Why is there so much
racial tension in America today?
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Stay tuned for some
valuable insight from my guest.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guest today is
Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr.
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Dr. Glaude is the
Chair of the Department
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of African American Studies
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and the William S. Tod
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Professor of Religion
and African American Studies
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at Princeton University.
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He's the recipient of
numerous awards including the
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Carl A. Fields Award
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and was a Visiting Scholar
in African-American studies
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at Harvard
University and Amherst College.
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He's been a guest
on numerous TV Shows
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including the Tavis Smiley Show,
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Fox TV's
Hannity and Colmes Show,
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Good Morning Joe,
CNN, C- SPAN and more
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and he is the
Author of several books
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the most recent of which is
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"Democracy in America:
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How Race Still
Enslaves the American Soul. "
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Welcome to Urban
Report Dr. Glaude.
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It's a pleasure
to be here with you.
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Yeah... you
know, I've seen you...
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I was so excited...
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I was watching Good
Morning Joe one morning and
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you were on and I had already
started reading your book
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and I was just so
happy to see you there
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and to hear the
insight that you share
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because we are
really in a very...
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really strange place in
terms of race relations here.
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What is going on in America
right now with racial tension,
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what would you say is... like...
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are the primary
factors involved in that?
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Well, I think it's...
it has a lot to do with...
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with the economic insecurity
that folks are feeling.
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When we think about what
happened in 2007 and 2008
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with the great recession,
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folks lost much of the
hard work that they put in.
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You think about
African American Communities...
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over 240,000 homes
lost in black America,
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you see 38 percent of black
children growing up in poverty,
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but not only in
the black community
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but in the white community,
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you see folks
losing their homes,
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you see folks who...
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their homes are no
longer... they're under water...
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they're not valued as
much as they thought it...
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as they once thought they were,
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you see that they can't afford
college... to pay for college
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because college
expenses have sky rocketed,
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you see that
they're working harder,
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working longer for less,
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and so, you see,
all of this sense...
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you see all of this tension
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rooted in the sense of
deep economic insecurity
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and the history of
the Country is that...
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usually when that happens,
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people are looking
for folk to blame, right?
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"The reason why I'm not
making what I used to make
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is because we're giving my money
to people who are undeserving. "
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"The reason why my
house isn't worth as much... "
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or "I can't afford to
send my kid to college
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is because they're
giving the seat to someone else
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who doesn't deserve it all. "
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"These undocumented workers...
these lazy black folk... "
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and so you see
folks scapegoating
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as they try to make sense...
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as they try to make sense
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of the fact that
they're losing ground,
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and we see all of these
studies out here Dr. Lewis,
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folks... you know
white women dying early,
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white men with
high school degrees
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suffering from opiate abuse
and suicide rates are increasing
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why is it?
Because there's darkness
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throughout the land
because the greed...
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the top one-tenth percent...
the top one percent...
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taking all the gains while
the 99 percent are suffering...
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You know, that's
really interesting,
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the whole idea of the
need for a scapegoat...
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the whole idea for
the need for answers
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as to why the economic
instability is happening
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so that makes a
lot of sense to me
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that... you got to
have somewhere to put this
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and so, you're going to
put it on the perceived...
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the perceived
problems or problem areas
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that you've kind of
nurtured through the years
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so you're... it's all
about perception isn't it?
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It's interesting to me Doc
that there is this perception
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of blacks... that
kind of permeates the media
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because even
though you might have
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the person in charge
that's black in the media,
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you still have the
criminals that are black,
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you still have the prostitutes
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that are mostly black,
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you still... so you
have this dichotomy going on
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and we have this
perception of blacks in Society
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that we just are takers,
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we just want
Government handouts,
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we don't want to work,
where is that coming from?
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Where does that come from
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because it
drives me a little nuts,
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where does that come from?
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It has a long
history, it has a long history
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going all the way back
to the days of slavery.
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When you think about how...
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how the system of
slavery was justified
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right... that in some ways
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these people lack the
capacity... the mental capacity
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to take on the
burdens of citizenship,
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that in fact... they
needed to be enslaved...
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because they were
being introduced...
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we were being
introduced to civilization,
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that the benevolent or
paternal slave master...
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offered the slave...
right... the resources
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the means by which
to understand themselves
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in more human terms,
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right, even, they had diseases
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that they would
attribute to black folk
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if you wanted to run away,
they called it "Drapetomania"
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right... a disease
for wanting freedom
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right, and then
when you think about
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even post emancipation,
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the idea that African
Americans didn't want to work,
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that we were lazy,
that we were "criminogenic"
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inclined to criminal behavior,
that we were sexual predators
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or that we were
loose in our morals,
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all of this was a
part of a broader language,
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a part of a broader discourse
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to justify the
treatment of black folk
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as second-class citizens,
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so in the book I say that
at the heart of this Country,
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at the heart of
this Country has been...
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what I call "the value gap"
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and the value gap is
the fundamental belief
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that white people
matter more than others
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and that belief is
not just simply about
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loud racists... that
belief isn't simply about
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people running
around yelling the "N" word,
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right... it's evidenced
in our social practices,
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in the way we
talk, in the way we see
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in the way we
interact with each other,
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it's evidenced in
our political realities,
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in our economic
arrangements so that...
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you get this
language... this discourse,
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right... that
black folk don't...
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I'm from the south,
I'm from Mississippi,
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that black folk
don't work for nothing,
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that we don't want to work hard,
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that we just want
handouts, that we are dependent,
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that we are
victim mongers, right?
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we're training in victimization
and none of that...
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none of that... bears
any resemblance to any truth,
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the data shows it very clearly.
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And you know, I
think, it's important to...
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to say that that the
data contradicts that
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because... again it's
perception and you know...
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this is not about... I
look at it like this Doc
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and you tell me if
you agree or disagree.
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I think we have internal issues
within the black community
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and we have external issues,
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we have institutionalized racism
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which a lot of people will deny
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and so, today... like...
some people might get offended,
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whites and blacks
because... to me...
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we're having a
little, honest discussion here
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about why things
are the way they are.
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I look at the black family
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and one of the things
that we're trying to do here
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at Dare to Dream is
to support relationships,
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to support the family with
programming that does that,
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so, you know, we
realize we have internal issues
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and we also have external issues
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and I think a lot
of people may think
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that we have a black President,
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so because we have
a black President now,
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racism is gone in this
Country and it is not...
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would you speak to that,
like, how there is this...
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this perception
that we're no longer,
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we no longer have race
problems in this Country,
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we really do,
would you speak to that?
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Well sure, I
think, part of that...
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part of that conclusion is
actually rooted in trying to
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place the blame of the
condition of poor black folk...
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of the condition of
poor black communities
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to try to place the blame
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squarely on the
shoulders of black folk
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as if we didn't have a
history of a duel labor market
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which track
people to certain jobs...
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as if we haven't had a history
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of deeply and
profoundly segregated schools
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which did not commit themselves
to educating black children
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and giving them... and
offering them opportunities
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out in the work place,
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as if we haven't had
a dual housing market
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that the wealth gap is,
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because black folk
aren't working hard
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as opposed to structural
reality that prevents them...
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and prevented them
from acquiring wealth.
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So all this is
really about placing blame
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squarely on our shoulders,
now let's be very clear,
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they're absolutely right,
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I mean, African
Americans are human...
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so we have
knuckle-heads in our Community,
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we have people
making bad choices,
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Yvonne: Absolutely.
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We have people
making bad choices
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but you have people making bad
choices in white communities,
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in Latino communities,
in Asian communities,
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but people are not
accounting for the circumstances
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of those communities by way
of those bad choices, right?
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So... so, part of
what I'm suggesting here
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is that we have to
try to delve more deeply
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into why folk want to say
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that the reason why black
communities are suffering...
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many of them,
principally... it's because
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of bad choices on
the part of black people,
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as opposed to a
history... an enduring history
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of racism in this Country...
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an enduring legacy
of racist practices
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rooted in the value gap
and rooted in racial habits,
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let me give you an
example really quickly.
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Yvonne: Yeah, please.
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I tell my students all the
time, we learn race... right?
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Just by simply moving about
space, in the United States,
00:10:39.53\00:10:42.80
right here in Princeton,
that's all you need to do is
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drive down 206... Route 206
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or walk down
Witherspoon Street...
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and you learn "race,"
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you learn the difference
of what it means to be
00:10:52.88\00:10:55.52
near the University
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and what it means to live down
where the Latino Community lives
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or where the African
American Community lives,
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you see the
differences of resources
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and I tell the story of...
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my dad was the
second African American
00:11:06.93\00:11:08.60
hired in the Post Office...
00:11:08.63\00:11:10.63
at the Post Office in
Pascagoula, Mississippi...
00:11:10.67\00:11:13.07
and we moved from one
side of town to the other,
00:11:13.10\00:11:15.54
we moved into this
big house on the hill,
00:11:15.57\00:11:17.61
a nice two-story
house on the hill
00:11:17.64\00:11:19.24
because Post Office back then
00:11:19.27\00:11:20.64
was "high
cotton" as we called it,
00:11:20.68\00:11:22.01
and as we were moving in,
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I'm playing with
my Tonka truck outside
00:11:24.85\00:11:27.18
and I hear the
neighbor yell at his son
00:11:27.22\00:11:29.15
to stop playing
with that "N" word,
00:11:29.18\00:11:31.82
I grab my Tonka
truck and I run inside
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and that's the story we
typically tell of racism,
00:11:34.49\00:11:38.36
family gets...
achieves the American dream,
00:11:38.39\00:11:42.16
gets a big house on the hill
and then some child gets wounded
00:11:42.20\00:11:45.57
right, by being
called that word,
00:11:45.63\00:11:48.27
that child has to spend
the rest of his or her life
00:11:48.30\00:11:50.34
saying that she's nothing
00:11:50.37\00:11:51.71
but actually... I had
already learned that difference,
00:11:51.74\00:11:55.94
because in our old neighborhood,
when it rained, it flooded,
00:11:55.98\00:11:59.28
because the pipes were bad,
the sidewalks weren't paved,
00:11:59.31\00:12:02.68
the houses were smaller,
the schools weren't as good,
00:12:02.72\00:12:05.99
so we learned the
habits of race, right?
00:12:06.02\00:12:09.46
in the very spatial environment
00:12:09.49\00:12:11.23
and that has nothing to
do with whether or not we are
00:12:11.26\00:12:13.40
being responsible or
making bad choices and...
00:12:13.43\00:12:15.83
it's just the way
the Country is organized.
00:12:15.86\00:12:18.27
Yvonne: Hmmm... and I think...
00:12:18.30\00:12:20.04
and I think that...
that's really a good point,
00:12:20.10\00:12:22.97
I think that so often...
unless you're actually living
00:12:23.00\00:12:27.58
within that kind of
construct, you don't realize it,
00:12:27.61\00:12:31.85
it's not a part of your reality,
00:12:31.88\00:12:33.92
so if it's not a
part of your reality,
00:12:33.98\00:12:37.79
there's this... there's
this ignorance out there
00:12:37.82\00:12:42.66
because it's not your reality,
00:12:42.69\00:12:45.29
so we have two
different realities going,
00:12:45.33\00:12:48.90
and it's interesting to me that
00:12:48.93\00:12:52.93
many times, you
know, you can be...
00:12:52.97\00:12:56.94
you can see it
on the news maybe,
00:12:56.97\00:12:59.91
but it's still
not your daily life
00:12:59.94\00:13:02.94
so you can kind of push it
aside because it's not you...
00:13:02.98\00:13:05.91
I am so concerned
about our young people,
00:13:05.95\00:13:09.12
I'm so concerned
about the illiteracy...
00:13:09.15\00:13:12.22
the literacy or lack thereof,
rate in our communities,
00:13:12.25\00:13:17.13
our children aren't reading,
00:13:17.16\00:13:18.53
where the
schools are sub-standard,
00:13:18.56\00:13:20.40
I mean, all of these
things and that is our reality,
00:13:20.50\00:13:25.67
I think that
watching what's been happening
00:13:25.70\00:13:29.14
with police...
across America, you know,
00:13:29.17\00:13:32.44
there have been these
different discussions,
00:13:32.51\00:13:35.64
we have a black
lens and a white lens
00:13:35.68\00:13:38.71
and people see
through their lenses
00:13:38.75\00:13:41.62
and I think... when you
talk about that value gap,
00:13:41.65\00:13:45.45
it is so important
that we re-examine that
00:13:45.49\00:13:50.49
because until we...
00:13:50.53\00:13:52.23
and I want you to unpack
that for us a little bit more,
00:13:52.26\00:13:54.30
until we do that,
00:13:54.30\00:13:55.93
we're going to keep
seeing through these two lenses
00:13:55.96\00:13:59.90
and they're not
going to come together
00:14:00.04\00:14:02.10
and we really want
them to come together
00:14:02.17\00:14:04.24
so we can... get past this,
00:14:04.31\00:14:06.21
what would you say
about that value gap,
00:14:06.24\00:14:08.58
unpack that some more for us.
00:14:08.61\00:14:10.25
Yes, you know we talked
about the achievement gap,
00:14:10.28\00:14:12.41
you know, we talk
about the wealth gap,
00:14:12.45\00:14:14.88
we even talk in
social psychological terms
00:14:14.95\00:14:17.72
of the "empathy gap"
but at the heart of it is
00:14:17.75\00:14:20.49
the value gap and if we
have a society that's built
00:14:20.56\00:14:23.73
on the belief that white
people matter more than others,
00:14:23.76\00:14:26.90
then no matter
what the inputs are,
00:14:26.93\00:14:28.76
no matter what the inputs are,
the outputs will be the same,
00:14:28.80\00:14:32.20
so think about it,
00:14:32.23\00:14:33.60
John Adams, at the
moment of the revolution,
00:14:33.64\00:14:35.64
the articulation of
the American principles
00:14:35.67\00:14:37.94
of freedom,
liberty and equality,
00:14:37.97\00:14:39.34
at that moment, he
says to King George,
00:14:39.37\00:14:41.78
"We will not be your negroes"
00:14:41.81\00:14:43.18
so at the very moment
in which he is giving voice
00:14:43.21\00:14:45.91
to an idea of freedom,
00:14:45.95\00:14:47.28
it's based on an intimate
understanding of un-freedom
00:14:47.32\00:14:50.45
so here we say,
00:14:50.55\00:14:52.15
we're committed to
the principles of freedom,
00:14:52.19\00:14:54.39
equality and liberty
00:14:54.42\00:14:55.76
but we're reconciling with
the institution of slavery,
00:14:55.79\00:14:57.79
that's the value gap.
00:14:57.83\00:14:59.16
In the context of the civil war,
00:14:59.19\00:15:01.03
we go to war over
the issue of slavery,
00:15:01.06\00:15:03.47
people will talk about it,
00:15:03.50\00:15:04.83
as States' rights
and all of that stuff
00:15:04.87\00:15:06.50
but we know what was at
the core of the civil war
00:15:06.53\00:15:09.54
and then we have
radical reconstruction,
00:15:09.57\00:15:12.11
an opportunity to
really fundamentally build
00:15:12.14\00:15:14.58
a multi-racial democracy
and what do we get in response?
00:15:14.61\00:15:18.08
We get convict leasing...
00:15:18.15\00:15:19.48
convict leasing...
where African Americans are
00:15:19.51\00:15:22.78
arrested for vagrancy
law for just wandering...
00:15:22.85\00:15:26.12
as they were trying
to find their families
00:15:26.15\00:15:27.89
in cities like Birmingham
00:15:27.92\00:15:29.32
were built on the
backs of convict labor,
00:15:29.36\00:15:32.86
people unjustly convicted
and that wasn't made illegal
00:15:32.89\00:15:36.56
until the
1940s... the value gap.
00:15:36.63\00:15:39.90
In the 1960s, the
Civil Rights Movement
00:15:39.93\00:15:42.40
here you have just
everyday ordinary people
00:15:42.44\00:15:44.87
putting forward a moral call
00:15:44.91\00:15:46.57
for the Nation to
live up to its principles
00:15:46.64\00:15:48.88
so that black folk
can live in this Country
00:15:48.91\00:15:51.08
with dignity and
standing as first-class citizens
00:15:51.11\00:15:53.68
and what do we get in response?
00:15:53.72\00:15:55.45
We get calls for law and order,
00:15:55.48\00:15:57.25
we get the tax
reform in California
00:15:57.29\00:16:00.19
and by 1980, just 12 years after
00:16:00.29\00:16:03.06
the last piece of major
legislation was passed...
00:16:03.09\00:16:06.33
the Fair Housing Act in 1968.
00:16:06.36\00:16:08.13
We get the
election of Ronald Reagan
00:16:08.16\00:16:10.27
who tries to undo it
all just 12 years later.
00:16:10.30\00:16:12.90
Then think about it,
well... that's the value gap,
00:16:12.93\00:16:15.37
we elect President Obama,
00:16:15.40\00:16:17.31
everybody says that
we're making the turn,
00:16:17.34\00:16:19.84
we've finally entered
this post-racial Society
00:16:19.87\00:16:22.38
and then what do we get?
00:16:22.41\00:16:23.85
We get the
vitriol of the Tea Party,
00:16:23.88\00:16:25.68
we get an attack on
the Voting Rights Act.
00:16:25.75\00:16:28.75
That's a
re-assertion of the value gap
00:16:28.78\00:16:31.72
so I'm not suggesting
that today is the same as 1960
00:16:31.75\00:16:36.22
which is the same as 1860,
00:16:36.26\00:16:37.96
each of these
moments represents progress,
00:16:37.99\00:16:41.60
but underneath all of it,
is the belief that some people,
00:16:41.63\00:16:47.00
because of the
color of their skin
00:16:47.04\00:16:48.54
are valued more than others
00:16:48.57\00:16:50.67
and that's why so many
of our fellow Americans,
00:16:50.71\00:16:54.24
so many people who we
love as children of God,
00:16:54.28\00:16:57.68
so many people are okay...
00:16:57.71\00:17:00.65
are okay with watching
parents bury their babies
00:17:00.68\00:17:03.95
who've been killed at
the hands of the police,
00:17:04.02\00:17:07.29
watching Municipalities
close their school...
00:17:07.32\00:17:10.69
you know...
close their budgets...
00:17:10.76\00:17:12.59
balance their budgets on
the backs of school districts
00:17:12.63\00:17:15.93
in black and brown communities,
00:17:16.00\00:17:17.47
they're okay with us
jailing over 2 million people,
00:17:17.50\00:17:22.37
the majority of
whom are black and brown,
00:17:22.40\00:17:25.67
right... and so,
I want to suggest
00:17:25.74\00:17:28.41
that the value gap
is not about loud races,
00:17:28.44\00:17:31.98
that's too
easy, it's about us...
00:17:32.01\00:17:34.55
it's about all of us
00:17:34.58\00:17:36.48
allowing
ourselves to live in a world
00:17:36.55\00:17:38.82
where all of this can happen.
00:17:38.85\00:17:40.19
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:40.26\00:17:41.59
Eddie: That's what I mean.
00:17:41.62\00:17:42.96
That's rich... that's rich...
00:17:42.99\00:17:44.33
so what role do you
think the church has
00:17:44.36\00:17:47.60
in helping to...
to close this gap?
00:17:47.66\00:17:51.10
How can we make a difference,
black and white together,
00:17:51.13\00:17:54.34
how can we make a difference?
00:17:54.37\00:17:55.70
Yeah, it seems to me that
the church has to be a church
00:17:55.74\00:17:59.34
that stands on the
revolutionary ministry of Jesus,
00:17:59.37\00:18:03.01
you know, Jesus
wasn't put on a cross
00:18:03.04\00:18:06.41
because He was
cozy with the Romans,
00:18:06.45\00:18:09.78
right? He wasn't...
00:18:09.82\00:18:12.35
He wasn't putting
forward a view that was
00:18:12.39\00:18:17.89
comfortable for the status quo,
00:18:17.93\00:18:19.69
you see, so if Jesus...
00:18:19.76\00:18:22.40
if we have a
Matthew 25-centered gospel,
00:18:22.43\00:18:26.33
right, well you have a church
00:18:26.37\00:18:28.64
that's not so much
interested in your W-2,
00:18:28.67\00:18:31.07
where you're sowing a seed to
prove that God has blessed you,
00:18:31.11\00:18:35.34
right, but if you have a church
that's really concerned with
00:18:35.38\00:18:39.58
mind, body and spirit,
00:18:39.61\00:18:41.45
then we would have a church
00:18:41.48\00:18:43.69
that wouldn't be so adjusted,
in my view, to injustice.
00:18:43.72\00:18:47.92
Hmmm... so you
think the church too
00:18:47.96\00:18:51.53
has been adjusted to injustice.
00:18:51.56\00:18:54.93
Complicit... we're complicit...
00:18:54.96\00:18:57.73
see, you can't... in my mind...
00:18:57.77\00:19:00.50
and you know this
might sound a bit radical
00:19:00.57\00:19:04.04
but to my mind,
it's easy to run around
00:19:04.07\00:19:07.54
and say that you're saved,
00:19:07.61\00:19:09.24
you can be a kind of
"Christianly peacock... "
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.75
showing your feathers...
00:19:11.78\00:19:13.35
Yvonne: Ah ha...
00:19:13.38\00:19:14.72
but what does it mean
00:19:14.75\00:19:17.12
to actually bear
witness to the gospel,
00:19:17.15\00:19:19.39
right, that means you have
to challenge the money-changers,
00:19:19.42\00:19:23.32
that means you have to provide
the conditions under which
00:19:23.36\00:19:27.23
those who are
suffering, who can't eat...
00:19:27.23\00:19:30.00
who can't put food on the table,
00:19:30.07\00:19:31.57
who can't put a
roof over their house...
00:19:31.60\00:19:33.54
who are trying to struggle,
00:19:33.57\00:19:34.90
to make sure that their children
can not only dream dreams
00:19:34.94\00:19:37.41
but make those dreams a reality,
00:19:37.44\00:19:39.07
right, to enact the
gospel in real terms,
00:19:39.11\00:19:42.74
in real concrete terms, right?
00:19:42.78\00:19:46.08
But so often...
it seems to me...
00:19:46.11\00:19:49.35
that folk are...
00:19:49.38\00:19:52.82
how can I put this...
00:19:52.85\00:19:54.19
they're more
interested in kind of
00:19:54.26\00:19:55.59
performance of the gospel.
00:19:55.62\00:19:59.29
They act a lot like Pharisees,
if you know what I mean.
00:19:59.33\00:20:03.13
Ah ha... ah ha...
gospel performers...
00:20:03.16\00:20:06.50
Exactly... so I
want a radical church,
00:20:06.53\00:20:09.47
I want a black
church in particular
00:20:09.50\00:20:12.37
that is grounded... not
just simply on the cross,
00:20:12.41\00:20:15.44
but the cross was
evidenced in that lynching tree,
00:20:15.48\00:20:18.48
Jesus is
evidenced in... in... in...
00:20:18.51\00:20:21.82
in the souls who are locked up
in all of these prisons, right,
00:20:21.88\00:20:25.99
evidenced in the
body of Mike Brown...
00:20:26.02\00:20:28.49
in the body of
Sandra Bland, right...
00:20:28.56\00:20:30.93
evidenced in these
children who can't read
00:20:30.96\00:20:32.99
because schools are
failing them day in and day out,
00:20:33.03\00:20:35.46
who can't imagine, right...
00:20:35.50\00:20:37.53
living a life better than
their mothers and fathers,
00:20:37.57\00:20:41.67
if you're going to
really bear witness,
00:20:41.70\00:20:44.24
right... to the love and
compassion and mercy of God,
00:20:44.27\00:20:48.68
right... evidence to the
sacrifice of your Son for us,
00:20:48.74\00:20:52.55
you got to do more than
just simply claim and proclaim
00:20:52.58\00:20:56.35
that you're
saved, that's too easy,
00:20:56.38\00:20:58.59
does that make sense?
00:20:58.65\00:21:01.99
Yes, yes, yes, you're preaching,
you're preaching now...
00:21:02.02\00:21:05.36
Eddie: That's too easy to me...
00:21:05.43\00:21:07.03
Yvonne: But it's
true... it's true...
00:21:07.10\00:21:08.40
it's not just about
an intellectual assent
00:21:08.43\00:21:11.43
to all of this, it
is about backing it up
00:21:11.47\00:21:14.60
with some kind of action
00:21:14.64\00:21:16.04
by not just accepting
00:21:16.07\00:21:18.54
the situation as it is
00:21:18.57\00:21:20.98
because the first
thing you have to do is
00:21:21.01\00:21:22.34
kind of see the
situation for what it is
00:21:22.38\00:21:25.25
and I think, again, internally
00:21:25.28\00:21:28.15
we have to... we have
to make certain choices,
00:21:28.18\00:21:31.19
we have to take responsibility
for certain things
00:21:31.22\00:21:33.52
and externally, you know...
00:21:33.56\00:21:35.86
we have to see that
there are situations
00:21:35.89\00:21:39.06
that have to be
corrected institutionally
00:21:39.09\00:21:42.16
and so, by doing this, I
think, we can come together
00:21:42.20\00:21:46.80
and make a
difference because it's not...
00:21:46.87\00:21:49.70
and I want to make this
clear, this is not about
00:21:49.74\00:21:52.34
you know... saying,
"White people are bad and... "
00:21:52.37\00:21:55.01
Eddie: No... not at all.
Yvonne: This is not that...
00:21:55.04\00:21:57.68
this is saying
that... that structurally...
00:21:57.71\00:22:00.62
we have had a problem in America
00:22:00.65\00:22:03.82
for hundreds of
years that this problem...
00:22:03.89\00:22:07.29
this value gap has to be closed,
00:22:07.36\00:22:10.73
it has to be closed.
00:22:10.76\00:22:12.33
Cornel West is a
good friend of mine
00:22:12.36\00:22:14.83
that many people know about...
00:22:14.83\00:22:16.16
Cornel West jumped into a
pool when he was a young kid
00:22:16.20\00:22:19.67
in Sacramento,
California, all the people...
00:22:19.70\00:22:21.64
all the white kids jumped
out and they emptied the pool,
00:22:21.67\00:22:23.97
right in front of him,
00:22:24.01\00:22:25.34
my colleague, Albert Raboteau,
who wrote a wonderful book
00:22:25.37\00:22:28.64
entitled "Slave Religion"
which is the foundation
00:22:28.68\00:22:30.95
of African American
religious history as a field...
00:22:30.98\00:22:33.21
he didn't grow
up with his father
00:22:33.25\00:22:35.38
because a
Mississippi Store Owner
00:22:35.42\00:22:37.49
blew his father's brains out
because he dared speak to him
00:22:37.55\00:22:40.36
because he thought he
disrespected his wife,
00:22:40.42\00:22:42.29
this isn't
1840... this isn't 1903...
00:22:42.36\00:22:47.76
these are the 1950s and
'60s... right... and so...
00:22:47.76\00:22:52.30
we believe... like I said...
00:22:52.33\00:22:54.07
the last major
piece of legislation
00:22:54.10\00:22:56.94
passed in the
Great Society was 1968...
00:22:56.97\00:22:59.71
the Fair Housing Act...
00:22:59.77\00:23:01.28
which they never,
never implemented...
00:23:01.31\00:23:03.38
just 12 years later,
00:23:03.45\00:23:05.65
there was the
election of Ronald Reagan
00:23:05.68\00:23:07.75
and a systematic
attack on the Great Society.
00:23:07.78\00:23:10.92
So you want to suggest to me
that between 1964 and 1965...
00:23:10.99\00:23:15.22
that's the Civil Rights
Act, the Voting Rights Act,
00:23:15.29\00:23:17.69
and now... it's at '68...
12, 15, 12... years later...
00:23:17.73\00:23:21.70
that suddenly we resolved
centuries of America's race...
00:23:21.73\00:23:25.67
of course not...
and let's be very clear,
00:23:25.70\00:23:28.40
the value gap
doesn't require white people
00:23:28.44\00:23:31.07
in order to be
sustained, all of us...
00:23:31.11\00:23:33.17
are habituated in...
00:23:33.21\00:23:35.44
all of us are reproducing...
00:23:35.48\00:23:37.41
this is the example I use,
00:23:37.51\00:23:39.31
I don't consider myself
a climate-changer denier...
00:23:39.35\00:23:42.02
I think the world
is warming, right,
00:23:42.05\00:23:44.59
but if you look at how I live...
00:23:44.62\00:23:47.12
and the choices I make...
it would seem that I am...
00:23:47.16\00:23:50.79
you look at my car...
you look at my house...
00:23:50.83\00:23:54.30
you look at my
light bulbs, you look...
00:23:54.30\00:23:56.80
the choices that I'm
making day in and day out,
00:23:56.83\00:23:59.50
suggest that I don't believe
that the world is warming.
00:23:59.53\00:24:03.04
But I wouldn't say that
I'm a climate change denier...
00:24:03.07\00:24:06.47
so people can say,
"I'm not a racist... "
00:24:06.54\00:24:09.61
but when they're making choices
00:24:09.64\00:24:11.75
about where they
send their kids to school,
00:24:11.78\00:24:13.42
when they're making
choices about where they live,
00:24:13.45\00:24:16.38
when they're making choices
about what they vote for,
00:24:16.42\00:24:19.35
how they
understand work, how they...
00:24:19.39\00:24:22.06
we're making
choices day in and day out
00:24:22.09\00:24:24.73
that reproduce the value gap,
00:24:24.76\00:24:26.63
it's not because
we're bad people...
00:24:26.70\00:24:30.93
it's because this is the vibe...
00:24:30.97\00:24:32.87
this is the place
we've been socialized in
00:24:32.90\00:24:36.00
and I want to say this
to Christians real quick...
00:24:36.04\00:24:38.37
there's this wonderful...
00:24:38.41\00:24:39.81
there's this extraordinary
moment at Pentecost in Acts...
00:24:39.84\00:24:43.51
and folks are
looking and they say,
00:24:43.55\00:24:45.81
"They must be drunk... "
00:24:45.85\00:24:47.52
because they're
trying to figure out
00:24:47.58\00:24:50.35
something is
different about them.
00:24:50.39\00:24:52.29
Yvonne: Right.
00:24:52.32\00:24:53.66
The way they
inhabit space and time,
00:24:53.72\00:24:56.73
something is
different about them
00:24:56.79\00:24:59.76
and the question that
Christians need to be asking
00:24:59.79\00:25:02.96
is that... are people
thinking that we're drunk?
00:25:03.00\00:25:06.10
Yvonne: Come on now...
00:25:06.13\00:25:07.70
Because it seems to
me that we're so much...
00:25:07.74\00:25:10.61
we're just like everybody else.
00:25:10.64\00:25:12.71
So, how are we
different from the world then
00:25:12.74\00:25:17.81
if we're not
making a difference?
00:25:17.85\00:25:19.85
Exactly... that's the question,
00:25:19.88\00:25:21.82
that's the question
I think every pastor
00:25:21.85\00:25:24.95
needs to be
asking him or herself.
00:25:24.99\00:25:27.46
That's the question
that every person in the pews
00:25:27.49\00:25:30.43
should be asking
him or herself, right...
00:25:30.46\00:25:33.70
what difference am I making
in the world by bearing witness
00:25:33.73\00:25:38.83
to the sacrifice
of Jesus, right...
00:25:38.87\00:25:41.64
on my behalf... right...
00:25:41.67\00:25:43.77
and if the church is
not making a difference
00:25:43.81\00:25:46.04
in the
day-to-day lives of people
00:25:46.07\00:25:48.44
in the communities
that they reside in,
00:25:48.48\00:25:51.41
if the church is
so... how can I put this?
00:25:51.45\00:25:54.18
It seems to me that churches
00:25:54.22\00:25:56.02
are more interested in
strategies like Wal-Mart
00:25:56.05\00:25:58.99
and Home Depot,
00:25:59.02\00:26:00.42
I'm going to buy a big
piece of land out in the suburbs
00:26:00.49\00:26:04.26
and I'm going to
build this huge complex
00:26:04.29\00:26:06.63
and dat... dat... dat...
sounds like a Wal-Mart strategy,
00:26:06.73\00:26:10.50
a big box strategy, right...
00:26:10.57\00:26:12.10
what are you doing
for all of these people
00:26:12.13\00:26:15.60
who are coming out of prison?
00:26:15.64\00:26:17.01
What are you doing for all these
people who've lost their homes?
00:26:17.04\00:26:19.97
What are you doing
for all of these people
00:26:20.01\00:26:22.14
who are having
to make a decision
00:26:22.18\00:26:23.95
of putting food on the table
00:26:23.98\00:26:25.71
or keeping a
roof over their heads?
00:26:25.78\00:26:27.42
How are you
addressing the least of these?
00:26:27.45\00:26:30.69
How are you addressing
the least of these...?
00:26:30.72\00:26:33.36
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:26:33.39\00:26:34.72
That has nothing to do...
00:26:34.76\00:26:36.12
that has nothing to do
00:26:36.16\00:26:37.56
with whether or
not somebody is racist,
00:26:37.63\00:26:40.10
somebody is lazy,
00:26:40.13\00:26:41.53
it's called bearing
witness to the gospel
00:26:41.56\00:26:43.53
that you
supposedly are committed to.
00:26:43.57\00:26:45.47
Dr. Glaude, that is
so rich, you know what?
00:26:45.50\00:26:49.70
you have got to come back again,
00:26:49.74\00:26:51.94
in fact, I really wish
you'd come and see us here
00:26:52.01\00:26:54.84
but if you can't...
00:26:54.88\00:26:56.21
if I can just get
you on Skype again,
00:26:56.24\00:26:57.68
I want to do that
because there's so much...
00:26:57.71\00:26:59.88
I didn't even go
through your journey,
00:26:59.91\00:27:02.05
I want to go
through your journey,
00:27:02.08\00:27:04.05
I want to find
out more about you,
00:27:04.12\00:27:05.99
we didn't even
get to all that...
00:27:06.02\00:27:07.86
there's so much
more, will you come back?
00:27:07.92\00:27:10.19
Absolutely, absolutely...
00:27:10.26\00:27:12.13
Oh that would be great
because there's so much more
00:27:12.16\00:27:14.50
do you have a closing
thought like... 10 seconds...
00:27:14.56\00:27:16.87
a closing
thought for the Viewers?
00:27:16.90\00:27:19.50
The only thing I say is that
00:27:19.53\00:27:20.87
if we're going to
uproot the value gap,
00:27:20.94\00:27:22.27
we're going to have to
have a revolution of value...
00:27:22.30\00:27:24.41
that means... we're
going to have to change
00:27:24.44\00:27:26.51
our view of Government,
00:27:26.54\00:27:28.08
which means... we have to
change our demand of Government.
00:27:28.11\00:27:30.15
We have to change
our view of black people,
00:27:30.18\00:27:32.71
to change our
view of black people...
00:27:32.75\00:27:34.45
that means we're
going to have to change
00:27:34.48\00:27:35.82
our view of white people
00:27:35.85\00:27:37.19
and lastly, we got to change our
view of what ultimately matters.
00:27:37.22\00:27:40.26
We can't have a Society
based upon selfishness, greed
00:27:40.29\00:27:43.83
and narcissism,
00:27:43.86\00:27:45.19
instead, we have to have
the Society based on the fact
00:27:45.23\00:27:48.00
that every human
being should be extended
00:27:48.03\00:27:50.23
dignity and standing
00:27:50.27\00:27:51.60
because every human
being is a child of God.
00:27:51.63\00:27:53.54
Thank you so
much, may God bless you
00:27:53.60\00:27:56.57
and thank you so
much for joining us,
00:27:56.67\00:27:58.97
join us next time
because you know what?
00:27:59.01\00:28:01.38
It just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:28:01.41\00:28:03.68