Where is Christ in the Qur'an?
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How can we witness to our
Muslim brothers and sisters?
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Stay tuned to meet some men
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whose knowledge of Islam
in the Bible will astound you.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guests today are Jason Hovey,
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Director of
White Garments Ministry
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and Stephen Dickey, Author of
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"Islam: God's
Forgotten Blessing"
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and the Maroon Resource book
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and the Founder of
Strawberry Meadow Association.
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Welcome to Urban Report
Jason and Stephen, yeah...
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Thank you... good to be here.
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I met you guys at ASI
and I just have this...
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this burden that...
I feel like the Lord...
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first of all... the Lord
would absolutely have us get
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the gospel to everyone and it
seems like we don't really know
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or talk about that much...
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how to reach our
Muslim brothers and sisters
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and with all the stuff
going on with ISIS and all that,
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there's just such a negative
viewpoint of Muslims as a whole.
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So, I wanted to
bring you in to talk about
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how we can reach our
Muslim brothers and sisters
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with the love of Jesus Christ
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but before we get into all that,
let our Viewers know who you are
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so, let's start with you Jason,
tell us a bit about yourself
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and how you got
into this ministry.
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Well, my name is Jason and I...
I live in the New York City area
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just outside of New York
City, about 45 minutes...
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Yvonne: What's
that accent though,
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that's not a New York accent.
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I'm originally from Minnesota...
originally from Minnesota,
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and years ago I
got in this work...
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Steve actually gave a
presentation at a local church
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and that changed
my whole perspective
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of the Muslim people.
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Yvonne: How so?
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Well, he had shared
Revelation chapter 9
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where the Muslim
people were actually used
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to protect the true Christians
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and when I had
heard that, I thought,
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"Now I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
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with the understanding
of coming to learn... "
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I'm like... we
should have an opportunity
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to give their
children and their people,
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the opportunity to what
we know now... as a people.
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So, that's kind of what...
what had opened my eyes there.
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And so, once you
started on this path,
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like, how did you...
because you went from...
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just kind of
nominally knowing about it
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to now being an
"expert" about it,
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what was your journey
into the passion for it?
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Well, when Steve had
shared that first sermon on it,
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I had prayed to God that if
you would be willing to use me
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in any way with this
work, I would be willing...
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not even knowing
that things would open up,
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within a month and a half, I
think, of hearing that sermon,
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I was out doing door-to-door
work with a young couple
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and the JWs had went before
us were giving literature also,
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we decided to
go to another area,
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went to another area,
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came to a large
facility of... of a complex,
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and we decided to go inside
and I rapped on the first door,
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no one answered,
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then all of a sudden the doors
creaked and opened behind us,
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and here this darker
complected man walked in,
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he said, "Can I help you?"
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I said, "Well,
we're here to visit
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with the owner
of this apartment. "
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He says, "I'm the
owner" then he went on to say,
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he said, "I'm
glad you came back. "
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I said, "What do you mean?"
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He said, "Well, you were
here last week and told me
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that you'd come back next week
with some literature for me. "
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I don't remember this...
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I had never been to this
apartment complex in my life,
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had no idea what
this man was saying
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and it struck me... I looked
at the couple that was with me
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and my thought was... either
God gave this guy a vision
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or an angel may
have appeared as me,
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well... long story
short, he was a Muslim man
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but the story gets
even... even juicier.
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Yvonne: Come on... come on...
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Back when... back in Minnesota,
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back in... before I
gave my heart to Jesus,
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I was a heavy
drinker and... and did drugs
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and one night... we're
in the middle of Minnesota
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out in the countryside
of about 3,000 people
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in the outside of that...
and I was next to a pickup truck
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drinking one night at a
bonfire with a front of people
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and we had someone that brought
a foreign-exchange student in
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lo and behold,
that guy that I met
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like, 8 to 10 years later
is a Seventh-day Adventist
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was the guy I'd met previously
at a party when I was drunk,
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first time I'd ever met a
Muslim in the middle of nowhere
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and I'm thinking... how does God
work this 8 to 10 years later?
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I meet that same very guy...
now I'm clean from drinking
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I know that the Bible says
that we're not to drink alcohol
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or eat pork and I meet this
Muslim guy that many years later
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and God was already
working on his heart,
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and obviously mine.
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Look at God... look at
how He brings people together,
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He had you attend a
meeting that Stephen had
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and that kind of
started that whole thing
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but it even started
before, when you were drinking
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and you didn't even realize it.
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No, I was telling
Stephen that I look back at that
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and how do I get in the work
and I ended up at Steve's church
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and I'm like, "How does God
plan all this way ahead of time"
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and to make it happen.
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Yeah, yeah,
yeah... God is awesome.
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Well, let's hear
from Steve, now Steve,
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you've been doing
this work for how long?
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Just after 9/11...
I was in Central Asia
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I had been asked there
to... to see if we could put a
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printing press and to
print Sabbath School lessons
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for... I think it was
the Southern Union of the old
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Adventist Church in Russia
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and on Friday... they took
me to Samarqand, Uzbekistan
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and they took me
to a Muslim shrine
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that venerated that
Bible Prophet Daniel.
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This is what they were telling
me and I... I just didn't know
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but outside there was a relief
written in Russian, Cyrillic,
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and English saying
that very same thing
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and I'm kind of... I
knew nothing about Islam,
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I said, "What do
Muslims have to do
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with the Bible Prophet Daniel?"
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And then on the
way... leaving that place,
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we went by a round-about
that had a lion with wings on it
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which was from
the Book of Daniel
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and that really
started me to question...
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so my daughter was at that
time... going to Loma Linda
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whenever we'd go
out to Loma Linda,
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I'd go to the
Adventist Library there
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and the two ladies who
were overseeing that library...
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I told them what I wanted
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because I didn't know what I
wanted, I just knew what I saw
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and they started bringing me
all these microfiche reels...
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I'd be there for days...
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I wasn't seeing the
daughter... she was in class,
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learning about
Islam and Adventism...
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I knew that in... I think less
than 23 or 26 of the old texts
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in Revelation Seminars
had a whole lesson in Islam
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and I had given
those back in the '80s...
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so that was my mindset...
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I just started to
read... I loved history
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and that's how I created
the... the Maroon Resource Book
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because I found these
things in the Adventist archives
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and I put it here so that
people could find it as well.
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Wow! well tell us about
this book... what is this book?
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This is just some information I
found in the Adventist Archives,
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oh we found it in the
Ministry Magazine Archives,
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we found in just Adventist books
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that were
printed by Pacific Press
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saying that
Muhammad was a prophet
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and today that's almost
like a sin in the church...
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that... "No, how can it be?"
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Well, I don't know,
that's what our church said
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back in the 1950s,
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and I knew that no
one would believe me
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so I had to write
this... I just copied it,
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I didn't... I just
copied it so people can see
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this is what I saw...
and so that's to help people
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understand what our
church was saying years ago.
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So you compiled this book
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that had a lot of the
teachings from years ago
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that Adventists were
teaching about the Muslim faith.
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Right... and then I
came to the logic, I said,
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"If this is true... I have
to go before a Muslim audience"
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and so I went
back to Central Asia...
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the President was
still there and I said,
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when I was there
originally, I said,
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"Would you give
me an opportunity
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to come back and
share these things?"
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I didn't know what I
was even going to find
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but we've done enough
evangelism as a lay person
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I just believe that the message
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that God has given His church
works for all groups of people
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and I had no idea
so two years later,
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we went back and we did a...
two-week evangelistic experiment
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and no one said
it was going to work,
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everyone told me...
it wasn't going to work
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and so, I was a little concerned
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but we had such a
crowd and such a turnout
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the crowd got larger every
night... it didn't get smaller
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and I didn't want
any Adventists to attend,
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and I only wanted hard Muslims
there and God blessed that...
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the last night I was there...
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we extended our
meeting for one week...
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to three weeks total...
and I was on a stage like this
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and I'm speaking and I had
Muslims standing behind me,
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we had that kind
of crowd and turnout,
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it got bigger every night
and people found Christ there
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and so I realized that
the old Bible stories we have,
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the old work the Adventist
pioneers did... works...
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and so, that's been my
work ever since of sharing...
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there is a way...
just look at what we have.
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And how long has it been?
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I think 15 years...
00:10:01.56\00:10:03.53
Yvonne: 15 years...
00:10:03.57\00:10:04.97
Stephen: Right...
just for Muslims...
00:10:05.00\00:10:06.33
Isn't it amazing how...
00:10:06.37\00:10:08.10
we don't know the
plan that God has for us,
00:10:08.14\00:10:12.21
we just never know...
we know that He has a plan
00:10:12.27\00:10:15.04
Jeremiah 29:11... we
know that He has a plan,
00:10:15.11\00:10:17.88
we know that it's
a plan to prosper us
00:10:17.91\00:10:21.65
right, but... and to
give us a future and a hope
00:10:21.68\00:10:25.05
but we don't know
where we're going to be
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or what we're going to be
doing and He just opens it up.
00:10:28.36\00:10:32.16
Did you grow up
in a Christian home?
00:10:32.19\00:10:33.90
My parents had converted
to Adventism before I was born
00:10:33.93\00:10:37.97
like, I refer to myself as a
heathen Seventh-day Adventist.
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A heathen Seventh-day
Adventist, okay explain.
00:10:42.04\00:10:44.87
Well, I got kicked out
of Adventist Schools and
00:10:44.91\00:10:47.71
I joined the Marine
Corp during Vietnam,
00:10:47.74\00:10:49.71
I mean... I was
just... I was just,
00:10:49.74\00:10:52.91
I mean, I've had
people come back and say,
00:10:52.98\00:10:54.75
"You're still in the church?"
00:10:54.78\00:10:56.28
I just said, "Ah... I'm
just a heathen Adventist. "
00:10:56.32\00:11:00.92
So, how did the
Lord... we have time...
00:11:00.96\00:11:03.56
how did the Lord bring you back
00:11:03.59\00:11:05.79
and I want to hear
from you too Jason,
00:11:05.83\00:11:07.46
how the Lord brought you
into His marvelous light.
00:11:07.50\00:11:10.83
In the Marine Corp,
I made a deal with God,
00:11:10.87\00:11:13.00
I said, "I'm going to leave the
church so that I can carry a gun
00:11:13.03\00:11:16.50
and all those
things for three years... "
00:11:16.54\00:11:17.87
and when I got into Boot
Camp, this is a long story
00:11:17.91\00:11:21.01
but I didn't have an
Adventist Drill Instructor
00:11:21.04\00:11:24.28
but I had a Drill Instructor
00:11:24.31\00:11:25.65
that went
through all the religions
00:11:25.68\00:11:27.08
as we were all
lined up, he said,
00:11:27.12\00:11:28.48
"Last of all, do we have
any Seventh-day Adventists?"
00:11:28.52\00:11:30.42
and I raised my hand...
he came down... he said,
00:11:30.49\00:11:32.05
"Every Saturday
morning you disappear... "
00:11:32.09\00:11:34.29
so they forced
me to go to church
00:11:34.32\00:11:37.16
about three
weeks later, they said,
00:11:37.23\00:11:40.03
"Tomorrow is a big practice,
00:11:40.06\00:11:41.66
no excuses, no sick...
be... you're all here. "
00:11:41.70\00:11:44.43
And so I got all
geared up with my bayonet
00:11:44.50\00:11:46.63
standing in line
this Saturday morning,
00:11:46.67\00:11:48.77
the Drill Instructor saw
me, he just hollered at me...
00:11:48.80\00:11:51.64
screamed... he
said, "You get to Church"
00:11:51.67\00:11:53.07
and so, those are the
kinds of stories I had...
00:11:53.11\00:11:57.15
the same thing
with the Firing Range...
00:11:57.18\00:11:58.51
I... first live fire
was on Saturday morning
00:11:58.55\00:12:01.32
and they said, "No excuses... "
00:12:01.35\00:12:02.68
so I'm out there ready
to shoot my rifle again,
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.62
anyway, he threw
me off the firing line
00:12:04.65\00:12:08.16
and made me go to
church so I'm in Vietnam now,
00:12:08.19\00:12:11.43
I'm there for my third
tour and I am a Sergeant...
00:12:11.46\00:12:14.63
I had my own Landing Zone and
a message comes in from the base
00:12:14.66\00:12:18.43
that said that,
"Chaplain wants to see you"
00:12:18.50\00:12:20.17
I thought, "Why does the
Chaplain want to see me?"
00:12:20.20\00:12:23.81
And I ran over, I go back
to the base camp at Tay Ninh
00:12:23.84\00:12:27.38
I walk into the Company Office,
00:12:27.41\00:12:29.41
the old Gunnery
Sergeant's there...
00:12:29.44\00:12:30.81
they had been there 26 years...
what we call a "China Marine"
00:12:30.85\00:12:33.18
he said, "Dickie,
why are you here?"
00:12:33.21\00:12:35.25
I said, "Well,
Chaplain called me. "
00:12:35.28\00:12:37.22
He said, "Dickie if you
walk into the Chaplain's office,
00:12:37.25\00:12:40.39
the roof's going to fall in"
00:12:40.42\00:12:41.76
so I went over to
the Chaplain's Office,
00:12:41.79\00:12:44.53
told who I was,
00:12:44.56\00:12:46.80
he said, "Well, I'm
the new Chaplain here,"
00:12:46.83\00:12:48.90
and he said, "I'm a
Seventh-day Adventist"
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.97
he said, "Would you like to
go to church with me, tomorrow?"
00:12:51.00\00:12:53.03
Well, I had lost all
concept of what day it was
00:12:53.10\00:12:55.37
so he made me go to church
00:12:55.40\00:12:57.14
and I had no idea
who that fellow was
00:12:57.17\00:12:59.47
until about four years ago,
00:12:59.51\00:13:01.04
I was speaking in
Desert Hot Springs,
00:13:01.08\00:13:02.61
I just relayed a
little bit of the story
00:13:02.64\00:13:04.08
and he was sitting there and
he says, "I'm that Chaplain. "
00:13:04.11\00:13:07.38
Wow!
00:13:07.42\00:13:08.78
So that's how God found me, I
also married an Adventist wife
00:13:08.82\00:13:11.25
and the Lord blessed me.
00:13:11.29\00:13:13.86
Amen... amen... so you went
after the service and all that,
00:13:13.89\00:13:19.86
you ended up getting involved
in Sabbath School or...?
00:13:19.89\00:13:24.07
Well, ministry basically,
00:13:24.10\00:13:25.43
in the '80s... I
knew I could sell,
00:13:25.47\00:13:27.94
I could sell things... I was a
peddler... sold heavy equipment
00:13:27.97\00:13:31.61
and... Bob Borne came around
00:13:31.64\00:13:36.24
at ASI... when ASI was
different than what you saw
00:13:36.28\00:13:39.91
it was only attended
by 80 people nationally,
00:13:39.95\00:13:42.38
and he taught how to
give Revelation Seminars
00:13:42.45\00:13:45.49
and I went through a
Day Seminar of learning
00:13:45.52\00:13:48.52
and I think we did
five or six of them
00:13:48.56\00:13:50.89
and people came in
and it was just a thrill
00:13:50.93\00:13:54.10
to do that type of Evangelism
00:13:54.13\00:13:57.23
so that's where I learned back
in the '80s... and so forth.
00:13:57.27\00:14:00.34
That is so great, so
now, how did you find Jesus?
00:14:00.40\00:14:04.17
Well, I'll start off... first of
all a little bit about my dad.
00:14:04.21\00:14:08.28
I was raised in Minnesota there
in the farm with my parents
00:14:08.31\00:14:12.38
Dad was a heavy
construction worker
00:14:12.41\00:14:14.55
underground... water,
main and sewer pipe layer
00:14:14.58\00:14:18.25
and he was a heavy
drinker and when I was a kid,
00:14:18.29\00:14:22.02
late teens there, my
dad had rear-ended a car
00:14:22.06\00:14:25.73
which hit another car and
he almost killed the people
00:14:25.76\00:14:30.20
and due to that my dad was...
he was at home on probation
00:14:30.23\00:14:34.60
and my mom was
about ready to leave him
00:14:34.64\00:14:38.61
and he started... he
wanted to pray to God for help
00:14:38.64\00:14:40.94
because he realized he
couldn't quit on his own
00:14:40.98\00:14:43.45
so he'd got down on his
knees one day and prayed
00:14:43.51\00:14:45.95
and he started opening the Bible
00:14:46.01\00:14:48.62
and he came across
the seventh-day Sabbath
00:14:48.65\00:14:51.69
and he's like, "I've never heard
of anyone talk about this day,"
00:14:51.72\00:14:56.22
well, anyways, he
had turned on the TV
00:14:56.26\00:14:58.96
and seen this TV Station
00:14:58.99\00:15:02.43
that was presenting
the seventh-day Sabbath
00:15:02.46\00:15:04.07
was actually 3ABN.
00:15:04.13\00:15:05.83
Yvonne: Oh...
00:15:05.87\00:15:07.20
So my dad had sent in a donation
00:15:07.24\00:15:08.97
and apparently the 3ABN here
had a contact there in the area
00:15:09.00\00:15:14.28
and they sent out
through the church...
00:15:14.31\00:15:16.51
there were some
local people there
00:15:16.54\00:15:17.88
to start doing Bible
Studies to meet my dad
00:15:17.91\00:15:20.68
and so my dad was
sharing things with me
00:15:20.72\00:15:23.39
for about four or five years,
"Jase, Jesus is coming... "
00:15:23.42\00:15:26.45
at that time I
was drinking heavily,
00:15:26.49\00:15:28.96
I worked in a Mink Ranch
and I was married with two...
00:15:28.99\00:15:34.86
actually three step-kids
and whenever he talked to me
00:15:34.90\00:15:40.47
I'd listened but it
never had any effect
00:15:40.50\00:15:43.30
and then one night
he asked me, he says,
00:15:43.34\00:15:46.07
"Jase, I'm going to head to a
Seminar, I'd like you to come,"
00:15:46.11\00:15:49.14
it was a Daniel
and Revelation Seminar
00:15:49.18\00:15:51.88
so I remember
going at that time,
00:15:51.91\00:15:54.58
I had pretty long hair,
chewing tobacco in my mouth
00:15:54.62\00:15:58.52
and I had probably gotten
high earlier before the meetings
00:15:58.55\00:16:02.69
but I went to those meetings
only because my dad asked.
00:16:02.72\00:16:06.53
I didn't go
because I had any interest,
00:16:06.56\00:16:09.46
but I sat in that
meeting and this lady...
00:16:09.50\00:16:12.10
right away they
were talking about diet,
00:16:12.13\00:16:14.87
she was talking
about a vegetarian diet
00:16:14.90\00:16:17.61
and I... I'm a mink rancher,
00:16:17.64\00:16:19.24
that was the worst
people ever in our life
00:16:19.27\00:16:21.94
but I started to gain an
interest in what was being said
00:16:21.98\00:16:26.01
and I never had an interest
in health in all my life ever...
00:16:26.05\00:16:29.48
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:16:29.52\00:16:30.85
And then it came from the
gentleman that was presenting,
00:16:30.89\00:16:33.59
he started presenting
Daniel chapter 2... the image...
00:16:33.62\00:16:36.56
and I was raised as a Lutheran
00:16:36.59\00:16:39.29
but I never knew
what the Bible was,
00:16:39.33\00:16:40.66
I tried reading it in Genesis
once or twice... few times...
00:16:40.70\00:16:43.43
just seemed boring, anyways,
00:16:43.47\00:16:46.94
he went through
Daniel... did the image
00:16:46.97\00:16:49.10
and then I came at the very
last two nights of the meetings
00:16:49.14\00:16:51.67
so they talked on Revelation
13 and the Mark of the Beast
00:16:51.71\00:16:55.41
and at that point,
when he spoke on Daniel 2
00:16:55.44\00:16:59.28
and he got into the
issue of the Mark of the Beast
00:16:59.31\00:17:01.95
and the Sabbath... the
thought came to my mind...
00:17:01.98\00:17:04.59
and it says, "There's only one
person that I know in my life
00:17:04.62\00:17:08.42
that's following Jesus
right now and that's my dad. "
00:17:08.46\00:17:10.66
I said, "All the rest
of... everyone I know...
00:17:10.69\00:17:13.73
every one... is lost... "
00:17:13.76\00:17:15.76
and then the Lord
spoke to me at those meetings
00:17:15.80\00:17:19.53
and He told me... I was lost...
00:17:19.57\00:17:23.61
Yvonne: Yeah...
00:17:23.64\00:17:25.01
And I had seen...
00:17:25.04\00:17:27.74
I was raised many times
00:17:27.78\00:17:29.74
to hear the name
of Jesus in a prayer
00:17:29.78\00:17:31.78
but that was the first
time that I had ever seen
00:17:31.81\00:17:35.72
where the death of
Jesus meant something to me
00:17:35.75\00:17:39.59
and I prayed for the first time,
00:17:39.62\00:17:42.12
I prayed, not
because I had a hangover,
00:17:42.16\00:17:44.53
not to get a girlfriend but I
prayed for my heart and my sin
00:17:44.56\00:17:49.23
and so that was the
opening night of my start
00:17:49.26\00:17:53.70
and I started attending the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:17:53.74\00:17:56.84
right after that...
and I just... just...
00:17:56.87\00:18:02.74
eating up everything I could,
00:18:02.78\00:18:05.01
people would have
me over from church,
00:18:05.05\00:18:07.32
people did
Bible Studies with me,
00:18:07.35\00:18:09.92
people gave me
books... Ellen White books,
00:18:09.95\00:18:13.56
I'd watch Doug
Batchelor' s program on 3ABN.
00:18:13.59\00:18:17.16
I started the TV...
00:18:17.19\00:18:19.89
the regular TV started
dwindling out of my life,
00:18:19.93\00:18:22.16
I just... I was getting
accustomed to something all new.
00:18:22.20\00:18:27.57
Hmmm... hmmm... how
beautiful is that, really!
00:18:27.60\00:18:31.61
when we realize
that Jesus Christ
00:18:31.67\00:18:36.04
is not just someone out
there, but that He loves you,
00:18:36.08\00:18:41.88
like... you, me, you,
it's... He becomes so personal,
00:18:41.92\00:18:47.82
He became personal to
you with that episode...
00:18:47.86\00:18:51.59
that incident... He
became personal to you
00:18:51.63\00:18:55.43
and Holy Spirit
just... He was wooing you
00:18:55.46\00:18:59.20
and just drawing you in
what a beautiful testimony,
00:18:59.23\00:19:02.80
really, so, after that...
00:19:02.84\00:19:06.88
you started working in ministry?
00:19:06.91\00:19:11.18
What did you do, how did
you get in ministry from there?
00:19:11.21\00:19:13.68
Well, I started out just
working with the local church,
00:19:13.72\00:19:16.18
I was facing a lot of...
00:19:16.22\00:19:17.55
when I came in the
church we had a lot of people
00:19:17.59\00:19:19.32
that liked to
do Literature Work,
00:19:19.35\00:19:21.09
a lot of people worked the
Fair Booths at local facilities
00:19:21.12\00:19:24.99
where there
were large gatherings
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.39
and I just got my
hands in on different things,
00:19:26.43\00:19:29.23
whatever...
whenever we had something,
00:19:29.26\00:19:31.90
I'd go out with the
different people in the church,
00:19:31.93\00:19:33.94
we had Miriam McNeil and
she did a lot of Health Seminars
00:19:33.97\00:19:38.61
so I learned a lot of
health... more how to eat...
00:19:38.64\00:19:41.64
different princ...
00:19:41.68\00:19:43.01
not principles but different
things of treatments like
00:19:43.04\00:19:44.75
water treatments,
hydrotherapy, charcoal.
00:19:44.78\00:19:48.08
Yvonne: Natural remedies...
00:19:48.12\00:19:49.45
Yeah, a pharmacy in the kitchen
00:19:49.48\00:19:51.25
and so I was very fortunate,
00:19:51.29\00:19:52.99
God had put a lot
of people in my life
00:19:53.02\00:19:54.59
through the local church
that helped me to learn things
00:19:54.62\00:19:57.99
so I learned a lot right there
00:19:58.03\00:19:59.59
and then years later
I was asked by Stephen
00:19:59.63\00:20:03.06
to attend a meeting
there on how to reach Muslims
00:20:03.10\00:20:05.63
and there was only, I think,
maybe 6 or 8 of us that went
00:20:05.67\00:20:09.04
there were a
couple of gentlemen there
00:20:09.07\00:20:11.11
by the name of Ronnie
and Sam and they invited me
00:20:11.14\00:20:13.17
to attend the ARISE Program
00:20:13.21\00:20:15.94
so I attended the ARISE
Program for about four months
00:20:15.98\00:20:19.51
and then after
that things opened
00:20:19.55\00:20:21.88
where I was able to
be a... a Bible Worker
00:20:21.92\00:20:23.99
at a local church in
New York and that's...
00:20:24.02\00:20:26.02
that's what started my
journey to New York City area.
00:20:26.05\00:20:30.76
My intentions were,
I would go to New York,
00:20:30.79\00:20:35.46
work for four months and leave
00:20:35.50\00:20:37.73
because I did not
want to be in the big city.
00:20:37.77\00:20:39.63
How long have you been there?
00:20:39.67\00:20:41.04
Well, I've been on
and off here now for...
00:20:41.07\00:20:44.87
man! I'm trying to think
how many years it's been,
00:20:44.94\00:20:47.28
I've been there for probably...
00:20:47.31\00:20:49.68
probably four years now
on and off a little bit.
00:20:49.74\00:20:53.31
Yvonne: Wow!
00:20:53.35\00:20:54.78
Yeah and when I first went
there, I had no intentions ever
00:20:54.82\00:20:58.02
but when I got
there I realized that
00:20:58.05\00:21:01.52
one, God had opened the
door for me to work there
00:21:01.56\00:21:04.46
specifically with
Muslims through the Conference
00:21:04.49\00:21:07.40
the New York Conference there...
00:21:07.43\00:21:08.76
and also, He
had shown me that...
00:21:08.80\00:21:11.57
that this was a city
that needed to be worked...
00:21:11.60\00:21:14.30
and that's when I actually,
00:21:14.34\00:21:17.74
I gained a love to
work the New York City area
00:21:17.77\00:21:22.28
there is nothing
more than I liked
00:21:22.31\00:21:24.45
than to... to
reach New York City.
00:21:24.48\00:21:26.51
New York has its
own energy doesn't it?
00:21:26.55\00:21:29.08
I'm a New Yorker so...
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:21:29.12\00:21:33.05
So, let's go back to Stephen,
so let's talk a bit about
00:21:33.09\00:21:36.86
what Christians and
Muslims have in common,
00:21:36.93\00:21:40.66
what things do
we share in terms of
00:21:40.70\00:21:44.90
beliefs and Old Testament
and that kind of thing?
00:21:44.93\00:21:51.27
Well, I started
attending General Conference
00:21:51.31\00:21:54.64
in North America
Division Muslim Meetings
00:21:54.68\00:21:58.05
and I think I have
been to every single one
00:21:58.11\00:22:01.22
held anywhere in
the word since 2002
00:22:01.25\00:22:03.35
because I wanted to hear
what the other people were doing
00:22:03.39\00:22:07.29
I took it upon myself to
interview retired missionaries
00:22:07.32\00:22:11.19
I'd go there and
listen to their story
00:22:11.23\00:22:13.60
because I didn't know
Muslims, I didn't know...
00:22:13.63\00:22:15.06
Another thing that concerned
me, I'd go to all these meetings
00:22:15.10\00:22:19.13
and there was no
Seventh-day Adventist literature
00:22:19.17\00:22:20.97
at these meetings because
no one had written anything,
00:22:21.00\00:22:24.64
the last book
that had been written,
00:22:24.67\00:22:26.01
that was from a Seventh-day
Adventist perspective
00:22:26.04\00:22:27.84
was 1979... and that's
the one we shared with you,
00:22:27.88\00:22:29.74
so, I realized... when I
started to go with my research
00:22:29.78\00:22:35.58
and I found this information,
00:22:35.62\00:22:36.95
I said, "This is
great news because
00:22:36.99\00:22:39.05
the Muslim says our
Bible is corrupted...
00:22:39.09\00:22:41.09
and you can never
win the argument...
00:22:41.12\00:22:43.12
you know... I tried...
00:22:43.16\00:22:44.89
as others have tried
and I also realized that
00:22:44.93\00:22:48.16
once you have a hard
discussion with a Muslim,
00:22:48.20\00:22:51.37
that opportunity
is closed forever
00:22:51.43\00:22:53.74
not unless the guy
goes back and re-opens it,
00:22:53.77\00:22:55.70
that's why I was
very careful of...
00:22:55.74\00:22:57.67
Jason and I... we say,
"It's easier to reach a Muslim
00:22:57.71\00:23:00.34
but you've got to handle three
questions very carefully. "
00:23:00.38\00:23:03.01
Oh, what are they?
00:23:03.04\00:23:04.38
Well, the Bible is... they want
to say the Bible is corrupted
00:23:04.41\00:23:07.68
and you'd say,
00:23:07.72\00:23:09.48
"I really like what your Qur'an
says about what Jesus is... "
00:23:09.52\00:23:13.19
and I smile and I
don't go any further,
00:23:13.22\00:23:16.62
the tendency we have as
Adventists is to say too much.
00:23:16.69\00:23:18.96
And then they
always want to know about
00:23:18.99\00:23:21.83
the personality of
Jesus and God and I say,
00:23:21.86\00:23:24.63
"Your Qur'an is so clear
on what it says about Jesus
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.94
it's amazing... " I
frown a little bit...
00:23:27.97\00:23:31.34
I act like I'm
thinking... I say,
00:23:31.37\00:23:33.51
"You know, the Qur'an
in Surah 1919 says that
00:23:33.54\00:23:35.84
Jesus received a
gift of righteousness...
00:23:35.88\00:23:38.11
without that
gift of righteousness,
00:23:38.15\00:23:40.08
there's no hope for me and you
00:23:40.12\00:23:41.45
to go through the
judgment to see Jesus come,"
00:23:41.48\00:23:43.49
I said, "You're Qur'an
makes it very clear... "
00:23:43.52\00:23:45.69
now, a Muslim has never
heard that from a Christian,
00:23:45.72\00:23:48.52
Right... a Christian
quoting the Qur'an...
00:23:48.59\00:23:51.43
Because what you have to
do, you want to get to the point
00:23:51.46\00:23:54.90
where you can just
visit with a Muslim...
00:23:54.93\00:23:56.50
and what Jason and I have found
00:23:56.53\00:23:58.50
and others that
are here in this work,
00:23:58.53\00:23:59.87
"if you can't get
inside of the Muslim's
00:23:59.90\00:24:02.10
friendship... within a
matter of a minute and a half
00:24:02.14\00:24:04.87
to two minutes,
you've done something wrong"
00:24:04.91\00:24:06.24
because a Muslim wants
to talk about the end time,
00:24:06.27\00:24:10.95
they want to talk
and we talk about...
00:24:11.01\00:24:14.25
the other thing about Jesus is,
"Your Qur'an makes it so clear
00:24:14.28\00:24:17.62
that when God gave His
Word, it says in your Qur'an,
00:24:17.65\00:24:21.89
that His name is Christ Jesus,"
00:24:21.92\00:24:24.79
I say, "That's so clear, so the
Bible has the same principle...
00:24:24.83\00:24:27.30
that Jesus is the Word of God"
00:24:27.33\00:24:28.66
and so, a Muslim has never heard
that from a Christian before,
00:24:28.73\00:24:33.44
you've
neutralized their concept,
00:24:33.47\00:24:35.80
you've established
credibility in the Bible
00:24:35.84\00:24:38.27
but the prophecies that we found
00:24:38.31\00:24:40.81
in the old Adventist charts,
in 1843... the Millerites...
00:24:40.84\00:24:44.98
and then in the 1850 chart
00:24:45.01\00:24:46.98
where we show them that they're
in the old Adventist Eschatology
00:24:47.02\00:24:51.85
all of a sudden... a
Denomination of people
00:24:51.89\00:24:55.36
are saying, "You
Muslims are in the Bible"
00:24:55.39\00:24:58.83
and you smile when you say it.
00:24:58.86\00:25:00.43
That literally works...
00:25:00.50\00:25:01.86
we've tracked up and down
the streets of Istanbul, Turkey,
00:25:01.90\00:25:04.73
for three days...
00:25:04.77\00:25:06.10
my Muslim friend who
became a follower of Jesus
00:25:06.13\00:25:09.20
and I'd roll
those old charts out
00:25:09.24\00:25:12.91
and we got it to the
right group of people one day
00:25:12.94\00:25:16.34
and they listened for...
00:25:16.41\00:25:18.75
they said, "You got
22 minutes, Stephen,
00:25:18.81\00:25:20.32
to sit... to
talk about this... "
00:25:20.38\00:25:21.72
Yvonne: They put
you on the clock...
00:25:21.75\00:25:23.12
Oh they put you... you
always run by the clock,
00:25:23.15\00:25:25.12
they never go
over... you got to be...
00:25:25.15\00:25:27.26
because Muslims are
very structured in legalism
00:25:27.29\00:25:29.36
and so you've got...
00:25:29.39\00:25:30.73
until you become
friends with them,
00:25:30.76\00:25:32.73
you've got to play the role
00:25:32.79\00:25:34.13
and so, I told
them the story, I said,
00:25:34.16\00:25:37.27
"You Muslims shed your blood
00:25:37.30\00:25:38.67
to give me the right to be
a Seventh-day Adventist... "
00:25:38.70\00:25:40.80
I said, "God called you people
00:25:40.84\00:25:42.50
that's why you had
Suleiman the Magnificent...
00:25:42.54\00:25:44.51
that's why you have
these in your history...
00:25:44.54\00:25:46.44
because God wanted you on place
when Luther and Melanchthon
00:25:46.47\00:25:51.65
were going to be
killed by Charles the Fifth...
00:25:51.68\00:25:53.31
when he was going to go
and execute the Pope's wishes"
00:25:53.35\00:25:56.05
and I said, "You're
men, your ancestors...
00:25:56.08\00:25:58.39
you don't even know
about... shed their blood
00:25:58.42\00:26:00.69
to give me the right to
be a Seventh-day Adventist
00:26:00.72\00:26:02.46
and I have a responsibility
00:26:02.49\00:26:03.83
to tell you that
you're in the Bible... "
00:26:03.86\00:26:05.79
when that all took place,
00:26:05.83\00:26:07.33
the man that we
were there to see
00:26:07.36\00:26:11.53
he said, "Wait a minute... "
00:26:11.57\00:26:12.90
20 minutes later, he
went over against the wall,
00:26:12.93\00:26:15.30
turned his back to us,
he came back and he said,
00:26:15.34\00:26:17.77
"Tomorrow... " he
looked at his watch...
00:26:17.81\00:26:19.17
he said, "I have
an interview for you
00:26:19.21\00:26:20.54
at one of the largest
newspapers in Istanbul
00:26:20.58\00:26:22.34
about Seventh-day Adventists"
00:26:22.38\00:26:23.71
and he said, "Can
you go to Ankara?"
00:26:23.75\00:26:26.41
He said, "I have you
on a live call-in program
00:26:26.45\00:26:29.08
on Friday night... "
this was Wednesday...
00:26:29.12\00:26:31.09
Yvonne: Hmmm... my!
00:26:31.12\00:26:32.45
Stephen: And he
says, "Can you go?"
00:26:32.49\00:26:33.82
Well, you know,
we pray about things,
00:26:33.86\00:26:35.29
we didn't have to say,
"We'll have prayer... "
00:26:35.32\00:26:36.66
but we said,
"Yes, we'll go there"
00:26:36.69\00:26:38.03
and so those are the kinds
of things when a Muslim hears...
00:26:38.06\00:26:40.63
they're in the
Bible... in a positive way
00:26:40.66\00:26:43.03
rather than arguing
about this or that...
00:26:43.06\00:26:45.43
which is ridiculous,
00:26:45.47\00:26:47.27
we have found it so
easy to reach Muslims...
00:26:47.30\00:26:50.27
and Jason... he
puts this to everyday
00:26:50.31\00:26:53.31
on the streets of New York.
00:26:53.34\00:26:55.14
Give us an example, Jason.
00:26:55.18\00:26:56.54
Well, I'm not sure how long
ago it was here in New York City
00:26:56.58\00:27:00.85
but there are Muslims
everywhere on the streets there
00:27:00.88\00:27:03.05
and the number one thing is
00:27:03.08\00:27:04.65
when you're coming
to visit with a Muslim
00:27:04.69\00:27:06.55
is you want to say the
greeting, Salaam-Alaikum
00:27:06.59\00:27:09.22
that means, "May
God's peace be upon you"
00:27:09.26\00:27:11.46
just like when
you're reading the Bible
00:27:11.49\00:27:13.66
and Jesus ever entered a house,
00:27:13.70\00:27:15.36
He said, "Peace
be unto this house"
00:27:15.40\00:27:17.90
well the Muslims... they'll put
their hand over their hearts...
00:27:17.93\00:27:22.20
it's like the western
world giving a handshake,
00:27:22.24\00:27:24.34
they put their
hand over their heart,
00:27:24.37\00:27:26.44
that means you're close to me,
00:27:26.47\00:27:28.71
so you'd come up and
you'd say, "Salaam-Alaikum"
00:27:28.74\00:27:31.08
in a greeting and...
00:27:31.11\00:27:32.45
normally the
Muslims will look at me
00:27:32.48\00:27:34.32
and they see this
white man from the west
00:27:34.35\00:27:37.79
and they're like,
"Oh, you're a Muslim?"
00:27:37.85\00:27:41.62
I say, "No, I am a
00:27:41.66\00:27:44.36
Seventh-day
Adventist" and normally they...
00:27:44.39\00:27:46.06
they're not sure if
they're hearing you wrong,
00:27:46.09\00:27:49.36
if they
understood what you said,
00:27:49.40\00:27:51.03
so they'll be like...
"Se... se... seventh... "
00:27:51.07\00:27:54.67
you go through it
three or four times
00:27:54.70\00:27:56.40
and pretty soon
you're just like,
00:27:56.44\00:27:58.11
"Seventh-day Adventist... it's
okay if you can't pronounce it"
00:27:58.14\00:28:00.44
and they're
like... and they'll say,
00:28:00.48\00:28:03.24
they'll always
say, "What is that?"
00:28:03.28\00:28:06.15
And then we
normally share the things
00:28:06.18\00:28:08.32
that we have in
common right away,
00:28:08.35\00:28:10.42
I'll say, "Well as a
Seventh-day Adventist,
00:28:10.45\00:28:12.09
we're a group of people that
don't believe in eating pork"
00:28:12.12\00:28:15.89
and the one reason I
share that right away
00:28:15.92\00:28:17.99
is because a Muslim looks
at a Christian and believes...
00:28:18.03\00:28:21.70
because all of Christianity
today for the most part,
00:28:21.73\00:28:25.37
says that, "Jesus
gave the authority
00:28:25.40\00:28:28.27
and blessed and changed...
00:28:28.30\00:28:29.64
that we can eat anything
and drink anything we want. "
00:28:29.67\00:28:31.81
So when you come to a Muslim,
00:28:31.84\00:28:34.01
and you say, "I don't eat pork,
I don't believe in drinking"
00:28:34.04\00:28:38.15
they'll say, "Why?"
00:28:38.21\00:28:39.55
you say, "Well,
because of the Bible...
00:28:39.58\00:28:41.15
the Bible shares that with us"
00:28:41.18\00:28:43.25
and so, we've got
different literature
00:28:43.28\00:28:45.15
that we give to the Muslims
that share all the verses
00:28:45.19\00:28:47.49
in the Bible that speak against
drinking alcohol and eating pork
00:28:47.52\00:28:51.49
because what
you're trying to do is,
00:28:51.53\00:28:53.43
you are trying... remember,
00:28:53.46\00:28:54.80
just like we as Christians are
scared of Muslims and their book
00:28:54.83\00:28:58.53
they're just as scared
to look and open our Book.
00:28:58.57\00:29:00.90
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:29:00.94\00:29:02.27
Because they've been taught
from little babies and kids
00:29:02.30\00:29:05.64
that our Book is
false and not to read it.
00:29:05.67\00:29:07.38
Hmmm...
00:29:07.41\00:29:08.74
So, just as Jesus...
when He walked this earth,
00:29:08.78\00:29:12.15
He gained the
confidence of all people
00:29:12.18\00:29:14.35
and that can be done
through many different ways
00:29:14.38\00:29:16.92
but what you're doing right
now when you meet a Muslim,
00:29:16.95\00:29:19.89
as a Seventh-day
Adventist for the first time
00:29:19.92\00:29:21.69
and you bring
these first few things,
00:29:21.72\00:29:23.86
what you're
stating to their mind is...
00:29:23.89\00:29:26.29
is that you are
actually following truth
00:29:26.33\00:29:28.26
as they know to be truth...
00:29:28.30\00:29:29.63
Yvonne: Right.
00:29:29.66\00:29:31.00
So they're like, this person...
00:29:31.03\00:29:32.40
there's something specifically
different about this person.
00:29:32.43\00:29:36.30
Yvonne: Yes.
00:29:36.34\00:29:37.67
So no matter who you work with,
00:29:37.71\00:29:39.21
if we share something we
have in common with truth,
00:29:39.24\00:29:42.24
they relate that to
honesty and things of God
00:29:42.28\00:29:46.05
and they're very
willing to open up too
00:29:46.08\00:29:49.75
because just like we're a
little sketchy and full of fear,
00:29:49.78\00:29:53.49
they are too... because
they're attacked day after day
00:29:53.52\00:29:57.19
by Christians saying,
00:29:57.23\00:29:58.56
"Jesus is the Son of God
and Jesus died on the cross... "
00:29:58.59\00:30:02.46
they've heard it
thousands of times...
00:30:02.50\00:30:04.30
we're not the first
ones to bring that to them.
00:30:04.33\00:30:06.53
Right... right... I love the
idea of what you guys are doing
00:30:06.57\00:30:12.14
in terms of
quoting from their book...
00:30:12.17\00:30:14.91
showing the validity...
co-relation, I want to say,
00:30:14.94\00:30:21.32
between their book... the
Qur'an and our Book... the Bible
00:30:21.38\00:30:25.05
and showing that the
Bible teaches, "Don't eat pork,"
00:30:25.09\00:30:31.19
the Bible teaches
about not destroying the body
00:30:31.23\00:30:36.33
with alcohol and
things like that,
00:30:36.36\00:30:37.80
so, what you're
doing... and by quoting...
00:30:37.83\00:30:41.24
and giving them specific quotes,
00:30:41.27\00:30:43.34
that... to me... is like...
establishing a rapport...
00:30:43.37\00:30:47.44
the first thing you're doing
is establishing a rapport...
00:30:47.48\00:30:51.51
because just like you said,
00:30:51.55\00:30:53.35
everybody's a little sketchy
about the other person's book,
00:30:53.38\00:30:57.12
right, I'm kind
of like... "Okay... "
00:30:57.15\00:30:59.22
so they're looking at you
like the Bible is corrupt...
00:30:59.25\00:31:03.32
and the average Adventist
is looking at them like,
00:31:03.36\00:31:06.49
"Well, we have the
truth and we're going to... "
00:31:06.53\00:31:09.56
but the real deal, I think,
and what I hear you saying is,
00:31:09.60\00:31:13.17
establish that rapport
and work within the framework
00:31:13.20\00:31:18.04
of their timing
and that kind of thing.
00:31:18.07\00:31:20.38
One of the things I've learned
00:31:20.41\00:31:21.74
and it wasn't
that many years ago,
00:31:21.78\00:31:23.11
two years ago, I
came up with flash cards,
00:31:23.14\00:31:25.28
1 plus 1 is 2... 9 x 9 is 81...
00:31:25.31\00:31:29.92
and then I have an
Algebra equation...
00:31:29.95\00:31:31.75
I used that mainly
within Adventist circles
00:31:31.79\00:31:34.59
I said, "I went to
a conventional school,
00:31:34.62\00:31:37.36
one plus one... I
learned that in First Grade,
00:31:37.43\00:31:39.63
but I learned 9 x 9 is
81... that was Fourth Grade"
00:31:39.66\00:31:43.70
and I said, "Algebra... I
got into that at Seventh Grade"
00:31:43.73\00:31:47.60
I said, "When
we talk to Muslims,
00:31:47.64\00:31:50.41
the problem that
most of us have had...
00:31:50.44\00:31:52.34
we want to talk Spiritual
Algebra in the first two minutes
00:31:52.37\00:31:55.71
and you lose it...
and you never get the
00:31:55.74\00:31:57.48
opportunity to
reach that Muslim. "
00:31:57.55\00:31:59.25
If we teach in increments...
00:31:59.28\00:32:01.28
if the First Grade
Teacher... she had to have known
00:32:01.32\00:32:04.75
basically... basic Algebra
to get the Teaching Certificate,
00:32:04.79\00:32:09.39
but she never taught a
single First Grader... Algebra,
00:32:09.42\00:32:12.29
she only taught 1 plus 1...
one of those simple things...
00:32:12.33\00:32:15.16
it doesn't mean she
didn't know it... she knew it...
00:32:15.20\00:32:18.13
and that's one of the
things we teach in our classes
00:32:18.17\00:32:21.04
that people know
how to reach Muslims,
00:32:21.07\00:32:22.74
you've got to
incrementally sound in thinking
00:32:22.77\00:32:25.97
and not let a Muslim push
you to do Spiritual Algebra
00:32:26.01\00:32:29.51
because, otherwise,
you'll blow it that way too,
00:32:29.54\00:32:32.11
they want to push you.
00:32:32.18\00:32:33.52
Ah... unpack that
a little bit for us.
00:32:33.55\00:32:35.18
Well, there's some
things you just don't move to,
00:32:35.22\00:32:37.59
that's why I smile... and
not normally a natural smile
00:32:37.65\00:32:41.22
but you learn to
smile... and you say,
00:32:41.29\00:32:42.76
"I really like what your Qur'an
says, da... da... da... da...
00:32:42.79\00:32:44.76
and there is probably, Jason,
00:32:44.79\00:32:48.00
Jesus is mentioned how
many times in the Qur'an?
00:32:48.03\00:32:49.96
Man, I can't
remember now exactly...
00:32:50.00\00:32:51.83
I think it... I
don't want to say for sure
00:32:51.87\00:32:55.34
but I want to say it's over
25 actually, probably 35 times.
00:32:55.37\00:32:58.91
And that is the most common
use proper name in the Qur'an
00:32:58.94\00:33:02.41
and so... it's... Yvonne: Jesus?
00:33:02.44\00:33:05.28
Stephen: Yes, yes.
00:33:05.31\00:33:06.65
Jason: Now the
Muslims call Him Isa...
00:33:06.68\00:33:08.05
so if you're
reading in Arabic...
00:33:08.08\00:33:09.68
Stephen: Yeah, and so,
you play into their logic,
00:33:09.72\00:33:13.42
Number 1: they've
never... let me say this,
00:33:13.46\00:33:15.99
we Seventh-day
Adventist and all Christians,
00:33:16.02\00:33:18.49
we have the Bible, if
you're talking to a Baptist
00:33:18.53\00:33:20.90
or Methodist,
you've got your Bible,
00:33:20.93\00:33:22.30
I believe this...
and I believe this...
00:33:22.33\00:33:23.67
this is what it says...
a Muslim never does that.
00:33:23.70\00:33:25.73
We find that when
we train our people,
00:33:25.77\00:33:28.47
they really know the Qur'an
better than the Muslim does
00:33:28.50\00:33:31.41
because Muslims...
their concept of salvation is
00:33:31.44\00:33:36.14
"I need to recite
the Qur'an in Arabic
00:33:36.18\00:33:38.61
and I don't need
to know what it means"
00:33:38.65\00:33:41.02
that's how they receive
salvation... they believe...
00:33:41.05\00:33:43.25
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:33:43.28\00:33:44.95
So when we start
talking about these verses,
00:33:44.99\00:33:47.99
they've never...
they... I've never had a Muslim
00:33:48.02\00:33:51.49
in all the years
I've been doing this,
00:33:51.53\00:33:52.96
say, "You're... the
Qur'an says this... "
00:33:52.99\00:33:54.36
I've never had him say that.
00:33:54.40\00:33:55.73
Yvonne: You're
kidding... Stephen: Never...
00:33:55.76\00:33:57.37
Yvonne: So when
they go to the Mosque,
00:33:57.40\00:33:59.73
they're not learning verses,
00:33:59.77\00:34:03.34
I know they pray
but they're not...
00:34:03.37\00:34:05.37
Stephen: Well, they're learning
in Arabic but they don't know...
00:34:05.41\00:34:07.84
they don't have to
know what they mean.
00:34:07.88\00:34:10.21
Many Muslims
don't... can't speak Arabic
00:34:10.25\00:34:12.45
but they learn it to
hear it and to recite it...
00:34:12.51\00:34:14.52
even though they don't
know the meaning of it.
00:34:14.55\00:34:16.48
I see, I see... so when you've
talked to different Muslims
00:34:16.52\00:34:21.69
they've never quoted... ever...
00:34:21.72\00:34:24.16
No, it's very
common for us as Adventists
00:34:24.19\00:34:26.19
to be giving them an insight
00:34:26.23\00:34:27.66
as to what the Qur'an
says in their language.
00:34:27.70\00:34:30.50
Jason and I... we
met a Muslim Publisher,
00:34:30.57\00:34:33.34
the largest English
Qur'an translation program
00:34:33.37\00:34:36.47
in the world, he's
right in Queens, New York
00:34:36.50\00:34:39.57
and Jason and I
went to do business...
00:34:39.61\00:34:41.38
spent seven hours with this
man, this man was so insightful,
00:34:41.41\00:34:44.91
he never once challenged
us possibly, we just talked,
00:34:44.95\00:34:49.65
and one of the things he
mentioned, he said, you know...
00:34:49.68\00:34:51.92
he said, "I believe
98 percent of Muslims
00:34:51.95\00:34:55.12
have never read the
Qur'an in their own language,
00:34:55.16\00:34:58.46
he said, "The
concept of Islam is
00:34:58.49\00:35:00.56
that they have
to learn in Arabic
00:35:00.60\00:35:02.40
but they don't need to know what
it means so what good is it?"
00:35:02.43\00:35:04.13
That's what he told...
00:35:04.17\00:35:05.50
and we had a Muslim old man
tell us... he was a Publisher,
00:35:05.53\00:35:07.87
those are the kinds of insights,
00:35:07.90\00:35:09.67
another Muslim
told me once, he said,
00:35:09.70\00:35:11.41
"We have learned and we
accept that the Qur'an came
00:35:11.44\00:35:15.61
as a revelation from
God, who can argue with God?
00:35:15.64\00:35:19.75
That's why we just read it
and we have to accept it. "
00:35:19.78\00:35:22.12
Once that Muslim told
me that... I realized...
00:35:22.15\00:35:25.29
"Well, I can get
away using the Qur'an
00:35:25.32\00:35:27.16
without the Muslim
saying anything to me... "
00:35:27.19\00:35:28.92
once I learned that concept,
it's opened up the whole door.
00:35:28.99\00:35:32.23
A Muslim can never say, "Oh,
the Qur'an doesn't mean that. "
00:35:32.26\00:35:35.46
Now, what they'll say is,
00:35:35.53\00:35:36.87
"You have taken
it out of context"
00:35:36.90\00:35:38.23
or "You have to read
it in the Arabic script"
00:35:38.27\00:35:40.70
now, when a
Muslim tells me that...
00:35:40.74\00:35:42.47
I smile at them and
say, I smile and say,
00:35:42.50\00:35:45.14
"Gallup did a poll
a few years ago... "
00:35:45.17\00:35:47.78
and I said, it
was interesting...
00:35:47.81\00:35:49.14
and I said, "You know it's found
that only 18 percent of Islam
00:35:49.18\00:35:52.05
can read and write Arabic"
00:35:52.08\00:35:53.42
I said, "Allah is going
to have mercy on my soul"
00:35:53.45\00:35:56.28
and I smile and that's
all the further I go...
00:35:56.32\00:35:59.29
and they never push
it further, never...
00:35:59.32\00:36:01.62
So there's never a
question of interpretation,
00:36:01.66\00:36:06.29
like, they don't say... when you
quote a verse from the Qur'an,
00:36:06.33\00:36:12.00
for example, they don't
say, "Well, it means this...
00:36:12.03\00:36:17.64
it has another meaning... "
00:36:17.67\00:36:19.47
they just take it as
face value and that's it.
00:36:19.51\00:36:22.08
That's close, but
what they will say,
00:36:22.11\00:36:24.28
"You need to read it in Arabic"
they'll throw that at you
00:36:24.31\00:36:28.08
and that's what...
00:36:28.12\00:36:29.45
But they can't read it in
Arabic... many of them, right?
00:36:29.48\00:36:30.82
Most of them can't...
yeah... Yvonne: Okay...
00:36:30.85\00:36:32.19
They can recite it
to try to trick you,
00:36:32.22\00:36:34.12
not unless you meet an Arab...
00:36:34.16\00:36:36.39
then they can handle it.
00:36:36.42\00:36:38.33
Yvonne: Right... right...
00:36:38.39\00:36:40.23
Jason: That's their way
of getting around the issue.
00:36:40.30\00:36:41.63
Okay, so, what...
what kinds of breakthroughs
00:36:41.66\00:36:46.77
have you had with
establishing the rapport
00:36:46.80\00:36:50.07
and then letting them...
well, before I go there...
00:36:50.11\00:36:54.68
how do you then let them
know about Jesus and His death
00:36:54.71\00:36:58.85
and resurrection because
they don't believe in the cross,
00:36:58.88\00:37:03.02
right? so how do
you... or do they? tell us.
00:37:03.05\00:37:06.62
Well, Number
one... no, they don't...
00:37:06.65\00:37:08.19
but their Qur'an says different.
00:37:08.22\00:37:10.43
Yvonne: Ah...
00:37:10.49\00:37:12.13
Stephen: In Surah 37...
and this was a result of
00:37:12.16\00:37:16.33
getting into this...
the Newspaper interview
00:37:16.36\00:37:20.47
that I just earlier... mentioned
that we had the next day,
00:37:20.50\00:37:23.57
we went into this man's office,
00:37:23.61\00:37:25.64
myself and my
friend Asif who was a Turk
00:37:25.67\00:37:29.94
and he could speak Arabic
as well as Turkish and English
00:37:29.98\00:37:34.42
and so... we went
in there and we...
00:37:34.45\00:37:37.65
this newspaper publisher in
English communicated with me
00:37:37.69\00:37:41.59
and he said, basically,
and I was very disappointed
00:37:41.62\00:37:44.36
because he didn't...
he wasn't taking notes
00:37:44.39\00:37:45.73
and he didn't
have a recorder out...
00:37:45.76\00:37:47.10
I said, "This is a waste of time
00:37:47.13\00:37:48.46
I've never been to a newspaper
they're not taking notes... "
00:37:48.50\00:37:50.67
and he said, "Would
you write an article
00:37:50.70\00:37:53.94
in our Newspaper every week... "
00:37:53.97\00:37:55.47
he said, "that shows what
00:37:55.50\00:37:57.34
Seventh-day Adventists believe
and about the Second Coming?"
00:37:57.37\00:37:59.91
Well, what are you going to
say? "Let me pray about it?"
00:37:59.94\00:38:02.44
No, we said "Yes,
we could do that. "
00:38:02.48\00:38:04.41
And I'm sitting
there just in afterglow,
00:38:04.45\00:38:06.41
I'm thinking...
"Wow, wow... I got to... "
00:38:06.45\00:38:08.38
I like to scream...
00:38:08.42\00:38:09.75
So you can't show any
emotion, well, so this time,
00:38:09.78\00:38:14.96
I'm sitting there
just in afterglow...
00:38:14.99\00:38:16.42
and he's speaking to Asif
00:38:16.46\00:38:18.63
in Turkish and
English and back and forth
00:38:18.66\00:38:21.16
and I'm processing in my mind
00:38:21.20\00:38:23.26
"What am I going to
write, what am I going to write?
00:38:23.30\00:38:25.07
I'm processing
this as quickly as I can
00:38:25.10\00:38:27.80
I said, "We got to
talk about Jesus... "
00:38:27.84\00:38:29.67
so I said, "Well,
I've got to get the... "
00:38:29.70\00:38:31.51
I kind of raised my
hand like a First Grader,
00:38:31.54\00:38:33.31
got his attention, and I
said, "You know, I think there's
00:38:33.34\00:38:36.08
something you
need to understand... "
00:38:36.11\00:38:37.78
and I said, "You
know, when I write,
00:38:37.81\00:38:39.31
I've got to talk about Jesus, so
I know how Islam looks at Jesus"
00:38:39.35\00:38:42.82
and so he's
listening... and I went to...
00:38:42.85\00:38:47.96
I referred to
the Qur'an Surah 37,
00:38:47.99\00:38:50.63
I said, "You know the sacrifice
that's written in the Qur'an
00:38:50.66\00:38:53.56
about Abraham and his son... "
00:38:53.60\00:38:55.90
now Viewers... just think...
I said, "Abraham and his son"
00:38:55.96\00:38:59.17
I didn't say what son it was
so when you talk to a Muslim...
00:38:59.20\00:39:02.40
Stephen: That's not the issue,
it's the issue is the sacrifice
00:39:02.44\00:39:05.61
and so I said, "You
know, that sacrifice...
00:39:05.64\00:39:07.64
in the Qur'an it says that
it was a momentous sacrifice"
00:39:07.68\00:39:11.65
and I said, "that was
not just a regular sheep,
00:39:11.68\00:39:17.12
this was something special... "
00:39:17.15\00:39:19.22
when I made that emphasis,
00:39:19.25\00:39:21.06
Asif is sitting
over here to my right
00:39:21.09\00:39:24.13
he now starts to
pick up the conversation
00:39:24.16\00:39:27.16
and he speaks to the Publisher.
00:39:27.20\00:39:29.10
Yvonne: Is Asif a Christian?
00:39:29.13\00:39:30.87
Asif is a follower of Jesus,
00:39:30.90\00:39:32.57
yes, he's the one
that wrote the book
00:39:32.60\00:39:34.24
about finding Jesus as a Muslim,
00:39:34.27\00:39:36.40
and that's... this one
here we showed you that one...
00:39:36.44\00:39:39.81
so, anyway he started to
take over the conversation
00:39:39.84\00:39:43.18
and he said, "Can
we speak in Arabic?"
00:39:43.24\00:39:44.81
And I said, "Go ahead... "
00:39:44.85\00:39:46.55
All of a sudden I'm...
and I didn't think about this
00:39:46.58\00:39:49.98
for like, six or
seven months later,
00:39:50.02\00:39:52.19
I'm now understanding in English
what they're saying in Arabic.
00:39:52.22\00:39:55.66
I didn't realize it for...
like I said... 6 or 7 months.
00:39:55.69\00:39:59.39
So the Holy Spirit kind of
gave you the gift of tongues
00:39:59.43\00:40:02.96
of the
interpretation... yes... wow!
00:40:03.03\00:40:05.07
and so, I'm listening
to this... and Asif says,
00:40:05.10\00:40:11.97
"You know, in Arabic...
00:40:12.01\00:40:14.08
the momentous
sacrifice means Azim... "
00:40:14.11\00:40:16.85
and I'm listening...
and he says, "You know,
00:40:16.88\00:40:20.75
Azim is one of the 99
names for God in the Qur'an
00:40:20.78\00:40:24.59
so the momentous sacrifice was
a figure of God being sacrificed
00:40:24.62\00:40:30.39
and this Muslim guy was
like... he processes it...
00:40:30.43\00:40:35.06
and he's going like
this... Azim and then he says,
00:40:35.13\00:40:39.73
"You're right... you're right"
00:40:39.77\00:40:42.84
and Asif says, "The
Qur'an talks about the
00:40:42.87\00:40:45.61
sacrifice... it's in the
Qur'an, it's right here...
00:40:45.64\00:40:48.04
and it says, His name is Azim
00:40:48.11\00:40:49.64
which is one of
the 99 names for God"
00:40:49.71\00:40:51.85
and so, when I
heard this I said,
00:40:51.91\00:40:54.02
"This was discussed between two
Arabs in less than 3 minutes"
00:40:54.05\00:40:59.95
I said, "How come no one's
ever figured this out before?"
00:40:59.99\00:41:05.09
Hmmm...
00:41:05.13\00:41:06.90
And so, once we understood
that, now, the young man...
00:41:06.93\00:41:11.97
it's a long, long story
here, he's now working for us...
00:41:12.00\00:41:17.04
the Newspaper
Publisher... over there
00:41:17.07\00:41:19.71
and doing
translation work for us...
00:41:19.77\00:41:22.38
and has
submitted his life to God.
00:41:22.41\00:41:26.01
Yvonne: Praise the Lord...
00:41:26.08\00:41:27.42
But what we found is a highway
to a Muslim's heart for Jesus...
00:41:27.45\00:41:32.32
and to share that with
Seventh-day Adventists...
00:41:32.35\00:41:34.76
they think we're all lunatics.
00:41:34.79\00:41:36.12
They tell us the Qur'an is
evil and all these things...
00:41:36.16\00:41:39.49
what can be evil when it says,
00:41:39.53\00:41:41.46
"Jesus received the
gift of righteousness... "
00:41:41.50\00:41:43.26
or that... "Jesus
is the Word of God... "
00:41:43.30\00:41:45.37
or that... or that the
Qur'an is saying, "Go back... "
00:41:45.40\00:41:47.87
you know there are
four verses in the Qur'an
00:41:47.90\00:41:49.87
that talk about the
Sabbath... they condemn...
00:41:49.90\00:41:51.84
all four verses
condemn Sabbath breakers.
00:41:51.87\00:41:53.84
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:41:53.88\00:41:55.21
So, I mean, those are
the kinds of things that...
00:41:55.24\00:41:56.71
Yvonne: And the assumption
is that the Sabbath is
00:41:56.75\00:41:58.25
the Seventh-day
Sabbath that we...
00:41:58.28\00:42:00.38
Stephen: Sabbath is Sabbath...
Yvonne: The Biblical...
00:42:00.42\00:42:01.75
Stephen: Yeah,
yeah... Yvonne: Okay...
00:42:01.78\00:42:03.12
Stephen: Those are the
kinds of things we found...
00:42:03.15\00:42:06.15
it's kind of like the
people who've got the leprosy...
00:42:06.19\00:42:08.86
they're up there
beating on the door and saying,
00:42:08.89\00:42:10.23
"Hey, you got to go
out here and look...
00:42:10.26\00:42:11.59
all the stuff's out here... "
00:42:11.63\00:42:12.96
People just find
this so hard to believe
00:42:12.99\00:42:15.40
but if we can get
them on the street,
00:42:15.43\00:42:18.10
Jason can take them...
they see... it's there.
00:42:18.13\00:42:20.87
So, what you're doing then is...
you're establishing rapport...
00:42:20.90\00:42:25.71
you're quoting from the
Qur'an and you're trying to...
00:42:25.77\00:42:30.31
you also show them who
Jesus is from the Qur'an.
00:42:30.35\00:42:34.52
Stephen: Yes.
00:42:34.55\00:42:35.88
That way you're
starting from a place
00:42:35.92\00:42:39.29
that they can identify
with and that they validate...
00:42:39.32\00:42:43.86
they validate the Qur'an
00:42:43.93\00:42:45.36
and you validate the
Qur'an in a certain way
00:42:45.39\00:42:49.26
because it seems
like, you guys are saying,
00:42:49.30\00:42:53.10
these are the elements
of truth here... found here.
00:42:53.13\00:42:56.87
I want to make this clear
because this is going out,
00:42:56.91\00:42:59.97
we're not saying that we
leave them with the Qur'an
00:43:00.01\00:43:03.28
because in Matthew 6:33...
00:43:03.31\00:43:06.28
"Seek ye first the kingdom of
God and His righteousness... "
00:43:06.31\00:43:08.38
we teach the
concept of righteousness,
00:43:08.42\00:43:10.79
that's why "Jesus received
that gift of righteousness... "
00:43:10.85\00:43:13.32
because if you
and I as a human being
00:43:13.36\00:43:16.69
don't have that same
gift of righteousness,
00:43:16.73\00:43:18.66
of what the Bible says...
there's no hope for anybody
00:43:18.69\00:43:21.23
because we want to point
them to the second coming
00:43:21.26\00:43:24.47
and one of the things when I did
my research in looking, I found,
00:43:24.50\00:43:28.47
"How come all those
Millerite believers got along?"
00:43:28.50\00:43:31.14
They were Methodists,
Baptists, Presbyterians...
00:43:31.17\00:43:33.94
they didn't quarrel...
they were perfectly united,
00:43:33.98\00:43:36.61
they reason they were...
00:43:36.64\00:43:38.18
they were focused
upon Jesus' soon return...
00:43:38.21\00:43:40.62
and character development... the
power of the in-dwelling Christ.
00:43:40.65\00:43:43.89
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:43:43.92\00:43:45.25
And so we've taken
that same principle
00:43:45.29\00:43:46.69
and put it into
working with Islam
00:43:46.72\00:43:48.32
and it always works...
00:43:48.36\00:43:50.16
I mean, it comes
quickly with Muslims.
00:43:50.23\00:43:53.23
Is the Second
Coming in the Qur'an?
00:43:53.26\00:43:56.23
Stephen: No... Yvonne: Okay...
00:43:56.26\00:43:59.13
Stephen: But there's a
judgment that if your sins go...
00:43:59.17\00:44:01.74
if your sins have not
gone to judgment first,
00:44:01.77\00:44:05.31
then you're
going to go to hell...
00:44:05.34\00:44:06.68
Those are the kinds of
the verses we see there,
00:44:06.71\00:44:08.48
they don't allude to it
but you look at other verses...
00:44:08.51\00:44:11.38
the person who
wrote the Qur'an...
00:44:11.41\00:44:15.78
and I'm picking my
words carefully here
00:44:15.82\00:44:17.69
or put it together or whatever,
00:44:17.72\00:44:19.35
is referring... "If
you don't believe me
00:44:19.39\00:44:21.82
go back and look at the
Bible or look at the Book. "
00:44:21.86\00:44:24.19
They refer to the Bible
constantly in the Qur'an.
00:44:24.23\00:44:26.49
So the Scriptures are known
as "the Book" in the Qur'an.
00:44:26.53\00:44:32.00
Stephen: Yes... yes...
00:44:32.03\00:44:33.37
The Qur'an... it talks about the
last day and the resurrection
00:44:33.40\00:44:36.04
but it won't go into great
details like the Bible would
00:44:36.07\00:44:38.77
about the Second Coming of Jesus
00:44:38.81\00:44:40.38
or go into the fine details...
00:44:40.41\00:44:44.15
Hmmm... hmmm... so,
some of the people that...
00:44:44.18\00:44:47.92
because our Viewers love
stories... some of the people...
00:44:47.95\00:44:50.65
did the Muslims that you
have approached with this...
00:44:50.69\00:44:53.39
do many of them see
the validity of Christ...
00:44:53.42\00:44:57.99
do they then... does it
then kind of propel them
00:44:58.03\00:45:01.90
into their own
search... are they searching...
00:45:01.93\00:45:04.93
like where are some
of the people that you...
00:45:05.00\00:45:07.97
you've brought this message to?
00:45:08.00\00:45:10.34
Well, the young man
that wrote this book,
00:45:10.37\00:45:13.61
it took him eight years
from the time he stumbled across
00:45:13.64\00:45:16.95
who Seventh-day Adventists
are till he made a decision.
00:45:16.98\00:45:21.72
I have not seen a lot of
Muslims take it upon themselves
00:45:21.75\00:45:26.45
to do detailed
study and research.
00:45:26.52\00:45:28.69
That's one of the things that
I struggle with a little bit,
00:45:28.72\00:45:32.86
spoon-feeding is one thing
but you've got to have people
00:45:32.89\00:45:37.40
who are self-starters...
and... but I have found that...
00:45:37.43\00:45:41.90
that the Muslims who are seeking
00:45:41.94\00:45:43.51
are wanting to know more.
00:45:43.54\00:45:45.27
We've got a group right
now in a Middle East Country...
00:45:45.31\00:45:47.24
I went to a wedding celebration
00:45:47.28\00:45:49.28
and one of the
relatives came up to me...
00:45:49.31\00:45:51.55
I'm sitting at the table
00:45:51.61\00:45:53.28
and the Newspaper
Publisher is sitting next to me
00:45:53.31\00:45:57.65
and they're speaking to me...
00:45:57.69\00:45:59.19
and they're going through
a translator... she says,
00:45:59.22\00:46:00.72
"Can you come out
and dance with me?"
00:46:00.76\00:46:02.36
Now, this was
just line dancing...
00:46:02.39\00:46:03.93
and I don't know
why I gave this answer
00:46:03.96\00:46:09.36
but I'm thankful I did,
00:46:09.40\00:46:10.87
I looked at her and I said,
"You are another man's wife
00:46:10.90\00:46:15.90
and I'm not to touch you"
00:46:15.94\00:46:17.51
And she pulled
back on me like this...
00:46:17.57\00:46:21.34
kind of... the facial
expression was serious
00:46:21.41\00:46:24.21
then she leaned forward
with a smile and she says,
00:46:24.25\00:46:27.05
"That's the way
it's supposed to be... "
00:46:27.08\00:46:30.39
Now, the next day
when the wedding was over,
00:46:30.42\00:46:33.66
she went and told the
whole family of what I had said,
00:46:33.69\00:46:38.09
now we have the
opportunity to go back
00:46:38.13\00:46:41.33
and do an Evangelistic
Effort for the whole family
00:46:41.36\00:46:44.40
which is close to 60
people because of what I'd said
00:46:44.43\00:46:47.40
because now I'm trustworthy and
those are the kinds of things
00:46:47.44\00:46:51.67
we start to see opening up
00:46:51.71\00:46:53.04
and there are so many things
opening that we see happening
00:46:53.07\00:46:57.15
because what we have all found,
00:46:57.18\00:46:59.21
before we got there, the
Holy Spirit beat us to it.
00:46:59.25\00:47:01.38
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:47:01.42\00:47:02.75
It's the Holy Spirit
that's leading these people
00:47:02.78\00:47:04.45
and we need more
Seventh-day Adventists
00:47:04.52\00:47:06.45
that can catch the
vision and not the argument...
00:47:06.52\00:47:09.39
but catch the vision...
00:47:09.42\00:47:10.76
Yvonne: Yes... to minister
to the Muslim Community.
00:47:10.79\00:47:16.93
Yeah, I had Jason...
00:47:16.97\00:47:18.33
Jason is seeing somebody on the
streets that became a follower
00:47:18.37\00:47:21.67
became a
Seventh-day Adventist, a Muslim.
00:47:21.70\00:47:24.11
Yvonne: Ah! Tell us Jason.
00:47:24.14\00:47:25.47
Jason: We got a
young... oh, let me go back...
00:47:25.51\00:47:29.58
it goes back to the
time I was visiting the
00:47:29.61\00:47:31.51
Seventh-day Adventist
Church and one Sabbath...
00:47:31.55\00:47:33.45
Yvonne: Was this in New York?
00:47:33.48\00:47:35.15
This was in New York City yeah,
00:47:35.18\00:47:36.79
there was an old gentleman
there by the name of George...
00:47:36.82\00:47:38.69
and George... he
told me this story...
00:47:38.72\00:47:41.99
he finds out that I'm
trying to share with Muslims,
00:47:42.02\00:47:44.69
he says, "Jason, I need
help, what can I give a Muslim?"
00:47:44.73\00:47:49.06
He says, "I live
underneath a Mosque... "
00:47:49.10\00:47:51.60
he says, "These people pray all
the time, I hear their prayers,"
00:47:51.63\00:47:54.87
he says, "It's disturbing to
me but why won't I help them?"
00:47:54.90\00:47:57.51
And I didn't have much on
me but I had the 1850 chart
00:47:57.54\00:48:01.11
that Steve mentioned earlier,
so I gave him that chart
00:48:01.14\00:48:04.78
and George took
this chart back...
00:48:04.81\00:48:06.18
Now, what's on that chart?
00:48:06.21\00:48:07.58
It talks about
the Daniel 2 image,
00:48:07.62\00:48:09.88
and it's got Revelation 13,
it's got the 3 Angels' message,
00:48:09.92\00:48:14.29
the Sanctuary and on
the right-hand side there
00:48:14.32\00:48:17.53
it's got the
fifth and sixth trumpet
00:48:17.56\00:48:19.63
dealing with the war
between Catholicism and Islam
00:48:19.66\00:48:23.26
and so I gave him that chart
00:48:23.30\00:48:25.93
and he gave that
to that Muslim man...
00:48:25.97\00:48:27.84
the man liked the
chart, he eventually says,
00:48:27.87\00:48:30.27
"I want to start
coming to your church... "
00:48:30.31\00:48:33.14
so he started
coming to the local church
00:48:33.17\00:48:35.61
and became a
baptized Seventh-day Adventist
00:48:35.64\00:48:37.98
off that chart... and so
00:48:38.01\00:48:41.05
so God's working in many ways...
00:48:41.08\00:48:43.05
I'll tell another story
we had down south there...
00:48:43.08\00:48:44.89
we approached an Imam as
something we can share with
00:48:44.95\00:48:48.16
to a little bit
about Isaiah chapter 60
00:48:48.19\00:48:50.09
that talks about
the Muslims specifically
00:48:50.13\00:48:51.96
and we visited this Imam...
two other friends and myself,
00:48:51.99\00:48:55.50
Yvonne: For those who don't
know what an Imam is... explain.
00:48:55.56\00:48:59.03
An Imam is like a
pastor or a teacher
00:48:59.07\00:49:01.20
someone that's within
the authority of teaching
00:49:01.24\00:49:04.64
within their congregation.
00:49:04.67\00:49:06.84
Stephen: It's lower than
a Sheik Yvonne: Okay, okay.
00:49:06.88\00:49:09.38
Anyways, we share with him that
we're Seventh-day Adventists
00:49:09.41\00:49:13.68
a little bit of
what we had in common.
00:49:13.72\00:49:15.18
I said, "I'd like
to share with you that
00:49:15.22\00:49:18.19
Isaiah chapter 60
talks about the Muslims
00:49:18.22\00:49:21.29
entering heaven...
Jannah... Paradise...
00:49:21.32\00:49:24.36
I says, "I want to
share that with you because
00:49:24.39\00:49:26.46
because most Christians say
you're all going to hell... "
00:49:26.49\00:49:28.53
I says, "I want to
give you some hope"
00:49:28.56\00:49:29.90
so we shared that with
him and some other things
00:49:29.93\00:49:32.70
and here's what he said,
00:49:32.73\00:49:34.37
he said, "I've
been waiting 25 years
00:49:34.40\00:49:36.94
to meet a group
of people like you,"
00:49:36.97\00:49:39.44
he says the Qur'an talks
about the people... the Book...
00:49:39.47\00:49:41.84
he says, "I've been
waiting 25 years... "
00:49:41.88\00:49:44.41
he says, "I never knew
that these people were alive"
00:49:44.45\00:49:46.61
he said, "I always
thought it was for the past... "
00:49:46.65\00:49:48.52
he says, "I had no
idea it was for now"
00:49:48.55\00:49:50.85
yeah, and so that's an Imam that
we've become good friends with
00:49:50.89\00:49:54.96
and we meet a lot of Muslims
that have a lot of interest,
00:49:54.99\00:50:00.86
sometimes you're
open to go further
00:50:00.90\00:50:03.37
but when we look
back at Bible History,
00:50:03.40\00:50:05.77
we see that God was
always preparing a people
00:50:05.80\00:50:08.54
before... before...
and we look at the loud cry
00:50:08.57\00:50:11.24
and the things to
happen in the future
00:50:11.27\00:50:12.94
when you look at the
Bible, it talks about the...
00:50:12.97\00:50:16.21
there will be branches
that will be broken off,
00:50:16.24\00:50:19.41
others will be grafted in,
00:50:19.45\00:50:20.92
in order for
someone to be grafted in,
00:50:20.95\00:50:23.79
that means, you can't just take
a seed and graft it to the tree,
00:50:23.82\00:50:26.89
that means that has
to have some growth on it
00:50:26.92\00:50:29.86
before it can be grafted in
00:50:29.89\00:50:31.63
and I'm going to
suggest that the Muslims
00:50:31.66\00:50:34.76
God is growing
them where they're at
00:50:34.83\00:50:37.43
and preparing them and
sometime in the near future
00:50:37.47\00:50:40.84
He's going to graft them in.
00:50:40.87\00:50:42.20
Stephen: Amen. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:50:42.24\00:50:43.57
Yeah, and so if
we could be patient
00:50:43.61\00:50:46.21
and look at the life of Jesus
as He was there on that cross,
00:50:46.24\00:50:50.55
everyone fled... but
look at how many days later
00:50:50.58\00:50:53.98
then all of a
sudden... it erupted...
00:50:54.02\00:50:56.48
and there were all
kinds of followers... opened
00:50:56.55\00:50:59.35
and it just spread and took off
00:50:59.39\00:51:01.22
and so, when we
look at Isaiah 60...
00:51:01.26\00:51:04.39
Isaiah 11:11... God has
a promise for these people
00:51:04.43\00:51:08.70
which you as a
Seventh-day Adventist
00:51:08.73\00:51:10.53
and a Muslim
that may be listening,
00:51:10.57\00:51:12.23
it talks about us
coming together as a people
00:51:12.27\00:51:16.44
and just like Isaac and
Ishmael both buried Abraham...
00:51:16.50\00:51:22.01
Abraham prayed for both his sons
00:51:22.04\00:51:25.31
and we get to be a part
of that answered prayer...
00:51:25.35\00:51:28.38
Stephen: Amen
00:51:28.42\00:51:29.75
Yvonne: Hmmm...
that's beautiful so...
00:51:29.78\00:51:31.25
we really do have a mission
to achieve with the Muslims,
00:51:31.29\00:51:39.33
we really do...
we have a message...
00:51:39.36\00:51:41.26
we have a mission...
00:51:41.33\00:51:42.73
and anybody that's
really seeking truth...
00:51:42.76\00:51:46.74
the Holy Spirit...
00:51:46.77\00:51:48.74
that's His job... to
guide them into all truth
00:51:48.77\00:51:51.37
would you not agree with that?
00:51:51.41\00:51:52.91
Stephen: Oh yes.
Jason: I agree...
00:51:52.94\00:51:54.41
If I could share one thing,
00:51:54.44\00:51:56.81
Ellen White speaks in
the Book Prophets and Kings
00:51:56.85\00:52:00.08
Hope for the Heathen, page 374,
00:52:00.12\00:52:03.02
she talks about
Isaiah chapter 60
00:52:03.05\00:52:05.85
and she says
that these prophecies
00:52:05.89\00:52:09.06
are being brought
forth in fulfillment in today
00:52:09.09\00:52:12.29
and then she says,
00:52:12.33\00:52:13.66
"This is the
church's appointed work... "
00:52:13.70\00:52:15.66
so that means, God has
given the Seventh-day Adventists
00:52:15.70\00:52:20.50
appointed work
as Isaiah chapter 60
00:52:20.54\00:52:23.61
and that's specifically to
share with the Muslim people.
00:52:23.64\00:52:26.68
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:52:26.71\00:52:28.04
One of the things,
in Turkey we found...
00:52:28.08\00:52:30.05
as I was sharing this for
22 minutes... that information,
00:52:30.08\00:52:34.08
we get through... and after they
do all these things, they say,
00:52:34.12\00:52:38.35
"We had a prophet... "
they didn't say, "a prophet"
00:52:38.39\00:52:41.66
"we had a visionary... "
or whatever... in the 1920s...
00:52:41.72\00:52:44.96
that said... there was
to be a group of Christians
00:52:44.99\00:52:47.73
that came to Turkey
00:52:47.76\00:52:49.10
that had the truth for
this hour about Jesus...
00:52:49.13\00:52:51.43
and he said, "we think
you Seventh-day Adventists...
00:52:51.47\00:52:54.10
from what you said
here... are those people"
00:52:54.14\00:52:56.34
and people can look
that up on the internet...
00:52:56.37\00:52:58.54
write down the
word, Said Nursi...
00:52:58.57\00:53:03.95
and then you read about that,
00:53:04.01\00:53:05.35
when they said
that, you realize that
00:53:05.38\00:53:07.88
this isn't just
Adventist Evangelism,
00:53:07.92\00:53:10.42
this is God
working and we're His...
00:53:10.49\00:53:12.92
we have the opportunity to be
His workers in these fields...
00:53:12.95\00:53:16.36
and to get people to listen
to this story... is rare...
00:53:16.42\00:53:19.89
people just don't want to hear
this because... "those Muslims,
00:53:19.93\00:53:21.93
you know what they do...
da... da... da... da... "
00:53:21.96\00:53:23.47
I really don't care what they
do they need to hear the gospel.
00:53:23.53\00:53:26.77
Yvonne: That's
right... that's right...
00:53:26.80\00:53:28.30
it has to go to every nation,
kindred, tongue and people
00:53:28.34\00:53:32.57
and we are to cry
aloud and spare not...
00:53:32.61\00:53:36.11
so we have to give
the gospel to everyone
00:53:36.14\00:53:39.58
and I just believe
that some of the information
00:53:39.61\00:53:43.75
that you've given us today
is just information that...
00:53:43.79\00:53:47.42
if someone has a
desire to minister to Muslims,
00:53:47.46\00:53:51.33
you're giving us a real
ground for... kind of...
00:53:51.36\00:53:55.23
where-do-you-start place
00:53:55.26\00:53:56.77
and I appreciate
that so much... like...
00:53:56.80\00:53:59.43
tell... just give
us if you would...
00:53:59.47\00:54:02.00
a few steps in these
last minutes that we have
00:54:02.04\00:54:05.57
a few steps like...
establish rapport...
00:54:05.61\00:54:08.14
what are some of the steps
in ministering to Muslim people?
00:54:08.21\00:54:13.01
Jason, give the greeting again
00:54:13.05\00:54:14.52
and explain that
because that is the key.
00:54:14.55\00:54:16.18
The greeting is when
you visit with a Muslim,
00:54:16.22\00:54:18.35
you want to say, Salaam-Alaikum
00:54:18.39\00:54:19.85
means, "May God's
peace be upon you"
00:54:19.89\00:54:22.66
and the Muslim will open
up right then and there...
00:54:22.69\00:54:26.06
that's already
the entering wedge...
00:54:26.09\00:54:29.10
it's like us coming
together and saying,
00:54:29.13\00:54:31.87
"Happy Blessed Sabbath"
00:54:31.93\00:54:33.27
you already know it's a brother
and someone that's kind to you.
00:54:33.30\00:54:36.91
Now, if they
forget what he just said
00:54:36.97\00:54:38.64
and the pronunciation
is on... go to Google...
00:54:38.67\00:54:40.61
and type in
Muslim greeting... search
00:54:40.64\00:54:44.08
and you get it right
there. Yvonne: Great.
00:54:44.11\00:54:45.65
Jason: Or you can
just say, "Salaam... "
00:54:45.68\00:54:47.08
and they will know what
that means... "Salaam... "
00:54:47.12\00:54:49.88
Yeah because people get
like... A-Salaam-Alaikum...
00:54:49.92\00:54:52.72
and then Wa-Alaikum-Salaam and
all that stuff, all mixed up.
00:54:52.75\00:54:54.69
Yeah, if you say that wrong,
00:54:54.72\00:54:56.06
they'll correct you and smile
about it. Yvonne: Oh they will?
00:54:56.09\00:54:57.73
Yeah, they're still
happy, they don't care.
00:54:57.76\00:54:59.19
Yvonne: Okay.
00:54:59.23\00:55:00.56
They've never been
spoken to kindly by a Christian,
00:55:00.60\00:55:02.16
it's that easy... never argue.
00:55:02.20\00:55:05.57
We forget to show love, like,
00:55:05.60\00:55:08.77
the whole idea is to show love
00:55:08.80\00:55:11.07
so that we can have
a... establish a rapport...
00:55:11.11\00:55:14.01
so the greeting... okay...
00:55:14.04\00:55:16.54
And then, you know, if
anything ever should come up,
00:55:16.58\00:55:19.95
you never want to argue,
00:55:19.98\00:55:21.32
remember, debating
never wins a heart... ever,
00:55:21.35\00:55:24.85
it never wins...
you can say something,
00:55:24.89\00:55:27.96
if they want to disagree,
just leave it be then...
00:55:27.99\00:55:30.26
don't talk it anymore,
don't keep pushing the envelope
00:55:30.29\00:55:32.53
but have them
over to your homes,
00:55:32.56\00:55:35.83
have them...
invite them over to eat,
00:55:35.86\00:55:39.03
find a place that's...
00:55:39.10\00:55:40.67
where they could eat
where there's no pork...
00:55:40.70\00:55:43.30
mention you don't eat
pork... that's crucial...
00:55:43.34\00:55:45.84
Well, that works
for us too, so...
00:55:45.87\00:55:47.61
Stephen: That's very true.
00:55:47.64\00:55:49.48
Jason: And most
Muslims, they look at Christians
00:55:49.51\00:55:51.35
and Christians say,
00:55:51.41\00:55:52.75
"I can do whatever I
want and I'm still saved... "
00:55:52.78\00:55:55.78
and when they see you as someone
that's actually following Jesus,
00:55:55.82\00:56:00.56
they will see
something different about you,
00:56:00.59\00:56:03.49
ask them questions
about their books...
00:56:03.53\00:56:06.16
ask them questions
about their family,
00:56:06.19\00:56:08.86
get to know them a
little more personally.
00:56:08.90\00:56:11.53
And we talk about this because
00:56:11.57\00:56:15.07
it's not about rules,
regulations and keeping the Law,
00:56:15.10\00:56:18.97
it's about the
indwelling Christ...
00:56:19.01\00:56:21.81
a Muslim gets
it... Christians don't...
00:56:21.84\00:56:24.28
they struggle with
that, a Muslim gets it.
00:56:24.31\00:56:26.68
Really? Why do you
think... why do you think so?
00:56:26.72\00:56:30.12
Because the Quran says,
00:56:30.15\00:56:31.95
"Jesus received the
gift of righteousness"
00:56:31.99\00:56:34.06
they can't... they don't know
how to go through the judgment,
00:56:34.09\00:56:36.66
that's why they go to the
fast... the 30 days Ramadan
00:56:36.69\00:56:40.70
I said, "This is the
way... Jesus was on this earth
00:56:40.73\00:56:44.67
as a human being and
He walked the walk...
00:56:44.70\00:56:46.67
He showed... because
your Qur'an says that
00:56:46.70\00:56:48.50
He's the nearest
to God in heaven,
00:56:48.54\00:56:50.27
and if He had received
the gift of righteousness,
00:56:50.31\00:56:52.87
you and I need the
same gift of righteousness
00:56:52.94\00:56:55.51
so we can be nearest to God too.
00:56:55.54\00:56:57.68
Nice... nice...
00:56:57.71\00:56:59.61
Don't say too much...
we've been very short here
00:56:59.65\00:57:02.98
and be just as
short with a Muslim.
00:57:03.02\00:57:04.42
Wooo... you guys have given
us some incredible information
00:57:04.45\00:57:08.82
thank you so much...
thank you for all you're doing,
00:57:08.86\00:57:11.13
for your hard
work... your diligence...
00:57:11.16\00:57:13.36
the way you have kind of
zeroed in on what we need to do
00:57:13.40\00:57:17.30
and the steps to
establishing rapport...
00:57:17.33\00:57:20.04
we thank you and we
really appreciate all you do,
00:57:20.07\00:57:23.10
we have your websites,
we'll put up your websites
00:57:23.14\00:57:26.17
so that Viewers can
get in touch with you
00:57:26.21\00:57:28.64
because maybe some
people want to get involved
00:57:28.68\00:57:30.91
and you should get involved
00:57:30.95\00:57:32.81
and thank you so
much for being with us...
00:57:32.85\00:57:36.38
what a blessing... and I
pray that you will really
00:57:36.45\00:57:41.66
get connected... get
connected to some ministry,
00:57:41.69\00:57:45.46
if you don't feel
called to do Muslim Ministry,
00:57:45.49\00:57:48.73
get connected to some
ministry, time is short...
00:57:48.76\00:57:51.97
Jesus is coming...
we have to be ready...
00:57:52.00\00:57:54.54
well, we've reached the
end of another program...
00:57:54.57\00:57:56.94
join us next time...
because you know what?
00:57:57.01\00:57:59.64
It just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:57:59.67\00:58:01.84