Are you depressed... a
victim of sexual abuse...
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or do you have an addiction?
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Well stay tuned
because help is on the way...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching...
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Urban Report...
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Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
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My guest today is
Biblical Counselor,
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Nicole Parker...
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Welcome to
Urban Report Nicole...
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Thank you... it's
great to be here...
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Oh! it's great
to have you here...
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I found out about
you from Mike Carducci
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who's with
'Coming Out' Ministries...
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he said, "You have to have
Nicole Parker on your Program"
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Mike is awesome...
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He is... he is... I love
them, they're such great guys...
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so... and Danielle, you know,
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they've added
Danielle to the team...
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it's just a wonderful team...
and so, when I heard about you
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I thought, "Okay,
let me give you a call...
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to see if you're available"
and the Lord sent you today...
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and we're really
thankful... Praise the Lord...
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So, let's talk a little bit
about Biblical Counseling...
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what's the difference between
that and Christian Counseling?
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Well you know...
a lot of what's...
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you could say that
there are 3 different kinds
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of counseling...
there's Secular Counseling...
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which says "You've got to
find the answers outside of God"
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there's Christian Counseling
which is a spectrum of things
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that largely says,
"You're going to have to find
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the answers...
somewhere outside of God... "
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and Biblical
Counseling which says,
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"All the answers are
within the gospel... "
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Hmmm... So, most
Christian Counseling
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follows a similar
kind of approach...
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that Secular Counseling does...
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one of my
friends recently told me
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he was looking for a Counselor
and so he interviewed someone
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and said, "So, are you
a Biblical Counsellor?"
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and the man smiled and said,
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"Well, I'm not
going to proof-text you...
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I can counsel anybody
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from any sort of
religious background...
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using the techniques that I use"
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well, as a Biblical
Counselor, I have to disagree...
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it's not that I
can't counsel anyone
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from any kind of background...
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but I'm going to use
the principles of the gospel
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whether or not they
yet understand Jesus Christ
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as a personal savior or not...
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the principles of the
gospel are what cut to the heart
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of what's going
on in our world...
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Right, so the
Bible Counselor then...
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always points the
client back to the Bible...
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and the principles there, and
whereas the Christian Counselor
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kind of... might
use Biblical principles
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but might also use
some other principles from
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other Secular
Counseling world...
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Right, and again, the Christian
Counseling is a spectrum
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there are many people who call
themselves Christian Counselors,
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but who are taking a
more Biblical approach
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they're saying, "This is where
you're going to find healing
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ultimately in God's Word...
" but what's typically taught
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to a person in a
Counseling Curriculum
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is more of a... "You
have to let them find
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the answers within themselves,
you can't tell them the truth
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you just have to listen well...
and ultimately it's based on
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humanistic pre-supposition...
that the Counselee
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has the answers
deep within themselves,
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where... the Bible tells us
that our hearts are deceitful
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and desperately wicked
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how are we supposed to find
the answers within ourselves?
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So, if I counsel an
adulterer... and I say,
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"Well, what do you feel
is the right answer for you
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in this situation?" He may say,
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"I feel like
staying with my girlfriend
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I don't want to
be with my wife... "
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Well, what can I say?
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And I've been through a
Christian Counseling Class
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where... the teacher
said, "Well, what should you do
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if somebody comes to
you considering abortion?"
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And I said, "Well, I
should tell them about the value
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of this child's
life in God's sight"
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and the teacher
stopped me and said,
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"No, you can never do that...
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you have to let them find
the answers for themselves... "
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and then later on
in the class she said,
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"Well, what do you do
if someone comes to you
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struggling with
homosexuality?" and I said,
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"Well, you have to show them
what the Word of God says...
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and show them compassionately
God is not calling you
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to a life of
desolation and misery...
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He's going to fulfill you...
whether or not He fulfills you
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in a marriage relationship
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with a person of the
opposite sex or not...
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He can give you a deep and
rich and living relationship
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with Him" that's the same thing
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I'm going to
tell to the adulterer
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but again... the Christian
Counseling teacher said,
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"No, you can't tell a
person what's right or wrong
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you must never tell them
what you think is right or wrong
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you have to let them find the
answers within themselves... "
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that's often what happens in a
Christian Counseling atmosphere
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You know Nicole,
that's so similar to the whole
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New Age idea...
that God is within you
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and that you go
inside and all the mysticism,
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Eastern mysticism and all
that it's all about going inside
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and tapping into
that energy within...
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and this is Secular
Psychology as well...
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Yes... You're
tapping into that energy
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within that
self... it's about self...
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and what Biblical Counseling...
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I'm hearing you say is
that it's outwardly directed
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it's not inwardly directed
but it's outwardly directed.
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As a Biblical Counselor if
somebody comes to me saying,
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"I'm struggling with
some marriage problems...
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my husband and I
can't communicate well...
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he always wants
this... I always want that...
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I'm not going to sit
there with him and say,
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"All right, let's make a plan
for how you guys can communicate
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better... I'm going to make
a list of 'her requirements'
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'his requirements'
now if you each agree
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that you're going to do
what the other person requires,
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she's going to stop
spending money all the time...
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he's going to start coming
home from work at 6 p. m. "
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we're not going to get to
the heart of things at all...
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I can help people to communicate
certainly it's useful learning
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"Use 'I' messages...
and take turns talking,
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use reflective listening"
those things aren't evil...
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but what I can do...
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without the
gospel... the best I can do...
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is help two sinners be
able to live more peacefully
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with one another without
confronting the heart issues...
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And that is key...
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"Confronting the heart issues"
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and looking at the root cause...
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That's right...
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going to the Word to
find out the root cause
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and then... strategies...
because the Word will give you
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"A soft answer
turneth away wrath... "
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I mean, the Word will give you
strategies on how to deal with
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different situations...
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let's talk about
different situations
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that people find themselves
in, such as depression...
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if a client comes to you
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and says, "I am
just so depressed
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all the time... I'm so sad... "
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what would you
tell that person to do?
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You know, a Biblical
Counselor is not a proof-texter
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who says, "Here's a promise,
go claim it until you feel good"
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that's not the way the
Bible is designed to work...
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it's designed to
go to the heart...
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I know, any time anyone
comes to me... with any issue
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that they're struggling with,
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they need a bigger and better
picture of the character of God
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so, I'm going to
listen compassionately
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and I'm going to
help them understand...
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how the Word of God...
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how the character of God
applies to their lives...
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now that sounds really
theoretical... so practically
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if somebody comes to me
struggling with depression...
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I probably am
first going to say,
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"Have you gone
to a Medical Doctor?
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Have you gotten your
B12, your Vitamin D...
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your hormones, those
kinds of things checked,
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are you sleeping well at
night, are you getting exercise,
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how are you eating?"
these are important things...
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Yes... and they
may have a huge effect
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on a person's depression...
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but I'm also going to look at,
"What's going on in your heart?"
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in other words,
I'm going to be asking,
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"When you're down...
what are the things that ring
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through your
mind... over and over?"
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because I know
how the devil works...
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he tells us lies about
the character of God...
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he tells us, "God is not love,
and therefore we are not loved"
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and a depressed person...
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there's no sin in
being depressed...
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depression is a temptation...
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Jesus was tempted in all points
like as we are yet without sin
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He was depressed in
the Garden of Gethsemane...
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He struggled...
but He overcame because
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He did not choose to
believe His feelings...
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he chose the
Word of God instead...
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a depressed person needs to know
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how to believe the Word of God
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instead of their feelings...
depression is a temptation
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it's a temptation to
think unbiblically about God...
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about ourselves...
about the meaning of life...
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Hmmm... so, I'm
glad to hear you say that
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you would ask the person
have they seen a Medical Doctor
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because sometimes it's
a bio-chemical issue...
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Right... that
can't be remedied by
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I won't say, "can't be remedied"
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there needs to be some kind
of bio-chemical modification...
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Right... so I'm
glad to hear you say that
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but also, people need to know
that there are... in addition to
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the bio-medical issues...
00:09:04.05\00:09:05.51
everything has a
spiritual component...
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Yes... every
situation has a spiritual
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component... so I
think it's really good
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that you would have
them look back at the Word
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and see who God really is...
and experience His love for them
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So, depression is an
invitation to think more deeply
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about what God
means in my life...
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Hmmm... it's an invitation
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to see how the Bible
applies to my life...
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when a person's depressed...
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they're
experiencing stronger temptation
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to think lies about themselves
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and the devil takes
advantage of that...
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he tells them, "You
never do anything right...
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you're not good enough, no
one's ever going to love you"
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Hmmm... hmmm...
"you're not worth enough... "
00:09:52.15\00:09:54.26
whatever it is... the
devil is going to strike
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at the heart of the two
cravings of every human heart
00:09:56.37\00:09:59.78
for love and for worth...
we all long to be deeply loved
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and we all long
for a sense of worth...
00:10:03.22\00:10:06.31
these two things we
have to get from God...
00:10:06.35\00:10:09.37
a sense that He is our
creator, that's why He loves us,
00:10:09.40\00:10:13.41
He created us in His
image, and He's our redeemer,
00:10:13.45\00:10:16.95
He redeemed us with His blood,
00:10:16.99\00:10:18.87
this is the measure
of how much I'm loved...
00:10:18.91\00:10:21.03
and this is the measure
of how much I'm worth...
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if I cannot believe those
things based on the Word of God,
00:10:23.01\00:10:26.82
I'm going to look to
someone or something else
00:10:26.85\00:10:29.73
for my sense of love and
worth and I will be powerless
00:10:29.76\00:10:33.33
to break away from my addiction
to that thing or that person
00:10:33.36\00:10:36.33
because it's not really about
that thing or that person...
00:10:36.37\00:10:39.60
it's about the fact that I
was created as a worshipper
00:10:39.64\00:10:42.65
I'm going to worship
whatever is my source of love
00:10:42.69\00:10:45.67
and worth... I can't help it...
00:10:45.71\00:10:47.36
That's right...
we're wired that way...
00:10:47.40\00:10:50.10
Yes... we are
wired to worship...
00:10:50.13\00:10:52.27
I like that title...
don't take my title...
00:10:52.31\00:10:55.07
And God has
designed us to worship...
00:10:55.11\00:10:57.97
that's why we can never have
deeply rich and meaningful lives
00:10:58.00\00:11:01.52
without Him... as the
source of our purpose,
00:11:01.56\00:11:04.91
our identity... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:11:04.94\00:11:06.69
we find our
purpose in our identity
00:11:06.72\00:11:08.32
and He makes us
feel loved and valued...
00:11:08.35\00:11:11.62
So, let's say you have
someone that comes to you
00:11:11.66\00:11:15.78
that's in an
abusive relationship,
00:11:15.82\00:11:18.56
what would you say to...
00:11:18.60\00:11:22.17
let's talk about
domestic violence
00:11:22.21\00:11:24.71
a woman comes to you...
her husband is coming home
00:11:24.74\00:11:28.51
and he's just beating
her on a regular basis
00:11:28.54\00:11:31.85
how would you
counsel her Biblically?
00:11:31.88\00:11:34.63
Well, I would
evaluate first of all...
00:11:34.66\00:11:37.26
how willing is she to
get out of this situation...
00:11:37.29\00:11:39.47
because her body is
the temple of God...
00:11:39.51\00:11:41.84
and I fear for her life...
but for me to forcibly remove
00:11:41.87\00:11:45.87
her from that situation,
may not do any good...
00:11:45.90\00:11:48.86
she'll be back in a week...
00:11:48.90\00:11:49.95
or she'll find
somebody else... even worse...
00:11:49.99\00:11:52.19
so, my goal is going to be...
00:11:52.23\00:11:54.75
not just to change
her circumstances...
00:11:54.79\00:11:57.32
but to help the
gospel change her heart...
00:11:57.35\00:12:00.30
and many people...
they get in that situation
00:12:00.34\00:12:03.26
because they long for someone
00:12:03.29\00:12:04.65
to make them feel like
they're worth something...
00:12:04.69\00:12:06.49
I'm not going to pull them
out of that situation forcibly
00:12:06.52\00:12:09.71
unless they can shift their
00:12:09.75\00:12:11.34
sense of... what
makes them valuable...
00:12:11.38\00:12:13.35
what makes them
loved... to God instead...
00:12:13.38\00:12:15.32
so my first goal is going to be
00:12:15.35\00:12:17.20
to help her to allow the gospel
to sink deeply into her heart
00:12:17.24\00:12:23.09
that she realizes...
00:12:23.12\00:12:24.23
"I am so loved by
God... I'm worth so much... "
00:12:24.27\00:12:27.82
that journey out of
an abuse situation...
00:12:27.85\00:12:30.72
is going to be hard...
00:12:30.75\00:12:32.02
she must rely on the
love of God for her...
00:12:32.06\00:12:35.65
or she's going to go right back.
00:12:35.68\00:12:37.24
Hmmm... you have a
history... a testimony...
00:12:37.27\00:12:42.36
would you share some of that
with us... with our Viewers...
00:12:42.39\00:12:46.65
Sure... you know... I
grew up in a Christian home
00:12:46.68\00:12:49.69
and in many ways
everything was ideal...
00:12:49.73\00:12:52.02
my parents weren't aware
that there was a relative
00:12:52.06\00:12:55.10
that was sexually abusing me,
00:12:55.13\00:12:56.51
and nobody knew
what I was going through
00:12:56.54\00:13:00.69
no one knew about the
terrible depression and anxiety
00:13:00.73\00:13:04.55
that I started going
through as a teenager...
00:13:04.58\00:13:07.32
How old were you? I
started... it especially got
00:13:07.36\00:13:10.09
very bad around the
time I turned 14 or 15...
00:13:10.13\00:13:13.07
and I just wanted
to die sometimes...
00:13:13.10\00:13:15.21
I kept on going to
School... getting good grades
00:13:15.25\00:13:19.14
laughing with my friends,
00:13:19.17\00:13:20.35
nobody knew what I was
going through... down inside...
00:13:20.38\00:13:22.96
but the anxiety became so severe
that I would have panic attacks
00:13:23.00\00:13:27.91
if a man walked behind me...
00:13:27.94\00:13:29.48
if I went into a grocery store
00:13:29.52\00:13:30.99
aisle where there
was a man standing,
00:13:31.02\00:13:32.67
a panic attack... I
wouldn't be able to breathe
00:13:32.70\00:13:35.30
I would just, you know,
want to curl up in a ball...
00:13:35.34\00:13:38.42
it was terrible...
00:13:38.46\00:13:39.53
so, I tried to
manipulate my circumstances
00:13:39.57\00:13:43.82
to stay away from places where
I would have a panic attack
00:13:43.86\00:13:46.61
and I kept telling myself lies
00:13:46.64\00:13:48.92
"You're just making it all up,
00:13:48.96\00:13:51.17
you're just making a
big deal about nothing... "
00:13:51.20\00:13:54.13
but it was only when I
was willing to finally find
00:13:54.16\00:13:57.06
my source of
love and worth in God,
00:13:57.10\00:14:00.46
that He gave me the courage
to tackle what I'd been through
00:14:00.50\00:14:03.64
and to be able to find
true Biblical healing...
00:14:03.67\00:14:06.71
I don't deal with
those things anymore...
00:14:06.74\00:14:08.64
the depression,
the anxiety, you know,
00:14:08.68\00:14:10.54
temptations will come to me...
00:14:10.57\00:14:11.82
"How are you going
to take care of that...
00:14:11.85\00:14:13.95
how are you
going to afford that?"
00:14:13.98\00:14:15.21
but I can meet them with
the promises of God's Word
00:14:15.24\00:14:18.12
Amen... and when
temptation comes to me
00:14:18.16\00:14:20.89
to depression, you know,
00:14:20.93\00:14:22.05
"Nobody is ever
going to love you anyway...
00:14:22.08\00:14:24.20
you're never going
to do it well enough...
00:14:24.23\00:14:26.28
your house is never
going to be clean enough... "
00:14:26.31\00:14:28.60
I recognize these
temptations for what they are...
00:14:28.63\00:14:30.80
they are the
devil's lies about me,
00:14:30.84\00:14:32.23
"You're not going
to be worth enough"
00:14:32.26\00:14:34.11
Hmmm... "unless you
have a perfect house
00:14:34.15\00:14:36.22
perfect
children... perfect face... "
00:14:36.26\00:14:38.19
So, when you were going through
00:14:38.23\00:14:41.65
this whole
period of sexual abuse,
00:14:41.68\00:14:45.03
were you afraid to
tell your parents...
00:14:45.07\00:14:48.10
did you think they
wouldn't believe you...
00:14:48.13\00:14:51.09
what do you think stopped
you from telling your parents?
00:14:51.12\00:14:54.65
You know, he died when I was
ten right after I accused him...
00:14:54.69\00:14:58.37
The abuser? The abuser did...
00:14:58.40\00:14:59.61
and I was just too
young to process...
00:14:59.64\00:15:03.67
my parents were
raising me out in the country
00:15:03.70\00:15:07.16
in a wonderful place in
the woods and the fields,
00:15:07.19\00:15:10.58
they thought that nothing
would possibly happen to me
00:15:10.62\00:15:13.75
because they knew I was
only with safe people...
00:15:13.79\00:15:16.85
they never suspected that this
relative would ever possibly
00:15:16.89\00:15:19.77
abuse me... it
never entered their heads,
00:15:19.81\00:15:21.95
so they had never warned
me, and never talked with me,
00:15:21.98\00:15:24.45
this is why, I talk
with my children regularly
00:15:24.48\00:15:26.45
about "what would you do... "
00:15:26.49\00:15:27.59
"What if this person were
to touch you in this way...
00:15:27.62\00:15:31.06
who would you tell...
00:15:31.09\00:15:32.99
what if mommy and
daddy weren't there... "
00:15:33.03\00:15:34.45
because I want them to know
00:15:34.49\00:15:35.94
that they can always
say, "No" to an adult...
00:15:35.97\00:15:38.93
because I never knew that I
could say "no" to an adult...
00:15:38.97\00:15:41.30
I knew you were bad if
you disobeyed a grown-up...
00:15:41.33\00:15:45.10
and so I had two competing
moral systems telling me,
00:15:45.14\00:15:48.50
"You're bad if you
tell, you're bad if you don't"
00:15:48.53\00:15:51.46
Hmmm... this is a very
important point Nicole,
00:15:51.50\00:15:54.40
because children...
you know that there must be
00:15:54.44\00:15:58.45
so much confusion going on...
"I can't be disrespectful to
00:15:58.48\00:16:03.26
this adult... but yet
something's going on here
00:16:03.29\00:16:06.43
that isn't right... " Right...
00:16:06.47\00:16:08.48
the two competing
issues that is a great point...
00:16:08.52\00:16:12.05
that must be... where
00:16:12.08\00:16:13.79
so many children are...
00:16:13.82\00:16:15.50
that are going
through abuse, "Do I tell?"
00:16:15.53\00:16:17.82
the other thing is...
00:16:17.85\00:16:19.18
it's so important to
talk to your children
00:16:19.22\00:16:21.80
to make sure that you
create a safe environment
00:16:21.84\00:16:25.64
in which they can
come to you and say,
00:16:25.68\00:16:27.98
"Mom, somebody is touching
me in the wrong place... "
00:16:28.02\00:16:32.87
or they can tell you that
00:16:32.90\00:16:34.84
because you have
created an environment
00:16:34.88\00:16:37.14
that makes them
comfortable to do that...
00:16:37.18\00:16:39.36
and you will
believe them if they say,
00:16:39.40\00:16:41.91
"Mom, something is going
on" Exactly... exactly...
00:16:41.94\00:16:44.89
I think that is such a
healthy thing because...
00:16:44.92\00:16:47.83
and I did that with
my boys coming up...
00:16:47.87\00:16:49.91
"Is anybody touching
you" because I want to know
00:16:49.95\00:16:54.01
and I wanted them to
feel comfortable telling me
00:16:54.04\00:16:58.03
that something was or wasn't...
thankfully, it didn't...
00:16:58.06\00:17:01.74
but you still want to
make sure that your children
00:17:01.78\00:17:04.26
feel comfortable
enough to do that...
00:17:04.30\00:17:06.12
Sexual abuse doesn't have
to destroy a person's life,
00:17:06.15\00:17:08.64
Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:08.68\00:17:09.79
any kind of abuse
doesn't have to...
00:17:09.82\00:17:12.06
the reason abuse is so damaging
00:17:12.10\00:17:14.28
is because it strikes
at the root of our belief
00:17:14.31\00:17:17.86
in the character of God...
00:17:17.89\00:17:18.94
Hmmm... how so?
00:17:18.97\00:17:20.22
when a child is abused by say...
00:17:20.26\00:17:22.77
a person that is in a
position position of trust
00:17:22.80\00:17:25.03
maybe a significant caregiver,
a parent or something like that,
00:17:25.07\00:17:28.14
that person was responsible
for showing this child
00:17:28.18\00:17:31.39
what God is like...
all of us form our picture
00:17:31.43\00:17:34.68
of who God is...
based on our significant
00:17:34.71\00:17:36.87
caregivers... that's why
God makes us live in families
00:17:36.90\00:17:39.88
we don't just hatch out of
eggs somewhere in the forest,
00:17:39.92\00:17:42.83
you know... He wants us to
live in a relationship network
00:17:42.86\00:17:46.01
because relationships with
others are how we learn about
00:17:46.04\00:17:48.80
our relationship with Him
from our earliest years...
00:17:48.83\00:17:51.82
the problem is... there
has never been a perfect parent
00:17:51.86\00:17:54.81
so every child is
born into a situation...
00:17:54.85\00:17:58.20
where their
significant caregivers
00:17:58.23\00:18:00.57
in some way are going to
warp their picture of who God is
00:18:00.60\00:18:03.43
sometimes that's by abuse,
sometimes it's by neglect,
00:18:03.47\00:18:06.26
sometimes their parents die...
00:18:06.30\00:18:07.74
you can't stop the fact that
we live in a sinful, ugly world
00:18:07.77\00:18:11.57
bad things happen...
00:18:11.61\00:18:12.75
but that's kind
of good news in a way
00:18:12.78\00:18:15.02
because that means
God surely must have
00:18:15.06\00:18:17.21
a secondary system in place...
00:18:17.24\00:18:19.21
where He can restore
our picture of who He is...
00:18:19.25\00:18:21.49
Hmmm... and that's what we have
00:18:21.53\00:18:23.14
in the Word of God...
that's why I believe in
00:18:23.17\00:18:24.99
Biblical
Counseling so strongly because
00:18:25.02\00:18:26.75
Biblical Counseling is speaking
the gospel into people's lives
00:18:26.78\00:18:30.72
in areas that they need to
understand His character better
00:18:30.76\00:18:34.66
and every Christian
should be a Biblical Counselor
00:18:34.70\00:18:37.42
because Biblical Counseling
is simply helping people
00:18:37.46\00:18:40.15
to apply the gospel to life...
00:18:40.18\00:18:41.27
So, do you have,
with your ministry
00:18:41.30\00:18:45.14
do you have a system in
place to train others...
00:18:45.18\00:18:50.11
let's talk about your ministry
00:18:50.15\00:18:52.54
and what it is and what
you're doing with your husband.
00:18:52.58\00:18:55.18
Well, mostly, I'm a
homeschooling mom...
00:18:55.21\00:18:58.48
raising my
children... and then...
00:18:58.51\00:19:01.71
people have started asking us
to speak in different places...
00:19:01.74\00:19:04.78
and do what we can...
00:19:04.82\00:19:06.46
to share the
gospel with everyone...
00:19:06.50\00:19:08.30
so, I do personal
counseling when I can...
00:19:08.34\00:19:11.63
but often, I'm just swamped
with e- mails from people
00:19:11.66\00:19:14.33
all over the world... asking,
00:19:14.36\00:19:15.54
"How does the gospel
apply to this situation,
00:19:15.58\00:19:17.56
in this situation,
here's how I'm hurting... "
00:19:17.59\00:19:19.54
I just do the best I can...
00:19:19.58\00:19:21.72
I have to make sure that my
children are taken care of...
00:19:21.75\00:19:24.70
my home is running as
smoothly as possible...
00:19:24.73\00:19:27.48
and sometimes I'm
counseling with people
00:19:27.52\00:19:30.13
while I'm folding
laundry and doing ironing...
00:19:30.16\00:19:32.72
chopping vegetables
You're multi-tasking...
00:19:32.76\00:19:35.24
It's the best I can do...
I have to preach the gospel
00:19:35.28\00:19:37.75
anywhere because God
has transformed my life...
00:19:37.78\00:19:40.67
I just can't tell you how
wonderful it is... to be free...
00:19:40.70\00:19:43.87
from all of the
pain and the darkness
00:19:43.91\00:19:46.78
that I used to go through,
my heart goes out to any person
00:19:46.81\00:19:49.34
who is going through that...
and I just want to go around...
00:19:49.37\00:19:51.57
unlocking people's
shackles everywhere I go...
00:19:51.61\00:19:54.66
I don't enjoy speaking in public
00:19:54.69\00:19:57.39
I don't enjoy getting up in
front and having people say,
00:19:57.43\00:20:01.05
"I have a question for
you... " Oh dear, another one...
00:20:01.09\00:20:04.68
"Lord help me, I
don't know what to say... "
00:20:04.71\00:20:07.30
but He always gives the answers
00:20:07.33\00:20:08.61
because the answers
are always in His Word...
00:20:08.65\00:20:11.38
And that's the key...
you know, that's the key...
00:20:11.42\00:20:14.08
Practical Christianity...
how do we live out the gospel
00:20:14.11\00:20:19.58
that to me is what...
this Network, Dare to Dream,
00:20:19.61\00:20:22.62
is about...
Practical Christianity
00:20:22.66\00:20:24.79
3ABN... Practical
Christianity because...
00:20:24.82\00:20:27.76
not only do we want
to know the principles...
00:20:27.79\00:20:30.28
we want to know how to
apply the principles...
00:20:30.32\00:20:32.54
and so, that's what you're
saying that people come to you
00:20:32.58\00:20:36.38
to... not just find
out what the principles are
00:20:36.42\00:20:39.28
but now, how do I
apply them in my life...
00:20:39.32\00:20:41.73
Right... I can
tell any person...
00:20:41.76\00:20:43.83
ahead of time...
when they're coming in
00:20:43.87\00:20:45.46
I know if they're struggling
with something serious
00:20:45.49\00:20:48.82
and they are wanting to get some
Biblical Counseling on it...
00:20:48.85\00:20:51.26
chances are... what
they're really struggling with
00:20:51.29\00:20:54.18
is some misperception
of the character of God...
00:20:54.21\00:20:57.07
he doesn't feel
like he's loved...
00:20:57.10\00:20:58.92
and particularly to a
person who has been abused...
00:20:58.95\00:21:01.43
God doesn't feel
loving... it feels like...
00:21:01.46\00:21:04.48
if He were really loving...
00:21:04.52\00:21:05.60
He would have stopped
this from happening to me...
00:21:05.63\00:21:08.11
a person who is
addicted, likewise,
00:21:08.14\00:21:10.04
has a very difficult time
seeing God as a God of love
00:21:10.07\00:21:13.55
because if He were love...
why would He want to have
00:21:13.58\00:21:17.02
anything to do
with somebody like me?
00:21:17.06\00:21:19.29
you know... I'm
disgusting... I'm despicable...
00:21:19.32\00:21:22.61
I do these things that
I know I shouldn't do...
00:21:22.64\00:21:25.95
so, all of us... have
these barriers in our minds
00:21:25.98\00:21:29.25
that make it
harder for us to believe
00:21:29.28\00:21:30.91
that God is really who
He says He is in His Word...
00:21:30.94\00:21:32.92
instead of who
we feel like He is,
00:21:32.95\00:21:35.08
and who our circumstances
seem to tell us... He is...
00:21:35.11\00:21:38.13
And if you haven't
had a good father...
00:21:38.17\00:21:40.78
or if you've had a
father who has abused you
00:21:40.82\00:21:44.50
or if you have a father who
is angry and mean and unloving
00:21:44.53\00:21:49.96
you're going to subconsciously
associate that kind of attitude
00:21:49.99\00:21:55.38
with God... That's right...
00:21:55.42\00:21:56.79
and so... what
you're saying about
00:21:56.83\00:21:59.69
God's true character...
and people understanding
00:21:59.73\00:22:04.07
who God really is...
the Bible will show you
00:22:04.10\00:22:07.93
and you also... God
will reveal Himself to you.
00:22:07.97\00:22:11.73
Yes, I often tell people...
I liken our search for God...
00:22:11.76\00:22:16.78
to a sponge...
that's being immersed
00:22:16.82\00:22:19.71
in a sink full of
warm, soapy water...
00:22:19.75\00:22:22.52
Hmmm... and yet,
it comes up dry...
00:22:22.55\00:22:25.29
Hmmm... over and over...
00:22:25.33\00:22:27.21
I talk with people...
00:22:27.25\00:22:29.07
I can't tell you how
many people... I talk with
00:22:29.10\00:22:30.72
who come to me and say,
"I'm trying to spend time
00:22:30.75\00:22:32.30
with God... I'm trying to
pray and study the Bible...
00:22:32.33\00:22:35.26
but God feels so far away...
" and in that situation...
00:22:35.29\00:22:38.29
I have to say, you know,
00:22:38.33\00:22:39.37
"You're like a sponge...
being sunk into the sink full
00:22:39.40\00:22:42.05
of warm soapy water... "
00:22:42.08\00:22:43.15
it has to be warm and soapy...
somehow that helps, right?
00:22:43.19\00:22:45.49
It sounds good though...
00:22:45.52\00:22:46.93
"and the sponge
comes up dry every time...
00:22:46.97\00:22:49.17
because it's
inside as a Ziploc bag"
00:22:49.21\00:22:50.70
Hmmm...
00:22:50.73\00:22:52.56
that's Ziploc bag
is our misperception
00:22:52.59\00:22:55.26
of the character of God...
00:22:55.30\00:22:56.86
if I feel that every
time I fall into my sin...
00:22:56.89\00:23:00.21
God is disgusted with me...
00:23:00.25\00:23:02.38
He doesn't see me as
lovable or worthwhile anymore...
00:23:02.42\00:23:05.34
if I feel that about God...
00:23:05.37\00:23:06.75
I cannot come to
Him with my addiction...
00:23:06.79\00:23:09.20
Hmmm... if I feel fundamentally
00:23:09.24\00:23:12.13
permanently disfigured by
the fact that someone has sinned
00:23:12.17\00:23:15.14
against me... sexual abuse
or any other kinds of abuse
00:23:15.18\00:23:18.12
it could be that "I
never fit in at school... "
00:23:18.16\00:23:20.33
"no one ever told me
that I was beautiful... "
00:23:20.36\00:23:22.47
whatever it is that I have...
taken as the devil's lie...
00:23:22.50\00:23:25.71
about my
lovability and my worth...
00:23:25.75\00:23:29.04
and accept it...
00:23:29.07\00:23:30.42
if I've drunk that
poison in some way...
00:23:30.46\00:23:33.15
then I have a misconception
about the character of God...
00:23:33.18\00:23:36.20
"maybe God would love me if" or
"maybe people would love me if"
00:23:36.24\00:23:40.14
or "maybe I can be
happier or fulfilled if... "
00:23:40.18\00:23:43.79
but God is not about
helping us to somehow function
00:23:43.82\00:23:47.40
a little bit
better in this world...
00:23:47.44\00:23:48.60
He wants to pierce that
Ziploc bag around our hearts
00:23:48.63\00:23:52.62
and satisfy us...
00:23:52.65\00:23:53.89
with a deep sense of
being loved and worthwhile...
00:23:53.92\00:23:57.08
I love that metaphor of the
sponge in the warm, soapy water
00:23:57.11\00:24:02.10
I mean, really,
because you just... with God...
00:24:02.14\00:24:04.91
you just want to just...
absorb all of that goodness
00:24:04.95\00:24:08.89
and that richness and
the love that He has...
00:24:08.92\00:24:11.53
you know... it's just...
so, I love that metaphor...
00:24:11.57\00:24:14.44
It's a lifelong
process you know Yeah...
00:24:14.48\00:24:16.31
it's so easy for us
to get discouraged...
00:24:16.35\00:24:18.11
especially if we perceive that
God demands perfection of us
00:24:18.14\00:24:21.33
and anything less than
perfection... is failure...
00:24:21.37\00:24:24.04
Yes... so often,
I deal with people
00:24:24.07\00:24:26.83
who are struggling
with this and they say,
00:24:26.87\00:24:28.72
"I'm not acceptable to God...
" in one way or another...
00:24:28.75\00:24:31.49
when it gets to the
bottom of everything...
00:24:31.52\00:24:33.37
they feel... "God
would love me... if... "
00:24:33.41\00:24:35.22
"God would value me if... "
00:24:35.25\00:24:37.03
It goes back to works... Yes...
00:24:37.07\00:24:39.98
"if I do this...
God will love me...
00:24:40.01\00:24:42.35
but if I do
that... He won't... "
00:24:42.38\00:24:44.61
and what has to
be understood is...
00:24:44.65\00:24:46.90
"there is nothing
that can separate us
00:24:46.93\00:24:49.11
from the love of God... "
That's right, there's nothing...
00:24:49.14\00:24:51.18
nothing... nothing ever...
00:24:51.21\00:24:52.69
He doesn't stop loving
you because you make a mistake
00:24:52.72\00:24:55.52
he doesn't stop loving
you because you've fallen...
00:24:55.55\00:24:58.32
He loves us still... we don't...
00:24:58.35\00:25:00.92
we don't stop loving our
kids because they make a mistake
00:25:00.95\00:25:03.56
Right... and so, how much more,
00:25:03.59\00:25:05.51
the Divine Parent...
00:25:05.55\00:25:06.78
But if a child has
grown up with parents
00:25:06.82\00:25:09.85
who would only love them
if... it's much harder for them
00:25:09.88\00:25:13.20
to see God as a
God of love... Right...
00:25:13.23\00:25:14.68
that's why when
somebody comes to me saying,
00:25:14.72\00:25:16.16
"I'm struggling with severe
anxiety or depression... "
00:25:16.19\00:25:18.48
I'm going to
talk with them about
00:25:18.51\00:25:20.24
"how is that
manifesting in their life"
00:25:20.28\00:25:22.26
but I'm not going to leave it
00:25:22.29\00:25:23.45
at that...
because I need to know...
00:25:23.49\00:25:24.82
"how has your picture
of God... been warped...
00:25:24.85\00:25:27.54
has it been by your parents...
was it been by a teacher,
00:25:27.58\00:25:29.98
was it by a pastor, was
it by your circumstances"
00:25:30.02\00:25:33.45
whatever it is... in some way
our picture of God is warped...
00:25:33.48\00:25:37.35
and therefore, we
start feeling like,
00:25:37.39\00:25:39.86
"I'm not lovable, I'm
not worthwhile unless... "
00:25:39.89\00:25:42.62
and then the devil will dangle
that carrot in front of us
00:25:42.65\00:25:45.20
forever on a stick... "if
you can just get rich enough
00:25:45.24\00:25:47.75
if you can get beautiful enough,
00:25:47.79\00:25:49.68
if you can just
get popular enough,
00:25:49.72\00:25:51.78
then maybe
you'll achieve 'worth'
00:25:51.81\00:25:53.46
then maybe you'll be lovable"
00:25:53.49\00:25:54.93
and it's an endless
cycle into destruction...
00:25:54.96\00:25:59.11
we must find God... in
the midst of everything...
00:25:59.15\00:26:02.71
Yes... these
struggles that we have
00:26:02.74\00:26:05.10
they are God's
invitations to our hearts...
00:26:05.13\00:26:07.00
Hmmm... When someone says,
00:26:07.03\00:26:08.22
"This is what I'm
struggling with...
00:26:08.26\00:26:09.39
I crave this
relationship with this person...
00:26:09.43\00:26:11.85
I cannot get away from her,
00:26:11.89\00:26:13.49
I don't know how
to accept breakup... "
00:26:13.52\00:26:15.19
I'm not going to say,
00:26:15.22\00:26:16.77
"Well, here are 10 happy
steps that will help you... "
00:26:16.80\00:26:19.51
this is not the problem...
the problem is the heart...
00:26:19.54\00:26:22.21
this person is looking
to that person to satisfy
00:26:22.25\00:26:25.98
what only God can satisfy...
and times have broken us
00:26:26.02\00:26:29.71
are the ideal time
for us to allow God
00:26:29.75\00:26:33.29
to pierce that Ziploc bag
and satisfy us with Himself
00:26:33.32\00:26:36.74
because... He is the
one who longs to show us
00:26:36.77\00:26:40.17
"You are so deeply loved... "
and in the midst of these times
00:26:40.21\00:26:44.44
it's when someone says,
00:26:44.48\00:26:45.63
"This is what
I'm struggling with"
00:26:45.67\00:26:46.93
I can say, "What lie are
you hearing from the devil?"
00:26:46.96\00:26:50.51
Hmmm... and then... I can say,
00:26:50.55\00:26:52.36
"Now, let's find
out in God's Word
00:26:52.39\00:26:54.13
what He says about
you in this area... "
00:26:54.16\00:26:56.34
That's great...
what is your website...
00:26:56.38\00:26:58.48
we'll put your website
up... It's www. heartthirst. com
00:26:58.52\00:27:01.77
like a thirsty
heart... www. heartthirst. com
00:27:01.80\00:27:06.11
yes... www. heartthirst. com
00:27:06.15\00:27:07.63
we have lots of resources there,
00:27:07.67\00:27:09.08
a lot of seminars that
my husband and I have done
00:27:09.12\00:27:10.86
going over addiction, abuse,
00:27:10.89\00:27:13.21
how to build a deep, connecting
relationship with God...
00:27:13.24\00:27:16.10
how to have healthy
relationships with one another.
00:27:16.14\00:27:18.71
Well, we thank you so
much for being with us...
00:27:18.74\00:27:21.21
Thank you...
00:27:21.25\00:27:22.77
Thank you so much for these tips
00:27:22.81\00:27:24.34
and I hope Audience...
that you have been blessed
00:27:24.38\00:27:27.64
by what Nicole has been saying,
study the Word for yourself
00:27:27.67\00:27:31.30
you know, God's goodness...
is going to carry you through...
00:27:31.33\00:27:34.85
you just have to
hold on to Him...
00:27:34.88\00:27:36.78
and study His Word...
and watch your life change...
00:27:36.82\00:27:40.74
that's the key...
if we stay connected...
00:27:40.77\00:27:43.21
the Bible says,
"Abide in me... "
00:27:43.24\00:27:44.73
Jesus said in John
15... "Abide in me...
00:27:44.76\00:27:47.73
without me... you
can't do anything... "
00:27:47.77\00:27:50.95
but with Jesus... all
things are possible...
00:27:50.98\00:27:54.09
Well, that's the end of
our Program for today...
00:27:54.13\00:27:56.97
thank you so
much for tuning in...
00:27:57.00\00:27:58.45
join us next time...
because you know what...
00:27:58.49\00:28:00.97
it just wouldn't be
the same without you...
00:28:01.01\00:28:03.45