The following program
discusses sensitive issues.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Stay tuned to meet two
men who are delivered from
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gender identity confusion.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guests today
are Mike Carducci from
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'Coming Out' Ministries
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and Walt Heyer,
Lecturer and Author.
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I had a chance to talk with them
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when they came here to be
on our Dare to Dream Program
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Pure Choices,
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you won't
believe the powerful way
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God has worked in
their lives. Take a look.
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What a joy it is for me to
be on the Set of Pure Choices
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interviewing and talking
to two amazing men of God.
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Mike Carducci of
'Coming Out' Ministries
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and Walt Heyer...
Walt Heyer is a Lecturer
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and Author and both of
you have amazing experiences
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and I asked Mike... who was here
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with the rest of
'Coming Out' Ministries
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to do this series...
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they came to do this
whole series on Pure Choices,
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and when I heard
Walt's testimony,
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I knew that you
had to hear this.
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So, I got Mike to come join me
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and Mike, I want you to just...
kind of just... you know,
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ask any questions
that you might have
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from Walt as we have Walt here,
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and I knew that
we only had Walt for
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a little bit of
time so we grabbed you up
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and you to do this
and so thank you so much
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both of you for being with us.
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Walt: Yeah, my pleasure.
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So, let's get in...
Walt, your story to me
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it's just so profound
because what I see in Media
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is this thrust... this push
to accept the whole transgender
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movement, not only to accept it
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but to promote it and
so I'd like for our Viewers
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to hear about
your journey and then
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we're just going to kind of ask
you questions as we go along.
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Walt: Sure.
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Tell us about your journey,
how did this whole thing start?
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Yeah, that's great,
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I'm so happy to be
able to do this because
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people do need to get
a better understanding
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of how this all
gets started, in my case,
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I was four-years old
and whether it was my idea
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or my
grandmother's, I don't know
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but she started crossdressing me
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and she really
enjoyed crossdressing me
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but we did it in secret,
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it was
"grandma's secret" with me
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and over a period of
time, she began to increase this
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to the point...
she was a Seamstress
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so she made this
purple, chiffon evening dress,
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this long, flowing evening dress
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that she just
took a lot of pride in
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now keep in mind,
I'm four-years old
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and so, here she
is... dressing me up
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and she's fawning over me,
she's making a big fuss over me
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about being a girl
and obviously, to me,
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she liked me much better as
a girl than she did as a boy
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which... I always say
plants a seed in my mind that
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"Gee, there must be
something wrong with me
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if she's liking me better
as a girl than as a boy... "
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that becomes a
conflict within myself
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about who I am and...
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so this went on for
a couple of years...
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every time she had the
opportunity to babysit me
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which was almost every weekend.
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Yvonne: Were you an only child?
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No, I had a brother
and my brother got to go
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to my other grandma's house.
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Neither one of
them wanted us both
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so I got this grandma,
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so I got this grandma...
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I always teasingly say,
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"Well, he got the good grandma
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and I'm not sure I
got the good one" but...
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so this grandma...
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it was in the LA area
and it was behind a junkyard
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in a small house and
grandpa was a tow truck driver
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and he was gone most of
the time so when he was gone,
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this is what
grandma and I were doing.
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And so, eventually,
after a couple of years,
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I really
started kind of enjoying
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the love and the affirmation
and the encouragement
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that I was getting... because
she seemed to be very happy.
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So it was making me
happy that she was happy.
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Now, do you know if she
ever did this to anybody else?
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To my knowledge, no.
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Was she your
maternal or paternal?
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It was my mother's mother.
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Okay, so she was
dressing your mom up
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in just regular "girl" clothes
but there were no other siblings
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that you had that she was
doing this with, just you?
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No, just me...
yeah, and like I said,
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she seemed to
enjoy it a great deal
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which made me enjoy it
and so eventually, I decided,
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"Gee, I want to wear
this dress when I get home
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but I'd have to... " I
knew because it was a secret
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I'd have to do it in secret
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but I took the dress
and put it in a brown bag
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one time when dad
was coming to pick me up
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and take me back
home, I got it home
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and I stuffed it in the
bottom drawer of my dresser
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and a few days later,
my mother found the dress
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well then... there was a
big explosion in the house,
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"What are you
doing with the dress?"
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"How did this come about?"
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So there was
this big explanation
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and when they found out
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that grandma had
been crossdressing me
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for two-and-a-half years,
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it was a tough
place to live for a while
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I mean... because
they were in conflict,
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I couldn't go to
grandma's anymore
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then I felt
like it was my fault,
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that I had done something wrong
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so I was bad...
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and then Dad, who
was a police officer,
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auxiliary police
officer at that time
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decided that the
way to "man" me up
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was to use some heavy discipline
like hardwood floor planks
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and things like
that to discipline me
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probably today it would
be considered very harsh
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and so, that was... I
really believed though
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within him, he was
struggling with trying to...
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he didn't know what to
do, like most parents don't.
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I mean, what do you do?
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Here you have this situation
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and it's a
dynamic... in the family,
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it's very
difficult, you get a wife,
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it's her mother, you
get, you know, in-law...
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the whole thing is
just a whole wicked dynamic.
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And my brother is
kind of sitting back
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watching this whole thing
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and not knowing
what to do himself.
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How did your brother
relate to you during this time
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as all of this
attention was on you,
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how your brother react?
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He kind of dove into silence
and got into reading books
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he just kind of disconnected
and he became an avid reader
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and he just read all the
time book after book after book
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and he was a year-and-a-
half older than I was
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and so that was his
way of dealing with it,
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he was kind of a... I would say,
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"a strong, quiet
intellect" in the family.
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Hmmm... hmmm...
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Can I bring up a thought,
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one of the things
that we have in common
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is that we had very
aggressive, masculine fathers
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and because of my
rejection of that masculinity
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is why I ended up
going towards my mother.
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Do you think that your father's
over-masculine influence
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had some reaction as well?
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Because he became
abusive and overbearing,
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is it possible that
along with the crossdressing
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with your grandmother,
that had an influence as well?
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Well, sure, I
think anytime you get
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any kind of heavy discipline
like that... it's going to bound
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it's bound to have some
negative influence on you
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that... you
know... all of a sudden,
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you're now bad with grandma
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and bad with dad, I mean,
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the things you're just not...
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it's hard to know what to do
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when you're six-
or seven-years old.
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How do you work
through all these ailments?
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So yeah, I think, definitely the
discipline played a part in it.
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Well, my thought would be
that if your father was loving
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and nurturing, then,
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because you already
had this identification
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with the feminine side,
imagine how that could have
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drawn you into a
masculine identity
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if you had a father
that was understanding
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and receptive and nurturing.
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Well, you know, it's
funny, my dad was actually
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kind of two-sided that
way because part of him
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wanted... he
wanted to be with me
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because I think he
wanted to have that influence
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so he spent time with me but
I think he was always troubled
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by what he knew
grandma was doing
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and I could almost
see the pain in him...
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in his own way,
trying to deal with me.
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He bought me a
little shovel one time...
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a little red-handled shovel
and I'd go out in the yard
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and start to dig
along... beside him,
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that was kind of...
one of the things he did
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but he would have these
periods where he was fine
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and loving and caring
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but he'd have times where
it just... he was so frustrated
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that... then his discipline
just got out of hand, yeah.
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I wanted to ask you
about your grandma for a minute
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because it's
really interesting to me,
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how young children
get victimized and groomed
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and it seems as
though your grandma was...
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she told you, "This is a secret"
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and that's what
"groomers" do, is it not?
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Right.
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They make sure that the
children who are the victims
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don't tell a
soul, "Do not tell... "
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Did she threaten you or
was it a joyful little secret
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like... our
playful little secret?
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Yeah, it was a playful...
that's the way I'd describe it,
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a playful secret
but isn't it interesting
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that, you know, a
secret is always kind of...
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I didn't know at the
age of four or five...
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but there's always an indication
there's something wrong.
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Hmmm...
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Right, a secret means somebody's
doing something wrong.
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Hmmm...
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And what troubles me today
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is the same thing
that I know today from
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looking back at my life is that
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when you crossdress a
young boy... as a girl,
00:09:58.93\00:10:02.40
you're actually
emotionally and psychologically
00:10:02.43\00:10:05.93
committing abuse on that child.
00:10:05.97\00:10:07.50
Unpack that...
unpack that for us...
00:10:07.60\00:10:11.11
Anytime you are
beginning to dis-assemble
00:10:11.14\00:10:15.71
by virtue of crossdressing
and disassemble their identity,
00:10:15.78\00:10:19.98
what's happening?
00:10:20.02\00:10:21.35
You're impacting
who they think they are
00:10:21.38\00:10:23.95
and it becomes very confusing,
00:10:23.99\00:10:25.32
it's no wonder they end
up with "gender dysphoria. "
00:10:25.35\00:10:27.66
So, when you crossdress
them, you're saying...
00:10:27.69\00:10:31.13
many things... you're
signaled without the words.
00:10:31.16\00:10:34.56
One, there's
something wrong with you...
00:10:34.56\00:10:36.03
one, you're better as a girl...
one, I like you better as a girl
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I prefer you... all
these different things
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are messages that...
they don't have to speak
00:10:42.14\00:10:44.67
but you're
saying them by the fact
00:10:44.71\00:10:46.54
that you're actually
putting him in a dress
00:10:46.61\00:10:49.64
and then talking to them
as though they're a young girl
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and presenting them that way.
00:10:52.78\00:10:54.25
So, what do you say
to that parent that says,
00:10:54.28\00:10:57.72
"Little Johnny likes dresses,
00:10:57.75\00:11:00.16
little Johnny wants to
comb hair and play with hair
00:11:00.19\00:11:04.49
and do all of this
00:11:04.53\00:11:05.86
so I'm just letting
little Johnny be who he is.
00:11:05.89\00:11:08.36
Well, you know,
that is a troubling issue
00:11:08.40\00:11:10.73
for parents, no doubt,
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.10
if I were raising a child,
00:11:12.13\00:11:14.37
I think all kids are
curious about their gender.
00:11:14.40\00:11:18.37
I also think it's a
parent's responsibility
00:11:18.41\00:11:21.61
to teach them about who they are
00:11:21.64\00:11:23.61
and I don't think it's
healthy if a kid asks a question
00:11:23.65\00:11:27.98
about girly things,
00:11:28.02\00:11:30.35
I think they still
need to encourage them
00:11:30.39\00:11:32.59
and influence
them in the same way
00:11:32.62\00:11:35.46
they were trained
to do as a female...
00:11:35.49\00:11:36.99
they encourage him as a male,
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take him out and
buy him boy's clothes
00:11:38.39\00:11:40.56
and encourage them as a boy,
00:11:40.60\00:11:41.93
encourage them in
ways that are not going to
00:11:41.96\00:11:44.70
offend their ideas
00:11:44.73\00:11:47.17
or suggestions that they
might like a "girl" thing.
00:11:47.20\00:11:50.54
Find the creative way
of getting them engaged
00:11:50.57\00:11:54.04
in doing "boy" things.
00:11:54.11\00:11:55.44
I think you can
do that very easily
00:11:55.48\00:11:58.78
if you just sit
back and not think,
00:11:58.81\00:12:01.58
"Oh, I have a transgender kid"
00:12:01.62\00:12:03.22
because that's what
happens with the parents today
00:12:03.25\00:12:05.32
is... there's sort
of this automatic idea
00:12:05.35\00:12:08.79
because a kid says,
00:12:08.82\00:12:10.16
"I like this
dress or I like that. "
00:12:10.23\00:12:11.89
"Oh, I've got a transgender kid"
00:12:11.93\00:12:13.60
it's almost...
like we're manufacturing
00:12:13.63\00:12:15.63
transgender kids today
00:12:15.66\00:12:17.80
faster than
anything I've ever seen.
00:12:17.83\00:12:21.00
So, what I find
interesting is that I think
00:12:21.04\00:12:23.61
the Scriptures really
support that kind of idea
00:12:23.67\00:12:26.14
because... when
it talks about how
00:12:26.17\00:12:27.91
men should not
wear women's clothing
00:12:27.94\00:12:29.68
and women should
not wear men's clothing
00:12:29.71\00:12:31.85
every time that I
was playing "dress up"
00:12:31.91\00:12:34.02
every time that my
aunt would tease my hair
00:12:34.08\00:12:36.38
and fix it to look like
a girl, it was confirming
00:12:36.42\00:12:39.85
this gender dysphoria for me
00:12:39.89\00:12:41.79
because God said in Genesis,
"I made the male and female"
00:12:41.82\00:12:45.13
and one of the things that
He had to tell me even recently
00:12:45.16\00:12:48.40
is that, "No, I didn't make
a mistake... I made you a male"
00:12:48.43\00:12:51.37
and even in Psalm
139 it talks about how
00:12:51.40\00:12:55.47
I knit together your
very inward parts, you know
00:12:55.50\00:12:58.77
the intimate parts of
you, He knew who I was
00:12:58.84\00:13:02.14
and who I was... supposed to be
00:13:02.18\00:13:03.65
so every time that you
are dressed up in that dress,
00:13:03.68\00:13:05.98
every time that I was dressing
up in my mother's clothes,
00:13:06.01\00:13:09.08
I was affirming
my dissatisfaction
00:13:09.12\00:13:11.15
for the sex
that I was born with.
00:13:11.22\00:13:13.36
And so, not only
do you find that...
00:13:13.39\00:13:15.46
that the Scriptures,
I think, support that,
00:13:15.49\00:13:17.86
but now there was something else
00:13:17.89\00:13:19.53
that you were bringing out about
behavior... versus identity
00:13:19.56\00:13:23.06
which to me was shocking.
00:13:23.10\00:13:24.60
Yeah, I think
it's so interesting,
00:13:24.63\00:13:26.60
I've come to the
conclusion after all these years
00:13:26.70\00:13:28.60
that a
transgender is a "behavior"
00:13:28.64\00:13:32.17
it's not an "identity. "
00:13:32.21\00:13:33.54
See... that... this...
this is as eye-opening a concept
00:13:33.58\00:13:40.12
to me as the whole idea
00:13:40.18\00:13:43.02
of LGBT being a
civil rights issue.
00:13:43.05\00:13:47.02
Because once you
frame it a certain way,
00:13:47.06\00:13:50.49
and once you
frame it a certain way,
00:13:50.53\00:13:53.86
then there are certain
suppositions that follow
00:13:53.90\00:13:56.90
and so, what
you're saying is that
00:13:57.00\00:14:00.14
this is not a
"gender" issue so much
00:14:00.17\00:14:03.14
as a "behavior... "
a set of behaviors...
00:14:03.17\00:14:06.34
Walt: That's right.
00:14:06.37\00:14:07.71
Yvonne: Unpack
that some more for us.
00:14:07.74\00:14:09.08
Yeah, well, any time... we
look at the word "behavior"
00:14:09.11\00:14:11.81
and if you look at the LGBT
like... you're talking about,
00:14:11.85\00:14:14.68
you have "a behavior,"
their whole thing collapses
00:14:14.75\00:14:18.02
because they're
basing everything
00:14:18.09\00:14:19.59
on the fact that
they are "born that way,"
00:14:19.62\00:14:20.96
that it's genetic
00:14:20.99\00:14:22.32
and what I'm saying
is it's not genetic,
00:14:22.36\00:14:24.93
I haven't seen any evidence
of it... that it's genetic
00:14:24.96\00:14:27.93
the only thing I've seen is that
00:14:27.96\00:14:30.03
we have pain in a child's life,
00:14:30.07\00:14:32.10
we have events where
they're being crossdressed
00:14:32.13\00:14:34.54
which I think,
crossdressing in of itself...
00:14:34.57\00:14:36.67
is abuse.
00:14:36.71\00:14:38.07
Hmmm...
00:14:38.11\00:14:39.44
And so, when you look
at... some parent will tell me,
00:14:39.47\00:14:42.34
"Well, he's never had any
trauma or anything in his life"
00:14:42.38\00:14:45.25
I said, "Were you
crossdressing him?"
00:14:45.28\00:14:46.72
That's trauma, it's abusive
00:14:46.78\00:14:49.75
and today, we've
come to this place where
00:14:49.78\00:14:53.52
we're accepting the idea
of dressing boys as girls
00:14:53.56\00:14:57.29
and thinking that they're
surviving this whole ideology
00:14:57.33\00:15:01.26
and they're not... and
the best example of that
00:15:01.30\00:15:04.40
was a show that
I saw in Network TV
00:15:04.43\00:15:07.04
where the young boy...
the mother's being interviewed
00:15:07.07\00:15:09.80
and it's a long show
where they're showing the kid
00:15:09.84\00:15:12.54
going to school and
he'd been going to school
00:15:12.57\00:15:14.71
as a girl for
some... three or four years
00:15:14.74\00:15:16.85
and in this one particular shot
00:15:16.88\00:15:19.25
the interviewer is
talking to the mother,
00:15:19.28\00:15:21.68
the mother has the boy
sitting at the dining table
00:15:21.72\00:15:24.22
and mom's combing the hair
and she's talking about how
00:15:24.29\00:15:26.76
they're getting hormone blockers
00:15:26.79\00:15:28.99
and they're doing all
these different things
00:15:29.02\00:15:31.46
and she's like...
what reflected on me was
00:15:31.49\00:15:33.90
the fact that she was acting
much like my grandmother did
00:15:33.93\00:15:36.67
so I really connected with this
00:15:36.73\00:15:38.13
and so she's
combing the child's hair
00:15:38.17\00:15:40.60
and the
interviewer is interviewing mom
00:15:40.64\00:15:42.90
and in this one amazing moment,
the child turns his head back
00:15:42.94\00:15:48.64
and looks at mom and said,
00:15:48.68\00:15:50.75
"Would you love
me if I was a boy?"
00:15:50.81\00:15:53.18
Wow!
00:15:53.21\00:15:56.52
so the child is actually saying,
00:15:56.55\00:16:00.59
"I sense that you
want this for me. "
00:16:00.69\00:16:03.49
Exactly, exactly and
then it began this process
00:16:03.56\00:16:09.46
with the camera rolling
00:16:09.50\00:16:11.23
where mom kind of stepped
back, was a little shocked
00:16:11.27\00:16:13.74
and the boy says,
00:16:13.77\00:16:15.10
"Well, I'm not sure
that I want to be a girl"
00:16:15.14\00:16:17.04
and mom says,
00:16:17.11\00:16:18.94
"Well, I've never
heard this before"
00:16:18.97\00:16:20.78
but I think what's happening
in this particular scene was
00:16:20.81\00:16:24.38
that mom was sort of
pushing this agenda so hard
00:16:24.41\00:16:28.12
and she was wearing it
almost like a badge of honor
00:16:28.15\00:16:31.35
that she has a transgender
kid and she's on television
00:16:31.39\00:16:34.56
showing what she's doing
00:16:34.59\00:16:35.92
not realizing or
not having anyone there
00:16:35.96\00:16:39.06
to suggest that this may
be abusive and not healthy...
00:16:39.09\00:16:42.36
psychologically... for this kid,
00:16:42.40\00:16:44.03
and then the kid
turns around and said,
00:16:44.07\00:16:46.33
"Would you love
me if I was a boy?"
00:16:46.37\00:16:48.64
I mean... I wept...
and I just couldn't believe
00:16:48.67\00:16:53.24
that mom was so
forceful in this in pushing...
00:16:53.27\00:16:57.81
obviously pushing...
00:16:57.85\00:16:59.18
because they
show... during the show
00:16:59.21\00:17:00.65
taking the boy to
get hormone blockers...
00:17:00.75\00:17:03.62
it looked like it was
her agenda and not the boy's.
00:17:03.65\00:17:06.69
That's what it sounds like
00:17:06.72\00:17:08.06
so, tell us some more
about what happened with you.
00:17:08.09\00:17:10.26
How did you... from
the time you were four,
00:17:10.29\00:17:13.73
how did you then deal with life?
00:17:13.76\00:17:18.00
After that seed had
been planted what did you do?
00:17:18.07\00:17:21.17
Yeah, once that
seed was planted...
00:17:21.20\00:17:23.51
and then... the
two-and-a-half years expired
00:17:23.54\00:17:25.94
and I couldn't go
to grandma's anymore,
00:17:25.97\00:17:29.41
I remember,
sometime after that time
00:17:29.44\00:17:31.81
when I couldn't go to grandma's,
00:17:31.85\00:17:34.15
I woke up in the morning
just weeping... crying...
00:17:34.22\00:17:37.99
I'm only seven
years old and I'm crying
00:17:38.02\00:17:40.59
and everybody is
upset, "Why are you crying?"
00:17:40.66\00:17:43.12
And I couldn't even
explain why I was crying
00:17:43.16\00:17:46.53
but something was
deeply broken within me
00:17:46.56\00:17:49.90
and I believe
today as I look back,
00:17:49.93\00:17:52.73
my identity had been broken,
I couldn't figure out who I was
00:17:52.77\00:17:55.94
and in the midst
of this struggle...
00:17:55.97\00:17:59.64
I literally cried
from morning until night,
00:17:59.67\00:18:03.21
here I was... seven years old...
00:18:03.24\00:18:04.85
my parents got fed up
with me and left the house
00:18:04.91\00:18:07.98
and just said, "You stay here,
00:18:08.02\00:18:09.68
we don't even want to
deal with you anymore. "
00:18:09.75\00:18:11.22
They didn't want to deal
with the pain that I was feeling
00:18:11.25\00:18:14.69
and I couldn't explain
where the pain was coming from
00:18:14.72\00:18:17.96
and I think when we see
transgender children today
00:18:17.99\00:18:21.20
who identify in this behavior,
00:18:21.23\00:18:23.97
is that they can't explain
where the pain is coming from,
00:18:24.00\00:18:26.97
they don't have
the whole equipment,
00:18:27.04\00:18:29.27
tools and psychological
ability to know the consequences
00:18:29.30\00:18:33.48
of what's going to
happen down the road.
00:18:33.58\00:18:35.11
So, we're really doing a
great disservice to young people
00:18:35.14\00:18:40.65
to suggest that
they're a different gender
00:18:40.72\00:18:42.65
and then encouraging
them to change genders because
00:18:42.68\00:18:45.75
we don't know the consequences.
00:18:45.79\00:18:47.56
Now they have school
curriculums that are actually
00:18:47.59\00:18:50.63
trying to introduce
this to Kindergarten-age kids
00:18:50.66\00:18:53.63
where... I have a
client that actually
00:18:53.70\00:18:56.00
has a Day Care in a
small town in Tennessee
00:18:56.03\00:18:58.83
and if she wants
Government funding,
00:18:58.87\00:19:01.34
she has to allow the
girls to dress up as boys
00:19:01.37\00:19:04.54
and the boys to
dress up as girls.
00:19:04.57\00:19:05.91
And we're talking about
zero to five-year-old children
00:19:05.94\00:19:08.34
if she wants Government funding.
00:19:08.38\00:19:10.88
Oh my! Mike, your experience
00:19:10.91\00:19:13.31
was kind of similar in
that... you wanted to be a girl,
00:19:13.35\00:19:18.82
tell us a little bit about that.
00:19:18.85\00:19:20.22
Well, for me, it
was Gender Dysphoria
00:19:20.29\00:19:22.72
but it was brought on
basically because of the
00:19:22.76\00:19:24.79
defensive detachment
that I had with my father,
00:19:24.83\00:19:26.83
it didn't come
from my grandmother,
00:19:26.93\00:19:28.53
it was... the fact
that... when I was at that age
00:19:28.56\00:19:31.00
where I was
transitioning to my gender...
00:19:31.03\00:19:33.27
it was my father... and
he... either wasn't available
00:19:33.34\00:19:36.00
because he was in the Navy,
00:19:36.04\00:19:37.41
so he'd be gone for
three to six months at a time,
00:19:37.44\00:19:39.41
so, for a little boy between
the ages of one and three,
00:19:39.44\00:19:42.34
that's almost half my life
but then when my father was home
00:19:42.38\00:19:45.21
he was this
hot-headed abusive Italian,
00:19:45.28\00:19:47.78
he was loud, he was angry
00:19:47.82\00:19:50.09
and so, at that time
when I was transitioning,
00:19:50.12\00:19:52.49
he was frightening to me
and very... it was undesirable,
00:19:52.52\00:19:57.03
his masculinity,
so, in my defense,
00:19:57.06\00:19:59.33
even before I was conscious,
I had detached from my father
00:19:59.36\00:20:01.86
and so the only
example left was my mother
00:20:01.90\00:20:04.13
they talk about how
every little child's identity
00:20:04.17\00:20:06.80
is like wet cement,
00:20:06.84\00:20:08.20
they don't know that
they're male or female
00:20:08.24\00:20:10.47
and so, at this time
when my cement was wet,
00:20:10.51\00:20:12.71
I returned back to
my mother, she was soft,
00:20:12.74\00:20:14.88
I wanted to walk
like her, talk like her,
00:20:14.94\00:20:17.01
and so my cement became
hardened in the feminine,
00:20:17.05\00:20:19.98
and so I didn't know how to
fix it, I was just a little boy,
00:20:20.02\00:20:23.02
but I thought that... I
knew that something was wrong
00:20:23.05\00:20:25.82
the other kids
were calling me names
00:20:25.85\00:20:28.69
and I knew that I
was different than them
00:20:28.72\00:20:30.49
even though I wasn't sexualized
00:20:30.53\00:20:32.29
but for me,
that's where it began.
00:20:32.33\00:20:34.10
You know, what I'm hearing
00:20:34.13\00:20:35.80
is... and what I've heard
from the rest of your team
00:20:35.83\00:20:38.67
in 'Coming Out'
Ministries as well,
00:20:38.70\00:20:40.37
is this brokenness, that
there's some kind of trauma
00:20:40.40\00:20:46.71
that takes place
early... in early childhood,
00:20:46.74\00:20:50.18
that causes this brokenness,
00:20:50.21\00:20:54.08
and where modern
society has gotten off balance
00:20:54.15\00:20:58.95
is they don't use
Jesus as the answer
00:20:58.99\00:21:01.86
everything else is the answer,
00:21:01.89\00:21:03.86
let Johnny dress up like Susie,
00:21:03.93\00:21:05.83
let Susie be
Johnny, let... and... and...
00:21:05.86\00:21:08.96
the real deal is,
well, you brought this up...
00:21:09.00\00:21:13.13
is... behavior
versus gender identity.
00:21:13.17\00:21:17.37
Address the behavior.
00:21:17.41\00:21:19.64
That's exactly right and
00:21:19.67\00:21:21.84
today we're
trying to take a behavior
00:21:21.88\00:21:25.15
and transform a
behavior into an identity
00:21:25.18\00:21:28.42
and as a result of that,
00:21:28.45\00:21:30.65
what people don't seem
to be able to pull together
00:21:30.69\00:21:34.26
like I can, at
least I can see...
00:21:34.29\00:21:37.19
because I
attempted suicide and...
00:21:37.23\00:21:38.99
Yvonne: At what age?
00:21:39.03\00:21:40.76
I was probably
in my early forties,
00:21:40.80\00:21:43.60
I'd been
struggling all this time
00:21:43.63\00:21:46.77
and 39... 40...
somewhere in that...
00:21:46.80\00:21:49.80
I don't remember the exact time
but I tried to commit suicide
00:21:49.84\00:21:52.57
and what we have
with this population is
00:21:52.61\00:21:56.28
they attempt suicide
at a rate above 40 percent
00:21:56.34\00:22:00.45
and the young
people age group...
00:22:00.52\00:22:03.39
this was a study out
of the State of Washington
00:22:03.42\00:22:06.79
and they said the age group
between ten and twenty four
00:22:06.86\00:22:10.23
attempt suicide at the
rate of around fifty percent.
00:22:10.26\00:22:14.36
So, I would ask anybody
who has the ability to think
00:22:14.40\00:22:18.30
and reason a little bit
that this... introducing...
00:22:18.33\00:22:22.24
this behavior to
children is doing such damage
00:22:22.27\00:22:25.37
that they actually
want to attempt suicide
00:22:25.41\00:22:28.44
at some point during
this transition period
00:22:28.48\00:22:30.61
whether it's
early or later in life
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.68
because it's so
destructive to them,
00:22:32.71\00:22:35.22
we've taken away
their core identity
00:22:35.28\00:22:37.25
and told them
they're not who they are.
00:22:37.29\00:22:39.19
Hmmm...
00:22:39.22\00:22:40.56
So when that happened to you
and you... before the forties...
00:22:40.62\00:22:44.46
let's talk about
the teenage years a bit.
00:22:44.49\00:22:46.86
When you were a teenager,
00:22:46.90\00:22:48.20
with whom were you
identifying at that point?
00:22:48.23\00:22:51.07
Were you more...
acting more feminine or
00:22:51.10\00:22:54.60
were you acting masculine,
00:22:54.64\00:22:55.97
where was your
head at that time?
00:22:56.00\00:22:58.07
Well, I was two
sided... within... inside me...
00:22:58.11\00:23:02.24
I had the "girl
in the purple dress"
00:23:02.28\00:23:04.65
and I gave her the
name: Crystal West.
00:23:04.68\00:23:07.02
So she stayed inside
and I presented myself
00:23:07.05\00:23:10.79
as Walt... outside...
and in going to school
00:23:10.82\00:23:14.39
I had girlfriends, I ran track,
00:23:14.42\00:23:16.49
I played in
football, I played basketball,
00:23:16.52\00:23:18.69
I did all the things,
but inside me... was Crystal.
00:23:18.73\00:23:23.67
Yvonne: Were you
attracted to boys?
00:23:23.73\00:23:25.07
Walt: No...
00:23:25.10\00:23:26.43
You were never attracted...
you were never homosexual?
00:23:26.47\00:23:29.07
No, I never had any
homosexual ideas or anything,
00:23:29.10\00:23:33.34
I was strictly heterosexual
00:23:33.38\00:23:35.31
with this "girl" living inside
me that wanted to come out
00:23:35.34\00:23:39.45
but I knew back then the dangers
00:23:39.48\00:23:42.55
and not knowing
myself what it was all about,
00:23:42.58\00:23:46.76
I had to deal with
this solely on my own.
00:23:46.82\00:23:49.89
I mean, it's a long time
ago that I was dealing with this
00:23:49.92\00:23:52.33
this is in the '50s...
00:23:52.36\00:23:54.63
so, I was something
00:23:54.66\00:23:56.90
fairly fresh and new if I
would have "come out" that time.
00:23:56.93\00:24:00.07
Yvonne: You're
looking good Brother.
00:24:00.14\00:24:02.84
Walt: Oh yeah,
you know, thank you,
00:24:02.87\00:24:04.51
I've had a lot of work...
00:24:04.54\00:24:06.14
You know what I
think is interesting though
00:24:06.17\00:24:09.44
is... just because
someone has transgender ideation
00:24:09.51\00:24:13.72
doesn't mean that they're gay
00:24:13.75\00:24:15.08
and I think that a lot of times,
00:24:15.12\00:24:16.45
we put people in
that compartment that
00:24:16.48\00:24:18.05
"Oh, if you're
transgender, then you're gay"
00:24:18.09\00:24:20.16
but Walt, weren't
you sharing with me
00:24:20.19\00:24:22.29
that... there's
actually more transgender
00:24:22.32\00:24:24.43
that are still heterosexual
rather than homosexual.
00:24:24.46\00:24:27.50
You know, it's true,
00:24:27.50\00:24:28.83
the vast
majority of transgenders
00:24:28.86\00:24:30.97
are heterosexual,
they're not homosexual,
00:24:31.00\00:24:33.50
they don't want to be homosexual
00:24:33.54\00:24:34.97
I mean, some of
them will be drag queens
00:24:35.00\00:24:37.41
but they don't really
want to have the full regiment
00:24:37.47\00:24:40.28
of surgery and change
your identity in that way,
00:24:40.34\00:24:43.08
they like to play with it,
00:24:43.11\00:24:44.68
they like to
play the female role
00:24:44.71\00:24:46.48
but they don't
want to become a female.
00:24:46.51\00:24:48.75
Yeah, let's talk about
the surgery for a minute
00:24:48.82\00:24:51.75
because you actually
underwent the surgery,
00:24:51.79\00:24:54.69
what was going on in your head
00:24:54.76\00:24:56.79
just prior to the surgery?
00:24:56.83\00:24:58.99
Yeah, well I... you
know... this whole "pain thing"
00:24:59.03\00:25:02.30
that started when
I was a young child,
00:25:02.33\00:25:04.07
I had carried on...
00:25:04.10\00:25:05.43
by this time when I
was considering surgery,
00:25:05.47\00:25:07.67
I was forty-years old,
00:25:07.70\00:25:09.04
I had gone and struggled
with this for my entire life
00:25:09.07\00:25:13.58
trying to deal with the pain
00:25:13.61\00:25:15.24
and the
confusion about my gender,
00:25:15.28\00:25:17.58
who was I, the abuses,
00:25:17.65\00:25:19.78
and so, I went in
to the psychologist
00:25:19.85\00:25:23.22
who actually wrote the
00:25:23.25\00:25:24.85
"WPATH Standards of Care" for
the treatment of transgenders
00:25:24.89\00:25:28.12
because... I was well enough off
00:25:28.16\00:25:30.46
to be able to
afford somebody like that
00:25:30.53\00:25:32.13
and I went in and I said,
00:25:32.16\00:25:33.50
"What do I need to
do to get rid of this
00:25:33.53\00:25:35.86
whole 'identity thing' that
I have been struggling with?"
00:25:35.90\00:25:38.87
He said, "Well... " he
said, "You are gender dysphoric,
00:25:38.90\00:25:41.84
you need hormone
therapy and you need surgery. "
00:25:41.87\00:25:44.27
And that was in
1981 and still...
00:25:44.31\00:25:48.58
I knew it was true
but it pained me to think
00:25:48.61\00:25:53.18
that that's what I had to
do to get right with myself.
00:25:53.21\00:25:56.79
So I waited two more
years and I went back to him
00:25:56.85\00:25:59.55
and asked him again,
00:25:59.59\00:26:01.19
I said, "Really? I've
been still struggling. "
00:26:01.22\00:26:03.69
By this time I was...
I'd still been married now...
00:26:03.76\00:26:06.03
I'd been married
almost 17 years by this time.
00:26:06.06\00:26:08.13
Yvonne: I was going to ask
you about what was going on
00:26:08.16\00:26:10.27
in your personal life.
00:26:10.30\00:26:11.63
Yeah, I had a good
job and I had a marriage
00:26:11.67\00:26:13.47
that was starting to falter
00:26:13.54\00:26:15.27
because I was struggling
so deeply with the issues
00:26:15.30\00:26:18.51
that just had not been addressed
properly when I was younger.
00:26:18.54\00:26:22.28
Did she know?
Did your wife know?
00:26:22.31\00:26:23.95
Yeah, she knew I was struggling,
it was painful for her
00:26:23.98\00:26:26.65
and painful for me to
continue to try to hide it
00:26:26.72\00:26:30.89
and still be an income
earner with a good job,
00:26:30.92\00:26:34.96
I was an Executive with
a large automobile company
00:26:34.99\00:26:37.83
and so, when he...
I went the second time
00:26:37.86\00:26:41.80
and he said, "Yeah,
this is what you need to do"
00:26:41.83\00:26:43.43
I realized that at that point
I thought and was convinced
00:26:43.47\00:26:47.04
that the surgery would
get rid of all that pain
00:26:47.10\00:26:49.57
that started
when I was a young kid
00:26:49.60\00:26:51.84
and that was the
only way to do it,
00:26:51.87\00:26:54.51
I saw no
alternatives at that time
00:26:54.54\00:26:57.11
that were going to take
away that childhood pain
00:26:57.15\00:27:00.55
and all this difficulty... I'd
had now for 40 years in my life,
00:27:00.58\00:27:04.02
so, I got divorced
and opted for the surgery
00:27:04.05\00:27:08.32
and underwent
the surgery in 1983
00:27:08.36\00:27:11.76
and after the
surgery there was this
00:27:11.79\00:27:15.13
very euphoric kind of exciting,
"I finally made it" thing...
00:27:15.16\00:27:19.70
and it did feel like
there was this great relief
00:27:19.73\00:27:23.81
and the weight of the
world had been lifted off
00:27:23.84\00:27:26.51
I had finally arrived
where I had been wanting to be
00:27:26.54\00:27:29.18
and... and... it was, "good"
00:27:29.21\00:27:31.81
and there I was,
now I was Laura Jensen
00:27:31.85\00:27:36.99
with a whole new identity
00:27:37.02\00:27:38.89
and I went and got
my birth record changed,
00:27:38.92\00:27:41.09
I got all my records changed
00:27:41.12\00:27:42.49
but when I notified
the Automobile Company,
00:27:42.52\00:27:46.36
I was terminated so
I didn't have an income
00:27:46.39\00:27:50.17
and eventually I ended up
homeless and living in a Park
00:27:50.23\00:27:55.47
as a transgender female.
00:27:55.50\00:27:57.07
My! so, you made the
decision to have the surgery
00:27:57.11\00:28:02.51
which... in and of
itself... is huge...
00:28:02.54\00:28:05.45
because that... that's
just huge... right, so...
00:28:05.51\00:28:09.22
Walt: It's huge...
00:28:09.25\00:28:10.62
Yvonne: It's huge, I mean,
it's life changing... literally,
00:28:10.65\00:28:14.02
so, you decided
to have the surgery,
00:28:14.09\00:28:17.56
you have it, you
then have to deal with
00:28:17.59\00:28:21.00
"life as a woman,"
00:28:21.03\00:28:22.70
you have to deal with
being fired from your job,
00:28:22.73\00:28:28.07
the humiliation and
shame attached to that
00:28:28.14\00:28:31.24
and then you end
up losing everything.
00:28:31.31\00:28:34.34
Your home, your status,
and really your identity
00:28:34.38\00:28:38.51
because now you're
living in a new reality.
00:28:38.55\00:28:42.75
Walt: Yeah, it's true.
00:28:42.78\00:28:44.52
How did that...
how did that work?
00:28:44.55\00:28:46.32
Before I ask you that, I
want to go back for a minute,
00:28:46.35\00:28:49.29
to your married life because
00:28:49.32\00:28:53.06
so many questions
arise like, you know,
00:28:53.09\00:28:56.06
in somebody like
me who has no clue
00:28:56.10\00:28:59.03
about the whole lifestyle
00:28:59.07\00:29:01.44
and what goes on... and the pain
00:29:01.50\00:29:03.54
and the angst along with it,
00:29:03.64\00:29:05.07
how did you and your
wife relate to each other
00:29:05.11\00:29:09.78
during that time,
00:29:09.84\00:29:11.18
during that time when you
were battling with this pain
00:29:11.21\00:29:15.92
of "Am I a woman inside?"
00:29:15.95\00:29:18.32
Or "I want Laura Jensen to come
out, but she can't come out"
00:29:18.35\00:29:22.42
how did you and your
wife relate to each other?
00:29:22.46\00:29:24.69
We had a very normal
sex life, relationship...
00:29:24.73\00:29:29.13
it was our life... really...
everybody looked at us...
00:29:29.20\00:29:32.17
it looked like the
perfect little family,
00:29:32.20\00:29:34.84
you know, good
income, nice cars, nice house,
00:29:34.87\00:29:37.21
all that stuff was
there, it was in place,
00:29:37.24\00:29:39.71
the picture was good,
00:29:39.74\00:29:41.28
the pain was in here
that people didn't know about
00:29:41.31\00:29:45.01
and I was getting better
and better about covering it up
00:29:45.05\00:29:48.28
until I started
using more and more alcohol
00:29:48.35\00:29:50.82
and then... that's when
the wheels started coming off
00:29:50.89\00:29:54.29
with the marriage and
my emotions, my struggles
00:29:54.32\00:29:57.76
and the more alcohol I used,
the more difficult things became
00:29:57.79\00:30:01.86
so, once alcohol was
introduced into this thing,
00:30:01.90\00:30:05.37
literally, that's when
things began to collapse.
00:30:05.40\00:30:08.84
Hmmm... so you had, in general,
00:30:08.87\00:30:12.01
a... what seemed to be... a
normal, healthy relationship
00:30:12.04\00:30:17.75
until the alcohol was
introduced and then...
00:30:17.78\00:30:21.55
again... I often talk
about... on Dare to Dream...
00:30:21.58\00:30:25.19
and in Urban
Report, I often talk about
00:30:25.22\00:30:26.92
God's plan...
and Satan's plan...
00:30:26.96\00:30:29.72
and Satan's plan
is to take you down,
00:30:29.76\00:30:32.49
by whatever means
necessary, just take you down,
00:30:32.53\00:30:36.03
and of course, God's plan
00:30:36.06\00:30:37.50
is to elevate you to
the best that you can be
00:30:37.53\00:30:41.64
and so Satan introduces
the alcohol and that...
00:30:41.67\00:30:45.14
on top of all the
pain that you already have
00:30:45.17\00:30:48.58
just ends you up more
broken, now without your family
00:30:48.61\00:30:54.08
because now
you're... and homeless.
00:30:54.15\00:30:55.85
Walt: Right... yeah.
00:30:55.88\00:30:57.79
How did you recover from that?
00:30:57.82\00:31:00.36
How did you go from,
you know, Park Bench,
00:31:00.39\00:31:03.43
to back being
financially solvent?
00:31:03.46\00:31:06.23
Well, that was interesting
because at the time that
00:31:06.26\00:31:09.60
I was living in
the Park, I was...
00:31:09.63\00:31:11.43
my friends know about
this, I had this rabbit fur coat
00:31:11.47\00:31:15.27
that I was wearing that I'd
gotten from a second-hand store
00:31:15.30\00:31:18.34
and I was sleeping...
00:31:18.37\00:31:19.81
and if you can imagine
sleeping on the wet grass...
00:31:19.84\00:31:22.58
in a rabbit fur
coat in a Park...
00:31:22.61\00:31:24.38
Yvonne: Were you attracting
squirrels and rabbits?
00:31:24.45\00:31:28.02
Yeah, yeah, I probably was.
00:31:28.05\00:31:29.38
Yeah, I mean, you know people...
00:31:29.42\00:31:33.92
they stay their distance
because I was sort of...
00:31:33.96\00:31:37.53
here I was... looking
somewhat like a female
00:31:37.59\00:31:40.80
but I was early
in the transition,
00:31:40.86\00:31:43.40
I was obviously
not very healthy,
00:31:43.43\00:31:46.03
I wasn't clean and I remember
00:31:46.10\00:31:48.67
I was struggling
with this alcohol
00:31:48.70\00:31:50.47
and I remembered somebody
a few years prior to that
00:31:50.54\00:31:53.84
that was at the
automobile company
00:31:53.91\00:31:55.44
had said, "If you ever need help
00:31:55.48\00:31:56.98
with your
alcoholism, give me a call. "
00:31:57.01\00:31:58.61
So I got up from the Park and
I went to this little restaurant
00:31:58.68\00:32:02.85
and people started scattering
as I came in the front door
00:32:02.88\00:32:07.66
of the
restaurant, here comes this,
00:32:07.69\00:32:09.02
"whatever this is
in the rabbit fur coat"
00:32:09.06\00:32:10.66
and I started asking
for money so that I could...
00:32:10.73\00:32:14.20
because then...
that was that long ago,
00:32:14.20\00:32:16.10
that you could use
coins to make a phone call
00:32:16.13\00:32:18.47
and I looked her name
up, I got the coins actually,
00:32:18.50\00:32:21.24
one of the waitresses
gave me some of her tip money
00:32:21.27\00:32:24.01
and I called Marilyn and I said,
00:32:24.07\00:32:26.21
"Marilyn, I'm
ready for a meeting"
00:32:26.24\00:32:27.64
And she said, "Where are you?"
00:32:27.68\00:32:29.04
And I told her where I
was, and... so she had a friend
00:32:29.08\00:32:32.38
that was the guy
who went to AAA meetings
00:32:32.41\00:32:36.35
and he came and picked me
up and he took one look at me
00:32:36.38\00:32:39.82
and he brought me to his house
but he put me in the garage
00:32:39.85\00:32:43.22
he left me in the garage,
so, he had a couple of couches
00:32:43.26\00:32:48.86
that he moved out in the
garage and a couple of chairs
00:32:48.90\00:32:51.20
and... I mean... I
was not real appealing
00:32:51.23\00:32:54.30
and I went to my
first AAA meeting with him
00:32:54.34\00:32:57.37
and at that time, you know,
00:32:57.44\00:32:59.67
people hug at AAA meetings
if you've every been to one,
00:32:59.71\00:33:03.11
well, no one hugged me.
Yvonne: Oh, bless your heart.
00:33:03.14\00:33:06.48
Walt: So...
00:33:06.51\00:33:07.85
Were you feeling
rejection at that point?
00:33:07.88\00:33:09.45
What were you feeling?
00:33:09.48\00:33:10.82
Well, I was feeling great
00:33:10.89\00:33:12.22
because I had a
couch to sleep on...
00:33:12.25\00:33:13.86
it's a lot better than
that the grass in the Park
00:33:13.89\00:33:16.93
so I felt like I'd
gone up now, you know...
00:33:16.96\00:33:19.79
I was feeling good
and so, that started...
00:33:19.86\00:33:22.76
sort of the journey
through this process
00:33:22.80\00:33:25.20
that took many,
many years after that.
00:33:25.23\00:33:28.34
Wow! Mike when
you went through...
00:33:28.40\00:33:31.44
you never did the whole...
like gender transformation thing
00:33:31.47\00:33:35.74
or anything but when
you were at your lowest
00:33:35.78\00:33:40.08
what was it that
brought you back up?
00:33:40.12\00:33:43.99
What was it that made you
decide that this is not for me?
00:33:44.05\00:33:47.02
Well, it's interesting,
there's no formula for why
00:33:47.06\00:33:50.39
someone is transgender
nor the cure for that
00:33:50.43\00:33:53.56
the transgenderism was
the worst for me, at puberty,
00:33:53.60\00:33:57.10
when I was 13-years
old, I was in 8th Grade,
00:33:57.13\00:33:59.53
we lived in Detroit, Michigan,
and they had a swimming pool,
00:33:59.57\00:34:02.80
built-in swimming
pool, guys had it one week
00:34:02.84\00:34:05.11
girls had it the
next week, here I am...
00:34:05.14\00:34:07.38
I'm a late bloomer and I
started school when I was five
00:34:07.41\00:34:10.55
so, you know,
everyone else is older than me
00:34:10.58\00:34:12.48
and much more developed,
00:34:12.51\00:34:13.85
and the school policy
was that the boys swam naked
00:34:13.92\00:34:17.39
and so, here we are,
standing on the side of the pool
00:34:17.42\00:34:20.66
doing jumping jacks,
pairing up for sit ups
00:34:20.69\00:34:23.26
and so, when I'm surrounded by
00:34:23.29\00:34:25.19
more feeling of
inadequacy as a male
00:34:25.23\00:34:27.50
and then the fact that you know,
00:34:27.50\00:34:29.60
I'm in a different school,
still being called names,
00:34:29.63\00:34:32.23
still being put down,
00:34:32.27\00:34:33.60
that was the height of
my transgender feelings,
00:34:33.64\00:34:36.34
I grew my hair
out to my shoulders,
00:34:36.37\00:34:38.21
I remember
fantasizing about being a female
00:34:38.24\00:34:41.61
and I think that
for me the worst was
00:34:41.64\00:34:43.75
when I was confronted
with how inadequate I was,
00:34:43.81\00:34:45.98
that it didn't measure up, that
that's when it was the strongest
00:34:46.01\00:34:48.62
what was remarkable is
that it wasn't any grand event
00:34:48.65\00:34:53.22
that actually took the
transgender feelings away
00:34:53.25\00:34:55.62
but when I was 20-years old,
00:34:55.66\00:34:56.99
when I came out
in the Gay culture,
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.56
because I couldn't
find answers in the church,
00:34:58.59\00:35:01.43
I remember that... I
realized that masculinity
00:35:01.46\00:35:04.27
in Gay culture was much
more valuable than femininity
00:35:04.30\00:35:07.04
and so if I just
butchered up a little more
00:35:07.07\00:35:09.14
and start
working out at the gym,
00:35:09.17\00:35:10.51
then I found that I started
to get what I was looking for
00:35:10.54\00:35:13.98
which was male affirmation and
so as I got male affirmation,
00:35:14.01\00:35:17.55
then, I was finally comfortable
with who I was physically
00:35:17.58\00:35:21.12
and my gender and my parts...
00:35:21.15\00:35:24.35
actually made sense and
I found peace with that.
00:35:24.39\00:35:28.76
It's amazing isn't it
how the whole journey,
00:35:28.79\00:35:32.46
it's just like, you
know, you have this phase
00:35:32.49\00:35:35.36
and then this
phase... and then this phase
00:35:35.40\00:35:38.27
and all along God is leading you
00:35:38.30\00:35:41.07
toward Him, He is wooing you,
00:35:41.10\00:35:43.81
the Holy Spirit is wooing you
but you don't even realize it
00:35:43.87\00:35:46.41
how, Walt, did
you find Jesus Christ?
00:35:46.44\00:35:50.71
Well, you know, I
started... I went to church
00:35:50.75\00:35:54.72
while I was at
the Recovery House
00:35:54.75\00:35:57.59
and I was going to
meetings at that time,
00:35:57.62\00:36:00.12
I really needed to go to
church and I went to a church
00:36:00.19\00:36:04.19
and I remember
sitting down with the pastor
00:36:04.26\00:36:07.03
before I went into church
and told him about my life
00:36:07.03\00:36:10.07
because I had gone to a
church some time before that
00:36:10.10\00:36:13.10
and the pastor had told me,
00:36:13.13\00:36:15.00
"We don't want
your kind in our church"
00:36:15.04\00:36:16.64
which was painful but yet it was
interesting when I asked him,
00:36:16.71\00:36:21.48
"Well, what kind do you want?"
you know, we're all broken...
00:36:21.51\00:36:26.18
it's just that my
brokenness is very visible,
00:36:26.21\00:36:29.35
most everybody else's
brokenness is quite hidden.
00:36:29.38\00:36:32.39
Hmmm... hmmm...
hmmm... hmmm... it's true.
00:36:32.42\00:36:35.69
As long as you keep
it hidden, it's okay.
00:36:35.72\00:36:38.79
Right... right...
00:36:38.83\00:36:40.20
But don't put it out
there on Front Street
00:36:40.23\00:36:42.16
so, what he
said really struck me
00:36:42.20\00:36:45.90
and he kind of leaned
back in his big leather chair
00:36:45.93\00:36:48.64
and he said, "No," he said,
00:36:48.67\00:36:50.01
"I'm not going to
try to change you,"
00:36:50.07\00:36:51.54
he said, "My job is to love you
00:36:51.57\00:36:53.34
it's God's job to change you. "
00:36:53.38\00:36:54.98
And that just sunk in
and even though it took years
00:36:55.01\00:36:59.75
after that, I never forgot
what he said to me that day
00:36:59.78\00:37:04.52
because I knew that that moment,
00:37:04.55\00:37:06.45
that God was on a
journey to change me
00:37:06.49\00:37:09.22
I just didn't know how
it was going to come about,
00:37:09.26\00:37:11.69
I knew that my body
had been altered badly,
00:37:11.73\00:37:15.90
and that I'd gone through
a lot of things in my life
00:37:15.93\00:37:18.90
but I knew that
the Lord Jesus Christ
00:37:18.93\00:37:23.14
had the power to
redeem and restore my life
00:37:23.17\00:37:26.51
and I was
getting prepared for that
00:37:26.54\00:37:28.78
and so, I stayed at that church
and they actually encouraged me
00:37:28.81\00:37:33.95
to write a prayer letter
so that the group of people
00:37:34.02\00:37:36.79
could actually... kind of look
at what was going on in my life
00:37:36.82\00:37:40.36
as I wrote it and some of
the early prayer letters were
00:37:40.39\00:37:43.06
very crude and very difficult
00:37:43.09\00:37:46.06
because I was
struggling so deeply
00:37:46.09\00:37:48.43
and I started writing those
prayer letters on a weekly basis
00:37:48.46\00:37:53.23
and then they became
a monthly prayer letter
00:37:53.30\00:37:56.30
and I could see how
in those prayer letters
00:37:56.34\00:37:59.37
that my life was beginning
to transform as I wrote them
00:37:59.41\00:38:02.64
people... I had
these people praying for me
00:38:02.71\00:38:05.45
and so, I eventually was working
through my 12-Step Program
00:38:05.48\00:38:12.59
and I was meeting with
the Counselor, a PhD Counselor
00:38:12.62\00:38:15.59
and we were praying one day
and we got in this prayer time
00:38:15.62\00:38:21.66
and I wasn't much
of a praying person,
00:38:21.70\00:38:23.87
I just... I had a hard
time just praying in silence
00:38:23.90\00:38:27.67
it was tough for me but that day
00:38:27.70\00:38:29.10
I felt really moved to
listen and let him pray
00:38:29.14\00:38:32.94
and he was praying
and during that prayer,
00:38:32.97\00:38:36.75
with my eyes closed... I
could see the Lord Jesus Christ
00:38:36.78\00:38:42.45
coming to me, I
could see His face,
00:38:42.48\00:38:45.99
I could see His robe,
00:38:46.02\00:38:47.36
I could see His
arms reaching out to me
00:38:47.39\00:38:49.89
and at that moment, I
saw myself as a little baby
00:38:49.96\00:38:53.40
wrapped in cloth
and He picked me up
00:38:53.43\00:38:55.66
and held me in
His arms and He said,
00:38:55.70\00:38:57.83
"You will be
safe with me forever"
00:38:57.87\00:39:00.97
and He eventually
disappeared then...
00:39:01.00\00:39:03.94
and I knew at that
moment that He'd come
00:39:03.97\00:39:06.81
to redeem and restore my life
00:39:06.84\00:39:09.21
and I knew that I
was going to be fine
00:39:09.24\00:39:11.08
and from that moment on
00:39:11.11\00:39:13.15
my life completely
was transformed by that
00:39:13.18\00:39:16.48
and interesting enough
00:39:16.55\00:39:18.22
I still write a prayer
letter to the same people
00:39:18.25\00:39:21.46
the ones that are
still there now, every month,
00:39:21.49\00:39:24.66
they still get
to hear the journey
00:39:24.69\00:39:26.49
and that's over 30
years of prayer letters.
00:39:26.53\00:39:29.30
Wow!
00:39:29.33\00:39:30.77
You know, something
that I picked up on that?
00:39:30.80\00:39:32.60
This is the second time
I've heard that, but you said,
00:39:32.67\00:39:35.44
"You'll be safe with me forever"
00:39:35.47\00:39:37.61
and here we think we're talking
about a gender issue when
00:39:37.64\00:39:40.91
was the issue
really for you... Walt,
00:39:40.98\00:39:43.78
"I never felt safe"
00:39:43.85\00:39:45.18
didn't feel safe
with the grandmother,
00:39:45.21\00:39:46.75
didn't feel safe
with your father,
00:39:46.82\00:39:48.65
didn't even feel
safe with yourself,
00:39:48.68\00:39:50.49
I don't know... is
there something to that?
00:39:50.52\00:39:53.46
Sure could be...
00:39:53.49\00:39:54.82
"You are safe with me now. "
00:39:54.86\00:39:56.19
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah...
00:39:56.22\00:39:57.56
I just felt that He had
picked up the child of Walt...
00:39:57.59\00:40:00.00
and pulled him
back in and redeemed him
00:40:00.03\00:40:02.60
and restored me and I
can go on to live my life
00:40:02.66\00:40:04.67
like I do today...
serving Jesus Christ
00:40:04.70\00:40:07.54
and speaking
about His transformation
00:40:07.60\00:40:10.37
and His power in my life.
00:40:10.41\00:40:11.81
Yvonne: Yes, as
Walt... Walt: as Walt...
00:40:11.84\00:40:13.84
Yvonne: no more
Laura... Walt: No more Laura...
00:40:13.88\00:40:15.78
Praise God, so
from that moment on,
00:40:15.81\00:40:17.68
that was the end of Laura?
00:40:17.71\00:40:19.05
Was that the end?
00:40:19.08\00:40:20.42
It began... it wasn't
like that, snaps finger...
00:40:20.48\00:40:23.75
it wasn't like
flipping a switch off,
00:40:23.79\00:40:25.49
but you could see
the incremental changes
00:40:25.52\00:40:27.76
as I went through the process
00:40:27.79\00:40:29.26
and began to stop
"behaving" like Laura.
00:40:29.29\00:40:34.96
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:40:35.00\00:40:36.33
I had become the man
that God had created me to be.
00:40:36.36\00:40:38.40
So there was a
process to become Laura,
00:40:38.43\00:40:41.47
there was a process of
deconstructing a behavior
00:40:41.50\00:40:45.77
of being transgender and
once that behavior is over,
00:40:45.81\00:40:49.71
that's when you realize...
you really have everything.
00:40:49.74\00:40:53.45
You really have got it and
you're really living the life...
00:40:53.48\00:40:57.25
I mean, today,
I'm sober 30 years,
00:40:57.32\00:40:59.69
I'm married almost 19 years
00:40:59.72\00:41:02.02
you talk about
redemption and restoration
00:41:02.06\00:41:04.79
He gave it to me that
day when He picked me up.
00:41:04.83\00:41:07.50
Yvonne: Amen,
yes, yes, how beautiful
00:41:07.50\00:41:09.86
and that's what He came to do.
00:41:09.90\00:41:11.83
To give us life and
life more abundantly.
00:41:11.87\00:41:14.90
That's what He
promises and you two...
00:41:14.94\00:41:17.94
are both... examples of that
00:41:17.97\00:41:20.58
because as I talked to you all
00:41:20.64\00:41:23.11
and as I've talked
to Mike over the years
00:41:23.18\00:41:25.88
and the 'Coming
Out' Ministries' Team
00:41:25.91\00:41:28.55
whom I love... like...
I just feel like God is...
00:41:28.58\00:41:31.62
He's in the restoration business
00:41:31.65\00:41:33.52
that's what He
does with all of us
00:41:33.56\00:41:35.29
we all have our issues
no one needs to look at you
00:41:35.32\00:41:39.46
or you or anybody, or me...
00:41:39.49\00:41:41.80
or anybody else and say, "Well,
you're this or you're that"
00:41:41.83\00:41:44.47
No... yeah, I'm this or that...
00:41:44.50\00:41:46.30
and you're this or
that... we all have issues
00:41:46.33\00:41:49.20
that's why we're all
sinners in need of a Savior
00:41:49.24\00:41:52.04
and that's why Jesus Christ came
00:41:52.07\00:41:53.51
so He has restored you,
He's given you a whole new life
00:41:53.54\00:41:59.81
with a whole new
identity, you are now... Walt...
00:41:59.85\00:42:02.85
without looking
back at "Laura. "
00:42:02.88\00:42:06.62
So, how do people
in the LGBT Community
00:42:06.65\00:42:11.96
look at you... because
you are the exact opposite
00:42:11.99\00:42:16.87
of what they're promoting
and I want to talk a bit about
00:42:16.93\00:42:19.37
that whole "promotion
thing" because I think
00:42:19.40\00:42:22.17
what's happening
in Society now is that
00:42:22.20\00:42:25.11
this Movement is being promoted
as something that should be...
00:42:25.14\00:42:31.61
should be exalted,
should be glorified
00:42:31.65\00:42:34.45
and we're not
supposed to call it sin
00:42:34.48\00:42:37.25
because in so doing...
we're not politically correct,
00:42:37.29\00:42:40.22
we're not... so...
let's talk a bit about
00:42:40.32\00:42:42.12
promoting this agenda.
00:42:42.16\00:42:43.99
Well, yeah, they've
done an outstanding job
00:42:44.03\00:42:46.56
of selling the Nation... in
fact, almost the entire world
00:42:46.59\00:42:50.30
that a "behavior" is
an "identity" and as such
00:42:50.33\00:42:55.47
they've gone and passed
laws to protect this behavior
00:42:55.50\00:42:59.37
and they've allowed
people to go into restrooms
00:42:59.41\00:43:01.58
and we're seeing all this...
00:43:01.61\00:43:03.24
which is so damaging to
the individual themselves
00:43:03.28\00:43:07.45
as well as the Nation,
so, they've done a great job
00:43:07.52\00:43:11.52
of confusing us about who we are
00:43:11.59\00:43:14.06
and now, it wasn't too
long ago they came out with
00:43:14.09\00:43:16.86
50-some different genders...
00:43:16.93\00:43:18.46
Yvonne: Wait... what?
00:43:18.49\00:43:21.20
Yes, they came out and
said, Facebook came out...
00:43:21.23\00:43:23.63
because the LGBT came out
00:43:23.67\00:43:25.50
with this whole gender spectrum
00:43:25.53\00:43:27.74
of some 46 to 50
different genders
00:43:27.77\00:43:29.97
so what they're trying to do is
00:43:30.01\00:43:32.44
completely... the real
agenda... is to eradicate gender
00:43:32.47\00:43:37.51
once they eradicate gender,
then they can eradicate marriage
00:43:37.55\00:43:42.62
because... no longer...
gender, no man... no woman...
00:43:42.65\00:43:45.69
they're trying to take men
and women off the bathroom doors
00:43:45.72\00:43:49.06
and just have
them all be the same,
00:43:49.09\00:43:52.59
so once you
completely destroy gender,
00:43:52.63\00:43:56.00
you can destroy the
family, you can destroy identity
00:43:56.06\00:43:59.67
and you have this
horrible mess of people
00:43:59.70\00:44:05.91
not knowing who they are
00:44:05.94\00:44:07.28
and this... in my view...
00:44:07.31\00:44:09.21
is why we see so
many of these young people
00:44:09.24\00:44:12.21
and older people who
have transitioned now
00:44:12.25\00:44:14.95
attempting suicide
at such high rates.
00:44:14.98\00:44:17.59
They don't know who they are,
they don't know where to turn,
00:44:17.62\00:44:19.89
they have no foundation in
which... to live their life.
00:44:19.92\00:44:24.93
In Jesus Christ,
we know who we are,
00:44:24.96\00:44:28.16
it's says, "we're born a
man... we're born woman...
00:44:28.20\00:44:30.83
we are to join in marriage as
man and woman and be a family"
00:44:30.87\00:44:35.00
you know, when
you break that apart,
00:44:35.04\00:44:36.97
you've got pieces scattered all
over the place like we do today.
00:44:37.01\00:44:40.64
Hmmm... hmmm... hmmmm... hmmm...
00:44:40.68\00:44:42.38
I think it fits, again, with
the times that we're living in,
00:44:42.41\00:44:44.48
it talks about
how... in the Garden of Eden
00:44:44.55\00:44:47.28
before sin even
entered the world,
00:44:47.38\00:44:49.02
that marriage was
one of the institutions
00:44:49.05\00:44:51.29
that was established
by God in a perfect world
00:44:51.35\00:44:53.72
and now, all of
a sudden, it's...
00:44:53.76\00:44:55.79
marriage is under attack too...
not only is it sexual identity,
00:44:55.82\00:44:59.16
maybe the
cloaking issue but really
00:44:59.19\00:45:02.03
the undermining issue
is the fact that the enemy,
00:45:02.06\00:45:04.83
Satan is out to
destroy marriage...
00:45:04.87\00:45:06.74
one of the institutions
that God had ordained in Eden.
00:45:06.77\00:45:10.41
At creation...
the two institutions
00:45:10.44\00:45:12.57
that He... that God ordained
00:45:12.61\00:45:14.41
they're under
attack... marriage and Sabbath.
00:45:14.44\00:45:17.05
And that's a very
interesting phenomenon to me
00:45:17.08\00:45:19.68
that Satan wants
to destroy the things
00:45:19.71\00:45:23.89
that God has established,
that's his whole deal.
00:45:23.92\00:45:27.26
You're right, we
shouldn't forget the foundation
00:45:27.29\00:45:30.53
of marriage, is
it not... gender?
00:45:30.56\00:45:33.06
And, wait... wait Walt,
00:45:33.09\00:45:35.86
the foundation of marriage
00:45:35.90\00:45:38.63
was the complete
expression of who God was.
00:45:38.67\00:45:41.27
Remember it wasn't
until after He created Eve
00:45:41.30\00:45:43.67
that He stood back and He said,
00:45:43.71\00:45:45.04
"This is the
express image of who I am"
00:45:45.07\00:45:47.88
the relationship
between one man and one woman.
00:45:47.91\00:45:51.05
Wow, yeah...
that's very, very deep.
00:45:51.08\00:45:56.02
So, you... you...
00:45:56.05\00:45:59.35
without necessarily
naming the Networks...
00:45:59.39\00:46:01.66
but you've been
invited to different Networks,
00:46:01.69\00:46:04.26
tell us about
how that played out.
00:46:04.29\00:46:06.73
Mike: The Limo ride...
00:46:06.76\00:46:08.06
Yvonne: Yeah, tell
us about the Limo ride.
00:46:08.10\00:46:10.77
Well, I've been
invited to be on many TV shows
00:46:10.80\00:46:13.34
and... they...
they... all they know is
00:46:13.37\00:46:16.50
I'm a transgender, apparently,
00:46:16.54\00:46:17.87
and they get me in the Limo,
they schedule me to be on...
00:46:17.91\00:46:20.28
they get me in the Limo...
I'm headed down to the Station
00:46:20.31\00:46:23.65
and then they find
out that I'm not somebody
00:46:23.68\00:46:26.35
who's an LGBT
Advocate... that I'm not...
00:46:26.38\00:46:28.98
I don't believe this
behavior should be an identity
00:46:29.05\00:46:32.19
and so, I'll get a
call... one time I was
00:46:32.22\00:46:35.29
could see the Station
where I was supposed go
00:46:35.32\00:46:38.33
to be on at 6:00 in the morning,
00:46:38.36\00:46:39.69
I got up at 4:00...
got a Limo ride at 5:00
00:46:39.73\00:46:41.70
and I was there before 6:00,
00:46:41.73\00:46:43.13
the Producer called me and
said, "No, no, no, you can't...
00:46:43.16\00:46:46.03
you have to tell them
to turn the car around
00:46:46.07\00:46:47.90
and go back home and
take you back home. "
00:46:47.94\00:46:49.87
That's happened... many times...
00:46:49.90\00:46:51.57
so, they want to make sure
they keep things squeaky clean
00:46:51.61\00:46:57.98
on television and they
don't want people like me...
00:46:58.01\00:47:01.68
coming out and
suggesting that a "behavior" now
00:47:01.72\00:47:05.22
has become an "identity"
and that if it's a behavior,
00:47:05.25\00:47:09.62
which I believe it is
from my own experience
00:47:09.69\00:47:11.86
and from the thousands
of people that I get...
00:47:11.89\00:47:14.00
that have come to my website
for the last ten years...
00:47:14.03\00:47:16.87
And what is your website?
00:47:16.90\00:47:18.60
It's called:
sexchangeregret. com
00:47:18.67\00:47:21.67
and: atransgendersfaith. com
00:47:21.70\00:47:25.31
Yvonne: You have two?
00:47:25.34\00:47:26.68
I have two, yeah.
00:47:26.71\00:47:28.04
Yvonne: Say it again, and
we'll have it up on the screen.
00:47:28.08\00:47:30.25
Yeah, so, sexchangeregret. com
00:47:30.28\00:47:32.58
and: atransgendersfaith. com
00:47:32.61\00:47:34.88
and so... people
come to these websites
00:47:34.92\00:47:37.75
and they find things
that they've never heard
00:47:37.79\00:47:39.95
because they don't allow me
on television to talk about it.
00:47:39.99\00:47:42.82
Right, so, it's new
information and it's...
00:47:42.86\00:47:46.33
What I have found
is like... last year,
00:47:46.36\00:47:49.76
the website:
sexchangeregret. com
00:47:49.80\00:47:51.23
got over 350,000 visits
00:47:51.27\00:47:53.74
and last year I was seen
on media around the world
00:47:53.80\00:47:58.51
by over 300 million people
00:47:58.54\00:48:00.64
so, I'm able to
get the message out
00:48:00.71\00:48:02.98
in every place
outside of the U.S.
00:48:03.01\00:48:06.48
But the US does
not want your message
00:48:06.51\00:48:09.92
to be promoted... because
it goes against the agenda.
00:48:09.95\00:48:14.19
It's not politically
correct to speak the way I speak
00:48:14.22\00:48:18.33
because I look at
the letters of regret
00:48:18.36\00:48:21.66
that I get from people
whose lives, just like mine,
00:48:21.70\00:48:25.13
have been totally
damaged by the surgery,
00:48:25.17\00:48:27.24
totally damaged by a behavior
00:48:27.27\00:48:29.64
that someone told him was
an identity... and it wasn't,
00:48:29.67\00:48:32.97
and they write me and
say, "Now, what do I do?
00:48:33.01\00:48:34.94
I'm ten or fifteen
years down the road
00:48:34.98\00:48:37.71
and I don't know how
to come back, and... "
00:48:37.75\00:48:40.02
Yvonne: Are these
people who've had the surgery?
00:48:40.12\00:48:43.59
Yes, yes, I get them
frequently and I get people
00:48:43.62\00:48:46.96
who are near the edge,
or have gone through it
00:48:46.99\00:48:50.06
or want help, I get
those letters every day.
00:48:50.13\00:48:53.13
And so, when you get a pastor
that comes to you and says,
00:48:53.16\00:49:00.90
"How do I deal
with this in my church?
00:49:00.97\00:49:03.84
Like... what... what do you say,
00:49:03.87\00:49:05.84
how do you love the
transgendered person
00:49:05.87\00:49:10.58
without
reinforcing the behavior?"
00:49:10.61\00:49:12.45
Yeah, that's a
great question, you know,
00:49:12.48\00:49:14.75
one of the things
that's so important,
00:49:14.78\00:49:16.82
from what we've
talked about today,
00:49:16.85\00:49:18.82
is we know... that the
people who are acting out
00:49:18.85\00:49:21.72
in this transgender
behavior, are hurting...
00:49:21.76\00:49:24.43
they've been
injured, they've been damaged,
00:49:24.49\00:49:26.93
they've had something
go wrong in their life,
00:49:26.96\00:49:29.76
and as such, if
we're going to help them,
00:49:29.80\00:49:32.33
we need to sit
down and listen to them,
00:49:32.40\00:49:34.87
we don't need to sort of support
or encourage their behavior,
00:49:34.90\00:49:40.68
what we do need
to do is find out
00:49:40.71\00:49:43.01
why they came to this conclusion
00:49:43.04\00:49:45.31
that they were a
different gender, what happened?
00:49:45.35\00:49:47.12
I want to sit
down with the people,
00:49:47.15\00:49:48.65
like I have done... I
have sat across and said,
00:49:48.68\00:49:50.62
"What happened?"
"When did this start?"
00:49:50.69\00:49:53.12
"When did you
first get this feeling?"
00:49:53.15\00:49:55.22
"What type of relationship
do you have with your father?"
00:49:55.26\00:49:58.03
"What type of relationship
do you have with your mother?"
00:49:58.06\00:50:00.80
And, were they in a
Foster home that was abusive?
00:50:00.83\00:50:04.77
Were they abused by a neighbor?
What... did something...
00:50:04.80\00:50:07.60
Because, I have found
100 percent of the time,
00:50:07.64\00:50:10.11
my wife and I
laugh about this now,
00:50:10.17\00:50:11.81
when they write me and say,
"Well, the home life was fine"
00:50:11.84\00:50:14.61
and then I ask, five
or ten good questions
00:50:14.64\00:50:17.01
and they write
back... and you see...
00:50:17.05\00:50:18.38
that it was a total disaster.
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:18.41\00:50:21.68
So, we do have... if
we're going to be helping
00:50:21.72\00:50:24.99
people in a church, we
have to sit down with them
00:50:25.02\00:50:28.29
and get to know
what's causing them to hurt
00:50:28.32\00:50:32.36
and many of them, we know
00:50:32.39\00:50:33.76
62.7 percent of them
00:50:33.80\00:50:36.30
according to
studies, are suffering from
00:50:36.33\00:50:38.03
Axis 1:
psychological and psychiatric...
00:50:38.07\00:50:40.70
called "Comorbid disorders. "
00:50:40.77\00:50:42.80
Gender Dysphoria, by itself,
00:50:42.84\00:50:44.81
is the way they
diagnose the condition
00:50:44.87\00:50:47.88
but under Gender Dysphoria,
00:50:47.91\00:50:49.58
is a comorbid
disorder like, Dissociation
00:50:49.64\00:50:52.85
or Bi-Polar
disorders or Schizophrenia
00:50:52.88\00:50:56.02
or Separation Anxiety,
all these different disorders
00:50:56.05\00:51:00.29
that are never diagnosed
by the attending physicians
00:51:00.36\00:51:03.73
who work with transgenders,
they just overlook it
00:51:03.76\00:51:07.10
and offer them hormones
00:51:07.20\00:51:08.60
and send them on the
road to having surgery
00:51:08.63\00:51:11.60
when in fact they're
suffering from psychological
00:51:11.63\00:51:14.50
and psychiatric issues
00:51:14.54\00:51:16.24
if properly treated...
00:51:16.30\00:51:17.94
would alleviate the
desire to change genders.
00:51:17.97\00:51:20.34
Mike: Exactly.
00:51:20.38\00:51:21.71
That's so... that is so deep,
00:51:21.74\00:51:25.15
so the label of Gender Dysphoria
is really like the Band-Aid
00:51:25.18\00:51:31.45
that's covering the real
issue, the real disorders
00:51:31.49\00:51:36.56
that you mentioned.
00:51:36.59\00:51:38.19
What I identified... is the
yellow flag signaling caution,
00:51:38.23\00:51:42.40
there's something
wrong. Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:51:42.46\00:51:43.80
And... because that is not...
00:51:43.83\00:51:46.77
we shouldn't be
embracing Gender Dysphoria
00:51:46.80\00:51:49.44
because... it is
nothing but a behavior
00:51:49.47\00:51:52.07
to tell us that
something is hurting them
00:51:52.11\00:51:54.68
and they don't
want to be who they are
00:51:54.71\00:51:56.78
so they're now attempting
00:51:56.81\00:51:59.01
to become someone who
they can never really be.
00:51:59.05\00:52:01.35
Wow! that is incredible,
you want to say something, Mike?
00:52:01.38\00:52:05.72
Well, just... well imagine
00:52:05.75\00:52:07.16
what that would have been
for me if all of a sudden...
00:52:07.19\00:52:09.02
now they have
laws to protect kids
00:52:09.06\00:52:11.03
that are transgender
to have that sex change
00:52:11.06\00:52:13.70
so if I was 20-years
old and then realized
00:52:13.73\00:52:16.20
that I was okay as a male,
00:52:16.23\00:52:18.00
only now, I've mutilated
my body to resemble a female,
00:52:18.03\00:52:21.10
imagine how
much more complicated
00:52:21.14\00:52:22.97
my issues would have been.
00:52:23.04\00:52:24.37
Absolutely, I mean, it's...
it's just kind of incredible
00:52:24.41\00:52:28.84
that... that... what
we're doing as a Society,
00:52:28.88\00:52:32.88
is to really
make... make it all worse
00:52:32.95\00:52:36.32
instead of
addressing the underlying issues
00:52:36.35\00:52:39.62
we're addressing...
there's a manifest issue
00:52:39.65\00:52:42.66
and a latent issue
00:52:42.69\00:52:44.03
and we're
addressing the manifest
00:52:44.09\00:52:45.43
without really
dealing with the latent issue.
00:52:45.46\00:52:47.86
We're dealing with the
symptom and not the problem.
00:52:47.93\00:52:49.66
Yvonne: Right.
00:52:49.70\00:52:51.03
And that is only a symptom
00:52:51.07\00:52:52.73
and I've had
people write me a letter
00:52:52.77\00:52:55.24
and... an e-mail...
00:52:55.27\00:52:56.64
and I would have left
church one time and got home,
00:52:56.67\00:52:59.17
looked at my e-mail and
here's a letter from a guy
00:52:59.21\00:53:01.84
which says, "Please
write me as soon as possible,
00:53:01.91\00:53:04.45
I'm going down to the store
00:53:04.48\00:53:05.88
to buy a gun and
blow my brains out. "
00:53:05.91\00:53:07.62
Three years post surgery,
00:53:07.65\00:53:09.35
he was the same age I
was when he had surgery,
00:53:09.42\00:53:12.99
he was a pilot making
200,000 dollars a year,
00:53:13.02\00:53:16.59
and he went through the surgery
00:53:16.62\00:53:18.86
now he is without a
job, he's struggling
00:53:18.89\00:53:22.43
and wants to commit suicide.
00:53:22.50\00:53:24.03
I worked with
him over 250 e-mails,
00:53:24.07\00:53:27.00
phone calls, and
encouraging him...
00:53:27.04\00:53:29.97
he's alive today,
he's back in being a pilot
00:53:30.01\00:53:33.34
and he's back being a man.
00:53:33.38\00:53:34.78
Mike: Amen.
Yvonne: Praise the Lord.
00:53:34.81\00:53:37.21
What a blessing...
what a blessing it is
00:53:37.25\00:53:39.88
to have you
working with those...
00:53:39.91\00:53:42.35
you've been
through the experience
00:53:42.38\00:53:44.75
the whole experience
including the surgery
00:53:44.79\00:53:48.62
and you're helping people
00:53:48.66\00:53:51.26
who've been
there, what a blessing!
00:53:51.29\00:53:53.26
Mike, I need to get
your website information
00:53:53.36\00:53:56.36
before we close too
00:53:56.40\00:53:57.73
so that people
know how to contact you
00:53:57.77\00:53:59.27
in 'Coming Out' Ministries.
00:53:59.33\00:54:00.74
Sure, it's:
comingoutministries. org
00:54:00.77\00:54:04.84
That's it,
comingoutministries. org
00:54:04.87\00:54:09.14
we have 30 seconds,
00:54:09.18\00:54:11.51
can you just give a
closing thought, Walt,
00:54:11.55\00:54:14.58
to somebody who is
going through that situation,
00:54:14.62\00:54:18.85
just 30 seconds.
00:54:18.89\00:54:20.36
Just understand that
the people are hurting
00:54:20.39\00:54:23.19
and that are
struggling with this
00:54:23.22\00:54:25.46
and try to find out
what it is that caused them
00:54:25.49\00:54:28.50
to have such pain
that they don't want to be
00:54:28.53\00:54:31.17
who they are and
now they're attempting
00:54:31.20\00:54:33.70
to become someone
who they can never be
00:54:33.74\00:54:35.84
because it's
categorically impossible
00:54:35.87\00:54:37.94
to surgically,
biologically, change someone
00:54:37.97\00:54:41.71
from one gender to the
other, it's not possible.
00:54:41.74\00:54:44.21
They are still... if
they were born male...
00:54:44.25\00:54:48.42
they're still male... correct?
00:54:48.45\00:54:50.35
Thank you so much for
being with us... both of you,
00:54:50.39\00:54:53.05
thank you Mike, thank you Walt,
00:54:53.09\00:54:55.09
thank you so much for
sharing this information with us
00:54:55.12\00:54:58.93
and thank you so
much for joining us.
00:54:58.96\00:55:01.13
This has been an
amazing blessing, God bless you.
00:55:01.16\00:55:04.27
Walt: Thank you.
Mike: Thank you very much.
00:55:04.30\00:55:06.10
Wooooo, was that
powerful or what?
00:55:06.13\00:55:11.14
God transforms
00:55:11.17\00:55:13.14
and we can be
grateful for His Holy Spirit
00:55:13.17\00:55:15.51
who gives us new and
true identities in Christ.
00:55:15.54\00:55:19.45
At Dare to Dream,
00:55:19.48\00:55:20.82
we appreciate your
prayers and support
00:55:20.85\00:55:23.25
and we welcome your love gifts
00:55:23.28\00:55:25.42
so please ask the Holy
Spirit how much you should give
00:55:25.45\00:55:29.59
and then send your
tax-deductible love gifts to:
00:55:29.66\00:55:34.93
Dare to Dream, PO Box
220, West Frankfort, IL 62896
00:55:34.96\00:55:40.30
and the phone number,
if you choose to call us
00:55:40.34\00:55:43.24
is 618-627-4651
00:55:43.27\00:55:47.81
that's 618-627-4651
00:55:47.84\00:55:52.31
or go to our
website at: D2DNetwork. tv
00:55:52.35\00:55:57.85
D2DNetwork. tv
00:55:57.89\00:56:00.59
we're also on Facebook
00:56:00.69\00:56:02.52
we want you to
"Like" us on Facebook
00:56:02.56\00:56:04.59
and if you have
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00:56:04.63\00:56:08.30
send us ideas or if
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00:56:08.33\00:56:11.30
about how Dare to
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00:56:11.37\00:56:14.94
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00:56:14.97\00:56:18.24
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00:56:18.27\00:56:19.67
saying how Dare to
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00:56:19.71\00:56:22.54
It's really important to us
00:56:22.61\00:56:24.25
that the programs
that we are producing here
00:56:24.28\00:56:27.82
are a blessing to you.
00:56:27.85\00:56:29.25
We pray that your hearts
are being turned to the Lord
00:56:29.28\00:56:32.65
because that's
why we're doing this.
00:56:32.69\00:56:34.92
That's the whole
purpose behind it
00:56:34.96\00:56:37.13
because we want to
share Jesus with the world.
00:56:37.16\00:56:40.03
Well, thanks for joining us,
00:56:40.10\00:56:42.40
join us next time
because you know what?
00:56:42.43\00:56:45.00
It just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:56:45.03\00:56:47.60