can even ask for discernment. 39:53 "And lift up your voice for understanding," 39:56 "If you seek her like silver," 39:59 "And search for her as for hidden treasure;" 40:01 "Then you will understand the fear of the LORD," 40:05 "And find the knowledge of God. For the LORD gives wisdom;" 40:09 "From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;" 40:14 "He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;" 40:17 "He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;" 40:21 "He guards the paths the just," 40:24 "And He preserves the way of His saints. " 40:27 "Then you will understand righteousness and justice," 40:31 "Equity and every good path. " 40:34 So what it says to me is if I turn my heart to the Lord, 40:38 if I ask God to give me His wisdom, His discernment, 40:42 after all who established the home to begin with? 40:46 In the beginning, when God created, 40:47 He established the home, the marriage, He said from the 40:51 beginning - a man would leave his father and mother, 40:54 cleave to his wife and the 2 would become 1. 40:57 That unit was not be broken by man; what God 41:01 has put together, let no man put asunder. 41:04 We have messed that up when we tried to keep things 41:07 together ourselves, and we usually end up getting 41:10 ourselves in trouble. 41:12 So, the answer to the question is, 41:15 if it's happening in a Christian church, and people 41:17 are getting divorced then maybe they weren't seeking wisdom 41:20 from God, maybe they weren't looking that way, 41:23 maybe that's why that happens as much in the church 41:26 as in society. 41:27 Well, I would say this, not necessarily so 41:31 because it takes two people to make relationship work, 41:35 doesn't it? 41:36 So there can be a person who is very committed 41:39 and has asked God for wisdom, and if the other partner decides 41:42 that he wants out, or she wants out of this 41:44 relationship, guess what? 41:47 There isn't a whole lot that you and I are going 41:49 to be able to do about that. 41:51 So, sometimes I say to people, rather then trying to say 41:54 who is good and who is bad, then we're back to that again, 41:58 that we need to be careful not to judge that, 42:02 rather to commit ourselves jointly, as a family, 42:06 as a couple, to say from from the beginning: 42:09 "Divorce is not an option for us, we're going to ask" 42:12 "wisdom, discernment of the Lord, we're going to" 42:15 "seek the counsel of our fellow neighbor and friends," 42:19 "and people who have good, strong marriages. " 42:22 "We're going to seek to develop in our relationship" 42:25 "something that is foundational to our home. " 42:28 "And we're going to care for it, by caring for" 42:31 "one another. " 42:33 One thing I want to ask Jan too, how did you deal, 42:38 coming back to something else here, how did you deal 42:40 with family gatherings? 42:42 Holidays were very difficult. 42:47 It's a family time, everybody's together and I had to redefine 42:51 that as well. 42:53 I had to redefine what a holiday meant and that Nr. 1, 42:56 holidays can mean more then just your immediate family, 43:00 that you can do things that are different, 43:02 that you can invite other people who are, maybe, hurting as well, 43:05 and bring them into your home, it's ok to go to someone 43:09 else's home on a holiday. I've been very blessed 43:12 to be invited to other people's homes on holidays. 43:16 So, it's just a matter of you can't go backwards, 43:20 you have to be able to go forwards whether it's a holiday 43:24 or anything else. You have to take a look at: 43:25 "This is what it used to be, but I need to forge forward" 43:29 "with a new future and a new way to make my life. " 43:33 I remember when I moved, I had to move out of my house. 43:37 The last night I was there in that home, I sat 43:40 on the porch, on the patio, and cried. 43:44 My past was behind me, but I had a whole new future 43:48 ahead that I was able to put together 43:50 with my children and to make new memories. 43:53 It might not look like I thought it was going to, but it was 43:56 still going to be alright. We could still forge ahead 43:58 and make new memories that would be just as valuable 44:01 and just as precious. 44:02 We need to see things eventually 44:06 as being in God's control and not ours. 44:10 We can't control people, Jan said it well, you can't 44:12 change someone's heart, you can't change their mind, 44:15 that's why for me, the work that we do 44:18 as citizens together, as Christians particularly, 44:23 for each other and for others outside of the church. 44:26 If we're going to show them the love of God, we need to be 44:29 able to say: "Well, you know what?" 44:30 "Because this relationship is so foundational to your" 44:33 "happiness and to your joy, and because it's going" 44:36 "to produce, by blessing, children who will also then" 44:39 "grow up to create those good, strong relationships," 44:43 "we want to make sure that before that marriage" 44:45 "takes place, that it's strong, that it's going to be strong. " 44:48 I'd rather see them go through a process 44:51 where 3 months down the line they're saying: 44:53 "We decided not to get married. We don't think" 44:55 "we're quite ready right now. " Than, to have something 44:58 later on that's going to creep up and say: 45:01 "Oh, I didn't know that about that person. " 45:04 There's a lot of work that can be done beforehand. 45:07 One last question to Jan before we go to our break, 45:10 and that is: Jan, have you moved 45:13 from the time in your life where you're dealing 45:15 with this pain, you still have some of that, 45:18 but have you moved to a ministry mode? 45:20 Have you been able to help people who have 45:22 gone through or are going through what 45:24 you had gone through? 45:26 I believe that I have reached a point that I can say 45:29 that I know I'm a whole person, I know that I have value, 45:33 and that God has given me a purpose in life. 45:38 That purpose, all of us, whoever we are, 45:44 So I feel very blessed that I have been healed 45:50 in terms of the pain and able to share what 45:54 I've learned, with other people. 45:57 Thank you so much for sharing. It's been a joy to be able 45:59 to interact with you and we're going to be interacting 46:02 now with our audience a little bit. 46:04 Coming up next, we're going to take some questions 46:06 from our live audience, so please stay with us. 46:18 Have you been devastated by a divorce? 46:20 Are you still sorting through all the pain and hurt? 46:22 Are you struggling with a sense of rejection and betrayal? 46:25 If so, we have just the book for you, find hope and healing 46:28 as you read "The Ultimate Survivor". 46:31 For your free gift just write to us at. 46:44 Ask for Up Close Offer Nr. 11. 47:06 Welcome back to Up Close. 47:08 We've been talking today about recovering from the pain 47:11 of divorce. 47:12 We'll take some questions from our audience at this time. 47:15 What's our first question? 47:16 My name is Eugene Pruitt. In my work I'm often 47:19 meeting new people, 47:20 and I'm working if divorce is too touchy, or too personal 47:23 an issue to bring up in an initial meeting or conversation? 47:26 Should try to help then, or wait till later? 47:29 I would say establish a relationship first. 47:32 Divorce is a very private and personal thing. 47:35 It's a private matter and usually people are very 47:37 sensitive about it, you heard Jan express that tonight. 47:41 You want to make sure that you've established 47:43 a relationship first, so that person feels 47:45 comfortable with you. 47:47 I think that's an excellent questions in another sense 47:50 because people can sometimes establish that so quickly. 47:52 Jesus with the woman at the well had that ability, 47:57 sometimes that can happen, it better happen or you're 48:00 in the wrong area. 48:01 Hi, what's your name? What's your question? 48:04 Hi, my name is Kim, and I was wondering 48:06 if you could tell me what specific things 48:09 parents can do to help their children cope with 48:11 the pain and loss of divorce, short term and long term. 48:16 Specific things. 48:17 Well, short term, the first thing is to allow 48:21 the children to mourn with you, that's so important, 48:24 we talked about that tonight when we talked about expressing 48:28 tears and all of that. 48:29 Long term it's really important to continue to provide the 48:33 assurance to your children, in other words in the things 48:37 you say and the things you do things, that says: 48:39 "We're still a family, we're still a home. " 48:43 "We will always be family, we will always have a home," 48:46 "you are secure here even though right now" 48:48 "we're hurting. " That's long term very important. 48:52 Next question, your name, your question please. 48:54 My name is Catherine, I was just wondering, 48:56 what advice can you give to children who's parents 48:59 are going through divorce? How can they heal? 49:03 There again, my friends... time. 49:06 I wish I could make it faster for anybody, but we can't 49:10 go over grief or under grief, we go through grief. 49:15 We can't go it alone, Jan said it tonight, 49:18 we have to do it with Jesus. 49:20 I would say to anyone, make sure daily you're committing 49:24 your pain to Jesus, and then say: "Lord," 49:27 "please help the pain that I'm feeling today, to be" 49:30 "of some good not only to me personally" 49:32 - in other words, for me to learn something from it - 49:34 "but that I might encourage another one" 49:36 "who is going through a similar pain. " 49:38 So be open to talk to your family, to your friends, 49:42 but above all, to Jesus. 49:44 So with the children, do you think that 49:46 spending more time with them is important after divorce? 49:52 Absolutely. In fact, families ought to spend 49:55 intentional time together following any crisis: 49:58 a death, divorce, people moving away from the community 50:02 that you've been very close to and now you're distant. 50:05 It's really important to say, after school, for instance, 50:09 let's say that mom is home, and let's say that you can meet 50:12 after school, like after 4.30 we're going to have a little 50:15 family counsel, we're going to talk about how our day went 50:18 today and how we dealt with some of the things that came up 50:21 because of the pain that we're going through. 50:23 So definitely, you can do that in the evening. 50:25 Spending time together is very important, whether it's 50:28 scheduled or whether you just make it a point as a parent 50:31 with younger children to say: "I'm going to take some" 50:33 "additional time at the park. I'm going to go somewhere" 50:36 "with my kids where they can feel free to talk to me," 50:39 "where they can express what's going on with them. " 50:42 Good question. 50:43 We have another question. 50:45 What's your name, what's your question? 50:47 My name is Susan, my question is, what's 50:50 an appropriate word to say to somebody who is 50:53 contemplating a divorce? 50:56 I think it's important to be very honest with people. 51:00 I would say: "It really hurts me to hear" 51:04 "you say that you're thinking about divorce, because I know" 51:07 "how much it must hurt you. Do you need someone" 51:11 "to share with?", because, my friends, 51:13 all of us go through these experiences, 51:16 and let them know that it hurts you 51:18 just to know that they're hurting. 51:21 That will open a door for them to talk to you. 51:24 When people feel like "Oh, she doesn't understand" 51:27 "my pain, I shouldn't burden her because it's my hurt. " 51:30 You're not burying it, but the Bible tells me 51:32 "don't turn from your own flesh" don't turn from your own flesh, 51:36 so enter into that experience, be willing to walk through 51:39 the hurt with them. Say "I'm here for you. " 51:41 That's what you're saying when you say 51:43 "I hurt for you. " 51:45 Thank you for that question. 51:48 We have another question in just a minute, 51:51 but helping people move through that time period 51:54 by just being there with them, and letting them know 52:00 that being divorced is not going to solve all the problems 52:04 may be important too, wouldn't you say? 52:06 Well, yes. But remember too, Don, 52:08 that it's really important not to make a judgment 52:11 as to what's going on because sometimes you have 52:13 very difficult circumstances. For instance, I think 52:15 of issues of abuse, for example, incest, 52:19 there's a lot of serious issues going on out there 52:23 and we need to be very careful not to move into: 52:27 "Oh, don't do that, that's a horrible thing to do. " 52:29 I happen to think that divorce is tragic, period! 52:32 It's hurtful, it's damaging, all of that, 52:34 but I want to get deeper, I want to know, 52:37 what is it that this person's dealing with, and the only 52:39 way I can do that is make myself available, 52:42 walk with them, listen. 52:44 You ought to listen a whole lot more than you talk, 52:46 a whole lot more. 52:48 Thank you so much for that. Next question please, 52:51 state your name and your question. 52:53 My name is Dennis Tufonic. 52:56 I was involved with a divorce in our family, 52:59 and I was 13, as were you, but my question 53:02 has to do with adult children who's parents 53:07 go through a divorce, how might they relate to those parents? 53:11 It's interesting, pain is different. 53:14 By that I mean that you're able to express it differently 53:17 as an adult, than you maybe as a child, 53:19 when you act out in different ways, 53:21 like behavioral issues or problems. 53:23 But adult children also go through mourning, 53:26 and grieving, when their parents divorce. 53:28 Some people act like: "Oh it's not going to matter," 53:30 "I'll wait till their older and then I'll do it. " 53:32 We still hurt. 53:33 So there really isn't a difference as far as 53:36 that they feel pain, rather is, how we're able to process it. 53:40 I would say that if you, as parents, continue to urge 53:43 them to stay close to you and to be open and talk to you 53:46 about those things, that that is the best thing that you can do 53:49 for an adult child. They will be able to respond to you. 53:53 Do you think that there is a time 54:00 when you need to tell the children, for instance, 54:03 going back to that other question, 54:05 that it's not their fault? 54:07 Oh, absolutely! Absolutely! 54:10 Children, right away, internalize things 54:12 and they think: "I must have done something to make mommy" 54:14 "or daddy mad at each other. " That's how they think, 54:17 they absorb the guilt, and that's a very good point 54:20 that you bring up. 54:21 So sharing with the children right away "you didn't do" 54:24 "anything wrong to cause this. This is something that mommy" 54:27 "and daddy are dealing with, and it hurts us to have to be" 54:30 "going through this, because we love you so much" 54:32 "and we don't want to hurt you, but it was not about you. " 54:36 Yes, that's very important. 54:38 Marti, as we're closing this program, what are some 54:41 final thoughts that you might have 54:42 that you would like to share concerning moving through 54:46 the pain of divorce. 54:48 Well, first of all, let me say how wonderful 54:50 it's been to talk about this topic. 54:52 As you know, it's very personal to me and I will tell 54:56 that my commitment in ministry has been that I believe 54:59 that one came, who could set the world free 55:02 from all of this. And that one was Jesus Christ. 55:06 I believe with all my heart that my work as a Bible worker, 55:09 as I seek to connect people to the world of God, 55:12 that there's the answer to everything that we need, 55:15 the blueprint, if you would, to our homes and family. 55:18 So I believe that if we will commit ourselves daily, 55:22 and say: "Lord, today, bless my home, bless my heart. " 55:26 "Make me the kind of wife, the kind of mother," 55:28 "that I need to be. " 55:30 that God will answer that prayer of faith, and that our homes 55:33 will be better, even just through my influence 55:35 of it - do you understand? 55:37 So daily committing, fighting that good fight, 55:40 rolling up your sleeves and saying: 55:42 "No devil, you can't have my family" 55:44 "because my family is God's family and I'm" 55:47 "going to make every effort to keep them strong" 55:49 "and to keep them faithful to the Lord. " 55:51 It takes a real effort on our part, 55:54 daily committing our hearts and lives to Jesus, 55:57 and I believe that He wants all of us 55:59 to have whole and happy homes. I believe that. 56:02 So I would invite each one of us to recommit our hearts and lives 56:06 to Jesus, and say: "Lord, you make the difference" 56:09 "in our home, I want to start today. ", 56:11 and you will see the doors open, the fellowship, the counselors, 56:16 everything that you need will come together 56:18 because the Lord will set them in your path. 56:21 Thank you so much for that. 56:22 We'd like to thank our guests for being with us. 56:24 First of all I'd like to thank Jan Morris for being with us. 56:27 Thank you for sharing your testimony with us, 56:29 and I'd also like to thank Marti Jones for being with us 56:33 and I'd like to thank you for being with you as well. 56:36 As I've listened tonight, and as you've listened as well 56:40 throughout this program, we've sensed that people 56:43 have pain, but we've also sensed that God has a plan. 56:46 Wherever you are, you may say: 56:48 "I didn't hear anything in that program that helped me. " 56:50 or you may say: "I heard a lot of things" 56:52 "that helped me. ", but wherever you are, 56:54 I want you to just have a picture in your mind 56:56 of a mountain, and there you are 56:59 and you don't know where to go. Maybe the people next to you 57:01 have caused you pain, but I want to encourage you 57:04 to look up to the top of that mountain. 57:06 There's a text in Revelation that pictures Jesus 57:08 on top of a mountain, and you're looking at Him 57:11 and you start to walk up because when you look at Jesus, 57:14 there's no one else that you want to look at 57:16 except for Him. You start walking towards Him, 57:19 and as you're walking towards Him, 57:21 the distance between you and others that He wants to be with 57:24 is getting less and less and less. 57:27 And when you get right next to Him, God has a plan 57:29 for your life, He has people for your life, 57:31 and He'll bring you together at the top of the mountain 57:34 with Him. So wherever you are, 57:37 Jesus is close to you now as you're looking to Him, 57:39 He's looking at you, and when you come together, 57:42 He has a plan and a purpose for your life. 57:44 Thank you so much for joining us, 57:46 thank you Marti for being with us. 57:47 Thank you for joining us on the Up Close program. |
Revised 2014-12-17