Relationships are difficult
to navigate in this day and age,
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today's guests are
relationship experts...
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Stay tuned to find out
how you can make yours work...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
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Urban Report...
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Hello and
welcome to Urban Report,
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if you watched Dare to
Dream, our guests today
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are not strangers to you,
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they are the hosts
of "Making it Work"
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Dare to Dream's
relationship Program...
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Dr. Kim
Logan-Nowlin and Arthur Nowlin
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they're here in the Studio,
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not via Skype but
here in the Studio with us.
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Welcome to Urban Report, yeah...
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Thank you, Yvonne...
We're so glad to have you...
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You guys are doing
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such an amazing job on
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"Making it Work"
We appreciate that...
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we are so blessed to
have you as our hosts...
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That's great, that's great...
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I want to know... how
do you two make it work?
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Hmmm... Wow!
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Prayer... It has to be...
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I'm telling you
Yvonne, prayer, and also
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allowing him his own space...
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you know... humor...
being able to be open to that
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he told me the
other day... you know...
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"I can't joke with you...
" I said, "Yes, you can... "
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you know, and
after he walked away
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I was kind of sad... I
said, "that hit me... "
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you can joke
with me... you know...
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but you've got to be
open to the newness...
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the possibilities
of your relationship
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and then he's a
golfer... I'm not...
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I'm a shopper... let's
make it work all right...
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Conflict...
conflict... Is there a conflict?
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Absolutely...
Hmmm... no... no...
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because I think...
she spends more money...
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shopping... than I do on golf...
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Okay... all right... It
takes a lot to make this work
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all right... You
know what I noticed...
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and I really appreciated this...
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you guys have such
a great chemistry...
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you know, you've learned
to just kind of negotiate
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navigate through everything...
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and you've learned
how to make it work...
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and you're helping
others... Praise God...
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to do that... on the Program...
Praise God... praise God...
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Well, one of the things
that didn't come easy...
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it was trial and error...
but the most important thing is
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we kept trying...
there were times when
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we would just look at each
other and wonder why or how
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we would make it the
next day... or that day...
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but through the grace of
God... He always allowed us
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one particular...
I guess... defense...
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which I think is... we
have the power of prayer...
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and one of the things
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that we decided a
long time ago, Yvonne...
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was the fact
that... no matter what...
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that we would pray about the
situation before we go to sleep
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no matter... if it's something
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that was really jeopardizing
our relationship that day
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we would still pray
about it... Hmmm... hmmm...
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prayer is the "Only
Thing" that has managed
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to keep us together
for all these years...
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Oh yes... You
know, it's so important
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for our Viewers to hear this
because sometimes they look at
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people that are hosting
Programs and they think,
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"Oh well, their
relationship is perfect... "
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No relationship is perfect
because no people are perfect...
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That's right... So,
there are going to be issues
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every couple has
issues... That's right...
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and the fact
that you have learned
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that "prayer is the
answer" and it's not just some
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pat answer... No...
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but prayer is the
answer... because that's what
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kind of helps you...
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I would imagine that
when you pray to together...
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you can't really be
that angry with each other
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when you're
praying for each other...
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I know... sometimes he has
reached out and I was angry...
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to... you know... "Would
you like to have prayer?"
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and I wanted to say, "No"
but the Spirit of the Lord said,
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"I'm going to
tell you the truth"
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but I would take his hand
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and sometimes I would take
his hand like... whatever...
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but the Lord said, "No,
you can't be like that...
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he can tell the difference...
" but if I said... Hmmm...
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but if you want good balance...
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you can't do it
without the Spirit of the Lord
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and you have to release
what your flesh is telling you
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to do... because
you have choices...
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God gives us...
He's a "free will God"
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and He gives us a
choice every day...
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and I made a
choice, I took those vows...
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I made a commitment... you
know, he's a loving husband,
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and loving father, at
times I'm very controlling
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Hmmm... At times?
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I knew he was going to
say that, there we go...
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and I can just take
charge and make it work...
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but we know our roles,
we know where we are...
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and he will say...
"There are times, Kim, you know,
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this is your strength...
this is my strength...
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and when my faith is
weak, your faith is strong,
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when yours is weak...
I'm strong for you... "
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and you've got to know
how to have each other's back
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that balance has to be there...
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you've seen that little exercise
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when you lean
back into your spouse,
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will they catch you...
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some spouses let
their spouses fall...
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Wow... yes... okay,
we've seen that happen...
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but Arthur has been
there to catch my back...
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and he's always said,
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"I need you to
have my back, Kim... "
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Yes... you
know, that's been very
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important to
him... and, you know,
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in our inner-cities...
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the relationships
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and the focus is so... usually
it's just so twisted right now,
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you know... what
are some of the cases...
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that... you guys
practice... in Detroit...
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That's right... and
what are some of the cases
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that you have in
terms of relationship...
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and relationship-building
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and conflict and all that...
what kinds of cases do you have?
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One of the things
that's prevalent...
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and that stands out... to me...
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is we find a lot of
selfishness, Hmmm...
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in the relationship... Hmmm...
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people have
gotten to a certain point
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where the love is not as intense
as it was in the beginning...
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and what happens is that
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they find other things
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to occupy them and to
make them feel comfortable
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and somewhere along the line,
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there's a division that
occurs and if it's not addressed
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then what happens
is... it tends to go out
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into different directions...
and cause a lot of friction...
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Hmmm... so, how do you get
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that person back... or
how do you get the marriage
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back on track... and
you know... sometimes
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with the selfishness...
there's a resistance
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that exists... that
really, really is the barrier...
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to reconcile the
marriage itself...
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That's such a good
point, so, how do you then...
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when you have a couple that
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was once connected...
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and they have disconnected...
it's usually so hard
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to get them to
re-connect... Hmmm... hmmm...
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what kinds of
steps do you take...
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especially people who
don't know the Lord...
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Hmmm... hmmm... What do you do
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with couples who
don't know the Lord...
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how do you get them back...
what kinds of steps do you take?
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The first step that we
always emphasize is that
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we have to increase
our communication...
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Okay... we encourage
them to take a risk...
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the risk is...
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okay... where you
know you're not doing
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particular things...
that you used to do...
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now we're encouraging you to do
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things that are
going to assist you...
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in salvaging your
marriage... Okay...
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Communication is one...
and I know, Kim is very adamant
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about a "Date
Night" Date Night...
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Okay, come on...
come on... A Date Night...
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don't mess with my Date Night
now... our Date Nights are...
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You guys have a
Date Night? Yes...
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I love it... we start off at
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breakfast and
then we go to Costco...
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Oh wait a minute...
now... wait a minute now...
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wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...
wait, wait, wait, wait...
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Okay, so you're
into shopping right?
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We just found out...
that you're into shopping...
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So, it kind of
sounds like this Date Night
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is a little bit... kind
of... it's your favorite...
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We detour and we...
we end up at the Mall...
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and we'll end up
at the Museum Okay...
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we've gone to the
Museum together...
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or the Park... on our way...
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we were on our way to
speak to do a "Family Life"
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in Illinois...
and we stopped to get
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something to eat... and
we stopped at a Rest Area...
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and we didn't get a chance
to do a Date Day... that day
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so my husband pulled over...
he said, "Let's have our picnic"
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Oh, spontaneity... I love it...
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Those are the things
you have to remember...
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why did you get
connected in the first place...
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why were you married...
and something that I utilize
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and it's really important
in political propaganda...
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"Before you can reconstruct...
you have to deconstruct... "
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Hmmm... explain... explain...
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Okay now, what you do is...
go in and tear off the layers...
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Okay... Tear the layers off...
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selfishness, that independence,
the low self-esteem...
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we got to get to the root
of where this all started...
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then we begin to
reconstruct... Hmmm...
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and we build up
new layers... Hmmm...
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so that you're going to look
at yourself... differently...
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It's interesting because
from a physical perspective
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as a Naturopath... you
cleanse and then you rebuild...
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That's right...
so you're saying...
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it's basically the same concept
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you deconstruct
and reconstruct...
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Because you got to
get all the waste out...
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Yes... detoxify...
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Detoxify... Girl...
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and if you
don't... it's going to come
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right back in again...
and it's going to poison
00:09:07.42\00:09:10.08
your relationship and you
are going back to square one...
00:09:10.12\00:09:11.86
But let me
emphasize once again...
00:09:11.89\00:09:14.48
risk... you know...
because nothing happens
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unless you're willing
to change the behavior...
00:09:17.77\00:09:20.97
Hmmm... and
that's very important
00:09:21.00\00:09:23.09
so we want to
modify this behavior...
00:09:23.12\00:09:25.46
this behavior that's
been causing us confusion
00:09:25.50\00:09:28.07
this behavior that's
causing us all types of anger...
00:09:28.11\00:09:31.11
towards each other...
so now, let's take a risk
00:09:31.15\00:09:34.36
to do something
different... because if we both
00:09:34.40\00:09:37.58
if we both come to an agreement,
00:09:37.62\00:09:39.51
where we want to
resolve our issues,
00:09:39.55\00:09:41.41
we want to have a happy marriage
00:09:41.44\00:09:42.80
okay so now... what do
we need to do differently?
00:09:42.83\00:09:46.18
And I think one of the things
that's really significant...
00:09:46.21\00:09:50.13
when our clients come to us is
00:09:50.16\00:09:52.62
we have to get
them on the same page...
00:09:52.65\00:09:54.91
we have to let them know
that from this point on...
00:09:54.95\00:09:59.60
whatever has happened...
00:09:59.64\00:10:00.69
you need to
forgive that situation
00:10:00.73\00:10:02.82
and move on... if you're
willing to resolve the issue...
00:10:02.85\00:10:05.99
If you are willing to resolve
and that is one of the places
00:10:06.02\00:10:09.12
where they stay
stuck... because, you know,
00:10:09.16\00:10:11.68
you did this to me...
in one of our cases...
00:10:11.72\00:10:14.20
the wife committed
adultery... Okay...
00:10:14.24\00:10:16.51
and when they came in... I
was like, "Hi, how are you?"
00:10:16.55\00:10:20.46
married 4 months... it blew...
00:10:20.50\00:10:23.10
that's the kind of look
I had... it blew me away...
00:10:23.13\00:10:25.44
Wow! and I guess...
00:10:25.47\00:10:26.76
there's no one
perfect, you know Right...
00:10:26.80\00:10:28.80
but again... he found out
by... she left her phone...
00:10:28.83\00:10:32.12
and he never had a
reason to check her phone
00:10:32.16\00:10:34.08
for four and a half
years... but this day...
00:10:34.11\00:10:35.96
he broke down in Church...
she got out to go into the store
00:10:36.00\00:10:39.59
the phone was sitting
there... he said, "Just... "
00:10:39.63\00:10:41.82
it was the Holy
Spirit... because he would have
00:10:41.85\00:10:44.01
never known...
and he confronted her
00:10:44.05\00:10:45.77
she lied... he got out of
the car and started walking...
00:10:45.81\00:10:48.61
and they had an
outburst right there
00:10:48.64\00:10:50.82
in the middle of the Freeway...
and from there on... he says,
00:10:50.86\00:10:54.88
"If we don't get some help...
" and so it's been a very hard
00:10:54.91\00:10:58.90
four weeks... they
just started with us...
00:10:58.93\00:11:00.43
Hmmm... hmmm...
and then... last week
00:11:00.47\00:11:02.61
she found out she
was pregnant, by him...
00:11:02.65\00:11:04.76
Okay... but he says,
00:11:04.79\00:11:06.55
"Dr. Logan, how do I
separate what she's done
00:11:06.59\00:11:08.88
versus being
excited about the baby... "
00:11:08.91\00:11:11.03
Hmmm... And see,
you're talking about
00:11:11.06\00:11:13.14
four years of being together
00:11:13.18\00:11:15.32
dating, and getting
to know each other...
00:11:15.35\00:11:17.83
but what we
found out was that...
00:11:17.87\00:11:21.99
even during the four years...
00:11:22.03\00:11:23.71
she was still engaged
with her ex-boyfriend...
00:11:23.74\00:11:27.61
Hmmm... hmmm... You know...
00:11:27.65\00:11:28.86
So she has a
monogamy issue, Yes...
00:11:28.90\00:11:31.48
she's not able to
really commit to one person...
00:11:31.51\00:11:35.54
And then, digging
deeper into the relationship...
00:11:35.58\00:11:39.57
and trying to help
them resolve issues...
00:11:39.61\00:11:42.44
we found out
that... at an early age
00:11:42.47\00:11:44.96
she was sexually
molested... Oh...
00:11:45.00\00:11:46.77
And look at the family
origin... That's right...
00:11:46.81\00:11:48.61
you always have to
take that into account...
00:11:48.64\00:11:50.41
So when they come in, I say,
00:11:50.44\00:11:52.48
"Tell us the story...
00:11:52.51\00:11:53.63
tell me a story... Hmmm...
00:11:53.66\00:11:55.64
you know, part of
my Clinical and Therapy
00:11:55.68\00:11:59.40
in my Speech Pathology... I
took... Oral Communication and
00:11:59.44\00:12:03.21
Oral Interpretation
and Storytelling Classes...
00:12:03.24\00:12:05.10
Okay... because when I preach...
00:12:05.13\00:12:06.47
I incorporate
stories... both Arthur and I
00:12:06.50\00:12:08.66
incorporate
stories... Oh, wonderful...
00:12:08.70\00:12:10.83
People love stories...
00:12:10.86\00:12:11.93
yeah... people love
stories... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:11.96\00:12:13.06
so when they come in... I
said, "First thing I do...
00:12:13.10\00:12:15.23
if we go through
getting on this mission...
00:12:15.26\00:12:16.91
I sit back like this... I said,
00:12:16.95\00:12:18.75
"I'm listening...
tell me your story"
00:12:18.79\00:12:20.92
Hmmm... So, when
we talk about steps...
00:12:20.96\00:12:23.06
we're talking
about "Communication... "
00:12:23.10\00:12:25.45
we're talking
about "Taking Action"
00:12:25.49\00:12:27.77
and we're also talking
about "Forgiving Each Other"
00:12:27.80\00:12:32.76
Yes... How do I... I've been...
00:12:32.80\00:12:35.29
I mean, I'm the "husband"
now, I've been cheated on...
00:12:35.32\00:12:39.09
I've been with this
woman for four years...
00:12:39.13\00:12:41.24
and when I say... because
if somebody just tunes in...
00:12:41.28\00:12:44.28
they're going to wonder
what I'm saying... Oh no...
00:12:44.31\00:12:48.07
Okay, let's say, I'm a
wife... that had a husband that
00:12:48.11\00:12:51.83
was just
consistently cheating on me...
00:12:51.87\00:12:55.64
how do I forgive that...
00:12:55.67\00:12:57.82
how... and two questions...
00:12:57.86\00:12:59.93
how do I forgive that...
and then how do I rebuild trust
00:12:59.97\00:13:03.69
in this person that has
consistently cheated on me?
00:13:03.73\00:13:07.99
And this is a very significant
issue because this is so
00:13:08.02\00:13:12.25
ubiquitous.. Oh my goodness!
00:13:12.28\00:13:14.80
so many relationships have
infidelity involved that...
00:13:14.84\00:13:19.59
it's just... I
mean... it's everywhere, so
00:13:19.63\00:13:21.93
how do you forgive
that... and how do you rebuild?
00:13:21.96\00:13:26.33
There's a Program with
12-Step Program in AA...
00:13:26.36\00:13:30.70
which is Alcoholics Anonymous
and Narcotics Anonymous
00:13:30.73\00:13:35.46
Hmmm... hmmm.. and one
of the sayings that they
00:13:35.50\00:13:38.34
indicate to the people
coming into the Program is
00:13:38.38\00:13:41.19
"One day at a time... "
00:13:41.22\00:13:42.79
Hmmm... okay, so
you're living in the moment...
00:13:42.83\00:13:45.85
In the moment...
especially when you're talking
00:13:45.89\00:13:48.88
about trust
issues... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:13:48.92\00:13:51.02
trust issues that
have been dissipated
00:13:51.06\00:13:53.47
and now we're at a
point where we need to
00:13:53.50\00:13:56.21
re-engage and try
to build that trust...
00:13:56.24\00:13:58.86
so, today
00:13:58.90\00:14:00.40
I'm going to love you
00:14:00.44\00:14:02.02
and today I'm
going to support you
00:14:02.06\00:14:05.64
in everything you do...
00:14:05.68\00:14:06.97
and today... I'm not
bringing up the past...
00:14:07.00\00:14:09.51
no matter
what... No matter what...
00:14:09.54\00:14:12.25
and it's just like if an athlete
00:14:12.29\00:14:14.93
made a decision that they want
to do well in a particular sport
00:14:14.96\00:14:20.06
they have to come
up with a routine...
00:14:20.10\00:14:22.34
they have to practice... Hmmm...
00:14:22.37\00:14:24.28
and so... it's just like
us... when we make a decision...
00:14:24.31\00:14:28.01
that we want to change behavior,
00:14:28.05\00:14:30.27
we have to implement the change
00:14:30.30\00:14:32.46
and practice it
on a daily basis Wow!
00:14:32.49\00:14:35.35
but the most important
thing that has to be established
00:14:35.39\00:14:39.69
even if you're not a Christian,
00:14:39.73\00:14:42.39
we still have to get to
a point where we can share
00:14:42.42\00:14:46.37
and meditate with each other,
prayer is recommended from us,
00:14:46.40\00:14:50.70
when they come into our
office, we indicate to them
00:14:50.74\00:14:54.17
that this is a
Christian Counseling service...
00:14:54.21\00:14:55.49
We've had Atheists come in...
00:14:55.52\00:14:56.73
Really... and
what do you tell them?
00:14:56.76\00:14:59.56
They tell me, "I've
tried everything else...
00:14:59.59\00:15:01.94
I don't want to do this
but you came highly recommended
00:15:01.98\00:15:05.37
but don't talk
about God, please... "
00:15:05.41\00:15:07.58
by, I mean, the
fifth or sixth session...
00:15:07.62\00:15:09.76
they say, "We
need to pray... " Wow!
00:15:09.80\00:15:12.37
"It is God... it is
God... " Praise the Lord...
00:15:12.41\00:15:14.25
and God has sent
them there... Yes...
00:15:14.28\00:15:15.78
I want to go back to
something that I just said about
00:15:15.82\00:15:17.46
risk-taking... if
you're taking a risk
00:15:17.49\00:15:20.13
to move forward... then you
don't need to go backwards...
00:15:20.16\00:15:22.41
Yes... Oh,
that's a great point...
00:15:22.44\00:15:24.22
I'm looking in the
rear-view stop looking there...
00:15:24.26\00:15:25.72
you know... go forward...
00:15:25.76\00:15:27.06
and you made a
commitment to go forward...
00:15:27.09\00:15:29.37
but this is what happens to
a lot of relationships, Yvonne,
00:15:29.40\00:15:32.24
they pull that stuff right
back again... that poison...
00:15:32.28\00:15:34.51
they forget to detox...
you've done it... it's over...
00:15:34.55\00:15:36.75
Yes... and what
I did last week...
00:15:36.78\00:15:38.28
he took all the phone records...
00:15:38.31\00:15:39.74
I said, "Bring all
your phone records...
00:15:39.78\00:15:40.89
bring all the phone
records... " and we went in
00:15:40.92\00:15:43.59
to the restroom in my
office, and I burnt them...
00:15:43.63\00:15:46.27
Hmmm... they held
them in their hands
00:15:46.30\00:15:47.80
and then they let them sink...
00:15:47.84\00:15:49.05
we threw them into
the sea of forgiveness...
00:15:49.09\00:15:50.77
Hmmm... It is over, you know,
00:15:50.80\00:15:53.23
but what
happened the next day...
00:15:53.27\00:15:54.64
he found out that she
sent pictures of herself
00:15:54.68\00:15:57.11
nude to her boyfriend before...
a day before the wedding...
00:15:57.14\00:16:00.37
he said, "Dr.
Logan, as soon as I let go,
00:16:00.41\00:16:02.99
something else comes out... "
00:16:03.02\00:16:04.77
and I said, "Well, you
know, that's the enemy's job...
00:16:04.81\00:16:06.94
okay... and we...
and she can't change...
00:16:06.98\00:16:10.02
she doesn't remember everything,
00:16:10.06\00:16:11.81
but, I'm asking the
Lord to expose her...
00:16:11.84\00:16:14.23
let the stuff come
out... " Hmmm... hmmm...
00:16:14.27\00:16:16.30
because they're
such a beautiful couple
00:16:16.34\00:16:18.34
and they love each other...
but again, the forgiveness,
00:16:18.37\00:16:21.46
taking that risk... he
has cried... he has cursed...
00:16:21.49\00:16:23.75
he has hugged...
00:16:23.79\00:16:25.32
I just separated
them the other day...
00:16:25.36\00:16:26.98
Really... put them
in the waiting lobby...
00:16:27.02\00:16:28.61
and now she's pregnant...
you got to calm down...
00:16:28.64\00:16:31.58
and she has Lupus...
so we got a lot of outside
00:16:31.61\00:16:34.51
contributing
factors... It's got layers...
00:16:34.54\00:16:36.50
layers... All of
these layers, you know,
00:16:36.53\00:16:38.45
we're not unidimensional...
00:16:38.49\00:16:40.83
so, when you're
dealing with these issues...
00:16:40.87\00:16:43.77
you know, you got this
issue, on top of this one...
00:16:43.80\00:16:46.07
on top of this
one... and it is just...
00:16:46.11\00:16:47.68
It is something!
It is something...
00:16:47.72\00:16:49.52
We want to show
you something, okay...
00:16:49.55\00:16:51.12
"Arthur, I have been
calling you for 10 hours...
00:16:51.15\00:16:53.52
where have you been?"
00:16:53.56\00:16:55.07
"Kim, it's not any of your
business where I've been... "
00:16:55.10\00:16:57.61
"What do you mean...
'it's not any of my business?'"
00:16:57.64\00:16:59.10
"You know, because... "
00:16:59.13\00:17:00.25
"Why can't you pick up
the phone don't talk to me...
00:17:00.28\00:17:01.37
don't say anything to me... "
"See Kim, that's your problem"
00:17:01.41\00:17:03.75
"It's not my problem... "
"That is your problem... "
00:17:03.78\00:17:05.49
"You're my problem... "
"Now, Kim, I'm not your problem"
00:17:05.52\00:17:07.20
"You know what! this
is why I want out... "
00:17:07.23\00:17:08.69
"The issues that
you've been carrying in... "
00:17:08.73\00:17:10.30
"This is why we can't
communicate... all right!"
00:17:10.33\00:17:11.87
"You don't want... no more...
or no faster than I ever... "
00:17:11.91\00:17:13.87
"Whatever, whatever... okay"
00:17:13.91\00:17:15.76
"See, and you've been
going to that pastor...
00:17:15.79\00:17:18.02
and talking about your issues,
00:17:18.05\00:17:19.58
and it's not doing you
any good" "You know what!
00:17:19.62\00:17:21.85
one of us has got to go...
and it's not going to be me!"
00:17:21.89\00:17:23.53
"Kim, I'm already gone... "
00:17:23.56\00:17:25.43
And that's what we see... Wow!
00:17:25.46\00:17:28.94
That's what we see...
00:17:28.97\00:17:30.08
That was intense!
00:17:30.12\00:17:31.20
We see it every day... one
day, one of our staff person
00:17:31.23\00:17:34.41
I heard say, "Mr. Nowlin,
Mr. Nowlin, it's very quiet. "
00:17:34.45\00:17:37.19
He says, "Stop it... " you know,
00:17:37.22\00:17:40.19
because he will let them
go get it out and vent...
00:17:40.23\00:17:42.63
Hmmm... hmmm...
because one of our rules...
00:17:42.66\00:17:44.74
"You can't discuss anything
outside of the therapy session"
00:17:44.78\00:17:48.71
Hmmm... hmmm... you
got to work on the skills
00:17:48.75\00:17:50.26
that we give you to
work on... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:17:50.29\00:17:52.00
Not even in the
car... Not even in the car...
00:17:52.03\00:17:53.67
Oh, so when you leave...
when that couple leaves...
00:17:53.70\00:17:56.57
they don't talk about it,
until they come back again.
00:17:56.61\00:17:59.13
Yeah, they work on other things
00:17:59.17\00:18:00.38
that we've given them to do...
00:18:00.42\00:18:01.60
Issues that were really
brought up in the session...
00:18:01.64\00:18:06.32
where it causes a lot of pain,
00:18:06.35\00:18:08.18
we don't want
them to talk about it
00:18:08.22\00:18:09.76
when they get in the
car... and go home because...
00:18:09.80\00:18:11.84
it's going to
continue to bring up pain...
00:18:11.88\00:18:13.85
and they may say something
that really is difficult...
00:18:13.89\00:18:16.47
And they don't have the
tools yet to negotiate this...
00:18:16.51\00:18:19.05
you know...
so... because again...
00:18:19.09\00:18:21.40
before you can reconcile
you got to reconstruct it...
00:18:21.43\00:18:24.12
you got to look at restoration,
how can I restore something
00:18:24.15\00:18:27.35
if I'm not reconciled with it...
00:18:27.38\00:18:28.50
Yeah, and what you guys
don't want them to do is...
00:18:28.54\00:18:31.99
is to continue that damaging
pattern of confrontation
00:18:32.02\00:18:35.44
Yes, yes... the
way they're confronting
00:18:35.48\00:18:36.91
each other is so damaging... Oh!
00:18:36.95\00:18:38.62
You can't take back some things,
so it's better to just...
00:18:38.65\00:18:42.22
knock it...
right... right... right...
00:18:42.25\00:18:44.14
How did you guys get
into this kind of work?
00:18:44.18\00:18:47.29
You seem so well
suited for it. Well... God...
00:18:47.33\00:18:50.41
Through the
grace of God... Yeah...
00:18:50.44\00:18:53.52
I was doing things in the
area of substance abuse and
00:18:53.55\00:18:56.58
doing workshops
and seminars with
00:18:56.62\00:18:59.54
an agency that I
was working for...
00:18:59.57\00:19:02.42
Kim was in private
practice at the time...
00:19:02.46\00:19:05.67
and she was doing a
lot of communication
00:19:05.70\00:19:09.19
what was it...
Seminars, workshops, right...
00:19:09.22\00:19:11.74
"Speak for Success"
00:19:11.77\00:19:13.21
right... and
different things I was doing
00:19:13.24\00:19:14.62
but what really brought
me to this... was that...
00:19:14.65\00:19:17.04
my childhood... my parents...
and we are very transparent
00:19:17.08\00:19:20.51
and on the
Program... you've seen it...
00:19:20.55\00:19:22.00
you know, my parents went
through a divorce when I was 12
00:19:22.04\00:19:24.39
and I wanted to understand...
00:19:24.43\00:19:26.04
and I had several
speech impediments
00:19:26.08\00:19:27.72
so that's why I did a
degree in Speech Pathology...
00:19:27.76\00:19:30.30
in Oakwood and A
and M... and then...
00:19:30.34\00:19:32.74
Talk about sublimation...
right Come on now...
00:19:32.77\00:19:34.67
Come on... come on...
So I wanted to understand
00:19:34.71\00:19:36.86
what was wrong with
me... why wasn't I connecting?
00:19:36.90\00:19:39.02
and then the
Counseling was something
00:19:39.06\00:19:41.21
that I needed to
understand, you know,
00:19:41.24\00:19:43.33
I wanted to get into
the behavior modification
00:19:43.36\00:19:45.17
"Why couldn't my
parents stay together?
00:19:45.21\00:19:47.06
What was going on
in the household?"
00:19:47.10\00:19:48.88
Hmmm... hmmm... and
then later on in life
00:19:48.91\00:19:50.37
I found out that my
father was a substance abuser
00:19:50.41\00:19:52.44
through my
husband... and I talk about that
00:19:52.47\00:19:54.80
because Arthur interviewed
me for the new season...
00:19:54.84\00:19:56.75
Who was a substance
abuser? My father...
00:19:56.79\00:19:57.84
Your father... okay... I
didn't think alcohol was a
00:19:57.88\00:20:00.05
"substance abuse" I
didn't think it was...
00:20:00.08\00:20:02.22
Oh... okay... because
it wasn't talked about
00:20:02.25\00:20:04.03
in the Church... it
was never talked about...
00:20:04.07\00:20:05.81
My background is
"Substance Abuse"
00:20:05.84\00:20:06.92
I pointed out some situations
and I had to provide her
00:20:06.95\00:20:11.72
with certain
information and that's when the
00:20:11.75\00:20:14.49
"light" came on
for her... Yes...
00:20:14.53\00:20:16.62
but one of the reasons
we came together as far as
00:20:16.65\00:20:19.67
this counseling...
I think in therapy...
00:20:19.71\00:20:22.59
we both were
looking for an opportunity
00:20:22.63\00:20:25.12
to give back to our
Community... Hmmm...
00:20:25.16\00:20:27.62
we saw a lot of devastation...
00:20:27.65\00:20:29.18
I think you and I
were talking about that...
00:20:29.22\00:20:31.58
Hmmm... hmmm... and
we wanted to offer more
00:20:31.62\00:20:33.65
and so we really talked
in... we really came together
00:20:33.69\00:20:38.69
but we also
recognized that both of us...
00:20:38.72\00:20:41.66
we had issues that
we had to deal with
00:20:41.70\00:20:44.56
before we can go out
and talk to other people...
00:20:44.60\00:20:48.11
Hmmm... That's
right... shut it down...
00:20:48.15\00:20:49.52
don't try... you
can do more damage...
00:20:49.55\00:20:50.84
And even along the way,
Yvonne, along the way we clashed
00:20:50.88\00:20:55.36
and then all of a
sudden, we would make a decision
00:20:55.39\00:20:57.85
of how we would
resolve those issues...
00:20:57.88\00:21:00.61
but in the meantime...
we're taking notes...
00:21:00.65\00:21:02.71
of what worked for us...
00:21:02.75\00:21:04.29
And then, you
know, God is so good...
00:21:04.33\00:21:05.94
because every time
someone comes into our office...
00:21:05.98\00:21:07.59
we kind of look
at each other like...
00:21:07.63\00:21:08.81
"Did we just go through that...
00:21:08.84\00:21:10.51
did the Lord just
deliver us from that?"
00:21:10.55\00:21:13.03
and the Lord said,
"Be ye also ready... "
00:21:13.06\00:21:15.29
Hmmm... hmmm... and
so, "many are called
00:21:15.33\00:21:17.51
but few are chosen... "
when they don't accept the call,
00:21:17.54\00:21:19.19
so, when we get
a case... I'm like
00:21:19.23\00:21:21.33
"Wow! did we just do that?"
00:21:21.37\00:21:22.64
I said, "That's
Kim, my goodness"
00:21:22.67\00:21:25.45
when they
leave... I'm going to say,
00:21:25.49\00:21:27.73
"Do you see what
I'm talking about?"
00:21:27.76\00:21:29.93
We're dealing with
a case right now...
00:21:29.97\00:21:33.10
Now this man is me...
and the wife is Arthur...
00:21:33.14\00:21:36.31
I'm like, "Wow!" and I
say, "Stop it... stop it"
00:21:36.34\00:21:39.48
Wow! isn't that
amazing that God allows you
00:21:39.52\00:21:43.22
to also see yourselves
in those that come in...
00:21:43.26\00:21:46.44
so that you can
guide them... Yes...
00:21:46.48\00:21:49.28
That's part of maturity...
we've got to be open to growth
00:21:49.31\00:21:51.30
and maturity...
and a lot of times...
00:21:51.34\00:21:53.21
we don't want to grow...
00:21:53.24\00:21:54.27
we want to stay in
our comfort zone...
00:21:54.31\00:21:55.49
Well, change is
hard... Change is hard!
00:21:55.52\00:21:57.92
and it's uncomfortable... Yes...
00:21:57.96\00:21:59.61
you know... That's the risk...
00:21:59.64\00:22:01.94
that's the risk... Exactly...
00:22:01.98\00:22:03.85
Or you won't move right...
00:22:03.89\00:22:05.69
and then it
impacts your self-esteem
00:22:05.73\00:22:08.24
you become depressed...
the other layers come in...
00:22:08.27\00:22:10.89
and then in looking at other
people who are progressing...
00:22:10.93\00:22:14.16
and now... you're hating on us
00:22:14.20\00:22:16.86
because we're doing
things in our lives...
00:22:16.90\00:22:18.65
Yes... We found
out that it's really
00:22:18.69\00:22:21.42
important for us
to be transparent...
00:22:21.46\00:22:24.16
Oh yes... We don't want to give
00:22:24.20\00:22:27.32
the perspective that
we know everything...
00:22:27.36\00:22:31.20
because we don't...
but one of the things...
00:22:31.24\00:22:33.21
that is so significant to me
is, I was talking to a friend
00:22:33.24\00:22:37.78
who is doing
marriage seminars now...
00:22:37.81\00:22:40.22
Hmmm... hmmm... and yesterday,
00:22:40.26\00:22:41.70
he and I were talking
00:22:41.74\00:22:42.88
and we were saying that...
as we continue to mature...
00:22:42.92\00:22:47.50
as we continue to be
involved in relationships...
00:22:47.54\00:22:51.25
that we are constantly in
change... you know because
00:22:51.28\00:22:54.95
we're dealing with
different personalities...
00:22:54.99\00:22:57.65
Yes... even though
I may reach a point
00:22:57.69\00:23:00.67
where I am trying to
increase my knowledge
00:23:00.70\00:23:03.62
and develop certain skills
to improve my relationship,
00:23:03.65\00:23:07.34
my spouse may be
looking at things
00:23:07.38\00:23:09.73
from a different perspective
of how she could increase
00:23:09.77\00:23:12.40
her knowledge
and deal with things
00:23:12.44\00:23:13.98
in a different
perspective... it doesn't mean
00:23:14.02\00:23:16.17
that we're coming together...
00:23:16.21\00:23:17.51
we could talk
about coming together...
00:23:17.54\00:23:20.25
Hmmm... but still
we grow differently
00:23:20.29\00:23:22.96
and it's really... it
takes a lot of work for us
00:23:23.00\00:23:25.86
to move forward...
00:23:25.90\00:23:27.09
That's such a good point...
that you grow differently...
00:23:27.13\00:23:30.21
the key is... even though
you're growing differently...
00:23:30.24\00:23:33.17
you don't grow apart...
00:23:33.21\00:23:35.71
You got to keep it merged...
You got to keep it merged...
00:23:35.74\00:23:37.83
Yeah... You know... and again...
00:23:37.86\00:23:39.61
a lot of people forget
the tools they take away
00:23:39.65\00:23:42.76
and they put that flesh in there
and it's the "I" syndrome...
00:23:42.79\00:23:46.30
it's all about what I
want... No, we're a team...
00:23:46.33\00:23:48.86
and Arthur and I do this thing,
00:23:48.89\00:23:50.28
I thought we
were on the same team
00:23:50.32\00:23:51.41
Hmmm... hmmm... and
then when we got married...
00:23:51.45\00:23:53.38
and we're on the same
team... well, you know,
00:23:53.42\00:23:55.28
why are we having this battle
that we're pulling us apart...
00:23:55.31\00:23:57.95
and then how it
impacts the children...
00:23:57.98\00:24:00.13
it's just... and
again... the layers... and then
00:24:00.17\00:24:02.83
Arthur will say in a
workshop or seminar...
00:24:02.86\00:24:05.14
"You have to be
careful... your choice
00:24:05.17\00:24:07.85
impacts everyone else...
it's like a ripple effect... "
00:24:07.88\00:24:11.17
Yes... Okay...
00:24:11.20\00:24:12.35
So often... and I
read this in some books...
00:24:12.39\00:24:16.25
relationship books...
that... you don't think that
00:24:16.28\00:24:19.54
your choices impact your
family, so, you want this...
00:24:19.57\00:24:22.76
you want this
extramarital affair,
00:24:22.79\00:24:24.82
so, nobody's going to know,
00:24:24.85\00:24:26.98
who really cares... it's
not going to hurt anybody...
00:24:27.02\00:24:28.90
Well, yeah, it
does... It does...
00:24:28.93\00:24:31.00
the whole family is
affected... The Church...
00:24:31.04\00:24:33.45
Everybody... And
if Satan can destroy
00:24:33.48\00:24:35.32
the family... he
destroys the Church...
00:24:35.36\00:24:37.39
That's what's
going on right now...
00:24:37.43\00:24:39.43
Yeah... oh yeah... he
is targeting the family
00:24:39.46\00:24:43.01
that's why we have such
dysfunctional families...
00:24:43.04\00:24:46.55
Oh yes... and we
have single-parent
00:24:46.59\00:24:48.57
households... before we go...
00:24:48.61\00:24:50.52
I can't believe
our time is all up...
00:24:50.56\00:24:52.82
I want to do
another Program with you...
00:24:52.85\00:24:55.91
but, what do you see
going on in the Church
00:24:55.95\00:24:58.86
that we're not
really addressing...
00:24:58.89\00:25:01.48
what issues do you
see in the Church...
00:25:01.52\00:25:03.78
that we're really
need to focus on...
00:25:03.81\00:25:06.49
One of the things
that's paramount...
00:25:06.52\00:25:08.76
is our
relationship with our youth...
00:25:08.79\00:25:11.00
Hmmm... Our youth are...
00:25:11.03\00:25:12.70
Suffering... they
are really perplexed...
00:25:12.74\00:25:15.66
as to... how they play a
role in this Church today...
00:25:15.70\00:25:21.41
Hmmm... Kim works
really well with our
00:25:21.45\00:25:23.89
young people... you
know... I'm really impressed
00:25:23.93\00:25:26.66
and they have a lot
of respect for her...
00:25:26.69\00:25:29.86
because she takes
risks... and she goes...
00:25:29.89\00:25:32.98
and she participates with them
and she speaks their language...
00:25:33.02\00:25:36.50
Hmmm... and they
want somebody to be
00:25:36.54\00:25:39.18
upfront and real with them...
00:25:39.21\00:25:41.51
so we have to have a real
relationship with our youth
00:25:41.54\00:25:44.15
and get them
involved to the extent where
00:25:44.18\00:25:46.90
they can be on a Board
Meeting, they can participate
00:25:46.94\00:25:50.56
in our different programs
that we offer in a Church
00:25:50.59\00:25:54.18
instead of sitting
back and being served...
00:25:54.22\00:25:56.58
they can
participate to the point where
00:25:56.62\00:25:58.92
they are seriously involved
as an active participant...
00:25:58.95\00:26:03.37
Hmmm... hmmm... Another issue...
00:26:03.40\00:26:04.44
is substance abuse...
it's not really talked about
00:26:04.47\00:26:06.96
in the Church...
abuse, domestic violence,
00:26:07.00\00:26:10.22
and incarceration...
00:26:10.25\00:26:12.80
Yes... are you guys doing
workshops and things like that
00:26:12.84\00:26:17.39
tell us... we have like
a minute and a half left...
00:26:17.43\00:26:20.34
tell us what you're doing...
00:26:20.38\00:26:21.75
Right now... we're working
with two half-way houses...
00:26:21.79\00:26:26.30
Hmmm... In Detroit...
00:26:26.34\00:26:27.89
In Detroit... Michigan...
00:26:27.93\00:26:29.45
That's wonderful...
00:26:29.48\00:26:30.52
Both of them are
male half-way houses and
00:26:30.56\00:26:31.91
we deal with substance abuse
00:26:31.95\00:26:34.54
and we're
providing group therapy
00:26:34.58\00:26:36.79
tremendous results
with these programs...
00:26:36.82\00:26:39.65
Praise the Lord... And
then with the Family Life...
00:26:39.69\00:26:41.96
we're co-directors of
the Lake Region Conference...
00:26:42.00\00:26:44.24
Oh... okay... and
so, we're on the road
00:26:44.28\00:26:47.51
every weekend...
providing support and help
00:26:47.55\00:26:50.72
and skills... and helping people
know that "you're not alone"
00:26:50.75\00:26:54.31
Yes, yes... I can't
believe our time is up...
00:26:54.34\00:26:58.22
you know
what... I knew before...
00:26:58.26\00:26:59.41
before you guys came...
00:26:59.44\00:27:00.88
I knew that this
was just going to be...
00:27:00.91\00:27:02.81
you just know... some
interviews are going to be fun
00:27:02.84\00:27:05.01
and some are going
to be kind of dry...
00:27:05.05\00:27:06.33
but you... saved by
chance have been wonderful...
00:27:06.36\00:27:10.45
Thank you... for all you
do for the cause of Christ...
00:27:10.49\00:27:12.29
We appreciate
that... we love you...
00:27:12.32\00:27:14.48
We love you guys
and are so appreciate
00:27:14.51\00:27:16.73
everything that you're doing...
00:27:16.76\00:27:18.06
We love you too...
because you took a risk on us...
00:27:18.09\00:27:19.15
You took a risk...
00:27:19.19\00:27:20.39
Well, the Lord is
so good... He impresses
00:27:20.42\00:27:22.92
as to who we should
have and all that...
00:27:22.96\00:27:25.47
so God is good...
and He provides...
00:27:25.51\00:27:27.55
Amen... Amen...
00:27:27.58\00:27:28.68
Well, we have come to
the close of another...
00:27:28.72\00:27:31.68
I started to
say, "Making it Work"
00:27:31.72\00:27:33.32
It's okay... Go ahead...
00:27:33.35\00:27:37.15
another Urban Report...
thank you so much for tuning in
00:27:37.18\00:27:40.02
you know that the
family is so important...
00:27:40.05\00:27:43.77
pray for our families...
pray for our Churches...
00:27:43.80\00:27:47.35
pray for our young people,
get involved in your Church...
00:27:47.39\00:27:51.05
in your youth
groups... all of these things...
00:27:51.09\00:27:53.37
you must really, really know
00:27:53.41\00:27:56.23
that God has a
special plan for you...
00:27:56.27\00:27:58.83
Join us next time... it
just wouldn't be the same
00:27:58.87\00:28:01.71
without you... Amen...
00:28:01.74\00:28:02.98