Stay tuned to meet a man
00:00:01.33\00:00:02.66
who was once a part
of a major crime family
00:00:02.70\00:00:04.60
and is now proud to be
in the family of God...
00:00:04.63\00:00:07.34
My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:00:07.37\00:00:09.07
and you're
watching Urban Report...
00:00:09.10\00:00:10.94
Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
00:00:33.66\00:00:36.30
My guest today
is John Turnipseed
00:00:36.33\00:00:38.77
Author of "Bloodline"
00:00:38.80\00:00:40.87
and Director of the
Center for Fathering
00:00:40.90\00:00:43.91
in Minneapolis, Minnesota...
00:00:43.94\00:00:45.94
Welcome to Urban Report John...
00:00:46.01\00:00:48.28
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:48.31\00:00:50.41
Oh, it is such a
privilege to have you on...
00:00:50.45\00:00:54.32
I first learned about
you from a radio interview
00:00:54.35\00:00:58.19
that I heard... with
you talking about this book
00:00:58.22\00:01:02.06
and when I heard
you... I thought,
00:01:02.09\00:01:04.89
"I have to get
him on Urban Report...
00:01:04.93\00:01:07.76
I have to have you
on Urban Report... "
00:01:07.76\00:01:10.53
this book is powerful and
your life has been so amazing
00:01:10.57\00:01:16.44
you start the first
chapter with the words,
00:01:16.47\00:01:20.34
"I shouldn't be alive today... "
00:01:20.38\00:01:22.51
tell us why you
shouldn't be alive...
00:01:22.54\00:01:25.71
There has been just
too many times in my life
00:01:25.78\00:01:28.58
where I should
have died... there's...
00:01:28.65\00:01:31.75
people have shot
at me pointblank...
00:01:31.79\00:01:34.62
people have done things to
me... been in rooms with me...
00:01:34.66\00:01:39.43
with weapons and
things that for some reason
00:01:39.46\00:01:42.83
they were not able to
kill me for some reason
00:01:42.86\00:01:46.23
I've been put
in a kidnap before,
00:01:46.27\00:01:48.67
and put in a trunk and taken out
to the woods to be killed and
00:01:48.70\00:01:52.57
and the trunk
opened and I just got out
00:01:52.61\00:01:55.24
and started running
and they couldn't catch me
00:01:55.28\00:01:57.11
and just
amazing, amazing things...
00:01:57.15\00:02:01.42
have happened in my life...
00:02:01.48\00:02:03.62
but I know that it
wasn't luck I wasn't lucky...
00:02:03.65\00:02:08.06
I'm so glad you said that John
00:02:08.09\00:02:10.43
because so many people
will use the word "luck"
00:02:10.46\00:02:13.50
"Oh, it was just
luck... " no we know...
00:02:13.53\00:02:16.23
that it wasn't "luck"
00:02:16.26\00:02:17.67
that God had His hand
on you your whole life...
00:02:17.70\00:02:21.57
so let's talk about your
life, where did you grow up?
00:02:21.60\00:02:25.44
Southern Alabama...
a place called Bottom
00:02:25.47\00:02:29.14
I grew up in a Christian family
going to Church every single day
00:02:29.18\00:02:33.42
my grandmother
telling me at age 5
00:02:33.45\00:02:35.85
that I was
going to be a preacher
00:02:35.88\00:02:38.22
I had 3 or 4 Church
suits that I wore every day
00:02:38.25\00:02:41.29
and I loved the Church...
00:02:41.32\00:02:42.66
and my father was
a very good father
00:02:42.69\00:02:44.76
and took care of us and
was a deacon in the Choir
00:02:44.79\00:02:48.16
and all kinds of
just great things,
00:02:48.20\00:02:51.00
didn't know what hunger
was grew up on a farm...
00:02:51.03\00:02:54.70
just being loved
00:02:54.74\00:02:56.17
and grandmothers on
each side of me... man...
00:02:56.20\00:02:58.47
I had it made...
00:02:58.51\00:02:59.84
So you came from a
two-parent household...
00:02:59.87\00:03:03.65
Yeah... your dad was very active
00:03:03.68\00:03:06.01
in your family... and
very much a part of Church life
00:03:06.05\00:03:09.92
and you were going
to Church every day...
00:03:09.95\00:03:12.85
not just on the
weekends but every day...
00:03:12.89\00:03:16.19
Every day... and
so, something happened
00:03:16.22\00:03:19.49
when you were 7 years
old... tell us what happened...
00:03:19.53\00:03:22.60
my father left to come
to Minneapolis, Minnesota...
00:03:22.63\00:03:26.60
to start a new life...
he felt that Alabama was not
00:03:26.63\00:03:30.57
the place that he
wanted to raise us
00:03:30.61\00:03:31.97
Martin Luther King had
started some things down there
00:03:32.01\00:03:35.84
and it was very
unpleasant... so he came up here
00:03:35.88\00:03:38.75
and a year
later... we followed him...
00:03:38.78\00:03:41.02
and when we got here...
he was not the same person...
00:03:41.05\00:03:45.95
my father who I loved so
dearly had turned into...
00:03:46.02\00:03:50.89
the boogie man...
00:03:50.93\00:03:53.19
really... in my
life... I was scared of him...
00:03:53.23\00:03:55.13
my mother was scared of him,
00:03:55.20\00:03:57.10
I'd never seen
him raise his voice
00:03:57.13\00:03:59.77
and he was now... cursing...
and had put some straightener
00:03:59.80\00:04:04.34
in his hair... and...
had multiple girlfriends
00:04:04.37\00:04:07.98
all of this... I'd
never witnessed before...
00:04:08.01\00:04:11.55
and he refused to go to
Church and he cursed now...
00:04:11.61\00:04:14.48
he was a different man...
00:04:14.52\00:04:15.85
So what was it that
happened in his life
00:04:15.88\00:04:18.85
that changed him so radically...
00:04:18.89\00:04:20.99
from the
Christian dad that you knew
00:04:21.02\00:04:23.36
to now this man
that you don't even know?
00:04:23.39\00:04:25.99
He came up here and fell
into... with a group of people
00:04:26.03\00:04:29.86
he used to go to a Bar
called "The Bucket of Blood"
00:04:29.90\00:04:33.60
I remember the name of it...
00:04:33.64\00:04:35.10
it was a little
hole-in-the-wall Bar
00:04:35.14\00:04:37.84
and he'd take me
with him sometimes
00:04:37.87\00:04:40.31
and I'd sit outside in the
car waiting for him to come out
00:04:40.34\00:04:42.74
and all types of ladies
of the night and all that
00:04:42.78\00:04:45.61
that was his "crowd" now
00:04:45.65\00:04:47.68
that was... the people
that he hung around with
00:04:47.75\00:04:49.55
he was a tall, good-looking
guy with a lot of charm...
00:04:49.58\00:04:53.92
and just started drinking...
he had never drank before
00:04:53.96\00:04:58.39
and left the Church... the
support system of the Church
00:04:58.43\00:05:02.46
was nowhere around him anymore
the family... structure...
00:05:02.50\00:05:07.04
Isn't it interesting how...
and we talk about this a lot
00:05:07.07\00:05:11.64
on this Program... but
isn't it interesting how
00:05:11.67\00:05:15.11
Satan has his plan for you,
and he just wants to destroy...
00:05:15.14\00:05:18.61
and he'll just take
you from Point A to Point B
00:05:18.65\00:05:22.05
to Point C...
all the way down...
00:05:22.08\00:05:24.42
because your dad
left there one way...
00:05:24.45\00:05:26.55
and when you hooked
back up with him again...
00:05:26.59\00:05:30.33
he was a totally
different person...
00:05:30.36\00:05:32.13
because he had allowed
himself to go down that path...
00:05:32.16\00:05:35.63
so how did that impact you?
00:05:35.66\00:05:38.33
That... it sort of...
00:05:38.40\00:05:41.00
it took the roof off of
my house... basically...
00:05:41.04\00:05:44.54
I was a kid that was
spoiled with a father's love
00:05:44.57\00:05:47.98
I was a kid that knew... I
had never been spanked before
00:05:48.01\00:05:51.98
I was a kid that
was just a good kid...
00:05:52.01\00:05:55.12
I knew who I was...
00:05:55.15\00:05:56.52
and I just
wanted to please my dad
00:05:56.55\00:05:58.52
I wanted to please
God and knew who He was...
00:05:58.55\00:06:01.89
and when I saw this
happen to my father...
00:06:01.92\00:06:05.13
and I started praying every
day that he wouldn't come home
00:06:05.16\00:06:10.83
I used to pray that
he'd come home safely...
00:06:10.87\00:06:12.73
now I was praying that
he wouldn't come home...
00:06:12.80\00:06:14.64
and praying that
something happened to him
00:06:14.70\00:06:18.64
that he died... anything...
to keep him away from us
00:06:18.67\00:06:22.31
the person that I loved so much,
00:06:22.34\00:06:25.21
now became the
person that I just feared...
00:06:25.25\00:06:28.15
and he was like a monster...
00:06:28.18\00:06:30.15
and the spirit that
got a hold of him...
00:06:30.19\00:06:33.36
and I just... I
didn't want him in the way...
00:06:33.39\00:06:37.39
and that Satan had just
taken my father away from me...
00:06:37.43\00:06:41.20
and with that... starts
destroying me and my brothers...
00:06:41.23\00:06:44.87
Oh! that must have
been so traumatic...
00:06:44.90\00:06:49.37
for you and your
brothers... and your mother...
00:06:49.40\00:06:52.41
tell us about how your
dad was treating your mom...
00:06:52.44\00:06:55.38
every single night he beat my
mother... every single night...
00:06:55.41\00:07:00.55
I endured that
until I was about 8 years
00:07:00.62\00:07:06.76
watching that... and the only
time that I was away from it
00:07:06.79\00:07:11.26
was when I started
getting into trouble,
00:07:11.33\00:07:13.76
so I would go to
the Juvenile Center
00:07:13.83\00:07:16.16
I didn't want to be at home,
I would rather be in jail...
00:07:16.20\00:07:19.83
rather than seeing my mother
being beaten every night...
00:07:19.90\00:07:23.51
my dad... he was a jealous guy
00:07:23.54\00:07:25.94
and he would
come around the house
00:07:25.97\00:07:27.31
and accuse her of doing
things she wasn't doing...
00:07:27.34\00:07:29.88
every night he'd come
there to check on his house
00:07:29.91\00:07:32.48
and beat her up...
and then he'd leave...
00:07:32.51\00:07:34.18
and it just became...
00:07:34.22\00:07:37.65
it was the worst situation
that I could ever be in...
00:07:37.69\00:07:40.46
my five little
brothers were looking at me
00:07:40.49\00:07:42.22
like, "do something"
and we used to have sessions
00:07:42.26\00:07:45.59
where we actually had
planned to harm him...
00:07:45.63\00:07:47.76
and I was like
00:07:47.76\00:07:49.80
10 or 11 years old...
00:07:49.83\00:07:51.17
and these little
guys were trembling
00:07:51.20\00:07:53.40
and wanted me to harm my dad,
to stop him... and I couldn't...
00:07:53.44\00:07:57.81
and seemingly... the
prayers I was sending out...
00:07:57.84\00:08:00.94
they were not being answered.
00:08:00.98\00:08:02.81
So how did that impact your
00:08:02.84\00:08:04.61
relationship with
the Lord at that point?
00:08:04.65\00:08:06.95
I felt that there was no God...
that it was all a trick...
00:08:06.98\00:08:12.49
that I'd been... fooled...
00:08:12.52\00:08:15.06
that I was a fool
00:08:15.09\00:08:18.06
for believing
that there was a God
00:08:18.09\00:08:20.03
and that the only thing
that was going to save me
00:08:20.06\00:08:23.03
was me... and I
started looking for
00:08:23.06\00:08:25.67
people that could help
me out of the situation
00:08:25.70\00:08:29.10
and I found them...
in a very dark place...
00:08:29.14\00:08:32.47
I found a place full
of pimps and drug dealers
00:08:32.51\00:08:37.15
and gang bangers... and they...
sort of took me under their wing
00:08:37.18\00:08:40.48
and my dad was scared of them.
00:08:40.52\00:08:42.62
Isn't that
something, John, how...
00:08:42.65\00:08:45.62
the young men in our
culture often look to gangs
00:08:45.65\00:08:51.56
to kind of fill in the spot
that the dad is supposed to fill
00:08:51.59\00:08:55.13
for protection, for
that sense of belonging
00:08:55.16\00:08:59.20
and so, that's kind
of where you went...
00:08:59.23\00:09:02.87
When a child...
especially a young boy
00:09:02.90\00:09:06.41
does not feel safe...
that's the most horrible feeling
00:09:06.44\00:09:09.71
in the world... and
you will seek safety...
00:09:09.74\00:09:13.52
from anything that's available,
00:09:13.55\00:09:15.65
and if it's a kid
that's the biggest bully
00:09:15.68\00:09:18.22
on the block you'd
try to become his friend,
00:09:18.25\00:09:20.56
if there's a gang that's running
the streets that you live in...
00:09:20.59\00:09:24.56
you will try to be
a part of that gang...
00:09:24.63\00:09:27.23
so that you feel a
center of safety...
00:09:27.23\00:09:29.76
it's the worst feeling in
the world to feel unsafe...
00:09:29.83\00:09:32.63
Absolutely... and
to... as I read your story...
00:09:32.67\00:09:37.47
I realized how much
you had to deal with
00:09:37.51\00:09:40.78
just even going to School,
you have to be concerned about
00:09:40.81\00:09:45.55
"is something going to
happen on the way to School
00:09:45.61\00:09:47.52
something going to happen
when you get out of School...
00:09:47.55\00:09:49.68
is something going to happen
during the school day... "
00:09:49.75\00:09:52.42
you know, normal kids
don't have to deal with that
00:09:52.45\00:09:54.89
you get on the
bus, you go to School,
00:09:54.92\00:09:57.03
you have your school
day and you come home...
00:09:57.06\00:09:59.73
but life for you
was so tumultuous
00:09:59.79\00:10:03.47
how did you end up
getting into the gang...
00:10:03.50\00:10:07.04
how did they
enlist you into the gang?
00:10:07.07\00:10:10.97
I had a cousin that
came up from Chicago
00:10:11.01\00:10:14.84
and he gave me my first preview
into gangs and what they meant
00:10:14.88\00:10:19.18
and I idolized this guy...
00:10:19.21\00:10:21.52
and he kept me safe...
00:10:21.55\00:10:23.79
my dad, you know, was
sort of leery of him...
00:10:23.82\00:10:25.92
and then the Chicago
gang started coming up...
00:10:25.95\00:10:29.66
into Minnesota and I
was fascinated by them,
00:10:29.69\00:10:33.26
these guys were not
afraid of anything...
00:10:33.29\00:10:36.83
and then they had guns...
00:10:36.87\00:10:38.20
and they were like
12, 13, 14 years of age
00:10:38.23\00:10:40.57
just not just Chicago,
but St. Louis and other...
00:10:40.60\00:10:44.51
even from Wisconsin...
gangs had started filtering up
00:10:44.57\00:10:48.44
in Minnesota... and I
started hanging around
00:10:48.48\00:10:51.61
with those guys... and
they were into robberies
00:10:51.65\00:10:55.02
and all kinds of
stuff... and when I turned 18...
00:10:55.05\00:10:58.42
is when it really
materialized in my life
00:10:58.45\00:11:00.82
and I went to
jail for armed robbery
00:11:00.86\00:11:03.09
and by the time I was 18...
00:11:03.12\00:11:05.76
I threatened my dad...
made him leave my mother alone
00:11:05.79\00:11:08.46
I threatened him with a
gun, I almost killed him,
00:11:08.50\00:11:12.47
I was just... out-of-control...
00:11:12.50\00:11:14.34
and my father was
then scared of me...
00:11:14.37\00:11:16.54
I switched the table on him
00:11:16.57\00:11:18.91
and I got my
courage from the gangs
00:11:18.94\00:11:20.61
and I got into prison...
00:11:20.64\00:11:23.58
and I organized the
first prison gang in 1972
00:11:23.61\00:11:26.88
in Minnesota... and we
just ran a prison for 3 years
00:11:26.92\00:11:30.75
everything that
came into the prison...
00:11:30.79\00:11:33.62
if someone wanted it to be
safe, they had to deal with us,
00:11:33.66\00:11:36.69
if someone wanted drugs,
sex, whatever they wanted,
00:11:36.73\00:11:40.03
whatever dark thing
they wanted in that prison...
00:11:40.06\00:11:42.96
we controlled...
00:11:43.00\00:11:44.33
just through the
sheer force of the gang...
00:11:44.37\00:11:46.70
Without giving details...
because it could be a problem,
00:11:46.77\00:11:52.71
how did you get
00:11:52.74\00:11:54.11
those kinds of
substances into a prison...
00:11:54.14\00:11:58.08
it just seems so weird
00:11:58.11\00:12:01.98
that you can get
anything you want...
00:12:02.02\00:12:03.95
you can get sex in the
prison, how can you do that?
00:12:03.99\00:12:07.39
Well, we formed an
Organization a Nonprofit...
00:12:07.42\00:12:10.79
that dealt with
women coming into prison
00:12:10.83\00:12:15.73
to help prisoners...
00:12:15.76\00:12:17.10
that's the way we did it,
so we... on a weekly basis
00:12:17.13\00:12:20.60
ten women would
come into prison...
00:12:20.64\00:12:22.30
that I'd selected...
and come to private meetings
00:12:22.34\00:12:26.01
in the prison... with
inmates that I selected
00:12:26.04\00:12:29.54
to help us... and
that Group was a Nonprofit
00:12:29.58\00:12:33.05
and I won't say the name of it,
00:12:33.08\00:12:36.18
because they're
still alive today...
00:12:36.22\00:12:37.69
but they're not
the same Organization
00:12:37.72\00:12:39.15
and we just
infiltrated the Nonprofit
00:12:39.19\00:12:42.49
and made it...
they brought drugs in...
00:12:42.52\00:12:47.00
they provided sex...
00:12:47.03\00:12:48.33
some of the Guards there...
we had large amounts of money
00:12:48.36\00:12:51.90
while in prison because
we controlled all the drugs
00:12:51.93\00:12:55.37
and everything so,
Guards would take our money
00:12:55.40\00:12:58.81
in and out of the prison for us
00:12:58.84\00:13:00.54
gangs are very powerful
00:13:00.58\00:13:02.08
in their persuasion
00:13:02.14\00:13:03.58
especially when you
have a captive audience...
00:13:03.61\00:13:07.55
Yeah, yeah, I'm
sure... so, you were in a gang
00:13:07.58\00:13:11.49
not just any gang,
00:13:11.52\00:13:13.76
you formed the gang...
00:13:13.79\00:13:15.96
I formed the gang...
and you were in prison
00:13:15.99\00:13:19.43
for how long... the first time?
00:13:19.46\00:13:21.63
Three and a half years...
00:13:21.66\00:13:23.43
And during that time,
did you meet other prisoners
00:13:23.47\00:13:28.64
that kind of gotten more
steeped into that kind of life,
00:13:28.67\00:13:34.78
where was your
head at that time?
00:13:34.81\00:13:37.25
Well, during that time,
00:13:37.28\00:13:38.98
I was the leader
of the prison gang
00:13:39.01\00:13:43.65
and so, everything ran
through me... and at that time
00:13:43.69\00:13:47.06
they kept older
prisoners in another prison...
00:13:47.09\00:13:49.16
away from us...
00:13:49.19\00:13:50.53
and so I had control of
all the younger prisoners...
00:13:50.56\00:13:53.23
and a lot of them
were from different States
00:13:53.26\00:13:56.23
so I learned a lot
about different gangs
00:13:56.26\00:13:59.23
and different
ways of doing things
00:13:59.27\00:14:01.04
from a lot of different places,
00:14:01.07\00:14:02.70
and the most powerful
thing I learned about gangs
00:14:02.74\00:14:06.81
is that you seclude people
from their safety net, you know,
00:14:06.84\00:14:10.95
if a person had a
really good mother or something
00:14:10.98\00:14:14.55
you made a conflict between them
00:14:14.58\00:14:17.72
you made the people in the
prison depend wholly upon you...
00:14:17.75\00:14:21.19
and the most
important thing you did was...
00:14:21.22\00:14:24.59
was take away their safety...
just take away their safety...
00:14:24.63\00:14:27.20
and if you give people
power, a sense of power...
00:14:27.23\00:14:32.63
they will do
anything to keep it...
00:14:32.67\00:14:34.34
and so, that's how I kept them.
00:14:34.37\00:14:36.74
That's a very interesting point
because in a place like a prison
00:14:36.91\00:14:41.21
where you feel powerless...
to have a sense of power
00:14:41.24\00:14:45.45
has to be kind
of exhilarating...
00:14:45.48\00:14:48.28
it has to be...
Well, absolutely...
00:14:48.32\00:14:50.52
yeah, that must be really
kind of exciting to the prisoner
00:14:50.55\00:14:55.49
and almost validating...
since everything is taken away
00:14:55.52\00:15:00.50
you have nothing
anymore... really...
00:15:00.53\00:15:02.43
not even an
identity... you have a number...
00:15:02.46\00:15:04.93
so, its got to be kind
of exhilarating to have that
00:15:04.97\00:15:09.50
so, you go through that...
00:15:09.54\00:15:11.94
you come out...
00:15:11.97\00:15:14.58
and what do you do
after you get out...
00:15:14.61\00:15:16.58
do you say, "I'm
never going to be
00:15:16.61\00:15:18.28
a criminal
again... " what do you do?
00:15:18.31\00:15:19.91
No, that's just the beginning...
you figure out a way
00:15:19.95\00:15:23.62
that you can be a criminal
and not go back to jail again...
00:15:23.65\00:15:27.22
you know, that becomes the goal,
I met people in prison that
00:15:27.26\00:15:32.26
taught me things
about Alarm Systems and
00:15:32.29\00:15:34.83
things of that nature...
about the different sex trades
00:15:34.83\00:15:39.43
and things...
and how to make money
00:15:39.47\00:15:42.10
doing bad things to people,
and extortion and loan sharking
00:15:42.14\00:15:47.68
and all kinds of
stuff... you know,
00:15:47.71\00:15:49.38
I learned that from guys
that I was in prison with...
00:15:49.41\00:15:52.41
we had a lot of time
to think about things...
00:15:52.48\00:15:54.95
so, when I got out... it
was basically... making sure
00:15:54.98\00:15:59.45
that I had a
"fake job" to go to...
00:15:59.49\00:16:01.36
and I had somebody say
that I worked for them...
00:16:01.39\00:16:03.76
and I ran my criminal enterprise
this time... with my family...
00:16:03.79\00:16:08.16
it was safer to
work with family members
00:16:08.20\00:16:11.13
that we already had
a connection with...
00:16:11.17\00:16:14.00
than it was to become strangers
and since we had a large family
00:16:14.04\00:16:18.37
and a lot of the
men in my family...
00:16:18.41\00:16:20.58
did the same thing my dad
did... I don't know why...
00:16:20.61\00:16:23.14
it seemed like a spirit
invaded our whole family...
00:16:23.18\00:16:25.65
and at one time...
we were the largest gang
00:16:25.68\00:16:28.38
in the State of Minnesota,
it was all... family members...
00:16:28.45\00:16:32.55
Wow! so you mentioned
00:16:32.59\00:16:34.59
generations and
generational curses,
00:16:34.62\00:16:38.16
let's talk a little bit
about generational curses
00:16:38.19\00:16:41.00
for those who are
unfamiliar with that term...
00:16:41.03\00:16:43.83
explain it and then explain
how that affected your family.
00:16:43.87\00:16:47.50
Yeah, generational curses...
00:16:47.54\00:16:49.84
it is something that
follows each generation
00:16:49.87\00:16:52.74
sometimes you see generations
of preachers in a family
00:16:52.81\00:16:56.28
their great-great-great-great
grandfather was a preacher
00:16:56.31\00:16:59.75
and their father,
and their everybody
00:16:59.78\00:17:01.68
was a preacher in their
family, or a mechanic...
00:17:01.72\00:17:03.75
in our family... there
were generations of guys
00:17:03.79\00:17:07.19
my father went to jail...
and my father got shot...
00:17:07.22\00:17:10.89
and my father didn't
take care of his kids...
00:17:10.96\00:17:13.56
I went to jail... got shot...
didn't take care of my kids...
00:17:13.60\00:17:17.90
my son went to jail...
this is the third generation...
00:17:17.93\00:17:20.34
got shot... my son
got shot 17 times actually
00:17:20.37\00:17:24.51
and didn't take care of his kids
now my grandson got shot at 16
00:17:24.54\00:17:29.48
has two kids and is doing
00:17:29.51\00:17:32.55
"Life without the
possibility of parole"
00:17:32.58\00:17:34.38
so, if that ain't a generational
curse, I don't know what it is
00:17:34.42\00:17:38.02
and it was the
spirit of being criminals
00:17:38.05\00:17:40.82
we were raising
criminals instead of kids...
00:17:40.86\00:17:43.56
you know, it was like,
when my son, Johnny, was 12,
00:17:43.59\00:17:47.60
I told him, "You don't
have to go to School anymore,
00:17:47.66\00:17:49.43
why go to school... when
you're going to sell dope
00:17:49.46\00:17:53.03
that's what
you're going to do... "
00:17:53.07\00:17:54.44
that "school is for the
other kids... it's not for you"
00:17:54.47\00:17:59.17
the spirit of evil had
just taken over my whole family.
00:17:59.24\00:18:03.98
So how did God
deliver you from that?
00:18:04.01\00:18:08.82
Let's talk about how
your life was transformed...
00:18:08.85\00:18:12.35
How did you find Jesus?
00:18:12.39\00:18:13.89
I found Jesus... you know...
00:18:13.92\00:18:16.02
a number of
things that had happened
00:18:16.06\00:18:19.73
and I knew it was...
I knew that some reason
00:18:19.76\00:18:22.83
there was something
good in the world...
00:18:22.86\00:18:25.90
that kept saving me...
that kept hovering around me...
00:18:25.93\00:18:29.57
and bad things just
kept happening to me...
00:18:29.60\00:18:33.31
in my family...
people were being killed...
00:18:33.34\00:18:37.01
my best friends being killed and
finally I'm lying in a jail cell
00:18:37.05\00:18:43.12
and I had already went through
00:18:43.15\00:18:46.15
my 3-year-old son had
been beaten to death by a guy
00:18:46.19\00:18:49.66
that I never met...
that had run off with my wife
00:18:49.69\00:18:52.89
and so... and that was
part of the lifestyle I lived
00:18:52.93\00:18:56.06
you know, "Well, you can
lose another person... so what?"
00:18:56.13\00:18:59.73
but he killed my
son... I don't know why...
00:18:59.77\00:19:05.21
and then I got out of jail
and it didn't change at all...
00:19:05.24\00:19:09.58
and then I was in
jail another time...
00:19:09.64\00:19:12.05
and my oldest son was shot...
00:19:12.08\00:19:14.68
and they had shot him
so badly that he thought
00:19:14.72\00:19:18.89
his leg was still
on and it was gone...
00:19:18.92\00:19:21.49
and he thought I was
in the room with him...
00:19:21.56\00:19:24.63
and he was hallucinating
and the hospital called me
00:19:24.66\00:19:28.46
in jail... to talk to my son...
to tell him his leg was missing
00:19:28.50\00:19:32.27
and that's when it hit me...
00:19:32.30\00:19:34.10
that I was the most
horrible father in the world...
00:19:34.14\00:19:38.37
that I had left my
kids unprotected...
00:19:38.41\00:19:42.14
and that everything that I had
taught them, couldn't save them,
00:19:42.18\00:19:45.41
from the people in the
world that would devour them...
00:19:45.45\00:19:49.65
and I had been
accused of 50 felonies...
00:19:49.68\00:19:54.99
and was getting ready to go
to jail for a very long time...
00:19:55.02\00:19:59.23
and I just decided, you
know, that was enough...
00:19:59.26\00:20:01.90
I just couldn't do it
anymore, it was just...
00:20:01.93\00:20:04.57
something from my past...
00:20:04.60\00:20:07.40
that told me about God...
00:20:07.47\00:20:10.21
my grandmother, those
teachings that I'd learned
00:20:10.24\00:20:13.07
at 5 or 6 years of age...
00:20:13.11\00:20:14.54
filtered into that
room that I was in,
00:20:14.58\00:20:17.88
and I just got on my
knees and just started crying...
00:20:17.95\00:20:21.05
and I don't know...
00:20:21.08\00:20:22.42
I can't tell you
what I said to God...
00:20:22.45\00:20:24.85
because I don't remember...
00:20:24.89\00:20:26.22
but I know that
I knew that He came
00:20:26.25\00:20:28.99
in that period of time...
00:20:29.02\00:20:31.16
and that He told me
that it would be all right...
00:20:31.19\00:20:34.60
I don't know the words,
and I got off of that floor
00:20:34.63\00:20:38.07
I knew I was saved...
and I walked out of...
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.30
I ended up not going
to prison miraculously...
00:20:41.34\00:20:44.54
God, again... Yes...
00:20:44.57\00:20:46.74
and started helping people
00:20:46.78\00:20:49.78
helping other fathers that
had not fathered their kids
00:20:49.81\00:20:53.48
so God, you know, He...
even though I denied Him,
00:20:53.52\00:20:57.85
cursed Him, walked away from Him
and said that He didn't exist...
00:20:57.89\00:21:01.22
came... right when
I asked Him to come.
00:21:01.26\00:21:05.06
Oh! that is so, so beautiful...
because that's the God we serve
00:21:05.09\00:21:10.77
because when we ask Him...
when we reach out to Him...
00:21:10.83\00:21:14.74
when we tell Him,
00:21:14.77\00:21:16.10
"I can't deal with this
anymore, please, help me"
00:21:16.14\00:21:19.64
He hears that
prayer... Absolutely...
00:21:19.67\00:21:21.68
and I just wish other
people who don't know God
00:21:21.71\00:21:25.98
would just give Him a try...
because there's nothing...
00:21:26.01\00:21:29.05
nothing like that...
00:21:29.08\00:21:30.55
so once you got
up off your knees
00:21:30.62\00:21:32.82
you felt this sense of peace?
00:21:32.89\00:21:35.89
I knew that everything
was going to be all right...
00:21:35.92\00:21:39.53
I was getting
ready to be sentenced
00:21:39.56\00:21:42.53
for those 50 felonies...
and I went out and bought
00:21:42.56\00:21:45.93
a house... and
everybody thought I was crazy
00:21:45.97\00:21:47.57
for some reason... I just
felt that I wasn't going to jail
00:21:47.60\00:21:51.84
but it was impossible
that I would not go to jail
00:21:51.87\00:21:55.28
people were coming
to my court appearances
00:21:55.31\00:21:59.05
because they thought that
I would turn state's evidence
00:21:59.08\00:22:03.15
or become a snitch...
because I knew a lot of
00:22:03.18\00:22:06.52
a lot about a lot of things...
00:22:06.55\00:22:08.39
and that I could have
talked my way out of jail...
00:22:08.42\00:22:10.83
but I didn't do that...
00:22:10.86\00:22:12.19
I just threw myself at
the mercy of the Court because
00:22:12.23\00:22:14.50
I don't recommend it
for everybody... but...
00:22:14.56\00:22:17.70
I knew that God had me...
00:22:17.73\00:22:19.37
and that even if I
had gone to jail...
00:22:19.40\00:22:21.30
that I would be okay...
00:22:21.34\00:22:22.67
and the judge just
changed his mind...
00:22:22.70\00:22:24.84
and didn't send me to
jail... he was a Christian guy
00:22:24.87\00:22:27.94
and we are good
friends to this day...
00:22:27.98\00:22:29.71
20 years later,
we're still good friends...
00:22:29.74\00:22:31.71
and he said, you know,
00:22:31.78\00:22:33.75
"God just told me
to give you a shot... "
00:22:33.78\00:22:37.72
so he worked in my
behalf, he protected me...
00:22:37.75\00:22:41.62
you know... men don't
live to be 60 in my family
00:22:41.66\00:22:45.26
I'm 60 years old...
that doesn't happen...
00:22:45.29\00:22:48.50
a lot of great things
are happening in my life
00:22:48.53\00:22:51.07
and I know it is
God... I know it's God...
00:22:51.10\00:22:53.57
Amen... let's talk
about the Center for Fathering
00:22:53.60\00:22:56.67
and Urban Ventures...
you are the Vice President
00:22:56.71\00:22:59.74
at Urban
Ventures... tell us a bit about
00:22:59.77\00:23:03.01
what you're doing for fathers...
00:23:03.04\00:23:04.48
We work with
about a 1,000 men a year
00:23:04.51\00:23:06.78
most of them
coming out of prisons...
00:23:06.82\00:23:09.02
80 percent drug addiction
00:23:09.05\00:23:12.22
felonies in their past
00:23:12.25\00:23:15.39
that want to get back
into life to their kids...
00:23:15.42\00:23:18.33
but we realize... that
sending a broken father
00:23:18.39\00:23:21.23
back into the life of a
child is not the solution...
00:23:21.26\00:23:24.33
we work with the father,
with me, I went to treatment
00:23:24.37\00:23:27.24
because I was a drug addict,
I had to do some other things
00:23:27.27\00:23:31.71
to make sure that I
had steady employment
00:23:31.74\00:23:33.74
and things of that
nature before I decided to start
00:23:33.81\00:23:37.48
convincing my kids that
I had turned a new leaf...
00:23:37.51\00:23:41.15
and so, that's
what we do with men...
00:23:41.18\00:23:43.42
and we go out and find
them on the street corners
00:23:43.45\00:23:45.69
and we go into drug houses,
we go anywhere that men are
00:23:45.72\00:23:48.99
failing at... and
we reach out to them
00:23:49.02\00:23:51.59
and in my Community...
00:23:51.63\00:23:54.56
Jesus is known to be alive
00:23:54.60\00:23:57.50
and some of the guys
call me, "One of God's boys"
00:23:57.53\00:24:01.10
you know, and so I can go
into other gang territories
00:24:01.14\00:24:04.37
without fear...
because they know I'm on
00:24:04.41\00:24:06.84
something good... and
that good thing is God...
00:24:06.88\00:24:09.18
and somehow, in our Community...
00:24:09.21\00:24:11.61
everybody knows that God
is around... somewhere...
00:24:11.68\00:24:15.95
and they might not
know how to get to Him,
00:24:15.98\00:24:17.59
but they know He's around
00:24:17.62\00:24:19.12
and that's the tool
that we use to get people to
00:24:19.15\00:24:22.56
change their lives...
00:24:22.59\00:24:24.06
That is amazing...
00:24:24.09\00:24:26.49
so, how do these fathers
find out about your Program
00:24:26.53\00:24:30.90
are you kind of
marketing into the prisons
00:24:30.93\00:24:34.87
and letting them know,
00:24:34.90\00:24:36.24
"Hey, we have this
Center for Fathering...
00:24:36.27\00:24:38.31
when you come out" or
how are you marketing it?
00:24:38.34\00:24:41.18
Well, through a number of things
we have movies, we have books,
00:24:41.21\00:24:46.25
we do go into the
prisons, I speak a lot in jails,
00:24:46.28\00:24:50.82
I do a weekly TV
Show, in Minneapolis here
00:24:50.85\00:24:55.36
that's on Cable Network,
we send 4 guys out every day
00:24:55.39\00:24:59.89
for 6 hours...
to ride the buses,
00:24:59.93\00:25:02.90
and talk to guys about
The Center for Fathering...
00:25:02.93\00:25:05.97
and the Bus Company
allows us to do that...
00:25:06.00\00:25:10.27
they know that we are a
Faith-based Organization
00:25:10.31\00:25:12.87
they know that we're
connected to a Church
00:25:12.91\00:25:14.34
and they allow us to do that,
because when we're on the bus,
00:25:14.38\00:25:18.25
young African-American men,
especially, act differently...
00:25:18.28\00:25:22.08
you know, they don't
cuss, our Slogan is...
00:25:22.15\00:25:26.02
"No need to cuss or
fuss... you're on the peace bus"
00:25:26.05\00:25:29.49
and whatever bus we're on...
the young guys respect that
00:25:29.52\00:25:32.93
and a lot of
them know some of us
00:25:32.96\00:25:35.93
or have heard of us...
and they come to our meetings
00:25:35.96\00:25:40.27
like I said, a thousand
men this year came at least
00:25:40.30\00:25:44.54
let me see... a thousand
men came to at least 10 meetings
00:25:44.57\00:25:48.68
Wow! and tell us briefly
00:25:48.71\00:25:51.05
because we only
have about a minute left
00:25:51.08\00:25:53.01
what do they
learn in your classes?
00:25:53.08\00:25:56.55
It's all Character Development,
and teaching them how to
00:25:56.58\00:26:00.62
apply for a job and get a
job, and why a job is important
00:26:00.69\00:26:04.63
and why a good
life is important...
00:26:04.66\00:26:06.56
if the good character of
a man is what defines him
00:26:06.59\00:26:10.20
and so, and we
model that behavior
00:26:10.23\00:26:12.60
we make sure they have a mentor.
00:26:12.63\00:26:14.90
That is critical... a
mentor is critical because
00:26:14.94\00:26:20.44
how do they know what to do
if they don't see it modeled...
00:26:20.48\00:26:24.81
Absolutely... or if
they don't have someone
00:26:24.88\00:26:26.85
to just kind of walk them
through the whole process...
00:26:26.88\00:26:31.82
Amen... tell us, if you would,
00:26:31.85\00:26:35.12
in closing...
why it's so important
00:26:35.16\00:26:38.33
for fathers to get it together.
00:26:38.39\00:26:40.26
If a child does not
have that father in his life,
00:26:40.30\00:26:45.13
it's such a big leap
for him to understand
00:26:45.17\00:26:48.94
how much God
loves him... Hmmm...
00:26:48.97\00:26:51.41
and the father is the
first path to God, you know,
00:26:51.44\00:26:56.31
we teach our kids
how to be loved...
00:26:56.34\00:26:58.21
and how to be safe... and
so that God can gather them in
00:26:58.25\00:27:03.59
especially when we're not around
00:27:03.62\00:27:05.39
and so, man, we
serve an important role
00:27:05.42\00:27:08.86
God put is in our
kid's life for a reason...
00:27:08.89\00:27:11.23
and we need to own up to that.
00:27:11.26\00:27:12.73
Yes... for
sure... thank you so much
00:27:12.76\00:27:15.16
for being with us... I
can't thank you enough...
00:27:15.20\00:27:17.73
may God bless you as
you continue to serve him
00:27:17.77\00:27:21.17
and help other men to
know more about God...
00:27:21.20\00:27:24.51
who is the ultimate
parent... the ultimate father...
00:27:24.54\00:27:28.48
Thank you so much Brother
John for being with us today...
00:27:28.51\00:27:31.61
Amen... All I have to say is,
00:27:31.65\00:27:33.65
"Look at God... " look
at how He can take a life
00:27:33.68\00:27:36.28
that was headed for destruction
00:27:36.32\00:27:37.79
and turn it into
one headed for heaven...
00:27:37.82\00:27:39.92
thank you so much for
tuning in, join us next time
00:27:39.95\00:27:42.62
because it wouldn't be
the same without you...
00:27:42.69\00:27:45.33