There's an issue that has
quite a hold on our men...
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Men of every station in life
are caught up in its grip...
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Today you'll meet a
Pastor that had an addiction
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to pornography... stay tuned...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
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Urban Report...
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Hello and welcome
to Urban Report...
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According to toptenreviews.
com 28.8 million U.S. men
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regularly visit
pornography websites...
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50 to 60
percent of Christian men
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struggle with
addiction to porn...
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Today our guest is Pr.
Bernie Anderson, Author,
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Counselor,
Pastor and Lecturer...
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Welcome to Urban
Report Pastor Bernie...
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Hi there Yvonne,
thanks for having me...
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Oh, thank you so much for coming
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we really appreciate your
taking the time out to do so...
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Absolutely... it's
good to be with you...
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You've written a book entitled
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"Breaking the Silence: A
Pastor Goes Public About His
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Battle with Pornography"
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would you share a bit
with us about your journey
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with the whole addiction...
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Sure,
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it's been quite a
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quite a journey that's
a good way to put it...
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its... in fact, I
remember coming up with the
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phrase... that any
journey worth taking
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involves a climb...
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and that's really
what's this has been about...
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it's been a climb out
of a really deep, dark hole
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that unfortunately
many men find themselves in
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and I was no
exception as a Pastor...
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I was exposed to
pornography at the age of nine
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and from that point
forward it seemed that
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any time... throughout
my life as I developed
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as I grew up as a young man...
throughout my adolescent years
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and into my early adult years,
I came across... pornography...
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and I wasn't
necessarily looking for it
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but there it was...
and so from that experience
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of just kind of
growing up in a culture where
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pornography was accessible...
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I learned to depend on it
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for... sort of an escape...
a way to deal with stress
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and anxiety... and
just a way to kind of
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get through life...
life's difficult challenges
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and so forth... so,
that pattern continued
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unfortunately...
into my adult years
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and as the pornographic industry
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became more
technologically advanced
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as the internet
emerged... I found that...
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it was something that
I could not stop doing...
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it was something secret...
it was something quiet...
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something that...
I just sort of did
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when no one was
looking and no one was around
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and once the
internet came online...
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I believe it was
around 1996, '97...
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it was that much more powerful
the delivery system was...
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was even with dial-up internet
if you remember those days...
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Yeah... pornography was still
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quite captivating
online and I remember just...
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out of curiosity...
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I said, "You know, I'm
going to check this out...
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just to see what it's like... "
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no one knew that I did this...
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I was a full-time
pastor serving in the Church
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and this is something I
just sort of stumbled across
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one day out of curiosity...
and from that day forward
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it was just an
on-going battle...
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Wow, well let's go
back for a second...
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because I think that
it's important for our viewers
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to know how it starts... so
you said that you were nine,
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nine years old when you were
first exposed to pornography
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was that because
it was in the home...
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was it because you picked up
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a magazine...
how did that happen?
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Good question... it was...
really it was just a matter of
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stumbling across it
in the home of a relative
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I was actually staying
at a relative's home...
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and I was one of those
kids that just... sort of...
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rambled through people's
homes searching for treasures...
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and there it
was... in a closet...
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there was a box
there... I opened the box...
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and someone had discarded the
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pornographic magazines...
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they just sort of crumpled
it up and ripped it apart
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and threw it in this
box and there I was...
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searching through this
box and I was able to unfold
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those pages... and sort
of put them back together
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and there it was...
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Wow! you know what Pastor
Bernie it's interesting because
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sometimes when we
let our children go
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to other people's
homes... we don't really know
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what goes on
there... and I think
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it's not a matter of... you
can't protect your kids 24/7
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of course... but it's
very important to kind of know
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where your children are
going... and to really kind of
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keep a tight rein on
them... especially now-a-days
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when so many things can go on...
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so, you were over
at someone else's house
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and you found this...
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what effect did it
have on you at that age?
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Well, at that age
I think I was just...
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I wasn't sure what to
think... I hadn't had a sex talk
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with my parents...
I didn't understand
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what it was... I understood,
maybe just as a young boy, that
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"Man, this is quite
interesting, yeah... "
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Right... right... I
really didn't understand
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what was going on
and I had a sense that
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maybe it was "bad" you know...
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Right, right,
right... and so, I put it away
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and just sort of
made a mental note
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and while at the same time
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I knew it was bad...
and I kind of sensed that
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maybe I should come back
and look at it again... you know
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Yes... but
that's a nine-year-old
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little boy...
trying to figure out
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something very,
very powerful, so...
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And that seed was
planted... that seed was planted
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at that point... Yes... yes...
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and so it was a
little bit less difficult...
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to venture into it
again... at fifteen...
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so what happened... at 15...
how did you get re-exposed to it
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Yeah... at 15... actually I
think it was more like 13...
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I remember being at
my home... at my own home
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and finding an unmarked VHS
tape on top of the television
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right next to the
VCR... unmarked... and again...
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I was the child of a
single parent... and so...
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no one was at home with
me, I was a latchkey kid...
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I get home...
there is this VHS tape
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I'm going to pop it in... I mean
that's just what you do at 13...
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and see what's on this
tape... Right... right...
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And sure enough...
there was pornography...
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on this tape... and I
don't know who it belonged to
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I don't know how it
wound up in my house
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but there it was...
and I watched that tape...
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and you know...
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and it was
another level of exposure
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it was another
delivery system for something
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that I experienced back
at 9... but here it was...
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sort of... in living color
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in a much more potent medium
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so, it was powerful...
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and from that point on... I...
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especially as an adolescent
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young boy... I think it began to
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sort of... take
root... so to speak...
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Yes, now, at the same time...
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were you watching programs
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kind of... sexually explicit
types of programs on television
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were you listening to music
that could draw you into that...
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where were you... spiritually...
as a teenager... where were you?
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Yeah, you know, this was really
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a new beginning
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spiritually for me...
I'd recently come into
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the Seventh-day Adventist
Church I'd been baptized
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and all of this... was sort of
happening at the same time, so
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spiritually...
I'm really conflicted
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because I'd been
exposed to this pornography...
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I'm looking at this stuff...
there are probably some movies
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and some music that
I've seen and watched
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that weren't the best
for me... but you know...
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it wasn't all the
time... it wasn't as intense
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as perhaps it is today...
because access wasn't as...
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as easy back in those days...
you know you had to have a VCR
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you had to have cable...
and we didn't always have
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those things...
so... it was hit or miss...
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but there was certainly
a spiritual battle going on
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within me... because
I knew that some of the
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things I was seeing... whether
it was pornography or not
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and then some of the
music that I was listening to...
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all played a factor in...
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in sort of... how
I was developing as a
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as a young man...
and as a Christian...
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Yes, isn't it
interesting how Satan works...
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he plants a seed...
in your childhood...
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and then waters it
some... in your adolescence...
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and this begins to
draw you into this web...
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he knows our buttons... and
so he will push those buttons
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and draw you
into that web of sin
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and before you know
it, you're caught up...
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so, how did you get
"caught up" into porn?
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Yeah, and I would
just add to that...
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if you add in the factor of
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personal,
familial family dynamics...
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if you come from a broken home,
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if you come from a
home where there was abuse,
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if you come from a home
where there was constant arguing
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or neglect or
abandonment, those things
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play into it as well...
because I think the human heart
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longs to look for
something that gives it meaning
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and we long to
look for something
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that will help us feel better
about life and about ourselves
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and so... as a young kid whose
parents were recently divorced
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I had very distant
relationship with my father
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I think that those
things... also played into it...
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the beauty of it was that I
came into a Church that really
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embraced me as a
young man, it said,
00:10:04.67\00:10:06.38
"Hey, we love you... and we
want to be in your life... "
00:10:06.41\00:10:10.29
and so, God... at the same time
00:10:10.33\00:10:12.27
the enemy was working...
God was also working out
00:10:12.30\00:10:15.62
this plan... so
that I would know Him...
00:10:15.66\00:10:19.32
so that I'd be in a Church
where people cared and loved me
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so... Yes, and I think
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that's a very
important point to make
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that even though
we know that the enemy
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knows us and knows our buttons,
00:10:28.37\00:10:31.78
we also serve an omnipotent God,
00:10:31.81\00:10:36.40
who can deliver us
from this... Yes... amen...
00:10:36.43\00:10:39.37
and who also knows more about
us than the enemy of course...
00:10:39.41\00:10:43.76
Yes... absolutely...
He knows what we need
00:10:43.80\00:10:45.92
and He knows our situation
so that's an interesting point
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and the other
thing that you said...
00:10:49.46\00:10:50.53
I think we need to emphasize too
00:10:50.57\00:10:52.38
and that is the
familial dynamics here
00:10:52.41\00:10:55.38
because... one of the
things that is so plaguing us
00:10:55.42\00:11:00.04
as a Society...
is fatherlessness...
00:11:00.08\00:11:03.02
Yes... It is that role model
00:11:03.06\00:11:05.49
of a strong father...
00:11:05.53\00:11:07.17
to kind of guide you through
00:11:07.20\00:11:09.83
this journey of life...
and if you don't have that
00:11:09.87\00:11:12.56
then you kind of get
caught up in... into...
00:11:12.59\00:11:15.31
you get
detoured... Yes... yes...
00:11:15.34\00:11:16.64
and so, I think you
hit a detour when you had
00:11:16.67\00:11:21.83
this
experience... and so... again...
00:11:21.86\00:11:25.46
tell us how you got caught up
now... what else happened to you
00:11:25.50\00:11:29.76
that just led you into
full-fledged addiction?
00:11:29.80\00:11:32.96
Yeah, I think it was... again...
just sort of a matter of
00:11:32.99\00:11:36.56
doing life and coping with
life without a lot of guidance
00:11:36.59\00:11:40.49
in the areas of
sex and sexuality...
00:11:40.52\00:11:42.59
and the Church...
while it was there...
00:11:42.63\00:11:45.64
it was there... but
it wasn't there to...
00:11:45.67\00:11:48.61
it didn't do a good job of
informing and instructing and
00:11:48.65\00:11:51.54
giving guidance in this
area so, as with any person
00:11:51.57\00:11:55.47
you just sort
of... go through it
00:11:55.51\00:11:57.80
and make it up as you
go along it's an education
00:11:57.84\00:12:01.10
that you... you
just self-educate
00:12:01.14\00:12:03.49
and unfortunately... we tend
to do that in a negative way
00:12:03.53\00:12:07.38
if we don't have
proper guidance so...
00:12:07.41\00:12:10.19
sort of this slow drift
down into this dark place
00:12:10.23\00:12:15.73
was a matter of getting
caught up in the internet...
00:12:15.76\00:12:21.23
once that came around
00:12:21.26\00:12:22.77
videos got better...
in terms of technology...
00:12:22.81\00:12:27.44
DVDs and so forth... so,
access and the ability to
00:12:27.47\00:12:32.07
maintain
anonymity... Hmmm... hmmm...
00:12:32.11\00:12:33.68
became very, very... very...
it made pornography that much
00:12:33.71\00:12:38.39
more enticing... so...
whereas... in the past...
00:12:38.43\00:12:41.58
I had to risk being seen
00:12:41.61\00:12:43.12
going into some
seedy pornographic shop
00:12:43.15\00:12:47.29
once the internet came along,
once technology got better,
00:12:47.32\00:12:51.22
I could look at pornography
in the privacy of my own home
00:12:51.26\00:12:55.12
and no one was
around... and so, that really...
00:12:55.15\00:12:57.77
in fact I would
say... that many, many men...
00:12:57.81\00:13:00.35
who struggled prior to
the internet coming online,
00:13:00.39\00:13:03.61
I'm sure that once
the internet came along...
00:13:03.65\00:13:06.58
and they discovered
it... there was a major spike
00:13:06.62\00:13:09.54
in people moving more into a
deeper addiction of pornography
00:13:09.58\00:13:13.38
as opposed to before...
where you really had to work
00:13:13.41\00:13:16.31
to see it... to get pornography
you had to risk being seen
00:13:16.34\00:13:20.06
and one of the most
powerful things about it is that
00:13:20.10\00:13:23.05
it can be anonymous, no
one has to know about it
00:13:23.09\00:13:25.98
and you can just
consume it without interruption
00:13:26.02\00:13:28.83
in the privacy of your own home,
and that's the path that I took.
00:13:28.87\00:13:32.51
Yes... isn't it interesting
again... secrecy and the whole
00:13:32.54\00:13:37.42
clandestine
aspect of it... Yes...
00:13:37.45\00:13:40.01
that's also... something that
the devil uses with affairs...
00:13:40.05\00:13:44.72
you know... it's just
you and the other person
00:13:44.75\00:13:47.82
and the secrecy involved...
makes it more exciting...
00:13:47.85\00:13:51.89
the enemy is
really... he does what he does
00:13:51.93\00:13:56.40
well, he's had thousands
of years to kind of perfect it
00:13:56.44\00:14:01.75
so, he does what he does well...
00:14:01.78\00:14:03.37
but again... we
serve an omnipotent Savior
00:14:03.41\00:14:06.32
who can save us from
the grips of the dark hole
00:14:06.36\00:14:11.35
and you
mentioned that "dark hole"
00:14:11.38\00:14:13.11
so, where were you
when you were at your
00:14:13.15\00:14:16.32
very bottom... what
was rock bottom for you?
00:14:16.35\00:14:19.45
Yeah, well, you know... let
me back up just a little bit
00:14:19.49\00:14:22.98
unfortunately, rock
bottom wasn't at the place
00:14:23.02\00:14:26.43
when my wife discovered it...
00:14:26.46\00:14:28.09
this was a deep,
dark secret of mine...
00:14:28.13\00:14:30.06
that I brought from 9 years
old through my teenage years
00:14:30.10\00:14:34.36
into a marriage
now... with the woman I love,
00:14:34.39\00:14:38.26
and my greatest fear was
always that she would find out
00:14:38.30\00:14:43.55
because I did not
want her to find out
00:14:43.58\00:14:45.28
Hmmm... hmmm... I
wanted God just to fix me
00:14:45.31\00:14:48.00
and take care of me
before she ever discovered it
00:14:48.03\00:14:50.03
and she would never have to know
00:14:50.07\00:14:51.14
she would never have
to experience the pain...
00:14:51.18\00:14:53.01
because I knew that it
would cause her great pain...
00:14:53.05\00:14:55.13
so, unfortunately, rock bottom
wasn't when she did find out
00:14:55.16\00:14:59.73
because inevitably I
think spouses do discover it...
00:14:59.77\00:15:03.12
and they do know...
they come to find out...
00:15:03.15\00:15:05.81
and so there would be
another year to two years
00:15:05.85\00:15:08.47
after she had discovered it...
00:15:08.50\00:15:09.76
and after I had said,
"Yes, this is my problem"
00:15:09.79\00:15:13.24
that she would
continue to discover me
00:15:13.27\00:15:15.92
and find that I
had been acting out...
00:15:15.96\00:15:18.54
find that I had been
looking at pornography
00:15:18.57\00:15:21.40
secretly when she wasn't around
so really "rock bottom" was
00:15:21.44\00:15:26.66
when she was going to be
gone for a couple of weeks
00:15:26.70\00:15:29.95
she always took the
kids to Camp Meeting
00:15:29.99\00:15:32.66
in another
Conference... every summer...
00:15:32.70\00:15:35.34
and I was left
at home by myself...
00:15:35.38\00:15:37.27
to continue to do ministry,
and work and so forth...
00:15:37.30\00:15:40.59
and being alone... for someone
00:15:40.63\00:15:44.11
who struggles with this
00:15:44.15\00:15:45.32
is a very, very difficult
thing, and I found myself alone
00:15:45.35\00:15:48.82
and found myself unable
to resist the temptation
00:15:48.85\00:15:52.00
and the urge... and I
just went headlong into
00:15:52.03\00:15:54.76
a binge over the
next... you know... week...
00:15:54.79\00:15:57.48
and it was at the
end of that binge...
00:15:57.52\00:16:00.33
and at the end of a
period where I had a sense...
00:16:00.36\00:16:04.64
and really I kind
of knew that my wife
00:16:04.67\00:16:08.27
wasn't going to
return... in fact, she had said
00:16:08.30\00:16:11.71
in her own heart that
I can't go back to him...
00:16:11.75\00:16:15.06
I'm going to let...
I'm not going to go back
00:16:15.10\00:16:18.35
and maybe that will just shake
him out of this... insanity
00:16:18.38\00:16:21.65
that he's in... and
that was rock bottom...
00:16:21.68\00:16:24.67
I remember throwing my hands up
00:16:24.71\00:16:27.01
and I just
started pleading to God,
00:16:27.05\00:16:29.67
"Why can't I get through this...
why is it such a struggle...
00:16:29.70\00:16:33.45
why can't you fix
me, what's wrong... "
00:16:33.49\00:16:37.02
and that was it...
I just felt lost...
00:16:37.06\00:16:40.53
I felt like there is nothing
God could do for me anymore...
00:16:40.56\00:16:45.46
I felt like my wife was going to
00:16:45.49\00:16:48.08
leave me... or wasn't
going to be around anymore...
00:16:48.11\00:16:50.41
now it was going
to be difficult...
00:16:50.45\00:16:51.89
I had pretty much become...
00:16:51.92\00:16:53.54
I decided that I was going to
00:16:53.58\00:16:55.32
lose my ministry
00:16:55.36\00:16:56.79
and not be a pastor anymore
00:16:56.82\00:16:58.24
and I wasn't sure
00:16:58.28\00:17:00.47
what was going to happen to me
00:17:00.51\00:17:02.36
Hmmm... because I was just...
00:17:02.40\00:17:03.74
I was devastated...
00:17:03.78\00:17:05.25
I had no idea what
was going to happen...
00:17:05.28\00:17:07.18
So, at that point...
you were just like...
00:17:07.21\00:17:09.08
in the depths of despair...
00:17:09.11\00:17:10.38
Yes... I mean
there was no place else
00:17:10.41\00:17:12.31
to go but up... at that point...
00:17:12.35\00:17:14.21
you were losing your wife,
00:17:14.24\00:17:15.83
and... you know what...
I think we need to briefly
00:17:15.86\00:17:18.82
look at... how this
affects the spouse...
00:17:18.85\00:17:22.15
as well... like what...
00:17:22.19\00:17:24.02
since you've been
healed and delivered...
00:17:24.05\00:17:27.57
praise God from this...
00:17:27.61\00:17:28.91
how did your
wife express her pain?
00:17:28.94\00:17:32.12
Well, it's a very difficult
position for the spouse and
00:17:32.15\00:17:37.05
typically it's the
woman in most cases...
00:17:37.09\00:17:39.74
to deal with it...
because there's a deep sense
00:17:39.78\00:17:43.18
of a broken trust
there... deeply hurt and wounded
00:17:43.22\00:17:46.42
because this person
that they invested so much in
00:17:46.45\00:17:49.35
has lied to
them... essentially Hmmm...
00:17:49.39\00:17:52.40
and so they're angry
and yet at the same time
00:17:52.44\00:17:55.31
they want to show
grace and be understanding
00:17:55.35\00:17:58.03
at some level...
because they love their spouse
00:17:58.06\00:18:00.71
and in my case as a pastor...
00:18:00.74\00:18:02.52
my wife doesn't want to expose
me to any sort of... you know...
00:18:02.55\00:18:06.00
she didn't want
people to know about this...
00:18:06.03\00:18:07.71
so she wants to
maintain the secret
00:18:07.75\00:18:08.85
Hmmm... yet at the same time...
00:18:08.88\00:18:10.74
she's dealing with her own anger
00:18:10.78\00:18:12.61
then she's wondering...
00:18:12.64\00:18:14.53
"Well what on
earth is wrong with me,
00:18:14.57\00:18:16.24
why does he have to go
look at that... when he has me,
00:18:16.27\00:18:19.71
what's wrong with me?" so
there are multiple emotions
00:18:19.75\00:18:23.16
that a woman feels
when they've gone through
00:18:23.19\00:18:26.96
this experience...
and been betrayed...
00:18:27.00\00:18:28.99
and my wife... was the
same... and she was angry...
00:18:29.02\00:18:32.05
she was hurt... she wondered
what was wrong with her...
00:18:32.08\00:18:34.76
if you were to talk to her
today she would tell you that
00:18:34.80\00:18:37.44
her self-esteem
was just in the tank...
00:18:37.48\00:18:40.95
Yes... so, she
just felt worthless
00:18:40.98\00:18:44.33
and she couldn't
understand it, I mean...
00:18:44.37\00:18:47.17
there's total bewilderment
for, I think, for females...
00:18:47.21\00:18:50.87
for women especially...
they just cannot grasp... why?
00:18:50.90\00:18:55.10
Why does a man need to go
there... and dwell there...
00:18:55.14\00:18:59.31
you know... Yes...
yes... so how did you
00:18:59.34\00:19:02.50
get out... what happened
00:19:02.54\00:19:04.52
to bring you out
from this... this place?
00:19:04.56\00:19:06.94
Yeah, you know, it's in the
same way that we talked about
00:19:06.97\00:19:10.65
there's this
"dark hole"... Yes...
00:19:10.69\00:19:12.79
there's light that
must come in and really...
00:19:12.83\00:19:17.55
it was a matter of
exposing, you know,
00:19:17.59\00:19:21.16
bringing the light
into a very dark place...
00:19:21.20\00:19:23.73
and so... God whispered to me
00:19:23.77\00:19:26.50
what He had been
trying to attempt
00:19:26.53\00:19:29.13
to communicate to me
all along... and that is...
00:19:29.16\00:19:31.74
"Tell someone... open
up to someone, confess... "
00:19:31.77\00:19:34.32
Hmmm... yes... yes...
00:19:34.35\00:19:36.06
"bring some
light into your life"
00:19:36.10\00:19:37.70
and so I called up a friend...
00:19:37.74\00:19:39.28
someone that you
and I both know...
00:19:39.31\00:19:42.42
and... Pastor Mike
Tucker of "Faith For Today"
00:19:42.46\00:19:45.48
Oh yes... A very dear friend...
00:19:45.51\00:19:47.34
and I called
him up and I said...
00:19:47.37\00:19:48.94
"Can we talk?" and
he came over to my house
00:19:48.97\00:19:52.10
and in the
midst... just right there
00:19:52.14\00:19:55.14
in my living room... I
finally had enough courage
00:19:55.18\00:19:57.63
you know... after
being at rock bottom...
00:19:57.67\00:19:59.40
and I said...
"I will do whatever
00:19:59.43\00:20:01.95
but this is my struggle...
00:20:01.98\00:20:03.52
this is my
problem... and I need help...
00:20:03.56\00:20:05.85
and I'm just broken and I
have nowhere else to turn"
00:20:05.89\00:20:09.45
and so I turned to
him... as a friend...
00:20:09.48\00:20:12.61
and he prayed with
me... and said that,
00:20:12.65\00:20:15.09
you know, "Hey, I
will be here for you...
00:20:15.13\00:20:17.50
whatever you need... "
00:20:17.54\00:20:18.90
and that began the journey
00:20:18.94\00:20:22.13
and that was the
light that needed to shine
00:20:22.17\00:20:25.50
into that dark place... Yes...
00:20:25.54\00:20:27.70
that began a... you know... the
00:20:27.73\00:20:29.82
God's opportunity to
create a breakthrough in my life
00:20:29.86\00:20:33.62
began at that moment...
00:20:33.65\00:20:34.68
Yes... so the first
thing you did was...
00:20:34.72\00:20:36.88
you prayed and you were
in your deepest darkest place
00:20:36.91\00:20:41.82
of despair... you
prayed... and then...
00:20:41.85\00:20:44.32
you shared it with
someone that you trusted...
00:20:44.36\00:20:47.90
Yes... because
again that secrecy...
00:20:47.94\00:20:51.57
for your wife too...
because you are a pastor...
00:20:51.61\00:20:54.41
that secrecy keeps you
bound up, Hmmm... it does...
00:20:54.44\00:20:55.94
you had to tell... someone...
00:20:55.97\00:20:58.60
so that's the second step...
what was the next thing you did?
00:20:58.64\00:21:01.92
And then the next
step was to begin to walk
00:21:01.95\00:21:05.18
in that journey... to
begin to pursue those things
00:21:05.22\00:21:09.22
that are pure and
right and holy and good...
00:21:09.26\00:21:12.08
and that's so much of a
tougher journey to take...
00:21:12.12\00:21:16.52
because... now you
have to actively...
00:21:16.56\00:21:19.62
you know... begin
to do things that you
00:21:19.66\00:21:22.65
weren't doing before...
but that don't come as natural
00:21:22.69\00:21:25.81
Like what... such as what?
00:21:25.85\00:21:27.48
Such as, well, you know,
00:21:27.51\00:21:29.26
my life before...
00:21:29.29\00:21:30.50
as I was
indulging in pornography was
00:21:30.53\00:21:32.19
all about the
"secret" it had to be quiet...
00:21:32.22\00:21:34.58
and there was really
a paranoia with my life
00:21:34.62\00:21:36.95
because I was constantly
looking over my shoulder
00:21:36.98\00:21:39.17
wondering who knows
my secret, you know,
00:21:39.21\00:21:41.47
Yes... yes... yes...
00:21:41.51\00:21:42.57
well, now I'm
going to walk in light...
00:21:42.61\00:21:44.14
I want everyone to
see into my life...
00:21:44.17\00:21:46.77
I want my internet
activity to be seen...
00:21:46.80\00:21:49.36
so, whereas I
would go into a room
00:21:49.40\00:21:51.78
and shut the
door and be online...
00:21:51.82\00:21:54.46
well my computer is going to be
00:21:54.50\00:21:55.77
out in a very
public place now...
00:21:55.81\00:21:57.73
Ah ha... and my conversations
00:21:57.76\00:21:59.61
are going to be
very open and vulnerable
00:21:59.65\00:22:03.29
and I want more people to
see... not just the external
00:22:03.33\00:22:08.95
but to see into my
heart if that makes sense...
00:22:08.99\00:22:12.13
because no longer do
you want to live in darkness
00:22:12.17\00:22:15.43
but the whole orientation
of your life has to become
00:22:15.46\00:22:18.50
that you are...
that you are authentic...
00:22:18.53\00:22:21.39
that you're transparent...
that people can see the real you
00:22:21.42\00:22:25.64
not just the "you" that
you want other people to see
00:22:25.68\00:22:28.54
and so... here's a
phrase that I came up with
00:22:28.57\00:22:31.08
through all of
this and that is...
00:22:31.12\00:22:32.28
"I would rather be
admired than known... "
00:22:32.32\00:22:35.62
Oh... when you think about that
00:22:35.65\00:22:37.61
a lot of people live that way...
00:22:37.64\00:22:39.53
and so in the midst
of this deep darkness...
00:22:39.56\00:22:42.30
that's where I
began to live, is...
00:22:42.34\00:22:46.10
that I'm okay with
people admiring me...
00:22:46.13\00:22:48.26
because they
don't really know me...
00:22:48.30\00:22:50.40
Hmmm... and so with that...
00:22:50.43\00:22:52.10
there has to be a
change in every man's heart
00:22:52.14\00:22:53.86
to where they decide that...
00:22:53.90\00:22:55.56
I need to be "One Person"
that people see... all the time
00:22:55.60\00:23:00.89
and it needs to
be the same person...
00:23:00.92\00:23:02.62
Yes... yes... not
that separate person here
00:23:02.65\00:23:07.12
that the public sees...
and then the private guy...
00:23:07.16\00:23:09.76
is somebody totally
different... Exactly...
00:23:09.80\00:23:12.04
That's great... so... how
do you maintain sobriety...
00:23:12.07\00:23:19.60
how do you keep it there?
00:23:19.64\00:23:20.92
Yeah, that's the real
key and, you know, I think...
00:23:20.96\00:23:25.83
I think accountability is huge
00:23:25.87\00:23:28.59
and I think just the...
again the whole orientation
00:23:28.62\00:23:32.57
and philosophy of
your life, if you will,
00:23:32.61\00:23:34.73
has to be that... "I'm
going to live in such a way
00:23:34.77\00:23:37.85
that people can
see my whole life... "
00:23:37.88\00:23:41.01
and that's what I
do... so, if I'm online...
00:23:41.05\00:23:44.39
let me speak in a
more practical sense...
00:23:44.43\00:23:47.44
then... if I'm online...
then someone always knows
00:23:47.48\00:23:50.46
that I'm online... my wife knows
00:23:50.50\00:23:52.16
when I'm on the computer, I
have "Accountability Software"
00:23:52.20\00:23:56.74
on my computer that
sends a log to specific people
00:23:56.77\00:24:00.50
so that they know where
I've been on my computer...
00:24:00.54\00:24:04.23
Hmmm... hmmm... so,
since my major area of
00:24:04.26\00:24:06.95
challenge was the internet,
00:24:06.99\00:24:09.09
then that's where I need to have
the greatest light and exposure
00:24:09.12\00:24:13.11
and it may be that others
struggle with magazines or DVDs
00:24:13.15\00:24:18.55
or other things...
then they need to make sure
00:24:18.59\00:24:21.59
that there's
"light" in that dark place
00:24:21.62\00:24:24.15
where they tend
to run to and hide...
00:24:24.18\00:24:26.57
so for me... the
internet has always been
00:24:26.60\00:24:28.93
a great struggle and a challenge
so, I have a great deal of
00:24:28.96\00:24:32.69
accountability
there... on the internet
00:24:32.73\00:24:35.93
very often, I limit
myself... I discipline myself
00:24:35.97\00:24:39.75
not to just surf the internet...
00:24:39.79\00:24:41.63
I don't think there's
really any need to just casually
00:24:41.67\00:24:44.68
browse the web... I
think you have to go on
00:24:44.72\00:24:47.12
with a purpose...
there's a reason why I'm
00:24:47.15\00:24:49.68
going online... and
that's where I stick to...
00:24:49.71\00:24:53.36
and that doesn't
change... so, it's a matter of
00:24:53.39\00:24:57.01
adding some significant
intentional disciplines
00:24:57.04\00:25:00.87
to the life...
00:25:00.91\00:25:02.47
that I really think are powered
00:25:02.50\00:25:04.67
by the Holy Spirit...
because the Holy Spirit
00:25:04.71\00:25:07.62
wants us to live a
pure, holy, righteous life...
00:25:07.65\00:25:10.52
but God is also
aware of the fact
00:25:10.56\00:25:13.75
that we live in a world
00:25:13.78\00:25:14.83
that is driven by all
kinds of lusts and desires
00:25:14.86\00:25:19.27
and there's pornography and
there are all sorts of things
00:25:19.31\00:25:21.70
So God comes
along... a side of us
00:25:21.73\00:25:24.18
and empowers us to begin to do
00:25:24.21\00:25:26.59
some of these things that make
a huge difference in our lives.
00:25:26.63\00:25:29.06
Pastor Bernie...
thank you so much...
00:25:29.10\00:25:32.09
this is such great
information because...
00:25:32.12\00:25:35.53
so many people are caught up
in the grip of this addiction
00:25:35.56\00:25:39.48
thank you so much for
sharing your story with us
00:25:39.51\00:25:43.08
and I encourage our
viewers to check out your book
00:25:43.11\00:25:47.11
and to be accountable...
thank you Pastor Bernie...
00:25:47.14\00:25:51.10
You're welcome...
thank you so much Yvonne...
00:25:51.14\00:25:53.61
There's no problem too big
or too small for our great God,
00:25:53.65\00:25:58.26
if lust and pornography
are your struggles...
00:25:58.29\00:26:01.54
take it to
Jesus... make a choice
00:26:01.58\00:26:03.96
to put no wicked
thing before your eyes...
00:26:04.00\00:26:06.53
and find a trusted friend
to whom you can be accountable
00:26:06.57\00:26:09.86
you can be delivered...
you heard Pastor Bernie
00:26:09.89\00:26:13.77
talk about the steps
in his deliverance...
00:26:13.81\00:26:16.66
first he prayed... and
he asked God to deliver him
00:26:16.69\00:26:20.43
from the grips of this addiction
00:26:20.46\00:26:22.45
then he called a trusted friend
00:26:22.48\00:26:24.40
and that friend came over
and prayed with him again...
00:26:24.43\00:26:27.39
so now the cloud of
secrecy was removed...
00:26:27.42\00:26:29.88
and then... after he prayed
00:26:29.91\00:26:32.71
and he talked to that friend...
then he made himself accountable
00:26:32.74\00:26:36.77
on a regular basis...
that's an important point
00:26:36.80\00:26:40.83
because somebody has to
know what you're doing...
00:26:40.88\00:26:43.13
so that... that
kind of keeps you
00:26:43.16\00:26:45.25
from getting
tempted and sucked back
00:26:45.28\00:26:47.39
into that pattern
of behavior again...
00:26:47.42\00:26:49.49
God has deliverance for you,
00:26:49.53\00:26:52.25
God has a
special destiny for you,
00:26:52.28\00:26:55.25
and He wants you
to be secure in Him...
00:26:55.28\00:26:58.86
Well, that's the end of
our Program for today...
00:26:58.90\00:27:02.35
Tune in next time...
00:27:02.38\00:27:03.69
it just wouldn't be
the same without you...
00:27:03.73\00:27:05.99