Where are the men in the church?
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Stay tuned to meet a man
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who is concerned
about that challenge
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and has developed
ways to address it.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis-Shelton,
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and you are
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guest today
is Dr. William Lee,
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Men's Ministry, Director
of the Lake Region Conference
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of Seventh-day Adventists,
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and host of Dare to
Dream's for guys only series.
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Welcome!
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It's so good to
have you, Dr. Lee.
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Thanks for having me today.
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I've talked to you before
via Skype on Urban Report,
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but I haven't had you in studio.
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Right.
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So this is a whole new thing
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and I'm just so
glad to have you.
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Yeah, happy to be here.
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Yes, yes.
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So you have noticed a situation
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in our churches that...
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And I don't know
if it's particularly
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in the African-American church
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or whether it is
just across the board.
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But there just seems to be
a lack of men in the church.
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This is such a female
dominated environment.
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What do you think
is going on there?
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Yeah, so the
studies actually say
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that there are
about 60% of women
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and about 40% men
there in the church.
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And the larger
the church becomes,
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the more that
deficit begins to grow.
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So that's been a burden of
mine for a number of years.
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Now I'm a pastor in
little about 16 years
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and I've been
seeing over the years...
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You are too young for that.
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I know it. You
have that baby face.
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I know it. I know it.
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Well, over the years,
I've been seeing this,
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the steady decline
every year, so it seems that
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there are less
men in the church.
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Began to notice that again,
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my first year of pastoring
and I grew up in a church
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where there were a
number of men in the church,
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professional, hardworking man,
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a father who was
president at home as well.
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And as the years to
be a transpired being,
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I say, wow, you know,
look at the deacon's ministry,
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the men's ministry,
and other ministries.
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I said, wow,
there are so many women
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and hardworking
women in the church.
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But where are the men? Yeah.
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I almost felt like God
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in the Garden of
Eden where he said,
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Adam, where are you?
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Yes! Yes, yes.
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So we began a search
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and began to put
some strategies in place
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to try to recruit and
retain men in our church now.
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That's incredible
because, you know,
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it is interesting
that at one point,
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there were a lot
more men in the church
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than there are now.
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What kinds of things do
you think have contributed
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to the absence of men in church?
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Yeah, so I think
there are number of factors,
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some of that are
proven statistically are that
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men are becoming
more involved in working
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and on the
weekends, specifically.
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On Sabbath?
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Some more on
Sabbath, and by all means,
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we have men that
are just falling away
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almost like the
prodigal as well.
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They have gone,
you know, gone astray,
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some men that
because we live now
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in the information
age as well, say, hey,
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I'll catch it via YouTube
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or live stream
and another things.
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And so right now our church,
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we're seeing a major decline
as it relates to, to men,
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especially African-American
men in the church today.
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So again, that's something
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that we need to be
able to put some strategy
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behind to bring them back.
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Yes, for sure, for sure.
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So do you think that
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the message has
been very feminized?
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You know, because in
playing to the audience
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sometimes there's distance
placed between the pastor,
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let's say, and the
men and the audience
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because they're playing more
to the females in the audience.
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Do you think that that
we have presented even...
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Presented Christ in
more of a feminine...
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I don't mean
that he, you know...
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Right.
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The way he's been presented...
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Right.
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Has not really appealed to men.
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Would you think that?
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I think so, I think
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that's a very important
part that you're bringing it out
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right there that,
especially as a pastor,
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I'm very cognizant of
the fact that, you know,
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I'm not preaching just
to women but also to men.
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Now someone who is intentional
bout trying to reach men
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as I'm crafting messages,
as I'm reading the word,
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I'm always
thinking about, you know,
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how are men
looking at this text.
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Right.
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You know,
especially when Jesus says,
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turn the other cheek
and go the extra mile.
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You know, that's something
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that men kind of say,
oh, hold, wait a minute,
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especially in our
modern day world right now.
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So as I'm crafting messages,
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I'm always trying to put
in an element of encouragement
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and element of manhood,
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and element showing that
Jesus is not just a weakling
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but He's a strong man...
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Yes!
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Who literally, you
know, will go inside,
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and not the angry side of
Jesus who will turn over tables
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and that will drive out
money changers with the whip
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and to show the
masculine side of Jesus
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that that He is somebody
who is the King of kings
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and the Lord of lords.
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Yes.
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Compassionate, but yet also
full of grace and love as well.
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That's so good.
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You know, one of my son
said to me when he was...
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Praise God, he is...
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The Lord has
turned his life around.
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Yeah.
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But he said before,
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he questioned that whole
thing of turn the other cheek
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and, you know, go the extra mile
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and that kind of thing,
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like it just
didn't seem strong to him.
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Now he has a whole
other view of who Jesus is,
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but before, it was
like, he just, it was...
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It just didn't seem
like Jesus was strong,
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like He really is.
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Yeah.
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And so what you're saying
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is that when you're
crafting your sermons,
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you keep in mind
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that you're crafting
it for men and women.
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Absolutely. Not
just for the women.
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Yeah, boys and girls. Yes.
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For everybody,
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but specifically
again for our men
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so that men can
leave a worship service,
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to leave a Sabbath service
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and say, oh, wait a minute,
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now this has encouraged
me, this has encouraged me.
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This is something
that I can identify with.
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This was a Jesus that I like.
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Yeah.
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Now so to speak than a feminized
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or a watered down kind of thing
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but know something that our men
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can really appreciate
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and know, again, intentionally
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that God, that we were
made in the image of God.
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Yes.
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That we are the
head and not the tail.
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Yes.
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Now so many times
our men in our society
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are beat up, you
know, all week long.
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That's another reason
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why they don't
come to church as well
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because of the, you know,
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so much being beat up at the job
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and just really tired as well.
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Yeah.
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So when it comes to church,
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you know, we want to be
able to instill with Him
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that again that we are
made in the image of God,
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that God has gifted
man, God has blessed man,
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that God gave,
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you know, dominion and
power in the Garden of Eden
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to men and women but man
has a definite part to play.
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Yes.
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And I think it's important,
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I mean, even with Dare to Dream,
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we've really focused
a lot on encouraging men
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because we want men to know
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that they can be
strong and spiritual,
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that it's not
antithetical to be,
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you know, strong and spiritual.
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That's right.
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You're not weak
if you're spiritual.
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That's right.
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You know, and so we've really,
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that's why we
had for guys only too
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because we wanted to make sure
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that the unique problems
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that men are confronted with,
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we wanted them to be
able to find some answers for.
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And so it's just
so important to me
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that we develop,
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even in craft sermons
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and programming
around men and women.
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Right.
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But I think that
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because there's so
many women in the church,
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we just tend to
lean toward the women
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and not the men.
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That's right.
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So you wrote this
book, "Ready, Set, GO!"
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Yeah.
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And tell us what led
you to write this book?
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Yeah.
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So part of it was,
you know, I said before,
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you know, grew up in the church,
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you know, been in
church all my life
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seeing positive role
models in the church,
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seeing men that
were committed to Christ
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and, you know, doing
it in the home as well
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and encouraged me.
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And as I began to grow, again,
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saw the diminish
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or the slow decline
of men in the church,
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had a father
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that was literally
present in my home,
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you know, all my life.
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Just passed away two years ago.
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And it was
devastating for me, literally,
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but he gave me such
an example of manhood,
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a spirituality, and
how to treat a woman.
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You know, how to handle anger,
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how to be a man of
integrity, and sincerity.
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So I mean, all those
things were birthed in me.
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So I said, "Well,
I got to put this,
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you know, to paper."
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Yes.
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So other men around the country
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and all the world can be
able to understand principles
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Bible techniques,
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you know, everything to
be able to encourage a man
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to continue to be
strong in the Lord,
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in the power of His might,
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to be able to lead his family,
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love his children
and all of that so,
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yeah.
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See...
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You just gave me
like a ton of things
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that just sink my teeth into.
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You know, one of the things
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is so important is the
role of the man in the home
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and if he's not in the home,
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the boy has nobody
to emulate but the mom.
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That's right.
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So now you have a
situation where the mindset is,
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mom is provider
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because there's no men there
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to show how do
you treat your wife.
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That's right.
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How do you
discipline your children,
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how do you show them
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God at home?
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You know, there's no man there
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and I know that
there are situations
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where, you know,
the single parent homes,
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there are a lot of
single parent households
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and the mothers are
doing the best they can.
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And we appreciate
that. Absolutely. Yes.
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But we need for the men
to step up to the plate,
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and be responsible
fathers to their children,
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and teach them a lot of times
they didn't have a role model.
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Yeah.
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We're looking at like
layers of dysfunction.
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And, but it can all change.
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And that's what...
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You know, that's what
you've written this book
00:10:04.17\00:10:05.87
for some Bible studies
00:10:05.90\00:10:07.80
to help bring people
back into focus on manhood
00:10:07.84\00:10:12.04
and what's involved with
that, and spiritual manhood.
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That's right.
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And that spills
over into the family.
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Absolutely.
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And it really, that's part
of my passion as well is that,
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that we have good, healthy,
00:10:22.22\00:10:24.49
godly families
in the States today.
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Yes.
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Especially at the end so
man can lead their family,
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you know what I'm
talking about a lot,
00:10:29.86\00:10:31.19
you know, the
father stays in the home,
00:10:31.23\00:10:32.79
but the men that are there,
00:10:32.83\00:10:34.26
you know, if we
can really harness
00:10:34.30\00:10:36.10
on being able
to love our spouse.
00:10:36.13\00:10:38.47
Yes.
00:10:38.50\00:10:39.83
You know, to model what
it means to be a good father.
00:10:39.87\00:10:42.64
And I have two boys myself,
00:10:42.67\00:10:44.27
you know, and these
boys are watching me,
00:10:44.31\00:10:46.24
you know, every step of the
way with everything that I do.
00:10:46.27\00:10:48.11
Yes.
00:10:48.14\00:10:49.48
So I want to make sure
00:10:49.51\00:10:50.85
that I'm leaving a
legacy for my two boys.
00:10:50.88\00:10:52.21
So as they grew up,
they will understand,
00:10:52.25\00:10:53.68
you know, what it
means to be a man.
00:10:53.72\00:10:55.05
Yes.
00:10:55.08\00:10:56.42
Again what it
means to be a husband,
00:10:56.45\00:10:57.79
what it means to be someone
that works hard and is diligent
00:10:57.82\00:10:59.55
and has a positive
attitude and all of that.
00:10:59.59\00:11:01.69
Yes.
00:11:01.72\00:11:03.06
So, you know,
that gets me excited
00:11:03.09\00:11:04.43
to be able to model
that to my children,
00:11:04.46\00:11:05.99
model that in the church,
model that in the community
00:11:06.03\00:11:08.36
and be able to put pen to paper,
00:11:08.40\00:11:10.47
so that other men
can understand as well
00:11:10.50\00:11:12.10
because the Bible says
so much about integrity.
00:11:12.13\00:11:14.97
I mean, there's
story after story...
00:11:15.00\00:11:16.34
Yes.
00:11:16.37\00:11:17.71
Those of Daniel, Esther,
00:11:17.74\00:11:19.07
I mean all these
stories are critical for us
00:11:19.11\00:11:21.44
that, you know, in the days
that we're living right now.
00:11:21.48\00:11:23.35
So I wanted to write the
book for us as a resource,
00:11:23.38\00:11:25.95
as a tool,
especially for men's ministry.
00:11:25.98\00:11:28.35
So one of the
things I saw as well
00:11:28.38\00:11:29.72
was that men
rarely get together,
00:11:29.75\00:11:32.92
you know, for
spiritual conversation.
00:11:32.95\00:11:35.16
I mean, we can get
together for basketball,
00:11:35.19\00:11:37.36
for football, for sports,
you know, the barber shop,
00:11:37.39\00:11:40.06
we have great conversations
about so many different topics.
00:11:40.10\00:11:43.33
But when it
comes to spirituality,
00:11:43.37\00:11:45.13
into God, into Jesus,
00:11:45.17\00:11:46.50
we know we really
never have that conversation.
00:11:46.53\00:11:49.74
Why do you think that is?
00:11:49.77\00:11:51.11
You know, I think
there is something
00:11:51.14\00:11:52.47
is that we're just,
we're afraid to open up
00:11:52.51\00:11:54.04
and to share,
00:11:54.08\00:11:55.41
you know, deep down
the recesses of our hearts
00:11:55.44\00:11:57.78
some of the things
that we struggle with
00:11:57.81\00:11:59.28
and things that we
really think about.
00:11:59.31\00:12:01.15
You know, so I
think that men struggle
00:12:01.18\00:12:02.98
to have that real
transparent conversation.
00:12:03.02\00:12:06.15
Yes.
00:12:06.19\00:12:07.76
But when there is
a safe environment
00:12:07.79\00:12:10.56
where there is camaraderie,
00:12:10.59\00:12:12.26
where there is a
mutual understanding
00:12:12.29\00:12:14.56
between other men,
00:12:14.60\00:12:15.93
you know, just
like in a barber shop,
00:12:15.96\00:12:17.53
I mean, there's no holds barred,
00:12:17.57\00:12:19.93
I mean,
00:12:19.97\00:12:21.30
there is
conversation after conversation
00:12:21.34\00:12:22.67
that you can go forth.
00:12:22.70\00:12:24.04
And that's what
we want to create.
00:12:24.07\00:12:25.41
So that's one of the
ways that we wrote the book
00:12:25.44\00:12:26.78
was to start
off with discussion,
00:12:26.81\00:12:28.44
you know, to have a real,
00:12:28.48\00:12:29.84
you know, opening comment
and then jump right into it.
00:12:29.88\00:12:33.01
You know, what do
you think about anger?
00:12:33.05\00:12:35.38
You know, how are
you dealing with that
00:12:35.42\00:12:38.09
where so much is
going on in our world today
00:12:38.12\00:12:40.96
for men of color
and just men and period.
00:12:40.99\00:12:42.66
Yes. How are you
dealing with that?
00:12:42.69\00:12:44.13
How are you dealing
with your, with purity?
00:12:44.16\00:12:46.46
Yes.
00:12:46.49\00:12:47.90
And those are the things,
00:12:47.93\00:12:49.26
you know, so many
things we wrote about greatness
00:12:49.30\00:12:51.17
and all that as well
that men want to be great.
00:12:51.20\00:12:53.30
Yes. And inspire for greatness.
00:12:53.34\00:12:55.17
Yes, how do you deal
with the basic things
00:12:55.20\00:12:59.27
that you run into
in day-to-day life?
00:12:59.31\00:13:01.64
How do you deal with
them as a Christian man,
00:13:01.68\00:13:04.75
not just as a man,
but as a Christian man?
00:13:04.78\00:13:07.22
Because, again,
00:13:07.25\00:13:09.92
if you've never had
the example you don't know.
00:13:09.95\00:13:13.05
Right. You just don't know.
00:13:13.09\00:13:14.52
So this book is great
because it gives strategies
00:13:14.56\00:13:20.03
and it's a Bible study,
00:13:20.06\00:13:21.43
like you have the first chapter.
00:13:21.46\00:13:22.80
Let's kind of go through
00:13:22.83\00:13:24.17
some of the contents here
becoming a spiritual brother.
00:13:24.20\00:13:27.24
What is that about?
00:13:27.27\00:13:28.60
Yeah, that God
created us in His image,
00:13:28.64\00:13:30.94
to be in His
likeness, to be spiritual,
00:13:30.97\00:13:33.44
to be connected to God.
00:13:33.48\00:13:35.34
So from the very beginning,
00:13:35.38\00:13:36.75
I want men to understand
that we're here on purpose,
00:13:36.78\00:13:39.31
that there is a
purpose for your life
00:13:39.35\00:13:41.22
that God wants to
use you for His glory,
00:13:41.25\00:13:43.65
that we were
created to worship God
00:13:43.69\00:13:45.15
and to live for God,
00:13:45.19\00:13:46.52
and that God wants to live in us
00:13:46.55\00:13:48.62
that His Spirit
wants to dwell in us,
00:13:48.66\00:13:50.23
and that the greatest thing
00:13:50.26\00:13:51.59
we can ever do
as men is literally
00:13:51.63\00:13:53.36
to allow the Spirit of God
to lead us and to direct us.
00:13:53.40\00:13:57.27
I found out that, Dr. Lewis,
00:13:57.30\00:13:58.67
that God opens doors
that no man can shut,
00:13:58.70\00:14:01.07
and He's gonna shut
doors that no man can open.
00:14:01.10\00:14:02.90
Yes.
00:14:02.94\00:14:04.27
And men need to understand
00:14:04.31\00:14:05.64
that God has so
much purpose for us
00:14:05.67\00:14:08.04
and that God can
use us like no other.
00:14:08.08\00:14:10.55
Yes.
00:14:10.58\00:14:11.91
So that's part of
becoming a spiritual brother.
00:14:11.95\00:14:14.75
Did you ever have
a period in your life
00:14:14.78\00:14:17.39
where you
weren't as spiritual as,
00:14:17.42\00:14:20.29
let's say, you are now
00:14:20.32\00:14:21.69
and the Lord had to
kind of bring you back?
00:14:21.72\00:14:24.39
Well, so I grew up in
the church all my life,
00:14:24.43\00:14:26.29
but I tell people all the time
00:14:26.33\00:14:27.66
that even though
I was in the church,
00:14:27.70\00:14:29.03
the church was not always in me.
00:14:29.06\00:14:30.50
I never went astray,
00:14:30.53\00:14:31.87
never did the
drinking or smoking,
00:14:31.90\00:14:34.04
you know, living out
like the prodigal so to speak.
00:14:34.07\00:14:35.97
But I was in the house,
00:14:36.00\00:14:37.41
but really did not
know Christ in the house.
00:14:37.44\00:14:39.31
Yes, lost in the house, right?
Absolutely, no doubt about it.
00:14:39.34\00:14:41.74
So I mean,
00:14:41.78\00:14:43.11
going through the
emotions, pathfinders,
00:14:43.14\00:14:44.58
you know, avenues,
you've all those organizations
00:14:44.61\00:14:46.82
that our church does
00:14:46.85\00:14:48.18
but it really didn't have
00:14:48.22\00:14:49.55
any kind of
substance inside of me,
00:14:49.58\00:14:51.19
you know, just going
through it every single time.
00:14:51.22\00:14:53.05
So it was living my, you know,
in high school being of cars
00:14:53.09\00:14:56.83
where I began to
really understand
00:14:56.86\00:14:58.46
who I am as a man
00:14:58.49\00:14:59.96
and who I am as
created image of God.
00:15:00.00\00:15:03.37
And I mean, that really
just changed my entire mindset.
00:15:03.40\00:15:06.87
Was there a pivotal
event that brought you to him
00:15:06.90\00:15:10.47
or was it just
you found yourself
00:15:10.51\00:15:12.84
just yielding to Him?
00:15:12.87\00:15:16.44
Yeah, so we had a week of prayer
00:15:16.48\00:15:18.61
at my home church in
Benton Harbor, Michigan
00:15:18.65\00:15:20.72
and it was a revival speaker.
00:15:20.75\00:15:23.55
And he literally
came and talked about,
00:15:23.59\00:15:25.59
you know, God wants a
personal relationship with you.
00:15:25.62\00:15:28.09
And you know,
I've been in church,
00:15:28.12\00:15:30.26
I've heard that a little bit,
00:15:30.29\00:15:31.63
but for the
first time in my life,
00:15:31.66\00:15:32.99
I mean,
literally it just clicked.
00:15:33.03\00:15:34.36
Wow!
00:15:34.40\00:15:35.73
It was like, man, God
wants to worship with me?
00:15:35.76\00:15:37.10
Yes, yes.
00:15:37.13\00:15:38.47
With me? Really?
00:15:38.50\00:15:39.83
Somebody from you
know where I'm from,
00:15:39.87\00:15:41.20
like whoa from the
hood, God wants to, you know,
00:15:41.24\00:15:43.34
and it has really
began, a light bulb went off.
00:15:43.37\00:15:45.51
So I tried it, right.
00:15:45.54\00:15:46.88
So I start praying every day.
00:15:46.91\00:15:48.24
So I'm reading the
Word of God every day.
00:15:48.28\00:15:50.05
And it was like, man,
and the more I began to read,
00:15:50.08\00:15:52.85
the more my
mind began to expand,
00:15:52.88\00:15:55.18
the more, you know,
I had a desire for God.
00:15:55.22\00:15:57.62
I started praying, you
know, for real for real prayers.
00:15:57.65\00:15:59.79
Yes.
00:15:59.82\00:16:01.16
And God began to
hear those prayers.
00:16:01.19\00:16:02.52
So it's like, wow, you know,
God is no respecter of persons,
00:16:02.56\00:16:05.79
if God can hear somebody
00:16:05.83\00:16:07.16
from the hoods of
Benton Harbor, Michigan,
00:16:07.20\00:16:09.13
then surely there is a God.
00:16:09.16\00:16:11.93
I mean, and from there,
00:16:11.97\00:16:13.40
you know, I just had
a zeal and the passion
00:16:13.44\00:16:15.94
to serve God and
to witness for Him
00:16:15.97\00:16:18.41
and to get the mission out.
00:16:18.44\00:16:19.91
Yes.
00:16:19.94\00:16:21.28
You know, so that's part of...
00:16:21.31\00:16:22.64
That's beautiful
becoming a spiritual brother.
00:16:22.68\00:16:25.21
Brothers want to be great. Yeah.
00:16:25.25\00:16:27.62
So if you look at, you
know, again men, athletics,
00:16:27.65\00:16:31.72
you know, we will go out
00:16:31.75\00:16:33.09
and we will buy
the jewel by a jersey,
00:16:33.12\00:16:34.56
we'll buy a Steph Curry
jersey, you know, we will buy,
00:16:34.59\00:16:36.86
you know, LeBron
jersey and we'll wear it, why?
00:16:36.89\00:16:39.56
Because literally
00:16:39.59\00:16:40.93
we are
identifying with greatness.
00:16:40.96\00:16:42.46
We're identifying with it.
00:16:42.50\00:16:43.83
You know, all these athletes,
00:16:43.87\00:16:45.33
professional
athletes and others,
00:16:45.37\00:16:46.74
you know, men see
themselves in other men.
00:16:46.77\00:16:50.64
And I'm going back to the
fact that when you recognize,
00:16:50.67\00:16:53.34
like Revelation 1:5
that God has washed us.
00:16:53.38\00:16:57.05
Yes. God has cleansed us.
00:16:57.08\00:16:58.91
He has called us
kings in His image.
00:16:58.95\00:17:02.28
You know, true
greatness, Jesus said is,
00:17:02.32\00:17:04.32
is serving in and
being humble as well,
00:17:04.35\00:17:06.96
all of that, men are
ordained to be great,
00:17:06.99\00:17:11.09
to be great.
00:17:11.13\00:17:12.46
And, you know, he's ordained,
00:17:12.49\00:17:13.83
you know, loosely
but God has called us.
00:17:13.86\00:17:15.20
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:15.23\00:17:16.56
Sure. To for greatness.
00:17:16.60\00:17:17.93
You know, God has not
called as just to be mediocre,
00:17:17.97\00:17:19.30
you know, I believe that
God has called every single,
00:17:19.33\00:17:21.60
last one of us
for a specific task
00:17:21.64\00:17:24.11
to promote and
push the kingdom agenda
00:17:24.14\00:17:26.84
and to be
successful in this world
00:17:26.88\00:17:28.88
and to help
obviously the world to come.
00:17:28.91\00:17:30.45
So brothers want
to be great, you know.
00:17:30.48\00:17:32.28
Yes. That is so true.
00:17:32.31\00:17:34.28
That whole desire to identify
00:17:34.32\00:17:37.29
with what is
perceived as greatness.
00:17:37.32\00:17:39.52
Right.
00:17:39.55\00:17:40.89
And God's plan, we
talk on this program,
00:17:40.92\00:17:42.46
we always talk about
God's plan for everyone's life.
00:17:42.49\00:17:45.69
There is a plan for everyone.
00:17:45.73\00:17:47.40
That's right.
00:17:47.43\00:17:48.76
There's no one is
here on this planet
00:17:48.80\00:17:50.50
without a plan
for his or her life.
00:17:50.53\00:17:53.10
So what you're
saying is God's plan
00:17:53.13\00:17:56.20
is for everybody
to have some greatness
00:17:56.24\00:17:59.57
because we are connected to Him.
00:17:59.61\00:18:01.01
That's right.
00:18:01.04\00:18:02.38
And when we're connected to Him,
00:18:02.41\00:18:03.75
and you can't help it, right?
00:18:03.78\00:18:05.11
There it is. You can't help it.
00:18:05.15\00:18:06.48
Okay, what about
proud of who I am?
00:18:06.51\00:18:08.52
Yeah.
00:18:08.55\00:18:09.88
So specifically as
African-American men,
00:18:09.92\00:18:12.72
we need to understand
that we have a rich heritage
00:18:12.75\00:18:15.62
that, you know, we didn't
come from monkeys or from apes,
00:18:15.66\00:18:18.49
we don't believe in
evolution whatsoever.
00:18:18.53\00:18:20.16
But we look at even in
Africa and other places as well,
00:18:20.20\00:18:23.93
that, you know, we were doctors
00:18:23.97\00:18:25.43
and we were
physicians, you know,
00:18:25.47\00:18:26.80
pyramids were
built by men of color.
00:18:26.84\00:18:28.70
Yes.
00:18:28.74\00:18:30.07
And we're gonna
be proud of the fact
00:18:30.11\00:18:31.44
that that we can identify,
00:18:31.47\00:18:32.81
we can see
ourselves in the Word of God.
00:18:32.84\00:18:34.81
You know, the Bible
talks so much about Egypt
00:18:34.84\00:18:36.88
and Ethiopia and
other parts of the world.
00:18:36.91\00:18:39.41
You know, that when we
find our true identity.
00:18:39.45\00:18:42.32
My father used to always,
you know, lay it on me that,
00:18:42.35\00:18:44.49
you know, in Christ,
00:18:44.52\00:18:46.35
that's where we
find our identity.
00:18:46.39\00:18:47.72
But do not forget as
well where you've come from
00:18:47.76\00:18:49.22
That's right.
00:18:49.26\00:18:50.59
Don't forget about the struggle
00:18:50.63\00:18:51.96
and our
ancestors and the history,
00:18:51.99\00:18:53.36
the rich history
that we have as men.
00:18:53.40\00:18:56.23
And I think that's so
important too, Dr. Lee,
00:18:56.26\00:18:58.53
because I think sometimes
there's a disconnect between,
00:18:58.57\00:19:03.44
you know, knowing
about where you come from,
00:19:03.47\00:19:06.24
knowing about
where medicine started,
00:19:06.27\00:19:09.44
you know, in
Egypt and mathematics
00:19:09.48\00:19:11.38
and all of that,
00:19:11.41\00:19:12.75
knowing that once you know that,
00:19:12.78\00:19:15.05
then you say, wow.
00:19:15.08\00:19:16.45
You know, I didn't know
00:19:16.48\00:19:17.82
that we contributed
all of that to the world.
00:19:17.85\00:19:20.92
That's right. Yeah. But we did.
00:19:20.96\00:19:23.09
And so I think it's important
to know where you come from,
00:19:23.12\00:19:27.10
to know your history
00:19:27.13\00:19:28.66
so that you can
hold your head up
00:19:28.70\00:19:30.07
and not feel like,
00:19:30.10\00:19:31.43
oh, you know, all we've
done is sports and music.
00:19:31.47\00:19:34.24
Right. No.
00:19:34.27\00:19:35.60
Right. No, no, no.
00:19:35.64\00:19:36.97
And I think once there's that
understanding of your history,
00:19:37.01\00:19:41.58
then you can feel comfortable,
00:19:41.61\00:19:44.45
you know, because you
know that you come from people
00:19:44.48\00:19:48.15
who have contributed.
00:19:48.18\00:19:49.52
That's right.
00:19:49.55\00:19:50.89
And plus the
inventions and all that,
00:19:50.92\00:19:52.25
all I think it's
just really important
00:19:52.29\00:19:54.72
to know your history.
00:19:54.76\00:19:56.42
So this is good because
00:19:56.46\00:19:58.33
what we want to
do is to make sure
00:19:58.36\00:20:00.33
that you know
00:20:00.36\00:20:01.80
that there's
information in this book
00:20:01.83\00:20:04.20
that can really be of help.
00:20:04.23\00:20:06.30
If you're a female
00:20:06.33\00:20:07.70
and you have
husband, brother, uncle,
00:20:07.74\00:20:10.91
men's ministry
friend, give them this book.
00:20:10.94\00:20:14.54
Yeah. This book
will really help.
00:20:14.58\00:20:17.35
Okay.
00:20:17.38\00:20:18.71
What about the strongholds
00:20:18.75\00:20:20.58
and imprisoned
African-American men?
00:20:20.62\00:20:22.55
Yeah.
00:20:22.58\00:20:24.35
So if you look
down the line, you may,
00:20:24.39\00:20:26.25
you see so many different
generations of strongholds.
00:20:26.29\00:20:30.03
And I think the Bible
speaks about this as well that,
00:20:30.06\00:20:31.86
you know, the strongholds
00:20:31.89\00:20:33.23
go from the third
and fourth generation,
00:20:33.26\00:20:35.23
but the Bible was
clear, number one,
00:20:35.26\00:20:36.83
that the weapons of our
warfare are not carnal...
00:20:36.87\00:20:39.43
That's right. Mighty God.
00:20:39.47\00:20:40.80
That they might
00:20:40.84\00:20:42.17
to the pulling
down the strongholds.
00:20:42.20\00:20:43.54
Yeah.
00:20:43.57\00:20:44.91
So again, fatherlessness,
00:20:44.94\00:20:46.27
I believe is a
stronghold that so many times
00:20:46.31\00:20:47.64
that pattern of not
having a father in the home
00:20:47.68\00:20:49.21
and it gets
passed on to another son
00:20:49.24\00:20:51.41
and that son does
the same exact thing,
00:20:51.45\00:20:53.21
does not handle
business inside the whole
00:20:53.25\00:20:55.68
and that's one
of the strongholds
00:20:55.72\00:20:57.05
that need to be broken.
00:20:57.09\00:20:58.42
It can be
alcoholism, or drug addiction,
00:20:58.45\00:21:00.79
or being promiscuous as well.
00:21:00.82\00:21:02.99
These are all strongholds
00:21:03.02\00:21:04.93
that I think that
brothers deal with,
00:21:04.96\00:21:06.90
especially in our urban cities
and our urban communities.
00:21:06.93\00:21:10.00
This is, I mean, I walk up
00:21:10.03\00:21:11.43
and down the streets of Chicago,
00:21:11.47\00:21:12.80
you know, where I minister now
and look into the eyes of men.
00:21:12.83\00:21:16.30
And there seems to be
this sense of hopelessness
00:21:16.34\00:21:18.67
and this sense of bondage
00:21:18.71\00:21:20.48
that our men
are struggling with.
00:21:20.51\00:21:22.18
So dealing with strongholds
is something that I believe
00:21:22.21\00:21:24.81
that God calls us
to as Christian men.
00:21:24.85\00:21:27.68
As you know, Paul talked about,
there's a struggle in my flesh.
00:21:27.72\00:21:30.42
Yeah.
00:21:30.45\00:21:31.79
Things that I
don't want to do it
00:21:31.82\00:21:33.15
but I find myself doing.
00:21:33.19\00:21:34.52
Yes, yes.
00:21:34.56\00:21:35.89
But again, God
has given us power
00:21:35.92\00:21:37.26
to be able to break throws
00:21:37.29\00:21:38.63
in the name of Jesus Christ.
00:21:38.66\00:21:40.00
Yes.
00:21:40.03\00:21:41.36
If God be for us can
nobody else be against us.
00:21:41.40\00:21:42.73
That's right. That's right.
00:21:42.76\00:21:44.10
And we do that our
strongholds, there are, I mean,
00:21:44.13\00:21:45.47
drug addiction, or
alcohol, or in fatherlessness,
00:21:45.50\00:21:48.60
and all of these
things are strongholds.
00:21:48.64\00:21:51.04
But Jesus came to
set the captives free.
00:21:51.07\00:21:54.08
Absolutely.
00:21:54.11\00:21:55.44
So if we have Him,
we can be set free.
00:21:55.48\00:21:57.55
That's right.
00:21:57.58\00:21:58.91
But if we don't,
we are in bondage.
00:21:58.95\00:22:00.28
Yeah.
00:22:00.32\00:22:01.65
We are in bondage
to these strongholds.
00:22:01.68\00:22:03.02
And I just
think, there is so many,
00:22:03.05\00:22:05.49
so many people
that are in bondage.
00:22:05.52\00:22:07.99
And the other thing
00:22:08.02\00:22:09.59
that's really I think
important to our communities
00:22:09.62\00:22:12.59
is the mass incarceration.
00:22:12.63\00:22:15.06
That's one of the reasons
00:22:15.10\00:22:16.43
why there are so few
brothers in the church too.
00:22:16.46\00:22:18.37
That's right
00:22:18.40\00:22:19.73
Because a lot of them
00:22:19.77\00:22:21.10
are in jail for petty
offenses that aren't even,
00:22:21.14\00:22:25.04
that would not have been...
00:22:25.07\00:22:28.54
They wouldn't have
had those convictions
00:22:28.58\00:22:30.85
under other circumstances.
00:22:30.88\00:22:32.35
So it's, you know,
00:22:32.38\00:22:34.12
we're not saying
everybody in jail is innocent,
00:22:34.15\00:22:36.38
that's not my point.
00:22:36.42\00:22:38.05
But the whole idea of
this mass incarceration,
00:22:38.09\00:22:40.82
you know, it has taken
so many of our young men
00:22:40.86\00:22:45.29
off the streets
and given them a record
00:22:45.33\00:22:47.66
and now when they come
out, they're just stuck.
00:22:47.70\00:22:51.03
Yep, that's right.
00:22:51.07\00:22:52.40
Because they're locked out. Yep.
00:22:52.43\00:22:54.37
And so...
00:22:54.40\00:22:55.74
And then the pattern
continues. That's right.
00:22:55.77\00:22:57.11
And they go back
to knowing, you know,
00:22:57.14\00:22:58.47
how did I get that
kind of get some more money?
00:22:58.51\00:22:59.84
Right. How can I survive?
00:22:59.87\00:23:01.21
Right? Yes. And
it is about survival.
00:23:01.24\00:23:03.45
Because again, men
want to work, I believe,
00:23:03.48\00:23:05.81
men want to achieve.
00:23:05.85\00:23:07.18
Yes.
00:23:07.22\00:23:08.55
But when you find
yourself trapped in a system...
00:23:08.58\00:23:09.92
That's right.
Yes. That's oppressive.
00:23:09.95\00:23:11.82
You know, that's why,
that's why the Word of God
00:23:11.85\00:23:14.46
and Jesus is so
important for us,
00:23:14.49\00:23:16.83
especially as men of color
00:23:16.86\00:23:19.03
for us to understand
that there is a way out.
00:23:19.06\00:23:21.30
Yes.
00:23:21.33\00:23:22.66
That when you connect with God,
00:23:22.70\00:23:24.03
God does bring you higher. Yes.
00:23:24.07\00:23:26.20
Let's talk
about these strategies
00:23:26.23\00:23:27.60
to get out from under,
00:23:27.64\00:23:29.87
you know, when you're stuck,
00:23:29.90\00:23:31.81
when you're
caught up in the system,
00:23:31.84\00:23:33.61
when you have these strongholds,
00:23:33.64\00:23:35.38
how do you get out
00:23:35.41\00:23:36.75
and how do we get
men back into church?
00:23:36.78\00:23:40.08
So I think number one, again,
00:23:40.12\00:23:41.45
is really to
connect men to Christ.
00:23:41.48\00:23:44.29
You know, you said it before,
00:23:44.32\00:23:45.65
you know, who the Son
sets free is free indeed.
00:23:45.69\00:23:47.46
Now we need to be intentional.
00:23:47.49\00:23:48.86
I think we were intentional
with so many other ministries
00:23:48.89\00:23:51.19
when it comes to
specifically geared toward men,
00:23:51.23\00:23:54.36
you know, we
can't take it by chance.
00:23:54.40\00:23:56.16
So we need to develop programs
literally in our churches
00:23:56.20\00:23:59.17
that are geared
toward young men,
00:23:59.20\00:24:01.87
middle-aged men and senior men,
00:24:01.90\00:24:04.04
you know, we can
have the senior men
00:24:04.07\00:24:05.87
teaching the younger man.
00:24:05.91\00:24:07.24
Yes.
00:24:07.28\00:24:08.61
We can have a younger man,
00:24:08.64\00:24:09.98
you know, doing so much,
00:24:10.01\00:24:11.35
you know, in our churches
00:24:11.38\00:24:12.71
that now we just, kind of,
00:24:12.75\00:24:14.08
you know, push
them back and say,
00:24:14.12\00:24:15.45
you know, wait
your turn, so to speak.
00:24:15.48\00:24:16.82
Yeah.
00:24:16.85\00:24:18.19
There's so much that
can be done right now.
00:24:18.22\00:24:20.52
But number one,
connecting men to Christ,
00:24:20.56\00:24:22.52
letting them see again,
00:24:22.56\00:24:23.89
that who they are
in Christ, that image,
00:24:23.93\00:24:25.89
you know, pull the
whole persona of who God is
00:24:25.93\00:24:29.10
and seeing
ourselves in Him as well.
00:24:29.13\00:24:31.40
To speak positively
up to our men as well,
00:24:31.43\00:24:33.74
to our boys,
00:24:33.77\00:24:35.10
I think it starts
really with our boys,
00:24:35.14\00:24:37.07
growing them up
and maturing them
00:24:37.11\00:24:39.41
and even teaching
our boys how to dress.
00:24:39.44\00:24:41.28
Yes.
00:24:41.31\00:24:42.64
You know, that's
important as well.
00:24:42.68\00:24:44.01
These are strategies, you know,
00:24:44.05\00:24:45.51
I've done things in
men's ministry as well
00:24:45.55\00:24:47.65
in our local church
where I've taught boys
00:24:47.68\00:24:49.72
how to, you know,
how to tie bow ties,
00:24:49.75\00:24:51.42
you know, how to tie a tie,
00:24:51.45\00:24:52.85
you know, how to
look professional.
00:24:52.89\00:24:54.29
Yes.
00:24:54.32\00:24:55.66
These are all strategies
00:24:55.69\00:24:57.03
that really are life strategies.
00:24:57.06\00:24:58.89
Yes.
00:24:58.93\00:25:00.26
There is a moment, you
know, a man leaves his house,
00:25:00.30\00:25:02.33
he's going to be judged,
00:25:02.36\00:25:03.70
judged in the
world, judged at school,
00:25:03.73\00:25:06.50
judged at church,
no matter where you go,
00:25:06.53\00:25:08.07
there's people that's
gonna be looking at a man.
00:25:08.10\00:25:10.57
Right.
00:25:10.61\00:25:11.94
So we want to be able
to connect them to Christ
00:25:11.97\00:25:13.78
to be able to
prepare them for this world.
00:25:13.81\00:25:16.78
And, you know, how to
live, and how to be respectful,
00:25:16.81\00:25:18.98
how to articulate, you
know, how to work hard,
00:25:19.01\00:25:21.65
how to keep a job,
00:25:21.68\00:25:23.02
you know, how to do a resume,
00:25:23.05\00:25:24.95
I mean, the list goes on and on,
00:25:24.99\00:25:26.65
but there is so
much that we need to do,
00:25:26.69\00:25:28.86
especially being intentional
00:25:28.89\00:25:30.93
as it relates to
ministering to men.
00:25:30.96\00:25:33.56
Even, you know,
00:25:33.60\00:25:34.93
I've decided now I'm bringing...
00:25:34.96\00:25:36.30
Our churches can easily bring
in the police into the church.
00:25:36.33\00:25:39.77
You know, part of, you know,
00:25:39.80\00:25:41.14
my father taught me in
my first driving lesson,
00:25:41.17\00:25:44.91
you know, he
taught me turn left,
00:25:44.94\00:25:46.27
turn right, you know all that.
00:25:46.31\00:25:48.21
But then he got real serious.
00:25:48.24\00:25:49.61
He looked me in the eyes,
00:25:49.64\00:25:50.98
my hands on the
steer wheel and he says,
00:25:51.01\00:25:52.35
listen, when you get
stopped by the police,
00:25:52.38\00:25:55.55
here's what you do,
00:25:55.58\00:25:57.25
and I didn't
think about it then,
00:25:57.29\00:25:59.05
it wasn't years
later that I remember
00:25:59.09\00:26:00.86
he said when you get stopped,
it wasn't if you get stopped.
00:26:00.89\00:26:04.36
It was when you get stopped,
00:26:04.39\00:26:05.86
keep both hands
on a steering wheel,
00:26:05.89\00:26:07.66
be very
respectful, yes ma'am, yes sir.
00:26:07.70\00:26:10.07
You know, no
sudden movements. Right.
00:26:10.10\00:26:12.03
I mean with all these things...
00:26:12.07\00:26:13.40
He had the talk. He
had the talk with me.
00:26:13.44\00:26:15.54
And I appreciate that now,
00:26:15.57\00:26:17.11
especially in the climate
that we live in right now.
00:26:17.14\00:26:19.87
And, but these are strategies
00:26:19.91\00:26:21.78
that so many of
our young people,
00:26:21.81\00:26:24.18
you know, in the
streets of our urban community
00:26:24.21\00:26:27.08
just don't
possess, have no idea.
00:26:27.12\00:26:29.98
So the moment somebody,
you know, gets loud with them,
00:26:30.02\00:26:32.75
they get loud back.
00:26:32.79\00:26:34.12
Right.
00:26:34.16\00:26:35.49
You know, so much
insights from just,
00:26:35.52\00:26:37.59
you know, maybe
sometimes a small thing.
00:26:37.63\00:26:39.29
That's right.
00:26:39.33\00:26:40.66
So we need strategies
00:26:40.70\00:26:42.03
to teach our
young boys and our men,
00:26:42.06\00:26:44.30
you know, how to be
respectful to police,
00:26:44.33\00:26:46.37
how to address authority,
00:26:46.40\00:26:48.30
all those things I
think are extremely critical.
00:26:48.34\00:26:51.01
Extremely critical, life saving.
00:26:51.04\00:26:53.94
Yeah. Really life saving.
00:26:53.98\00:26:56.64
So in this last 30 seconds,
00:26:56.68\00:26:59.85
what would you have to share
with the men in the church...
00:26:59.88\00:27:04.32
Yeah. Sure. That
aren't coming to church?
00:27:04.35\00:27:07.32
I want to share that
our doors are wide open
00:27:07.36\00:27:09.79
that God literally
is standing at the door,
00:27:09.82\00:27:12.59
and He's knocking,
00:27:12.63\00:27:14.03
that there's still room for you,
00:27:14.06\00:27:15.53
that we need
you, we need you back,
00:27:15.56\00:27:17.53
we need our men
back in the church,
00:27:17.57\00:27:20.30
knowledge of work,
but to model manhood,
00:27:20.34\00:27:23.00
to model what it
means to be a Christian man
00:27:23.04\00:27:25.81
in these last
days, that loves God,
00:27:25.84\00:27:28.21
will love their
family if they has a family,
00:27:28.24\00:27:29.74
if they have chosen that
would love their children.
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.75
We want them back
because God needs them,
00:27:31.78\00:27:34.28
God wants them,
and God loves them.
00:27:34.32\00:27:36.08
Oh, that's beautiful.
00:27:36.12\00:27:37.45
Thank you so much,
Pastor Lee. Thank you so much.
00:27:37.49\00:27:40.12
What a blessing.
00:27:40.16\00:27:42.22
What you're doing is
really, really necessary.
00:27:42.26\00:27:46.03
I can't believe
that we've reached
00:27:46.06\00:27:47.43
the end of another program.
00:27:47.46\00:27:49.03
You know, what Dr. Lee
was saying was so important.
00:27:49.06\00:27:53.57
You have to be intentional.
00:27:53.60\00:27:55.94
So go to your church,
check out the men's ministries
00:27:55.97\00:27:59.34
and encourage
others to be there.
00:27:59.37\00:28:01.21
Thanks for tuning in.
00:28:01.24\00:28:02.58
Join us next time
00:28:02.61\00:28:03.95
'cause it wouldn't
be the same without you.
00:28:03.98\00:28:05.31