Are you one of those people
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.70
that thinks that the
Church is a hospital for sinners
00:00:02.73\00:00:05.00
well stay tuned to meet a man
00:00:05.03\00:00:07.07
who has a unique
perspective on this issue.
00:00:07.10\00:00:09.40
My name is Jason Bradley
00:00:09.44\00:00:10.91
and you're
watching Urban Report.
00:00:10.94\00:00:13.01
Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
00:00:36.06\00:00:37.73
My guest today is
Pastor Byron Hill Senior.
00:00:37.77\00:00:40.70
Pastor Hill has served as a
Seventh-day Adventist Pastor
00:00:40.74\00:00:44.17
for 43 years and is
here to shed some light
00:00:44.21\00:00:47.34
on the statement that:
Church is a hospital for sinners
00:00:47.38\00:00:50.65
welcome to Urban
Report Pastor Hill.
00:00:50.68\00:00:52.81
Thank you, glad to be here.
00:00:52.85\00:00:54.52
So, tell us a little
bit about your background,
00:00:54.55\00:00:57.29
tell us a little bit
about where you're from,
00:00:57.32\00:01:00.02
do you have any siblings?
00:01:00.06\00:01:03.22
My father was a
Seventh-day Adventist Pastor,
00:01:03.29\00:01:05.79
my mother was a
Church School Teacher,
00:01:05.83\00:01:08.26
they both
attended Oakwood College.
00:01:08.33\00:01:10.57
The family consisted
of four boys and one girl
00:01:10.60\00:01:15.70
and two of the
brothers were Adventist Pastors.
00:01:15.74\00:01:20.98
My oldest brother, Franklin,
00:01:21.04\00:01:22.64
passed away a
couple of years ago,
00:01:22.68\00:01:24.38
and my youngest brother,
Halloren is more into radio work
00:01:24.41\00:01:30.69
and TV work.
00:01:30.75\00:01:32.15
He's an amazing producer too,
I've heard some of his music
00:01:32.19\00:01:36.36
and his tracks and
he's talented... blessed.
00:01:36.39\00:01:40.06
Yes, he likes that and
so... that was our family
00:01:40.10\00:01:43.83
we grew up in a home
that really was very positive
00:01:43.87\00:01:47.54
about the church and
that is that they were
00:01:47.60\00:01:50.67
very careful not to
say anything negative
00:01:50.71\00:01:53.74
about the church around us.
00:01:53.78\00:01:55.61
My mother would even go into
00:01:55.64\00:01:57.18
Pig Latin if she wanted to
mention something about a member
00:01:57.21\00:02:01.82
and they were really trying
to keep it really careful that
00:02:01.85\00:02:06.22
the people in the church
were basically good people
00:02:06.25\00:02:09.12
and they didn't
talk about them around us
00:02:09.16\00:02:11.66
so we thought the church was
00:02:11.69\00:02:13.46
very good... as a
place... to be a part of.
00:02:13.50\00:02:16.50
Ah ha, they didn't want...
they didn't want you to think
00:02:16.53\00:02:19.33
anything negative
about the church at all,
00:02:19.37\00:02:21.87
would you say that your parents
00:02:21.90\00:02:23.41
played a big role in
you becoming a pastor?
00:02:23.44\00:02:25.87
Oh yes, yes, just
being around them...
00:02:25.91\00:02:29.41
they were very upbeat
people, positive people
00:02:29.44\00:02:32.61
and my father never
00:02:32.65\00:02:35.72
pushed either of us that
became pastors to be a pastor,
00:02:35.75\00:02:40.52
he just seemed
to enjoy himself...
00:02:40.56\00:02:42.99
we would go to Camp Pitch...
00:02:43.02\00:02:46.39
that was an event that
took place before Camp Meeting
00:02:46.43\00:02:49.70
where the preachers
helped put up the tents,
00:02:49.73\00:02:52.00
and all the preachers
there... we knew personally,
00:02:52.03\00:02:55.00
they seemed to be
very happy, positive people
00:02:55.07\00:02:57.87
and so we just had a knack
of leaning toward liking pastors
00:02:57.91\00:03:02.81
and liking the church.
00:03:02.84\00:03:04.35
So you were a
pastor, Dr. Hill is a pastor
00:03:04.38\00:03:09.22
and your other
brother was a pastor as well
00:03:09.25\00:03:13.99
correct? Pr. Hill: Yes...
00:03:14.02\00:03:15.36
Okay, wow! three pastors!
And what did your dad do?
00:03:15.39\00:03:18.69
Well, he was an Adventist
Pastor... a regular pastor
00:03:18.73\00:03:22.76
he was one of the first
hired in... I think, 1946...
00:03:22.80\00:03:26.84
as a pastor
coming out of Oakwood
00:03:26.87\00:03:29.10
when they were just
developing Black Conferences
00:03:29.17\00:03:32.54
and so, that was just
our life... the church.
00:03:32.57\00:03:35.84
Jason: Wow! Pr.
Hill: The church...
00:03:35.88\00:03:37.91
So, I want to get...
because there's a lot of meat
00:03:37.95\00:03:41.65
that we have to cover and
you oftentimes hear that...
00:03:41.68\00:03:45.19
that saying... that the church
is a hospital for sinners,
00:03:45.22\00:03:48.46
you disagree with that
00:03:48.52\00:03:50.69
and I want to find
out why... why that is...
00:03:50.73\00:03:55.43
Well, if you ask
almost anyone to tell you
00:03:55.46\00:04:00.10
where the
thought or the expression
00:04:00.14\00:04:04.77
"The Church is a
hospital for sinners" came from,
00:04:04.81\00:04:08.44
you would get
very different answers
00:04:08.48\00:04:11.45
and I asked somebody
recently, just a few days ago,
00:04:11.48\00:04:15.82
where did you
00:04:15.85\00:04:17.19
get that statement...
how did you hear it first?
00:04:17.22\00:04:19.52
And they just named a pastor...
00:04:19.55\00:04:21.06
then I asked another
person right around...
00:04:21.09\00:04:22.99
and they said, "Well, I
just heard it at church"
00:04:23.02\00:04:25.26
and so, finding an originator
of the first person to state it
00:04:25.29\00:04:31.30
or write it... I think you
would find it very difficult
00:04:31.33\00:04:35.37
some people even say that
Saint Augustine originated it
00:04:35.40\00:04:39.41
or Chrysostom
originated the statement
00:04:39.44\00:04:42.04
but the problem comes in
when you try to find a primary
00:04:42.08\00:04:45.61
reference for either
men... you can't find one.
00:04:45.65\00:04:49.38
Yeah and it seems
like it's generational
00:04:49.42\00:04:52.29
like this has been passed down
from generation to generation
00:04:52.32\00:04:55.29
to generation
because I've heard it
00:04:55.32\00:04:56.86
I mean... all throughout my life
00:04:56.89\00:04:59.39
and I couldn't tell you
where it came from either.
00:04:59.43\00:05:01.66
Well and most...
and I was like that too,
00:05:01.70\00:05:03.80
that's why I said,
"Let me try to find out"
00:05:03.83\00:05:07.20
and surprisingly, I
thought I had kind of
00:05:07.24\00:05:10.61
nailed it down...
when I say, in my booklet,
00:05:10.64\00:05:13.98
that Morton T.
Kelsey originated it,
00:05:14.01\00:05:17.45
Morton T. Kelsey
was an Episcopal Priest
00:05:17.48\00:05:20.82
and a Writer and
kind of a Counselor
00:05:20.85\00:05:25.55
and he was born in 1817 and then
00:05:25.59\00:05:30.23
as I began to
still kind of verify it
00:05:30.26\00:05:33.73
because I had a book
that he states it in,
00:05:33.76\00:05:37.00
and in his book he
says this, on page 40...
00:05:37.03\00:05:40.24
I think it's 42 and 43 he says,
00:05:40.27\00:05:42.40
"The Church is not
a museum for saints,
00:05:42.44\00:05:47.54
but it is a hospital
for recovering sinners. "
00:05:47.58\00:05:53.28
And boy! I said, "I
have it, I have it,"
00:05:53.31\00:05:56.25
but as I continued to
try to find the origin,
00:05:56.28\00:06:00.09
I was very surprised to find out
00:06:00.12\00:06:03.06
that "Dear Abby"
in 1964 April the 1st,
00:06:03.09\00:06:10.40
made a statement in a
newspaper, in her column,
00:06:10.43\00:06:14.44
and there was a
couple that had been
00:06:14.47\00:06:16.97
living together for 32 years
00:06:17.01\00:06:18.51
and they wanted
to get back to church
00:06:18.54\00:06:20.88
but they had not
been married yet...
00:06:20.91\00:06:23.14
they had a few kids,
so they wrote to her...
00:06:23.18\00:06:25.25
they felt like
they were too sinful
00:06:25.28\00:06:26.82
to be accepted in the church,
00:06:26.85\00:06:29.58
so they said,
"What shall we do?"
00:06:29.62\00:06:31.69
And she said,
00:06:31.72\00:06:33.05
"I believe that if
you go to the church
00:06:33.09\00:06:35.46
and talk to the pastor,
he'll work out a plan for you
00:06:35.49\00:06:39.16
and you can kind
of quietly get married
00:06:39.19\00:06:42.73
and then just be a
regular member of the church. "
00:06:42.76\00:06:45.77
And in that context, she said,
00:06:45.80\00:06:48.07
"Remember, the church
is a hospital for sinners,"
00:06:48.10\00:06:51.94
that was back in
1964 and I believe now
00:06:51.97\00:06:55.91
that more people could
have gotten it from "Dear Abby"
00:06:55.94\00:06:59.85
than any place else.
00:06:59.88\00:07:01.65
Yeah, yeah,
that's a possibility,
00:07:01.68\00:07:03.99
I think it's
interesting that you said
00:07:04.02\00:07:05.99
that they felt like they were
too sinful to join the church,
00:07:06.02\00:07:09.49
you see... I mean... that's what
the devil wants you to think
00:07:09.52\00:07:12.86
because you've gone
so far away from God
00:07:12.89\00:07:16.97
that he wants you to think that
00:07:17.00\00:07:18.33
there's no turning back
that God doesn't want you
00:07:18.37\00:07:20.64
but we know... that's not true,
00:07:20.67\00:07:22.50
we know that God
wants to save us,
00:07:22.54\00:07:24.11
he wants to save
each and every one of us
00:07:24.14\00:07:26.24
but we have to make
that choice to follow Him,
00:07:26.27\00:07:28.54
so...
00:07:28.61\00:07:30.41
why do you feel
that it's so important
00:07:30.45\00:07:32.61
to share this
message with the church?
00:07:32.65\00:07:34.82
Well, basically I believe
00:07:34.85\00:07:37.52
that when you look at
the church as a hospital,
00:07:37.55\00:07:41.56
you will begin to make excuses
00:07:41.59\00:07:46.46
for people who are
not growing spiritually,
00:07:46.49\00:07:49.53
when you look at the
church as a hospital,
00:07:49.56\00:07:53.57
church discipline
either completely goes away
00:07:53.64\00:07:57.27
or is rarely applied
because a person can say,
00:07:57.31\00:08:00.44
"Well, I'm just sick...
" and who would want to be
00:08:00.48\00:08:04.28
hurting or causing a sick
person to even suffer more?
00:08:04.31\00:08:07.82
"We're all recovering
so just have mercy on me. "
00:08:07.85\00:08:11.45
So are you saying that
people are getting complacent?
00:08:11.52\00:08:14.12
Are you saying that
people use that saying
00:08:14.16\00:08:17.23
to just be stuck in their ways
and become habitual sinners?
00:08:17.26\00:08:21.06
Yes, I believe that... that...
00:08:21.10\00:08:23.60
that they begin to
make excuses for others
00:08:23.63\00:08:26.77
and make excuses for
themselves, and so...
00:08:26.80\00:08:29.74
and I think that oftentimes,
people sincerely believe
00:08:29.77\00:08:32.87
if they know somebody
who is not attending church,
00:08:32.91\00:08:35.88
either they're
completely a non-Christian
00:08:35.91\00:08:38.98
but even those who
were once Christians,
00:08:39.01\00:08:42.02
to encourage and to come back,
00:08:42.08\00:08:43.99
and they say,
"Well, I'm too bad... "
00:08:44.02\00:08:45.35
"Oh, the church is a
hospital for sinners... "
00:08:45.39\00:08:47.36
you'll be fine...
just come on back,
00:08:47.39\00:08:49.06
"We're all sinners... "
they'll say something like that.
00:08:49.09\00:08:51.63
Ah ha... now,
what do you think about
00:08:51.69\00:08:55.13
people in the church that...
they say, "Don't judge me... "
00:08:55.16\00:09:00.57
or telling people
not to be so judgmental?
00:09:00.60\00:09:03.64
What do you think
about that situation?
00:09:03.67\00:09:07.38
I think, in the
context of judging a person
00:09:07.44\00:09:11.11
and not knowing
their actual motives
00:09:11.15\00:09:13.88
is not something we should do,
00:09:13.92\00:09:17.02
but in the same chapter it
talks about "Judge not... "
00:09:17.05\00:09:21.09
also, continues by saying
that you should be able to
00:09:21.12\00:09:25.09
recognize people by their fruit,
00:09:25.13\00:09:27.76
you know...
00:09:27.80\00:09:29.33
Not to cut you off
but... it's a part of this...
00:09:29.36\00:09:33.84
there... you have
that verse in the Bible
00:09:33.87\00:09:37.14
that also talks about
"no man knows a man's heart"
00:09:37.17\00:09:40.38
or something along those lines,
00:09:40.41\00:09:42.38
but then you also have the verse
00:09:42.41\00:09:44.35
that you're talking
about... with the fruit...
00:09:44.38\00:09:46.61
"by their fruit,
you shall know them"
00:09:46.65\00:09:48.38
so, unpack that.
00:09:48.42\00:09:51.32
Well, I think sometimes,
00:09:51.35\00:09:53.42
people can
assume they can tell...
00:09:53.46\00:09:56.52
will the person
will be saved or lost.
00:09:56.56\00:09:59.59
They'll make a
judgment call, and they'll say,
00:09:59.63\00:10:02.36
"They'll never
make it to heaven"
00:10:02.40\00:10:03.77
and based on how they
are conducting themselves,
00:10:03.80\00:10:06.87
they probably wouldn't,
but what they can't know
00:10:06.94\00:10:10.21
is if the person will
change or make a decision
00:10:10.24\00:10:13.48
to turn around, so a
judgment like that...
00:10:13.51\00:10:16.21
as sometimes the Jews did...
they would look at the Gentiles
00:10:16.24\00:10:19.35
and say, "Oh, they're lost...
they can work on the Sabbath
00:10:19.38\00:10:22.45
but we don't work on the Sabbath
00:10:22.48\00:10:23.82
because they're not
going to be saved anyway"
00:10:23.85\00:10:25.95
and if you make a
judgment like that,
00:10:25.99\00:10:28.52
I think that's out of place,
00:10:28.56\00:10:30.53
but I think by the same token
00:10:30.56\00:10:32.46
if there's someone
whose openly sinning,
00:10:32.49\00:10:35.96
let's say they are in a
situation where they are
00:10:36.03\00:10:39.53
committing
adultery or fornication,
00:10:39.57\00:10:42.20
they're
drinking, they're smoking,
00:10:42.24\00:10:44.71
they're going to all types
of un-Christian environments,
00:10:44.74\00:10:48.78
you can say, "You
are not following God,
00:10:48.84\00:10:52.81
if you continue to
openly do these things...
00:10:52.85\00:10:55.98
or even secretly...
because you're out of His will"
00:10:56.02\00:10:58.92
and so, you can tell them,
00:10:58.95\00:11:00.99
"You need to get to
God, you need to turn around"
00:11:01.02\00:11:03.53
that's a judgment call,
people can make judgment calls
00:11:03.56\00:11:07.03
and they do when they say
that a person is a good person.
00:11:07.06\00:11:10.50
That's a judgment call,
00:11:10.53\00:11:12.30
you don't really
know their heart,
00:11:12.33\00:11:13.94
you don't even know
what they do in secret,
00:11:13.97\00:11:15.97
but based on what
you kind of see, you say,
00:11:16.00\00:11:17.97
"Oh, they're
good... they're just...
00:11:18.04\00:11:20.31
they're going to
probably be right in heaven"
00:11:20.34\00:11:22.08
you're making a call...
and you might be surprised
00:11:22.11\00:11:24.75
if you get to heaven
and you don't see them.
00:11:24.78\00:11:26.72
Hmmm... hmmm... yeah... I
think it's also a fine line
00:11:26.75\00:11:31.49
because you don't
want to throw rocks
00:11:31.52\00:11:33.32
if you're living in a
glass house, so to speak.
00:11:33.36\00:11:35.62
Right, right,
right, right, right.
00:11:35.66\00:11:37.26
So, if you're telling somebody,
00:11:37.29\00:11:39.89
"You know, you
shouldn't be smoking,
00:11:39.93\00:11:41.86
you shouldn't be
drinking because,
00:11:41.90\00:11:43.87
you know, it's
not in God's will"
00:11:43.90\00:11:45.63
but then, you're
going and smoking
00:11:45.67\00:11:47.24
and drinking every now and then,
00:11:47.27\00:11:48.74
it's like you have to get
the mote out of your own eye
00:11:48.80\00:11:51.34
before you can get the
speck out of your brother's eye
00:11:51.37\00:11:53.88
but that's very
interesting information,
00:11:53.91\00:11:56.41
so tell us a little bit more
about what's in this booklet.
00:11:56.44\00:12:00.95
This booklet is really
seeking to do one thing,
00:12:00.98\00:12:06.12
it's trying to say,
"When you look at the church,
00:12:06.15\00:12:11.23
don't look at the
church as a hospital,
00:12:11.26\00:12:15.30
but look at the
church as an Army"
00:12:15.36\00:12:18.07
and so, there are several
00:12:18.10\00:12:21.74
descriptions of the
church in Scripture,
00:12:21.77\00:12:23.41
the church is
described as a building at times
00:12:23.44\00:12:26.64
it's described as
the Body of Christ
00:12:26.68\00:12:29.04
it's described as a vineyard,
it's described as a woman
00:12:29.08\00:12:33.11
but you don't have it
ever described as a hospital.
00:12:33.18\00:12:37.15
You do have statements about
people being sick in the Bible,
00:12:37.19\00:12:42.82
but the amazing thing
when Israel came out of Egypt
00:12:42.86\00:12:47.33
we're told that there was not
00:12:47.36\00:12:50.07
one sick person among them
00:12:50.10\00:12:52.73
and they were in the
millions, maybe 2 or 3 millions
00:12:52.77\00:12:55.84
and the expression that there
was no sick person among them
00:12:55.87\00:12:59.67
was talking about
physical sickness,
00:12:59.71\00:13:01.04
but it was to illustrate
what God could do for people
00:13:01.08\00:13:04.28
spiritually...
within His church,
00:13:04.31\00:13:06.01
you see the
great text in the Bible
00:13:06.08\00:13:09.02
is in Jeremiah 8:22,
when it just asks a question,
00:13:09.05\00:13:14.26
"Is there no balm in Gilead,
is there no Physician there?"
00:13:14.29\00:13:18.46
And it continues...
but the basic idea...
00:13:18.49\00:13:21.46
if Christ is
the Great Physician,
00:13:21.50\00:13:23.90
why won't He heal
sick people spiritually
00:13:23.97\00:13:28.40
as He did when He was on earth
00:13:28.47\00:13:31.01
healing people physically
00:13:31.04\00:13:32.97
there were whole villages
00:13:33.01\00:13:34.91
but there was not
one sick person there
00:13:34.94\00:13:37.65
because Jesus
had passed through it
00:13:37.68\00:13:40.25
so in His own church...
why would He just let people
00:13:40.28\00:13:43.28
remain sick two years,
three years, thirty years
00:13:43.32\00:13:46.19
and He won't heal them?
00:13:46.22\00:13:47.56
Because the great
call for Christ just says,
00:13:47.59\00:13:50.99
"I didn't come to
call the righteous
00:13:51.03\00:13:52.53
but sinners to repentance. "
00:13:52.56\00:13:54.76
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:13:54.80\00:13:56.23
The way Christ heals a person
00:13:56.26\00:13:58.13
is He forgives their
sins if they're sincere,
00:13:58.17\00:14:02.00
so everybody in the
church can become well
00:14:02.04\00:14:05.84
by having sins forgiven.
00:14:05.87\00:14:08.51
Yes and that's not to say
00:14:08.54\00:14:11.11
that you're once
saved... always saved.
00:14:11.15\00:14:13.35
Correct? Because I
think, then, a lot of people...
00:14:13.38\00:14:15.95
some people
might misconstrue that
00:14:15.98\00:14:17.59
and we definitely don't
want them to be mistaken that
00:14:17.62\00:14:20.82
once saved... always
saved... that's not the case.
00:14:20.86\00:14:23.83
And so, have you ever
pastored hospitalized "sinners?"
00:14:23.86\00:14:30.07
Yes, there have been
people that chronically complain
00:14:30.10\00:14:36.54
about how hurt they are,
how offended they have been...
00:14:36.57\00:14:42.94
they've been... how offended...
someone has treated them
00:14:42.98\00:14:49.28
in a way that the
church is just a terrible place
00:14:49.32\00:14:53.72
and so they threaten to
leave, they talk about...
00:14:53.76\00:14:58.06
"There are a whole lot of
hypocrites in this church...
00:14:58.09\00:15:00.20
there's not enough
love in this church"
00:15:00.23\00:15:01.83
and they go on and on...
00:15:01.86\00:15:03.20
and usually they
don't do much work
00:15:03.23\00:15:04.90
in terms of
bringing souls to Christ
00:15:04.93\00:15:07.14
because they are sick...
whether they know it or not
00:15:07.17\00:15:10.74
and so, I pastor
people like that...
00:15:10.77\00:15:13.61
like most pastors have...
00:15:13.64\00:15:14.98
and then there are
the other people...
00:15:15.01\00:15:16.81
they have a
sweetness about them,
00:15:16.85\00:15:18.81
they have a great desire to
bring souls to Jesus Christ,
00:15:18.85\00:15:22.25
they love the Lord,
00:15:22.28\00:15:23.89
they don't talk about the
mistreatment they received,
00:15:23.92\00:15:27.02
they just kind of say,
00:15:27.06\00:15:28.49
"This is just a
part of Satan's work
00:15:28.52\00:15:30.99
to try to
dishearten me or discourage me
00:15:31.03\00:15:33.46
but I will not be that. "
00:15:33.50\00:15:34.86
Hmmm... hmmm...
hmmm... so let me ask you this,
00:15:34.90\00:15:38.30
how do we... how do
we make that shift...
00:15:38.33\00:15:41.27
how do we change that paradigm?
00:15:41.30\00:15:43.07
That was a great question,
00:15:43.10\00:15:44.97
I believe that the best way
to look at this whole concept is
00:15:45.01\00:15:50.41
to say, "What's
the best thing to do
00:15:50.45\00:15:52.85
for people that
come into the church
00:15:52.91\00:15:55.28
or are already in the church?"
00:15:55.32\00:15:56.72
There's a statement
00:15:56.75\00:15:58.25
in the Spirit of
Prophecy that says this,
00:15:58.29\00:16:01.42
"The best medicine
that we can give members
00:16:01.46\00:16:04.99
is to give them work
to do, not sermonizing...
00:16:05.06\00:16:08.56
but give them something to do
00:16:08.60\00:16:10.23
this will
strengthen them in a great way"
00:16:10.27\00:16:12.97
and so the church...
instead of being a hospital,
00:16:13.00\00:16:15.47
where we're
constantly treating people,
00:16:15.50\00:16:17.31
becomes a place where we're
constantly training people...
00:16:17.34\00:16:21.41
equipping people
to work for souls.
00:16:21.44\00:16:24.81
Jason: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:16:24.85\00:16:26.38
so that's how the
church should function
00:16:26.41\00:16:28.25
it's to equip people to get
out, go work and go win souls
00:16:28.28\00:16:31.92
but the reformation
has to take place...
00:16:31.95\00:16:34.49
or the revival has to
take place within the church
00:16:34.52\00:16:38.06
before they can
go out and win souls.
00:16:38.09\00:16:41.70
Right... I was in...
I pastored in Oakland
00:16:41.73\00:16:45.50
and so... two
people got a handbill
00:16:45.53\00:16:48.47
and they were about to
break up their marriage
00:16:48.50\00:16:51.71
and they just said, "Let's
go to this Revelation Seminar"
00:16:51.74\00:16:54.84
and they attended
00:16:54.88\00:16:56.21
and they were not
regular-going church people,
00:16:56.24\00:17:00.22
the gentleman... he would
wear a nice bright yellow suit
00:17:00.25\00:17:05.99
with yellow
shoes, gold in his mouth,
00:17:06.02\00:17:10.63
driving a Cadillac and...
so they came to the meeting
00:17:10.66\00:17:15.50
and they attended very regularly
and they were baptized.
00:17:15.53\00:17:20.34
They were on the roll,
00:17:20.37\00:17:22.27
they were baptized in
the Immanuel Temple Church
00:17:22.30\00:17:25.17
in Oakland and
so they got baptized
00:17:25.21\00:17:27.24
and so... it just
came to my mind...
00:17:27.28\00:17:29.24
I said, "Why don't I have
them do a Revelation Seminar?"
00:17:29.28\00:17:33.48
And boy! they did
not like that idea.
00:17:33.52\00:17:37.02
But my idea was...
00:17:37.09\00:17:39.19
I want to put them to
work as soon as possible
00:17:39.22\00:17:41.62
and so, they finally gave in,
00:17:41.69\00:17:44.03
because I was
kind of determined,
00:17:44.06\00:17:46.39
I said, "I'll be
there every night with you
00:17:46.43\00:17:48.46
I have the book...
the same book I use,
00:17:48.50\00:17:50.23
I'm going to give
you that same book,
00:17:50.27\00:17:51.97
you just do one
lesson at a time"
00:17:52.00\00:17:54.24
and so they finally consented
00:17:54.27\00:17:55.74
and they hadn't gone
to college or anything
00:17:55.77\00:17:58.54
but... you know... so
they had some challenges
00:17:58.57\00:18:01.18
reading certain words... even.
00:18:01.21\00:18:02.54
They got up there, both of them,
every time we had the Seminar
00:18:02.58\00:18:06.21
and then all their
relatives came out,
00:18:06.25\00:18:08.12
they finished the
Seminar and at this point...
00:18:08.15\00:18:12.25
they have been in the
church now for nine years
00:18:12.29\00:18:16.19
leading on as a deacon
that has keys to the church
00:18:16.22\00:18:19.79
and his wife is a
Sabbath School Superintendent
00:18:19.83\00:18:23.16
and I think it was them
becoming active right away
00:18:23.20\00:18:26.53
that has helped them
remain in the church.
00:18:26.57\00:18:28.90
Wow! yeah it's not like
come in and then forget them
00:18:28.97\00:18:33.27
they come in, we
embrace them and equip them
00:18:33.31\00:18:36.21
to go out and teach others.
00:18:36.24\00:18:37.65
Pr. Hill: Yes, yes, yes.
00:18:37.68\00:18:39.01
All right, that's amazing,
what are some Scriptures
00:18:39.05\00:18:43.15
that can support
what's in your booklet?
00:18:43.18\00:18:46.76
I think one of the
very best Scriptures
00:18:46.82\00:18:50.36
that talks about this idea
00:18:50.39\00:18:53.13
is in 2nd Timothy
chapter 2 and verse 3
00:18:53.16\00:19:00.04
and here's what it says,
00:19:00.10\00:19:01.44
it says, "Thou
therefore endure hardness,
00:19:01.47\00:19:05.71
as a good
soldier of Jesus Christ"
00:19:05.74\00:19:08.28
"Timothy... I want
you to be a tough soldier
00:19:08.31\00:19:16.02
for Jesus Christ," and
so, that one Scripture there
00:19:16.08\00:19:19.42
is a very powerful
Scripture that talks about this
00:19:19.45\00:19:22.66
and then as we think about
Christ... looking for a church
00:19:22.69\00:19:29.13
ultimately, as
Ephesians talks about,
00:19:29.16\00:19:31.57
that doesn't
have spot or wrinkle,
00:19:31.63\00:19:33.97
He's coming back for a church
that is completely blameless
00:19:34.00\00:19:38.87
now they have to depend
on Christ's righteousness
00:19:38.91\00:19:42.34
to become that way
and remain that way
00:19:42.38\00:19:45.61
but His church
that He's coming for
00:19:45.65\00:19:48.88
will have a
bunch... a whole group...
00:19:48.92\00:19:52.05
of dedicated, righteous people
00:19:52.09\00:19:55.49
who love Him and work for
Him with all their hearts.
00:19:55.52\00:19:58.59
Yeah, He's coming
for a purified bride.
00:19:58.66\00:20:00.53
Pr. Hill: Yes, yes He is.
00:20:00.56\00:20:02.23
Man! there's so
much in this booklet,
00:20:02.26\00:20:08.57
how can people get this booklet,
00:20:08.60\00:20:11.84
how can they contact you,
00:20:11.87\00:20:13.44
how can they get in touch
with you so they can get this?
00:20:13.48\00:20:15.44
They can just e-mail me at
00:20:15.48\00:20:21.82
ByronHill5153@me. com
00:20:21.88\00:20:28.19
that's: me. com
00:20:28.22\00:20:30.36
and they'll be
able to contact me
00:20:30.39\00:20:32.29
and we can discuss about
how they can get the booklet.
00:20:32.33\00:20:36.20
Oh, wonderful and what
inspired you to write this...
00:20:36.23\00:20:40.07
out of all topics that
you could have selected,
00:20:40.14\00:20:43.54
what inspired you to
write this particular booklet
00:20:43.61\00:20:46.98
at this particular time?
00:20:47.01\00:20:50.05
I think when I got a glimpse
00:20:50.08\00:20:53.01
of what happens when
you put people to work...
00:20:53.08\00:20:56.65
I used to teach at an Academy,
00:20:56.69\00:20:59.15
Rio Lindo Academy in
Healdsburg, California,
00:20:59.22\00:21:01.72
I taught there for seven years,
00:21:01.76\00:21:03.46
I was the Bible teacher
for Sophomores and Juniors
00:21:03.49\00:21:07.10
and also the Church Pastor,
00:21:07.13\00:21:08.46
I had never worked
with teenagers this closely
00:21:08.50\00:21:11.53
and so I saw
them every school day
00:21:11.57\00:21:14.54
and then on the weekend and so,
00:21:14.57\00:21:17.51
we would have our
regular Weeks of Prayer...
00:21:17.54\00:21:21.01
and we had even invited
through the time I was there,
00:21:21.04\00:21:23.88
we had Doug Batchelor
before, he was well known,
00:21:23.91\00:21:26.21
Lonnie Melashenko, Jose Rojas,
00:21:26.25\00:21:29.28
we would just try
to get the best in...
00:21:29.32\00:21:31.05
for Weeks of Prayer for them
00:21:31.09\00:21:32.75
and then we'd have a
Student Week of Prayer, so...
00:21:32.79\00:21:34.99
Oh, now explain
that... so the students...
00:21:35.02\00:21:37.93
The students would lead out in
the Week of Prayer themselves,
00:21:37.96\00:21:41.00
we didn't have a
guest speaker, we just...
00:21:41.06\00:21:42.40
the students
would speak and then
00:21:42.43\00:21:44.30
that was a
Student Week of Prayer,
00:21:44.33\00:21:46.30
so, we were
getting close to one...
00:21:46.33\00:21:48.24
and so the Science Teacher,
Ron, spoke to me after Chapel,
00:21:48.27\00:21:53.91
he said, "Byron... " he said...
00:21:53.98\00:21:56.18
"We talk about
having Week of Prayer
00:21:56.21\00:21:59.81
but we don't do much praying. "
00:21:59.85\00:22:01.38
and I didn't take
it as a bad statement,
00:22:01.42\00:22:04.19
and I said, "What
do you mean, Ron?"
00:22:04.22\00:22:06.96
he said, "Well, I'm
a Chemistry teacher,"
00:22:06.99\00:22:09.22
he said, "but I have
to get kids in the Lab
00:22:09.26\00:22:11.53
to do experiments
00:22:11.56\00:22:12.89
if they're going to
really understand Chemistry"
00:22:12.93\00:22:15.40
and so he said, "I just think
00:22:15.46\00:22:17.23
that a Week of Prayer
should have more prayer"
00:22:17.27\00:22:19.47
I said, "Wow! so
how can we do it?"
00:22:19.50\00:22:22.47
he didn't know a
solution, he just had an idea
00:22:22.50\00:22:24.87
so we talked
awhile, came back again
00:22:24.94\00:22:27.38
and so we decided,
"Let's try this out... "
00:22:27.41\00:22:30.61
so we said,
"Let's have the students
00:22:30.65\00:22:32.68
instead of coming together
to hear a Student Speaker...
00:22:32.71\00:22:37.22
let's have them broken
up... girls in their own dorms,
00:22:37.25\00:22:41.59
boys in their own dorms,
00:22:41.62\00:22:43.26
we're going to get a Leader
00:22:43.29\00:22:44.83
and he's going to have three
others to come to his room,
00:22:44.86\00:22:49.13
during this week,
00:22:49.16\00:22:50.57
they'll have a piece of
paper that has a Scripture,
00:22:50.60\00:22:53.27
maybe a Spirit of Prophecy quote
00:22:53.30\00:22:55.17
and then they'll
have prayer together
00:22:55.20\00:22:56.71
and that was it.
00:22:56.74\00:22:58.07
We knew the
students well enough to say,
00:22:58.11\00:22:59.91
"We can't ask kids to volunteer
00:22:59.94\00:23:01.74
to be Leaders of
a spiritual entity"
00:23:01.78\00:23:04.21
so we picked the Leaders
00:23:04.25\00:23:06.21
and so when the kids
came back, we announced it
00:23:06.25\00:23:09.58
and they didn't like the idea
00:23:09.62\00:23:11.39
that some of them
were chosen as Leaders
00:23:11.42\00:23:13.82
and they would have to
have this Reading in their room
00:23:13.86\00:23:16.59
and prayer and all of that,
00:23:16.62\00:23:17.96
they were not
happy about it at all
00:23:17.99\00:23:19.49
but that's what was
planned... so they did it
00:23:19.53\00:23:23.67
not with happiness or anything
00:23:23.70\00:23:26.90
but they did it,
00:23:26.94\00:23:28.27
and so... the time came,
00:23:28.30\00:23:30.27
the girls and
guys were separated,
00:23:30.31\00:23:32.64
most of the week
00:23:32.67\00:23:34.54
and they would have
to meet in their rooms
00:23:34.58\00:23:36.75
we didn't hear any good
feedback during the week,
00:23:36.78\00:23:39.21
it was just like,
"Well, we got seven days,
00:23:39.25\00:23:41.75
it will be over and
we'll try the usual back again
00:23:41.78\00:23:44.59
the next time we do it
00:23:44.62\00:23:45.95
and so when the
Week of Prayer ended,
00:23:45.99\00:23:49.82
we had a Communion,
00:23:49.86\00:23:51.19
we still kept the
girls and guys separate,
00:23:51.23\00:23:53.36
you know, even for Communion
00:23:53.40\00:23:55.26
because we don't want that
to be any part of the mixture
00:23:55.30\00:23:59.13
you know, and so,
00:23:59.17\00:24:01.47
one Friday night
after this had ended
00:24:01.50\00:24:05.41
I was walking back as
I did for six years...
00:24:05.44\00:24:08.54
seven years... while
there... back to my house
00:24:08.58\00:24:11.65
and I've always
passed the boy's dorm
00:24:11.68\00:24:13.65
and this one time I passed by
00:24:13.68\00:24:16.28
and I heard...
upstairs in the chapel,
00:24:16.32\00:24:20.26
the boys singing
hymns, it was so shocking,
00:24:20.32\00:24:25.56
I walked there
six or seven years...
00:24:25.59\00:24:27.33
so I heard many Friday nights...
00:24:27.36\00:24:28.96
nothing like that, so
I said, "I got to go in"
00:24:29.00\00:24:30.97
so I went in, went upstairs
00:24:31.00\00:24:32.40
and there were about 50
guys with regular hymnals
00:24:32.43\00:24:36.10
singing hymns,
there was no adult there.
00:24:36.14\00:24:38.34
Jason: Wow! Pr.
Hill: I was shocked!
00:24:38.37\00:24:40.18
Jason: Wow!
00:24:40.21\00:24:41.54
And I said, "Why
are you all doing this?"
00:24:41.58\00:24:43.31
"Well, we just want
to be closer to the Lord,
00:24:43.35\00:24:45.68
we just felt that we
should sing some hymns together"
00:24:45.71\00:24:48.95
but they were also
meeting in their rooms
00:24:48.98\00:24:51.15
reading their Bibles and
some Spirit of Prophecy...
00:24:51.19\00:24:54.56
So, that Prayer Meeting...
when you added extra prayer...
00:24:54.59\00:24:59.73
when they were able
to commune with God,
00:24:59.79\00:25:01.46
the Holy Spirit worked on them,
00:25:01.50\00:25:03.03
and it just carried on
into everyday thing for them.
00:25:03.06\00:25:08.77
And they have
something to do that wasn't...
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.77
even though they
didn't do it well,
00:25:11.81\00:25:13.58
they don't want to do
it, they had something to do
00:25:13.64\00:25:16.18
rather than just
sit in the audience.
00:25:16.21\00:25:17.78
That was most of the School
00:25:17.81\00:25:19.15
and it was such an
amazing thing that happened,
00:25:19.18\00:25:22.25
I was thankful to God,
00:25:22.28\00:25:23.95
He let me stay
there for seven years,
00:25:23.99\00:25:25.72
so I could actually see Him move
on people who are put to work.
00:25:25.75\00:25:31.36
Hmmm... and what
you said was key,
00:25:31.39\00:25:34.53
that... "being put to work"
00:25:34.56\00:25:36.03
because if people
aren't getting involved,
00:25:36.06\00:25:39.87
that they're not
being a part of the Service
00:25:39.93\00:25:43.71
or if they don't feel like
00:25:43.74\00:25:45.44
they're a part
of the congregation
00:25:45.47\00:25:47.98
and able to get
out and do some work,
00:25:48.04\00:25:50.45
then, sometimes they feel
like it doesn't apply to them
00:25:50.48\00:25:54.95
especially as a young person
00:25:54.98\00:25:57.29
they feel like
the Pastor might be
00:25:57.32\00:25:59.82
talking to their grandparent.
00:25:59.85\00:26:02.16
In the short time
that we have left,
00:26:02.19\00:26:06.46
what would you
say to a church leader
00:26:06.49\00:26:09.73
or to members
in the congregation
00:26:09.76\00:26:12.97
about overcoming sin?
00:26:13.03\00:26:17.67
I would say that...
00:26:17.71\00:26:21.38
one of the important things...
00:26:21.44\00:26:23.95
while I was at the
Academy, I heard many times,
00:26:23.98\00:26:26.68
"I got baptized
too early and therefore
00:26:26.72\00:26:29.62
I shouldn't have done it"
00:26:29.65\00:26:31.02
my concept is that
00:26:31.05\00:26:33.09
you probably didn't
get baptized too early...
00:26:33.15\00:26:36.66
you probably didn't realize
that after you got baptized,
00:26:36.69\00:26:41.06
you needed to become a
student of the Bible...
00:26:41.10\00:26:43.73
reading it, studying
it on a regular basis
00:26:43.77\00:26:47.04
and I believe that
anyone that wants to move
00:26:47.07\00:26:50.31
into an Army position,
00:26:50.34\00:26:51.77
has to equip himself
with Biblical information
00:26:51.84\00:26:56.64
for his personal life
and also to share with others
00:26:56.68\00:26:59.48
and any church with people
00:26:59.51\00:27:01.65
who don't know how
to study the Bible,
00:27:01.68\00:27:04.52
is not going to really
be able to challenge people
00:27:04.55\00:27:09.09
to be in the Lord's army,
00:27:09.12\00:27:10.79
and so any time you find young
people that are into the Bible,
00:27:10.83\00:27:15.43
you're going to
find young people
00:27:15.46\00:27:17.43
that are into Christ
and into working for Him
00:27:17.47\00:27:21.20
as they would
in the army of God.
00:27:21.24\00:27:23.97
Hmmm... that's amazing
and it's not a hospital...
00:27:24.01\00:27:27.51
Jason: It's an army...
Pr. Hill: It's an army.
00:27:27.58\00:27:31.01
I love that... I can't believe
our time is just about up,
00:27:31.05\00:27:34.65
this was so power-packed
00:27:34.68\00:27:36.99
and people
definitely need to e- mail you
00:27:37.02\00:27:39.39
and get in touch
with you for this booklet.
00:27:39.42\00:27:41.46
Thank you so much
for joining us today.
00:27:41.49\00:27:43.93
It was a joy being here.
00:27:43.96\00:27:45.39
Oh, wonderful, I've definitely
been provided with a...
00:27:45.46\00:27:48.60
a whole new way of
looking at this issue
00:27:48.63\00:27:51.17
and I hope that you have as well
00:27:51.20\00:27:53.13
and received a
new perspective today.
00:27:53.17\00:27:55.24
Well, we've reached
the end of another Program,
00:27:55.27\00:27:57.67
thanks for joining us,
00:27:57.71\00:27:59.04
join us next
time and remember...
00:27:59.07\00:28:00.81
it just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:28:00.84\00:28:03.24