Hello and welcome to
another edition of Up Close.
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We're coming to you
from the 3ABN SDA Church in
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Wichita, Kansas, and
we have a live audience
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here with us participating.
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We're happy that
you're joining us too.
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You know, we live in a world
that's falling apart for many,
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even as we speak
there are natural disasters,
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if you want to
call disasters natural,
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there's political
and social unrest,
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there are
conventional wars of all kinds,
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and of course there's
the threat and the rumor
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of nuclear war.
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All of these things
are burdening humanity
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with what I'd call a
collective sense of unrest.
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We live in a media age,
I think it even complicates
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things more, now
don't change the channel
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because of that, but I think
it complicates things more,
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because we
experience all these things
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in real time,
even simultaneously.
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Even more troubling,
perhaps most troubling,
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is the breakup of the family.
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No longer are we
talking about nuclear families,
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we're talking almost
about thermonuclear families,
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there's all kind of unrest.
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Everything that used
to be considered normal,
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a father, a mother and
children, in a nice house
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with a side
walk, now has changed
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and we have a new
normal, and that new normal
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unfortunately is
fractured families,
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splintered relationships.
In today's Up Close
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we're going to be
talking about the fallout
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that comes from divorce.
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Now, in this program
we're not going to be
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talking about the
right or wrong in a divorce,
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we're not going
to be taking sides
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with our guests
tonight and saying:
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"We're you right?
Was your spouse wrong?"
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That probably would not
be helpful, but what we're
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going to be talking about
is the reality that comes out
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of any divorce, the fallout
that's kind of like radiation
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after a nuclear holocaust.
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What happens in the home?
What happens to the husband?
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What happens to the wife?
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Tonight there's going to be
two things we want to cover,
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we want to talk about the
pain that comes from divorce,
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but not only do we
want to talk about the pain,
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we also want to
talk about a plan.
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Our first guest is Jan
Morris from Wichita, Kansas.
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Jan is a registered nurse
serving in a management position
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and she's also
the mother of two.
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When her husband one
night came to her and said
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that he wanted a divorce,
she didn't know how to respond.
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Here's what she
said when she sat down
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to talk with us earlier.
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After going through
that phase of being angry,
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then you go
through the sadness really,
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it began to set in.
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I spent a lot of
time crying, of course,
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and mourning the loss
of, not just a marriage,
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but my whole life
the way I looked at it.
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When you get married
you envision your future
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all the way to the end.
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I had that picture in my head
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that we would grow old together
and retire, the children would
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grow up and these
visions of holidays together
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with the
grandchildren, then I realized
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that those pictures
weren't going to be there
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anymore, that
everything has changed,
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that everything that I
ever though the rest of my life
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was going to be like,
it wasn't that anymore,
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and the sadness set in.
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The children, my
children were in junior high
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in high school, I
have two daughters,
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and I realized the
sadness was really for them.
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When I would be
alone and I would think,
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what I would about
was happened to them.
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That they were now
from a broken home,
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and it was so hard for me
to imagine what I had done
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in my mind, what
had happened to them
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what we, as a husband and
wife, had done to our children,
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how their lives were destroyed,
that's how had I envisioned it,
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that their lives were
destroyed and now they would
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have this label, you know?
They were from a broken home.
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That was almost more
than I could cope with,
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that was really the
most difficult part for me,
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was recognizing
that I would have to
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put the pieces back together
in some fashion that still,
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into a whole for my children,
but it was going to have to look
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different than
what it did before.
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Wow, certainly divorce
changes things, doesn't it?
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That clip really summarizes
the pain and the reality.
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Well, let's welcome
together Jan Morris this evening
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to the program. Welcome Jan.
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First of all, I'd like to
welcome you to the program,
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and thank you so much,
I mean, it's hard to come
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and talk about
many different things,
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but especially
something as personal,
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as something that
affects your whole being
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when we you talk about
divorce, so thank you for having
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the vulnerability to be able
to come and talk about that.
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As I listened to
that clip, as I saw that,
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I wondered did
this all hit at once?
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You talked about how
everything was kind of coming
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to an end, it's a
pretty sophisticated
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summary of what
happened, did that hit at once?
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No, I think what happens
is that you're kind of numb
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to begin with.
You hear the words
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that your spouse wants a divorce
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and you process it on
an intellectual level,
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but emotionally
you go numb initially.
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Over time, pieces
of it begin to sink in,
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as you have to deal with
different aspects of that,
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then you begin to
process it bit by bit.
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So many people talk
about the time when they
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sign the final papers,
or when they receive those,
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or send those, I don't
know what the situation
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was in your case,
but what was that like?
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It kind of puts a
finality to the whole thing.
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I remember after we had
the papers, they were signed,
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I'd just sit
there and stare at them
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because you don't
really believe it's true,
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it's like a dream
world that you're in perhaps;
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you think:
"Maybe it'll change. "
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"Maybe I can go backwards. "
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But once those papers are signed
it's final, and you realize
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that this is your
life, this is true,
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and you have to go
forward from that point.
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You seem to be like
a very outgoing person,
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am I fair to say that?
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I think so.
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We were talking about this,
and you said that being outgoing
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isn't necessarily...
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well, let's look
what you said here.
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One thing that was difficult
was having to redefine myself
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as to who I was as a person.
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When you're married,
of course, you're a couple
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and you do things together,
you have friends together,
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and you're defined in many
aspects by who your spouse is,
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either the husband or the wife,
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but that was no longer true.
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So I had to take a look
at who I was as a person,
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and did that have
value all by itself?
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I remember sometimes
going to the grocery store
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and meeting a couple
that, perhaps, we had been
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friends with, gone
out to dinner with,
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and having to think:
"Was this one of my friends"
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"or is this one of my husband's
friends?" and knowing what
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I had told my
friends, but not knowing
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how he had communicated to
his friends what had happened
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to the marriage.
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It was pretty uncomfortable
not knowing, do I even go up
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and say hello to these
people, or do I just pretend,
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just walk by, pretend I
didn't even see them there.
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I was fairly bold and
usually would say "hello",
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but sometimes those
were uncomfortable situations
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and I realized that
this just isn't going to work
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the way it did before,
I'm going to have to find
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a comfort level, I'm
going to have to find
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a way of relating
on my own to who I am.
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So this outgoing type of thing
wasn't really helping maybe?
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Not necessarily. As I
said, you have to redefine
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who you are, and the
relationships that you have.
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How long did you experience
these kind of feelings?
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Like, maybe being worried
about what you're going to say,
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how long did that go on?
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Sometimes it still does. I
think it's an ongoing process,
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initially, of
course, it's more difficult,
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but with time, as you
begin to develop your own
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friends it gets a little
bit easier, but there's still
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moments in time
when I meet people
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or in situations that,
perhaps, I would be in normally
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as a couple, those are
still difficult sometimes,
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so it's a growth process.
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You said in the clip
that sometimes you like
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to just be left alone,
was it best to be left alone?
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Sometimes. I
think it's a challenge
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for both the divorced
person and for their friends
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and family to know
when to leave someone alone,
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or when to be with them.
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Too much of either can be bad.
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So people should reach out?
You enjoyed people reaching out,
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it's just that
sometimes you were with them
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and you felt alone anyway.
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Right.
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But you have to be with
people, friends reaching out,
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inviting you places,
asking you to be with them,
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that's important to help
you get back into the swing
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of things.
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Some that watch this program
believe in God, some don't.
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Are you a believer?
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Absolutely.
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Were you ever
tempted to blame God?
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I was angry at God.
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I wondered why He allowed
this to happen, why He allowed
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this to happen to me and
why He allowed my children
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to be hurt, so there
was anger and there was
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a questioning as
to why this occurred.
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We've talked about
the pain, it's real,
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and we need sensitivity.
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It's normal to have the
pain, but when we come back
00:10:01.53\00:10:03.62
we're going to be
joined by Marti Jones,
00:10:03.65\00:10:06.01
who works in Florida Hospital
in Spiritual Care and Nurture,
00:10:06.05\00:10:10.56
and she's going to help us
move from the pain to a plan.
00:10:11.01\00:10:14.72
So stay with us,
we'll be right back.
00:10:14.82\00:10:16.94
Our topic today fascinates many
people and frightens others.
00:10:25.53\00:10:30.69
We will be examining
the mysterious powers
00:10:31.08\00:10:34.38
and resources of
the supernatural.
00:10:34.41\00:10:36.92
Scientists today are actually
detecting evidence of other
00:10:36.96\00:10:42.31
realms and other
dimensions beyond the one
00:10:42.34\00:10:44.86
that we all
function in every day.
00:10:44.89\00:10:47.39
What was warm and a
beautiful experience,
00:10:47.59\00:10:49.70
all of a sudden started
becoming a darker experience.
00:10:49.74\00:10:52.61
Next week on up close
00:10:52.93\00:10:55.08
Don't miss it!
00:10:56.10\00:10:58.18
Welcome back to Up Close.
00:11:11.52\00:11:13.32
I'm please to introduce
our expert guest this evening,
00:11:13.36\00:11:16.78
Marti Jones, we're
glad that you're here.
00:11:16.81\00:11:18.62
Now Marti, you are
in Spiritual Nurture at
00:11:18.92\00:11:21.88
Florida
Hospital, which means what?
00:11:21.91\00:11:24.60
Which means that I have
the privilege of following
00:11:24.64\00:11:26.88
people up who have
a spiritual interest.
00:11:26.91\00:11:29.20
I go to their homes
and visit with them,
00:11:29.23\00:11:31.49
and have regular
studies with them, if that's
00:11:31.91\00:11:34.09
what they'd like.
00:11:34.12\00:11:35.21
Wonderful, we're
glad that you're here,
00:11:35.25\00:11:36.78
and we just want to
welcome Marti together.
00:11:36.82\00:11:38.66
Let's go ahead and
welcome Marti this evening.
00:11:38.69\00:11:40.65
Glad that you're here.
00:11:40.68\00:11:42.61
Well, being from Florida,
00:11:42.97\00:11:45.45
there has been in the
past, and maybe in the future,
00:11:45.49\00:11:47.83
there might be
some inclement weather
00:11:47.86\00:11:49.58
that comes through
there, so we're especially glad
00:11:49.62\00:11:51.56
that you're with us.
00:11:51.59\00:11:52.56
Yes, I'm
especially glad I haven't been
00:11:52.57\00:11:54.28
blown away completely.
00:11:54.31\00:11:56.80
We have been talking
tonight about divorce.
00:11:58.82\00:12:03.97
I imagine that in your
line of work you see a lot
00:12:04.65\00:12:07.35
of physical illness,
that right? That's correct.
00:12:07.38\00:12:10.01
But a lot of it is probably
related to underlying problems.
00:12:10.05\00:12:14.91
We were just
visiting with Jan Morris,
00:12:15.49\00:12:17.94
who shared some of the pain that
came as a result of a divorce.
00:12:18.24\00:12:22.75
Is the pain that she's
describing, is that normal?
00:12:22.94\00:12:25.71
Very much so. In
fact, did you notice
00:12:25.81\00:12:29.06
how she expressed
so much similarity
00:12:29.10\00:12:32.32
between the loss of her
marriage and even the loss,
00:12:32.59\00:12:35.36
or the death, of a loved one.
00:12:35.39\00:12:37.26
Did you notice
that, how similar it was,
00:12:37.30\00:12:39.10
she talked about shock,
she talked about denial,
00:12:39.14\00:12:42.13
having to do all this "Why me?",
00:12:42.56\00:12:44.86
the anger, all of
that is very normal.
00:12:45.14\00:12:47.99
What other things do a
lot of people experience
00:12:48.26\00:12:52.04
that Jan didn't mention?
00:12:52.07\00:12:54.56
Jan, did a good overview
of what everyone experiences.
00:12:55.62\00:13:00.08
Additionally, depending
on the age of the individual,
00:13:00.58\00:13:03.86
as you know Don,
when children are affected
00:13:03.96\00:13:06.07
by divorce, they're pain
is different, it is unique
00:13:06.11\00:13:09.25
to them, just like every stage
00:13:09.28\00:13:10.90
of our life we are different
people, myself included.
00:13:10.94\00:13:14.25
It's interesting how in
ministry sometimes you draw
00:13:14.29\00:13:17.57
from your own experience.
00:13:17.60\00:13:19.36
You had asked
previously how many were here
00:13:19.40\00:13:22.69
because they have
had a loss in divorce,
00:13:22.72\00:13:25.98
I would say everyone here,
everyone who is watching us,
00:13:26.13\00:13:29.56
has been affected by
divorce, and I am a product
00:13:29.75\00:13:33.52
of a divorce
family. So in my ministry,
00:13:33.55\00:13:36.41
that has helped me to
understand and I really believe
00:13:36.45\00:13:39.93
that sometimes
you're going to see people
00:13:39.96\00:13:41.85
acting out, for instance,
being rebellious, not wanting
00:13:41.89\00:13:45.35
to go anywhere where
there's a spiritual environment
00:13:45.38\00:13:48.72
because you heard her
say she was angry with God
00:13:48.75\00:13:52.06
for time. So what do people do?
00:13:52.09\00:13:54.44
They say: "I'm not going
to go anywhere where God"
00:13:54.48\00:13:58.10
"would be pleased to see
me. " And so they stay away,
00:13:58.14\00:14:01.73
and many times this is just a
result of pain in their lives.
00:14:01.83\00:14:05.69
You mentioned the
children, you mentioned that you
00:14:05.93\00:14:08.59
are from a divorced home.
00:14:09.50\00:14:11.64
Tell me a little
bit about the children.
00:14:11.86\00:14:13.18
Do you see these type of
things, and what kind of things
00:14:13.22\00:14:16.64
do we need to be
concerned about, and at what
00:14:16.67\00:14:18.99
ages perhaps?
00:14:19.02\00:14:20.57
Well, when a child is very young
many times, and I'll give you
00:14:20.61\00:14:23.88
an example, in our home
we ranged our parents divorce
00:14:23.91\00:14:28.45
from age 14-2.
That was a large span
00:14:28.48\00:14:32.35
in difference in age.
00:14:32.38\00:14:33.94
The 2 year old has
very little memory at all
00:14:33.98\00:14:37.74
of dad, but the older
ones had quite a memory.
00:14:38.16\00:14:41.86
So, we actually were the ones
00:14:42.09\00:14:44.54
who gave her
somewhat of a memory
00:14:44.58\00:14:46.96
because we would talk
about different things
00:14:47.00\00:14:48.71
that dad would do with us,
or how he was when we were young
00:14:48.75\00:14:51.91
and we were a happy family,
and then the things that started
00:14:51.94\00:14:55.07
to happen. So a
little child may only relate
00:14:55.10\00:14:57.61
by what they
hear from a sibling.
00:14:57.64\00:14:59.97
But an older child is
taking them very personally.
00:15:00.15\00:15:03.78
In my life, I felt
that I couldn't trust men
00:15:03.81\00:15:06.44
because if my
father had left home,
00:15:06.72\00:15:08.85
what would keep
another man from leaving me?
00:15:08.89\00:15:11.30
I think that plays out in
different ways, doesn't it?
00:15:13.31\00:15:16.05
Well, what about the
teenager? The teenager, usually,
00:15:16.09\00:15:18.56
will act out rebelliously,
and that's very typical of them,
00:15:18.60\00:15:22.38
they're going
through that time anyway.
00:15:22.41\00:15:24.85
Teenage years are
difficult for every child.
00:15:25.04\00:15:29.27
I sometimes say that children
that "escape" that, they really
00:15:29.75\00:15:33.82
never do because they
usually have it later on
00:15:33.85\00:15:36.33
in their 20's, but a
child that, for instance,
00:15:36.36\00:15:39.13
will refuse to talk
about the parent who has left,
00:15:39.16\00:15:41.90
a child who doesn't
want to make contact
00:15:41.93\00:15:44.04
with that parent,
a child that, maybe,
00:15:44.07\00:15:46.11
acts resentful towards
the parent that they're still
00:15:46.15\00:15:48.84
living with, is acting
out, is saying: "I'm hurting. "
00:15:48.87\00:15:51.53
"Something is wrong. "
00:15:51.56\00:15:53.15
Just a quest for attention,
or maybe trying to get
00:15:53.44\00:15:55.58
mom and dad to come back
together through the conflict?
00:15:55.95\00:15:59.10
Sure, through the conflict,
and really what they're trying
00:15:59.13\00:16:02.25
to say is:
"This is really bad. "
00:16:02.28\00:16:04.38
"This isn't working
for me. I'm not happy. "
00:16:04.42\00:16:06.79
Sometimes we'll hear
people comment that children
00:16:06.83\00:16:09.96
are resilient, in many
ways that is a true statement,
00:16:09.99\00:16:12.93
children are resilient, but
I will tell you, my friends,
00:16:12.96\00:16:15.87
that divorce hurts children.
00:16:15.90\00:16:18.56
And it doesn't hurt
them for a short time,
00:16:18.60\00:16:20.95
it hurts them for a long time.
00:16:21.10\00:16:23.07
I am 52 years old,
and I still at times,
00:16:23.21\00:16:26.19
have to deal with the pain
that I felt back when I was 13.
00:16:26.23\00:16:29.89
With all that pain that
comes of grieving a loss
00:16:30.35\00:16:33.84
and everything, talk to
me about rebound temptations.
00:16:33.88\00:16:38.24
In fact, I can use
another example of my own.
00:16:40.19\00:16:42.95
In our family, our oldest son
had a very short lived marriage,
00:16:43.58\00:16:48.48
early marriage, and immediately
00:16:48.51\00:16:52.14
there was a need in
his life to connect himself
00:16:52.32\00:16:55.12
to a person who
would care for him.
00:16:55.15\00:16:56.96
You know that what
happens to us when we go through
00:16:57.30\00:17:00.08
a divorce many times
has to do with our own
00:17:00.11\00:17:02.15
self-esteem. We feel unlovable.
00:17:02.18\00:17:05.70
If someone left us, it's because
we're just not lovable enough,
00:17:05.98\00:17:09.57
we've done something wrong,
we haven't made this work.
00:17:09.60\00:17:13.27
And so we almost
instinctively seek for someone
00:17:13.46\00:17:17.32
who will accept
us and make us feel
00:17:17.35\00:17:19.67
that we are
lovable, that we are wanted.
00:17:19.71\00:17:21.90
Doesn't that make
sense? Sometimes we do that
00:17:21.94\00:17:25.27
very early, before
emotions have had time to heal,
00:17:25.31\00:17:29.44
before, really, we are restored
as a whole person and ready
00:17:29.59\00:17:32.74
to give ourselves
fully to a new relationship.
00:17:32.77\00:17:35.84
And that's why it's so important
to allow time to go by.
00:17:35.94\00:17:39.66
How much time would
you say we need to allow?
00:17:40.64\00:17:42.98
Well certainly, I would
say a minimum of 3 years.
00:17:43.11\00:17:47.32
I would say in
some cases longer.
00:17:47.35\00:17:50.07
People need time to heal.
00:17:50.24\00:17:52.40
Divorce affects us just
like the loss of a loved one,
00:17:52.75\00:17:55.85
we are indeed
losing a relationship.
00:17:55.88\00:17:58.53
You remember that Jan said
how she had envision herself
00:17:58.57\00:18:02.73
all her life with
her husband, growing old,
00:18:02.76\00:18:06.61
having the grandchildren
over, that is a true loss.
00:18:06.91\00:18:10.77
When she lost that relationship
that was truly lose just like
00:18:11.10\00:18:14.43
losing a loved one to death.
00:18:14.46\00:18:16.44
The difference is, of course,
with death we have finality,
00:18:16.48\00:18:20.15
with divorce it
takes longer sometimes.
00:18:20.18\00:18:22.99
So I say, allow
yourself the time.
00:18:23.02\00:18:25.77
It can be really hard to
relate to people around us
00:18:26.28\00:18:29.84
after divorce. Listen to
what Jan shared with us next:
00:18:29.87\00:18:33.40
Being a fairly outgoing
person, I don't ever usually
00:18:33.60\00:18:38.68
have trouble being with people,
but in a situation like this
00:18:38.72\00:18:43.74
I remember thinking:
"What if someone asks me"
00:18:44.85\00:18:47.35
"something that I
just don't want to answer?"
00:18:47.39\00:18:49.86
It's like when any
change takes place in your life,
00:18:50.23\00:18:52.97
people are uncomfortable
around you as well,
00:18:53.00\00:18:55.49
they don't know whether to say
something, or whether to just
00:18:55.65\00:18:58.24
ignore the fact that a
major change has taken effect
00:18:58.27\00:19:01.59
in your life. So
sometimes it was difficult.
00:19:01.62\00:19:04.73
It was easier sometimes to
just go home and stay home.
00:19:06.55\00:19:10.93
Church was sometimes
the most difficult for me.
00:19:14.03\00:19:17.48
I would go to church
and having been in church
00:19:17.52\00:19:20.94
for all these
years with my family,
00:19:21.14\00:19:23.39
my husband being there,
everyone, and now my children
00:19:24.83\00:19:29.03
were older, so it was
just me at this point,
00:19:29.06\00:19:31.65
and that was really difficult
to be there, watching all these
00:19:31.69\00:19:35.60
families together,
watching the husbands
00:19:35.63\00:19:37.97
and the wives sitting
together in church and sitting
00:19:38.01\00:19:40.83
there alone. That
was something that I had
00:19:40.86\00:19:42.42
no idea was going to hit,
but I remember, sometimes church
00:19:42.46\00:19:46.91
was very difficult and I would
come home, and those afternoons
00:19:46.94\00:19:51.36
after church were some
of the most difficult times
00:19:51.39\00:19:54.71
that I faced.
00:19:54.74\00:19:56.41
Not having
anyone there to be with,
00:19:57.48\00:20:00.28
knowing that there were
other people in family units,
00:20:00.32\00:20:02.63
and even when I was
invited home after church,
00:20:02.66\00:20:05.80
my church family is wonderful
and I never felt as an outcast
00:20:06.18\00:20:10.45
or felt alone with them,
but even going home sometimes
00:20:10.48\00:20:14.64
with other people was
hard, because again, here I was,
00:20:14.68\00:20:18.81
this single
person in a home, usually
00:20:18.84\00:20:23.26
with other couples all there,
and so I still felt alone,
00:20:23.30\00:20:26.24
even when I was with
a lot of other people.
00:20:26.27\00:20:29.26
I didn't have someone to
go to, it was hard coming home
00:20:29.93\00:20:33.50
from work.
00:20:33.53\00:20:35.25
Having had a really good
day, or a really bad day,
00:20:36.15\00:20:39.14
and not having anyone
there to share that with,
00:20:39.45\00:20:42.26
and I had to deal
with that by myself.
00:20:42.57\00:20:45.62
Well Jan, how was it
that you worked through that
00:20:45.71\00:20:48.57
at that time? I mean,
you had those feelings,
00:20:48.61\00:20:51.40
but how did you get through it?
You were there at someone's home
00:20:51.44\00:20:53.71
and you've been invited...
00:20:53.74\00:20:55.87
I think it's a
process, as we said before,
00:20:56.38\00:20:59.67
but I came to the realization
after a while, that you have to
00:20:59.71\00:21:04.34
become a whole person
all by yourself, and as long
00:21:05.32\00:21:09.48
as you look at yourself
as part of a relationship
00:21:09.52\00:21:13.65
as a couple, and
half that couple is gone,
00:21:13.68\00:21:16.24
then you can't
heal. So you need to begin
00:21:16.47\00:21:18.77
to look at yourself as: "I'm
a whole person all by myself,"
00:21:18.81\00:21:22.83
"and I have value all by
myself, and that God loves me"
00:21:22.87\00:21:26.86
"all by myself. " When you
can come to that realization,
00:21:27.05\00:21:30.60
then you can begin
the healing process.
00:21:30.63\00:21:32.98
Sounds like that
would take some time Marti.
00:21:33.67\00:21:35.38
It takes time, and obviously
she has taken the time.
00:21:35.44\00:21:38.91
In fact, that's
more, for me, let's me know
00:21:38.94\00:21:43.95
that Jan has
healed in many ways,
00:21:43.98\00:21:46.46
in areas that are so
important because how we feel
00:21:46.50\00:21:49.40
about ourselves is
so important of how
00:21:49.43\00:21:52.19
we project ourselves to others.
00:21:52.22\00:21:54.31
Notice what she was
talking about on the tape,
00:21:54.56\00:21:57.17
and how she felt
sometimes, even around people,
00:21:57.20\00:21:59.78
that she was alone
because she was single
00:21:59.81\00:22:02.74
and everybody was with a couple.
00:22:02.77\00:22:04.55
But once she started
to feel whole herself,
00:22:05.08\00:22:07.59
as a person, then she knew she
was contributing to that group.
00:22:07.63\00:22:11.93
She was no longer
just a single person,
00:22:11.96\00:22:13.96
she was part of the group.
00:22:13.99\00:22:15.68
That's a very
healthy response to healing.
00:22:15.78\00:22:17.90
So Jan, was this kind
of a deliberate thing,
00:22:17.93\00:22:19.78
you knew what was
happening and you said:
00:22:19.82\00:22:21.60
"Ok, this is what's
happening, I need to do this. "
00:22:21.64\00:22:24.43
Or did somebody
come to you and tell you:
00:22:24.46\00:22:25.80
"You need to do this!"
00:22:25.83\00:22:27.48
I don't think it was
either actually, I think it was
00:22:27.56\00:22:29.67
the result of a lot of prayer.
00:22:29.70\00:22:31.50
It was lot of contemplation
and prayer, and actually
00:22:31.58\00:22:35.12
seeking the Lord for help,
asking what it was I needed
00:22:35.94\00:22:40.60
to do to heal,
what process do I need
00:22:40.63\00:22:42.85
to go through? The
Holy Spirit, I believe,
00:22:42.89\00:22:46.30
is how I was led to
understand those things,
00:22:46.34\00:22:49.02
reading the
scripture and understanding,
00:22:49.06\00:22:51.67
so you don't come to
that, I think, all by yourself.
00:22:51.71\00:22:55.54
Well, you know,
healing takes time
00:22:57.16\00:22:59.28
and we might try a lot of
different things to get there,
00:22:59.32\00:23:02.07
but we have
another clip that, I think,
00:23:02.10\00:23:03.78
is the defining moment
00:23:03.81\00:23:05.60
for Jan's experience,
and we want to look at that
00:23:05.64\00:23:08.09
and see what happened
in her healing process.
00:23:08.18\00:23:11.46
The healing really
began to take place when
00:23:11.49\00:23:14.74
the realization, when the
Lord finally impressed upon me
00:23:15.23\00:23:19.34
that I am not alone.
00:23:19.49\00:23:20.95
I may not have another
physical person in this home
00:23:20.99\00:23:23.95
with me, but that
He was always there.
00:23:23.98\00:23:26.92
I remember one night, I
don't remember what happened,
00:23:27.60\00:23:30.76
but I was lying in bed
crying, it was really hard,
00:23:30.79\00:23:33.92
just missing the physical
presence of another person
00:23:35.72\00:23:38.31
to be there with me,
I remember that night
00:23:38.34\00:23:40.54
I just cried out and I
said: "Jesus, just hold me. "
00:23:40.58\00:23:45.24
"Just hold me in your
arms because I just need"
00:23:45.27\00:23:48.45
"somebody to hold me"
And it was like, it happened,
00:23:48.49\00:23:51.71
I could just feel this
presence in that room with me,
00:23:51.74\00:23:55.01
and there was peace there
that I hadn't felt before,
00:23:55.04\00:23:58.28
that was
probably the turning point
00:23:58.31\00:24:00.55
to when I realized:
Yeah, it's going to be hard,
00:24:00.59\00:24:02.89
and it will probably always
will be. There will always
00:24:02.93\00:24:05.40
be flashbacks,
There will always be times
00:24:05.43\00:24:08.26
or things that will make
you remember - "oh what if... "
00:24:08.30\00:24:11.36
or "what would my life be
like if I was still married?"
00:24:11.39\00:24:14.42
But it was OK, that
no matter what I had to
00:24:14.47\00:24:17.29
go through, that Christ
was there right by my side,
00:24:17.33\00:24:20.82
holding my hand.
00:24:20.85\00:24:22.95
That's a beautiful
comment, and that's a wonderful
00:24:23.45\00:24:27.09
testimony too of
how a higher power,
00:24:27.12\00:24:30.61
how God can be
involved, and that's touching.
00:24:30.65\00:24:33.87
Now, let me ask you a question,
do you deal with people
00:24:34.08\00:24:36.12
that don't have that resource?
00:24:36.15\00:24:37.94
Yes.
00:24:38.34\00:24:39.63
What would you say to them?
00:24:39.67\00:24:40.89
Well, they certainly need Him.
00:24:40.95\00:24:43.19
The basis is of all
love comes from God.
00:24:43.81\00:24:47.31
He is love, and
what Jan had discovered
00:24:47.67\00:24:50.28
was that in her
moment of deepest pain,
00:24:50.31\00:24:52.89
deepest loneliness and
longing, the need to be held,
00:24:53.38\00:24:57.23
to feel the
presence of someone with her,
00:24:57.26\00:24:59.91
God responded physically to
her, that is a beautiful thing,
00:24:59.95\00:25:04.04
and I believe God
will do that to everyone,
00:25:04.07\00:25:06.50
and they don't have to be a
church going Christian, Don,
00:25:06.54\00:25:10.12
they need to be someone
who says "Lord, I'm hurting,"
00:25:10.30\00:25:13.71
"and like Jan, I need
to be held right now,"
00:25:13.92\00:25:16.87
"I need to feel
Your presence Lord. "
00:25:16.90\00:25:19.25
I believe that that is
a beautiful opportunity
00:25:19.29\00:25:21.43
for God to reveal Himself
to that person who's hurting.
00:25:21.47\00:25:24.88
I never give
people empty answers.
00:25:25.00\00:25:27.81
I believe the answer
for the world is the Lord.
00:25:27.85\00:25:31.15
When they have the Lord,
they will have the things
00:25:31.24\00:25:33.83
that they need.
00:25:33.86\00:25:34.96
Sometimes we're seeking
in all the wrong places,
00:25:35.00\00:25:38.01
we go out to movies, we
go out to entertainment,
00:25:38.98\00:25:41.53
we try to find everything
to drown out the pain,
00:25:41.57\00:25:44.09
instead of
saying: "Lord, I'm lonely,
00:25:44.48\00:25:46.53
I need You desperately. "
00:25:46.57\00:25:47.98
And then we find that He
does indwell, He does fill us,
00:25:48.01\00:25:51.25
and that He does comfort us
in our time of greatest need.
00:25:51.28\00:25:54.28
We started what we're
going to talk about even more
00:25:54.31\00:25:56.75
in the next segment, which is,
00:25:56.78\00:25:58.81
we're going to talk about
what it is we can do to deal
00:25:58.94\00:26:01.84
with the pain, how it
is that we can help others,
00:26:01.87\00:26:04.92
we've been talking with Marti
Jones from Florida Hospital
00:26:04.96\00:26:07.67
and when we come back,
we'll continue the conversation.
00:26:07.70\00:26:10.38
We hope you'll join us.
00:26:10.41\00:26:12.52
Have you been
devastated by a divorce?
00:26:21.47\00:26:23.35
Are you still sorting
through all the pain and hurt?
00:26:23.44\00:26:26.04
Are you struggling with a
sense of rejection and betrayal?
00:26:26.08\00:26:29.17
If so, we have just the book
for you, find hope and healing
00:26:29.20\00:26:32.26
as you read "The
Ultimate Survivor".
00:26:32.29\00:26:34.68
For your free gift
just write to us at.
00:26:34.72\00:26:37.82
Ask for Up Close Offer Nr. 11.
00:26:48.04\00:26:51.51
Welcome back to Up Close.
00:27:11.10\00:27:12.35
Today we're talking about
how we can recover from the pain
00:27:12.39\00:27:15.77
of divorce, and
our expect guest is
00:27:15.80\00:27:18.03
Marti Jones from
Orlando, Florida.
00:27:18.07\00:27:20.27
She is the hospital
chaplain at Florida Hospital.
00:27:20.33\00:27:22.72
That's a rather large
institution, you see a lot
00:27:22.76\00:27:25.12
of different
people day in day out,
00:27:25.15\00:27:27.46
you're dealing with people
in crises and with problems.
00:27:27.50\00:27:30.05
Yes, and I do the ministry of
follow up there at the hospital,
00:27:30.09\00:27:33.62
so I visit with
people at their homes Don,
00:27:33.65\00:27:35.76
and get to know them personally.
I developed relationships
00:27:35.80\00:27:38.61
and friendships
through my ministry.
00:27:38.64\00:27:40.90
Now, we've talked about the
pain that comes from divorce.
00:27:40.95\00:27:43.99
We've talked about the
loneliness, the grieving,
00:27:44.02\00:27:46.25
about different
things. We want to talk about
00:27:46.28\00:27:48.48
that a little bit more,
but then moving towards a plan.
00:27:48.57\00:27:51.83
How can we help people
move from the pain of divorce
00:27:51.87\00:27:55.10
and have a plan of action?
00:27:55.52\00:27:58.63
Well, first of all, let's
just back up a little bit,
00:27:58.93\00:28:01.11
because I think it's important
to talk about the difficulty
00:28:01.15\00:28:04.15
and the discomfort.
00:28:04.18\00:28:05.54
You will remember on
Jan's tape that she was talking
00:28:05.61\00:28:08.27
about her own discomfort.
00:28:08.30\00:28:10.53
The same is true with
people who approach her.
00:28:10.74\00:28:13.57
What happens when
people encounter someone
00:28:13.63\00:28:16.42
who was married
before and now is divorced?
00:28:16.45\00:28:19.21
And it's very difficult
for them to just walk up
00:28:19.40\00:28:22.00
and say: "Hey, How are you?"
because they know how you are
00:28:22.04\00:28:26.15
and they're
imagining all kinds of things,
00:28:26.52\00:28:28.43
and then they're thinking:
"Well, you know, I don't want"
00:28:28.47\00:28:31.17
"to start talking to
her and maybe find out"
00:28:31.20\00:28:33.74
"that he did a bunch of bad
stuff because we were friends"
00:28:33.78\00:28:36.11
"with both of
them. " So what happens?
00:28:36.14\00:28:38.32
We pull back instead of
continuing forward and saying
00:28:38.36\00:28:42.59
"Jan, how good to see
you. I'm so glad to see you. "
00:28:42.74\00:28:45.91
"I'm happy that I ran
into you, I wanted to see"
00:28:46.08\00:28:48.63
"how you're doing. "
That doesn't take sides,
00:28:48.66\00:28:51.18
it simply says: "I
care about you Jan,"
00:28:51.27\00:28:53.85
"you're important to
me. ", and how meaningful
00:28:53.89\00:28:56.63
that is to a
person who's hurting.
00:28:56.66\00:28:58.81
So the first step is
simple: show yourself friendly.
00:28:58.85\00:29:02.88
Very very important.
00:29:03.22\00:29:05.15
I like to promote in
ministry, that I call it
00:29:05.19\00:29:08.11
"friendship ministry",
but I believe that it touches
00:29:08.15\00:29:10.81
every aspect of hurting
people. The thing that they need
00:29:10.85\00:29:13.48
the most is a friend.
A friend doesn't have to
00:29:13.51\00:29:16.52
take sides, a friend
can show themselves friendly
00:29:16.56\00:29:19.54
to both individuals.
00:29:19.57\00:29:21.50
What about the person
that says "How are you doing?"
00:29:21.54\00:29:24.03
and the person
really tells them?
00:29:24.06\00:29:26.11
Yeah, that's a good thing.
You know that that tells me?
00:29:26.31\00:29:29.56
"They think of me more of
a friend than I thought. "
00:29:29.59\00:29:32.81
You don't open up like that
to someone unless you trust them
00:29:32.96\00:29:35.64
and so I would immediately
say: "Oh Jan, I'm so glad"
00:29:35.67\00:29:38.29
"that you trust me
enough to tell me how you're"
00:29:38.32\00:29:40.81
"really feeling. I'd
like to take a few moments"
00:29:40.85\00:29:43.31
"to have prayer
with you for a moment. ",
00:29:43.34\00:29:45.47
or "I would like to
take a few moments Jan,"
00:29:45.51\00:29:47.57
"just to hear what's
really hurting you right now,"
00:29:47.61\00:29:50.03
"what you're dealing with
right now. " She might say:
00:29:50.06\00:29:52.45
"Right now I'm dealing
with my daughters having"
00:29:52.55\00:29:54.62
"such a difficulty
because of all this,"
00:29:54.65\00:29:56.83
"and just I don't know what
to say and I just don't know"
00:29:56.87\00:29:58.77
"what to do, and I'm
only 1 parent, I'm not 2."
00:29:58.80\00:30:01.69
Whatever's going on in her life,
how wonderful that she would
00:30:01.73\00:30:04.57
open up to me.
00:30:04.60\00:30:05.95
Jan, you work
with a lot of people.
00:30:06.54\00:30:08.42
You're in
management and nursing,
00:30:08.88\00:30:11.32
and I'm nurse actually, I was
a nurse for a number of years,
00:30:11.58\00:30:15.85
now when I was a nurse,
there weren't many like me.
00:30:16.04\00:30:18.66
Whenever I came into
the room, people would say:
00:30:18.83\00:30:21.20
"You're a nurse?" You
know, it was troubling
00:30:21.45\00:30:25.31
at times, but most of the people
00:30:25.34\00:30:27.57
were ladies in that profession,
the majority, is that still true
00:30:27.98\00:30:32.62
where you work?
That's still true, yes.
00:30:32.65\00:30:34.63
And would you say, are
there people that you work with
00:30:34.67\00:30:37.95
that are going through,
or experiencing divorce?
00:30:37.98\00:30:42.37
Of course, I have colleagues,
00:30:42.52\00:30:44.37
I have coworkers
that are experiencing
00:30:44.41\00:30:47.72
the same things, and
many times even our patients
00:30:47.76\00:30:50.04
are going through, not
only a physical illness,
00:30:50.25\00:30:52.82
but struggling with
issues such as divorce as well.
00:30:52.85\00:30:55.39
As we talked, you and
I, before the program,
00:30:57.26\00:30:59.52
you talked a little
bit, even in the program,
00:31:00.51\00:31:03.16
about how you're tempted
with bitterness over divorce.
00:31:03.20\00:31:08.83
Maybe towards God,
maybe towards the spouse,
00:31:08.86\00:31:11.36
maybe towards something else.
00:31:11.39\00:31:13.93
Is this a big issue?
00:31:14.26\00:31:16.22
I believe it has a
great potential to destroy
00:31:16.26\00:31:19.91
that person if you allow
that bitterness and that anger
00:31:19.95\00:31:23.07
to remain. That
is a key to healing.
00:31:23.10\00:31:26.71
When I finally
was able to realize
00:31:26.74\00:31:29.49
that God loves me just as I am,
00:31:31.74\00:31:34.27
but He also loves my spouse,
He loves him just as much
00:31:34.47\00:31:39.90
as He loves me,
and that I have to,
00:31:39.93\00:31:42.98
in some fashion,
begin to recognize that
00:31:43.02\00:31:45.82
and to change that relationship
from a marriage type
00:31:45.86\00:31:49.40
love relationship,
to a Christ-like love.
00:31:49.43\00:31:51.99
So, there's a forgiveness
that you have to go through
00:31:52.04\00:31:54.92
with your spouse. You
have to forgive yourself
00:31:55.91\00:31:58.99
for the pieces that you
felt you played in that,
00:31:59.03\00:32:02.08
forgive yourself
for, as I said before,
00:32:02.11\00:32:04.09
the relationship or the
issue I had with my children
00:32:04.30\00:32:06.77
and what had happened
to them. I had to forgive
00:32:07.02\00:32:08.81
myself for that.
00:32:08.84\00:32:10.42
Then of course,
you have to forgive God
00:32:10.60\00:32:12.25
and say: "I know that
this was not your choice,"
00:32:12.29\00:32:14.54
"but for whatever
reason that you allowed this"
00:32:14.57\00:32:16.75
"to happen and You will be there
with me through this storm"
00:32:16.79\00:32:20.45
"and get me through. "
00:32:20.48\00:32:22.13
That's beautiful testimony
and it sounds like you've
00:32:22.18\00:32:24.80
done that, but was it that easy?
00:32:24.83\00:32:28.03
Oh no. It's not easy and it
is still an ongoing process.
00:32:28.07\00:32:32.52
I mentioned earlier
that there are things
00:32:32.55\00:32:34.59
that blind side you periodically
and I think that with time
00:32:34.63\00:32:38.20
that gets less and less,
but you always have to be aware
00:32:38.23\00:32:41.77
that there are
going to be those moments,
00:32:41.80\00:32:43.51
that it's still going
to be difficult, there are
00:32:43.55\00:32:45.32
still going to be struggles
with holidays or family events,
00:32:45.36\00:32:48.65
and when my
daughter was married,
00:32:48.85\00:32:50.63
that took a lot to work through
that process and to be there.
00:32:50.67\00:32:54.44
But it gets better with time.
00:32:54.47\00:32:55.98
If you keep the
Lord at your side,
00:32:56.55\00:32:58.38
you know He's there
and you call on Him,
00:32:58.81\00:33:03.06
you can and you will get
through whatever comes your way.
00:33:03.18\00:33:06.55
Beautiful testimony.
00:33:07.05\00:33:08.67
What about the children?
00:33:08.73\00:33:10.60
The children, of
course, are always foremost,
00:33:10.64\00:33:13.43
especially on the
parents' heart and mind,
00:33:13.47\00:33:16.23
and I believe that.
00:33:16.50\00:33:17.98
I love the way Jan expresses
herself about her children.
00:33:18.76\00:33:22.56
Her concern in
creating that secure home,
00:33:22.88\00:33:26.02
not having things
changed completely for them,
00:33:26.91\00:33:29.59
but continue to make the
best environment for them,
00:33:29.63\00:33:32.44
is a statement of true love.
00:33:32.87\00:33:35.10
In many ways, I
see her placing herself
00:33:35.23\00:33:38.22
in the back seat, so to speak,
00:33:38.37\00:33:40.26
so that she is
careful about what's happening
00:33:40.30\00:33:42.52
with her children right
now, so no further trauma
00:33:42.55\00:33:44.74
comes to them.
00:33:44.77\00:33:45.83
That is a very
loving and very caring way
00:33:45.87\00:33:47.72
to respond.
00:33:47.75\00:33:48.85
Children who have that
kind of supportive parent
00:33:49.03\00:33:52.38
are going to do much
better, they just are
00:33:52.63\00:33:55.23
because they're going to
find that they have the avenue
00:33:55.27\00:33:58.14
in which to express,
they see that mom is able
00:33:58.17\00:34:00.83
to express to them,
at times, her own pain.
00:34:00.87\00:34:03.50
Sometimes parents are afraid
to let their children see them
00:34:03.59\00:34:07.43
weeping, for instance.
00:34:07.46\00:34:08.86
I remember a time in my own life
after my father had left home,
00:34:09.19\00:34:13.24
that I walked into the room
and my mother was just crying
00:34:13.39\00:34:16.42
and crying and crying and
at 13 I really didn't know
00:34:16.45\00:34:19.60
what to say or do, and
I kind of went over there
00:34:19.64\00:34:22.72
and I tried in my awkward
way: "Mom, are you really OK?"
00:34:22.76\00:34:28.72
I was trying to say something,
but I didn't know what to say.
00:34:28.95\00:34:32.42
In her hurt at that
moment she just said:
00:34:33.11\00:34:35.27
"Yes, I'm fine, you
just go ahead, you go do"
00:34:35.52\00:34:37.68
"your homework,
you just go ahead. "
00:34:37.71\00:34:39.80
Well, she didn't
mean to push me away,
00:34:39.90\00:34:42.73
she really didn't, she
wanted to avoid giving me
00:34:42.86\00:34:46.43
further pain, but my
friends, what happened
00:34:46.46\00:34:49.39
was I felt pushed away.
00:34:49.42\00:34:50.74
Do you see what happens to
the child? The child feels:
00:34:50.78\00:34:53.54
"I can't comfort my mom. "
00:34:53.57\00:34:55.50
Being family is all
about being able to say:
00:34:55.82\00:34:58.73
"Oh honey, I'm
hurting so bad right now. "
00:34:58.77\00:35:01.65
"I didn't want this
to happen to us, and so,"
00:35:02.76\00:35:05.92
"I'm just hurting. Just
hold mommy for a moment. "
00:35:05.95\00:35:09.08
That's a beautiful encounter,
what does that teach that child?
00:35:09.20\00:35:12.76
When you see overwhelmed
like that, when you're crying,
00:35:12.84\00:35:16.04
when you feel like you
need me to hold you, you can
00:35:16.08\00:35:19.25
come to me too, and
you're tears will be OK.
00:35:19.28\00:35:22.55
And tears are OK
because we're hurting
00:35:22.58\00:35:25.25
and it's an appropriate
time in life to mourn
00:35:25.29\00:35:28.43
what we have lost.
00:35:28.46\00:35:30.12
A strong parent,
and when I say strong
00:35:30.73\00:35:32.90
I'm speaking of a parent
that says: "Lord, give me"
00:35:32.94\00:35:35.86
"Your strength. " You know,
we're not strong on our own.
00:35:35.90\00:35:38.79
I don't know about
you, but I've discovered
00:35:38.82\00:35:40.13
how weak I am.
00:35:40.16\00:35:41.77
When we're hurting,
especially when we're hurting,
00:35:41.81\00:35:45.12
we're very vulnerable.
We're vulnerable to bitterness,
00:35:45.16\00:35:48.44
to resentments, our
anxiety builds up, we become
00:35:48.54\00:35:52.27
different people then
we typically would be.
00:35:52.30\00:35:56.00
So we need a spirit
inside of us to help us to deal
00:35:56.15\00:36:00.63
with all those
emotional feelings.
00:36:00.66\00:36:03.01
You've heard in the Bible
about the root of bitterness,
00:36:03.18\00:36:06.42
you remember years
ago when we didn't have
00:36:06.73\00:36:09.06
garbage disposals, I
don't know about you,
00:36:09.09\00:36:11.35
but my mamma with 6 children,
would put this plastic bag
00:36:11.39\00:36:14.97
on the sink and we had to drop
00:36:15.00\00:36:16.75
all the peelings and
things in there, you all know
00:36:16.79\00:36:18.81
what I'm talking about?
00:36:18.84\00:36:20.37
We would drop it in there,
and at the beginning of day
00:36:20.58\00:36:23.28
everything smelled
fine, but towards the evening
00:36:23.31\00:36:26.36
that little bag was getting
a little smelly, if you know
00:36:26.75\00:36:28.90
what I mean, and if
you pealed a banana,
00:36:28.93\00:36:31.55
and it was fresh, the
peal, and you threw it in there,
00:36:31.59\00:36:34.78
it wouldn't be very
long before that banana
00:36:34.81\00:36:36.64
would be smelly, that
peal, like the rest of the
00:36:36.68\00:36:39.31
garbage in there.
00:36:39.34\00:36:40.54
The same is true, when we
resent someone, when we hold
00:36:40.57\00:36:43.91
that bitterness inside of
us it's just like that kind
00:36:43.94\00:36:47.25
of garbage. And what happens
00:36:47.28\00:36:49.03
even if the Lord is sending
good blessings, something good
00:36:49.07\00:36:51.64
into our lives, it
turns rotten inside of us
00:36:51.67\00:36:54.85
because our bitterness
doesn't allow us to be thankful
00:36:55.13\00:36:58.07
for the blessings
that God's giving,
00:36:58.22\00:36:59.87
so those expressions of
sorrow, comforting one another,
00:37:00.07\00:37:03.88
that is helping to
get rid of the garbage
00:37:04.06\00:37:06.79
and receive the blessings.
00:37:06.97\00:37:09.11
I think we live in a culture
where there's so much divorce
00:37:10.20\00:37:12.57
in the culture, but
we've been having a lot of,
00:37:12.60\00:37:14.86
what some people would say is
"God talk" as we're talking now,
00:37:14.90\00:37:19.14
which is very
appropriate, of course,
00:37:19.17\00:37:21.24
but then you come
up with that statistic
00:37:21.95\00:37:25.11
that in Christian churches
even, there's the same amount
00:37:25.56\00:37:28.93
of divorce, and
the trauma that comes
00:37:28.96\00:37:33.04
from knowing that this is still
happening, even in a church.
00:37:33.45\00:37:36.81
Well, they're both Christians
and evidently God is not working
00:37:38.32\00:37:41.79
- what do you do to help people
that are struggling with that?
00:37:41.99\00:37:44.44
Do you have some way,
I noticed that you have
00:37:44.47\00:37:47.61
your Bible with you, as
any good chaplain would,
00:37:47.64\00:37:50.76
what do you do to help people
through that kind of anger
00:37:51.46\00:37:55.60
and pain that's now directed
towards the church and God?
00:37:55.64\00:37:59.75
Well, first of all,
remember Don, that we
00:38:00.51\00:38:03.50
of ourselves do not have
the wisdom or the discernment
00:38:03.85\00:38:07.34
to figure things
out, we really don't.
00:38:07.37\00:38:10.14
Most of us would agree
that when we try to take
00:38:10.25\00:38:13.43
care of things ourselves,
we end up getting ourselves
00:38:13.47\00:38:16.70
into a corner. Sometimes
we smash into a brick wall,
00:38:16.74\00:38:19.94
whatever it is, it
happens time and time again.
00:38:20.06\00:38:23.45
The sooner we realize
that we need help from above,
00:38:23.48\00:38:27.36
and you're right, the
statistics are pretty much even
00:38:27.57\00:38:30.90
for the Christian as it
is for the non-Christian
00:38:30.93\00:38:33.34
as far as divorce.
00:38:33.37\00:38:34.74
That tells me
something, that tells me
00:38:34.77\00:38:36.87
No. 1, that there's an
enemy working on everybody,
00:38:36.91\00:38:40.48
would you agree? Everybody
the same. Nobody's exempt.
00:38:40.52\00:38:44.06
Just because you're a Christian,
doesn't say that is the Good
00:38:44.16\00:38:47.96
Housekeeping seal of approval,
now you're not going to get
00:38:48.00\00:38:51.77
the troubles in your
marriage, on the contrary,
00:38:51.80\00:38:54.29
in fact, I really
believe that he will attack that
00:38:54.51\00:38:57.94
because is that not the
foundation or the strength
00:38:57.98\00:39:01.48
of our society? Aren't
our homes, our relationships,
00:39:01.51\00:39:04.98
the things that really
nurture the good in our society,
00:39:05.24\00:39:08.87
in these United States?
00:39:08.90\00:39:10.42
I really believe that
the attack has been so fierce
00:39:10.46\00:39:13.38
within the Christian
community for that reason.
00:39:13.42\00:39:16.27
Now, here's the thing:
wisdom does not come form us,
00:39:16.31\00:39:20.04
neither does the understanding.
Proverbs is a beautiful
00:39:20.07\00:39:23.77
book in the Bible.
00:39:23.80\00:39:25.30
It really talks about
real good counsel and advice.
00:39:25.33\00:39:28.81
Here's one, I'm going
to add here because it says
00:39:28.91\00:39:32.13
"My son," but I'm going
to say "and my daughter"
00:39:32.16\00:39:35.35
"if you receive my words, And
treasure my commands within you"
00:39:35.69\00:39:40.31
"So that you
incline your ear to wisdom,"
00:39:40.35\00:39:43.63
"And apply your
heart to understanding;"
00:39:44.41\00:39:47.12
"Yes, if you cry
out for discernment,"
00:39:47.15\00:39:49.83
So what do you know? We
can even ask for discernment.
00:39:50.03\00:39:53.40
"And lift up your
voice for understanding,"
00:39:53.57\00:39:56.47
"If you seek her like silver,"
00:39:56.50\00:39:58.97
"And search for her
as for hidden treasure;"
00:39:59.01\00:40:01.45
"Then you will understand
the fear of the LORD,"
00:40:01.48\00:40:05.14
"And find the knowledge of
God. For the LORD gives wisdom;"
00:40:05.24\00:40:09.70
"From His mouth come
knowledge and understanding;"
00:40:09.73\00:40:13.09
"He stores up sound
wisdom for the upright;"
00:40:14.13\00:40:17.11
"He is a shield to
those who walk uprightly;"
00:40:17.41\00:40:21.26
"He guards the paths the just,"
00:40:21.56\00:40:24.13
"And He preserves
the way of His saints. "
00:40:24.17\00:40:26.92
"Then you will understand
righteousness and justice,"
00:40:27.12\00:40:30.97
"Equity and every good path. "
00:40:31.00\00:40:34.80
So what it says to me is if
I turn my heart to the Lord,
00:40:34.90\00:40:38.18
if I ask God to give me
His wisdom, His discernment,
00:40:38.52\00:40:42.19
after all who established
the home to begin with?
00:40:42.23\00:40:45.87
In the
beginning, when God created,
00:40:46.08\00:40:47.83
He established the home,
the marriage, He said from the
00:40:47.87\00:40:51.21
beginning - a man would
leave his father and mother,
00:40:51.24\00:40:54.55
cleave to his wife
and the 2 would become 1.
00:40:54.71\00:40:57.95
That unit was not be
broken by man; what God
00:40:57.98\00:41:01.12
has put together,
let no man put asunder.
00:41:01.16\00:41:04.27
We have messed that up
when we tried to keep things
00:41:04.42\00:41:07.66
together ourselves, and
we usually end up getting
00:41:07.69\00:41:10.90
ourselves in trouble.
00:41:10.93\00:41:12.25
So, the answer
to the question is,
00:41:12.29\00:41:13.84
if it's happening in a
Christian church, and people
00:41:15.23\00:41:17.39
are getting divorced then maybe
they weren't seeking wisdom
00:41:17.43\00:41:20.84
from God, maybe they
weren't looking that way,
00:41:20.87\00:41:23.39
maybe that's why that
happens as much in the church
00:41:23.47\00:41:26.08
as in society.
00:41:26.11\00:41:27.50
Well, I would say
this, not necessarily so
00:41:27.57\00:41:31.05
because it takes two people
to make relationship work,
00:41:31.09\00:41:34.95
doesn't it?
00:41:35.22\00:41:36.19
So there can be a
person who is very committed
00:41:36.28\00:41:39.64
and has asked God for wisdom,
and if the other partner decides
00:41:39.68\00:41:42.69
that he wants out,
or she wants out of this
00:41:42.72\00:41:44.69
relationship, guess what?
00:41:44.72\00:41:47.07
There isn't a whole lot
that you and I are going
00:41:47.10\00:41:48.98
to be able to do about that.
00:41:49.01\00:41:50.81
So, sometimes I say to people,
rather then trying to say
00:41:51.09\00:41:54.82
who is good and who is bad,
then we're back to that again,
00:41:54.85\00:41:58.55
that we need to be
careful not to judge that,
00:41:58.90\00:42:02.95
rather to commit
ourselves jointly, as a family,
00:42:02.98\00:42:06.20
as a couple, to say
from from the beginning:
00:42:06.24\00:42:09.43
"Divorce is not an option
for us, we're going to ask"
00:42:09.61\00:42:12.44
"wisdom, discernment of
the Lord, we're going to"
00:42:12.48\00:42:15.24
"seek the counsel of our
fellow neighbor and friends,"
00:42:15.28\00:42:19.78
"and people who have
good, strong marriages. "
00:42:19.81\00:42:22.08
"We're going to seek to
develop in our relationship"
00:42:22.12\00:42:25.51
"something that is
foundational to our home. "
00:42:25.54\00:42:28.94
"And we're going to
care for it, by caring for"
00:42:28.97\00:42:31.59
"one another. "
00:42:31.62\00:42:33.00
One thing I want to ask
Jan too, how did you deal,
00:42:33.40\00:42:38.36
coming back to something
else here, how did you deal
00:42:38.41\00:42:40.61
with family gatherings?
00:42:40.64\00:42:42.54
Holidays were very difficult.
00:42:42.82\00:42:46.07
It's a family time, everybody's
together and I had to redefine
00:42:47.04\00:42:51.20
that as well.
00:42:51.23\00:42:53.02
I had to redefine what a
holiday meant and that Nr. 1,
00:42:53.06\00:42:56.29
holidays can mean more
then just your immediate family,
00:42:56.39\00:42:59.86
that you can do
things that are different,
00:43:00.30\00:43:02.36
that you can invite other people
who are, maybe, hurting as well,
00:43:02.40\00:43:05.89
and bring them into your
home, it's ok to go to someone
00:43:05.92\00:43:09.37
else's home on a
holiday. I've been very blessed
00:43:09.40\00:43:12.58
to be invited to other
people's homes on holidays.
00:43:12.61\00:43:16.58
So, it's just a matter
of you can't go backwards,
00:43:16.62\00:43:20.52
you have to be able to go
forwards whether it's a holiday
00:43:20.56\00:43:23.82
or anything else. You
have to take a look at:
00:43:24.03\00:43:25.76
"This is what it used to
be, but I need to forge forward"
00:43:25.80\00:43:29.52
"with a new future and a
new way to make my life. "
00:43:29.55\00:43:33.35
I remember when I moved, I
had to move out of my house.
00:43:33.39\00:43:37.16
The last night I was
there in that home, I sat
00:43:37.26\00:43:40.29
on the porch, on
the patio, and cried.
00:43:40.32\00:43:42.65
My past was behind me,
but I had a whole new future
00:43:44.71\00:43:47.96
ahead that I was
able to put together
00:43:48.17\00:43:50.48
with my children and
to make new memories.
00:43:50.52\00:43:53.11
It might not look like I thought
it was going to, but it was
00:43:53.82\00:43:56.24
still going to be alright.
We could still forge ahead
00:43:56.27\00:43:58.65
and make new memories
that would be just as valuable
00:43:58.68\00:44:01.03
and just as precious.
00:44:01.16\00:44:02.70
We need to see things eventually
00:44:02.86\00:44:06.36
as being in God's
control and not ours.
00:44:06.52\00:44:09.68
We can't control people,
Jan said it well, you can't
00:44:10.05\00:44:12.83
change someone's heart,
you can't change their mind,
00:44:12.87\00:44:15.62
that's why for me,
the work that we do
00:44:15.94\00:44:18.65
as citizens together,
as Christians particularly,
00:44:18.69\00:44:23.31
for each other and for
others outside of the church.
00:44:23.41\00:44:26.28
If we're going to show them
the love of God, we need to be
00:44:26.32\00:44:29.00
able to say:
"Well, you know what?"
00:44:29.03\00:44:30.52
"Because this relationship
is so foundational to your"
00:44:30.56\00:44:33.13
"happiness and to your
joy, and because it's going"
00:44:33.17\00:44:36.33
"to produce, by blessing,
children who will also then"
00:44:36.37\00:44:39.72
"grow up to create those
good, strong relationships,"
00:44:39.76\00:44:43.08
"we want to make sure
that before that marriage"
00:44:43.47\00:44:45.67
"takes place, that it's strong,
that it's going to be strong. "
00:44:45.71\00:44:48.44
I'd rather see them
go through a process
00:44:48.86\00:44:51.00
where 3 months down
the line they're saying:
00:44:51.03\00:44:53.14
"We decided not to get
married. We don't think"
00:44:53.48\00:44:55.44
"we're quite ready right
now. " Than, to have something
00:44:55.48\00:44:58.75
later on that's
going to creep up and say:
00:44:58.78\00:45:01.34
"Oh, I didn't know
that about that person. "
00:45:01.38\00:45:03.91
There's a lot of work
that can be done beforehand.
00:45:04.02\00:45:07.02
One last question to Jan
before we go to our break,
00:45:07.15\00:45:09.65
and that is: Jan, have you moved
00:45:10.02\00:45:13.65
from the time in your
life where you're dealing
00:45:13.69\00:45:15.66
with this pain, you
still have some of that,
00:45:15.69\00:45:17.63
but have you moved
to a ministry mode?
00:45:18.17\00:45:20.42
Have you been able
to help people who have
00:45:20.45\00:45:22.42
gone through or
are going through what
00:45:22.46\00:45:24.40
you had gone through?
00:45:24.43\00:45:26.07
I believe that I have
reached a point that I can say
00:45:26.20\00:45:29.90
that I know I'm a whole person,
I know that I have value,
00:45:29.94\00:45:33.67
and that God has
given me a purpose in life.
00:45:33.70\00:45:36.98
That purpose, all
of us, whoever we are,
00:45:38.39\00:45:41.89
So I feel very blessed
that I have been healed
00:45:44.35\00:45:49.89
in terms of the pain
and able to share what
00:45:50.35\00:45:54.94
I've learned, with other people.
00:45:54.97\00:45:57.06
Thank you so much for sharing.
It's been a joy to be able
00:45:57.20\00:45:59.75
to interact with you and
we're going to be interacting
00:45:59.78\00:46:02.30
now with our
audience a little bit.
00:46:02.33\00:46:03.97
Coming up next, we're
going to take some questions
00:46:04.00\00:46:06.80
from our live audience,
so please stay with us.
00:46:06.84\00:46:09.63
Have you been
devastated by a divorce?
00:46:18.01\00:46:20.05
Are you still sorting
through all the pain and hurt?
00:46:20.09\00:46:22.57
Are you struggling with a
sense of rejection and betrayal?
00:46:22.72\00:46:25.77
If so, we have just the book
for you, find hope and healing
00:46:25.81\00:46:28.83
as you read "The
Ultimate Survivor".
00:46:28.86\00:46:31.38
For your free gift
just write to us at.
00:46:31.42\00:46:34.49
Ask for Up Close Offer Nr. 11.
00:46:44.80\00:46:47.56
Welcome back to Up Close.
00:47:06.42\00:47:08.23
We've been talking today
about recovering from the pain
00:47:08.27\00:47:11.17
of divorce.
00:47:11.20\00:47:12.27
We'll take some questions
from our audience at this time.
00:47:12.31\00:47:14.65
What's our first question?
00:47:15.34\00:47:16.71
My name is Eugene
Pruitt. In my work I'm often
00:47:16.74\00:47:19.47
meeting new people,
00:47:19.50\00:47:20.87
and I'm working if divorce
is too touchy, or too personal
00:47:20.91\00:47:23.88
an issue to bring up in an
initial meeting or conversation?
00:47:23.91\00:47:26.85
Should try to help
then, or wait till later?
00:47:26.89\00:47:29.02
I would say
establish a relationship first.
00:47:29.22\00:47:32.23
Divorce is a very
private and personal thing.
00:47:32.88\00:47:35.30
It's a private matter
and usually people are very
00:47:35.33\00:47:37.68
sensitive about it, you
heard Jan express that tonight.
00:47:37.72\00:47:40.89
You want to make sure
that you've established
00:47:41.07\00:47:43.08
a relationship
first, so that person feels
00:47:43.12\00:47:45.10
comfortable with you.
00:47:45.13\00:47:46.91
I think that's an excellent
questions in another sense
00:47:47.55\00:47:50.14
because people can sometimes
establish that so quickly.
00:47:50.17\00:47:52.73
Jesus with the woman at
the well had that ability,
00:47:52.94\00:47:55.88
sometimes that can happen,
it better happen or you're
00:47:57.00\00:48:00.31
in the wrong area.
00:48:00.34\00:48:01.68
Hi, what's your
name? What's your question?
00:48:01.72\00:48:04.32
Hi, my name is
Kim, and I was wondering
00:48:04.39\00:48:06.66
if you could tell
me what specific things
00:48:06.69\00:48:08.93
parents can do to help
their children cope with
00:48:09.40\00:48:11.30
the pain and loss of divorce,
short term and long term.
00:48:11.34\00:48:15.62
Specific things.
00:48:16.03\00:48:17.73
Well, short term, the
first thing is to allow
00:48:17.83\00:48:21.43
the children to mourn
with you, that's so important,
00:48:21.47\00:48:24.87
we talked about that tonight
when we talked about expressing
00:48:24.91\00:48:27.98
tears and all of that.
00:48:28.01\00:48:29.80
Long term it's really important
to continue to provide the
00:48:29.84\00:48:33.49
assurance to your children,
in other words in the things
00:48:33.52\00:48:37.14
you say and the things
you do things, that says:
00:48:37.17\00:48:39.60
"We're still a
family, we're still a home. "
00:48:39.63\00:48:42.90
"We will always be family,
we will always have a home,"
00:48:43.02\00:48:46.14
"you are secure here
even though right now"
00:48:46.17\00:48:48.64
"we're hurting. " That's
long term very important.
00:48:48.68\00:48:51.75
Next question, your
name, your question please.
00:48:52.67\00:48:54.58
My name is
Catherine, I was just wondering,
00:48:54.61\00:48:56.45
what advice can you give
to children who's parents
00:48:56.49\00:48:59.12
are going through
divorce? How can they heal?
00:48:59.15\00:49:01.34
There again, my friends... time.
00:49:03.90\00:49:06.73
I wish I could make it
faster for anybody, but we can't
00:49:06.85\00:49:10.57
go over grief or under
grief, we go through grief.
00:49:10.60\00:49:14.88
We can't go it
alone, Jan said it tonight,
00:49:15.05\00:49:17.95
we have to do it with Jesus.
00:49:18.05\00:49:20.25
I would say to anyone, make
sure daily you're committing
00:49:20.28\00:49:24.34
your pain to Jesus,
and then say: "Lord,"
00:49:24.37\00:49:27.52
"please help the pain
that I'm feeling today, to be"
00:49:27.56\00:49:30.51
"of some good not
only to me personally"
00:49:30.54\00:49:32.69
- in other words, for me
to learn something from it -
00:49:32.73\00:49:34.69
"but that I might
encourage another one"
00:49:34.83\00:49:36.86
"who is going
through a similar pain. "
00:49:36.89\00:49:38.85
So be open to talk to
your family, to your friends,
00:49:38.89\00:49:42.36
but above all, to Jesus.
00:49:42.39\00:49:44.63
So with the
children, do you think that
00:49:44.67\00:49:46.55
spending more time with
them is important after divorce?
00:49:46.59\00:49:50.94
Absolutely. In fact,
families ought to spend
00:49:52.33\00:49:55.49
intentional time
together following any crisis:
00:49:55.52\00:49:58.61
a death, divorce, people
moving away from the community
00:49:58.65\00:50:01.96
that you've been very
close to and now you're distant.
00:50:02.00\00:50:05.28
It's really important to
say, after school, for instance,
00:50:05.47\00:50:09.30
let's say that mom is home,
and let's say that you can meet
00:50:09.33\00:50:12.70
after school, like after 4.30
we're going to have a little
00:50:12.74\00:50:15.61
family counsel, we're going
to talk about how our day went
00:50:15.65\00:50:18.49
today and how we dealt with
some of the things that came up
00:50:18.53\00:50:21.34
because of the pain
that we're going through.
00:50:21.37\00:50:22.89
So definitely, you can
do that in the evening.
00:50:23.01\00:50:25.61
Spending time together is
very important, whether it's
00:50:25.89\00:50:28.58
scheduled or whether you
just make it a point as a parent
00:50:28.62\00:50:31.20
with younger children to
say: "I'm going to take some"
00:50:31.24\00:50:33.83
"additional time at the
park. I'm going to go somewhere"
00:50:33.87\00:50:36.50
"with my kids where they
can feel free to talk to me,"
00:50:36.53\00:50:39.13
"where they can express
what's going on with them. "
00:50:39.27\00:50:41.97
Good question.
00:50:42.08\00:50:43.29
We have another question.
00:50:43.60\00:50:45.51
What's your name,
what's your question?
00:50:45.55\00:50:47.14
My name is Susan,
my question is, what's
00:50:47.17\00:50:50.49
an appropriate word
to say to somebody who is
00:50:50.53\00:50:53.54
contemplating a divorce?
00:50:53.57\00:50:55.68
I think it's important to
be very honest with people.
00:50:56.55\00:51:00.30
I would say: "It
really hurts me to hear"
00:51:00.85\00:51:04.66
"you say that you're thinking
about divorce, because I know"
00:51:04.70\00:51:07.63
"how much it must hurt
you. Do you need someone"
00:51:07.66\00:51:11.46
"to share with?",
because, my friends,
00:51:11.49\00:51:13.88
all of us go
through these experiences,
00:51:13.91\00:51:16.42
and let them
know that it hurts you
00:51:16.46\00:51:18.68
just to know
that they're hurting.
00:51:18.71\00:51:20.90
That will open a door
for them to talk to you.
00:51:21.80\00:51:24.47
When people feel like
"Oh, she doesn't understand"
00:51:24.54\00:51:26.99
"my pain, I shouldn't burden
her because it's my hurt. "
00:51:27.03\00:51:30.33
You're not burying
it, but the Bible tells me
00:51:30.36\00:51:32.11
"don't turn from your own flesh"
don't turn from your own flesh,
00:51:32.15\00:51:35.99
so enter into that experience,
be willing to walk through
00:51:36.12\00:51:39.46
the hurt with them.
Say "I'm here for you. "
00:51:39.49\00:51:41.76
That's what you're
saying when you say
00:51:41.79\00:51:43.53
"I hurt for you. "
00:51:43.56\00:51:45.22
Thank you for that question.
00:51:45.79\00:51:47.35
We have another
question in just a minute,
00:51:48.56\00:51:50.98
but helping people move
through that time period
00:51:51.03\00:51:54.81
by just being there with
them, and letting them know
00:51:54.85\00:51:58.60
that being divorced is not
going to solve all the problems
00:52:00.30\00:52:04.34
may be important
too, wouldn't you say?
00:52:04.37\00:52:06.42
Well, yes. But
remember too, Don,
00:52:06.45\00:52:08.21
that it's really
important not to make a judgment
00:52:08.25\00:52:11.05
as to what's going on
because sometimes you have
00:52:11.25\00:52:13.39
very difficult circumstances.
For instance, I think
00:52:13.42\00:52:15.53
of issues of abuse,
for example, incest,
00:52:15.56\00:52:19.88
there's a lot of serious
issues going on out there
00:52:19.98\00:52:23.50
and we need to be very
careful not to move into:
00:52:23.95\00:52:27.26
"Oh, don't do that,
that's a horrible thing to do. "
00:52:27.35\00:52:29.85
I happen to think that
divorce is tragic, period!
00:52:29.89\00:52:32.36
It's hurtful, it's
damaging, all of that,
00:52:32.39\00:52:34.85
but I want to get
deeper, I want to know,
00:52:34.96\00:52:36.98
what is it that this person's
dealing with, and the only
00:52:37.23\00:52:39.84
way I can do that is
make myself available,
00:52:39.87\00:52:42.18
walk with them, listen.
00:52:42.21\00:52:44.05
You ought to listen a
whole lot more than you talk,
00:52:44.09\00:52:46.66
a whole lot more.
00:52:46.98\00:52:48.46
Thank you so much for
that. Next question please,
00:52:48.85\00:52:51.30
state your name
and your question.
00:52:51.33\00:52:53.40
My name is Dennis Tufonic.
00:52:53.54\00:52:55.41
I was involved with a
divorce in our family,
00:52:56.39\00:52:59.00
and I was 13, as
were you, but my question
00:52:59.04\00:53:02.46
has to do with adult
children who's parents
00:53:02.50\00:53:05.89
go through a divorce, how might
they relate to those parents?
00:53:07.06\00:53:10.16
It's interesting,
pain is different.
00:53:11.49\00:53:14.01
By that I mean that you're
able to express it differently
00:53:14.05\00:53:17.00
as an adult, than
you maybe as a child,
00:53:17.03\00:53:19.08
when you act out
in different ways,
00:53:19.12\00:53:21.49
like behavioral
issues or problems.
00:53:21.52\00:53:23.82
But adult children
also go through mourning,
00:53:23.86\00:53:26.19
and grieving, when
their parents divorce.
00:53:26.22\00:53:28.31
Some people act like: "Oh
it's not going to matter,"
00:53:28.35\00:53:30.31
"I'll wait till their
older and then I'll do it. "
00:53:30.35\00:53:32.28
We still hurt.
00:53:32.31\00:53:33.76
So there really isn't
a difference as far as
00:53:33.80\00:53:36.91
that they feel pain, rather is,
how we're able to process it.
00:53:36.95\00:53:40.60
I would say that if you,
as parents, continue to urge
00:53:40.63\00:53:43.64
them to stay close to you
and to be open and talk to you
00:53:43.67\00:53:46.61
about those things, that that is
the best thing that you can do
00:53:46.65\00:53:49.70
for an adult child. They
will be able to respond to you.
00:53:49.73\00:53:53.04
Do you think
that there is a time
00:53:53.98\00:54:00.36
when you need to tell
the children, for instance,
00:54:00.47\00:54:03.51
going back to
that other question,
00:54:03.93\00:54:05.63
that it's not their fault?
00:54:05.81\00:54:07.88
Oh, absolutely! Absolutely!
00:54:07.91\00:54:09.95
Children, right
away, internalize things
00:54:10.12\00:54:12.24
and they think: "I must have
done something to make mommy"
00:54:12.28\00:54:14.91
"or daddy mad at each
other. " That's how they think,
00:54:14.94\00:54:17.49
they absorb the guilt,
and that's a very good point
00:54:17.53\00:54:20.05
that you bring up.
00:54:20.08\00:54:21.35
So sharing with the children
right away "you didn't do"
00:54:21.39\00:54:24.05
"anything wrong to cause this.
This is something that mommy"
00:54:24.09\00:54:27.51
"and daddy are dealing with,
and it hurts us to have to be"
00:54:27.55\00:54:30.94
"going through this,
because we love you so much"
00:54:30.97\00:54:32.90
"and we don't want to hurt
you, but it was not about you. "
00:54:32.94\00:54:36.43
Yes, that's very important.
00:54:36.53\00:54:38.28
Marti, as we're closing
this program, what are some
00:54:38.36\00:54:41.09
final thoughts
that you might have
00:54:41.12\00:54:42.94
that you would like to
share concerning moving through
00:54:42.98\00:54:46.57
the pain of divorce.
00:54:46.60\00:54:48.46
Well, first of all,
let me say how wonderful
00:54:48.59\00:54:50.36
it's been to
talk about this topic.
00:54:50.39\00:54:52.33
As you know, it's very
personal to me and I will tell
00:54:52.37\00:54:56.03
that my commitment in
ministry has been that I believe
00:54:56.06\00:54:59.69
that one came, who
could set the world free
00:54:59.72\00:55:02.62
from all of this. And
that one was Jesus Christ.
00:55:02.66\00:55:06.39
I believe with all my heart
that my work as a Bible worker,
00:55:06.65\00:55:09.60
as I seek to connect
people to the world of God,
00:55:09.63\00:55:12.04
that there's the answer
to everything that we need,
00:55:12.22\00:55:15.43
the blueprint, if you
would, to our homes and family.
00:55:15.47\00:55:18.65
So I believe that if we
will commit ourselves daily,
00:55:18.84\00:55:22.03
and say: "Lord, today,
bless my home, bless my heart. "
00:55:22.14\00:55:25.97
"Make me the kind of
wife, the kind of mother,"
00:55:26.00\00:55:28.73
"that I need to be. "
00:55:28.76\00:55:29.98
that God will answer that prayer
of faith, and that our homes
00:55:30.02\00:55:32.98
will be better, even
just through my influence
00:55:33.01\00:55:35.48
of it - do you understand?
00:55:35.51\00:55:37.32
So daily committing,
fighting that good fight,
00:55:37.35\00:55:40.60
rolling up your
sleeves and saying:
00:55:40.63\00:55:42.51
"No devil, you
can't have my family"
00:55:42.54\00:55:44.39
"because my family
is God's family and I'm"
00:55:44.48\00:55:47.34
"going to make every
effort to keep them strong"
00:55:47.38\00:55:49.64
"and to keep them
faithful to the Lord. "
00:55:49.67\00:55:51.65
It takes a real
effort on our part,
00:55:51.68\00:55:54.84
daily committing our
hearts and lives to Jesus,
00:55:54.88\00:55:57.93
and I believe
that He wants all of us
00:55:57.96\00:55:59.63
to have whole and
happy homes. I believe that.
00:55:59.67\00:56:02.93
So I would invite each one of us
to recommit our hearts and lives
00:56:02.96\00:56:06.93
to Jesus, and say:
"Lord, you make the difference"
00:56:06.96\00:56:09.50
"in our home, I
want to start today. ",
00:56:09.53\00:56:11.91
and you will see the doors open,
the fellowship, the counselors,
00:56:11.95\00:56:16.00
everything that you
need will come together
00:56:16.03\00:56:18.30
because the Lord will
set them in your path.
00:56:18.33\00:56:20.57
Thank you so much for that.
00:56:21.14\00:56:22.26
We'd like to thank our
guests for being with us.
00:56:22.30\00:56:24.68
First of all I'd like to thank
Jan Morris for being with us.
00:56:24.72\00:56:27.43
Thank you for sharing
your testimony with us,
00:56:27.63\00:56:29.69
and I'd also like to thank
Marti Jones for being with us
00:56:29.89\00:56:33.05
and I'd like to thank you
for being with you as well.
00:56:33.09\00:56:36.22
As I've listened tonight,
and as you've listened as well
00:56:36.90\00:56:40.87
throughout this program,
we've sensed that people
00:56:40.90\00:56:43.43
have pain, but we've also
sensed that God has a plan.
00:56:43.47\00:56:45.97
Wherever you are, you may say:
00:56:46.23\00:56:48.88
"I didn't hear anything in
that program that helped me. "
00:56:48.92\00:56:50.89
or you may say: "I
heard a lot of things"
00:56:50.92\00:56:52.51
"that helped me. ",
but wherever you are,
00:56:52.55\00:56:54.07
I want you to just
have a picture in your mind
00:56:54.11\00:56:56.40
of a mountain, and there you are
00:56:56.43\00:56:58.98
and you don't know where to
go. Maybe the people next to you
00:56:59.23\00:57:01.90
have caused you pain,
but I want to encourage you
00:57:01.93\00:57:04.34
to look up to the
top of that mountain.
00:57:04.37\00:57:06.16
There's a text in
Revelation that pictures Jesus
00:57:06.21\00:57:08.84
on top of a mountain,
and you're looking at Him
00:57:08.88\00:57:11.44
and you start to walk up
because when you look at Jesus,
00:57:11.48\00:57:14.65
there's no one else
that you want to look at
00:57:14.73\00:57:16.86
except for Him. You
start walking towards Him,
00:57:16.90\00:57:19.00
and as you're
walking towards Him,
00:57:19.16\00:57:20.81
the distance between you and
others that He wants to be with
00:57:21.92\00:57:24.87
is getting less
and less and less.
00:57:24.90\00:57:27.13
And when you get right
next to Him, God has a plan
00:57:27.17\00:57:29.58
for your life, He
has people for your life,
00:57:29.61\00:57:31.59
and He'll bring you together
at the top of the mountain
00:57:31.63\00:57:34.21
with Him. So wherever you are,
00:57:34.24\00:57:36.53
Jesus is close to you
now as you're looking to Him,
00:57:37.32\00:57:39.90
He's looking at you,
and when you come together,
00:57:39.94\00:57:42.49
He has a plan and a
purpose for your life.
00:57:42.69\00:57:44.78
Thank you so
much for joining us,
00:57:44.81\00:57:46.23
thank you Marti
for being with us.
00:57:46.26\00:57:47.61
Thank you for joining
us on the Up Close program.
00:57:47.65\00:57:50.03