Have you ever had a secret
that you guarded at all costs?
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Well, stay tuned to meet a man
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who's not only going
to reveal his secret,
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but he's going to share
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how he gained
the victory over it.
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My name is Jason Bradley,
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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Today's program is one
that is sensitive in nature
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and viewer
discretion is advised.
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If you are a parent and
you have young children,
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we suggest that you
watch this program first
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and then
determine whether or not
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it is suitable
for your children.
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My guests today
are Michael Carducci,
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co-founder of
Coming Out Ministries
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and Harrison Umana,
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one of the associate speakers
of Coming Out Ministries.
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Welcome to Urban Report, guys.
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It's great to be here.
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Thank you so much
for the invitation.
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Oh, you're welcome.
It's great to have you here.
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Mike, you're no stranger.
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Harrison, this
is your first time.
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And we're gonna
dive into your journey.
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But first, I want
to reintroduce Mike
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to the Dare to Dream family.
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And just share a little
bit about your journey, Mike,
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and a little bit
about Coming Out Ministries?
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Sure.
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Coming Out Ministry
started 10 years ago.
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As I was coming
back into Adventism
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after being in the gay
culture for over 20 years,
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I thought surely
there was some resources
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for people like me.
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And unfortunately, there wasn't,
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but I did meet
other individuals,
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for other individuals
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that had
ministries of their own.
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And we all got
together in Socal California
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and we decided that wow,
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if you know, if
one testimony is good,
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then multiple
testimonies has to be better.
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And that's how
Coming Out Ministry started.
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We met Harrison in
Costa Rica a few years ago
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and that was an
amazing opportunity,
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and our ministry has
gone internationally,
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recognizing that this issue
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isn't just
related to the LGBT issue,
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but all sexual immorality.
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And yeah. Yeah.
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And that now you said
something a minute ago,
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I want to rewind a
little bit, because you said,
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and you were in the gay culture,
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how did you end up?
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What was your childhood
like? And what led to that?
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Sure.
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Well, at my earliest thoughts,
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I thought that I was a
girl trapped in a boy's body.
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And I struggled
with this identity issue,
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I was surrounded by femininity.
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My dad was gone a lot
because he was in the Navy.
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But when he was home, he
was abusive, loud and angry.
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And so, as I was a little boy
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looking for the gender
stamping of masculinity,
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my dad was the example
and it was frightening to me,
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I didn't want to be like him.
So, I chose to be like my mom.
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But all of that happened
before I was even conscious.
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So, by the time I was conscious,
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I thought I was a girl
trapped in a boy's body.
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So, I prayed that
God would change me,
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I prayed that God would
make everything all right,
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but that never happened.
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But as I was developing,
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I was desperate for the
love that I needed from my dad.
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And then when the kids
saw my feminine mannerisms,
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because I was
patterning after my mom,
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they would call me
sissy, queer little girl.
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And all of that push masculinity
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even further away from me.
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And so, by the
time puberty came,
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the sex it was a mystery for me,
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wasn't women at all,
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it was actually my own.
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And so that became sexualized.
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I didn't even know any of that
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until after I
was well into my 40s.
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And walking in a
relationship with Jesus Christ
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that the Bible
started to confirm science
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and the two of
them were going together
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and opened up my eyes to
what was really going on.
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And some of the ways and reasons
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why I ended up
in the gay culture
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for over 20 years.
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Wow.
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And so how did you end
up gaining the victory?
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You know, wouldn't it be
great if God had a magic wand
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and ping and
everything is just over
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and settled.
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But, you know what was so,
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so wonderful about
Jesus as He's so patient,
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and He's long
suffering and he really,
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I really mean that,
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He suffers long
in the process of me
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getting that right
and finding that victory.
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He had to
address all of the pain
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and the
rejection that I had gone
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through all of my
life beginning with my dad,
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the kids in
school, the identity,
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confusion that I had.
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And as He started to address
all of that, then it's like,
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you know what?
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I started to resist God less.
I started to see Him working.
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And as I was being
filled with the masculine love
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that I needed from my
Savior in a healthy way,
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then other
things started to leave,
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but it was a process.
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Jason, it wasn't, you
know, all of a sudden,
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it was gone for my convenience.
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But it's amazing to submit
to that process and recognize
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that God promises
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to finish the
work that He started.
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Amen, amen.
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Okay, now fast forwarding
to when you met Harrison,
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you were invited to Costa Rica?
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Our ministry was
invited by GYC Costa Rica,
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and I remember
getting off the plane
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and there's Harrison
and his brother and a friend
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to meet us coming off the plane
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and they were
showing us around the islands
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or the area of Costa Rica
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and it was
amazing to meet Harrison.
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He's such a well put
together elder in his church
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and a very
conscientious incredibly humble,
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and I had no ideas
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what was really going on
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behind the scenes
kind of thing, but...
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He looks like he
never had a problem
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in his life.
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Look at him. He's perfect.
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Exactly.
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So, Harrison, what
was your childhood like?
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Well, I was born.
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Well, first, I want to thank you
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for the invitation
3ABN for bringing me here.
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Really, my childhood was normal,
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as the people could see,
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could see that I was
born in an Adventist home.
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But it was not
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what the people
could even wait for,
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for family.
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Because my family, my parents,
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they were always
involved in many discussions,
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problems where we were at home,
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but when we went to church
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and the different activities
that we have on the church,
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different child, etc, etc.
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We, well, I, it was
very difficult for me
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because my
identity as a Christian
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was mixed up in a way
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that when we were at the church,
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I said, Well, my
parents say to me,
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please be quiet, be respectful.
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This is the church when
we were, when we get home,
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it was a sort of, it
used to very different.
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So, your parents
didn't get along at home or?
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No, no,
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they even have
different province
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before the marriage,
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they came from
difficult families,
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broken families.
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And so, they were
carrying those kind of problems
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to our new family.
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Was there violence in your home?
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Yes.
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There was a time when,
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when, well, my
parents, most of my,
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my dad, well, you
know, the physical violence
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and so those were words
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and the kind of
things towards my mom.
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And so, there was a moment
that I was so tired about it
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even when I was a child.
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Maybe you had like
eight or nine years old
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and I was deciding myself
to not be like any one of them.
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I used to say, God,
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I just don't
want to be like them,
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I need to be different.
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So how would you say
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that witnessing
the emotional abuse
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and the verbal abuse
and the physical abuse?
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How did that affect you
and how did you cope with it?
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Well, I really, as I'm saying,
I didn't want to do the same.
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And I say, if I'm
going to get married,
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I don't want to come
to a situation like this.
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I don't know how to do it,
but I need to be different.
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But at that moment,
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I started to be
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a little bit
away from my parents,
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even was very difficult
for me to say I love you
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or so because
everything that I saw in my home
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was problems and
problems and problems.
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So, I say I am
not receiving the love
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that I really
needed at the time.
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So, I could not give to them
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the love that a child or
a son can give to them too.
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So, it was difficult.
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Did you have siblings
or do you have siblings?
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Yes. Yes, two brothers.
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But did you feel the need
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to be protective
over your siblings?
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Yes, in some cases,
the most part of them.
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My, well, I have two brothers.
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You're the oldest,
right? Yes, I'm the oldest one.
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So, they kept on the room
when they were discussing them,
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when the things
head up or weren't up,
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you know,
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I went there when
they were discussing on
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even hearing disorder.
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And so I used,
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I was in the middle of them
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tried to avoid
those kind of things.
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And my brothers,
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they were used
to keep on the room.
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So, Harrison, I'm
not clear on something
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and I think it's
just the language,
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when their discussion is
different from an argument.
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Right.
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So, were they arguing
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or were they just
having a discussion?
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Well, discussion.
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Discussion, but then
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they were starting
to fight physically.
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Okay. So, it
sounds like an argument.
00:10:01.26\00:10:03.00
Yes, like an
argument. Yeah, right.
00:10:03.03\00:10:04.83
Yes. Yeah.
00:10:04.87\00:10:06.33
And it's, and you learned,
you just learned English?
00:10:06.37\00:10:09.00
Yes. How long ago.
00:10:09.04\00:10:10.37
I think we should, we
should mention that too.
00:10:10.41\00:10:12.47
What, two years ago?
00:10:12.51\00:10:14.88
Two years ago. Two years ago?
00:10:14.91\00:10:16.24
Two years and a
half, something like that.
00:10:16.28\00:10:17.61
Well, I hope that
my Spanish one day
00:10:17.65\00:10:19.31
is like your English is.
00:10:19.35\00:10:21.22
Yeah. So, so continue.
00:10:21.25\00:10:22.98
So, as you're, you know,
00:10:23.02\00:10:24.35
you're witnessing
this emotional abuse,
00:10:24.39\00:10:26.12
this physical abuse,
00:10:26.15\00:10:27.56
you're feeling the need
00:10:27.59\00:10:28.96
to protect your younger siblings
00:10:28.99\00:10:31.63
from time to time,
00:10:31.66\00:10:33.19
and you're seeing two
different sets of people.
00:10:33.23\00:10:37.37
One set at
church, one set at home.
00:10:37.40\00:10:41.37
And so now,
00:10:41.40\00:10:42.74
you know, the Bible says
00:10:42.77\00:10:44.11
a double minded man is
unstable in all his ways.
00:10:44.14\00:10:46.51
And so, now you have
00:10:46.54\00:10:48.68
kind of a double mindedness
because you're nothing.
00:10:48.71\00:10:51.98
It sounds like there
was a lack of stability
00:10:52.01\00:10:55.28
in the home.
00:10:55.32\00:10:56.69
And so how did that
affect you going forward
00:10:56.72\00:11:00.46
in terms of sexuality or
masturbation or pornography?
00:11:00.49\00:11:05.59
How, when and how
did that come into play?
00:11:05.63\00:11:09.43
Well, as you said
00:11:09.46\00:11:11.47
there was not
stability spiritually.
00:11:11.50\00:11:16.17
Even me being
in Adventist's home
00:11:16.20\00:11:18.87
and I thought that
everything was okay
00:11:18.91\00:11:22.14
with God if I
participated on adventure clubs
00:11:22.18\00:11:25.98
or pathfinder clubs
00:11:26.01\00:11:28.18
or being in
that children's choir
00:11:28.22\00:11:31.65
or something like that,
00:11:31.69\00:11:33.02
so I thought that everything
by myself was good to God
00:11:33.05\00:11:37.13
that though
having that relationship
00:11:37.16\00:11:42.63
with God
00:11:42.66\00:11:44.83
going to the school,
00:11:44.87\00:11:46.20
I remember one
time with my classmates,
00:11:46.23\00:11:50.81
they were talking in
the time when they nap.
00:11:50.84\00:11:57.41
So, they were talking about,
one of them was talking about,
00:11:57.45\00:12:03.65
hey, guys, do you, did
you practice masturbation?
00:12:03.69\00:12:09.19
Or even, did you
watch pornography?
00:12:09.22\00:12:12.76
So, this is at
school? Yes, at the school.
00:12:12.79\00:12:15.40
That goes to the point
of why Coming Out Ministries
00:12:15.43\00:12:18.93
is so relevant to
00:12:18.97\00:12:20.30
because people are
learning things at school,
00:12:20.34\00:12:22.80
in the streets, that, you know,
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.94
some parents are
scared to talk about,
00:12:24.97\00:12:26.81
some churches
don't touch the subject.
00:12:26.84\00:12:29.91
And so, continue
00:12:29.94\00:12:31.61
'cause that
really goes to the point.
00:12:31.65\00:12:33.15
I'm really
curious how old were you?
00:12:33.18\00:12:35.38
I was like 11.
00:12:35.42\00:12:37.12
Eleven years
old. Eleven years old.
00:12:37.15\00:12:39.65
So that's like,
what? Sixth grade?
00:12:39.69\00:12:41.66
Yeah. Yeah, sixth grade.
00:12:41.69\00:12:43.32
And then was this
in a Christian school?
00:12:43.36\00:12:46.03
No, it was public
school. Public school?
00:12:46.06\00:12:47.96
Okay. But still, right.
00:12:48.00\00:12:50.00
Yes. Yeah.
00:12:50.03\00:12:51.37
So it was, it was
a curiosity for me.
00:12:51.40\00:12:55.97
I didn't know what
he was talking about.
00:12:56.00\00:12:59.61
And so when I
went to, to my home,
00:12:59.64\00:13:02.78
I just was thinking,
00:13:02.81\00:13:04.15
what did he say
00:13:04.18\00:13:05.51
that and then when he explained
00:13:05.55\00:13:08.15
a little bit of
what was going on,
00:13:08.18\00:13:11.82
my parents, they
didn't have, at that time,
00:13:11.85\00:13:15.39
they didn't have the
confidence to talk about,
00:13:15.42\00:13:18.96
about that to us.
00:13:18.99\00:13:20.83
And so, while I
fail on that curiosity,
00:13:20.86\00:13:25.83
so I tried to, to
get that pornography,
00:13:25.87\00:13:29.70
and also, I
experiencing the masturbation.
00:13:29.74\00:13:34.94
And so, I thought at the moment
that it was a matter of men,
00:13:34.98\00:13:39.75
so I said, well,
this is something normal,
00:13:39.78\00:13:42.68
this is something
that should happen in a...
00:13:42.72\00:13:47.06
in our teenage years.
00:13:47.09\00:13:48.42
So, this is not a big deal.
00:13:48.46\00:13:50.76
So, you thought it
was something naturally,
00:13:50.79\00:13:52.49
you know, it's interesting
00:13:52.53\00:13:53.86
how sin is kind
of a downward spiral,
00:13:53.90\00:13:56.36
not kind of, it
is a downward spiral
00:13:56.40\00:13:59.67
and you start with one thing,
00:13:59.70\00:14:01.87
and then it just
keeps going and going
00:14:01.90\00:14:04.04
or the frequency increases.
00:14:04.07\00:14:06.88
So, you know, you
were curious about it.
00:14:06.91\00:14:09.71
You tried it.
00:14:09.74\00:14:11.08
Did you continue that?
Was it a frequent thing?
00:14:11.11\00:14:14.08
What happened?
00:14:14.12\00:14:15.45
Yes, it was so
frequent, was so frequent.
00:14:15.48\00:14:18.59
Even it was at that kind of,
00:14:18.62\00:14:21.86
of children who
make fun for those
00:14:21.89\00:14:26.19
who were not
practicing those things.
00:14:26.23\00:14:28.56
It's interesting.
00:14:28.60\00:14:29.93
I've just recently
heard a story of a mother son.
00:14:29.96\00:14:33.20
And she, he wanted to
quit looking at pornography
00:14:33.23\00:14:36.27
and indulging in it
00:14:36.30\00:14:37.64
and he went to
an Adventist school
00:14:37.67\00:14:39.04
to an academy.
00:14:39.07\00:14:40.41
But when he went back,
00:14:40.44\00:14:41.78
and he was telling his friends
00:14:41.81\00:14:43.14
that he didn't want
to look at porn anymore,
00:14:43.18\00:14:44.75
they were making fun of him,
00:14:44.78\00:14:46.11
they were
jeering him and they go,
00:14:46.15\00:14:47.48
you're so religious,
00:14:47.52\00:14:48.85
who do you think you are, Jesus,
00:14:48.88\00:14:50.22
and they're giving
this kid a hard time
00:14:50.25\00:14:51.59
in a Christian school
00:14:51.62\00:14:52.95
because he's wanting
to give up pornography.
00:14:52.99\00:14:54.96
And it's
interesting because especially
00:14:54.99\00:14:56.56
coming from a Latin culture,
00:14:56.59\00:14:58.53
there's this
machismo that for guys,
00:14:58.56\00:15:00.96
it's acceptable
to objectify women
00:15:01.00\00:15:03.60
or to look at pornography.
00:15:03.63\00:15:04.97
It's like a rite of passage
00:15:05.00\00:15:06.50
but that also seeps into our...
00:15:06.53\00:15:08.27
That's in American culture too.
00:15:08.30\00:15:09.64
Exactly. Exactly.
00:15:09.67\00:15:11.01
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:11.04\00:15:12.57
So, continue. Yes.
00:15:12.61\00:15:14.41
So, I was
getting used to do that.
00:15:14.44\00:15:19.85
I remember one time
when one of those classmate,
00:15:19.88\00:15:23.62
the, I was making fun of him.
00:15:23.65\00:15:26.15
And right now,
I am understanding
00:15:26.19\00:15:28.49
what really
happened at that time
00:15:28.52\00:15:30.09
because he said to me,
00:15:30.13\00:15:31.49
that that's not
normal, that's not good.
00:15:31.53\00:15:34.56
That is something that
we should not practice.
00:15:34.60\00:15:38.43
And it was so why
is he saying that?
00:15:38.47\00:15:42.30
At that moment,
I didn't understand
00:15:42.34\00:15:43.87
what he was saying.
00:15:43.91\00:15:45.24
But right now, I
know that his parents,
00:15:45.27\00:15:48.31
they do care about
those issues with him...
00:15:48.34\00:15:52.41
They had the
discussion with him.
00:15:52.45\00:15:53.78
Right.
00:15:53.82\00:15:55.15
So, they had the
right conversation to him.
00:15:55.18\00:16:01.59
And so, I now
recognize and understand
00:16:01.62\00:16:05.53
that how important
is that the parents
00:16:05.56\00:16:09.23
talk about these
issues even at that, that age,
00:16:09.26\00:16:15.00
you know, and even
it needs to be earlier
00:16:15.04\00:16:20.18
because I have seen even
children of six years old
00:16:20.21\00:16:26.48
talking about sex.
00:16:26.51\00:16:28.38
And so, this is
Satan is attacking a lot.
00:16:28.42\00:16:31.55
Yeah.
00:16:31.59\00:16:32.92
And it's happening
earlier and earlier and earlier.
00:16:32.95\00:16:36.56
For you, did pornography end up
00:16:36.59\00:16:38.86
leading to
other things sexually?
00:16:38.89\00:16:41.73
Sure.
00:16:41.76\00:16:43.10
When I was 13 years
old, my parents they,
00:16:43.13\00:16:47.80
they divorced
when I was that age.
00:16:47.84\00:16:52.44
I remember that the
thoughts that I had was,
00:16:52.47\00:16:56.68
and I had like,
00:16:56.71\00:16:58.05
one year and a half
been into pornography
00:16:58.08\00:17:00.95
and masturbation
and I said to myself,
00:17:00.98\00:17:04.12
I don't want to die if,
00:17:04.15\00:17:05.85
I want to have sex
with sex with a woman.
00:17:05.89\00:17:11.96
I don't want to die
before that, before I die.
00:17:11.99\00:17:15.56
So, I was
thinking that at that age.
00:17:15.60\00:17:18.90
So that was like on
your bucket list basically.
00:17:18.93\00:17:20.64
Wow, wow. Never
heard that before.
00:17:20.67\00:17:22.50
Wow. Yeah.
00:17:22.54\00:17:23.94
And so, it is
something that lead me
00:17:23.97\00:17:28.81
to when it wasn't how to,
00:17:28.84\00:17:31.48
how to fail on that too
00:17:31.51\00:17:35.62
on the sexual activity,
00:17:35.65\00:17:39.25
but I was thinking
00:17:39.29\00:17:41.39
that everything
was normal about it.
00:17:41.42\00:17:45.59
A few years
later, I was thinking,
00:17:45.63\00:17:48.73
no, I really need to have a wife
00:17:48.76\00:17:51.33
to do those things
but my mind was thinking
00:17:51.37\00:17:54.50
that the wife was
also was only for that.
00:17:54.54\00:18:01.51
I wanted to get
married only to get some.
00:18:01.54\00:18:05.08
Okay. Okay.
00:18:05.11\00:18:06.88
So, you didn't have
the proper representation
00:18:06.92\00:18:09.98
or the proper
understanding of marriage
00:18:10.02\00:18:12.25
and you didn't have
that really in your home
00:18:12.29\00:18:15.22
a healthy marriage
that you could witness.
00:18:15.26\00:18:18.49
That's right.
00:18:18.53\00:18:19.86
Yeah, that's,
that's interesting.
00:18:19.89\00:18:21.40
That's interesting.
00:18:21.43\00:18:22.76
Let's shift gears
into your career choice.
00:18:22.80\00:18:25.80
Right?
00:18:25.83\00:18:27.17
Because didn't you, did, okay,
00:18:27.20\00:18:28.87
you left the church to
pursue a career in music?
00:18:28.90\00:18:31.91
Well, exactly, I left the church
00:18:31.94\00:18:34.28
because I was tired.
00:18:34.31\00:18:36.14
I was 19 years old
and as I was saying to you
00:18:36.18\00:18:41.22
that I wanted to
keep being part of the,
00:18:41.25\00:18:46.65
of the different activities
of my church like pathfinders,
00:18:46.69\00:18:50.23
master guide of clubs and etc.
00:18:50.26\00:18:53.63
And so, I said,
00:18:53.66\00:18:56.06
why my life is only this,
is only and only and only this.
00:18:56.10\00:19:00.10
So, I said, I
don't want more of this,
00:19:00.14\00:19:03.10
I need to leave.
00:19:03.14\00:19:04.47
I just want to know
what the world offers to me.
00:19:04.51\00:19:09.01
So I went out, I
started to frequent bars,
00:19:09.04\00:19:12.81
get drunk,
pairing with my friends,
00:19:12.85\00:19:16.89
but then eventually
I started to have some
00:19:16.92\00:19:22.99
why I like it so much
the music but this comes,
00:19:23.02\00:19:27.83
did came from my childhood
even been in Adventist home
00:19:27.86\00:19:32.73
mostly what my
parents they were used to,
00:19:32.77\00:19:36.00
to listen Christian
and also worldly music.
00:19:36.04\00:19:39.87
So, even for that
00:19:39.91\00:19:41.68
there was not a
difference for me was like,
00:19:41.71\00:19:44.45
okay, well one
talks about Jesus,
00:19:44.48\00:19:46.65
the other one not
but everything is okay.
00:19:46.68\00:19:50.15
So, at that moment
I wanted to pursue,
00:19:50.19\00:19:54.09
to be known, to be even
worship because I, at the moment
00:19:54.12\00:20:00.66
I wanted to be a DJ.
00:20:00.70\00:20:02.90
Wanted to be a DJ?
00:20:02.93\00:20:04.27
Yes, I wanted to be a
DJ for electronic music
00:20:04.30\00:20:07.67
and, and so that
was my desire to be,
00:20:07.70\00:20:14.01
to be worship to be
00:20:14.04\00:20:16.44
because I did not
receive the love that I needed
00:20:16.48\00:20:19.95
to see from my parents.
00:20:19.98\00:20:21.92
So, I wanted to get the love
00:20:21.95\00:20:23.75
from the
different people around me.
00:20:23.79\00:20:25.12
So, you were
craving that attention,
00:20:25.15\00:20:27.52
that attention
00:20:27.56\00:20:28.89
that you were so
desperately lacking
00:20:28.92\00:20:30.29
as a child.
00:20:30.33\00:20:31.66
And you were
getting some attention,
00:20:31.69\00:20:33.03
you were making
music for your friends,
00:20:33.06\00:20:34.60
you were mixing tapes.
00:20:34.63\00:20:36.10
And, yeah, so you were getting
00:20:36.13\00:20:37.53
a lot of not only
attention from them
00:20:37.57\00:20:39.27
but you were good at it.
00:20:39.30\00:20:40.64
Yes.
00:20:40.67\00:20:42.00
It was, the first time
it was difficult for me
00:20:42.04\00:20:43.67
because the most
part of my childhood
00:20:43.71\00:20:46.91
I was quiet and, you know,
00:20:46.94\00:20:50.55
that the example or the model
00:20:50.58\00:20:55.28
of how to be, you know,
00:20:55.32\00:20:57.72
because even the
people of the church
00:20:57.75\00:21:00.59
they were like,
00:21:00.62\00:21:02.09
oh, you are such a
blessing for us in the church,
00:21:02.12\00:21:05.99
you are so
spiritual, you are so good guy.
00:21:06.03\00:21:10.77
They thought
that it was complete.
00:21:10.80\00:21:14.37
You know, like,
like you say to me, like,
00:21:14.40\00:21:16.54
oh, you look so
good, you look so...
00:21:16.57\00:21:20.41
Perfect. Perfect.
00:21:20.44\00:21:22.41
So spiritual
00:21:22.44\00:21:23.95
and so they
thought the same bit.
00:21:23.98\00:21:25.88
So, you're living a double life.
00:21:25.91\00:21:28.15
Right. Even in my childhood.
00:21:28.18\00:21:30.02
And what point did you get tired
00:21:30.05\00:21:32.15
of leading that double life?
00:21:32.19\00:21:35.66
Well, that was
when I left the church.
00:21:35.69\00:21:38.86
So, I started to be,
00:21:38.89\00:21:42.90
well, to show a
little bit how it was,
00:21:42.93\00:21:46.20
what was inside of me,
00:21:46.23\00:21:49.27
but about the sexual
things I kept that secret
00:21:49.30\00:21:52.91
even when it was
out of the church
00:21:52.94\00:21:55.34
because I was not sexual
active when it was out there.
00:21:55.38\00:22:01.88
But anyways, the pornography
and masturbation was going on.
00:22:01.92\00:22:06.65
Because at the
moment when I was 19,
00:22:06.69\00:22:08.92
I got my first cell
phone with all internet,
00:22:08.96\00:22:14.03
you know, so I, I had well,
00:22:14.06\00:22:17.97
infinity of possibilities
to get that information
00:22:18.00\00:22:22.60
Yeah, it was very accessible.
00:22:22.64\00:22:25.97
At what point did God
get a hold of your life?
00:22:26.01\00:22:30.71
One time
00:22:30.75\00:22:32.08
when I returned to church again,
00:22:32.11\00:22:36.08
because I went to
visit my friends one time
00:22:36.12\00:22:41.52
and the pastor,
00:22:41.56\00:22:42.89
he was preaching a sermon
that really touched my heart
00:22:42.92\00:22:47.76
and he said, well, I
really need to return to God.
00:22:47.80\00:22:52.67
If I keep doing
what I'm doing right now,
00:22:52.70\00:22:55.70
I will not return anymore.
00:22:55.74\00:22:57.94
So, I think this
is the time to do it.
00:22:57.97\00:23:00.84
So, when I return,
00:23:00.88\00:23:05.21
I still failed that what I,
00:23:05.25\00:23:09.15
what I was doing
00:23:09.18\00:23:10.52
was not right at
the sight of Jesus,
00:23:10.55\00:23:14.89
that I say, Well,
00:23:14.92\00:23:16.62
anyways, and I'm
human, I am sinner.
00:23:16.66\00:23:20.33
So, I think that God,
00:23:20.36\00:23:21.96
really understand
that this is a weird thing
00:23:22.00\00:23:25.63
that I will keep
doing until He comes.
00:23:25.67\00:23:30.41
So basically in other words,
00:23:30.44\00:23:31.77
and I just want
to kind of sum up
00:23:31.81\00:23:33.14
what you're saying is that
00:23:33.17\00:23:34.51
even when you came back to God,
00:23:34.54\00:23:36.24
you still had struggles
00:23:36.28\00:23:38.68
and you started to
justify those struggles,
00:23:38.71\00:23:41.85
just, you know, basically saying
00:23:41.88\00:23:43.49
that God will
understand I'm a sinner,
00:23:43.52\00:23:45.42
and, you know,
I'll keep doing this,
00:23:45.45\00:23:48.52
I'm still struggling,
00:23:48.56\00:23:49.89
but you know, He'll understand.
00:23:49.92\00:23:52.26
And so, continuing on with that,
00:23:52.29\00:23:55.83
like, how did
you come out of that?
00:23:55.86\00:23:58.47
Yes, I met some
friends on my church.
00:23:58.50\00:24:05.34
Well, not in my local church,
00:24:05.37\00:24:06.74
but different
churches that they were,
00:24:06.78\00:24:10.81
they really wanted to
have a relationship with God.
00:24:10.85\00:24:14.08
So that made
that difference in me.
00:24:14.12\00:24:16.58
I really wanted
that, I saw them how they,
00:24:16.62\00:24:21.46
how they were pursuing that.
00:24:21.49\00:24:23.43
So, I wanted to do that.
00:24:23.46\00:24:24.79
And so, when they,
when they started with me
00:24:24.83\00:24:28.26
many things of the Bible
00:24:28.30\00:24:30.83
deeper that I started before.
00:24:30.87\00:24:35.70
I say not really,
00:24:35.74\00:24:37.07
this is not something
that God really liked.
00:24:37.11\00:24:40.24
Yeah.
00:24:40.28\00:24:41.61
And I should do something else.
00:24:41.64\00:24:46.25
But at that moment,
I didn't know how to...
00:24:46.28\00:24:48.98
Yeah. How to
make that transition.
00:24:49.02\00:24:50.35
How to make it. Yeah.
00:24:50.39\00:24:51.72
And so, in my
church I was having,
00:24:51.75\00:24:54.99
you know, those positions
being a deacon and being,
00:24:55.02\00:25:00.20
eventually I
came to be an elder.
00:25:00.23\00:25:04.43
Elder.
00:25:04.47\00:25:06.87
So, that was the
moment when I knew about UAC.
00:25:06.90\00:25:11.74
And so, the UAC people
really helped me about it.
00:25:11.77\00:25:16.58
I still was keeping that secret,
00:25:16.61\00:25:21.18
no one knew about that.
00:25:21.22\00:25:25.35
But I was now struggling.
00:25:25.39\00:25:27.12
I really wanted to do something,
00:25:27.16\00:25:29.22
but I didn't know how to do it.
00:25:29.26\00:25:30.86
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:30.89\00:25:32.23
I can't believe our
time is almost escaping us.
00:25:32.26\00:25:35.70
How did you end up
doing something about it?
00:25:35.73\00:25:42.40
Like how did you
end up to the point
00:25:42.44\00:25:44.31
where it was
like enough is enough?
00:25:44.34\00:25:47.11
Yes, when I met
Coming Out Ministries
00:25:47.14\00:25:49.38
when they came to Costa Rica,
00:25:49.41\00:25:52.05
I really saw how they had these,
00:25:52.08\00:25:55.28
these deeper, more
deeper than the other group
00:25:55.32\00:26:00.99
because for me
it was so difficult
00:26:01.02\00:26:03.96
to understand that I
gave could overcome that sin.
00:26:03.99\00:26:08.50
So, I say if they can have
that victory, I can have it,
00:26:08.53\00:26:12.47
but how they can have it.
00:26:12.50\00:26:14.07
So, I was their driver
00:26:14.10\00:26:16.91
when they were
there in Costa Rica.
00:26:16.94\00:26:18.87
So, I had plenty time
to see what was their life.
00:26:18.91\00:26:23.41
Yes.
00:26:23.45\00:26:24.78
And so, keeping
that relationship,
00:26:24.81\00:26:26.38
praying, studying the Bible,
00:26:26.41\00:26:28.88
but I knew that it
was something else,
00:26:28.92\00:26:31.12
it was more than that.
00:26:31.15\00:26:33.22
So, at the time,
00:26:33.25\00:26:35.62
I started to
have victory over it.
00:26:35.66\00:26:39.46
And praise,
praise the Lord for that.
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.33
You know, it
sounds like once your,
00:26:41.36\00:26:43.06
your friends had changed.
00:26:43.10\00:26:45.00
You know, they were
studying the Bible more,
00:26:45.03\00:26:47.10
it kind of inspired you
00:26:47.14\00:26:48.50
to study the Bible more as well.
00:26:48.54\00:26:50.31
You met Mike and
Coming Out Ministries
00:26:50.34\00:26:52.97
and you saw how they were living
00:26:53.01\00:26:54.51
and you saw what
they were able to gain
00:26:54.54\00:26:56.11
the victory over through Christ
00:26:56.14\00:26:58.41
and that helped inspire you too.
00:26:58.45\00:27:01.15
Thank you for sharing
your powerful testimony.
00:27:01.18\00:27:03.65
Mike, people can invite you guys
00:27:03.69\00:27:05.89
to speak at their churches.
00:27:05.92\00:27:08.02
How do they send you an email?
00:27:08.06\00:27:10.39
Yeah, ComingOutMinistries.org
is our website,
00:27:10.43\00:27:13.46
they can also email us at
Admin@ComingOutMinistries.org.
00:27:13.50\00:27:19.33
And we'd be
happy to line that up
00:27:19.37\00:27:22.74
and to talk to them
about setting up an event.
00:27:22.77\00:27:25.07
And schools, churches?
00:27:25.11\00:27:26.71
Schools,
churches, pastors' retreats.
00:27:26.74\00:27:29.41
Yeah, anything,
00:27:29.44\00:27:30.78
anything that has to do
with educating our young people
00:27:30.81\00:27:33.78
about the biblical sexuality
00:27:33.82\00:27:35.88
that God wants
for each one of us.
00:27:35.92\00:27:38.39
There was, I, I
know you're out of time
00:27:38.42\00:27:41.06
but there was this one
thing that we just started doing
00:27:41.09\00:27:43.66
with grade schoolers
00:27:43.69\00:27:45.03
talking about the
affirmation of gender identity
00:27:45.06\00:27:48.06
and how God
created the male and female
00:27:48.10\00:27:50.67
and it's really beautiful.
00:27:50.70\00:27:52.03
That's huge. These
little kids understand.
00:27:52.07\00:27:53.57
I hope people will
find out more about that.
00:27:53.60\00:27:55.67
We are out of time.
00:27:55.70\00:27:57.04
Until next time, God bless.
00:27:57.07\00:27:58.71