Is your life headed
in the wrong direction?
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Well, stay
tuned to meet a couple
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whose mission is to
get you back on track
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physically and spiritually.
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My name is Jason Bradley,
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guests today are
Pastor James Rafferty,
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3ABN Director of
Discipleship and Rise Rafferty,
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and she is with
3ABN Health Ministries.
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Welcome to Urban Report.
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Thank you.
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Good to be here Jason.
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It's great to have you here.
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You know, you've
given me such a hard time
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on Salvation in Symbols
and Signs Pastor Rafferty,
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always pop quiz...
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Thank you. Thank you.
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My pleasure.
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But it's been incredible,
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we recorded I
think 112 episodes.
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Wow, really?
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Yes.
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Yeah. So we spent a
lot of time together.
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We have.
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'Cause he insists on
sitting next to me on the set.
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Well, yes, that's because I knew
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you're gonna be
throwing some darts
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so I figured the
closer that I was the better,
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the better, maybe I could
look at your notes or something.
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He does a lot of praying
for me too, for all of us.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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So, but it's great
to have you both here
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and you're a
part of the 3ABN team
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in another capacity now.
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That's amazing. Yes.
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We're so blessed. Yes.
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We just joined May 20th.
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I mean I know the date,
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I don't know the
day, yeah, it was Tuesday.
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Okay.
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I think it was Tuesday.
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I have to check on
that in my calendar
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and we're really being what?
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Integrated I guess
initiated, this three weeks,
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because we have
a lot of programs
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that we're doing
morning, noon and evening.
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Yes.
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And camp meeting weekends,
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morning, noon,
evening and weekends.
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So, yeah, it's a
real blessing to be here.
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Yes, so, it's a
blessing to have you and Rise.
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This is, I haven't
had much interaction
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with you not as
much as Pastor Rafferty.
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In fact, I used to tease
Pastor Rafferty all the time
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on Salvation in
Symbol, well, offset and...
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When we were on the set
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for Salvation in
Symbols and Signs
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and so it's nice to be
able to sit down with you
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and now talk to you
about your role here with 3ABN.
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So tell us a little
bit about what you do here?
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I was the imaginary wife.
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That's right. That's right.
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Yes.
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I used to always tell them
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that, are you
sure you're married?
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Does she really exist?
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And then I finally met
you, I think in ASI or GYC
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or something.
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Yes, yes. So tell
us about what you do?
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So my capacity here is
under health ministries.
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Yes.
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Developing programs
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and that would promote education
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that pertains
to physical health.
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But I think that physical health
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has a lot to do with
your spiritual health as well.
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Yes.
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So anyways, that's
what we're gonna be doing
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is focused on meetings
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that programs that
will generate education
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and help people
physically flourish.
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I love it.
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And you have quite a few letters
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behind your name.
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What's going on with all of that
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and will you break it down?
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Yeah, they're not a big deal.
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It just means that I became
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a registered
dietician nutritionist,
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RDN and then I got my masters.
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Yes.
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Nice. Okay.
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And, Pastor Rafferty,
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let's go back
into your childhood,
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your upbringing and all of that,
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because, you know,
we've seen you on Salvation
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in Symbols and
Signs and your passion
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for spreading the gospel.
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How did all of
that come into play?
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Well, a lot of it is
based on my upbringing.
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I was raised in a Catholic home,
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and I can relate a
lot to Martin Luther,
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Hus, Jerome, a
lot of the reformers
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who were part of
the Catholic Church
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and when they were growing
their Christian experience
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they went through,
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as I think we all
do a difficult time
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trying to earn God's favor.
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You know, we do different things
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to try to make God
love us and accept us
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and be merciful to us.
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And I found myself
as raised in Catholic
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as a young man
falling into that.
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You know, going to confession,
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you know, saying
prayers of repentance,
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doing pain, you know,
different things even.
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You know, my favorite thing
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when I was a kid to
eat was potato chips.
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Everyone was buying candy,
I was eating potato chips.
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And for Lent,
which is a 40 days of,
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you know, before Easter,
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that you kind of
give up something special.
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I gave up
potato chips, you know?
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So, I found
myself falling into that.
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And, like Luther,
like Hus, like Jerome,
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like Wycliffe, like a
lot of these reformers,
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these early reformers
who were in Catholicism.
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The revelation of
Christ's righteousness
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and salvation through
justification by faith
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was real, that it
wasn't just a doctrine.
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It was something that was real
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because it
transformed their lives.
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It transformed their hearts.
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That's why they
gave everything for that,
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you know, their
lives, and their livelihoods.
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And when I became a believer,
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and this is before
I became an Adventist.
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When I accepted
Christ as my personal Savior
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and I experienced
righteousness by faith,
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justification by faith.
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I felt that burden
of guilt lifted off me
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as I'd never
experienced it before.
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And it just caused me
to fall in love with Jesus.
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I just loved
Him. I loved His Word.
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And it was the bedrock,
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the foundation
for my experience,
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Christian experience.
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Amen.
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And so how often did you find
yourself studying God's Word,
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especially during
that transitional period
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from Catholicism to Adventism?
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Well, beginning with my first
initial conversion experience,
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I probably didn't
study the Word of God
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hardly at all, initially.
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My mom, my
mother sent me a Bible.
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I said mom, because mom,
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because I was raised in England.
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And that's what,
and I read it in 1983.
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And I read John Chapter 1.
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And I couldn't
understand it by the time
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we got to the
end of that chapter.
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So I just put it on
the shelf for a year.
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And I said, you
know, that's not for the...
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That's for the priest.
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But a year later, as I
had become a Christian,
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my sister was involved in this,
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what I considered
at the time occult.
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I was going to a
Calvary Chapel Church
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and she was going to this church
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that went to church
on Saturdays, right?
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And then she
started telling me about,
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you know, you
shouldn't really meet,
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it's not that great for you.
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And then she
started telling me about,
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you know, I shouldn't
listen to rock and roll music
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and I said, wow.
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My sister must be
involved in some kind of occult.
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So that's when I started
getting really interested
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in studying the Word of God.
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In fact, I was challenged
to study with the Bible worker
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from her church,
which happened to be.
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I don't know if
you've heard of it,
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the Seventh-day
Adventist Church.
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Oh, absolutely.
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Right?
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So they were wanting to study
the Bible with me and I said,
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I'm going to take
them up on this challenge.
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I'm going to study with
them, I'm going to figure out
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where they're off,
where they're off biblically.
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And then I'll get my
sister out of this church,
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out of this occult,
you know, I thought.
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So that's when I really
started studying the Bible
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and seeking to
understand God's Word
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in ways that I'd never
done before in my life.
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And I was on it all the time.
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They were giving me,
we had weekly studies
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and they started
giving me two studies
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a week instead of one.
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And then I started going
to Bible studies with them,
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I was just eating
up the Word of God.
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It's interesting because
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you were studying to be
able to prove your sister wrong.
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But God used that to
convict you of the truth
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found in His Word.
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Absolutely. It was amazing.
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That's incredible.
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And so, with that
passion now you are...
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Tell us about your role
here and what that entails?
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Well, Discipleship Ministry
is what God has called us to,
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Christ has
called us to, He says,
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you know, go ye to all the world
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and make disciples of all men,
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teaching them all things,
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what I've commanded
you and baptizing them
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in the name of the Father,
the Son and the Holy Spirit.
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Discipleship
Ministry is a little different
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from pastoral, even
evangelistic ministry.
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It focuses on the one on one,
and I just have a real burden.
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I've been a Christian now,
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born again
Christian for 37 years
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and I've learned so much.
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Been in so many
different settings,
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traveled all over the world,
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but in a lot of
different cultures,
00:08:01.71\00:08:03.18
come out of Catholicism,
00:08:03.21\00:08:04.55
studied with
different religions,
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Jehovah Witnesses
and Church of Christ,
00:08:06.45\00:08:08.58
you name it.
00:08:08.62\00:08:09.95
And so, I really feel a burden,
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a desire to pass on
to others the things
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that God show me,
taught me the things
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I've experienced
this wisdom I've learned.
00:08:18.29\00:08:20.70
So discipleship ministry is
just connecting with people,
00:08:20.73\00:08:23.70
maybe one on
one in small groups,
00:08:23.73\00:08:25.73
and interacting with
them in the Word of God
00:08:25.77\00:08:27.40
answering their questions,
00:08:27.44\00:08:28.77
following up with them in email
discussions and Bible studies.
00:08:28.80\00:08:32.27
Just here while I've been here,
00:08:32.31\00:08:34.01
there was a
couple that came out here
00:08:34.04\00:08:35.91
from California and they were,
00:08:35.94\00:08:37.61
you know,
touring and interacting
00:08:37.65\00:08:39.41
and here for a special event.
00:08:39.45\00:08:41.15
And they, we connected,
00:08:41.18\00:08:42.65
we spent a
couple hours together,
00:08:42.68\00:08:44.09
they connected
with Rise on health,
00:08:44.12\00:08:45.45
one of them did and,
00:08:45.49\00:08:46.82
and we exchanged
contact information.
00:08:46.86\00:08:48.99
They've just, you
know, sent me a email,
00:08:49.02\00:08:51.46
I really wanna have
those Bible studies one on one.
00:08:51.49\00:08:53.33
How to study the Bible,
00:08:53.36\00:08:54.70
and so I'm going to
be sending that to him.
00:08:54.73\00:08:56.30
That's the kind of thing
00:08:56.33\00:08:57.67
discipleship
ministry is all about.
00:08:57.70\00:08:59.03
Yeah, that is huge.
00:08:59.07\00:09:00.87
And, Rise, what was
00:09:00.90\00:09:03.61
or what had the
greatest influence
00:09:03.64\00:09:06.47
on you positive influence
00:09:06.51\00:09:08.34
in regards to your
relationship with God?
00:09:08.38\00:09:11.41
Well, other than my mama,
because she was a praying mom,
00:09:11.45\00:09:14.88
and I remember just growing up,
00:09:14.92\00:09:16.25
always seeing her kneeling
down before she went to work.
00:09:16.28\00:09:18.79
And I knew she
was praying for me.
00:09:18.82\00:09:20.36
So, that memory
always stuck with me.
00:09:20.39\00:09:23.49
But like James, the
Word of God, the gospel,
00:09:23.53\00:09:27.16
when I understood
and learned the beauty
00:09:27.20\00:09:30.40
and the
simplicity of the gospel,
00:09:30.43\00:09:32.37
as a young adult, it
definitely transformed me.
00:09:32.40\00:09:36.27
Yeah.
00:09:36.30\00:09:37.64
And I fell in love
00:09:37.67\00:09:39.01
with the Word of God for myself.
00:09:39.04\00:09:40.38
I grew up in Adventist,
but while I was exposed, right?
00:09:40.41\00:09:45.48
And it was my tradition, it
was my culture and so forth.
00:09:45.51\00:09:48.68
And I definitely
had a period of time
00:09:48.72\00:09:50.39
where it wasn't necessarily
a personal walk for me.
00:09:50.42\00:09:53.96
So when I went away, I grew up
born and raised in Loma Linda.
00:09:53.99\00:09:58.49
So definitely the culture,
00:09:58.53\00:09:59.86
you know, was in the environment
00:09:59.89\00:10:01.23
and everything.
00:10:01.26\00:10:02.60
Lot of Adventists
there, big church,
00:10:02.63\00:10:04.60
then I thought my
first year of college,
00:10:04.63\00:10:06.90
I really wanted
to see beyond that
00:10:06.94\00:10:08.60
kind of get out of the culture.
00:10:08.64\00:10:11.24
But at the same time,
00:10:11.27\00:10:12.61
I went to an
Adventist College in England.
00:10:12.64\00:10:16.11
And that exposed me to a
lot of different cultures.
00:10:16.14\00:10:19.28
And had a really
wonderful experience there.
00:10:19.31\00:10:22.72
But it was there,
00:10:22.75\00:10:24.12
that my personal
walk with God began
00:10:24.15\00:10:27.49
and it was kind of interesting
how it was initiated,
00:10:27.52\00:10:29.79
because wasn't something I
was necessarily looking for,
00:10:29.82\00:10:35.60
but God saw me.
00:10:35.63\00:10:36.97
And I think that's so cool.
00:10:37.00\00:10:39.13
Sometimes I
think about Zacchaeus,
00:10:39.17\00:10:41.07
you know, kind of
obscure, high up in a tree.
00:10:41.10\00:10:43.77
Maybe having some
interest, some inclination,
00:10:43.81\00:10:47.11
but still feeling
like a big sinner.
00:10:47.14\00:10:48.81
You know, like, I can't really,
00:10:48.84\00:10:50.91
I can't hang out
with the everyone else
00:10:50.95\00:10:53.11
because of my sin, and etc.
00:10:53.15\00:10:55.38
So I kind of
sometimes relate to that.
00:10:55.42\00:10:58.02
And yet, God, Jesus
saw him and chose him.
00:10:58.05\00:11:02.76
And anyway, I
just love that part
00:11:02.79\00:11:04.73
that somehow Jesus saw me
00:11:04.76\00:11:06.33
and started drawing
my heart towards him.
00:11:06.36\00:11:08.76
He, what he used was,
00:11:08.80\00:11:11.83
there was a
student week of prayer
00:11:11.87\00:11:13.60
where the students actually
did the speaking for the,
00:11:13.64\00:11:16.77
you know, week of prayer.
00:11:16.81\00:11:18.14
And I was there as a freshman,
and I didn't have a major,
00:11:18.17\00:11:21.18
and I wasn't... Into
theology or anything.
00:11:21.21\00:11:24.11
Into theology or a
super spiritual person
00:11:24.15\00:11:26.25
or anything like that.
00:11:26.28\00:11:28.28
And yet, one of my professors
00:11:28.32\00:11:32.12
wrote a letter of
invitation to speak at this
00:11:32.15\00:11:35.72
student week of prayer.
00:11:35.76\00:11:37.09
Everyone else that they
had asked was a theology major,
00:11:37.13\00:11:39.63
or a history major,
and they were all seniors.
00:11:39.66\00:11:41.40
Wow.
00:11:41.43\00:11:42.76
Sounds like,
somehow there was a mix up,
00:11:42.80\00:11:44.63
this was a huge mistake.
00:11:44.67\00:11:46.57
So... God doesn't make mistake.
00:11:46.60\00:11:48.20
No, He doesn't.
00:11:48.24\00:11:49.57
He was trying to get
you to speak for Him.
00:11:49.60\00:11:51.94
Right.
00:11:51.97\00:11:53.31
So I went to the professor,
00:11:53.34\00:11:54.68
and I was like,
there was a mistake.
00:11:54.71\00:11:56.38
He said, "No
this wasn't a mistake.
00:11:56.41\00:11:57.75
I really would like for you
to, you know, consider this."
00:11:57.78\00:12:00.45
And he gave me a
day to think about it.
00:12:00.48\00:12:02.58
And I kept trying to think
00:12:02.62\00:12:03.95
how in the world am I
gonna get out of this.
00:12:03.99\00:12:05.32
And anyway, in my mind,
00:12:05.35\00:12:08.32
what I thought
was gonna be a viable
00:12:08.36\00:12:10.69
excuse to get out of
it was to basically say,
00:12:10.73\00:12:15.46
I need time to study
for a sermon like this.
00:12:15.50\00:12:17.50
I've never done
anything like this in my life.
00:12:17.53\00:12:20.10
And I would have to
drop one of my classes,
00:12:20.14\00:12:24.01
in order for me to
not have a full load
00:12:24.04\00:12:26.34
so that I could
dedicate time to the preparation
00:12:26.37\00:12:28.31
for this one sermon.
00:12:28.34\00:12:29.84
And anyway, the
professor took the slip.
00:12:29.88\00:12:32.75
And it was past time to
drop a class and everything.
00:12:32.78\00:12:34.88
So I thought for sure,
it was gonna be my way out,
00:12:34.92\00:12:36.92
but he grabbed a slip signed it,
00:12:36.95\00:12:38.29
he dropped me from his class.
00:12:38.32\00:12:39.65
His class.
00:12:39.69\00:12:41.02
Yeah.
00:12:41.06\00:12:42.39
Wow.
00:12:42.42\00:12:43.76
And I left the
office just kinda like,
00:12:43.79\00:12:45.13
ah, that didn't work, you know.
00:12:45.16\00:12:46.66
But I thankfully followed
through with what I told him.
00:12:46.70\00:12:50.47
And that was they
gave me a Bible verse.
00:12:50.50\00:12:52.73
So that was kinda like my lead,
00:12:52.77\00:12:54.84
and it was seek ye
first the Kingdom of God,
00:12:54.87\00:12:56.81
and all these things
shall be added unto you.
00:12:56.84\00:12:59.27
And I had never studied
the Bible for myself, right?
00:12:59.31\00:13:04.45
And so, but the
hour, I said, okay,
00:13:04.48\00:13:06.95
instead of this class period,
00:13:06.98\00:13:08.32
I'm gonna dedicate that time
to preparing for this one talk.
00:13:08.35\00:13:12.62
And so day after day,
you know, for that one hour,
00:13:12.65\00:13:16.93
everybody else was in class.
00:13:16.96\00:13:18.29
So I was, you know,
alone in my dorm room.
00:13:18.33\00:13:20.83
And God starts
teaching me through His Word
00:13:20.86\00:13:24.67
and yet the word
was a challenge for me.
00:13:24.70\00:13:27.00
I fell in love with the Word.
00:13:27.04\00:13:28.47
I love to read. I love learning.
00:13:28.50\00:13:31.37
But my mind yet
wasn't in tune with
00:13:31.41\00:13:35.31
how to totally grasp everything
00:13:35.34\00:13:36.78
that was in the Word.
00:13:36.81\00:13:38.15
Yeah.
00:13:38.18\00:13:39.51
So that became a
journey for me and a quest.
00:13:39.55\00:13:41.78
But that's probably
the most powerful thing
00:13:41.82\00:13:43.82
that has shaped my
Christian experience
00:13:43.85\00:13:45.99
is the Word of God,
00:13:46.02\00:13:47.36
and then learning how
to study the Word of God.
00:13:47.39\00:13:50.56
And... Absolutely.
00:13:50.59\00:13:51.93
Yeah.
00:13:51.96\00:13:53.29
And see that's huge,
because he took that,
00:13:53.33\00:13:55.83
you were trying to
make these excuses,
00:13:55.86\00:13:57.57
you were trying
to get out of it,
00:13:57.60\00:13:59.07
and everything like that.
00:13:59.10\00:14:00.60
And I mean, it's
kinda like how Moses was.
00:14:00.64\00:14:03.67
Moses was
trying to make excuses.
00:14:03.71\00:14:05.51
He was trying to get out of it.
00:14:05.54\00:14:07.48
But that just wasn't happening.
00:14:07.51\00:14:09.01
And we see, you
know, in the Bible,
00:14:09.04\00:14:11.01
the wonderful things
that God did through Moses.
00:14:11.05\00:14:14.78
So that's huge.
00:14:14.82\00:14:16.15
I love the fact that
they had the students speaking
00:14:16.18\00:14:18.95
and all of that as well.
00:14:18.99\00:14:21.66
How did you two meet because
you complement each other
00:14:21.69\00:14:24.66
so well, even with,
you know, your love for God
00:14:24.69\00:14:27.86
and your passion for the gospel?
00:14:27.90\00:14:30.20
How did you two meet?
00:14:30.23\00:14:31.57
Well, it's interesting
because Rise was just sharing,
00:14:31.60\00:14:33.90
you know, Matthew 6:33,
00:14:33.94\00:14:35.27
"Seek ye first the kingdom
of God and His righteous."
00:14:35.30\00:14:37.41
And that was a key verse
for me in those early moments,
00:14:37.44\00:14:40.64
those early times of experience.
00:14:40.68\00:14:42.54
But another key for me
once I became an Adventist
00:14:42.58\00:14:45.15
was learning how
to study the Bible.
00:14:45.18\00:14:48.28
I was doing Bible
lessons with a Bible worker,
00:14:48.32\00:14:50.82
they were taking me
through these lessons.
00:14:50.85\00:14:52.49
But once I learned
how to study the Bible
00:14:52.52\00:14:55.56
that just knocked it
out of the park for me.
00:14:55.59\00:14:57.43
How to use the
Strong's Concordance.
00:14:57.46\00:14:59.16
I felt like I had
to go through this,
00:14:59.19\00:15:01.10
this class twice to get it.
00:15:01.13\00:15:02.83
I felt like I could
go anywhere in the Bible
00:15:02.86\00:15:05.37
and start to study it
and really figure it out.
00:15:05.40\00:15:08.50
Yes.
00:15:08.54\00:15:09.87
So not only that impact
my life in a powerful way,
00:15:09.90\00:15:12.67
but I was, you know, working
with a ministry that was doing
00:15:12.71\00:15:16.08
a little two week school.
00:15:16.11\00:15:17.85
And in that school,
I was teaching people
00:15:17.88\00:15:20.68
how to say the Bible.
00:15:20.72\00:15:22.12
Well guess who
came to that school?
00:15:22.15\00:15:24.15
Rise? Soon to be right.
00:15:24.19\00:15:26.65
Yeah. Yes.
00:15:26.69\00:15:29.09
Yes.
00:15:29.12\00:15:30.46
So that was
kinda interesting that,
00:15:30.49\00:15:31.83
that I learned about the school.
00:15:31.86\00:15:34.46
And I heard about
Light Bearers, actually,
00:15:34.50\00:15:36.87
when I was in Europe.
00:15:36.90\00:15:38.23
And that was kinda
an interesting thing,
00:15:38.27\00:15:39.90
how God introduced
me to Light Bearers.
00:15:39.93\00:15:41.90
Then that next
year, I would receive
00:15:41.94\00:15:43.87
some back then it was
tapes, listen to some sermons,
00:15:43.91\00:15:46.98
you know, by tapes, but I
heard that they had this school.
00:15:47.01\00:15:49.61
And as I mentioned,
that was the one thing
00:15:49.64\00:15:50.98
I really wanted to learn.
00:15:51.01\00:15:52.35
I was hungry to learn
how to study the Bible.
00:15:52.38\00:15:54.98
Yes.
00:15:55.02\00:15:56.35
And so, I told my mom,
we lived in Loma Linda,
00:15:56.38\00:15:59.02
Southern California, he
was in Northeast Washington.
00:15:59.05\00:16:01.89
I said, mom, I'm gonna go
to this school this summer.
00:16:01.92\00:16:04.79
You wanna come with me?
00:16:04.83\00:16:06.16
So we drove up
how many thousands...
00:16:06.19\00:16:09.03
One thousand four
hundred. Fourteen hundred miles.
00:16:09.06\00:16:11.07
So we drove 1400 miles. And...
00:16:11.10\00:16:12.83
One way
00:16:12.87\00:16:14.20
And kept driving
and driving and driving
00:16:14.24\00:16:15.57
and driving and
driving and went to this,
00:16:15.60\00:16:19.61
found this
little town called Milo.
00:16:19.64\00:16:21.68
And we're driving and it says,
entering Milo, leaving Milo.
00:16:21.71\00:16:26.05
We were like,
Where are we going?
00:16:26.08\00:16:29.78
You think this
place is small. Yeah.
00:16:29.82\00:16:34.02
This is a
metropolis compared to Milo.
00:16:34.06\00:16:35.82
Yes, yes. But we
really enjoyed it.
00:16:35.86\00:16:37.76
It was in the middle of nowhere,
00:16:37.79\00:16:39.26
and we camped out had a tent.
00:16:39.29\00:16:41.83
My mom was a trooper,
00:16:41.86\00:16:43.20
so and we had
classes every single day.
00:16:43.23\00:16:46.37
And James was one
of our instructors.
00:16:46.40\00:16:48.54
Student teacher
relationship. Wow. Okay.
00:16:48.57\00:16:51.77
Well, we actually
didn't get to know
00:16:51.81\00:16:53.14
each other there
like that at all.
00:16:53.17\00:16:54.54
That's true. Gotcha.
00:16:54.58\00:16:55.91
So it was a little
bit later that you.
00:16:55.94\00:16:58.05
Okay, yeah, okay.
00:16:58.08\00:16:59.41
Yeah, I thought
Rise had a boyfriend
00:16:59.45\00:17:00.78
when she was there.
00:17:00.82\00:17:02.15
She was hanging
out with this guy
00:17:02.18\00:17:03.52
who happened to be
there also that they had
00:17:03.55\00:17:04.89
gone to school
together, to college
00:17:04.92\00:17:06.69
together for some time,
00:17:06.72\00:17:08.06
and they were so
they were friends.
00:17:08.09\00:17:09.49
But I thought they were
maybe boyfriend and girlfriend.
00:17:09.52\00:17:11.79
At that time, I
was looking for a wife,
00:17:11.83\00:17:13.29
you know, I
come into the church,
00:17:13.33\00:17:15.56
thinking to myself, you know,
marrying and giving in marriage
00:17:15.60\00:17:17.60
is an end time
sign in Matthew 24.
00:17:17.63\00:17:19.93
So I better not get married,
I won't even go to a wedding.
00:17:19.97\00:17:22.20
I was really, you
know, kind of hold off.
00:17:22.24\00:17:25.51
And as time went on,
when I became an Adventist,
00:17:25.54\00:17:28.68
it was in 1984.
00:17:28.71\00:17:30.81
And when I...
00:17:30.85\00:17:32.18
When Rise came to
the school was in 1988.
00:17:32.21\00:17:34.48
So about four years had gone by,
00:17:34.52\00:17:35.85
and I finally kind of
mellowed out a little bit,
00:17:35.88\00:17:39.29
and started to see
more of the balance.
00:17:39.32\00:17:40.76
You know, Genesis Chapter 2,
00:17:40.79\00:17:42.56
God looks at Adam
and says, you know,
00:17:42.59\00:17:43.93
it's not good
for man to be alone.
00:17:43.96\00:17:45.53
And some people shared with me,
00:17:45.56\00:17:46.90
you know, you're
the marrying type.
00:17:46.93\00:17:48.26
You're the family type.
00:17:48.30\00:17:49.63
You're that, that's
the kind of person you are,
00:17:49.66\00:17:51.00
and they were right.
00:17:51.03\00:17:52.37
So I was starting to
be open to that and look,
00:17:52.40\00:17:53.90
and but Rise was
taken in my book.
00:17:53.94\00:17:56.27
Got you.
00:17:56.30\00:17:57.64
So God had to perform a
little miracle to actually
00:17:57.67\00:17:59.07
get us together.
00:17:59.11\00:18:00.44
But He did that,
He got us connected.
00:18:00.48\00:18:01.81
Did you even ask her
if she was taken though?
00:18:01.84\00:18:03.58
No, didn't talk to her at
all. She's got a boyfriend.
00:18:03.61\00:18:05.38
He was in balance, you know,
00:18:05.41\00:18:06.82
came at a
different time for marriage.
00:18:06.85\00:18:08.78
Look at her, you know? Oh, man.
00:18:08.82\00:18:11.69
So he ended up
bringing you together later on.
00:18:11.72\00:18:14.52
And you got...
00:18:14.56\00:18:15.89
I was trying to get my
sister out of the church
00:18:15.92\00:18:17.26
when I came in.
00:18:17.29\00:18:18.63
She was trying
to get do everything
00:18:18.66\00:18:20.00
she could to
get out of giving us
00:18:20.03\00:18:21.36
Bible study the week of prayer,
00:18:21.40\00:18:22.73
and God says I'm gonna use that.
00:18:22.76\00:18:24.10
So yeah, to God, it was
amazing how He worked out.
00:18:24.13\00:18:26.13
Absolutely.
00:18:26.17\00:18:27.50
And so what would you say
are some keys to a successful
00:18:27.54\00:18:31.37
marriage or keys to
growth in your own marriage?
00:18:31.41\00:18:34.68
What's really
interesting because Rise and I,
00:18:34.71\00:18:36.68
both came from, you
know, single parent homes,
00:18:36.71\00:18:40.05
both raised by
our moms basically.
00:18:40.08\00:18:41.88
So there's dysfunction there.
00:18:41.92\00:18:44.95
And you know, we
become that, I mean,
00:18:44.99\00:18:46.52
I became an Adventist,
she was a converted Adventist.
00:18:46.55\00:18:49.36
I mean, she was
never raised an Adventist
00:18:49.39\00:18:50.73
but became converted, you know.
00:18:50.76\00:18:52.09
So both even ask the
Lord seeking Him first.
00:18:52.13\00:18:55.00
And when we started dating,
and having this relationship,
00:18:55.03\00:18:58.17
we knew that God was leading us,
00:18:58.20\00:18:59.93
but we didn't
really have a clue.
00:18:59.97\00:19:02.30
You know, all we'd
known is the way of the world.
00:19:02.34\00:19:04.17
And so, we started
reading and studying
00:19:04.21\00:19:05.97
and we developed principles,
00:19:06.01\00:19:08.48
I shouldn't say,
we develop principles,
00:19:08.51\00:19:09.84
we discovered
principles that we were putting
00:19:09.88\00:19:11.48
together on how to
have relationships,
00:19:11.51\00:19:13.21
how to date etcetera.
00:19:13.25\00:19:14.58
So we thought
we've done this right.
00:19:14.62\00:19:15.95
We get into marriage,
our first year of marriage,
00:19:15.98\00:19:19.22
we're in marriage counseling.
00:19:19.25\00:19:20.86
And it was really
humbling for me because,
00:19:20.89\00:19:22.76
you know, I'm a
preacher you know,
00:19:22.79\00:19:24.43
and I'm thinking
not, what do you mean?
00:19:24.46\00:19:26.49
I did this right. You
know, I know what's gonna here,
00:19:26.53\00:19:28.93
you know, and it
was hard to just admit,
00:19:28.96\00:19:30.97
you know, we need help.
00:19:31.00\00:19:32.33
And what I wanna say at this
point is all couples need help.
00:19:32.37\00:19:35.44
Marriage is not the
end of relationship growth
00:19:35.47\00:19:39.47
and education,
it's the beginning.
00:19:39.51\00:19:41.38
When you step into marriage,
00:19:41.41\00:19:42.74
you start to learn about
marriage and what it's like
00:19:42.78\00:19:45.41
and how to keep it together.
00:19:45.45\00:19:46.78
So a lot of people
think, oh, you get married,
00:19:46.82\00:19:48.18
there he is gonna
be happy ever after.
00:19:48.22\00:19:49.62
No.
00:19:49.65\00:19:50.99
Marriage is the time
00:19:51.02\00:19:52.35
when you start learning
things about the other person
00:19:52.39\00:19:54.26
that you never
could have learned.
00:19:54.29\00:19:55.62
So that's one of
the first things,
00:19:55.66\00:19:57.03
one of the first principles
I think that we've learned
00:19:57.06\00:19:59.09
is that marrying is
continuing education.
00:19:59.13\00:20:01.80
Marriage is
continuing education.
00:20:01.83\00:20:03.16
Would you say that also
in marriage you learn a lot
00:20:03.20\00:20:05.53
about yourself
through your spouse?
00:20:05.57\00:20:09.20
Yeah, definitely
like very self regulatory.
00:20:09.24\00:20:12.94
I was just gonna add
something to what James said too
00:20:12.97\00:20:15.08
and that is I think
it's important that you know
00:20:15.11\00:20:18.11
who you're married to,
and not trying to make them
00:20:18.15\00:20:21.25
who you want to be married to.
00:20:21.28\00:20:23.59
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:20:23.62\00:20:24.95
Like you have
this kind of idealistic
00:20:24.99\00:20:26.32
sometimes fantasy picture
00:20:26.35\00:20:27.69
of what we want in a
spouse and you better be it,
00:20:27.72\00:20:31.89
you know?
00:20:31.93\00:20:33.36
And that I think
can really destroy
00:20:33.40\00:20:37.10
a lot of intimacy
and love in relationship.
00:20:37.13\00:20:41.20
So in other words
too, don't marry potential,
00:20:41.24\00:20:45.01
you know?
00:20:45.04\00:20:46.44
And like, don't marry someone
for who they could become,
00:20:46.47\00:20:49.98
you need to marry them for like
00:20:50.01\00:20:51.75
who they are at that
moment and they never changed,
00:20:51.78\00:20:55.02
then you would be...
00:20:55.05\00:20:56.38
Yeah. Okay.
00:20:56.42\00:20:57.75
You know, having said that James
00:20:57.79\00:20:59.12
and I were two
dysfunctional sinners
00:20:59.15\00:21:02.02
just like everyone else.
00:21:02.06\00:21:03.93
And like he said, we
came from single parent homes
00:21:03.96\00:21:06.33
and definitely
had a lot to learn.
00:21:06.36\00:21:09.23
But I think a key
in a marriage situation
00:21:09.26\00:21:12.03
is that you just
kinda acknowledge that.
00:21:12.07\00:21:14.94
I was thinking,
you know, what brings,
00:21:14.97\00:21:17.04
what makes people
happy in a marriage.
00:21:17.07\00:21:19.07
What's the key to having
being having a happy marriage?
00:21:19.11\00:21:21.24
And like you said,
you guys are well matched.
00:21:21.28\00:21:23.31
And I think we are.
James and I are well matched.
00:21:23.35\00:21:25.98
But it's because
we worked for it.
00:21:26.01\00:21:27.62
Yeah. Yes. Do
you know what I mean?
00:21:27.65\00:21:28.98
Like we've worked hard.
00:21:29.02\00:21:30.35
And James and I
aren't afraid of hard work.
00:21:30.39\00:21:32.49
We have attempted
and accomplished a lot
00:21:32.52\00:21:35.46
of things in our lives.
00:21:35.49\00:21:36.83
We built our own first home.
00:21:36.86\00:21:38.19
We had no idea
what we were doing.
00:21:38.23\00:21:39.56
You know what I'm saying?
00:21:39.59\00:21:40.93
But we just rolled up our
sleeves and we're like okay,
00:21:40.96\00:21:42.60
let's just do this thing,
00:21:42.63\00:21:43.97
you know, with
consistency and that's kind
00:21:44.00\00:21:45.70
of how we've approached
our marriage to be honest
00:21:45.73\00:21:47.47
with you like we
really don't know totally
00:21:47.50\00:21:49.54
what we're doing.
00:21:49.57\00:21:50.91
I love you, I'm
committed to you.
00:21:50.94\00:21:53.38
But happy marriage
day by day consistently it
00:21:53.41\00:21:57.05
takes a little
bit more than that,
00:21:57.08\00:21:58.41
there's some skills
that we needed to learn
00:21:58.45\00:22:00.02
and being willing
to just acknowledge
00:22:00.05\00:22:02.98
that I don't come to the
table knowing everything.
00:22:03.02\00:22:06.55
Being humble, you
know, having that humility.
00:22:06.59\00:22:08.99
So I was thinking about
the Beatitudes, you know,
00:22:09.02\00:22:10.99
blessed are the and that's
kind of like happy are the,
00:22:11.03\00:22:15.13
you know, the people who
are willing to be merciful
00:22:15.16\00:22:17.20
to each other and
meek in own, our own...
00:22:17.23\00:22:21.67
Failures.
Failures, mistakes, yeah.
00:22:21.70\00:22:24.41
And being
willing to be called out
00:22:24.44\00:22:26.21
and not retaliate
or throw another punch
00:22:26.24\00:22:30.01
back type of thing.
00:22:30.05\00:22:31.38
I think anyway, I
think the Beatitudes
00:22:31.41\00:22:32.75
have a lot of ingredients
to a successful happy marriage
00:22:32.78\00:22:37.45
That's very important.
00:22:37.49\00:22:38.89
You look like you
want to say something.
00:22:38.92\00:22:40.46
Well, yeah, there was a
lot of books that really
00:22:40.49\00:22:42.46
helped us too.
00:22:42.49\00:22:43.83
I remember the
first book we read was
00:22:43.86\00:22:45.76
or it was actually a cassette,
you know, we're going back
00:22:45.79\00:22:48.00
now because when we were dating
we didn't have cell phones,
00:22:48.03\00:22:51.93
you know, these
things weren't available.
00:22:51.97\00:22:53.50
It was just
landline so a lot of our,
00:22:53.54\00:22:55.94
all of our
communication basically most
00:22:55.97\00:22:57.67
of it was letters and we
still got all our letters.
00:22:57.71\00:22:59.67
All those
letters I wrote to Rise,
00:22:59.71\00:23:01.04
all those she wrote to
me, we still got them all.
00:23:01.08\00:23:02.41
Wow. Yeah, they're in file.
00:23:02.44\00:23:04.81
I might take, you
know, a handsome some form,
00:23:04.85\00:23:07.18
but I think we're gonna keep
them other than that, right?
00:23:07.22\00:23:10.62
Nobody wants our
letters. No one wants to let go.
00:23:10.65\00:23:13.36
Anyway, so we started
00:23:13.39\00:23:16.09
when we got into
these difficulties,
00:23:16.12\00:23:17.56
we started people would say,
hey, you should read this book.
00:23:17.59\00:23:19.79
Maybe this could
help or the counselors
00:23:19.83\00:23:21.53
we are with and
so the first one was,
00:23:21.56\00:23:23.83
Men are from Mars,
Women are from Venus.
00:23:23.87\00:23:25.27
Okay.
00:23:25.30\00:23:26.63
And the basic premise that
00:23:26.67\00:23:28.00
I got from that there's
a lot of stuff in there.
00:23:28.04\00:23:29.37
But the basic premise
I got was that you know,
00:23:29.40\00:23:32.01
Rise is talking to you about
her day or about her troubles
00:23:32.04\00:23:35.01
not because she
wants advice or correction
00:23:35.04\00:23:37.15
or what you should do
this or should do that,
00:23:37.18\00:23:38.51
she's talking to you about it
because she wants to be heard.
00:23:38.55\00:23:41.25
And she wants empathy,
understanding, just listen,
00:23:41.28\00:23:43.92
and empathize.
00:23:43.95\00:23:45.29
And I thought it
can't be that simple.
00:23:45.32\00:23:46.72
It can't be that simple.
00:23:46.76\00:23:48.22
I remember, you know, I
would have conversations
00:23:48.26\00:23:50.29
with my mom.
00:23:50.33\00:23:51.66
She lived in England and
she would call me on the phone
00:23:51.69\00:23:53.63
and she would tell
me about, you know,
00:23:53.66\00:23:55.20
things that were going on
over there with family this
00:23:55.23\00:23:57.43
and the other and every
time she would call me almost,
00:23:57.47\00:24:01.37
we would end up in this conflict
00:24:01.40\00:24:03.87
and she would be upset
with me and we'd hang up
00:24:03.91\00:24:06.04
the phone and Rise
would go, "How did it go on?"
00:24:06.07\00:24:07.81
I say, "It
didn't end well again.
00:24:07.84\00:24:09.51
It didn't end well again."
00:24:09.54\00:24:11.01
And I thought I wonder
if this principle will work
00:24:11.05\00:24:13.05
with my mom.
00:24:13.08\00:24:14.42
So the next time
she called me, I...
00:24:14.45\00:24:16.45
She was telling me this
and telling me that and I said,
00:24:16.48\00:24:17.95
wow, really? Wow.
00:24:17.99\00:24:19.32
That's really something I
didn't give her any advice
00:24:19.35\00:24:20.92
and try to show her what she
needs to do or this and that.
00:24:20.96\00:24:23.53
I just listened and empathized.
00:24:23.56\00:24:25.36
And when we got done with
the conversation she said,
00:24:25.39\00:24:26.73
I feel so much
better. Thank you.
00:24:26.76\00:24:29.16
I thought it works.
00:24:29.20\00:24:30.80
Whereas men, they want answers.
00:24:30.83\00:24:34.04
If I'm talking to another man
about a situation or problem,
00:24:34.07\00:24:37.21
I want you to give me
some counsel or some advice.
00:24:37.24\00:24:38.87
I don't want you
just go, oh, poor,
00:24:38.91\00:24:40.84
God feel sorry for you
hope everything works out.
00:24:40.88\00:24:42.78
See you later, you
know, I'm thinking,
00:24:42.81\00:24:44.61
can you help me, you know?
00:24:44.65\00:24:45.98
Tell me what I need to do.
00:24:46.01\00:24:47.35
So there's a lot of other books,
00:24:47.38\00:24:48.72
there was the love languages.
00:24:48.75\00:24:50.09
That one was huge.
00:24:50.12\00:24:51.45
I'm changing our marriage
because we realized we weren't,
00:24:51.49\00:24:53.96
we didn't know each
other's love language.
00:24:53.99\00:24:56.56
And a lot of people I
come to learn that's common.
00:24:56.59\00:25:00.30
You know, where
we really don't speak
00:25:00.33\00:25:01.73
each other's love language.
00:25:01.76\00:25:03.10
So we end up feeling
unloved within our own marriage.
00:25:03.13\00:25:06.50
And that can breed insecurity
and poor relationships.
00:25:06.53\00:25:11.94
So, yeah, willing to learn
00:25:11.97\00:25:13.84
what the other person's love
language was, but then learning
00:25:13.88\00:25:16.58
how to do that
consistently on a daily basis.
00:25:16.61\00:25:19.51
And then understanding
the mind of a woman,
00:25:19.55\00:25:21.08
that was a big one for Rise.
00:25:21.12\00:25:22.58
That was a book about, you know,
00:25:22.62\00:25:24.09
we should live with our
wives in an understanding way.
00:25:24.12\00:25:26.99
That's what the Bible says.
00:25:27.02\00:25:28.36
And I remember was in Sabbath
School class that was such
00:25:28.39\00:25:31.29
a blessing to me.
00:25:31.33\00:25:32.66
And in church, I said, you know,
00:25:32.69\00:25:34.26
pastors give me
permission to do Sabbath School
00:25:34.30\00:25:36.36
class for men, married men
00:25:36.40\00:25:38.07
and understand
the mind of woman.
00:25:38.10\00:25:39.43
And guy in the back
waving his hand, he said,
00:25:39.47\00:25:41.20
how many years that
Sabbath School class gonna be?
00:25:41.24\00:25:44.91
And I said, that's
exactly the problem.
00:25:44.94\00:25:46.81
Because we think it's
impossible to understand
00:25:46.84\00:25:48.91
the mind of a woman.
00:25:48.94\00:25:50.28
And yet the Bible
says we should live with
00:25:50.31\00:25:51.65
our wives in an
understanding way.
00:25:51.68\00:25:53.31
And a big one for me.
00:25:53.35\00:25:55.68
The one that made a
huge impact on what Rise,
00:25:55.72\00:25:59.25
a book that Rise read
that made a huge impact on me.
00:25:59.29\00:26:01.16
Yeah, The Proper Care
and Feeding of Your Husband.
00:26:01.19\00:26:03.39
That was another
one that... Really?
00:26:03.43\00:26:05.29
That was a good one. Yeah.
00:26:05.33\00:26:06.66
Praise the Lord. That was great.
00:26:06.70\00:26:08.13
Yeah. And you
make healthy food, too.
00:26:08.16\00:26:11.60
Yeah. But you know,
to feed the husband,
00:26:11.63\00:26:13.64
it's like food.
00:26:13.67\00:26:15.00
But then there's
more that really feeds
00:26:15.04\00:26:16.40
the heart of our husband.
00:26:16.44\00:26:17.77
So it just kind of,
yeah, embellished on that.
00:26:17.81\00:26:19.77
And then the more
recent one we read was dealing
00:26:19.81\00:26:23.41
with how to communicate better
and difficult relationships.
00:26:23.45\00:26:27.58
Feel like conflict resolution,
how to manage those situations.
00:26:27.62\00:26:30.42
How to truly even prevent them.
00:26:30.45\00:26:31.85
How to truly
listen to each other,
00:26:31.89\00:26:33.32
how to interact
with communication.
00:26:33.36\00:26:36.29
So what I'm gathering
from you is it's an ongoing,
00:26:36.32\00:26:39.83
ongoing learning process.
00:26:39.86\00:26:42.23
Yes. But we keep it fun.
00:26:42.26\00:26:43.60
Yeah. Yes.
00:26:43.63\00:26:45.13
We watch seminars, you know,
00:26:45.17\00:26:46.70
and sharing with others.
00:26:46.74\00:26:48.07
So we've been, we've
done, we've been counseled,
00:26:48.10\00:26:50.01
and we've counseled others.
00:26:50.04\00:26:51.87
And you learn a lot as you
interact with different people.
00:26:51.91\00:26:54.58
You learn a lot about,
00:26:54.61\00:26:55.94
you know, the different
personalities that we have.
00:26:55.98\00:26:57.31
We've taken personality
test that helps also.
00:26:57.35\00:27:00.02
So everything has its place.
00:27:00.05\00:27:01.95
The Word of God is
the foundation across
00:27:01.98\00:27:03.65
the basis. One of the things
that that really helped me
00:27:03.69\00:27:06.96
and understand that my
woman was to love my wife,
00:27:06.99\00:27:09.66
as Christ loved the church.
00:27:09.69\00:27:11.03
Christ took
responsibility for our sin.
00:27:11.06\00:27:13.16
He didn't sin, He
didn't do anything wrong,
00:27:13.19\00:27:14.86
but He took responsibility.
00:27:14.90\00:27:16.26
So I wanna blame
00:27:16.30\00:27:17.63
my wife for what she's
responsible for but the husband
00:27:17.67\00:27:20.77
is to take full responsibility
for the whole thing.
00:27:20.80\00:27:23.04
And that was huge.
00:27:23.07\00:27:24.41
That's deep, and
that's a lot of people don't,
00:27:24.44\00:27:26.37
they don't grasp that concept.
00:27:26.41\00:27:28.21
They don't grab that.
00:27:28.24\00:27:29.74
Look, I should have had
a pen and a piece of paper.
00:27:29.78\00:27:32.15
So I could take some
notes with all these keys.
00:27:32.18\00:27:35.18
I'll catch it on YouTube,
00:27:35.22\00:27:36.82
I have to write it down on
Dare to Dream YouTube channel.
00:27:36.85\00:27:40.26
But thank you so
much for coming on
00:27:40.29\00:27:41.69
and being transparent.
00:27:41.72\00:27:43.06
We'll have to talk
about health in the future.
00:27:43.09\00:27:45.13
And I wanna thank you for
taking the time to join us
00:27:45.16\00:27:49.00
as you always do.
00:27:49.03\00:27:50.37
And until next time,
00:27:50.40\00:27:52.37
I hope God richly
blesses you beyond
00:27:52.40\00:27:55.60
what you could ask or think.
00:27:55.64\00:27:57.17