[Music]
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[Music]
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>>TY: Man, this has been
such a great conversation around
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this table.
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For those who are sitting
in with us, we just wanna kinda
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set the table one more time,
set the table, 'cause this is
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Table Talk, one more time,
and first of all, just say what
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we're doing here.
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We're engaged in a way of
interacting that comes to us
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from the Protestant reformation.
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I mean, people were
doing it before the Protestant
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reformation, people have
been doing it after, but Martin
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Luther actually came up
with the idea of hey, let's do a
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Table Talk.
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Once he launched the
Protestant reformation, he
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just sat around a table with
common people, average people,
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because you have to remember,
at that time, the idea was
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that spiritual knowledge
and theology and doctrine in the
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bible was exclusive to
the clergy, to the priests, to
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those who had some kind
of elite spiritual position.
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And Luther said, no, the
common person can understand
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the word of God.
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>>DAVID: Common man
is beginning to think.
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>>TY: The common man is
beginning to think, and you're
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not going to find in Luther
the idea that hey, you should
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believe what is being said
by me because I'm in a position
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of superiority over
you, therefore, you ought to
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believe it.
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What you're gonna find in
Luther is, study the bible for
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yourself, and you can ask
questions and God will give
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answers.
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And so, let's sit around
the table and let's have a
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discussion and you can
bring up anything you want.
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This is a heritage that
has come down to us from Martin
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Luther based on the
idea of the priesthood of all
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believers.
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So, what a joy it is to have
the privilege of thinking and
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conversing, and we know
because we've heard over the
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years, this is season 5 of
Table Talk, we know because
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people have told us, hey, we
saw you doing that, so me and
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my girlfriends get together,
one lady told me, in our
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kitchen and we do our
own version of Table Talk.
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And there are other
people around the world who have
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said, we're just gonna do that.
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We're gonna get together
and we're gonna talk about
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whatever we wanna talk
about regarding the word of God.
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Theology, God,
it's just amazing.
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It's a beautiful thing.
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So, in a sense, we've
started a little movement that
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hopefully will grow.
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We're doing this because we
wanna share concepts that we
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believe are vital and
important, but we're also
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doing this to model,
hey, everybody out there, get
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together with intentionality.
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Get together, open the bible,
and just start talking about
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whatever you wanna talk about.
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So, what a privilege.
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>>JAMES: How apropos
that we're doing season 5 on
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reformation 500.
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>>TY: That's right.
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>>DAVID: Oh,
that's good, excellent.
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Even though, we thought,
and you wanted it to be Daniel.
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Daniel will be next year.
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>>TY: Well, we all
wanted it to be Daniel.
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>>DAVID: That's what I'm
saying, James is the Daniel
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scholar though.
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James, he knows about
Daniel than us put together.
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>>TY: Daniel could do an
entire season of Table Talk,
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all 13, I mean
James could, not Daniel.
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James could do an entire
season of Table Talk himself,
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all 13 episodes
on just Daniel 11.
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[Laughter]
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[Laughter]
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>>JEFFERY: Sitting
at the table alone.
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>>TY: He could just jump
from chair to chair and interact
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with himself on that subject.
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>>JAMES: No, no, no,
that would be boring.
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>>TY: So, we decided, hey,
this is the 500th year of the
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Protestant reformation,
the anniversary, so let's just
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talk about that, and man,
it's been rich, and right now,
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we're at that part of our
discussion on the Protestant
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reformation where we're going
through the 5 solas, and we've
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so far covered sola scriptura,
and then we went into sola
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gracia, then we went into sola
fida, and then sola Christo,
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Christ alone, and now,
we're at sola deo gloria, and
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this...
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>>JEFFERY: I love
hearing you say that.
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>>TY: Well, you've
got, you roll the r.
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>>JEFFERY: I like
the way you say it.
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Say it again.
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>>TY: Okay, sola deo gloria.
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Did I roll them a little bit?
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Okay.
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So, you say it, 'cause I
wanna hear you say it with that
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Dominican tone.
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>>JEFFERY: I don't wanna
interrupt your flow, keep
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going.
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>>TY: Come on Jeffrey, say it.
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>>JEFFERY: [In an American
accent] Sola deo gloria.
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>>TY: No.
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[Laughter]
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You just said it like me.
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Okay, so here's the thing,
this is essentially that all
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that we've talked about
so far, grace and faith and
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Christ and scripture, and
the entire enterprise of the
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gospel is to the
glory of God alone.
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To the glory of God alone.
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And that's what we're
gonna plow into right now.
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We're gonna...
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>>DAVID: I love that
the entire enterprise of the
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gospel.
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>>TY: Not the Starship
Enterprise, but the gospel
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enterprise.
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That's right.
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So, let's just
jump right into it.
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When you guys think of to the
glory of God alone, what comes
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to your mind?
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Let's probe what scripture
says, first of all, maybe, I
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don't know if you wanna do
it this way or not, what about
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just probing what scripture
means when it uses the glory?
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just probing what scripture
means when it uses the glory?
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>>DAVID: I think
that's a great idea.
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I was just gonna throw in
before we do that is our last
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passage that we were in
in Table Talk, the last time
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we were together was sola
Christo, was 2 Corinthians 3,
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which is that whole epic
conversation about glory and
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more glorious and glory and
glory and that glory was made,
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you know, less glorious
by this surpassing glory.
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I mean, it's awesome.
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From glory to glory.
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So, that's a great point.
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I suppose that there are a
lot of well-meaning Christian
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people who are using the word
glory and who maybe have not
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adequately thought through
what is it that we are talking
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about when we
talk about God's glory?
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>>JAMES: I think a good
verse to start with would be
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1 Corinthians chapter 1, because
it kind of picks up from sola
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Christo and then kind
of goes right into glory.
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You know the verse I'm talking
about, it's in verses 20, 1
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Corinthians 1, I didn't bring
my glasses, so I'm not sure.
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They're off set.
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1 Corinthians 1:29, 30, and 31.
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1 Corinthians 1:29, 30, and 31.
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>>TY: Oh, yeah, now I know
what you were referring to.
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>>TY: Oh, yeah, now I know
what you were referring to.
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>>JAMES: You gonna read it?
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>>TY: That no flesh should
glory in his presence, or in
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his sight, but of him, you
are in Christ Jesus, who became
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for us, this is
amazing, wisdom for God and
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righteousness and
sanctification and redemption
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that, as it is written, he who
glories, let him glory in the
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Lord.
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>>JAMES: That's
beautiful, that's beautiful.
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>>TY: I think he's quoting
from Jeremiah maybe, I don't
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know.
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>>JEFFERY: Jeremiah 9.
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>>TY: Is it?
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>>JEFFERY: Yeah.
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>>JAMES: So, sola Christo was
the whole idea that Christ is
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everything and in this, in
these verses, it's basically
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saying that very thing, but
it's transitioning us now into
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this whole idea of glory.
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So, all glory goes to God
because Christ is everything.
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So, the connection is there.
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>>DAVID: He's
wisdom, he's righteousness.
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>>JAMES: And this is the
thing, as a believer, I'm
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always focusing on
the idea that Christ is my
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justification and Christ is
my sanctification and Christ is
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my glorification.
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But Paul throws in this other
word in here, he's our wisdom.
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He's our wisdom.
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If there's anything that we
come up with that seems wise,
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Christ is the author of that.
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If there's anything that we
come up with that seems smart
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or intelligent or witty, if
there's any kind of thing that
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we do, any kind of thing
that we offer to the world, that
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all comes from Christ.
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Christ gets all the glory.
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I think about the Old
Testament idea of Solomon's
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temple.
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Solomon's temple.
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That was the second temple,
it was the one that Solomon
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built.
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It was Solomon's temple,
but, outside of the portable one
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that was built.
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So, we think of it as
Solomon's temple, but it
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wasn't really Solomon's temple.
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It was God's temple.
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But it became known as
Solomon's temple, and we do
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that, we attach names to things.
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And so, this text is reminding
us, wisdom, Christ, Christ,
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wisdom.
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Everything.
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>>TY: You're bringing up so
many things in my mind that I
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think could you back up
because you're going from
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Solomon's temple, but I'm
remembering something, and
00:08:57.80\00:09:01.04
this may be a false
memory, is this true that, isn't
00:09:01.04\00:09:04.04
Solomon's temple, isn't there
a prophesy about the temple
00:09:04.04\00:09:10.38
being filled with a glory?
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What is it?
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>>DAVID: 1 Kings 8.
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>>TY: Okay, and then, later
in the minor prophets, something
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like there's going to be a
glory that fills the temple
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and it's a Messianic prophesy,
and so that, it's essentially
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saying, isn't it, that,
yeah, that Jesus will be the new
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Shekinah that will fill...
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>>JAMES: This temple will have
greater glory than Solomon's
00:09:32.27\00:09:33.84
temple.
00:09:33.84\00:09:35.00
>>TY: And it will be Jesus,
when he comes to his temple.
00:09:35.00\00:09:37.24
Yeah.
00:09:37.24\00:09:38.81
>>JAMES: See, the thing,
the point here, though, I think
00:09:38.81\00:09:42.04
that is really powerful about
glory is, the greatest glory
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that we can give to God is
the glory of revealing Christ.
00:09:44.91\00:09:50.99
The greatest.
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[Laughter]
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Wait a minute,
you went into my bag.
00:09:55.16\00:09:57.66
>>DAVID: Can that
say ninja, please?
00:09:57.66\00:09:59.93
>>TY: I'd like a
blueberry muffin.
00:09:59.93\00:10:03.06
[Laughter]
00:10:03.06\00:10:05.37
>>JAMES: The greatest glory
we can give to God, not the
00:10:05.37\00:10:07.37
greatest, because all this
other, salvation I think is
00:10:07.37\00:10:09.97
the greatest.
00:10:09.97\00:10:11.37
Okay, but, outside of
salvation, everything we have,
00:10:11.37\00:10:14.88
all of our wisdom, all of our
ingenuity, everything that we
00:10:14.88\00:10:18.81
have and everything that we
do has its source in Christ.
00:10:18.81\00:10:21.68
And I think sometimes, we
separate those two, okay, I've
00:10:21.68\00:10:24.19
got this, I'm gonna give it
to, no, we're just returning
00:10:24.19\00:10:26.99
to, anything we
receive, we give back to God.
00:10:26.99\00:10:29.86
So, I love this word, this
word wisdom because that word,
00:10:29.86\00:10:33.70
in a sense, covers
everything else outside of the
00:10:33.70\00:10:35.70
salvationary thing.
00:10:35.70\00:10:37.13
>>TY: And in Paul's context,
it's amazing, because he says,
00:10:37.13\00:10:40.14
Christ is our wisdom, and
then, he goes on in chapter 2
00:10:40.14\00:10:43.24
to explain that what he
means by that is that the common
00:10:43.24\00:10:46.47
wisdom of the world, what
the world regards as smart and
00:10:46.47\00:10:53.15
intelligent is the exercise
of power over people, and then,
00:10:53.15\00:10:58.85
God's hidden wisdom burst upon
the scene that overturns every
00:10:58.85\00:11:04.23
conception of what
wisdom really is, is the self
00:11:04.23\00:11:07.93
sacrificing love
of Christ at Calvary.
00:11:07.93\00:11:11.60
So, the whole thing
is flipped on its head.
00:11:11.60\00:11:14.30
The Greeks are expecting that
God equates to power and then
00:11:14.30\00:11:21.08
Christ comes along, dies
on the cross, and Paul says,
00:11:21.08\00:11:25.08
that's gonna look kind of
foolish, but this is really
00:11:25.08\00:11:28.32
wisdom of a whole different
sort on a whole different
00:11:28.32\00:11:31.95
level.
00:11:31.95\00:11:33.09
This is a whole different
quality of wisdom here when
00:11:33.09\00:11:34.29
the most powerful person in
the universe gives himself for
00:11:34.29\00:11:38.73
others to die on the cross.
00:11:38.73\00:11:40.13
>>JEFFERY: What would
you say is at stake here?
00:11:40.13\00:11:42.26
I always, regarding God
receiving all the glory, the
00:11:42.26\00:11:46.23
text that we read in
Corinthians says, that no
00:11:46.23\00:11:48.27
flesh shall glory in his
presence, and that all the
00:11:48.27\00:11:53.21
glory should go to God.
00:11:53.21\00:11:54.91
There's this
emphasis in scripture.
00:11:54.91\00:11:56.51
What do you think is at stake
for that not to be the case,
00:11:56.51\00:12:00.72
for us not to understand that,
for us not to experience that?
00:12:00.72\00:12:05.19
>>TY: The total
stability of the universe.
00:12:05.19\00:12:06.62
>>JAMES: And more
specifically, I was listening
00:12:06.62\00:12:08.79
to a meeting not long ago that
was talking about this, it was
00:12:08.79\00:12:12.26
pretty powerful and it was
describing, if I could put it
00:12:12.26\00:12:16.90
in my own words, the idea
that what's at stake with God
00:12:16.90\00:12:20.37
getting more of the glory is
our very joy and existence and
00:12:20.37\00:12:26.04
experience as human beings.
00:12:26.04\00:12:27.64
>>DAVID: [Laughter]
00:12:27.64\00:12:28.64
You're talking
about his presentation.
00:12:28.64\00:12:29.81
>>TY: I think that's a
sermon Jeffrey delivered.
00:12:29.81\00:12:32.35
>>DAVID: It's funny 'cause you
were saying, yeah, I've heard
00:12:32.35\00:12:35.15
that recently, too.
00:12:35.15\00:12:36.62
I remember that, who was.
00:12:36.62\00:12:38.35
I'm a little slow.
00:12:38.35\00:12:40.36
>>JEFFERY: Back to Genesis 3,
the whole idea of, so, in that
00:12:40.36\00:12:45.23
whole train of thought, the
way I think of the whole all
00:12:45.23\00:12:49.23
the glory goes to God and that
simultaneously means that my
00:12:49.23\00:12:54.47
glory is in the dust, right?
00:12:54.47\00:12:56.10
And it seems like God getting
all the glory translates to
00:12:56.10\00:13:02.44
something being
stripped from me, right?
00:13:02.44\00:13:05.21
Or that debasement of
humanity in order for God to be
00:13:05.21\00:13:09.45
exalted.
00:13:09.45\00:13:10.49
And so, that begs the
question, what is at stake
00:13:10.49\00:13:13.42
here?
00:13:13.42\00:13:14.62
When I go back to Genesis 3,
back to the Garden, we have an
00:13:14.62\00:13:19.33
example of what happens
when human beings try to seize
00:13:19.33\00:13:24.20
God's glory for
themselves, right?
00:13:24.20\00:13:26.90
And what happens is exactly
that debasement of humanity.
00:13:26.90\00:13:31.17
So, something that seems
that exalting God and debasing
00:13:31.17\00:13:35.84
humanity is actually
the exact opposite, right.
00:13:35.84\00:13:39.81
When God is not
exalted, humanity is debased.
00:13:39.81\00:13:46.45
That doesn't make any
sense, that's completely
00:13:46.45\00:13:48.59
counterintuitive.
00:13:48.59\00:13:50.46
If God is not exalted and
we, in the dust, we are actually
00:13:50.46\00:13:57.90
debased.
00:13:57.90\00:13:59.27
It's only when God is exalted
that we, too, and so, there's
00:13:59.27\00:14:03.67
an author, that's right,
an author put it this way, he
00:14:03.67\00:14:07.31
said when we seize what
properly belongs to God,
00:14:07.31\00:14:12.78
we lose what
properly belongs to us.
00:14:12.78\00:14:15.68
And that's the story
of the fall of humanity.
00:14:15.68\00:14:20.06
So, we lost, the human race
lost, Adam and Eve lost what
00:14:20.06\00:14:23.99
properly belonged in
their jurisdiction to have a
00:14:23.99\00:14:27.86
fulfilling, satisfying and
joyful life, they lost that by
00:14:27.86\00:14:31.63
trying to...
00:14:31.63\00:14:33.10
>>DAVID: Seize what
was not rightfully theirs.
00:14:33.10\00:14:34.87
>>JEFFERY: What was
God's to begin with.
00:14:34.87\00:14:36.27
>>DAVID: I love, you
know, you're using the metaphor
00:14:36.27\00:14:37.97
there, which is the
appropriate metaphor that when
00:14:37.97\00:14:39.94
God is exalted, it lays the
glory of man in the dust and
00:14:39.94\00:14:45.08
the thought just occurred
to me there, because you kept
00:14:45.08\00:14:46.75
talking about Genesis 3,
Genesis 1 and 2, we are made
00:14:46.75\00:14:49.42
for, isn't that hot?
00:14:49.42\00:14:52.82
So, you have this idea
that what are we without God?
00:14:52.82\00:14:56.96
>>JAMES: Oh, come on, keep
going, keep going, keep going.
00:14:56.96\00:14:58.93
Keep going.
00:14:58.93\00:15:00.20
>>DAVID: So, if we try to live
our life in such a way to be
00:15:00.20\00:15:03.80
like functional atheists
where we're taking for ourselves
00:15:03.80\00:15:06.07
what God has given
to us, we're just dirt.
00:15:06.07\00:15:09.64
James, go, go,
he's gonna explode.
00:15:09.64\00:15:13.41
>>JAMES: So, when we are laid
in the dust, then God is going
00:15:13.41\00:15:16.98
to do for us what
he originally did.
00:15:16.98\00:15:19.01
He's going to
recreate us from the dust.
00:15:19.01\00:15:22.15
When we are laid in the dust,
that's when God can actually
00:15:22.15\00:15:26.02
do what he originally
intended to do with us.
00:15:26.02\00:15:28.46
>>DAVID: I love what Jeffrey
says here how that ideas is
00:15:28.46\00:15:31.89
counterintuitive, because
many would hear that, let's be
00:15:31.89\00:15:34.00
honest, if somebody's
just tuned into this program,
00:15:34.00\00:15:37.40
they're not a believer and
they're saying, how, how do
00:15:37.40\00:15:40.57
you see dignity in suggesting
that mankind should be in the
00:15:40.57\00:15:44.67
dust?
00:15:44.67\00:15:45.87
Right, that's a fair question
from an outsider looking in.
00:15:45.87\00:15:47.98
Like, no, humans possess
dignity, etcetera, etcetera,
00:15:47.98\00:15:50.11
but the truth of the matter
is, is that in a universe,
00:15:50.11\00:15:52.85
just imagine momentarily
here that there is no God, what
00:15:52.85\00:15:56.32
dignity do humans possess more
than a mushroom or more than
00:15:56.32\00:16:00.86
a, you know, than a
thundercloud, more than a
00:16:00.86\00:16:03.09
field of grass?
00:16:03.09\00:16:06.36
The answer would be what?
00:16:06.36\00:16:07.60
These are all just atoms
sort of arranged in a different
00:16:07.60\00:16:09.36
configurations, the dignity
that we have is a dignity that
00:16:09.36\00:16:12.63
is conferred on us by
being image bearers of God.
00:16:12.63\00:16:17.54
>>JEFFERY: It's
derivative of God's own glory.
00:16:17.54\00:16:19.94
>>DAVID: Which is fascinating
because when you read the Old
00:16:19.94\00:16:22.34
Testament, you find that
God is regularly and sometimes
00:16:22.34\00:16:27.65
vehemently, regularly,
vehemently, denouncing
00:16:27.65\00:16:30.65
idolatry.
00:16:30.65\00:16:31.65
He's like, hey,
no idols, no idols.
00:16:31.65\00:16:35.52
I don't want you making idols,
I don't want you bowing down
00:16:35.52\00:16:37.69
to idols, and you hear that
and you think, well, this is
00:16:37.69\00:16:39.69
kind of, you know, why?
00:16:39.69\00:16:41.53
What's the problem?
00:16:41.53\00:16:42.66
And here's the problem,
the problem is on two levels,
00:16:42.66\00:16:45.43
number one, when we make
an idol, a god is an idol,
00:16:45.43\00:16:49.37
whatever, God says, I'm not
that stone, I'm not that wood,
00:16:49.37\00:16:53.31
I'm not that metal, I'm
not that image because I have
00:16:53.31\00:16:57.18
already imaged myself on earth.
00:16:57.18\00:16:59.58
>>TY: David, check this out,
what you just said put a light
00:16:59.58\00:17:04.25
on in my head combined
with what Jeffrey said and what
00:17:04.25\00:17:09.66
James said.
00:17:09.66\00:17:10.83
Okay, here it is, God says,
have no idols, only worship
00:17:10.83\00:17:16.20
me.
00:17:16.20\00:17:17.67
Now, that can sound ego centric.
00:17:17.67\00:17:19.83
That can sound like God is
the cosmic narcissist, okay, I
00:17:19.83\00:17:23.07
want you to stand still for
eternity and tell me how great
00:17:23.07\00:17:25.61
I am.
00:17:25.61\00:17:27.78
Okay, but, when you just said
what you said and it built on
00:17:27.78\00:17:31.85
all of this said, well, why
does God say only me and not
00:17:31.85\00:17:35.68
these idols?
00:17:35.68\00:17:36.92
Well, there's a verse, it
actually occurs, I know two
00:17:36.92\00:17:38.99
times in the bible, I have
no idea where they are, they're
00:17:38.99\00:17:41.32
just in my mind, but they're
quote marks, these verses
00:17:41.32\00:17:43.93
exist in scripture, don't
have idols because those who
00:17:43.93\00:17:47.86
worship them
will become like them.
00:17:47.86\00:17:50.47
So, God's jealousy regarding
his glory is an other-centered
00:17:50.47\00:17:57.91
jealousy.
00:17:57.91\00:17:58.94
He's saying, listen, I
don't want you worshipping
00:17:58.94\00:18:03.31
malicious, ugly, capricious,
coercive, mean spirited idols
00:18:03.31\00:18:11.55
or figments of human
imagination of what God is
00:18:11.55\00:18:14.99
really like, I want you
to worship me just as I am
00:18:14.99\00:18:18.66
because I'm love.
00:18:18.66\00:18:21.03
I'm a God of love,
yeah, it's best for you.
00:18:21.03\00:18:23.10
Because if you worship those
idols, those coercive, ugly
00:18:23.10\00:18:25.47
idols, you're gonna become
coercive and ugly, but if you
00:18:25.47\00:18:27.97
worship me, you will begin
to reflect my love, so it's in
00:18:27.97\00:18:33.38
your best interest, it's in
your best interest to worship
00:18:33.38\00:18:37.68
the one and only true God
because the one and only true
00:18:37.68\00:18:40.62
God is a God of love.
00:18:40.62\00:18:43.35
You'll become
like what you worship.
00:18:43.35\00:18:45.29
>>DAVID: I love it.
00:18:45.29\00:18:47.36
By beholding we are changed
and I love this idea, too,
00:18:47.36\00:18:50.53
that idolatry is not only
demeaning to God, that God is
00:18:50.53\00:18:53.50
not like those, you know,
those descriptions that you
00:18:53.50\00:18:56.60
gave there, but idolatry
is also demeaning to humanity.
00:18:56.60\00:19:00.97
No, you're made
in the image of God.
00:19:00.97\00:19:04.27
You're gonna set up some
stone, some piece of wood and
00:19:04.27\00:19:08.08
bow down to something
you made that can't breathe?
00:19:08.08\00:19:10.48
You know, you have that in the
Old Testament there where the
00:19:10.48\00:19:12.48
ark was put in the
temple of Dagon, it falls over.
00:19:12.48\00:19:14.85
I've just always chuckled at
this, so then, the Philistines
00:19:14.85\00:19:18.05
come in and lift Dagon up.
00:19:18.05\00:19:21.16
I mean, the idol can't
even lift itself back up.
00:19:21.16\00:19:24.26
So, idolatry is simultaneously
degrading to God and to human
00:19:24.26\00:19:29.03
beings.
00:19:29.03\00:19:30.20
>>JEFFERY: That text, you're
saying, it's all about when
00:19:30.20\00:19:32.03
you know me, right, only me,
then you will reflect who I am
00:19:32.03\00:19:36.60
in love.
00:19:36.60\00:19:37.67
That goes with what Paul
is actually quoting from in
00:19:37.67\00:19:40.54
Corinthians, he's
quoting actually Jeremiah 9 and
00:19:40.54\00:19:44.01
quickly here, it says, thus
says the Lord, verse 23, let
00:19:44.01\00:19:47.85
not the wise man glory in his
wisdom, let not the mighty man
00:19:47.85\00:19:50.99
glory in his might.
00:19:50.99\00:19:52.49
Nor let the rich man glory
in his riches, but let him who
00:19:52.49\00:19:55.86
glories glory in this, that
he understands and knows me.
00:19:55.86\00:20:03.80
That I am the Lord
exercising loving kindness.
00:20:03.80\00:20:08.30
So, that text basically
says what you were saying, the
00:20:08.30\00:20:11.91
reason why I am demanding,
you know, worship only of me and
00:20:11.91\00:20:17.25
not of these idols is because
knowing me will allow you then
00:20:17.25\00:20:23.69
to reflect.
00:20:23.69\00:20:24.85
>>TY: What a realization,
what a realization, God is not,
00:20:24.85\00:20:28.52
he's not selfish, he's
not a narcissist, he's not an
00:20:28.52\00:20:31.19
egomaniac, he's saying
give your heart to me and you'll
00:20:31.19\00:20:35.13
become beautiful.
00:20:35.13\00:20:37.30
I want you to be connected
with me because it's in your
00:20:37.30\00:20:41.20
best interest.
00:20:41.20\00:20:42.37
We have to take a break on
that note, but this discussion
00:20:42.37\00:20:44.77
is off to a really good start.
00:20:44.77\00:20:47.18
is off to a really good start.
00:20:47.18\00:20:47.44
[Music]
00:20:47.44\00:20:55.82
>>Hi, I'm Ty Gibson,
welcome to digma.com.
00:20:55.82\00:20:59.45
I am so excited about this
website because you're about
00:20:59.45\00:21:02.32
to discover a powerful new
way to share life transforming
00:21:02.32\00:21:06.49
messages and videos with your
family, friends, and anybody
00:21:06.49\00:21:10.23
else on the planet who
has access to a computer.
00:21:10.23\00:21:13.44
Digma is a Greek word.
00:21:13.44\00:21:16.04
It basically means, to show
or to reveal something by means
00:21:16.04\00:21:19.87
of a pattern or an
example of some kind.
00:21:19.87\00:21:22.44
It's the second half of the
word paradigma, from which we
00:21:22.44\00:21:26.08
get the English word
paradigm, as in paradigm shift.
00:21:26.08\00:21:30.72
And so, what you're going to
find at digma.com is a growing
00:21:30.72\00:21:33.86
library of short videos
and transcripts dealing with
00:21:33.86\00:21:37.29
paradigms and
fundamental questions.
00:21:37.29\00:21:40.33
What's the meaning of life?
00:21:40.33\00:21:42.40
What is our origin and
destiny as human beings?
00:21:42.40\00:21:46.30
What happens when we die?
00:21:46.30\00:21:48.74
Does God exist or are we
alone in this vast universe?
00:21:48.74\00:21:52.94
Why is there so much evil
and suffering in our world?
00:21:52.94\00:21:57.18
An estimated 70% of Americans
have a computer right in their
00:21:57.18\00:22:01.95
home and stay in touch with
family and friends by email,
00:22:01.95\00:22:06.15
and more than 400 million
people are active on Facebook,
00:22:06.15\00:22:10.86
and 5 million new users
are signing up every week.
00:22:10.86\00:22:15.46
We are literally in the midst
of a communications revolution
00:22:15.46\00:22:20.07
of massive proportion.
00:22:20.07\00:22:22.20
This is granting the
gospel direct and easy access to
00:22:22.20\00:22:26.98
millions upon millions of
homes and hearts, and that's
00:22:26.98\00:22:31.61
what digma.com is all about.
00:22:31.61\00:22:34.92
It's a tool for leading
our family and friends on an
00:22:34.92\00:22:38.45
exciting paradigm shift by
revealing the truth of God's
00:22:38.45\00:22:42.79
creative power and his
incredibly beautiful character
00:22:42.79\00:22:47.10
in contrast to our world's
popular misconceptions about
00:22:47.10\00:22:52.40
who God is.
00:22:52.40\00:22:54.50
who God is.
00:22:54.50\00:22:55.84
[Music]
00:23:05.25\00:23:09.62
>>TY: Something Jeffrey
said in the previous segment
00:23:09.62\00:23:13.69
reminded me of a story
that I once heard about a boy, a
00:23:13.69\00:23:19.33
teenage boy who, in a fit
of rage and anger pulled out a
00:23:19.33\00:23:26.13
gun and murdered his father.
00:23:26.13\00:23:30.51
Later on, the police officers
who had apprehended him,
00:23:30.51\00:23:35.84
arrested him, and put him in
a cell reported that they heard
00:23:35.84\00:23:40.55
this boy in his cell at
night, whimpering and crying and
00:23:40.55\00:23:46.45
weeping, and saying, I want
my father, I want my father.
00:23:46.45\00:23:51.96
Daddy, where are you?
00:23:51.96\00:23:52.99
I want my father.
00:23:52.99\00:23:54.46
I mean, think about this,
our world and culture is in the
00:23:54.46\00:24:00.64
process of negating God, of
killing off all notion of the
00:24:00.64\00:24:07.38
existence of God and in doing
that, we're left fatherless,
00:24:07.38\00:24:11.65
we're left with a void in
our hearts that is imposing upon
00:24:11.65\00:24:17.95
humanity a level of sorrow and
want and need and desire that
00:24:17.95\00:24:22.92
is just unimaginable.
00:24:22.92\00:24:25.13
There is this massive void.
00:24:25.13\00:24:27.76
When God says to us, hey, I
want you to know me, I want to
00:24:27.76\00:24:33.47
be your Father, I want you
to be in a relationship with me
00:24:33.47\00:24:38.44
that puts me in my
proper place in relation to you.
00:24:38.44\00:24:43.04
God isn't saying in that,
I want you to stroke my ego,
00:24:43.04\00:24:50.72
he's saying, I want you
to understand who you are in
00:24:50.72\00:24:54.29
relation to me in order to
exalt you and to give you the
00:24:54.29\00:24:58.29
dignity and the place in the
universe that I have intended
00:24:58.29\00:25:03.03
for you.
00:25:03.03\00:25:04.03
Isn't that...?
00:25:04.03\00:25:05.23
>>JEFFERY: That's brilliant,
and I think it goes perfectly
00:25:05.23\00:25:09.04
with, if we were to set
this topic in its historical
00:25:09.04\00:25:14.61
context in the reformation,
going back to that point,
00:25:14.61\00:25:18.21
'cause we're looking at
the subject and looking at
00:25:18.21\00:25:22.18
scripture, but how did the
reformers arrive at this sola
00:25:22.18\00:25:26.69
deo gloria, how did
they stumble on hat truth?
00:25:26.69\00:25:29.76
And they formulated a
statement of faith called the
00:25:29.76\00:25:34.83
Westminster confession,
and from that, they made the
00:25:34.83\00:25:37.73
Westminster smaller catechism,
these little booklets, and
00:25:37.73\00:25:43.54
they expressed their
Protestant faith and they
00:25:43.54\00:25:45.84
mentioned glory and it
goes exactly with what you just
00:25:45.84\00:25:47.98
said, and I just wanna
read the first of 107 points in
00:25:47.98\00:25:54.48
this document.
00:25:54.48\00:25:55.68
Number one, this is the first
one and it's the most famous
00:25:55.68\00:25:58.25
one, and it says this,
question, what is the chief
00:25:58.25\00:26:02.26
end of man?
00:26:02.26\00:26:04.06
What is the goal, the
whole point of human existence?
00:26:04.06\00:26:07.13
Answer, man's chief end is
to glorify God and to enjoy him
00:26:07.13\00:26:14.27
forever.
00:26:14.27\00:26:15.90
Okay, and to me, I've actually
been asked before, what's the
00:26:15.90\00:26:20.58
purpose of human life?
00:26:20.58\00:26:22.01
That seems like a simple
question, but that's a loaded
00:26:22.01\00:26:26.88
question, what's the
purpose of human life?
00:26:26.88\00:26:29.85
How do you answer that question?
00:26:29.85\00:26:31.29
And I haven't arrived at
a better on sentence summary
00:26:31.29\00:26:35.06
than...
00:26:35.06\00:26:36.06
>>TY: And this is
from the Westminster...
00:26:36.06\00:26:37.89
>>JEFFERY: Smaller
catechism, 1648, right?
00:26:37.89\00:26:42.16
The purpose of life is to
glorify God and to enjoy him
00:26:42.16\00:26:45.47
forever, and the reason
I think this has been life
00:26:45.47\00:26:48.27
changing for me and it's
because those two clauses are
00:26:48.27\00:26:52.64
connected, they're
inseparable, glorifying God is
00:26:52.64\00:26:56.81
synonymous to enjoying him.
00:26:56.81\00:27:00.15
So, if we process that, that's
huge because I think that, I
00:27:00.15\00:27:05.19
think you said, or somebody
said, that sounds egotistical
00:27:05.19\00:27:08.52
like, I get all the glory,
but if those two things are
00:27:08.52\00:27:12.16
connected, glorifying God
is connected to enjoying him,
00:27:12.16\00:27:15.56
that means you can't have
one without the other, and that
00:27:15.56\00:27:19.20
means even if God were
to thunder from heaven and
00:27:19.20\00:27:22.74
manifest himself in some, I
dunno, some pretty impressive
00:27:22.74\00:27:27.88
stuff, some things that we
would call glory, God's glory.
00:27:27.88\00:27:33.08
To think, if this is true,
that God would actually not be
00:27:33.08\00:27:38.25
glorified unless the human
agent finds enjoyment in what
00:27:38.25\00:27:43.19
God is revealing, so in
other words, the glory of God is
00:27:43.19\00:27:46.66
contingent to how I respond to
his relation of his own glory.
00:27:46.66\00:27:50.50
So, God is basically chaining
himself, he's handcuffing
00:27:50.50\00:27:55.84
himself, in a sense, of
course, and he's handcuffing
00:27:55.84\00:27:59.91
his glory that it's contingent
on the believer and finding
00:27:59.91\00:28:04.68
pleasure in it.
00:28:04.68\00:28:05.91
And if that's
true, it's not selfish.
00:28:05.91\00:28:08.82
>>TY: You know what
else it implies, Jeffrey?
00:28:08.82\00:28:12.12
It implies that there
is, intrinsically, in God,
00:28:12.12\00:28:15.56
enjoyment to be had.
00:28:15.56\00:28:17.83
Do you see that?
00:28:17.83\00:28:18.99
So, we have scriptures like
Psalms 16:11, if I'm what is
00:28:18.99\00:28:24.07
So, we have scriptures like
Psalms 16:11, if I'm what is
00:28:24.07\00:28:25.80
it?
00:28:26.63\00:28:27.60
At his right hand are
pleasures forevermore.
00:28:27.60\00:28:29.70
The word pleasure is loaded.
00:28:29.70\00:28:32.81
Because pleasure has gone
way off the rails with human
00:28:32.81\00:28:37.21
beings.
00:28:37.21\00:28:38.31
What we equate as pleasure
is a kind of pleasure that
00:28:38.31\00:28:45.35
creates what we
call diminishing returns.
00:28:45.35\00:28:48.29
Our world is engaged in
pleasure seeking, a kind of
00:28:48.29\00:28:53.76
pleasure that actually can't
deliver on what it promises.
00:28:53.76\00:28:58.57
Do you hear what I'm saying?
00:28:58.57\00:29:00.17
Can't deliver on
what it's promising.
00:29:00.17\00:29:02.64
For example, lust
promises what it can't deliver.
00:29:02.64\00:29:07.81
Lust promises love.
00:29:07.81\00:29:09.08
Lust cannot
deliver on that promise.
00:29:09.08\00:29:15.58
Lust, or let me just flip
it a little bit here, sex, sex,
00:29:15.58\00:29:23.36
which our culture is obsessed
with, sex foreshadows in the
00:29:23.36\00:29:29.56
divine plan or is a window
into something called love,
00:29:29.56\00:29:34.04
but if you separate sex from
love, by which I mean, if you
00:29:34.04\00:29:37.34
separate sex from commitment
and loyalty and devotion and
00:29:37.34\00:29:41.24
faithfulness, sex is reduced
to the momentary release of
00:29:41.24\00:29:47.88
physical urges that doesn't
equate to anything that's
00:29:47.88\00:29:51.99
sustainable.
00:29:51.99\00:29:52.99
>>JAMES: It's like fast food.
00:29:52.99\00:29:54.02
You need more and more
and more and more and more,
00:29:54.02\00:29:56.93
because it
doesn't satisfy long term.
00:29:56.93\00:29:58.93
>>TY: But you get
full for a short time.
00:29:58.93\00:30:00.93
>>JAMES:
Satiated for a full time.
00:30:00.93\00:30:02.90
>>DAVID: The way that I've
thought about this, and I love
00:30:02.90\00:30:04.90
what you're saying there,
Ty, is that the beauty of sex is
00:30:04.90\00:30:06.90
that it points to
something beyond itself.
00:30:06.90\00:30:08.90
But if sex becomes just
the thing, it would be like a
00:30:08.90\00:30:12.27
sign, say there's a sign here
that says the Taj Mahal this
00:30:12.27\00:30:17.18
way, right, and the Taj
Mahal is this big, beautiful,
00:30:17.18\00:30:19.45
amazing ediphus, right,
which is awesome, I've not been
00:30:19.45\00:30:22.58
there yet, have
any of you been there?
00:30:22.58\00:30:24.59
I've not been there yet, but
it would be like going to the
00:30:24.59\00:30:26.59
sign, being like,
hey, I went to the sign.
00:30:26.59\00:30:30.13
But did you go to the Taj Mahal?
00:30:30.13\00:30:32.13
I've been to the sign.
00:30:32.13\00:30:33.13
[Laughter]
00:30:33.13\00:30:34.13
It's just a shadow,
it's a marker for something.
00:30:34.13\00:30:38.07
>>JAMES: I've seen the picture.
00:30:38.07\00:30:39.27
>>TY: That's what I was gonna
say, oftentimes, people, we
00:30:39.27\00:30:44.54
don't even get to the sign,
we just saw it on Google, that's
00:30:44.54\00:30:48.11
how far off lust is from love.
00:30:48.11\00:30:50.65
>>JAMES: I really like what
you're saying, Ty, it reminds
00:30:50.65\00:30:52.78
me of the verse in Hebrews
11 where it says, and it's
00:30:52.78\00:30:56.35
talking about Moses, Pharaoh
and the fact that he could
00:30:56.35\00:30:59.19
have really had a
lot of earthly power and
00:30:59.19\00:31:02.52
satisfaction, whatever,
and it says that Moses, when he
00:31:02.52\00:31:06.56
became of years, Hebrews
11:24, refused to be called
00:31:06.56\00:31:10.07
the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
choosing rather to suffer
00:31:10.07\00:31:13.10
affliction with the
people of God than to enjoy the
00:31:13.10\00:31:15.70
pleasures of sin for a season.
00:31:15.70\00:31:18.71
It's seasonal.
00:31:18.71\00:31:19.67
See, in Psalms 16:11,
pleasure is forevermore.
00:31:19.67\00:31:26.18
It's forever.
00:31:26.18\00:31:28.18
God never intended that
pleasure would be seasonal.
00:31:28.18\00:31:31.05
So, what's happened is, what's
happened is we've gone in and
00:31:31.05\00:31:34.26
we've taken out of
pleasure the thing that makes it
00:31:34.26\00:31:37.96
eternal.
00:31:37.96\00:31:38.96
We have, that's
why it's fast food.
00:31:38.96\00:31:40.96
>>TY: You have to say
that again, 'cause I need that.
00:31:40.96\00:31:43.03
>>DAVID: We've taken out of
pleasure the thing that makes
00:31:43.03\00:31:45.73
it eternal, which is God.
00:31:45.73\00:31:47.07
>>JAMES: And so, it becomes
seasonal, and so, that's why
00:31:47.07\00:31:49.30
you need more and more and more.
00:31:49.30\00:31:51.31
Because the eternal part, the
eternal experience of pleasure
00:31:51.31\00:31:53.94
is satisfying, it satisfies.
00:31:53.94\00:31:56.64
>>DAVID: As a father of
two teenage boys, one of the
00:31:56.64\00:32:00.92
things that I've really tried
to instill in them, because
00:32:00.92\00:32:03.69
we're living, as you said,
in a sex-saturated, we're living
00:32:03.69\00:32:06.49
in the most sensual culture
that has ever existed in the
00:32:06.49\00:32:08.92
history of the
human, you know, enterprise.
00:32:08.92\00:32:10.93
We've never been here
where we are right now.
00:32:10.93\00:32:13.90
We've leveraged technology to,
that's right, it's ubiquitous.
00:32:13.90\00:32:16.93
So, one of the things that I
said to my boys is rather than
00:32:16.93\00:32:21.14
having them, rather than
turning them off of sex and
00:32:21.14\00:32:24.84
saying, hey, we don't.
00:32:24.84\00:32:25.84
>>JEFFERY: It's bad.
00:32:25.84\00:32:27.24
>>DAVID: Yeah, from a very
young age, we have spoken to
00:32:27.24\00:32:29.44
our two boys, Violet and I,
about sex and we have always
00:32:29.44\00:32:32.58
spoken about it in super
positive, it's awesome, you're
00:32:32.58\00:32:36.82
gonna love it, it's amazing,
when you find that person to
00:32:36.82\00:32:39.19
whom you give yourself, and
the thing that I've emphasized
00:32:39.19\00:32:41.36
with them again and again
is not only that sex is awesome
00:32:41.36\00:32:43.36
and amazing and a gift from
God, but that sex is not just
00:32:43.36\00:32:46.53
something that takes
place between two bodies in
00:32:46.53\00:32:49.20
proximity, but two
human beings in love.
00:32:49.20\00:32:54.80
Right, that's the
lie of lust, isn't it?
00:32:54.80\00:32:57.14
That sex finds its fulfillment
in two bodies that are
00:32:57.14\00:32:59.61
proximate.
00:32:59.61\00:33:00.88
But that's not the case, it's
two people, two human beings
00:33:00.88\00:33:03.98
with dreams and hopes and
desires and loves and fears
00:33:03.98\00:33:08.32
that are yielding themselves
in selflessness to the other.
00:33:08.32\00:33:12.35
You divorce that, and you're
just standing in front of the
00:33:12.35\00:33:14.36
sign that says Taj Mahal,
and let's be honest, the sign,
00:33:14.36\00:33:16.93
over time, will get, in fact,
just the other day, we were in
00:33:16.93\00:33:20.56
a grocery store, we
were checking out, this is in
00:33:20.56\00:33:23.77
Australia, just before we came
here and I was with Landon, my
00:33:23.77\00:33:27.60
oldest, 16, and there was a
Cosmopolitan magazine or Vanity
00:33:27.60\00:33:31.27
Fair, one of those magazines
there, and you know, these are
00:33:31.27\00:33:33.27
forever advertising some
sexual breakthrough and this
00:33:33.27\00:33:36.61
one said something like,
you know, 15 sexual positions
00:33:36.61\00:33:40.08
you've never, and I said,
Landon, let me just explain
00:33:40.08\00:33:42.22
something to you.
00:33:42.22\00:33:43.59
The human body has been
with the human body is from the
00:33:43.59\00:33:46.12
beginning, there's only so
many permutations here, right,
00:33:46.12\00:33:49.49
this is a lie.
00:33:49.49\00:33:51.13
What they're doing is,
they are conceding that at some
00:33:51.13\00:33:53.66
level, their sexual experience
is deeply unsatisfying.
00:33:53.66\00:33:57.53
So, they're trying to
invent some new novel, no.
00:33:57.53\00:34:00.84
There's no new, there's no
breakthrough position, there's
00:34:00.84\00:34:03.24
no, it's about giving yourself
not just to a body, but to a
00:34:03.24\00:34:06.68
human.
00:34:06.68\00:34:07.84
And I'm saying this to my
16 year old son, and he's like,
00:34:07.84\00:34:09.71
yeah, dad, I get it dad.
00:34:09.71\00:34:12.31
This idea of joy, God clearly
created, and you just pulled
00:34:12.31\00:34:16.92
this one out.
00:34:16.92\00:34:18.09
There's lots of joys we
could talk about, we could talk
00:34:18.09\00:34:19.79
about the joy of music,
the joy of fellowship, there's
00:34:19.79\00:34:21.79
many joys, but this is one
in which the thing has been
00:34:21.79\00:34:25.83
extracted from its context
and people are finding it,
00:34:25.83\00:34:30.17
diminishingly satisfying.
00:34:30.17\00:34:32.00
Surprise, surprise.
00:34:32.00\00:34:33.34
>>JEFFERY: Isn't it bizarre
that Adam and Eve were placed
00:34:33.34\00:34:36.00
in the Garden of Eden, we've
talked about this, and Eden is
00:34:36.00\00:34:38.17
pleasure, the Garden of
Pleasure and back to our
00:34:38.17\00:34:41.54
earlier point, when we try to
seize what properly belongs to
00:34:41.54\00:34:45.71
God, we lose what
properly belongs to ourselves.
00:34:45.71\00:34:47.85
So, here they are, reaching
outside of the safe boundaries
00:34:47.85\00:34:52.05
that is human function,
how humans were intended to
00:34:52.05\00:34:56.29
function.
00:34:56.29\00:34:57.79
And they're in the
Garden of Pleasure.
00:34:57.79\00:35:00.46
That just tells us at the gate
how God feels about pleasure
00:35:00.46\00:35:04.87
and how integral pleasure was
to be in the human experience.
00:35:04.87\00:35:09.90
But when we say, and when
we say that in the context of
00:35:09.90\00:35:15.78
contemporary life, when I say
pleasure should be integral to
00:35:15.78\00:35:17.85
your life, it sounds crazy.
00:35:17.85\00:35:21.82
Yet it's biblical.
00:35:21.82\00:35:24.45
>>TY: There is a sanctified
hedonism, according to Jeffrey
00:35:24.45\00:35:27.46
Rosario, it was over my head,
I don't know what you meant by
00:35:27.46\00:35:31.79
that.
00:35:31.79\00:35:32.96
There is something called
pleasure that God invented and
00:35:32.96\00:35:36.80
intended for human beings
to experience and that's what
00:35:36.80\00:35:40.97
this thing is telling us here.
00:35:40.97\00:35:42.97
What is the chief end of man?
00:35:42.97\00:35:44.34
>>DAVID: To know God
and enjoy him forever.
00:35:44.34\00:35:47.71
>>TY: So, enjoyment is
intrinsic to knowing God.
00:35:47.71\00:35:51.95
God's not anti-pleasure,
he's pro-pleasure and anti-pain.
00:35:51.95\00:35:55.75
>>JEFFERY: Well, more than
that, it consists not to know
00:35:55.75\00:35:57.99
him, to glorify him.
00:35:57.99\00:35:59.32
Pleasure is
intrinsic in glorifying God.
00:35:59.32\00:36:02.56
When's the last time
we thought in those terms?
00:36:02.56\00:36:05.76
We don't think in those terms.
00:36:05.76\00:36:06.93
>>DAVID: And the Christian
church has often, not always,
00:36:06.93\00:36:10.33
but often, even the modern
church, sort of arrayed itself
00:36:10.33\00:36:15.00
over and against pleasure,
like pleasure is something to
00:36:15.00\00:36:17.87
be avoided, pleasure, etcetera.
00:36:17.87\00:36:19.87
And we often talk about loving
God, appreciating God, fearing
00:36:19.87\00:36:25.51
God, reverencing God, there's
a lot of different sort of
00:36:25.51\00:36:29.05
words that we use to identify
the appropriate posture that
00:36:29.05\00:36:32.42
we have in
relationship to the almighty.
00:36:32.42\00:36:34.42
All of those are true, but
something we don't hard enough
00:36:34.42\00:36:38.23
of is, so we don't need less
of something, we need more of
00:36:38.23\00:36:41.53
something, is I
just enjoy Yahweh.
00:36:41.53\00:36:45.97
[Laughter]
00:36:45.97\00:36:47.94
He brings so much joy, and
you think about the fruit of the
00:36:47.94\00:36:51.31
spirit, love, we
got that one, joy.
00:36:51.31\00:36:56.48
God is to be enjoyed, but
the portrait, the picture, that
00:36:56.48\00:36:59.61
many have of God is a
God who is unenjoyable.
00:36:59.61\00:37:03.99
>>TY: Unenjoyable God, and
yet, God is the source of all
00:37:03.99\00:37:07.42
true joy.
00:37:07.42\00:37:09.19
It's just.
00:37:09.19\00:37:10.43
>>DAVID: Who was the
early, was it Erenaius, somebody
00:37:10.43\00:37:13.76
early on said the glory
of God is man fully alive.
00:37:13.76\00:37:17.07
Is that, we can look that up,
but I think it's Aranius, but
00:37:17.07\00:37:23.10
you know, Sarah Groves has
that song, she's got that song
00:37:23.10\00:37:25.87
built on that, it's a
beautiful song, but the glory
00:37:25.87\00:37:28.24
of God is man fully alive.
00:37:28.24\00:37:32.45
I have come.
00:37:32.45\00:37:33.75
>>TY: The glory of God is
man fully alive, I'm gonna find
00:37:33.75\00:37:37.42
out who said that because I
love it and I wanna quote it
00:37:37.42\00:37:39.69
for the rest of my life.
00:37:39.69\00:37:42.12
for the rest of my life.
00:37:42.12\00:37:43.46
>>JAMES: Your phone is,
see, I'm doing the same thing
00:37:43.46\00:37:46.43
because, yeah, this is,
this conversation is really
00:37:46.43\00:37:50.27
sparking a lot of
issues for me, I was raised...
00:37:50.27\00:37:56.64
>>TY: Got it.
00:37:56.64\00:37:57.84
>>DAVID: Who was it?
00:37:57.84\00:37:58.94
>>TY: You are exactly
right, one of the early
00:37:58.94\00:38:02.34
post-apostolic fathers of
Christianity, go ahead, James.
00:38:02.34\00:38:07.02
>>JAMES: I was raised
in a church that was quite
00:38:07.02\00:38:08.72
orthodox, quite formal, and my
mom tells me that when she was
00:38:08.72\00:38:13.49
raised, so we're talking
now '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, in
00:38:13.49\00:38:19.26
her, and European background
and American, but in her
00:38:19.26\00:38:23.40
church culture, 'cause
you know, culture changed.
00:38:23.40\00:38:29.74
Same church, but culture
changes that sex and those
00:38:29.74\00:38:34.78
kinds of , you know, that
kind of activity was considered
00:38:34.78\00:38:41.68
something that was dirty,
something that was shameful,
00:38:41.68\00:38:46.35
something that was, yeah,
gotta have kids, but that's
00:38:46.35\00:38:50.36
about it.
00:38:50.36\00:38:51.63
And when she became
enlightened, because she went
00:38:51.63\00:38:56.36
through the '60s revolution.
00:38:56.36\00:38:58.80
When I was raised, my mom
had on her wall in her bedroom,
00:38:58.80\00:39:03.07
Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, The
Rolling Stones, you know, all
00:39:03.07\00:39:06.54
of the voices that came
out of that culture, that '60s
00:39:06.54\00:39:11.21
culture, I was raised
listening to all of that
00:39:11.21\00:39:13.82
music, and she was fully
liberated, if you know what
00:39:13.82\00:39:17.09
I'm saying.
00:39:17.09\00:39:18.22
Yeah, so, when you, society
swings to this extreme of
00:39:18.22\00:39:22.52
taking out of its context
what God has made, what God has
00:39:22.52\00:39:26.80
created, the way that I ,
the words that I grabbed from
00:39:26.80\00:39:29.86
David I thought was really
good, when we extract what God
00:39:29.86\00:39:31.53
has made and we take it out
of its original context, we will
00:39:31.53\00:39:36.24
find that it is
diminishing and you said -ly.
00:39:36.24\00:39:39.71
>>DAVID:
Diminishingly satisfying.
00:39:39.71\00:39:41.21
>>JAMES:
Diminishingly satisfying.
00:39:41.21\00:39:42.48
And no surprise.
00:39:42.48\00:39:43.75
Right?
00:39:43.75\00:39:44.48
That's what you said.
00:39:44.48\00:39:45.81
I can't find the word
diminishingly as a correct
00:39:45.81\00:39:47.58
word.
00:39:47.58\00:39:48.38
Okay, and you can do it.
00:39:48.38\00:39:49.55
And I love that, and so
what happens then when we do it,
00:39:49.55\00:39:54.92
culturally, there's finally
gonna be a breaking point, and
00:39:54.92\00:39:58.49
the culture's gonna react to
that and swing the other way,
00:39:58.49\00:40:02.43
and I feel like that's what
we're seeing and it all goes
00:40:02.43\00:40:05.47
back to this idea of
giving God the glory.
00:40:05.47\00:40:08.14
In other words, putting him
so that we in response find our
00:40:08.14\00:40:14.14
place.
00:40:14.14\00:40:15.31
I love it.
00:40:15.31\00:40:16.14
I just think it's beautiful.
00:40:16.14\00:40:17.31
>>TY: We have to take a break,
we're actually two minutes
00:40:17.31\00:40:19.48
over, and David,
just hold, don't forget.
00:40:19.48\00:40:22.45
>>DAVID: I won't forget,
I've got it written down.
00:40:22.45\00:40:24.25
>>TY: Let's take a
break, we'll come right back.
00:40:24.25\00:40:26.12
>>DAVID: I won't forget,
I've got it written down.
00:40:26.12\00:40:26.59
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[Music]
00:41:22.34\00:41:26.38
[Music]
00:41:26.38\00:41:28.38
>>TY: David, you had
something on the tip of your
00:41:28.38\00:41:29.68
tongue.
00:41:29.68\00:41:30.82
>>DAVID: Well, I had three
things that were jumping out
00:41:30.82\00:41:32.45
at me, but the last thing, and
I'll get to all of them here,
00:41:32.45\00:41:34.56
but the last thing was when
James was talking, James, just
00:41:34.56\00:41:37.73
remind me, because I know what
I was gonna say, but how does
00:41:37.73\00:41:39.59
it tie in with your last point?
00:41:39.59\00:41:40.66
We were talking
about the diminishing.
00:41:40.66\00:41:43.00
>>JAMES: That when we extract
what God has made us to be,
00:41:43.00\00:41:46.27
when we take it out of its
original context, we will find
00:41:46.27\00:41:49.47
that it
diminishes our satisfaction.
00:41:49.47\00:41:51.77
>>DAVID: Okay, so the
thing that I was thinking about
00:41:51.77\00:41:54.14
there is that, tying that
in with this idea of wisdom, we
00:41:54.14\00:41:57.75
were in Jeremiah 9, remember,
let not the wise man glory in
00:41:57.75\00:42:01.05
his wisdom, let not the
wise man glory in his wisdom,
00:42:01.05\00:42:03.59
mighty man glory in his might,
rich man glory in his riches,
00:42:03.59\00:42:06.32
okay, you know that you have
the personification of wisdom
00:42:06.32\00:42:09.99
in Proverbs 8, tell me if
you love this, or this thought
00:42:09.99\00:42:12.69
just occurred to me, in
Proverbs chapter 8, you have
00:42:12.69\00:42:14.73
this personification of
wisdom, it's very Messianic,
00:42:14.73\00:42:18.73
you know, I was, daily his
delight rejoicing before him,
00:42:18.73\00:42:22.07
before the mountains were
formed, do we know what we're
00:42:22.07\00:42:24.07
talking about here?
00:42:24.07\00:42:25.17
The whole section of
Proverbs 8 is taking wisdom and
00:42:25.17\00:42:28.28
personifying it and I've
always loved the last verse of
00:42:28.28\00:42:33.28
Proverbs chapter 8.
00:42:33.28\00:42:34.48
Do you remember what it says,
there's this whole wisdom is
00:42:34.48\00:42:37.65
amazing, wisdom is awesome.
00:42:37.65\00:42:38.42
Those who hate me love death.
00:42:38.42\00:42:41.86
So, when we, exactly, when
we embrace the wisdom of God in
00:42:41.86\00:42:49.63
Christ, 'cause Christ, when
we embrace that, we are living
00:42:49.63\00:42:52.63
the life that Christ made for,
I've come that they might have
00:42:52.63\00:42:55.34
life and have
it more abundantly.
00:42:55.34\00:42:56.54
When we reject that, we are,
we talked about this in a past
00:42:56.54\00:43:00.41
session.
00:43:00.41\00:43:01.88
Though we might be
living, we're embracing death.
00:43:01.88\00:43:06.05
When you divorce the
pleasure from the origin of the
00:43:06.05\00:43:11.22
pleasure, you are not alive.
00:43:11.22\00:43:13.52
>>TY: Well, let me read
the text because it says even
00:43:13.52\00:43:15.02
more, it says, for whoever
finds me, wisdom, personified
00:43:15.02\00:43:21.23
wisdom, for whoever finds
me finds life, and obtains,
00:43:21.23\00:43:26.74
obtains favor from the Lord.
00:43:26.74\00:43:31.04
But he who sins against
me, that is, against wisdom,
00:43:31.04\00:43:36.48
wrongs his own soul, all
those who hate me love death.
00:43:36.48\00:43:42.92
>>JEFFERY: So it's to your
own detriment to seek your own
00:43:42.92\00:43:45.69
autonomy.
00:43:45.69\00:43:46.86
>>TY: By the way, guys, I
found those scriptures that I
00:43:46.86\00:43:48.52
couldn't remember, Psalm 115,
verse 8, and 135:18, those who
00:43:48.52\00:43:53.03
worship idols become like them.
00:43:53.03\00:43:55.30
Psalm 115 verse 8
and Psalm 135 verse 18.
00:43:55.30\00:44:00.70
Just 'cause I know somebody
during the break was asking
00:44:00.70\00:44:03.44
for them.
00:44:03.44\00:44:04.34
Yeah.
00:44:04.34\00:44:05.57
So, that's the
problem with idolatry.
00:44:05.57\00:44:07.81
It's not an ego thing
with God, he's not saying, hey,
00:44:07.81\00:44:10.81
don't worship any other gods
or idols because I need you to
00:44:10.81\00:44:15.28
stroke my ego.
00:44:15.28\00:44:16.89
That's not the point.
00:44:16.89\00:44:18.42
The point is don't worship
any other gods or imaginary
00:44:18.42\00:44:22.12
pictures of God that you
might concoct because you're
00:44:22.12\00:44:24.76
impressionable, you're
a creature that reflects
00:44:24.76\00:44:28.40
whatever occupies the highest
place in your estimation.
00:44:28.40\00:44:32.33
God has to occupy the
highest place in our estimation
00:44:32.33\00:44:35.54
because we're gonna
become like whatever it is that
00:44:35.54\00:44:38.54
occupies that place.
00:44:38.54\00:44:39.71
>>JAMES: Let's go one step
further, just to add to that.
00:44:39.71\00:44:42.31
Don't worship idols because
idolatry is the essence of
00:44:42.31\00:44:45.61
self worship, worship me
because I'm the essence of
00:44:45.61\00:44:48.72
others-centered worship.
00:44:48.72\00:44:49.82
I'm the essence, I am the
epitome of others-centered
00:44:49.82\00:44:53.89
thinking, whereas idolatry
is the epitome of glorifying
00:44:53.89\00:44:57.06
self.
00:44:57.06\00:44:58.06
Who made that idol?
00:44:58.06\00:44:59.06
I did.
00:44:59.06\00:45:00.06
Why are you
worshipping that idol?
00:45:00.06\00:45:02.03
Because it's...
00:45:02.03\00:45:03.16
>>JEFFERY: Looking at the
Garden and Adam and Eve, do
00:45:03.16\00:45:05.03
you remember this, he said,
they wanted a corner in the
00:45:05.03\00:45:08.07
universe to mark their own
and to say God, this is our
00:45:08.07\00:45:11.31
business.
00:45:11.31\00:45:12.51
Then, he said, they wanted
so desperately to be nouns that
00:45:12.51\00:45:16.04
they would have
to remain adjectives.
00:45:16.04\00:45:18.05
So, the idea is, why you're
saying the reason idolatry's
00:45:18.05\00:45:23.32
wrong is because it's
really, you're actually not even
00:45:23.32\00:45:26.25
worshipping something else.
00:45:26.25\00:45:27.62
You're just
worshipping yourself.
00:45:27.62\00:45:29.62
>>TY: And CS Lewis, I
don't know if it's in that same
00:45:29.62\00:45:31.63
connection, but he also, at
one point, said this profound
00:45:31.63\00:45:35.46
thing, human beings want
happiness without God and
00:45:35.46\00:45:41.54
alas, there is no such thing.
00:45:41.54\00:45:43.47
It doesn't exist.
00:45:43.47\00:45:45.97
>>DAVID: He actually, in
that same quotation, he says,
00:45:45.97\00:45:49.24
people ask, why can't God just
give us happiness apart from
00:45:49.24\00:45:52.81
himself, that's the question.
00:45:52.81\00:45:54.12
And the answer is that's
not possible, not even for God.
00:45:54.12\00:45:59.42
He is the source of joy.
00:45:59.42\00:46:00.52
To know God and
to enjoy him forever.
00:46:00.52\00:46:03.36
To glorify God, you
know, how is this not...
00:46:03.36\00:46:05.49
>>JAMES: And he is such that
if it were possible, he would
00:46:05.49\00:46:08.10
do it, but it's not.
00:46:08.10\00:46:09.33
>>DAVID: Let me land this, I'm
sorry, James, I didn't mean to
00:46:09.33\00:46:11.17
cut you off there, what
was the thing you just said.
00:46:11.17\00:46:13.17
>>JAMES: I was just saying
that God is so selfless that
00:46:13.17\00:46:16.37
he would do whatever it would
take, but it is not possible.
00:46:16.37\00:46:18.94
>>JEFFERY: He would
if he could but he can't.
00:46:18.94\00:46:20.94
>>JAMES: And that's
what we see at the cross.
00:46:20.94\00:46:22.94
He would do whatever.
00:46:22.94\00:46:24.35
He would take himself.
00:46:24.35\00:46:25.48
If we think that happiness
could exist without God, he
00:46:25.48\00:46:28.12
will take himself out of
the picture and show us that it
00:46:28.12\00:46:30.12
doesn't.
00:46:30.12\00:46:31.12
We're not happy without him.
00:46:31.12\00:46:32.12
We're lost, we're miserable.
00:46:32.12\00:46:33.72
>>DAVID: There's something I
wanna say that I'll come back
00:46:33.72\00:46:35.72
to in a second, but it reminds
me of that illustration that
00:46:35.72\00:46:38.56
you used, Ty, at the beginning
of not this session, but the
00:46:38.56\00:46:40.93
last one where you talked
about the boy who shot his
00:46:40.93\00:46:43.13
father and then was heard
later, you know, crying out
00:46:43.13\00:46:45.93
for his father, we know
socially and psychologically,
00:46:45.93\00:46:49.97
developmentally, that the
absence of a father, what's
00:46:49.97\00:46:54.31
called absenteeism from
fatherhood or whatever, that
00:46:54.31\00:46:58.55
that is just debilitating,
developmentally for children.
00:46:58.55\00:47:01.62
I mean, people can recover
from it, my father left me
00:47:01.62\00:47:03.45
when I was very young.
00:47:03.45\00:47:04.65
Fortunately, when I
became almost a teenager, my mom
00:47:04.65\00:47:07.79
married an amazing man,
Richard Assherick, but there
00:47:07.79\00:47:10.29
was a period in my life
where there was a father void.
00:47:10.29\00:47:13.29
You had that experience,
you've had that, and you've
00:47:13.29\00:47:15.86
had that.
00:47:15.86\00:47:16.90
Whoa.
00:47:16.90\00:47:17.97
>>TY: And I never had
anyone step in, you were very
00:47:17.97\00:47:19.27
fortunate.
00:47:19.27\00:47:20.40
>>DAVID: That's why
I took his last name.
00:47:20.40\00:47:22.60
Strangely enough, that's
another story, but the reason,
00:47:22.60\00:47:24.71
what I was gonna say is is
that that same pathology that
00:47:24.71\00:47:29.88
develops or pathologies
that potentially develop from an
00:47:29.88\00:47:32.48
absentee human father has
its analogue in the absence of a
00:47:32.48\00:47:38.22
heavenly Father.
00:47:38.22\00:47:39.55
I don't know how you guys
feel, but I sometimes, whether
00:47:39.55\00:47:41.29
it's listening to the news or
driving down the highway, this
00:47:41.29\00:47:44.23
sense of sort of depressive
foreboding comes on me in
00:47:44.23\00:47:47.13
strange times.
00:47:47.13\00:47:49.46
And I will get this
sense, I will literally have the
00:47:49.46\00:47:52.23
thought, how are people coping
in the absence of the sense of
00:47:52.23\00:47:58.91
the heavenly Father's love?
00:47:58.91\00:48:01.34
Now, somebody's gonna
hear that and say, you're
00:48:01.34\00:48:04.11
psychologically
weak, you need a crutch.
00:48:04.11\00:48:06.21
I don't know, I think
I'm a reasonably intelligent,
00:48:06.21\00:48:09.98
observant, analytical person.
00:48:09.98\00:48:12.85
I think that people are
medicating, I think they're
00:48:12.85\00:48:15.09
drinking, I think they're, you
know, I'm saying, coping, this
00:48:15.09\00:48:20.80
world, this world that we're
living in right now, what do
00:48:20.80\00:48:22.76
you wanna talk about?
00:48:22.76\00:48:23.77
Environmentalism?
00:48:23.77\00:48:24.77
What, terrorism?
00:48:24.77\00:48:25.83
You wanna talk about
what do you wanna talk about?
00:48:25.83\00:48:27.77
You wanna talk about the
economic disparity between the
00:48:27.77\00:48:29.77
rich and the poor?
00:48:29.77\00:48:30.74
Do you know that the 8
wealthiest people in the
00:48:30.74\00:48:32.77
world, the 8 wealthiest people
in the world have more wealth,
00:48:32.77\00:48:36.71
8, than the poorest 3.6 billion.
00:48:36.71\00:48:42.02
That's half the
earth's population.
00:48:42.02\00:48:44.02
So, this isn't a commentary
on that as such political, I'm
00:48:44.02\00:48:47.16
not making a political
statement here, I'm just
00:48:47.16\00:48:49.16
saying that this world is very
hard to cope with day in, day
00:48:49.16\00:48:53.76
out.
00:48:53.76\00:48:54.96
A good friend of ours, we just
learned, I just learned today
00:48:54.96\00:48:58.53
or last night, has
cancer, a very serious cancer.
00:48:58.53\00:49:02.74
Fortunately, he's a man
that loves Jesus very much.
00:49:02.74\00:49:05.34
How are people coping?
00:49:05.34\00:49:06.84
And the answer is, they're not.
00:49:06.84\00:49:08.74
>>JEFFERY: But you
asked a question, you asked a
00:49:08.74\00:49:11.95
question, you know, how
can they go on without that
00:49:11.95\00:49:16.72
source?
00:49:16.72\00:49:17.92
The thing, though, is, if
you process your own childhood,
00:49:17.92\00:49:19.85
like my father separated from
my mother before I could walk,
00:49:19.85\00:49:24.56
so that was the normal, right?
But the more I interact with
00:49:24.56\00:49:28.26
other friends, I realized,
oh, they have mom and dad at
00:49:28.26\00:49:31.17
home, which, to me, was new.
00:49:31.17\00:49:33.03
I didn't, I couldn't even
process that, but the more I
00:49:33.03\00:49:36.54
got to know people, the more
I realized how my friends hated
00:49:36.54\00:49:39.34
their dads and how many of
their dads were deadbeats and
00:49:39.34\00:49:43.98
I arrived to the conclusion
in my early teens, 13, 14, you
00:49:43.98\00:49:48.82
know what, I'm glad I grew
up without a father, because if
00:49:48.82\00:49:52.49
that's what I would have
had, I'm glad I just had my mom.
00:49:52.49\00:49:58.79
And the analogue, again,
is the same, how do so many
00:49:58.79\00:50:03.37
people, how are
they able to cope?
00:50:03.37\00:50:05.37
It's because they're thinking,
in their own conception, if
00:50:05.37\00:50:08.24
that's what the heavenly
Father is like, it stinks that
00:50:08.24\00:50:12.41
I don't have a dad at home,
it stinks that it's just my mom,
00:50:12.41\00:50:15.38
it stinks that we're on
welfare, it stinks that I
00:50:15.38\00:50:18.68
don't have all of that,
but at least it's not that.
00:50:18.68\00:50:21.75
[Laughter]
00:50:21.75\00:50:22.98
Right?
00:50:22.98\00:50:24.22
So, to me, my childhood to me
is a window to how it must be,
00:50:24.22\00:50:30.16
I can only say must because
'cause I met Jesus when I was
00:50:30.16\00:50:33.33
17 years old, and like you,
I can't even fathom functioning
00:50:33.33\00:50:38.80
without my worldview in place.
00:50:38.80\00:50:41.70
But maybe it's because of that.
00:50:41.70\00:50:43.14
>>JAMES: What he
said just now is my world.
00:50:43.14\00:50:46.27
So, for several years, my
mom had a boyfriend and this guy
00:50:46.27\00:50:50.58
was evil personified,
you know, he was alcoholic.
00:50:50.58\00:50:58.82
>>TY: Was that the
guy who was with my mom?
00:50:58.82\00:51:01.36
Yep.
00:51:01.36\00:51:03.06
Bingo.
00:51:03.06\00:51:04.29
[Laughter]
00:51:04.29\00:51:05.53
>>JAMES: I remember waking
up my mom just beat up, knife to
00:51:05.53\00:51:07.86
the throat, all kinds of stuff.
00:51:07.86\00:51:09.80
And getting woke up in the
middle of the night and being
00:51:09.80\00:51:14.67
taken from one place, one city
to another city in the middle
00:51:14.67\00:51:18.54
of a snowstorm just because
of whatever, I can't even tell
00:51:18.54\00:51:21.14
you the issues that were going
on and what you just said, I
00:51:21.14\00:51:24.88
realized it because see, what
I did, in a sense, I blocked
00:51:24.88\00:51:28.75
that out.
00:51:28.75\00:51:29.88
I think, in my mind, I was
raised without a dad, I was
00:51:29.88\00:51:32.32
raised without a father,
no, actually, there were these
00:51:32.32\00:51:34.76
guys, there was this guys who
was in our life for years, and
00:51:34.76\00:51:38.19
no way, thank you.
00:51:38.19\00:51:40.53
Well, I told my mom one day,
I said, mom, I said, I hate the
00:51:40.53\00:51:44.40
life that you've brought
us into with him, get him out.
00:51:44.40\00:51:48.64
>>DAVID: How old were you?
00:51:48.64\00:51:49.77
>>JAMES: I was 14 at that
time, and she said to me, it
00:51:49.77\00:51:52.64
was like, to her, it
was like, really, wow.
00:51:52.64\00:51:55.04
And it rocked her,
she was willing to do it.
00:51:55.04\00:51:57.71
And I remember him, he would
come to the house and he would
00:51:57.71\00:51:59.75
be knocking on the door,
knocking on the door, in the
00:51:59.75\00:52:01.48
middle of the night to get in
and she wouldn't open the door
00:52:01.48\00:52:03.02
because of what I had said,
you know, about, but that was
00:52:03.02\00:52:05.49
kind of, in a sense, blocked
out, it was like, no, I never
00:52:05.49\00:52:08.56
really had a dad, because I
didn't want a dad like that, I
00:52:08.56\00:52:11.49
wanted nothing to do
with that kind of dad.
00:52:11.49\00:52:13.26
>>TY: I grew up writing
my name at school, Ty Ross.
00:52:13.26\00:52:20.34
None of you know me
by the name Ty Ross.
00:52:20.34\00:52:24.61
That was my name, R-O-S-S.
00:52:24.61\00:52:27.41
My last name was Ross, that's
what I wrote on my papers, Ty
00:52:27.41\00:52:30.61
Ross, because the guy that was
my dad was named Charles Ross.
00:52:30.61\00:52:39.82
Turns out, he wasn't my dad.
00:52:39.82\00:52:41.86
I didn't know
that, I thought he was.
00:52:41.86\00:52:44.13
That was the guy, he
was not my biological dad.
00:52:44.13\00:52:48.00
He was the guy that was
brutalizing my mother and
00:52:48.00\00:52:50.40
there was so cognitive
and emotional dissonance in my
00:52:50.40\00:52:54.84
world that the moment my mom
told me, he's not your dad, I
00:52:54.84\00:53:00.74
said, then who is?
00:53:00.74\00:53:03.04
And she said a name.
00:53:03.04\00:53:05.65
Jonathan Gibson.
00:53:05.65\00:53:08.25
And in a matter of weeks,
it began, not right then on the
00:53:08.25\00:53:13.15
spot, I was just a kid, but
in a matter of weeks, it dawned
00:53:13.15\00:53:16.76
on me that I wanted a
sharp disassociation, and I said
00:53:16.76\00:53:21.43
mom, could I be Ty Gibson?
00:53:21.43\00:53:24.57
And she said, well, that's
on your birth certificate, you
00:53:24.57\00:53:26.20
can switch to that.
00:53:26.20\00:53:28.10
[Laughter]
00:53:28.10\00:53:29.34
So, I switched to Ty
Gibson an here's the thing, I've
00:53:29.34\00:53:31.54
never met the Gibson guy.
00:53:31.54\00:53:33.84
I don't even know who he is.
00:53:33.84\00:53:35.04
He could be a monster, too,
but at least, I'm building on
00:53:35.04\00:53:36.81
what Jeffrey was saying, at
least, with Jonathan Gibson,
00:53:36.81\00:53:41.35
there's a blank that I
can, it's an empty canvas, I can
00:53:41.35\00:53:46.32
fill in whatever I want.
00:53:46.32\00:53:47.72
>>DAVID: And
Gibson make great guitars.
00:53:47.72\00:53:50.69
>>TY: And Gibson make
guitars, that's right.
00:53:50.69\00:53:52.29
So, I mean, seriously.
00:53:52.29\00:53:53.53
>>JEFFERY: You
could've been Ty Ross.
00:53:53.53\00:53:55.13
>>DAVID: Dude, check this out,
my birth name is David Cross.
00:53:55.13\00:53:59.63
We could be sitting
here right now Ty Ross.
00:53:59.63\00:54:01.77
>>TY: Ty Ross, Jeffrey
whatever, James whatever,
00:54:01.77\00:54:04.67
yeah, it's just nuts.
00:54:04.67\00:54:07.34
>>DAVID: So, don't we have to
go to Revelation chapter 14 to
00:54:07.34\00:54:09.94
end this?
00:54:09.94\00:54:11.21
>>TY: Well, before we go
to Revelation 14, you go there
00:54:11.21\00:54:12.71
and I go to one
right before there?
00:54:12.71\00:54:13.85
>>DAVID: Yeah, go.
00:54:13.85\00:54:15.02
>>TY: So, on the level of
Protestant reformation, and to
00:54:15.02\00:54:18.79
the glory of God alone,
alright, we have to look at
00:54:18.79\00:54:22.22
briefly Ephesians chapter
2, verses 8-10, because this is
00:54:22.22\00:54:26.73
where the reformers were
coming from, for by grace, you
00:54:26.73\00:54:30.47
have been saved through faith
and that not of yourselves, it
00:54:30.47\00:54:36.40
is the gift of God, not
of works lest anyone should
00:54:36.40\00:54:40.28
boast.
00:54:40.28\00:54:42.18
That word boast is glory.
00:54:42.18\00:54:44.75
It could be translated
glory, it's the Greek word, I
00:54:44.75\00:54:46.82
believe, if I'm not wrong
doxa, D-O-X-A, so essentially,
00:54:46.82\00:54:52.29
what he's saying, that in
the scope of the gospel and
00:54:52.29\00:54:54.39
salvation, he's saying
salvation is by grace alone,
00:54:54.39\00:54:57.56
through faith alone, in Christ
alone, so there is no glory,
00:54:57.56\00:55:01.40
it's to the glory of God alone.
00:55:01.40\00:55:03.20
There is no glory for
human beings in this salvation
00:55:03.20\00:55:05.90
enterprise.
00:55:05.90\00:55:06.84
David.
00:55:06.84\00:55:08.10
>>DAVID: I'm basking in that.
00:55:08.10\00:55:09.20
So, Revelation
chapter 14, verse 6, right?
00:55:09.20\00:55:13.54
So, I saw another angel flying
in the midst of heaven, having
00:55:13.54\00:55:15.14
the everlasting gospel to
preach to those that dwell on
00:55:15.14\00:55:17.08
the earth, to every nation,
kindred, tongue, and people,
00:55:17.08\00:55:19.15
saying with a loud voice,
fear God and give glory to him,
00:55:19.15\00:55:22.22
which, you know, we've
probably heard that and spoken
00:55:22.22\00:55:28.09
that and communicated that
in a lot of different ways, but
00:55:28.09\00:55:30.13
how about if we said, what
if the text said, fear God and
00:55:30.13\00:55:35.70
enjoy him for it.
00:55:35.70\00:55:36.97
Right?
00:55:36.97\00:55:39.67
I mean, are you kidding me?
00:55:39.67\00:55:40.80
>>TY: We're not doing any
theological damage to that.
00:55:40.80\00:55:43.91
That's what it means.
00:55:43.91\00:55:46.88
>>DAVID: Fear God and enjoy him.
00:55:46.88\00:55:49.24
It's not compulsory.
00:55:49.24\00:55:51.18
You better, it's
privilege, you get to.
00:55:51.18\00:55:54.68
>>JAMES: And in the context
of Ephesians, fear God and trust
00:55:54.68\00:55:58.42
in him, in the context of
1 Corinthians, trust in his
00:55:58.42\00:56:01.12
works, his merits, his faith,
everything's a gift from God
00:56:01.12\00:56:04.03
so trust in everything
he's done for you without you.
00:56:04.03\00:56:06.16
>>DAVID: See, God gets all
the glory because there's no
00:56:06.16\00:56:09.03
residual glory left to go to us.
00:56:09.03\00:56:12.37
>>TY: But there's a whole
lot of enjoyment that comes from
00:56:12.37\00:56:16.47
God's glory when we understand
it in its proper place.
00:56:16.47\00:56:21.64
Man, what a great
discussion this has been.
00:56:21.64\00:56:24.28
[Music]
00:56:24.28\00:56:32.19
?usic]
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