Stay tuned to meet a man
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.70
whose middle names
are: Dedication and Service.
00:00:02.73\00:00:04.97
My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:00:05.00\00:00:06.53
and I'm Jason Bradley
00:00:06.57\00:00:07.97
and you're
watching Urban Report.
00:00:08.00\00:00:10.04
Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
00:00:34.73\00:00:36.46
Our guest today is
Dr. DeWitt Williams.
00:00:36.50\00:00:39.50
He is the
author of several books
00:00:39.53\00:00:41.50
and has served as President
of the Central Africa Union
00:00:41.57\00:00:44.71
and was the former
Director of Health Ministries
00:00:44.74\00:00:47.64
for the North American Division
of Seventh-day Adventists.
00:00:47.68\00:00:50.68
Welcome to Urban
Report Dr. Williams.
00:00:50.71\00:00:53.62
Good to be here Dr. Lewis.
00:00:53.65\00:00:54.98
It is so good to
have you, you know,
00:00:55.02\00:00:57.09
I have known you and
your family for years
00:00:57.12\00:01:01.62
because when my
family moved to Oakwood
00:01:01.66\00:01:06.16
in Huntsville, Alabama,
00:01:06.19\00:01:07.56
my dad went as an older student,
00:01:07.60\00:01:10.17
he went back to school,
so he was older than you
00:01:10.20\00:01:12.10
but you were
there when he was there
00:01:12.13\00:01:14.20
and my sister and I
lived there as children
00:01:14.24\00:01:17.04
and I remember you,
00:01:17.07\00:01:18.41
I remember when you were dating
your lovely wife, Margaret,
00:01:18.44\00:01:21.58
I remember her sister,
so... we kind of go back a ways.
00:01:21.61\00:01:26.15
DeWitt: That's a
long time. Yvonne: Yes.
00:01:26.18\00:01:27.88
DeWitt: More than 50 years.
00:01:27.92\00:01:29.25
Yvonne: Oh my goodness,
you don't have to tell that!
00:01:29.28\00:01:32.89
You don't have to tell
that... but it is really...
00:01:32.92\00:01:36.76
it has been a long time
00:01:36.83\00:01:38.76
and you've had such
an interesting journey
00:01:38.79\00:01:41.56
so I really wanted our Viewers
to become familiar with you
00:01:41.60\00:01:45.87
and your work and...
just the path that God has...
00:01:45.93\00:01:49.87
the paths... because you've
done so many different things,
00:01:49.90\00:01:53.68
all though... on one
path... leading to the Lord.
00:01:53.71\00:01:57.71
So, let's talk
about your journey a bit,
00:01:57.78\00:01:59.75
where were you born and raised?
00:01:59.78\00:02:01.12
I was born in Philadelphia...
South Philadelphia...
00:02:01.15\00:02:04.22
kind of a poor family,
there were six siblings
00:02:04.25\00:02:11.19
and my older sisters,
Sophia and Morgan and then me
00:02:11.23\00:02:15.36
and Richard... excuse me...
Clinton, Richard and Alyssa
00:02:15.40\00:02:19.47
and my mother and
father and my grandmother...
00:02:19.53\00:02:22.14
we all lived in the same house
and... as a matter of fact...
00:02:22.17\00:02:25.81
my father was renting
a place across the street
00:02:25.84\00:02:28.68
and he saw that this
place across the street
00:02:28.71\00:02:31.61
was empty so he just went in...
00:02:31.65\00:02:33.18
moved into this
house that was unoccupied
00:02:33.21\00:02:36.95
and we lived in there
maybe for ten years or so,
00:02:36.99\00:02:40.52
he just took it
over and nobody...
00:02:40.56\00:02:43.12
Yvonne: Wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait...
00:02:43.16\00:02:45.96
it was
abandoned... it was abandoned.
00:02:45.99\00:02:48.76
So, he just... went over there
00:02:48.80\00:02:50.60
and you lived there
for ten years and nobody...
00:02:50.63\00:02:53.47
Yeah, we fixed it up,
there was no bathroom inside,
00:02:53.50\00:02:56.44
it was an outhouse, he
moved the bathroom inside
00:02:56.47\00:02:59.37
and put in heating,
painted and everything
00:02:59.41\00:03:01.88
and made it a nice home.
00:03:01.94\00:03:03.85
So we lived
there for many years.
00:03:03.88\00:03:05.31
So there was no... you
didn't have to pay rent
00:03:05.35\00:03:07.68
or anything, you
just went and occupied...
00:03:07.72\00:03:09.95
we're not recommending
that to anybody right now
00:03:09.98\00:03:12.89
it's just... maybe you
could have done it then...
00:03:12.92\00:03:15.79
but he just went and occupied?
00:03:15.82\00:03:18.23
Occupied...
because it was abandoned
00:03:18.26\00:03:19.59
and people said, "This
place has been abandoned
00:03:19.63\00:03:22.26
for about two or three years"
00:03:22.33\00:03:23.67
and it kept getting worse
and when he got it all fixed up
00:03:23.70\00:03:26.17
apparently the owners...
people told the owners...
00:03:26.20\00:03:28.44
"It looks good now" and
they came back and took it,
00:03:28.47\00:03:30.64
so we had to move out.
00:03:30.67\00:03:32.01
Oh, so they waited
for you to fix it up
00:03:32.04\00:03:34.18
and literally get back home,
00:03:34.21\00:03:35.88
now what about electricity
though... what... I mean...
00:03:35.91\00:03:38.35
I don't... I think he worked...
00:03:38.38\00:03:41.08
I don't really
know it was so long ago
00:03:41.12\00:03:42.45
he worked out
some kind of way where
00:03:42.48\00:03:44.32
electricity was
turned on and he paid for it.
00:03:44.35\00:03:46.29
and... but I remember
that as our first home...
00:03:46.32\00:03:50.06
living there... then we
moved to North Philadelphia,
00:03:50.09\00:03:54.00
and then we moved to Germantown
00:03:54.03\00:03:55.90
and finally, my father didn't
want us to live in the city,
00:03:55.93\00:03:58.83
so we finally
moved out to Glenside
00:03:58.87\00:04:00.74
which is a
suburb of Philadelphia
00:04:00.77\00:04:02.60
and we built the house.
00:04:02.64\00:04:03.97
He had four boys so
we were his special team.
00:04:04.01\00:04:07.48
He used us... when we got
about the age of 13 or 14...
00:04:07.51\00:04:12.61
and he saw little
muscles coming, you know,
00:04:12.65\00:04:15.62
and we were his
team, we did painting,
00:04:15.65\00:04:18.75
and paper
hanging and everything.
00:04:18.79\00:04:20.22
We built the house
that we moved into.
00:04:20.26\00:04:21.82
Wow! so... in our Society today,
00:04:21.86\00:04:26.03
there is such a
crisis with absentee fathers,
00:04:26.09\00:04:31.23
how did having your father
in your home impact your life?
00:04:31.27\00:04:35.50
Well, you know, I
really admired my father.
00:04:35.57\00:04:39.21
I... I... he was my model...
00:04:39.24\00:04:43.11
he was a very religious
man, he wanted to be a minister
00:04:43.14\00:04:48.08
and he had
no... he had a brother
00:04:48.12\00:04:52.09
but his brother died early
on so we never knew his brother,
00:04:52.15\00:04:54.72
my mother had no
brothers and sisters
00:04:54.76\00:04:56.69
so we didn't have any
relatives so much to speak about
00:04:56.73\00:05:01.86
but he was a good
model, he prayed for us,
00:05:01.93\00:05:06.57
he had little talks with
us, he taught us how to work,
00:05:06.60\00:05:10.14
I knew how to work,
00:05:10.17\00:05:12.27
he came to school and
actually got us from school,
00:05:12.31\00:05:16.14
he had a truck called,
00:05:16.18\00:05:17.51
Integrity Building
and Construction Company
00:05:17.55\00:05:19.98
and we changed
from our school clothes
00:05:20.02\00:05:22.68
into our work
clothes and go to work,
00:05:22.72\00:05:25.32
and to be truthful,
00:05:25.35\00:05:26.99
I didn't think I was
going to go to college
00:05:27.02\00:05:29.39
because
graduation was Tuesday night
00:05:29.42\00:05:31.69
and he took me to graduation
00:05:31.76\00:05:34.53
in the Integrity Building
and Construction Company truck
00:05:34.56\00:05:38.43
and that night I found out
that I had two scholarships.
00:05:38.47\00:05:42.34
I had a scholarship,
back then it was 500 dollars
00:05:42.37\00:05:45.37
which was a lot for me,
from the Senior Work Day
00:05:45.41\00:05:48.28
and the Lord is
good because I had...
00:05:48.31\00:05:50.11
I wanted to go to college
but I knew we didn't have money,
00:05:50.15\00:05:52.58
the Senior Work Day Scholarship,
00:05:52.61\00:05:53.95
the students gave
me the 500 dollars
00:05:53.98\00:05:55.45
and some Ladies'
Group in Willow Grove...
00:05:55.48\00:05:57.52
they gave me 200
dollars, so I praise the Lord,
00:05:57.55\00:06:01.02
here I was... going to
Oakwood which was my dream.
00:06:01.06\00:06:04.53
so, I think the Bible says,
00:06:04.56\00:06:07.06
"The desire of the
righteous shall be granted"
00:06:07.10\00:06:11.13
and I'm not
saying I was righteous
00:06:11.17\00:06:12.63
but I think my father was
00:06:12.70\00:06:14.04
and he started a
number of churches,
00:06:14.07\00:06:16.30
he started the
Willow Grove church,
00:06:16.34\00:06:18.17
he started a church in
Williamstown, New Jersey.
00:06:18.21\00:06:21.98
Jason: He
started the Willow Grove?
00:06:22.01\00:06:23.51
Dr. Williams:
Yeah, Jason: Really?
00:06:23.55\00:06:24.98
Yeah... he started...
there was a... you know...
00:06:25.01\00:06:27.95
the only church we had at
one time was the Ebenezer church
00:06:27.98\00:06:30.45
and that's the church but...
00:06:30.49\00:06:32.75
Jason: Is that
church still around?
00:06:32.79\00:06:35.56
I went to Willow
Grove a while ago...
00:06:35.59\00:06:38.29
that's where my brother...
that's where Val lives
00:06:38.33\00:06:40.90
and I went to church
there is that the same...
00:06:40.93\00:06:43.43
I wonder if that's the same one.
00:06:43.47\00:06:45.07
I think so, go
and look under the...
00:06:45.10\00:06:47.30
go look... I think... it
will even say it in the history
00:06:47.34\00:06:50.41
that the Willow
Grove was started...
00:06:50.44\00:06:52.34
he didn't start
it all by himself...
00:06:52.37\00:06:54.18
but he and several other
people but he loved to preach,
00:06:54.21\00:06:59.28
he loved to
teach Sabbath School,
00:06:59.31\00:07:00.72
we would walk to church
00:07:00.75\00:07:02.68
when we lived in
South Philadelphia,
00:07:02.72\00:07:05.05
the church was
maybe a mile from us,
00:07:05.09\00:07:07.36
we walked... all of us...
00:07:07.39\00:07:08.72
all the children
would walk to church
00:07:08.76\00:07:10.53
and we were there... he
was the Sabbath School teacher
00:07:10.56\00:07:12.63
I mean, the Sabbath
School Superintendent,
00:07:12.66\00:07:14.40
so we had to be there on time.
00:07:14.43\00:07:16.56
Church was our life.
00:07:16.60\00:07:17.93
You know, I'm hearing...
what I'm hearing you say is that
00:07:17.97\00:07:22.17
your dad taught
you a number of things,
00:07:22.20\00:07:24.47
spirituality... and not...
00:07:24.51\00:07:25.94
this is not to negate
what your mom taught you
00:07:25.97\00:07:28.14
but as I listen to
you, I'm thinking that
00:07:28.18\00:07:31.51
he implanted certain things in
you... a good strong work ethic
00:07:31.55\00:07:36.08
"integrity" was
the name of his company
00:07:36.12\00:07:39.35
and so, all of these things
are preparing you for service
00:07:39.39\00:07:46.26
preparing you to do
what God had for you to do
00:07:46.29\00:07:50.47
and I remember we
interviewed someone here
00:07:50.50\00:07:54.60
about how children succeed
and that's the name of this book
00:07:54.64\00:07:58.97
his name is Paul Tough
and he was talking about
00:07:59.01\00:08:00.91
what makes a person successful,
00:08:00.94\00:08:04.21
how do you help a
child to be successful
00:08:04.25\00:08:07.08
and one of the
things is character building
00:08:07.12\00:08:09.88
it was not just about academics,
it's about character building
00:08:09.95\00:08:13.25
and that's what your dad
00:08:13.32\00:08:14.66
was doing with you...
it sounds as though...
00:08:14.69\00:08:17.49
he was helping to
build your character,
00:08:17.53\00:08:20.56
your integrity,
your work ethic...
00:08:20.60\00:08:23.06
getting you prepared for life.
00:08:23.10\00:08:25.53
That's also one of the reasons
00:08:25.57\00:08:27.90
why Adventist
education is so important too
00:08:27.94\00:08:30.21
because it helps with
that character building.
00:08:30.24\00:08:32.07
Yvonne: Absolutely.
00:08:32.11\00:08:33.44
I actually didn't go
to the Adventist schools,
00:08:33.48\00:08:35.08
Oakwood was my first time that
I went to an Adventist School
00:08:35.14\00:08:39.48
and I was actually very
happy to be there because
00:08:39.51\00:08:42.58
I could participate,
00:08:42.62\00:08:43.95
when I went to public schools,
00:08:43.99\00:08:45.32
they had all kinds of
activities on Friday nights
00:08:45.35\00:08:49.62
and on the Sabbath and
they always had dancing and...
00:08:49.66\00:08:53.86
and so I usually didn't
go, the kids knew I worked
00:08:53.90\00:08:58.03
and so, I was
honored to know that
00:08:58.10\00:09:00.90
they had given me
that Senior Work Day...
00:09:00.94\00:09:03.04
the Senior Work Day
is... all the kids would go out
00:09:03.07\00:09:05.37
and work in the community
and they gave that money
00:09:05.41\00:09:07.78
that day... to certain
students that they thought
00:09:07.81\00:09:10.18
needed some help,
so, I was honored.
00:09:10.21\00:09:12.51
That's great.
00:09:12.55\00:09:13.98
And I felt good to
be able to go to Oakwood
00:09:14.02\00:09:16.08
because my life seemed to open
00:09:16.15\00:09:19.55
and when I got to
Oakwood my first year,
00:09:19.62\00:09:22.36
I was there with
my good friend...
00:09:22.39\00:09:24.03
with Paul Monk,
you know Paul Monk?
00:09:24.06\00:09:25.39
Yvonne: Yes.
00:09:25.43\00:09:26.76
But the second year is when
I saw my beautiful bride-to-be.
00:09:26.80\00:09:31.73
Oh, let's talk about that.
00:09:31.77\00:09:33.23
Yeah, how did you guys
meet, how did that come about?
00:09:33.30\00:09:36.74
You know, I was just trying
to think of how did we meet
00:09:36.81\00:09:40.21
because Paul Monk... you
know... we were very playful...
00:09:40.24\00:09:44.38
and I think the
first time we met is...
00:09:44.41\00:09:49.58
I don't know... maybe
I shouldn't have said it
00:09:49.62\00:09:52.25
but we changed the signs,
00:09:52.29\00:09:54.46
they were doing renovation
on the Girls' bathroom
00:09:54.49\00:09:57.13
and the Boys' bathroom,
we changed the signs...
00:09:57.16\00:09:59.79
Oh, it's a prank now.
00:09:59.83\00:10:02.33
So we did a prank and we had
00:10:02.36\00:10:04.80
Dr. Plumber to go
into the wrong bathroom
00:10:04.83\00:10:06.94
you know... Yvonne:
Was it E.J. Plumber?
00:10:06.97\00:10:09.04
I don't know what it was but
we called him Professor Plumber,
00:10:09.07\00:10:12.47
whatever his first name
was and my wife was in there
00:10:12.51\00:10:16.34
and here is Dr.
Plumber coming in
00:10:16.38\00:10:17.71
and when she came outside
and she saw Paul Monk and I
00:10:17.75\00:10:22.38
she knew that
we had done a prank
00:10:22.42\00:10:24.75
and so, I think that was how
we got introduced to each other.
00:10:24.79\00:10:28.92
Was she angry or...?
00:10:28.96\00:10:30.66
Dr. Williams: She
was... she was kind of angry
00:10:30.69\00:10:33.36
and, as I said, a lot of
times we were supposed to go out
00:10:33.40\00:10:36.26
but we couldn't go out
because I was under punishment.
00:10:36.30\00:10:39.33
I never did anything
really bad but a lot of pranks.
00:10:39.37\00:10:42.17
Yvonne: Ah ha... ah ha...
00:10:42.20\00:10:43.71
And between myself and
Paul Monk we did strange things.
00:10:43.77\00:10:46.78
So how did you go
from her looking at you,
00:10:46.81\00:10:52.28
"Oh this guy is a
prankster" to "Oh, I like him. "
00:10:52.31\00:10:55.32
I think I made the Dean's List.
00:10:55.35\00:10:57.35
Yvonne: Oh... well I
think that will do it.
00:10:57.39\00:10:59.49
Jason: So you
got good grades eh?
00:10:59.52\00:11:02.02
She said, "He's not as
crazy as we think he is,
00:11:02.06\00:11:05.96
he's got a little bit of
sense up there," you know, so...
00:11:05.99\00:11:07.86
Yvonne: So what
did you major in?
00:11:07.90\00:11:10.63
I majored in
Religion and History
00:11:10.67\00:11:13.44
and my wife
actually was a good student,
00:11:13.47\00:11:19.47
she was an
extremely good student,
00:11:19.51\00:11:20.98
she had grown up as a Catholic
and she wanted to be a Nun
00:11:21.01\00:11:24.91
and maybe in her
Sophomore year of college,
00:11:24.95\00:11:31.59
her family went to a tent
revival held by Elder Fordham
00:11:31.65\00:11:37.43
and they all joined the church
00:11:37.46\00:11:38.79
but she had looked up
to the Catholic Church
00:11:38.83\00:11:41.23
and wanted to be a Nun
00:11:41.26\00:11:42.66
and so that put her on
the path to come to Oakwood,
00:11:42.70\00:11:46.74
so, but... her family...
they were all Catholics.
00:11:46.77\00:11:50.21
Wow! that's going to be
an interesting conversion too
00:11:50.24\00:11:53.61
from being Catholic to Adventist
00:11:53.64\00:11:55.64
because there are
quite a few differences...
00:11:55.68\00:11:58.98
quite a few differences.
00:11:59.01\00:12:01.92
You know, I was thinking about
00:12:01.95\00:12:03.79
Dr. Williams was saying that
he wasn't in an Adventist School
00:12:03.82\00:12:08.76
and how they
had... in public school
00:12:08.79\00:12:11.73
all of these distractions,
and dances and all that,
00:12:11.76\00:12:14.63
and I thought about you
00:12:14.66\00:12:16.00
and how you
wanted to public school
00:12:16.03\00:12:18.23
for a minute...
and how, yeah, so...
00:12:18.27\00:12:20.44
Okay, so this is
what happened, right,
00:12:20.50\00:12:22.60
I was going to a
private school, Adventist School
00:12:22.64\00:12:26.17
and I wanted to go
to a public school,
00:12:26.21\00:12:28.34
I wanted to go to
a public high school,
00:12:28.38\00:12:30.28
so, I ended up going
to Arlington High School
00:12:30.31\00:12:33.38
and my mom... Dr.
Williams: Public School?
00:12:33.42\00:12:36.08
Yes... and so my
mom was saying that...
00:12:36.12\00:12:38.72
the first sign... the
first thing you want to do
00:12:38.75\00:12:42.02
on a Friday...
00:12:42.09\00:12:43.43
the first time you want to
do something on a Friday night
00:12:43.46\00:12:46.49
or Sabbath...
and all that stuff,
00:12:46.53\00:12:48.43
I'm pulling you back and you're
going to private school, right?
00:12:48.46\00:12:52.03
I was in that school for
probably... like... 2 to 3 weeks
00:12:52.07\00:12:55.37
at best... and
they had the dance,
00:12:55.40\00:12:58.64
I wanted to go to the
dance, it was Homecoming Dance,
00:12:58.67\00:13:01.14
I wanted to go, she was like,
00:13:01.18\00:13:02.51
"No! you're going
back to private school"
00:13:02.54\00:13:05.05
and that was short-lived.
00:13:05.11\00:13:07.95
I enjoyed... I
went to Abington...
00:13:07.98\00:13:11.12
I enjoyed the
school, people were very nice
00:13:11.15\00:13:13.49
but like I said... I was
kind of socially ostracized
00:13:13.56\00:13:17.23
because all the
important things seemed to be
00:13:17.26\00:13:21.26
either Sabbath or Friday night.
00:13:21.30\00:13:24.43
Did you play sports?
00:13:24.47\00:13:25.80
I did for a
while until, as I said,
00:13:25.83\00:13:28.50
I got up to a certain size...
that's when my father figured
00:13:28.54\00:13:31.91
that we could work in
00:13:31.94\00:13:33.27
Integrity Building
and Construction Company
00:13:33.31\00:13:34.64
but I did run
track, I ran track,
00:13:34.68\00:13:37.61
we... I did wrestling...
00:13:37.65\00:13:39.01
and I think I did a
little bit of football,
00:13:39.05\00:13:41.88
we had weight
classes and I wasn't big
00:13:41.92\00:13:44.82
but for the weight
classes it was all right
00:13:44.85\00:13:48.59
and I was an "End,"
00:13:48.62\00:13:49.99
I was not as athletic
as my other two brothers
00:13:50.03\00:13:53.26
my baby brother was
five years' younger so he...
00:13:53.29\00:13:56.97
but my oldest brother,
Morgan was quite athletic
00:13:57.00\00:14:00.04
and my baby brother, Clinton,
you may have known Clinton...
00:14:00.07\00:14:01.90
Yvonne: I remember Clinton.
Dr. Williams:Clinton Williams Jr
00:14:01.94\00:14:03.54
But I could run... I
could, I mean... that was good
00:14:03.57\00:14:05.94
I was good in... but I
wasn't as coordinated as
00:14:05.97\00:14:08.28
you know, and they could
move their feet and dribble
00:14:08.31\00:14:10.55
and stuff like
that but I could run.
00:14:10.61\00:14:12.21
So when you... when...
after you got out of high school
00:14:12.28\00:14:15.18
and you went to Oakwood
and you're on the Dean's List
00:14:15.22\00:14:17.92
and you're finding that this
is really a good place for you,
00:14:17.95\00:14:21.92
it's a good fit for you
00:14:21.99\00:14:23.32
and you met the
love of your life there
00:14:23.36\00:14:25.46
after you left
Oakwood, what did you do?
00:14:25.49\00:14:27.76
We both graduated because
I had to drop out of school
00:14:27.80\00:14:32.10
one year for financial
reasons and I had to come back
00:14:32.13\00:14:35.90
and I worked at a
place in Pennsylvania
00:14:35.94\00:14:38.77
so it kind of
made me a little...
00:14:38.84\00:14:41.38
a lot serious too... because
my wife caught up with me,
00:14:41.41\00:14:43.85
Margaret caught up with me and
we were in the same grade then
00:14:43.88\00:14:46.82
and a lot of
students had moved on
00:14:46.85\00:14:50.05
so my third year in
school, I was quite serious
00:14:50.09\00:14:53.82
and the fourth
year... I was very serious.
00:14:53.86\00:14:55.76
I was the
President of Student Movement
00:14:55.82\00:14:57.69
and we graduated in May of '62
00:14:57.73\00:15:02.56
and we got
married in August of '62
00:15:02.60\00:15:06.10
so, I dated her for the
four years that she was there
00:15:06.13\00:15:09.60
and right after we
graduated, we got married
00:15:09.64\00:15:13.01
and they called her
to teach at Pine Forge,
00:15:13.04\00:15:16.34
so that was our first... we
lived in a little "Snake House"
00:15:16.38\00:15:20.32
at Pine Forge right
above Elder Sebastian...
00:15:20.35\00:15:23.18
Sister Sebastian... and
she taught there for one year
00:15:23.22\00:15:25.62
and then the next year,
00:15:25.65\00:15:27.69
I said I wanted my career,
I wanted to be a minister
00:15:27.72\00:15:30.83
so she said,
"Let's go to Oakwood"
00:15:30.86\00:15:32.19
so we went to Oakwood,
excuse me... Andrews...
00:15:32.23\00:15:34.06
we went to
Andrews... not Oakwood...
00:15:34.10\00:15:35.80
we went to Andrews
and were there for a year
00:15:35.86\00:15:40.24
and I left
Andrews to be a pastor
00:15:40.27\00:15:42.50
at Oklahoma City, I
had three churches...
00:15:42.54\00:15:45.61
Oklahoma City, Enid and Langston
00:15:45.64\00:15:47.64
and the Lord blessed us,
00:15:47.68\00:15:49.74
I have to say that the
Lord has been good to us
00:15:49.78\00:15:51.38
and my wife was a good
helpmeet she didn't like the...
00:15:51.41\00:15:55.88
she... I wanted her to
learn to play the piano and sing
00:15:55.92\00:16:00.36
but she didn't...
she never to do that,
00:16:00.39\00:16:01.92
she said... she didn't want
to do anything... public life...
00:16:01.99\00:16:05.26
but she supported me,
00:16:05.29\00:16:06.63
you couldn't talk about me...
00:16:06.66\00:16:08.00
her DeWitt... you
couldn't talk about me
00:16:08.03\00:16:10.77
but she supported me
and the Lord blessed me
00:16:10.80\00:16:13.60
and at an Evangelistic
Meeting, we baptized maybe...
00:16:13.64\00:16:17.17
68 people in the
church, we build a new church,
00:16:17.21\00:16:19.74
as soon as we built the church,
00:16:19.77\00:16:21.61
19... the church... we built
it, we had a big dedication,
00:16:21.64\00:16:24.91
they called us to
the mission field.
00:16:24.98\00:16:27.85
So in 1967, we
left to go to the Congo
00:16:27.88\00:16:30.75
and we had one
little girl, Deitrice
00:16:30.79\00:16:33.62
and our second girl
was born in the Congo.
00:16:33.66\00:16:36.99
You pastored three
churches at one time
00:16:37.03\00:16:40.30
and then you built one...
so you were on number four?
00:16:40.33\00:16:43.30
How did you... how did you...
00:16:43.33\00:16:45.73
you must be
excellent with time management,
00:16:45.77\00:16:47.30
how did you manage that?
00:16:47.34\00:16:48.67
Well, I do like to
manage time though,
00:16:48.70\00:16:51.24
I do believe in managing time
and I don't watch a lot of TV
00:16:51.27\00:16:54.74
I may not watch this.
00:16:54.78\00:16:56.71
Yvonne: No, you
have to watch this.
00:16:56.75\00:16:59.21
Well I do... I
believe that time is a gift.
00:16:59.25\00:17:03.08
It's... the most precious gift
that we have... is our time.
00:17:03.12\00:17:08.42
So how do you manage
your time, like... if...
00:17:08.46\00:17:11.39
do you write a schedule
out, do you... what do you do?
00:17:11.43\00:17:15.60
I do have lists... and I
make my list and I prioritize
00:17:15.66\00:17:19.80
after I make a
list I do prioritize it
00:17:19.83\00:17:23.07
and one of the most
helpful books that I ever read
00:17:23.10\00:17:28.14
was given to me by the
President of Southwest Region,
00:17:28.18\00:17:33.08
Elder Robert...
who... we were pastoring...
00:17:33.11\00:17:34.85
it's called: The
Magic of Thinking Big
00:17:34.88\00:17:36.69
and I don't know if you've
ever seen it... the book...
00:17:36.72\00:17:40.02
but I read it two or three times
00:17:40.06\00:17:41.72
and it... it... it
helped me to do things,
00:17:41.76\00:17:45.83
you know, it
showed that you can...
00:17:45.86\00:17:48.03
you can think small...
00:17:48.06\00:17:50.90
it takes as much
time to do small projects
00:17:50.93\00:17:53.30
as it does to do big projects,
to really think outside the box,
00:17:53.34\00:17:58.44
and think big... I don't know
if the book is still around.
00:17:58.47\00:18:01.51
Yvonne: What's
the name of it again?
00:18:01.54\00:18:02.88
"The Magic of Thinking Big"
00:18:02.91\00:18:04.25
and I read it through
for a while or every year
00:18:04.28\00:18:08.98
and I didn't do
everything in it like it said,
00:18:09.02\00:18:13.36
"Go first class when you fly"
00:18:13.39\00:18:14.92
I rarely go first class
00:18:14.96\00:18:17.73
but that's what puts you
in that frame of thinking big
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.86
but most of the
principles I really believed in
00:18:20.90\00:18:25.07
and I believe
in time management.
00:18:25.10\00:18:26.67
When you were at Oakwood, I
want to go back for a minute
00:18:26.70\00:18:30.57
because you got involved
in... this was during the '60s,
00:18:30.61\00:18:34.38
right... and you got involved in
00:18:34.44\00:18:36.28
that whole
Civil Rights Movement.
00:18:36.31\00:18:38.11
Let's talk about the environment
in Huntsville in the '60s.
00:18:38.15\00:18:43.89
I remember it pretty
well but I'd like to know
00:18:43.92\00:18:46.82
what your thoughts are
00:18:46.86\00:18:48.19
and that situation that
you mentioned in your book,
00:18:48.22\00:18:51.79
I'd like to talk about that too.
00:18:51.86\00:18:53.29
Well, you know, I
came from Philadelphia
00:18:53.33\00:18:56.40
and there may have been
racism you know, in the north,
00:18:56.43\00:18:59.77
but it was not overt
so when I came to Oakwood,
00:18:59.80\00:19:04.31
the first time
we came to Oakwood,
00:19:04.34\00:19:05.67
this was the first time
I ever saw signs that said,
00:19:05.71\00:19:08.54
"Colored only" you
know, near the water fountain,
00:19:08.58\00:19:12.48
and the first time I ever
would go into a restaurant
00:19:12.51\00:19:16.38
and be refused to be served.
00:19:16.42\00:19:17.82
Now, my wife's father
was very fair skinned,
00:19:17.85\00:19:20.89
he could pass for
white, he would go in
00:19:20.92\00:19:22.29
and when he came down...
00:19:22.32\00:19:23.83
and purchased food
for the family, you know,
00:19:23.86\00:19:26.49
but we as students,
00:19:26.53\00:19:29.36
we couldn't go into
any of the places there.
00:19:29.40\00:19:32.03
I remember going
to the sister church,
00:19:32.07\00:19:35.57
the Central
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:19:35.60\00:19:39.04
in Huntsville, Alabama,
which was a white church
00:19:39.07\00:19:41.68
and we heard that a choir
was coming from Southern...
00:19:41.71\00:19:46.21
what's the one in Tennessee?
Southern Adventist College
00:19:46.25\00:19:50.75
so we said, "Let's
go over and hear them"
00:19:50.79\00:19:54.86
and so we went over
and sat right in the front,
00:19:54.89\00:19:58.16
we wanted to hear the choir
00:19:58.19\00:19:59.53
and I remember the
man coming out and saying,
00:19:59.56\00:20:02.46
"Will the boys from Oakwood
go to the back of the auditorium
00:20:02.50\00:20:07.10
or go up in the balcony
00:20:07.14\00:20:08.47
and the program will not
continue until you do this"
00:20:08.50\00:20:10.91
and so, that's what we did,
00:20:10.94\00:20:12.71
we got up, little
bit shocked, you know,
00:20:12.74\00:20:14.91
but that's the
first time, actually,
00:20:14.94\00:20:16.98
I'd ever been in
an Adventist church
00:20:17.01\00:20:18.98
and asked to go to the
back or go up into the balcony.
00:20:19.01\00:20:23.15
But we did and we stayed
there, so, a little bit later on
00:20:23.18\00:20:27.12
in 1962 as I mentioned,
00:20:27.16\00:20:29.69
Martin Luther King came there,
we had the biggest gym in...
00:20:29.72\00:20:35.33
in all of Huntsville,
00:20:35.36\00:20:37.37
he came and gave his
"I have a dream" speech,
00:20:37.40\00:20:39.67
and then we studied
the Sabbath School Lesson
00:20:39.70\00:20:41.97
on the brotherhood of
mankind. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:20:42.00\00:20:44.11
Thirteen lessons
in the Sabbath School
00:20:44.14\00:20:47.68
talking about how
Christ came to save man
00:20:47.71\00:20:51.18
and how we're all
related so somebody said,
00:20:51.21\00:20:54.35
I think it was your
father, Benito Hodge,
00:20:54.38\00:20:56.85
he was there, and he
said, "Let's go over... "
00:20:56.89\00:21:00.46
all right... Henry
Wright, Willy Lee and myself,
00:21:00.49\00:21:04.03
your father and somebody else.
00:21:04.06\00:21:06.80
Was Victor Brooks there?
00:21:06.83\00:21:08.16
Yeah, but I don't
think he was there,
00:21:08.20\00:21:09.83
somebody said, "Let's
go over to the Central
00:21:09.86\00:21:11.30
Church and see how
they're taking these lessons. "
00:21:11.33\00:21:13.10
So we went over, on
Sabbath, Sabbath School,
00:21:13.13\00:21:17.01
each one went to
a different class,
00:21:17.04\00:21:19.07
I went to one class... your
father went to another class,
00:21:19.11\00:21:21.44
and Henry Wright and
Willy Lee... as I said...
00:21:21.48\00:21:23.88
Ron Lindsey...
that's the other person.
00:21:23.91\00:21:25.41
Yvonne: Ah...
00:21:25.48\00:21:26.95
And so we went
to... went in and...
00:21:26.98\00:21:28.98
we were in the class
maybe five or six minutes or so
00:21:29.02\00:21:31.95
and then... a lady came
and tapped me on the shoulder
00:21:31.99\00:21:34.86
I said, "Yes,"
00:21:34.89\00:21:37.16
she said, "Can we see
you in the Pastor's Study?"
00:21:37.19\00:21:38.86
when I got to the Pastor's
Study... there was your father,
00:21:38.89\00:21:42.40
there was... all the
other fellows were there
00:21:42.43\00:21:45.27
and the lady said,
"I'm the wife of the pastor,
00:21:45.33\00:21:48.14
he's not here today but
00:21:48.17\00:21:49.94
we want to tell you that you
can't be in this church today,
00:21:49.97\00:21:53.07
this is not your church,
00:21:53.11\00:21:54.91
you have to go
to the First Church
00:21:54.94\00:21:57.65
on the other side of town. "
00:21:57.68\00:21:59.01
And I remember, we
all started arguing,
00:21:59.05\00:22:02.05
"We're studying the
brotherhood of mankind,"
00:22:02.08\00:22:05.22
the man who was there
from the Union, he says,
00:22:05.25\00:22:08.59
"Well, you're not
going to be here today"
00:22:08.62\00:22:11.33
and he says, "When
you get as old as I am...
00:22:11.39\00:22:14.20
you'll
understand that some things
00:22:14.23\00:22:16.16
that you young
people are doing... "
00:22:16.20\00:22:18.03
your father was there...
he pointed to his bald head
00:22:18.10\00:22:21.27
he says... he says...
"I'm as old as you are... "
00:22:21.30\00:22:24.44
he said, "and what do you mean
'when I get as old as you are?'"
00:22:24.47\00:22:27.61
and he said, "Well, fine... "
00:22:27.64\00:22:28.98
he got exasperated, he said,
00:22:29.01\00:22:30.35
that if you
don't leave right now,
00:22:30.38\00:22:31.71
we're going to call the police.
00:22:31.75\00:22:33.08
Yvonne: Hmmm... Dr.
Williams: So, we left...
00:22:33.11\00:22:34.72
and I still remember one
of the men of that church
00:22:34.78\00:22:38.82
coming out crying,
00:22:38.85\00:22:42.02
he actually had tears
running down his face...
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.33
he had a little baby in his arm
00:22:44.39\00:22:45.73
and as he came out, the
tears were dropping down
00:22:45.76\00:22:48.43
and he says, "Please forgive us,
00:22:48.46\00:22:49.80
please forgive us,
we're not all like that here,"
00:22:49.83\00:22:52.57
he says, "some of
us have not learned"
00:22:52.60\00:22:54.70
he says, "we're
not all like that"
00:22:54.74\00:22:56.74
and as we drove
away, that's what he was...
00:22:56.81\00:23:00.88
standing there crying... I
remember the tears coming down
00:23:00.91\00:23:02.84
and maybe 25 to 30 years later,
00:23:02.88\00:23:06.51
my nephew, Dean Calhoun,
was a member of that church
00:23:06.55\00:23:10.12
and he invited me to speak there
00:23:10.15\00:23:11.82
so certainly the
times have changed.
00:23:11.85\00:23:13.66
Yvonne: Yes... Dr.
Williams: Times have changed
00:23:13.69\00:23:16.39
Jason: That's crazy... I
can't imagine being so...
00:23:16.42\00:23:19.06
I can't be in a church or
drink from this water fountain
00:23:19.09\00:23:23.37
because I'm black,
that's nuts... I mean...
00:23:23.40\00:23:26.70
Dr. Williams: Go
back to the '60s.
00:23:26.74\00:23:28.07
Well, we still have racism today
it's just institutionalized
00:23:28.10\00:23:31.64
as opposed to being
just overt but, I mean,
00:23:31.67\00:23:35.61
clearly they didn't have
an understanding of Jesus
00:23:35.64\00:23:38.45
because Jesus loved everybody.
Dr. Williams: He did...
00:23:38.48\00:23:40.72
So, they obviously weren't
studying their Bibles very well.
00:23:40.75\00:23:44.35
And the Sabbath School Lesson
00:23:44.39\00:23:45.72
was on the
Brotherhood of Mankind...
00:23:45.75\00:23:47.46
for a whole quarter they
were studying those lessons
00:23:47.49\00:23:51.79
and it didn't seem
to make much difference
00:23:51.83\00:23:53.86
but I thank God for that
one man who came out there.
00:23:53.90\00:23:57.00
That made a difference
probably in your spirit
00:23:57.03\00:24:00.27
because you saw that not
everybody was feeling that way
00:24:00.34\00:24:04.44
but it so... I
remember during that time,
00:24:04.47\00:24:08.04
I was about... I was
about ten or eleven and
00:24:08.08\00:24:11.58
I remember the
different fountains
00:24:11.61\00:24:14.22
and I... but I
never went to the church,
00:24:14.25\00:24:18.45
but my dad did obviously...
he went to the church in town
00:24:18.52\00:24:21.89
but I never did so that's...
00:24:21.92\00:24:23.53
that was a really
intense period during that time.
00:24:23.56\00:24:27.80
When we got back to the
campus, the kids were going,
00:24:27.83\00:24:30.57
"You should have stayed
there and let them arrest you
00:24:30.60\00:24:33.27
and let it get in the papers"
00:24:33.30\00:24:36.97
we said, "Well, we
didn't want to make
00:24:37.01\00:24:39.74
anything bad out
of it" you know...
00:24:39.77\00:24:42.48
Yeah, yeah, so after
you left there when you went
00:24:42.51\00:24:45.61
and you went to Andrews,
did you encounter racism there
00:24:45.65\00:24:49.92
or was there any...
00:24:49.95\00:24:51.75
No, I don't remember any racism,
that's of course Michigan
00:24:51.79\00:24:57.63
and we were in Huntsville
before but I don't recall
00:24:57.66\00:25:04.07
any racism ever after
that you know... over racism.
00:25:04.10\00:25:10.44
Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
thankfully we don't encounter
00:25:10.47\00:25:16.11
that kind of thing
now and that's a blessing
00:25:16.14\00:25:18.75
but I know that
during those times
00:25:18.78\00:25:20.45
it was an intense time.
00:25:20.52\00:25:22.08
So, after you left
Oakwood, you went to Pine Forge
00:25:22.12\00:25:26.09
and then you went to Andrews,
what got you on the health path,
00:25:26.12\00:25:31.09
because you were doing religion,
00:25:31.13\00:25:32.99
how did you get
on the health path?
00:25:33.03\00:25:35.23
Oh, as I said, we
went to the Congo,
00:25:35.26\00:25:37.43
we spent five
years in the Congo,
00:25:37.47\00:25:38.90
Lubumbashi and then
Kinshasa, we came back,
00:25:38.93\00:25:43.30
I went to the Indiana University
and got my Doctorate there
00:25:43.34\00:25:45.81
and then I went into the
00:25:45.84\00:25:48.68
Communications
Department for five years,
00:25:48.71\00:25:52.61
and we went back to Africa,
we went to Burundi and Rwanda
00:25:52.65\00:25:57.39
and then we came back... and...
00:25:57.45\00:25:59.32
What's it like
being a missionary?
00:25:59.35\00:26:01.56
Well, I actually
enjoyed it very much
00:26:01.59\00:26:03.73
I'm not a 100 percent sure
that my wife was enthusiastic.
00:26:03.79\00:26:08.06
What were the
living conditions like?
00:26:08.10\00:26:11.80
Well, the living
conditions were pretty good
00:26:11.83\00:26:14.50
and there was a
little bit of racism there
00:26:14.54\00:26:17.94
and we didn't...
she didn't like the way
00:26:17.97\00:26:21.34
many of the missionaries
treated the Africans.
00:26:21.38\00:26:25.38
Yvonne: Hmmm...
that's interesting...
00:26:25.41\00:26:28.28
Yeah, some of them very
paternalistic and demeaning
00:26:28.32\00:26:32.92
but many of them
were not, you know
00:26:32.95\00:26:36.32
and I... I was young
then so I was pushing...
00:26:36.36\00:26:39.69
I was the President of
the Central African Union
00:26:39.73\00:26:43.00
it was Rwanda and
Burundi, we had seven fields
00:26:43.03\00:26:45.00
and I put in the
African Presidents...
00:26:45.03\00:26:47.77
and I called a man
over to help me to...
00:26:47.80\00:26:50.94
who I knew, you
know, and we just clashed,
00:26:50.97\00:26:54.61
I couldn't
believe it, I knew him
00:26:54.64\00:26:56.28
and I thought
we grew up together
00:26:56.31\00:26:57.88
he's black and we just...
he was... he didn't see pushing
00:26:57.91\00:27:03.79
he said, "They're not
ready, everybody is not ready"
00:27:03.82\00:27:05.42
so I put in Dr.
Ofuku at Mugonero Hospital,
00:27:05.45\00:27:08.36
and I put in
another doctor at Gateway,
00:27:08.39\00:27:11.26
I put in all the presidents
and so... maybe kind of...
00:27:11.29\00:27:15.70
I think I was pushing too
fast and so when I came back
00:27:15.76\00:27:20.14
for furlough, my wife said,
she says, "I'm not going...
00:27:20.17\00:27:26.11
I don't want to
go back to Africa"
00:27:26.14\00:27:27.48
so, she didn't go back,
I actually had to go back
00:27:27.51\00:27:31.75
and pack up and that was the
end of the missionary career,
00:27:31.78\00:27:36.75
I would have gone on
but she... she was just...
00:27:36.79\00:27:39.02
just had pretty
much... enough of it.
00:27:39.05\00:27:41.46
Why didn't she want to go back?
00:27:41.49\00:27:42.82
Dr. Williams: Why didn't
she? Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:27:42.86\00:27:44.89
Well, like I said,
I didn't get along and
00:27:44.93\00:27:47.40
we didn't get along
00:27:47.43\00:27:48.76
with the other
couple that we brought over
00:27:48.80\00:27:51.53
and the kids were in
Maxwell Academy in Kenya
00:27:51.57\00:27:56.57
and when we came by
to... on our way home
00:27:56.60\00:28:00.61
Darnella, the one
that you saw today,
00:28:00.64\00:28:04.05
she was having
difficulties in school
00:28:04.08\00:28:07.42
and my wife said,
00:28:07.45\00:28:09.08
that she has to be there in that
school the next year because
00:28:09.12\00:28:11.65
the teacher taught...
maybe... multiple grades...
00:28:11.69\00:28:14.32
and she didn't
want that to happen.
00:28:14.36\00:28:16.49
Elder Battle did
everything he could, you know,
00:28:16.52\00:28:18.86
he said, "Well,
we'll bring the kids home
00:28:18.89\00:28:21.10
and we'll have them go to
live with your... her mom... "
00:28:21.13\00:28:23.13
my wife's mom, Margaret's mother
00:28:23.16\00:28:24.80
and... but she just made up
her mind... she wasn't going...
00:28:24.83\00:28:27.74
that's the first time I
saw her put her foot down
00:28:27.77\00:28:29.44
on something I wanted to do
00:28:29.47\00:28:30.97
but she was not going back
00:28:31.01\00:28:33.21
and Elder Battle says,
00:28:33.24\00:28:35.38
"You left the
General Conference... "
00:28:35.41\00:28:37.21
he says, "so, we want you to go
back to the General Conference"
00:28:37.25\00:28:39.81
so I... this is when
I wrote the first book
00:28:39.88\00:28:41.62
there's... I
was... this was 1982,
00:28:41.65\00:28:47.32
we came back in 1982 and
for almost nine months or so
00:28:47.36\00:28:50.83
we didn't have a job
but I'd go, you know,
00:28:50.86\00:28:53.40
giving mission stories
and stuff and... but I...
00:28:53.43\00:28:56.56
and then I started my first book
00:28:56.60\00:28:58.30
and by then I had a
call to go into the...
00:28:58.33\00:29:03.24
they called it the
Health and Temperance Department
00:29:03.27\00:29:06.57
at that time and I
didn't have any background
00:29:06.61\00:29:09.91
in Health and
Temperance, as a matter of fact,
00:29:09.94\00:29:12.08
I wasn't too
healthy... I don't believe
00:29:12.11\00:29:16.52
but I could... the
Department... it saved my life
00:29:16.55\00:29:18.99
because I changed my lifestyle,
00:29:19.02\00:29:20.56
I wasn't a vegetarian but,
you know, when I came in...
00:29:20.62\00:29:23.73
I started reading Ellen White's
books, Ministry of Healing,
00:29:23.76\00:29:27.03
boy! when I got into that
chapter about vegetarianism,
00:29:27.06\00:29:30.03
flesh foods... oh!
00:29:30.07\00:29:32.30
I said, "I can't be in
the Department and not lead"
00:29:32.33\00:29:36.20
so, I prayed and
prayed and prayed
00:29:36.24\00:29:39.74
and I became a
vegetarian in 1983,
00:29:39.77\00:29:41.58
I've been an
Adventist all my life
00:29:41.61\00:29:43.38
but that was the first
time I became a vegetarian.
00:29:43.41\00:29:45.81
I wasn't all that
active but I saw...
00:29:45.85\00:29:48.05
read that chapter
about being active,
00:29:48.08\00:29:51.12
and I started
running, I ran in 1987,
00:29:51.15\00:29:54.09
I got enough behind me to
run the Marine Corp Marathon.
00:29:54.12\00:29:57.73
So, it actually... and
then they sent me to...
00:29:57.76\00:30:02.03
to Loma Linda to get my
Master's in public health.
00:30:02.06\00:30:06.27
Back then you could do...
they had an off-campus program
00:30:06.33\00:30:11.14
so I could be at home and
00:30:11.17\00:30:13.38
I went to Loma
Linda from time to time
00:30:13.41\00:30:18.08
so, it changed my life.
00:30:18.11\00:30:21.02
I was a... I felt like a
dummy, really, in the Department
00:30:21.05\00:30:24.79
before... in the other
Departments I felt competent
00:30:24.85\00:30:27.12
but here we had medical doctors
and some men had medical...
00:30:27.16\00:30:32.96
MD, Ph. D. and I didn't
really know too much about it
00:30:32.99\00:30:38.13
but I prayed and as I
said, it changed my life.
00:30:38.20\00:30:41.74
It must have been a
calling because the Lord knew
00:30:41.77\00:30:45.77
that you needed to be there
00:30:45.81\00:30:47.14
because you didn't have
any experience with that...
00:30:47.18\00:30:48.51
Dr. Williams: No experience...
00:30:48.54\00:30:49.88
So the fact that
they put you in there,
00:30:49.91\00:30:51.51
that's really interesting.
00:30:51.55\00:30:52.88
And from 1983
until I retired in 2010,
00:30:52.91\00:30:55.85
that's what I did,
health... health and temperance.
00:30:55.88\00:30:59.29
I traveled all over the world
doing "Stop Smoking" programs
00:30:59.32\00:31:03.36
I did "Stop Smoking"
programs in Turkey and Kuwait
00:31:03.39\00:31:06.03
and Jordan and Egypt and
all over the Country here,
00:31:06.06\00:31:09.46
I did stuff for
people... but it sure wasn't...
00:31:09.50\00:31:12.40
oh my! when I left
Oakwood, that was not my agenda.
00:31:12.43\00:31:15.30
Now, when you were a missionary,
00:31:15.34\00:31:18.67
what were some of the things
that you saw in those countries,
00:31:18.71\00:31:23.48
the way the people lived,
the way they perceived life,
00:31:23.51\00:31:27.18
how different is that
from the way we are here?
00:31:27.22\00:31:30.75
Well, poverty was... that
was really a difficult thing...
00:31:30.79\00:31:39.16
poverty, they
told us at one time
00:31:39.19\00:31:43.93
that every time
you baptized a member,
00:31:43.97\00:31:45.97
it was a liability
because you know...
00:31:46.00\00:31:47.90
here you baptize somebody,
they pay tithe and everything...
00:31:47.94\00:31:50.27
but when you
baptize somebody there,
00:31:50.31\00:31:51.71
you have to take care of them,
00:31:51.74\00:31:53.27
it was a liability, you know.
00:31:53.31\00:31:54.81
They didn't
discourage you from baptizing...
00:31:54.84\00:31:58.95
So you got to think...
you got to preach, you know,
00:31:58.98\00:32:01.62
but it was a difficult thing.
00:32:01.68\00:32:03.82
The level of education...
there was a great disparity
00:32:03.85\00:32:07.99
of getting qualified workers,
00:32:08.02\00:32:10.53
it broke your heart
to... to... to know that
00:32:10.56\00:32:18.03
we didn't have as many qualified
teachers and preachers,
00:32:18.07\00:32:20.67
we would send some to
America and some to Europe
00:32:20.70\00:32:25.21
and I'm so thankful today that
00:32:25.24\00:32:26.94
God has made
provision to where now...
00:32:26.98\00:32:28.54
on African soil, we have, maybe,
six universities now, I think,
00:32:28.58\00:32:34.02
maybe more, bona
fide universities
00:32:34.05\00:32:38.15
and graduating BA
students and Ph. D. students
00:32:38.19\00:32:42.69
and you know, God has really...
00:32:42.72\00:32:44.06
the time that we...
we came back in 1982
00:32:44.09\00:32:46.86
it's just unbelievable
00:32:46.90\00:32:48.33
what has happened on
the African Continent.
00:32:48.36\00:32:50.70
You know, Dr. Baker, just now,
00:32:50.73\00:32:53.64
went to be the President
of University of Africa
00:32:53.67\00:32:57.74
there in Kenya... well
that's a beautiful university
00:32:57.77\00:32:59.97
but they have one
in... another one in Baraton
00:33:00.01\00:33:02.54
they have... I
think there are seven,
00:33:02.58\00:33:05.11
there may be eight universities
on the continent of Africa.
00:33:05.15\00:33:08.48
So the standard of education,
00:33:08.52\00:33:10.39
once you start raising
that standard of education,
00:33:10.42\00:33:13.56
then, things begin to happen.
00:33:13.62\00:33:15.56
Yvonne: Absolutely.
00:33:15.59\00:33:16.93
And now I think all
the Leaders of Africa
00:33:16.96\00:33:19.49
are... all the conferences...
all the missions...
00:33:19.53\00:33:24.67
all the divisions are
led by financial leadership
00:33:24.70\00:33:29.77
so, God has blessed.
00:33:29.80\00:33:32.27
You know, one of the things that
really gripes me about media
00:33:32.34\00:33:36.88
is that... all you see when
you see programs about Africa
00:33:36.91\00:33:41.52
is the jungle, I
never see cities,
00:33:41.55\00:33:45.32
I never see civilization,
you always see primitive folks
00:33:45.35\00:33:52.73
in Africa, and
I think, you know,
00:33:52.76\00:33:55.63
it just kind of makes
me crazy because I know...
00:33:55.66\00:33:58.83
I know that originally
education came out of Africa,
00:33:58.87\00:34:01.97
Egypt was a huge
mecca for information
00:34:02.00\00:34:06.01
in fact, in Medicine and
Mathematics and all that,
00:34:06.04\00:34:08.78
the seat of
civilization was in Egypt
00:34:08.81\00:34:12.55
so, I... I... it's
like... when I see on television
00:34:12.58\00:34:16.48
that all we show is the jungle,
that just makes me think...
00:34:16.52\00:34:21.19
Dr. Williams: Some
beautiful cities in Africa.
00:34:21.22\00:34:22.62
Yvonne: We never see them.
00:34:22.66\00:34:23.99
We lived in
Lubumbashi, Kinshasa,
00:34:24.03\00:34:26.86
that's a gorgeous, gorgeous city
00:34:26.90\00:34:29.73
in Rwanda... Kigali...
00:34:29.76\00:34:33.37
when we were there,
Kigali wasn't a great city,
00:34:33.40\00:34:37.57
but since 1994,
they had all of those...
00:34:37.61\00:34:40.71
you know, the Tutsi
and the Hutu problems,
00:34:40.74\00:34:43.95
they have come back now
00:34:43.98\00:34:46.15
and built the
southern... it's a beautiful...
00:34:46.18\00:34:48.95
we have a beautiful
university in Kigali now.
00:34:48.98\00:34:50.49
We have universities...
00:34:50.52\00:34:52.22
makes you poke
out your chest now...
00:34:52.25\00:34:54.59
and the nationals... they
speak, three and four and five
00:34:54.62\00:35:00.63
and six different
languages, you know,
00:35:00.66\00:35:02.63
Americans are... you
know, we speak one language
00:35:02.66\00:35:05.73
but they know
their national language,
00:35:05.77\00:35:08.80
they know
English, they know French,
00:35:08.84\00:35:11.77
they know the
different tribal languages,
00:35:11.84\00:35:15.01
they're very...
very brilliant people.
00:35:15.04\00:35:16.68
You know a couple of languages
too, what languages do you know?
00:35:16.71\00:35:20.22
Well, I did learn French
and Swahili... really good,
00:35:20.25\00:35:25.29
and I learned a little... a few
others but those two I learned.
00:35:25.32\00:35:27.96
Yvonne: Say
something in Swahili.
00:35:27.99\00:35:29.36
Jason: See, I was
going to ask that question.
00:35:29.42\00:35:31.33
Dr. Williams: Ahhh...
say something in Swahili?
00:35:31.36\00:35:33.46
Now that you're asking
me, I can't even think,
00:35:33.50\00:35:36.87
you have to tell me
what you want me to say.
00:35:36.90\00:35:40.24
Yvonne: I live in America.
00:35:40.27\00:35:41.97
Dr. Williams:
Maisha katika America
00:35:42.00\00:35:46.07
Yvonne: Maisha katik...?
00:35:46.11\00:35:47.74
Dr. Williams: katika America...
Yvonne: Maisha Katika...
00:35:47.78\00:35:50.41
Dr. Williams:
America... yeah... Yvonne: Okay.
00:35:50.45\00:35:52.18
in the
Lubumbashi and in Kinshasa
00:35:52.21\00:35:58.35
in Kinshasa they
spoke more Lingala,
00:35:58.39\00:36:00.06
we didn't speak what they
called really good Swahili,
00:36:00.09\00:36:03.83
they called it Swahili Mbaya...
00:36:03.86\00:36:07.30
it was kind of a... they
mixed Swahili with French
00:36:07.33\00:36:11.00
you'd have to go to Tanzania...
00:36:11.03\00:36:13.17
Tanzania is where they
spoke really good Swahili
00:36:13.20\00:36:18.34
but I preached in
it when I was there
00:36:18.37\00:36:21.18
Nilihubiri katika Swahili
00:36:21.21\00:36:24.78
I spoke... I preached
in it when I was there,
00:36:24.81\00:36:27.38
but that was 19...
I came back in 1982...
00:36:27.42\00:36:31.22
How do you say, "God
bless you" in Swahili?
00:36:31.25\00:36:34.99
Mungu... I don't know...
I don't remember anymore...
00:36:35.02\00:36:41.36
How long did it
take you to learn it?
00:36:41.40\00:36:44.13
As I said, we were
there for eight years
00:36:44.17\00:36:46.87
and Mungu... oh! wow!
00:36:46.94\00:36:51.74
and I spoke more
French than I did Swahili...
00:36:51.77\00:36:54.64
and I don't... I haven't spoken
a lot of Swahili since I left
00:36:54.68\00:36:59.91
but I have spoken French
00:36:59.98\00:37:02.48
so I've kind of
kept up with French
00:37:02.52\00:37:04.55
and we were sent to Neuchâtel,
Switzerland to learn French,
00:37:04.62\00:37:09.19
we spent six
months in Switzerland
00:37:09.22\00:37:12.06
to learn French, so...
00:37:12.09\00:37:13.50
And how long did it take
for you to learn Swahili?
00:37:13.53\00:37:16.93
Swahili was kind
of... "after thing"
00:37:16.97\00:37:20.70
you know, we do it after work,
00:37:20.74\00:37:22.20
we had classes after work,
00:37:22.24\00:37:23.87
one of the pastors
came and taught us Swahili
00:37:23.91\00:37:28.84
so I never did have the depth
00:37:28.88\00:37:31.28
of Swahili training
that I had in French
00:37:31.31\00:37:35.02
but my reading still
is good. Jason: Okay.
00:37:35.05\00:37:38.72
I just... I
just haven't used it,
00:37:38.75\00:37:40.86
you kind of
caught me by surprise...
00:37:40.92\00:37:42.99
I'm just thinking, Mungu...
00:37:43.02\00:37:46.56
It will come to you
probably before we end.
00:37:46.59\00:37:49.50
Yvonne: It will come back.
Dr. Williams: Oh! I tell you...
00:37:49.56\00:37:53.37
Let's talk about your
wife because she became ill,
00:37:53.40\00:37:57.64
what happened?
00:37:57.67\00:37:59.11
Well, as I say,
00:37:59.14\00:38:01.24
we were married a long time
00:38:01.28\00:38:06.18
before we started
noticing anything was wrong
00:38:06.21\00:38:10.29
and I guess,
around maybe 1995ish...
00:38:10.32\00:38:17.63
so, we had been married
maybe 30... 35 years or so,
00:38:17.66\00:38:22.66
she started
stumbling a little bit,
00:38:22.70\00:38:25.63
we'd be walking
and she'd stumble,
00:38:25.70\00:38:28.44
we'd go to get... have
a prayer... you know...
00:38:28.47\00:38:33.88
everybody on Friday evening,
you open and close the Sabbath,
00:38:33.91\00:38:36.64
open the Sabbath or Sabbath
00:38:36.68\00:38:38.25
you close... Sabbath evening,
00:38:38.28\00:38:39.78
we'd kneel down and
she couldn't get up...
00:38:39.81\00:38:42.75
somebody had to help her up
00:38:42.78\00:38:46.82
and the more time went on,
00:38:46.86\00:38:50.86
she would stumble more,
and then she started falling,
00:38:50.89\00:38:56.67
not only
stumbling... but she'd fall,
00:38:56.70\00:38:58.80
and every time she fell, usually
00:38:58.83\00:39:00.90
she'd hit her
head, oh... she'd fall...
00:39:00.94\00:39:04.54
we'd be walking in the street,
you know, walking with her,
00:39:04.57\00:39:07.01
maybe even holding her hand
00:39:07.04\00:39:08.88
and she'd stumble and
kind of like pull you down,
00:39:08.91\00:39:12.58
we started saying,
00:39:12.61\00:39:14.52
"Well, there must
be something wrong"
00:39:14.55\00:39:15.88
and so I took her to a
couple of doctors and...
00:39:15.92\00:39:19.62
and nobody knew
exactly what was wrong and
00:39:19.65\00:39:23.16
they did, one of the
pastors... one of my friends...
00:39:23.19\00:39:27.96
he said, "When
we go in to Toronto
00:39:28.00\00:39:29.86
to have the General Conference
Session there in Toronto...
00:39:29.90\00:39:32.17
you need to take
her to a doctor there
00:39:32.20\00:39:33.74
because... the
Canadian doctors...
00:39:33.77\00:39:35.20
they see people who come
in from traveling overseas
00:39:35.24\00:39:39.54
and worked in
Africa" and... so we did...
00:39:39.57\00:39:41.64
In 2000, I took her in to...
I think it was Queen's Hospital,
00:39:41.68\00:39:47.22
I don't remember the
name of the Hospital,
00:39:47.25\00:39:48.58
but they examined her,
00:39:48.62\00:39:49.95
they gave her a
really good examination
00:39:49.98\00:39:52.65
maybe... two or three
hours... and it was a team...
00:39:52.69\00:39:56.02
and they said,
00:39:56.06\00:39:57.43
"Well, it's nothing
wrong with her nerves...
00:39:57.46\00:39:59.29
we think it's her muscles
and if we had to do anything,
00:39:59.33\00:40:04.30
we would say, it's
Muscular Dystrophy"
00:40:04.33\00:40:06.94
and so at least we had
some idea of what was happening.
00:40:06.97\00:40:11.71
What's the difference between
Muscular Dystrophy and MS...
00:40:11.74\00:40:16.48
Multiple Sclerosis?
00:40:16.51\00:40:18.15
Well, one... MS, I understand
is the sheaths of the nerves...
00:40:18.18\00:40:23.89
it produces the same thing where
people can't move and so forth
00:40:23.92\00:40:29.59
but Muscular Dystrophy
is actual nerves that...
00:40:29.62\00:40:33.40
and there are five or
six or seven different kinds
00:40:33.43\00:40:37.13
you know, Lou
Gehrig's Disease, I understand,
00:40:37.17\00:40:39.90
is a form of muscular...
there's a Duchenne...
00:40:39.93\00:40:42.57
we never did find
out exactly what she has
00:40:42.60\00:40:45.21
but her younger brother, Jimmy,
00:40:45.24\00:40:47.38
he had Muscular
Dystrophy, he just had it later
00:40:47.44\00:40:51.81
and he actually died
last... last... two years ago
00:40:51.85\00:40:56.18
and he was younger,
00:40:56.22\00:40:57.65
Pearl... is in a hospital
with Muscular Dystrophy.
00:40:57.69\00:41:02.16
Jason: Is it hereditary?
00:41:02.19\00:41:03.69
Apparently, familial,
yeah, but Margaret kept falling
00:41:03.73\00:41:09.10
and finally we decided that
00:41:09.13\00:41:11.50
we're going to
make her wear a helmet
00:41:11.53\00:41:13.00
because, like I
said, every time she fell,
00:41:13.03\00:41:15.30
she didn't have enough strength
00:41:15.37\00:41:17.91
to stop her
from hitting her head
00:41:17.94\00:41:21.21
and pretty soon it got to be...
00:41:21.24\00:41:24.41
to the point where
she had to have a walker
00:41:24.45\00:41:29.52
and maybe the
last... I retired in 2010
00:41:29.55\00:41:34.52
and I thought we would
spend some of those miles
00:41:34.59\00:41:38.16
and travel all over the world,
00:41:38.19\00:41:39.53
those airline miles
that I had been accumulating
00:41:39.56\00:41:41.90
and that's when she
started to really...
00:41:41.93\00:41:45.00
that's the point where
she pretty much couldn't do
00:41:45.03\00:41:48.90
too much by herself, you know,
00:41:48.94\00:41:50.51
we would put her in a
wheelchair and take her places,
00:41:50.54\00:41:53.91
we took her to Oakwood
for our 50th anniversary
00:41:53.94\00:41:57.11
in 19... in 2012...
00:41:57.15\00:42:00.65
that was our 50th anniversary
from when we graduated
00:42:00.68\00:42:05.09
but she was in a wheelchair
and then... maybe 2013...
00:42:05.12\00:42:09.49
it got worse... and the last...
00:42:09.52\00:42:13.46
maybe a year and
a half of her life,
00:42:13.50\00:42:15.93
she was confined to her bed
00:42:15.96\00:42:17.57
and that was kind of
a rough... you know...
00:42:17.60\00:42:22.60
to see your bride
of so many years...
00:42:22.64\00:42:25.87
not able to get up and get out
and my daughter moved in with me
00:42:25.91\00:42:31.21
and we got a...
we got a ceiling lift
00:42:31.28\00:42:37.29
because it was difficult,
00:42:37.32\00:42:38.65
she couldn't get
up to bathe herself,
00:42:38.69\00:42:40.69
she couldn't get up
to go to the bathroom,
00:42:40.72\00:42:43.26
we took her outside every day,
we loved her right to the end...
00:42:43.29\00:42:48.76
we took her... and when
we had the memorial service,
00:42:48.80\00:42:51.63
I was surprised
at how many people...
00:42:51.67\00:42:53.20
we lived in a Over-55 Community,
people that I didn't even know,
00:42:53.23\00:42:57.01
they said, "Well,
we just saw her... "
00:42:57.04\00:42:59.94
and we took her
outside everyday,
00:42:59.97\00:43:02.08
maybe for two
hours... three hours...
00:43:02.11\00:43:04.61
I bought flowers
for her every week,
00:43:04.65\00:43:07.05
we had people over, you
know, and maybe the last...
00:43:07.08\00:43:15.32
last six or seven months,
00:43:15.36\00:43:18.13
they were
difficult months for her
00:43:18.16\00:43:19.49
and I just kind of...
it was just difficult.
00:43:19.53\00:43:26.84
You know... that's...
that's real love... when you...
00:43:26.87\00:43:31.57
you made the
commitment before God
00:43:31.61\00:43:35.04
and you took care
of her to the end...
00:43:35.08\00:43:38.41
you continued to...
she was still your bride...
00:43:38.45\00:43:41.78
you continued
to buy her flowers,
00:43:41.82\00:43:43.79
continued to...
00:43:43.82\00:43:45.15
And she got sweeter and sweeter,
00:43:45.19\00:43:46.52
you know, she
could be fiery sometimes,
00:43:46.55\00:43:48.36
she had Texas fire in
her... she... she would say...
00:43:48.42\00:43:53.53
Sabbath especially,
"Let's call Clinton. "
00:43:53.56\00:43:55.60
I said, "My brother,
Clinton?" because she...
00:43:55.63\00:43:57.63
she clashed head with Clinton,
00:43:57.67\00:43:59.70
she said, "No, I
want to talk to Clinton"
00:43:59.73\00:44:01.20
"Okay... okay... " she'd
say, "Let's call Richard"
00:44:01.24\00:44:04.37
I'd say, "My brother
Richard?" she'd say, "Yeah. "
00:44:04.44\00:44:05.77
But she got sweet
and sweet and sweet.
00:44:05.81\00:44:10.68
Oh... we praise the
Lord for husbands like you,
00:44:10.71\00:44:14.98
because...
00:44:15.02\00:44:16.35
Actually, she went so
fast... we took her...
00:44:16.38\00:44:17.72
I would... we left
Thursday, we took her into a...
00:44:17.75\00:44:20.42
to get her flu shot and
I was telling the doctor,
00:44:20.46\00:44:23.29
I said, "This hasn't
been a good week for my wife,"
00:44:23.32\00:44:25.93
I said, "She... she's
had a little pain... "
00:44:25.96\00:44:31.00
because that Monday
night, she coughed a lot and
00:44:31.03\00:44:34.74
Tuesday night, she
just... she had a lot of pain,
00:44:34.77\00:44:38.44
and she didn't
usually have pain...
00:44:38.47\00:44:40.11
that was one of the
things we were thankful for,
00:44:40.14\00:44:41.91
I said, "Wednesday night
she didn't sleep well... "
00:44:41.94\00:44:43.88
he says, "You'd better
take her over to the hospital"
00:44:43.91\00:44:45.81
and he said,
"because I don't have... "
00:44:45.85\00:44:47.65
he said, they needed
to take X-rays and so...
00:44:47.68\00:44:51.12
I wheeled her in the
wheelchair to the hospital
00:44:51.15\00:44:54.56
which was about
three blocks away,
00:44:54.59\00:44:55.92
and she never...
she never came home...
00:44:55.96\00:45:00.56
we took her there
and... they started doing...
00:45:00.60\00:45:03.57
they said she had
a stone in her kidney
00:45:03.60\00:45:05.50
and she had fluid in
her lungs and her sodium...
00:45:05.53\00:45:08.90
I never heard that
before... her sodium was low,
00:45:08.94\00:45:12.27
they said, "We have to... "
00:45:12.31\00:45:13.88
so they admitted
her that Thursday night
00:45:13.91\00:45:16.81
and then they sent
her to Johns Hopkins,
00:45:16.85\00:45:19.71
this was the Laurel Hospital,
00:45:19.75\00:45:21.18
but they sent
her to Johns Hopkins
00:45:21.22\00:45:22.55
and at first they were
trying to bring up her sodium,
00:45:22.58\00:45:28.09
so that Thursday
and Friday and Sabbath
00:45:28.12\00:45:30.89
and Sunday and...
something happened on...
00:45:30.93\00:45:33.90
so, I went in on Monday,
00:45:33.93\00:45:35.26
I couldn't
believe it was my wife,
00:45:35.30\00:45:39.53
they had tubes all in her...
they said that that night,
00:45:39.57\00:45:43.91
she had some kind
of... like a... an attack...
00:45:43.94\00:45:47.51
and so, when I
went in on Monday,
00:45:47.54\00:45:52.08
I called Darnell,
I said, "Darnell... "
00:45:52.11\00:45:54.58
I said, "I'm down in the
chapel" because I just...
00:45:54.62\00:45:58.45
I couldn't be there, I
just went down in the chapel,
00:45:58.49\00:46:02.29
and there were
some Muslims there,
00:46:02.32\00:46:04.29
I said... as one was praying,
00:46:04.33\00:46:06.70
I said, "Do you pray
for people... other people?"
00:46:06.73\00:46:09.20
I said, "Would
you pray for my wife?"
00:46:09.23\00:46:10.57
he never answered me,
00:46:10.60\00:46:12.10
I said it again, I said,
00:46:12.13\00:46:13.57
"Sir... " I said, "My wife is...
00:46:13.60\00:46:15.14
I said, "could
you pray for my wife?"
00:46:15.20\00:46:17.11
so, he didn't answer me
so, another one came in,
00:46:17.17\00:46:22.21
and I mentioned
it to him, he had...
00:46:22.24\00:46:23.91
and he says,
"Sure, I'll pray for you"
00:46:23.95\00:46:25.48
and then, by then, the other
man he said, "I was praying,
00:46:25.51\00:46:27.98
and I couldn't answer
you while I was praying... "
00:46:28.02\00:46:29.55
he said, "I did
pray for your wife"
00:46:29.58\00:46:30.99
Yvonne: Oh, okay...
00:46:31.02\00:46:32.35
And so, she... she
was almost unconscious
00:46:32.39\00:46:36.83
from then on... she
passed on the Sabbath
00:46:36.86\00:46:41.36
and they anointed her,
I think it was, Tuesday,
00:46:41.40\00:46:44.93
they anointed
her, they came over...
00:46:45.00\00:46:46.74
the pastors came
and they anointed her.
00:46:46.77\00:46:48.47
Was she able to
speak or anything?
00:46:48.50\00:46:51.34
No, that Sabbath
morning, they mentioned that...
00:46:51.37\00:46:55.84
they said, "Now, are you
good with us taking her off... "
00:46:55.88\00:46:59.45
she was on a
respirator and they said,
00:46:59.51\00:47:01.58
"We have to tell you that...
00:47:01.62\00:47:03.08
she'll may not do
well if we take her off"
00:47:03.12\00:47:05.15
we said, "Yes, we're prepared,"
my daughter's a Physician,
00:47:05.19\00:47:07.96
she flew in that
Sabbath and as I said,
00:47:07.99\00:47:10.53
Friday... all that...
Sunday, Monday, Tuesday...
00:47:10.56\00:47:12.46
she's kind of like... comatose,
00:47:12.49\00:47:13.83
when my daughter,
Deitrice came there,
00:47:13.86\00:47:15.96
she was sitting up,
00:47:16.00\00:47:17.63
because we told
her... we told her,
00:47:17.67\00:47:19.30
"Deitrice's coming tomorrow"
and we couldn't believe it,
00:47:19.33\00:47:23.71
her eyes were open,
they put her hands...
00:47:23.74\00:47:25.71
some gloves on her hands because
she was pulling things out
00:47:25.74\00:47:28.48
and she was sitting up,
00:47:28.51\00:47:30.71
and her hands
were moving up and down
00:47:30.75\00:47:32.71
and backwards and forward and...
00:47:32.75\00:47:34.08
and we... we talked
with her for about an hour
00:47:34.12\00:47:37.89
and then they...
00:47:37.92\00:47:39.25
after they had taken
her off the respirator
00:47:39.29\00:47:40.72
and then she just
put her head back,
00:47:40.76\00:47:45.59
so, that's... is
still... November 7...
00:47:45.63\00:47:50.13
November 7... Yvonne: What year?
00:47:50.17\00:47:52.13
Dr. Williams: Last
year... Yvonne: Oh...
00:47:52.17\00:47:53.77
November 7... so it's been about
six... six... seven months maybe
00:47:53.80\00:47:59.01
six months...
seven... something like that...
00:47:59.04\00:48:00.38
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:48:00.41\00:48:01.74
So we were trying to
get... my daughter lives with me
00:48:01.78\00:48:06.78
so, that's... I think
our roles are reversed now...
00:48:06.82\00:48:10.09
she's become... because
she tells me what to do.
00:48:10.12\00:48:13.36
Yvonne: You're
right... Laughter...
00:48:13.42\00:48:15.26
I used to tell her but
now she tells me what to do.
00:48:15.29\00:48:18.83
Like he tells me what to
do... he tries to tell me too...
00:48:18.86\00:48:22.33
Well, before we end... and
our time has gone by so quickly
00:48:22.36\00:48:26.74
Dr. Williams: Yeah, we
talked about me too much.
00:48:26.77\00:48:29.00
No, no, no, no,
00:48:29.04\00:48:30.37
we thank you for
sharing and being so transparent
00:48:30.41\00:48:34.18
because surely
there are some others
00:48:34.21\00:48:37.08
who are going through that
00:48:37.11\00:48:38.45
and being a
caregiver is so difficult.
00:48:38.48\00:48:42.02
I mean, that is hard
work, so we thank you
00:48:42.05\00:48:45.65
and we recognize how
difficult that has to be
00:48:45.69\00:48:49.12
and we thank God
for the resurrection.
00:48:49.16\00:48:52.06
One of the things that I did,
I had to be close to my wife,
00:48:52.09\00:48:57.63
so I did writing... you
know, I had my table there,
00:48:57.67\00:49:02.10
I was there with
her most of the time,
00:49:02.14\00:49:04.34
and I'd sit there...
and then that's how I...
00:49:04.37\00:49:06.91
and this was the book...
00:49:06.94\00:49:08.28
Perfect segue
into this because...
00:49:08.31\00:49:09.64
I was getting ready to
ask you about your first book,
00:49:09.68\00:49:11.41
let's talk about that.
00:49:11.45\00:49:12.81
This was the
very first book I did,
00:49:12.85\00:49:14.28
"She Fulfilled the
Impossible Dream. "
00:49:14.32\00:49:15.82
Yvonne: Let's
talk about Dr. Dykes.
00:49:15.85\00:49:17.32
Okay, she was my
teacher, Dr. Eva B. Dykes...
00:49:17.35\00:49:20.06
first black Ph. D. in the world
00:49:20.09\00:49:23.12
and it happened
to be at Oakwood.
00:49:23.16\00:49:26.09
She taught... she
got her Ph. D. in 1921,
00:49:26.13\00:49:30.87
she had already
gotten a Master's degree
00:49:30.90\00:49:35.57
from Howard University but
when she went to Radcliffe,
00:49:35.60\00:49:38.37
they said, "Oh
no... we don't accept...
00:49:38.41\00:49:40.24
that's a black institution,
you have to do it again"
00:49:40.28\00:49:42.81
so she had to do another
BA, she had to do another MA,
00:49:42.84\00:49:45.45
and then she had to...
00:49:45.48\00:49:47.08
Yvonne: She had to
redo all of her academics
00:49:47.12\00:49:49.25
in order to get into Radcliffe?
00:49:49.28\00:49:51.45
Dr. Williams: That's right.
00:49:51.49\00:49:53.56
oh... she had to do
them while she was there,
00:49:53.59\00:49:55.16
she had already
gotten it in Howard,
00:49:55.22\00:49:57.36
she had done her BA, she
had done her MA in Howard,
00:49:57.39\00:50:00.20
but when they
accepted her... probationary...
00:50:00.23\00:50:04.10
upon completing her BA and an MA
00:50:04.13\00:50:06.43
and she completed them
00:50:06.50\00:50:07.84
and they accepted
her as a doctoral student
00:50:07.87\00:50:09.44
so, this was my first book
and this is when I came back
00:50:09.47\00:50:12.97
from... from Africa,
00:50:13.01\00:50:14.64
"She Fulfilled
the Impossible Dream"
00:50:14.68\00:50:16.38
and I really... and I
just... they did this story
00:50:16.41\00:50:20.28
in Guide Magazine
and so, this was 1985,
00:50:20.32\00:50:25.52
it went out of print
and so I just reprinted it
00:50:25.55\00:50:27.42
and I put that Guide
Magazine, I really like that...
00:50:27.46\00:50:29.92
I put that in the back.
00:50:29.96\00:50:31.39
Ah nice, you know what's
great is, I mean, she is...
00:50:31.43\00:50:33.16
Dr. Williams: Did you
have her as a teacher?
00:50:33.19\00:50:35.50
I did... I did... she
was my English teacher
00:50:35.53\00:50:37.80
at Oakwood and I loved her.
Dr. Williams: She was special.
00:50:37.83\00:50:40.60
she was
excellent... She really was...
00:50:40.64\00:50:42.40
Remember the
"Audibility" you had to speak,
00:50:42.44\00:50:45.24
she would tell you... I
think academics and audibility
00:50:45.27\00:50:49.84
you had to speak,
she said, "Students... "
00:50:49.88\00:50:53.15
and she was very
proper when she talked,
00:50:53.18\00:50:55.68
"Students... when
you speak in my class,
00:50:55.72\00:50:58.15
you have to speak so
that everybody can hear you,
00:50:58.19\00:51:01.29
if you speak and
nobody hears you,
00:51:01.32\00:51:03.63
what good is that?"
00:51:03.69\00:51:05.03
So she...
audibility and academics
00:51:05.06\00:51:08.96
and she started the
Aeolians, I believe,
00:51:09.00\00:51:11.33
she was the one that
started the Aeolians,
00:51:11.37\00:51:12.90
Yvonne: Oh, the
Aeolians, really?
00:51:12.93\00:51:14.34
And her father...
00:51:14.37\00:51:15.90
her father left
her when she was a...
00:51:15.94\00:51:17.94
so she didn't grow
up with her father,
00:51:17.97\00:51:19.97
but her uncle, Dr. James Howard,
00:51:20.01\00:51:23.31
who was a medical
doctor, which back then...
00:51:23.35\00:51:27.15
was quite
something, and so... he was a
00:51:27.18\00:51:31.25
and I actually found his
picture... Dr. James Howard,
00:51:31.29\00:51:34.36
he went over to Ethiopia
00:51:34.42\00:51:37.26
to start a girls'
school over there,
00:51:37.29\00:51:40.23
and I said, "Well,
if he was a missionary"
00:51:40.26\00:51:42.06
I went over this... I
went to the Customs Department
00:51:42.10\00:51:46.94
and found this
picture, Dr. Howard
00:51:46.97\00:51:48.90
and the next book
I did... can we go...
00:51:48.94\00:51:50.84
we still have time for
that? Yvonne: Yes, yeah, yeah.
00:51:50.91\00:51:53.34
The next book I did was
called "Highly Committed"
00:51:53.38\00:51:55.81
the captivating
story of the Wilson family,
00:51:55.84\00:51:58.41
now this is: Elder Ted Wilson,
00:51:58.45\00:52:00.15
President of the
General Conference...
00:52:00.22\00:52:03.92
and his father was a President,
00:52:03.95\00:52:08.56
this was the only
family in our church history
00:52:08.62\00:52:11.23
where the father and
the son were President
00:52:11.26\00:52:13.83
of the General Conference
00:52:13.86\00:52:15.20
and then his grandfather,
00:52:15.23\00:52:16.63
his name is Nathaniel C. Wilson,
00:52:16.67\00:52:20.40
Nathaniel Carter Wilson
and his was Neal Clayton Wilson
00:52:20.44\00:52:24.31
and his is
actually... Norman Clare
00:52:24.34\00:52:26.68
but they called him...
he had his name changed
00:52:26.71\00:52:28.91
to Ted Wilson
00:52:28.94\00:52:30.28
and... officially changed...
00:52:30.31\00:52:32.21
and... but his father was
President of four conferences,
00:52:32.25\00:52:36.18
four divisions and four unions,
there's nobody else that...
00:52:36.25\00:52:40.16
and almost became a
General Conference President
00:52:40.19\00:52:42.02
and his great-grandfather
00:52:42.06\00:52:43.63
joined the church
under Ellen G. White...
00:52:43.66\00:52:46.33
Ellen G. White...
00:52:46.36\00:52:47.70
Jason: How long did it
take you to write these books?
00:52:47.73\00:52:49.66
Ah, maybe... to
do the research...
00:52:49.70\00:52:51.83
three years to do the research
00:52:51.87\00:52:53.20
and it's true so you
have to validate the facts
00:52:53.23\00:52:59.01
and interviews...
00:52:59.04\00:53:00.81
I interviewed Ted
Wilson and his wife...
00:53:00.84\00:53:05.88
they weren't too
happy about writing it.
00:53:05.91\00:53:10.95
Yvonne: Oh!
00:53:10.99\00:53:12.32
She said... they said,
00:53:12.35\00:53:14.32
"We're public
figures and we'd... "
00:53:14.36\00:53:15.72
so, she gave me one interview
and wouldn't give me anymore.
00:53:15.76\00:53:21.13
He gave me several interviews
00:53:21.16\00:53:25.30
and he actually didn't
want me to move forward
00:53:25.33\00:53:28.67
but I told him... I said,
"Listen, I worked three years
00:53:28.70\00:53:32.17
on this book... I'm printing it,
00:53:32.24\00:53:33.64
I'm giving you the opportunity
to make changes and corrections"
00:53:33.68\00:53:37.15
and you know... so
he did... he read it...
00:53:37.18\00:53:39.38
and made some
suggestions and I followed it,
00:53:39.41\00:53:43.72
but they were not
real happy... and so...
00:53:43.79\00:53:48.02
Okay, hopefully that's changed
when he did read the book.
00:53:48.06\00:53:49.92
Dr. Williams: But he
did buy eight of them.
00:53:49.96\00:53:51.46
Oh, he bought
eight... so you know...
00:53:51.49\00:53:52.89
I go to a book
signing there and he bought...
00:53:52.93\00:53:57.33
so... he likes it...
his family, you know,
00:53:57.37\00:54:01.67
the information in there...
he learned about himself.
00:54:01.70\00:54:04.51
Jason: Money
talks, he bought them, so,
00:54:04.54\00:54:07.11
praise the Lord.
00:54:07.14\00:54:08.48
For Christmas...
and this was my...
00:54:08.51\00:54:09.98
my next in the last book,
00:54:10.01\00:54:11.38
I have one that's
being published now,
00:54:11.41\00:54:14.08
and this was on missionaries...
black missionaries...
00:54:14.12\00:54:17.29
Yvonne: And you know,
we don't see a lot of that.
00:54:17.32\00:54:20.39
Why do you think we don't see
a lot more black missionaries?
00:54:20.42\00:54:24.33
We see a lot of
white missionaries
00:54:24.36\00:54:26.06
but not a lot of
black missionaries.
00:54:26.09\00:54:27.76
We've had a good history.
00:54:27.80\00:54:29.26
You know, it's never come out...
00:54:29.33\00:54:31.93
again... it's
kind of like Africa...
00:54:31.97\00:54:34.50
you know, we only
see white missionaries.
00:54:34.57\00:54:37.11
We had this lady here...
00:54:37.14\00:54:39.81
Van Der Berg... she
was killed in Africa...
00:54:39.84\00:54:45.45
she was... they
were coming home...
00:54:45.51\00:54:48.28
on the roadside...
you know a lot of times
00:54:48.32\00:54:50.59
the cars are
parked on the road and
00:54:50.62\00:54:53.92
big vans are parked on the road
00:54:53.96\00:54:56.02
and went and turned
the lights out and so forth
00:54:56.09\00:54:59.43
and they did that...
and they ran into this...
00:54:59.46\00:55:02.23
she was killed instantly,
so she was killed in Africa,
00:55:02.26\00:55:05.73
you know Dr. Elder Danny Davis,
00:55:05.77\00:55:07.50
missionary in
the Youth Department,
00:55:07.54\00:55:10.74
this was our
first black missionary
00:55:10.77\00:55:13.91
the very first black missionary
went to Jamaica in 1892...
00:55:13.94\00:55:19.75
and most people
don't think that in 1892...
00:55:19.78\00:55:23.15
you know, today Jamaica is
kind of like a tourist resort,
00:55:23.18\00:55:25.72
in 1892... it was a...
it was a... it was a...
00:55:25.75\00:55:28.82
it was a... a challenging...
it was a challenge...
00:55:28.86\00:55:31.39
Yvonne: Hmmm... I
would think so, 1892...
00:55:31.43\00:55:36.03
Dr. Williams: 1892...
that's when he went over
00:55:36.06\00:55:37.40
Yvonne: Wow!
00:55:37.43\00:55:38.77
Dr. Williams: and
then he went to Panama
00:55:38.80\00:55:40.14
and different places and
actually what happened is
00:55:40.17\00:55:45.51
Carol Hammond
wrote the first volume
00:55:45.54\00:55:47.11
and I'm in the first volume,
she wrote a book about 49 people
00:55:47.18\00:55:51.71
and in there... she
had a list of maybe...
00:55:51.75\00:55:57.15
a 100 or so
different missionaries
00:55:57.19\00:55:59.05
and so... I looked at the list
00:55:59.09\00:56:00.86
and she called in, I said,
00:56:00.89\00:56:02.56
"What... who is going to
write about these other...?"
00:56:02.59\00:56:05.53
So, that was my
challenge too, to take the list
00:56:05.56\00:56:09.20
and follow up on them...
and these were very difficult,
00:56:09.23\00:56:15.30
like I
mentioned... James Patterson...
00:56:15.34\00:56:19.44
there had been nothing
published on him before...
00:56:19.47\00:56:22.91
I had to find his
picture at the passport office
00:56:22.94\00:56:26.65
and of course a lot of
people knew Annaniah...
00:56:26.68\00:56:30.05
Yvonne: Oh yes, yes, yes
and all of these are stories
00:56:30.09\00:56:33.22
about the different
missionaries, their lives,
00:56:33.25\00:56:36.16
what they encountered...
how, tell us briefly,
00:56:36.19\00:56:39.06
how people can get these books?
00:56:39.09\00:56:41.26
I don't have a
website, I should,
00:56:41.30\00:56:43.43
but these two are
from: www. teachservices. com
00:56:43.47\00:56:47.77
Yvonne: Oh okay, so they
can just go to teachservices
00:56:47.80\00:56:49.94
teachservices. com
00:56:49.97\00:56:51.31
and this one...
they have to e-mail me.
00:56:51.34\00:56:54.11
mdwilliams39@gmail. com
00:56:54.14\00:56:59.41
Yvonne: mdwilliams39@gmail. com
00:56:59.45\00:57:02.95
it... as I said...
it was published in 1985
00:57:02.98\00:57:08.02
and I think they did the
second printing in maybe 1990
00:57:08.06\00:57:11.06
and then it kind of...
00:57:11.09\00:57:13.06
and I just re-printed it.
00:57:13.09\00:57:15.03
Well, that's wonderful,
we thank you so much...
00:57:15.06\00:57:17.47
Dr. Williams: It's been
my joy. it's been my joy.
00:57:17.50\00:57:19.83
I've talked...
my throat is gone...
00:57:19.87\00:57:22.80
We'll give you some
water in just a second...
00:57:22.84\00:57:25.57
Well, we've reached
the end of another program,
00:57:25.64\00:57:28.34
thank you so
much for joining us,
00:57:28.38\00:57:29.78
join us next time and remember,
00:57:29.81\00:57:31.18
it just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:57:31.21\00:57:33.82