Does your
marriage need a tune-up?
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Well, hang in there... my
guests have some scriptural
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insights to share with you...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
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Urban Report...
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Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
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My guests today are Drs.
Trevor and Edith Fraser...
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Co-founders and Co-directors of
Christian Family Life Seminars
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they are marriage
counselors and authors of
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"Saving Marriage by
Applying Biblical Wisdom"
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Welcome to Urban
Report Drs. Fraser...
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Thank you so
much... Thank you...
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Yeah.. So glad to be here...
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Oh, it's so great
to have you here...
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you know... your book,
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"Saving Marriage by
Applying Biblical Wisdom"
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is just... it has
such profound information
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in it... and I'm so thankful
that you've written this book...
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because we really
need it... tell us what...
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what prompted you
to write this book?
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Well we thought it was...
should be a labor of love...
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and it was from the background
that when we first started
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our pastorate in New York
City in an urban environment
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we realized that people
were really having problems
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with the rat race that often
accompanies a situation like
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any urban city...
and we really felt that
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people were just passing each
other in the night... really...
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Hmmm... really
struggling to maintain
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and manage... and it
was natural for families
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to feel that they have to do
that... in order to survive...
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in an urban environment...
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And one of the things
that happened also for us is
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someone came to
us and they said,
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"Well, you have
the perfect marriage"
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we have been... now
married for 45 years...
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but it wasn't
that many years then
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and we laughed because,
what is a perfect marriage?
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so, we thought we would look
at some Biblical examples...
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of people who were
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after God's own heart...
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and see if they
had "perfect marriages"
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and we found, in the Bible,
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They were not so perfect...
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no perfect marriages...
we didn't find any...
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Well, because there are
no perfect people, right?
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Absolutely... absolutely...
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And it's a work in
progress... a marriage...
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Yes... absolutely...
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So, we felt... how do we
help people see... that...
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that because we all are
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created as we are...
we were created perfect
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in the beginning... the
first couple... however,
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subsequently,
sin... created the problem
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and we now need to
learn how to resolve
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and to work with each other...
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so... how do we work with
each other as sinful creatures?
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and I think we need the tools
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to be able to
work with each other...
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because... people are
different and, you know,
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in the beginning... and
you address this in the book
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you talk about
the four stages...
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marriages have
stages and seasons...
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and you talk about those four,
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of togetherness, reality,
accommodation and transformation
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and I thought, "Wow! that
is so interesting because... "
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tell us... I want
you to explain that...
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elaborate on those
four stages for us...
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and why or what
happens in those four stages...
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Well, the couple we
used to talk about the stages
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of marriage was Adam and Eve...
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and when couples
start off together...
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they do everything together...
they can't imagine being apart
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but then, you know,
when we do these workshops...
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and we talk to people, they say,
"and then reality sets in... "
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and they have to go
out and get a job...
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and people begin
to differentiate...
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they begin to be focused on
their jobs or their careers...
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or children come in...
and so they're focused on that
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and so, those kinds of
things impact marriages...
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for example...
research has shown
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that marital happiness goes
down at the birth of a child...
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so you leave from
that "togetherness stage"
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to a stage where
you are differentiating
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and then you have to really work
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on learning to
accommodate each other
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and recognize those differences
and once you do that...
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then you can really have a
marriage that's transformed...
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but it's not just
automatic... in other words...
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it's not like in the
movies where people kiss
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and they live
happily ever after...
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that's not for real...
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But we really talk
about reality setting in
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in such a way... that
bills have to be paid...
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Hmmm... you have
to live... some place,
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you have to eat...
those are some of those things
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that you have to do... and
those often require a lot of
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work...
negotiation... there may be...
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as I was sharing
with my class yesterday...
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that there may be issues
where sometimes we look at
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you know, where
we used to think...
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we look at role changes...
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we look at roles now changed...
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where it may be... the
woman that's bringing in
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the larger salary... and
how do you negotiate that
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in a Society where we thought
the men should bring home
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that salary... or
the "bacon" as we say...
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but what we realize is
that those things change...
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so now we have to
make these adjustments
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and we do need to
make those adjustments
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in the urban context
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because sometimes it
changes drastically...
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Absolutely... let's talk
about that for a few minutes
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if you would, what happens when
the roles are kind of reversed
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and the woman makes more money
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than the man...
or the husband...
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the wife makes
more than the husband...
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how do they keep things
going where he maintains
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his sense of self-esteem...
and she remains to...
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and she remains
somewhat submissive...
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I know people
are going to send me
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e- mails or
whatever about that...
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but, I mean, where he
continues to feel as though
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he is the "Man"
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of the house...
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Well... number one...
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suppose the woman
is an Executive...
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that's her job... which is why
she's making lots of money...
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Right... she's not
the Executive at home
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Oh come on now...
she should be clear
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on her function and
role at home... and so,
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the Bible, in Ephesians 5...
which is where you were quoting
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it talks about wives submitting
but the verse before that...
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we love to quote that
one... Trevor and I do...
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because it says
that we should be
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equally
submissive to each other...
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Mutually submissive... Yes...
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so, when you get home...
you can't order everyone around
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including your spouse...
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just because you're
the Executive at work...
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and that would be true for
the man also... to be honest...
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I mean, sometimes, men
who are in the Military
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or who are policemen... who
are accustomed to, you know,
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giving orders... they come home
and they give everyone orders
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and the home is a separate
entity from your work...
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and it's almost like
when you come to that door
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you need to shed
some of those pieces...
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so that you can work out a
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collaborative
relationship in the home...
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and I think that's one
of the ways it's done...
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women come home
and they realize...
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"We work together at home... "
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"We are all in this together"
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and I think by the same
token, a man has to realize
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that in this new reality...
that we have to then know
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how to work with each other,
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we need to know how
to... as a matter-of-fact...
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when I share with my students
the fellows in the classroom,
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and by-the-way... the
relationship in college
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classrooms is
something like 60 to 40...
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60 percent women...
female and 40 percent male...
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and the young man said to me,
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"Well, I don't mind her working
and making the larger salary...
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I think we can work it out... "
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and I'm thinking...
"This is a new generation...
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they're working out of
different realities here... "
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I think in the past...
that would have been a struggle
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for the man to make that shift,
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I think they're making
that kind of shift because
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they now realize that
this is more of a partnership
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than anything else...
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I think that's a great point...
about the new reality...
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because I do notice
that there is a shift in
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the idea of roles
and that kind of thing...
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I mean... a lot of times...
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men are more
involved in raising the baby,
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nurturing the
babies and all that...
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and that's kind of a shift...
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which is a
welcome shift, I think...
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but I think that's
a really good point...
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and I should
mention that you are both...
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you're both
professors... at schools
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and so you are... not
only authors and lecturers
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but you're also... professors...
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at Oakwood and
Alabama A and M correct?
00:09:08.64\00:09:11.35
Well, I actually
recently retired so I'm actually
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at home... and it's wonderful
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so I do teach
one course at Oakwood
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and I'm no longer at
A and M... but I was...
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that's what's on the book...
you're absolutely correct...
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Yes, yes, yes, yes,
and that is so good...
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so you guys...
kind of stay plugged in
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to what's going on
with our young people and
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relationships... how
else, have you noticed that
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relationships have
changed... over the years...
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Well, you know, an interesting
thing has happened...
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we get a number of
young couples who come to us
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for Pre-engagement Counseling...
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because we do a
number of things,
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we do Pre-marriage
Counseling, we do counseling,
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we do workshops
with the seminars
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but they will come
to us and they'll say...
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"Well, we're not sure
we want to get engaged...
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so before we get engaged
we want pre-engagement...
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and that is the
new phenomenon...
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That is new because
they introduced it to us...
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they requested it...
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Ah, and so what's in that...
what's involved with that?
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We're taking them
through a process of looking at
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different roles...
looking at their uniqueness...
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looking at... and I
say... their cultural background
00:10:18.91\00:10:22.48
and I say that...
because I recognize that almost
00:10:22.55\00:10:26.05
all of us... come from a
different cultural background...
00:10:26.09\00:10:29.52
So are you finding that in
this, kind of, new reality...
00:10:29.56\00:10:32.69
that we're in now...
young couples are more open
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to receiving counseling...
than in previous years
00:10:37.53\00:10:42.27
or is it about the same?
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I think they realize
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that it is necessary because
of the complexity of the Society
00:10:45.87\00:10:51.58
they do not take it for granted
00:10:51.61\00:10:54.02
that they can maneuver
00:10:54.05\00:10:56.42
through this life... and
so they actually approach us
00:10:56.45\00:10:59.15
and say, you know, "I
want to know how I can
00:10:59.19\00:11:01.96
I can have some
pre-engagement counseling...
00:11:02.02\00:11:04.56
and when we first started
it... we had to then create
00:11:04.59\00:11:08.63
"Well, what would be different
00:11:08.66\00:11:10.03
from an engaged
couple... planning... "
00:11:10.07\00:11:13.07
and we had to think about...
and we have about 3 sessions
00:11:13.10\00:11:16.04
that we look at... and
there are some of the things
00:11:16.07\00:11:18.84
that we look at... for example,
00:11:18.87\00:11:21.08
we want them to look at their
uniqueness... who they are...
00:11:21.11\00:11:25.38
Another thing that we
think is really important is
00:11:25.41\00:11:28.68
what are some of
their core values...
00:11:28.72\00:11:30.45
so our premise is... you know...
people say this all the time
00:11:30.49\00:11:33.56
that opposites attract...
and we agree with that...
00:11:33.59\00:11:36.73
but you can't be
opposite in core values...
00:11:36.76\00:11:39.66
Hmmm... that is
such a good point...
00:11:39.69\00:11:42.93
that's where you're similar...
00:11:43.00\00:11:44.33
and so we get to
list their core values...
00:11:44.37\00:11:47.07
and then see them
together... and think about
00:11:47.10\00:11:49.77
what would be a
"mission statement"
00:11:49.84\00:11:51.44
that would reflect
this couple's life...
00:11:51.47\00:11:54.11
and so, those are the
kinds of things that we do...
00:11:54.14\00:11:56.64
in pre-engagement...
because we want them to know
00:11:56.68\00:12:00.55
"Are we really compatible?"
"Is this really going to work?"
00:12:00.58\00:12:04.35
and what is interesting,
Yvonne, when you've had people
00:12:04.39\00:12:07.89
who came with all intentions
of moving to the next stage...
00:12:07.92\00:12:11.36
Correct... and
after looking at their
00:12:11.39\00:12:14.56
differences... in
terms of their core values...
00:12:14.60\00:12:17.20
and after thinking about it,
00:12:17.23\00:12:18.57
because we want
them to process this
00:12:18.60\00:12:20.10
we want them to think about it,
00:12:20.14\00:12:21.47
they have changed
their minds... Correct...
00:12:21.50\00:12:23.47
and we've had all those who've
gone... the other direction
00:12:23.51\00:12:25.84
and say, "Well,
I think, I want...
00:12:25.87\00:12:27.48
I see now...
where I want to go...
00:12:27.51\00:12:28.94
in terms of the relationship. "
00:12:28.98\00:12:30.31
You know, that... to me,
identifying your core values...
00:12:30.35\00:12:35.15
that is key...
that is a critical piece
00:12:35.18\00:12:37.75
because if your values aren't...
if you're not on the same page,
00:12:37.79\00:12:41.99
with your core values...
that relationship is doomed...
00:12:42.02\00:12:46.13
Yes... You see,
what we think is...
00:12:46.16\00:12:48.10
is... okay... "I'm
rich... you're poor... "
00:12:48.13\00:12:52.73
that matters... "Class"
00:12:52.77\00:12:54.40
or we may think...
immigration status versus
00:12:54.44\00:12:57.97
not being an
immigrant which is "ethnicity"
00:12:58.01\00:13:01.11
or "race" all these
factors are important
00:13:01.14\00:13:04.15
and they do have some impact,
00:13:04.21\00:13:06.75
but if you have core
values that are similar...
00:13:06.78\00:13:09.98
if you believe that
"family" is important...
00:13:10.02\00:13:13.15
if you believe that
"working hard" is important...
00:13:13.19\00:13:16.16
or "working" period... yeah...
00:13:16.19\00:13:18.89
"honesty" is important...
if you have a code of ethics
00:13:18.93\00:13:23.33
that you operate
from... and they're similar...
00:13:23.40\00:13:27.24
then you're fine...
we're working with...
00:13:27.27\00:13:29.00
we're just about
completed pre-marital counseling
00:13:29.04\00:13:32.51
with a
couple... who he's Haitian
00:13:32.54\00:13:35.31
Hmmm... hmmm... and I
think she's Dominican...
00:13:35.38\00:13:41.68
Dominican... yeah... yeah...
in fact... that's one of their
00:13:41.72\00:13:44.82
challenges... when they
get with each other's family
00:13:44.85\00:13:47.86
that one's family speaks French
and the other one... Spanish...
00:13:47.89\00:13:51.39
so... you... but you know what?
00:13:51.43\00:13:53.26
their core
values... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:13:53.29\00:13:55.13
were on point...
00:13:55.20\00:13:56.83
and so, that's what
people don't realize...
00:13:56.87\00:14:00.27
that's what's really important
00:14:00.30\00:14:01.64
and that's what we
do... in Pre-engagement...
00:14:01.67\00:14:03.91
We worked with another
family another couple...
00:14:03.94\00:14:06.24
that's... he's Hispanic...
and she is Indian-American...
00:14:06.27\00:14:10.75
she has an
American... Native American
00:14:10.78\00:14:14.38
I'm talking
about Native American
00:14:14.42\00:14:15.75
and they had some different,
different views about things
00:14:15.78\00:14:20.86
but they had come to hold
00:14:20.89\00:14:22.52
a certain core value
00:14:22.56\00:14:24.03
that they
recognized as important...
00:14:24.06\00:14:26.16
for their family...
00:14:26.19\00:14:27.50
like certain things that
they don't think should be done
00:14:27.56\00:14:32.10
at home... they are
now... and really, they were not
00:14:32.13\00:14:36.71
they were of a different
spiritual persuasion...
00:14:36.74\00:14:39.81
and they have come
to bring those two...
00:14:39.84\00:14:42.91
values together... and
they've talked about it...
00:14:42.98\00:14:46.75
even in our counseling sessions,
I thought that's been phenomenal
00:14:46.78\00:14:50.45
we have watched them grow...
00:14:50.49\00:14:52.52
in that direction...
Correct... correct... yeah...
00:14:52.55\00:14:54.32
so, that's a powerful
thing that has happened...
00:14:54.39\00:14:57.43
Absolutely, absolutely...
so, what kinds of issues
00:14:57.46\00:15:00.60
do couples come to you
with... what are some of the
00:15:00.63\00:15:04.40
most common issues that they
come with... for counseling?
00:15:04.43\00:15:08.10
Well, as you might
expect... "communication"
00:15:08.17\00:15:14.01
Hmmm... hmmm...
couples either have
00:15:14.04\00:15:17.55
patterns of communication
that are ineffective...
00:15:17.58\00:15:23.02
or patterns of communication
that could be volatile
00:15:23.05\00:15:28.46
I mean, they argue all the time,
00:15:28.49\00:15:29.92
and so, what we have
to really look at is...
00:15:29.96\00:15:34.10
where do they learn these
patterns and then figure out
00:15:34.10\00:15:38.77
what works and
what doesn't work...
00:15:38.80\00:15:40.37
so I would think "communication"
is also an issue...
00:15:40.40\00:15:41.74
Well, you also have the issue of
00:15:41.77\00:15:43.14
knowing how
people have communicated
00:15:43.17\00:15:45.34
in their own
home... males, for example,
00:15:45.37\00:15:49.18
sometimes will find
are non-communicative
00:15:49.21\00:15:52.45
they don't
communicate much period...
00:15:52.48\00:15:55.65
and then you have
women who communicate...
00:15:55.68\00:15:59.29
and you can do it
reverse as well...
00:15:59.32\00:16:02.06
you can see that case as well...
but they are not communicating
00:16:02.12\00:16:06.03
so, their spouse or their pre...
00:16:06.06\00:16:09.80
the person that
they are dealing with
00:16:09.83\00:16:11.87
in terms of planning on
marrying they're trying to get
00:16:11.90\00:16:15.57
from them... certain ideas...
just knowing how they think...
00:16:15.60\00:16:20.41
how they developed
and what has happened...
00:16:20.44\00:16:22.98
so, they're struggling
with... "How to work this out...
00:16:23.04\00:16:26.38
and how do we
communicate with each other... "
00:16:26.41\00:16:28.85
and this is literally...
you're talking about...
00:16:28.88\00:16:30.65
as if it's communication...
there is no communication...
00:16:30.69\00:16:34.32
that's nothing
that's going between them...
00:16:34.36\00:16:35.86
and so, they have
to negotiate that...
00:16:35.89\00:16:37.69
they have to work that out...
00:16:37.73\00:16:39.06
And a lot of
couples have no concept
00:16:39.09\00:16:40.56
of how to have a
disagreement... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:16:40.60\00:16:44.60
either they don't...
they say, "Oh, we never argue"
00:16:44.63\00:16:48.64
well, that may not be a plus...
00:16:48.67\00:16:51.17
they're not
dealing with anything...
00:16:51.21\00:16:53.78
That's right...
what are some of the
00:16:53.81\00:16:56.31
tools or strategies
that you would recommend
00:16:56.34\00:17:00.45
in terms of conflict resolution,
00:17:00.48\00:17:02.68
"we're just at each
other all the time... "
00:17:02.72\00:17:06.09
arguing and arguing...
how would you unravel that
00:17:06.12\00:17:10.43
how would you
unpack that with the couple
00:17:10.46\00:17:12.49
and show them... how
to... which strategies...
00:17:12.53\00:17:15.30
what tools would they
use to resolve conflict...
00:17:15.33\00:17:18.10
You know, we almost
always recommend to them
00:17:18.13\00:17:22.50
"the spiritual option"
00:17:22.54\00:17:23.87
we say, first of all, you
need to pray for yourself...
00:17:23.91\00:17:26.88
Ah... start that
process with prayer
00:17:26.91\00:17:30.25
and we're not saying,
"Pray for her... or him"
00:17:30.28\00:17:34.15
but rather...
pray for yourselves...
00:17:34.18\00:17:36.32
start out... ask God
to give you the insight,
00:17:36.38\00:17:39.65
the direction... as you
move along in this process,
00:17:39.72\00:17:43.43
we do have a sort of
process that we switched on...
00:17:43.46\00:17:47.83
we say, first of all,
let's find a mutually acceptable
00:17:47.86\00:17:52.17
place and time...
00:17:52.20\00:17:53.54
And that's so important...
00:17:53.57\00:17:55.24
people often try
to have discussions
00:17:55.27\00:17:58.97
when it's not a good time...
someone comes in the door...
00:17:59.01\00:18:02.44
and you've been
simmering all this time
00:18:02.48\00:18:05.08
because they did... whatever...
00:18:05.11\00:18:06.45
and the minute they come in
the door... after a hard day...
00:18:06.48\00:18:08.85
you hit him...
you hit him with it...
00:18:08.88\00:18:10.72
that's not a good time...
00:18:10.75\00:18:13.19
So, timing is everything...
00:18:13.22\00:18:14.96
We were doing a
Couples Retreat somewhere
00:18:15.02\00:18:19.93
and we said,
"Give the person time...
00:18:19.96\00:18:24.73
don't say it when they
first come into the door...
00:18:24.77\00:18:27.67
be willing to
wait... " and one young lady
00:18:27.70\00:18:30.34
who was in the audience said,
00:18:30.37\00:18:31.77
"Well, how long
do we have to wait?"
00:18:31.81\00:18:33.21
I said, "You know, I'm not sure"
00:18:33.27\00:18:34.88
she said, "Because if I
have to wait more than 4 hours,
00:18:34.94\00:18:37.65
I'll just die... "
00:18:37.68\00:18:39.78
and, of course,
00:18:39.81\00:18:41.82
I did check with
some medical people...
00:18:41.88\00:18:43.55
and you actually can
wait longer than four hours...
00:18:43.59\00:18:46.09
She was right in the audience
00:18:46.15\00:18:47.49
so she did answer
this at this point...
00:18:47.52\00:18:49.22
so timing is important
a good place... I mean...
00:18:49.26\00:18:51.29
I don't think it's a good
idea to have a major argument
00:18:51.33\00:18:55.06
In a grocery store...
00:18:55.10\00:18:57.13
in a public forum... and
we use Esther with Xerxes
00:18:57.17\00:19:04.57
as an example of a woman
who knew that timing and place
00:19:04.61\00:19:08.48
was important...
think about it...
00:19:08.51\00:19:10.08
when she wanted to
share something with him...
00:19:10.11\00:19:12.51
she invited him to dinner...
she wined and dined him...
00:19:12.55\00:19:17.05
She already set the
context and the stage...
00:19:17.09\00:19:19.72
Absolutely... and
so, that's why we use
00:19:19.75\00:19:21.62
these Biblical couples...
and so, you have to have
00:19:21.66\00:19:25.03
timing... you have
to have the right place
00:19:25.06\00:19:27.76
and then... you need to
share how it feels for you
00:19:27.76\00:19:31.87
too often we share...
what we think the other person
00:19:31.90\00:19:35.94
has done wrong...
when it's so much better
00:19:36.00\00:19:38.24
if you share... how
it makes you feel...
00:19:38.27\00:19:41.21
That is such a good
point because so often
00:19:41.24\00:19:44.08
when you're involved in
discussing these things...
00:19:44.11\00:19:49.32
"well you did this
and you did that...
00:19:49.35\00:19:51.29
and you, you, you... " but
instead... if you say what's
00:19:51.32\00:19:54.99
"When this happened... it
made me feel this way... "
00:19:55.02\00:19:58.66
then you can't really invalidate
that as much as you...
00:19:58.69\00:20:02.53
you know... it
doesn't set the other person
00:20:02.56\00:20:05.13
on the defensive so much...
because it's your experience
00:20:05.20\00:20:08.84
of what
happened... Absolutely...
00:20:08.87\00:20:10.81
that is such a good point...
00:20:10.84\00:20:12.17
We categorize it as "I"
messages we put it in quotes
00:20:12.21\00:20:15.41
those are "I"
messages that we start out...
00:20:15.44\00:20:17.41
And we talk about speaking
the truth... but in love...
00:20:17.45\00:20:20.78
the Bible talks about that...
and then we suggest that couples
00:20:20.82\00:20:24.95
avoid some things like...
00:20:24.99\00:20:28.46
avoid
over-generalizations like...
00:20:28.49\00:20:30.33
"You never do this... "
"You always do this... "
00:20:30.36\00:20:33.09
well, of course,
00:20:33.13\00:20:34.46
as I remind the groups when
we are doing our workshops...
00:20:34.46\00:20:38.20
"You remember the 99
times they didn't do it...
00:20:38.23\00:20:41.70
they can remember the
one time they did... "
00:20:41.74\00:20:45.17
Right... so, of
course, they can get
00:20:45.21\00:20:47.14
defensive and say,
00:20:47.21\00:20:48.64
"Well, look, I did it...
you didn't even appreciate it"
00:20:48.68\00:20:50.58
so, if you avoid...
and we have even found that
00:20:50.61\00:20:54.48
in our marriage that
when either one of us
00:20:54.52\00:20:57.35
used that
"always" And we do argue...
00:20:57.39\00:20:59.79
And we do argue...
Yvonne: No, never...
00:20:59.82\00:21:02.19
Edith: Absolutely...
Trevor: You have to understand
00:21:02.22\00:21:05.69
when we need to talk
about... we work differently...
00:21:05.73\00:21:08.73
you know... as much as we
worked on the book together...
00:21:08.76\00:21:11.90
we found that there are
different times when we work...
00:21:11.97\00:21:15.07
so, that's natural...
00:21:15.10\00:21:16.44
and I think people
need to understand...
00:21:16.47\00:21:17.81
that there are some
natural things that happen
00:21:17.84\00:21:19.94
and we need to
work out some things...
00:21:19.97\00:21:21.71
you need to understand
what the other person is like...
00:21:21.74\00:21:23.81
my wife likes to
go to sleep early,
00:21:23.85\00:21:25.78
and I will stay up late...
00:21:25.81\00:21:28.32
we then work... I'll
say, "She's a rooster
00:21:28.35\00:21:31.19
and I'm just an
owl... " I'm an owl...
00:21:31.22\00:21:34.92
and so, we need to understand
that about each other...
00:21:34.96\00:21:38.39
we need to then know how we then
00:21:38.43\00:21:40.46
should work around those points
00:21:40.50\00:21:42.43
those are some of the
00:21:42.46\00:21:43.87
conflict resolution
things that we share...
00:21:43.90\00:21:45.67
I love that...
and I love the idea...
00:21:45.70\00:21:47.80
what you're saying...
00:21:47.84\00:21:50.41
and what I think I
hear you saying is that...
00:21:50.44\00:21:52.64
you accept the
person as they are...
00:21:52.67\00:21:56.31
and you make your adaptations,
00:21:56.34\00:21:58.51
each of you makes an adaption
00:21:58.55\00:22:00.75
or an
accommodation, if you will,
00:22:00.78\00:22:03.65
so that you can make
it work... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:22:03.69\00:22:07.86
otherwise, you can...
00:22:07.89\00:22:10.26
one of the things that you
mentioned in the book is how
00:22:10.29\00:22:12.76
people just grow
apart, when they're not really
00:22:12.79\00:22:16.16
spiritually intimate...
00:22:16.23\00:22:18.43
let's talk about
spiritual intimacy...
00:22:18.47\00:22:20.94
because I think...
that's a real important point
00:22:20.97\00:22:24.41
not enough couples, I
think, are really placing God
00:22:24.44\00:22:27.81
at the center of
their relationship...
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.21
let's talk a bit
about "spiritual intimacy"
00:22:30.25\00:22:32.75
Why is that important?
00:22:32.78\00:22:34.12
We start our first
counseling session...
00:22:34.15\00:22:37.22
when we start with
counseling... in terms of...
00:22:37.25\00:22:39.85
this is after we
pass the pre-engagement...
00:22:39.89\00:22:42.02
we even introduce
it in pre-engagement...
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.13
but we want to start
off in our first discussion
00:22:44.16\00:22:47.83
is bringing God as the
center, of the marriage...
00:22:47.86\00:22:51.20
starting... if you're
thinking about a relationship...
00:22:51.23\00:22:54.14
then you need to bring
God at the very beginning...
00:22:54.17\00:22:58.21
because God has given us
some ideas and some concepts
00:22:58.24\00:23:02.31
about... when He first
established Adam and Eve
00:23:02.34\00:23:05.95
one of the things that was
critical to this relationship
00:23:05.98\00:23:09.88
was that He would come
down and would be with them...
00:23:09.92\00:23:13.76
He was in their midst...
00:23:13.79\00:23:15.69
He expected...
as a matter-of-fact
00:23:15.72\00:23:17.06
the time when Adam and Eve
were running away from Him,
00:23:17.09\00:23:19.46
God was coming
to speak with them
00:23:19.49\00:23:23.16
to spend the time... and
so, it is in any relationship
00:23:23.20\00:23:27.37
this need for
God to be a part of
00:23:27.40\00:23:30.44
the first order, the first cause
you want to start with God...
00:23:30.47\00:23:34.21
so we believe that
couples should have their own
00:23:34.24\00:23:37.11
worship... we
often say that, you know,
00:23:37.15\00:23:39.51
you should have
individual worship...
00:23:39.55\00:23:41.82
but you also should
have couple worship...
00:23:41.85\00:23:44.85
and usually when I do
that... I share the fact that
00:23:44.89\00:23:48.06
on our honeymoon
night... my husband said to me
00:23:48.09\00:23:51.23
that there are two things
he wanted us to establish...
00:23:51.26\00:23:55.10
as foundational
concepts in our relationship...
00:23:55.16\00:23:59.17
and one was that we
would have worship everyday...
00:23:59.20\00:24:03.27
and I can honestly
say, he has been the
00:24:03.30\00:24:07.48
priest of our
household... and he assures us
00:24:07.51\00:24:11.38
that we have worship...
and, of course, I'll tell you
00:24:11.41\00:24:14.88
the other foundational piece...
00:24:14.92\00:24:16.25
and the other one was that
we would not go to bed angry
00:24:16.28\00:24:19.79
and I always jokingly said,
we did much better with the
00:24:19.85\00:24:23.56
first one than the
second... That's true...
00:24:23.59\00:24:27.50
Well, that
happens... how have you guys...
00:24:27.56\00:24:31.37
you've been married for
45 years what would you say,
00:24:31.40\00:24:35.47
and I love talking to
couples that have been married
00:24:35.50\00:24:39.54
for a long
time... and asking them,
00:24:39.57\00:24:41.64
"What do you think
00:24:41.68\00:24:43.01
is the secret to
having a successful marriage?"
00:24:43.04\00:24:47.58
Well, I think
that we initiated that
00:24:47.62\00:24:50.05
when we said that
God is the center...
00:24:50.09\00:24:52.45
I think that having God
be the primary personality
00:24:52.49\00:24:57.56
that we want to start and
to maintain this relationship
00:24:57.59\00:25:00.46
and the personality
that we go to when we need...
00:25:00.53\00:25:04.07
and all the time...
well, we start with that...
00:25:04.10\00:25:07.54
I mean, when we start in
the morning... we have...
00:25:07.57\00:25:09.47
we get up and we do have our
00:25:09.50\00:25:12.17
morning devotions at
worship... at worship...
00:25:12.21\00:25:14.81
we're not talking
about anything long,
00:25:14.84\00:25:17.21
but we start with prayer...
00:25:17.25\00:25:19.45
we start that way... and then...
00:25:19.51\00:25:21.15
I think people
really don't realize
00:25:21.18\00:25:26.09
that a marriage is hard work...
00:25:26.12\00:25:28.92
Hmmm... hmmm... and
you have to be committed
00:25:28.99\00:25:30.99
to the process 24/7 Hmmm...
00:25:31.03\00:25:34.10
and the other thing is that
we have worked... assiduously
00:25:34.13\00:25:37.53
on our marriage...
one thing that I do is
00:25:37.57\00:25:40.10
I'm always reading something...
I'm reading a book now
00:25:40.14\00:25:42.64
called "The Second
Half" it's talking about...
00:25:42.67\00:25:44.94
after you've been
married for 25 years...
00:25:44.97\00:25:47.58
that second half...
and so I'm reading that
00:25:47.61\00:25:50.15
so we're always working on it...
00:25:50.18\00:25:51.58
we go to "Couples
Retreats" for our marriage
00:25:51.61\00:25:54.52
at least once in a
year, sometimes more...
00:25:54.55\00:25:57.35
we do have "Date Nights"
where we spend time together
00:25:57.39\00:26:03.32
so, a marriage is something
00:26:03.36\00:26:05.36
that you never get to
the point where you say,
00:26:05.39\00:26:07.30
"Ah, we're happily married...
we don't need anything... "
00:26:07.36\00:26:10.63
no, we still have
to work on our marriage
00:26:10.67\00:26:12.50
we say that it is
a "work in progress"
00:26:12.53\00:26:14.30
and it gets better as
you make the investment...
00:26:14.34\00:26:18.51
And if we have
periods when we are too busy
00:26:18.57\00:26:22.71
that we don't
talk to each other...
00:26:22.74\00:26:24.25
and I find that we get testy
and there's more dissension
00:26:24.28\00:26:28.58
in the relationship...
because we need that
00:26:28.65\00:26:31.65
"together time" so,
we've got to carve time out
00:26:31.69\00:26:34.86
for this to work...
no relationship besides
00:26:34.89\00:26:37.96
that relationship...
which is "relationship with God"
00:26:37.99\00:26:40.06
is more important
than this relationship...
00:26:40.10\00:26:42.23
That's right... that's
right... that is beautiful...
00:26:42.26\00:26:45.60
Hold your book up for
us so our audience can see
00:26:45.63\00:26:48.94
this book... this
book is excellent...
00:26:48.97\00:26:51.74
How can they get it?
00:26:51.77\00:26:53.11
"Saving Marriage by
Applying Biblical Wisdom"
00:26:53.14\00:26:54.54
There are a number of
ways they can get it...
00:26:54.61\00:26:56.18
it's on
Amazon... and I believe...
00:26:56.21\00:27:01.95
we do our workshops...
and when we do our workshops,
00:27:01.98\00:27:06.86
we actually bring
them and sell them...
00:27:06.89\00:27:09.66
they can contact
us, we have copies...
00:27:09.69\00:27:12.39
so all of these are
options... That's great...
00:27:12.43\00:27:15.20
Thank you so much
for being with us...
00:27:15.23\00:27:17.23
Your book, "Saving Marriage
by Applying Biblical Wisdom"
00:27:17.27\00:27:21.00
is a wonderful book...
and I hope that our Viewers
00:27:21.04\00:27:24.31
will buy it... give
it as a gift to a couple
00:27:24.34\00:27:27.04
that you know...
it is a blessing...
00:27:27.08\00:27:28.68
thank you so much Drs. Fraser...
00:27:28.71\00:27:31.01
You're welcome...
We appreciate this...
00:27:31.05\00:27:32.55
God bless you... thank
you... Blessings to you...
00:27:32.58\00:27:34.52
Well, your marriage
may be in trouble...
00:27:34.58\00:27:38.35
so be sure to seek
God's wisdom in His Word...
00:27:38.39\00:27:41.89
Try to apply some of the
strategies that you heard today
00:27:41.92\00:27:45.39
to your situation...
and be of good courage...
00:27:45.43\00:27:48.63
God's got your back...
00:27:48.70\00:27:50.03
Well, that's the end of
our Program for today...
00:27:50.07\00:27:53.44
Thank you so
much for tuning in...
00:27:53.47\00:27:55.30
and join us next
time... because you know what?
00:27:55.34\00:27:58.01
It just wouldn't be
the same without you...
00:27:58.04\00:28:00.71