So just what do you
think about homosexuality...
00:00:01.06\00:00:03.22
Should we as
Christians endorse it?
00:00:03.26\00:00:05.45
Is it a sin?
00:00:05.48\00:00:06.87
Stay tuned to
hear what five people
00:00:06.90\00:00:09.60
that were living the
gay lifestyle have to say...
00:00:09.63\00:00:12.05
My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
00:00:12.09\00:00:14.92
Urban Report...
00:00:14.96\00:00:16.29
Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
00:00:39.10\00:00:41.33
Today's Program is an
interview with five people
00:00:41.36\00:00:44.00
that were delivered
from the gay lifestyle...
00:00:44.03\00:00:46.64
Now I know that
in today's culture...
00:00:46.67\00:00:49.58
that's not a politically
correct thing to say...
00:00:49.61\00:00:51.81
However, sexual sin...
whether fornication, adultery...
00:00:51.84\00:00:55.95
homosexuality or
promiscuity requires a Savior...
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My guest from
'Coming Out' Ministries
00:00:59.48\00:01:02.49
have been
redeemed... I interviewed them
00:01:02.53\00:01:05.44
on the new Set of "Pure
Choices" we did a mini-series
00:01:05.47\00:01:08.72
on homosexuality
that is compelling...
00:01:08.76\00:01:10.96
I hope you'll tune in to it...
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Check the Dare to Dream
website's schedule for the time
00:01:12.81\00:01:15.83
of the Pure Choices
Program, take a look at this...
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So, I'm sitting here on
the Set of Pure Choices...
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doing an Urban
Report Program, go figure...
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I am so thankful to have
the 'Coming Out' Ministries Team
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here... let me kind
of go around the room
00:01:32.78\00:01:36.13
and you guys
introduce yourself...
00:01:36.16\00:01:37.63
Mike... I'm Mike Carducci...
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From? from
Greeneville, Tennessee...
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Yeah... I'm Lisa Santos
00:01:41.71\00:01:44.07
and I'm from
Roseville, California...
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I'm Virna Santos and I'm
from Roseville, California...
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I'm Wayne Blakely from
Vancouver, Washington...
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I'm Ron Woolsey
and I pastor a Church
00:01:52.84\00:01:55.80
in Marshall,
Arkansas... Amen... amen...
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'Coming Out' Ministries
is such a unique ministry...
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tell us... first of
all... what it is...
00:02:03.57\00:02:06.84
kind of go around
and tell me what it is...
00:02:06.87\00:02:09.65
What's 'Coming
Out' Ministries for you?
00:02:09.69\00:02:12.40
Well, the name came
about because we wanted to give
00:02:12.43\00:02:20.18
the real...
truth... to "coming out"...
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Today, you hear
people say, "I'm Gay... "
00:02:23.66\00:02:27.19
"I'm coming out...
" and so they say that
00:02:27.22\00:02:30.72
you've come out
and there's nothing
00:02:30.76\00:02:32.41
that you can do about
it... but in 1 Peter 2:9
00:02:32.45\00:02:37.13
the verse says that...
00:02:37.16\00:02:38.31
"He brought us out of darkness
into His marvelous light... "
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and so, today, we
want people to know...
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what the real
'Coming Out' is... Amen...
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You know, for me,
I remember when...
00:02:47.22\00:02:50.08
all of a sudden I got
this startling reality
00:02:50.11\00:02:52.65
from God that He
was telling me that
00:02:52.69\00:02:54.26
that... I could come out of that
00:02:54.30\00:02:55.83
understanding... and I
thought I already came out
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once... and
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when the reality hit me
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that I couldn't
keep my boyfriend
00:03:01.16\00:03:03.20
and that even my understanding
00:03:03.23\00:03:04.88
of what I
thought I was born with
00:03:04.92\00:03:06.49
and had a "right"
to... that... for me was
00:03:06.53\00:03:09.97
another 'coming out' of
even my own understanding...
00:03:10.00\00:03:14.88
Yeah... to me... this whole
thing of the gay lifestyle...
00:03:14.92\00:03:21.11
has really evolved now
into a political agenda...
00:03:21.15\00:03:28.03
and so,
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I really want to look at
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after we find
out more about you...
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I really want to look at that...
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and what's going on in
the Country right now...
00:03:35.76\00:03:37.69
one of the great things,
I need to tell our viewers,
00:03:37.73\00:03:40.18
is that... we
are doing a "Special"
00:03:40.21\00:03:42.42
on Pure Choices...
of a short series...
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with each of you individually...
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so our viewers will have a
chance to hear your stories...
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because each of you... has...
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such a tremendous testimony...
so we're going to share that
00:03:53.10\00:03:56.72
and talk about
that in more depth...
00:03:56.76\00:03:58.55
today, we're going to really
just talk about your ministry
00:03:58.58\00:04:01.77
as a whole...
and look at that...
00:04:01.80\00:04:03.54
So, to you Lisa, what
is 'Coming Out' Ministries
00:04:03.58\00:04:07.22
to you? I think,
it's five people,
00:04:07.26\00:04:11.35
with different stories
that God has led us out
00:04:11.38\00:04:14.55
from the darkness to
His marvelous light...
00:04:14.58\00:04:17.67
and it's so neat... how...
we all have a different angle,
00:04:17.71\00:04:22.12
a different story...
that we can reach people
00:04:22.15\00:04:24.83
at different
levels... of their struggle...
00:04:24.86\00:04:27.50
and so, that, to
me... is unique...
00:04:27.54\00:04:30.24
and I know that this is
God-ordained... God-led... so...
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I feel so too...
what about you Virna?
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I'm immensely blessed...
by our coming together...
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and like... just my sister said,
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it's pretty evident
that it was God leading...
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when the Lord called me out
of that particular darkness...
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I had a burden on my
heart to find other "Like-Souls"
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because for some
reason, God told me,
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"There are others... " Wow...
00:05:01.21\00:05:03.39
and when he
whispered that to my heart...
00:05:03.42\00:05:05.66
I came across... I believe...
it was Mike's testimony
00:05:05.69\00:05:10.90
his testimony was being
shared at Southern University
00:05:10.93\00:05:15.90
and I heard it on Audioverse,
and then I came across
00:05:15.93\00:05:19.58
Wayne's article in
the Adventist Review...
00:05:19.62\00:05:23.93
and then I saw his
interview Live Stream
00:05:23.96\00:05:27.50
with Pastor...
what was his name again?
00:05:27.53\00:05:31.00
with Pr. Randy
Maxwell... and I've always known
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of Ron Woolsey...
because when the Lord was
00:05:35.76\00:05:38.32
walking me through this
process of discovery in Jesus,
00:05:38.35\00:05:42.92
Hmmm... hmmm... I
was looking online
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and looking for
sources that would support
00:05:44.94\00:05:48.14
my "Gay Identity" and
still be a Christian...
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Hmmm... hmmm...
and I came across
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so many websites...
and Ron Woolsey's website
00:05:52.59\00:05:56.15
"The Narrow Way"
was one of those...
00:05:56.19\00:05:57.99
so I had known of his
ministry from the very beginning
00:05:58.02\00:06:02.10
of my process of
looking and searching for Jesus,
00:06:02.13\00:06:05.32
and so, I'd be like,
00:06:05.36\00:06:07.72
"Lord is there any way
00:06:07.75\00:06:10.04
that I could get a
hold of these people... "
00:06:10.08\00:06:11.80
and so I used Facebook, I
used all means of reaching out
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Wow, so you kind of
spearheaded the whole team...
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Well, the Lord
did... Yes... of course...
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He laid it on your
heart to do that...
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so, okay... so,
how did you connect...
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how did everybody connect?
00:06:27.27\00:06:29.25
It was... well through
Facebook, I called Wayne,
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I think he was the
first person I called...
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then I was able to talk to Ron,
00:06:34.38\00:06:36.25
and then I was
able to talk to Mike...
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and then there were
some crisscross communication
00:06:38.44\00:06:41.24
I believe, we were
talking to "like people"
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that I knew... the
people they knew...
00:06:43.73\00:06:47.10
and people I was
coming across to knowing...
00:06:47.13\00:06:49.32
we were all having
these conversations
00:06:49.35\00:06:51.18
so, it just happened...
and God brought us together
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of 2011... at Soquel
Central California Conferences
00:06:55.37\00:06:59.45
Camp Meeting... Wow...
so, okay, so, let's say
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I have a gay child... a
child that say... is 15 now...
00:07:05.65\00:07:11.99
that says to me... "I
don't know what to do... "
00:07:12.02\00:07:17.31
what would each of
you... how would you counsel
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both the child and the
parent... what do you say,
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because now-a-days... I
need to preface this part,
00:07:25.76\00:07:29.54
one of the things
that I'm noticing...
00:07:29.58\00:07:31.76
is this heavy
thrust... it's almost as though
00:07:31.79\00:07:35.89
it's being thrust upon us,
and if you disagree with it
00:07:35.92\00:07:39.78
or if you call it
sin... just like you call
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fornication... sin
or adultery... sin,
00:07:42.27\00:07:44.89
if you call it
sin... you're homophobic...
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Hmmm... so they
paint you in this
00:07:47.55\00:07:49.85
bigot box... if
you disagree with it...
00:07:49.89\00:07:53.90
so, what do you
say... to both that child
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and that parent...
who... the child is struggling
00:07:57.91\00:08:02.09
with the identity
issue... and the parent
00:08:02.13\00:08:04.39
is trying to
figure out what to do...
00:08:04.43\00:08:06.63
Well, the parent, first of
all, needs to love that child
00:08:06.66\00:08:10.96
unconditionally and
be very understanding,
00:08:11.00\00:08:13.52
and very compassionate,
I grew up, without that,
00:08:13.55\00:08:16.91
because my
father didn't understand
00:08:16.95\00:08:20.06
what was going on with me
00:08:20.09\00:08:21.26
and that drove
a wedge between us
00:08:21.30\00:08:23.30
and so I counsel fathers,
"Please love your children,
00:08:23.60\00:08:27.79
no matter how
peculiar, no matter how bizarre
00:08:27.83\00:08:31.24
their behavior...
love them physically
00:08:31.27\00:08:34.16
they need physical
affection from their fathers...
00:08:34.20\00:08:37.27
the boys do... " Hmmm...
00:08:37.31\00:08:38.41
"if they don't have
that love cup filled...
00:08:38.44\00:08:41.14
someone will come
and offer to fill it...
00:08:41.18\00:08:43.85
and it will be a
perversion... " Hmmm...
00:08:43.88\00:08:46.28
so from the parent's
perspective they need to be
00:08:46.32\00:08:48.67
very compassionate
and understanding...
00:08:48.71\00:08:50.46
in dealing with the child...
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the Bible says that
there's no other name
00:08:53.94\00:08:56.03
under heaven given among
men, whereby we must be saved...
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Hmmm... hmmm... in
recognizing that this is
00:08:58.80\00:09:00.94
a "sin" issue...
according to the Bible,
00:09:00.98\00:09:03.14
and I know that's
not politically correct,
00:09:03.18\00:09:06.05
it's not conventional
thinking, but as long as
00:09:06.09\00:09:08.89
I was justifying my behavior,
as being born this way...
00:09:08.93\00:09:12.30
it's an acceptable
alternative lifestyle...
00:09:12.34\00:09:14.93
the Lord had to
stand by and wait for me
00:09:14.96\00:09:17.51
to acknowledge mine
iniquity... Jeremiah 3...
00:09:17.55\00:09:20.45
then He says, "I can
heal your backsliding"
00:09:20.49\00:09:23.70
so with a child... when you're
dealing with young teenagers...
00:09:23.73\00:09:29.92
or what have
you... to me it seems
00:09:29.95\00:09:33.17
the appropriate thing is to
lead the child to Jesus first...
00:09:33.21\00:09:37.50
don't come down on all of
the behavior and the confusion
00:09:37.53\00:09:42.55
because... the Bible
also says, Jesus says,
00:09:42.58\00:09:45.95
"Seek ye first the kingdom
of God, and His righteousness;
00:09:45.98\00:09:49.95
and all these things
shall be added unto you. "
00:09:49.99\00:09:52.37
So if there's not a
relationship with Jesus,
00:09:52.41\00:09:54.89
and it's only through
Him that we can be saved
00:09:54.93\00:09:57.38
from sin... then,
we're beating the air
00:09:57.41\00:10:02.71
with these children...
they need to be led to Christ
00:10:02.75\00:10:05.70
and miraculous things happen,
when they love Jesus first...
00:10:05.74\00:10:09.57
to put things in proper order...
Yes... isn't that really
00:10:09.60\00:10:13.40
what we should be doing anyway
00:10:13.43\00:10:16.03
with anybody...
with everybody...
00:10:16.07\00:10:18.60
we need to lead
them to Jesus first...
00:10:18.63\00:10:21.54
Yes... and then, the Holy Spirit
00:10:21.57\00:10:24.27
begins to work
from the inside out...
00:10:24.31\00:10:26.84
By beholding Him,
we become changed...
00:10:26.88\00:10:29.34
they become changed...
that's the first thing
00:10:29.38\00:10:31.56
that we try to
help people see...
00:10:31.59\00:10:34.29
Yes... that's great...
what do you think Mike?
00:10:34.32\00:10:37.28
Oh, I was a
hairdresser working side-by-side
00:10:37.31\00:10:40.24
with my sister...
she was my assistant
00:10:40.28\00:10:42.73
and through all
of my relationships
00:10:42.77\00:10:45.15
I never got the
impression from her that
00:10:45.19\00:10:47.41
she judged me... and I
felt that she accepted me
00:10:47.45\00:10:50.69
she was great with my boyfriends
00:10:50.73\00:10:53.64
and relationships...
and working beside me
00:10:53.67\00:10:56.40
she was a clear
example of a Christian
00:10:56.43\00:10:59.09
just because of the
fact that she accepted me
00:10:59.13\00:11:01.76
and we worked in a salon
with openly-gay hairdressers
00:11:01.79\00:11:05.74
as well, but
what I wasn't aware of
00:11:05.77\00:11:08.11
is... she and one
of my other sisters
00:11:08.14\00:11:10.33
had been praying
for me... for years...
00:11:10.37\00:11:12.59
I wasn't even aware
of what was going on...
00:11:12.62\00:11:14.77
and it wasn't like I had
the rug pulled out from under me
00:11:14.80\00:11:18.27
in my experience...
but what happened is
00:11:18.30\00:11:20.50
the Lord was
lining up opportunities
00:11:20.53\00:11:22.66
and when I felt like I
was at the top of my game
00:11:22.70\00:11:25.26
professionally, relationally,
I had a millionaire boyfriend
00:11:25.30\00:11:30.22
and was doing
really well professionally
00:11:30.26\00:11:33.05
and everyone
accepted my homosexuality
00:11:33.09\00:11:35.81
and I was surrounded
by my friends that way
00:11:35.85\00:11:38.39
but God was able
to reach me at a time
00:11:38.42\00:11:42.28
when I had no idea
through their faithful prayers
00:11:42.32\00:11:45.25
so, when a mother
comes to me or a parent,
00:11:45.28\00:11:47.39
and they have a
child that's gay...
00:11:47.42\00:11:48.99
that is the most
immediate thing that I can say,
00:11:49.03\00:11:51.90
"Start praying... and be
deliberate about your prayer
00:11:51.93\00:11:54.82
and focus on
what your goal is... "
00:11:54.86\00:11:56.15
Ah, this is so
good because I know
00:11:56.18\00:11:58.69
that there are parents out there
00:11:58.73\00:12:01.17
that are struggling
with this, that want to know
00:12:01.20\00:12:03.88
what do I do... where do
I go... where do I start?
00:12:03.92\00:12:06.65
and you guys are
giving this great, great info.
00:12:06.68\00:12:09.28
What do you think?
00:12:09.31\00:12:10.42
May I say one thing
about this matter...
00:12:10.46\00:12:11.67
Yeah, please...
00:12:11.70\00:12:12.82
if this child feels that
the parents are embarrassed...
00:12:12.85\00:12:15.58
that they're
ashamed of the child
00:12:15.61\00:12:18.17
it would drive him
or her farther away
00:12:18.21\00:12:21.33
in his life... and I
know this about my parents
00:12:21.37\00:12:25.85
as they were
desperately praying for me
00:12:25.89\00:12:28.39
in their intercession,
they loved me unconditionally
00:12:28.43\00:12:30.77
they made major
attempts to be with me...
00:12:30.81\00:12:33.46
they loved me...
they loved my friends...
00:12:33.50\00:12:36.12
but just like Jesus...
while they did not condemn me,
00:12:36.15\00:12:40.70
they did not
condone the behavior,
00:12:40.73\00:12:43.47
Hmmm... hmmm...
it's kind of a tightrope
00:12:43.51\00:12:45.79
that you walk... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:45.82\00:12:47.00
but if the parents
are following Jesus...
00:12:47.03\00:12:49.37
they can be
successful with this...
00:12:49.40\00:12:51.32
and it drew me to my
parents, and through that...
00:12:51.36\00:12:56.56
Jesus drew me to him...
00:12:56.59\00:12:58.46
Hmmm... so the
parents' walk has to be...
00:12:58.49\00:13:02.17
the parents have to
make their walk right...
00:13:02.21\00:13:05.16
Yes... yeah... so
that their prayers are not
00:13:05.19\00:13:08.07
hindered... and then...
they pray of course for...
00:13:08.11\00:13:11.89
for that child... yeah Wayne...
00:13:11.92\00:13:14.24
There's a disillusionment
that feelings equal truth...
00:13:14.51\00:13:19.67
Hmmm... let's talk about that...
00:13:19.71\00:13:22.62
and so... the idea...
is that when you're young
00:13:22.65\00:13:24.52
like I was very
young... my feelings were
00:13:24.55\00:13:26.91
screaming out to me saying,
that I was same-sex attracted...
00:13:26.94\00:13:29.98
my parents didn't know
what to do with that...
00:13:30.01\00:13:32.00
they never stopped loving
me and like Mike's sisters,
00:13:32.03\00:13:36.61
my parents prayed
for me for 40 years...
00:13:36.64\00:13:39.72
which shows that God
hears and answers prayers...
00:13:39.75\00:13:43.04
no matter how long it takes...
00:13:43.07\00:13:44.33
Hmmm... hmmm... but,
when I share with people
00:13:44.37\00:13:46.92
in churches and schools today,
00:13:46.96\00:13:49.00
the most
important thing for a child
00:13:49.03\00:13:51.12
is to plug that child...
00:13:51.16\00:13:53.08
into a relationship
00:13:53.11\00:13:54.47
with Jesus Christ
very, very early...
00:13:54.51\00:13:56.39
when they are 2- and 3-years-old
00:13:56.42\00:13:58.13
Hmmm... hmmm... and hopefully...
00:13:58.16\00:13:59.78
the parents are also plugged in
00:13:59.82\00:14:01.37
because we can't
share what we don't have...
00:14:01.40\00:14:03.36
That's right...
00:14:03.40\00:14:04.52
So, if you plug a
person into God's Word...
00:14:04.56\00:14:08.46
in a personal individual
intimate relationship with Him
00:14:08.50\00:14:13.42
then... when you're experiencing
feelings that aren't
00:14:13.46\00:14:16.55
going in
accordance with God's Word...
00:14:16.59\00:14:19.00
you know to turn
them over to Him...
00:14:19.03\00:14:21.33
and live in
spite of those feelings
00:14:21.36\00:14:23.59
according to His Word instead
of according to your feelings...
00:14:23.62\00:14:26.65
So, you can, then, kind
of override those feelings
00:14:26.68\00:14:30.60
because... exactly...
because you're being delivered
00:14:30.63\00:14:34.51
because the Lord is
working on your heart...
00:14:34.55\00:14:37.88
your allegiance
is to Him... Yeah...
00:14:37.92\00:14:40.28
that's really the
bottom line... Surrender...
00:14:40.32\00:14:43.04
Yes... yes... We
worked a lot with parents
00:14:43.08\00:14:45.74
and young adults and youth...
it's a very intricate work...
00:14:45.77\00:14:52.08
it's a very holy,
divine work... Hmmm...
00:14:52.12\00:14:55.40
and it's a gentle
process... we have to remember
00:14:55.43\00:14:59.04
2 Corinthians
3:18... it's an unveiling...
00:14:59.07\00:15:02.82
Hmmm... and it's
layer by layer...
00:15:02.85\00:15:06.70
glory to glory... step by step
00:15:06.73\00:15:08.99
Like an onion... layer by layer
00:15:09.03\00:15:11.64
Yes... and Jesus knows
the hurts and the mistakes
00:15:11.67\00:15:16.58
that have
happened... and with parents,
00:15:16.61\00:15:19.90
in our experience
with... mine and my sister's
00:15:19.93\00:15:24.80
my mom had a very difficult time
00:15:24.84\00:15:26.66
processing it...
00:15:26.69\00:15:29.28
and I was very
blatant about my lifestyle...
00:15:29.32\00:15:32.69
Hmmm... and I didn't care about
00:15:32.73\00:15:35.41
what people felt... and
it was hard for my mother
00:15:35.44\00:15:39.56
Were you in a
single-parent household?
00:15:39.59\00:15:43.86
No, we grew up with
both our mom and dad...
00:15:43.89\00:15:47.88
but we had found
that there is a level
00:15:47.92\00:15:51.89
that the Lord
brings the family together
00:15:51.92\00:15:55.85
Hmmm... and it's interesting...
00:15:55.89\00:15:58.13
it's amazing to see God's
hand work with these families
00:15:58.16\00:16:02.53
because then... He
opens up certain things
00:16:02.56\00:16:05.88
that the family can
only handle for that time...
00:16:05.91\00:16:09.13
Yes... and it's fills my heart
00:16:09.17\00:16:13.29
with so much joy
when Jesus does this work
00:16:13.32\00:16:17.03
and you see it happen,
00:16:17.07\00:16:18.49
and everyone is willing
00:16:18.53\00:16:19.88
to take accountability for
some dynamic that has caused
00:16:19.92\00:16:25.26
or has contributed to
this child's struggle...
00:16:25.30\00:16:30.29
and suffering and their identity
because there is that...
00:16:30.33\00:16:34.26
and that's what, I believe,
Jesus is calling everyone
00:16:34.30\00:16:38.20
to some level of accountability.
00:16:38.24\00:16:40.35
How interesting is that...
so you're basically saying,
00:16:40.39\00:16:43.83
"This is not
something you're born with...
00:16:43.86\00:16:47.39
this has to do with
interpersonal dynamics
00:16:47.42\00:16:50.78
more than anything... "
00:16:50.81\00:16:52.93
Yes... it can be... I
don't think we can ever argue
00:16:52.96\00:16:57.01
we hear that a lot
today... and we hear people say,
00:16:57.05\00:16:59.94
"I was born this way"
and initially, we can't argue
00:16:59.97\00:17:03.36
that experience...
however, when we've sat down
00:17:03.40\00:17:06.80
with these very people, and
myself... I was one who said
00:17:06.84\00:17:10.21
"I was born this
way... " we all did...
00:17:10.25\00:17:13.60
right? and we all say
that, everyone here said that,
00:17:13.64\00:17:17.38
but I think when we
started our walk with Jesus
00:17:17.42\00:17:20.25
in a very gentle way... I
started to go to Church with
00:17:20.28\00:17:22.60
an intention of,
"I'm not going to change
00:17:22.64\00:17:25.41
my identity...
this is who I am... "
00:17:25.44\00:17:27.23
I even told God,
"this is who I am...
00:17:27.26\00:17:29.01
you made me this way... "
00:17:29.04\00:17:30.24
We should use the
"Power of Choice... "
00:17:30.27\00:17:32.25
right... and so,
it's coming to know
00:17:32.28\00:17:34.19
Jesus... and who He
is... that revealed...
00:17:34.22\00:17:38.98
my need of him... and
that He did not intend
00:17:39.01\00:17:43.73
for me... to be
born... "this way"
00:17:43.77\00:17:46.59
See... what the world is
doing today... is saying,
00:17:46.63\00:17:51.06
"Just be yourself,
be who you are... "
00:17:51.10\00:17:53.35
which is really pretty
much based on "feeling" again...
00:17:53.39\00:17:56.62
Hmmm... hmmm... but
as God called us to Him,
00:17:56.66\00:17:59.15
regardless of
whether it's homosexuality,
00:17:59.18\00:18:01.60
whether it's adultery issues,
whether it's eating issues,
00:18:01.64\00:18:05.96
or regardless of what
it is... God sets His plan
00:18:05.99\00:18:09.29
forward for us to
clearly see in His Word...
00:18:09.33\00:18:12.42
and we're drawn to Him
if we allow ourselves...
00:18:12.46\00:18:15.48
if we've surrendered to
Him, to be brought to Him...
00:18:15.52\00:18:17.84
May I comment on
that, "Born this Way... "
00:18:17.87\00:18:20.74
that concept... because
we all were there right?
00:18:20.78\00:18:23.75
we have all felt,
"We were born this way"
00:18:23.78\00:18:26.59
we hear this
argument from everyone
00:18:26.62\00:18:28.95
and I used to use that argument
00:18:28.98\00:18:31.24
in order to just shut
down the conversation...
00:18:31.27\00:18:33.83
I didn't want to be
challenged or confronted...
00:18:33.86\00:18:36.38
I was born this way...
00:18:36.42\00:18:38.04
and I used to try to explain
00:18:38.07\00:18:41.95
to people why I
didn't believed that,
00:18:41.98\00:18:43.87
but then I became aware that
00:18:43.91\00:18:45.59
a person's
perception is his reality...
00:18:45.62\00:18:47.82
and you can argue this
point and never get anywhere,
00:18:47.85\00:18:52.27
and then I realized,
the Bible doesn't argue
00:18:52.31\00:18:55.47
that point, because
we are all born "fallen"
00:18:55.51\00:18:59.07
and prone to following
Satan's plan for our life
00:18:59.11\00:19:02.64
in one way or
another, so, everywhere I go,
00:19:02.67\00:19:05.94
and probably you
too... you get this question,
00:19:05.97\00:19:08.22
what do you do
for people that say
00:19:08.26\00:19:10.44
they were born this
way? and I just say,
00:19:10.48\00:19:13.31
"It doesn't matter...
if someone is drowning
00:19:13.35\00:19:16.15
in the sea, does
it matter why... "
00:19:16.18\00:19:18.05
Hmmm... "God sent His Son...
00:19:18.09\00:19:20.86
as the
Savior... the lifeguard...
00:19:20.90\00:19:22.87
He doesn't interrogate you,
'How you got into this mess?'"
00:19:22.90\00:19:25.79
Hmmm... hmmm... "He
offers a helping hand... "
00:19:25.82\00:19:28.52
and then... the
words he said to Nicodemus,
00:19:28.56\00:19:31.23
I just think this is so neat...
00:19:31.26\00:19:33.36
if someone says,
"Well, I was born this way,"
00:19:33.40\00:19:35.86
I've had people say,
"I was born Italian...
00:19:35.89\00:19:38.32
I was supposed to be angry... "
00:19:38.35\00:19:39.40
and you can go down
the different cultures
00:19:39.44\00:19:43.63
and... you
know... "I was born German
00:19:43.66\00:19:46.81
and I'm supposed to
be... whatever... you know... "
00:19:46.84\00:19:49.38
Hmmm... hmmm... but Jesus says,
00:19:49.42\00:19:50.99
"Well, why don't
you just be born again?"
00:19:51.02\00:19:53.86
Hmmm... yes... and
then... He has an answer
00:19:53.89\00:19:56.69
for every gay
excuse and objection...
00:19:56.73\00:20:00.26
but it only resonates
with someone who loves truth...
00:20:00.29\00:20:03.72
Okay... if they
do not love truth,
00:20:03.75\00:20:06.28
God Himself could
not change Lucifer...
00:20:06.32\00:20:08.91
Hmmm... God cannot help people
00:20:08.95\00:20:11.66
that refuse to
acknowledge their need...
00:20:11.69\00:20:14.71
and so it all goes
back to the point of saying,
00:20:14.74\00:20:17.85
"Lord, this is a sin issue"
00:20:17.89\00:20:20.16
and Jesus says, "I
have the remedy for sin... "
00:20:20.20\00:20:22.93
Hmmm... hmmm...
"My Son... you know...
00:20:22.96\00:20:25.25
He has taken the
wages of sin upon himself,"
00:20:25.29\00:20:28.43
and the Bible gives
us the remedy for sin...
00:20:28.47\00:20:31.43
and so I just go
around that whole point
00:20:31.46\00:20:34.08
because even
psychiatrists and psychologists
00:20:34.11\00:20:36.60
and all kinds of
professional people,
00:20:36.63\00:20:38.10
can spend years
00:20:38.13\00:20:39.93
debating this issue...
00:20:39.96\00:20:41.39
and Jesus says,
"That's a non-issue...
00:20:41.43\00:20:43.87
let's go to the
solution... " Yes...
00:20:43.90\00:20:46.47
and He has it... Yes... yes...
00:20:46.51\00:20:47.87
and we all can
testify to that. Yes...
00:20:47.91\00:20:50.05
We all run
around people these days
00:20:50.08\00:20:52.20
and you say... in
a political world too
00:20:52.23\00:20:54.54
it's people saying,
"This is who I am... "
00:20:54.58\00:20:56.85
Yes... "This is who I am"
00:20:56.88\00:20:59.00
we forget who the
I am of I am is...
00:20:59.04\00:21:03.29
Hmmm... hmmm... and
so, even it was said in
00:21:03.33\00:21:07.12
Exodus and Jesus Himself
says, "I am the I am... "
00:21:07.16\00:21:11.77
Hmmm... How dare
we go around saying,
00:21:11.81\00:21:15.52
"This is who I am... " Hmmm...
00:21:15.56\00:21:18.31
when we don't any concept
00:21:18.34\00:21:21.90
of the "I am" Hmmm... hmmm...
00:21:21.93\00:21:23.93
so there is that
counterfeit again
00:21:23.96\00:21:26.52
Yes... of
identity and how we are
00:21:26.55\00:21:29.07
to identify in Christ...
00:21:29.11\00:21:30.72
Yes... and I think
that's the critical piece too...
00:21:30.76\00:21:33.62
the counterfeit... there's God's
00:21:33.66\00:21:36.01
plan for us... and then there's
the enemy's counterfeit...
00:21:36.05\00:21:40.41
Amen... amen... The
counterfeit itself...
00:21:40.44\00:21:42.64
Yeah... that's right...
The bottom line of sin...
00:21:42.68\00:21:45.98
is "self" it's self-serving...
00:21:46.02\00:21:48.33
self
justifying... self elevating...
00:21:48.36\00:21:50.94
Yes... self-explanation...
00:21:50.97\00:21:52.96
it's all about self... so,
regardless what sin it is...
00:21:53.00\00:21:57.60
and that is...
homosexuality is not
00:21:57.64\00:22:00.98
any greater sin
than any other sin...
00:22:01.01\00:22:04.28
And we need to make that
clear because this is not about
00:22:04.32\00:22:08.33
singling out
homosexuality and saying...
00:22:08.37\00:22:11.33
there is a
hierarchy of sins... Right...
00:22:11.37\00:22:14.26
homosexuality is at the top...
no... we have sexual sin period
00:22:14.30\00:22:19.66
It's usually the thing
that we are most unfamiliar with
00:22:19.70\00:22:24.38
is the thing
that we want to crown,
00:22:24.41\00:22:26.21
"it's somebody... oh
look... " you know...
00:22:26.24\00:22:28.80
and then these other sins
that are so common among us
00:22:28.84\00:22:31.76
become whitewashed...
Yes... very true...
00:22:31.79\00:22:33.21
Human nature
once it exalts itself
00:22:33.25\00:22:36.10
when we find someone else
who we can look down upon...
00:22:36.13\00:22:40.31
Very true... So, self-exalts...
00:22:40.35\00:22:42.39
Yes, yes... Lisa...
I just wanted to add
00:22:42.43\00:22:45.66
once we come to an
understanding of that...
00:22:45.69\00:22:48.91
"Homosexuality it's
just another sin... "
00:22:48.95\00:22:51.97
I think for parents
or whoever is struggling
00:22:52.01\00:22:55.00
with a someone who is gay,
00:22:55.04\00:22:56.22
that can break the
barrier in putting... I think...
00:22:56.26\00:23:01.32
because I think God has
revealed things in the family...
00:23:01.35\00:23:05.52
to break the
prejudices in our own hearts...
00:23:05.55\00:23:09.50
Hmmm... because
you know that it's not
00:23:09.53\00:23:11.01
God's will for anyone to
fall into sin or to be gay
00:23:11.04\00:23:13.92
but if God can use
that for His glory...
00:23:13.95\00:23:16.78
to bring healing to
the family as a whole...
00:23:16.81\00:23:19.60
Hmmm... hmmm... I think,
00:23:19.64\00:23:20.76
"Wow! God can turn
anything around for His glory
00:23:20.80\00:23:24.18
and his purposes...
" Yes... yes... yes...
00:23:24.22\00:23:25.33
And most of the
time homosexuality
00:23:25.37\00:23:27.49
is looked as a leprosy
00:23:27.53\00:23:28.79
it's modern day's
leprosy... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:23:28.83\00:23:30.88
but as we learn of Jesus
and the healing of the leper,
00:23:30.92\00:23:33.74
Hmmm... hmmm...
Jesus was willing to touch
00:23:33.78\00:23:36.69
the contagious
sores... God never meant
00:23:36.72\00:23:39.57
for someone to be
ostracized or separated...
00:23:39.60\00:23:43.16
Right... the whole purpose of
00:23:43.20\00:23:45.80
Jesus healing in
that was far reaching...
00:23:45.84\00:23:49.51
Sister White tells
us... was to reach the heart
00:23:49.54\00:23:53.39
of the Pharisee... Hmmm...
00:23:53.42\00:23:54.98
and so Jesus was uplifting
and upholding Levitical Law
00:23:55.02\00:23:58.63
sending the leper
to the High Priest...
00:23:58.67\00:24:01.21
to show yourself... so,
it's also the healing of the
00:24:01.24\00:24:05.60
homosexual... is to reach also
00:24:05.64\00:24:08.51
is God's far purposes of healing
00:24:08.54\00:24:11.28
is to heal that
person's heart...
00:24:11.32\00:24:13.99
And doesn't He do
that? Our God is so great,
00:24:14.02\00:24:17.47
He can make one
move and it just kind of
00:24:17.51\00:24:20.44
accomplishes
several different things...
00:24:20.47\00:24:23.54
you know... it's not
just a unilateral thing
00:24:23.57\00:24:26.57
He just does something and
it has like a ripple affect.
00:24:26.60\00:24:30.37
God is just...
such a great God...
00:24:30.40\00:24:32.54
Where do you see
your ministry going...
00:24:32.57\00:24:35.34
we only have three minutes left,
00:24:35.37\00:24:37.84
I can't believe
our time has gone
00:24:37.88\00:24:40.31
I know... I know...
so, what's your vision
00:24:40.34\00:24:43.83
for the ministry
because what I see going on
00:24:43.86\00:24:47.33
in Society now... I'm
just so concerned about
00:24:47.36\00:24:50.38
the way everything is
okay... everything is okay...
00:24:50.41\00:24:54.39
and so... where do
you see... 'Coming Out'
00:24:54.42\00:24:57.73
There's a loud voice on campuses
00:24:57.76\00:25:03.18
and universities and
even in grade schools now
00:25:03.22\00:25:06.04
again about being
just who you are...
00:25:06.07\00:25:08.65
Hmmm... hmmm... and
so... it's a lot of prayer
00:25:08.68\00:25:12.99
at this point that God
will open doors on campuses
00:25:13.02\00:25:17.30
and universities
and grade schools
00:25:17.33\00:25:20.15
that we can go in and
show by the grace of God
00:25:20.18\00:25:23.79
that there are redeemed
lives and what God can do for us
00:25:23.82\00:25:27.78
and in the process
of that... we've had...
00:25:27.81\00:25:31.71
mainly the older people...
00:25:31.75\00:25:35.26
people that have gone
before us who have been
00:25:35.29\00:25:37.43
so silent for so long...
that unless they have a grasp
00:25:37.46\00:25:40.56
on what the message
is... they're a little hesitant
00:25:40.59\00:25:43.65
about letting
someone come in and speak...
00:25:43.68\00:25:46.20
because it's also a
new message to them...
00:25:46.24\00:25:48.73
Right... but as I
see people grasping
00:25:48.76\00:25:52.02
our message because
everywhere we go to speak
00:25:52.05\00:25:54.93
people come...
pastors and the congregations
00:25:54.97\00:25:57.81
all come later and say,
00:25:57.84\00:25:58.95
"This is totally
different than what I expected
00:25:58.98\00:26:01.66
and I like it... " Yes...
00:26:01.70\00:26:03.30
and so, a little by
little, God is opening doors
00:26:03.34\00:26:06.39
and showing us where we are...
00:26:06.42\00:26:07.88
where He wants us to be...
00:26:07.92\00:26:09.31
The schools are so important...
because Satan is starting
00:26:09.35\00:26:15.81
so young... to
get to the children
00:26:15.85\00:26:18.61
and we have to get to
them... with God's message.
00:26:18.65\00:26:21.73
Each of us has been working
in our own spheres of influence
00:26:21.76\00:26:27.04
individually... it's
really, to me, fascinating
00:26:27.08\00:26:30.99
Mike is from East Tennessee,
00:26:31.02\00:26:32.53
and Virna and Lisa
are from California...
00:26:32.57\00:26:35.75
Wayne is from Washington...
I'm in the center of the Country
00:26:35.78\00:26:39.47
Hmmm... hmmm... Arkansas...
00:26:39.50\00:26:41.33
and we've each
been doing what we could
00:26:41.37\00:26:45.61
with the Lord's
blessing but as we have come
00:26:45.65\00:26:48.25
together...
what I have witnessed
00:26:48.28\00:26:49.93
as we have come together,
we have such a greater impact
00:26:49.97\00:26:53.84
when we appear at conventions,
General Conference, ASI,
00:26:53.88\00:26:57.71
and GYC... people come by...
00:26:57.75\00:27:00.60
and I've had a booth at these
00:27:00.64\00:27:02.36
places for years...
00:27:02.39\00:27:03.62
and there is some interest,
but there's been a lot of
00:27:03.66\00:27:06.49
timidity because I would
see people walk by my booth
00:27:06.52\00:27:09.00
and they look... and
they look very, very quickly
00:27:09.03\00:27:11.48
because, like, "Oh
if I look interested
00:27:11.51\00:27:13.02
then people might think
that this is my issue... "
00:27:13.06\00:27:14.98
Yes, yes, yes...
00:27:15.02\00:27:16.17
but when we were all
there together remember
00:27:16.20\00:27:17.43
we were mobbed...
00:27:17.46\00:27:19.42
and people would
come up and they'd say...
00:27:19.45\00:27:21.41
"Praise the Lord this is finally
being addressed in our Church"
00:27:21.44\00:27:24.89
collectively, we are able
00:27:24.92\00:27:27.11
to make much more of
an impact and then we go
00:27:27.15\00:27:30.02
our separate ways with
our individual ministries
00:27:30.05\00:27:32.99
because of the networking
00:27:33.03\00:27:34.11
that has come out
of the group and so...
00:27:34.15\00:27:37.32
I see 'Coming Out'
Ministries as a real catalyst
00:27:37.36\00:27:40.36
to really promote this message
of overcoming anything...
00:27:40.40\00:27:44.80
Yes... I know I'm talking...
00:27:44.84\00:27:47.42
well, I know our
time is about up so...
00:27:47.46\00:27:49.42
Oh, I can't even
thank you enough...
00:27:49.46\00:27:51.35
and Mike I wanted you
to be able to say something
00:27:51.38\00:27:53.54
but you know what...
we're going to carry this over
00:27:53.58\00:27:55.71
into your interview...
00:27:55.74\00:27:57.01
Thank you so much
and may God bless you...
00:27:57.05\00:27:59.38
in your ministry...
00:27:59.42\00:28:00.52
Thank you... and
may God bless you too...
00:28:00.56\00:28:02.13
And thank you so
much for joining us...
00:28:02.17\00:28:04.02
Tune in next time... it
just wouldn't be the same
00:28:04.06\00:28:06.54
without you...
00:28:06.58\00:28:07.71