Stay tuned to meet a man
00:00:01.06\00:00:02.46
whose life fell apart
with drugs and prison.
00:00:02.50\00:00:05.23
Find out what God
has done in his life
00:00:05.27\00:00:07.37
and how he's using his
experiences to serve others.
00:00:07.40\00:00:10.91
My name is Yvonne Lewis
00:00:10.94\00:00:12.21
and you're
watching Urban Report.
00:00:12.24\00:00:14.24
Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
00:00:35.86\00:00:38.40
My guest today
is David Sanderson,
00:00:38.43\00:00:40.97
literature
evangelist and man with a story.
00:00:41.00\00:00:44.97
Welcome to Urban
Report, David. Thank you.
00:00:45.01\00:00:47.61
It's pleasure to be
here. Thank you for coming.
00:00:47.64\00:00:50.98
You have a very
interesting testimony
00:00:51.01\00:00:54.02
and I was told by Brian Hamilton
00:00:54.05\00:00:57.95
who met you and your wife
00:00:57.99\00:01:01.19
and both of you have
powerful testimonies.
00:01:01.22\00:01:04.69
She's also on
Urban Report this season
00:01:04.73\00:01:07.46
so I'm really happy
to have both of you.
00:01:07.50\00:01:10.57
Let's hear about your journey.
00:01:10.60\00:01:12.70
How-- What was
your childhood life?
00:01:12.73\00:01:14.47
Well, I was raised
00:01:14.50\00:01:15.97
as a Seventh-day
Adventist in a Christian home.
00:01:16.00\00:01:19.97
Two parents, a sister, a dog,
00:01:20.01\00:01:22.88
just an average
but Christian home.
00:01:22.91\00:01:25.91
I went all
through church schools,
00:01:25.95\00:01:28.48
through grade 1 through 8
00:01:28.52\00:01:30.95
and then went
to my freshman year
00:01:30.99\00:01:33.32
to a Christian
academy, Thunderbird academy
00:01:33.36\00:01:36.26
and then I was asked
00:01:36.29\00:01:37.53
not to come back
to Thunderbird academy
00:01:37.56\00:01:39.86
because my lifestyle had already
00:01:39.89\00:01:42.53
taken a turn for the worse
00:01:42.56\00:01:44.70
and... but I had--
00:01:44.73\00:01:46.00
I was involved
before that happened.
00:01:46.03\00:01:47.57
I was involved with pathfinders,
00:01:47.60\00:01:48.80
my parents are active
in the church and just...
00:01:48.84\00:01:51.14
it is really a
normal Christian family
00:01:51.17\00:01:54.31
and you wouldn't
think where I went,
00:01:54.34\00:01:56.78
I would come out
of that but I did.
00:01:56.81\00:01:58.48
So what happened?
00:01:58.51\00:02:00.15
Well, I have a really,
I know now as I look back,
00:02:00.18\00:02:03.92
I have a really
addictive personality
00:02:03.95\00:02:06.12
and I can
remember when I was little,
00:02:06.15\00:02:07.72
my mom would pass out a
piece of candy or something
00:02:07.76\00:02:10.96
and she give me one
but one was never enough
00:02:10.99\00:02:14.93
and so I would go in
00:02:14.96\00:02:16.33
and she always had candy
hidden all over the house.
00:02:16.36\00:02:18.57
And I'd go start going through
00:02:18.60\00:02:20.24
her drawers and
stuff and finding candy
00:02:20.27\00:02:22.70
and then I also
knew she had change
00:02:22.74\00:02:24.44
in her purse because of church.
00:02:24.47\00:02:26.64
So I would start
going in her purse
00:02:26.68\00:02:28.51
and stealing the change,
00:02:28.54\00:02:31.38
run down to the
store and buy candy
00:02:31.41\00:02:33.62
and then eat it up
real quick and come home.
00:02:33.65\00:02:35.68
And I didn't
realize what that was
00:02:35.72\00:02:37.52
but I do now that it was
just, I can never get enough,
00:02:37.55\00:02:39.99
it was my addictive personality.
00:02:40.02\00:02:42.62
So then after that,
and my mother was a nurse
00:02:42.66\00:02:45.73
and we had, and at that time,
00:02:45.76\00:02:49.76
the doctor would do house
calls and if he had to call her,
00:02:49.80\00:02:52.63
she would have
medication at the house.
00:02:52.67\00:02:54.47
So at a real young
age, I was 12 at the time,
00:02:54.50\00:02:57.71
and I started hanging
out with other Christian kids
00:02:57.74\00:03:01.78
that were about four years older
00:03:01.81\00:03:03.14
but I started taking
prescription pain pills
00:03:03.18\00:03:05.88
and just to try to
keep up with these guys
00:03:05.91\00:03:09.45
and show them that I was cool
00:03:09.48\00:03:11.19
and, you know, I
could hang with them
00:03:11.22\00:03:13.42
and at that time I had gotten--
00:03:13.46\00:03:16.56
I'd been
arrested for shoplifting
00:03:16.59\00:03:18.66
at the age of 12.
00:03:18.69\00:03:19.69
So at 12 years, my life really
00:03:19.73\00:03:22.10
it took a dive for the downhill.
00:03:22.13\00:03:24.13
So it took a dive when you--
00:03:24.17\00:03:29.14
were you hanging
with the wrong kids?
00:03:29.17\00:03:32.04
What actually kind of
pulled you into that--
00:03:32.07\00:03:34.94
into that lifestyle, you think?
00:03:34.98\00:03:36.58
Well, I don't want to put blame
on the kids, on the older kids,
00:03:36.61\00:03:40.05
they were just
being the older kids
00:03:40.08\00:03:42.42
that they were, I was
just trying to impress them
00:03:42.45\00:03:45.09
so I could hang with
them and to this day,
00:03:45.12\00:03:48.29
I don't blame them for anything
because it was my choices.
00:03:48.32\00:03:51.46
Bottom line, it was
the choices that I made
00:03:51.49\00:03:53.96
that ended me up
the road that I chose.
00:03:54.00\00:03:57.37
But also, you
know, by that time,
00:03:57.40\00:03:59.87
by the time I was 12, I
knew that stealing was wrong.
00:03:59.90\00:04:03.61
I'd actually even stolen
some money out of our church.
00:04:03.64\00:04:07.18
I used to go mow the
yards and take care of the yards
00:04:07.21\00:04:09.44
and there was money inside,
00:04:09.48\00:04:11.61
some tithe
money that was inside.
00:04:11.65\00:04:14.38
And I had taken that and
went and bought candy with it.
00:04:14.42\00:04:17.22
And... so really
I started stealing
00:04:17.25\00:04:20.76
and that really set
me out looking for things
00:04:20.79\00:04:25.16
that I could just,
you know, I didn't--
00:04:25.19\00:04:27.50
it was all about
me and it wasn't,
00:04:27.56\00:04:29.56
I didn't want to have to work.
00:04:29.60\00:04:31.10
I didn't like to
earn money for it.
00:04:31.13\00:04:32.73
It was just, if I saw
something I wanted it and...
00:04:32.77\00:04:35.77
so at 12, drugs, I
was already doing drugs,
00:04:38.71\00:04:41.98
I started
drinking, I started smoking
00:04:42.01\00:04:45.21
and that's when the academy
asked me not to come back
00:04:45.25\00:04:48.12
because I was brining
drugs, alcohol onto the campus.
00:04:48.15\00:04:52.45
They had a dormitory there
and we were getting the kids
00:04:52.49\00:04:55.79
that were in the
dormitory high and drunk
00:04:55.82\00:04:58.76
and so they asked me
not to come back but...
00:04:58.79\00:05:00.83
How did your
folks deal with this?
00:05:03.73\00:05:06.47
Because you came
from a two parent home,
00:05:06.50\00:05:09.37
how was your dad dealing
with you with these issues?
00:05:09.40\00:05:13.61
Well, my dad was a farmer
00:05:13.64\00:05:15.74
and he was gone
a lot of the times
00:05:15.78\00:05:18.31
and I would usually
always see him late at night
00:05:18.35\00:05:22.15
when I was going
to bed or on Sabbaths
00:05:22.18\00:05:24.99
'cause we always
went to church together.
00:05:25.02\00:05:26.99
So I guess, we're what they
would call a latchkey child,
00:05:27.02\00:05:31.09
my mom wouldn't get
off work till 5 o'clock
00:05:31.13\00:05:33.19
so I would be home
with my sister alone
00:05:33.23\00:05:35.63
and I resented that
because she was trying to,
00:05:35.66\00:05:37.70
you know, tell
me what I had to do
00:05:37.73\00:05:39.00
and I didn't want her
telling me what to do.
00:05:39.03\00:05:40.70
This is your older sister?
00:05:40.74\00:05:41.77
My older sister,
yeah, bless her heart.
00:05:41.80\00:05:43.94
And so that was a problem
and dad wasn't really around,
00:05:43.97\00:05:48.68
and really, my
parents were in denial
00:05:48.71\00:05:50.98
because I'm 56 so this was going
00:05:51.01\00:05:53.38
on around, '70, '71, '72,
00:05:53.42\00:05:57.39
or actually '71 through '73
00:05:57.42\00:05:59.89
and I think a lot
of Adventist parents
00:05:59.92\00:06:02.69
weren't really
aware of the drug problem.
00:06:02.72\00:06:05.46
They knew it was
going on in the world
00:06:05.49\00:06:06.90
but they didn't think it
was happening in their church,
00:06:06.93\00:06:09.86
especially with their
children and it really was.
00:06:09.90\00:06:13.44
It was out of hand.
00:06:13.47\00:06:15.10
It really is important
for parents to stay connected
00:06:15.14\00:06:20.21
and sometimes it's hard
because when you're busy,
00:06:20.24\00:06:23.04
if you're a single parent,
00:06:23.08\00:06:25.15
you're trying to
do a job or two jobs
00:06:25.18\00:06:28.48
and take care of your
children and if you're married,
00:06:28.52\00:06:31.89
but, you know, the father is--
00:06:31.92\00:06:34.06
the husband is away
or out of the light,
00:06:34.09\00:06:36.52
it's hard to really
connect but you have to,
00:06:36.56\00:06:40.30
because your kids will get
away from you if you don't.
00:06:40.33\00:06:43.50
Yes.
00:06:43.53\00:06:44.50
With all the things
that are in society now
00:06:44.53\00:06:47.54
to pull them away from God,
00:06:47.57\00:06:50.07
if we don't stay
connected to our kids
00:06:50.11\00:06:52.87
and stay connected to God,
00:06:52.91\00:06:54.88
we are really in trouble
00:06:54.91\00:06:56.24
and that's kind of what
happened in your home then.
00:06:56.28\00:06:58.51
Yes.
00:06:58.55\00:06:59.61
Your parents really
were not-- Doing good things.
00:06:59.65\00:07:02.72
Right.
00:07:02.75\00:07:03.82
But they were busy doing
the things they were doing.
00:07:03.85\00:07:06.65
Right, and not knowing
that their child was in trouble.
00:07:06.69\00:07:10.29
Right. Did you get
caught shoplifting?
00:07:10.33\00:07:13.16
Yes, I got caught
00:07:13.19\00:07:14.20
by the police
department when I was 12
00:07:14.23\00:07:16.43
and then I had gotten
caught another time my dad
00:07:16.46\00:07:19.63
'cause I came home and
all these cassette tapes
00:07:19.67\00:07:22.14
and I didn't like to
admit, I said I just took them,
00:07:22.17\00:07:25.01
then he made me, took me
back to the store and in person,
00:07:25.04\00:07:28.81
give these back and apologize
00:07:28.84\00:07:30.38
and that just-- that crushed me.
00:07:30.41\00:07:32.08
You would think that
that would be enough to where
00:07:32.11\00:07:34.08
I wouldn't
continue that lifestyle
00:07:34.12\00:07:35.98
but it didn't, it wasn't enough.
00:07:36.02\00:07:38.25
It just made me resent
my father more at that time.
00:07:38.29\00:07:41.89
And but the drug
abuse just escalated,
00:07:41.92\00:07:47.03
you know, you might
start out just drinking
00:07:47.10\00:07:48.73
or you might start out
just doing a little bit
00:07:48.76\00:07:50.13
of pain pills but
by the time I was 16,
00:07:50.17\00:07:53.50
I was already shooting cocaine
and doing that quite often,
00:07:53.54\00:07:58.81
doing heroin at that
time and any kind of drug
00:07:58.84\00:08:01.31
that I could get my hands on,
00:08:01.34\00:08:02.38
I was already
doing any kind of drug
00:08:02.41\00:08:04.55
that I could get a hold of.
00:08:04.58\00:08:05.98
And still living at home?
00:08:06.01\00:08:07.38
And still living at
home. Did the parents know?
00:08:07.42\00:08:08.48
I had run away a couple of times
00:08:08.52\00:08:10.35
and but, you
know, if they were to--
00:08:10.39\00:08:12.59
if my parents were to
ask me, "What's going on?
00:08:12.62\00:08:14.42
What are you doing?"
00:08:14.46\00:08:15.49
I was resentful, I was hateful,
00:08:15.52\00:08:17.03
I didn't want to talk to them
00:08:17.06\00:08:18.26
and if they did ever
accuse me of something,
00:08:18.29\00:08:21.00
of course, I would lie and
say, you know, "That's not me."
00:08:21.03\00:08:24.53
They actually
found some syringes
00:08:24.57\00:08:26.03
once in the back
one of my vehicles
00:08:26.07\00:08:28.24
and I said no and I
blamed it off on my friend,
00:08:28.27\00:08:31.07
but, you know, in
reality, it was mine.
00:08:31.11\00:08:33.41
But... they may have known
00:08:33.44\00:08:36.14
maybe I don't think
they wanted to accept
00:08:36.18\00:08:38.78
that what was going
'cause my sister was perfect,
00:08:38.81\00:08:41.75
staying in school,
staying in Adventist school,
00:08:41.78\00:08:44.02
was going to Adventist college
00:08:44.05\00:08:44.99
and then here was me
and a total opposite.
00:08:45.02\00:08:49.89
The rebellious
one. Very rebellious.
00:08:49.92\00:08:52.19
Yeah, yeah. Very rebellious.
00:08:52.23\00:08:53.76
And that, and that happens
with, you know, siblings,
00:08:53.80\00:08:57.33
one can be like the
goodie-goodie kind of kid
00:08:57.37\00:09:00.77
and the other one can
be a bit more adventurous.
00:09:00.80\00:09:03.61
You were taking that to
a whole new place though.
00:09:03.64\00:09:06.57
Interest would be putting
it lightly, very lightly.
00:09:06.61\00:09:09.48
Because if you were 16,
00:09:09.51\00:09:11.41
and really caught up
out there in hard drugs.
00:09:11.45\00:09:14.62
Yeah. How did the spiral...
00:09:14.65\00:09:19.42
how did the
spiral take hold of you?
00:09:19.45\00:09:21.79
You started doing little things
00:09:21.82\00:09:24.39
but did you start
doing it more often,
00:09:24.43\00:09:28.36
were you hanging out
with the wrong people?
00:09:28.40\00:09:31.00
And I'm not blaming the people
00:09:31.03\00:09:32.43
but how did that
spiral kind of just take hold?
00:09:32.47\00:09:36.17
Well, with
drugs, the more you do,
00:09:36.20\00:09:40.04
the more shame,
the more guilt you have
00:09:40.08\00:09:42.38
because you know
right from wrong.
00:09:42.41\00:09:44.48
The more crime you
do because not only
00:09:44.51\00:09:46.68
I was using but
I was doing crime.
00:09:46.72\00:09:48.58
Also, I had already had a DUI
00:09:48.62\00:09:50.45
by the time I was 16.
00:09:50.49\00:09:52.05
I had already had
a grand theft auto,
00:09:52.09\00:09:54.19
I'd had a burglary charge,
00:09:54.22\00:09:56.29
I mean, it just,
it just escalated
00:09:56.32\00:09:58.16
but the high
medicated took the reality away
00:09:58.19\00:10:03.00
and as long as
I could stay high,
00:10:03.03\00:10:04.43
I didn't have to
deal with reality
00:10:04.47\00:10:06.13
and I couldn't get over--
00:10:06.17\00:10:08.34
Normally, now, I'm
kind of a shy person,
00:10:08.37\00:10:11.94
with-- my wife is
a social butterfly
00:10:11.97\00:10:13.91
but I'm more like a social wasp.
00:10:13.94\00:10:16.68
I would rather
just beat to myself
00:10:16.71\00:10:18.85
but when I started getting high,
00:10:18.88\00:10:20.22
I could actually talk to people,
00:10:20.25\00:10:21.98
I could talk to girls and
not feel inhibited by them.
00:10:22.02\00:10:26.39
And it started out as fun.
00:10:26.42\00:10:28.76
It always starts out as
fun or just an occasional user.
00:10:28.79\00:10:32.99
But the next
thing, I couldn't stop.
00:10:33.03\00:10:34.93
I was totally out of control.
There was no stopping me.
00:10:34.96\00:10:38.23
Yeah and again, that's
part of Satan's plan for you.
00:10:38.27\00:10:42.17
Absolutely.
00:10:42.20\00:10:43.34
To just give you a little
bit and it's really fun at first
00:10:43.37\00:10:46.57
and it's just--
and you can control it.
00:10:46.61\00:10:48.71
"I got this."
00:10:48.74\00:10:49.68
Right, and then,
little by little by little,
00:10:49.71\00:10:52.85
he just sucks you in
and before you know it,
00:10:52.88\00:10:55.72
you're so out of control
that you end up in prison.
00:10:55.75\00:10:59.22
Absolutely.
00:10:59.25\00:11:00.29
And that's what happened to you.
00:11:00.32\00:11:02.06
And it's funny because...
when I was a teenager,
00:11:02.09\00:11:05.39
that's when I really
started getting into trouble.
00:11:05.43\00:11:06.80
I didn't actually go
to prison till I was 40.
00:11:06.83\00:11:09.50
When I was 21, I got married
to another girl, to a girl
00:11:09.53\00:11:13.03
and we were both
into drugs and alcohol
00:11:13.07\00:11:15.30
but for some reason,
I thought that might,
00:11:15.34\00:11:18.37
I'd be able to settle
down and that'll change.
00:11:18.41\00:11:20.98
But two weeks after I married,
I had to leave the state
00:11:21.01\00:11:23.35
because the police
were looking for me
00:11:23.38\00:11:25.18
because I was
actually-- I had sold some stuff
00:11:25.21\00:11:27.58
that didn't belong to me
00:11:27.62\00:11:28.88
and so we moved to another state
00:11:28.92\00:11:31.52
and the drug
abuse and alcoholism,
00:11:31.55\00:11:35.72
it continued and
continued and continued.
00:11:35.76\00:11:38.53
Until where we finally
both hit a bottom up there,
00:11:38.56\00:11:40.63
I got very
abusive to her, physically
00:11:40.66\00:11:43.83
and she had threatened to leave
00:11:43.87\00:11:46.03
and take our
daughter at that time.
00:11:46.07\00:11:47.84
Oh, was she a
drug abuser as well?
00:11:47.87\00:11:49.47
Yes, yeah, at the same time.
00:11:49.50\00:11:51.51
And so we both
got into the church
00:11:51.54\00:11:54.51
and we actually got into a
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:11:54.54\00:11:58.05
in this small little town
and for a couple three years,
00:11:58.08\00:12:02.22
we were actually
in the church longer
00:12:02.25\00:12:03.45
but for a couple or three years,
00:12:03.49\00:12:04.65
I was actually
clean off the drugs,
00:12:04.69\00:12:07.32
was an elder, was
helping out doing sermons
00:12:07.36\00:12:09.69
and carrying on a
normal life, so to speak,
00:12:09.72\00:12:14.10
and then, I hurt
myself going down some stairs.
00:12:14.10\00:12:17.90
I don't remember
exactly what happened
00:12:17.93\00:12:19.30
but I was issued from the doctor
00:12:19.33\00:12:21.30
prescription pain
pills and I took those
00:12:21.34\00:12:24.01
and I picked up right
where I'd left off and...
00:12:24.04\00:12:27.14
Wow.
00:12:27.18\00:12:28.24
Next thing I know, we
had moved out of the state,
00:12:28.28\00:12:33.38
moved back to my parents' house
00:12:33.42\00:12:35.15
'cause, you know, we'd
lost our house, I'd lost my job
00:12:35.18\00:12:39.29
and now my wife
did take the kids
00:12:39.32\00:12:43.29
and we had two kids at that time
00:12:43.32\00:12:46.06
and divorced me,
next thing you know,
00:12:46.09\00:12:48.23
I'm now in my 30s, I'm
cooking methamphetamine.
00:12:48.26\00:12:52.50
I was
manufacturing methamphetamine
00:12:52.53\00:12:54.67
and that's the road that
got me going towards prison.
00:12:54.70\00:12:57.74
Praise God.
00:12:57.77\00:13:00.34
And you know, it's
an interesting thing
00:13:00.38\00:13:02.18
that you would say praise God
00:13:02.21\00:13:03.58
and we'll explore
why you said that.
00:13:03.61\00:13:05.65
But let's go back for a
second, so you were married,
00:13:05.68\00:13:10.32
you had children but the drugs
00:13:10.35\00:13:13.99
and the alcohol
just had such control
00:13:14.02\00:13:16.19
that you lost everything.
00:13:16.22\00:13:17.83
Mm-hmm. Including your family.
00:13:17.86\00:13:20.23
Where were you spiritually then,
00:13:20.26\00:13:22.83
when you lost everything?
00:13:22.86\00:13:23.90
Did you decide, "Man, I
need God at this point."?
00:13:23.93\00:13:27.57
Or were you
saying, "I got this."?
00:13:27.60\00:13:30.87
Well, in reality I
never lost anything.
00:13:30.91\00:13:35.18
I traded my family.
00:13:35.21\00:13:37.68
I traded our
home, I traded a career,
00:13:37.71\00:13:39.91
I traded my children for drugs.
00:13:39.95\00:13:44.02
We'll talk about
that a little bit later
00:13:44.05\00:13:45.49
but when we were
in the county jails,
00:13:45.52\00:13:47.56
the guys were always saying,
00:13:47.59\00:13:48.62
you know, I lost
this, I lost that.
00:13:48.66\00:13:51.03
No, we actually made
a decision and we traded
00:13:51.06\00:13:54.76
whatever it was that we
wanted for our families.
00:13:54.83\00:13:57.60
And... but at that time,
00:13:57.63\00:13:59.80
I knew of God
even having sermons,
00:13:59.83\00:14:02.80
even raised at
in a Christian home
00:14:02.84\00:14:04.77
and having Bible
lessons every week,
00:14:04.81\00:14:07.14
I knew of God but I didn't
really personally know God yet.
00:14:07.18\00:14:10.38
And in AA, they have a saying,
00:14:10.41\00:14:14.08
you know, you white knuckling it
00:14:14.12\00:14:15.58
so those years that I
wasn't using, I was night--
00:14:15.62\00:14:17.95
white knuckling it,
trying to stay sober
00:14:17.99\00:14:21.29
but it didn't take much
to push me over the edge.
00:14:21.32\00:14:23.89
Yeah, those painkillers... Yeah.
00:14:23.93\00:14:26.63
For that pain that just
got you back started again?
00:14:26.66\00:14:30.07
Yeah, it just brought
everything right back.
00:14:30.10\00:14:32.10
Within days, I was right
where I was when I left off.
00:14:32.13\00:14:35.50
So what happened
after that? What did you do?
00:14:35.54\00:14:38.74
Well, when we
came back to Arizona
00:14:38.77\00:14:40.88
and then she
actually had divorced me
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.51
and taken the kids,
then that's when I started,
00:14:42.54\00:14:44.61
I hooked up with some people
00:14:44.65\00:14:45.78
and started
cooking methamphetamine
00:14:45.81\00:14:47.82
and my mom, bless her heart,
00:14:47.85\00:14:51.05
had been praying
for me for 28 years
00:14:51.09\00:14:53.46
and I knew the Holy
Spirit was working on me
00:14:53.49\00:14:58.99
because I would go
out with my friends
00:14:59.03\00:15:00.96
and I was
cooking methamphetamine,
00:15:00.96\00:15:02.26
we had a cooking
operation in Arizona
00:15:02.30\00:15:05.07
and I was cooking it
in different locations
00:15:05.10\00:15:07.00
and I thought I was invincible,
I would actually cook
00:15:07.04\00:15:09.00
right across from
the sheriffs department--
00:15:09.04\00:15:11.01
Now for people who don't know
00:15:11.04\00:15:12.17
what cooking
means, explain that.
00:15:12.21\00:15:15.18
I was actually making speed
through a chemical process,
00:15:15.21\00:15:19.21
you would use
flasks and heat and flames
00:15:19.25\00:15:21.68
and mix these
chemicals together,
00:15:21.72\00:15:24.82
very dangerous operation,
very, just the chemicals,
00:15:24.85\00:15:27.46
the fumes are just very deadly.
00:15:27.49\00:15:30.46
I know I did it at a
friend of mine's house
00:15:30.49\00:15:33.09
and caught the house on fire.
00:15:33.13\00:15:35.46
I did that a couple of times
00:15:35.50\00:15:36.93
but 'cause you're
just up for so many days,
00:15:36.97\00:15:40.40
it's not like you
just you do alcohol,
00:15:40.44\00:15:42.50
you drink, you get
drunk then you pass out
00:15:42.54\00:15:44.27
but speed, you can stay
up for several days at a time
00:15:44.31\00:15:47.28
but you think you've got
this but you really don't.
00:15:47.31\00:15:50.38
You really have nothing. Yeah.
00:15:50.41\00:15:51.91
And so yeah, I was
manufacturing speed
00:15:51.95\00:15:56.38
and they call it
glass at that time.
00:15:56.42\00:15:58.65
So you went--
were you using it first
00:15:58.69\00:16:01.02
and then you started making it?
00:16:01.06\00:16:02.39
I was my best customer, yeah.
00:16:02.42\00:16:05.29
That was a
problem, I always thought
00:16:05.33\00:16:06.83
I could make money at it
00:16:06.86\00:16:07.96
but I couldn't, I
was really just making it
00:16:07.96\00:16:10.17
so I could stay
high all the time.
00:16:10.20\00:16:12.97
And actually, and I would
make it for those around me
00:16:13.00\00:16:15.54
because as they would praise me,
00:16:15.57\00:16:17.71
as I would give them
dope, they would say,
00:16:17.74\00:16:19.84
"Oh, you are the nicest guy."
00:16:19.87\00:16:21.48
It made me feel good but I
knew what I was really like.
00:16:21.51\00:16:24.78
You know, I knew what
was really going on inside.
00:16:24.81\00:16:27.12
And it got to the point
00:16:27.15\00:16:29.28
where the Holy Spirit
was working on me so bad
00:16:29.32\00:16:31.72
that it's like the good
angel and the bad angel,
00:16:31.75\00:16:35.76
once over here and
your head's just going
00:16:35.79\00:16:37.33
back and forth till it
was just driving me nuts,
00:16:37.36\00:16:39.19
I couldn't get high anymore
as much as I tried to use.
00:16:39.23\00:16:42.93
Everybody else
would be just gone
00:16:42.96\00:16:45.43
and I couldn't get high,
00:16:45.47\00:16:47.07
I knew
something was going wrong.
00:16:47.10\00:16:49.34
So God really was stepping
in and blocking that high.
00:16:49.37\00:16:52.91
He did, He did.
He stepped right in.
00:16:52.94\00:16:54.84
Wow, so how did
you end up in prison?
00:16:54.88\00:16:58.38
Well, I went out one day
00:16:58.41\00:17:00.78
and I just ran
out into the woods
00:17:00.82\00:17:02.92
and I cried out to God
00:17:02.95\00:17:04.79
and I just talked to
him like He was right there.
00:17:04.82\00:17:07.32
I didn't know
that I was doing it
00:17:07.36\00:17:09.06
but I was
crying and I just said,
00:17:09.09\00:17:10.76
"I can't take this anymore"
and I said, "I'm so thirsty."
00:17:10.79\00:17:14.93
And I went around a corner
and here was a natural spring
00:17:14.93\00:17:17.73
in a culvert so I took a drink
00:17:17.77\00:17:19.67
and I knew, I didn't really
understand it at that time
00:17:19.70\00:17:23.07
but about a week
later, they raided our house
00:17:23.10\00:17:25.54
and I was arrested and
that's how I ended up in prison.
00:17:25.57\00:17:29.01
Wow. Yeah, so that was His help.
00:17:29.04\00:17:32.98
You might not have
felt it at that point,
00:17:33.01\00:17:35.15
you might not have
realized it at that point
00:17:35.18\00:17:37.22
that was His
hope and He was really
00:17:37.25\00:17:39.15
sparing you from,
probably from death.
00:17:39.19\00:17:41.46
From death, yeah, or
killing somebody else.
00:17:41.49\00:17:43.46
Yeah, I didn't consider
it as help at that time.
00:17:43.49\00:17:45.73
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:45.76\00:17:47.86
Yeah, I thought I
was thinking rehab
00:17:47.93\00:17:50.70
or something like
that but not prison.
00:17:50.73\00:17:52.70
But not prison.
00:17:52.73\00:17:53.80
So you end up going to
prison, what happens there?
00:17:53.84\00:17:57.37
What was life
like for you in prison?
00:17:57.41\00:18:00.78
Prison to me was
it was very scary.
00:18:00.81\00:18:04.61
I'd always been able to
talk my way out of trouble
00:18:04.65\00:18:07.02
whether it was, in
jail, I could get bailed out
00:18:07.05\00:18:10.59
or I could leave to
another city or I could run,
00:18:10.62\00:18:13.46
I didn't have to deal
with my own consequences
00:18:13.49\00:18:16.56
'cause I had been
doing crime for so long
00:18:16.59\00:18:18.99
so when that door finally
shut and here I'm in prison,
00:18:19.03\00:18:23.43
I cried out to God
and I cried out to God
00:18:23.47\00:18:25.67
every day and since then,
every day even till this day,
00:18:25.70\00:18:30.17
I've cried out to God.
00:18:30.21\00:18:31.27
Amen. How long
were you in prison?
00:18:31.31\00:18:33.98
I had a six and a
half year sentence
00:18:34.01\00:18:35.54
and in the state of
Arizona, you'll have to do 85%
00:18:35.58\00:18:37.81
so I did about five years
three months and some change
00:18:37.85\00:18:41.52
but that was
plenty long enough for me.
00:18:41.55\00:18:44.15
It's what it took, you know.
00:18:44.19\00:18:45.89
A lot of people say, "Well,
yeah, God wants me in prison"
00:18:45.92\00:18:48.26
but God doesn't
really want us in prison.
00:18:48.29\00:18:51.13
He has a purpose and a
meaning for us outside of prison
00:18:51.16\00:18:54.10
but it was my consequences
that ended myself up in prison.
00:18:54.13\00:18:58.13
And when I first got there,
I tried blaming my parents,
00:18:58.17\00:19:01.80
my sister, thinking
how did I end up here?
00:19:01.84\00:19:04.27
There's had to been
something that they did to me
00:19:04.31\00:19:06.24
when I was
young, that didn't work.
00:19:06.27\00:19:08.54
I tried blaming
and my second wife
00:19:08.58\00:19:10.98
'cause I had got married
just before I went to prison,
00:19:11.01\00:19:13.21
tried blaming
her, that didn't work.
00:19:13.25\00:19:15.48
I tried blaming all my friends
that used to bring me dope,
00:19:15.52\00:19:18.52
that didn't work and
then, so finally, I blamed God
00:19:18.55\00:19:21.06
and I kicked that
around for a while
00:19:21.09\00:19:23.09
but that didn't work either.
00:19:23.12\00:19:24.16
And it wasn't until I actually
00:19:24.19\00:19:25.83
put the blame where it belonged,
00:19:25.86\00:19:27.03
was on me and my choices
00:19:27.03\00:19:28.60
and that's when my
recovery started taking off.
00:19:28.63\00:19:31.60
You know, David,
it's so interesting
00:19:31.63\00:19:34.60
that many times
we do want to blame
00:19:34.64\00:19:37.11
someone else for our choices...
00:19:37.14\00:19:38.44
Absolutely.
00:19:38.47\00:19:39.37
But all of our
choices have consequences.
00:19:39.41\00:19:41.54
Mm-hmm.
00:19:41.58\00:19:42.51
And God tells us to
choose, make a choice,
00:19:42.54\00:19:46.11
but He wants us to choose
Him and He wants us to choose
00:19:46.15\00:19:48.98
the better way,
the more abundant way
00:19:49.02\00:19:51.09
and we contend to
choose the dark side
00:19:51.12\00:19:54.16
and when we do,
there are consequences.
00:19:54.19\00:19:56.79
Always. And it's always a trap.
00:19:56.83\00:19:59.26
It's like there's this trap
that Satan has for each of us
00:19:59.29\00:20:03.77
so he identifies our weaknesses,
00:20:03.80\00:20:06.13
you say you have an
addictive personality.
00:20:06.17\00:20:08.34
So he knows how to
throw things your way.
00:20:08.37\00:20:11.77
Thankfully, we
have the Holy Spirit
00:20:11.81\00:20:14.14
to help us to not
make the wrong choice.
00:20:14.18\00:20:17.15
Amen.
00:20:17.18\00:20:18.11
So what did you do
while you were in prison?
00:20:18.15\00:20:21.08
Did you get
involved in ministries?
00:20:21.12\00:20:23.05
What did you do?
00:20:23.08\00:20:24.19
Well, I went to every
recovery meeting that I could
00:20:24.22\00:20:26.89
because I didn't want
to come back to prison
00:20:26.92\00:20:29.86
and I had a model
that I kept telling myself,
00:20:29.89\00:20:32.43
live your life today
00:20:32.46\00:20:33.60
how I want to
live it when I get out
00:20:33.63\00:20:35.43
because if I
don't live it everyday
00:20:35.46\00:20:37.23
how I want to live
later, I'm not gonna do that.
00:20:37.27\00:20:39.83
And so I would go
to all church services
00:20:39.87\00:20:42.70
that I could go
to and at that time,
00:20:42.74\00:20:44.07
we didn't have any
Adventist church services
00:20:44.11\00:20:47.08
coming in there,
but I went to them all,
00:20:47.11\00:20:48.88
I went to recovery meetings
00:20:48.91\00:20:50.48
and I actually started doing
00:20:50.51\00:20:53.18
Amazing Facts Bible
studies with the guys.
00:20:53.21\00:20:55.02
I had as many as 30 guys doing
00:20:55.05\00:20:57.02
Amazing Facts
Bible studies and--
00:20:57.05\00:20:59.05
So you started running
Bible studies in prison?
00:20:59.09\00:21:01.89
Mm-hmm, and we actually,
00:21:01.92\00:21:03.09
and we started a 12-step program
00:21:03.12\00:21:04.79
just with the
inmates in there also
00:21:04.83\00:21:06.83
and the Bible
studies were awesome
00:21:06.86\00:21:09.13
because I would have
guys come up to me go,
00:21:09.16\00:21:10.93
"Hey, the dead really are dead."
00:21:10.97\00:21:13.03
And, "Hey,
Saturday is the Sabbath."
00:21:13.07\00:21:15.67
And it was like,
"Yeah, you're right."
00:21:15.70\00:21:16.97
And they were just so excited.
00:21:17.01\00:21:19.34
And oh, by the way,
today is a special day.
00:21:19.37\00:21:22.78
Today is my
16th year anniversary
00:21:22.81\00:21:26.58
for being clean and sober and--
00:21:26.61\00:21:28.95
Look at how good
God is. He is good.
00:21:28.98\00:21:31.15
He worked that out so
I could be here today.
00:21:31.19\00:21:32.62
Isn't that
amazing? That is so amazing.
00:21:32.65\00:21:35.09
You and your
wife are celebrating
00:21:35.12\00:21:37.89
16 years today, right?
00:21:37.93\00:21:40.33
Yep. Praise God
for His deliverance.
00:21:40.36\00:21:44.57
Absolutely. For His deliverance.
00:21:44.60\00:21:46.94
So you're in prison,
00:21:46.97\00:21:49.14
you're helping other
inmates to find Jesus
00:21:49.17\00:21:53.21
and so doing your
walk is getting stronger.
00:21:53.24\00:21:56.68
Oh, absolutely.
00:21:56.71\00:21:58.18
And if you ever have
problems, depression or whatever
00:21:58.21\00:22:01.75
and you want to get out of that,
00:22:01.78\00:22:03.49
one of the
Adventist elders said,
00:22:03.52\00:22:05.52
started coming out
and visiting me from Yuma,
00:22:05.55\00:22:08.52
he would say, "Go
help somebody else.
00:22:08.56\00:22:11.39
Get out of yourself,
go help somebody else."
00:22:11.43\00:22:12.49
Right.
00:22:12.53\00:22:13.56
"Do something
nice for somebody else"
00:22:13.60\00:22:14.93
and the next thing you
know you're not worried,
00:22:14.93\00:22:16.43
not thinking about yourself,
00:22:16.46\00:22:17.70
you're thinking
about that other person.
00:22:17.73\00:22:19.10
That is really true. Yeah.
00:22:19.13\00:22:21.14
And not only by
helping them, are you--
00:22:21.17\00:22:25.21
you're really
helping that person
00:22:25.24\00:22:26.78
but you really
watering your spirit as well.
00:22:26.81\00:22:30.68
Your faith gets
stronger because you're helping
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.85
somebody else to find the Lord
00:22:32.88\00:22:35.98
and it just
means so much to you.
00:22:36.02\00:22:38.62
Oh, absolutely.
00:22:38.65\00:22:39.69
Which just makes
all the difference.
00:22:39.72\00:22:40.82
Absolutely.
00:22:40.86\00:22:41.89
So how did you get out
00:22:41.92\00:22:43.56
and what did you
do when you got out?
00:22:43.59\00:22:45.06
Well, when I was
finally released,
00:22:45.09\00:22:47.56
I was released to my mother's
00:22:47.60\00:22:49.43
and she had
introduced me to this girl
00:22:49.46\00:22:53.57
that knew an
inmate that was my cellie
00:22:53.60\00:22:56.10
and she was
giving Bible studies too
00:22:56.14\00:22:58.07
and she met him at church
00:22:58.11\00:23:00.21
and she had a
homeless ministry going on,
00:23:00.24\00:23:02.64
feeding the homeless
and we'd get anywhere
00:23:02.68\00:23:04.65
from a 100-125 people
every Sabbath afternoon
00:23:04.68\00:23:08.18
so I started help in doing that.
00:23:08.22\00:23:10.29
And then, I helped her start,
00:23:10.32\00:23:13.22
we were managing halfway houses,
00:23:13.25\00:23:14.69
an Adventist halfway
house after that and then,
00:23:14.72\00:23:17.59
wasn't very long
after that we got married
00:23:17.63\00:23:20.30
and... to a wonderful woman.
00:23:20.33\00:23:23.57
She helps keep me on track
00:23:23.60\00:23:24.90
'cause I have
tendencies to want to slip back
00:23:24.93\00:23:26.97
to that social wasp
that I am but wonderful woman
00:23:27.00\00:23:33.31
and the
interesting thing about my wife
00:23:33.34\00:23:35.98
now is that God
picked her for me.
00:23:36.01\00:23:38.88
I picked my other
wives and I'm not saying
00:23:38.91\00:23:40.48
anything bad about them,
I'm just saying that God,
00:23:40.52\00:23:42.78
I included God in this
decision and when you do that,
00:23:42.82\00:23:46.32
oh, man, He opens up doors
of blessings that you just,
00:23:46.35\00:23:49.66
you don't even
know that are out there.
00:23:49.69\00:23:51.19
That is so, so
true and so great.
00:23:51.23\00:23:54.30
You guys can
minister together...
00:23:54.30\00:23:56.06
Mm-hmm.
00:23:56.10\00:23:57.13
And that is such
a wonderful thing
00:23:57.17\00:23:58.93
'cause she has some things
00:23:58.97\00:24:00.64
that she's dealt
with in her past,
00:24:00.67\00:24:02.37
you have things
that you've dealt with
00:24:02.40\00:24:04.24
and God has
delivered both of you
00:24:04.27\00:24:06.68
and you've been walking
in the light for 16 years,
00:24:06.71\00:24:09.88
which doesn't mean, you know,
00:24:09.91\00:24:11.61
we never want
viewers to think that
00:24:11.65\00:24:13.88
just because you're
walking with God now,
00:24:13.92\00:24:16.38
you never make mistakes.
00:24:16.42\00:24:17.89
Everybody make
mistakes but we have a Savior.
00:24:17.92\00:24:20.69
When we sin, we have an advocate
00:24:20.72\00:24:22.52
with the Father,
Jesus Christ the Righteous.
00:24:22.56\00:24:23.79
Oh, no.
00:24:23.83\00:24:24.76
My wife thinks I'm a
knucklehead most of time
00:24:24.79\00:24:26.39
but she puts up with me.
00:24:26.43\00:24:28.23
She keeps praying for
me, she keeps me in line.
00:24:28.26\00:24:30.87
What would you
have our viewers to know
00:24:30.90\00:24:32.93
about what God
can do in your life?
00:24:32.97\00:24:37.31
If I was to say
something to a viewer
00:24:37.34\00:24:39.41
that's listening right now--
00:24:39.44\00:24:40.48
Speak to the camera.
00:24:40.51\00:24:41.68
It would be that no matter
how dark your world has become
00:24:41.71\00:24:46.15
because of the
choices you've made,
00:24:46.18\00:24:47.95
God is in the
business of taking darkness
00:24:47.98\00:24:50.35
and making it into light.
00:24:50.39\00:24:52.15
It doesn't matter how
much crime you've done,
00:24:52.19\00:24:54.02
it doesn't matter
how much drugs or alcohol
00:24:54.06\00:24:57.33
or whatever
decisions you've made
00:24:57.36\00:24:59.73
and it doesn't even
have to go to that extreme.
00:24:59.76\00:25:02.46
If you're
suffering with depression,
00:25:02.50\00:25:03.77
if you're
suffering with mental issues,
00:25:03.80\00:25:06.84
if you're suffering with--
wanting to commit suicide,
00:25:06.87\00:25:09.87
God can take that
darkness and turn it into light.
00:25:09.90\00:25:13.24
And I learned
that so well because
00:25:13.27\00:25:15.44
that's what he did in my life.
00:25:15.48\00:25:17.61
Praise the Lord, brother.
00:25:17.65\00:25:19.28
This is really,
really been a blessing.
00:25:19.31\00:25:22.28
Our folks need to know
00:25:22.32\00:25:24.35
that God is still in
the deliverance business.
00:25:24.39\00:25:27.72
That's what He does best.
00:25:27.76\00:25:28.69
What do you want to
do with your ministry?
00:25:28.72\00:25:30.79
Where do you see it going?
00:25:30.83\00:25:32.43
Well, we do jail
ministries right now
00:25:32.46\00:25:35.40
and in the state of
Arizona, you weren't--
00:25:35.43\00:25:37.70
as an ex-felon, I wasn't allowed
00:25:37.73\00:25:39.30
to get back into the prisons
00:25:39.33\00:25:41.20
but they started
saying that we can,
00:25:41.24\00:25:42.97
so we filled
out our applications
00:25:43.00\00:25:44.94
but because of the
methamphetamine charges
00:25:44.97\00:25:47.41
that I had, I said I
can't come into the state jails.
00:25:47.44\00:25:51.18
But they're
reviewing my case again,
00:25:51.21\00:25:54.72
so I need
everybody to pray for me
00:25:54.75\00:25:56.65
that-- they accepted
Denise but they turned me down
00:25:56.69\00:25:59.72
but hopefully, we'll be
able to get into the prisons,
00:25:59.75\00:26:02.42
we want to start a halfway house
00:26:02.46\00:26:05.09
at the community center
where my wife is director of
00:26:05.13\00:26:08.23
and we just want
to keep going in,
00:26:08.26\00:26:10.33
in the jail ministry
and prison ministries.
00:26:10.37\00:26:12.97
It is so great that you and
Denise can minister together.
00:26:13.00\00:26:16.71
How has that
changed your spiritual life?
00:26:16.74\00:26:20.04
Oh, it's
awesome having a partner
00:26:20.08\00:26:22.08
that's on the same page with you
00:26:22.11\00:26:23.85
and my wife is
really a dynamic speaker
00:26:23.88\00:26:27.45
and when we go into the jails,
00:26:27.48\00:26:29.58
we just have such an
awesome time with the guys.
00:26:29.62\00:26:32.12
They're not just
inmates, they're brothers to us
00:26:32.15\00:26:34.69
and we go in,
we laugh with them,
00:26:34.72\00:26:36.93
we cry with them,
we worship together,
00:26:36.96\00:26:39.26
we sing, we read the Bible
00:26:39.29\00:26:40.83
and they just--
they just love us
00:26:40.86\00:26:44.27
and today, someone called
me today as a matter of fact
00:26:44.30\00:26:47.64
and just wanted to let me
know that he had gotten out
00:26:47.67\00:26:50.11
and we'd
already knew that he had
00:26:50.14\00:26:51.41
but he want to
know when church was
00:26:51.44\00:26:53.54
so he's hoping he can
make it to church this Sabbath.
00:26:53.58\00:26:56.44
And that's what
really makes us excited
00:26:56.48\00:26:59.15
when they start to
coming to church with us.
00:26:59.18\00:27:00.82
Absolutely, that's what
it's all about, isn't it?
00:27:00.85\00:27:02.58
Yes.
00:27:02.62\00:27:03.75
You know, it makes the
whole thing just so worthwhile.
00:27:03.79\00:27:07.16
You know, how many people
are coming to your meetings?
00:27:07.19\00:27:11.29
Well, to the church
meeting or inside the jails?
00:27:11.33\00:27:14.73
We get an average of 20,
00:27:14.76\00:27:16.43
sometimes
there's been 30 or more
00:27:16.46\00:27:18.30
but they usually let
out about 20 at a time
00:27:18.33\00:27:20.57
and that's Sabbath
afternoon, Sundays and Mondays.
00:27:20.60\00:27:24.21
We're so grateful for all
00:27:24.24\00:27:25.74
that you and Denise are doing
on the frontlines in this--
00:27:25.77\00:27:29.04
the prison
ministry is so, so important
00:27:29.08\00:27:32.48
because sometimes
our guys feel like,
00:27:32.51\00:27:35.35
and women feel like
nobody's thinking of them,
00:27:35.38\00:27:37.89
they're forgotten.
00:27:37.92\00:27:39.22
But we know that God
has not forgotten them
00:27:39.25\00:27:41.89
and He's sent wonderful workers
00:27:41.92\00:27:43.36
like you and Denise.
00:27:43.39\00:27:44.43
So thank you so
much for being here.
00:27:44.46\00:27:45.63
Thank you.
00:27:45.66\00:27:47.30
And thank you for tuning in.
00:27:47.30\00:27:49.63
You know, it is really
important that you pray
00:27:49.66\00:27:53.07
for people like Denise and David
00:27:53.10\00:27:55.54
that are really
working hard for the Lord.
00:27:55.57\00:27:58.51
Well, that's the end
of our program for today.
00:27:58.54\00:28:00.31
Thanks so much for
tuning in and join us next time
00:28:00.34\00:28:02.88
'cause it wouldn't
be the same without you.
00:28:02.91\00:28:05.05