Have you ever wondered
what Muslims believe...
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or how are Muslims and
Christians different...
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well stay tuned...
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My name is Yvonne
Lewis and you're watching
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Urban Report...
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Welcome to Urban
Report... today my first guest
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is Dr. Keith Burton,
Coordinator of the Center for
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Adventist-Muslim relations
at Oakwood University...
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or CAMR-OU for
short... welcome to Urban Report
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Dr. Burton...
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It's good to be here...
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Thank you...
thank you for coming...
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we really
appreciate your being here...
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First of all...
tell us about CAMR-OU...
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what actually do you
do there? what is it?
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What is that Center for
Adventist-Muslim relations?
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Well, CAMR-OU exists to
foster positive relationships
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between Muslims and
Christians and we're here really
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to build bridges...
we know that Islam is
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one of the
world's major religions...
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with, over 1.5 billion members
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in the different factions,
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and we're basically here to
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just try to find ways in
which we can work together
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and to share the love of Christ
in ways in which I believe
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will please God... Amen...
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because I was going to
say... why is it important...
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why do you think it's important
for us to work together?
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Well, we live in an age where...
particularly in the West
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many Muslims
have been stigmatized
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and in fact... many
people have been looking
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at Islam in negative ways
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and many of those who
have negative things to say
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about Islam...
profess to be Christian...
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and as Adventist Christians,
we basically, just want to show
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our brothers and sisters
that even though we may not
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understand "Truth" the
same way, that we do know that
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we have some things in common
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and that is... that
the beliefs are in the
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Creator God...
and also belief that
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there is a Savior
who makes a difference
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so, you know, and even though
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we may have different
ways of looking at Jesus...
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for instance... He's
definitely an important figure
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in both Faiths... and so,
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we're trying to find a way...
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to put flesh on what we teach
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so that our Muslim
brothers and sisters...
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can know the Christ
that we say we believe in...
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Oh, you know, this is
interesting to me because
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you often see...
Muslims in the street
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and, of course, there are
different types of Muslims
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and we can talk
about that... but...
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in Nation of Islam,
Sufi and all that...
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but we never really... at
least... I've never really
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investigated Islam that deeply,
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to know... what
do they believe in...
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first of all... and
then how does that compare
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with what Christians believe in.
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So, what do Muslims
believe in, first of all?
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Well, of course...
asking that question is almost
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like asking what
Christians believe in...
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because there are many, many,
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different
factions of Christianity
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but, of course, most
Muslims will basically agree
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to what we call
the five pillars...
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and that first of
all is a confession that
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there is one God...
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the second belief is
that a faithful person
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needs to pray 5 times a
day at assigned times...
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that there needs to be
a time set aside each year
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for fasting... that
persons need to give alms
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or at least give charity
to others in the Community...
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and finally... it's believed
that every faithful Muslim
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who has the means...
should take a pilgrimage
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at least once in
his or her lifetime...
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to Mecca...
there is also a belief
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by some folks...
the 6th pillar...
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not all agree on
this... in the concept of Jihad
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now, of course, when we
used to think about Jihad
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at least in our
Western, modern sensibilities...
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we think about those who
strap on bombs on themselves
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you know, and blow people up...
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Yes... yes... but,
of course, in the Koran
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we read about
this concept of Jihad
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and the Jihad al-Akbar
which is the greater Jihad
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is actually the
struggle against self...
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you know... the
struggle against the tendencies
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the struggle
against sin... and Oh...
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when a faithful
Muslim talks about Jihad...
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this is what... he
or she has in mind...
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not violence...
even though there is
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what they call... Jihad al Harb
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which is, you know, a
violent sort of struggle
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sort of thing...
but that's called
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the lesser Jihad...
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but the greater Jihad is
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supposed to be the
struggle against self...
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the desire
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to see a person
fully submitted to God
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and doing righteous
works... and so... again...
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when we talk about what
our Center is all about,
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we're about
building these bridges
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and reminding our
Muslim brothers and sisters
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that even at the core
of their own religion,
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is this
understanding that God wants
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us to submit to
Him... in all ways...
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Yes... now this is a question
that I've really wondered about,
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Allah and Jehovah... when
the Muslims pray to Allah,
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are they praying to the same...
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is their concept of Allah...
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the same as ours... of Jehovah?
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You know... there
are many... again...
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many views within Christianity
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as to... whether or
not it is the same God
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you know... but of
course... the word "Allah"
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basically means...
God... in Arabic...
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if you were an
Arabic-Christian for instance
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then you are praying to
God, you're praying to Allah...
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and, of course, when we
look at the origins of Islam...
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we do know that
Islam came to birth
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in a Christian
context... and so, when Muhammad
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wrote about Allah...
even though we may not agree
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with everything that he
wrote, we do know that he was
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writing about the
same God that he believed
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Christians and Jews
worshipped, and so, I would say,
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unequivocally... when we look at
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the concept of Allah
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that Muslims believe that
they are praying to the same God
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as Christians and
Jews... but, of course,
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just as the same as
when we look at the variety
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of ways in which
God is understood
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in Christianity...
we see that there may be
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some ways that even I,
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as an Adventist Christian,
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may look at the
Muslim's understanding of God
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and say, "Well, I
don't understand it fully
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that way... but just
because I understand Him
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differently... does not make Him
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a different
God... for instance...
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you could even look
amongst Christians...
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there are some
Christians who believe
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that God wants to burn people
forever and ever and ever...
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and ever... I don't
believe that... you know
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but I'm not going to
say, to my Baptist Brother
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or my Catholic Brother,
that the God that you pray to
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is not the same
God that I pray to...
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because you... sort of... mis...
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or I don't want to use
the word "misinterpret"
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but you don't understand Him
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in the same way
that I understand Him...
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you know... and so...
again... when we look at
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the conversation that Jesus has
with the Woman at the well...
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in John Chapter 4...
and she wanted to get into
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a debate... over... you know...
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who Got is... sort of thing and
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God's response to her is
"God is free... and He seeks
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those who worship Him
in Spirit and in Truth... "
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Hmmm... hmmm... and so I think
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from a Biblical
perspective, when we look at
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who God is... we
look at a God who is
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broad enough to be known...
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even by different names
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for instance in the Bible...
we see the father-in-law
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of Moses,
Jethro, he's called the
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Priest of El Elyon
of the Most High God...
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and there are many, many
names different names for God
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in Scripture but
just because we may see
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El Shaddai and El Elyon
and El Rahi... and El Sabaoth,
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it doesn't necessarily mean
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that these are different
Gods... and so, I would say,
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in a nutshell... I do
believe that a faithful Muslim
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who is praying to
God with the knowledge
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that he or she knows...
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will be heard by the same God
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who I pray to... even
though, their understanding
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of truth may be
different than mine...
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Which doesn't mean that
you're telling Christians
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to now refer to God
as Allah... correct...
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Oh no... not at
all... not at all...
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I just want to make that clear
because we'll start getting
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e- mails and things
from viewers saying,
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"They're saying
to pray to Allah... "
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and that's not
what you're saying,
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so let's just make sure
that that is truly understood
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that you are not
saying, "Start praying to Allah"
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that is not what you're
saying, correct, Dr. Burton?
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Not at all... not at
all... but, of course,
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if you are an Arabic
person, you've always been
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praying to Allah, you know,
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but, of course, when we
look at even the names for God,
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Hmmm... hmmm... our
English word "God" is from
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the German "Gott"
and you go deeper into
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Anglo-Saxon
religion, we see "Gott"
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was the name for
"Water God" Hmmm...
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so, that is not
the same name as Yahweh
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and when we look
even at Scripture
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when we read about the
Baals that the Canaanites bowed
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down to... but the word "Baal"
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"al" again as I say
the "L" root same "L" root
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and there's even a text
that refers to God as Baal...
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you know... and so...
again... we are using the words
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we are confined
as humans to language
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to describe a God who
is really indescribable...
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Hmmm... and if
we think about the
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conversation that
God has with Moses
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in Exodus Chapter 3...
and He sends Moses to liberate
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the people... and
Moses asked God for His name
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and God simply responded
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as a matter-of-fact
He used some Hebrew here
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He used the Hebrew
term "ehyeh aser ehyeh"
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which basically
means... I am what I am...
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I have been what I have been,
I shall be what I shall be...
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in other words
He's basically saying...
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I am really beyond comprehension
and all human attempts
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to understand me are
just human attempts...
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Hmmm... and so...
when we look at how
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God deals with humanity,
God reaches us where we are...
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and I believe that
revelation He pulls us...
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but I think
it's a mistake though
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to get into a conversation
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that says... that
if we refer to God
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with an English
name... then He hears us...
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but if we use some Arabic
name, then He doesn't hear us...
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Hmmm... because
then we're basically
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saying that Arab-speakers
will have to learn English
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before they can approach God...
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Okay... okay... thank you...
00:11:08.53\00:11:10.39
what is the concept of the
Muslim... regarding Jesus Christ
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where do they put
Him in their theology?
00:11:15.34\00:11:18.47
Now, of course,
the whole discussion
00:11:18.50\00:11:21.56
of Jesus is central
to Muslim theology...
00:11:21.60\00:11:25.25
particularly as it relates to
00:11:25.28\00:11:27.61
Adventists- or
Christian-Muslim relations...
00:11:27.64\00:11:30.48
because we
acknowledge from the outset
00:11:30.52\00:11:33.39
that the Muslim
understanding of Jesus
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particularly when it
comes to His divinity...
00:11:36.26\00:11:38.55
it's not the same as
the Christian understanding
00:11:38.58\00:11:40.84
of Jesus...
however... How so... how so?
00:11:40.87\00:11:44.08
Well, the whole
idea that Jesus is God
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that Jesus is
even the Son of God...
00:11:47.09\00:11:50.37
is apparent to most Muslims,
00:11:50.41\00:11:53.07
and one of the reasons being
00:11:53.10\00:11:55.70
is that the concept of
Trinity, that Muhammad appeared
00:11:55.73\00:12:00.85
to be wrestling
with... is one that saw
00:12:00.89\00:12:03.28
God the Father, Mary and
Jesus, and so it was almost like
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God has sexual
relations with a human being
00:12:08.79\00:12:12.87
in order to give
birth to Jesus...
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and in building
relationships with Muslims...
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this is one of
the first discussions
00:12:17.30\00:12:21.12
that we usually have
in dispelling this myth...
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that it was basically
God, Mary and Jesus...
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but, however, having said that,
when we look at the Koran...
00:12:29.30\00:12:33.35
we see that Jesus is portrayed
in a very positive way...
00:12:33.39\00:12:37.36
for instance...
the Koran speaks about
00:12:37.39\00:12:39.41
Jesus' virgin birth...
00:12:39.44\00:12:41.13
He is the only person that
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doesn't have earthly parents
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according to the Koran...
the Koran also speaks about
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Jesus conducting miracles
00:12:49.35\00:12:51.26
from the cradle to
the grave, you know...
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healing the sick
and raising the dead...
00:12:53.37\00:12:55.69
the Koran speaks
about Jesus as the only One
00:12:55.72\00:12:58.01
who has not sinned... Hmmm...
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it speaks about
Jesus, right now,
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as sitting at
the right hand of God
00:13:01.57\00:13:02.87
and it speaks
about the Second Coming
00:13:02.90\00:13:04.32
all of these are
important teachings in the Koran
00:13:04.36\00:13:07.45
in fact, when we look at
the way in which the Koran
00:13:07.48\00:13:10.54
describes Jesus...
it's talks about Him as
00:13:10.58\00:13:13.60
The Word of God
the KALIMET ALLAH
00:13:13.64\00:13:17.18
He is also the
Spirit of God the RUH ALLAH
00:13:17.21\00:13:21.06
He is also the
Light of God the Nur Allah
00:13:21.09\00:13:24.42
and so, there are a
number of statements
00:13:24.46\00:13:27.71
that are made in the Koran
that are made about no other
00:13:27.74\00:13:30.39
person in the Koran...
00:13:30.43\00:13:31.75
that leaves me to
conclude that at least
00:13:31.78\00:13:35.05
in the mind of
Muhammad, there was no one
00:13:35.08\00:13:38.70
greater than Jesus,
who has walked the face
00:13:38.74\00:13:42.32
of this earth... and so
even though they may not
00:13:42.36\00:13:44.72
go as far as Christians
in claiming and acknowledging
00:13:44.75\00:13:48.17
the divinity of
Christ, He is definitely
00:13:48.20\00:13:51.15
an esteemed
person and there is none
00:13:51.19\00:13:54.07
who can compare with Him
even from a Koranic perspective.
00:13:54.10\00:13:57.27
So, that's really interesting,
00:13:57.30\00:13:59.76
so, that's one of the
things that... in reaching
00:13:59.79\00:14:03.35
our Muslim brothers and sisters
00:14:03.38\00:14:05.23
we can use a bit of
their concept of Christ
00:14:05.26\00:14:09.80
because He is in the Koran,
and then expand on that...
00:14:09.83\00:14:13.79
as we witness to
them about Jesus Christ...
00:14:13.82\00:14:17.83
which is the most
important thing...
00:14:17.86\00:14:19.38
I mean... that's
what it's all about...
00:14:19.42\00:14:21.47
Right... most
definitely and again...
00:14:21.50\00:14:23.55
it's something
that we have in common
00:14:23.59\00:14:26.72
that Jesus of the
Bible and of course
00:14:26.75\00:14:29.81
the Koran affirms the
Bible, it speaks about the
00:14:29.85\00:14:34.45
the Tawrat and the
Injil and the Zabur...
00:14:34.49\00:14:36.93
the Tawrat the Old
Testament, the Zabur the Psalms
00:14:36.96\00:14:41.18
and the Injil the New Testament
00:14:41.21\00:14:43.70
it speaks about this
and even as we discuss
00:14:43.74\00:14:47.68
with our Muslim
brothers and sisters
00:14:47.72\00:14:50.06
it's important to affirm
that which has been shared
00:14:50.09\00:14:54.69
in the Koran... but
also inviting them to
00:14:54.73\00:14:59.45
look at other
revelation because Muhammad
00:14:59.49\00:15:04.14
just does refers to the
Bible as Divine Revelation
00:15:04.17\00:15:07.38
and so... looking
at other revelation
00:15:07.41\00:15:09.82
other teachings about
00:15:09.86\00:15:11.77
who they refer to as
00:15:11.80\00:15:13.34
Isa al-Masih... and
by-the-way Isa that's Jesus...
00:15:13.38\00:15:16.53
al-Masih the Messiah...
00:15:16.57\00:15:18.00
the Koran calls
Jesus the Messiah...
00:15:18.04\00:15:20.24
Really? I never knew
00:15:20.28\00:15:23.37
that Jesus was held in
high esteem in the Koran
00:15:23.40\00:15:28.30
but He's still looked at as
a prophet and not God, correct?
00:15:28.33\00:15:32.92
Right... right... So
what has to be done then
00:15:32.95\00:15:37.46
if I'm
witnessing... and we're going to
00:15:37.49\00:15:40.21
wind this up a
bit... if I'm witnessing
00:15:40.25\00:15:42.90
to a Muslim brother or
sister, how would I begin that
00:15:42.93\00:15:47.45
that whole process...
what would be the first step
00:15:47.49\00:15:51.97
in witnessing as a
Christian and as an
00:15:52.00\00:15:54.91
Adventist Christian to a Muslim?
00:15:54.95\00:15:56.80
Well, I would suggest that
one stays away from debate...
00:15:56.83\00:16:01.60
you know...
because what I found is...
00:16:01.64\00:16:03.80
that in trying to debate
one's understanding of truth
00:16:03.83\00:16:07.92
against another
understanding of truth...
00:16:07.95\00:16:09.61
we usually find
that people dig deeper
00:16:09.65\00:16:11.78
into what they believe
00:16:11.81\00:16:13.09
and so, I believe
that what has been revealed
00:16:13.12\00:16:17.30
in the Koran is enough
to basically help a person
00:16:17.34\00:16:21.48
to get a taste to know more...
00:16:21.52\00:16:23.51
and so the best
approach is really
00:16:23.55\00:16:26.12
digging deep into
what the Koran has to say
00:16:26.16\00:16:29.56
about Jesus and say,
00:16:29.59\00:16:30.63
"Okay, do you
want to know more?"
00:16:30.67\00:16:32.46
there's the gospel over
here that has a fuller picture
00:16:32.49\00:16:37.12
and allowing our
Muslim brothers and sisters
00:16:37.15\00:16:40.81
to basically... on
their own... investigate what
00:16:40.85\00:16:44.48
the Scriptures have to say...
00:16:44.51\00:16:45.84
I had a real
experience some years ago
00:16:45.88\00:16:49.12
I was in Greece and I met
some people from Saudi Arabia...
00:16:49.15\00:16:54.11
and we started
talking one evening
00:16:54.15\00:16:56.74
they found that I was
a Christian Minister...
00:16:56.78\00:16:59.34
and every day at
breakfast we started talking
00:16:59.38\00:17:02.12
about the books...
the Koran and the Bible
00:17:02.15\00:17:05.05
and I was sharing with
them some stories about
00:17:05.08\00:17:07.83
people they held
dear, about Adam and Noah...
00:17:07.86\00:17:10.01
and they said, "Wow,
we didn't know that... "
00:17:10.05\00:17:12.13
and so... anyway I had an
English copy of the Bible...
00:17:12.16\00:17:15.08
I was supposed to be
teaching Greek in Greece,
00:17:15.12\00:17:16.73
but I had an
English Bible with me...
00:17:16.77\00:17:19.06
and so I gave
them the English Bible
00:17:19.09\00:17:21.31
and every evening we
were going to read...
00:17:21.34\00:17:24.02
and we had such
rich conversations
00:17:24.06\00:17:25.91
in the morning... and
when they came down...
00:17:25.95\00:17:27.76
they said, "We
didn't know about David... "
00:17:27.79\00:17:29.11
"We didn't know
this about Solomon... "
00:17:29.14\00:17:30.38
and we had such rich
conversations... okay and so...
00:17:30.42\00:17:34.48
I wasn't trying to pressure them
00:17:34.51\00:17:36.84
to change their way of thinking,
but... as the Bible says,
00:17:36.88\00:17:39.72
"By beholding...
we become changed... "
00:17:39.75\00:17:41.73
Yes... Sometimes, I think...
00:17:41.76\00:17:44.01
we're trying to do... what
only the Spirit of God can do...
00:17:44.05\00:17:46.99
and basically... just
talking about those things...
00:17:47.03\00:17:50.27
we have in
common... and if indeed
00:17:50.30\00:17:52.67
a person has an even
mind, to know and love God,
00:17:52.70\00:17:56.75
I believe that the
Spirit does the rest...
00:17:56.79\00:17:59.02
Thank you...
thank you... you know...
00:17:59.05\00:18:01.10
is there a place in the
Koran about the Holy Spirit?
00:18:01.14\00:18:05.83
What role does the Holy Spirit
play in the Koran... if any?
00:18:05.87\00:18:10.81
Well now...
actually the Spirit of God
00:18:10.85\00:18:13.98
does work to convict hearts...
and has a very similar role
00:18:14.02\00:18:19.23
actually to what we
find in Scripture...
00:18:19.27\00:18:21.61
but again... from a
personification perspective
00:18:21.65\00:18:26.14
and this is
another bridge over here
00:18:26.18\00:18:28.06
we see that Jesus is called
the Ruh-Allah, the Spirit of God
00:18:28.10\00:18:33.10
and so the word that Jesus does,
He does... by the Spirit of God,
00:18:33.13\00:18:37.63
in fact... the Koran
speaks about Jesus as being
00:18:37.67\00:18:41.44
the only one who God has
endowed with the Holy Spirit...
00:18:41.47\00:18:46.62
and so He really
plays a similar role
00:18:46.65\00:18:50.35
to what we see in Scripture...
00:18:50.38\00:18:51.88
Okay, you know,
00:18:51.92\00:18:54.13
I had not
00:18:54.17\00:18:55.81
been aware of... and
this is so enlightening...
00:18:55.84\00:18:59.44
and I'm sure for
the viewers as well...
00:18:59.48\00:19:01.40
because... we often see...
our Muslim brothers and sisters
00:19:01.44\00:19:06.67
the sisters in the
burkas and all that
00:19:06.71\00:19:08.80
and just... you
know... we have no clue
00:19:08.83\00:19:10.85
about what they believe
in... and if you don't know...
00:19:10.89\00:19:13.77
what someone else
believes in, you cannot...
00:19:13.81\00:19:17.25
you can't share
what you believe in...
00:19:17.29\00:19:21.23
without to me having
some kind of foundation...
00:19:21.27\00:19:24.09
in knowing what they believe in,
so I think it's really important
00:19:24.13\00:19:29.36
to not get
involved in controversy...
00:19:29.39\00:19:33.48
but to really
share... the love of Jesus...
00:19:33.52\00:19:37.29
and you have
three core principles...
00:19:37.32\00:19:39.83
that CAMR-OU has...
would you share those with us
00:19:39.86\00:19:43.64
and tell us a
little bit about that...
00:19:43.67\00:19:45.95
Yes, our Three-Core
Principles, Dr. Lewis,
00:19:45.98\00:19:48.22
are Loving,
00:19:48.25\00:19:50.28
Learning,
00:19:50.31\00:19:51.89
Sharing...
00:19:51.92\00:19:53.43
let me start
with Learning first...
00:19:53.46\00:19:55.47
By learning... I
mean... learning about Islam
00:19:55.51\00:19:59.78
their beliefs, their
practices, their culture...
00:19:59.82\00:20:03.62
because it's going to be
very difficult to interact
00:20:03.66\00:20:07.43
if we don't know who
00:20:07.46\00:20:10.75
the people are with
whom we want to interact...
00:20:10.79\00:20:13.68
and so Learning is
having a willingness
00:20:13.72\00:20:16.27
to open our ears and to
listen to what they believe
00:20:16.31\00:20:21.19
now, when it comes to
Sharing, sorry to Loving...
00:20:21.23\00:20:25.57
that's a principle in
which we want to be intentional
00:20:25.61\00:20:29.96
about forming relations...
and so, for instance,
00:20:29.99\00:20:32.64
we have a Program that
we'll be starting this week
00:20:32.67\00:20:35.04
where we'll be
training ministers
00:20:35.08\00:20:36.50
all across the
North American Division
00:20:36.53\00:20:39.02
and one of the
components of that Program...
00:20:39.05\00:20:41.35
in addition to the
ministers receiving instruction
00:20:41.38\00:20:44.69
from various
people... from our universities
00:20:44.72\00:20:47.08
across North America,
and the General Conference...
00:20:47.11\00:20:49.18
they are also going
to have to have Programs
00:20:49.22\00:20:52.76
in their Church
where they invite Muslims
00:20:52.80\00:20:56.20
in their
Communities... to participate...
00:20:56.23\00:20:59.57
not necessarily as spectators...
but also as Presenters...
00:20:59.60\00:21:03.59
for instance... one of the
ideas that we're given is...
00:21:03.62\00:21:07.58
a Cooking
Class... and we know that
00:21:07.61\00:21:10.46
Adventists and Muslims have
a number of things in common
00:21:10.50\00:21:13.31
when it comes to diet... Ah...
00:21:13.35\00:21:15.14
and so could there be some
Muslims women in the Community
00:21:15.18\00:21:18.62
who could have some
recipes that they can share...
00:21:18.66\00:21:21.18
you know... and then when
we think at the whole idea
00:21:21.22\00:21:24.93
of "Dress Reform" there
are a whole lot of things
00:21:24.96\00:21:28.16
that we can learn... and share
00:21:28.20\00:21:29.97
when it comes to that aspect
00:21:30.01\00:21:31.71
okay, so, when it comes
to sharing... excuse me...
00:21:31.75\00:21:36.50
I'm getting sort of
tongue twisted here...
00:21:36.53\00:21:38.10
so, when it comes to "Loving"
this is a part of what we do...
00:21:38.13\00:21:41.85
and then also... next year...
I'm trying to take a group
00:21:41.89\00:21:45.62
from Oakland University...
to a Muslim area in Africa
00:21:45.66\00:21:49.36
where we can do
some humanitarian work...
00:21:49.40\00:21:51.50
and the idea was
maybe dig a well...
00:21:51.53\00:21:53.91
or build an
orphanage or something
00:21:53.95\00:21:56.26
and we were also going
to do some preaching...
00:21:56.29\00:21:59.35
and so... some of
the preaching will be
00:21:59.38\00:22:02.55
using texts from the
Koran that corresponds with
00:22:02.58\00:22:06.45
texts from Scripture...
Is that a dangerous thing
00:22:06.49\00:22:10.32
to go over to other
countries and preach...
00:22:10.36\00:22:13.90
and kind of
proselytize is that not putting
00:22:13.93\00:22:17.41
your lives in danger or no...?
Well, no... I mean... again...
00:22:17.44\00:22:21.99
it's how one
shares... it's how one shares...
00:22:22.03\00:22:25.12
and I believe that the
gospel is about Jesus Christ
00:22:25.16\00:22:30.31
and when one encounters
Jesus, one is exposed to
00:22:30.34\00:22:35.46
a new and broad way of life...
00:22:35.50\00:22:38.16
and so, there are some places,
00:22:38.20\00:22:40.79
that, if you went and
even opened up a Bible...
00:22:40.83\00:22:44.40
you could get
killed... yes... Yes... yes...
00:22:44.44\00:22:47.95
but there are many Nations
where there is openness...
00:22:47.98\00:22:51.73
there's a lot of openness...
to share and to learn...
00:22:51.76\00:22:56.42
and again... I believe
that the best drawing card
00:22:56.46\00:23:01.05
to the Kingdom...
is a life that's filled
00:23:01.08\00:23:04.34
with the love of God...
00:23:04.37\00:23:05.82
and when your life is
filled with the love of God,
00:23:05.86\00:23:08.91
I think, it's almost impossible
for one who loves God...
00:23:08.94\00:23:13.03
to turn their back on
it... you know, Jesus said,
00:23:13.06\00:23:16.32
"If I be lifted up...
I'll draw all people unto me"
00:23:16.35\00:23:19.57
Yes... and I
believe that even as
00:23:19.60\00:23:21.45
we lift Christ up... then
people will understand that
00:23:21.48\00:23:25.42
there is indeed a better way...
00:23:25.46\00:23:27.13
and that way is
found in the God of Love...
00:23:27.16\00:23:31.51
who has revealed Himself...
through His Son... Jesus Christ.
00:23:31.54\00:23:34.50
That is wonderful... so,
I know that in an earlier
00:23:34.53\00:23:39.56
conversation...
that you and I had...
00:23:39.59\00:23:41.47
you had said that in many
of these African countries...
00:23:41.51\00:23:44.78
that there are...
that there are pockets
00:23:44.82\00:23:50.15
of Christianity... and Islam...
00:23:50.18\00:23:52.90
our Schools have...
00:23:52.93\00:23:54.23
Islamic students in
Adventist Schools...
00:23:54.26\00:23:58.31
Oh yes... oh yes...
and that was an interesting
00:23:58.34\00:24:01.88
point to me too...
because I hadn't...
00:24:01.92\00:24:04.27
my conception was that...
00:24:04.30\00:24:07.05
and I'm sure many of
the viewers think too...
00:24:07.08\00:24:11.01
that a lot of these
Muslims are not open to
00:24:11.04\00:24:14.90
letting their children
know about Christianity...
00:24:14.94\00:24:18.24
but... what you said... is
kind of contradictory to that
00:24:18.28\00:24:22.39
which is interesting...
00:24:22.42\00:24:23.77
Yes, you know that in
fact I was in Tanzania...
00:24:23.80\00:24:26.97
some years ago...
and I preached at the
00:24:27.00\00:24:30.12
University of Arusha...
did some lectures over there...
00:24:30.16\00:24:32.19
and it's an interesting
00:24:32.23\00:24:34.96
thing to see that
even in the Choirs,
00:24:35.00\00:24:37.01
you know, the Muslim
students in the Choirs...
00:24:37.04\00:24:40.40
were singing...
some of the same songs
00:24:40.44\00:24:42.91
that Choirs sing over here...
00:24:42.94\00:24:44.18
and our School in Nigeria...
a large percentage of the
00:24:44.22\00:24:48.82
student body is
Muslim... and of course, again,
00:24:48.85\00:24:53.01
we're talking about
building relationships
00:24:53.04\00:24:55.83
between people...
because oft times when we
00:24:55.87\00:24:58.58
stress the differences...
"I'm Muslim... you're Christian"
00:24:58.62\00:25:03.44
or "You're Christian...
I'm Muslim" et cetera...
00:25:03.47\00:25:04.90
when you stress
those differences...
00:25:04.94\00:25:09.36
then... all of a
sudden... for most people...
00:25:09.40\00:25:12.08
the barrier goes
up... but then...
00:25:12.11\00:25:14.12
there is a common denominator...
00:25:14.16\00:25:16.10
for people who may
want to be educated...
00:25:16.14\00:25:18.13
okay... the School
offers Education...
00:25:18.17\00:25:20.09
Hmmm... hmmm... and
as we offer the education
00:25:20.13\00:25:22.66
then people... who
may be of different faiths
00:25:22.69\00:25:25.19
have an opportunity
00:25:25.23\00:25:26.76
to come together...
and in that setting...
00:25:26.80\00:25:30.76
exchange ideas and
just see how God works...
00:25:30.79\00:25:34.68
and God has been working...
in very, very powerful ways...
00:25:34.72\00:25:37.65
in those Centers,
you know, and so...
00:25:37.68\00:25:40.21
the whole idea is to
basically... again...
00:25:40.24\00:25:43.63
show the love of Christ
00:25:43.66\00:25:46.26
and as that
happens... as that happens...
00:25:46.30\00:25:49.96
then the unity that
God wants for all people
00:25:49.99\00:25:53.32
is put on the front
burners as it were...
00:25:53.35\00:25:56.64
and then people
don't necessarily...
00:25:56.68\00:25:58.68
feel that coming to
a School which may have
00:25:58.71\00:26:02.94
a different
spiritual ethos than you have
00:26:02.98\00:26:06.21
is something that's
dangerous and I think
00:26:06.25\00:26:09.41
that's one of the first
things that we have to learn
00:26:09.45\00:26:11.64
when thinking about
even how we share Christ...
00:26:11.67\00:26:14.95
you know...
having that safe place...
00:26:14.99\00:26:17.81
that people can come...
people can come, you know,
00:26:17.85\00:26:21.51
and oft times... I
feel that people don't come
00:26:21.54\00:26:25.17
to our institutions...
00:26:25.21\00:26:26.82
don't come to our
places of worship...
00:26:26.85\00:26:29.25
because we have sort
of set these rules so high
00:26:29.28\00:26:32.50
and set the
parameters so severe...
00:26:32.53\00:26:35.24
that they feel that
they're not welcome...
00:26:35.27\00:26:38.26
Yes... yes... but if
we have our hands open
00:26:38.30\00:26:41.22
like Christ has His hands open,
then... people will come...
00:26:41.26\00:26:44.90
and it's not saying that
everyone is going to stay...
00:26:44.93\00:26:47.41
but we do know
that many who come...
00:26:47.44\00:26:50.22
do like what they
see... and decide that
00:26:50.25\00:26:52.68
this is the way in
which their spiritual life
00:26:52.72\00:26:55.11
is going to go
from this point...
00:26:55.15\00:26:56.53
Dr. Burton... you have been
00:26:56.56\00:26:58.24
such a blessing
today... thank you so much
00:26:58.27\00:27:00.93
for sharing this
information with us...
00:27:00.96\00:27:03.59
you know... we
have to remember...
00:27:03.62\00:27:05.76
that we must spread
the gospel of the kingdom
00:27:05.80\00:27:09.42
to all the world... and
then... the end will come...
00:27:09.45\00:27:13.59
there's no group that
should remain untouched
00:27:13.62\00:27:16.81
by the Word... the
Lord would have us go
00:27:16.85\00:27:19.53
into all the world...
sharing His love with everyone,
00:27:19.56\00:27:23.18
our Muslim brothers and sisters
need to see the love of Jesus
00:27:23.22\00:27:26.97
through us... we know that...
00:27:27.00\00:27:29.72
if we share
Jesus... Jesus said...
00:27:29.76\00:27:32.74
"If I be lifted up... I
will draw all men to me... "
00:27:32.78\00:27:35.63
and so... that's
what we must do...
00:27:35.66\00:27:37.89
we must go... in a
non-controversial way...
00:27:37.92\00:27:41.36
showing love and
caring and concern...
00:27:41.40\00:27:44.33
and really lifting
up the name of Jesus...
00:27:44.37\00:27:47.55
Thanks for being
with us on Urban Report...
00:27:47.58\00:27:50.63
we'll see you next
time... and remember...
00:27:50.66\00:27:54.33
it just wouldn't be
the same... without you...
00:27:54.37\00:27:58.01