Stay tuned to meet a man
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whose life fell apart
with drugs and prison.
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Find out what God
has done in his life
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and how he's using his
experiences to serve others.
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My name is Yvonne Lewis
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and you're
watching Urban Report.
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report.
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My guest today
is David Sanderson,
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literature
evangelist and man with a story.
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Welcome to Urban
Report, David. Thank you.
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It's pleasure to be
here. Thank you for coming.
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You have a very
interesting testimony
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and I was told by Brian Hamilton
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who met you and your wife
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and both of you have
powerful testimonies.
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She's also on
Urban Report this season
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so I'm really happy
to have both of you.
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Let's hear about your journey.
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How-- What was
your childhood life?
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Well, I was raised
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as a Seventh-day
Adventist in a Christian home.
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Two parents, a sister, a dog,
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just an average
but Christian home.
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I went all
through church schools,
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through grade 1 through 8
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and then went
to my freshman year
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to a Christian
academy, Thunderbird academy
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and then I was asked
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not to come back
to Thunderbird academy
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because my lifestyle had already
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taken a turn for the worse
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and... but I had--
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I was involved
before that happened.
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I was involved with pathfinders,
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my parents are active
in the church and just...
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it is really a
normal Christian family
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and you wouldn't
think where I went,
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I would come out
of that but I did.
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So what happened?
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Well, I have a really,
I know now as I look back,
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I have a really
addictive personality
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and I can
remember when I was little,
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my mom would pass out a
piece of candy or something
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and she give me one
but one was never enough
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and so I would go in
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and she always had candy
hidden all over the house.
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And I'd go start going through
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her drawers and
stuff and finding candy
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and then I also
knew she had change
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in her purse because of church.
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So I would start
going in her purse
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and stealing the change,
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run down to the
store and buy candy
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and then eat it up
real quick and come home.
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And I didn't
realize what that was
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but I do now that it was
just, I can never get enough,
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it was my addictive personality.
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So then after that,
and my mother was a nurse
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and we had, and at that time,
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the doctor would do house
calls and if he had to call her,
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she would have
medication at the house.
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So at a real young
age, I was 12 at the time,
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and I started hanging
out with other Christian kids
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that were about four years older
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but I started taking
prescription pain pills
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and just to try to
keep up with these guys
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and show them that I was cool
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and, you know, I
could hang with them
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and at that time I had gotten--
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I'd been
arrested for shoplifting
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at the age of 12.
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So at 12 years, my life really
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it took a dive for the downhill.
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So it took a dive when you--
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were you hanging
with the wrong kids?
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What actually kind of
pulled you into that--
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into that lifestyle, you think?
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Well, I don't want to put blame
on the kids, on the older kids,
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they were just
being the older kids
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that they were, I was
just trying to impress them
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so I could hang with
them and to this day,
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I don't blame them for anything
because it was my choices.
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Bottom line, it was
the choices that I made
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that ended me up
the road that I chose.
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But also, you
know, by that time,
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by the time I was 12, I
knew that stealing was wrong.
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I'd actually even stolen
some money out of our church.
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I used to go mow the
yards and take care of the yards
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and there was money inside,
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some tithe
money that was inside.
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And I had taken that and
went and bought candy with it.
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And... so really
I started stealing
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and that really set
me out looking for things
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that I could just,
you know, I didn't--
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it was all about
me and it wasn't,
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I didn't want to have to work.
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I didn't like to
earn money for it.
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It was just, if I saw
something I wanted it and...
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so at 12, drugs, I
was already doing drugs,
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I started
drinking, I started smoking
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and that's when the academy
asked me not to come back
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because I was brining
drugs, alcohol onto the campus.
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They had a dormitory there
and we were getting the kids
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that were in the
dormitory high and drunk
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and so they asked me
not to come back but...
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How did your
folks deal with this?
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Because you came
from a two parent home,
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how was your dad dealing
with you with these issues?
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Well, my dad was a farmer
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and he was gone
a lot of the times
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and I would usually
always see him late at night
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when I was going
to bed or on Sabbaths
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'cause we always
went to church together.
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So I guess, we're what they
would call a latchkey child,
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my mom wouldn't get
off work till 5 o'clock
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so I would be home
with my sister alone
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and I resented that
because she was trying to,
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you know, tell
me what I had to do
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and I didn't want her
telling me what to do.
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This is your older sister?
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My older sister,
yeah, bless her heart.
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And so that was a problem
and dad wasn't really around,
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and really, my
parents were in denial
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because I'm 56 so this was going
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on around, '70, '71, '72,
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or actually '71 through '73
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and I think a lot
of Adventist parents
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weren't really
aware of the drug problem.
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They knew it was
going on in the world
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but they didn't think it
was happening in their church,
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especially with their
children and it really was.
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It was out of hand.
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It really is important
for parents to stay connected
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and sometimes it's hard
because when you're busy,
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if you're a single parent,
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you're trying to
do a job or two jobs
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and take care of your
children and if you're married,
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but, you know, the father is--
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the husband is away
or out of the light,
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it's hard to really
connect but you have to,
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because your kids will get
away from you if you don't.
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Yes.
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With all the things
that are in society now
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to pull them away from God,
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if we don't stay
connected to our kids
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and stay connected to God,
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we are really in trouble
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and that's kind of what
happened in your home then.
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Yes.
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Your parents really
were not-- Doing good things.
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Right.
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But they were busy doing
the things they were doing.
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Right, and not knowing
that their child was in trouble.
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Right. Did you get
caught shoplifting?
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Yes, I got caught
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by the police
department when I was 12
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and then I had gotten
caught another time my dad
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'cause I came home and
all these cassette tapes
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and I didn't like to
admit, I said I just took them,
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then he made me, took me
back to the store and in person,
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give these back and apologize
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and that just-- that crushed me.
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You would think that
that would be enough to where
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I wouldn't
continue that lifestyle
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but it didn't, it wasn't enough.
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It just made me resent
my father more at that time.
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And but the drug
abuse just escalated,
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you know, you might
start out just drinking
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or you might start out
just doing a little bit
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of pain pills but
by the time I was 16,
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I was already shooting cocaine
and doing that quite often,
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doing heroin at that
time and any kind of drug
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that I could get my hands on,
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I was already
doing any kind of drug
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that I could get a hold of.
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And still living at home?
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And still living at
home. Did the parents know?
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I had run away a couple of times
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and but, you
know, if they were to--
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if my parents were to
ask me, "What's going on?
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What are you doing?"
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I was resentful, I was hateful,
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I didn't want to talk to them
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and if they did ever
accuse me of something,
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of course, I would lie and
say, you know, "That's not me."
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They actually
found some syringes
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once in the back
one of my vehicles
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and I said no and I
blamed it off on my friend,
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but, you know, in
reality, it was mine.
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But... they may have known
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maybe I don't think
they wanted to accept
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that what was going
'cause my sister was perfect,
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staying in school,
staying in Adventist school,
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was going to Adventist college
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and then here was me
and a total opposite.
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The rebellious
one. Very rebellious.
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Yeah, yeah. Very rebellious.
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And that, and that happens
with, you know, siblings,
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one can be like the
goodie-goodie kind of kid
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and the other one can
be a bit more adventurous.
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You were taking that to
a whole new place though.
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Interest would be putting
it lightly, very lightly.
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Because if you were 16,
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and really caught up
out there in hard drugs.
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Yeah. How did the spiral...
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how did the
spiral take hold of you?
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You started doing little things
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but did you start
doing it more often,
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were you hanging out
with the wrong people?
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And I'm not blaming the people
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but how did that
spiral kind of just take hold?
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Well, with
drugs, the more you do,
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the more shame,
the more guilt you have
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because you know
right from wrong.
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The more crime you
do because not only
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I was using but
I was doing crime.
00:09:46.80\00:09:48.69
Also, I had already had a DUI
00:09:48.72\00:09:50.54
by the time I was 16.
00:09:50.57\00:09:52.15
I had already had
a grand theft auto,
00:09:52.18\00:09:54.27
I'd had a burglary charge,
00:09:54.30\00:09:56.40
I mean, it just,
it just escalated
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but the high
medicated took the reality away
00:09:58.28\00:10:03.11
and as long as
I could stay high,
00:10:03.14\00:10:04.54
I didn't have to
deal with reality
00:10:04.57\00:10:06.26
and I couldn't get over--
00:10:06.29\00:10:08.45
Normally, now, I'm
kind of a shy person,
00:10:08.48\00:10:12.05
with-- my wife is
a social butterfly
00:10:12.08\00:10:14.01
but I'm more like a social wasp.
00:10:14.04\00:10:16.78
I would rather
just beat to myself
00:10:16.81\00:10:18.95
but when I started getting high,
00:10:18.98\00:10:20.32
I could actually talk to people,
00:10:20.35\00:10:22.08
I could talk to girls and
not feel inhibited by them.
00:10:22.11\00:10:26.50
And it started out as fun.
00:10:26.53\00:10:28.85
It always starts out as
fun or just an occasional user.
00:10:28.88\00:10:33.07
But the next
thing, I couldn't stop.
00:10:33.10\00:10:35.04
I was totally out of control.
There was no stopping me.
00:10:35.07\00:10:38.34
Yeah and again, that's
part of Satan's plan for you.
00:10:38.37\00:10:42.27
Absolutely.
00:10:42.30\00:10:43.34
To just give you a little
bit and it's really fun at first
00:10:43.37\00:10:46.70
and it's just--
and you can control it.
00:10:46.73\00:10:48.83
"I got this."
00:10:48.86\00:10:49.89
Right, and then,
little by little by little,
00:10:49.92\00:10:52.94
he just sucks you in
and before you know it,
00:10:52.97\00:10:55.81
you're so out of control
that you end up in prison.
00:10:55.84\00:10:59.31
Absolutely.
00:10:59.34\00:11:00.37
And that's what happened to you.
00:11:00.40\00:11:02.14
And it's funny because...
when I was a teenager,
00:11:02.17\00:11:05.47
that's when I really
started getting into trouble.
00:11:05.50\00:11:06.87
I didn't actually go
to prison till I was 40.
00:11:06.90\00:11:09.61
When I was 21, I got married
to another girl, to a girl
00:11:09.64\00:11:13.16
and we were both
into drugs and alcohol
00:11:13.19\00:11:15.41
but for some reason,
I thought that might,
00:11:15.44\00:11:18.50
I'd be able to settle
down and that'll change.
00:11:18.53\00:11:21.07
But two weeks after I married,
I had to leave the state
00:11:21.10\00:11:23.44
because the police
were looking for me
00:11:23.47\00:11:25.28
because I was
actually-- I had sold some stuff
00:11:25.31\00:11:27.70
that didn't belong to me
00:11:27.73\00:11:29.00
and so we moved to another state
00:11:29.03\00:11:31.61
and the drug
abuse and alcoholism,
00:11:31.64\00:11:35.81
it continued and
continued and continued.
00:11:35.84\00:11:38.63
Until where we finally
both hit a bottom up there,
00:11:38.66\00:11:40.73
I got very
abusive to her, physically
00:11:40.76\00:11:43.94
and she had threatened to leave
00:11:43.97\00:11:46.16
and take our
daughter at that time.
00:11:46.19\00:11:47.94
Oh, was she a
drug abuser as well?
00:11:47.97\00:11:49.58
Yes, yeah, at the same time.
00:11:49.61\00:11:51.61
And so we both
got into the church
00:11:51.64\00:11:54.61
and we actually got into a
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:11:54.64\00:11:58.14
in this small little town
and for a couple three years,
00:11:58.17\00:12:02.31
we were actually
in the church longer
00:12:02.34\00:12:03.55
but for a couple or three years,
00:12:03.58\00:12:04.75
I was actually
clean off the drugs,
00:12:04.78\00:12:07.41
was an elder, was
helping out doing sermons
00:12:07.44\00:12:09.80
and carrying on a
normal life, so to speak,
00:12:09.83\00:12:14.18
and then, I hurt
myself going down some stairs.
00:12:14.21\00:12:18.01
I don't remember
exactly what happened
00:12:18.04\00:12:19.42
but I was issued from the doctor
00:12:19.45\00:12:21.43
prescription pain
pills and I took those
00:12:21.46\00:12:24.11
and I picked up right
where I'd left off and...
00:12:24.14\00:12:27.24
Wow.
00:12:27.27\00:12:28.30
Next thing I know, we
had moved out of the state,
00:12:28.33\00:12:33.47
moved back to my parents' house
00:12:33.50\00:12:35.26
'cause, you know, we'd
lost our house, I'd lost my job
00:12:35.29\00:12:39.40
and now my wife
did take the kids
00:12:39.43\00:12:43.39
and we had two kids at that time
00:12:43.42\00:12:46.15
and divorced me,
next thing you know,
00:12:46.18\00:12:48.35
I'm now in my 30s, I'm
cooking methamphetamine.
00:12:48.38\00:12:52.62
I was
manufacturing methamphetamine
00:12:52.65\00:12:54.79
and that's the road that
got me going towards prison.
00:12:54.82\00:12:57.86
Praise God.
00:12:57.89\00:13:00.45
And you know, it's
an interesting thing
00:13:00.48\00:13:02.30
that you would say praise God
00:13:02.33\00:13:03.68
and we'll explore
why you said that.
00:13:03.71\00:13:05.76
But let's go back for a
second, so you were married,
00:13:05.79\00:13:10.42
you had children but the drugs
00:13:10.45\00:13:14.08
and the alcohol
just had such control
00:13:14.11\00:13:16.30
that you lost everything.
00:13:16.33\00:13:17.91
Mm-hmm. Including your family.
00:13:17.94\00:13:20.31
Where were you spiritually then,
00:13:20.34\00:13:22.94
when you lost everything?
00:13:22.97\00:13:24.00
Did you decide, "Man, I
need God at this point."?
00:13:24.03\00:13:27.70
Or were you
saying, "I got this."?
00:13:27.73\00:13:30.97
Well, in reality I
never lost anything.
00:13:31.00\00:13:35.29
I traded my family.
00:13:35.32\00:13:37.78
I traded our
home, I traded a career,
00:13:37.81\00:13:40.01
I traded my children for drugs.
00:13:40.04\00:13:44.12
We'll talk about
that a little bit later
00:13:44.15\00:13:45.60
but when we were
in the county jails,
00:13:45.63\00:13:47.65
the guys were always saying,
00:13:47.68\00:13:48.72
you know, I lost
this, I lost that.
00:13:48.75\00:13:51.12
No, we actually made
a decision and we traded
00:13:51.15\00:13:54.89
whatever it was that we
wanted for our families.
00:13:54.92\00:13:57.72
And... but at that time,
00:13:57.75\00:13:59.91
I knew of God
even having sermons,
00:13:59.94\00:14:02.92
even raised at
in a Christian home
00:14:02.95\00:14:04.90
and having Bible
lessons every week,
00:14:04.93\00:14:07.26
I knew of God but I didn't
really personally know God yet.
00:14:07.29\00:14:10.49
And in AA, they have a saying,
00:14:10.52\00:14:14.17
you know, you white knuckling it
00:14:14.20\00:14:15.68
so those years that I
wasn't using, I was night--
00:14:15.71\00:14:18.06
white knuckling it,
trying to stay sober
00:14:18.09\00:14:21.38
but it didn't take much
to push me over the edge.
00:14:21.41\00:14:23.98
Yeah, those painkillers... Yeah.
00:14:24.01\00:14:26.73
For that pain that just
got you back started again?
00:14:26.76\00:14:30.17
Yeah, it just brought
everything right back.
00:14:30.20\00:14:32.22
Within days, I was right
where I was when I left off.
00:14:32.25\00:14:35.63
So what happened
after that? What did you do?
00:14:35.66\00:14:38.86
Well, when we
came back to Arizona
00:14:38.89\00:14:41.00
and then she
actually had divorced me
00:14:41.03\00:14:42.61
and taken the kids,
then that's when I started,
00:14:42.64\00:14:44.71
I hooked up with some people
00:14:44.74\00:14:45.88
and started
cooking methamphetamine
00:14:45.91\00:14:47.92
and my mom, bless her heart,
00:14:47.95\00:14:51.14
had been praying
for me for 28 years
00:14:51.17\00:14:53.54
and I knew the Holy
Spirit was working on me
00:14:53.57\00:14:59.10
because I would go
out with my friends
00:14:59.13\00:15:01.04
and I was
cooking methamphetamine,
00:15:01.07\00:15:02.39
we had a cooking
operation in Arizona
00:15:02.42\00:15:05.18
and I was cooking it
in different locations
00:15:05.21\00:15:07.11
and I thought I was invincible,
I would actually cook
00:15:07.14\00:15:09.11
right across from
the sheriffs department--
00:15:09.14\00:15:11.11
Now for people who don't know
00:15:11.14\00:15:12.30
what cooking
means, explain that.
00:15:12.33\00:15:15.30
I was actually making speed
through a chemical process,
00:15:15.33\00:15:19.31
you would use
flasks and heat and flames
00:15:19.34\00:15:21.77
and mix these
chemicals together,
00:15:21.80\00:15:24.92
very dangerous operation,
very, just the chemicals,
00:15:24.95\00:15:27.56
the fumes are just very deadly.
00:15:27.59\00:15:30.56
I know I did it at a
friend of mine's house
00:15:30.59\00:15:33.18
and caught the house on fire.
00:15:33.21\00:15:35.60
I did that a couple of times
00:15:35.63\00:15:37.06
but 'cause you're
just up for so many days,
00:15:37.09\00:15:40.51
it's not like you
just you do alcohol,
00:15:40.54\00:15:42.61
you drink, you get
drunk then you pass out
00:15:42.64\00:15:44.40
but speed, you can stay
up for several days at a time
00:15:44.43\00:15:47.39
but you think you've got
this but you really don't.
00:15:47.42\00:15:50.47
You really have nothing. Yeah.
00:15:50.50\00:15:52.01
And so yeah, I was
manufacturing speed
00:15:52.04\00:15:56.50
and they call it
glass at that time.
00:15:56.53\00:15:58.75
So you went--
were you using it first
00:15:58.78\00:16:01.13
and then you started making it?
00:16:01.16\00:16:02.49
I was my best customer, yeah.
00:16:02.52\00:16:05.38
That was a
problem, I always thought
00:16:05.41\00:16:06.91
I could make money at it
00:16:06.94\00:16:08.04
but I couldn't, I
was really just making it
00:16:08.07\00:16:10.28
so I could stay
high all the time.
00:16:10.31\00:16:13.08
And actually, and I would
make it for those around me
00:16:13.11\00:16:15.65
because as they would praise me,
00:16:15.68\00:16:17.81
as I would give them
dope, they would say,
00:16:17.84\00:16:19.95
"Oh, you are the nicest guy."
00:16:19.98\00:16:21.59
It made me feel good but I
knew what I was really like.
00:16:21.62\00:16:24.89
You know, I knew what
was really going on inside.
00:16:24.92\00:16:27.23
And it got to the point
00:16:27.26\00:16:29.39
where the Holy Spirit
was working on me so bad
00:16:29.42\00:16:31.83
that it's like the good
angel and the bad angel,
00:16:31.86\00:16:35.86
once over here and
your head's just going
00:16:35.89\00:16:37.43
back and forth till it
was just driving me nuts,
00:16:37.46\00:16:39.29
I couldn't get high anymore
as much as I tried to use.
00:16:39.32\00:16:43.05
Everybody else
would be just gone
00:16:43.08\00:16:45.54
and I couldn't get high,
00:16:45.57\00:16:47.20
I knew
something was going wrong.
00:16:47.23\00:16:49.44
So God really was stepping
in and blocking that high.
00:16:49.47\00:16:53.01
He did, He did.
He stepped right in.
00:16:53.04\00:16:54.95
Wow, so how did
you end up in prison?
00:16:54.98\00:16:58.49
Well, I went out one day
00:16:58.52\00:17:00.90
and I just ran
out into the woods
00:17:00.93\00:17:03.02
and I cried out to God
00:17:03.05\00:17:04.90
and I just talked to
him like He was right there.
00:17:04.93\00:17:07.41
I didn't know
that I was doing it
00:17:07.44\00:17:09.15
but I was
crying and I just said,
00:17:09.18\00:17:10.85
"I can't take this anymore"
and I said, "I'm so thirsty."
00:17:10.88\00:17:15.03
And I went around a corner
and here was a natural spring
00:17:15.06\00:17:17.85
in a culvert so I took a drink
00:17:17.88\00:17:19.78
and I knew, I didn't really
understand it at that time
00:17:19.81\00:17:23.19
but about a week
later, they raided our house
00:17:23.22\00:17:25.64
and I was arrested and
that's how I ended up in prison.
00:17:25.67\00:17:29.13
Wow. Yeah, so that was His help.
00:17:29.16\00:17:33.09
You might not have
felt it at that point,
00:17:33.12\00:17:35.24
you might not have
realized it at that point
00:17:35.27\00:17:37.32
that was His
hope and He was really
00:17:37.35\00:17:39.24
sparing you from,
probably from death.
00:17:39.27\00:17:41.54
From death, yeah, or
killing somebody else.
00:17:41.57\00:17:43.54
Yeah, I didn't consider
it as help at that time.
00:17:43.57\00:17:45.82
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:45.85\00:17:47.97
Yeah, I thought I
was thinking rehab
00:17:48.00\00:17:50.83
or something like
that but not prison.
00:17:50.86\00:17:52.83
But not prison.
00:17:52.86\00:17:53.90
So you end up going to
prison, what happens there?
00:17:53.93\00:17:57.49
What was life
like for you in prison?
00:17:57.52\00:18:00.87
Prison to me was
it was very scary.
00:18:00.90\00:18:04.72
I'd always been able to
talk my way out of trouble
00:18:04.75\00:18:07.13
whether it was, in
jail, I could get bailed out
00:18:07.16\00:18:10.70
or I could leave to
another city or I could run,
00:18:10.73\00:18:13.56
I didn't have to deal
with my own consequences
00:18:13.59\00:18:16.64
'cause I had been
doing crime for so long
00:18:16.67\00:18:19.09
so when that door finally
shut and here I'm in prison,
00:18:19.12\00:18:23.54
I cried out to God
and I cried out to God
00:18:23.57\00:18:25.80
every day and since then,
every day even till this day,
00:18:25.83\00:18:30.27
I've cried out to God.
00:18:30.30\00:18:31.38
Amen. How long
were you in prison?
00:18:31.41\00:18:34.07
I had a six and a
half year sentence
00:18:34.10\00:18:35.64
and in the state of
Arizona, you'll have to do 85%
00:18:35.67\00:18:37.91
so I did about five years
three months and some change
00:18:37.94\00:18:41.61
but that was
plenty long enough for me.
00:18:41.64\00:18:44.24
It's what it took, you know.
00:18:44.27\00:18:45.97
A lot of people say, "Well,
yeah, God wants me in prison"
00:18:46.00\00:18:48.36
but God doesn't
really want us in prison.
00:18:48.39\00:18:51.22
He has a purpose and a
meaning for us outside of prison
00:18:51.25\00:18:54.23
but it was my consequences
that ended myself up in prison.
00:18:54.26\00:18:58.24
And when I first got there,
I tried blaming my parents,
00:18:58.27\00:19:01.91
my sister, thinking
how did I end up here?
00:19:01.94\00:19:04.38
There's had to been
something that they did to me
00:19:04.41\00:19:06.36
when I was
young, that didn't work.
00:19:06.39\00:19:08.65
I tried blaming
and my second wife
00:19:08.68\00:19:11.10
'cause I had got married
just before I went to prison,
00:19:11.13\00:19:13.32
tried blaming
her, that didn't work.
00:19:13.35\00:19:15.58
I tried blaming all my friends
that used to bring me dope,
00:19:15.61\00:19:18.63
that didn't work and
then, so finally, I blamed God
00:19:18.66\00:19:21.15
and I kicked that
around for a while
00:19:21.18\00:19:23.17
but that didn't work either.
00:19:23.20\00:19:24.24
And it wasn't until I actually
00:19:24.27\00:19:25.91
put the blame where it belonged,
00:19:25.94\00:19:27.12
was on me and my choices
00:19:27.15\00:19:28.72
and that's when my
recovery started taking off.
00:19:28.75\00:19:31.72
You know, David,
it's so interesting
00:19:31.75\00:19:34.72
that many times
we do want to blame
00:19:34.75\00:19:37.22
someone else for our choices...
00:19:37.25\00:19:38.54
Absolutely.
00:19:38.57\00:19:39.62
But all of our
choices have consequences.
00:19:39.65\00:19:41.64
Mm-hmm.
00:19:41.67\00:19:42.70
And God tells us to
choose, make a choice,
00:19:42.73\00:19:46.21
but He wants us to choose
Him and He wants us to choose
00:19:46.24\00:19:49.10
the better way,
the more abundant way
00:19:49.13\00:19:51.20
and we contend to
choose the dark side
00:19:51.23\00:19:54.26
and when we do,
there are consequences.
00:19:54.29\00:19:56.87
Always. And it's always a trap.
00:19:56.90\00:19:59.36
It's like there's this trap
that Satan has for each of us
00:19:59.39\00:20:03.89
so he identifies our weaknesses,
00:20:03.92\00:20:06.25
you say you have an
addictive personality.
00:20:06.28\00:20:08.44
So he knows how to
throw things your way.
00:20:08.47\00:20:11.89
Thankfully, we
have the Holy Spirit
00:20:11.92\00:20:14.24
to help us to not
make the wrong choice.
00:20:14.27\00:20:17.26
Amen.
00:20:17.29\00:20:18.34
So what did you do
while you were in prison?
00:20:18.37\00:20:21.17
Did you get
involved in ministries?
00:20:21.20\00:20:23.14
What did you do?
00:20:23.17\00:20:24.22
Well, I went to every
recovery meeting that I could
00:20:24.25\00:20:26.99
because I didn't want
to come back to prison
00:20:27.02\00:20:29.94
and I had a model
that I kept telling myself,
00:20:29.97\00:20:32.51
live your life today
00:20:32.54\00:20:33.69
how I want to
live it when I get out
00:20:33.72\00:20:35.55
because if I
don't live it everyday
00:20:35.58\00:20:37.35
how I want to live
later, I'm not gonna do that.
00:20:37.38\00:20:39.94
And so I would go
to all church services
00:20:39.97\00:20:42.82
that I could go
to and at that time,
00:20:42.85\00:20:44.20
we didn't have any
Adventist church services
00:20:44.23\00:20:47.19
coming in there,
but I went to them all,
00:20:47.22\00:20:48.98
I went to recovery meetings
00:20:49.01\00:20:50.58
and I actually started doing
00:20:50.61\00:20:53.28
Amazing Facts Bible
studies with the guys.
00:20:53.31\00:20:55.13
I had as many as 30 guys doing
00:20:55.16\00:20:57.13
Amazing Facts
Bible studies and--
00:20:57.16\00:20:59.16
So you started running
Bible studies in prison?
00:20:59.19\00:21:02.00
Mm-hmm, and we actually,
00:21:02.03\00:21:03.18
and we started a 12-step program
00:21:03.21\00:21:04.88
just with the
inmates in there also
00:21:04.91\00:21:06.91
and the Bible
studies were awesome
00:21:06.94\00:21:09.26
because I would have
guys come up to me go,
00:21:09.29\00:21:11.04
"Hey, the dead really are dead."
00:21:11.07\00:21:13.14
And, "Hey,
Saturday is the Sabbath."
00:21:13.17\00:21:15.79
And it was like,
"Yeah, you're right."
00:21:15.82\00:21:17.09
And they were just so excited.
00:21:17.12\00:21:19.46
And oh, by the way,
today is a special day.
00:21:19.49\00:21:22.88
Today is my
16th year anniversary
00:21:22.91\00:21:26.70
for being clean and sober and--
00:21:26.73\00:21:29.04
Look at how good
God is. He is good.
00:21:29.07\00:21:31.24
He worked that out so
I could be here today.
00:21:31.27\00:21:32.72
Isn't that
amazing? That is so amazing.
00:21:32.75\00:21:35.18
You and your
wife are celebrating
00:21:35.21\00:21:37.97
16 years today, right?
00:21:38.00\00:21:40.43
Yep. Praise God
for His deliverance.
00:21:40.46\00:21:44.69
Absolutely. For His deliverance.
00:21:44.72\00:21:47.06
So you're in prison,
00:21:47.09\00:21:49.24
you're helping other
inmates to find Jesus
00:21:49.27\00:21:53.31
and so doing your
walk is getting stronger.
00:21:53.34\00:21:56.80
Oh, absolutely.
00:21:56.83\00:21:58.30
And if you ever have
problems, depression or whatever
00:21:58.33\00:22:01.85
and you want to get out of that,
00:22:01.88\00:22:03.58
one of the
Adventist elders said,
00:22:03.61\00:22:05.62
started coming out
and visiting me from Yuma,
00:22:05.65\00:22:08.61
he would say, "Go
help somebody else.
00:22:08.64\00:22:11.49
Get out of yourself,
go help somebody else."
00:22:11.52\00:22:12.60
Right.
00:22:12.63\00:22:13.66
"Do something
nice for somebody else"
00:22:13.69\00:22:15.03
and the next thing you
know you're not worried,
00:22:15.06\00:22:16.54
not thinking about yourself,
00:22:16.57\00:22:17.81
you're thinking
about that other person.
00:22:17.84\00:22:19.21
That is really true. Yeah.
00:22:19.24\00:22:21.25
And not only by
helping them, are you--
00:22:21.28\00:22:25.31
you're really
helping that person
00:22:25.34\00:22:26.88
but you really
watering your spirit as well.
00:22:26.91\00:22:30.80
Your faith gets
stronger because you're helping
00:22:30.83\00:22:32.96
somebody else to find the Lord
00:22:32.99\00:22:36.09
and it just
means so much to you.
00:22:36.12\00:22:38.71
Oh, absolutely.
00:22:38.74\00:22:39.77
Which just makes
all the difference.
00:22:39.80\00:22:40.92
Absolutely.
00:22:40.95\00:22:41.98
So how did you get out
00:22:42.01\00:22:43.66
and what did you
do when you got out?
00:22:43.69\00:22:45.15
Well, when I was
finally released,
00:22:45.18\00:22:47.64
I was released to my mother's
00:22:47.67\00:22:49.54
and she had
introduced me to this girl
00:22:49.57\00:22:53.70
that knew an
inmate that was my cellie
00:22:53.73\00:22:56.22
and she was
giving Bible studies too
00:22:56.25\00:22:58.18
and she met him at church
00:22:58.21\00:23:00.33
and she had a
homeless ministry going on,
00:23:00.36\00:23:02.75
feeding the homeless
and we'd get anywhere
00:23:02.78\00:23:04.75
from a 100-125 people
every Sabbath afternoon
00:23:04.78\00:23:08.30
so I started help in doing that.
00:23:08.33\00:23:10.39
And then, I helped her start,
00:23:10.42\00:23:13.33
we were managing halfway houses,
00:23:13.36\00:23:14.80
an Adventist halfway
house after that and then,
00:23:14.83\00:23:17.67
wasn't very long
after that we got married
00:23:17.70\00:23:20.39
and... to a wonderful woman.
00:23:20.42\00:23:23.68
She helps keep me on track
00:23:23.71\00:23:25.03
'cause I have
tendencies to want to slip back
00:23:25.06\00:23:27.08
to that social wasp
that I am but wonderful woman
00:23:27.11\00:23:33.42
and the
interesting thing about my wife
00:23:33.45\00:23:36.07
now is that God
picked her for me.
00:23:36.10\00:23:38.98
I picked my other
wives and I'm not saying
00:23:39.01\00:23:40.57
anything bad about them,
I'm just saying that God,
00:23:40.60\00:23:42.87
I included God in this
decision and when you do that,
00:23:42.90\00:23:46.41
oh, man, He opens up doors
of blessings that you just,
00:23:46.44\00:23:49.75
you don't even
know that are out there.
00:23:49.78\00:23:51.27
That is so, so
true and so great.
00:23:51.30\00:23:54.40
You guys can
minister together...
00:23:54.43\00:23:56.18
Mm-hmm.
00:23:56.21\00:23:57.24
And that is such
a wonderful thing
00:23:57.27\00:23:59.04
'cause she has some things
00:23:59.07\00:24:00.74
that she's dealt
with in her past,
00:24:00.77\00:24:02.48
you have things
that you've dealt with
00:24:02.51\00:24:04.36
and God has
delivered both of you
00:24:04.39\00:24:06.80
and you've been walking
in the light for 16 years,
00:24:06.83\00:24:09.99
which doesn't mean, you know,
00:24:10.02\00:24:11.73
we never want
viewers to think that
00:24:11.76\00:24:13.99
just because you're
walking with God now,
00:24:14.02\00:24:16.50
you never make mistakes.
00:24:16.53\00:24:18.00
Everybody make
mistakes but we have a Savior.
00:24:18.03\00:24:20.80
When we sin, we have an advocate
00:24:20.83\00:24:22.63
with the Father,
Jesus Christ the Righteous.
00:24:22.66\00:24:23.90
Oh, no.
00:24:23.93\00:24:24.96
My wife thinks I'm a
knucklehead most of time
00:24:24.99\00:24:26.50
but she puts up with me.
00:24:26.53\00:24:28.34
She keeps praying for
me, she keeps me in line.
00:24:28.37\00:24:30.98
What would you
have our viewers to know
00:24:31.01\00:24:33.06
about what God
can do in your life?
00:24:33.09\00:24:37.42
If I was to say
something to a viewer
00:24:37.45\00:24:39.52
that's listening right now--
00:24:39.55\00:24:40.60
Speak to the camera.
00:24:40.63\00:24:41.84
It would be that no matter
how dark your world has become
00:24:41.87\00:24:46.24
because of the
choices you've made,
00:24:46.27\00:24:48.04
God is in the
business of taking darkness
00:24:48.07\00:24:50.44
and making it into light.
00:24:50.47\00:24:52.26
It doesn't matter how
much crime you've done,
00:24:52.29\00:24:54.11
it doesn't matter
how much drugs or alcohol
00:24:54.14\00:24:57.41
or whatever
decisions you've made
00:24:57.44\00:24:59.83
and it doesn't even
have to go to that extreme.
00:24:59.86\00:25:02.59
If you're
suffering with depression,
00:25:02.62\00:25:03.89
if you're
suffering with mental issues,
00:25:03.92\00:25:06.96
if you're suffering with--
wanting to commit suicide,
00:25:06.99\00:25:09.97
God can take that
darkness and turn it into light.
00:25:10.00\00:25:13.36
And I learned
that so well because
00:25:13.39\00:25:15.55
that's what he did in my life.
00:25:15.58\00:25:17.71
Praise the Lord, brother.
00:25:17.74\00:25:19.40
This is really,
really been a blessing.
00:25:19.43\00:25:22.38
Our folks need to know
00:25:22.41\00:25:24.45
that God is still in
the deliverance business.
00:25:24.48\00:25:27.82
That's what He does best.
00:25:27.85\00:25:28.89
What do you want to
do with your ministry?
00:25:28.92\00:25:30.90
Where do you see it going?
00:25:30.93\00:25:32.52
Well, we do jail
ministries right now
00:25:32.55\00:25:35.52
and in the state of
Arizona, you weren't--
00:25:35.55\00:25:37.82
as an ex-felon, I wasn't allowed
00:25:37.85\00:25:39.43
to get back into the prisons
00:25:39.46\00:25:41.33
but they started
saying that we can,
00:25:41.36\00:25:43.09
so we filled
out our applications
00:25:43.12\00:25:45.06
but because of the
methamphetamine charges
00:25:45.09\00:25:47.52
that I had, I said I
can't come into the state jails.
00:25:47.55\00:25:51.28
But they're
reviewing my case again,
00:25:51.31\00:25:54.81
so I need
everybody to pray for me
00:25:54.84\00:25:56.75
that-- they accepted
Denise but they turned me down
00:25:56.78\00:25:59.83
but hopefully, we'll be
able to get into the prisons,
00:25:59.86\00:26:02.53
we want to start a halfway house
00:26:02.56\00:26:05.17
at the community center
where my wife is director of
00:26:05.20\00:26:08.34
and we just want
to keep going in,
00:26:08.37\00:26:10.46
in the jail ministry
and prison ministries.
00:26:10.49\00:26:13.09
It is so great that you and
Denise can minister together.
00:26:13.12\00:26:16.82
How has that
changed your spiritual life?
00:26:16.85\00:26:20.15
Oh, it's
awesome having a partner
00:26:20.18\00:26:22.19
that's on the same page with you
00:26:22.22\00:26:23.96
and my wife is
really a dynamic speaker
00:26:23.99\00:26:27.56
and when we go into the jails,
00:26:27.59\00:26:29.69
we just have such an
awesome time with the guys.
00:26:29.72\00:26:32.21
They're not just
inmates, they're brothers to us
00:26:32.24\00:26:34.80
and we go in,
we laugh with them,
00:26:34.83\00:26:37.02
we cry with them,
we worship together,
00:26:37.05\00:26:39.34
we sing, we read the Bible
00:26:39.37\00:26:40.93
and they just--
they just love us
00:26:40.96\00:26:44.39
and today, someone called
me today as a matter of fact
00:26:44.42\00:26:47.75
and just wanted to let me
know that he had gotten out
00:26:47.78\00:26:50.23
and we'd
already knew that he had
00:26:50.26\00:26:51.52
but he want to
know when church was
00:26:51.55\00:26:53.65
so he's hoping he can
make it to church this Sabbath.
00:26:53.68\00:26:56.56
And that's what
really makes us excited
00:26:56.59\00:26:59.24
when they start to
coming to church with us.
00:26:59.27\00:27:00.93
Absolutely, that's what
it's all about, isn't it?
00:27:00.96\00:27:02.70
Yes.
00:27:02.73\00:27:03.76
You know, it makes the
whole thing just so worthwhile.
00:27:03.79\00:27:07.24
You know, how many people
are coming to your meetings?
00:27:07.27\00:27:11.40
Well, to the church
meeting or inside the jails?
00:27:11.43\00:27:14.85
We get an average of 20,
00:27:14.88\00:27:16.55
sometimes
there's been 30 or more
00:27:16.58\00:27:18.43
but they usually let
out about 20 at a time
00:27:18.46\00:27:20.70
and that's Sabbath
afternoon, Sundays and Mondays.
00:27:20.73\00:27:24.32
We're so grateful for all
00:27:24.35\00:27:25.86
that you and Denise are doing
on the frontlines in this--
00:27:25.89\00:27:29.14
the prison
ministry is so, so important
00:27:29.17\00:27:32.58
because sometimes
our guys feel like,
00:27:32.61\00:27:35.44
and women feel like
nobody's thinking of them,
00:27:35.47\00:27:38.00
they're forgotten.
00:27:38.03\00:27:39.32
But we know that God
has not forgotten them
00:27:39.35\00:27:41.97
and He's sent wonderful workers
00:27:42.00\00:27:43.45
like you and Denise.
00:27:43.48\00:27:44.51
So thank you so
much for being here.
00:27:44.54\00:27:45.71
Thank you.
00:27:45.74\00:27:47.40
And thank you for tuning in.
00:27:47.43\00:27:49.76
You know, it is really
important that you pray
00:27:49.79\00:27:53.19
for people like Denise and David
00:27:53.22\00:27:55.65
that are really
working hard for the Lord.
00:27:55.68\00:27:58.63
Well, that's the end
of our program for today.
00:27:58.66\00:28:00.43
Thanks so much for
tuning in and join us next time
00:28:00.46\00:28:02.99
'cause it wouldn't
be the same without you.
00:28:03.02\00:28:05.08