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Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000511A
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00:10 [Music] 00:20 >>TY: Man, this has been such a great conversation around 00:25 this table. 00:26 For those who are sitting in with us, we just wanna kinda 00:28 set the table one more time, set the table, 'cause this is 00:32 Table Talk, one more time, and first of all, just say what 00:37 we're doing here. 00:38 We're engaged in a way of interacting that comes to us 00:44 from the Protestant reformation. 00:46 I mean, people were doing it before the Protestant 00:49 reformation, people have been doing it after, but Martin 00:52 Luther actually came up with the idea of hey, let's do a 00:55 Table Talk. 00:56 Once he launched the Protestant reformation, he 01:00 just sat around a table with common people, average people, 01:04 because you have to remember, at that time, the idea was 01:07 that spiritual knowledge and theology and doctrine in the 01:11 bible was exclusive to the clergy, to the priests, to 01:16 those who had some kind of elite spiritual position. 01:20 And Luther said, no, the common person can understand 01:25 the word of God. 01:26 >>DAVID: Common man is beginning to think. 01:29 >>TY: The common man is beginning to think, and you're 01:31 not going to find in Luther the idea that hey, you should 01:37 believe what is being said by me because I'm in a position 01:42 of superiority over you, therefore, you ought to 01:45 believe it. 01:47 What you're gonna find in Luther is, study the bible for 01:50 yourself, and you can ask questions and God will give 01:54 answers. 01:56 And so, let's sit around the table and let's have a 01:58 discussion and you can bring up anything you want. 02:01 This is a heritage that has come down to us from Martin 02:05 Luther based on the idea of the priesthood of all 02:08 believers. 02:09 So, what a joy it is to have the privilege of thinking and 02:13 conversing, and we know because we've heard over the 02:16 years, this is season 5 of Table Talk, we know because 02:19 people have told us, hey, we saw you doing that, so me and 02:23 my girlfriends get together, one lady told me, in our 02:26 kitchen and we do our own version of Table Talk. 02:29 And there are other people around the world who have 02:31 said, we're just gonna do that. 02:32 We're gonna get together and we're gonna talk about 02:35 whatever we wanna talk about regarding the word of God. 02:38 Theology, God, it's just amazing. 02:41 It's a beautiful thing. 02:42 So, in a sense, we've started a little movement that 02:45 hopefully will grow. 02:46 We're doing this because we wanna share concepts that we 02:49 believe are vital and important, but we're also 02:51 doing this to model, hey, everybody out there, get 02:56 together with intentionality. 02:58 Get together, open the bible, and just start talking about 03:04 whatever you wanna talk about. 03:05 So, what a privilege. 03:06 >>JAMES: How apropos that we're doing season 5 on 03:09 reformation 500. 03:10 >>TY: That's right. 03:11 >>DAVID: Oh, that's good, excellent. 03:13 Even though, we thought, and you wanted it to be Daniel. 03:17 Daniel will be next year. 03:18 >>TY: Well, we all wanted it to be Daniel. 03:20 >>DAVID: That's what I'm saying, James is the Daniel 03:23 scholar though. 03:24 James, he knows about Daniel than us put together. 03:26 >>TY: Daniel could do an entire season of Table Talk, 03:29 all 13, I mean James could, not Daniel. 03:31 James could do an entire season of Table Talk himself, 03:35 all 13 episodes on just Daniel 11. 03:38 [Laughter] 03:41 [Laughter] 03:43 >>JEFFERY: Sitting at the table alone. 03:45 >>TY: He could just jump from chair to chair and interact 03:46 with himself on that subject. 03:48 >>JAMES: No, no, no, that would be boring. 03:49 >>TY: So, we decided, hey, this is the 500th year of the 03:52 Protestant reformation, the anniversary, so let's just 03:54 talk about that, and man, it's been rich, and right now, 03:58 we're at that part of our discussion on the Protestant 04:02 reformation where we're going through the 5 solas, and we've 04:07 so far covered sola scriptura, and then we went into sola 04:11 gracia, then we went into sola fida, and then sola Christo, 04:16 Christ alone, and now, we're at sola deo gloria, and 04:21 this... 04:22 >>JEFFERY: I love hearing you say that. 04:24 >>TY: Well, you've got, you roll the r. 04:26 >>JEFFERY: I like the way you say it. 04:28 Say it again. 04:29 >>TY: Okay, sola deo gloria. 04:30 Did I roll them a little bit? 04:32 Okay. 04:33 So, you say it, 'cause I wanna hear you say it with that 04:37 Dominican tone. 04:38 >>JEFFERY: I don't wanna interrupt your flow, keep 04:39 going. 04:40 >>TY: Come on Jeffrey, say it. 04:42 >>JEFFERY: [In an American accent] Sola deo gloria. 04:44 >>TY: No. 04:44 [Laughter] 04:46 You just said it like me. 04:47 Okay, so here's the thing, this is essentially that all 04:52 that we've talked about so far, grace and faith and 04:57 Christ and scripture, and the entire enterprise of the 05:01 gospel is to the glory of God alone. 05:04 To the glory of God alone. 05:06 And that's what we're gonna plow into right now. 05:09 We're gonna... 05:10 >>DAVID: I love that the entire enterprise of the 05:12 gospel. 05:13 >>TY: Not the Starship Enterprise, but the gospel 05:15 enterprise. 05:16 That's right. 05:17 So, let's just jump right into it. 05:19 When you guys think of to the glory of God alone, what comes 05:26 to your mind? 05:27 Let's probe what scripture says, first of all, maybe, I 05:30 don't know if you wanna do it this way or not, what about 05:32 just probing what scripture means when it uses the glory? 05:36 just probing what scripture means when it uses the glory? 05:37 >>DAVID: I think that's a great idea. 05:38 I was just gonna throw in before we do that is our last 05:41 passage that we were in in Table Talk, the last time 05:44 we were together was sola Christo, was 2 Corinthians 3, 05:45 which is that whole epic conversation about glory and 05:51 more glorious and glory and glory and that glory was made, 05:54 you know, less glorious by this surpassing glory. 05:57 I mean, it's awesome. 05:58 From glory to glory. 05:59 So, that's a great point. 06:00 I suppose that there are a lot of well-meaning Christian 06:04 people who are using the word glory and who maybe have not 06:10 adequately thought through what is it that we are talking 06:13 about when we talk about God's glory? 06:15 >>JAMES: I think a good verse to start with would be 06:17 1 Corinthians chapter 1, because it kind of picks up from sola 06:21 Christo and then kind of goes right into glory. 06:25 You know the verse I'm talking about, it's in verses 20, 1 06:28 Corinthians 1, I didn't bring my glasses, so I'm not sure. 06:32 They're off set. 06:35 1 Corinthians 1:29, 30, and 31. 06:41 1 Corinthians 1:29, 30, and 31. 06:42 >>TY: Oh, yeah, now I know what you were referring to. 06:45 >>TY: Oh, yeah, now I know what you were referring to. 06:47 >>JAMES: You gonna read it? 06:48 >>TY: That no flesh should glory in his presence, or in 06:51 his sight, but of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who became 06:56 for us, this is amazing, wisdom for God and 07:01 righteousness and sanctification and redemption 07:05 that, as it is written, he who glories, let him glory in the 07:11 Lord. 07:12 >>JAMES: That's beautiful, that's beautiful. 07:14 >>TY: I think he's quoting from Jeremiah maybe, I don't 07:16 know. 07:17 >>JEFFERY: Jeremiah 9. 07:18 >>TY: Is it? 07:19 >>JEFFERY: Yeah. 07:20 >>JAMES: So, sola Christo was the whole idea that Christ is 07:26 everything and in this, in these verses, it's basically 07:28 saying that very thing, but it's transitioning us now into 07:31 this whole idea of glory. 07:33 So, all glory goes to God because Christ is everything. 07:38 So, the connection is there. 07:39 >>DAVID: He's wisdom, he's righteousness. 07:42 >>JAMES: And this is the thing, as a believer, I'm 07:44 always focusing on the idea that Christ is my 07:47 justification and Christ is my sanctification and Christ is 07:50 my glorification. 07:52 But Paul throws in this other word in here, he's our wisdom. 07:56 He's our wisdom. 07:58 If there's anything that we come up with that seems wise, 08:01 Christ is the author of that. 08:03 If there's anything that we come up with that seems smart 08:06 or intelligent or witty, if there's any kind of thing that 08:10 we do, any kind of thing that we offer to the world, that 08:15 all comes from Christ. 08:16 Christ gets all the glory. 08:18 I think about the Old Testament idea of Solomon's 08:21 temple. 08:23 Solomon's temple. 08:24 That was the second temple, it was the one that Solomon 08:26 built. 08:27 It was Solomon's temple, but, outside of the portable one 08:31 that was built. 08:32 So, we think of it as Solomon's temple, but it 08:36 wasn't really Solomon's temple. 08:38 It was God's temple. 08:39 But it became known as Solomon's temple, and we do 08:42 that, we attach names to things. 08:45 And so, this text is reminding us, wisdom, Christ, Christ, 08:50 wisdom. 08:51 Everything. 08:53 >>TY: You're bringing up so many things in my mind that I 08:54 think could you back up because you're going from 08:57 Solomon's temple, but I'm remembering something, and 09:01 this may be a false memory, is this true that, isn't 09:04 Solomon's temple, isn't there a prophesy about the temple 09:10 being filled with a glory? 09:12 What is it? 09:14 >>DAVID: 1 Kings 8. 09:15 >>TY: Okay, and then, later in the minor prophets, something 09:17 like there's going to be a glory that fills the temple 09:21 and it's a Messianic prophesy, and so that, it's essentially 09:24 saying, isn't it, that, yeah, that Jesus will be the new 09:30 Shekinah that will fill... 09:32 >>JAMES: This temple will have greater glory than Solomon's 09:33 temple. 09:35 >>TY: And it will be Jesus, when he comes to his temple. 09:37 Yeah. 09:38 >>JAMES: See, the thing, the point here, though, I think 09:42 that is really powerful about glory is, the greatest glory 09:44 that we can give to God is the glory of revealing Christ. 09:50 The greatest. 09:52 [Laughter] 09:55 Wait a minute, you went into my bag. 09:57 >>DAVID: Can that say ninja, please? 09:59 >>TY: I'd like a blueberry muffin. 10:03 [Laughter] 10:05 >>JAMES: The greatest glory we can give to God, not the 10:07 greatest, because all this other, salvation I think is 10:09 the greatest. 10:11 Okay, but, outside of salvation, everything we have, 10:14 all of our wisdom, all of our ingenuity, everything that we 10:18 have and everything that we do has its source in Christ. 10:21 And I think sometimes, we separate those two, okay, I've 10:24 got this, I'm gonna give it to, no, we're just returning 10:26 to, anything we receive, we give back to God. 10:29 So, I love this word, this word wisdom because that word, 10:33 in a sense, covers everything else outside of the 10:35 salvationary thing. 10:37 >>TY: And in Paul's context, it's amazing, because he says, 10:40 Christ is our wisdom, and then, he goes on in chapter 2 10:43 to explain that what he means by that is that the common 10:46 wisdom of the world, what the world regards as smart and 10:53 intelligent is the exercise of power over people, and then, 10:58 God's hidden wisdom burst upon the scene that overturns every 11:04 conception of what wisdom really is, is the self 11:07 sacrificing love of Christ at Calvary. 11:11 So, the whole thing is flipped on its head. 11:14 The Greeks are expecting that God equates to power and then 11:21 Christ comes along, dies on the cross, and Paul says, 11:25 that's gonna look kind of foolish, but this is really 11:28 wisdom of a whole different sort on a whole different 11:31 level. 11:33 This is a whole different quality of wisdom here when 11:34 the most powerful person in the universe gives himself for 11:38 others to die on the cross. 11:40 >>JEFFERY: What would you say is at stake here? 11:42 I always, regarding God receiving all the glory, the 11:46 text that we read in Corinthians says, that no 11:48 flesh shall glory in his presence, and that all the 11:53 glory should go to God. 11:54 There's this emphasis in scripture. 11:56 What do you think is at stake for that not to be the case, 12:00 for us not to understand that, for us not to experience that? 12:05 >>TY: The total stability of the universe. 12:06 >>JAMES: And more specifically, I was listening 12:08 to a meeting not long ago that was talking about this, it was 12:12 pretty powerful and it was describing, if I could put it 12:16 in my own words, the idea that what's at stake with God 12:20 getting more of the glory is our very joy and existence and 12:26 experience as human beings. 12:27 >>DAVID: [Laughter] 12:28 You're talking about his presentation. 12:29 >>TY: I think that's a sermon Jeffrey delivered. 12:32 >>DAVID: It's funny 'cause you were saying, yeah, I've heard 12:35 that recently, too. 12:36 I remember that, who was. 12:38 I'm a little slow. 12:40 >>JEFFERY: Back to Genesis 3, the whole idea of, so, in that 12:45 whole train of thought, the way I think of the whole all 12:49 the glory goes to God and that simultaneously means that my 12:54 glory is in the dust, right? 12:56 And it seems like God getting all the glory translates to 13:02 something being stripped from me, right? 13:05 Or that debasement of humanity in order for God to be 13:09 exalted. 13:10 And so, that begs the question, what is at stake 13:13 here? 13:14 When I go back to Genesis 3, back to the Garden, we have an 13:19 example of what happens when human beings try to seize 13:24 God's glory for themselves, right? 13:26 And what happens is exactly that debasement of humanity. 13:31 So, something that seems that exalting God and debasing 13:35 humanity is actually the exact opposite, right. 13:39 When God is not exalted, humanity is debased. 13:46 That doesn't make any sense, that's completely 13:48 counterintuitive. 13:50 If God is not exalted and we, in the dust, we are actually 13:57 debased. 13:59 It's only when God is exalted that we, too, and so, there's 14:03 an author, that's right, an author put it this way, he 14:07 said when we seize what properly belongs to God, 14:12 we lose what properly belongs to us. 14:15 And that's the story of the fall of humanity. 14:20 So, we lost, the human race lost, Adam and Eve lost what 14:23 properly belonged in their jurisdiction to have a 14:27 fulfilling, satisfying and joyful life, they lost that by 14:31 trying to... 14:33 >>DAVID: Seize what was not rightfully theirs. 14:34 >>JEFFERY: What was God's to begin with. 14:36 >>DAVID: I love, you know, you're using the metaphor 14:37 there, which is the appropriate metaphor that when 14:39 God is exalted, it lays the glory of man in the dust and 14:45 the thought just occurred to me there, because you kept 14:46 talking about Genesis 3, Genesis 1 and 2, we are made 14:49 for, isn't that hot? 14:52 So, you have this idea that what are we without God? 14:56 >>JAMES: Oh, come on, keep going, keep going, keep going. 14:58 Keep going. 15:00 >>DAVID: So, if we try to live our life in such a way to be 15:03 like functional atheists where we're taking for ourselves 15:06 what God has given to us, we're just dirt. 15:09 James, go, go, he's gonna explode. 15:13 >>JAMES: So, when we are laid in the dust, then God is going 15:16 to do for us what he originally did. 15:19 He's going to recreate us from the dust. 15:22 When we are laid in the dust, that's when God can actually 15:26 do what he originally intended to do with us. 15:28 >>DAVID: I love what Jeffrey says here how that ideas is 15:31 counterintuitive, because many would hear that, let's be 15:34 honest, if somebody's just tuned into this program, 15:37 they're not a believer and they're saying, how, how do 15:40 you see dignity in suggesting that mankind should be in the 15:44 dust? 15:45 Right, that's a fair question from an outsider looking in. 15:47 Like, no, humans possess dignity, etcetera, etcetera, 15:50 but the truth of the matter is, is that in a universe, 15:52 just imagine momentarily here that there is no God, what 15:56 dignity do humans possess more than a mushroom or more than 16:00 a, you know, than a thundercloud, more than a 16:03 field of grass? 16:06 The answer would be what? 16:07 These are all just atoms sort of arranged in a different 16:09 configurations, the dignity that we have is a dignity that 16:12 is conferred on us by being image bearers of God. 16:17 >>JEFFERY: It's derivative of God's own glory. 16:19 >>DAVID: Which is fascinating because when you read the Old 16:22 Testament, you find that God is regularly and sometimes 16:27 vehemently, regularly, vehemently, denouncing 16:30 idolatry. 16:31 He's like, hey, no idols, no idols. 16:35 I don't want you making idols, I don't want you bowing down 16:37 to idols, and you hear that and you think, well, this is 16:39 kind of, you know, why? 16:41 What's the problem? 16:42 And here's the problem, the problem is on two levels, 16:45 number one, when we make an idol, a god is an idol, 16:49 whatever, God says, I'm not that stone, I'm not that wood, 16:53 I'm not that metal, I'm not that image because I have 16:57 already imaged myself on earth. 16:59 >>TY: David, check this out, what you just said put a light 17:04 on in my head combined with what Jeffrey said and what 17:09 James said. 17:10 Okay, here it is, God says, have no idols, only worship 17:16 me. 17:17 Now, that can sound ego centric. 17:19 That can sound like God is the cosmic narcissist, okay, I 17:23 want you to stand still for eternity and tell me how great 17:25 I am. 17:27 Okay, but, when you just said what you said and it built on 17:31 all of this said, well, why does God say only me and not 17:35 these idols? 17:36 Well, there's a verse, it actually occurs, I know two 17:38 times in the bible, I have no idea where they are, they're 17:41 just in my mind, but they're quote marks, these verses 17:43 exist in scripture, don't have idols because those who 17:47 worship them will become like them. 17:50 So, God's jealousy regarding his glory is an other-centered 17:57 jealousy. 17:58 He's saying, listen, I don't want you worshipping 18:03 malicious, ugly, capricious, coercive, mean spirited idols 18:11 or figments of human imagination of what God is 18:14 really like, I want you to worship me just as I am 18:18 because I'm love. 18:21 I'm a God of love, yeah, it's best for you. 18:23 Because if you worship those idols, those coercive, ugly 18:25 idols, you're gonna become coercive and ugly, but if you 18:27 worship me, you will begin to reflect my love, so it's in 18:33 your best interest, it's in your best interest to worship 18:37 the one and only true God because the one and only true 18:40 God is a God of love. 18:43 You'll become like what you worship. 18:45 >>DAVID: I love it. 18:47 By beholding we are changed and I love this idea, too, 18:50 that idolatry is not only demeaning to God, that God is 18:53 not like those, you know, those descriptions that you 18:56 gave there, but idolatry is also demeaning to humanity. 19:00 No, you're made in the image of God. 19:04 You're gonna set up some stone, some piece of wood and 19:08 bow down to something you made that can't breathe? 19:10 You know, you have that in the Old Testament there where the 19:12 ark was put in the temple of Dagon, it falls over. 19:14 I've just always chuckled at this, so then, the Philistines 19:18 come in and lift Dagon up. 19:21 I mean, the idol can't even lift itself back up. 19:24 So, idolatry is simultaneously degrading to God and to human 19:29 beings. 19:30 >>JEFFERY: That text, you're saying, it's all about when 19:32 you know me, right, only me, then you will reflect who I am 19:36 in love. 19:37 That goes with what Paul is actually quoting from in 19:40 Corinthians, he's quoting actually Jeremiah 9 and 19:44 quickly here, it says, thus says the Lord, verse 23, let 19:47 not the wise man glory in his wisdom, let not the mighty man 19:50 glory in his might. 19:52 Nor let the rich man glory in his riches, but let him who 19:55 glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me. 20:03 That I am the Lord exercising loving kindness. 20:08 So, that text basically says what you were saying, the 20:11 reason why I am demanding, you know, worship only of me and 20:17 not of these idols is because knowing me will allow you then 20:23 to reflect. 20:24 >>TY: What a realization, what a realization, God is not, 20:28 he's not selfish, he's not a narcissist, he's not an 20:31 egomaniac, he's saying give your heart to me and you'll 20:35 become beautiful. 20:37 I want you to be connected with me because it's in your 20:41 best interest. 20:42 We have to take a break on that note, but this discussion 20:44 is off to a really good start. 20:47 is off to a really good start. 20:47 [Music] 20:55 >>Hi, I'm Ty Gibson, welcome to digma.com. 20:59 I am so excited about this website because you're about 21:02 to discover a powerful new way to share life transforming 21:06 messages and videos with your family, friends, and anybody 21:10 else on the planet who has access to a computer. 21:13 Digma is a Greek word. 21:16 It basically means, to show or to reveal something by means 21:19 of a pattern or an example of some kind. 21:22 It's the second half of the word paradigma, from which we 21:26 get the English word paradigm, as in paradigm shift. 21:30 And so, what you're going to find at digma.com is a growing 21:33 library of short videos and transcripts dealing with 21:37 paradigms and fundamental questions. 21:40 What's the meaning of life? 21:42 What is our origin and destiny as human beings? 21:46 What happens when we die? 21:48 Does God exist or are we alone in this vast universe? 21:52 Why is there so much evil and suffering in our world? 21:57 An estimated 70% of Americans have a computer right in their 22:01 home and stay in touch with family and friends by email, 22:06 and more than 400 million people are active on Facebook, 22:10 and 5 million new users are signing up every week. 22:15 We are literally in the midst of a communications revolution 22:20 of massive proportion. 22:22 This is granting the gospel direct and easy access to 22:26 millions upon millions of homes and hearts, and that's 22:31 what digma.com is all about. 22:34 It's a tool for leading our family and friends on an 22:38 exciting paradigm shift by revealing the truth of God's 22:42 creative power and his incredibly beautiful character 22:47 in contrast to our world's popular misconceptions about 22:52 who God is. 22:54 who God is. 23:05 [Music] 23:09 >>TY: Something Jeffrey said in the previous segment 23:13 reminded me of a story that I once heard about a boy, a 23:19 teenage boy who, in a fit of rage and anger pulled out a 23:26 gun and murdered his father. 23:30 Later on, the police officers who had apprehended him, 23:35 arrested him, and put him in a cell reported that they heard 23:40 this boy in his cell at night, whimpering and crying and 23:46 weeping, and saying, I want my father, I want my father. 23:51 Daddy, where are you? 23:52 I want my father. 23:54 I mean, think about this, our world and culture is in the 24:00 process of negating God, of killing off all notion of the 24:07 existence of God and in doing that, we're left fatherless, 24:11 we're left with a void in our hearts that is imposing upon 24:17 humanity a level of sorrow and want and need and desire that 24:22 is just unimaginable. 24:25 There is this massive void. 24:27 When God says to us, hey, I want you to know me, I want to 24:33 be your Father, I want you to be in a relationship with me 24:38 that puts me in my proper place in relation to you. 24:43 God isn't saying in that, I want you to stroke my ego, 24:50 he's saying, I want you to understand who you are in 24:54 relation to me in order to exalt you and to give you the 24:58 dignity and the place in the universe that I have intended 25:03 for you. 25:04 Isn't that...? 25:05 >>JEFFERY: That's brilliant, and I think it goes perfectly 25:09 with, if we were to set this topic in its historical 25:14 context in the reformation, going back to that point, 25:18 'cause we're looking at the subject and looking at 25:22 scripture, but how did the reformers arrive at this sola 25:26 deo gloria, how did they stumble on hat truth? 25:29 And they formulated a statement of faith called the 25:34 Westminster confession, and from that, they made the 25:37 Westminster smaller catechism, these little booklets, and 25:43 they expressed their Protestant faith and they 25:45 mentioned glory and it goes exactly with what you just 25:47 said, and I just wanna read the first of 107 points in 25:54 this document. 25:55 Number one, this is the first one and it's the most famous 25:58 one, and it says this, question, what is the chief 26:02 end of man? 26:04 What is the goal, the whole point of human existence? 26:07 Answer, man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him 26:14 forever. 26:15 Okay, and to me, I've actually been asked before, what's the 26:20 purpose of human life? 26:22 That seems like a simple question, but that's a loaded 26:26 question, what's the purpose of human life? 26:29 How do you answer that question? 26:31 And I haven't arrived at a better on sentence summary 26:35 than... 26:36 >>TY: And this is from the Westminster... 26:37 >>JEFFERY: Smaller catechism, 1648, right? 26:42 The purpose of life is to glorify God and to enjoy him 26:45 forever, and the reason I think this has been life 26:48 changing for me and it's because those two clauses are 26:52 connected, they're inseparable, glorifying God is 26:56 synonymous to enjoying him. 27:00 So, if we process that, that's huge because I think that, I 27:05 think you said, or somebody said, that sounds egotistical 27:08 like, I get all the glory, but if those two things are 27:12 connected, glorifying God is connected to enjoying him, 27:15 that means you can't have one without the other, and that 27:19 means even if God were to thunder from heaven and 27:22 manifest himself in some, I dunno, some pretty impressive 27:27 stuff, some things that we would call glory, God's glory. 27:33 To think, if this is true, that God would actually not be 27:38 glorified unless the human agent finds enjoyment in what 27:43 God is revealing, so in other words, the glory of God is 27:46 contingent to how I respond to his relation of his own glory. 27:50 So, God is basically chaining himself, he's handcuffing 27:55 himself, in a sense, of course, and he's handcuffing 27:59 his glory that it's contingent on the believer and finding 28:04 pleasure in it. 28:05 And if that's true, it's not selfish. 28:08 >>TY: You know what else it implies, Jeffrey? 28:12 It implies that there is, intrinsically, in God, 28:15 enjoyment to be had. 28:17 Do you see that? 28:18 So, we have scriptures like Psalms 16:11, if I'm what is 28:24 So, we have scriptures like Psalms 16:11, if I'm what is 28:26 it? 28:27 At his right hand are pleasures forevermore. 28:29 The word pleasure is loaded. 28:32 Because pleasure has gone way off the rails with human 28:37 beings. 28:38 What we equate as pleasure is a kind of pleasure that 28:45 creates what we call diminishing returns. 28:48 Our world is engaged in pleasure seeking, a kind of 28:53 pleasure that actually can't deliver on what it promises. 28:58 Do you hear what I'm saying? 29:00 Can't deliver on what it's promising. 29:02 For example, lust promises what it can't deliver. 29:07 Lust promises love. 29:09 Lust cannot deliver on that promise. 29:15 Lust, or let me just flip it a little bit here, sex, sex, 29:23 which our culture is obsessed with, sex foreshadows in the 29:29 divine plan or is a window into something called love, 29:34 but if you separate sex from love, by which I mean, if you 29:37 separate sex from commitment and loyalty and devotion and 29:41 faithfulness, sex is reduced to the momentary release of 29:47 physical urges that doesn't equate to anything that's 29:51 sustainable. 29:52 >>JAMES: It's like fast food. 29:54 You need more and more and more and more and more, 29:56 because it doesn't satisfy long term. 29:58 >>TY: But you get full for a short time. 30:00 >>JAMES: Satiated for a full time. 30:02 >>DAVID: The way that I've thought about this, and I love 30:04 what you're saying there, Ty, is that the beauty of sex is 30:06 that it points to something beyond itself. 30:08 But if sex becomes just the thing, it would be like a 30:12 sign, say there's a sign here that says the Taj Mahal this 30:17 way, right, and the Taj Mahal is this big, beautiful, 30:19 amazing ediphus, right, which is awesome, I've not been 30:22 there yet, have any of you been there? 30:24 I've not been there yet, but it would be like going to the 30:26 sign, being like, hey, I went to the sign. 30:30 But did you go to the Taj Mahal? 30:32 I've been to the sign. 30:33 [Laughter] 30:34 It's just a shadow, it's a marker for something. 30:38 >>JAMES: I've seen the picture. 30:39 >>TY: That's what I was gonna say, oftentimes, people, we 30:44 don't even get to the sign, we just saw it on Google, that's 30:48 how far off lust is from love. 30:50 >>JAMES: I really like what you're saying, Ty, it reminds 30:52 me of the verse in Hebrews 11 where it says, and it's 30:56 talking about Moses, Pharaoh and the fact that he could 30:59 have really had a lot of earthly power and 31:02 satisfaction, whatever, and it says that Moses, when he 31:06 became of years, Hebrews 11:24, refused to be called 31:10 the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to suffer 31:13 affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the 31:15 pleasures of sin for a season. 31:18 It's seasonal. 31:19 See, in Psalms 16:11, pleasure is forevermore. 31:26 It's forever. 31:28 God never intended that pleasure would be seasonal. 31:31 So, what's happened is, what's happened is we've gone in and 31:34 we've taken out of pleasure the thing that makes it 31:37 eternal. 31:38 We have, that's why it's fast food. 31:40 >>TY: You have to say that again, 'cause I need that. 31:43 >>DAVID: We've taken out of pleasure the thing that makes 31:45 it eternal, which is God. 31:47 >>JAMES: And so, it becomes seasonal, and so, that's why 31:49 you need more and more and more. 31:51 Because the eternal part, the eternal experience of pleasure 31:53 is satisfying, it satisfies. 31:56 >>DAVID: As a father of two teenage boys, one of the 32:00 things that I've really tried to instill in them, because 32:03 we're living, as you said, in a sex-saturated, we're living 32:06 in the most sensual culture that has ever existed in the 32:08 history of the human, you know, enterprise. 32:10 We've never been here where we are right now. 32:13 We've leveraged technology to, that's right, it's ubiquitous. 32:16 So, one of the things that I said to my boys is rather than 32:21 having them, rather than turning them off of sex and 32:24 saying, hey, we don't. 32:25 >>JEFFERY: It's bad. 32:27 >>DAVID: Yeah, from a very young age, we have spoken to 32:29 our two boys, Violet and I, about sex and we have always 32:32 spoken about it in super positive, it's awesome, you're 32:36 gonna love it, it's amazing, when you find that person to 32:39 whom you give yourself, and the thing that I've emphasized 32:41 with them again and again is not only that sex is awesome 32:43 and amazing and a gift from God, but that sex is not just 32:46 something that takes place between two bodies in 32:49 proximity, but two human beings in love. 32:54 Right, that's the lie of lust, isn't it? 32:57 That sex finds its fulfillment in two bodies that are 32:59 proximate. 33:00 But that's not the case, it's two people, two human beings 33:03 with dreams and hopes and desires and loves and fears 33:08 that are yielding themselves in selflessness to the other. 33:12 You divorce that, and you're just standing in front of the 33:14 sign that says Taj Mahal, and let's be honest, the sign, 33:16 over time, will get, in fact, just the other day, we were in 33:20 a grocery store, we were checking out, this is in 33:23 Australia, just before we came here and I was with Landon, my 33:27 oldest, 16, and there was a Cosmopolitan magazine or Vanity 33:31 Fair, one of those magazines there, and you know, these are 33:33 forever advertising some sexual breakthrough and this 33:36 one said something like, you know, 15 sexual positions 33:40 you've never, and I said, Landon, let me just explain 33:42 something to you. 33:43 The human body has been with the human body is from the 33:46 beginning, there's only so many permutations here, right, 33:49 this is a lie. 33:51 What they're doing is, they are conceding that at some 33:53 level, their sexual experience is deeply unsatisfying. 33:57 So, they're trying to invent some new novel, no. 34:00 There's no new, there's no breakthrough position, there's 34:03 no, it's about giving yourself not just to a body, but to a 34:06 human. 34:07 And I'm saying this to my 16 year old son, and he's like, 34:09 yeah, dad, I get it dad. 34:12 This idea of joy, God clearly created, and you just pulled 34:16 this one out. 34:18 There's lots of joys we could talk about, we could talk 34:19 about the joy of music, the joy of fellowship, there's 34:21 many joys, but this is one in which the thing has been 34:25 extracted from its context and people are finding it, 34:30 diminishingly satisfying. 34:32 Surprise, surprise. 34:33 >>JEFFERY: Isn't it bizarre that Adam and Eve were placed 34:36 in the Garden of Eden, we've talked about this, and Eden is 34:38 pleasure, the Garden of Pleasure and back to our 34:41 earlier point, when we try to seize what properly belongs to 34:45 God, we lose what properly belongs to ourselves. 34:47 So, here they are, reaching outside of the safe boundaries 34:52 that is human function, how humans were intended to 34:56 function. 34:57 And they're in the Garden of Pleasure. 35:00 That just tells us at the gate how God feels about pleasure 35:04 and how integral pleasure was to be in the human experience. 35:09 But when we say, and when we say that in the context of 35:15 contemporary life, when I say pleasure should be integral to 35:17 your life, it sounds crazy. 35:21 Yet it's biblical. 35:24 >>TY: There is a sanctified hedonism, according to Jeffrey 35:27 Rosario, it was over my head, I don't know what you meant by 35:31 that. 35:32 There is something called pleasure that God invented and 35:36 intended for human beings to experience and that's what 35:40 this thing is telling us here. 35:42 What is the chief end of man? 35:44 >>DAVID: To know God and enjoy him forever. 35:47 >>TY: So, enjoyment is intrinsic to knowing God. 35:51 God's not anti-pleasure, he's pro-pleasure and anti-pain. 35:55 >>JEFFERY: Well, more than that, it consists not to know 35:57 him, to glorify him. 35:59 Pleasure is intrinsic in glorifying God. 36:02 When's the last time we thought in those terms? 36:05 We don't think in those terms. 36:06 >>DAVID: And the Christian church has often, not always, 36:10 but often, even the modern church, sort of arrayed itself 36:15 over and against pleasure, like pleasure is something to 36:17 be avoided, pleasure, etcetera. 36:19 And we often talk about loving God, appreciating God, fearing 36:25 God, reverencing God, there's a lot of different sort of 36:29 words that we use to identify the appropriate posture that 36:32 we have in relationship to the almighty. 36:34 All of those are true, but something we don't hard enough 36:38 of is, so we don't need less of something, we need more of 36:41 something, is I just enjoy Yahweh. 36:45 [Laughter] 36:47 He brings so much joy, and you think about the fruit of the 36:51 spirit, love, we got that one, joy. 36:56 God is to be enjoyed, but the portrait, the picture, that 36:59 many have of God is a God who is unenjoyable. 37:03 >>TY: Unenjoyable God, and yet, God is the source of all 37:07 true joy. 37:09 It's just. 37:10 >>DAVID: Who was the early, was it Erenaius, somebody 37:13 early on said the glory of God is man fully alive. 37:17 Is that, we can look that up, but I think it's Aranius, but 37:23 you know, Sarah Groves has that song, she's got that song 37:25 built on that, it's a beautiful song, but the glory 37:28 of God is man fully alive. 37:32 I have come. 37:33 >>TY: The glory of God is man fully alive, I'm gonna find 37:37 out who said that because I love it and I wanna quote it 37:39 for the rest of my life. 37:42 for the rest of my life. 37:43 >>JAMES: Your phone is, see, I'm doing the same thing 37:46 because, yeah, this is, this conversation is really 37:50 sparking a lot of issues for me, I was raised... 37:56 >>TY: Got it. 37:57 >>DAVID: Who was it? 37:58 >>TY: You are exactly right, one of the early 38:02 post-apostolic fathers of Christianity, go ahead, James. 38:07 >>JAMES: I was raised in a church that was quite 38:08 orthodox, quite formal, and my mom tells me that when she was 38:13 raised, so we're talking now '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, in 38:19 her, and European background and American, but in her 38:23 church culture, 'cause you know, culture changed. 38:29 Same church, but culture changes that sex and those 38:34 kinds of , you know, that kind of activity was considered 38:41 something that was dirty, something that was shameful, 38:46 something that was, yeah, gotta have kids, but that's 38:50 about it. 38:51 And when she became enlightened, because she went 38:56 through the '60s revolution. 38:58 When I was raised, my mom had on her wall in her bedroom, 39:03 Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, you know, all 39:06 of the voices that came out of that culture, that '60s 39:11 culture, I was raised listening to all of that 39:13 music, and she was fully liberated, if you know what 39:17 I'm saying. 39:18 Yeah, so, when you, society swings to this extreme of 39:22 taking out of its context what God has made, what God has 39:26 created, the way that I , the words that I grabbed from 39:29 David I thought was really good, when we extract what God 39:31 has made and we take it out of its original context, we will 39:36 find that it is diminishing and you said -ly. 39:39 >>DAVID: Diminishingly satisfying. 39:41 >>JAMES: Diminishingly satisfying. 39:42 And no surprise. 39:43 Right? 39:44 That's what you said. 39:45 I can't find the word diminishingly as a correct 39:47 word. 39:48 Okay, and you can do it. 39:49 And I love that, and so what happens then when we do it, 39:54 culturally, there's finally gonna be a breaking point, and 39:58 the culture's gonna react to that and swing the other way, 40:02 and I feel like that's what we're seeing and it all goes 40:05 back to this idea of giving God the glory. 40:08 In other words, putting him so that we in response find our 40:14 place. 40:15 I love it. 40:16 I just think it's beautiful. 40:17 >>TY: We have to take a break, we're actually two minutes 40:19 over, and David, just hold, don't forget. 40:22 >>DAVID: I won't forget, I've got it written down. 40:24 >>TY: Let's take a break, we'll come right back. 40:26 >>DAVID: I won't forget, I've got it written down. 40:26 [Music] 40:37 Announcer: Digma videos are short, engaging messages 40:39 designed for opening up discussion with individuals 40:42 and groups regarding the character of God as well as 40:46 for your own personal spiritual growth. 40:48 For your free DVD sample collection of Digma videos, 40:51 call 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 40:57 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 41:03 Once again, for your free DVD sample collection of Digma 41:06 videos, call 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 41:13 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 41:19 Simply ask for Digma DVD 3. 41:22 [Music] 41:26 [Music] 41:28 >>TY: David, you had something on the tip of your 41:29 tongue. 41:30 >>DAVID: Well, I had three things that were jumping out 41:32 at me, but the last thing, and I'll get to all of them here, 41:34 but the last thing was when James was talking, James, just 41:37 remind me, because I know what I was gonna say, but how does 41:39 it tie in with your last point? 41:40 We were talking about the diminishing. 41:43 >>JAMES: That when we extract what God has made us to be, 41:46 when we take it out of its original context, we will find 41:49 that it diminishes our satisfaction. 41:51 >>DAVID: Okay, so the thing that I was thinking about 41:54 there is that, tying that in with this idea of wisdom, we 41:57 were in Jeremiah 9, remember, let not the wise man glory in 42:01 his wisdom, let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, 42:03 mighty man glory in his might, rich man glory in his riches, 42:06 okay, you know that you have the personification of wisdom 42:09 in Proverbs 8, tell me if you love this, or this thought 42:12 just occurred to me, in Proverbs chapter 8, you have 42:14 this personification of wisdom, it's very Messianic, 42:18 you know, I was, daily his delight rejoicing before him, 42:22 before the mountains were formed, do we know what we're 42:24 talking about here? 42:25 The whole section of Proverbs 8 is taking wisdom and 42:28 personifying it and I've always loved the last verse of 42:33 Proverbs chapter 8. 42:34 Do you remember what it says, there's this whole wisdom is 42:37 amazing, wisdom is awesome. 42:38 Those who hate me love death. 42:41 So, when we, exactly, when we embrace the wisdom of God in 42:49 Christ, 'cause Christ, when we embrace that, we are living 42:52 the life that Christ made for, I've come that they might have 42:55 life and have it more abundantly. 42:56 When we reject that, we are, we talked about this in a past 43:00 session. 43:01 Though we might be living, we're embracing death. 43:06 When you divorce the pleasure from the origin of the 43:11 pleasure, you are not alive. 43:13 >>TY: Well, let me read the text because it says even 43:15 more, it says, for whoever finds me, wisdom, personified 43:21 wisdom, for whoever finds me finds life, and obtains, 43:26 obtains favor from the Lord. 43:31 But he who sins against me, that is, against wisdom, 43:36 wrongs his own soul, all those who hate me love death. 43:42 >>JEFFERY: So it's to your own detriment to seek your own 43:45 autonomy. 43:46 >>TY: By the way, guys, I found those scriptures that I 43:48 couldn't remember, Psalm 115, verse 8, and 135:18, those who 43:53 worship idols become like them. 43:55 Psalm 115 verse 8 and Psalm 135 verse 18. 44:00 Just 'cause I know somebody during the break was asking 44:03 for them. 44:04 Yeah. 44:05 So, that's the problem with idolatry. 44:07 It's not an ego thing with God, he's not saying, hey, 44:10 don't worship any other gods or idols because I need you to 44:15 stroke my ego. 44:16 That's not the point. 44:18 The point is don't worship any other gods or imaginary 44:22 pictures of God that you might concoct because you're 44:24 impressionable, you're a creature that reflects 44:28 whatever occupies the highest place in your estimation. 44:32 God has to occupy the highest place in our estimation 44:35 because we're gonna become like whatever it is that 44:38 occupies that place. 44:39 >>JAMES: Let's go one step further, just to add to that. 44:42 Don't worship idols because idolatry is the essence of 44:45 self worship, worship me because I'm the essence of 44:48 others-centered worship. 44:49 I'm the essence, I am the epitome of others-centered 44:53 thinking, whereas idolatry is the epitome of glorifying 44:57 self. 44:58 Who made that idol? 44:59 I did. 45:00 Why are you worshipping that idol? 45:02 Because it's... 45:03 >>JEFFERY: Looking at the Garden and Adam and Eve, do 45:05 you remember this, he said, they wanted a corner in the 45:08 universe to mark their own and to say God, this is our 45:11 business. 45:12 Then, he said, they wanted so desperately to be nouns that 45:16 they would have to remain adjectives. 45:18 So, the idea is, why you're saying the reason idolatry's 45:23 wrong is because it's really, you're actually not even 45:26 worshipping something else. 45:27 You're just worshipping yourself. 45:29 >>TY: And CS Lewis, I don't know if it's in that same 45:31 connection, but he also, at one point, said this profound 45:35 thing, human beings want happiness without God and 45:41 alas, there is no such thing. 45:43 It doesn't exist. 45:45 >>DAVID: He actually, in that same quotation, he says, 45:49 people ask, why can't God just give us happiness apart from 45:52 himself, that's the question. 45:54 And the answer is that's not possible, not even for God. 45:59 He is the source of joy. 46:00 To know God and to enjoy him forever. 46:03 To glorify God, you know, how is this not... 46:05 >>JAMES: And he is such that if it were possible, he would 46:08 do it, but it's not. 46:09 >>DAVID: Let me land this, I'm sorry, James, I didn't mean to 46:11 cut you off there, what was the thing you just said. 46:13 >>JAMES: I was just saying that God is so selfless that 46:16 he would do whatever it would take, but it is not possible. 46:18 >>JEFFERY: He would if he could but he can't. 46:20 >>JAMES: And that's what we see at the cross. 46:22 He would do whatever. 46:24 He would take himself. 46:25 If we think that happiness could exist without God, he 46:28 will take himself out of the picture and show us that it 46:30 doesn't. 46:31 We're not happy without him. 46:32 We're lost, we're miserable. 46:33 >>DAVID: There's something I wanna say that I'll come back 46:35 to in a second, but it reminds me of that illustration that 46:38 you used, Ty, at the beginning of not this session, but the 46:40 last one where you talked about the boy who shot his 46:43 father and then was heard later, you know, crying out 46:45 for his father, we know socially and psychologically, 46:49 developmentally, that the absence of a father, what's 46:54 called absenteeism from fatherhood or whatever, that 46:58 that is just debilitating, developmentally for children. 47:01 I mean, people can recover from it, my father left me 47:03 when I was very young. 47:04 Fortunately, when I became almost a teenager, my mom 47:07 married an amazing man, Richard Assherick, but there 47:10 was a period in my life where there was a father void. 47:13 You had that experience, you've had that, and you've 47:15 had that. 47:16 Whoa. 47:17 >>TY: And I never had anyone step in, you were very 47:19 fortunate. 47:20 >>DAVID: That's why I took his last name. 47:22 Strangely enough, that's another story, but the reason, 47:24 what I was gonna say is is that that same pathology that 47:29 develops or pathologies that potentially develop from an 47:32 absentee human father has its analogue in the absence of a 47:38 heavenly Father. 47:39 I don't know how you guys feel, but I sometimes, whether 47:41 it's listening to the news or driving down the highway, this 47:44 sense of sort of depressive foreboding comes on me in 47:47 strange times. 47:49 And I will get this sense, I will literally have the 47:52 thought, how are people coping in the absence of the sense of 47:58 the heavenly Father's love? 48:01 Now, somebody's gonna hear that and say, you're 48:04 psychologically weak, you need a crutch. 48:06 I don't know, I think I'm a reasonably intelligent, 48:09 observant, analytical person. 48:12 I think that people are medicating, I think they're 48:15 drinking, I think they're, you know, I'm saying, coping, this 48:20 world, this world that we're living in right now, what do 48:22 you wanna talk about? 48:23 Environmentalism? 48:24 What, terrorism? 48:25 You wanna talk about what do you wanna talk about? 48:27 You wanna talk about the economic disparity between the 48:29 rich and the poor? 48:30 Do you know that the 8 wealthiest people in the 48:32 world, the 8 wealthiest people in the world have more wealth, 48:36 8, than the poorest 3.6 billion. 48:42 That's half the earth's population. 48:44 So, this isn't a commentary on that as such political, I'm 48:47 not making a political statement here, I'm just 48:49 saying that this world is very hard to cope with day in, day 48:53 out. 48:54 A good friend of ours, we just learned, I just learned today 48:58 or last night, has cancer, a very serious cancer. 49:02 Fortunately, he's a man that loves Jesus very much. 49:05 How are people coping? 49:06 And the answer is, they're not. 49:08 >>JEFFERY: But you asked a question, you asked a 49:11 question, you know, how can they go on without that 49:16 source? 49:17 The thing, though, is, if you process your own childhood, 49:19 like my father separated from my mother before I could walk, 49:24 so that was the normal, right? But the more I interact with 49:28 other friends, I realized, oh, they have mom and dad at 49:31 home, which, to me, was new. 49:33 I didn't, I couldn't even process that, but the more I 49:36 got to know people, the more I realized how my friends hated 49:39 their dads and how many of their dads were deadbeats and 49:43 I arrived to the conclusion in my early teens, 13, 14, you 49:48 know what, I'm glad I grew up without a father, because if 49:52 that's what I would have had, I'm glad I just had my mom. 49:58 And the analogue, again, is the same, how do so many 50:03 people, how are they able to cope? 50:05 It's because they're thinking, in their own conception, if 50:08 that's what the heavenly Father is like, it stinks that 50:12 I don't have a dad at home, it stinks that it's just my mom, 50:15 it stinks that we're on welfare, it stinks that I 50:18 don't have all of that, but at least it's not that. 50:21 [Laughter] 50:22 Right? 50:24 So, to me, my childhood to me is a window to how it must be, 50:30 I can only say must because 'cause I met Jesus when I was 50:33 17 years old, and like you, I can't even fathom functioning 50:38 without my worldview in place. 50:41 But maybe it's because of that. 50:43 >>JAMES: What he said just now is my world. 50:46 So, for several years, my mom had a boyfriend and this guy 50:50 was evil personified, you know, he was alcoholic. 50:58 >>TY: Was that the guy who was with my mom? 51:01 Yep. 51:03 Bingo. 51:04 [Laughter] 51:05 >>JAMES: I remember waking up my mom just beat up, knife to 51:07 the throat, all kinds of stuff. 51:09 And getting woke up in the middle of the night and being 51:14 taken from one place, one city to another city in the middle 51:18 of a snowstorm just because of whatever, I can't even tell 51:21 you the issues that were going on and what you just said, I 51:24 realized it because see, what I did, in a sense, I blocked 51:28 that out. 51:29 I think, in my mind, I was raised without a dad, I was 51:32 raised without a father, no, actually, there were these 51:34 guys, there was this guys who was in our life for years, and 51:38 no way, thank you. 51:40 Well, I told my mom one day, I said, mom, I said, I hate the 51:44 life that you've brought us into with him, get him out. 51:48 >>DAVID: How old were you? 51:49 >>JAMES: I was 14 at that time, and she said to me, it 51:52 was like, to her, it was like, really, wow. 51:55 And it rocked her, she was willing to do it. 51:57 And I remember him, he would come to the house and he would 51:59 be knocking on the door, knocking on the door, in the 52:01 middle of the night to get in and she wouldn't open the door 52:03 because of what I had said, you know, about, but that was 52:05 kind of, in a sense, blocked out, it was like, no, I never 52:08 really had a dad, because I didn't want a dad like that, I 52:11 wanted nothing to do with that kind of dad. 52:13 >>TY: I grew up writing my name at school, Ty Ross. 52:20 None of you know me by the name Ty Ross. 52:24 That was my name, R-O-S-S. 52:27 My last name was Ross, that's what I wrote on my papers, Ty 52:30 Ross, because the guy that was my dad was named Charles Ross. 52:39 Turns out, he wasn't my dad. 52:41 I didn't know that, I thought he was. 52:44 That was the guy, he was not my biological dad. 52:48 He was the guy that was brutalizing my mother and 52:50 there was so cognitive and emotional dissonance in my 52:54 world that the moment my mom told me, he's not your dad, I 53:00 said, then who is? 53:03 And she said a name. 53:05 Jonathan Gibson. 53:08 And in a matter of weeks, it began, not right then on the 53:13 spot, I was just a kid, but in a matter of weeks, it dawned 53:16 on me that I wanted a sharp disassociation, and I said 53:21 mom, could I be Ty Gibson? 53:24 And she said, well, that's on your birth certificate, you 53:26 can switch to that. 53:28 [Laughter] 53:29 So, I switched to Ty Gibson an here's the thing, I've 53:31 never met the Gibson guy. 53:33 I don't even know who he is. 53:35 He could be a monster, too, but at least, I'm building on 53:36 what Jeffrey was saying, at least, with Jonathan Gibson, 53:41 there's a blank that I can, it's an empty canvas, I can 53:46 fill in whatever I want. 53:47 >>DAVID: And Gibson make great guitars. 53:50 >>TY: And Gibson make guitars, that's right. 53:52 So, I mean, seriously. 53:53 >>JEFFERY: You could've been Ty Ross. 53:55 >>DAVID: Dude, check this out, my birth name is David Cross. 53:59 We could be sitting here right now Ty Ross. 54:01 >>TY: Ty Ross, Jeffrey whatever, James whatever, 54:04 yeah, it's just nuts. 54:07 >>DAVID: So, don't we have to go to Revelation chapter 14 to 54:09 end this? 54:11 >>TY: Well, before we go to Revelation 14, you go there 54:12 and I go to one right before there? 54:13 >>DAVID: Yeah, go. 54:15 >>TY: So, on the level of Protestant reformation, and to 54:18 the glory of God alone, alright, we have to look at 54:22 briefly Ephesians chapter 2, verses 8-10, because this is 54:26 where the reformers were coming from, for by grace, you 54:30 have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it 54:36 is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should 54:40 boast. 54:42 That word boast is glory. 54:44 It could be translated glory, it's the Greek word, I 54:46 believe, if I'm not wrong doxa, D-O-X-A, so essentially, 54:52 what he's saying, that in the scope of the gospel and 54:54 salvation, he's saying salvation is by grace alone, 54:57 through faith alone, in Christ alone, so there is no glory, 55:01 it's to the glory of God alone. 55:03 There is no glory for human beings in this salvation 55:05 enterprise. 55:06 David. 55:08 >>DAVID: I'm basking in that. 55:09 So, Revelation chapter 14, verse 6, right? 55:13 So, I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having 55:15 the everlasting gospel to preach to those that dwell on 55:17 the earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, 55:19 saying with a loud voice, fear God and give glory to him, 55:22 which, you know, we've probably heard that and spoken 55:28 that and communicated that in a lot of different ways, but 55:30 how about if we said, what if the text said, fear God and 55:35 enjoy him for it. 55:36 Right? 55:39 I mean, are you kidding me? 55:40 >>TY: We're not doing any theological damage to that. 55:43 That's what it means. 55:46 >>DAVID: Fear God and enjoy him. 55:49 It's not compulsory. 55:51 You better, it's privilege, you get to. 55:54 >>JAMES: And in the context of Ephesians, fear God and trust 55:58 in him, in the context of 1 Corinthians, trust in his 56:01 works, his merits, his faith, everything's a gift from God 56:04 so trust in everything he's done for you without you. 56:06 >>DAVID: See, God gets all the glory because there's no 56:09 residual glory left to go to us. 56:12 >>TY: But there's a whole lot of enjoyment that comes from 56:16 God's glory when we understand it in its proper place. 56:21 Man, what a great discussion this has been. 56:24 [Music] 56:35 蛂usic] |
Revised 2018-01-18