Are you depressed... a
victim of sexual abuse...
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or do you have an addiction?
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Well stay tuned
because help is on the way...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching...
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Urban Report...
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Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
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My guest today is
Biblical Counselor,
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Nicole Parker...
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Welcome to
Urban Report Nicole...
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Thank you... it's
great to be here...
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Oh! it's great
to have you here...
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I found out about
you from Mike Carducci
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who's with
'Coming Out' Ministries...
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he said, "You have to have
Nicole Parker on your Program"
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Mike is awesome...
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He is... he is... I love
them, they're such great guys...
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so... and Danielle, you know,
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they've added
Danielle to the team...
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it's just a wonderful team...
and so, when I heard about you
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I thought, "Okay,
let me give you a call...
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to see if you're available"
and the Lord sent you today...
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and we're really
thankful... Praise the Lord...
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So, let's talk a little bit
about Biblical Counseling...
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what's the difference between
that and Christian Counseling?
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Well you know...
a lot of what's...
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you could say that
there are 3 different kinds
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of counseling...
there's Secular Counseling...
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which says "You've got to
find the answers outside of God"
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there's Christian Counseling
which is a spectrum of things
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that largely says,
"You're going to have to find
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the answers...
somewhere outside of God... "
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and Biblical
Counseling which says,
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"All the answers are
within the gospel... "
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Hmmm... So, most
Christian Counseling
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follows a similar
kind of approach...
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that Secular Counseling does...
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one of my
friends recently told me
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he was looking for a Counselor
and so he interviewed someone
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and said, "So, are you
a Biblical Counsellor?"
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and the man smiled and said,
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"Well, I'm not
going to proof-text you...
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I can counsel anybody
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from any sort of
religious background...
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using the techniques that I use"
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well, as a Biblical
Counselor, I have to disagree...
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it's not that I
can't counsel anyone
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from any kind of background...
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but I'm going to use
the principles of the gospel
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whether or not they
yet understand Jesus Christ
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as a personal savior or not...
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the principles of the
gospel are what cut to the heart
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of what's going
on in our world...
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Right, so the
Bible Counselor then...
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always points the
client back to the Bible...
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and the principles there, and
whereas the Christian Counselor
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kind of... might
use Biblical principles
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but might also use
some other principles from
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other Secular
Counseling world...
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Right, and again, the Christian
Counseling is a spectrum
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there are many people who call
themselves Christian Counselors,
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but who are taking a
more Biblical approach
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they're saying, "This is where
you're going to find healing
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ultimately in God's Word...
" but what's typically taught
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to a person in a
Counseling Curriculum
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is more of a... "You
have to let them find
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the answers within themselves,
you can't tell them the truth
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you just have to listen well...
and ultimately it's based on
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humanistic pre-supposition...
that the Counselee
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has the answers
deep within themselves,
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where... the Bible tells us
that our hearts are deceitful
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and desperately wicked
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how are we supposed to find
the answers within ourselves?
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So, if I counsel an
adulterer... and I say,
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"Well, what do you feel
is the right answer for you
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in this situation?" He may say,
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"I feel like
staying with my girlfriend
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I don't want to
be with my wife... "
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Well, what can I say?
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And I've been through a
Christian Counseling Class
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where... the teacher
said, "Well, what should you do
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if somebody comes to
you considering abortion?"
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And I said, "Well, I
should tell them about the value
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of this child's
life in God's sight"
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and the teacher
stopped me and said,
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"No, you can never do that...
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you have to let them find
the answers for themselves... "
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and then later on
in the class she said,
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"Well, what do you do
if someone comes to you
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struggling with
homosexuality?" and I said,
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"Well, you have to show them
what the Word of God says...
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and show them compassionately
God is not calling you
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to a life of
desolation and misery...
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He's going to fulfill you...
whether or not He fulfills you
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in a marriage relationship
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with a person of the
opposite sex or not...
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He can give you a deep and
rich and living relationship
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with Him" that's the same thing
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I'm going to
tell to the adulterer
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but again... the Christian
Counseling teacher said,
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"No, you can't tell a
person what's right or wrong
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you must never tell them
what you think is right or wrong
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you have to let them find the
answers within themselves... "
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that's often what happens in a
Christian Counseling atmosphere
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You know Nicole,
that's so similar to the whole
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New Age idea...
that God is within you
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and that you go
inside and all the mysticism,
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Eastern mysticism and all
that it's all about going inside
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and tapping into
that energy within...
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and this is Secular
Psychology as well...
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Yes... You're
tapping into that energy
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within that
self... it's about self...
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and what Biblical Counseling...
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I'm hearing you say is
that it's outwardly directed
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it's not inwardly directed
but it's outwardly directed.
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As a Biblical Counselor if
somebody comes to me saying,
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"I'm struggling with
some marriage problems...
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my husband and I
can't communicate well...
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he always wants
this... I always want that...
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I'm not going to sit
there with him and say,
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"All right, let's make a plan
for how you guys can communicate
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better... I'm going to make
a list of 'her requirements'
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'his requirements'
now if you each agree
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that you're going to do
what the other person requires,
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she's going to stop
spending money all the time...
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he's going to start coming
home from work at 6 p. m. "
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we're not going to get to
the heart of things at all...
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I can help people to communicate
certainly it's useful learning
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"Use 'I' messages...
and take turns talking,
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use reflective listening"
those things aren't evil...
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but what I can do...
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without the
gospel... the best I can do...
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is help two sinners be
able to live more peacefully
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with one another without
confronting the heart issues...
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And that is key...
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"Confronting the heart issues"
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and looking at the root cause...
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That's right...
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going to the Word to
find out the root cause
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and then... strategies...
because the Word will give you
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"A soft answer
turneth away wrath... "
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I mean, the Word will give you
strategies on how to deal with
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different situations...
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let's talk about
different situations
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that people find themselves
in, such as depression...
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if a client comes to you
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and says, "I am
just so depressed
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all the time... I'm so sad... "
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what would you
tell that person to do?
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You know, a Biblical
Counselor is not a proof-texter
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who says, "Here's a promise,
go claim it until you feel good"
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that's not the way the
Bible is designed to work...
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it's designed to
go to the heart...
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I know, any time anyone
comes to me... with any issue
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that they're struggling with,
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they need a bigger and better
picture of the character of God
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so, I'm going to
listen compassionately
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and I'm going to
help them understand...
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how the Word of God...
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how the character of God
applies to their lives...
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now that sounds really
theoretical... so practically
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if somebody comes to me
struggling with depression...
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I probably am
first going to say,
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"Have you gone
to a Medical Doctor?
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Have you gotten your
B12, your Vitamin D...
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your hormones, those
kinds of things checked,
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are you sleeping well at
night, are you getting exercise,
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how are you eating?"
these are important things...
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Yes... and they
may have a huge effect
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on a person's depression...
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but I'm also going to look at,
"What's going on in your heart?"
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in other words,
I'm going to be asking,
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"When you're down...
what are the things that ring
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through your
mind... over and over?"
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because I know
how the devil works...
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he tells us lies about
the character of God...
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he tells us, "God is not love,
and therefore we are not loved"
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and a depressed person...
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there's no sin in
being depressed...
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depression is a temptation...
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Jesus was tempted in all points
like as we are yet without sin
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He was depressed in
the Garden of Gethsemane...
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He struggled...
but He overcame because
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He did not choose to
believe His feelings...
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he chose the
Word of God instead...
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a depressed person needs to know
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how to believe the Word of God
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instead of their feelings...
depression is a temptation
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it's a temptation to
think unbiblically about God...
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about ourselves...
about the meaning of life...
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Hmmm... so, I'm
glad to hear you say that
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you would ask the person
have they seen a Medical Doctor
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because sometimes it's
a bio-chemical issue...
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Right... that
can't be remedied by
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I won't say, "can't be remedied"
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there needs to be some kind
of bio-chemical modification...
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Right... so I'm
glad to hear you say that
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but also, people need to know
that there are... in addition to
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the bio-medical issues...
00:09:04.07\00:09:05.51
everything has a
spiritual component...
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Yes... every
situation has a spiritual
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component... so I
think it's really good
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that you would have
them look back at the Word
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and see who God really is...
and experience His love for them
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So, depression is an
invitation to think more deeply
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about what God
means in my life...
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Hmmm... it's an invitation
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to see how the Bible
applies to my life...
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when a person's depressed...
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they're
experiencing stronger temptation
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to think lies about themselves
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and the devil takes
advantage of that...
00:09:44.85\00:09:46.25
he tells them, "You
never do anything right...
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you're not good enough, no
one's ever going to love you"
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Hmmm... hmmm...
"you're not worth enough... "
00:09:52.12\00:09:54.26
whatever it is... the
devil is going to strike
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at the heart of the two
cravings of every human heart
00:09:56.36\00:09:59.76
for love and for worth...
we all long to be deeply loved
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and we all long
for a sense of worth...
00:10:03.16\00:10:06.27
these two things we
have to get from God...
00:10:06.30\00:10:09.30
a sense that He is our
creator, that's why He loves us,
00:10:09.34\00:10:13.34
He created us in His
image, and He's our redeemer,
00:10:13.41\00:10:16.91
He redeemed us with His blood,
00:10:16.95\00:10:18.81
this is the measure
of how much I'm loved...
00:10:18.85\00:10:20.98
and this is the measure
of how much I'm worth...
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if I cannot believe those
things based on the Word of God,
00:10:22.95\00:10:26.76
I'm going to look to
someone or something else
00:10:26.79\00:10:29.69
for my sense of love and
worth and I will be powerless
00:10:29.72\00:10:33.26
to break away from my addiction
to that thing or that person
00:10:33.29\00:10:36.23
because it's not really about
that thing or that person...
00:10:36.30\00:10:39.50
it's about the fact that I
was created as a worshipper
00:10:39.57\00:10:42.57
I'm going to worship
whatever is my source of love
00:10:42.60\00:10:45.57
and worth... I can't help it...
00:10:45.61\00:10:47.28
That's right...
we're wired that way...
00:10:47.31\00:10:50.01
Yes... we are
wired to worship...
00:10:50.05\00:10:52.18
I like that title...
don't take my title...
00:10:52.21\00:10:54.98
And God has
designed us to worship...
00:10:55.02\00:10:57.89
that's why we can never have
deeply rich and meaningful lives
00:10:57.92\00:11:01.49
without Him... as the
source of our purpose,
00:11:01.52\00:11:04.89
our identity... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:04.93\00:11:06.66
we find our
purpose in our identity
00:11:06.70\00:11:08.26
and He makes us
feel loved and valued...
00:11:08.30\00:11:11.57
So, let's say you have
someone that comes to you
00:11:11.60\00:11:15.74
that's in an
abusive relationship,
00:11:15.77\00:11:18.51
what would you say to...
00:11:18.54\00:11:22.11
let's talk about
domestic violence
00:11:22.14\00:11:24.65
a woman comes to you...
her husband is coming home
00:11:24.68\00:11:28.45
and he's just beating
her on a regular basis
00:11:28.48\00:11:31.79
how would you
counsel her Biblically?
00:11:31.82\00:11:34.59
Well, I would
evaluate first of all...
00:11:34.62\00:11:37.19
how willing is she to
get out of this situation...
00:11:37.23\00:11:39.43
because her body is
the temple of God...
00:11:39.46\00:11:41.76
and I fear for her life...
but for me to forcibly remove
00:11:41.80\00:11:45.77
her from that situation,
may not do any good...
00:11:45.80\00:11:48.77
she'll be back in a week...
00:11:48.80\00:11:50.14
or she'll find
somebody else... even worse...
00:11:50.17\00:11:52.11
so, my goal is going to be...
00:11:52.14\00:11:54.68
not just to change
her circumstances...
00:11:54.71\00:11:57.25
but to help the
gospel change her heart...
00:11:57.28\00:12:00.28
and many people...
they get in that situation
00:12:00.32\00:12:03.25
because they long for someone
00:12:03.28\00:12:04.62
to make them feel like
they're worth something...
00:12:04.65\00:12:06.45
I'm not going to pull them
out of that situation forcibly
00:12:06.49\00:12:09.69
unless they can shift their
00:12:09.72\00:12:11.33
sense of... what
makes them valuable...
00:12:11.36\00:12:13.33
what makes them
loved... to God instead...
00:12:13.36\00:12:15.26
so my first goal is going to be
00:12:15.30\00:12:17.13
to help her to allow the gospel
to sink deeply into her heart
00:12:17.20\00:12:23.04
that she realizes...
00:12:23.07\00:12:24.41
"I am so loved by
God... I'm worth so much... "
00:12:24.44\00:12:27.78
that journey out of
an abuse situation...
00:12:27.81\00:12:30.68
is going to be hard...
00:12:30.71\00:12:32.05
she must rely on the
love of God for her...
00:12:32.08\00:12:35.58
or she's going to go right back.
00:12:35.62\00:12:37.19
Hmmm... you have a
history... a testimony...
00:12:37.22\00:12:42.29
would you share some of that
with us... with our Viewers...
00:12:42.32\00:12:46.59
Sure... you know... I
grew up in a Christian home
00:12:46.63\00:12:49.60
and in many ways
everything was ideal...
00:12:49.63\00:12:51.93
my parents weren't aware
that there was a relative
00:12:51.97\00:12:55.00
that was sexually abusing me,
00:12:55.04\00:12:56.44
and nobody knew
what I was going through
00:12:56.47\00:13:00.68
no one knew about the
terrible depression and anxiety
00:13:00.71\00:13:04.51
that I started going
through as a teenager...
00:13:04.55\00:13:07.32
How old were you? I
started... it especially got
00:13:07.35\00:13:10.09
very bad around the
time I turned 14 or 15...
00:13:10.12\00:13:13.05
and I just wanted
to die sometimes...
00:13:13.09\00:13:15.19
I kept on going to
School... getting good grades
00:13:15.22\00:13:19.13
laughing with my friends,
00:13:19.16\00:13:20.50
nobody knew what I was
going through... down inside...
00:13:20.53\00:13:22.90
but the anxiety became so severe
that I would have panic attacks
00:13:22.93\00:13:27.87
if a man walked behind me...
00:13:27.90\00:13:29.44
if I went into a grocery store
00:13:29.47\00:13:30.94
aisle where there
was a man standing,
00:13:30.97\00:13:32.61
a panic attack... I
wouldn't be able to breathe
00:13:32.64\00:13:35.24
I would just, you know,
want to curl up in a ball...
00:13:35.28\00:13:38.38
it was terrible...
00:13:38.41\00:13:39.75
so, I tried to
manipulate my circumstances
00:13:39.78\00:13:43.75
to stay away from places where
I would have a panic attack
00:13:43.82\00:13:46.55
and I kept telling myself lies
00:13:46.59\00:13:48.86
"You're just making it all up,
00:13:48.89\00:13:51.13
you're just making a
big deal about nothing... "
00:13:51.16\00:13:54.03
but it was only when I
was willing to finally find
00:13:54.10\00:13:56.97
my source of
love and worth in God,
00:13:57.00\00:14:00.44
that He gave me the courage
to tackle what I'd been through
00:14:00.47\00:14:03.61
and to be able to find
true Biblical healing...
00:14:03.64\00:14:06.68
I don't deal with
those things anymore...
00:14:06.71\00:14:08.61
the depression,
the anxiety, you know,
00:14:08.64\00:14:10.51
temptations will come to me...
00:14:10.55\00:14:11.88
"How are you going
to take care of that...
00:14:11.91\00:14:13.92
how are you
going to afford that?"
00:14:13.95\00:14:15.28
but I can meet them with
the promises of God's Word
00:14:15.32\00:14:18.09
Amen... and when
temptation comes to me
00:14:18.15\00:14:20.86
to depression, you know,
00:14:20.92\00:14:22.26
"Nobody is ever
going to love you anyway...
00:14:22.29\00:14:24.19
you're never going
to do it well enough...
00:14:24.23\00:14:26.26
your house is never
going to be clean enough... "
00:14:26.29\00:14:28.53
I recognize these
temptations for what they are...
00:14:28.56\00:14:30.73
they are the
devil's lies about me,
00:14:30.80\00:14:32.17
"You're not going
to be worth enough"
00:14:32.20\00:14:34.07
Hmmm... "unless you
have a perfect house
00:14:34.10\00:14:36.17
perfect
children... perfect face... "
00:14:36.20\00:14:38.14
So, when you were going through
00:14:38.17\00:14:41.61
this whole
period of sexual abuse,
00:14:41.64\00:14:44.98
were you afraid to
tell your parents...
00:14:45.01\00:14:48.05
did you think they
wouldn't believe you...
00:14:48.08\00:14:51.02
what do you think stopped
you from telling your parents?
00:14:51.05\00:14:54.59
You know, he died when I was
ten right after I accused him...
00:14:54.62\00:14:58.33
The abuser? The abuser did...
00:14:58.36\00:14:59.69
and I was just too
young to process...
00:14:59.73\00:15:03.67
my parents were
raising me out in the country
00:15:03.70\00:15:07.14
in a wonderful place in
the woods and the fields,
00:15:07.17\00:15:10.57
they thought that nothing
would possibly happen to me
00:15:10.61\00:15:13.74
because they knew I was
only with safe people...
00:15:13.78\00:15:16.85
they never suspected that this
relative would ever possibly
00:15:16.88\00:15:19.75
abuse me... it
never entered their heads,
00:15:19.78\00:15:21.92
so they had never warned
me, and never talked with me,
00:15:21.95\00:15:24.42
this is why, I talk
with my children regularly
00:15:24.45\00:15:26.42
about "what would you do... "
00:15:26.45\00:15:27.79
"What if this person were
to touch you in this way...
00:15:27.82\00:15:31.03
who would you tell...
00:15:31.06\00:15:32.96
what if mommy and
daddy weren't there... "
00:15:32.99\00:15:34.40
because I want them to know
00:15:34.46\00:15:35.90
that they can always
say, "No" to an adult...
00:15:35.93\00:15:38.87
because I never knew that I
could say "no" to an adult...
00:15:38.90\00:15:41.24
I knew you were bad if
you disobeyed a grown-up...
00:15:41.27\00:15:45.04
and so I had two competing
moral systems telling me,
00:15:45.07\00:15:48.44
"You're bad if you
tell, you're bad if you don't"
00:15:48.48\00:15:51.41
Hmmm... this is a very
important point Nicole,
00:15:51.45\00:15:54.35
because children...
you know that there must be
00:15:54.38\00:15:58.39
so much confusion going on...
"I can't be disrespectful to
00:15:58.42\00:16:03.26
this adult... but yet
something's going on here
00:16:03.29\00:16:06.43
that isn't right... " Right...
00:16:06.49\00:16:08.46
the two competing
issues that is a great point...
00:16:08.50\00:16:12.03
that must be... where
00:16:12.07\00:16:13.77
so many children are...
00:16:13.80\00:16:15.47
that are going
through abuse, "Do I tell?"
00:16:15.50\00:16:17.81
the other thing is...
00:16:17.84\00:16:19.17
it's so important to
talk to your children
00:16:19.21\00:16:21.78
to make sure that you
create a safe environment
00:16:21.81\00:16:25.61
in which they can
come to you and say,
00:16:25.65\00:16:27.95
"Mom, somebody is touching
me in the wrong place... "
00:16:27.98\00:16:32.85
or they can tell you that
00:16:32.89\00:16:34.82
because you have
created an environment
00:16:34.86\00:16:37.13
that makes them
comfortable to do that...
00:16:37.16\00:16:39.33
and you will
believe them if they say,
00:16:39.39\00:16:41.86
"Mom, something is going
on" Exactly... exactly...
00:16:41.90\00:16:44.83
I think that is such a
healthy thing because...
00:16:44.87\00:16:47.77
and I did that with
my boys coming up...
00:16:47.80\00:16:49.87
"Is anybody touching
you" because I want to know
00:16:49.90\00:16:53.94
and I wanted them to
feel comfortable telling me
00:16:53.98\00:16:57.98
that something was or wasn't...
thankfully, it didn't...
00:16:58.01\00:17:01.75
but you still want to
make sure that your children
00:17:01.78\00:17:04.29
feel comfortable
enough to do that...
00:17:04.32\00:17:06.12
Sexual abuse doesn't have
to destroy a person's life,
00:17:06.15\00:17:08.66
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:08.69\00:17:10.03
any kind of abuse
doesn't have to...
00:17:10.06\00:17:12.06
the reason abuse is so damaging
00:17:12.13\00:17:14.30
is because it strikes
at the root of our belief
00:17:14.30\00:17:17.83
in the character of God...
00:17:17.87\00:17:19.20
Hmmm... how so?
00:17:19.23\00:17:20.57
when a child is abused by say...
00:17:20.60\00:17:22.74
a person that is in a
position position of trust
00:17:22.77\00:17:25.01
maybe a significant caregiver,
a parent or something like that,
00:17:25.04\00:17:28.11
that person was responsible
for showing this child
00:17:28.14\00:17:31.38
what God is like...
all of us form our picture
00:17:31.41\00:17:34.65
of who God is...
based on our significant
00:17:34.68\00:17:36.85
caregivers... that's why
God makes us live in families
00:17:36.89\00:17:39.85
we don't just hatch out of
eggs somewhere in the forest,
00:17:39.89\00:17:42.82
you know... He wants us to
live in a relationship network
00:17:42.86\00:17:45.99
because relationships with
others are how we learn about
00:17:46.03\00:17:48.73
our relationship with Him
from our earliest years...
00:17:48.76\00:17:51.77
the problem is... there
has never been a perfect parent
00:17:51.80\00:17:54.77
so every child is
born into a situation...
00:17:54.80\00:17:58.14
where their
significant caregivers
00:17:58.17\00:18:00.58
in some way are going to
warp their picture of who God is
00:18:00.61\00:18:03.45
sometimes that's by abuse,
sometimes it's by neglect,
00:18:03.48\00:18:06.28
sometimes their parents die...
00:18:06.31\00:18:07.75
you can't stop the fact that
we live in a sinful, ugly world
00:18:07.78\00:18:11.59
bad things happen...
00:18:11.62\00:18:12.95
but that's kind
of good news in a way
00:18:12.99\00:18:15.02
because that means
God surely must have
00:18:15.06\00:18:17.23
a secondary system in place...
00:18:17.26\00:18:19.23
where He can restore
our picture of who He is...
00:18:19.26\00:18:21.46
Hmmm... and that's what we have
00:18:21.50\00:18:23.13
in the Word of God...
that's why I believe in
00:18:23.16\00:18:24.97
Biblical
Counseling so strongly because
00:18:25.00\00:18:26.74
Biblical Counseling is speaking
the gospel into people's lives
00:18:26.77\00:18:30.71
in areas that they need to
understand His character better
00:18:30.74\00:18:34.64
and every Christian
should be a Biblical Counselor
00:18:34.68\00:18:37.41
because Biblical Counseling
is simply helping people
00:18:37.45\00:18:40.12
to apply the gospel to life...
00:18:40.15\00:18:41.48
So, do you have,
with your ministry
00:18:41.52\00:18:45.12
do you have a system in
place to train others...
00:18:45.15\00:18:50.09
let's talk about your ministry
00:18:50.13\00:18:52.53
and what it is and what
you're doing with your husband.
00:18:52.56\00:18:55.13
Well, mostly, I'm a
homeschooling mom...
00:18:55.16\00:18:58.43
raising my
children... and then...
00:18:58.47\00:19:01.74
people have started asking us
to speak in different places...
00:19:01.77\00:19:04.81
and do what we can...
00:19:04.84\00:19:06.47
to share the
gospel with everyone...
00:19:06.51\00:19:08.31
so, I do personal
counseling when I can...
00:19:08.34\00:19:11.65
but often, I'm just swamped
with e- mails from people
00:19:11.68\00:19:14.35
all over the world... asking,
00:19:14.38\00:19:15.72
"How does the gospel
apply to this situation,
00:19:15.75\00:19:17.59
in this situation,
here's how I'm hurting... "
00:19:17.62\00:19:19.55
I just do the best I can...
00:19:19.59\00:19:21.72
I have to make sure that my
children are taken care of...
00:19:21.76\00:19:24.73
my home is running as
smoothly as possible...
00:19:24.76\00:19:27.50
and sometimes I'm
counseling with people
00:19:27.50\00:19:30.10
while I'm folding
laundry and doing ironing...
00:19:30.13\00:19:32.70
chopping vegetables
You're multi-tasking...
00:19:32.73\00:19:35.20
It's the best I can do...
I have to preach the gospel
00:19:35.27\00:19:37.74
anywhere because God
has transformed my life...
00:19:37.77\00:19:40.64
I just can't tell you how
wonderful it is... to be free...
00:19:40.68\00:19:43.85
from all of the
pain and the darkness
00:19:43.88\00:19:46.75
that I used to go through,
my heart goes out to any person
00:19:46.78\00:19:49.32
who is going through that...
and I just want to go around...
00:19:49.35\00:19:51.55
unlocking people's
shackles everywhere I go...
00:19:51.59\00:19:54.62
I don't enjoy speaking in public
00:19:54.66\00:19:57.36
I don't enjoy getting up in
front and having people say,
00:19:57.43\00:20:01.00
"I have a question for
you... " Oh dear, another one...
00:20:01.03\00:20:04.63
"Lord help me, I
don't know what to say... "
00:20:04.67\00:20:07.24
but He always gives the answers
00:20:07.27\00:20:08.60
because the answers
are always in His Word...
00:20:08.64\00:20:11.34
And that's the key...
you know, that's the key...
00:20:11.37\00:20:14.04
Practical Christianity...
how do we live out the gospel
00:20:14.08\00:20:19.51
that to me is what...
this Network, Dare to Dream,
00:20:19.55\00:20:22.55
is about...
Practical Christianity
00:20:22.62\00:20:24.72
3ABN... Practical
Christianity because...
00:20:24.75\00:20:27.69
not only do we want
to know the principles...
00:20:27.72\00:20:30.23
we want to know how to
apply the principles...
00:20:30.26\00:20:32.49
and so, that's what you're
saying that people come to you
00:20:32.53\00:20:36.30
to... not just find
out what the principles are
00:20:36.33\00:20:39.20
but now, how do I
apply them in my life...
00:20:39.23\00:20:41.64
Right... I can
tell any person...
00:20:41.67\00:20:43.74
ahead of time...
when they're coming in
00:20:43.77\00:20:45.37
I know if they're struggling
with something serious
00:20:45.41\00:20:48.74
and they are wanting to get some
Biblical Counseling on it...
00:20:48.78\00:20:51.18
chances are... what
they're really struggling with
00:20:51.21\00:20:54.08
is some misperception
of the character of God...
00:20:54.12\00:20:56.99
he doesn't feel
like he's loved...
00:20:57.02\00:20:58.82
and particularly to a
person who has been abused...
00:20:58.85\00:21:01.42
God doesn't feel
loving... it feels like...
00:21:01.46\00:21:04.46
if He were really loving...
00:21:04.49\00:21:05.83
He would have stopped
this from happening to me...
00:21:05.86\00:21:08.06
a person who is
addicted, likewise,
00:21:08.10\00:21:10.00
has a very difficult time
seeing God as a God of love
00:21:10.03\00:21:13.50
because if He were love...
why would He want to have
00:21:13.54\00:21:16.97
anything to do
with somebody like me?
00:21:17.01\00:21:19.24
you know... I'm
disgusting... I'm despicable...
00:21:19.27\00:21:22.54
I do these things that
I know I shouldn't do...
00:21:22.58\00:21:25.88
so, all of us... have
these barriers in our minds
00:21:25.91\00:21:29.18
that make it
harder for us to believe
00:21:29.22\00:21:30.85
that God is really who
He says He is in His Word...
00:21:30.89\00:21:32.85
instead of who
we feel like He is,
00:21:32.89\00:21:35.02
and who our circumstances
seem to tell us... He is...
00:21:35.06\00:21:38.06
And if you haven't
had a good father...
00:21:38.13\00:21:40.73
or if you've had a
father who has abused you
00:21:40.76\00:21:44.40
or if you have a father who
is angry and mean and unloving
00:21:44.43\00:21:49.87
you're going to subconsciously
associate that kind of attitude
00:21:49.90\00:21:55.28
with God... That's right...
00:21:55.34\00:21:56.71
and so... what
you're saying about
00:21:56.75\00:21:59.61
God's true character...
and people understanding
00:21:59.65\00:22:04.05
who God really is...
the Bible will show you
00:22:04.09\00:22:07.92
and you also... God
will reveal Himself to you.
00:22:07.96\00:22:11.69
Yes, I often tell people...
I liken our search for God...
00:22:11.73\00:22:16.73
to a sponge...
that's being immersed
00:22:16.77\00:22:19.67
in a sink full of
warm, soapy water...
00:22:19.70\00:22:22.47
Hmmm... and yet,
it comes up dry...
00:22:22.50\00:22:25.24
Hmmm... over and over...
00:22:25.27\00:22:27.14
I talk with people...
00:22:27.21\00:22:29.01
I can't tell you how
many people... I talk with
00:22:29.04\00:22:30.68
who come to me and say,
"I'm trying to spend time
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.25
with God... I'm trying to
pray and study the Bible...
00:22:32.28\00:22:35.22
but God feels so far away...
" and in that situation...
00:22:35.25\00:22:38.22
I have to say, you know,
00:22:38.29\00:22:39.62
"You're like a sponge...
being sunk into the sink full
00:22:39.65\00:22:41.99
of warm soapy water... "
00:22:42.02\00:22:43.36
it has to be warm and soapy...
somehow that helps, right?
00:22:43.39\00:22:45.43
It sounds good though...
00:22:45.46\00:22:46.86
"and the sponge
comes up dry every time...
00:22:46.93\00:22:49.10
because it's
inside as a Ziploc bag"
00:22:49.13\00:22:50.60
Hmmm...
00:22:50.63\00:22:52.47
that's Ziploc bag
is our misperception
00:22:52.50\00:22:55.17
of the character of God...
00:22:55.20\00:22:56.77
if I feel that every
time I fall into my sin...
00:22:56.81\00:23:00.18
God is disgusted with me...
00:23:00.24\00:23:02.34
He doesn't see me as
lovable or worthwhile anymore...
00:23:02.41\00:23:05.31
if I feel that about God...
00:23:05.35\00:23:06.72
I cannot come to
Him with my addiction...
00:23:06.78\00:23:09.18
Hmmm... if I feel fundamentally
00:23:09.22\00:23:12.12
permanently disfigured by
the fact that someone has sinned
00:23:12.15\00:23:15.12
against me... sexual abuse
or any other kinds of abuse
00:23:15.16\00:23:18.09
it could be that "I
never fit in at school... "
00:23:18.13\00:23:20.30
"no one ever told me
that I was beautiful... "
00:23:20.33\00:23:22.43
whatever it is that I have...
taken as the devil's lie...
00:23:22.46\00:23:25.67
about my
lovability and my worth...
00:23:25.70\00:23:28.97
and accept it...
00:23:29.00\00:23:30.37
if I've drunk that
poison in some way...
00:23:30.41\00:23:33.11
then I have a misconception
about the character of God...
00:23:33.14\00:23:36.14
"maybe God would love me if" or
"maybe people would love me if"
00:23:36.18\00:23:40.08
or "maybe I can be
happier or fulfilled if... "
00:23:40.12\00:23:43.75
but God is not about
helping us to somehow function
00:23:43.79\00:23:47.36
a little bit
better in this world...
00:23:47.39\00:23:48.72
He wants to pierce that
Ziploc bag around our hearts
00:23:48.76\00:23:52.56
and satisfy us...
00:23:52.59\00:23:53.93
with a deep sense of
being loved and worthwhile...
00:23:53.96\00:23:57.00
I love that metaphor of the
sponge in the warm, soapy water
00:23:57.03\00:24:02.07
I mean, really,
because you just... with God...
00:24:02.10\00:24:04.87
you just want to just...
absorb all of that goodness
00:24:04.94\00:24:08.88
and that richness and
the love that He has...
00:24:08.91\00:24:11.51
you know... it's just...
so, I love that metaphor...
00:24:11.55\00:24:14.42
It's a lifelong
process you know Yeah...
00:24:14.45\00:24:16.28
it's so easy for us
to get discouraged...
00:24:16.32\00:24:18.09
especially if we perceive that
God demands perfection of us
00:24:18.12\00:24:21.32
and anything less than
perfection... is failure...
00:24:21.36\00:24:24.03
Yes... so often,
I deal with people
00:24:24.06\00:24:26.80
who are struggling
with this and they say,
00:24:26.86\00:24:28.66
"I'm not acceptable to God...
" in one way or another...
00:24:28.70\00:24:31.43
when it gets to the
bottom of everything...
00:24:31.47\00:24:33.30
they feel... "God
would love me... if... "
00:24:33.37\00:24:35.17
"God would value me if... "
00:24:35.20\00:24:36.97
It goes back to works... Yes...
00:24:37.01\00:24:39.94
"if I do this...
God will love me...
00:24:39.97\00:24:42.31
but if I do
that... He won't... "
00:24:42.34\00:24:44.55
and what has to
be understood is...
00:24:44.58\00:24:46.85
"there is nothing
that can separate us
00:24:46.88\00:24:49.05
from the love of God... "
That's right, there's nothing...
00:24:49.08\00:24:51.12
nothing... nothing ever...
00:24:51.15\00:24:52.62
He doesn't stop loving
you because you make a mistake
00:24:52.65\00:24:55.46
he doesn't stop loving
you because you've fallen...
00:24:55.49\00:24:58.26
He loves us still... we don't...
00:24:58.29\00:25:00.93
we don't stop loving our
kids because they make a mistake
00:25:00.96\00:25:03.53
Right... and so, how much more,
00:25:03.57\00:25:05.50
the Divine Parent...
00:25:05.53\00:25:06.87
But if a child has
grown up with parents
00:25:06.90\00:25:09.84
who would only love them
if... it's much harder for them
00:25:09.87\00:25:13.17
to see God as a
God of love... Right...
00:25:13.21\00:25:14.64
that's why when
somebody comes to me saying,
00:25:14.71\00:25:16.14
"I'm struggling with severe
anxiety or depression... "
00:25:16.18\00:25:18.45
I'm going to
talk with them about
00:25:18.48\00:25:20.22
"how is that
manifesting in their life"
00:25:20.25\00:25:22.25
but I'm not going to leave it
00:25:22.28\00:25:23.62
at that...
because I need to know...
00:25:23.65\00:25:24.99
"how has your picture
of God... been warped...
00:25:25.02\00:25:27.52
has it been by your parents...
was it been by a teacher,
00:25:27.56\00:25:29.96
was it by a pastor, was
it by your circumstances"
00:25:29.99\00:25:33.43
whatever it is... in some way
our picture of God is warped...
00:25:33.46\00:25:37.30
and therefore, we
start feeling like,
00:25:37.33\00:25:39.80
"I'm not lovable, I'm
not worthwhile unless... "
00:25:39.83\00:25:42.57
and then the devil will dangle
that carrot in front of us
00:25:42.60\00:25:45.14
forever on a stick... "if
you can just get rich enough
00:25:45.17\00:25:47.71
if you can get beautiful enough,
00:25:47.74\00:25:49.61
if you can just
get popular enough,
00:25:49.68\00:25:51.71
then maybe
you'll achieve 'worth'
00:25:51.75\00:25:53.42
then maybe you'll be lovable"
00:25:53.45\00:25:54.88
and it's an endless
cycle into destruction...
00:25:54.92\00:25:59.05
we must find God... in
the midst of everything...
00:25:59.09\00:26:02.72
Yes... these
struggles that we have
00:26:02.76\00:26:05.13
they are God's
invitations to our hearts...
00:26:05.16\00:26:07.03
Hmmm... When someone says,
00:26:07.03\00:26:08.36
"This is what I'm
struggling with...
00:26:08.40\00:26:09.73
I crave this
relationship with this person...
00:26:09.76\00:26:11.83
I cannot get away from her,
00:26:11.87\00:26:13.47
I don't know how
to accept breakup... "
00:26:13.50\00:26:15.17
I'm not going to say,
00:26:15.20\00:26:16.74
"Well, here are 10 happy
steps that will help you... "
00:26:16.77\00:26:19.47
this is not the problem...
the problem is the heart...
00:26:19.51\00:26:22.18
this person is looking
to that person to satisfy
00:26:22.24\00:26:25.95
what only God can satisfy...
and times have broken us
00:26:26.01\00:26:29.68
are the ideal time
for us to allow God
00:26:29.72\00:26:33.25
to pierce that Ziploc bag
and satisfy us with Himself
00:26:33.29\00:26:36.73
because... He is the
one who longs to show us
00:26:36.76\00:26:40.16
"You are so deeply loved... "
and in the midst of these times
00:26:40.20\00:26:44.40
it's when someone says,
00:26:44.43\00:26:45.77
"This is what
I'm struggling with"
00:26:45.80\00:26:47.14
I can say, "What lie are
you hearing from the devil?"
00:26:47.17\00:26:50.47
Hmmm... and then... I can say,
00:26:50.51\00:26:52.31
"Now, let's find
out in God's Word
00:26:52.34\00:26:54.08
what He says about
you in this area... "
00:26:54.11\00:26:56.28
That's great...
what is your website...
00:26:56.31\00:26:58.41
we'll put your website
up... It's www. heartthirst. com
00:26:58.48\00:27:01.78
like a thirsty
heart... www. heartthirst. com
00:27:01.82\00:27:06.12
yes... www. heartthirst. com
00:27:06.15\00:27:07.66
we have lots of resources there,
00:27:07.69\00:27:09.09
a lot of seminars that
my husband and I have done
00:27:09.12\00:27:10.86
going over addiction, abuse,
00:27:10.89\00:27:13.23
how to build a deep, connecting
relationship with God...
00:27:13.26\00:27:16.06
how to have healthy
relationships with one another.
00:27:16.13\00:27:18.70
Well, we thank you so
much for being with us...
00:27:18.73\00:27:21.20
Thank you...
00:27:21.24\00:27:22.74
Thank you so much for these tips
00:27:22.80\00:27:24.31
and I hope Audience...
that you have been blessed
00:27:24.37\00:27:27.61
by what Nicole has been saying,
study the Word for yourself
00:27:27.64\00:27:31.28
you know, God's goodness...
is going to carry you through...
00:27:31.31\00:27:34.82
you just have to
hold on to Him...
00:27:34.85\00:27:36.75
and study His Word...
and watch your life change...
00:27:36.79\00:27:40.72
that's the key...
if we stay connected...
00:27:40.76\00:27:43.19
the Bible says,
"Abide in me... "
00:27:43.22\00:27:44.69
Jesus said in John
15... "Abide in me...
00:27:44.73\00:27:47.66
without me... you
can't do anything... "
00:27:47.76\00:27:50.90
but with Jesus... all
things are possible...
00:27:50.93\00:27:54.04
Well, that's the end of
our Program for today...
00:27:54.07\00:27:56.91
thank you so
much for tuning in...
00:27:56.94\00:27:58.41
join us next time...
because you know what...
00:27:58.44\00:28:00.98
it just wouldn't be
the same without you...
00:28:01.01\00:28:03.48