Is the Book of
Revelation a puzzle to you?
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Well, stay tuned to
meet some men that...
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under the unction
of the Holy Spirit
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can connect the dots for you.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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Our guests today are
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Pastors James
Rafferty and Ivor Myers,
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Co-hosts of Dare to
Dream's new prophecy program,
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Salvation in Symbols and Signs.
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Jason and I were
both on the program
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and we had a chance to
talk to these great pastors.
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Take a look.
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It is so great to be on the Set
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of Salvation in
Symbols and Signs,
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Jason and I are not
only on the Set right now
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but we are also on the program
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and we can't wait
for you to see it.
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Jay, tell us about
our guests... our Hosts.
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Oh, we have... Pastor Ivor Myers
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and we have
Pastor James Rafferty
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who are both
very, very knowledgeable
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in terms of
Revelation and Prophecy
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and all of that,
we've been learning a lot...
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a lot on that program.
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One of the things that
I love about this program,
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is, it is so
basic, like I spent...
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I have spent years,
you guys, just... like...
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I've read Revelation...
I've read it more than one time
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and every time I
read it, you know,
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it's just like zig
zag, it's never connected
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but tell us what is
your view of this program?
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Let's start with Pastor Rafferty
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because he's hosting the
program and just... well...
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you guys are kind of Co-hosting,
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you look like our Primary
Facilitator here, would you...
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give us like an idea as to
what this program is about.
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Well, first of all,
it's a lifelong dream
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so, this program... we've talked
about it for years actually
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and it's actually
now come to fruition
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and we are just
realizing something
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that has been in
the back of my mind...
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and I think as I've talked to
Ivor... in the back of his mind
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concerning the
book of Revelation...
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a different
approach... not different from
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what it always has been
and really should have been,
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but different from the
way we've approached it,
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perhaps, regularly in
our denominational history,
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the focus of the book
of Revelation, is Jesus.
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Yvonne: Hmmm...
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It's the
revelation of Jesus Christ
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and it is a love story,
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and so, we have a
completely different approach
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we have the opportunity here to
present the Book of Revelation
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in a way that perhaps
has not been presented
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in the history of
our church because
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we're living in a
time and an age, I believe,
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where this book is coming
alive as it never has before,
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we're living in the time
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where there have been
predictions made to us,
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personally, as a
church, about this book...
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a time when we will see forces
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starting an action
that cannot be repressed,
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a time when we will
have a better understanding
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of the books of
Revelation and Daniel
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but will cause our characters
to be impressed with... with...
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with the beauty of Jesus Christ,
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a time when we
want to see these books
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bringing
together the entire Bible,
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the book of Revelation is going
to bring the Bible together
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so that in the
book of Revelation,
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all the Bibles begin
and end. Hmmm... Hmmm.
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And that has been the
basis for our approach.
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So that when we look at symbols,
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when we look at little phrases,
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when we look at
the story of Revelation
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we're going back
into the Bible and saying,
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"Now how does this connect
to the rest of the story?"
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Now typically, where do
you see people start with...
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when they start
talking about Revelation,
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where do you see them start at?
Is it Revelation chapter 13...
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do they start with
the beast and all that
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but, what you're saying is true
and we're starting with Jesus
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which... and... it's
been phrased as a love story
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termed as a love story
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which is a whole 'nother
perspective because I mean...
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the book of Revelation
can be quite intimidating
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Rafferty: Hmmm...
hmmm... and scary...
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Yes, yes...
depending on how it's...
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how it's
depicted... but... yes...
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but, this is a
much lighter approach,
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and its... I must say, it's
been very, very interesting.
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And it's an approach
that's true to the Bible.
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It has been a long time
coming, I've wanted to do...
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for Dare to Dream... a
program like this on Revelation
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for a long time
and we talked about it,
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you and Danny
had talked about it,
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because he told me that he
had talked about it with you
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"... and you should get
James Rafferty to do a program"
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and then we had Pastor
Perg, Pastor Pergerson...
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who was going to be
a part of this program
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and tell us what
happened with Pastor Perg?
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Pastor Perg and I met...
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some people had been telling me
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"You got to meet this
guy, you got to meet this guy,
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he's an evangelist
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but he's just really
on fire for the gospel
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and he's
bringing the gospels... "
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when we think of evangelism,
we think of Revelation...
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Daniel and Revelation...
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but he's really on
fire for the gospel
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he's bringing the gospel
into his series... and I thought
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"Well, that's my burden,
and that's what I want...
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I want to get the gospel
into the book of Revelation,
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it's there and I
want to bring it out... "
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so we met and
we just hit it off,
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I mean, I went
and did some meetings
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in an area where he was...
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we were together doing
this series of meetings
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in this church... and we
were like long-lost brothers
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and it was very
similar, I have to say to...
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the first time that I met Ivor.
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It was just
like... we connected...
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we were just in the same room,
we were just in the same space
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we were doing meetings together
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and what he was
saying... I was saying
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and what I was
saying... he was saying
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and it was
just... boom... natural...
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so, then I thought, you know,
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we had experimented at
the ministry I work with,
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Light Bearers Ministry
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with kind of a
table-type discussion
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rather than a
preaching-type discussion
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and I thought,
"Wow! Pastor Perg...
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it would be good if
we can work together,"
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so I brought up the
name, we met together
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at... was it GC...
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last year... 2015...
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and we started making plans
for this, we were just like,
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"Ah yes, finally, after
years, this is going to happen
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and we can have a few
people sitting at the table
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and we can just start discussing
the Book of Revelation"
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and
unfortunately, Pastor Perg...
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from that time that we met
in July of 2015... until now...
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was involved in an
accident that took his life...
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prematurely took his
life. Hmmm... hmmm...
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It was an airplane accident...
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he was actually in
the middle of planning
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a series of meetings in Michigan
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and he was also a pilot so
he was flying his own Kit plane
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and there were some
issues that took place
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as he was trying to land
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and the plane exploded
on landing and took his life
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and I was devastated...
I was just like, "Oh... "
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and I thought
primarily about him,
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primarily about his family and
secondarily about the program
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and I thought, "Yeah,
well, it's in God's hands... "
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and that's where I just
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left it... I think...
we talked a little bit...
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we were just... I
just wanted to get over it,
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I didn't want to
think about this,
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I just wanted to
get over the loss and...
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you know... the feeling of
loss of a brother in Christ
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but as things developed...
another name came into my brain
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and that name was Ivor Myers.
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Yes and when we
talked... I asked you, "Who?"
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and you said, "Ivor
Myers" and I thought,
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"Wow! that's great,"
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and this is... the
combination of you two...
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is such a blessing.
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My heart aches that Pastor Perg
couldn't be a part of this too
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but I'm thankful as
well for you, Pastor Ivor,
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I'm so glad
that you are with us.
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What have you been
experiencing with this program?
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Well, first I just
want to mention something
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about Pastor Pergerson,
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and this is a connection
that is really quite amazing
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as you guys know that I
was in the music industry
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and doing hip hop...
it was a four-man group...
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and one of the guys in the
group his name is Mondo McCann
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and you know... best friends...
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well, when we all
came out of the group,
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became Adventists
and he moved to Richmond
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and he... you know...
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I was still in New York,
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he was in Richmond, and
we'd always dialogued...
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talked about the Bible
and stayed truly connected
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and then... he
got this other friend
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whose name was
Joel... Joel Pergerson...
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and they started
connecting really strongly
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and I'm just like...
"Hey, who's this Joel, man?"
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James: Coming into my space...
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Ivor: yes... he's
coming into my space...
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and Joel was
just... so down to earth
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and Joel and I
immediately connected
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well... I didn't know that
Joel, I knew Joel had a brother
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but I didn't
actually meet that brother
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until about five
or six years ago,
00:09:14.28\00:09:15.92
through e-mail dialogue
and that was his brother, Will,
00:09:15.95\00:09:19.02
and so, he and I were
dialoguing a little bit
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and talking about some things
with "Righteousness by faith"
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and so... I never met him
in person... but the connection
00:09:25.73\00:09:28.53
from my best friend
in the hip hop group
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meeting his
brother and then... us...
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just sort of
dialoguing, you know, just...
00:09:34.34\00:09:36.81
it's kind of amazing
how the Lord brings things
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you know, so,
anyway, I was called
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to participate in the program
and I just thought to myself,
00:09:45.81\00:09:52.22
"Wow!
that's...what an opportunity,
00:09:52.25\00:09:55.46
I didn't know if we were
going to be on the same page
00:09:55.49\00:09:57.89
because when it comes to
the book of Revelation...
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James: Yeah, I
was wondering what...
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what is Ivor thinking?
what is Ivor thinking...
00:10:00.93\00:10:04.17
are we going to
be on the same page?
00:10:04.23\00:10:05.57
And I said,
"Lets... why don't we... "
00:10:05.60\00:10:07.60
I said, "Why don't
we get together and talk
00:10:07.64\00:10:10.41
a little bit over
the phone and try to see
00:10:10.47\00:10:13.21
are we on the same page,
00:10:13.24\00:10:14.84
because that's
going to be crucial,
00:10:14.88\00:10:16.64
you don't want to be on
a program and be like...
00:10:16.71\00:10:19.98
"Well... actually
James... if you look at... "
00:10:20.02\00:10:23.28
you know...
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:23.35\00:10:24.99
James: It's a love story...
Ivor: and so we began dialoguing
00:10:25.02\00:10:28.72
and almost everything...
we found ourselves...
00:10:28.76\00:10:34.73
and it's interesting
because I was just telling James
00:10:34.76\00:10:37.00
that I'd just been
through the book of Revelation
00:10:37.03\00:10:39.67
several times but I
decided about three months
00:10:39.70\00:10:42.17
before he called me to
go through the book again
00:10:42.20\00:10:44.61
in a way that I had
never gone through it before
00:10:44.64\00:10:47.04
and much of what
we're presenting now,
00:10:47.11\00:10:49.54
much of the
things that I am sharing
00:10:49.61\00:10:52.01
are things that I've
never presented before
00:10:52.05\00:10:54.65
so when we
connected, it was just...
00:10:54.68\00:10:56.72
when he
contacted me, I was like...
00:10:56.75\00:10:58.65
"Wow Lord, were you
preparing me for this?"
00:10:58.69\00:11:01.62
Because going
through the book in a new way
00:11:01.69\00:11:04.49
and with a fresh insight...
00:11:04.56\00:11:05.89
and so, one of
the things that we're
00:11:05.93\00:11:07.60
trying to
accomplish on this program...
00:11:07.66\00:11:10.73
I know that I've
been an Adventist now for
00:11:10.77\00:11:13.84
18 or 20 years now
00:11:13.90\00:11:16.17
and I've read almost
every book on Revelation
00:11:16.20\00:11:19.47
that our
Denomination has put out
00:11:19.51\00:11:22.58
and I've gleaned so
much from those books
00:11:22.64\00:11:25.35
but the one thing
that I've never gleaned
00:11:25.38\00:11:27.32
from any of these books
is: how did you get that?
00:11:27.38\00:11:30.05
Hmmm... hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:30.09\00:11:32.75
how did you get that
these seven churches represent
00:11:32.79\00:11:35.89
you know... I believe it,
I see the history... but how?
00:11:35.92\00:11:39.03
And for me that was just
a very important question
00:11:39.63\00:11:42.50
because I didn't
want someone asking me,
00:11:42.53\00:11:45.47
"How did you get that?"
00:11:45.53\00:11:46.87
and not be able to tell them,
00:11:46.90\00:11:48.40
"Well, okay, this
is how you get that. "
00:11:48.44\00:11:50.77
And so, for me, I had to get
behind the "what" to the "why. "
00:11:50.84\00:11:56.68
Why... why these seven seals,
00:11:56.71\00:12:00.22
what are they
trying to portray to?
00:12:00.32\00:12:01.68
I know the "what" but why?
00:12:01.75\00:12:03.28
And so this last
time that I went through
00:12:03.32\00:12:06.12
the book of Revelation,
I actually went through it,
00:12:06.15\00:12:08.12
not focusing so
much on the "what"
00:12:08.19\00:12:10.53
but the "why...
" the principles...
00:12:10.56\00:12:12.76
how do we come to
these conclusions?
00:12:12.79\00:12:14.60
Why do we come to
these conclusions,
00:12:14.63\00:12:16.23
are there laws that
govern the book of Revelation
00:12:16.26\00:12:19.60
that if you
understand those laws,
00:12:19.63\00:12:21.54
then every one of us should be
coming to the same conclusion.
00:12:21.57\00:12:24.97
Because, you know,
even within Adventism
00:12:25.01\00:12:26.78
you have different
people coming in...
00:12:26.84\00:12:28.24
you know...
different conclusions...
00:12:28.28\00:12:29.68
and we can't have
different views about gravity.
00:12:29.71\00:12:33.58
Yvonne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ivor: You know what I'm saying?
00:12:33.62\00:12:36.65
There's a law that
dictates how gravity works
00:12:36.69\00:12:39.82
and so... the Law of Gravity...
and so, gravity is truth
00:12:39.89\00:12:43.53
and truth is not plural,
you know what I'm saying?
00:12:43.59\00:12:46.86
So, if there are laws that
govern the book of Revelation,
00:12:46.90\00:12:50.93
then we really all should be
coming to the same conclusion
00:12:50.97\00:12:55.00
based upon those laws.
00:12:55.07\00:12:56.40
And so that's kind
of what we want to...
00:12:56.44\00:12:58.57
in this program, we're
presenting more the "why"
00:12:58.61\00:13:03.04
and not just the "what. "
00:13:03.08\00:13:04.78
Yeah, the principles that
bring us to the conclusions.
00:13:04.81\00:13:07.72
Absolutely, and that's
for the sake of the student
00:13:07.75\00:13:10.62
so the student can know,
00:13:10.69\00:13:12.02
we're not just
telling you what to believe,
00:13:12.05\00:13:13.86
but we're showing you
why you should believe in it.
00:13:13.89\00:13:16.49
We also learn the
"why" behind the different
00:13:16.52\00:13:19.23
denominations as well
00:13:19.26\00:13:20.90
because you're
talking about not having
00:13:20.93\00:13:23.53
necessarily
multiple interpretations
00:13:23.57\00:13:26.13
because there is one
truth but we learn why
00:13:26.17\00:13:30.61
there are the
different denominations
00:13:30.67\00:13:33.94
give us a quick
breakdown of that.
00:13:33.98\00:13:37.21
So, we had shared in one
of the studies that we did
00:13:37.25\00:13:42.38
that there are several
different schools of prophecy
00:13:42.42\00:13:46.42
one is "Preterism" which
puts everything in the past,
00:13:46.45\00:13:49.56
one is "Futurism" which
puts everything in the future
00:13:49.59\00:13:52.66
then there's "Historicism"
00:13:52.69\00:13:54.30
which is the unfolding
of prophecy throughout time.
00:13:54.30\00:13:58.10
And we saw that...
one of the things that was
00:13:58.13\00:14:01.84
that was done during the...
around 1500s and 1600s was
00:14:01.87\00:14:07.94
an intentional
redirecting of the prophecies
00:14:07.98\00:14:12.85
that basically led
to different schools
00:14:12.88\00:14:16.05
in other words, time
was changing prophecies
00:14:16.08\00:14:19.52
to show, you know,
00:14:19.55\00:14:20.89
certain things that
you believe about prophecy
00:14:20.96\00:14:22.72
that point to certain
entities can't be true,
00:14:22.76\00:14:24.49
it was done in the past,
it was done in the future,
00:14:24.53\00:14:26.53
those things threw
off the interpretation
00:14:26.56\00:14:30.63
and understanding
of Bible prophecy,
00:14:30.67\00:14:32.13
that's one reason why we have
so many different teachings.
00:14:32.17\00:14:35.20
Another reason is that
God was calling a reformation,
00:14:35.24\00:14:40.54
God was calling
for a reformation
00:14:40.58\00:14:42.04
because of teachings
that were not Biblical...
00:14:42.08\00:14:45.58
that were not found in the
Bible and what happened is that
00:14:45.61\00:14:49.88
as the founders
of these truths...
00:14:49.92\00:14:53.96
reestablishing these truths,
00:14:54.02\00:14:56.16
Martin Luther,
Wesley, Wycliffe Huss...
00:14:56.19\00:15:00.53
the people who were
following them, began to...
00:15:00.56\00:15:04.07
just kind of... settle
down around that one truth,
00:15:04.10\00:15:07.34
"I'm of Martin Luther
so we are Lutherans... "
00:15:07.37\00:15:10.61
or "I am... you know...
00:15:10.64\00:15:12.34
of the...
Calvin... we are Calvinists"
00:15:12.41\00:15:14.84
and these men were
never meant to be followed
00:15:14.91\00:15:17.98
what should have
happened was these truths...
00:15:18.01\00:15:21.05
should have been
brought together...
00:15:21.08\00:15:22.48
but people started crowding
around the "figure head"
00:15:22.52\00:15:26.55
right... and this was
where we got the formation
00:15:26.62\00:15:30.63
of all these
different denominations.
00:15:30.66\00:15:32.69
Yeah, we saw that in
the church in Sardis,
00:15:32.73\00:15:34.73
"I have not found your
works perfect before God,
00:15:34.76\00:15:37.70
the morning star of
the reformation comes out
00:15:37.73\00:15:40.64
in the church in
Thyatira and it's Wycliffe,
00:15:40.70\00:15:43.47
and the Bible comes
out... the Word of God comes out
00:15:43.51\00:15:45.97
and people are
gifted like Jerome and Huss
00:15:46.01\00:15:48.78
and Martin Luther and
Melanchthon and others
00:15:48.81\00:15:51.85
are gifted to search
and discover these truths
00:15:51.88\00:15:54.85
and they themselves...
00:15:54.88\00:15:56.22
many of them didn't
want the searching and
00:15:56.25\00:15:58.12
discovering of
truth to stop with them
00:15:58.15\00:16:00.12
and for their names
to become denominational
00:16:00.19\00:16:02.22
like the Lutheran Church
but in the Church of Sardis,
00:16:02.29\00:16:06.36
Jesus says, the
true witness says,
00:16:06.39\00:16:08.16
"I've not found your
works perfect before God"
00:16:08.20\00:16:10.67
and the Bible says
00:16:10.70\00:16:12.03
that the path of the
justice is a shining light
00:16:12.07\00:16:14.30
that shines more and
more unto the perfect day
00:16:14.34\00:16:16.24
so that means,
00:16:16.27\00:16:17.61
"not my works
being perfect before God"
00:16:17.64\00:16:19.54
means that these
Reformers stopped,
00:16:19.61\00:16:21.54
they didn't continue
on unto the perfect day
00:16:21.58\00:16:23.98
and so... out of
that, God brought a Movement
00:16:24.05\00:16:26.35
called the Millerite Movement
00:16:26.38\00:16:27.78
and that Movement
was made up of people
00:16:27.82\00:16:29.85
from all these different
denominations and backgrounds
00:16:29.88\00:16:31.99
who came into this Movement
00:16:32.02\00:16:33.46
and brought with them
the light of the Word of God
00:16:33.49\00:16:36.29
and the truth of the Word of God
00:16:36.32\00:16:37.66
that God had gifted
these different Movements
00:16:37.69\00:16:39.03
but encouraged them to
move on and that "moving on"
00:16:39.06\00:16:42.06
didn't stop with the
disappointment of 1844
00:16:42.10\00:16:44.40
but became... blossomed into the
Seventh-day Adventist Movement
00:16:44.43\00:16:48.64
the Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:16:48.67\00:16:50.01
and now God is
encouraging us to move on
00:16:50.07\00:16:51.94
let's not be
satisfied with interpreting
00:16:51.97\00:16:53.98
the Book of Revelation
with the emphasis on the beast
00:16:54.04\00:16:56.31
and the Antichrist...
let's move back now
00:16:56.34\00:16:58.85
to understand the
full picture of Revelation
00:16:58.88\00:17:00.98
and in the Book of Revelation,
all the Bible meets and ends
00:17:01.02\00:17:03.45
and it's a picture of
the Bridegroom and the Bride
00:17:03.52\00:17:06.62
and the marriage
and it's a love story
00:17:06.65\00:17:09.19
of a Bridegroom that
beckons us, that redeems us,
00:17:09.22\00:17:15.93
that protects us,
and that moves us on.
00:17:15.96\00:17:19.10
And an antagonist who is saying,
00:17:19.13\00:17:21.44
"Give me some time with
your woman and I'll bet you...
00:17:21.47\00:17:25.17
that I can take her heart. "
00:17:25.21\00:17:26.78
Yvonne: Hmmm...
00:17:26.81\00:17:28.14
So that's the
whole drama of the book.
00:17:28.18\00:17:30.18
Yvonne: Yeah.
00:17:30.25\00:17:31.58
Because I'm going
to steal your woman.
00:17:31.61\00:17:33.21
Yeah, wow! and you
know what's great about
00:17:33.25\00:17:35.05
this program to me is
like... Jason and I represent
00:17:35.08\00:17:38.85
two different camps...
00:17:38.89\00:17:40.26
and Jason has just
recently gotten baptized
00:17:40.29\00:17:43.29
and has come to
the Lord and I don't...
00:17:43.32\00:17:45.59
have you ever
read Revelation, Jay?
00:17:45.63\00:17:47.86
What's been your
experience with Revelation?
00:17:47.86\00:17:50.53
I've looked at
parts of it before
00:17:50.57\00:17:53.50
but I never
really got deep into it
00:17:53.54\00:17:56.34
because I got
discouraged because I'm reading
00:17:56.37\00:18:00.11
these horns and
beasts and this and that...
00:18:00.14\00:18:03.61
and I'm like...
what... what is this?
00:18:03.68\00:18:05.61
So it was discouraging,
00:18:05.65\00:18:08.15
so I never really
got to dive deep into it
00:18:08.18\00:18:12.12
because it was just
too much at the time.
00:18:12.15\00:18:15.36
We're changing that right now.
00:18:15.39\00:18:16.76
Yvonne: Yeah, oh yeah.
00:18:16.79\00:18:18.59
And what this program offers
too is practical illustrations
00:18:18.63\00:18:21.43
and a good
breakdown for each class...
00:18:21.46\00:18:25.77
for someone who
has read it before
00:18:25.80\00:18:30.04
and then someone who
hasn't really... got into it.
00:18:30.11\00:18:33.58
And that's also evident
in the fact that we have
00:18:33.61\00:18:36.98
just finished chapter 5
and it has taken us 18 meetings
00:18:37.05\00:18:40.65
to get through chapter 5,
we're not rushing through this,
00:18:40.72\00:18:44.29
we're not rushing through this.
00:18:44.32\00:18:45.65
We need to point
out that when we talked
00:18:45.69\00:18:47.49
we said, "Okay,
when we get to 3ABN,
00:18:47.56\00:18:49.32
by the 13th program,
00:18:49.36\00:18:51.43
we should be around
Revelation chapter 11."
00:18:51.46\00:18:53.93
James: Yeah, half way
through, we just tossed that
00:18:54.00\00:18:57.47
we said, "Man! let's
not... no pressure... let's...
00:18:57.53\00:19:01.20
Yvonne: Right, we
don't have an agenda
00:19:01.24\00:19:02.90
it just flows under the
power of the Holy Spirit.
00:19:02.97\00:19:06.21
And we love the fact that
you guys are on the Set with us
00:19:06.24\00:19:09.94
you are the people that
help moderate this program
00:19:09.98\00:19:13.11
you pause us, you
say, "Say that again,"
00:19:13.15\00:19:15.52
you ask the questions...
the right questions,
00:19:15.55\00:19:17.55
we get to pop quiz
you... you know and...
00:19:17.62\00:19:20.39
"How much did
they get out of that?"
00:19:20.42\00:19:21.76
"Do we need to go back and
rehash that or recap that?"
00:19:21.79\00:19:23.59
Or... "Let's go
back and recap that
00:19:23.66\00:19:25.19
because that was
really significant"
00:19:25.23\00:19:26.63
and as we recap things...
00:19:26.66\00:19:28.00
we say it, again
maybe in a different way
00:19:28.03\00:19:30.07
and then we
pick up a whole tenor
00:19:30.10\00:19:32.37
of the way that God
is communicating to us
00:19:32.40\00:19:34.64
in Revelation... and the
way He's communicating is
00:19:34.67\00:19:36.71
He's repeating it
and He's enlarging it
00:19:36.74\00:19:38.54
and repeating it
and He's enlarging it...
00:19:38.57\00:19:40.08
He's laying layer after
layer after layer after layer
00:19:40.11\00:19:43.01
of the same,
beautiful story of Redemption.
00:19:43.04\00:19:45.88
I have a
question for both of you.
00:19:45.91\00:19:47.25
When or what ignited
the passion for you all
00:19:47.32\00:19:51.65
with prophecy and Revelation?
00:19:51.69\00:19:54.82
Well, for me... I can
say that I had an interest
00:19:54.86\00:19:57.89
in prophecy before
I ever took up a Bible
00:19:57.93\00:20:01.26
and gave my heart to Jesus
personally and individually
00:20:01.30\00:20:04.13
I just had this curiosity,
The Mark of the Beast, 666,
00:20:04.17\00:20:06.90
I think, I watched the
same movies that Ivor watched
00:20:06.94\00:20:09.30
and when he mentioned
it, I was like, "Yeah... "
00:20:09.34\00:20:11.67
and they were spooky
scary... spooky scary
00:20:11.71\00:20:14.48
and what happened was
00:20:14.51\00:20:15.98
when I became a Christian first,
00:20:16.01\00:20:18.91
I was going to the
Pentecostal Church,
00:20:18.95\00:20:20.58
Church of Calvary and then
00:20:20.62\00:20:22.08
my sister was
involved with Adventism
00:20:22.12\00:20:23.85
she started telling me about
stuff concerning the Sabbath,
00:20:23.89\00:20:27.12
for example, and
different things,
00:20:27.16\00:20:28.49
diet things and I was just like,
00:20:28.52\00:20:29.86
"Whooo, my sister's
going in the wrong direction,
00:20:29.89\00:20:32.19
I need to
snatch her out of that"
00:20:32.23\00:20:33.56
so I started studying with
these Adventists to get her out
00:20:33.60\00:20:36.43
and they were all into prophecy,
I got into a Daniel Seminar
00:20:36.46\00:20:39.40
and I was like, I
mean, I was totally like...
00:20:39.43\00:20:42.30
"Wow! Daniel 2... the history...
00:20:42.34\00:20:45.74
just lines up perfectly,
I've got to understand prophecy"
00:20:45.77\00:20:49.44
and that's how I
first got a hunger for it.
00:20:49.48\00:20:50.98
Yes, so, it's
kind of the same story,
00:20:51.01\00:20:55.58
being intrigued as a child
00:20:55.62\00:20:57.72
because of
watching certain movies
00:20:57.75\00:21:00.06
about a little boy
who was the Antichrist and
00:21:00.09\00:21:04.63
discovered they're 13-years-old
00:21:04.66\00:21:06.49
and anyone who
found out his identity,
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.23
died a crazy, painful
death and so, I vowed I'd never
00:21:08.26\00:21:13.07
want to know what
the Mark of the Beast is
00:21:13.13\00:21:15.07
and just... kind of
that first peaked my interest
00:21:15.14\00:21:21.11
and I was like, "What
in the world is that?"
00:21:21.14\00:21:22.48
And then, just
different experiences
00:21:22.51\00:21:26.28
that I was introduced
to... I had grown up in New York
00:21:26.31\00:21:33.15
hearing about a whole lot,
00:21:33.19\00:21:34.52
people preaching on the
street corners saying...
00:21:34.56\00:21:37.13
"Oh, you know... do
this... do that... "
00:21:37.19\00:21:39.09
and I was like,
"That's crazy, that's crazy...
00:21:39.13\00:21:40.96
that's... that
doesn't make sense"
00:21:41.03\00:21:42.43
so I was
skeptical of all religions
00:21:42.46\00:21:46.43
and when I was
introduced through a...
00:21:46.47\00:21:48.07
sounds like a
random conversation
00:21:48.10\00:21:50.37
with a guy that I
didn't know was an Adventist...
00:21:50.44\00:21:52.64
he began talking
about the book of Daniel...
00:21:52.67\00:21:56.34
and as he was breaking
down... this was one night...
00:21:56.38\00:22:00.62
you know, one night...
00:22:00.65\00:22:01.98
breaks down the
book of Daniel chapter 7
00:22:02.02\00:22:05.29
and in that one
night, it just...
00:22:05.32\00:22:09.32
everything flipped
for me, everything...
00:22:09.39\00:22:12.53
because I liked history
00:22:12.56\00:22:14.00
and when he was giving
me the history of Daniel 7
00:22:14.10\00:22:17.13
I was like... "I've
heard this before...
00:22:17.17\00:22:19.17
this is in our
school books in history"
00:22:19.20\00:22:21.94
and when I heard
it... it was just like...
00:22:21.97\00:22:24.71
and from that
night... everything changed,
00:22:24.74\00:22:28.01
I was... I would...
like... give Bible studies
00:22:28.04\00:22:31.28
by the month
after I learned this,
00:22:31.31\00:22:34.22
I would give Bible Studies,
every Bible Study was Daniel 7,
00:22:34.28\00:22:37.29
because that's all I knew.
00:22:37.35\00:22:39.72
So the person would be like,
00:22:39.75\00:22:42.09
"All right, what are
we going to study next?"
00:22:42.12\00:22:44.29
And I'd be like...
"Um... well next week,
00:22:44.33\00:22:46.23
we'll look at Daniel 7
from a different perspective
00:22:46.26\00:22:48.90
because there is
so much there... "
00:22:48.93\00:22:51.03
I didn't
anything... anything else...
00:22:51.07\00:22:53.10
Daniel 7, so my first
like... I don't know...
00:22:53.13\00:22:56.47
50 studies must
have been on Daniel 7
00:22:56.50\00:22:58.54
and it just... once that grew
00:22:58.57\00:23:02.51
and I would gain... a
little bit more insight...
00:23:02.54\00:23:04.68
"Well, I can add this
to my Daniel 7 study... "
00:23:04.71\00:23:07.22
so today... I'm
actually still adding stuff
00:23:07.25\00:23:09.72
to my Daniel 7 study.
00:23:09.75\00:23:11.09
It has just totally expanded
now to include so much more.
00:23:11.12\00:23:14.29
And tell us what
you're doing today.
00:23:14.32\00:23:15.89
So, I am... I have a
couple of ministries,
00:23:15.92\00:23:19.36
number one is:
Power of the Lamb Ministry
00:23:19.39\00:23:22.70
which was actually...
I started because of 3ABN
00:23:22.73\00:23:28.37
you guys actually called
me probably... 16 years ago
00:23:28.40\00:23:36.04
and... to give my testimony...
00:23:36.08\00:23:38.15
and it was that that basically
00:23:38.18\00:23:42.28
kick-started Power
of the Lamb Ministries
00:23:42.32\00:23:44.09
so that's been
our longest ministry
00:23:44.15\00:23:45.85
we now also have ARME Ministries
00:23:45.89\00:23:47.62
which is a ministry that teaches
people how to study the Bible.
00:23:47.66\00:23:50.19
The "why" of Bible
Study and I'm also pastoring
00:23:50.23\00:23:54.00
in Campbell, California,
00:23:54.03\00:23:56.53
at the Campbell
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:23:56.60\00:23:58.27
I've been there
for about a year now
00:23:58.30\00:24:00.04
and the Lord is doing some
really powerful things there
00:24:00.07\00:24:04.14
so, yeah, that's... my
wife is not here with me
00:24:04.21\00:24:07.91
but she's usually with me
on all my 3ABN adventures,
00:24:07.94\00:24:11.65
she's Atonte... she's at home...
my kids are... 4 children...
00:24:11.68\00:24:14.68
and yeah... so the
Lord has blessed me
00:24:14.72\00:24:18.09
in many different ways.
00:24:18.12\00:24:19.45
Amen, amen, what
about you Pastor James?
00:24:19.49\00:24:21.62
Well, I'm pastoring
also now part-time...
00:24:21.66\00:24:23.96
I've been doing it for about
a year in the Oregon Conference
00:24:24.03\00:24:27.30
I'm part time
because I work full time
00:24:27.30\00:24:29.06
for Light Bearers Ministries
00:24:29.10\00:24:30.43
and Light Bearers Ministries
had a lot of interaction
00:24:30.47\00:24:33.30
with 3ABN over the years,
00:24:33.34\00:24:34.67
we have a full-time
publishing ministry,
00:24:34.70\00:24:37.07
and we also do a
lot of programs on 3ABN,
00:24:37.11\00:24:39.41
we've done: Closer
Look, Christian Concern,
00:24:39.44\00:24:41.74
Books of the Book, Lift Him Up
00:24:41.78\00:24:43.41
and then we do our own
program called: Table Talk
00:24:43.45\00:24:45.71
which is something we
produce at Light Bearers
00:24:45.75\00:24:48.02
and then it comes here
00:24:48.05\00:24:49.65
and then recently I was
dared to be on: Dare to Dream.
00:24:49.68\00:24:54.02
I have some
connection there in my roots,
00:24:54.06\00:24:58.93
my father was African American
00:24:58.96\00:25:00.73
and a lot of
people don't know that
00:25:00.83\00:25:03.47
because I don't
look like Obama...
00:25:03.50\00:25:06.50
I didn't take
that... but it's there
00:25:06.53\00:25:09.44
I can take you out
on the basketball court
00:25:09.47\00:25:13.21
but... so... that
challenge, I mean...
00:25:13.24\00:25:16.95
Danny talked about it
and then we talked about it
00:25:16.98\00:25:18.68
and I said, "Yeah,
I'd love to do that. "
00:25:18.71\00:25:22.02
My burden, of
course, is for prophecy
00:25:22.05\00:25:24.75
but in the context
of that, I recognize
00:25:24.79\00:25:28.52
that we are a
family... the human family...
00:25:28.56\00:25:31.86
and God is
calling us to reach out
00:25:31.89\00:25:35.10
and to reconnect the
entire human family together
00:25:35.13\00:25:37.93
and so I really
appreciate the opportunity to be
00:25:37.97\00:25:40.70
on this part of the 3ABN program
00:25:40.74\00:25:44.71
and to recognize
that God has called us...
00:25:44.74\00:25:47.54
to just... to just...
open up the Word of God
00:25:47.58\00:25:50.25
and just share the Word of God,
00:25:50.31\00:25:51.71
it's just such a
privilege I've been so blessed.
00:25:51.75\00:25:54.62
Yes, we are so blessed
to have both of you, really,
00:25:54.65\00:25:57.55
I mean... this is...
this to me is just...
00:25:57.59\00:26:00.49
getting into the
Word and in this way...
00:26:00.52\00:26:03.26
in the way that
we've been getting into it,
00:26:03.29\00:26:05.56
to me... it's just...
00:26:05.59\00:26:06.93
it's so superior to
anything else that I've seen
00:26:06.96\00:26:10.07
because we don't have an
agenda, it's not intimidating...
00:26:10.10\00:26:15.20
for so many people,
Revelation is intimidating
00:26:15.24\00:26:18.37
because you don't understand it,
00:26:18.41\00:26:20.08
you just read a
whole bunch of things
00:26:20.11\00:26:21.44
and it's just
like... whatever...
00:26:21.48\00:26:22.81
I'm just not getting it
00:26:22.84\00:26:24.18
but with this program, you
help us to connect the dots
00:26:24.21\00:26:28.55
in a way that is not threatening
00:26:28.58\00:26:32.29
so we are really, really
grateful to you for that.
00:26:32.32\00:26:35.99
Ivor: Praise God.
00:26:36.02\00:26:37.56
We are grateful to be able to
be a part of the program, yeah.
00:26:37.63\00:26:40.63
It's a different
approach. James: It is.
00:26:40.70\00:26:43.33
Yvonne: Are you
happy with it Jay?
00:26:43.37\00:26:44.70
Very, very, I feel like
I'm going to learn Revelation
00:26:44.73\00:26:48.94
and by the time
you guys come back,
00:26:48.97\00:26:50.61
I will be a scholar.
00:26:50.67\00:26:52.34
James: Exactly, that's right,
00:26:52.41\00:26:54.04
and you got to help
us to go further too.
00:26:54.08\00:26:56.44
Jason: Don't hold me to that.
00:26:56.48\00:26:59.15
So, we're going to continue to
00:26:59.18\00:27:01.88
let people know
about this program.
00:27:01.92\00:27:05.05
Viewer, if you're watching
this program, right now,
00:27:05.09\00:27:09.69
which obviously you are...
00:27:09.72\00:27:11.19
or you wouldn't be hearing me
00:27:11.23\00:27:12.59
you need to tune in to:
Salvation in Symbols and Signs
00:27:12.63\00:27:17.07
you will be so blessed because
00:27:17.10\00:27:19.43
it's a whole new way
to approach Revelation.
00:27:19.47\00:27:22.70
Give it a try,
thank you, God bless.
00:27:22.74\00:27:28.41
Those brothers really know
00:27:28.44\00:27:31.51
how to break down
the Book of Revelation.
00:27:31.55\00:27:34.22
It's so much clearer to me now.
00:27:34.25\00:27:36.72
For a long time, I
had trouble grasping it
00:27:36.79\00:27:40.36
but the more we talked about it
and as you watch these programs,
00:27:40.39\00:27:44.53
you'll see, the more
God will reveal to you
00:27:44.56\00:27:47.60
so make sure that
you check the schedule
00:27:47.60\00:27:50.43
for: Salvation in
Symbols and Signs.
00:27:50.47\00:27:53.17
Make sure that you watch it
because if you've had trouble
00:27:53.20\00:27:56.34
like I had trouble,
00:27:56.37\00:27:57.71
you're going to want
to know just how to do it.
00:27:57.74\00:28:00.51
Well, our time is up,
we thank you for joining us
00:28:00.54\00:28:03.48
and tune in next time
00:28:03.51\00:28:04.85
because it just wouldn't
be the same without you.
00:28:04.88\00:28:06.51