Why is there so much
racial tension in America today?
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Stay tuned for some
valuable insight from my guest.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guest today is
Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr.
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Dr. Glaude is the
Chair of the Department
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of African American Studies
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and the William S. Tod
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Professor of Religion
and African American Studies
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at Princeton University.
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He's the recipient of
numerous awards including the
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Carl A. Fields Award
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and was a Visiting Scholar
in African-American studies
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at Harvard
University and Amherst College.
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He's been a guest
on numerous TV Shows
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including the Tavis Smiley Show,
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Fox TV's
Hannity and Colmes Show,
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Good Morning Joe,
CNN, C- SPAN and more
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and he is the
Author of several books
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the most recent of which is
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"Democracy in America:
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How Race Still
Enslaves the American Soul. "
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Welcome to Urban
Report Dr. Glaude.
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It's a pleasure
to be here with you.
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Yeah... you
know, I've seen you...
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I was so excited...
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I was watching Good
Morning Joe one morning and
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you were on and I had already
started reading your book
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and I was just so
happy to see you there
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and to hear the
insight that you share
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because we are
really in a very...
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really strange place in
terms of race relations here.
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What is going on in America
right now with racial tension,
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what would you say is... like...
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are the primary
factors involved in that?
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Well, I think it's...
it has a lot to do with...
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with the economic insecurity
that folks are feeling.
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When we think about what
happened in 2007 and 2008
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with the great recession,
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folks lost much of the
hard work that they put in.
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You think about
African American Communities...
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over 240,000 homes
lost in black America,
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you see 38 percent of black
children growing up in poverty,
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but not only in
the black community
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but in the white community,
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you see folks
losing their homes,
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you see folks who...
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their homes are no
longer... they're under water...
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they're not valued as
much as they thought it...
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as they once thought they were,
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you see that they can't afford
college... to pay for college
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because college
expenses have sky rocketed,
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you see that
they're working harder,
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working longer for less,
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and so, you see,
all of this sense...
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you see all of this tension
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rooted in the sense of
deep economic insecurity
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and the history of
the Country is that...
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usually when that happens,
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people are looking
for folk to blame, right?
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"The reason why I'm not
making what I used to make
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is because we're giving my money
to people who are undeserving. "
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"The reason why my
house isn't worth as much... "
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or "I can't afford to
send my kid to college
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is because they're
giving the seat to someone else
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who doesn't deserve it all. "
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"These undocumented workers...
these lazy black folk... "
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and so you see
folks scapegoating
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as they try to make sense...
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as they try to make sense
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of the fact that
they're losing ground,
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and we see all of these
studies out here Dr. Lewis,
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folks... you know
white women dying early,
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white men with
high school degrees
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suffering from opiate abuse
and suicide rates are increasing
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why is it?
Because there's darkness
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throughout the land
because the greed...
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the top one-tenth percent...
the top one percent...
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taking all the gains while
the 99 percent are suffering...
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You know, that's
really interesting,
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the whole idea of the
need for a scapegoat...
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the whole idea for
the need for answers
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as to why the economic
instability is happening
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so that makes a
lot of sense to me
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that... you got to
have somewhere to put this
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and so, you're going to
put it on the perceived...
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the perceived
problems or problem areas
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that you've kind of
nurtured through the years
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so you're... it's all
about perception isn't it?
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It's interesting to me Doc
that there is this perception
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of blacks... that
kind of permeates the media
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because even
though you might have
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the person in charge
that's black in the media,
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you still have the
criminals that are black,
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you still have the prostitutes
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that are mostly black,
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you still... so you
have this dichotomy going on
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and we have this
perception of blacks in Society
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that we just are takers,
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we just want
Government handouts,
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we don't want to work,
where is that coming from?
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Where does that come from
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because it
drives me a little nuts,
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where does that come from?
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It has a long
history, it has a long history
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going all the way back
to the days of slavery.
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When you think about how...
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how the system of
slavery was justified
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right... that in some ways
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these people lack the
capacity... the mental capacity
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to take on the
burdens of citizenship,
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that in fact... they
needed to be enslaved...
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because they were
being introduced...
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we were being
introduced to civilization,
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that the benevolent or
paternal slave master...
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offered the slave...
right... the resources
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the means by which
to understand themselves
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in more human terms,
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right, even, they had diseases
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that they would
attribute to black folk
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if you wanted to run away,
they called it "Drapetomania"
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right... a disease
for wanting freedom
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right, and then
when you think about
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even post emancipation,
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the idea that African
Americans didn't want to work,
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that we were lazy,
that we were "criminogenic"
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inclined to criminal behavior,
that we were sexual predators
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or that we were
loose in our morals,
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all of this was a
part of a broader language,
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a part of a broader discourse
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to justify the
treatment of black folk
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as second-class citizens,
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so in the book I say that
at the heart of this Country,
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at the heart of
this Country has been...
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what I call "the value gap"
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and the value gap is
the fundamental belief
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that white people
matter more than others
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and that belief is
not just simply about
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loud racists... that
belief isn't simply about
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people running
around yelling the "N" word,
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right... it's evidenced
in our social practices,
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in the way we
talk, in the way we see
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in the way we
interact with each other,
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it's evidenced in
our political realities,
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in our economic
arrangements so that...
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you get this
language... this discourse,
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right... that
black folk don't...
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I'm from the south,
I'm from Mississippi,
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that black folk
don't work for nothing,
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that we don't want to work hard,
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that we just want
handouts, that we are dependent,
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that we are
victim mongers, right?
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we're training in victimization
and none of that...
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none of that... bears
any resemblance to any truth,
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the data shows it very clearly.
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And you know, I
think, it's important to...
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to say that that the
data contradicts that
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because... again it's
perception and you know...
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this is not about... I
look at it like this Doc
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and you tell me if
you agree or disagree.
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I think we have internal issues
within the black community
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and we have external issues,
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we have institutionalized racism
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which a lot of people will deny
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and so, today... like...
some people might get offended,
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whites and blacks
because... to me...
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we're having a
little, honest discussion here
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about why things
are the way they are.
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I look at the black family
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and one of the things
that we're trying to do here
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at Dare to Dream is
to support relationships,
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to support the family with
programming that does that,
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so, you know, we
realize we have internal issues
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and we also have external issues
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and I think a lot
of people may think
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that we have a black President,
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so because we have
a black President now,
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racism is gone in this
Country and it is not...
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would you speak to that,
like, how there is this...
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this perception
that we're no longer,
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we no longer have race
problems in this Country,
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we really do,
would you speak to that?
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Well sure, I
think, part of that...
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part of that conclusion is
actually rooted in trying to
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place the blame of the
condition of poor black folk...
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of the condition of
poor black communities
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to try to place the blame
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squarely on the
shoulders of black folk
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as if we didn't have a
history of a duel labor market
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which track
people to certain jobs...
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as if we haven't had a history
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of deeply and
profoundly segregated schools
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which did not commit themselves
to educating black children
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and giving them... and
offering them opportunities
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out in the work place,
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as if we haven't had
a dual housing market
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that the wealth gap is,
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because black folk
aren't working hard
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as opposed to structural
reality that prevents them...
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and prevented them
from acquiring wealth.
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So all this is
really about placing blame
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squarely on our shoulders,
now let's be very clear,
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they're absolutely right,
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I mean, African
Americans are human...
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so we have
knuckle-heads in our Community,
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we have people
making bad choices,
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Yvonne: Absolutely.
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We have people
making bad choices
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but you have people making bad
choices in white communities,
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in Latino communities,
in Asian communities,
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but people are not
accounting for the circumstances
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of those communities by way
of those bad choices, right?
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So... so, part of
what I'm suggesting here
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is that we have to
try to delve more deeply
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into why folk want to say
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that the reason why black
communities are suffering...
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many of them,
principally... it's because
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of bad choices on
the part of black people,
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as opposed to a
history... an enduring history
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of racism in this Country...
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an enduring legacy
of racist practices
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rooted in the value gap
and rooted in racial habits,
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let me give you an
example really quickly.
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Yvonne: Yeah, please.
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I tell my students all the
time, we learn race... right?
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Just by simply moving about
space, in the United States,
00:10:39.63\00:10:42.90
right here in Princeton,
that's all you need to do is
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drive down 206... Route 206
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or walk down
Witherspoon Street...
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and you learn "race,"
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you learn the difference
of what it means to be
00:10:52.98\00:10:55.62
near the University
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and what it means to live down
where the Latino Community lives
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or where the African
American Community lives,
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you see the
differences of resources
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and I tell the story of...
00:11:05.56\00:11:06.90
my dad was the
second African American
00:11:06.93\00:11:08.66
hired in the Post Office...
00:11:08.70\00:11:10.67
at the Post Office in
Pascagoula, Mississippi...
00:11:10.70\00:11:13.13
and we moved from one
side of town to the other,
00:11:13.17\00:11:15.60
we moved into this
big house on the hill,
00:11:15.64\00:11:17.67
a nice two-story
house on the hill
00:11:17.71\00:11:19.31
because Post Office back then
00:11:19.34\00:11:20.68
was "high
cotton" as we called it,
00:11:20.71\00:11:22.08
and as we were moving in,
00:11:22.11\00:11:24.88
I'm playing with
my Tonka truck outside
00:11:24.91\00:11:27.22
and I hear the
neighbor yell at his son
00:11:27.28\00:11:29.22
to stop playing
with that "N" word,
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I grab my Tonka
truck and I run inside
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and that's the story we
typically tell of racism,
00:11:34.56\00:11:38.43
family gets...
achieves the American dream,
00:11:38.46\00:11:42.26
gets a big house on the hill
and then some child gets wounded
00:11:42.30\00:11:45.67
right, by being
called that word,
00:11:45.73\00:11:48.37
that child has to spend
the rest of his or her life
00:11:48.40\00:11:50.41
saying that she's nothing
00:11:50.44\00:11:51.77
but actually... I had
already learned that difference,
00:11:51.81\00:11:56.04
because in our old neighborhood,
when it rained, it flooded,
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because the pipes were bad,
the sidewalks weren't paved,
00:11:59.41\00:12:02.72
the houses were smaller,
the schools weren't as good,
00:12:02.75\00:12:06.02
so we learned the
habits of race, right?
00:12:06.05\00:12:09.49
in the very spatial environment
00:12:09.52\00:12:11.26
and that has nothing to
do with whether or not we are
00:12:11.29\00:12:13.40
being responsible or
making bad choices and...
00:12:13.43\00:12:15.90
it's just the way
the Country is organized.
00:12:15.93\00:12:18.33
Yvonne: Hmmm... and I think...
00:12:18.37\00:12:20.10
and I think that...
that's really a good point,
00:12:20.14\00:12:23.04
I think that so often...
unless you're actually living
00:12:23.07\00:12:27.64
within that kind of
construct, you don't realize it,
00:12:27.68\00:12:31.91
it's not a part of your reality,
00:12:31.95\00:12:33.98
so if it's not a
part of your reality,
00:12:34.02\00:12:37.85
there's this... there's
this ignorance out there
00:12:37.89\00:12:42.72
because it's not your reality,
00:12:42.76\00:12:45.36
so we have two
different realities going,
00:12:45.39\00:12:49.00
and it's interesting to me that
00:12:49.03\00:12:53.03
many times, you
know, you can be...
00:12:53.07\00:12:57.01
you can see it
on the news maybe,
00:12:57.04\00:13:00.01
but it's still
not your daily life
00:13:00.04\00:13:02.98
so you can kind of push it
aside because it's not you...
00:13:03.01\00:13:05.95
I am so concerned
about our young people,
00:13:05.98\00:13:09.15
I'm so concerned
about the illiteracy...
00:13:09.18\00:13:12.25
the literacy or lack thereof,
rate in our communities,
00:13:12.29\00:13:17.16
our children aren't reading,
00:13:17.19\00:13:18.56
where the
schools are sub-standard,
00:13:18.59\00:13:20.43
I mean, all of these
things and that is our reality,
00:13:20.50\00:13:25.73
I think that
watching what's been happening
00:13:25.77\00:13:29.20
with police...
across America, you know,
00:13:29.24\00:13:32.51
there have been these
different discussions,
00:13:32.57\00:13:35.71
we have a black
lens and a white lens
00:13:35.74\00:13:38.78
and people see
through their lenses
00:13:38.81\00:13:41.68
and I think... when you
talk about that value gap,
00:13:41.72\00:13:45.52
it is so important
that we re-examine that
00:13:45.55\00:13:50.53
because until we...
00:13:50.56\00:13:52.29
and I want you to unpack
that for us a little bit more,
00:13:52.33\00:13:54.36
until we do that,
00:13:54.40\00:13:56.03
we're going to keep
seeing through these two lenses
00:13:56.06\00:14:00.00
and they're not
going to come together
00:14:00.04\00:14:02.14
and we really want
them to come together
00:14:02.20\00:14:04.27
so we can... get past this,
00:14:04.31\00:14:06.24
what would you say
about that value gap,
00:14:06.27\00:14:08.61
unpack that some more for us.
00:14:08.64\00:14:10.28
Yes, you know we talked
about the achievement gap,
00:14:10.31\00:14:12.45
you know, we talk
about the wealth gap,
00:14:12.48\00:14:14.92
we even talk in
social psychological terms
00:14:14.98\00:14:17.75
of the "empathy gap"
but at the heart of it is
00:14:17.79\00:14:20.52
the value gap and if we
have a society that's built
00:14:20.56\00:14:23.76
on the belief that white
people matter more than others,
00:14:23.79\00:14:26.93
then no matter
what the inputs are,
00:14:26.96\00:14:28.83
no matter what the inputs are,
the outputs will be the same,
00:14:28.86\00:14:32.27
so think about it,
00:14:32.30\00:14:33.64
John Adams, at the
moment of the revolution,
00:14:33.67\00:14:35.70
the articulation of
the American principles
00:14:35.74\00:14:38.01
of freedom,
liberty and equality,
00:14:38.04\00:14:39.41
at that moment, he
says to King George,
00:14:39.44\00:14:41.84
"We will not be your negroes"
00:14:41.88\00:14:43.24
so at the very moment
in which he is giving voice
00:14:43.28\00:14:45.98
to an idea of freedom,
00:14:46.01\00:14:47.35
it's based on an intimate
understanding of un-freedom
00:14:47.38\00:14:50.52
so here we say,
00:14:50.59\00:14:52.22
we're committed to
the principles of freedom,
00:14:52.25\00:14:54.46
equality and liberty
00:14:54.49\00:14:55.82
but we're reconciling with
the institution of slavery,
00:14:55.86\00:14:57.86
that's the value gap.
00:14:57.89\00:14:59.23
In the context of the civil war,
00:14:59.26\00:15:01.06
we go to war over
the issue of slavery,
00:15:01.10\00:15:03.50
people will talk about it,
00:15:03.53\00:15:04.87
as States' rights
and all of that stuff
00:15:04.90\00:15:06.53
but we know what was at
the core of the civil war
00:15:06.57\00:15:09.57
and then we have
radical reconstruction,
00:15:09.60\00:15:12.14
an opportunity to
really fundamentally build
00:15:12.17\00:15:14.61
a multi-racial democracy
and what do we get in response?
00:15:14.64\00:15:18.11
We get convict leasing...
00:15:18.18\00:15:19.51
convict leasing...
where African Americans are
00:15:19.55\00:15:22.82
arrested for vagrancy
law for just wandering...
00:15:22.88\00:15:26.15
as they were trying
to find their families
00:15:26.19\00:15:27.92
in cities like Birmingham
00:15:27.96\00:15:29.36
were built on the
backs of convict labor,
00:15:29.39\00:15:32.89
people unjustly convicted
and that wasn't made illegal
00:15:32.93\00:15:36.63
until the
1940s... the value gap.
00:15:36.67\00:15:39.97
In the 1960s, the
Civil Rights Movement
00:15:40.00\00:15:42.47
here you have just
everyday ordinary people
00:15:42.50\00:15:44.94
putting forward a moral call
00:15:44.97\00:15:46.64
for the Nation to
live up to its principles
00:15:46.68\00:15:48.94
so that black folk
can live in this Country
00:15:48.98\00:15:51.15
with dignity and
standing as first-class citizens
00:15:51.18\00:15:53.72
and what do we get in response?
00:15:53.75\00:15:55.52
We get calls for law and order,
00:15:55.55\00:15:57.29
we get the tax
reform in California
00:15:57.32\00:16:00.19
and by 1980, just 12 years after
00:16:00.26\00:16:03.06
the last piece of major
legislation was passed...
00:16:03.09\00:16:06.33
the Fair Housing Act in 1968.
00:16:06.36\00:16:08.16
We get the
election of Ronald Reagan
00:16:08.20\00:16:10.27
who tries to undo it
all just 12 years later.
00:16:10.30\00:16:12.93
Then think about it,
well... that's the value gap,
00:16:12.97\00:16:15.40
we elect President Obama,
00:16:15.44\00:16:17.31
everybody says that
we're making the turn,
00:16:17.34\00:16:19.87
we've finally entered
this post-racial Society
00:16:19.91\00:16:22.41
and then what do we get?
00:16:22.44\00:16:23.85
We get the
vitriol of the Tea Party,
00:16:23.88\00:16:25.71
we get an attack on
the Voting Rights Act.
00:16:25.78\00:16:28.78
That's a
re-assertion of the value gap
00:16:28.82\00:16:31.75
so I'm not suggesting
that today is the same as 1960
00:16:31.79\00:16:36.26
which is the same as 1860,
00:16:36.29\00:16:37.99
each of these
moments represents progress,
00:16:38.03\00:16:41.66
but underneath all of it,
is the belief that some people,
00:16:41.70\00:16:47.04
because of the
color of their skin
00:16:47.07\00:16:48.60
are valued more than others
00:16:48.64\00:16:50.74
and that's why so many
of our fellow Americans,
00:16:50.77\00:16:54.28
so many people who we
love as children of God,
00:16:54.31\00:16:57.75
so many people are okay...
00:16:57.78\00:17:00.65
are okay with watching
parents bury their babies
00:17:00.68\00:17:03.95
who've been killed at
the hands of the police,
00:17:03.99\00:17:07.26
watching Municipalities
close their school...
00:17:07.29\00:17:10.69
you know...
close their budgets...
00:17:10.73\00:17:12.59
balance their budgets on
the backs of school districts
00:17:12.63\00:17:15.96
in black and brown communities,
00:17:16.03\00:17:17.47
they're okay with us
jailing over 2 million people,
00:17:17.50\00:17:22.40
the majority of
whom are black and brown,
00:17:22.44\00:17:25.71
right... and so,
I want to suggest
00:17:25.77\00:17:28.44
that the value gap
is not about loud races,
00:17:28.48\00:17:32.01
that's too
easy, it's about us...
00:17:32.05\00:17:34.58
it's about all of us
00:17:34.62\00:17:36.52
allowing
ourselves to live in a world
00:17:36.58\00:17:38.85
where all of this can happen.
00:17:38.89\00:17:40.22
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:40.26\00:17:41.59
Eddie: That's what I mean.
00:17:41.62\00:17:42.96
That's rich... that's rich...
00:17:42.99\00:17:44.33
so what role do you
think the church has
00:17:44.36\00:17:47.66
in helping to...
to close this gap?
00:17:47.70\00:17:51.17
How can we make a difference,
black and white together,
00:17:51.20\00:17:54.40
how can we make a difference?
00:17:54.44\00:17:55.77
Yeah, it seems to me that
the church has to be a church
00:17:55.80\00:17:59.41
that stands on the
revolutionary ministry of Jesus,
00:17:59.44\00:18:03.01
you know, Jesus
wasn't put on a cross
00:18:03.04\00:18:06.41
because He was
cozy with the Romans,
00:18:06.45\00:18:09.78
right? He wasn't...
00:18:09.82\00:18:12.35
He wasn't putting
forward a view that was
00:18:12.39\00:18:17.89
comfortable for the status quo,
00:18:17.93\00:18:19.69
you see, so if Jesus...
00:18:19.76\00:18:22.43
if we have a
Matthew 25-centered gospel,
00:18:22.46\00:18:26.37
right, well you have a church
00:18:26.40\00:18:28.67
that's not so much
interested in your W-2,
00:18:28.70\00:18:31.11
where you're sowing a seed to
prove that God has blessed you,
00:18:31.14\00:18:35.38
right, but if you have a church
that's really concerned with
00:18:35.41\00:18:39.61
mind, body and spirit,
00:18:39.65\00:18:41.48
then we would have a church
00:18:41.52\00:18:43.69
that wouldn't be so adjusted,
in my view, to injustice.
00:18:43.72\00:18:47.96
Hmmm... so you
think the church too
00:18:47.99\00:18:51.56
has been adjusted to injustice.
00:18:51.59\00:18:55.00
Complicit... we're complicit...
00:18:55.03\00:18:57.80
see, you can't... in my mind...
00:18:57.83\00:19:00.50
and you know this
might sound a bit radical
00:19:00.54\00:19:04.04
but to my mind,
it's easy to run around
00:19:04.07\00:19:07.54
and say that you're saved,
00:19:07.58\00:19:09.24
you can be a kind of
"Christianly peacock... "
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.75
showing your feathers...
00:19:11.78\00:19:13.35
Yvonne: Ah ha...
00:19:13.38\00:19:14.72
but what does it mean
00:19:14.75\00:19:17.12
to actually bear
witness to the gospel,
00:19:17.15\00:19:19.39
right, that means you have
to challenge the money-changers,
00:19:19.42\00:19:23.32
that means you have to provide
the conditions under which
00:19:23.36\00:19:27.20
those who are
suffering, who can't eat...
00:19:27.23\00:19:30.03
who can't put food on the table,
00:19:30.07\00:19:31.60
who can't put a
roof over their house...
00:19:31.63\00:19:33.57
who are trying to struggle,
00:19:33.60\00:19:34.94
to make sure that their children
can not only dream dreams
00:19:34.97\00:19:37.44
but make those dreams a reality,
00:19:37.47\00:19:39.11
right, to enact the
gospel in real terms,
00:19:39.14\00:19:42.78
in real concrete terms, right?
00:19:42.81\00:19:46.11
But so often...
it seems to me...
00:19:46.15\00:19:49.38
that folk are...
00:19:49.42\00:19:52.85
how can I put this...
00:19:52.89\00:19:54.22
they're more
interested in kind of
00:19:54.26\00:19:55.59
performance of the gospel.
00:19:55.62\00:19:59.33
They act a lot like Pharisees,
if you know what I mean.
00:19:59.36\00:20:03.20
Ah ha... ah ha...
gospel performers...
00:20:03.23\00:20:06.57
Exactly... so I
want a radical church,
00:20:06.60\00:20:09.54
I want a black
church in particular
00:20:09.57\00:20:12.44
that is grounded... not
just simply on the cross,
00:20:12.47\00:20:15.51
but the cross was
evidenced in that lynching tree,
00:20:15.54\00:20:18.55
Jesus is
evidenced in... in... in...
00:20:18.58\00:20:21.88
in the souls who are locked up
in all of these prisons, right,
00:20:21.95\00:20:26.05
evidenced in the
body of Mike Brown...
00:20:26.09\00:20:28.56
in the body of
Sandra Bland, right...
00:20:28.62\00:20:30.99
evidenced in these
children who can't read
00:20:31.03\00:20:33.06
because schools are
failing them day in and day out,
00:20:33.09\00:20:35.56
who can't imagine, right...
00:20:35.60\00:20:37.63
living a life better than
their mothers and fathers,
00:20:37.67\00:20:41.77
if you're going to
really bear witness,
00:20:41.80\00:20:44.34
right... to the love and
compassion and mercy of God,
00:20:44.37\00:20:48.78
right... evidence to the
sacrifice of your Son for us,
00:20:48.84\00:20:52.65
you got to do more than
just simply claim and proclaim
00:20:52.68\00:20:56.45
that you're
saved, that's too easy,
00:20:56.48\00:20:58.69
does that make sense?
00:20:58.75\00:21:02.02
Yes, yes, yes, you're preaching,
you're preaching now...
00:21:02.06\00:21:05.39
Eddie: That's too easy to me...
00:21:05.46\00:21:07.06
Yvonne: But it's
true... it's true...
00:21:07.10\00:21:08.43
it's not just about
an intellectual assent
00:21:08.46\00:21:11.50
to all of this, it
is about backing it up
00:21:11.53\00:21:14.67
with some kind of action
00:21:14.70\00:21:16.10
by not just accepting
00:21:16.14\00:21:18.61
the situation as it is
00:21:18.64\00:21:21.04
because the first
thing you have to do is
00:21:21.08\00:21:22.41
kind of see the
situation for what it is
00:21:22.44\00:21:25.31
and I think, again, internally
00:21:25.35\00:21:28.22
we have to... we have
to make certain choices,
00:21:28.25\00:21:31.25
we have to take responsibility
for certain things
00:21:31.29\00:21:33.59
and externally, you know...
00:21:33.62\00:21:35.92
we have to see that
there are situations
00:21:35.96\00:21:39.13
that have to be
corrected institutionally
00:21:39.16\00:21:42.26
and so, by doing this, I
think, we can come together
00:21:42.30\00:21:46.90
and make a
difference because it's not...
00:21:46.94\00:21:49.80
and I want to make this
clear, this is not about
00:21:49.84\00:21:52.44
you know... saying,
"White people are bad and... "
00:21:52.47\00:21:55.11
Eddie: No... not at all.
Yvonne: This is not that...
00:21:55.14\00:21:57.78
this is saying
that... that structurally...
00:21:57.81\00:22:00.65
we have had a problem in America
00:22:00.68\00:22:03.85
for hundreds of
years that this problem...
00:22:03.89\00:22:07.32
this value gap has to be closed,
00:22:07.36\00:22:10.76
it has to be closed.
00:22:10.79\00:22:12.36
Cornel West is a
good friend of mine
00:22:12.39\00:22:14.86
that many people know about...
00:22:14.90\00:22:16.23
Cornel West jumped into a
pool when he was a young kid
00:22:16.26\00:22:19.73
in Sacramento,
California, all the people...
00:22:19.77\00:22:21.70
all the white kids jumped
out and they emptied the pool,
00:22:21.74\00:22:24.04
right in front of him,
00:22:24.07\00:22:25.41
my colleague, Albert Raboteau,
who wrote a wonderful book
00:22:25.44\00:22:28.71
entitled "Slave Religion"
which is the foundation
00:22:28.74\00:22:31.01
of African American
religious history as a field...
00:22:31.05\00:22:33.28
he didn't grow
up with his father
00:22:33.31\00:22:35.45
because a
Mississippi Store Owner
00:22:35.48\00:22:37.55
blew his father's brains out
because he dared speak to him
00:22:37.59\00:22:40.42
because he thought he
disrespected his wife,
00:22:40.46\00:22:42.36
this isn't
1840... this isn't 1903...
00:22:42.42\00:22:47.83
these are the 1950s and
'60s... right... and so...
00:22:47.86\00:22:52.40
we believe... like I said...
00:22:52.43\00:22:54.14
the last major
piece of legislation
00:22:54.20\00:22:57.01
passed in the
Great Society was 1968...
00:22:57.04\00:22:59.81
the Fair Housing Act...
00:22:59.87\00:23:01.31
which they never,
never implemented...
00:23:01.34\00:23:03.41
just 12 years later,
00:23:03.45\00:23:05.68
there was the
election of Ronald Reagan
00:23:05.71\00:23:07.78
and a systematic
attack on the Great Society.
00:23:07.82\00:23:10.95
So you want to suggest to me
that between 1964 and 1965...
00:23:10.99\00:23:15.26
that's the Civil Rights
Act, the Voting Rights Act,
00:23:15.32\00:23:17.73
and now... it's at '68...
12, 15, 12... years later...
00:23:17.76\00:23:21.76
that suddenly we resolved
centuries of America's race...
00:23:21.80\00:23:25.73
of course not...
and let's be very clear,
00:23:25.77\00:23:28.47
the value gap
doesn't require white people
00:23:28.50\00:23:31.14
in order to be
sustained, all of us...
00:23:31.17\00:23:33.24
are habituated in...
00:23:33.27\00:23:35.51
all of us are reproducing...
00:23:35.54\00:23:37.48
this is the example I use,
00:23:37.55\00:23:39.38
I don't consider myself
a climate-changer denier...
00:23:39.41\00:23:42.08
I think the world
is warming, right,
00:23:42.12\00:23:44.65
but if you look at how I live...
00:23:44.69\00:23:47.16
and the choices I make...
it would seem that I am...
00:23:47.19\00:23:50.83
you look at my car...
you look at my house...
00:23:50.86\00:23:54.36
you look at my
light bulbs, you look...
00:23:54.40\00:23:56.87
the choices that I'm
making day in and day out,
00:23:56.90\00:23:59.60
suggest that I don't believe
that the world is warming.
00:23:59.63\00:24:03.07
But I wouldn't say that
I'm a climate change denier...
00:24:03.10\00:24:06.51
so people can say,
"I'm not a racist... "
00:24:06.57\00:24:09.64
but when they're making choices
00:24:09.68\00:24:11.78
about where they
send their kids to school,
00:24:11.81\00:24:13.42
when they're making
choices about where they live,
00:24:13.45\00:24:16.42
when they're making choices
about what they vote for,
00:24:16.45\00:24:19.39
how they
understand work, how they...
00:24:19.42\00:24:22.09
we're making
choices day in and day out
00:24:22.12\00:24:24.76
that reproduce the value gap,
00:24:24.79\00:24:26.66
it's not because
we're bad people...
00:24:26.70\00:24:30.97
it's because this is the vibe...
00:24:31.00\00:24:32.93
this is the place
we've been socialized in
00:24:32.97\00:24:36.07
and I want to say this
to Christians real quick...
00:24:36.10\00:24:38.44
there's this wonderful...
00:24:38.47\00:24:39.87
there's this extraordinary
moment at Pentecost in Acts...
00:24:39.91\00:24:43.55
and folks are
looking and they say,
00:24:43.58\00:24:45.88
"They must be drunk... "
00:24:45.91\00:24:47.58
because they're
trying to figure out
00:24:47.62\00:24:50.39
something is
different about them.
00:24:50.42\00:24:52.35
Yvonne: Right.
00:24:52.39\00:24:53.72
The way they
inhabit space and time,
00:24:53.76\00:24:56.79
something is
different about them
00:24:56.83\00:24:59.83
and the question that
Christians need to be asking
00:24:59.86\00:25:03.00
is that... are people
thinking that we're drunk?
00:25:03.03\00:25:06.13
Yvonne: Come on now...
00:25:06.17\00:25:07.74
Because it seems to
me that we're so much...
00:25:07.77\00:25:10.61
we're just like everybody else.
00:25:10.64\00:25:12.74
So, how are we
different from the world then
00:25:12.77\00:25:17.85
if we're not
making a difference?
00:25:17.88\00:25:19.88
Exactly... that's the question,
00:25:19.91\00:25:21.85
that's the question
I think every pastor
00:25:21.88\00:25:24.99
needs to be
asking him or herself.
00:25:25.02\00:25:27.46
That's the question
that every person in the pews
00:25:27.49\00:25:30.43
should be asking
him or herself, right...
00:25:30.49\00:25:33.73
what difference am I making
in the world by bearing witness
00:25:33.76\00:25:38.90
to the sacrifice
of Jesus, right...
00:25:38.93\00:25:41.70
on my behalf... right...
00:25:41.74\00:25:43.81
and if the church is
not making a difference
00:25:43.84\00:25:46.11
in the
day-to-day lives of people
00:25:46.14\00:25:48.51
in the communities
that they reside in,
00:25:48.54\00:25:51.48
if the church is
so... how can I put this?
00:25:51.51\00:25:54.25
It seems to me that churches
00:25:54.28\00:25:56.08
are more interested in
strategies like Wal-Mart
00:25:56.12\00:25:59.05
and Home Depot,
00:25:59.09\00:26:00.42
I'm going to buy a big
piece of land out in the suburbs
00:26:00.46\00:26:04.26
and I'm going to
build this huge complex
00:26:04.29\00:26:06.63
and dat... dat... dat...
sounds like a Wal-Mart strategy,
00:26:06.70\00:26:10.53
a big box strategy, right...
00:26:10.57\00:26:12.13
what are you doing
for all of these people
00:26:12.17\00:26:15.64
who are coming out of prison?
00:26:15.67\00:26:17.01
What are you doing for all these
people who've lost their homes?
00:26:17.04\00:26:20.01
What are you doing
for all of these people
00:26:20.04\00:26:22.18
who are having
to make a decision
00:26:22.21\00:26:23.95
of putting food on the table
00:26:23.98\00:26:25.75
or keeping a
roof over their heads?
00:26:25.81\00:26:27.45
How are you
addressing the least of these?
00:26:27.48\00:26:30.69
How are you addressing
the least of these...?
00:26:30.75\00:26:33.36
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:26:33.39\00:26:34.72
That has nothing to do...
00:26:34.76\00:26:36.16
that has nothing to do
00:26:36.19\00:26:37.59
with whether or
not somebody is racist,
00:26:37.63\00:26:40.13
somebody is lazy,
00:26:40.16\00:26:41.60
it's called bearing
witness to the gospel
00:26:41.63\00:26:43.60
that you
supposedly are committed to.
00:26:43.63\00:26:45.53
Dr. Glaude, that is
so rich, you know what?
00:26:45.57\00:26:49.77
you have got to come back again,
00:26:49.80\00:26:52.01
in fact, I really wish
you'd come and see us here
00:26:52.07\00:26:54.91
but if you can't...
00:26:54.94\00:26:56.28
if I can just get
you on Skype again,
00:26:56.31\00:26:57.75
I want to do that
because there's so much...
00:26:57.78\00:26:59.95
I didn't even go
through your journey,
00:26:59.98\00:27:02.05
I want to go
through your journey,
00:27:02.08\00:27:04.05
I want to find
out more about you,
00:27:04.09\00:27:05.99
we didn't even
get to all that...
00:27:06.02\00:27:07.86
there's so much
more, will you come back?
00:27:07.92\00:27:10.19
Absolutely, absolutely...
00:27:10.23\00:27:12.13
Oh that would be great
because there's so much more
00:27:12.16\00:27:14.53
do you have a closing
thought like... 10 seconds...
00:27:14.56\00:27:16.90
a closing
thought for the Viewers?
00:27:16.93\00:27:19.53
The only thing I say is that
00:27:19.57\00:27:20.90
if we're going to
uproot the value gap,
00:27:20.94\00:27:22.27
we're going to have to
have a revolution of value...
00:27:22.30\00:27:24.44
that means... we're
going to have to change
00:27:24.47\00:27:26.54
our view of Government,
00:27:26.57\00:27:28.11
which means... we have to
change our demand of Government.
00:27:28.14\00:27:30.15
We have to change
our view of black people,
00:27:30.18\00:27:32.75
to change our
view of black people...
00:27:32.78\00:27:34.48
that means we're
going to have to change
00:27:34.52\00:27:35.85
our view of white people
00:27:35.88\00:27:37.22
and lastly, we got to change our
view of what ultimately matters.
00:27:37.25\00:27:40.26
We can't have a Society
based upon selfishness, greed
00:27:40.29\00:27:43.83
and narcissism,
00:27:43.86\00:27:45.19
instead, we have to have
the Society based on the fact
00:27:45.23\00:27:48.06
that every human
being should be extended
00:27:48.10\00:27:50.27
dignity and standing
00:27:50.30\00:27:51.63
because every human
being is a child of God.
00:27:51.67\00:27:53.60
Thank you so
much, may God bless you
00:27:53.64\00:27:56.64
and thank you so
much for joining us,
00:27:56.71\00:27:59.04
join us next time
because you know what?
00:27:59.07\00:28:01.38
It just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:28:01.41\00:28:03.68