Are you spiritually depressed?
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Stressed out
with nowhere to turn?
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Well, stay tuned to meet a man
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that can give you some answers.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello, and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guest today is
Dr. H. Jean Wright II,
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a highly experienced,
professionally trained,
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clinical and
forensic psychologist.
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He's currently
serving as an administrator
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for the city of Philadelphia
and he's an adjunct professor
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for Temple University's
Department of Psychology.
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Dr. Wright
recently completed his book
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''Find Strength
in your Struggle,''
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discover the miracle in you,
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which highlights his
concept of spiritual depression
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and its impact on
the spiritual core
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of individuals
from all walks of life.
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Welcome to Urban
Report, Dr. Wright.
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Thank you very
much. Glad to be here.
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It is so great to have you here.
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I started reading your
book and I'm just so impressed
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by how you have combined
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science with the Bible
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and you make the
Bible so relevant.
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And that's what
I always love that,
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specially in
medicine, in psychology
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where it tends to be so secular
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and yet you've been
able to bring the Bible
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and I want to
talk more about that
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little bit later but first...
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First of all, I'm
glad to hear that.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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But I want our
viewers to get to know you
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a little bit better.
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Tell us a little
bit about your journey
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and some of your struggles
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because this book
is a bout struggles.
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Let's hear about your struggles.
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Sure, as I shared
with you before, you know,
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I've always been an avid reader
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and student of
psychology and philosophy
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and that type of thing,
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but I grew up a
preacher's kid, you know...
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A PK.
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Yeah, PK in the Adventist Church
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and sometimes, I think,
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education
sometimes may get in the way
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and you think too much
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and you think you know too much.
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And during those early
years, in my early teens
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and then later in
my later twenties,
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I went to college.
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You know, I started
thinking, well, maybe this thing
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doesn't make
sense to me, you know,
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so I started questioning
the tenets of the Bible
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and the tenets of
the Adventist faith
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and thought, you know,
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it doesn't match what
I'm seeing in the church.
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Now, was it your associates
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that were influencing you
or were you reading things
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that were kind
of pulling you away?
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What do you think
were the influences
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that were drawing you away?
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I think it was more of my just
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thinking about what I read,
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how I grew up and
what I was taught.
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It didn't matched
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what I was seeing in the church.
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And so, you know, I
looked and I thought,
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wow, there's a lot of
hypocrisy and politics
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and that type of
thing, and I thought,
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this doesn't seem
like a loving, caring,
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Christian kind of atmosphere.
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I see people talking about
it but I also saw variations
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that what they really
look like in real life,
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you know,
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people are quick to
pray and slow to move.
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You know, you can
always have a preaching
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or an evangelism
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but then, do you
reach out and help people?
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And so, in my youth I
probably over thought it,
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you know, and it probably
wasn't as bad as I thought
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and it probably is not as
great as I think it is now.
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You know, but at that time,
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I was questioning everything
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and my father
who was a minister,
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gave me the freedom to
question and to do those things
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and he said, "As long as
you're seeking information
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by all means ask the question."
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But if you're simply
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challenging for the
sake of being an abstinent,
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you know, then that's something
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then that is
probably not appropriate.
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And I use that with
him and with the church.
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How important is it for
a parent to give that child
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that kind of leeway, you know,
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to question, to ask questions
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to not just accept
everything at face value.
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How important is that?
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I think it's very important
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because it allows the
child to think on their own,
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to take responsibility
for their thoughts.
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If they're shut down and
they are taught very early
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that this is
something that you cannot share,
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you have to keep your
opinions and your thoughts
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and your feelings to yourself,
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then that really
breeds in avenue of,
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just kind of like
shutting down all the way
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and so something that
you do want them to share,
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something you do
want them to know,
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they've now learned
to keep things from you.
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And I think the
other piece to that too
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is critical thinking.
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You learn how to
think on your own.
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Yes.
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And it allows you to
kind of blossom as a thinker,
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not just accept
things at face value.
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And I'm thinking with
that, also I would say that
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it allows you to
have a feedback loop.
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If you are encouraged to
share, then you get feedback
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on where your thoughts are
and what you're talking about,
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either by current events,
the church, your own family.
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And one think that we
were always encouraged to do
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is have conversation
at the dinner table.
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You know, which
may or may not happen
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as much as it used to,
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I don't know but
we all ate together,
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and that was the time
to try out your thoughts,
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to share and to share
information and get feedback
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from your parents
or older siblings.
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And that was the time
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when you really
learn social skills.
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And so that was
an important time.
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So yeah, I encourage parents
to give that opportunity.
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And I think that nowadays,
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everybody sitting
at the table texting
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or you're not
sitting at the table at all,
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one group each sit one time
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and another part of the
family eats in another time
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and so that piece
of that dinner time,
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that meal time coming together
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and sharing and
learning from each other,
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I think that's really missing
a lot in today's society.
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Yeah, and there is
nothing wrong with technology,
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and technology
certainly has helped us
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in so many ways.
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But we don't want it to replace
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the everyday
communication skills
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that one learns
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and the ability to
connect with each other,
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you know, and I think
that's something that...
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You can do the
technology but also make sure
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you connect
with the human being.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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So you were in college
and you began to stray,
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did you leave the church
for a while or what did you do?
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I did, I really
got to the point,
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where I was like, you
know, this is not for me.
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I was always a Christian,
I always believed in God,
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always thought that,
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"Yes there is a
God of the Universe
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or that Jesus was
certainly my Savior,
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someone I believed in."
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I was really more concerned
with the box of religion.
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Okay.
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And what that was in
the fact that, you know,
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many people were looking
at other religions and saying,
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these people are wrong.
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And these people are, you
know, if you're not an Adventist
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and you don't know
what you're talking about
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and you're going to
hell and these other things.
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And it wasn't any
one particular person,
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that was just a general
message that I was getting
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that the church was somewhat
of any leader's organization
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that kind of looked
down on the other people.
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And I was going into a
field where we uplifted people
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and we did not look at people
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as below other people
and that kind of thing.
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And so, again in my
youth, I probably overstated it
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and probably
just saw some things,
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it did make a lot of sense to me
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and so, yeah, I say, well,
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this is how we're
going to treat people.
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And if we're
going to treat people
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as if they are not
good as other people,
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I don't want a part of that.
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That's kind of where,
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I kind of went
in my own direction.
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And for how long were
you going on that path?
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I would say, probably all with,
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all through my 20's, definitely.
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And then in my early 30's,
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I kind of
started thinking about,
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you know, this is
not making sense to me
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what I have traded
in was not making sense.
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Unpack that a little bit.
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So, doing my own thing,
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living the way I wanted to live,
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not acknowledging Christ
in my life in any kind of way
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other than my own private,
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you know, at home,
that kind of thing,
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but not going to
church certainly,
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not hanging out with
people who went to church.
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Again, remember, I
saw them as hypocrites,
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and so I wasn't
going to surround myself
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with people who I thought
demean the God that I knew
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and treated other
people in a way that...
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that's not how
God treated people,
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and so I didn't
want to surround myself
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with people who I thought
were not about the right thing.
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Again, probably over
judging and that kind of thing
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and so, yeah,
until I got into my 30's
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and then I started really
looking at my own experiences
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and thank God for my father,
you know, who get me grounded,
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who allowed me to
bounce things off him
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even when I
didn't agree with him.
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And you know, my
mother used to kind of
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put her head up, "Oh,
Lord, help him," you know.
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But my father listened
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and he encouraged
me to come to his table
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and to talk about
things that were controversial,
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things that he did,
I didn't agree with,
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you know, I'm a
third generation Adventist.
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And so, he knew
that I knew better.
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But he wanted me
to figure it out.
00:08:46.79\00:08:48.72
And I think, that's
the gift that he gave me.
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As he had led, he allowed
me to plough through that
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in those dark times
and to not disown me,
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or to demean my
opinions or to make me,
00:08:57.70\00:09:00.90
or to judge me, I
guess it's a good word.
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He didn't judge me.
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He saw
something in me that said,
00:09:03.71\00:09:05.21
he's going to be okay.
00:09:05.24\00:09:06.57
I just have to
give him some space.
00:09:06.61\00:09:07.94
Yeah, and isn't it
interesting, you know,
00:09:07.98\00:09:10.11
that that verse in Proverb about
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"Train up a
child in the way she go
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and when he is old, he
will not depart from it."
00:09:14.25\00:09:16.38
It doesn't mean
that at some point
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you won't kind of go
in another direction.
00:09:17.92\00:09:21.06
But you come back,
that seed has been planted
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and your Dad knew,
the seed has been planted.
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I was the
perfect example of that.
00:09:25.89\00:09:27.23
And I even wrote in
my book that same text,
00:09:27.26\00:09:29.86
you know, Solomon
didn't say when he is old,
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he won't act the fool,
because I certainly did.
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All right.
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Didn't say that when she is old,
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you know, she
would have been perfect.
00:09:37.01\00:09:38.37
No, he doesn't say that.
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When you put something
in a child, it's there.
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Right.
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And it will come
back, God promises that.
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Amen.
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And he certainly
honored my parents
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by bringing it back in
me and I'm so grateful.
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Amen. Amen.
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So after you
went away for a bit,
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you found yourself coming back
to what you knew to be right.
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Yes.
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Was there some pivotal
event that cemented this in you?
00:09:59.13\00:10:03.50
Was there
something that happened
00:10:03.53\00:10:04.87
that actually made
you say, you know what?
00:10:04.90\00:10:07.40
This is where I
am supposed to be.
00:10:07.44\00:10:09.20
I'm never leaving
again. Absolutely.
00:10:09.24\00:10:11.27
It was probably a
little later in my 30s,
00:10:11.31\00:10:14.48
and I thought it should
be but I had a good job,
00:10:14.51\00:10:17.28
I was doing well
and had attached myself
00:10:17.31\00:10:20.08
to some political figures
00:10:20.12\00:10:21.45
who had made
all kind of promises
00:10:21.48\00:10:23.18
and then things were
going to go to the next level
00:10:23.22\00:10:26.05
and I was
looking forward to that.
00:10:26.09\00:10:27.56
And as it turned out
everything went the opposite,
00:10:27.59\00:10:30.73
and ended up losing
a lot material things
00:10:30.76\00:10:34.76
but still things that
I've grown accustom to
00:10:34.80\00:10:37.43
and things that I
liked and, you know,
00:10:37.47\00:10:39.70
the home that I was
living in and things like that
00:10:39.73\00:10:43.00
was difficult to
live in the situation
00:10:43.04\00:10:44.77
I was living in.
00:10:44.81\00:10:46.14
And my wife and at that
time I had a son, you know,
00:10:46.17\00:10:49.64
a younger son
who were not living
00:10:49.68\00:10:52.95
as well as they had been used to
00:10:52.98\00:10:54.48
when things went away.
00:10:54.52\00:10:55.85
I had lost
probably about $6000 a month
00:10:55.88\00:10:57.72
of my income had just gone,
00:10:57.75\00:10:59.92
you know and it
made me think, well,
00:10:59.95\00:11:02.09
do not depend on
men, depend on Dad.
00:11:02.12\00:11:05.49
And so, I made the determination
00:11:05.53\00:11:07.56
then that regardless of
where the next steps would be
00:11:07.60\00:11:11.13
you know, I hadn't
missed any meals, you know.
00:11:11.17\00:11:14.50
We were behind in
bills, no question about it,
00:11:14.54\00:11:16.37
but I hadn't missed a
meal, my health was not gone.
00:11:16.40\00:11:20.58
My mind was still sound
and so I was able to think
00:11:20.61\00:11:23.41
and say, "You know, Lord,
I think what I'm going to do
00:11:23.45\00:11:24.88
from now on is trust You.
00:11:24.91\00:11:26.78
And so if I can just trust You,
00:11:26.82\00:11:29.32
then the rest will
take care of itself."
00:11:29.35\00:11:31.12
And so I determined right then,
00:11:31.15\00:11:32.49
I will not lean to
my own understanding
00:11:32.52\00:11:35.06
and that kind of turned around.
00:11:35.09\00:11:36.42
Things didn't
change immediately,
00:11:36.46\00:11:37.79
but my view of the
circumstances changed.
00:11:37.83\00:11:40.86
My
circumstances, it took a while,
00:11:40.90\00:11:43.77
but my view of the circumstances
00:11:43.80\00:11:45.93
began to change and
I had positive outlook
00:11:45.97\00:11:48.47
and that's when I
really kind of finished
00:11:48.50\00:11:50.47
writing the book during
that really kind of down period.
00:11:50.51\00:11:53.68
Yes because you were in
the midst of your struggle.
00:11:53.71\00:11:57.08
Oh, yeah.
00:11:57.11\00:11:59.08
And you talk about in the book,
00:11:59.11\00:12:00.45
you talk about
spiritual depression.
00:12:00.48\00:12:03.08
What is that?
00:12:03.12\00:12:04.45
Well, you know, as a clinician,
00:12:04.49\00:12:05.95
I've treated thousands of people
00:12:05.99\00:12:07.72
with the clinical depression
00:12:07.76\00:12:09.26
and so I do
parallels between clinical
00:12:09.29\00:12:10.99
and spiritual depression,
00:12:11.03\00:12:12.36
the symptomatology
was quite similar.
00:12:12.39\00:12:14.46
You know, losses in
appetite or gain in appetite,
00:12:14.50\00:12:17.37
loss in sleep or gain
in sleep, worry, anxiety,
00:12:17.40\00:12:21.00
not feeling like you
measure up, you know,
00:12:21.04\00:12:22.94
loss of self
esteem and self worth,
00:12:22.97\00:12:25.01
some of those things,
00:12:25.04\00:12:26.37
feeling like you're kind of
swimming upstream as it were.
00:12:26.41\00:12:29.38
Other people have described me
feeling like you're underwater
00:12:29.41\00:12:31.55
with a buccina or piano
on your back, just kind of,
00:12:31.58\00:12:34.25
just
suffocating from the weight.
00:12:34.28\00:12:36.12
And so if you're thinking that
00:12:36.15\00:12:38.39
maybe God has
turned His back on you.
00:12:38.42\00:12:40.86
If you're thinking that
00:12:40.89\00:12:42.22
maybe I don't deserve
any of His favor anyway.
00:12:42.26\00:12:45.46
Then you may be a
person that's experiencing
00:12:45.49\00:12:47.96
what I claim and what I found
to be spiritual depression.
00:12:48.00\00:12:51.47
Same symptomatology
but it may not be coming
00:12:51.50\00:12:53.90
from an original idea
00:12:53.94\00:12:57.04
but a change in
your body chemistry
00:12:57.07\00:12:59.84
or anything like that.
00:12:59.87\00:13:01.21
It may just be a loss in faith.
00:13:01.24\00:13:02.74
It may be that you're doubting
00:13:02.78\00:13:04.85
all that you've
believed up to that point.
00:13:04.88\00:13:06.92
It may be that
you've lost confidence
00:13:06.95\00:13:09.02
in your belief in God.
00:13:09.05\00:13:10.39
And so some people think,
00:13:10.42\00:13:11.75
well, they've lost faith in God.
00:13:11.79\00:13:13.39
No, I think
you've lost confidence
00:13:13.42\00:13:15.19
in your belief in God.
00:13:15.22\00:13:16.89
And I think
that's pivotal for me
00:13:16.93\00:13:18.93
is that when I
was feeling that way,
00:13:18.96\00:13:20.86
I was able to look
in the mirror and say,
00:13:20.90\00:13:22.23
"You know what, God
hasn't changed, you have."
00:13:22.26\00:13:25.33
And once I came
to that realization,
00:13:25.37\00:13:27.64
it was easier for
me to go, seek him.
00:13:27.67\00:13:31.01
Not that he ever left me,
00:13:31.04\00:13:32.97
but I turned my
back and I assumed,
00:13:33.01\00:13:34.78
you know what, I'm
gonna do this on my own
00:13:34.81\00:13:37.05
and maybe I didn't
consciously say that
00:13:37.08\00:13:39.31
but I pushed aside
00:13:39.35\00:13:41.05
all the
resources, all the people,
00:13:41.08\00:13:43.89
all the things that were
there that could have helped me,
00:13:43.92\00:13:45.59
that could have supported me
00:13:45.62\00:13:46.99
and so I had to make
that come back on my own
00:13:47.02\00:13:48.89
and so when I think
of spiritual depression,
00:13:48.92\00:13:51.06
I think of moving away
from people, places and things
00:13:51.09\00:13:53.56
that actually
could have helped you.
00:13:53.60\00:13:55.33
So, it's kind of an isolation,
it's a spiritual isolation,
00:13:55.36\00:14:00.37
it's not utilizing the resources
00:14:00.40\00:14:03.37
that are
available like the Bible
00:14:03.41\00:14:05.07
and that kind of thing.
00:14:05.11\00:14:06.44
And interesting, you know,
00:14:06.47\00:14:08.04
that the
parallel of the physical,
00:14:08.08\00:14:10.98
like using your appetite,
00:14:11.01\00:14:12.81
losing your
spiritual appetite too,
00:14:12.85\00:14:15.22
where you're really
just not that interested
00:14:15.25\00:14:17.09
in spiritual things anymore.
00:14:17.12\00:14:18.45
I was, and even like
picking up the Bible,
00:14:18.49\00:14:20.82
I fell the most like, guilty
00:14:20.86\00:14:23.12
like why would I even try this.
00:14:23.16\00:14:24.66
I mean, who am I that
He would bring me back
00:14:24.69\00:14:27.60
when I have so long
turned my back on Him.
00:14:27.63\00:14:30.37
And so even touching
His word was something
00:14:30.40\00:14:33.23
where I felt unworthy, you know.
00:14:33.27\00:14:35.34
And so, those same
people that I saw as hypocrites,
00:14:35.37\00:14:37.97
I now saw, what if
we go down this path,
00:14:38.01\00:14:40.08
you're just like them.
00:14:40.11\00:14:41.78
You haven't
changed your lifestyle,
00:14:41.81\00:14:43.35
you haven't done
what you're supposed to do
00:14:43.38\00:14:44.95
and that here, you are praying.
00:14:44.98\00:14:46.78
Here you are, you know,
00:14:46.82\00:14:48.15
slipping on the
back pew at church
00:14:48.18\00:14:49.62
one Sabbath you know,
00:14:49.65\00:14:51.19
hoping to get a
blessing and then slipping out
00:14:51.22\00:14:52.65
before anybody can greet you.
00:14:52.69\00:14:54.12
And so, it was for
me, it was isolation,
00:14:54.16\00:14:56.96
for others it
may be other things,
00:14:56.99\00:14:58.33
but yeah, for me,
00:14:58.36\00:14:59.69
I didn't want to be
around or connected to
00:14:59.73\00:15:01.76
any of those
things that I saw as,
00:15:01.80\00:15:04.33
would have caused my
problem in the first place.
00:15:04.37\00:15:06.23
And so it took
God to change my mind
00:15:06.27\00:15:08.67
and my thinking.
00:15:08.70\00:15:10.04
And so as I share
with you off camera,
00:15:10.07\00:15:11.87
the reason the book
took me so long to write
00:15:11.91\00:15:13.81
is because He had a process.
00:15:13.84\00:15:15.18
He needed me to go through.
00:15:15.21\00:15:16.68
So that I can input in the pages
00:15:16.71\00:15:18.85
what He did for me.
00:15:18.88\00:15:20.22
And that makes the book
so much more powerful to me
00:15:20.25\00:15:24.02
because you're not just
writing it as a theoretician,
00:15:24.05\00:15:28.69
you're writing it as someone
who has experienced this.
00:15:28.72\00:15:32.76
And we all go through struggles.
00:15:32.79\00:15:35.66
And we were saying
this off camera as well.
00:15:35.70\00:15:37.43
We all go through struggles
00:15:37.47\00:15:39.80
and if you're born
gain, the Bible says that
00:15:39.83\00:15:43.14
"All who live godly
must suffer persecution."
00:15:43.17\00:15:45.54
So whether you
consider yourself saved
00:15:45.57\00:15:48.04
or whether you're not
saved or wherever you are,
00:15:48.08\00:15:51.71
you're going to
have some struggling.
00:15:51.75\00:15:53.08
Absolutely.
00:15:53.11\00:15:54.45
But how is the lens,
00:15:54.48\00:15:56.48
you mentioned
the lens before too.
00:15:56.52\00:15:58.15
The lens that you
look through life,
00:15:58.19\00:16:03.16
you look at life through,
that's what's important.
00:16:03.19\00:16:07.10
I think so.
00:16:07.13\00:16:09.30
Because your
circumstances might not change,
00:16:09.33\00:16:12.60
might not change right away.
00:16:12.63\00:16:14.24
But how are you dealing
with those circumstances?
00:16:14.27\00:16:17.01
One of the things that I say
00:16:17.04\00:16:18.37
and I think I may
have said it early
00:16:18.41\00:16:19.74
in the introduction
somewhere, I talk about it,
00:16:19.77\00:16:22.04
it's paramount
for you to understand
00:16:22.08\00:16:24.55
the God that you believe in.
00:16:24.58\00:16:26.78
And if you
believe in a tyrant God,
00:16:26.82\00:16:28.85
if you believe in
a God that zaps you
00:16:28.88\00:16:30.65
when you do something wrong.
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.15
If you believe in a God
00:16:32.19\00:16:33.52
that has caused all
your pain and misery,
00:16:33.56\00:16:35.46
then you won't serve that God.
00:16:35.49\00:16:37.79
But if you believe
in a benevolent God,
00:16:37.83\00:16:40.40
if you believe in a God
00:16:40.43\00:16:42.00
that has turned
around your whole situation
00:16:42.03\00:16:45.13
and you don't
know how it happened.
00:16:45.17\00:16:46.60
He's done things for
you that only God could do.
00:16:46.63\00:16:49.17
You couldn't do it,
00:16:49.20\00:16:50.54
another human
being couldn't do it.
00:16:50.57\00:16:51.91
If you believe in
a loving, caring God,
00:16:51.94\00:16:54.51
then you will serve that God.
00:16:54.54\00:16:56.44
And you will not wait
until your situation improves,
00:16:56.48\00:16:59.31
you will not wait until
00:16:59.35\00:17:01.45
the check comes
in the mail, okay?
00:17:01.48\00:17:03.89
If you believe
in that type of God,
00:17:03.92\00:17:06.02
you will fall on your
knees and you will say,
00:17:06.05\00:17:08.02
"Please, let me serve you."
00:17:08.06\00:17:10.06
And that's what happened to me,
00:17:10.09\00:17:11.43
instead of running
away from that other God,
00:17:11.46\00:17:13.83
I ran toward the loving God.
00:17:13.86\00:17:16.50
So your mind is so powerful
and it's what you believe
00:17:16.53\00:17:20.30
that did takes what you do.
00:17:20.34\00:17:22.30
So beliefs turn into
actions or in action...
00:17:22.34\00:17:25.67
Right. In some case may be.
00:17:25.71\00:17:27.18
And so I think,
that's really important
00:17:27.21\00:17:28.71
for people to take an inventory
of their belief system.
00:17:28.74\00:17:32.25
Not of their
religious belief system
00:17:32.28\00:17:34.28
but of their
spiritual belief system.
00:17:34.32\00:17:36.82
Do you believe in
the God of the Universe?
00:17:36.85\00:17:38.95
Start there.
00:17:38.99\00:17:40.32
The rest will
take care of itself.
00:17:40.36\00:17:41.69
But you have to start
with that sensitive belief
00:17:41.72\00:17:43.49
and then understand
00:17:43.53\00:17:44.86
what type of God you believe in.
00:17:44.89\00:17:47.53
That is a great point, really.
00:17:47.56\00:17:51.13
Give us if you
will some more questions
00:17:51.17\00:17:53.54
in that spiritual inventory?
00:17:53.57\00:17:55.90
Because I think that,
00:17:55.94\00:17:57.44
so many people
can confuse the two
00:17:57.47\00:18:01.94
but to really know
who you believe in,
00:18:01.98\00:18:05.08
to know that God
that you believe in.
00:18:05.11\00:18:06.72
Unpack that
little bit for us too.
00:18:06.75\00:18:08.08
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:08.12\00:18:09.45
And so, you know, a
lot of times people think,
00:18:09.48\00:18:10.82
well, if God was
real or if He cared,
00:18:10.85\00:18:12.95
He wouldn't allow the things
00:18:12.99\00:18:14.32
that happened in
this world to happen.
00:18:14.36\00:18:15.96
So anything negative
happens, they blame it on God.
00:18:15.99\00:18:19.33
Not understanding that
00:18:19.36\00:18:20.96
He has allowed for
evil to take its course
00:18:21.00\00:18:24.17
because this thing called
The Great Controversy is real.
00:18:24.20\00:18:27.54
And there are
beings and entities
00:18:27.57\00:18:29.74
and planets around the world
who are looking at us to see
00:18:29.77\00:18:31.57
how these things
going to turn out.
00:18:31.61\00:18:33.24
And so He can always step in
00:18:33.27\00:18:34.88
and hold back
the winds of strife
00:18:34.91\00:18:36.38
as we want Him to.
00:18:36.41\00:18:37.95
And so, people say, well,
00:18:37.98\00:18:39.35
may be He is just
trying to teach me a lesson.
00:18:39.38\00:18:41.22
Well, God intentionally
put you through pain and longs
00:18:41.25\00:18:43.99
to teach you a lesson.
00:18:44.02\00:18:45.49
Or would He allow you
to go through something
00:18:45.52\00:18:47.32
that was already
part of a sinful world
00:18:47.36\00:18:49.52
because we live
in a sinful world.
00:18:49.56\00:18:51.43
And the sun shines on
the just and the unjust,
00:18:51.46\00:18:54.80
and the rain comes
00:18:54.83\00:18:56.16
on the faithful
and the unfaithful.
00:18:56.20\00:18:57.53
So it's not a matter of
God doing something to you
00:18:57.57\00:18:59.70
or your family or Him
allowing something to happen
00:18:59.73\00:19:02.40
just so He can
teach you a lesson, no.
00:19:02.44\00:19:04.51
It's about we
live in a sinful world
00:19:04.54\00:19:06.64
and although His
protection is there,
00:19:06.68\00:19:08.48
He also allows us to
experience some things
00:19:08.51\00:19:11.01
that would bring
us closer to Him.
00:19:11.05\00:19:12.81
And so as I
unpack that for myself,
00:19:12.85\00:19:15.22
I recognize that I was
what we call selective memory.
00:19:15.25\00:19:19.85
Only the bad things
were attributed to God, okay.
00:19:19.89\00:19:23.16
But as a woman you have
an unbalanced ledger here.
00:19:23.19\00:19:26.33
You have an unbalanced ledger.
00:19:26.36\00:19:27.70
You need to go down
and look at your ledger.
00:19:27.73\00:19:29.70
You woke up this morning, okay.
00:19:29.73\00:19:32.37
Regardless of
whatever my struggles were,
00:19:32.40\00:19:33.97
I always had a good job.
00:19:34.00\00:19:35.94
Never missed a meal.
00:19:35.97\00:19:37.77
Always was able to connect
with my friends and family
00:19:37.81\00:19:39.84
and do those things.
00:19:39.87\00:19:41.21
I didn't lose my
mind and end up in places
00:19:41.24\00:19:42.84
where I'm helping people.
00:19:42.88\00:19:44.21
Okay.
00:19:44.25\00:19:45.58
If not for the grace of God,
00:19:45.61\00:19:46.95
I'm on the other
side of the jail.
00:19:46.98\00:19:48.32
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
00:19:48.35\00:19:49.68
Those things and as I
started balancing that,
00:19:49.72\00:19:51.05
I was like, "Wait a minute."
00:19:51.09\00:19:52.42
I attributed too
much negative to God.
00:19:52.45\00:19:54.59
And haven't given Him
credit for the very positive,
00:19:54.62\00:19:58.63
breath in my
lungs, those things.
00:19:58.66\00:20:00.00
Yes, yes.
00:20:00.03\00:20:01.36
And as I started
unpacking that for myself,
00:20:01.40\00:20:03.47
the ledger with
God went like this.
00:20:03.50\00:20:06.60
Okay.
00:20:06.63\00:20:07.97
And the weight was immeasurable.
00:20:08.00\00:20:09.67
These other things as
Paul would say are nothing.
00:20:09.70\00:20:11.97
Compared to the
goodness of Jesus.
00:20:12.01\00:20:14.41
And so that's what helped me
kind of turn around in my mind
00:20:14.44\00:20:16.48
to say, yes,
00:20:16.51\00:20:17.85
these are the things
still happening in the world
00:20:17.88\00:20:19.65
and sometimes they happen to me.
00:20:19.68\00:20:21.42
No doubt about it.
00:20:21.45\00:20:22.78
But He has given me the strength
00:20:22.82\00:20:24.72
to find strength in my struggle.
00:20:24.75\00:20:27.22
And that's when
I said to myself,
00:20:27.26\00:20:28.79
"That must be the mission."
00:20:28.82\00:20:30.56
I need to go
around and tell others
00:20:30.59\00:20:32.86
how to find
strength in their struggle,
00:20:32.89\00:20:35.43
because struggle is inevitable.
00:20:35.46\00:20:37.47
Life happens and when it does,
God does His greatest work.
00:20:37.50\00:20:41.40
Yes, yes, because all things
00:20:41.44\00:20:43.67
will end up working
together for our good.
00:20:43.71\00:20:46.31
He didn't say all
things are going to be good.
00:20:46.34\00:20:48.38
But they're
going to work together.
00:20:48.41\00:20:49.74
That's right. That's right.
00:20:49.78\00:20:51.11
So sometimes, we
parse those words.
00:20:51.15\00:20:52.65
And we throw them out there,
00:20:52.68\00:20:54.02
but when they
became meaningful to me,
00:20:54.05\00:20:55.62
I actually was
able to experience it,
00:20:55.65\00:20:57.19
not my father's experience,
00:20:57.22\00:20:58.62
not my grandfather's experience,
00:20:58.65\00:21:00.56
my experience.
00:21:00.59\00:21:02.22
And that's what brought me back
to the Lord is my experience.
00:21:02.26\00:21:04.79
Amen, the Lord allowed
you to develop a testimony.
00:21:04.83\00:21:08.33
Yes.
00:21:08.36\00:21:09.70
You know, one of my friends
said that Lord is like a big,
00:21:09.73\00:21:12.90
great fishermen, you know,
00:21:12.93\00:21:14.27
He just kind of go out,
00:21:14.30\00:21:15.64
and then He just ends
up, just reeling you back in.
00:21:15.67\00:21:18.07
I like that, yeah.
00:21:18.11\00:21:19.44
You know, and you
develop that testimony
00:21:19.47\00:21:21.64
that no one can
take away from you.
00:21:21.68\00:21:23.51
This is your
relationship with Jesus.
00:21:23.55\00:21:26.35
It's not your dad, not
your granddad, it's yours.
00:21:26.38\00:21:29.72
Nobody can take
that away from you.
00:21:29.75\00:21:31.59
So you found
strength in your struggle.
00:21:31.62\00:21:35.09
Yes.
00:21:35.12\00:21:36.46
What are some of the
steps that you can tell people
00:21:36.49\00:21:39.03
as to how to find strength
in the midst of their struggle?
00:21:39.06\00:21:42.56
I think, one of the first things
00:21:42.60\00:21:43.93
that helped me was
to just take a step back
00:21:43.97\00:21:46.84
from the chaos and the drama
00:21:46.87\00:21:49.94
that was going on, that
I was paying attention to.
00:21:49.97\00:21:51.87
Sometimes that
can be distracting.
00:21:51.91\00:21:53.24
Yes.
00:21:53.27\00:21:54.61
There are so many
distractions out there.
00:21:54.64\00:21:55.98
They get your
attention off of God.
00:21:56.01\00:21:57.81
You know, you're
focused on your problems,
00:21:57.85\00:21:59.48
you're focused on
lack of resources,
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.62
if that's your case.
00:22:01.65\00:22:02.98
You may be focused
on a bad relationship,
00:22:03.02\00:22:04.75
if that's your situation.
00:22:04.79\00:22:06.35
Whatever your situation is,
00:22:06.39\00:22:07.72
you're so focused on that,
00:22:07.76\00:22:09.09
you can't focus on the fact
00:22:09.12\00:22:10.46
that there is a
God that can help you,
00:22:10.49\00:22:11.99
so that was the first
thing, I had to step back.
00:22:12.03\00:22:13.70
And it's something
00:22:13.73\00:22:15.06
I used to teach my
students at Temple.
00:22:15.10\00:22:16.83
If you put blinders on,
00:22:16.87\00:22:19.23
you don't have
peripheral vision.
00:22:19.27\00:22:20.60
You can't see to the
left or to the right.
00:22:20.64\00:22:22.37
And it may be hard for you to...
00:22:22.40\00:22:24.21
Oh, it's so hard to
take those blinders down.
00:22:24.24\00:22:26.34
And so I said,
00:22:26.37\00:22:27.71
if it's scary for you
to take your blinders down,
00:22:27.74\00:22:29.74
you know, you can improve your,
00:22:29.78\00:22:31.41
by just stepping back.
00:22:31.45\00:22:33.75
And so until a person is willing
00:22:33.78\00:22:35.28
or courageous enough to
pull down their blinders,
00:22:35.32\00:22:38.42
they can improve their vision
00:22:38.45\00:22:39.95
by just stepping
back from the problem.
00:22:39.99\00:22:42.29
Just step back.
00:22:42.32\00:22:43.66
That's powerful.
00:22:43.69\00:22:45.03
And eventually,
00:22:45.06\00:22:46.39
we'll teach them how
to pull the blinders down.
00:22:46.43\00:22:47.76
But the first
thing is step back.
00:22:47.80\00:22:49.86
Step back from the problem.
00:22:49.90\00:22:51.73
Your vision gets better.
00:22:51.77\00:22:53.67
And so that's the
first thing I would say,
00:22:53.70\00:22:55.14
and then surround yourself
with positive thinking people.
00:22:55.17\00:23:00.18
Okay, and so, I
always had a family
00:23:00.21\00:23:03.68
that loved me
regardless of whether I was,
00:23:03.71\00:23:05.95
you know, going to
church with them or not
00:23:05.98\00:23:07.75
and so hanging around them.
00:23:07.78\00:23:09.42
you know, coming
over Sabbath dinner
00:23:09.45\00:23:10.79
even though I may not
have gone to church that day.
00:23:10.82\00:23:12.65
They still gave
me a plate, you know.
00:23:12.69\00:23:15.36
And so that encouraged me
00:23:15.39\00:23:16.73
and I got to enjoy
00:23:16.76\00:23:18.09
and then we always
close the Sabbath with a song,
00:23:18.13\00:23:19.56
and you know,
00:23:19.59\00:23:20.93
my family comes from
a long line of singers.
00:23:20.96\00:23:23.26
Oh, yes.
00:23:23.30\00:23:24.63
Your mother was
one of the blend rise,
00:23:24.67\00:23:26.43
Eleanor, I love the...
00:23:26.47\00:23:27.94
Jackie. Yeah, Jackie.
00:23:27.97\00:23:29.30
Jackie, I love the blend rise
00:23:29.34\00:23:30.74
So that brought me in.
00:23:30.77\00:23:32.71
You know,
because my cousin Brian
00:23:32.74\00:23:34.14
and different
ones would be there
00:23:34.18\00:23:35.51
and he nudged me.
00:23:35.54\00:23:36.88
Okay, you know, your
baritone part, you know.
00:23:36.91\00:23:38.41
Yeah, I remember and
so I would join right in.
00:23:38.45\00:23:41.02
And then it just became habit.
00:23:41.05\00:23:43.35
Next thing, you know,
00:23:43.39\00:23:44.72
let me get there little earlier.
00:23:44.75\00:23:46.49
So I surrounded
myself with positive people.
00:23:46.52\00:23:49.22
Then I started
reading for myself the words.
00:23:49.26\00:23:52.59
Words that I had
heard many, many times,
00:23:52.63\00:23:54.20
sermons that I had
heard thousands of times.
00:23:54.23\00:23:56.80
I'm reading it for myself.
00:23:56.83\00:23:58.23
And so I took on a mission,
00:23:58.27\00:23:59.60
I said, I'm gonna
read the Bible through,
00:23:59.63\00:24:00.97
cover to cover and
see how long it takes me.
00:24:01.00\00:24:03.41
You know, I'm an academician,
this should be easy.
00:24:03.44\00:24:05.67
Oh, not so much.
00:24:05.71\00:24:07.44
Okay, Chronicles was rough.
00:24:07.48\00:24:08.81
Okay.
00:24:08.84\00:24:10.38
But I
challenged myself, do this.
00:24:10.41\00:24:12.81
And each time I read it through,
00:24:12.85\00:24:14.18
eventually, I did it eight times
00:24:14.22\00:24:17.42
an academic test.
00:24:17.45\00:24:20.79
But how do you read the
Bible and not be changed.
00:24:20.82\00:24:23.49
My intention
wasn't to be changed.
00:24:23.53\00:24:24.89
My intention was,
00:24:24.93\00:24:26.26
let me read
this thing for myself
00:24:26.29\00:24:27.63
and see what it says.
00:24:27.66\00:24:29.00
As I read it, the
Lord does what He does.
00:24:29.03\00:24:31.23
No, you messed up, now
you've opened up My word.
00:24:31.27\00:24:33.13
Yes, yes, yes.
00:24:33.17\00:24:34.70
And so He had my attention.
00:24:34.74\00:24:36.24
And so I started reading those.
00:24:36.27\00:24:37.61
So those three
things that we summarize,
00:24:37.64\00:24:38.97
first step back,
00:24:39.01\00:24:40.98
surround yourself
with positive people
00:24:41.01\00:24:42.71
that love the Lord,
00:24:42.74\00:24:44.91
and then you must
read it for yourself.
00:24:44.95\00:24:47.15
Don't take
anyone else's word for.
00:24:47.18\00:24:49.25
Don't live off
anyone else's experience.
00:24:49.28\00:24:51.95
That means you
won't give credit for
00:24:51.99\00:24:54.22
and you won't reject it
00:24:54.26\00:24:55.59
because of
something somebody else said.
00:24:55.62\00:24:56.96
Yes.
00:24:56.99\00:24:58.33
If you're gonna
accept it or not,
00:24:58.36\00:24:59.86
it will be based
on your experience
00:24:59.89\00:25:01.23
and those three things,
00:25:01.26\00:25:02.60
that's where I
would start with somebody.
00:25:02.63\00:25:03.97
That's rich, that's rich.
00:25:04.00\00:25:05.73
You have got to get this book.
00:25:05.77\00:25:08.14
This book is such a blessing.
00:25:08.17\00:25:11.57
I'm just thrilled
with what I found in here
00:25:11.61\00:25:15.08
and how you've
brought science and all that
00:25:15.11\00:25:19.71
and the Bible together,
00:25:19.75\00:25:21.55
psychology and
the Bible together
00:25:21.58\00:25:23.82
and I just think, you know,
00:25:23.85\00:25:25.92
whenever we can
show and demonstrate
00:25:25.95\00:25:28.26
the relevance of the Bible,
00:25:28.29\00:25:30.26
especially in
these secular times
00:25:30.29\00:25:32.16
where people are acting
like the Bible is antiquated,
00:25:32.19\00:25:35.30
obsolete book and
we can show where,
00:25:35.33\00:25:37.77
now look,
principles here are timeless.
00:25:37.80\00:25:41.17
And that's what
you've done. Well, thank you.
00:25:41.20\00:25:43.00
God bless 'cause
that's what I was looking for
00:25:43.04\00:25:44.91
and if you can't find it,
00:25:44.94\00:25:46.27
then you should
write it, you know,
00:25:46.31\00:25:47.74
and I was looking for a
book that combine science
00:25:47.78\00:25:51.05
'cause I believe in science.
00:25:51.08\00:25:52.78
And I've cousins and friends
00:25:52.81\00:25:54.48
that are very much
scientists and researchers
00:25:54.52\00:25:57.49
and they sometimes
question the Bible, you know,
00:25:57.52\00:26:00.32
because of its
relevance in terms of well...
00:26:00.36\00:26:02.49
does it hold up to science.
00:26:02.52\00:26:03.86
And in my mind,
00:26:03.89\00:26:05.23
it takes more faith to believe
00:26:05.26\00:26:06.59
in some of the
scientific theories
00:26:06.63\00:26:08.03
than it does to
believe in the Bible.
00:26:08.06\00:26:09.40
But that's my choice.
00:26:09.43\00:26:10.77
Other people say,
no science is king.
00:26:10.80\00:26:12.53
But for me, I needed a book
00:26:12.57\00:26:14.34
that would take
in my desire and need
00:26:14.37\00:26:17.01
to understand scientifically
00:26:17.04\00:26:19.31
what the Bible was saying to me.
00:26:19.34\00:26:21.24
And that's when they
will speak to you individually
00:26:21.28\00:26:23.41
and so the Bible
texts were relevant.
00:26:23.45\00:26:26.51
The spiritual
experience is relevant.
00:26:26.55\00:26:29.22
Doing the work that I do
in the community was relevant
00:26:29.25\00:26:31.75
and so putting all
that together and saying,
00:26:31.79\00:26:33.96
this is something that I
think might help someone.
00:26:33.99\00:26:36.89
That was my goal.
00:26:36.93\00:26:38.26
That's tremendous.
00:26:38.29\00:26:39.63
What closing thought
00:26:39.66\00:26:41.00
would you give
in like 30 seconds,
00:26:41.03\00:26:42.63
what closing thought
would you give to someone
00:26:42.66\00:26:45.33
who's in the midst of
this struggle right now?
00:26:45.37\00:26:47.94
The first thing I
would say is hold on.
00:26:47.97\00:26:49.70
Okay.
00:26:49.74\00:26:51.41
Do not allow your circumstances
00:26:51.44\00:26:54.21
determine what you
think about yourself,
00:26:54.24\00:26:56.78
what you think
about your future.
00:26:56.81\00:26:58.91
God is a powerful
God and He's powerful,
00:26:58.95\00:27:02.72
more powerful than
your circumstances.
00:27:02.75\00:27:04.99
You have to realize
that it's okay to be down.
00:27:05.02\00:27:10.13
It doesn't mean
you're gonna stay there.
00:27:10.16\00:27:11.89
He may just be
getting your attention.
00:27:11.93\00:27:13.90
It's okay to question.
00:27:13.93\00:27:16.77
You may ask a question
that only God can answer.
00:27:16.80\00:27:19.33
It's okay to wonder
00:27:19.37\00:27:21.74
if you're heading
in the right direction,
00:27:21.77\00:27:23.91
only God can redirect you.
00:27:23.94\00:27:25.51
And so do not run
away from those things
00:27:25.54\00:27:28.24
that may be traditional
00:27:28.28\00:27:29.61
that people have
told you to avoid.
00:27:29.64\00:27:31.61
Ask God to help you.
00:27:31.65\00:27:33.11
He has never ever said
00:27:33.15\00:27:34.48
no to an honest plea for help.
00:27:34.52\00:27:36.22
Oh, Doc, that's so beautiful.
00:27:36.25\00:27:38.65
And our time is up,
00:27:38.69\00:27:40.02
I cannot believe
that our time is up,
00:27:40.06\00:27:42.09
it went by so fast.
00:27:42.12\00:27:43.53
What a blessing you've been.
00:27:43.56\00:27:44.99
Thank you so much
for being with us.
00:27:45.03\00:27:46.59
Thank you for having me.
00:27:46.63\00:27:47.96
Will you come back? I sure will.
00:27:48.00\00:27:49.33
You know, we have special,
00:27:49.36\00:27:50.70
I just so
appreciate all that you do,
00:27:50.73\00:27:53.23
and all that
you're doing for us.
00:27:53.27\00:27:54.64
So thank you so much,
and thank you for tuning in.
00:27:54.67\00:27:57.77
Join us next time
because you know what,
00:27:57.81\00:27:59.54
it just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:27:59.57\00:28:01.94