The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Once gay... always gay?
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Stay tuned to meet some
folks who don't see it that way.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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Our guests today
are members of the
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'Coming Out' Ministries Team.
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Jason and I had a
chance to talk with them
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when they came here to host
a season's worth of programming
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on Pure Choices which is
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Dare to Dream's
program on sexual purity.
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Take a look.
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I am so happy to be sitting here
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with the 'Coming
Out' Ministries Team
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on the set of Pure
Choices because they just did a
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whole series of programs for you
to enjoy... with Jason, yea...
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and we are going to be talking
to this wonderful team today
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because what they bring
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is something so unique
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and so God-inspired
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that I know that
you're going to be blessed
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so, let's just kind
of go down the line...
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I'm going to
start with Danielle,
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we're going to go down the line
and find out who you are and...
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just... before we go
into your testimonies,
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just give us your
name and where you're from.
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Sure, I'm Danielle Harrison and
I'm currently living in Georgia.
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Yvonne: Okay.
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And I'm Ron Woolsey and
I'm pastoring in Arkansas.
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Yvonne: Great.
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I'm Wayne Blakely and I
live in Vancouver, Washington.
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Yvonne: Great.
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Michael Carducci and
I'm from East Tennessee.
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Yea, you know,
when I first met...
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I first met
Wayne and Mike, right?
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Was it Wayne and Mike and
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you had a couple more
people on your team at the time.
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Mike: Ron was with us.
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But I wasn't... Ron wasn't
with you... the day I met you,
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I don't think... at ASI?
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He might have been on the team
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but I don't think he was
there the day that I met you.
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Ron: I wasn't at the Booth...
Mike: He wasn't that far back...
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I'm going all the way
back and I got to talk to you
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about what you were
doing and I felt like...
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this is a "God thing... "
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this is
counteracting the counterfeit
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because your
ministry is a ministry to...
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people who were living
the homosexual lifestyle
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and so... I'd like to
just kind of go down the line
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and find out a bit
about your testimony...
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how you got to where
you are now... in Jesus
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so let's start
with you Danielle.
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Sure, well, when I came into the
family environment in my home,
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my parents were
really in Development
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in a neighboring town and
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it was there that I met a
girl who lived down the street
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and she was actually
being sexually abused
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by someone else in her life
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and so she was
learning things about her body
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that she shouldn't have known
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and she started
trying those things with me.
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So, I was probably
about seven or eight
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when I started interacting
with this same sex, actually,
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and so, of course, this opened
up the door for other addictions
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and other sexual
sins down the road.
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Masturbation soon
became an addiction for me
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at that tender
young age and I came out
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as bisexual... in...
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well, I guess it was about
15-years old in high school
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and I remember my
dad sitting me down
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and telling me that it
was okay for me to be who I am
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and he would still love me
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and he didn't say,
"It's okay if you're gay... "
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but we basically both knew
that's what he was talking about
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so my life took on a whole
new level of freedom after that
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and I was about 16 when
that conversation happened.
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Where were you
spiritually during this time?
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I had been exposed to
Christianity... growing up...
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baptized at the age of 9
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but it wasn't really
a converted experience,
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it was just... "this is what
you do when you love Jesus. "
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It was at a local Baptist Church
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that I'd gone to, off
and on with a family friend
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and a few years before
that conversation happened,
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we had moved in next
door to an Adventist family...
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a Christian family,
and my sister had...
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probably around that
time was being baptized
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into the Adventist church
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when I was positioning myself
to walk out into the world...
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and I think that my
identity and my sexual identity
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had a lot to do with that.
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So, I wandered in the
wilderness for a few years
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and I realized that that wasn't
what I had hoped it to be.
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I ended up in a pretty dark
and scary place at the end of it
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and the Lord... He
helped me to see my need.
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How did you find Him?
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Well, that sister who
had become an Adventist...
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she went out to an
Adventist Health Institution
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with her husband so that
he could do an internship
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on the farm out
there for the summer
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and they invited
me to go with them
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and I just expected to
be there for six months
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to work on the
farm for a little while
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but the Lord really met me there
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and at this point I had
walked away from that dark place
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and was searching spiritually
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and I really met
Jesus Christ there
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I really started to
develop a relationship with Him
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and understand who He was.
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And I was baptized
in September of 2012
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and it was after that
that the Lord just started
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opening up doors for
me to share my testimony
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in different
churches and different venues
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and while
'Coming Out' Ministries
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was basically being formed,
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that's when I was turning away
from the world and all of that
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so it was 2014 in May that I
started working with the guys
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so I'm a new
addition to the team.
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You're the baby of the team.
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Danielle: Yes,
on multiple levels.
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Yeah, yeah, right, right...
that's great, thank you.
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So, what was it like...
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what was it like... experiencing
it from the church side?
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Were people
nurturing... did they accept you
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or did they... were
they criticizing you
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or how was that?
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As far as... where
I was in my journey
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like... as I was
coming into the church?
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Jason: As you were
coming into the church.
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You know, the
place that I went was
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just what God knew that I needed
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and when I went there,
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nobody knew about
my sexual preference,
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they knew that I was
in a pretty abstract place
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in my spiritual understanding
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and I remember expecting them
to start treating me differently
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once they learned
that I wasn't a Christian.
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I remember the morning I
was sitting with the doctor
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and his family in
their home having breakfast
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and he asked me if I was a
Christian and what I believed
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and I thought,
"Oh, here we go... "
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they've all been
really nice so far
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but this is going
to be the end of that
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but it wasn't...
that's not what happened
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they nurtured me even more,
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they just scooped
me in under their wing
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and they met me where I
was at, even in the mess,
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they were willing to
wade through the mess with me
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and relate to
me where they could
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and walk with me through it
and God knew that I needed that
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especially, because I
had seen a lot of hypocrisy
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in the realm of
Christianity when I was younger
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and that was a
lot of the reason why
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I didn't want
anything to do with the church.
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And that's a blessing, I
think that a lot of times
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the common misconception is that
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as Christians we don't
condone homosexuality...
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we don't condone that
behavior because it's not...
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in the Bible...
God doesn't condone it
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but I think that
it's viewed by the world
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that we are against the people,
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it's not the
person... it's the sin...
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so we love the
person and the people...
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but we hate the
sin... as God would say
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it's just like a heterosexual
person being promiscuous
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or if you had a kid that steals
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or is a murderer
or something like that
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like you love
your son or daughter
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but you don't like or
condone what they're doing.
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Danielle: Amen.
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But it's interesting that
the Christian church, I think,
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as a whole... has
given that representation
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of this "hate" thing.
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You know, I learned
that one negative comment
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can destroy ten good comments
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and so the voice that we heard
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as we were walking
in the gay culture was
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that, you know,
Christianity hated queers,
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you know... and that
was the message we got
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in and out of the
church at the time.
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So, I think the Christian church
has some responsibility to take
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for the message that
they've been receiving.
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Even the terminology "queers"
like, it made me kind of
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cringe a bit because now
it's part of the LGBT cue...
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categorization and that...
to even introduce that word,
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is like... it's not a
pejorative anymore, is it?
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I thought that was weird too
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because it has always been
considered a derogatory term.
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Yvonne: Yeah, yeah.
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Jason: But I guess
it's like the "N" word...
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and recognizing it
can... and stuff like that.
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Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
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Ron, tell us a little
bit about your journey.
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Well, I grew up in a
very spiritual environment
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and I was a
spiritual young person,
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I grew up though with
a very deep dark secret
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of having been molested
when I was four-years old
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and that left me very confused
throughout my life... growing up
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but I wanted to be a Christian
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and I didn't know
anyone else who had
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the same struggle that I did
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and the same-sex
attractions and all of that,
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so I masked it,
I think, very well,
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no one ever knew
I'd been molested
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and I was repeatedly
violated in grade school
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because once, I think, a victim,
it's easy to be victimized again
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it's hard to say, "No,"
you don't know what to do
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and so you just kind
of freeze and just endure
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but I chose to go
to Christian schools
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and to be a student missionary,
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I chose to marry thinking
that that would be the solution
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to all of my sexual confusion
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and I strongly
encourage people today...
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young people today...
don't be deceived into thinking
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that marriage is the
solution to anything.
00:10:48.21\00:10:50.78
It can be the beginning of woes
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if you're not
married to the right person
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for the right reason
and with God's blessing
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but I did marry a
lovely, Christian lady...
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I wanted to have a Christian
home and a Christian family
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and we had a couple
of children together
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but my confusion
just was intensified
00:11:07.60\00:11:10.37
and so, I ended up
wrecking up my marriage
00:11:10.43\00:11:14.70
and fell
headlong into the gay life
00:11:14.74\00:11:18.34
but what is so
startling to many people
00:11:18.37\00:11:21.98
is that I trained to be a...
00:11:22.01\00:11:24.45
I was studying to
be a medical missionary
00:11:24.48\00:11:27.82
so I had a degree in Theology
and graduated with honors
00:11:27.85\00:11:32.05
and so that's why so
many people were shocked
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when I went into the gay life
rather than going into ministry
00:11:35.29\00:11:38.56
or going on with
my medical training
00:11:38.59\00:11:40.76
so I lived many
years in the gay life...
00:11:40.80\00:11:43.60
You went back to
school... for Theology
00:11:43.63\00:11:46.37
after the
marriage was dissolved?
00:11:46.40\00:11:48.77
No, I had the degree in
Theology while I was married
00:11:48.80\00:11:52.57
and... but when I
was called into ministry
00:11:52.61\00:11:57.48
it kind of startled me because
I didn't feel worthy of it
00:11:57.51\00:12:00.85
because of my mental struggle
00:12:00.92\00:12:02.42
so I wouldn't
accept a call into ministry
00:12:02.45\00:12:05.25
and then I ended up
just breaking up the marriage
00:12:05.29\00:12:08.29
and going into the gay life.
00:12:08.36\00:12:10.33
So I lost my
family in my youth...
00:12:10.36\00:12:12.86
and spent many years in
the gay life... blaming God
00:12:12.89\00:12:17.07
because even counselors advised
00:12:17.13\00:12:21.44
that I was someone
who could not be changed
00:12:21.50\00:12:24.27
and these were
primarily Christian counselors
00:12:24.31\00:12:27.04
and even pastors
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so I went into the world very
bitter and angry against God
00:12:28.44\00:12:31.91
and yet I was also quite
frustrated with this concept
00:12:31.95\00:12:35.72
that God was impotent
00:12:35.75\00:12:37.35
that He could not
change or save someone like me
00:12:37.39\00:12:40.86
because I knew
that He was omnipotent
00:12:40.92\00:12:44.19
but yet this concept
made Him appear impotent.
00:12:44.23\00:12:48.90
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.30
So eventually, with
this great frustration,
00:12:50.33\00:12:53.30
I turned to the Word of God.
00:12:53.37\00:12:54.70
I wanted to find
answers... not for professors
00:12:54.74\00:12:57.77
but for myself...
for my own salvation
00:12:57.81\00:13:00.98
and it's just really
fascinating to me now
00:13:01.01\00:13:04.15
to realize that
everything I needed
00:13:04.18\00:13:06.75
was right there all the time,
00:13:06.82\00:13:08.15
it's right there
in the Word of God,
00:13:08.18\00:13:09.52
I found every answer
to all of my gay questions
00:13:09.55\00:13:13.36
in the Word of God
00:13:13.46\00:13:14.79
to the point that I
could turn and walk away.
00:13:14.82\00:13:17.66
That is... the fact
that you can even say that,
00:13:17.69\00:13:20.53
that you could
turn and walk away...
00:13:20.60\00:13:22.36
in a prevailing ideology
now that you're "born this way,"
00:13:22.40\00:13:28.64
this is who you are,
accept it, embrace it,
00:13:28.67\00:13:32.61
share it, promote
it, I mean, really...
00:13:32.64\00:13:36.54
it's... this whole concept
of, "you could walk away"
00:13:36.58\00:13:41.48
all of you... could walk away...
00:13:41.52\00:13:43.49
is so unheard of and I want to
explore some more of that later
00:13:43.55\00:13:48.06
but that... to me... that is...
00:13:48.09\00:13:50.49
it goes against...
you're going against the tide.
00:13:50.53\00:13:53.86
Yeah, everything that's...
00:13:53.90\00:13:55.20
that the
Community has been saying...
00:13:55.23\00:13:58.23
you just
erased... eradicated that.
00:13:58.27\00:14:01.44
Well, I could have invented
those arguments, I mean,
00:14:01.47\00:14:03.74
those were all
arguments that I made,
00:14:03.81\00:14:05.41
every argument
that you hear today,
00:14:05.44\00:14:07.08
were arguments that
I made... I defended...
00:14:07.11\00:14:10.95
I was not convinced myself
00:14:10.98\00:14:13.08
but I could
convince other people.
00:14:13.15\00:14:15.22
But in turning and walking
away, I need to make it clear
00:14:15.25\00:14:18.12
that does not mean
"without temptation"
00:14:18.15\00:14:20.16
because when I walked
away, it was a fierce struggle
00:14:20.19\00:14:23.66
but I learned to love
Jesus more than my partner.
00:14:23.73\00:14:26.90
I was in love with
two men, there for a while
00:14:26.93\00:14:30.03
that as I beheld
Jesus, I became...
00:14:30.07\00:14:32.10
I realized that I loved Jesus
more and I had to make a choice.
00:14:32.13\00:14:35.64
So, yes, I struggled with
great temptation after that
00:14:35.67\00:14:39.71
but as I continued
to walk towards the Lord
00:14:39.74\00:14:44.68
and away from the old life,
I was surprised at how quickly
00:14:44.71\00:14:48.68
my new life took
hold... within one year
00:14:48.72\00:14:52.85
I was married again to
a lovely Christian woman
00:14:52.89\00:14:57.39
and we now have
two more children,
00:14:57.43\00:15:00.33
the very night I was baptized,
I was invited into ministry...
00:15:00.36\00:15:04.43
well, I was invited to
preach the next Sabbath
00:15:04.47\00:15:07.84
and that was 24 years ago
00:15:07.87\00:15:10.31
and I've been in the pulpit ever
since the night I was baptized
00:15:10.34\00:15:13.68
and I now pastor
two churches in Arkansas
00:15:13.71\00:15:17.65
when I'm not on the road
with 'Coming Out' Ministries
00:15:17.68\00:15:21.28
or doing my concert
ministry and what I had read...
00:15:21.32\00:15:24.89
one of the
things that I had read
00:15:24.92\00:15:26.45
that really
helped change my life
00:15:26.52\00:15:27.96
was to the effect that there's
nothing that God expects of us,
00:15:27.99\00:15:31.59
it is not for our
own fulfillment and joy
00:15:31.63\00:15:34.60
and that His plan for our lives
00:15:34.63\00:15:37.77
far exceeds anything we
could even imagine for ourselves
00:15:37.80\00:15:41.04
and that's my testimony today
00:15:41.07\00:15:43.41
that my life today
does far exceed anything
00:15:43.47\00:15:46.64
that I ever
experienced in the gay life
00:15:46.74\00:15:49.81
and I think I can
speak for all of us,
00:15:49.88\00:15:52.91
we've been on both sides
and we're staying on this side
00:15:52.95\00:15:56.48
because we know...
we see this side...
00:15:56.52\00:15:59.29
God's side is so much
better than anything that we...
00:15:59.32\00:16:03.96
that we were
addicted to in the world.
00:16:03.99\00:16:08.00
So, when you... when
you were in that state of
00:16:08.03\00:16:13.64
embracing "who you
were" and actually just...
00:16:13.67\00:16:19.17
just into that whole lifestyle,
was there happiness there?
00:16:19.21\00:16:25.18
Was there fulfillment there?
What was the prevailing feeling
00:16:25.21\00:16:31.15
that you had when
you were embracing it?
00:16:31.19\00:16:34.52
When you were living...
00:16:34.56\00:16:35.96
when you were
full blown out there?
00:16:35.99\00:16:37.63
Well, there's a lot of
fun, there's a lot of excitement
00:16:37.66\00:16:41.03
and I filled my life with
everything that I could think of
00:16:41.06\00:16:46.13
in entertainment, in sports,
hand-gliding, roller-blading,
00:16:46.17\00:16:51.17
biking, going to
the beach, snow skiing,
00:16:51.21\00:16:53.74
I kept my life very, very busy
00:16:53.78\00:16:55.78
but in between
some of those times,
00:16:55.81\00:16:59.55
there was great loneliness,
heartache, heart break,
00:16:59.61\00:17:01.78
depression and all of that
00:17:01.82\00:17:04.65
but the focus of that
kind of life, in my experience,
00:17:04.69\00:17:09.06
was self... self-gratification
00:17:09.09\00:17:12.19
and I filled my life
with things that pleased me
00:17:12.23\00:17:16.60
and that's empty...
that is not fulfilling
00:17:16.67\00:17:19.77
so I had fun and
excitement and happiness
00:17:19.80\00:17:22.87
but I did not have lasting
joy and peace and assurance
00:17:22.94\00:17:27.28
which I now have.
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:27.31\00:17:30.35
Amen... Amen.
00:17:30.38\00:17:32.08
What would you say was so
binding about the lifestyle,
00:17:32.11\00:17:34.72
like, what is it that
causes a lot of people to
00:17:34.75\00:17:38.29
stay and stick
with that lifestyle?
00:17:38.32\00:17:40.76
It's addiction... it is
absolutely an addiction.
00:17:40.79\00:17:44.53
That self-gratification,
the stimulus, the pleasure,
00:17:44.56\00:17:48.30
but... and I can say that
00:17:48.33\00:17:50.93
very dogmatically
if I can use that term,
00:17:50.97\00:17:54.70
because the Bible talks
about the bondage of sin.
00:17:54.74\00:17:59.17
Sin is addictive and
today... homosexual behavior
00:17:59.21\00:18:03.71
is being referred
to... in many circles as...
00:18:03.78\00:18:07.65
"the
experimental drug of this age"
00:18:07.68\00:18:10.82
and people... because
it's being so celebrated
00:18:10.85\00:18:14.59
and promoted,
00:18:14.62\00:18:16.42
people are actually
experimenting with it
00:18:16.49\00:18:19.49
having no idea how
addictive it can be.
00:18:19.53\00:18:22.46
Hmmm... would you
all say the same thing
00:18:22.50\00:18:25.47
that that's what kept
you in that lifestyle?
00:18:25.50\00:18:28.47
My first reaction
was... feelings...
00:18:28.50\00:18:31.17
the whole Movement for
me was based on feelings
00:18:31.21\00:18:34.68
and I've been repressed for
so long that all of a sudden,
00:18:34.71\00:18:38.08
now I can express my feelings
00:18:38.11\00:18:40.02
and that was part of the
addictive drive... was...
00:18:40.05\00:18:42.98
it was all driven by
feelings and that was...
00:18:43.05\00:18:45.45
made it even harder
coming out on the other side
00:18:45.49\00:18:47.89
is recognizing
truth versus feelings.
00:18:47.92\00:18:50.13
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:18:50.16\00:18:51.49
Ron: That's a good point.
00:18:51.53\00:18:52.96
Well, I'll tell you that
when people think of addiction
00:18:53.03\00:18:56.26
they think, "Oh, so they were
just a bunch of sex maniacs"
00:18:56.30\00:19:00.40
the addiction isn't just...
it isn't just of a sexual nature
00:19:00.47\00:19:04.44
it is because you
suffered greatly in your life...
00:19:04.47\00:19:07.88
from... like being
bullied or harassed
00:19:07.91\00:19:11.38
or having great depression
00:19:11.41\00:19:13.05
and now you're
addicted to excitement...
00:19:13.11\00:19:16.48
is really what it is
and I would steer clear
00:19:16.52\00:19:19.89
today from using
the term, "Lifestyle"
00:19:19.95\00:19:23.76
because many gays are
taking offense to that today
00:19:23.79\00:19:27.60
because we're lumping them
all into the same activities.
00:19:27.66\00:19:30.30
Not everybody participates
in the same activities
00:19:30.37\00:19:33.64
as I did... when I was
living in the gay culture
00:19:33.67\00:19:36.81
and I would like to
try to shift people today
00:19:36.91\00:19:39.67
in helping them
realize it is a culture,
00:19:39.71\00:19:42.44
just like heterosexuality
would be considered...
00:19:42.48\00:19:44.41
a culture of
heterosexuals rather than...
00:19:44.45\00:19:46.58
we don't call it a
heterosexual lifestyle
00:19:46.65\00:19:48.75
and so gays are
taking great offense
00:19:48.78\00:19:51.65
to the term, "Lifestyle" today
00:19:51.69\00:19:53.96
sometimes shifting...
if you talk about culture,
00:19:53.99\00:19:56.83
it's more inclusive
of all kinds of people
00:19:56.86\00:19:59.06
with all kinds of feelings and
things that they participate in.
00:19:59.09\00:20:03.06
But there is nothing
actually in the gay culture
00:20:03.10\00:20:07.60
that is appropriate from the
standpoint of a Biblical nature.
00:20:07.64\00:20:14.31
What was your journey like?
00:20:14.38\00:20:16.08
Well, you know,
brokenness comes in
00:20:16.11\00:20:18.21
all kinds of
different shapes and sizes
00:20:18.25\00:20:20.28
and so, for the Viewer,
00:20:20.38\00:20:21.95
I would like
Viewers to think about
00:20:21.98\00:20:24.15
what your own
brokenness might be
00:20:24.19\00:20:26.29
and everyone is
looking for a pat answer
00:20:26.32\00:20:29.82
for what causes homosexuality
00:20:29.86\00:20:31.76
so this is just our
stories that we're sharing
00:20:31.79\00:20:34.46
and we realize that
homosexuality comes from
00:20:34.46\00:20:37.10
many different
kinds of scenarios
00:20:37.13\00:20:40.80
and situations in your life,
00:20:40.87\00:20:42.44
mine was such that my
birth mother was expecting
00:20:42.47\00:20:46.27
and only desiring
to have a baby girl,
00:20:46.31\00:20:49.38
she didn't want a boy
under any circumstances
00:20:49.41\00:20:52.38
and so, when I was
born, she was angry
00:20:52.41\00:20:55.18
before I was two-years old,
00:20:55.22\00:20:56.55
she had broken my arm
in two different places
00:20:56.62\00:20:58.49
on two different occasions
00:20:58.52\00:20:59.85
and so, I was
adopted by a Christian family
00:20:59.89\00:21:03.09
and was raised in a Christian
home of which I believe today
00:21:03.12\00:21:06.26
that God took me and
placed me in that environment
00:21:06.29\00:21:09.23
and prepared me for
what He has me doing today.
00:21:09.30\00:21:12.23
The journey wasn't something,
00:21:12.27\00:21:14.54
the fallen
nature isn't something
00:21:14.57\00:21:17.11
that God desired for everyone
00:21:17.17\00:21:18.74
but He knew that each
of us would have a story,
00:21:18.77\00:21:21.34
He knew that it was an
environment he could put me in
00:21:21.38\00:21:24.01
and that... as Deuteronomy says
00:21:24.05\00:21:26.38
that if you're raised in
the way that you should go,
00:21:26.41\00:21:29.28
that one day, you would return
00:21:29.32\00:21:30.95
and so, He knew
that that would happen.
00:21:30.99\00:21:33.05
I endured and suffered
harassment and bullying
00:21:33.09\00:21:37.49
because I was effeminate,
00:21:37.53\00:21:38.93
I wanted to be the
girl that my mother...
00:21:38.96\00:21:40.76
my birth mother wanted me to be
00:21:40.80\00:21:42.33
that would get me
love and acceptance.
00:21:42.36\00:21:44.13
My new parents didn't
understand what was going on
00:21:44.20\00:21:47.47
I was running
around the house screaming,
00:21:47.50\00:21:49.64
"I don't want to be a
boy, I want to be a girl"
00:21:49.67\00:21:51.74
and so I suffered greatly
00:21:51.77\00:21:54.94
all the way through school,
00:21:54.98\00:21:58.08
I thought... if I can get
through 12 years of school
00:21:58.11\00:22:00.45
I'll never step foot
inside another classroom,
00:22:00.52\00:22:02.75
because of the
harassment and the hurt
00:22:02.78\00:22:05.32
that I was
dealing with in my life,
00:22:05.35\00:22:07.59
at the age of 18, I was
working at Loma Linda University
00:22:07.66\00:22:15.16
and I ended up meeting a guy
there who was in the gay culture
00:22:15.20\00:22:19.47
who said to me, "You're gay!"
00:22:19.50\00:22:22.27
And I didn't even know
what he was talking about
00:22:22.30\00:22:25.44
but he sensed... he
could tell from mannerisms
00:22:25.47\00:22:28.58
or from commonalities that...
00:22:28.61\00:22:31.05
he could tell me
that face to face...
00:22:31.08\00:22:32.71
So prior to
that, you had never had
00:22:32.75\00:22:35.48
a same-sex
relationship... prior to that?
00:22:35.52\00:22:38.32
I would say that in growing
up that there were some detours
00:22:38.35\00:22:43.16
in
experimentation and exploration
00:22:43.19\00:22:46.13
and also, what might
be even considered abuse
00:22:46.16\00:22:49.86
as I had heterosexual
boys who were introducing me
00:22:49.90\00:22:54.40
into what
masturbation was all about
00:22:54.47\00:22:56.87
and it was actually at
that point that I thought,
00:22:56.94\00:22:58.87
"Okay, well I'm normal" because
they were engaging with me
00:22:58.91\00:23:01.61
and I was drawn towards men
00:23:01.64\00:23:03.75
but they didn't stay in
that behavior very long,
00:23:03.78\00:23:06.41
they headed off and headed for
for girlfriends and everything
00:23:06.45\00:23:10.42
and I thought,
"What's wrong with me?
00:23:10.49\00:23:11.82
It's not happening, God...
I didn't ask to be this way. "
00:23:11.85\00:23:14.99
And so, here's someone telling
me, "Well... well you're gay"
00:23:15.02\00:23:18.26
and then a couple of
minutes later he says to me,
00:23:18.29\00:23:22.20
"Wayne, Christianity
breeds homosexuality"
00:23:22.23\00:23:26.03
and I said, "Wait a minute,
what are you talking about?"
00:23:26.07\00:23:30.37
"Well," he said,
"you're gay, I'm gay,
00:23:30.47\00:23:32.71
I go to school with other
guys in college that are gay,"
00:23:32.74\00:23:36.14
he said, "You know, the
church has done a great job
00:23:36.18\00:23:38.51
of telling us that homosexual
behavior is sinful... "
00:23:38.55\00:23:41.05
and then they stop
and then they say nothing,
00:23:41.08\00:23:43.95
they say, nothing
about how God can change that
00:23:43.99\00:23:46.82
what's redemptive,
how do we please God,
00:23:46.86\00:23:49.92
nobody did anything
and I think it's because,
00:23:49.99\00:23:53.26
that today, we're
still suffering in this idea
00:23:53.29\00:23:56.50
that the church is still in this
present state of looking at us
00:23:56.60\00:23:59.70
like, "Oh, you guys are...
you guys are the queer ones
00:23:59.73\00:24:02.07
you know... the weird ones,"
00:24:02.10\00:24:03.44
when they're not
looking and saying that,
00:24:03.51\00:24:05.64
yeah, they have things
that they whitewash, like gossip
00:24:05.67\00:24:09.11
and pride and a
whole list of other things
00:24:09.14\00:24:12.51
that are in 1st
Corinthians 6:9 through 11,
00:24:12.58\00:24:15.85
where it talks about, who
will not enter into heaven
00:24:15.88\00:24:18.25
but a lot of those
things we've already whitewashed
00:24:18.29\00:24:20.56
we're trying to do the same
thing today with homosexuality
00:24:20.66\00:24:24.43
by setting it aside and
saying, "You can maintain
00:24:24.46\00:24:27.76
your gay identity even
after you're converted"
00:24:27.76\00:24:30.23
and I note that we're
probably going to talk
00:24:30.27\00:24:32.67
a little bit
about that but for me,
00:24:32.70\00:24:34.57
I then said, "You know
what? I think you're right. "
00:24:34.60\00:24:37.47
And I said, "Okay, God, I
can't do anything about this"
00:24:37.51\00:24:40.24
I said to my parents,
"I'm sorry, this is who I am"
00:24:40.28\00:24:43.01
and they said, "Wayne, we
don't know the causes for this,
00:24:43.04\00:24:45.18
but we love you
and God loves you
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.48
and you'll always be welcome
at home... always know that. "
00:24:47.52\00:24:52.25
and so for the next 40
years... I would live a life
00:24:52.29\00:24:55.79
that was totally
absorbed in the gay culture,
00:24:55.82\00:24:58.29
nothing stopped
me, drugs, promiscuity,
00:24:58.33\00:25:02.00
I lived in 12 years
of male prostitution
00:25:02.03\00:25:05.63
I was looking for somebody
who could affirm that I mattered
00:25:05.67\00:25:09.37
that I belonged
and that I was loved
00:25:09.40\00:25:11.17
and God let me go down that road
00:25:11.21\00:25:14.11
until... not the
church... but God came to me
00:25:14.18\00:25:18.58
one day, when I'm
sitting in my bedroom
00:25:18.61\00:25:21.12
and I'm thinking,
"Where does this end?
00:25:21.15\00:25:23.49
I know God's
Word, I know the Bible,
00:25:23.59\00:25:25.82
my destiny is going to end,
I'm only going to have one life
00:25:25.85\00:25:29.56
because I know this
isn't pleasing to God. "
00:25:29.59\00:25:32.09
To any gay person watching this
that claims to be Christian,
00:25:32.13\00:25:37.23
please go back, please
look at what pleases God,
00:25:37.27\00:25:42.94
because He loves you so much,
00:25:43.00\00:25:46.64
don't be deceived
like in the Garden of Eden
00:25:46.68\00:25:51.15
like Satan was able to do...
by dazzling all kinds of things
00:25:51.18\00:25:54.82
before us and
those things felt good,
00:25:54.85\00:25:57.25
eating the fruit was very tasty
00:25:57.29\00:25:59.29
and it brought on great
knowledge for... like 3 seconds
00:25:59.32\00:26:02.06
and then she was
miserable, right?
00:26:02.09\00:26:03.86
And so, don't come to
Judgment Day and say before God,
00:26:03.89\00:26:08.23
"Oh, well, I did
what I thought was best"
00:26:08.30\00:26:10.37
when you can find what
is best in the Word of God
00:26:10.40\00:26:13.13
and He can tell you
and you can believe it
00:26:13.17\00:26:15.77
and it seems
impossible to walk away
00:26:15.80\00:26:18.04
but He will not let
you down and so I sat there
00:26:18.07\00:26:22.58
and I thought,
"I don't know God,
00:26:22.61\00:26:24.98
I've accused God of being gay,
00:26:25.01\00:26:27.15
He made me gay but... "
00:26:27.22\00:26:28.55
see we blame all kinds of
things on God that God didn't do
00:26:28.58\00:26:30.99
it's because of
our fallen nature,
00:26:31.02\00:26:32.99
it is because of
the deception of Satan
00:26:33.02\00:26:35.76
that people
indulge in pornography,
00:26:35.79\00:26:38.09
indulging in
extra-marital affairs
00:26:38.13\00:26:40.30
and pre-marital
sex and homosexuality
00:26:40.33\00:26:42.43
and masturbation, I mean,
00:26:42.46\00:26:44.13
these are the things
that Satan does, not God.
00:26:44.17\00:26:47.20
Yeah, they come natural
to us because sin is natural
00:26:47.24\00:26:50.77
we're not doing what
God wants and God said,
00:26:50.81\00:26:53.54
"I'm right here,
I'm right here...
00:26:53.58\00:26:55.81
you're finally
starting to think about me,
00:26:55.84\00:26:57.78
I want a relationship with
you, I want to engage with you,
00:26:57.81\00:27:01.12
I want intimacy with you,
00:27:01.15\00:27:02.75
will you give me
your heart... your life?"
00:27:02.78\00:27:04.72
and I was like, "Oh...
oh... I wasn't expecting this
00:27:04.75\00:27:08.99
and I don't want to make
any major decisions right here,"
00:27:09.02\00:27:11.83
so I started immersing
myself into a church environment
00:27:11.89\00:27:14.63
for three months
before I went to the pastor
00:27:14.66\00:27:17.57
who was totally unprepared
for something like this,
00:27:17.60\00:27:20.44
and the church
is still unprepared,
00:27:20.47\00:27:22.40
they were like,
"Well... I wasn't expecting a
00:27:22.44\00:27:25.91
converted homosexual... I
didn't think that was possible"
00:27:25.94\00:27:28.28
you know, we were
like... limiting the Word of God
00:27:28.31\00:27:30.45
and they didn't
know what to tell me
00:27:30.48\00:27:32.61
and so, slam dunk, I
go... down into the water
00:27:32.65\00:27:35.78
and guess what, I
didn't come up straight,
00:27:35.82\00:27:38.89
you know, I still came up...
00:27:38.92\00:27:41.56
and I still had temptations
and attractions towards men
00:27:41.59\00:27:45.49
and I still do
today but God is like...
00:27:45.53\00:27:48.06
"Ah... I'm right here,
I'm right here, I got you"
00:27:48.10\00:27:50.67
and so, He says,
"all I want is your heart
00:27:50.73\00:27:53.30
if you give me your heart,
00:27:53.34\00:27:55.07
I'll walk with
you on this journey
00:27:55.10\00:27:57.07
you can always turn to me,
00:27:57.17\00:27:58.51
at times I'll
probably carry you, Wayne,
00:27:58.54\00:28:00.51
because you'll think
you're going to be alone
00:28:00.54\00:28:02.38
but I will never
leave you or forsake you
00:28:02.41\00:28:04.18
you can't see me... but
you can know that I'm there
00:28:04.21\00:28:07.75
and you can see me spiritually
and know that I am God
00:28:07.78\00:28:10.85
and that I will carry you
through... to the very end
00:28:10.92\00:28:13.92
and so, on my
parents' 67th anniversary,
00:28:13.99\00:28:18.09
I was baptized and I said,
00:28:18.13\00:28:20.36
"Yeah, I want
God's way and not mine. "
00:28:20.43\00:28:22.76
And so, sure, today,
yeah, there are struggles in it
00:28:22.80\00:28:26.67
there are people
inside churches today
00:28:26.74\00:28:29.07
they're just
waiting for you to fall
00:28:29.10\00:28:31.37
because they don't
think that it's possible
00:28:31.41\00:28:33.58
and they try to limit God
and I want to help them to see
00:28:33.61\00:28:38.45
that we can embrace
the gospel of Jesus Christ
00:28:38.48\00:28:40.95
and that we can take on a
new identity in Jesus Christ
00:28:40.98\00:28:44.42
not buried in my temptations
00:28:44.45\00:28:46.42
or anchored to my
temptations and bondage.
00:28:46.45\00:28:48.82
Amen, Wayne,
thank you, that's...
00:28:48.86\00:28:51.49
you guys are just...
it's so inspirational
00:28:51.53\00:28:54.60
because, you know,
there are a lot of things that
00:28:54.66\00:28:56.77
we don't know about...
00:28:56.83\00:29:00.20
we even need to know the right
nomenclature, like, you know,
00:29:00.27\00:29:03.94
we don't know that we
shouldn't say, "gay lifestyle"
00:29:03.97\00:29:06.34
and... versus
gay culture, I mean,
00:29:06.37\00:29:08.94
there are just some things...
so this is educational...
00:29:08.98\00:29:11.08
I mean... for us
and for the Viewers...
00:29:11.11\00:29:13.85
because there are a
lot of things we don't know
00:29:13.88\00:29:16.18
so you're helping us,
because we need to know
00:29:16.25\00:29:17.65
how to reach out to
our brothers and sisters
00:29:17.69\00:29:21.46
that are in that culture,
I almost said, "lifestyle. "
00:29:21.49\00:29:25.83
Wayne: I mean,
we slip, we do too.
00:29:25.86\00:29:27.36
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:27.40\00:29:29.13
Wayne: We have to think about it
00:29:29.16\00:29:30.80
from the perspective
of the gay person, yeah.
00:29:30.87\00:29:34.04
Yes, yes, Mike, tell
us about your journey.
00:29:34.07\00:29:37.51
So, really, I think it
began when I was forty,
00:29:37.54\00:29:40.78
when I came back to
the Lord and I said to God,
00:29:40.88\00:29:44.05
"I want to know how this
happened, I want to know... "
00:29:44.08\00:29:45.68
Came back? So you had been
with Him before and then you...
00:29:45.71\00:29:48.48
Mike: I was raised...
born and raised Catholic
00:29:48.52\00:29:50.89
and then I
converted at 15 to Adventism,
00:29:50.99\00:29:54.09
my first homosexual experience
was actually in Academy
00:29:54.16\00:29:57.43
with a roommate who'd
been to juvenile detention.
00:29:57.46\00:29:59.63
I wanted to follow God,
00:29:59.66\00:30:02.70
I thought that I
had an understanding
00:30:02.76\00:30:04.50
of who God was, but like Ron,
00:30:04.57\00:30:05.97
even with an
education in the Bible,
00:30:06.00\00:30:09.30
I still didn't know how to claim
the merits of a risen Savior.
00:30:09.34\00:30:11.71
I thought I had to be
good to deserve His goodness
00:30:11.74\00:30:14.28
so, I left the church at 20,
00:30:14.31\00:30:16.38
couldn't find a way to bring
00:30:16.41\00:30:18.41
my sexuality and my
spirituality together
00:30:18.45\00:30:20.92
so I walked out of
church and at 40 years old,
00:30:20.95\00:30:23.85
through divine intervention,
00:30:23.89\00:30:26.49
it wasn't the church that called
me up and came and got me,
00:30:26.52\00:30:29.46
it was my sisters'
intercessory prayer,
00:30:29.49\00:30:31.93
two of my
sisters... States apart
00:30:31.96\00:30:34.30
were praying together for their
brother who was completely off,
00:30:34.36\00:30:38.43
and so, at 40 years' old,
00:30:38.50\00:30:40.40
through some
divine circumstances
00:30:40.47\00:30:42.70
I got
baptized... with a boyfriend
00:30:42.74\00:30:44.91
and a sexual addiction
because the pastor didn't know
00:30:44.97\00:30:47.44
what I was struggling
with and I came into this
00:30:47.51\00:30:49.91
evangelistic
series on the last night,
00:30:49.98\00:30:51.68
gave my heart to the Lord
but I was a complete mess.
00:30:51.71\00:30:54.58
I didn't even know how to relate
to men in a non-sexual way
00:30:54.62\00:30:58.05
so, how could...
how could a Savior
00:30:58.12\00:31:00.76
that died for me...
not want me... sexually?
00:31:00.79\00:31:03.46
That's the thing that was
going on inside of my mind,
00:31:03.53\00:31:07.50
so, as I got baptized, the
Lord was moving and He knew
00:31:07.50\00:31:11.53
that I needed to
make a public expression
00:31:11.57\00:31:13.44
of my desire to know Him,
00:31:13.50\00:31:15.57
I didn't care about
the Adventist church
00:31:15.60\00:31:17.21
and to tell you the truth,
00:31:17.27\00:31:18.64
all I knew is that I
was following Jesus Christ
00:31:18.67\00:31:21.81
and Him alone and
I had faith like...
00:31:21.88\00:31:23.55
maybe a strand of
dental floss, that's all I had,
00:31:23.61\00:31:25.95
if somebody would
have gotten in my face
00:31:25.98\00:31:27.75
and said something
about my boyfriend,
00:31:27.78\00:31:29.48
I would have been gone,
and to tell you the truth,
00:31:29.52\00:31:32.09
I probably had a pretty
good chip on my shoulder
00:31:32.15\00:31:34.36
I was hoping
someone would say that
00:31:34.39\00:31:36.22
because then I
could blame God again,
00:31:36.26\00:31:38.39
"Well, see, you
messed up, not me"
00:31:38.43\00:31:40.56
and I couldn't help myself
00:31:40.60\00:31:41.90
but eventually,
because my sister loved me,
00:31:41.93\00:31:45.13
because she didn't
condemn me or my boyfriend,
00:31:45.17\00:31:48.20
she worked side by side with
me in my salon as my assistant,
00:31:48.24\00:31:51.81
I had a salon with my lover,
00:31:51.84\00:31:53.81
I had, you know, other
gay hairdressers in there,
00:31:53.84\00:31:56.61
and what was so amazing...
00:31:56.68\00:31:58.01
I thought she accepted my
gay lifestyle... my gay culture,
00:31:58.05\00:32:01.65
my gay identity,
00:32:01.68\00:32:03.02
so, she was
always kind to my lover,
00:32:03.05\00:32:05.12
she'd invite us
over for holiday meals,
00:32:05.15\00:32:07.26
she never withheld me from
00:32:07.29\00:32:08.76
interacting with my
nephew who was a baby,
00:32:08.79\00:32:11.69
so, she showed me what
true Christian love was
00:32:11.73\00:32:14.56
which I thought was acceptance
when really in actuality,
00:32:14.60\00:32:17.87
secretly she was
praying for my deliverance.
00:32:17.90\00:32:20.70
So, when I came back
to the Lord as a mess,
00:32:20.74\00:32:23.14
eventually the Lord addressed
my boyfriend and I said,
00:32:23.17\00:32:26.64
"If you want... if you
want me out of that life,
00:32:26.68\00:32:30.05
you've got to do it yourself
00:32:30.11\00:32:31.45
because I'm digging up my
heels and I'll prove to you
00:32:31.48\00:32:33.11
if you could just
convert my boyfriend,
00:32:33.15\00:32:34.58
we'd be this
mighty team for you. "
00:32:34.62\00:32:35.98
And you know what?
00:32:36.02\00:32:37.35
God said, "All right,
I'll get right on that... "
00:32:37.39\00:32:39.09
and within three weeks my
boyfriend broke up with me.
00:32:39.12\00:32:41.06
Yvonne: All right "I'll get
right on it and he was gone. "
00:32:41.09\00:32:44.56
I knew that was God intervening,
this peace came over me
00:32:44.59\00:32:48.00
but then when I went home alone,
00:32:48.03\00:32:49.83
and I realized...
"You're telling me God
00:32:49.86\00:32:51.70
that I'll never be in
another relationship again?"
00:32:51.73\00:32:54.54
Not even thinking
change was possible for me,
00:32:54.57\00:32:57.34
I didn't even want it, I
was looking for any lie...
00:32:57.37\00:32:59.84
just tell me a lie so
that I can keep my boyfriend
00:32:59.87\00:33:02.41
and my identity, I
wasn't even interested
00:33:02.44\00:33:05.38
but as I read the Word
of God and I realized now,
00:33:05.41\00:33:08.35
"All right, I
was following Jesus
00:33:08.42\00:33:11.09
and he was the only one
that I could relate to,"
00:33:11.12\00:33:13.66
and I cried out and I said,
00:33:13.69\00:33:15.22
"Why would you
ask me to do that?
00:33:15.26\00:33:17.66
Why would you ask me to
give up everything that I am
00:33:17.69\00:33:20.00
and everything that I've created
because I didn't even think
00:33:20.03\00:33:22.56
that it was possible to
change, I didn't choose this,
00:33:22.60\00:33:24.87
I didn't want this,
but now that I'm here,
00:33:24.90\00:33:27.64
and now I have this great guy,
00:33:27.70\00:33:29.04
why would you ask
me to give that up?"
00:33:29.07\00:33:30.87
And so, for months it
was just me and Jesus Christ.
00:33:30.91\00:33:34.08
I would sob and I
remember thinking to myself,
00:33:34.14\00:33:37.61
I'll never have someone to hold,
00:33:37.65\00:33:40.48
I'll never be able to tell
someone that I love them again,
00:33:40.52\00:33:42.82
but during that time,
00:33:42.85\00:33:44.19
it was only Jesus
that was holding me
00:33:44.25\00:33:46.25
and loving me and filling
that emptiness inside of me
00:33:46.29\00:33:50.13
and I started to revive...
I started to come alive again
00:33:50.19\00:33:53.46
and realize that I don't
have to have a sexual encounter
00:33:53.56\00:33:56.80
to be satisfied, and I
didn't even know that the
00:33:56.83\00:33:59.53
peace of Jesus
Christ could satisfy
00:33:59.57\00:34:02.04
more than an
illicit sexual situation
00:34:02.07\00:34:04.44
and as shocking
as that was to me,
00:34:04.47\00:34:07.21
I really started to desire more
00:34:07.28\00:34:09.94
and when I saw the testimony
of homosexuals that had actually
00:34:09.98\00:34:13.28
changed their lives and
God had moved miraculously
00:34:13.35\00:34:16.99
in their life, then
that was motivation,
00:34:17.02\00:34:18.82
there was a real
feminine guy named Sy Rogers,
00:34:18.85\00:34:21.62
he's been doing
this for many years,
00:34:21.66\00:34:23.56
very feminine... lived as a
woman for a year and a half,
00:34:23.63\00:34:26.26
I struggled with transgenderism
also as a little boy,
00:34:26.29\00:34:28.90
so, as I saw his
testimony, I was so offended
00:34:28.93\00:34:31.87
thinking, "God
converted that nelly person
00:34:31.90\00:34:35.17
or whatever,
effeminate person... "
00:34:35.24\00:34:36.57
but what was so amazing is
as I watched his testimony,
00:34:36.60\00:34:38.54
then all of a sudden I realized,
00:34:38.57\00:34:40.08
"Well, if God
could do it for him,
00:34:40.14\00:34:41.58
then he can
certainly do it for me"
00:34:41.61\00:34:43.51
and that was when, I
started to really go in the
00:34:43.55\00:34:46.48
direction of... "All right Lord,
you said you can heal me... "
00:34:46.51\00:34:49.32
in Ministry of
Healing on page 17,
00:34:49.35\00:34:52.32
on the very first page it says
00:34:52.35\00:34:53.72
that Jesus came to
heal men completely,
00:34:53.76\00:34:55.79
physically,
spiritually and mentally,
00:34:55.82\00:34:58.13
and in the margin of my
book, I put an "H" and a circle
00:34:58.16\00:35:00.96
and said,
"There, it's on you Lord,
00:35:00.96\00:35:02.96
I can't change
who I'm attracted to,
00:35:03.00\00:35:04.93
I can't change my desires,
00:35:04.97\00:35:06.30
but you say you
can... this is on you,"
00:35:06.33\00:35:08.64
and as I started to
claim those promises,
00:35:08.67\00:35:11.17
as I turned those pages,
00:35:11.24\00:35:12.57
divine healing really
started to enter into my life
00:35:12.61\00:35:16.54
and that's been my motivation.
00:35:16.58\00:35:19.28
Amen, you know, what I'm hearing
00:35:19.31\00:35:21.98
from all four of you is that
00:35:22.02\00:35:24.62
there was a place
of brokenness early on
00:35:24.65\00:35:30.23
early on... something happened
that caused you to just get...
00:35:30.33\00:35:37.13
and we all have something
that has gone on in our lives,
00:35:37.17\00:35:41.07
I mean, this is not
like some indictment of you,
00:35:41.10\00:35:44.27
it's just an observation
that early on something happened
00:35:44.31\00:35:49.14
and there was a need for healing
and you sought connection,
00:35:49.18\00:35:54.02
you sought an
answer to the problem...
00:35:54.08\00:35:58.75
the answer
wasn't a sexual thing,
00:35:58.79\00:36:02.89
the problem wasn't a
sexual thing actually...
00:36:02.92\00:36:06.16
what you were doing is
seeking a sexual solution
00:36:06.19\00:36:09.40
to a non-sexual problem.
00:36:09.43\00:36:11.67
That's what... the problem was
00:36:11.70\00:36:13.77
the brokenness, but
you needed the intimacy
00:36:13.84\00:36:17.34
and so you found it
through same-sex attraction
00:36:17.41\00:36:20.98
and what God said to
all of you in a sense is,
00:36:21.01\00:36:24.78
"Let me heal you... let
me... let me fix it... "
00:36:24.81\00:36:28.48
because we all have stuff
that we need to have fixed...
00:36:28.55\00:36:31.15
Jason: And we all
look to fill the void.
00:36:31.22\00:36:32.55
Yvonne: That's right.
00:36:32.59\00:36:33.96
Jason: And a lot of times we'll
look everywhere but Christ,
00:36:33.99\00:36:37.53
I turned... I did drugs
and alcohol and stuff like that
00:36:37.56\00:36:41.40
and so... you look to
all these other things
00:36:41.43\00:36:44.90
but you're still empty,
00:36:44.93\00:36:46.27
and even when
you're making good money
00:36:46.30\00:36:48.24
and have the nice car and the
house and everything like that
00:36:48.27\00:36:51.64
there's still the emptiness...
00:36:51.67\00:36:53.01
there's still the void
that only Jesus can fill.
00:36:53.04\00:36:54.94
You know a lot of
the dominant factors
00:36:54.98\00:36:58.65
that I see in homosexuality is a
00:36:58.68\00:37:01.98
perception of rejection
00:37:02.05\00:37:03.72
and I grew up
feeling rejected by my father
00:37:03.75\00:37:07.29
and rejected by my
peers and we become...
00:37:07.32\00:37:10.29
after years of
dealing with this perception,
00:37:10.36\00:37:13.29
we become hypersensitive to that
00:37:13.33\00:37:15.83
and I think that's
probably one of the reasons
00:37:15.86\00:37:18.93
today we have so
much restriction on speech
00:37:18.97\00:37:22.00
and so forth... because
now, a difference of opinion
00:37:22.04\00:37:25.47
is viewed by the
gay culture as rejection
00:37:25.51\00:37:29.04
and rejection is not nice
in fact, we'll call it hate,
00:37:29.11\00:37:32.75
and we need to be
protected from hate
00:37:32.78\00:37:35.22
so we need to be protected
from a difference of opinion
00:37:35.25\00:37:38.29
even if it's the Word
of God... it's rejection.
00:37:38.32\00:37:41.49
So there's this
feeling of rejection from God,
00:37:41.52\00:37:44.66
from the church and Society,
00:37:44.69\00:37:47.40
from our peers, from
our parents or whatever
00:37:47.40\00:37:50.37
and the sexual fulfillment
that you're talking about
00:37:50.43\00:37:55.44
is a counterfeit way to
deal with that rejection
00:37:55.50\00:37:59.87
because we're now accepted,
someone is accepting us
00:37:59.91\00:38:04.18
and a perverted acceptance
is better than rejection.
00:38:04.21\00:38:08.15
and that's what we
end up dealing with.
00:38:08.18\00:38:10.25
And let's talk
about that a little bit,
00:38:10.32\00:38:12.25
I think that now... you
don't see as much rejection...
00:38:12.29\00:38:15.79
you see more acceptance
and how did that come about?
00:38:15.82\00:38:19.29
How did that shift
in Society to where now
00:38:19.33\00:38:22.56
the gay culture is more
accepted... socially accepted?
00:38:22.63\00:38:28.60
Because church congregations
are taking their cue
00:38:28.67\00:38:32.84
from the gay community
now and so the teaching is...
00:38:32.87\00:38:37.15
is that the imposition of
what the gay community desires
00:38:37.18\00:38:41.35
the "world message... "
00:38:41.38\00:38:42.72
where God says to
come away from the world
00:38:42.75\00:38:44.39
instead of being
a part of the world
00:38:44.42\00:38:45.79
is being mirrored upon churches
00:38:45.82\00:38:47.76
and churches...
in their ignorance...
00:38:47.79\00:38:49.59
instead of digging
and getting the truth,
00:38:49.62\00:38:51.33
the love and truth
message that they can offer,
00:38:51.36\00:38:54.40
they're just saying,
"Okay, okay, I'm sorry
00:38:54.46\00:38:57.43
we hurt you and
that wasn't right
00:38:57.53\00:38:59.67
and so, come on
in and and we... "
00:38:59.70\00:39:02.14
not only do they
accept the sinner
00:39:02.20\00:39:04.24
but they accept the sin with it.
00:39:04.27\00:39:06.27
Because like... when you're
looking at the television shows
00:39:06.31\00:39:10.08
and stuff today... like...
almost every television show
00:39:10.11\00:39:13.75
has some kind of
innuendo in there.
00:39:13.78\00:39:16.85
Mike: It's normalized.
00:39:16.92\00:39:18.35
Jason: Yes, yeah, yeah,
it's just blatantly open.
00:39:18.39\00:39:21.96
So, I think, part of what
we're really talking about...
00:39:21.99\00:39:25.46
you said, Yvonne,
00:39:25.49\00:39:26.93
God was saying,
"Let me heal you"
00:39:26.96\00:39:29.23
and instantly what
came into my mind was,
00:39:29.26\00:39:31.80
No... God was saying,
"Mike, let me love you,"
00:39:31.83\00:39:35.37
and it's interesting because
00:39:35.40\00:39:37.31
we're accused of
not being loving,
00:39:37.34\00:39:39.01
that we have a hate message
when really God is saying,
00:39:39.04\00:39:41.78
"Just let me love you
and part of loving you...
00:39:41.81\00:39:43.95
you've got to separate
yourself from the things that
00:39:43.98\00:39:46.82
keep you from my love. "
00:39:46.85\00:39:48.18
And after we started
experiencing that love,
00:39:48.22\00:39:50.79
that's the only thing that
drew me away from the things
00:39:50.82\00:39:53.89
that I desperately
was trying to hang on to.
00:39:53.96\00:39:56.09
Yvonne: So... oh, go ahead Jay.
00:39:56.12\00:39:58.16
I would like to go down
the line with each of you
00:39:58.19\00:40:03.77
and ask what
advice would you give
00:40:03.83\00:40:05.87
to people that are in
church when they encounter
00:40:05.90\00:40:09.30
someone in the gay culture
00:40:09.34\00:40:11.77
how do they go about
showing them that they love them
00:40:11.81\00:40:16.01
and that they care about
them and trying to welcome them
00:40:16.04\00:40:20.28
into the church
00:40:20.32\00:40:21.65
because it's a fine line
without condoning the behavior.
00:40:21.68\00:40:25.79
Sure, well, I think one of
the biggest things for me was
00:40:25.85\00:40:30.29
that I was expecting
people to react a certain way,
00:40:30.33\00:40:35.23
I was expecting
them to be surprised
00:40:35.26\00:40:37.97
and it was surprising to
me when they weren't surprised
00:40:38.03\00:40:41.50
and I think sometimes
we... we express a lot more
00:40:41.54\00:40:48.14
than is beneficial
and we look at a person
00:40:48.18\00:40:51.95
and we assume we know
their motives, their reasoning,
00:40:51.98\00:40:55.58
we look at a person and we think
that they are just rebellious
00:40:55.62\00:40:59.42
and obviously
they're just troublemakers
00:40:59.45\00:41:02.29
and they need to get
their lives straightened up
00:41:02.32\00:41:04.36
but a lot of the times we
are just honestly and earnestly
00:41:04.39\00:41:08.26
doing what we believe is true
00:41:08.30\00:41:10.03
with the
information that we have
00:41:10.07\00:41:11.83
and so I would encourage people
00:41:11.87\00:41:13.50
not to look at
someone and assume you know
00:41:13.54\00:41:15.50
what is going on in their life
00:41:15.54\00:41:16.87
and why they're
doing what they're doing
00:41:16.91\00:41:18.24
but to just reach out to them
00:41:18.27\00:41:22.71
like you would anyone else
and make yourself transparent
00:41:22.74\00:41:26.55
because when you
are vulnerable enough
00:41:26.58\00:41:30.69
to make yourself transparent
and open up to someone
00:41:30.75\00:41:33.42
about what
you're struggling with,
00:41:33.46\00:41:34.79
it helps them to realize that...
that you can relate to them
00:41:34.82\00:41:39.53
you can trust them...
that they're not just coming...
00:41:39.56\00:41:43.00
I'm not just coming to you
to try and expose your mess
00:41:43.03\00:41:46.47
because I'm a
mess too, you know.
00:41:46.53\00:41:49.57
Yvonne: That's true, yeah.
00:41:49.60\00:41:51.17
And when we can have that
kind of... that kind of love
00:41:51.24\00:41:56.01
that shows that we're all
in need and that the remedy is
00:41:56.04\00:42:00.95
is big enough for any
of that, for all of that,
00:42:00.98\00:42:04.79
for all of the mess
and I would also say too
00:42:04.82\00:42:08.32
a life of example
00:42:08.36\00:42:10.76
speaks much more than any
amount of words really can
00:42:10.83\00:42:14.66
so those are the
gems that I would share.
00:42:14.73\00:42:16.63
Group: Amen.
Yvonne: That's good yeah.
00:42:16.67\00:42:18.57
We are counseled that the
most powerful witness for truth
00:42:18.60\00:42:21.77
is a loving and
lovable Christian
00:42:21.80\00:42:23.97
and so, we need...
as church members...
00:42:24.01\00:42:27.54
we need to befriend
whoever comes to our church.
00:42:27.58\00:42:31.88
In my church, we have
a fellow that has come in
00:42:31.91\00:42:35.25
that is a... he's a
level 4 sex offender,
00:42:35.28\00:42:40.26
and he's registered
and he has been put out
00:42:40.32\00:42:45.16
of all the different
churches in the community,
00:42:45.19\00:42:47.03
but he is coming to our church
00:42:47.10\00:42:49.23
and he is finding that he
is loved and he's cared for,
00:42:49.26\00:42:53.37
he's befriended...
00:42:53.40\00:42:54.77
there is a struggle
with some of the members
00:42:54.80\00:42:57.24
in that area... but we're
trying to educate the members
00:42:57.27\00:43:00.28
to be friendly and
not hold this over him,
00:43:00.31\00:43:05.01
he is coming to
church for a reason,
00:43:05.05\00:43:07.12
he wants help... and when
we read the words of Jesus,
00:43:07.15\00:43:10.99
"Seek ye first the kingdom
of God and His righteousness"
00:43:11.02\00:43:14.79
we have to
realize that the gay issue
00:43:14.82\00:43:17.69
may be symptomatic...
like you were saying
00:43:17.73\00:43:20.60
it is a symptom...
the gay behavior...
00:43:20.63\00:43:23.43
is really a symptom of
something else much deeper
00:43:23.47\00:43:26.37
and a lot of
times we need to realize
00:43:26.43\00:43:30.07
that there are so many other
areas that need to be dealt with
00:43:30.11\00:43:34.48
before the
behavior is confronted
00:43:34.51\00:43:38.61
because that can be down
the list of things that the Lord
00:43:38.65\00:43:43.02
needs to take care of
and so we need to work on
00:43:43.05\00:43:46.49
bringing them to Christ
00:43:46.52\00:43:48.66
and developing a
relationship with Christ
00:43:48.69\00:43:50.73
maybe not even
addressing the gay issue
00:43:50.79\00:43:52.79
until they bring it up
because as they behold Christ
00:43:52.83\00:43:56.30
and come closer to Him... they
will start seeing themselves
00:43:56.33\00:43:59.60
that there is something
that is holding them back
00:43:59.63\00:44:02.30
and they may
start asking questions
00:44:02.37\00:44:04.57
and we need to be instead...
in season, out of season
00:44:04.61\00:44:07.38
to answer their questions
that they bring forward.
00:44:07.41\00:44:10.08
Yvonne: Hmmm... hmmm...
00:44:10.15\00:44:11.48
Don't play... Holy
Spirit Junior it's not becoming.
00:44:11.51\00:44:17.95
Yvonne: Holy Spirit
Junior? Wayne: Yeah.
00:44:17.99\00:44:19.39
You know we've done a
good job in many denominations
00:44:19.42\00:44:23.76
not just the one
that we represent
00:44:23.83\00:44:25.33
of holding out the truth
and just... making sure that
00:44:25.36\00:44:30.03
you understand truth
00:44:30.07\00:44:31.40
because if you understand truth,
00:44:31.43\00:44:32.80
you'll change, but I
share in a presentation
00:44:32.83\00:44:35.97
that I have frequently,
00:44:36.00\00:44:37.47
you can't share
what you don't have
00:44:37.51\00:44:40.08
and if you don't have...
00:44:40.14\00:44:42.04
if you personally
haven't experienced
00:44:42.08\00:44:44.58
a personal, intimate
love from Jesus Christ,
00:44:44.61\00:44:47.38
you're not going
to do a very good job
00:44:47.42\00:44:49.22
of sharing that
with someone else.
00:44:49.25\00:44:50.85
Open up your heart
and thank the person
00:44:50.89\00:44:54.59
for being willing to share
their walk, their experience,
00:44:54.62\00:44:57.59
what happened to them,
what they struggle with
00:44:57.63\00:45:02.53
and let them know
that they are loved,
00:45:02.56\00:45:04.27
that they are welcomed,
don't be afraid that...
00:45:04.30\00:45:06.94
that you're not
seeing change immediately,
00:45:06.97\00:45:08.97
the change that
you expect to see
00:45:09.04\00:45:10.74
let God do the
work, go to God in prayer,
00:45:10.81\00:45:14.44
be invitational to the person,
00:45:14.51\00:45:16.95
make sure that
they're welcome in your home
00:45:16.98\00:45:18.58
share with them the things
that God has done for you,
00:45:18.65\00:45:23.52
the things that you
thought were impossible
00:45:23.59\00:45:26.22
and think a little
bit about the fact that
00:45:26.29\00:45:28.86
that we haven't
had a real good message
00:45:28.89\00:45:31.39
in our denominations today
with regards to homosexuality
00:45:31.43\00:45:35.60
and the opposite of
homosexuality... being holiness
00:45:35.63\00:45:38.70
you know... not heterosexuality.
00:45:38.73\00:45:40.40
Think about inviting
'Coming Out' Ministries
00:45:40.44\00:45:43.57
to come to your church and
to share from a personal...
00:45:43.61\00:45:46.94
a very personal perspective
00:45:46.98\00:45:48.61
and a Biblical
perspective at the same time,
00:45:48.68\00:45:51.11
you'll be surprised
because what you might expect
00:45:51.15\00:45:54.18
from us might
not be what you see,
00:45:54.22\00:45:55.88
what you may see is
that you'll see the testimony
00:45:55.92\00:45:58.92
of what Jesus
has been able to do
00:45:58.95\00:46:00.89
and some guidelines
that God has given us
00:46:00.92\00:46:03.36
in the process that
maybe we've overlooked
00:46:03.39\00:46:05.49
for a very long time.
00:46:05.53\00:46:06.86
That's great, how
can people get in touch
00:46:06.93\00:46:09.10
with 'Coming Out' Ministries?
00:46:09.13\00:46:10.47
comingoutministries.
org is our website
00:46:10.50\00:46:13.94
and you can click on: Contact
00:46:13.97\00:46:15.54
and we'll be happy to
get you on the schedule.
00:46:15.57\00:46:18.01
That's incredible... thank you.
00:46:18.04\00:46:20.08
Jason: What about you Mike,
what advice would you have?
00:46:20.11\00:46:22.68
I was thinking about all the
answers that I wanted to give,
00:46:22.71\00:46:25.28
they've said but I think that
00:46:25.31\00:46:27.75
one of the things that
we can definitely do is...
00:46:27.78\00:46:29.82
each one of
us... is sitting here
00:46:29.85\00:46:31.55
because of intercessory prayer
00:46:31.59\00:46:33.15
and the damage of
a message of saying,
00:46:33.19\00:46:35.59
"You're okay in
your gay identity"
00:46:35.62\00:46:37.96
is the fact that... that
means you'll stop praying for me
00:46:37.99\00:46:40.63
and it was only because
Danielle's mother said to God,
00:46:40.70\00:46:43.43
"Interrupt her plans...
00:46:43.47\00:46:44.80
don't give her what she seeks,
show her she needs you," right?
00:46:44.83\00:46:47.60
Ron's parents
were dropping of books,
00:46:47.64\00:46:49.60
under his pillow, on a cabinet,
00:46:49.64\00:46:51.74
behind the toilet,
00:46:51.77\00:46:53.11
they were dropping off these
books and praying for their son,
00:46:53.14\00:46:55.88
Wayne's mother and
father... for 40 years...
00:46:55.91\00:46:59.08
asked an Elder to pray,
after 40 years... and they said,
00:46:59.11\00:47:01.95
"Is it possible for my son
to change to come back to you?"
00:47:01.98\00:47:04.89
and this Elder didn't want
to dash their hopes and he said,
00:47:04.92\00:47:07.59
"Well, let's pray" but he
didn't think it was possible.
00:47:07.62\00:47:10.19
Knelt down and prayed
this faithless prayer,
00:47:10.26\00:47:12.36
they got up, his
parents were crying
00:47:12.39\00:47:14.03
they'd been praying for
their son for over 40 years
00:47:14.10\00:47:16.23
and then, that Wednesday,
00:47:16.26\00:47:18.23
was when Wayne called
his parents and he said,
00:47:18.27\00:47:20.04
"I'm getting
baptized this weekend"
00:47:20.07\00:47:22.14
forty years... and so,
one of the things is...
00:47:22.17\00:47:24.74
we like to encourage
people, "Don't stop praying"
00:47:24.77\00:47:27.31
God may not be able to use you
but He could use something else
00:47:27.38\00:47:30.98
and so, if you think
that this is acceptable,
00:47:31.01\00:47:33.42
then you won't pray
and have the opportunity
00:47:33.45\00:47:36.02
to send angels to
minister to someone's help
00:47:36.05\00:47:38.62
and then, don't drop the ball
00:47:38.65\00:47:40.36
when they start
coming into church
00:47:40.46\00:47:42.59
and you're like...
you don't know what to do
00:47:42.62\00:47:44.23
and what I love is...
00:47:44.26\00:47:45.59
is... God makes
the gospel so simple,
00:47:45.63\00:47:48.03
there's not a
criteria for the homosexual
00:47:48.06\00:47:50.83
and a criteria
for the drug addict
00:47:50.87\00:47:52.93
and a protocol
for somebody else...
00:47:52.97\00:47:55.04
it's all the same,
00:47:55.07\00:47:56.40
God says, "If I be lifted up...
I will draw all men unto me"
00:47:56.44\00:47:59.94
and what ministered to my soul
was not attacking my lifestyle
00:48:00.04\00:48:03.61
or my culture or
even in my history,
00:48:03.68\00:48:05.45
just start showing me the love
of Jesus... in how you live,
00:48:05.48\00:48:08.68
in how you represent the
Word and then that draws them
00:48:08.72\00:48:11.85
and then let the Holy Spirit
00:48:11.89\00:48:13.25
worry about the
converting of that person
00:48:13.29\00:48:15.22
and it may take a
while. Yvonne: Right, right.
00:48:15.29\00:48:17.89
You know about being a
praying mom, don't you?
00:48:17.93\00:48:20.53
Yes, I do... yes I do,
00:48:20.56\00:48:23.67
I was praying and
continue to pray actually,
00:48:23.70\00:48:26.43
I've seen God do
such amazing things,
00:48:26.47\00:48:29.67
He brought Jason back
and I have an older son
00:48:29.70\00:48:33.68
and I'm still praying for him
00:48:33.71\00:48:35.21
and I know God is
going to do that for him
00:48:35.24\00:48:38.25
and so, I'm just so
grateful and all of you
00:48:38.28\00:48:41.18
are sitting here again...
because of intercessory prayer.
00:48:41.22\00:48:44.29
It works... prayer
works... don't give up,
00:48:44.32\00:48:46.86
don't give up praying for
that friend, that family member,
00:48:46.89\00:48:50.83
that person that you
know... that friend of a friend,
00:48:50.86\00:48:54.50
that friend on
Facebook, don't give up
00:48:54.56\00:48:57.27
because God's got a
plan... God's got a plan
00:48:57.33\00:49:01.40
He wants to give
people the abundant life
00:49:01.47\00:49:04.77
and we have a part
in that by praying.
00:49:04.81\00:49:08.08
What would you say has been
one of the greatest challenges
00:49:08.11\00:49:12.88
for your ministry both within
and outside of the church?
00:49:12.91\00:49:17.65
I think false accusation...
00:49:17.69\00:49:21.12
there are people
that make assumptions
00:49:21.16\00:49:24.39
without listening to us
00:49:24.46\00:49:25.79
and so, there has been a
history of "change ministries"
00:49:25.83\00:49:28.50
meaning that... a ministry
is going to take someone
00:49:28.53\00:49:31.47
that is homosexual
and make them heterosexual
00:49:31.50\00:49:33.64
and that's how you gain glory
in God's presence by doing...
00:49:33.74\00:49:38.24
by changing your sex habits and
there are therapies out there
00:49:38.27\00:49:42.81
like "reparative
therapy" "conversion therapy"
00:49:42.84\00:49:45.01
we've got to get
someone involved in that
00:49:45.05\00:49:46.65
so their life can be changed and
a lot of damage has been done
00:49:46.72\00:49:50.02
maybe some good
has been done by that
00:49:50.09\00:49:51.79
but a lot of damage has
been done by these therapies.
00:49:51.82\00:49:54.26
This isn't "conversion therapy"
00:49:54.29\00:49:55.66
this isn't "reparative therapy?"
00:49:55.69\00:49:57.03
Mike: This is "heart therapy. "
00:49:57.06\00:49:58.73
Okay, okay, unpack
it for us, unpack it...
00:49:58.76\00:50:00.53
Well, Yvonne, we really
are a full spectrum ministry
00:50:00.60\00:50:04.57
and we've accused
of trying to change
00:50:04.60\00:50:07.67
homosexuals to heterosexuals
00:50:07.70\00:50:09.24
but each one of us
is still on a journey
00:50:09.27\00:50:12.01
of that healing,
fortunately for Ron,
00:50:12.04\00:50:14.71
within a year he was
married, he has children
00:50:14.74\00:50:17.15
and they're grown and
00:50:17.21\00:50:18.61
Danielle faces challenges
of being a young woman
00:50:18.65\00:50:22.18
who has committed
herself to ministry,
00:50:22.22\00:50:24.45
I didn't even think it was
possible but several years ago,
00:50:24.49\00:50:27.89
I actually started to experience
attractions to the opposite sex
00:50:27.92\00:50:32.03
and so, now it's like
going through puberty twice
00:50:32.06\00:50:34.83
but... and then Wayne is
in his own experience also...
00:50:34.86\00:50:39.00
of waiting for that one woman
00:50:39.03\00:50:41.24
that God might
put in front of him
00:50:41.27\00:50:42.70
so, if you took five
minutes to listen to us,
00:50:42.74\00:50:46.91
you would realize that we are
not promoting heterosexuality
00:50:46.94\00:50:50.38
we're promoting
holiness in Jesus Christ
00:50:50.41\00:50:52.91
and as that is our
focus what's amazing is
00:50:52.95\00:50:55.42
certain things start to fall off
00:50:55.45\00:50:57.12
and other things
start to come in.
00:50:57.15\00:50:58.65
I think there is a
real misunderstanding
00:50:58.69\00:51:01.36
with a lot of Christians about
the plan of salvation period.
00:51:01.39\00:51:04.46
Because one thing that we
keep getting confronted with was
00:51:04.49\00:51:07.96
is this issue of temptation...
have you ever been tempted
00:51:08.00\00:51:11.43
or are you
tempted and the question
00:51:11.47\00:51:15.10
gives an impression
that if we're tempted,
00:51:15.14\00:51:18.31
we're not changed
into the image of Christ
00:51:18.34\00:51:21.28
or being changed
into the image of Christ,
00:51:21.34\00:51:24.21
but Jesus was tempted in
all points like as we are
00:51:24.25\00:51:27.68
yet without sin, He
suffered being tempted,
00:51:27.72\00:51:30.35
He resisted unto blood
striving against temptation
00:51:30.39\00:51:34.02
so, many Christians
just don't seem to understand
00:51:34.06\00:51:38.29
the difference
between temptation
00:51:38.33\00:51:40.76
and orientation for one thing,
00:51:40.80\00:51:43.03
and our
orientation is the direction
00:51:43.06\00:51:46.13
we're choosing to
go by God's grace,
00:51:46.17\00:51:49.10
it's not the
direction Satan wants us to go
00:51:49.14\00:51:52.04
and so, we really are
trying to educate Christians
00:51:52.07\00:51:56.78
to understand that this
whole concept of temptation
00:51:56.81\00:52:02.15
and sin... that we're
not... sin is not temptation...
00:52:02.18\00:52:07.46
or temptation is not sin,
00:52:07.49\00:52:09.36
temptation reveals
Satan's plan for your life
00:52:09.39\00:52:13.60
but God has a
plan for our lives too
00:52:13.63\00:52:16.23
and we're choosing
to follow God's plan
00:52:16.30\00:52:18.90
regardless of Satan's efforts.
00:52:18.93\00:52:21.47
Sin... when you
yield to that temptation...
00:52:21.50\00:52:24.71
when you give in to the
temptation, that's one of them.
00:52:24.74\00:52:27.04
And claim the gift
that God is offering you
00:52:27.08\00:52:30.71
of a new
identity in Jesus Christ.
00:52:30.75\00:52:33.21
A new creature is what He
promises in 2nd Corinthians 5:17
00:52:33.25\00:52:38.15
you don't have to
linger in the past
00:52:38.19\00:52:40.82
and cling to that gay identity
00:52:40.86\00:52:42.99
or be a
non-practicing homosexual
00:52:43.02\00:52:45.16
that's just things that
00:52:45.19\00:52:46.53
even the church is
offering today... a new identity
00:52:46.56\00:52:49.50
but it's not the identity
that Jesus has promised us...
00:52:49.53\00:52:52.50
let's make sure
that we go to the Word
00:52:52.53\00:52:54.64
where God says,
"Such were some of you
00:52:54.67\00:52:56.84
claim the identity
that He's offering you today
00:52:56.87\00:52:59.74
no matter what you've
suffered from... in your past. "
00:52:59.77\00:53:02.81
Yes, that's great, before we end
00:53:02.84\00:53:06.08
the time has flown by,
this has just been so wonderful
00:53:06.11\00:53:09.85
you have done a
series for Pure Choices
00:53:09.88\00:53:14.16
on Dare to Dream, in
fact this is the second time
00:53:14.19\00:53:17.83
that 'Coming Out'
Ministries has been here,
00:53:17.86\00:53:20.10
this is your first time Danielle
00:53:20.13\00:53:21.43
and we're so happy
that you're part of it,
00:53:21.46\00:53:23.00
what do we have
to look forward to...
00:53:23.03\00:53:26.94
what does the Viewer...
00:53:27.00\00:53:28.34
what kinds of topics did
you cover on Pure Choices
00:53:28.37\00:53:31.34
because we gave...
00:53:31.37\00:53:32.71
you guys got
this whole series here
00:53:32.74\00:53:36.48
so what would you say
you cover during this series?
00:53:36.51\00:53:40.58
You know, our first series
was called: The Gay Puzzle
00:53:40.62\00:53:44.25
and what we did is we
basically gave our testimonies
00:53:44.29\00:53:47.22
and then... some of the topics
00:53:47.32\00:53:49.46
I think that were really
depending on us personally,
00:53:49.49\00:53:51.89
now after we've been in ministry
for four years, I think,
00:53:51.93\00:53:54.96
Wayne: Five...
00:53:55.00\00:53:56.63
Five, thank you,
now what we've done is
00:53:56.70\00:53:58.33
we've gone much deeper
and realize that there are
00:53:58.37\00:54:00.94
issues of transgenderism,
00:54:00.97\00:54:02.37
issues of
prefixes before our titles
00:54:02.40\00:54:07.31
and we want to address...
00:54:07.38\00:54:08.71
Wayne: Parents...
Mike: Yeah, parents...
00:54:08.74\00:54:10.08
we've interviewed parents and...
00:54:10.11\00:54:11.45
and talked about the deep
emotional pain that they have
00:54:11.48\00:54:14.02
when we go to different venues,
00:54:14.12\00:54:16.05
we find that
parents have a deeper shame
00:54:16.08\00:54:18.75
and guilt about what
their children are going through
00:54:18.79\00:54:22.56
and so, we really
started to reach out and realize
00:54:22.59\00:54:25.39
that there's a ministry
involved in that as well.
00:54:25.43\00:54:28.50
So, I think we have a
fuller picture of what we began
00:54:28.53\00:54:31.60
in our first series
with you three years ago.
00:54:31.67\00:54:34.64
You know, our
testimonies are given to inspire
00:54:34.67\00:54:38.01
and then... but we
go beyond inspiring...
00:54:38.04\00:54:41.31
we want to enlighten and
we want to equip the church
00:54:41.34\00:54:44.55
to deal with this issue
in a very redemptive way
00:54:44.58\00:54:47.75
and we thank you for
offering us the privilege
00:54:47.78\00:54:50.85
and the opportunity to
do this on Pure Choices.
00:54:50.89\00:54:53.86
Well, we thank
you, because this series
00:54:53.92\00:54:57.69
is just going to be so powerful.
00:54:57.73\00:55:00.53
Do you have
anything Jay before we close?
00:55:00.56\00:55:03.87
Not only powerful
but really educational
00:55:03.90\00:55:07.14
so a lot of
people get an inside look
00:55:07.17\00:55:10.34
and I'm glad that you guys
are address the question of
00:55:10.41\00:55:13.58
how should Christians go about
welcoming people to their church
00:55:13.61\00:55:19.01
we need to constantly
be building the church
00:55:19.05\00:55:21.52
and we want to see
everyone in heaven,
00:55:21.55\00:55:24.89
Ron: Not willing
that any should perish.
00:55:24.92\00:55:29.56
Amen, you guys are
on the frontlines and so
00:55:29.59\00:55:32.29
I ask you Viewers to pray
for 'Coming Out' Ministries
00:55:32.33\00:55:35.86
because they are truly
on the frontlines here...
00:55:35.90\00:55:38.97
really going up against
the Kingdom of darkness...
00:55:39.00\00:55:42.00
there's so much...
00:55:42.04\00:55:43.41
they are swimming
against the tide...
00:55:43.47\00:55:46.21
so I thank you Mike and
Wayne and Ron and Danielle
00:55:46.24\00:55:50.71
for all that you do
for the cause of Christ.
00:55:50.75\00:55:53.92
Know that we love you,
know that we are behind you
00:55:53.98\00:55:57.55
and I hope that our
Viewers will be praying...
00:55:57.59\00:56:01.09
that you'll be praying
for this wonderful ministry
00:56:01.12\00:56:04.36
because it's really
difficult out there.
00:56:04.39\00:56:07.50
Thank you so much for
everything and thank you Jay,
00:56:07.56\00:56:11.23
you did a great
job, it's really good.
00:56:11.27\00:56:16.07
Make sure to check out
this season of Pure Choices.
00:56:16.10\00:56:23.75
That was so powerful you know,
00:56:23.78\00:56:27.62
we are new creatures in Christ.
00:56:27.65\00:56:31.45
The Bible says in
2nd Corinthians 5:17,
00:56:31.49\00:56:34.72
"Therefore if
any man be in Christ,
00:56:34.76\00:56:37.93
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
00:56:37.96\00:56:41.90
behold, all
things are become new. "
00:56:41.93\00:56:44.90
We praise God for the abundant
life that He provides for us
00:56:44.93\00:56:48.97
if we'll follow him.
00:56:49.00\00:56:50.41
Thank you so much for supporting
us here at Dare to Dream,
00:56:50.47\00:56:54.74
thank you for
watching these programs
00:56:54.78\00:56:56.81
and we pray that
you'll be able to apply these
00:56:56.85\00:56:59.78
spiritual
principles to your life.
00:56:59.81\00:57:01.62
Please support us with your
prayers and your financial gifts
00:57:01.65\00:57:06.02
and if the Holy
Spirit impresses you,
00:57:06.05\00:57:08.29
please send your
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00:57:08.32\00:57:12.16
Also, you can
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00:57:36.38\00:57:39.02
We welcome your
suggestions, if you have topics
00:57:39.05\00:57:42.56
that you want us to
cover in programming,
00:57:42.59\00:57:44.66
please let us know
00:57:44.73\00:57:46.13
and if our programs are
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00:57:46.16\00:57:49.33
also, let us know that
00:57:49.36\00:57:50.87
because we want to
know who is being reached
00:57:50.93\00:57:53.44
by these programs.
00:57:53.50\00:57:54.84
Our goal is to help
people to find Jesus
00:57:54.87\00:57:58.14
through these programs.
00:57:58.17\00:57:59.51
Thank you so
much for joining us,
00:57:59.54\00:58:01.31
join us next time
00:58:01.34\00:58:02.68
because it just wouldn't
be the same... without you.
00:58:02.71\00:58:05.41