If you're serious about
having a successful child...
00:00:01.10\00:00:03.67
you won't want to
miss this Program...
00:00:03.70\00:00:05.67
My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
00:00:05.70\00:00:08.40
Urban Report...
00:00:08.44\00:00:09.70
Hello, and
welcome to Urban Report...
00:00:31.93\00:00:34.50
My guest today is
Paul Tough author of
00:00:34.56\00:00:37.20
"How Children
Succeed" and Speaker...
00:00:37.23\00:00:39.93
Welcome to Urban
Report... Paul...
00:00:39.97\00:00:42.17
Thank you... great to be here...
00:00:42.20\00:00:44.27
Yeah... it's so
good to have you here...
00:00:44.31\00:00:45.87
I'm so glad that you
could take the time out
00:00:45.91\00:00:47.41
to be with us today...
00:00:47.44\00:00:49.21
Yeah, thrilled to be
here thanks for inviting me...
00:00:49.24\00:00:51.61
Oh, sure, sure... so, I
have to tell our viewers
00:00:51.65\00:00:54.65
that a few months
ago, I was in an airport
00:00:54.68\00:00:57.62
and I was just browsing
through the book section
00:00:57.65\00:01:01.56
and I came across this
book "How Children Succeed"
00:01:01.59\00:01:05.46
and I thought...
"Hmmm... that sounds great"
00:01:05.49\00:01:07.60
because I'm always
trying to find some things
00:01:07.60\00:01:09.60
to share with our viewers...
on tips and strategies
00:01:09.63\00:01:12.10
to help our kids
in the inner cities...
00:01:12.13\00:01:14.47
to be more successful...
so, I looked at this book
00:01:14.50\00:01:17.84
and I thought, "Wow,
this looks great... "
00:01:17.87\00:01:20.71
and I took it home
well, I bought it, of course,
00:01:20.74\00:01:23.88
this is a Christian
Network... we don't want people
00:01:23.91\00:01:27.02
to think that I
just took it home...
00:01:27.05\00:01:28.48
I bought it... and,
Paul, this book is so
00:01:28.52\00:01:33.42
powerful... the tips
and strategies that you have
00:01:33.46\00:01:37.56
and the Science
and the information
00:01:37.59\00:01:39.69
and it's not boring...
you know, it's not so heavy
00:01:39.73\00:01:42.76
that a person can't read
it and digest what's in it...
00:01:42.80\00:01:45.80
I want to thank you
for writing this book
00:01:45.83\00:01:48.90
and all that you've done to
help children in the inner city,
00:01:48.94\00:01:53.17
so, let's talk
a little bit first
00:01:53.21\00:01:55.98
about your background
00:01:56.01\00:01:57.55
tell us a little bit about
you and where you come from...
00:01:57.58\00:02:00.25
Sure, I'm a journalist,
I grew up in Canada...
00:02:00.28\00:02:03.82
but have lived in the
United States for a long time
00:02:03.85\00:02:07.39
since College and I
have mostly been an Editor
00:02:07.42\00:02:10.33
with magazines
and about 10 years ago
00:02:10.36\00:02:12.19
I started writing...
first off, I started writing
00:02:12.23\00:02:15.20
magazine articles...
then I wrote an article
00:02:15.23\00:02:17.17
about a man
named Geoffrey Canada
00:02:17.20\00:02:18.63
who's the Head of
Harlem Children Zone...
00:02:18.67\00:02:20.67
and the book that
I wrote about him...
00:02:20.70\00:02:23.51
"Whatever it
Takes" came out in 2008
00:02:23.54\00:02:25.91
and then after
that book was done
00:02:25.94\00:02:28.24
I started working on this
one on "How Children Succeed"
00:02:28.28\00:02:31.01
so these are the two books
that I've written... so far...
00:02:31.05\00:02:33.78
And why are you interested
in the inner city children?
00:02:33.82\00:02:36.72
Well, I think that I lived
for a long time in New York City
00:02:36.75\00:02:42.46
and I think, you can't
live anywhere in New York City
00:02:42.49\00:02:45.63
without understanding that
the inequities and the gaps
00:02:45.66\00:02:48.73
in our big cities right now
are really significant problems
00:02:48.76\00:02:51.80
and they are
significant problems
00:02:51.83\00:02:53.77
I think, no
matter where you live...
00:02:53.80\00:02:55.77
but I didn't really get
tuned in to the importance of
00:02:55.80\00:02:59.91
these questions until I started
writing about Geoffrey Canada
00:02:59.94\00:03:02.91
and the Harlem
Children's Zone which he runs
00:03:02.94\00:03:05.28
is... as I'm guessing a
lot of your viewers will know,
00:03:05.31\00:03:08.25
is this 97th Block neighborhood
in Central Harlem...
00:03:08.28\00:03:10.85
what Geoff and
his team are doing
00:03:10.89\00:03:14.76
is trying to help children
succeed in that neighborhood
00:03:14.79\00:03:18.43
in all sorts of
ways... so they run schools
00:03:18.46\00:03:20.13
but they're also combining
those educational supports
00:03:20.16\00:03:23.26
with social supports
and psychological supports
00:03:23.30\00:03:25.73
and emotional supports...
and working with him...
00:03:25.77\00:03:28.37
writing about him...
really made me think about
00:03:28.40\00:03:31.71
the questions of what it
takes to help every child
00:03:31.74\00:03:34.71
in the United States succeed,
and I really don't think
00:03:34.74\00:03:37.65
there's any more
important question
00:03:37.68\00:03:39.58
when you think about...
the sort of questions of
00:03:39.61\00:03:43.39
social justice in our society
00:03:43.42\00:03:44.75
and also the economic
health of the United States
00:03:44.79\00:03:46.96
if we want to
succeed in the long term...
00:03:46.99\00:03:48.86
these are questions we
really need to solve...
00:03:48.89\00:03:51.16
Absolutely... you know, I was in
00:03:51.19\00:03:53.66
New York not too long
ago and I stopped by the
00:03:53.70\00:03:56.97
Harlem Children's Zone
because I'd heard so much about
00:03:57.00\00:03:59.87
it and I wanted to
kind of see first hand
00:03:59.90\00:04:02.74
what it was all
about... I love the idea...
00:04:02.77\00:04:05.71
as you mentioned...
it's just not an academic
00:04:05.74\00:04:08.61
environment... it's also...
00:04:08.64\00:04:10.51
it's a holistic
kind of environment
00:04:10.55\00:04:12.48
where there's a lot
of parental involvement
00:04:12.51\00:04:14.52
in fact, your
child can't go there
00:04:14.55\00:04:16.89
from what I understand
00:04:16.92\00:04:18.02
unless the parent is
going to be involved as well...
00:04:18.05\00:04:21.16
it that correct?
They don't have that kind
00:04:21.19\00:04:24.09
of restriction because
they certainly want parental
00:04:24.13\00:04:26.76
involvement... but
they also want to serve
00:04:26.80\00:04:28.66
children whose parents
00:04:28.70\00:04:30.17
might not be
willing to be involved...
00:04:30.20\00:04:32.73
they feel like...
those kids need more help
00:04:32.77\00:04:35.27
not less help... in a
lot of circumstances...
00:04:35.30\00:04:38.17
Ah... so they do allow
the children of parents
00:04:38.21\00:04:40.98
who are not that involved
or don't want to be involved
00:04:41.01\00:04:43.65
or whatever... to
attend the School...
00:04:43.68\00:04:45.81
They do... but they do
also have a lot of Programs
00:04:45.85\00:04:49.48
to try to engage
and involve parents
00:04:49.52\00:04:52.05
and I think...
one of the most ones
00:04:52.09\00:04:54.19
is something they
call "Baby College"
00:04:54.22\00:04:56.29
which is this 9- week Program
00:04:56.32\00:04:58.43
for new parents...
expecting parents...
00:04:58.46\00:05:01.93
parents of children up to
age 5, that, over the course of
00:05:01.96\00:05:06.17
several weeks tries
to... give them the sort of
00:05:06.20\00:05:08.54
information and support
that I think... every parent
00:05:08.57\00:05:11.34
is really looking
for... in terms of
00:05:11.37\00:05:12.74
how to deal with
issues of disciplining them
00:05:12.77\00:05:15.14
brain development...
safety in the home...
00:05:15.18\00:05:17.48
and that
Program... especially...
00:05:17.51\00:05:19.41
since it starts sometimes
with parents of infants
00:05:19.45\00:05:22.22
it really engages
parents for the long haul...
00:05:22.25\00:05:24.62
so that... by the time
their kids get to school...
00:05:24.65\00:05:26.96
they're tightly woven in
with the Harlem Children's Zone
00:05:26.99\00:05:30.03
that is so... incredible...
I so would love to see
00:05:30.06\00:05:34.46
more schools like the
Harlem Children's Zone
00:05:34.50\00:05:37.90
around the Country...
because as you know, I'm sure,
00:05:37.93\00:05:41.34
there's such a misconception
about inner-city kids
00:05:41.37\00:05:44.77
"Oh, they can't
learn" or "they're slow"
00:05:44.81\00:05:46.88
or whatever...
but this School...
00:05:46.91\00:05:49.18
and others like it... really...
00:05:49.21\00:05:51.41
these schools show that
these children can learn
00:05:51.45\00:05:54.15
and they can be successful...
but they have to have
00:05:54.18\00:05:56.82
the support that's necessary...
00:05:56.85\00:05:58.65
Yeah... I think it's
such an important message
00:05:58.69\00:06:00.99
and there are...
and it's a good thing
00:06:01.02\00:06:02.72
that there are now
a lot of communities
00:06:02.76\00:06:04.36
a lot of schools
around the Country
00:06:04.39\00:06:05.89
that are trying to
replicate it and emulate
00:06:05.93\00:06:07.76
what the Harlem
Children's Zone is doing...
00:06:07.83\00:06:09.86
but I think you're
right... it's that message
00:06:09.90\00:06:12.03
that, absolutely,
these children can succeed...
00:06:12.07\00:06:14.14
even when they come from
very difficult circumstances...
00:06:14.17\00:06:16.27
but they need more
help than other children...
00:06:16.30\00:06:18.94
and that help, I
think, ideally, should come...
00:06:18.97\00:06:21.54
just not in the classroom
but from the whole Community
00:06:21.58\00:06:23.88
it has to go... well beyond
the walls of the school...
00:06:23.91\00:06:26.18
Absolutely... absolutely...
so, tell us then...
00:06:26.21\00:06:30.69
how did writing that
story impact and influence
00:06:30.72\00:06:35.09
your writing...
"How Children Succeed"
00:06:35.12\00:06:36.89
It's a great question...
00:06:36.93\00:06:38.93
so it took 5 years to report
00:06:38.96\00:06:40.90
and write that first book...
and when I got to the end...
00:06:40.93\00:06:43.06
even after all that reporting...
I felt like I still had some
00:06:43.10\00:06:46.03
big questions about...
how children succeed...
00:06:46.07\00:06:49.30
about why some
children can seem to come
00:06:49.34\00:06:51.64
from similar
backgrounds from other children
00:06:51.67\00:06:53.91
and that some will succeed
and others will lose their way
00:06:53.94\00:06:58.21
and in the process
of doing that first book
00:06:58.25\00:07:00.78
I've connected with a lot
of Scientists and Researchers,
00:07:00.82\00:07:04.39
Economists and Neuroscientists
and Psychologists
00:07:04.42\00:07:07.56
and as I started talking to
them as that book was coming out
00:07:07.59\00:07:11.46
I realized that
there was more to the story
00:07:11.49\00:07:13.66
than I was able to get
in whatever it takes...
00:07:13.70\00:07:15.83
and a big part of
the idea that went into
00:07:15.86\00:07:18.77
"How Children Succeed"
is there's a difference
00:07:18.80\00:07:21.50
in different kinds of
skills that children develop
00:07:21.54\00:07:24.27
as they grow...
Economists divide these skills
00:07:24.31\00:07:26.78
into what they
call... cognitive skills and
00:07:26.81\00:07:29.24
non-cognitive skills
00:07:29.28\00:07:30.38
but really it's
about the kind of skills
00:07:30.41\00:07:32.55
that got measured on
standardized tests...
00:07:32.58\00:07:35.12
your IQ and
Reading and Math abilities
00:07:35.15\00:07:37.62
all of which are very
important but which, I think,
00:07:37.65\00:07:40.26
we've overly emphasized
in some of our educational
00:07:40.29\00:07:42.82
projects as of the
couple of decades...
00:07:42.86\00:07:46.03
and on the other side we
have non-cognitive skills
00:07:46.06\00:07:49.76
character strengths... things
like grit and perseverance
00:07:49.80\00:07:53.37
curiosity,
optimism, self-control,
00:07:53.40\00:07:56.24
and then those skills...
these researchers were finding
00:07:56.27\00:07:59.64
turned out to be
extremely important
00:07:59.67\00:08:02.18
in terms of which children
succeed and which ones don't...
00:08:02.21\00:08:04.71
but the way to teach them...
the way to develop them...
00:08:04.75\00:08:07.22
in our children...
is very different...
00:08:07.25\00:08:09.68
you can't use the
same sort of strategies
00:08:09.72\00:08:11.89
that worked to teach
reading and math skills
00:08:11.92\00:08:14.16
if you want to help
children develop their grit,
00:08:14.19\00:08:16.32
perseverance and curiosity,
it's a very different process...
00:08:16.36\00:08:18.89
What you said...
is so rich because...
00:08:18.93\00:08:21.86
up until the
time I read your book
00:08:21.90\00:08:24.57
I subscribed too...
00:08:24.60\00:08:26.74
to that whole
cognitive hypothesis
00:08:26.77\00:08:28.84
that you mentioned...
it's the idea that we need to
00:08:28.87\00:08:32.67
give our inner-city kids more...
00:08:32.71\00:08:35.41
they need to
start reading earlier
00:08:35.44\00:08:38.08
they need to be
exposed to words earlier...
00:08:38.11\00:08:41.68
we need more verbal
interaction with them...
00:08:41.72\00:08:45.22
and yet... what
you're saying is that
00:08:45.25\00:08:48.42
this is important... but
and correct me if I'm wrong
00:08:48.46\00:08:52.63
this is important but
also on the other side
00:08:52.66\00:08:56.16
there are some non-cognitive
kinds of skills that
00:08:56.20\00:09:00.77
we as parents can
teach our children...
00:09:00.80\00:09:03.91
that they need to
know... to be successful...
00:09:03.94\00:09:06.74
it's just not about
cognition... correct?
00:09:06.78\00:09:09.48
Absolutely... and I appreciate
your emphasizing that...
00:09:09.51\00:09:13.01
it's not that we're
saying... don't worry about your
00:09:13.05\00:09:16.48
children's
reading and math ability
00:09:16.52\00:09:18.02
it's just that...
that alone is not enough
00:09:18.05\00:09:20.19
and I think... one of
the interesting things
00:09:20.22\00:09:22.29
that we're finding...
and that these researchers
00:09:22.32\00:09:23.96
are finding... is
some of the things
00:09:23.99\00:09:25.59
that the parents are
sometimes encouraged to do
00:09:25.63\00:09:28.03
to help develop... say
their children's verbal ability
00:09:28.06\00:09:31.37
things like having
more conversations...
00:09:31.40\00:09:33.27
one-on-one
conversations with your kids
00:09:33.30\00:09:35.24
reading aloud to
them every night...
00:09:35.27\00:09:37.14
those things certainly
help with vocabulary development
00:09:37.17\00:09:39.77
but part of the reason I
think why that's so important
00:09:39.81\00:09:42.34
because that they
encourage a connection...
00:09:42.38\00:09:44.48
and closeness between
a parent and a child...
00:09:44.51\00:09:47.08
just the experience of
sitting with your child
00:09:47.12\00:09:49.68
every night and
reading them a book or two
00:09:49.72\00:09:51.92
what the kids are
getting out of that
00:09:51.95\00:09:54.12
the neuroscientists now tell us
00:09:54.16\00:09:55.89
is not just
vocabulary development
00:09:55.92\00:09:57.59
it's the warmth of
sitting with the parent
00:09:57.63\00:09:59.83
or another
caregiver and having you know,
00:09:59.86\00:10:01.76
having their
parent's arm around them
00:10:01.80\00:10:04.00
and just speaking
in those quiet voices
00:10:04.03\00:10:06.20
all of those things act
as an important antidote
00:10:06.23\00:10:11.04
to a lot of the
stresses of daily life...
00:10:11.07\00:10:13.51
especially for kids, I
think, who are growing up
00:10:13.54\00:10:15.21
in difficult circumstances
00:10:15.24\00:10:16.44
when there are a
lot of stresses...
00:10:16.48\00:10:17.78
but one of the
big messages for me
00:10:17.81\00:10:19.55
is the neuroscience
that I read about in the book
00:10:19.58\00:10:22.02
is that... parents can
help to protect their kids
00:10:22.05\00:10:24.45
from a lot of the
pressures of daily life
00:10:24.49\00:10:27.19
How so... how so...?
00:10:27.22\00:10:29.49
Well, by forming a
kind of connection with them
00:10:29.52\00:10:32.09
by helping them
learn how to manage stress
00:10:32.13\00:10:34.10
there's one
neuroscientist that I talked to
00:10:34.13\00:10:35.76
said that... "One of
the most important things
00:10:35.80\00:10:37.43
that parents can
do for their kids
00:10:37.47\00:10:38.83
is in how they help
them deal with stress... "
00:10:38.87\00:10:42.04
and there are some parents...
and we all know these parents
00:10:42.07\00:10:45.37
who really don't help
their kids to relieve stress
00:10:45.41\00:10:47.98
in fact they make
their lives more stressful...
00:10:48.01\00:10:50.18
they add more stress
to their children's lives
00:10:50.21\00:10:52.21
whether that's by putting
pressure on them to succeed
00:10:52.25\00:10:54.78
or by yelling or
having a chaotic home
00:10:54.82\00:10:57.85
but then there are other
parents I think every parent
00:10:57.89\00:11:01.26
aspires to be like that...
who really help their kids
00:11:01.29\00:11:04.63
learn how to deal
with stressful situations
00:11:04.66\00:11:06.66
so, when... something happens...
00:11:06.70\00:11:08.86
when they fall down or
get stressed out early on
00:11:08.90\00:11:11.30
they help to comfort
them and to calm them down...
00:11:11.33\00:11:13.67
and then... as
their kids get older...
00:11:13.70\00:11:15.70
you know, it's not
justified coddling them
00:11:15.74\00:11:17.67
and comforting them...
it's also about helping them
00:11:17.71\00:11:20.28
learn that they can deal
with stressful situations
00:11:20.31\00:11:22.48
on their own... you
know, that when they fall down,
00:11:22.51\00:11:24.68
they can help
themselves back up...
00:11:24.71\00:11:26.21
they can deal with
problems, and as kids get older
00:11:26.25\00:11:28.65
I think the job of
parents in terms of stress
00:11:28.68\00:11:31.55
is to help your children
learn that they can deal with
00:11:31.59\00:11:34.22
increasingly
difficult problems you know,
00:11:34.26\00:11:36.39
to push them a little
bit... still supporting them
00:11:36.42\00:11:38.43
but to push them a little...
Absolutely... and you have to
00:11:38.46\00:11:40.96
kind of walk that
line of knowing how far
00:11:40.96\00:11:45.17
to push and yet...
being there to support them...
00:11:45.20\00:11:48.97
as well... and I think
that that comes with experience
00:11:49.00\00:11:52.44
and time and prayer and
reading and all of that...
00:11:52.47\00:11:55.81
I think, you kind of learn
that, but the important thing is
00:11:55.84\00:11:59.65
to help them... to deal
with the stressful situation...
00:11:59.68\00:12:03.08
one of the things that you
talked about... in the book
00:12:03.12\00:12:06.45
were the ACEs or
Adverse Childhood Experiences
00:12:06.49\00:12:09.89
and I thought this was
very, very deep because
00:12:09.92\00:12:13.33
so often... in
a lot of our homes
00:12:13.36\00:12:16.83
there's such
chaos and such stress
00:12:16.87\00:12:20.30
that the children are
just tossed and turned
00:12:20.34\00:12:23.91
with all these
chaotic experiences...
00:12:23.94\00:12:26.14
can you talk a little
bit about the ACEs and how
00:12:26.17\00:12:29.74
those things impact the children
and their outcomes success-wise
00:12:29.78\00:12:34.78
Sure... so the Adverse
Childhood Experience Study
00:12:34.82\00:12:38.62
was the study
done about 20 years ago
00:12:38.65\00:12:40.46
by a couple of doctors
00:12:40.49\00:12:41.99
they took a
large group of adults
00:12:42.02\00:12:44.46
and then asked them
questions about stressful,
00:12:44.49\00:12:47.23
traumatic events
they've had in childhood...
00:12:47.23\00:12:49.56
and these were
pretty big ones things like
00:12:49.60\00:12:51.87
having parents split up...
having someone in your family
00:12:51.90\00:12:55.40
who was addicted
to drugs or alcohol...
00:12:55.44\00:12:57.64
someone in the family
who was incarcerated...
00:12:57.67\00:12:59.74
being abused...
sexually or physically
00:12:59.77\00:13:01.88
or neglected as a
child, you know...
00:13:01.91\00:13:03.95
some pretty bad things...
that can happen to kids...
00:13:03.98\00:13:05.98
and what they found was that...
00:13:06.01\00:13:07.65
the number of those experiences
that these adults had had
00:13:07.68\00:13:12.12
as children...
had a direct impact
00:13:12.15\00:13:14.56
on their physical
health... so that people who had
00:13:14.59\00:13:17.73
experienced more of
these adverse experiences
00:13:17.76\00:13:20.00
in childhood...
they had cancer rates
00:13:20.03\00:13:21.83
that were twice
as high as normal...
00:13:21.86\00:13:23.60
and heart disease rates that
were twice as high as normal
00:13:23.63\00:13:27.20
and what scientists have
come to understand over time...
00:13:27.24\00:13:30.77
is that it is the
stress of experiencing
00:13:30.81\00:13:33.68
those traumatic
events that has an effect
00:13:33.71\00:13:36.44
on our physical
development, on our system...
00:13:36.48\00:13:39.35
and we can see its
effects on our physical health
00:13:39.38\00:13:41.88
and on our mental
health, and on the development
00:13:41.92\00:13:44.69
of the kind of tension
and concentration skills
00:13:44.72\00:13:47.46
that matter so much in school...
00:13:47.49\00:13:48.79
so I think the message
to parents and to teachers
00:13:48.82\00:13:52.09
is really two
things... one is...
00:13:52.13\00:13:53.40
that we really need to
try to protect our kids
00:13:53.43\00:13:56.90
from these serious...
from these big stresses
00:13:56.93\00:14:00.34
as they're growing up...
that you know... I think...
00:14:00.37\00:14:02.70
some of us think,
"Well, they're just kids...
00:14:02.74\00:14:04.27
they bounce back...
they're resilient, and they are,
00:14:04.31\00:14:06.84
they're resilient and
they do recover, I think,
00:14:06.88\00:14:09.58
from difficult experiences,
but they're affected
00:14:09.61\00:14:12.28
by all of them...
especially living through
00:14:12.31\00:14:14.68
really intense traumas...
like being a victim of violence
00:14:14.72\00:14:18.09
that has a big effect
on kids and they need help
00:14:18.12\00:14:20.49
dealing with
that... and then I think,
00:14:20.52\00:14:22.06
the other thing
that it tells us...
00:14:22.09\00:14:23.59
as both parents and teachers
00:14:23.63\00:14:25.29
is that as kids get older
we need to be really aware
00:14:25.33\00:14:29.23
of the experiences
that they've gone through
00:14:29.26\00:14:31.37
as if they've
experience these traumas
00:14:31.40\00:14:32.87
and they're acting out in
school or acting out at home,
00:14:32.90\00:14:35.77
there's a reason
for that... you know...
00:14:35.80\00:14:37.17
they're not just being bad
kids, they're dealing with all
00:14:37.21\00:14:40.08
of the trauma that
they've experienced...
00:14:40.11\00:14:41.44
so they need an
additional kind of help
00:14:41.48\00:14:43.68
whether that's
counseling or mentoring
00:14:43.71\00:14:45.85
or psychological help sometimes,
medical help sometimes,
00:14:45.88\00:14:50.25
but these are things
that are really, I think,
00:14:50.29\00:14:52.19
important for
parents to take seriously...
00:14:52.22\00:14:54.12
Absolutely... I think sometimes
00:14:54.16\00:14:56.26
parents, as you said,
sometimes parents say,
00:14:56.29\00:14:59.66
"Oh the kid will bounce
back, children are resilient,
00:14:59.69\00:15:03.00
they can, you know, they
can just make it through"
00:15:03.03\00:15:06.17
but actually there is a
certain level of support
00:15:06.20\00:15:10.21
that is necessary to
help the child to navigate
00:15:10.24\00:15:13.54
basically... through
life... and through these
00:15:13.58\00:15:16.88
chaotic experiences...
and so what you're saying
00:15:16.91\00:15:20.18
is that... now
science is showing that
00:15:20.22\00:15:23.28
actually physical problems
can emerge as a result of
00:15:23.32\00:15:27.96
these adverse
childhood experiences
00:15:27.99\00:15:30.09
and I would imagine that,
in addition to the physical
00:15:30.13\00:15:34.20
of course, there's
the emotional and also
00:15:34.20\00:15:37.43
the outcome
success-wise is not as high
00:15:37.47\00:15:40.60
for children who have had these
adverse childhood experiences...
00:15:40.64\00:15:44.81
Absolutely, the
physical outcomes
00:15:44.84\00:15:48.38
are just the ones that we
can measure most clearly...
00:15:48.41\00:15:51.91
you can tell when someone gets
cancer or doesn't get cancer
00:15:51.95\00:15:54.32
we can really measure...
00:15:54.35\00:15:56.02
and these scientists can
measure the level of certain
00:15:56.05\00:15:58.89
stress hormones in the body...
and measure the number of
00:15:58.92\00:16:01.92
antibodies that help us fight
off colds and things like that
00:16:01.96\00:16:04.89
so, the data there is
really clear and the connections
00:16:04.93\00:16:07.96
between those
adverse experiences
00:16:07.96\00:16:09.53
and poor outcomes
00:16:09.56\00:16:10.93
in terms of health
have been well documented...
00:16:10.97\00:16:14.04
but I think
you're absolutely right
00:16:14.07\00:16:15.47
in some ways the
psychological and emotional
00:16:15.50\00:16:19.37
outcomes are
more... they're more serious
00:16:19.41\00:16:23.21
and they're more intense...
they're just a little harder
00:16:23.24\00:16:26.01
to measure... this child
sort of goes astray somehow
00:16:26.05\00:16:28.58
and they had traumatic
experiences growing up...
00:16:28.62\00:16:30.99
it's harder for us to
see that cause and effect
00:16:31.02\00:16:33.59
but it's very real...
and I think it's happening
00:16:33.62\00:16:36.12
all the time and in lots of
different sorts of families.
00:16:36.16\00:16:39.66
Absolutely... absolutely...
you talk also about the concept
00:16:39.69\00:16:43.10
of attachment... and I thought
00:16:43.13\00:16:45.43
that was very interesting
would you explain that to us?
00:16:45.47\00:16:47.94
Sure, so the psychology
of attachment is something
00:16:47.97\00:16:50.71
I didn't know much
about before I started work
00:16:50.74\00:16:53.48
on this book... but there's
a long history going back
00:16:53.51\00:16:56.21
several decades of psychologists
who've studied the connection
00:16:56.24\00:16:59.81
the emotional and
psychological connection between
00:16:59.85\00:17:01.98
parents and children... and
it's especially about infants
00:17:02.02\00:17:05.85
about the first 12
or 18 months of life
00:17:05.89\00:17:07.89
and what they find
is that there's a test
00:17:07.92\00:17:10.39
that you can do that
measures at age 12 months or
00:17:10.43\00:17:13.93
18 months whether
children are securely attached
00:17:13.96\00:17:17.40
to their parents or
insecurely attached...
00:17:17.43\00:17:20.14
anxiously attached...
and most kids are securely
00:17:20.17\00:17:23.94
attached... about
60 percent of all...
00:17:23.97\00:17:26.07
What's that test...
tell us about that test...
00:17:26.11\00:17:27.31
if you would...
00:17:27.34\00:17:28.58
Oh, the test... so
it's a bit of a strange test
00:17:28.61\00:17:30.61
it's called "The
Strange-Situation Test"
00:17:30.65\00:17:32.48
and so the way they do it...
they do it in the laboratory
00:17:32.51\00:17:34.95
that just looks like a
playroom and a parent...
00:17:34.98\00:17:38.39
usually a mother and
a child, an infant...
00:17:38.42\00:17:41.22
play together for a
while, and then the parent
00:17:41.26\00:17:44.03
leaves the room...
and often children...
00:17:44.06\00:17:46.59
babies cry for a little while...
they don't like being abandoned
00:17:46.63\00:17:50.13
and especially at 12 months,
and then the parent comes back
00:17:50.17\00:17:53.03
and the test is actually
not about what the infant
00:17:53.07\00:17:56.20
does when the parent leaves,
it's about what the infant
00:17:56.24\00:17:58.41
does when the parent comes back,
00:17:58.44\00:17:59.51
and when infants
are securely attached,
00:17:59.54\00:18:02.71
the baby, when the mom comes
back, will usually run to her
00:18:02.74\00:18:07.32
and grab her... and
sometimes they'll cry and
00:18:07.35\00:18:09.35
sometimes they won't cry,
they'll be happy to be reunited
00:18:09.38\00:18:11.32
anxiously-attached
babies will do
00:18:11.35\00:18:14.26
all sorts of different things,
sometimes, they'll run over
00:18:14.29\00:18:16.46
they'll hit the parent...
sometimes they'll ignore them
00:18:16.49\00:18:19.03
or pretend they
didn't care that they left...
00:18:19.06\00:18:21.63
sometimes they'll just
sort of curl up in a ball
00:18:21.66\00:18:24.23
and cry and be
unable to be comforted
00:18:24.27\00:18:26.70
it's all of these
sort of extreme reactions
00:18:26.74\00:18:30.11
that come from not
trusting that their parent
00:18:30.14\00:18:33.51
is there for
them... not feeling secure
00:18:33.54\00:18:35.58
in their relationship
with their parent...
00:18:35.61\00:18:37.21
and that can happen
for all sorts of reasons...
00:18:37.25\00:18:39.08
it certainly happens
when there is abuse or neglect
00:18:39.11\00:18:41.82
but it also can happen
when there's not enough
00:18:41.85\00:18:44.52
face-to-face connection
00:18:44.55\00:18:46.52
and presence between
a parent and a child...
00:18:46.55\00:18:48.76
and one of the things
that I find most interesting
00:18:48.79\00:18:52.19
in the research is that
00:18:52.23\00:18:53.40
this sort of connection,
this sort of attachment
00:18:53.43\00:18:56.60
is something that
parents can learn...
00:18:56.63\00:18:58.77
it's not just...
you're the sort of parent who
00:18:58.80\00:19:01.50
is securely attached or not
00:19:01.54\00:19:02.94
if you get the right kind
of support and instruction
00:19:02.97\00:19:06.17
as a parent... even
if you're not someone
00:19:06.21\00:19:08.24
who tends to have that kind of
connection with your babies...
00:19:08.28\00:19:11.11
you can change
a few small things
00:19:11.15\00:19:13.48
in terms of the way
you connect with them...
00:19:13.52\00:19:15.12
and you can do much better...
and the reality is, you know,
00:19:15.15\00:19:18.09
it's hard for some
parents, you grew up yourself
00:19:18.12\00:19:20.49
without having a
secure attachment
00:19:20.52\00:19:22.62
with your own parents
it's hard to be the sort of
00:19:22.66\00:19:25.66
mother or father who
has a secure attachment
00:19:25.69\00:19:28.10
with your babies... but
when adults... when parents
00:19:28.13\00:19:31.03
get that right kind of support,
help from those around them,
00:19:31.07\00:19:34.54
it makes it a
lot easier for them
00:19:34.57\00:19:36.17
to have that kind
of close connection
00:19:36.20\00:19:37.81
and once they
get that connection,
00:19:37.84\00:19:39.41
it makes parenting so much
more pleasant and rewarding
00:19:39.44\00:19:43.48
and happier because
everyone in the home
00:19:43.51\00:19:45.21
is a lot happier...
00:19:45.25\00:19:46.75
Yes... that is
great... can you tell us
00:19:46.78\00:19:48.92
a few of the
things that parents can do
00:19:48.95\00:19:51.45
to connect with their children?
00:19:51.49\00:19:53.99
Sure... so... some of
it is just about warmth...
00:19:54.02\00:19:56.96
it's about holding and singing
to... and caring for babies...
00:19:56.99\00:20:01.43
it's a lot of
face-to-face connection
00:20:01.46\00:20:04.00
skin-to-skin connection,
but it is also, I think,
00:20:04.03\00:20:07.54
about having...
something I think
00:20:07.57\00:20:09.77
some parents don't think it's
important in the early months
00:20:09.80\00:20:12.51
is having
conversations with your baby...
00:20:12.54\00:20:14.68
looking them in the eye...
and talking back and forth
00:20:14.71\00:20:17.78
even when the babies can't talk
and are just sometimes listening
00:20:17.81\00:20:21.22
and sometimes gurgling
and making strange sounds
00:20:21.25\00:20:24.55
their brains develop
because of this face-to-face
00:20:24.59\00:20:27.82
connection... and
that is a big part of
00:20:27.86\00:20:30.43
what develops
the secure attachment
00:20:30.46\00:20:32.93
it gives babies the
message, there's someone
00:20:32.96\00:20:35.86
looking out for them,
someone is focused on me...
00:20:35.90\00:20:38.07
someone who is
responding to my cues...
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.40
to the things that I
say, so, little things like
00:20:41.44\00:20:44.17
you know, just
looking babies in the eye,
00:20:44.21\00:20:46.47
and responding to
the sounds that they make
00:20:46.51\00:20:48.78
those cues...
those little actions,
00:20:48.81\00:20:52.08
have a big effect on how
00:20:52.11\00:20:53.62
children's brains develop and
how that relationship evolves.
00:20:53.65\00:20:57.12
That is so true...
and it's so important
00:20:57.15\00:21:00.52
it's not just
taking the baby and sitting
00:21:00.56\00:21:03.89
the baby in
front of Sesame Street
00:21:03.93\00:21:05.59
and hoping that the baby
gets something from it...
00:21:05.63\00:21:08.03
Sure... It's
interacting and reading
00:21:08.06\00:21:10.60
to the baby and singing
songs and teaching the baby,
00:21:10.63\00:21:14.47
it's that close
interaction and as you said,
00:21:14.50\00:21:18.91
skin-to-skin hugging the baby
and having that verbal exchange
00:21:18.94\00:21:23.95
even if the baby can't talk well
00:21:23.98\00:21:25.91
Right... I think
that's all so important
00:21:25.95\00:21:27.92
and that creates that
sense of attachment... correct?
00:21:27.95\00:21:30.69
It does absolutely...
00:21:30.72\00:21:32.15
and I think... you're
talking about Sesame Street
00:21:32.19\00:21:34.22
I think a lot of
parents part of this
00:21:34.26\00:21:35.92
cognitive hypothesis idea...
00:21:35.96\00:21:37.39
I think a lot of parents...
out of the last couple
00:21:37.43\00:21:39.69
of decades have heard
this message from all over
00:21:39.73\00:21:41.96
that what matters is, you
know, vocabulary development
00:21:42.00\00:21:45.00
and getting the right kind
of sort of cognitive influence
00:21:45.03\00:21:48.00
and so a lot of them are fine
00:21:48.04\00:21:49.10
"Okay, I'm going to
give the baby this video game
00:21:49.14\00:21:52.97
that builds vocabularies or
I'll let them watch this TV show
00:21:53.01\00:21:55.58
that develops
vocabularies," and in fact,
00:21:55.61\00:21:57.78
what we're find is
that's not how children
00:21:57.81\00:21:59.95
either develop the
sort of character strengths
00:22:00.05\00:22:03.05
that matter or
develop their vocabulary
00:22:03.08\00:22:04.72
they way that they develop
is in face-to-face contact
00:22:04.75\00:22:07.39
with an adult and
ideally... with a parent.
00:22:07.42\00:22:10.69
Yes, yes, let's talk a bit
about character development
00:22:10.73\00:22:14.56
because that is such a key
00:22:14.60\00:22:16.50
a key component in
being successful...
00:22:16.53\00:22:19.90
tools of the mind...
those strategies with
00:22:19.93\00:22:22.44
tools of the mind...
tell us about that...
00:22:22.47\00:22:24.94
sure, so... the way that I read,
00:22:24.97\00:22:28.71
I want to talk for a second
about the word "character"
00:22:28.74\00:22:30.81
so, character, I think,
is a complicated word...
00:22:30.85\00:22:33.78
it's also sometimes
a controversial word...
00:22:33.82\00:22:35.78
there's a way...
that at certain points
00:22:35.82\00:22:38.15
in history...
we've used it as a way to
00:22:38.19\00:22:40.46
I think, try to impose
different values on people...
00:22:40.49\00:22:43.16
and so a I think
a lot of people...
00:22:43.19\00:22:44.39
resist... someone
telling them, you know,
00:22:44.43\00:22:46.19
"Your child does not have the
right character strengths... "
00:22:46.23\00:22:48.63
but I think that in the
research that I'm writing about
00:22:48.66\00:22:51.83
in how children succeed,
character is just another word
00:22:51.87\00:22:55.00
for this kind of
non-cognitive brain development
00:22:55.04\00:22:58.97
it's things like being able
to persist at a difficult task
00:22:59.01\00:23:02.54
dealing very well
with a confrontation...
00:23:02.58\00:23:04.25
all of those... I think...
are the character strengths
00:23:04.28\00:23:06.95
that matter most... in
terms of how children succeed
00:23:06.98\00:23:09.58
and so, what
researchers are finding is that
00:23:09.62\00:23:12.55
at different stages
of a child's development
00:23:12.59\00:23:15.42
there are different things
that help develop these skills
00:23:15.46\00:23:17.49
early on... as
we've been talking about
00:23:17.53\00:23:19.59
things like attachment...
things like close connection
00:23:19.63\00:23:22.13
between a parent and a child,
that makes a big difference
00:23:22.16\00:23:24.63
in terms of... the development
of these character strengths...
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.44
tools of the mind is
this pre-Kindergarten and
00:23:27.47\00:23:29.77
Kindergarten
Program that uses... "play"
00:23:29.80\00:23:31.97
uses make-believe play
with 4- and 5-year-olds...
00:23:32.01\00:23:35.14
to develop self-control,
another very important
00:23:35.18\00:23:38.28
character
strength... their theory is
00:23:38.31\00:23:40.35
when kids do make-believe,
they learn how to follow rules
00:23:40.38\00:23:43.92
and then that's a
more effective way
00:23:43.95\00:23:45.82
of getting kids
to learn self-control
00:23:45.85\00:23:47.66
than just lecturing
them and telling them...
00:23:47.69\00:23:49.62
"You have to be
more self-controlled"
00:23:49.66\00:23:51.39
make-believe play helps
them learn those sorts of skills
00:23:51.43\00:23:55.10
on their own... and
then when kids get older,
00:23:55.13\00:23:56.97
I think it's much more
about the way we talk with kids
00:23:57.00\00:24:00.77
there's this psychological
idea called "metacognition"
00:24:00.80\00:24:04.54
which just means...
thinking about "thinking"
00:24:04.57\00:24:06.54
and when kids get older...
when kids become adolescents
00:24:06.57\00:24:09.58
for the first time,
they are really able to
00:24:09.61\00:24:11.65
reflect on their
own thought processes...
00:24:11.68\00:24:13.65
and some of the
best interventions
00:24:13.68\00:24:15.12
that I have read about
on how children succeed...
00:24:15.15\00:24:16.79
encourage conversations,
encourage kids to really reflect
00:24:16.82\00:24:19.92
on themselves... why am I
not being more self-controlled?
00:24:19.95\00:24:22.99
why do I always react to this
kind of provocation in this way?
00:24:23.02\00:24:26.29
and when we can talk to our kids
00:24:26.33\00:24:28.13
or when mentors or
community members can talk
00:24:28.16\00:24:30.57
to our kids...
it's about these skills
00:24:30.60\00:24:33.17
I think they
really respond well...
00:24:33.20\00:24:35.30
they like
understanding themselves
00:24:35.34\00:24:37.37
and in understanding themselves
they can often develop
00:24:37.41\00:24:40.31
better habits
and better patterns
00:24:40.34\00:24:42.04
and really change
their whole character...
00:24:42.08\00:24:43.98
Wow! that is amazing,
you know, that's such...
00:24:44.01\00:24:48.78
those areas of perseverance
and optimism and self-control
00:24:48.82\00:24:53.36
and curiosity... these
things are aspects that
00:24:53.39\00:24:57.73
we have not really
emphasized in the past...
00:24:57.76\00:25:00.73
and you're telling us that
Science really had shown that
00:25:00.76\00:25:04.23
we really do need
to look at these things
00:25:04.27\00:25:06.17
a bit more thoroughly
because that is the other side
00:25:06.20\00:25:09.87
of the success piece...
You're right... and... I mean...
00:25:09.90\00:25:13.07
there's a way, I think,
that every parent knows this...
00:25:13.11\00:25:16.28
and knows that
these skills are important
00:25:16.31\00:25:18.28
and want their
kids to be able to
00:25:18.31\00:25:19.71
exercise self-control...
00:25:19.75\00:25:21.05
they want their
children to be optimistic...
00:25:21.08\00:25:22.78
but I think there are lots
of ways... that the messages
00:25:22.82\00:25:26.32
that we've
received from Society...
00:25:26.35\00:25:28.69
especially over
the last 10 or 15 years
00:25:28.72\00:25:30.96
have been oriented in a
very different direction...
00:25:30.99\00:25:33.50
it's sort of telling us
it's all about your test scores
00:25:33.53\00:25:35.96
that's what's going to matter
that's what we need to focus on
00:25:36.00\00:25:38.30
and again... while
those things important
00:25:38.33\00:25:40.77
there is this much
broader set of skills
00:25:40.80\00:25:43.17
that parents can do a whole lot
to affect in their children...
00:25:43.20\00:25:45.77
and that... that
Science is not telling us
00:25:45.81\00:25:48.51
matter a great deal... in
terms of the long-term success
00:25:48.54\00:25:51.98
of any individual...
certainly any child...
00:25:52.01\00:25:53.92
Thank you so much... for
telling us these things...
00:25:53.95\00:25:58.39
do you have a closing thought...
00:25:58.42\00:25:59.79
our time is up... I
cannot believe it...
00:25:59.82\00:26:01.26
do you have a closing
thought for our viewers...
00:26:01.29\00:26:03.39
anything that
you'd like to share
00:26:03.43\00:26:05.29
in like 30 seconds or less?
00:26:05.33\00:26:06.93
Sure, I think, especially
for the parents in the audience
00:26:06.96\00:26:10.10
I think it's really
useful to understand
00:26:10.13\00:26:12.30
how much power we
have... as parents
00:26:12.33\00:26:14.44
you know, we can't control
everything about our children
00:26:14.47\00:26:16.94
in our children's lives,
but I think the fact that
00:26:16.97\00:26:19.74
that making a few changes
00:26:19.77\00:26:21.34
in how we deal with our kids
00:26:21.38\00:26:22.84
thinking a little bit
differently about them
00:26:22.88\00:26:24.31
connecting with
them a little bit more
00:26:24.35\00:26:25.85
can have this huge impact...
not just on how things go
00:26:25.88\00:26:29.25
in the family right away,
but also can affect things like
00:26:29.28\00:26:32.62
their High School
graduation rate...
00:26:32.65\00:26:34.62
you know, how likely they
are going to be successful
00:26:34.66\00:26:36.49
for the long
term... so there's a lot
00:26:36.52\00:26:38.09
that we can do as parents...
even when we're dealing with
00:26:38.13\00:26:41.13
pretty stressful
situations around us...
00:26:41.16\00:26:43.77
Thank you so much
Paul for being with us
00:26:43.80\00:26:46.33
and thank you for the
insight that you've shared...
00:26:46.37\00:26:48.70
and thank you for this book,
I recommend it to everybody,
00:26:48.74\00:26:52.31
get "How Children
Succeed" it's a crucial book...
00:26:52.34\00:26:55.38
Thanks so much Yvonne,
it was great to be here...
00:26:55.41\00:26:58.38
I enjoyed the conversation.
00:26:58.41\00:26:59.61
The Bible says,
"Train up a child...
00:26:59.65\00:27:02.38
in the way he should
go... and when he's old...
00:27:02.42\00:27:05.09
he will not depart from
it. " What does that mean?
00:27:05.12\00:27:07.72
Besides teaching our
children about Jesus...
00:27:07.76\00:27:10.49
we should help them
in character building...
00:27:10.53\00:27:13.16
Paul Tough made
some great points
00:27:13.19\00:27:15.73
about how Science is supporting
the idea of character building
00:27:15.76\00:27:20.20
we can endow our children with
the skills-set of perseverance,
00:27:20.24\00:27:24.67
curiosity,
optimism and self-control...
00:27:24.71\00:27:27.61
you don't have to
be rich to do that...
00:27:27.64\00:27:30.48
you just have to
parent... I pray that today...
00:27:30.51\00:27:34.52
you got some tips
and some strategies
00:27:34.55\00:27:37.22
that you can instantly apply
to your children in their lives
00:27:37.25\00:27:40.76
and if not to your own
children, to your grandchildren,
00:27:40.79\00:27:43.73
to your neighbors,
share this information
00:27:43.76\00:27:46.70
it's so critical...
00:27:46.73\00:27:47.76
Well, that's it for
our Program today...
00:27:47.83\00:27:50.43
Thanks so much for joining us...
00:27:50.47\00:27:52.17
Tune in next time...
because you know what?
00:27:52.20\00:27:54.94
It just wouldn't be
the same without you.
00:27:54.97\00:27:57.77