From Atheist to the
Air force to Believer,
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stay tuned to meet a man
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whose testimony illustrates
the mighty power of God.
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and I'm Jason Bradley
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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Our guest today
is Chris Da'Costa
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a young man with an
inspiring testimony.
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It's so good to have you
here with us Chris, welcome.
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Thank you for having me.
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Absolutely,
today is the first time
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that Jason and I are
interviewing together,
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and what happened
was when we read...
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and heard about your testimony,
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he said, "I want
to interview him,"
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and I said, "I
want to interview him,"
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so we decided we're
going to do it together.
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Awesome, and this is also
our first hour-long Special
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so, you're a part of history,
Dare to Dream History right now.
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That's right.
Thank you for having me.
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It's really good
to have you here,
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you have such an interesting
journey, Chris, because
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one of the things that
we say here on Dare to Dream
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and on Urban Report, is that,
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we know that God has a
plan for us, Jeremiah 29:11,
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and so, everybody has a purpose
and a plan in this whole mosaic
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and your journey
has been so fascinating
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and God's hand has been on you
throughout your whole journey.
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Let's start with your childhood,
where did you grow up?
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I was born in New York City
and I was raised in Virginia
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so my family... my mom and I
moved around a lot, actually,
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but I'd say for the
first seven years of my life
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I spent it in New York City.
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And were you in a two-parent
home or a single-parent home?
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I was living with my
mom and her father at first,
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but, she was a single parent.
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Okay, and so were you in a
Christian family or were you...
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did you know about Jesus,
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so where were you in
terms of your spiritual life?
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Actually, I had never really
heard of the name of Jesus
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until much later
in my teenage years,
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my family was
predominantly Atheist
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with a lot of
them being unbelievers
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and so my
grandfather had weird beliefs
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and so forth he was
more like... Agnostic
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and my mother was an Atheist
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and so, there
was not much religion
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or anything about
Jesus in the home.
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How does that... this is
a... perhaps a naive question
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but how does that play out
like a home without Jesus Christ
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there's no mention
of God, there's no...
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in fact there is
no belief in God,
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how does that play
out in day-to-day life?
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You know it was very challenging
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not having heard of
Jesus or the name of Jesus
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or anything about
church or anything like that,
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it was a... you know...
I think when you're young,
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it's challenging looking
back at the childhood upbringing
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but when you're
there in the moment,
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in those upcoming years,
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not hearing about
Jesus in the home,
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I think it's just... you
get used to a way of living
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and everything you see and...
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are introduced
to, you think is okay.
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Hmmm... hmmm...
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Did you hear about
Jesus in other places though,
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like... you didn't hear
about Jesus in your home
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but when you went to
school or around some friends
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did you hear about Jesus
and did that spark a curiosity?
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Not necessarily and I hadn't...
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I didn't hear
anything about Jesus
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when I was younger from anyone
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and my mother and
her father and my family,
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everything was so dysfunctional
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and... no... I hadn't
heard anything about God
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at a young age, it
wasn't until I was about
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16 or 17, I
actually heard about Jesus.
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Really? Yeah.
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And what were your thoughts
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when you first
heard about Jesus?
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When I first heard about Jesus
I actually was very antagonistic
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I wanted nothing to do
with the God of the Bible
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or the God of the Christians,
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at 17 years old,
I became an Atheist
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and I knew that
in my younger years
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having not heard about
God, I didn't really care,
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but when I was 17, I
became a decided Atheist,
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I said, "No, I
don't believe in religion
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I want nothing to do
with the God of the Christians
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and I believed, at that
time, that Christianity was just
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an "emotional-based experience"
used to deceive people.
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I want to come
back to that in a bit,
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but I want to go back
to when you were a child
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and what your life was like
growing up in a home without God
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were the morals
high in your home,
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what was going on in
your home as a child?
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You know, the morals
were very low actually,
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I have a relative in the
family who is one of the leaders
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over our family and he
has been living here illegally
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for over 22 years and
he has one of the biggest
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drug cartels in New York City
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and so being in
that family environment
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I was introduced to
drugs at a very young age
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and when I moved
from New York to Virginia,
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I went back to
New York every summer
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to spend time with my family
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and because of
the drug trafficking,
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I began to work
with my relatives
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and that was my way
of kind of earning money
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and also participating
in the experience and so
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I had that at a very young age.
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What kinds of drugs
were you surrounded by?
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Marijuana, mostly Marijuana
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and lots of different
types of pills and so forth.
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That's got to be...
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I guess if that's
what you're used to,
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so to speak, as
you mentioned before,
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then that's
kind of all you know.
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Yeah. You don't know any...
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any better than that, so
that's the normal for you.
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Yeah. And that has to be a...
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looking back over it,
and comparing your life now,
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post AD, right, you know,
after Christ and before...
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and BC... it's got to be like...
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such an amazing awakening
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and appreciation
for what you have.
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Yeah.
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So your family was
pretty dysfunctional
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Very, the last
time I saw my father
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was when I was
about five years old
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and so, not having
a father in the home,
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having just myself, being
the only child with my mom
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single working mom,
and moving around so much
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and also
disorganization and my mom...
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having to work two to
three or four jobs at once,
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to take care of her
only child in Virginia,
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I was at the babysitter a lot
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and I was out
roaming with friends a lot
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and it was around 13 or 14
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that I began to really
dive down to a dark path.
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And what happened then?
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When I was around 13 or 14,
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I had surrounded
myself with so many bad...
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such a bad influence of friends,
and not only my own family,
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but I also had really
negative influential...
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influentially-negative
friends that were encouraging
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Marijuana and
encouraging promiscuity
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and encouraging
theft and so forth,
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and so, having that atmosphere
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with both friends and
family, that was my lifestyle,
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that I thought was okay.
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That makes a huge difference,
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whoever you
surround yourself with,
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the company that you keep
is usually how you'll turn out
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or usually how you'll become
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because you're spending
all your time with these people
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and they're
leading a certain lifestyle
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and then you kind of
begin to embrace that lifestyle.
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It's interesting to me because
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even though you didn't
grow up in a home with Atheism,
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you grew up in a Christian home,
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it was kind of at that same
age that you went astray too,
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Jason went
astray around 13 or 14
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getting involved with the
wrong people and all that,
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what is it about that age...
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that time of life
that makes you feel like
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you can kind of drift that way
or kind of pushes you into that
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what do you think, both
of you, what do you think?
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I think it's watching so
much television and movies and
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listening to
certain types of music
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it kind of shapes your mind,
your thinking about yourself
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and about the world, and so,
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what Society
had presented to me,
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I accepted it, you
know, lived... being a teen,
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now it's time to party and
have all this "supposed fun"
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and go out and get intoxicated
and hang out with friends
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and do all these other things,
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once I turned 13, I knew that
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that's the life
I wanted to live.
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Hmmm... And so, yeah,
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and my mom tried to place
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a little bit of
limitation on that
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because she noticed I
was going down a darker path
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and so I actually, ran
from home and left home
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for a long time
because of it as well.
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So you ran away at 13?
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I ran away actually at 16
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and I wanted to
get away completely
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and my mother had
married another person
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and I didn't want
anything to do with it
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and... so I ran away
to kind of do my own thing
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when I was in high school.
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I tried to run away
once I didn't make it,
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I didn't get very far,
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so, I was like
seven- or eight-years old
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how old was I?
No, I was like nine...
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I was probably
nine, but I ran away,
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and I'm a huge foodie,
and I forgot to pack food,
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so I had to turn around, I
had to go back and get food,
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but I have to agree with you on
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with the 13- and
14-year old mindset
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when you're watching
movies and listening to music,
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everything that's bad
pretty much is glorified
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in the Media, so all
the drugs, the women,
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the money, the cars,
the clothes, the fast money
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and going about
it in the wrong way,
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selling dope or whatever...
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it's glorified
and they don't show
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all the consequences and
repercussions that come along
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with that lifestyle, so you
get caught with some Marijuana,
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you might go down the
road for a little while
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or if you get
caught with some Ecstasy
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that's like an automatic felony
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and you're going to go
down the road for a little while
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so, yeah, I've had my fair
share of experience with that
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and it's definitely
because of the movies and music
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and the company you keep.
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True, so...
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So you found that at that age
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you got drawn
into the dark side.
00:11:44.23\00:11:48.47
Yes.
00:11:48.50\00:11:49.84
What happened from 13 to 16,
00:11:49.87\00:11:53.27
where was your head,
what happened to you?
00:11:53.31\00:11:55.81
I think I would
say, from 13 to 18,
00:11:55.84\00:11:58.15
between 13 and 18,
00:11:58.21\00:12:00.62
I, having worked
under my family's
00:12:00.65\00:12:03.59
drug trafficking system,
00:12:03.62\00:12:08.26
and having been introduced
to drugs at a very young age,
00:12:08.29\00:12:12.99
I think between those
ages, I went as far as possible
00:12:13.03\00:12:17.70
because I'll just add
to that, when I was 17,
00:12:17.73\00:12:21.84
I realized that my
mother had begun to search
00:12:21.87\00:12:25.57
for what she
called "a meaning in life"
00:12:25.61\00:12:29.18
Hmmm... and I knew
when I was 16 or 17,
00:12:29.21\00:12:31.95
when I became an
Atheist, for sure,
00:12:31.98\00:12:34.35
when I realized
that she was searching,
00:12:34.38\00:12:38.29
and she had gotten
married to this man and
00:12:38.32\00:12:42.16
when I really wanted to
get away from everything,
00:12:42.19\00:12:45.36
I wanted nothing to do with God
00:12:45.39\00:12:48.86
and I realized that she was
searching and then eventually,
00:12:48.90\00:12:52.07
in her own
experience, found God,
00:12:52.13\00:12:53.90
and I think it was in
2006 that she was working at
00:12:53.94\00:13:00.34
Wells Fargo Bank
and... or Wachovia Bank
00:13:00.38\00:13:03.91
in Lumberton, North Carolina,
00:13:03.95\00:13:05.75
and an Adventist Pastor
came through the drive-through,
00:13:05.78\00:13:08.25
and invited her
to the church and
00:13:08.28\00:13:11.82
to a Daniel and
Revelation Seminar and she went
00:13:11.85\00:13:14.06
and she was beginning to
experience God in a new way
00:13:14.09\00:13:17.39
and she was eventually
converted and during that time,
00:13:17.43\00:13:20.90
I was like, "No,
I'm not having it,
00:13:20.93\00:13:23.16
I want nothing to do with God,
00:13:23.20\00:13:25.33
I want nothing to do with my
mom and her experience with...
00:13:25.37\00:13:27.70
her church experience"
so that is one of the things
00:13:27.74\00:13:30.64
what is kind of...
00:13:30.67\00:13:32.44
what I allowed to drive me
away from the house in leaving
00:13:32.47\00:13:34.81
so between those years,
13 and 18, when I left home,
00:13:34.84\00:13:40.82
I wanted to go even further,
I started skipping school,
00:13:40.85\00:13:46.76
in High School, I
started doing more drinking,
00:13:46.79\00:13:51.43
doing more
Marijuana, doing more drugs,
00:13:51.46\00:13:54.40
doing more pills,
00:13:54.43\00:13:55.76
having 20 different
girlfriends at the same time,
00:13:55.80\00:14:01.07
and skipping school
as much as possible,
00:14:01.10\00:14:04.37
and I... a friend
of mine, his mother,
00:14:04.41\00:14:07.38
was very... she lived in a very
00:14:07.41\00:14:11.58
high SES Community
00:14:11.61\00:14:12.98
and she had a couple of
homes and she gave us a home.
00:14:13.01\00:14:15.95
What kind of community?
00:14:15.98\00:14:17.32
A high Socio-economic
Community. Oh, hmmm... hmmm...
00:14:17.35\00:14:20.49
And so, she gave us a house and
she was gone, for the most part,
00:14:20.52\00:14:26.33
working so much and we
threw parties all the time,
00:14:26.36\00:14:30.50
maybe twice a week and
my weekends consisted of
00:14:30.57\00:14:34.47
Thursday through Sunday
and so I went really far
00:14:34.50\00:14:38.37
and I was angry that my mom
had accepted this new experience
00:14:38.41\00:14:42.38
and I thought to
myself, you know,
00:14:42.41\00:14:44.41
"I thought she was an unbeliever
how can she accept this...
00:14:44.45\00:14:48.15
this emotional, deceiving
stuff in the Christian church?"
00:14:48.18\00:14:51.85
So your impression
of where your mother was
00:14:51.89\00:14:57.13
was... she had gone
off onto some tangent
00:14:57.16\00:14:59.83
and had gotten all
emotional about "God"
00:14:59.86\00:15:03.63
this God that you were
rejecting and how could she...
00:15:03.67\00:15:07.67
how could she go there,
right, is that where you were?
00:15:07.70\00:15:11.67
Yeah, I was thinking,
"How could she do that?"
00:15:11.71\00:15:13.11
you know... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:15:13.14\00:15:14.48
So I wanted, absolutely,
nothing to do with it.
00:15:14.51\00:15:16.64
Wow! and how was she responding
to you during that time?
00:15:16.68\00:15:21.68
She was very, very afraid,
I have many friends right now
00:15:21.72\00:15:26.72
who are Christians, who
have a hard time believing,
00:15:26.76\00:15:30.63
saying, "Chris, we can't
see you doing those things,"
00:15:30.66\00:15:32.96
they say, "You look
like the kind of guy
00:15:32.99\00:15:35.56
who'd be in the
church all his life,
00:15:35.60\00:15:38.10
sitting in the front pew
from three-years-old," you know,
00:15:38.13\00:15:40.87
and so a lot of
stories that I told them,
00:15:40.90\00:15:42.94
and they're like,
"Chris, we can't picture"
00:15:42.97\00:15:44.97
but I told them how... you
know, it's the power of God.
00:15:45.01\00:15:47.84
Yeah. And so in that time,
00:15:47.88\00:15:49.24
my mother was very
fearful, very nervous
00:15:49.31\00:15:52.68
because she
realized that I would...
00:15:52.71\00:15:56.05
she saw me going a
deep, dark tangent in life and
00:15:56.08\00:16:01.22
to me, her accepting God...
00:16:01.26\00:16:04.29
I thought that was
a dark, deep tangent,
00:16:04.33\00:16:07.23
and I thought, "She's... I
don't know what she's doing,"
00:16:07.26\00:16:09.76
and so, I began to
visit Palm Readers,
00:16:09.80\00:16:12.60
I began to go even further,
00:16:12.63\00:16:14.27
just to get my mind
from any realization,
00:16:14.30\00:16:17.44
get my mind off
of any realization
00:16:17.47\00:16:19.64
that I needed
something or that I was missing,
00:16:19.67\00:16:22.01
that I was lacking
peace of mind or anything,
00:16:22.04\00:16:24.38
But you were searching,
00:16:24.41\00:16:26.08
if you are
going to a palm reader
00:16:26.11\00:16:28.35
or you're going
to an astrologer,
00:16:28.38\00:16:30.52
or you're looking for something,
even though you don't realize
00:16:30.55\00:16:34.96
that that hole in
your soul is a "God hole,"
00:16:34.99\00:16:38.53
you're trying to
fill it with... whatever
00:16:38.56\00:16:42.03
and you don't even realize
that that's what's missing,
00:16:42.06\00:16:45.50
so you started
getting into palm reading
00:16:45.53\00:16:49.87
and spiritualism basically,
00:16:49.90\00:16:53.38
and that... where
did that lead you?
00:16:53.41\00:16:56.18
I mean, where was your head
then once you were doing that,
00:16:56.21\00:16:59.71
where did that take you?
00:16:59.78\00:17:01.12
this actually
began in North Carolina,
00:17:01.15\00:17:03.35
because we had moved
from New York to Virginia,
00:17:03.39\00:17:06.25
to North Carolina,
and in North Carolina,
00:17:06.29\00:17:08.46
where mom got married and
00:17:08.49\00:17:11.63
when she accepted
Christ and so forth,
00:17:11.66\00:17:13.63
it was in North
Carolina where I began to visit
00:17:13.70\00:17:15.86
palm readers and it's
there when I left home,
00:17:15.90\00:17:18.03
so where it took me...
00:17:18.10\00:17:20.37
it took me to
another world of confusion,
00:17:20.40\00:17:22.77
because I wanted
to know my future,
00:17:22.80\00:17:27.08
and I wanted peace
of mind, Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:27.11\00:17:29.51
having left home,
00:17:29.54\00:17:30.88
being away from
home for a long time,
00:17:30.91\00:17:32.25
living with a friend,
doing all these things,
00:17:32.28\00:17:35.08
I realized, coming
back from these parties
00:17:35.12\00:17:37.95
and coming back drunk
at 3 or 4 in the morning,
00:17:37.99\00:17:40.59
from the different events,
00:17:40.62\00:17:41.96
I realized that
sitting on my bed, looking up,
00:17:41.99\00:17:44.23
trying to get some sleep,
that I was missing something
00:17:44.26\00:17:46.46
and it came to mind
00:17:46.49\00:17:47.93
that I would think
about how my mother
00:17:47.96\00:17:51.00
was so happy all of a sudden,
00:17:51.03\00:17:52.60
and when I thought about her
being happy and going to church,
00:17:52.63\00:17:56.60
I got even angrier and so,
visiting the palm readers and
00:17:56.67\00:18:00.41
just even going further down,
00:18:00.48\00:18:02.91
it brought me more
confusion. Hmmm... hmmm...
00:18:02.94\00:18:06.08
And we know that God is
not the author of confusion.
00:18:06.11\00:18:09.82
Chris: True... Jason: So...
00:18:09.85\00:18:12.15
Chris: So... Yvonne:
Yeah, that's got to be a
00:18:12.19\00:18:14.86
weird place to be in
because you're searching
00:18:14.89\00:18:17.49
and the one place that
you can get the answer from,
00:18:17.53\00:18:21.46
you don't want to go there,
00:18:21.50\00:18:22.83
you don't want to even
think that that is the answer,
00:18:22.86\00:18:26.63
Chris: Yeah
Yvonne: you're going to try
00:18:26.67\00:18:28.00
everything else
00:18:28.04\00:18:29.37
thinking that that's
the answer. Chris: Yes.
00:18:29.40\00:18:31.67
So, this is from 13 to 18,
you were in that dark place
00:18:31.71\00:18:37.35
just kind of... on another path
00:18:37.38\00:18:40.42
what happened at 18?
00:18:40.45\00:18:42.35
At 18, I realized that
I was... I had gone so far
00:18:42.38\00:18:49.86
that with my friends and
all the parties I was throwing,
00:18:49.89\00:18:55.30
there were many
different instances
00:18:55.33\00:18:57.70
where I almost lost my life,
00:18:57.73\00:18:59.30
because of having
the wrong friends,
00:18:59.33\00:19:02.17
and being at the wrong
place at the wrong time.
00:19:02.20\00:19:04.31
Tell us about one of them.
00:19:04.34\00:19:05.67
One of them...
00:19:05.74\00:19:07.41
I threw a party for Prom
weekend for my high school
00:19:07.44\00:19:16.82
and I was the kind of guy to...
00:19:16.85\00:19:23.79
go... I was the kind of guy to
00:19:23.83\00:19:30.67
I was in the wrong
place at the wrong time,
00:19:30.70\00:19:36.17
doing Marijuana,
selling Marijuana,
00:19:36.20\00:19:41.14
being in the wrong areas as well
00:19:41.18\00:19:44.55
and so when I
threw these parties,
00:19:44.58\00:19:47.92
certain people
would come to the events
00:19:47.95\00:19:51.02
that I hadn't
invited, Hmmm... hmmm...
00:19:51.05\00:19:54.06
but they were people
from these different areas
00:19:54.09\00:19:57.16
where I was doing these
things, at the wrong time,
00:19:57.19\00:20:00.16
and so, and then being
around certain types of friends,
00:20:00.20\00:20:03.26
Like drug dealers
and that kind of thing?
00:20:03.30\00:20:05.60
Yes, and so, they'd come to
my... the parties I threw and
00:20:05.63\00:20:09.47
it was there that I almost
lost my life several times.
00:20:09.50\00:20:12.61
So, fights would break
out and that kind of thing?
00:20:12.64\00:20:15.74
Yes. That's very... you know,
00:20:15.78\00:20:18.78
one of the things
that people don't realize
00:20:18.81\00:20:22.92
is that
individuals attract the...
00:20:22.95\00:20:29.36
people call it "energy"
but it's spirits, you know, so,
00:20:29.42\00:20:33.96
if you're dealing with people
who are walking in darkness,
00:20:34.00\00:20:38.20
they're bringing
in those dark spirits,
00:20:38.23\00:20:42.30
so that room is
full of dark spirits,
00:20:42.34\00:20:45.67
I remember I went
to a funeral one time
00:20:45.71\00:20:49.24
of a hustler, he
had been a hustler,
00:20:49.28\00:20:52.51
and it was like...
00:20:52.55\00:20:55.58
it was a Viewing
at a funeral home
00:20:55.62\00:20:58.39
and I could feel...
00:20:58.42\00:21:02.62
he was a hustler and the
room was full of drug dealers
00:21:02.66\00:21:06.49
and pimps and hustlers,
00:21:06.53\00:21:09.50
and I could feel
the evil in the room
00:21:09.53\00:21:14.94
because they brought with
them that whole kind of energy,
00:21:14.97\00:21:19.84
you don't realize that
you attract evil spirits
00:21:19.87\00:21:24.48
or you attract
heavenly spirits, you know,
00:21:24.51\00:21:27.92
and that's one of
the things that I think,
00:21:27.95\00:21:31.29
when you're
looking for associates,
00:21:31.35\00:21:34.36
don't go to the
bottom of the barrel,
00:21:34.39\00:21:37.36
and hang out with people
that are doing the wrong things
00:21:37.39\00:21:41.43
because they bring
with them that whole energy,
00:21:41.46\00:21:45.63
that whole dark side so
what was happening too is
00:21:45.67\00:21:49.80
the devil wanted to take you out
00:21:49.84\00:21:52.17
while you were in
the midst of your sins
00:21:52.21\00:21:54.98
the devil
wanted to take you out,
00:21:55.01\00:21:57.75
and I can imagine that
your mother was praying for you
00:21:57.78\00:22:02.45
constantly... because if
she had become a believer
00:22:02.48\00:22:06.89
and you were still out
there as I know... from my son
00:22:06.92\00:22:11.76
who was still out
there, that it's such a burden
00:22:11.79\00:22:17.20
that you just don't want
your child to die in their sins
00:22:17.23\00:22:20.84
so your life was
almost taken from you because,
00:22:20.87\00:22:25.97
really, because of your choices,
the choices that you made.
00:22:26.01\00:22:30.48
Yes, and it
wouldn't even been worth it.
00:22:30.51\00:22:31.85
I know what you're saying
00:22:31.88\00:22:33.95
about those dark
evil spirits and all that,
00:22:33.98\00:22:36.82
I went to a club one time
00:22:36.85\00:22:38.79
and I used to go
to clubs all the time,
00:22:38.85\00:22:40.79
I used to throw
parties, like promote
00:22:40.82\00:22:42.72
and be a club promoter and stuff
and I went to this one club,
00:22:42.76\00:22:46.26
and I was
just... after that club,
00:22:46.29\00:22:49.23
like I wasn't even going
to church but I was like...
00:22:49.26\00:22:51.27
"Man, I need to go to
church after that... "
00:22:51.30\00:22:53.10
it just felt so evil,
00:22:53.13\00:22:54.84
like... everybody in
there was on some kind of drug
00:22:54.90\00:22:58.47
or just drunk,
00:22:58.51\00:23:00.51
you got one guy in
the middle of the floor
00:23:00.54\00:23:02.94
jumping up and down
with his red rag and just
00:23:02.98\00:23:05.28
losing his
mind, he was just off,
00:23:05.31\00:23:08.88
I don't know what
kind of drug he was on
00:23:08.92\00:23:11.25
but it was that club,
00:23:11.32\00:23:13.46
somebody has been
stabbed in that club
00:23:13.49\00:23:15.36
there's... I just felt
like I needed to go to church.
00:23:15.39\00:23:18.39
At what point, for you,
00:23:18.43\00:23:22.06
did you transition out of
the drugs and that lifestyle?
00:23:22.10\00:23:28.87
It was at 18, when I actually
tried to join the military,
00:23:28.90\00:23:35.68
I wanted to get
away from everything,
00:23:35.71\00:23:38.15
I noticed that I have
a lot of family members
00:23:38.18\00:23:42.82
who are involved in
gangs and so forth and...
00:23:42.85\00:23:45.52
so I wanted to get
away from everything,
00:23:45.55\00:23:48.19
and so what I did
was, I joined the Air force
00:23:48.22\00:23:51.89
and I knew that in order
to get into the Air force,
00:23:51.96\00:23:54.36
you couldn't have any...
00:23:54.40\00:23:55.73
certain types of
drugs in your system
00:23:55.76\00:23:58.33
so I began to
train six times a day
00:23:58.37\00:24:01.04
and I joined the
Air force in 2008.
00:24:01.07\00:24:03.74
Jason: Oh, wow...
00:24:03.77\00:24:05.37
So you trained before
you got into the Air force,
00:24:05.41\00:24:08.38
you trained for
the Air force. Yes.
00:24:08.41\00:24:10.85
Wow. I trained and I studied
00:24:10.88\00:24:12.88
a lot of different
things on the internet
00:24:12.91\00:24:15.48
to do well in the
ASVAB test and so forth
00:24:15.52\00:24:17.99
to get a certain job
and I joined the Air force
00:24:18.02\00:24:21.12
in a while, I became an
00:24:21.16\00:24:22.66
Aviation Resource
Management Specialist
00:24:22.69\00:24:24.56
and I began to work
with MQ-9 and MQ-1 drones,
00:24:24.59\00:24:29.10
remote controlled
planes, Hmmm... hmmm...
00:24:29.13\00:24:31.93
and I started
off in North Carolina
00:24:32.00\00:24:34.74
and I moved to
Lackland Air force Base
00:24:34.77\00:24:38.44
in San Antonio Texas
00:24:38.47\00:24:39.87
and it was there
that I began to really
00:24:39.91\00:24:43.31
search a little bit more so...
00:24:43.35\00:24:45.38
So what happened, tell
us about the Air force.
00:24:45.41\00:24:47.85
So what happened
was when I moved States,
00:24:47.88\00:24:50.29
I felt like I was
going under my own
00:24:50.32\00:24:52.65
and I could get away
from some of these things
00:24:52.69\00:24:54.46
I just wanted to go,
00:24:54.49\00:24:56.02
I signed up hoping that they
would deploy me immediately,
00:24:56.06\00:24:58.59
I can get away and no
one knows who I am and
00:24:58.63\00:25:01.26
get out of the
stuff that I was in,
00:25:01.30\00:25:02.76
but then going to
further my training in Texas,
00:25:02.80\00:25:05.47
it was interesting
because I was in a dorm
00:25:05.50\00:25:08.67
there were over
20,000 soldiers in one base
00:25:08.70\00:25:11.84
one big training base,
00:25:11.87\00:25:13.51
and in my dormitory,
there were about 60 men
00:25:13.54\00:25:15.78
in one big dorm,
00:25:15.84\00:25:17.18
the beds were like
this close to each other,
00:25:17.21\00:25:19.35
and on the
weekends, during training,
00:25:19.38\00:25:21.68
on the weekends,
00:25:21.72\00:25:23.28
every soldier
has a specific duty
00:25:23.32\00:25:26.45
to keep yourself occupied
and busy on the weekends,
00:25:26.49\00:25:29.32
and so, out of all 60 soldiers,
me and one other soldier
00:25:29.39\00:25:34.46
are selected to
become Chapel Guides.
00:25:34.50\00:25:36.77
Jason: That's
not by coincidence.
00:25:36.80\00:25:40.54
That's right, Chapel Guides,
00:25:40.57\00:25:42.64
now what was that,
what did that entail?
00:25:42.67\00:25:44.47
So, I'm an
Atheist... as a Chapel Guide
00:25:44.54\00:25:46.31
in the Military, I
can't ask for a different duty
00:25:46.34\00:25:49.91
that's my
mandatory weekend duty,
00:25:49.94\00:25:52.21
and what you have
to do is basically
00:25:52.25\00:25:54.42
go to different dorm
buildings on the base
00:25:54.45\00:25:56.92
and march groups of soldiers,
groups of Baptist soldiers,
00:25:56.99\00:26:01.96
Catholic, Methodist, Buddhist,
Wiccan and Adventist soldiers
00:26:01.99\00:26:06.96
to their respective
chapels on the weekends.
00:26:07.00\00:26:09.06
Wow! and that
was your assignment.
00:26:09.10\00:26:12.63
That was my assignment and
I grieved every moment of it
00:26:12.67\00:26:15.10
and I thought, "Why
do I have to do this,
00:26:15.14\00:26:17.04
I don't even believe in
God, and I'm marching soldiers
00:26:17.07\00:26:19.97
to their chapels so that
they can worship their God"
00:26:20.01\00:26:22.88
I didn't understand it.
00:26:22.91\00:26:24.25
Now how did your
family feel when you decided
00:26:24.28\00:26:26.51
that you were going
to go to the Air force,
00:26:26.55\00:26:28.92
was there any
backlash from that?
00:26:28.95\00:26:32.45
You know, there wasn't
much opposition from my family
00:26:32.49\00:26:37.96
to go into the
military, in fact,
00:26:37.99\00:26:39.46
my family being
predominantly Jamaican,
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.63
they thought it was
an honor to the family
00:26:41.66\00:26:44.27
for the son to go
into the armed forces
00:26:44.30\00:26:46.94
and represent the
culture and so forth and
00:26:46.97\00:26:49.54
and so... yeah...
00:26:49.60\00:26:51.37
So you were walking these guys
00:26:51.44\00:26:54.94
to their respective
worship places, what happened?
00:26:54.98\00:26:58.91
And so, I... during that time
00:26:58.95\00:27:02.22
my mom had communicated to
me that she was praying for me
00:27:02.25\00:27:04.49
and I'm an angry
Atheist at the time
00:27:04.55\00:27:06.92
this was 2008, and I
told her and I told others
00:27:06.96\00:27:11.59
"Stop praying for me,
00:27:11.63\00:27:12.96
I don't want anything
to do with your prayers"
00:27:12.99\00:27:14.33
and so...
marching these soldiers
00:27:14.36\00:27:17.53
I pick up Catholic soldiers
and Baptist soldiers on Sundays
00:27:17.57\00:27:24.01
and march them to their chapels
00:27:24.04\00:27:25.77
and there's no
talking taking place
00:27:25.81\00:27:27.88
while marching them,
"hup, two, three, four... "
00:27:27.94\00:27:30.41
and there's no
smiling in training
00:27:30.45\00:27:33.78
and if you even smirk,
you're in huge trouble.
00:27:33.82\00:27:37.39
You can't even smile?
00:27:37.42\00:27:39.39
There's no smiling,
you don't show your teeth
00:27:39.42\00:27:41.72
Jason: Wow! Chris:
and so these soldiers
00:27:41.79\00:27:44.09
they can't look at me in
the eyes, that's my duty,
00:27:44.13\00:27:46.96
they're new...
coming into the base...
00:27:47.00\00:27:49.70
and I am a more
"seasoned trainee"
00:27:49.73\00:27:52.40
having been there
for a couple of months,
00:27:52.43\00:27:53.80
so these newbies coming in,
00:27:53.84\00:27:55.64
they can't share
their faith with me,
00:27:55.67\00:27:58.64
they can't say
anything to me, and so,
00:27:58.67\00:28:01.54
when I take them to their
chapel services on the weekends,
00:28:01.58\00:28:05.75
out of hatred toward religion,
I'd stand outside of the chapel
00:28:05.78\00:28:09.92
and I was instructed
to stand inside with them
00:28:09.95\00:28:13.36
but I didn't want
to hear about anything
00:28:13.39\00:28:14.72
about the God of the Bible,
00:28:14.76\00:28:16.09
so I'd stand
outside of the chapel,
00:28:16.12\00:28:17.76
at attention for about two
hours just standing up straight
00:28:17.79\00:28:22.00
waiting for them to
finish their service.
00:28:22.06\00:28:23.80
Wow! why do you think
you were so angry about God?
00:28:23.83\00:28:28.30
I think, one of the
number one things was that my...
00:28:28.34\00:28:32.77
I kind of looked at it like,
00:28:32.81\00:28:35.21
"Oh, the
Christians took my mom away"
00:28:35.24\00:28:38.61
so that gave me... I
was very disappointed
00:28:38.65\00:28:42.75
and I thought,
00:28:42.78\00:28:44.12
"How can she be
deceived so easily
00:28:44.15\00:28:45.49
to go to this church and then
to get baptized and then... "
00:28:45.52\00:28:48.29
I was really
upset. Hmmm... hmmm...
00:28:48.32\00:28:51.79
Yeah. It almost makes me wonder
00:28:51.83\00:28:55.26
because you know,
00:28:55.30\00:28:56.93
your mom was
working all these jobs
00:28:56.97\00:28:59.20
and then she...
somebody witnessed to her,
00:28:59.23\00:29:01.37
a pastor
witnessed to her at the Bank
00:29:01.40\00:29:03.14
which goes to show,
that you can be a witness,
00:29:03.20\00:29:05.51
a light and a witness
anywhere but it makes me wonder
00:29:05.54\00:29:09.68
because she accepted Jesus,
she started going to church
00:29:09.71\00:29:13.82
and everything
and she was excited,
00:29:13.85\00:29:15.55
you saw this excitement in her,
00:29:15.58\00:29:17.22
it's like, it
didn't spark a curiosity
00:29:17.25\00:29:21.29
for you to go with her
00:29:21.32\00:29:22.66
but it drove you in
the opposite direction.
00:29:22.69\00:29:26.66
And so it was... it was
actually when I was there
00:29:26.70\00:29:31.57
in training, and
then I was also instructed
00:29:31.60\00:29:37.47
to go and pick up
Adventist soldiers,
00:29:37.51\00:29:39.34
so my fellow soldier and
I would go to these dorms,
00:29:39.37\00:29:43.14
and go to the Front Desk
and ask for the Adventists
00:29:43.18\00:29:46.01
but I didn't know who
they were there at the time
00:29:46.05\00:29:48.85
I had a long list of
different religions to ask for,
00:29:48.88\00:29:51.39
and I asked the
Front Desk person,
00:29:51.42\00:29:53.59
"I'm looking for the
Seventh-day Adventures
00:29:53.66\00:29:55.22
can you call them
over the intercom"
00:29:55.29\00:29:58.59
Yes, "Looking for the
Seventh-day Adventures,
00:29:58.63\00:30:00.53
please come to the front desk"
00:30:00.60\00:30:02.76
and so I get the
"Seventh-day Adventures"
00:30:02.80\00:30:04.13
to come forward and march them
to their Adventist Services.
00:30:04.17\00:30:06.40
"Seventh-day Adventures"
00:30:06.43\00:30:07.77
I've heard
"Seventh-day Advantages"
00:30:07.80\00:30:10.41
which kind of is...
that's a good one...
00:30:10.44\00:30:12.84
"Seventh-day
Adventures" that is so funny!
00:30:12.87\00:30:15.18
And so there was... now...
having gone through some time
00:30:15.21\00:30:19.65
when I was here at the base,
it was in the middle of July
00:30:19.68\00:30:24.09
in San Antonio, Texas,
00:30:24.12\00:30:25.45
and it was so hot
outside of the chapels
00:30:25.49\00:30:27.52
that I was
getting a little bit weary
00:30:27.56\00:30:29.62
standing outside for
two hours at attention,
00:30:29.66\00:30:31.59
in the heat, so I said,
"Okay, I'm going to go inside"
00:30:31.63\00:30:34.66
and I went inside one
of the Adventist Chapels,
00:30:34.73\00:30:36.56
and sat at the very back,
00:30:36.60\00:30:37.93
not wanting to
hear anything about God
00:30:37.97\00:30:39.93
and I was waiting for my
soldiers to finish their service
00:30:39.97\00:30:42.70
and then come and go back home,
00:30:42.74\00:30:44.11
and I had heard
messages on Daniel chapter 2
00:30:44.14\00:30:47.54
and it really...
00:30:47.58\00:30:50.98
that really sparked my curiosity
00:30:51.01\00:30:53.08
because in some of the
Military Training I had heard
00:30:53.11\00:30:55.65
of some of the Kingdoms,
00:30:55.68\00:30:57.02
Babylon, Medo-Persia,
Greece and then Rome,
00:30:57.05\00:30:58.72
I had heard some of
these things before,
00:30:58.75\00:31:00.66
and I heard that message
being presented in the church,
00:31:00.69\00:31:03.56
and I thought, "How
did they come up with this,
00:31:03.63\00:31:06.09
is that in the Bible?
that can't be in the Bible,"
00:31:06.13\00:31:08.60
so that kind of got me thinking.
00:31:08.63\00:31:10.77
Hmmm... hmmm... look
at God, look at how...
00:31:10.80\00:31:14.84
God knew how to reach you,
00:31:14.87\00:31:16.57
he knew
00:31:16.60\00:31:18.04
to have you of all
people leading other soldiers
00:31:18.07\00:31:23.01
to a service that
you... the heat was so intense
00:31:23.04\00:31:27.92
you had to go
inside and sit and listen?
00:31:27.95\00:31:30.69
Jason: He has a sense of humor.
00:31:30.72\00:31:32.05
He does, He really
does, God is amazing
00:31:32.09\00:31:35.52
so, you got... you sat in there
00:31:35.56\00:31:38.46
and your
interest was peaked, Yes.
00:31:38.49\00:31:41.36
you decided you wanted to
see what was this image about,
00:31:41.43\00:31:44.70
what this whole
Daniel 2 situation about
00:31:44.73\00:31:48.14
and so... you began...
00:31:48.20\00:31:49.54
did you begin to
study at that point?
00:31:49.57\00:31:50.94
At that point, I began...
I got a Bible on the base
00:31:50.97\00:31:56.21
and I began
looking for that chapter
00:31:56.24\00:31:57.98
that the pastor
was talking about
00:31:58.01\00:31:59.71
and I began searching on my own,
00:31:59.75\00:32:01.42
I didn't want anyone
to know that I was looking
00:32:01.45\00:32:03.72
in the Bible for that
stuff, Hmmm... hmmm...
00:32:03.75\00:32:05.95
so I would read it secretly
and in the middle of the night,
00:32:05.99\00:32:09.42
I would read it and try
and look for information,
00:32:09.46\00:32:12.16
and what they were talking about
in the church and so that...
00:32:12.19\00:32:14.96
I was very confused
00:32:15.00\00:32:20.27
because of what I
heard in the Adventist church
00:32:20.30\00:32:23.07
at the time on the
base, so I thought to myself,
00:32:23.10\00:32:26.44
"This is not as
emotionally based as I thought
00:32:26.47\00:32:29.68
this seems to
have some meat to it
00:32:29.71\00:32:31.48
this seems to have some
information or something there"
00:32:31.51\00:32:33.82
so, I began to
really look and yeah...
00:32:33.85\00:32:37.42
What was it like at
the base with religion,
00:32:37.45\00:32:41.52
in regards to
religion because I know that
00:32:41.56\00:32:45.53
it's like the mission,
the mission, the mission
00:32:45.56\00:32:48.66
and you are... you
know... so what was it like
00:32:48.73\00:32:51.80
trying to walk with
Jesus at that point?
00:32:51.83\00:32:57.64
I think God really used
the negative aspect of it
00:32:57.67\00:33:03.04
to bring about His
will because in training,
00:33:03.08\00:33:06.45
the religion aspect of it,
00:33:06.48\00:33:08.45
the religion aspect of training
is not to encourage Christianity
00:33:08.48\00:33:11.95
it's just to
encourage you to have peace
00:33:11.99\00:33:14.12
because the
training is very intense,
00:33:14.16\00:33:16.22
some of us were doing live
training in different countries,
00:33:16.26\00:33:20.10
in third-world countries and
it was during the time in 2009
00:33:20.13\00:33:23.97
that I was in a place
that I cannot speak of
00:33:24.00\00:33:26.43
where I was doing live
training and they encourage you
00:33:26.50\00:33:32.81
to go to the
chapel and to sing a song,
00:33:32.84\00:33:35.41
to kind of help
you with the stress
00:33:35.44\00:33:37.98
so it's not so much...
00:33:38.01\00:33:39.58
the agenda isn't so much about
00:33:39.61\00:33:42.98
getting to know Jesus,
00:33:43.02\00:33:44.89
it's just about coping
with your internal stress.
00:33:44.95\00:33:48.29
Yeah, to keep you from
having a nervous breakdown.
00:33:48.32\00:33:51.66
Basically... I agree...
00:33:51.69\00:33:53.80
So what happened as you
00:33:53.83\00:33:55.80
continued to go
to these services,
00:33:55.83\00:33:58.73
as you continued to
study on the down low
00:33:58.77\00:34:02.77
what happened,
what happened to you?
00:34:02.80\00:34:04.61
I began to experience a little
bit of a conversion on my own
00:34:04.64\00:34:09.51
and I began to study
about the Sabbath and so forth
00:34:09.54\00:34:13.48
in the Bible,
and during that time
00:34:13.52\00:34:16.48
it was before that, actually,
I was doing some live training
00:34:16.52\00:34:19.99
in a place and I
saw so many things
00:34:20.02\00:34:23.32
that overwhelmed my conscience
00:34:23.36\00:34:28.43
and working with drones and
00:34:28.46\00:34:33.44
these remote controlled
planes, the purpose is to kill
00:34:33.47\00:34:39.87
and so you see a lot
of death at a young age
00:34:39.91\00:34:45.38
and the training
is very desensitizing
00:34:45.41\00:34:49.88
so that you don't really respond
to having a sense of conscience
00:34:49.95\00:34:53.32
towards those things
but having saw so much...
00:34:53.36\00:34:57.56
many times having
bullets flying past my ears,
00:34:57.63\00:35:01.70
there are not many
Atheists in that moment,
00:35:01.73\00:35:05.73
and so having seen
families exploding to pieces,
00:35:05.77\00:35:12.24
that is what
really got me thinking
00:35:12.27\00:35:15.54
and what's interesting
is that in the military,
00:35:15.58\00:35:17.81
when you see these things or
00:35:17.85\00:35:20.98
a lot of Christians who join
the military become Atheists
00:35:21.02\00:35:24.12
because they can't...
you can't deal with that,
00:35:24.15\00:35:26.09
and a lot of
Atheists are staunch Atheists
00:35:26.12\00:35:30.03
and so... but what I saw,
00:35:30.06\00:35:33.03
rather than encouraging me
to become more of a staunch
00:35:33.06\00:35:36.33
Atheist, it
encouraged me to search more,
00:35:36.36\00:35:39.07
I didn't understand...
how was this happening?
00:35:39.10\00:35:43.20
all this blood, all this death,
00:35:43.24\00:35:46.74
I did not understand how...
00:35:46.78\00:35:50.25
I knew that there
seemed to be something
00:35:50.28\00:35:52.28
in that moment,
00:35:52.31\00:35:53.82
I didn't really
understand how to articulate it
00:35:53.85\00:35:56.12
but there seemed to
be something happening
00:35:56.18\00:35:58.42
behind human eyes,
00:35:58.45\00:36:00.22
or some great controversy
happening between good and evil
00:36:00.26\00:36:02.56
and so you could
see that in these events
00:36:02.59\00:36:05.06
and that is what really
got me searching even more
00:36:05.09\00:36:07.66
and so I then called my
mom, who, I had before told her,
00:36:07.70\00:36:10.93
"Never pray for me,
00:36:10.97\00:36:12.30
don't ever tell me
you're praying for me,"
00:36:12.33\00:36:14.70
I then told her,
00:36:14.74\00:36:16.07
"Look I'm
thankful for your prayers,
00:36:16.10\00:36:17.44
and I'm going to consider
the Christian experience. "
00:36:17.47\00:36:20.88
What was her reaction to that?
00:36:20.94\00:36:23.28
She was overwhelmed...
00:36:23.31\00:36:24.65
she was overwhelmed,
she didn't really understand
00:36:24.68\00:36:28.22
but I told her before
00:36:28.25\00:36:33.39
that I would
never, ever visit a church
00:36:33.42\00:36:35.96
and, of course, here I am
at the base visiting churches
00:36:35.99\00:36:38.89
I told her I never
would on my own will,
00:36:38.93\00:36:42.96
and so, out of my own
will out of deep curiosity,
00:36:43.03\00:36:47.24
because of what I had
seen bothering my conscience,
00:36:47.27\00:36:51.21
out of my own will, I
wanted to visit her church
00:36:51.27\00:36:55.18
the one she attended, and so,
00:36:55.21\00:36:58.25
I then went to North Carolina
00:36:58.31\00:37:01.28
and I went to church
with her for the first time,
00:37:01.32\00:37:05.02
I was very skeptical
and I just wanted to know,
00:37:05.05\00:37:08.76
"How is she so happy?"
00:37:08.79\00:37:12.06
before I was
antagonistic about her happiness
00:37:12.09\00:37:14.93
and now I was kind
of receptive toward it,
00:37:14.96\00:37:17.80
and so, at that
church, that Sabbath,
00:37:17.83\00:37:20.17
one of the
Elders gave a testimony
00:37:20.20\00:37:22.50
and it was there...
00:37:22.54\00:37:24.11
he gave his testimony
about how God brought him
00:37:24.17\00:37:26.54
out of a life of drug addictions
and promiscuity and so forth
00:37:26.57\00:37:30.18
similar to mine, that
I was kind of "still in"
00:37:30.21\00:37:33.21
so that really... that
really touched me a lot
00:37:33.25\00:37:36.22
and it was that moment I
gave my heart to God in 2009.
00:37:36.25\00:37:39.35
Amen, so you went to
church with your mom,
00:37:39.42\00:37:42.52
and while there,
00:37:42.59\00:37:44.96
someone gave a testimony
that mirrored your life,
00:37:44.99\00:37:48.46
and that just drew
you close to the Lord.
00:37:48.50\00:37:52.87
Chris: Yes.
00:37:52.90\00:37:54.24
Jason: I had a chance to read
an article about your journey
00:37:54.27\00:37:57.87
and I recall
reading something about
00:37:57.91\00:38:01.98
when that experience
was shared and you...
00:38:02.04\00:38:04.75
there was still kind of a
00:38:04.81\00:38:07.62
rebellious part in you
00:38:07.65\00:38:10.42
and so you went... when
they did the alter call,
00:38:10.45\00:38:13.49
touch on that part.
00:38:13.52\00:38:15.72
Yes,
00:38:15.76\00:38:17.09
because I had been
wrestling for so much before
00:38:17.13\00:38:19.73
I went to church that
Sabbath, I was more receptive
00:38:19.76\00:38:22.56
and the Elder gave an Alter Call
00:38:22.60\00:38:24.83
asking for people to
give their hearts to Christ
00:38:24.87\00:38:28.47
for the first time,
and it was very difficult,
00:38:28.50\00:38:32.04
I was very
interested and compelled
00:38:32.07\00:38:34.21
to stand up and
give my heart to God
00:38:34.24\00:38:36.38
when I stood up
for the Alter Call,
00:38:36.41\00:38:38.48
pride settled in immediately,
I thought I could never do this,
00:38:38.51\00:38:42.62
wait... back up and
think twice about this,
00:38:42.65\00:38:44.75
I have too many
things going on for myself,
00:38:44.79\00:38:47.79
I'm in the Military,
I have a good career,
00:38:47.82\00:38:50.76
I have all this
money, I bought this new car,
00:38:50.79\00:38:52.83
I have too many
things going on right now,
00:38:52.86\00:38:55.36
I cannot give my
heart to God at this time
00:38:55.40\00:38:57.87
so when I stood up
00:38:57.90\00:38:59.40
I immediately ran to
the bathroom instead,
00:38:59.43\00:39:03.10
because people are watching,
00:39:03.14\00:39:05.97
I'm like, "No, I
cannot do this right now,
00:39:06.01\00:39:08.68
go back and think again,
00:39:08.74\00:39:10.41
think logically here,"
00:39:10.45\00:39:12.05
I ran to the
bathroom, locked the door
00:39:12.11\00:39:15.95
thinking no one was
going to come find me here,
00:39:15.98\00:39:20.29
and I was just... and
the reality of God's love
00:39:20.32\00:39:24.59
that he was
sharing in the sermon,
00:39:24.66\00:39:26.53
had hit me
harder when I had ran...
00:39:26.56\00:39:28.73
and so I just fell to my knees,
00:39:28.76\00:39:30.87
and I was like, "Okay,
I'm done fighting this,
00:39:30.90\00:39:35.70
I've been fighting
this for a long time,"
00:39:35.74\00:39:38.74
and so I, in my
own heart I told God,
00:39:38.77\00:39:41.71
in my own little ways...
"If you exist or whatever,
00:39:41.74\00:39:44.05
I'm just going to accept it,
00:39:44.08\00:39:45.65
I'm going to
accept you" and so I did.
00:39:45.68\00:39:49.78
And at that moment,
was there an overwhelming
00:39:49.82\00:39:52.72
peace that came over you
00:39:52.75\00:39:54.52
after you made that
decision to accept Christ?
00:39:54.56\00:39:58.49
Yes, there were two feelings
fighting for the victory,
00:39:58.53\00:40:03.40
one was peace and one was fear,
00:40:03.47\00:40:05.37
having peace that
I've accepted Christ
00:40:05.40\00:40:09.30
and that He is going to take...
00:40:09.34\00:40:11.81
He is going to take
my life into His hands
00:40:11.84\00:40:14.24
and I have nothing to
worry about for the future,
00:40:14.28\00:40:16.04
I have nothing to
fear for the future...
00:40:16.08\00:40:18.08
and then the fear,
that, whoa, whoa, whoa...
00:40:18.11\00:40:20.48
"What if I still want to do
00:40:20.52\00:40:22.12
some of these
things I was doing before,"
00:40:22.15\00:40:23.52
Jason: It's that old man in you.
00:40:23.55\00:40:25.02
I don't want to...
00:40:25.05\00:40:26.39
"As Christians is it
going to be boring or fun
00:40:26.42\00:40:28.52
or I can still go
to these parties and
00:40:28.56\00:40:30.79
can I still go to these clubs
00:40:30.83\00:40:32.73
and get drunk with
my friends or not?"
00:40:32.76\00:40:35.16
and so, even after
the day of baptism,
00:40:35.20\00:40:37.63
which was June 21st, 2009,
00:40:37.67\00:40:39.77
even after the
very day of baptism,
00:40:39.80\00:40:42.90
I was... there were
several others getting baptized
00:40:42.94\00:40:47.31
that same day,
00:40:47.34\00:40:48.88
and when the person
that was going before me
00:40:48.91\00:40:52.91
was getting
baptized, me being next,
00:40:52.98\00:40:55.08
I left the
church, out of fear again,
00:40:55.12\00:40:57.19
I said, "No, I can't do this,
I have to think critically,
00:40:57.22\00:41:00.76
I just don't want
to give up my 'stuff'
00:41:00.79\00:41:05.39
I don't want to
give up my girlfriend
00:41:05.43\00:41:09.96
or the clubs or the
drinking and the parties"
00:41:10.00\00:41:14.17
and so, I left the church
00:41:14.20\00:41:15.60
and it was thunderstorming
and raining so bad that day,
00:41:15.64\00:41:19.61
I left the church and I was
00:41:19.64\00:41:21.51
walking between cars
in this huge parking lot
00:41:21.54\00:41:23.65
and basically
hiding from everyone again
00:41:23.71\00:41:25.71
hiding from God, you
know, hiding from people,
00:41:25.75\00:41:28.98
and I was fighting it
00:41:29.02\00:41:30.62
even to the day of
baptism to the very moment,
00:41:30.69\00:41:32.89
I was fighting it,
fighting it, fighting it,
00:41:32.92\00:41:35.82
and I got into the
car of a friend of mine
00:41:35.86\00:41:38.33
in this parking lot,
in front of the church
00:41:38.36\00:41:40.80
where they're getting baptized,
and I stooped down in the seat,
00:41:40.83\00:41:45.00
and I was like,
"No, I can't do this,"
00:41:45.03\00:41:47.00
and I was hiding
under the steering wheel
00:41:47.04\00:41:49.07
hoping no one could find me,
00:41:49.10\00:41:50.51
hoping no one would find me,
00:41:50.54\00:41:51.87
and I would see people walking
out of the church looking for me
00:41:51.91\00:41:56.41
because it was my
time to get baptized,
00:41:56.44\00:41:57.78
they were looking for me,
and saying, "Where is Chris?"
00:41:57.81\00:41:59.61
and I was hiding,
hiding, I did not want to do it,
00:41:59.68\00:42:01.95
but one of the Elders...
00:42:01.98\00:42:04.79
the Elder who
preached that Sabbath
00:42:04.82\00:42:06.15
came out looking
for me, for some reason,
00:42:06.19\00:42:08.49
once he came out of the church,
00:42:08.52\00:42:10.33
he made direct
eye contact with me
00:42:10.36\00:42:12.53
even though I was
hiding in the car,
00:42:12.56\00:42:14.60
way in the back
of the parking lot,
00:42:14.63\00:42:16.56
he saw me immediately and
he came to me and asked me,
00:42:16.60\00:42:19.83
"Chris, what are
you waiting for?"
00:42:19.87\00:42:21.70
and so I knew to get
up and to stop hesitating
00:42:21.77\00:42:25.11
and so by God's grace
I was baptized that day.
00:42:25.14\00:42:28.44
Jason: Praise the Lord.
00:42:28.48\00:42:29.81
Amen, so what happened
after you got baptized that day
00:42:29.84\00:42:33.01
how did your life change?
00:42:33.08\00:42:35.55
It changed tremendously,
00:42:35.58\00:42:37.95
I began to have
more peace of mind
00:42:38.02\00:42:42.46
and I began to, through Christ,
00:42:42.49\00:42:46.90
to be little more
victorious over the fears I had
00:42:46.93\00:42:48.93
before giving my
heart to Him fully
00:42:48.96\00:42:51.17
I went back to training
literally 24 hours after baptism
00:42:51.20\00:42:57.81
so I had no
mentorship, no one to tell me,
00:42:57.84\00:43:01.18
"Hey, you're a new Christian,
let us help you along the way,
00:43:01.21\00:43:04.51
if you stumble, we'll
help you," this and that,
00:43:04.55\00:43:06.65
or "we'll nurture
you," I had nothing,
00:43:06.68\00:43:08.72
so going back into a road of,
00:43:08.75\00:43:10.99
going back into
the Military setting,
00:43:11.05\00:43:15.12
back into training,
00:43:15.16\00:43:16.49
it was
difficult... very difficult,
00:43:16.52\00:43:19.96
I was doing more
training in San Antonio, Texas,
00:43:20.00\00:43:26.97
and it was there that I began
to try and pray on my own and
00:43:27.00\00:43:31.11
I didn't know what I was doing
00:43:31.14\00:43:32.47
the soldiers who were in my
dorm began to make fun of me
00:43:32.51\00:43:38.18
and a lot of
them being Atheists,
00:43:38.21\00:43:39.78
they said, "Why are you praying,
00:43:39.81\00:43:41.32
you're stupid, you
shouldn't believe in God"
00:43:41.35\00:43:44.65
and it was very
difficult, but thankfully,
00:43:44.69\00:43:47.39
out of the 60
soldiers that were there,
00:43:47.42\00:43:50.09
most being Atheists,
00:43:50.13\00:43:51.56
there were two that were
searching on their own as well,
00:43:51.59\00:43:56.67
but hadn't
communicated that to anyone
00:43:56.70\00:43:59.63
because it's such
a tight, political,
00:43:59.67\00:44:02.57
militaristic environment,
00:44:02.60\00:44:04.54
that it's difficult to
share spiritual things,
00:44:04.57\00:44:06.98
feelings, you're
looked upon as "weak,"
00:44:07.01\00:44:09.94
you have to run ten miles a
day, do hundreds of push-ups and
00:44:09.98\00:44:14.22
you do all these things,
you have to be serious and
00:44:14.25\00:44:17.25
keep what is called
"a military bearing"
00:44:17.29\00:44:19.02
there's no showing
of emotions and feelings
00:44:19.05\00:44:20.79
and believing in
Jesus, none of that,
00:44:20.82\00:44:22.66
and so, it was difficult
for me to do that there,
00:44:22.69\00:44:25.29
but by God's grace
I had a friend of mine
00:44:25.36\00:44:30.57
named Lee, who
noticed that I was praying
00:44:30.60\00:44:35.77
and getting all this opposition
from my fellow soldiers,
00:44:35.80\00:44:38.67
and he asked me, "What
is it that you believe?"
00:44:38.71\00:44:41.54
and the guy who was
marching the soldiers
00:44:41.58\00:44:44.91
to the Adventist Chapels, now
I'm going there with him as well
00:44:44.95\00:44:47.62
one of the guys, he asks,
"Can I go with you as well?"
00:44:47.65\00:44:51.65
he was baptized into
the church by God's grace.
00:44:51.69\00:44:54.96
Amen, so your light was
shining even there, yeah.
00:44:54.99\00:44:58.26
Chris: By God's grace.
00:44:58.29\00:44:59.69
There was a
miracle that took place
00:44:59.73\00:45:01.60
but there was a struggle
that happened prior to it
00:45:01.63\00:45:05.63
with you trying to gain the
acceptance and get Sabbath off
00:45:05.67\00:45:11.44
talk to our Viewers about that,
00:45:11.47\00:45:14.01
what took place when
you tried to go to your
00:45:14.04\00:45:18.11
superiors to get Sabbath off.
00:45:18.15\00:45:19.88
Yeah, so I had moved
from Lackland Air force Base
00:45:19.91\00:45:22.78
to Keesler Air
force Base in Mississippi
00:45:22.82\00:45:25.45
and then to
Holloman Air force Base
00:45:25.49\00:45:27.89
Alamogordo, New Mexico,
00:45:27.92\00:45:29.26
and it was in New
Mexico, kind of like a desert,
00:45:29.29\00:45:32.09
I was there and I began
to really plead with God
00:45:32.13\00:45:34.93
because I was
working every Sabbath,
00:45:34.96\00:45:36.30
and now, this was
2010 now in New Mexico,
00:45:36.33\00:45:38.70
and I had to work
every Friday nights,
00:45:38.73\00:45:41.90
every Saturday
morning, all Saturday,
00:45:41.94\00:45:45.07
and I realized that the
Bible was simple and clear
00:45:45.11\00:45:48.94
that on Sabbath I was
to cease from all work,
00:45:48.98\00:45:51.95
and I began to ask God,
"What is it that I can do?"
00:45:52.01\00:45:55.32
I am under military authority
00:45:55.35\00:45:57.59
I can't just ask and
get Sabbath off and...
00:45:57.62\00:46:00.12
"Oh sure," that
doesn't happen that way,
00:46:00.16\00:46:02.56
so I didn't know what to do
00:46:02.59\00:46:04.46
so I went to my authorities,
I planned a meeting with them,
00:46:04.49\00:46:06.80
I was working for a
certain squadron on the base,
00:46:06.83\00:46:12.30
in New Mexico and I...
00:46:12.33\00:46:13.74
talking to my
colonels and my authorities,
00:46:13.77\00:46:16.40
I asked them at this meeting
if I could have Saturday off
00:46:16.44\00:46:21.81
and I communicated
that in a certain way
00:46:21.84\00:46:23.21
like in a military way,
00:46:23.24\00:46:24.58
"I need this time
off for these purposes,
00:46:24.61\00:46:26.41
this, this, this,
that... " and they said,
00:46:26.45\00:46:28.38
"No, the mission comes first,
you are Government property,
00:46:28.42\00:46:32.75
so everything that
you just said about your
00:46:32.79\00:46:35.22
'so called' Sabbath,
00:46:35.26\00:46:36.59
what you believe about
not coming to work... "
00:46:36.62\00:46:39.66
they said, "No, you
need to be here on Saturday,
00:46:39.69\00:46:41.70
so, your
religion, your spirituality,
00:46:41.73\00:46:45.00
that comes after the mission
is complete and successful,"
00:46:45.03\00:46:47.87
so I left that
meeting very perplexed,
00:46:47.90\00:46:52.21
very perplexed,
and I called my mother
00:46:52.24\00:46:56.51
who prayed for
me to be converted
00:46:56.54\00:46:59.98
I called her in a time of trial
00:47:00.02\00:47:03.42
and I asked her if she
could give me some insight
00:47:03.45\00:47:07.09
as to how I could
move through this...
00:47:07.12\00:47:09.46
how I can get Sabbaths off
or what was her spiritual advice
00:47:09.52\00:47:13.86
and it was in 2010 where I
was becoming more convicted
00:47:13.90\00:47:17.83
on the truths of the Bible,
that she was falling away,
00:47:17.87\00:47:21.77
and when I called her she said,
00:47:21.80\00:47:23.91
"Chris, I have gone
back to become an Atheist"
00:47:23.94\00:47:27.28
she said, "Chris, I
strongly encourage you
00:47:27.34\00:47:30.61
to leave everything,
everything I prayed for you for,
00:47:30.65\00:47:35.25
everything I
encouraged you to do, go back,"
00:47:35.28\00:47:38.12
it wasn't about the
church specifically,
00:47:38.15\00:47:41.02
it was about her
personal experience
00:47:41.06\00:47:43.89
and she said, "You know Chris,
00:47:43.93\00:47:45.29
I've given up on God,
I've given up on everything,
00:47:45.33\00:47:48.33
I'm going back" and she
encouraged me to go back
00:47:48.36\00:47:51.33
and... in fact...
00:47:51.37\00:47:53.00
communicated that
to my whole family
00:47:53.03\00:47:54.87
and so, when my
entire family found out
00:47:54.90\00:47:56.84
that I was trying
to keep the Sabbath
00:47:56.87\00:47:58.74
and wrestling with these issues,
00:47:58.77\00:48:01.31
my whole family agreed
00:48:01.34\00:48:03.24
that if I had
continued to be a Christian,
00:48:03.28\00:48:07.52
that they wanted
absolutely nothing to do with me
00:48:07.55\00:48:11.89
as a person, and as
a member of the family,
00:48:11.92\00:48:14.36
in fact, I was told,
by my own grandfather,
00:48:14.39\00:48:16.79
"I never want to see
you until the day I die,"
00:48:16.83\00:48:19.23
and so it was
pretty tough. Hmmm...
00:48:19.26\00:48:21.93
So you had the Air
force, you were in a crisis,
00:48:21.96\00:48:24.80
in the midst of a
crisis with the military,
00:48:24.83\00:48:27.60
and then you had your
family that essentially said,
00:48:27.64\00:48:31.14
"We want nothing
to do with you... "
00:48:31.17\00:48:33.78
and so, how did you feel,
00:48:33.84\00:48:36.91
were you just feeling totally
abandoned, where were you?
00:48:36.95\00:48:41.72
I felt totally
abandoned, totally ostracized,
00:48:41.78\00:48:43.99
I didn't know what to do
and I found a church nearby
00:48:44.05\00:48:50.89
and I talked to some friends
who were around my age group
00:48:50.93\00:48:55.00
and now that I look back I
know that they were kind of
00:48:55.06\00:48:59.13
nominal Christians,
00:48:59.17\00:49:01.47
but I asked them,
"What should I do?"
00:49:01.50\00:49:03.61
and they told me,
"Chris, if you're going to be
00:49:03.64\00:49:05.11
a Christian, if you're
going to be an Adventist,
00:49:05.14\00:49:06.47
it shouldn't be that difficult,
00:49:06.51\00:49:08.14
in order to be an Adventist,
00:49:08.18\00:49:09.81
you must learn to
compromise your faith. "
00:49:09.84\00:49:13.65
Oh my! they gave
even worse advice.
00:49:13.68\00:49:17.49
That's horrible advice.
00:49:17.52\00:49:18.85
So not having family
support, not even having...
00:49:18.89\00:49:21.96
being a young person,
being a new Christian,
00:49:21.99\00:49:24.59
I'm taking anything
they tell me as truth,
00:49:24.63\00:49:27.00
"Okay, maybe they're right,
00:49:27.03\00:49:28.93
in the military,
what they said is right,"
00:49:28.96\00:49:30.77
but I began to read
the Bible more for myself,
00:49:30.80\00:49:33.23
and with serious intensity,
00:49:33.27\00:49:35.50
and I began to really
plead for God to give me
00:49:35.54\00:49:39.87
some encouragement,
and so, I had a dream,
00:49:39.91\00:49:43.95
and the Military
is a very tight system
00:49:43.98\00:49:47.98
so there's not much you
can do to maneuver through it,
00:49:48.02\00:49:49.75
I think, in that
light, I had a dream
00:49:49.78\00:49:52.69
and in this dream,
it was revealed to me
00:49:52.72\00:49:55.52
specifically how to maneuver
through the Military System
00:49:55.56\00:50:00.33
to get Sabbaths off,
and without going in detail
00:50:00.36\00:50:06.87
I understood, through the dream,
00:50:06.90\00:50:09.30
things that were
going on in the System
00:50:09.37\00:50:12.07
that would put me in a
bad place in the last days,
00:50:12.14\00:50:15.58
and so, it was a
very intense dream
00:50:15.61\00:50:19.28
that I had that even...
I'll never forget to this day
00:50:19.31\00:50:24.39
but because of the dream,
00:50:24.42\00:50:26.29
I knew that I had
to study the Bible,
00:50:26.32\00:50:28.96
and inspired
writings as much as possible,
00:50:28.99\00:50:34.20
in order to understand
how to get out of the Military
00:50:34.23\00:50:37.43
because something was coming,
00:50:37.47\00:50:39.13
and so I scheduled another
meeting with my authorities,
00:50:39.17\00:50:43.44
and having read in the Bible,
00:50:43.47\00:50:46.14
having asked God
for encouragement
00:50:46.17\00:50:48.64
I was asking God,
00:50:48.68\00:50:50.15
"What moves do I
make what do I do,
00:50:50.18\00:50:53.42
facing this opposition
from the Military authorities,"
00:50:53.45\00:50:56.38
and I read in Acts 5:29,
00:50:56.42\00:50:59.79
where I saw what
Peter and the Apostles did
00:50:59.82\00:51:03.63
when they were faced with
opposition in their time as well
00:51:03.66\00:51:06.19
and Peter and the
Apostles told the Authorities,
00:51:06.23\00:51:08.66
"We ought to obey
God, rather than men"
00:51:08.70\00:51:10.73
Hmmm... hmmm... Yeah...
00:51:10.77\00:51:12.10
and even though my
authorities told me that
00:51:12.13\00:51:13.47
the mission comes first,
00:51:13.50\00:51:14.84
Matthew 6:24 says, and 33 says,
00:51:14.87\00:51:16.54
that "The kingdom
of God comes first"
00:51:16.57\00:51:18.61
and that "No man
can serve two masters"
00:51:18.64\00:51:21.24
so I knew to go to
my Authorities this time
00:51:21.28\00:51:24.78
and to ask more
firmly for Saturdays off,
00:51:24.81\00:51:28.25
and tell them that I was
convicted upon the Bible,
00:51:28.28\00:51:31.15
and so they said,
"No" again, they said,
00:51:31.19\00:51:34.02
"In fact, if you want to
keep your Saturday that bad,
00:51:34.06\00:51:39.79
if you do not come
to work on Saturday,
00:51:39.86\00:51:42.56
we're going to send you
to prison for two years,"
00:51:42.60\00:51:44.80
Wow! so what did you do?
00:51:44.83\00:51:47.90
And so, they gave me
two weeks, they said,
00:51:47.94\00:51:52.87
"We'll give you two weeks
to think and recant your faith,
00:51:52.91\00:51:55.01
to think, reevaluate
everything you've said,
00:51:55.04\00:51:58.41
everything you've come
across, everything you believe,
00:51:58.45\00:52:00.95
and go back
00:52:00.98\00:52:02.88
to why you're here,
00:52:02.92\00:52:04.25
why you're here for the mission,
00:52:04.29\00:52:06.22
if you don't come
to work on Saturday,
00:52:06.25\00:52:10.23
and you want to follow
through with this belief,
00:52:10.26\00:52:13.16
we'll let you keep the
Sabbath behind prison bars. "
00:52:13.19\00:52:16.06
Hmmm... And so for two weeks,
00:52:16.10\00:52:18.53
it got really intense,
00:52:18.57\00:52:20.64
I actually had to
illegally escape the base
00:52:20.67\00:52:24.07
because my immediate supervisor
00:52:24.11\00:52:28.24
would come to my
apartment on the base
00:52:28.28\00:52:31.41
almost knocking my door down
looking for me on the Sabbath,
00:52:31.45\00:52:34.35
because I had to be at
work for emergency purposes,
00:52:34.38\00:52:37.65
for serving on the mission.
00:52:37.69\00:52:39.45
Where would you
go, when you escaped,
00:52:39.49\00:52:41.92
where did you go to?
00:52:41.96\00:52:43.73
I actually escaped the base
and I went to a friend's house
00:52:43.76\00:52:50.27
some friends who I met
00:52:50.30\00:52:52.30
in the Adventist
Church nearby in New Mexico,
00:52:52.33\00:52:55.14
and they offered their
home to me to come and stay
00:52:55.17\00:52:57.71
if I had any emergency
situations which... that was one
00:52:57.74\00:53:01.24
leaving the base so they
couldn't find me on Sabbath
00:53:01.28\00:53:04.55
or they'll pull me
into work in handcuffs.
00:53:04.58\00:53:07.85
So, how did it
work out, what happened?
00:53:07.88\00:53:10.95
Because of the threats
00:53:10.99\00:53:13.46
and because I knew how tight
the communication system was
00:53:13.49\00:53:15.96
on the base, I had to
hide from Security Forces
00:53:15.99\00:53:21.80
in the mountains of New
Mexico for several Sabbaths,
00:53:21.83\00:53:27.50
all Saturday afternoon
having escaped the base
00:53:27.54\00:53:34.41
going into the mountains
and hiding from all Air force
00:53:34.44\00:53:38.85
police. But then
you'd go back on Monday?
00:53:38.88\00:53:40.52
I'd go back on Sunday
with more ramifications
00:53:40.55\00:53:46.52
and what
happened those two weeks,
00:53:46.55\00:53:49.82
because of my illegal move,
00:53:49.86\00:53:54.26
I disobeyed military authority
by not showing up to work,
00:53:54.30\00:53:58.03
because of the move
that I made to follow God
00:53:58.07\00:54:02.77
and do what God had said,
they gave me something called,
00:54:02.80\00:54:08.81
a "Mental Evaluation"
00:54:08.84\00:54:10.18
because they
knew that in training,
00:54:10.21\00:54:12.38
the training is so intense,
00:54:12.41\00:54:14.62
so that you don't
have these moments
00:54:14.65\00:54:17.29
nothing shakes
you, nothing moves you,
00:54:17.32\00:54:19.89
you don't get caught up in some
00:54:19.95\00:54:21.62
emotional thing or
some religious thing,
00:54:21.66\00:54:24.39
and so, because of
what happened to me,
00:54:24.46\00:54:26.70
they thought I had
some mental problem
00:54:26.76\00:54:30.03
and so they
planned to hospitalize me
00:54:30.07\00:54:33.00
by giving me a
mental evaluation,
00:54:33.03\00:54:35.90
they put me in a small room
00:54:35.97\00:54:37.64
and they gave me
a 650-question Test
00:54:37.67\00:54:41.68
with two IQ tests, timed,
00:54:41.71\00:54:44.21
with authorities
standing on both sides
00:54:44.25\00:54:46.75
watching me the entire time
00:54:46.78\00:54:48.12
and it was to... the
questions were geared
00:54:48.15\00:54:51.85
to give me the
answer in such a way
00:54:51.89\00:54:54.39
that would encourage me,
00:54:54.42\00:54:57.03
that would encourage
them to... by the end result,
00:54:57.06\00:55:01.20
put me in the hospital,
PTSD or some mental issue,
00:55:01.23\00:55:05.33
and a few days later
00:55:05.37\00:55:08.27
they gave me a
nine-hour interrogation
00:55:08.30\00:55:09.77
with an Air force Lawyer,
00:55:09.80\00:55:11.14
where they questioned
me for nine hours straight,
00:55:11.17\00:55:14.24
on everything I
believed and why.
00:55:14.28\00:55:17.15
Wow! Wow... I
can't believe our time
00:55:17.18\00:55:19.98
is coming to a close,
tell us how did it end,
00:55:20.02\00:55:23.49
what happened, what
was the resolution of it?
00:55:23.52\00:55:26.76
How it ended? The
immediate supervisor
00:55:26.79\00:55:30.29
who was over my Prison Sentence,
00:55:30.33\00:55:32.19
24 hours before my
Prison Sentence began,
00:55:32.23\00:55:37.20
the guy in charge of it all
00:55:37.23\00:55:39.53
was sent to Iraq
out of an emergency
00:55:39.57\00:55:42.74
which happens all the time,
00:55:42.77\00:55:44.27
and the only other
person in my entire Unit,
00:55:44.31\00:55:47.34
who took his
position, was a Christian,
00:55:47.38\00:55:49.98
took his place,
00:55:50.01\00:55:51.48
and I was delivered from
all Military imprisonment.
00:55:51.51\00:55:54.95
The day before you
were to go into prison!
00:55:54.98\00:56:00.22
Yes. Look at God,
00:56:00.26\00:56:01.92
look at how God
saved you from that!
00:56:01.96\00:56:06.90
That's amazing, so
what are you doing now,
00:56:06.93\00:56:09.83
tell us what you're doing now.
00:56:09.86\00:56:11.20
So now I'm going
to Andrews University,
00:56:11.23\00:56:13.03
I'm doing a double
major in Spanish and Theology.
00:56:13.07\00:56:15.77
Oh! that's awesome,
what do you hope to do?
00:56:15.80\00:56:20.61
I'm not exactly sure yet
00:56:20.64\00:56:24.01
I just hope to help pastors,
help churches finish the work.
00:56:24.05\00:56:28.78
I really have a
passion to help train the laity
00:56:28.82\00:56:32.69
to do the work for themselves.
00:56:32.72\00:56:34.59
That is tremendous,
so if you had 30 seconds
00:56:34.62\00:56:38.73
to talk to a young
man who is battling with
00:56:38.79\00:56:42.86
some of the same
issues that you had,
00:56:42.90\00:56:44.90
either Atheism or
Agnosticism, what would you say,
00:56:44.93\00:56:48.77
look into that
camera and tell a young man
00:56:48.80\00:56:51.67
in about 30
seconds, what he should do.
00:56:51.74\00:56:56.58
I would say to the
Atheist, I would say,
00:56:56.61\00:57:01.42
"Give it a shot because to
an Atheist, you have nothing,
00:57:01.45\00:57:06.55
to you eternal
life is a possibility,
00:57:06.59\00:57:10.46
Christ is a
possibility, or impossibility
00:57:10.49\00:57:14.36
on both sides,
you have nothing,"
00:57:14.40\00:57:16.26
to the Agnostic,
00:57:16.30\00:57:17.63
for the one that's in between,
00:57:17.67\00:57:19.07
I would say, "Take a step,
00:57:19.13\00:57:20.67
because you never know
what can actually happen,
00:57:20.70\00:57:23.51
the Bible is explicitly clear
and through Biblical history,
00:57:23.57\00:57:28.38
and archeology, and prophecy,
00:57:28.41\00:57:30.35
that's how I've experienced
00:57:30.38\00:57:32.21
and that's how I
know that God does exist"
00:57:32.25\00:57:34.12
and I'll say to the Christian,
00:57:34.15\00:57:36.22
"Give your life
to God fully again. "
00:57:36.28\00:57:39.32
Thank you so
much, that was wonderful
00:57:39.35\00:57:42.42
and we're so blessed
that God has delivered you
00:57:42.49\00:57:46.19
from Atheism, thank you Jason.
00:57:46.23\00:57:49.76
You're welcome.
00:57:49.83\00:57:51.27
Yeah, yeah, and
thank you for joining us
00:57:51.30\00:57:54.00
join us next time
because you know what?
00:57:54.04\00:57:56.60
We really want you to know,
00:57:56.64\00:57:59.14
it just wouldn't be
the same, without you.
00:57:59.17\00:58:02.24