[Music]
00:00:00.26\00:00:10.27
[Music]
00:00:10.27\00:00:21.12
>>TY: We're moving through
the reformation, you guys, and
00:00:21.12\00:00:23.08
this is both historical
and theological material.
00:00:23.08\00:00:26.65
It's pretty incredible
that a group of individuals at a
00:00:26.65\00:00:31.03
certain time in history all
began to collectively come to
00:00:31.03\00:00:35.10
a unified realization
that something was dramatically
00:00:35.10\00:00:38.77
wrong with the entire
religious and political system
00:00:38.77\00:00:43.54
and voices began to speak
the same thing, all over western
00:00:43.54\00:00:48.44
Europe.
00:00:48.44\00:00:50.05
It's amazing also that, as
they began to articulate what
00:00:50.05\00:00:54.88
they were sensing that their
entire argument against the
00:00:54.88\00:00:58.92
system wasn't
political, wasn't even really
00:00:58.92\00:01:03.43
theological, it was personal.
00:01:03.43\00:01:07.23
It was Jesus.
00:01:07.23\00:01:09.56
They said that a person was
the answer to all the problems
00:01:09.56\00:01:15.80
that they were facing.
00:01:15.80\00:01:18.04
If we maintain a perspective
that merely keeps our faith in
00:01:18.04\00:01:24.75
the realm of theological
tenance, we're in trouble.
00:01:24.75\00:01:27.45
>>DAVID: There
you go, that's right.
00:01:27.45\00:01:29.45
>>TY: It's gotta be brought
into personal experience.
00:01:29.45\00:01:33.29
We're moving through, at this
point in our 13 part series on
00:01:33.29\00:01:36.89
the reformation, the five
solas, sola scriptura, sola
00:01:36.89\00:01:40.93
gracia, sola
fida, now, sola Christo.
00:01:40.93\00:01:44.90
Christ alone.
00:01:44.90\00:01:47.14
All that we've discussed
so far centers in a person, in
00:01:47.14\00:01:51.41
the person of Jesus Christ.
00:01:51.41\00:01:53.84
>>DAVID: Like, the last
time that we were together, the
00:01:53.84\00:01:55.31
redemption that
is in Christ Jesus.
00:01:55.31\00:01:57.75
He's the person.
00:01:57.75\00:01:59.21
>>TY: So, scripture is an
extension of the person of
00:01:59.21\00:02:03.32
Christ.
00:02:03.32\00:02:04.45
He is the Word, capital W,
from which we get the word,
00:02:04.45\00:02:06.29
lowercase.
00:02:06.29\00:02:08.02
He is the Truth,
capital T, from which we get the
00:02:08.02\00:02:11.16
lowercase truth.
00:02:11.16\00:02:12.76
Jesus is the source of the
grace by which we are saved,
00:02:12.76\00:02:17.57
and the faith by which we
lay hold of grace is first on
00:02:17.57\00:02:24.24
display in him.
00:02:24.24\00:02:25.81
It's first the faith of Jesus,
we're on dangerous theological
00:02:25.81\00:02:29.81
and spiritual ground if
our starting point is faith in
00:02:29.81\00:02:33.72
Jesus.
00:02:33.72\00:02:35.58
The starting point for
spiritual experience in
00:02:35.58\00:02:38.25
salvation isn't faith in
Jesus, then the ownness is
00:02:38.25\00:02:41.69
still on us.
00:02:41.69\00:02:43.09
The starting point is
the faith of Jesus, and that
00:02:43.09\00:02:46.53
brings us to sola Christo.
00:02:46.53\00:02:49.00
Jesus is the one in whom
our salvation is an accomplished
00:02:49.00\00:02:54.70
reality and in locating
it, all outside of ourselves in
00:02:54.70\00:02:58.51
him, there is such a release
of Pagan anxiety, which is
00:02:58.51\00:03:04.21
common to all human beings.
00:03:04.21\00:03:05.61
>>DAVID: On that note, Martin
Luther, reflecting back on his
00:03:05.61\00:03:08.42
own human experiences,
says, night and day, I pondered
00:03:08.42\00:03:11.95
until I saw the connection
between the justice of God and
00:03:11.95\00:03:14.42
the statement that the
just shall live by faith.
00:03:14.42\00:03:16.69
Then, I grasped that
the justice of God is that
00:03:16.69\00:03:20.93
righteousness by which
grace and sheer mercy God
00:03:20.93\00:03:24.07
justifies us through
faith, then this sentence.
00:03:24.07\00:03:26.50
There upon, I felt
myself to be reborn.
00:03:26.50\00:03:29.74
And to have gone through
open doors into paradise itself.
00:03:29.74\00:03:33.88
That's the experiential
element you're talking about
00:03:33.88\00:03:35.88
there.
00:03:35.88\00:03:37.08
At some level, it needs to
go from merely the cerebral, or
00:03:37.08\00:03:39.31
intellectual, to the
deeply emotional and personal.
00:03:39.31\00:03:42.45
He says, all of this, I
was having these intellectual
00:03:42.45\00:03:44.45
awareness, these intellectual,
you know, epiphanies, and
00:03:44.45\00:03:47.19
then, I felt like I was born
again and I walked through the
00:03:47.19\00:03:50.79
very gates of paradise.
00:03:50.79\00:03:51.89
As I was contemplating
scripture, the just shall live
00:03:51.89\00:03:55.20
by faith.
00:03:55.20\00:03:56.20
>>TY: What a testimony.
00:03:56.20\00:03:57.17
>>DAVID: And Wesley
has a similar testimony.
00:03:57.17\00:04:02.04
Yeah, right, this idea that
he feels this burden lift from
00:04:02.04\00:04:04.54
him and he had been a
Christian missionary for years
00:04:04.54\00:04:08.04
prior to really
understanding the gospel.
00:04:08.04\00:04:11.18
And when Wesley traces his
conversion, he says, it was at
00:04:11.18\00:04:16.05
a meeting of the Moravian
Missionary Society in London,
00:04:16.05\00:04:18.52
where the introduction to
Luther's commentary on Romans
00:04:18.52\00:04:22.92
was being read.
00:04:22.92\00:04:24.79
>>TY: Just the introduction.
00:04:24.79\00:04:26.23
>>DAVID: The introduction.
00:04:26.23\00:04:27.66
>>JEFFERY: You said he
had been a missionary, so that
00:04:27.66\00:04:28.86
just shows it's possible to
be religious but not have that
00:04:28.86\00:04:32.17
experience.
00:04:32.17\00:04:33.10
Years and decades of
religiosity and going to
00:04:33.10\00:04:37.74
church.
00:04:37.74\00:04:38.84
>>DAVID: Not only is it
possible, it's almost likely.
00:04:38.84\00:04:41.84
You know, Ty has said before,
and I tell you there's a lot
00:04:41.84\00:04:46.35
of truth to it, that religion
is maybe the easiest and best
00:04:46.35\00:04:49.45
place to hide from God, 'cause
you're surrounded by all of
00:04:49.45\00:04:52.55
this God-like stuff.
00:04:52.55\00:04:54.76
You can sort of
avoid God himself.
00:04:54.76\00:04:56.56
>>JEFFERY: You're under the
illusion that you are in this
00:04:56.56\00:05:00.13
experiential journey,
but it's not experiential.
00:05:00.13\00:05:04.60
>>TY: I read something that
somebody said to this effect,
00:05:04.60\00:05:07.37
that the religion of legalism
is a way of forgetting God
00:05:07.37\00:05:12.87
that passes for remembering him.
00:05:12.87\00:05:17.01
>>DAVID: What, say that again?
00:05:17.01\00:05:18.41
>>TY: That legalism is a way
of forgetting God that passes
00:05:18.41\00:05:21.42
for remembering him.
00:05:21.42\00:05:22.42
>>DAVID: Oh, that's hot.
00:05:22.42\00:05:23.59
>>TY: Yeah, the idea is that
you can hide from God in the
00:05:23.59\00:05:29.22
things that
purport to be of God.
00:05:29.22\00:05:32.33
Religious paraphernalia and
books and music and pews and
00:05:32.33\00:05:38.10
pulpits and preachers and
elders and deacons and you can
00:05:38.10\00:05:42.07
just surround yourself with
religion and take refuge from
00:05:42.07\00:05:46.44
grace, from the
gospel, in religion.
00:05:46.44\00:05:50.58
>>DAVID: So, Luther says here,
he pondered night and day this
00:05:50.58\00:05:55.95
phrase, the just
shall live by faith.
00:05:55.95\00:05:59.65
And Ty, we segued into
that experiential thing by you
00:05:59.65\00:06:02.59
saying, and I thought it was
a pretty strong statement, maybe
00:06:02.59\00:06:05.19
a little too strong, so
I'm gonna ask you about it.
00:06:05.19\00:06:08.56
I think you said we're on
dangerous ground if we think
00:06:08.56\00:06:12.83
that the starting
point, the, yeah, that's the
00:06:12.83\00:06:17.17
clarification, the
starting point is my faith, our
00:06:17.17\00:06:21.38
collective faith in Jesus and
not the faith that belongs to
00:06:21.38\00:06:26.65
Jesus.
00:06:26.65\00:06:27.68
So, when Luther is
contemplating, the just shall
00:06:27.68\00:06:29.65
live by faith, he's quoting
there Habakkuk 2, right, he's
00:06:29.65\00:06:32.55
actually quoting Romans 1:17,
which is quoting Habakkuk 2,
00:06:32.55\00:06:37.33
so what does that mean?
00:06:37.33\00:06:39.93
>>TY: This, from my
understanding, is the major
00:06:39.93\00:06:47.74
transition post reformation,
well, we're still in the
00:06:47.74\00:06:52.81
reformation, but this is
the major transition, the next
00:06:52.81\00:06:55.14
step that needs to be
taken because almost all of
00:06:55.14\00:07:00.68
Protestant evangelical
Christianity starts with faith
00:07:00.68\00:07:04.12
in Jesus, but the faith of
Jesus precedes faith in Jesus.
00:07:04.12\00:07:11.16
In fact, his faith is the
stimuli for our faith and when
00:07:11.16\00:07:17.13
we speak of the faith
of Jesus, what we're really
00:07:17.13\00:07:21.04
describing is the dynamic of
love, and what I mean by that
00:07:21.04\00:07:25.41
is 1 Corinthians 13 is where
Paul is describing what love
00:07:25.41\00:07:30.38
looks like in relational action.
00:07:30.38\00:07:32.38
And you know, he says, love
hopes all things and believes
00:07:32.38\00:07:38.69
all things and love never fails.
00:07:38.69\00:07:40.69
He says a lot of other things
about love, but he says it
00:07:40.69\00:07:43.46
hopes, it
believes, and it never fails.
00:07:43.46\00:07:46.66
And it endures.
00:07:46.66\00:07:47.86
Okay, so, if we begin with the
premise that God is love, then
00:07:47.86\00:07:53.90
we could say with theological
accuracy, God hopes, God
00:07:53.90\00:07:58.37
believes, all
things and never fails.
00:07:58.37\00:08:02.68
God believes the best
of an individual before the
00:08:02.68\00:08:07.82
individual even
has confidence in God.
00:08:07.82\00:08:11.85
And that stimulates response.
00:08:11.85\00:08:13.76
One scripture that seems
completely unrelated, but I
00:08:13.76\00:08:17.96
think really is an
illustration of the gospel is
00:08:17.96\00:08:23.00
Song of Solomon chapter 4
verse 7, where Solomon, the
00:08:23.00\00:08:28.40
beloved, the lover is saying
to his beloved, the Shulamite
00:08:28.40\00:08:33.54
woman, you are fair, my love,
you are beautiful, there is no
00:08:33.54\00:08:37.28
flaw in you.
There is no flaw in you.
00:08:37.28\00:08:40.65
Well, of course there were
flaws in her, but there was a
00:08:40.65\00:08:44.99
real sense in which love is
blind, or the scripture says,
00:08:44.99\00:08:48.52
love covers a multitude of sins.
00:08:48.52\00:08:51.19
So, I think that God relates
to us in faith, the faith of
00:08:51.19\00:08:58.53
God in the sense that
he sees what could be.
00:08:58.53\00:09:01.20
He relates to us according
to our potential, not according
00:09:01.20\00:09:04.67
to our current
situation and reality.
00:09:04.67\00:09:07.04
>>DAVID: So, you're
saying that this is a gospel
00:09:07.04\00:09:09.04
principle, God sees us as
we can be, there is no flaw in
00:09:09.04\00:09:12.21
you.
00:09:12.21\00:09:13.38
And then, he invites us to
believe in his belief, to have
00:09:13.38\00:09:16.12
faith in his faith That
is, this to me is a paradigm
00:09:16.12\00:09:19.99
changing idea, and it's
probably been the focus of my
00:09:19.99\00:09:24.29
thinking and preaching on this
over the last about 5 years,
00:09:24.29\00:09:27.36
4-5 years, and when you
see this, stories start coming
00:09:27.36\00:09:33.44
alive, like what Jeffrey
has said, when you see something
00:09:33.44\00:09:35.44
you can't unsee it.
00:09:35.44\00:09:36.60
You start seeing texts of
scripture, wow, I hadn't seen
00:09:36.60\00:09:40.34
that, I hadn't seen
that, I hadn't seen that.
00:09:40.34\00:09:42.34
So, here's an example.
00:09:42.34\00:09:43.58
The woman caught in adultery,
so, all of the people go out,
00:09:43.58\00:09:47.02
they file out as Jesus has
written on the ground in the
00:09:47.02\00:09:49.12
dust of the temple floor
and woman, where are your
00:09:49.12\00:09:52.69
accusers?
00:09:52.69\00:09:53.69
This is John 8,
has no one accused you?
00:09:53.69\00:09:55.69
She says, no man,
Lord, no one has accused me.
00:09:55.69\00:09:58.76
And then, he says, neither do
I condemn you and then, go and
00:09:58.76\00:10:01.23
sin no more.
00:10:01.23\00:10:03.60
Now, you can read that as a
command, hey, you had better
00:10:03.60\00:10:06.84
not.
00:10:06.84\00:10:07.87
If you do this, a worse thing.
00:10:07.87\00:10:10.54
No, what he's saying is, I see
a future for you that you may
00:10:10.54\00:10:14.78
not right now be
able to see for yourself.
00:10:14.78\00:10:17.78
I see a future, you
can leave this life.
00:10:17.78\00:10:20.55
There's a new story, a new
narrative that your life can
00:10:20.55\00:10:23.12
tell, and it
doesn't involve this.
00:10:23.12\00:10:25.12
>>JEFFERY: It's like God
prophecies into us a reality,
00:10:25.12\00:10:27.72
and you all know
Romans chapter 4, where that's
00:10:27.72\00:10:33.36
basically what it says, God
who gives life to the dead and
00:10:33.36\00:10:36.36
calls those things which do
not exist as though they did
00:10:36.36\00:10:40.97
exist.
00:10:40.97\00:10:43.10
So, God speaks a truth into
you that may not be, it's not
00:10:43.10\00:10:48.28
there yet, but it will be.
00:10:48.28\00:10:51.51
>>DAVID: So, Paul is drawing
that theological point from
00:10:51.51\00:10:53.52
the embryonic story in
the Jewish nation, or in the
00:10:53.52\00:10:58.69
Hebrew people,
and that's Abraham.
00:10:58.69\00:11:00.92
You're gonna have lots of
descendants, stars of the sky,
00:11:00.92\00:11:04.63
sand of the sea.
00:11:04.63\00:11:05.63
Man, you're gonna
bless the nations.
00:11:05.63\00:11:08.23
And Abraham's like,
yeah, okay, so, on that.
00:11:08.23\00:11:11.10
I don't have any children.
00:11:11.10\00:11:14.37
But God makes
promises based on what will be.
00:11:14.37\00:11:17.74
He speaks faith into our lives.
00:11:17.74\00:11:21.24
Go and sin no more.
00:11:21.24\00:11:22.88
>>JEFFERY: And in a
sense, that's what the 10
00:11:22.88\00:11:24.31
commandments are, right?
00:11:24.31\00:11:25.51
If we view them as promises,
they're declaratives speaking
00:11:25.51\00:11:29.25
into the individual.
00:11:29.25\00:11:30.62
>>DAVID: You no longer have to.
00:11:30.62\00:11:32.25
>>JEFFERY: If you accept me
as your redeemer, you will no
00:11:32.25\00:11:35.06
longer.
00:11:35.06\00:11:36.76
>>DAVID: Exactly, and then
you go down the commandments.
00:11:36.76\00:11:38.19
>>JEFFERY: And then you
go down the commandments, you
00:11:38.19\00:11:39.23
will no longer live this
broken way of life and so
00:11:39.23\00:11:42.53
forth.
00:11:42.53\00:11:44.07
>>DAVID: Another story that's
come alive for me is Acts 9
00:11:44.07\00:11:45.80
where Saul has been persecuting,
he's now, you know blinded, and
00:11:45.80\00:11:50.71
he's hiding in this you
know, home there in Damascus and
00:11:50.71\00:11:54.44
when Ananias comes in, he says
Brother Saul, God told me to
00:11:54.44\00:11:58.41
tell you something and what
he told me to tell you is that
00:11:58.41\00:12:00.25
you will bear his name
before kings, that you will be a
00:12:00.25\00:12:03.15
powerful preacher and that
you will suffer yet many things
00:12:03.15\00:12:05.82
for his sake.
00:12:05.82\00:12:06.99
So, that is not what Saul
is expecting to hear from God.
00:12:06.99\00:12:11.29
I mean, his view of God is,
when they're out of line, you
00:12:11.29\00:12:13.70
punish them, you persecute
them, and if need be, you end
00:12:13.70\00:12:15.60
their lives.
00:12:15.60\00:12:16.77
So, here, no, God's
got big plans for you.
00:12:16.77\00:12:19.27
God sees a future for you
that you can't see right now of
00:12:19.27\00:12:21.90
which your temporal blindness
is only an illustration of
00:12:21.90\00:12:25.27
your larger spiritual
blindness, but God's got a
00:12:25.27\00:12:26.84
plan for you.
00:12:26.84\00:12:28.51
He's inviting you to
believe in what he sees for your
00:12:28.51\00:12:31.21
future.
00:12:31.21\00:12:32.41
>>JEFFERY: And the beautiful
thing is that God would not be
00:12:32.41\00:12:35.52
able to reveal that reality
to us completely because we
00:12:35.52\00:12:37.92
wouldn't be able to handle it.
00:12:37.92\00:12:39.72
So, he takes us on a journey,
on a step by step journey,
00:12:39.72\00:12:44.96
because that would be
overwhelming to us for God to
00:12:44.96\00:12:48.60
be able to somehow reveal
to you the kind of human being
00:12:48.60\00:12:53.37
that he dreams
that you would become.
00:12:53.37\00:12:57.24
And so, that's the
point of the journey.
00:12:57.24\00:13:00.18
>>TY: Jeffrey, you took us
to Romans 4:17, God calls those
00:13:00.18\00:13:04.31
things which do not exist as
though they do and the context
00:13:04.31\00:13:07.22
of course is he's calling
you righteous even though you're
00:13:07.22\00:13:09.68
not, which in the human realm,
that's lying, but from God's
00:13:09.68\00:13:14.59
perspective, it's not lying
because he's prophesying and
00:13:14.59\00:13:17.56
his word has power to produce
what he says, but if you take
00:13:17.56\00:13:22.56
chapter 4, verse 17, Paul
develops, develops, develops,
00:13:22.56\00:13:25.97
when he comes to chapter 6
and verse 11, he says, likewise,
00:13:25.97\00:13:29.47
you also reckon yourselves
to be dead to sin but alive to
00:13:29.47\00:13:32.91
God in Jesus Christ, our Lord.
00:13:32.91\00:13:35.34
Reckon yourself.
00:13:35.34\00:13:36.95
Reckon means what?
00:13:36.95\00:13:40.12
>>DAVID: Consider.
00:13:40.12\00:13:41.18
>>TY: Consider, regard
yourself the way, you're not
00:13:41.18\00:13:43.69
righteous, but regard yourself
as righteous by virtue of the
00:13:43.69\00:13:49.36
fact that you're in Christ.
00:13:49.36\00:13:51.03
Begin to see yourself
differently and then, add to
00:13:51.03\00:13:54.30
that chapter 10 of Romans
verse 8, I don't know if you
00:13:54.30\00:13:57.50
guys have ever noticed this,
this just dawned on me a while
00:13:57.50\00:14:01.27
ago, it says here that the
gospel is the word of God and
00:14:01.27\00:14:04.74
then it says that it is the
word of faith which we preach.
00:14:04.74\00:14:10.18
Okay, the gospel, specifically
in the bible in general, we
00:14:10.18\00:14:15.12
call this the word of God.
00:14:15.12\00:14:17.79
Paul calls it the word of
faith, so whose faith is it on
00:14:17.79\00:14:21.26
display in the word?
00:14:21.26\00:14:22.56
The faith of God, okay.
00:14:22.56\00:14:25.09
So, in that sense, in that
sense, that's what we talked
00:14:25.09\00:14:28.53
about in our
previous conversation, right?
00:14:28.53\00:14:31.43
Where Jesus is a new narrative.
00:14:31.43\00:14:36.54
He's a new story.
00:14:36.54\00:14:37.71
He is according to, what is
it, Ephesians 2 or Ephesians
00:14:37.71\00:14:42.04
4, where he's
called the one new man.
00:14:42.04\00:14:45.61
Four.
00:14:45.61\00:14:47.58
He's the one new
man, he's the new human.
00:14:47.58\00:14:49.98
So, the bible
is telling a story.
00:14:49.98\00:14:53.89
It's the word of God's faith
that is first lived out in the
00:14:53.89\00:14:58.96
person of Christ, and we're
invited to indentify with that
00:14:58.96\00:15:05.20
new narrative.
00:15:05.20\00:15:06.37
So, we can either trace
our identity to the first Adam,
00:15:06.37\00:15:10.97
with all the sin and guilt
and shame and woe that proceeds
00:15:10.97\00:15:13.84
from him and that can be our
identifier, the one with whom
00:15:13.84\00:15:20.15
we identify.
00:15:20.15\00:15:21.35
Or we can say, not the first
Adam, but the second Adam, the
00:15:21.35\00:15:24.89
new man.
00:15:24.89\00:15:26.09
I relate to, I
identify with, by faith, Jesus.
00:15:26.09\00:15:31.16
I want my humanity to
be like his, not like his.
00:15:31.16\00:15:35.23
So, I'm shifting to a new start.
00:15:35.23\00:15:37.73
>>JAMES: I notice when you
say like Christ, you're pointing
00:15:37.73\00:15:40.54
to me and when you say like
the fallen, you're pointing to
00:15:40.54\00:15:42.84
Jeffrey.
00:15:42.84\00:15:44.04
I just noticed that, I don't
know if you guys noticed that.
00:15:44.04\00:15:45.84
>>TY: It was unconscious.
00:15:45.84\00:15:46.91
>>DAVID: It was Ephesians
2, the new man, Ephesians
00:15:46.91\00:15:50.28
2:14-15.
00:15:50.28\00:15:51.48
>>TY: In Ephesians 2, when
it talks about Jesus being the
00:15:51.48\00:15:53.62
one new man, it's very
interesting, he's the one new
00:15:53.62\00:15:56.79
man and as such, in him,
is combined the people of all
00:15:56.79\00:16:02.66
ethnicities and nations.
00:16:02.66\00:16:03.99
That's the point.
00:16:03.99\00:16:05.06
So, the middle wall of
partition, which he calls in
00:16:05.06\00:16:08.50
the text, enmity, hatred,
hostility between people.
00:16:08.50\00:16:14.17
The hostility between people,
the wall of hostility between
00:16:14.17\00:16:17.21
people is broken down, why?
00:16:17.21\00:16:19.34
Because Jesus is
the universal man.
00:16:19.34\00:16:22.48
Because Jesus is
the universal man.
00:16:22.48\00:16:23.48
Jesus is the one man
that represents all men.
00:16:26.25\00:16:29.62
>>JAMES: Check his lineage.
00:16:29.62\00:16:31.02
Matthew wrote it
powerfully and amazingly.
00:16:31.02\00:16:34.26
Yeah.
00:16:34.26\00:16:35.46
>>DAVID: There's four women
in there, in the genealogy and
00:16:35.46\00:16:37.73
every one of them is a Gentile.
00:16:37.73\00:16:39.06
Different situations,
different backgrounds, a mixed
00:16:39.06\00:16:43.03
multitude we would say.
00:16:43.03\00:16:44.23
So, it's interesting, on the
point about the faith of Jesus
00:16:44.23\00:16:49.57
and a new reality and calling
those things, when Luther
00:16:49.57\00:16:54.84
says, again, I'm going back
to Luther, he pondered day and
00:16:54.84\00:16:56.88
night on that statement, the
just shall live by faith, the
00:16:56.88\00:16:59.11
just shall live by faith.
00:16:59.11\00:17:00.18
I'm gonna say something
that might sound crazy.
00:17:00.18\00:17:03.79
I think that Luther was
teaching what he was teaching
00:17:03.79\00:17:07.56
clearly, in the sense that he
was teaching that we cannot be
00:17:07.56\00:17:10.76
justified or saved by works,
but it's through Jesus, it's
00:17:10.76\00:17:14.40
by faith, or it's by
grace, it's through faith.
00:17:14.40\00:17:16.90
I get all of that, but I think
that while Luther was accurate
00:17:16.90\00:17:22.80
in the big picture, I think
exegetically, on that text,
00:17:22.80\00:17:27.94
there has been development
that suggests that there is a
00:17:27.94\00:17:31.15
better way to read
what's going on there.
00:17:31.15\00:17:33.15
>>TY: When you say that
text, you mean which text?
00:17:33.15\00:17:35.15
>>DAVID: I mean the text
that was the nucleus, the just
00:17:35.15\00:17:38.15
shall live by faith.
00:17:38.15\00:17:39.72
This is the thing.
00:17:39.72\00:17:40.72
>>JEFFERY: So, for
him, it was his faith.
00:17:40.72\00:17:42.82
>>TY: The just shall
live by faith in Jesus.
00:17:42.82\00:17:44.83
>>JEFFERY: My faith in Jesus.
00:17:44.83\00:17:46.33
>>DAVID: Right, but it's
interesting, if you go back
00:17:46.33\00:17:48.43
and I'll just read you
this bombshell of a statement.
00:17:48.43\00:17:50.53
If you go back and actually
read in Romans chapter 1
00:17:50.53\00:17:54.27
where, that's quoted, right,
you have Romans chapter 1,
00:17:54.27\00:17:57.14
verses 16 and 17, where it
says the just shall live by
00:17:57.14\00:17:59.14
faith.
00:17:59.14\00:18:00.24
He's quoting from
Habakkuk, which we mentioned.
00:18:00.24\00:18:02.14
So, I've just got my bible
open here to Habakkuk, and if
00:18:02.14\00:18:05.61
you read through this and I'll
just read the first 4 verses,
00:18:05.61\00:18:09.05
if you read the first chapter
of Habakkuk, the first four
00:18:09.05\00:18:11.69
verses say, the burden which
the prophet Habakkuk saw, oh,
00:18:11.69\00:18:15.82
Lord, how long will I cry
and you will not hear, I cry out
00:18:15.82\00:18:18.99
to you, violence,
and you do not save.
00:18:18.99\00:18:21.90
Why do you show me this
iniquity and cause me to see
00:18:21.90\00:18:24.30
trouble?
00:18:24.30\00:18:25.37
Plundering and violence
are everywhere before me.
00:18:25.37\00:18:27.30
There is strife and
contention, therefore the law
00:18:27.30\00:18:29.30
is powerless and
justice never goes forth.
00:18:29.30\00:18:31.31
For the wicked surround the
righteous, therefore, perverse
00:18:31.31\00:18:33.31
judgment proceeds.
00:18:33.31\00:18:34.48
God then responds, and says,
you think this is bad, it's
00:18:34.48\00:18:38.28
gonna get worse.
00:18:38.28\00:18:39.45
The Babylonians are gonna
come and you're gonna see even
00:18:39.45\00:18:41.28
worse things.
00:18:41.28\00:18:42.48
He then comes back again,
the prophet Habakkuk, chapter 1,
00:18:42.48\00:18:45.62
verse 12, are you not from
everlasting, oh, Lord, my God,
00:18:45.62\00:18:49.36
oh holy one?
00:18:49.36\00:18:50.36
We will not die, oh Lord.
00:18:50.36\00:18:51.66
You have appointed them
for judgment, oh rock, you have
00:18:51.66\00:18:54.36
marked them for correction.
00:18:54.36\00:18:55.96
you are of pure
eyes than to behold evil.
00:18:55.96\00:18:58.17
You cannot look at wickedness.
00:18:58.17\00:18:59.70
Why do you look on those
who deal treacherously and hold
00:18:59.70\00:19:03.27
your tongue when the
wicked devours a person more
00:19:03.27\00:19:05.47
righteous than he?
00:19:05.47\00:19:06.84
Why do you make men like the
fish of the sea, like creeping
00:19:06.84\00:19:08.74
things that have
no ruler over them?
00:19:08.74\00:19:11.05
>>JEFFERY: Why do you,
why do you, why do you?
00:19:11.05\00:19:14.08
>>TY: It's a diatribe against
apparently God not doing what
00:19:14.08\00:19:18.59
God should do.
00:19:18.59\00:19:19.49
>>DAVID: You're not being God.
00:19:19.49\00:19:21.09
>>TY: Where's your justice?
00:19:21.09\00:19:22.46
>>DAVID: And sometimes, we're
like, whoa, blasphemy, but the
00:19:22.46\00:19:24.03
prophets often registered
their frustration with God's
00:19:24.03\00:19:27.76
seeming absence
from various situations.
00:19:27.76\00:19:30.70
So, he's saying, what,
where, why, what are you doing?
00:19:30.70\00:19:34.40
Now this is so interesting,
then chapter 2, verse 1,
00:19:34.40\00:19:38.34
Habakkuk says, I will stand
my watch, I will set myself on
00:19:38.34\00:19:41.04
the rampart and watch to
see what he will say to me in
00:19:41.04\00:19:43.51
response to what
amounts to an interrogation.
00:19:43.51\00:19:48.65
And what I will
answer when I am corrected?
00:19:48.65\00:19:52.52
Then the Lord said unto me,
here it is, here's the answer
00:19:52.52\00:19:55.56
to this interrogation.
00:19:55.56\00:19:56.96
Write the vision, make it
plain on tablets that he may
00:19:56.96\00:20:00.06
run who reads it, for the
vision is yet for a future
00:20:00.06\00:20:03.93
time, an appointed time,
at the end, it will speak, it
00:20:03.93\00:20:07.07
will not tell a lie.
00:20:07.07\00:20:08.57
Though it tarries, though it
waits, though it delays, wait
00:20:08.57\00:20:11.77
for it because it will surely
come and it will not delay.
00:20:11.77\00:20:15.34
Look at the proud, his soul
is not righteous or upright in
00:20:15.34\00:20:18.11
him, but the just
shall live by his faith.
00:20:18.11\00:20:23.49
>>TY: The it
that's coming is a him.
00:20:23.49\00:20:25.49
>>DAVID: The it that is
coming, the thing that will be
00:20:25.49\00:20:27.49
so plain as if written on
tablets of stone that even
00:20:27.49\00:20:29.96
somebody that's running by
quickly will be able to see it
00:20:29.96\00:20:31.96
like an advertisement, is Jesus.
00:20:31.96\00:20:33.96
It's Jesus.
00:20:33.96\00:20:34.93
>>JEFFERY: So, the his is Jesus.
00:20:34.93\00:20:36.93
>>TY: I love that so much.
00:20:36.93\00:20:38.67
I can't even tell you.
00:20:38.67\00:20:40.37
>>DAVID: Oh, I'm telling you.
00:20:40.37\00:20:42.07
>>TY: This puts the faith
of Jesus in the context of
00:20:42.07\00:20:45.91
theodicy, do you see that?
00:20:45.91\00:20:47.14
>>DAVID: Absolutely, yes I do.
00:20:47.14\00:20:48.41
You need to unpack that,
we need to take a break and I
00:20:48.41\00:20:51.55
want you to unpack that.
00:20:51.55\00:20:53.45
The faith of Jesus in
the context of theodicy.
00:20:53.45\00:20:56.42
>>TY: We do
need to take a break.
00:20:56.42\00:20:57.55
Let's come back in a minute.
00:20:57.55\00:21:00.66
[Music]
00:21:00.66\00:21:12.27
Announcer: Want a
seat at the table?
00:21:12.27\00:21:13.74
Well, you're certainly invited.
00:21:13.74\00:21:15.84
Visit our website
at lightbearers.org.
00:21:15.84\00:21:18.64
In fact, you may wanna make
it your homepage because we're
00:21:18.64\00:21:21.64
always adding something new
to strengthen your relationship
00:21:21.64\00:21:24.71
with Jesus.
00:21:24.71\00:21:26.05
At lightbearers.org, you'll
find thought-provoking blogs
00:21:26.05\00:21:30.05
and verse-by-verse bible
studies on a variety of vital
00:21:30.05\00:21:32.99
topics.
00:21:32.99\00:21:34.22
Our online resource center has
an excellent lineup of books,
00:21:34.22\00:21:38.93
CDs, and DVDs that present
God's word with clarity and
00:21:38.93\00:21:43.43
power.
00:21:43.43\00:21:44.63
Our presenters
include, Jeffery Rosario, James
00:21:44.63\00:21:49.54
Rafferty, David
Asscherick, Ty Gibson, and more.
00:21:49.54\00:21:55.08
We also maintain an archive
of audio and video messages you
00:21:55.08\00:21:59.15
can access free of charge.
00:21:59.15\00:22:01.72
Feel free to listen online,
or download to your computer,
00:22:01.72\00:22:04.72
tablet, or Smartphone.
00:22:04.72\00:22:06.86
Under events, you'll discover
locations and dates where
00:22:06.86\00:22:10.23
ministry events will be
held throughout the year.
00:22:10.23\00:22:12.99
We'd love to see you.
00:22:12.99\00:22:14.93
If you've felt a personal call
to ministry, our Arise school
00:22:14.93\00:22:18.37
will help get you going.
00:22:18.37\00:22:20.24
We have training programs
that vary from nine days to 13
00:22:20.24\00:22:24.61
weeks.
00:22:24.61\00:22:25.77
Click on the learn more
link for more details about each
00:22:25.77\00:22:28.71
program.
00:22:28.71\00:22:30.08
Stay up to date with the
latest sermons, media, news,
00:22:30.08\00:22:33.72
and events by subscribing
to our monthly newsletter.
00:22:33.72\00:22:37.09
If you'd like to help us
continue producing gospel
00:22:37.09\00:22:40.22
resources, please donate using
our convenient and secure web
00:22:40.22\00:22:44.23
page, and receive a
tax deductible receipt.
00:22:44.23\00:22:47.46
We're here to serve and equip
you in sharing your passion
00:22:47.46\00:22:51.40
for Christ and the global
advancement of his benevolent
00:22:51.40\00:22:54.64
kingdom.
00:22:54.64\00:22:56.37
Lightbearers.org.
00:22:56.37\00:22:58.11
There's room at the
Light Bearers table for you.
00:22:58.11\00:23:01.64
There's room at the
Light Bearers table for you.
00:23:01.64\00:23:03.04
[Music]
00:23:03.75\00:23:09.95
>>TY: Man, this Habakkuk's
passage that you took us to,
00:23:09.95\00:23:14.39
which, let's remind ourselves,
this is where Paul is grounded
00:23:14.39\00:23:18.33
in the book of Romans.
00:23:18.33\00:23:19.63
Romans introduces the gospel
by quoting that very passage.
00:23:19.63\00:23:23.37
And Romans 1, verses 16 and
17, the just shall live by his
00:23:23.37\00:23:29.07
faith, and it's the faith
specifically of Jesus, which
00:23:29.07\00:23:32.74
is proven by the fact
that Habakkuk is a messianic
00:23:32.74\00:23:37.05
prophecy that is saying, wait
for it, it's coming, in answer
00:23:37.05\00:23:40.05
to the question,
why is there injustice?
00:23:40.05\00:23:42.05
You're not
dealing with the issues.
00:23:42.05\00:23:44.05
You're not dealing with the
issues in this world, there's
00:23:44.05\00:23:47.42
slaughter, there's war,
there's bloodshed, where are
00:23:47.42\00:23:50.49
you, God?
00:23:50.49\00:23:51.49
Why aren't you doing anything?
00:23:51.49\00:23:53.56
And God says, wait, wait,
it's coming, it's coming, it's
00:23:53.56\00:23:57.93
coming, and the just
shall live by his faith.
00:23:57.93\00:24:02.30
Jesus comes into the world as
the answer, as the solution to
00:24:02.30\00:24:07.94
all evil.
00:24:07.94\00:24:09.48
He does this on multiple levels.
00:24:09.48\00:24:11.48
Yeah, we see in his life,
Jesus comes into solidarity
00:24:11.48\00:24:15.15
with human beings in his
incarnation and at the cross
00:24:15.15\00:24:18.45
of Calvary and in coming
into solidarity, we even answer.
00:24:18.45\00:24:22.09
of Calvary and in coming
into solidarity, we even answer.
00:24:22.09\00:24:23.56
>>JEFFREY: You did not.
00:24:24.36\00:24:25.36
>>DAVID: What a boss.
00:24:25.36\00:24:26.76
>>TY: Can you take him out?
00:24:26.76\00:24:28.90
>>TY: Can you take him out?
00:24:28.90\00:24:30.37
>>DAVID: Just
ended life, carrying on.
00:24:30.40\00:24:32.33
>>DAVID: Just
ended life, carrying on.
00:24:32.33\00:24:32.90
>>CAMERAMAN: That was amazing.
00:24:33.03\00:24:34.04
>>JEFFERY: Finish your
thought, finish your thought.
00:24:34.17\00:24:35.90
>>TY: The fly has been
troubling us for the whole
00:24:35.90\00:24:42.31
discussion.
00:24:42.31\00:24:44.58
What are you gonna do with it?
00:24:44.58\00:24:45.81
Well, don't touch me and don't
turn the pages of your bible.
00:24:45.81\00:24:48.18
[Laughter]
00:24:48.18\00:24:50.49
Okay, there we go,
there we go, there we go.
00:24:50.49\00:24:53.59
Okay, there we go,
there we go, there we go.
00:24:53.59\00:24:54.76
>>JAMES: There he is, people.
00:24:54.76\00:24:55.96
>>TY: James,
that was impressive.
00:24:55.96\00:24:57.29
>>JAMES: Jim inspired me.
00:24:57.29\00:25:00.93
Thanks, Jim.
00:25:00.93\00:25:02.06
>>TY: Okay, so, we're looking
for a philosophical, maybe
00:25:02.06\00:25:08.27
even a technical answer to
why is there sin and suffering?
00:25:08.27\00:25:13.31
God answers the question
by entering into the suffering
00:25:13.31\00:25:16.21
with us.
00:25:16.21\00:25:18.98
You look at the cross
of Calvary, you look at the
00:25:18.98\00:25:21.35
person of Christ, and he's
entering into the human story,
00:25:21.35\00:25:25.15
taking our shame, our
guilt, our sorrows upon himself.
00:25:25.15\00:25:28.42
He's entering into it with us.
00:25:28.42\00:25:30.49
I mean, this is a poor
illustration, but picture,
00:25:30.49\00:25:34.60
this is a good illustration,
but it barely approximates
00:25:34.60\00:25:40.30
what really happened in Christ.
00:25:40.30\00:25:42.34
There's somebody who's
suffering and is hospitalized.
00:25:42.34\00:25:46.41
One person shows up for
the visit, reading bible verses
00:25:46.41\00:25:51.08
and articulating propositional
points about suffering.
00:25:51.08\00:25:55.52
Another person shows up
and sits in silence with the
00:25:55.52\00:26:00.76
sufferer, cries with them,
holds their hand, prays with
00:26:00.76\00:26:04.43
them and identifies by
sharing in their story.
00:26:04.43\00:26:09.80
Where's the greater comfort?
00:26:09.80\00:26:12.40
In a moment of suffering,
the cross of Calvary is God's
00:26:12.40\00:26:16.27
ultimate answer to the
theodicy question, why is
00:26:16.27\00:26:21.58
there sin and suffering
in the world if God is good?
00:26:21.58\00:26:23.58
Well, Jesus proves that God
is good in the ultimate sense
00:26:23.58\00:26:28.05
that he doesn't remain aloof
from our pain, he enters into
00:26:28.05\00:26:32.12
it with us.
00:26:32.12\00:26:33.29
I love Habakkuk now in ways
that I've never seen before.
00:26:33.29\00:26:35.76
>>DAVID: And what I love about
what you just said there, Ty,
00:26:35.76\00:26:38.26
is in the dark nights of
the soul, we need more than a
00:26:38.26\00:26:41.70
proposition, we need a person.
00:26:41.70\00:26:43.23
>>TY: That's right.
00:26:43.23\00:26:44.23
And Jesus is that person.
00:26:44.23\00:26:45.50
>>DAVID: Listen to this,
now this is a bombshell of a
00:26:45.50\00:26:48.64
scholarly statement, written
by Sigve Tonstad in his book,
00:26:48.64\00:26:52.67
Romans, Paul
Among the Ecologists.
00:26:52.67\00:26:54.68
Now, just listen to
this, this is a bombshell.
00:26:54.68\00:26:57.15
He says neither the Hebrew
bible, nor the Septuagint,
00:26:57.15\00:27:00.75
that's the Greek translation
of the Old Testament.
00:27:00.75\00:27:03.79
So, neither the Hebrew bible,
nor the Septuagint supports
00:27:03.79\00:27:06.02
the translation the righteous
live by their faith, Habakkuk
00:27:06.02\00:27:10.59
2:4, or the wording of the
mainstream bible translations
00:27:10.59\00:27:14.36
into English.
00:27:14.36\00:27:15.43
Indeed, the choice of
wording in most translations of
00:27:15.43\00:27:18.43
Habakkuk, this is crazy,
listen to this, betrays the
00:27:18.43\00:27:21.84
translator's desire to put
words into Habakkuk's mouth
00:27:21.84\00:27:26.01
that would fit what the same
translators assume Paul to be
00:27:26.01\00:27:28.91
saying when he quotes the
Old Testament prophet in Romans.
00:27:28.91\00:27:31.68
Rather than allowing Habakkuk
to influence our understanding
00:27:31.68\00:27:35.48
of Paul, we have allowed
the Paul of Protestant Orthodoxy
00:27:35.48\00:27:39.35
retroactively to influence
translations of Habakkuk.
00:27:39.35\00:27:42.22
>>TY: He's essentially
saying that we're bringing a
00:27:42.22\00:27:44.86
human-centered assumption
to the reading of Paul.
00:27:44.86\00:27:48.83
>>DAVID: Yeah, exactly.
00:27:48.83\00:27:50.10
>>TY: It's gotta be your faith.
00:27:50.10\00:27:51.30
>>DAVID: And chronologically,
Habakkuk comes first, so to
00:27:51.30\00:27:54.27
translate Paul in such a
way that we're retroactively
00:27:54.27\00:27:57.04
saying, hey, what
Habakkuk meant, no.
00:27:57.04\00:28:00.24
So, what you have Luther
quoting Paul, Paul is quoting
00:28:00.24\00:28:03.41
Habakkuk, but this is key,
when Luther's quoting Paul,
00:28:03.41\00:28:06.61
he's quoting the Paul, as
it says here, of Protestant
00:28:06.61\00:28:09.22
Orthodoxy.
00:28:09.22\00:28:10.42
Which is fine.
00:28:10.42\00:28:11.45
In that 16th century,
the question that was being
00:28:11.45\00:28:14.02
debated is faith
alone, okay, fine.
00:28:14.02\00:28:18.59
So, Luther, with his 16th
century eyes is arriving at
00:28:18.59\00:28:22.33
some of the truth, and
a big part of the truth.
00:28:22.33\00:28:24.93
Jesus, sola Christo, right?
00:28:24.93\00:28:27.80
But it was even, it's not
less that what Luther thought.
00:28:27.80\00:28:32.81
It's the faith of Jesus.
00:28:32.81\00:28:35.88
His faith and his faithfulness
to us, to which our faith is
00:28:35.88\00:28:42.88
just a faint echo, a
shadowy of a reflection.
00:28:42.88\00:28:47.49
>>TY: And that brings us back
to our first discussion, the
00:28:47.49\00:28:50.53
real key to understanding
the Old Testament is the idea of
00:28:50.53\00:28:55.26
God's covenant faithfulness.
00:28:55.26\00:28:57.53
So, why wouldn't you expect
that to be the narrative in
00:28:57.53\00:28:59.80
the New Testament with Christ?
00:28:59.80\00:29:00.94
>>DAVID: With the Messiah.
00:29:00.94\00:29:02.00
>>TY: Yeah, Jesus, is
living out the Old Testament
00:29:02.00\00:29:05.01
covenantal promise of God's
faithfulness to us, not our
00:29:05.01\00:29:09.28
faithfulness to him.
00:29:09.28\00:29:11.08
>>JAMES: This really was
clear to me, I mean, it's become
00:29:11.08\00:29:14.22
clearer to me as we've
been talking right now, but the
00:29:14.22\00:29:16.22
clearest that it came home
to my heart, my brain, just now,
00:29:16.22\00:29:21.46
is when you were talking about
Romans chapter 10, and I just
00:29:21.46\00:29:24.49
wanna read it again and see if
I picked up the point you were
00:29:24.49\00:29:27.13
making and this is it, okay,
'cause you know, I look in the
00:29:27.13\00:29:30.17
bible and I see there's not a
lot of the faith of Jesus, the
00:29:30.17\00:29:33.07
faith of Jesus, the faith of
Jesus, the faith, but all of a
00:29:33.07\00:29:35.10
sudden I started
realizing, that doesn't matter.
00:29:35.10\00:29:38.21
The phrase the faith of Jesus
is not the foundation for the
00:29:38.21\00:29:42.94
faith of Jesus.
00:29:42.94\00:29:44.71
The faith of Jesus is, Paul
says here, but what saith it?
00:29:44.71\00:29:48.15
The word is neither even in
thy mouth and in thine heart,
00:29:48.15\00:29:51.95
that is, the word of
faith which we preach.
00:29:51.95\00:29:54.82
The faith of Jesus
is the entire bible.
00:29:54.82\00:29:57.36
The word of faith.
00:29:57.36\00:29:59.33
>>TY: What an insight.
00:29:59.33\00:30:01.13
>>JAMES: The word of faith,
and so, the whole thing is the
00:30:01.13\00:30:03.87
faith of Jesus.
00:30:03.87\00:30:05.13
From Genesis to Revelation,
the whole story is the faith
00:30:05.13\00:30:08.67
of Jesus, therefore, Paul
didn't have to get all caught
00:30:08.67\00:30:12.81
up in how many times he
said the faith of Jesus, no,
00:30:12.81\00:30:17.18
because it was just, it's just
there, the faith of Jesus is
00:30:17.18\00:30:20.82
just the whole narrative.
00:30:20.82\00:30:22.32
In fact, maybe he wasn't even
concerned about that in Romans
00:30:22.32\00:30:25.32
chapter 1 or Habakkuk, because
it doesn't really matter to
00:30:25.32\00:30:28.46
him because he knows and
he's hoping that someday, we'll
00:30:28.46\00:30:31.43
know that the faith of Jesus
is the underlying foundation
00:30:31.43\00:30:33.86
of the entire thing.
00:30:33.86\00:30:35.86
The whole story.
00:30:35.86\00:30:37.00
>>DAVID: Jeffrey, were you
gonna say something to that.
00:30:37.00\00:30:39.37
>>JEFFERY: No, go ahead.
00:30:39.37\00:30:40.50
>>DAVID: Well, what I was
gonna say to that is this is
00:30:40.50\00:30:41.90
why, first of all, I do
think, just as a point of my own
00:30:41.90\00:30:45.41
perspective, I think that
Paul deals extensively with the
00:30:45.41\00:30:48.28
faith of Jesus as, I
get what you're saying.
00:30:48.28\00:30:50.68
He does in Romans.
00:30:50.68\00:30:52.51
If you read Matthew chapter
1, verse 1, right, this is the
00:30:52.51\00:30:55.95
start of the New Testament.
00:30:55.95\00:30:57.65
The book of the genealogy
of Jesus Christ, the Son of
00:30:57.65\00:31:00.56
David, the Son of Abraham.
00:31:00.56\00:31:02.69
Okay, you can't even get the
New Testament started without
00:31:02.69\00:31:06.70
the Old Testament.
00:31:06.70\00:31:07.96
If you don't know who David
is and the promises that God
00:31:07.96\00:31:10.23
made, the promises that God
made to David and the covenant
00:31:10.23\00:31:14.34
that God made with Abraham,
good luck understanding the
00:31:14.34\00:31:17.21
New Testament.
00:31:17.21\00:31:18.41
There's a lot of, oh, I'm a
New Testament Christian, okay,
00:31:18.41\00:31:20.51
fine and good, but the New
Testament is vacuous without
00:31:20.51\00:31:23.85
the Old Testament, vacuous
is too strong of a word, the New
00:31:23.85\00:31:25.91
Testament is unsupported
without the Old Testament,
00:31:25.91\00:31:28.72
yeah, what's it about?
00:31:28.72\00:31:29.78
Behold, the Lamb of God
that takes away, the what?
00:31:29.78\00:31:32.99
>>JEFFERY: Jesus
is our high priest.
00:31:32.99\00:31:35.36
What?
00:31:35.36\00:31:36.73
>>DAVID: The Son of
Abraham, who's Abraham?
00:31:36.73\00:31:38.93
The Son of David, who's David?
00:31:38.93\00:31:40.63
But when you read, as an,
if you look at my bible, I've
00:31:40.63\00:31:43.63
actually, I'm gonna hold
this up for everybody to see, I
00:31:43.63\00:31:46.63
take, this is the only
uninspired page in the bible,
00:31:46.63\00:31:49.57
the one that separatist the
Old and the New Testament, so
00:31:49.57\00:31:51.57
what I do is, I just fold
it over so that I don't have to
00:31:51.57\00:31:54.31
look at it, because it
suggests that there is a
00:31:54.31\00:31:56.51
discontinuity, that there's
some bifurcation, that that's
00:31:56.51\00:32:00.78
that and that's that.
00:32:00.78\00:32:02.05
No.
00:32:02.05\00:32:03.05
This is one story.
00:32:03.05\00:32:04.65
>>JAMES: So, Jesus taking down
all the walls, including that
00:32:04.65\00:32:06.86
one.
00:32:06.86\00:32:08.02
>>DAVID: He broke down the
middle wall of partition right
00:32:08.02\00:32:10.06
here.
00:32:10.06\00:32:11.16
So, Jesus shows up in
response to all of the promises.
00:32:11.16\00:32:13.53
We went to this text, 2
Corinthians chapter 1, verse
00:32:13.53\00:32:15.50
20.
00:32:15.50\00:32:16.46
All of the promises
of God are yes, in Jesus.
00:32:16.46\00:32:19.53
We went there.
00:32:19.53\00:32:20.77
So, when we come here, what we
see is Jesus behaving in a way
00:32:20.77\00:32:24.34
that is consistent
with what we see love to be.
00:32:24.34\00:32:27.11
Love believes all things, love
hopes all things, love endures
00:32:27.11\00:32:29.21
all things, love never fails.
00:32:29.21\00:32:30.51
Jesus believes all things,
Jesus hopes all things, Jesus
00:32:30.51\00:32:33.75
endures all things, including
the cross, and he never
00:32:33.75\00:32:36.62
failed.
00:32:36.62\00:32:37.69
So, now, we come and we
say, I believe that story.
00:32:37.69\00:32:40.26
Now, the word belief and faith
are very similar words, very
00:32:40.26\00:32:45.73
similar words, and yes,
there is a very strong and true
00:32:45.73\00:32:49.83
sense in which I need to
believe it and God invites us
00:32:49.83\00:32:52.93
to have faith in it.
00:32:52.93\00:32:54.14
But that is a reflection.
00:32:54.14\00:32:56.17
In the same way that my love
is just a faint reflection of
00:32:56.17\00:32:59.07
his love, my faith is just a
faint reflection of his faith
00:32:59.07\00:33:02.51
and his faithfulness.
00:33:02.51\00:33:03.65
>>JEFFERY: Do you think
that possibly Luther landed on
00:33:03.65\00:33:06.95
that?
00:33:06.95\00:33:07.95
>>TY: No, he didn't.
00:33:07.95\00:33:09.35
Not in Romans, he didn't.
00:33:09.35\00:33:11.89
>>JEFFERY: Regardless of
his treatment of Romans 1, I'm
00:33:11.89\00:33:15.82
thinking, if he believes in
this total depravity concept,
00:33:15.82\00:33:20.03
what you're saying is that, it
can't begin with us, it has to
00:33:20.03\00:33:23.77
be the faith of Jesus, not
my faith in Jesus, because that
00:33:23.77\00:33:28.00
still puts me as in an
initiating position, right?
00:33:28.00\00:33:34.18
Well, if he believes in total
depravity, clearly he believed
00:33:34.18\00:33:37.31
that he's not the initiator.
00:33:37.31\00:33:40.15
He doesn't have the
capacity to initiate.
00:33:40.15\00:33:42.05
>>TY: In concept, in concept,
he did see it, is what you're
00:33:42.05\00:33:47.32
suggesting.
00:33:47.32\00:33:48.46
>>DAVID: His solution,
what was his solution to that?
00:33:48.46\00:33:52.89
What was Luther's solution?
00:33:52.89\00:33:54.10
We've talked about it in this
program, not this program, but
00:33:54.10\00:33:56.70
in this series?
00:33:56.70\00:33:57.90
What was Luther's solution
to the fact that it can't be my
00:33:57.90\00:34:00.34
faith.
00:34:00.34\00:34:01.34
>>TY: Irresistible grace.
00:34:01.34\00:34:02.34
>>DAVID: Yeah, that's right.
00:34:02.34\00:34:03.47
The denial of free will.
00:34:03.47\00:34:07.01
So, that's one way to do
it, but another way to handle it
00:34:07.01\00:34:10.18
is to say, all of that faith,
all of that grace resides in
00:34:10.18\00:34:13.88
Jesus and I simply
access it by believing.
00:34:13.88\00:34:18.45
Now, all of these, in fact,
were you gonna say something,
00:34:18.45\00:34:20.86
'cause I wanna go to a...
00:34:20.86\00:34:22.06
>>JAMES: Well, I just wanna
build on that as you're going.
00:34:22.06\00:34:24.19
And that is, and when we allow
the faith of Jesus to be as
00:34:24.19\00:34:28.00
large as it is, then there's
no fear in us dwelling upon
00:34:28.00\00:34:33.97
this subjective
experience, the works.
00:34:33.97\00:34:35.97
As long as that experience
looms large, the rest of it is
00:34:35.97\00:34:38.64
just a natural, that's what
Paul does over and over again.
00:34:38.64\00:34:40.94
He says, do we
do away with love?
00:34:40.94\00:34:42.94
Do we do away with it?
00:34:42.94\00:34:44.55
No, of course not, of course.
00:34:44.55\00:34:46.21
In fact, he has no fear of
talking about it to the hilt,
00:34:46.21\00:34:48.72
as long as this
picture looms large behind him.
00:34:48.72\00:34:51.02
It's like...
00:34:51.02\00:34:52.02
>>DAVID: He assumes it.
00:34:52.02\00:34:53.02
>>JAMES: Yes.
00:34:53.02\00:34:54.06
He's under the shadow of
grace, and therefore, he's
00:34:54.06\00:34:56.02
good.
00:34:56.02\00:34:57.03
>>DAVID: He assumes it.
00:34:57.03\00:34:58.19
So, Paul, in Galatians
chapter 2, I love this.
00:34:58.19\00:35:01.16
Galatians chapter 2, there's
a passage here that has the
00:35:01.16\00:35:05.77
phrase pistus Cristu, which
is the Greek phrase for faith
00:35:05.77\00:35:08.60
Jesus, three times.
00:35:08.60\00:35:10.77
Faith Jesus, faith
Jesus, faith Jesus.
00:35:10.77\00:35:12.77
Here in
Galatians 2, Galatians 2.
00:35:12.77\00:35:15.44
So, what I'm gonna do is, I'm
just gonna read this through,
00:35:15.44\00:35:18.81
Galatians 2, beginning in
verse 15, I'm gonna read it
00:35:18.81\00:35:20.92
through, okay, then I'm
gonna go back and show those
00:35:20.92\00:35:24.69
sections where faith in
Christ, pistus Cristu, faith
00:35:24.69\00:35:28.39
Jesus, or faith Christ,
can be rendered in the, not the
00:35:28.39\00:35:32.76
objective genitive, but
the subjective genitive, and
00:35:32.76\00:35:35.06
you'll see how it totally
transforms the passage, and
00:35:35.06\00:35:38.40
then, I'm gonna show you a
very interesting redundancy
00:35:38.40\00:35:41.44
that is resolved by doing that.
00:35:41.44\00:35:42.77
>>TY: Okay, chapter 2.
00:35:42.77\00:35:43.74
>>DAVID: Galatians 2,
beginning in verse 15.
00:35:43.74\00:35:46.17
Paul says, we who are Jews
by nature and not sinners of the
00:35:46.17\00:35:49.34
Gentiles, knowing that a man
is not justified by the works
00:35:49.34\00:35:52.71
of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ, even we have
00:35:52.71\00:35:56.22
believed in Christ Jesus, that
we might be justified by faith
00:35:56.22\00:35:59.69
in Christ and not by
the works of the law.
00:35:59.69\00:36:02.36
For by the works of the law,
no flesh shall be justified.
00:36:02.36\00:36:05.53
But if, while seeking to
be justified by Christ, we
00:36:05.53\00:36:08.63
ourselves are found sinners,
is Christ therefore a minister
00:36:08.63\00:36:11.23
for sin?
00:36:11.23\00:36:12.23
Certainly not.
00:36:12.23\00:36:13.40
For if I build again those
things which I have destroyed,
00:36:13.40\00:36:15.24
I make myself a transgressor,
for I through the law, died to
00:36:15.24\00:36:18.14
the law that I
might live to God.
00:36:18.14\00:36:20.14
I have been crucified with
Christ, it is no longer I who
00:36:20.14\00:36:22.34
live, but Christ lives in me,
and the life which I now live
00:36:22.34\00:36:24.55
in the flesh, I live by faith
in the Son of God, who loved
00:36:24.55\00:36:27.55
me and gave himself for me.
00:36:27.55\00:36:29.35
I do not set aside the grace
of God, for if righteousness
00:36:29.35\00:36:31.72
comes through the law,
then Christ died in vain.
00:36:31.72\00:36:33.72
Okay?
00:36:33.72\00:36:35.62
Now, I made one
slight error there.
00:36:35.62\00:36:37.63
I said pistus Cristu occurs
3 times in the passage, that's
00:36:37.63\00:36:41.06
not true, it occurs twice,
but pistus occurs three times,
00:36:41.06\00:36:43.97
actually, almost four,
but you'll see what I mean by
00:36:43.97\00:36:45.97
this.
00:36:45.97\00:36:46.90
Now, I'm gonna reread
this, more slowly now.
00:36:46.90\00:36:48.97
Verse 15.
00:36:48.97\00:36:50.31
We who are Jews by nature,
that is to say, we're Jews,
00:36:50.31\00:36:53.64
we're genealogical Jews, we're
descendants of Abraham, and
00:36:53.64\00:36:56.44
not sinners of the Gentiles,
when he says this, he is not
00:36:56.44\00:36:58.71
saying all Gentiles are
sinners, he's speaking tongue
00:36:58.71\00:37:01.08
in cheek.
00:37:01.08\00:37:02.05
The Greek word here is
literally lesser breeds.
00:37:02.05\00:37:04.09
>>JAMES: Like the way you see
it, you Jews see the Gentiles
00:37:04.09\00:37:06.96
that way.
00:37:06.96\00:37:08.12
>>DAVID: We know, it's in
house language, we know we're
00:37:08.12\00:37:10.86
not the lesser breeds, okay,
verse 16, knowing that a man
00:37:10.86\00:37:14.46
is not justified by the
works of the law, but by the
00:37:14.46\00:37:18.03
faithfulness of the
Messiah, Jesus, now watch this
00:37:18.03\00:37:22.80
redundancy.
00:37:22.80\00:37:23.77
Faith of Jesus, which
is better, now watch this
00:37:23.77\00:37:26.24
redundancy
that's done away with.
00:37:26.24\00:37:28.24
'Cause notice the very next
phrase, even we have believed
00:37:28.24\00:37:30.61
in Christ Jesus.
00:37:30.61\00:37:31.65
>>TY: Yeah, it would be
pointless to say it twice.
00:37:31.65\00:37:33.62
>>DAVID: We have faith in
Jesus, we believe in Jesus,
00:37:33.62\00:37:36.15
and those words faith and
belief are almost the same
00:37:36.15\00:37:38.65
words, they're
just so closely related.
00:37:38.65\00:37:40.66
So, look at it again.
00:37:40.66\00:37:41.66
>>JAMES: This is beautiful.
00:37:41.66\00:37:42.86
>>DAVID: We, okay, so we are
not justified by the works of
00:37:42.86\00:37:44.66
the law, but by the
faithfulness of Jesus, the
00:37:44.66\00:37:46.66
Messiah, so we believe that
story, we believe that story,
00:37:46.66\00:37:50.73
that we might be justified
by the faithfulness of Messiah
00:37:50.73\00:37:56.74
and not by the works of the law.
00:37:56.74\00:37:58.74
For by the works of the law,
no flesh shall be justified.
00:37:58.74\00:38:00.74
But if, while we seek to
be justified by Christ, by
00:38:00.74\00:38:04.38
Christ, by his faith, if we
ourselves are found sinners,
00:38:04.38\00:38:07.82
is Christ
therefore a minister for sin?
00:38:07.82\00:38:11.65
Certainly not.
00:38:11.65\00:38:12.82
For if I build again those
things which I have destroyed,
00:38:12.82\00:38:14.79
I make myself a transgressor,
just a brief word on that.
00:38:14.79\00:38:17.16
What he's saying is, if I
try to build up the wall between
00:38:17.16\00:38:19.69
Jew and Gentile, if I erect
a sign, okay, this is a quote,
00:38:19.69\00:38:24.13
use an illustration, can
I borrow a piece of paper.
00:38:24.13\00:38:26.13
I'll just do this real quick.
00:38:26.13\00:38:27.94
So, if I erect a sign that
says, Jews only, okay, Jews
00:38:27.94\00:38:36.48
only, I erect a sign, I'm
building again, Jews only,
00:38:36.48\00:38:39.51
you're out, this
is for Jews only.
00:38:39.51\00:38:41.52
The back of that sign says,
you are also a transgressor.
00:38:41.52\00:38:48.36
Right?
00:38:48.36\00:38:50.13
Because the big drama of
the calling of the Jewish nation
00:38:50.13\00:38:53.96
is that they
themselves needed a Savior.
00:38:53.96\00:38:55.93
They themselves are sinners.
00:38:55.93\00:38:57.60
So, he says, if I erect
that wall of partition, I cut
00:38:57.60\00:39:02.00
myself off.
00:39:02.00\00:39:03.17
Because the back of the sign
says, you also are, so, if I
00:39:03.17\00:39:06.84
use Torah as a way to keep you
out, that's what he's saying.
00:39:06.84\00:39:09.64
Now, this is so key, you know
that that's what he's saying
00:39:09.64\00:39:12.71
because verse 19, for I
through the law, through the
00:39:12.71\00:39:14.72
Torah, I through
the law died to the law.
00:39:14.72\00:39:18.92
I had to go back and
read my own scriptures.
00:39:18.92\00:39:23.02
The Torah, and I realized
that I'd been reading them wrong
00:39:23.02\00:39:26.19
all along.
00:39:26.19\00:39:27.20
Then, verse 20.
00:39:27.20\00:39:28.23
>>TY: This is so good, I
can hardly contain myself.
00:39:28.23\00:39:31.90
>>DAVID: Then verse 20 is
a verse we know so well, but
00:39:31.90\00:39:33.90
listen to it with new ears.
00:39:33.90\00:39:35.87
I have been crucified with the
Messiah, it is no longer I who
00:39:35.87\00:39:40.18
lives, but the Messiah
lives in me, and the life that I
00:39:40.18\00:39:42.84
now live in the flesh, I live
by the faithfulness of the Son
00:39:42.84\00:39:46.82
of God, who loved me and
showed that faithfulness by
00:39:46.82\00:39:50.55
giving himself for me.
00:39:50.55\00:39:51.79
And then he says, this
makes such sense, look, I'm not
00:39:51.79\00:39:55.22
setting aside the grace of
God, because if righteousness
00:39:55.22\00:39:58.26
came through the law,
then what's Jesus doing on the
00:39:58.26\00:40:01.36
cross?
00:40:01.36\00:40:02.36
Being faithful unto death?
00:40:02.36\00:40:05.23
That's the faith of Jesus.
00:40:05.23\00:40:07.90
>>TY: What a blessing, to
put the whole gospel in Christ.
00:40:07.90\00:40:17.28
There's such a relief and
yet, simultaneously, with that
00:40:17.28\00:40:21.62
relief, an overwhelming
sense of new motivation.
00:40:21.62\00:40:25.39
>>DAVID: Not no
motivation, new motivation.
00:40:25.39\00:40:29.79
>>TY: Man.
00:40:29.79\00:40:30.79
>>DAVID: Not I have
to, I ought to, I should.
00:40:30.79\00:40:32.79
I get to, I want
to, I can't wait to.
00:40:32.79\00:40:36.23
>>TY: Yeah that's
beautiful. That's beautiful.
00:40:36.23\00:40:38.50
Let's take a break
and we'll come right back.
00:40:38.50\00:40:40.60
>>TY: Yeah that's
beautiful. That's beautiful.
00:40:40.60\00:40:40.90
[Music]
00:40:41.10\00:40:53.25
Announcer: A Light in Zambia
is a moving video documentary
00:40:53.25\00:40:55.78
that traces the stories of 5
amazing African men and women
00:40:55.78\00:41:00.16
who encountered Christ through
the powerful medium of gospel
00:41:00.16\00:41:03.19
literature.
00:41:03.19\00:41:04.36
To receive your free copy,
call 877-585-1111, or write to
00:41:04.36\00:41:09.93
Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper
Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438.
00:41:09.93\00:41:17.14
Once again, to receive
your free copy of A Light in
00:41:17.14\00:41:19.97
Zambia, call 877-585-1111,
or write to Light Bearers,
00:41:19.97\00:41:26.75
37457 Jasper Lowell
Road, Jasper, OR 97438.
00:41:26.75\00:41:32.72
Simply ask for the Zambia DVD.
00:41:32.72\00:41:35.76
Simply ask for the Zambia DVD.
00:41:35.76\00:41:36.89
[Music]
00:41:36.89\00:41:42.33
[Music]
00:41:42.33\00:41:43.40
>>TY: Man, if there's
anything that just lights me
00:41:43.40\00:41:46.63
on fire inside, it's this
faith of Jesus concept that
00:41:46.63\00:41:51.41
Paul is articulating
in Romans and Galatians.
00:41:51.41\00:41:55.44
Understanding this passage
that you just broke down for
00:41:55.44\00:41:58.45
us, David, it's amazing,
it's amazing not merely on the
00:41:58.45\00:42:03.18
level of understanding,
although you can't separate
00:42:03.18\00:42:06.15
understanding from it because
it's the understanding that
00:42:06.15\00:42:08.09
produces such an
emotional release.
00:42:08.09\00:42:10.33
It creates a tremendous
sense of immediate freedom.
00:42:10.33\00:42:16.36
You're just overcome with
a sense of God loves me like
00:42:16.36\00:42:20.94
that?
00:42:20.94\00:42:22.37
And the weight just comes off.
00:42:22.37\00:42:26.07
>>DAVID: Here's John Wesley.
00:42:26.07\00:42:27.28
When he was in the Moravian
missionary meeting in London,
00:42:27.28\00:42:31.05
and he hears the reading of
Luther's commentary, he says
00:42:31.05\00:42:33.21
this, I felt my
heart strangely warmed.
00:42:33.21\00:42:36.45
I felt I did trust in Christ,
Christ alone, sola Christo,
00:42:36.45\00:42:42.26
for salvation.
00:42:42.26\00:42:43.96
And an assurance was given
me that he had taken away my
00:42:43.96\00:42:47.83
sins, even mine and saved me
from the law of sin and death.
00:42:47.83\00:42:53.44
>>JAMES: But it's interesting
because we were talking about
00:42:53.44\00:42:55.44
Luther's commentary on
Romans, now we're talking about
00:42:55.44\00:42:58.54
Wesley's understanding of
Luther's commentary on Romans,
00:42:58.54\00:43:00.91
but we're taking it
one step further here.
00:43:00.91\00:43:02.91
>>TY: Table Talk's
understanding of Wesley's
00:43:02.91\00:43:04.91
understanding of Luther's
understanding of Romans.
00:43:04.91\00:43:06.95
>>JAMES: No, no, no, no,
no, no, but we're going further
00:43:06.95\00:43:10.65
because we're saying also
that Luther didn't quite get it
00:43:10.65\00:43:13.15
all, right?
00:43:13.15\00:43:14.16
>>DAVID: I
agree with that, yeah.
00:43:14.16\00:43:16.16
>>JAMES: We're taking it one
step further and we're saying
00:43:16.16\00:43:18.16
there's a fuller picture
of the faith of Jesus that is
00:43:18.16\00:43:20.90
much larger.
00:43:20.90\00:43:21.93
There's a picture here
that takes in a completely
00:43:21.93\00:43:24.70
different perspective of how
we read the bible, and now, we
00:43:24.70\00:43:27.60
need to reread the whole bible.
00:43:27.60\00:43:29.07
>>DAVID: And you see it.
00:43:29.07\00:43:30.11
That's actually what
Paul means, when he says in
00:43:30.11\00:43:33.94
Galatians 2:19, for I through
the law, died to the law.
00:43:33.94\00:43:38.88
'Cause he knew the Torah.
00:43:38.88\00:43:40.32
He said, I had to go back
and read my own book, and I
00:43:40.32\00:43:44.62
realized that I had been
reading my own book, my own
00:43:44.62\00:43:47.89
history, my own,
my people's book.
00:43:47.89\00:43:49.99
>>JEFFERY: It's that
veil that we talked about.
00:43:49.99\00:43:51.99
>>TY: You know, he does
articulate in 2 Corinthians 3.
00:43:51.99\00:43:54.30
>>DAVID: Maybe
we should go there?
00:43:54.30\00:43:56.26
>>JAMES: I think so.
00:43:56.26\00:43:57.27
That's gonna nail it for us.
00:43:57.27\00:43:59.53
I think that's
really gonna help us.
00:43:59.53\00:44:02.20
>>TY: By the way, Jeffrey,
David was mentioning the
00:44:02.20\00:44:05.61
kingdom New Testament,
it's right here, you can get the
00:44:05.61\00:44:09.38
thing on your phone.
00:44:09.38\00:44:10.71
>>DAVID: Yeah, I
have it, it's great.
00:44:10.71\00:44:12.71
Because, as Tonstad says there
in his commentary on Romans,
00:44:12.71\00:44:17.25
you won't find this in
most of the mainstream bible
00:44:17.25\00:44:19.62
translations, the best
you get is the King James.
00:44:19.62\00:44:22.16
'Cause the King James says
the faith of Jesus and of is the
00:44:22.16\00:44:24.66
possessive, it's the genitive.
00:44:24.66\00:44:25.96
>>JAMES: I'm not gonna
argue with you on that.
00:44:25.96\00:44:27.96
>>DAVID: [Laughter]
00:44:27.96\00:44:28.93
It's the best, it
is certainly the best.
00:44:28.93\00:44:30.93
>>TY: Okay, so, 2 Corinthians
chapter 3, where do you wanna
00:44:30.93\00:44:35.90
start?
00:44:35.90\00:44:37.07
I'd go all the way back to
verse 6 and move forward with
00:44:37.07\00:44:40.28
this passage.
00:44:40.28\00:44:41.64
>>DAVID: That's always the
hard thing about scripture,
00:44:41.64\00:44:43.18
isn't it?
00:44:43.18\00:44:44.45
It's like, where do you jump in?
00:44:44.45\00:44:45.98
[Laughter]
00:44:45.98\00:44:48.08
>>TY: So, in verse 6,
Paul says, we have been made
00:44:48.08\00:44:52.25
sufficient ministers of
the new covenant, not of the
00:44:52.25\00:44:55.49
letter, but of the spirit,
for the letter kills and the
00:44:55.49\00:44:57.56
spirit gives life.
00:44:57.56\00:44:58.69
So, in this passage, he's
essentially saying, those of
00:44:58.69\00:45:02.66
us who preach the
gospel, which, priesthood of all
00:45:02.66\00:45:05.00
believers is all believers,
he's saying that our calling
00:45:05.00\00:45:09.87
is to preach the new
covenant, that is to say, in his
00:45:09.87\00:45:12.61
context, he's about to
explain to us, our calling is to
00:45:12.61\00:45:15.41
reframe Torah.
00:45:15.41\00:45:18.31
Think about it that way.
00:45:18.31\00:45:19.48
Our calling is to
reframe the law, yeah.
00:45:19.48\00:45:21.48
That's what he's about
to do for us himself in the
00:45:21.48\00:45:25.15
explanation.
00:45:25.15\00:45:26.35
We're called to preach the
new covenant, not the oldness of
00:45:26.35\00:45:29.39
letter, but the new, and then
he says, verse 7, but if the
00:45:29.39\00:45:33.73
ministry of death, written and
engraved in stone was glorious
00:45:33.73\00:45:37.10
and it was, he's referring
specifically to the event at
00:45:37.10\00:45:39.93
Sinai, the lightning, thunder,
it was a glorious event, and
00:45:39.93\00:45:44.04
the law itself is glorious,
the law itself serves a
00:45:44.04\00:45:47.48
purpose, it communicates,
by the law is the knowledge of
00:45:47.48\00:45:50.25
sin.
00:45:50.25\00:45:51.45
He says, it's glorious so that
the children of Israel could
00:45:51.45\00:45:53.25
not look steadily at the face
of Moses because of the glory,
00:45:53.25\00:45:57.99
there's his word again, of
his countenance, which glory was
00:45:57.99\00:46:01.52
passing away.
00:46:01.52\00:46:02.86
Now, we get nervous at
this point because he just said
00:46:02.86\00:46:06.26
that what happened at Sinai,
that glory is passing away,
00:46:06.26\00:46:11.03
but he's about
to explain himself.
00:46:11.03\00:46:13.03
>>DAVID: Can I
ask you a question?
00:46:13.03\00:46:15.04
>>TY: Yes, go.
00:46:15.04\00:46:16.20
>>DAVID: I've always been
troubled by this and maybe you
00:46:16.20\00:46:18.04
guys can help me out here.
00:46:18.04\00:46:19.14
When he says the face of
Moses, because of the glory of
00:46:19.14\00:46:21.04
his countenance, or his face,
which glory was passing away,
00:46:21.04\00:46:24.38
is that saying that the glory
of the law was passing away,
00:46:24.38\00:46:28.12
or his face didn't glow
for the rest of his life?
00:46:28.12\00:46:30.45
>>TY: If you keep reading
the passage all the way through,
00:46:30.45\00:46:33.42
Paul is beginning with his
face and ending with the law.
00:46:33.42\00:46:36.42
Paul is beginning with his
face and ending with the law.
00:46:36.42\00:46:39.19
No, the glory of the event,
Paul is using as a platform,
00:46:39.19\00:46:44.27
as you keep reading, to
say that we need to undergo a
00:46:44.27\00:46:47.90
transition in our
understanding of scripture
00:46:47.90\00:46:52.74
that becomes centered in Christ.
00:46:52.74\00:46:54.88
We need to...
00:46:54.88\00:46:55.94
>>DAVID: I get that, I'm
on that page, but just that
00:46:55.94\00:46:58.51
phrase, which
glory was passing away?
00:46:58.51\00:47:00.12
What's he saying there?
00:47:00.12\00:47:03.15
>>TY: It's the glory of the
law is giving way to the glory
00:47:03.15\00:47:04.69
of Christ.
00:47:04.69\00:47:05.79
That's my understanding of
it and that's what he says.
00:47:05.79\00:47:08.76
>>DAVID: I know that's where
the passage, that is not in
00:47:08.76\00:47:11.86
dispute, I just always
wondered about that phrase.
00:47:11.86\00:47:14.30
Is he saying the law is losing
its glory or that Moses's face
00:47:14.30\00:47:17.67
didn't glow for
the rest of his life?
00:47:17.67\00:47:19.60
It dimmed.
00:47:19.60\00:47:20.77
>>JAMES: No, no, he's talking
about the law, and I think
00:47:20.77\00:47:22.60
what part of what he's saying
there is, is that the people
00:47:22.60\00:47:24.61
were not ready to enter into
the fuller revelation of God
00:47:24.61\00:47:28.51
and into the relationship that
God wanted to have with them.
00:47:28.51\00:47:31.75
Moses was.
00:47:31.75\00:47:32.81
>>TY: Which is on record
in the passage in Exodus.
00:47:32.81\00:47:34.75
>>DAVID: That's a good point.
00:47:34.75\00:47:35.75
That becomes an illustration.
00:47:35.75\00:47:36.99
>>JAMES: And that was the goal
that God had and that goal was
00:47:36.99\00:47:39.29
fulfilled in Christ.
00:47:39.29\00:47:40.69
So, they stopped and that
limited glory had to pass away
00:47:40.69\00:47:46.16
so that they could get to
the end of what the purpose of
00:47:46.16\00:47:49.03
that was and the end was
Christ, the end was actually
00:47:49.03\00:47:51.10
contingency with God.
00:47:51.10\00:47:52.27
It comes out further as
you read on, verse 13 is really
00:47:52.27\00:47:55.54
clear on that.
00:47:55.54\00:47:56.50
>>DAVID: So, where
are we, we're on verse 8.
00:47:56.50\00:47:58.64
>>TY: We're on verse 8.
00:47:58.64\00:47:59.94
But again, in verse 7,
there's the glory of the Sinai
00:47:59.94\00:48:05.88
event that includes the glory
of the countenance of Moses,
00:48:05.88\00:48:09.18
etcetera, and then, verse 8,
he says, that's passing away,
00:48:09.18\00:48:13.89
but how will the ministry
of the spirit be, not be more
00:48:13.89\00:48:17.69
glorious?
00:48:17.69\00:48:18.53
He's asking a question.
00:48:18.53\00:48:19.76
If that was glorious, wouldn't
what happened in the spirit be
00:48:19.76\00:48:22.60
more glorious?
00:48:22.60\00:48:24.57
And then, verse 9, for if
the ministry of condemnation had
00:48:24.57\00:48:28.50
glory, the ministry of
righteousness exceeds much
00:48:28.50\00:48:33.64
more in glory.
00:48:33.64\00:48:35.94
What he means by this language
is he's saying, the law can
00:48:35.94\00:48:41.02
only serve to increase my
sense of guilt and to condemn,
00:48:41.02\00:48:45.65
but Jesus comes along through
the spirit and doesn't put
00:48:45.65\00:48:49.16
condemnation on me, he
puts righteousness on me.
00:48:49.16\00:48:52.03
He puts it on me.
00:48:52.03\00:48:53.40
Just like the Romans,
chapter 4, verse 17 passage.
00:48:53.40\00:48:57.00
He's regarding me as
righteous, even though I'm
00:48:57.00\00:48:59.63
not.
00:48:59.63\00:49:00.50
Okay, so then, he says.
00:49:00.50\00:49:01.84
>>JEFFERY: It's interesting
that the condemnation here is
00:49:01.84\00:49:04.47
even considered glorious.
00:49:04.47\00:49:05.97
>>TY: Well, Galatians explains
that because it had glory in
00:49:05.97\00:49:10.58
that it was a
tutor, it was an educator.
00:49:10.58\00:49:12.58
It served an
actual good purpose.
00:49:12.58\00:49:14.58
Okay, so then, if the ministry
of condemnation had glory, the
00:49:14.58\00:49:18.82
ministry of righteousness
exceeds much more in glory,
00:49:18.82\00:49:21.22
for even what was made
glorious had no glory in this
00:49:21.22\00:49:26.16
respect because of
the glory that excels.
00:49:26.16\00:49:29.00
If you've only ever been
awake at night, you've only seen
00:49:29.00\00:49:34.04
moonlight, but then,
suddenly, after years of being a
00:49:34.04\00:49:37.51
teenager and never seeing
daylight, you enter your 20s
00:49:37.51\00:49:40.88
and you start waking up in
the morning and you see the
00:49:40.88\00:49:43.88
sunrise.
00:49:43.88\00:49:45.41
>>DAVID: Man,
the moon is bright.
00:49:45.41\00:49:47.42
>>TY: The moon was really
glorious, but now that you've
00:49:47.42\00:49:49.68
seen the sun, the moon has
no glory in this respect, by
00:49:49.68\00:49:53.52
means of the glory that excels.
00:49:53.52\00:49:55.82
>>JEFFREY: By comparison.
00:49:55.82\00:49:56.96
>>TY: By comparison, I
mean, we're talking here about,
00:49:56.96\00:49:59.96
okay, the Sinai event
or the Golgotha event.
00:49:59.96\00:50:05.00
And he's saying, listen.
00:50:05.00\00:50:06.70
>>DAVID:
Glorious, far more glorious.
00:50:06.70\00:50:09.37
>>TY: Okay, so, then he
goes on and this is powerful, he
00:50:09.37\00:50:12.67
says, verse 11, for if what
is passing away was glorious,
00:50:12.67\00:50:19.01
what remains is
much more glorious.
00:50:19.01\00:50:22.45
Therefore, since we have such
hope, we use great boldness of
00:50:22.45\00:50:27.22
speech, unlike Moses who
put a veil over his face so the
00:50:27.22\00:50:30.26
children of Israel could not
look steadily to the end, the
00:50:30.26\00:50:34.93
telos, the objective, the
purpose, of that which was
00:50:34.93\00:50:39.13
passing away.
00:50:39.13\00:50:40.50
>>DAVID: Can I just stop right
there, when you just say the
00:50:40.50\00:50:42.44
end, the telos, that was
the point that Paul was making
00:50:42.44\00:50:45.81
when he said, to the
law, I die to the law.
00:50:45.81\00:50:47.88
I had to go back and reread
my own, 'cause I thought it was
00:50:47.88\00:50:50.08
about Israel.
00:50:50.08\00:50:51.08
I thought the
big story was Israel.
00:50:51.08\00:50:52.55
>>JEFFERY: I got the end wrong.
00:50:52.55\00:50:53.75
>>DAVID: Yeah, the
big story was Messiah.
00:50:53.75\00:50:55.75
Okay, unpause.
00:50:55.75\00:50:57.82
>>TY: Okay, unlike Moses, who
put a veil over his face, we,
00:50:57.82\00:51:00.96
oh, verse 12, therefore,
since we have such hope, we use
00:51:00.96\00:51:04.23
great boldness of speech,
unlike Moses who put a veil
00:51:04.23\00:51:07.40
over his face so that the
children of Israel could not
00:51:07.40\00:51:10.27
look steadily to the end of
that which was passing away,
00:51:10.27\00:51:13.00
but their minds, and this is
the point you were making, and
00:51:13.00\00:51:15.94
this is why we came to this
passage, but their minds were
00:51:15.94\00:51:19.14
blinded for until this day,
the same veil remains unlifted
00:51:19.14\00:51:26.08
in the reading of the Old
Testament because the veil is
00:51:26.08\00:51:30.52
taken away in Christ.
00:51:30.52\00:51:32.29
But even to this day,
when Moses is read, the veil is
00:51:32.29\00:51:36.26
upon, lies upon their heart,
nevertheless, when one turns
00:51:36.26\00:51:39.89
to the Lord, that's Jesus,
the veil is lifted, it's taken
00:51:39.89\00:51:43.37
away, now, the Lord is that
spirit, and where the spirit
00:51:43.37\00:51:46.94
of the Lord is, there is
liberty, and then, verse 18,
00:51:46.94\00:51:48.84
this is his clincher, but
we, all with unveiled face,
00:51:48.84\00:51:53.98
beholding as in a mirror,
the glory of the Lord are being
00:51:53.98\00:51:57.85
transformed into the same
image from glory to glory,
00:51:57.85\00:52:03.49
just as by the
spirit of the Lord.
00:52:03.49\00:52:05.22
Now, that we've read the
context, we know that what
00:52:05.22\00:52:08.16
Paul is specifically dealing
with here in the glory to
00:52:08.16\00:52:11.06
glory statement is,
that's right, we're making a
00:52:11.06\00:52:16.03
transition from the glory
of the Sinai event to the glory
00:52:16.03\00:52:20.00
of the Christ event and
we're realizing that the entire
00:52:20.00\00:52:24.77
narrative of scripture
is now answered in Christ.
00:52:24.77\00:52:30.08
>>DAVID: This is the plot,
the Golgotha event, the Christ
00:52:30.08\00:52:33.48
event, this is just a subplot.
00:52:33.48\00:52:35.38
Not that it's not important,
this has a tutorial role, but
00:52:35.38\00:52:37.39
this is the plot.
00:52:37.39\00:52:38.55
>>JAMES: And Moses saw this
more than the people saw it,
00:52:38.55\00:52:46.06
his face was
lighting up with glory.
00:52:46.06\00:52:48.03
He saw it, the people couldn't
handle it so he put a veil
00:52:48.03\00:52:51.83
over his face.
00:52:51.83\00:52:53.00
So, look at this, this is
so powerful, verses 12 and 13,
00:52:53.00\00:52:54.84
notice this.
00:52:54.84\00:52:55.94
Seeing then we have such
hope, we use great boldness of
00:52:55.94\00:52:59.64
speech.
00:52:59.64\00:53:00.64
We're just letting it out.
00:53:00.64\00:53:01.78
Not like Moses did, where
he put a veil over, we're not
00:53:01.78\00:53:03.65
doing the veil thing.
00:53:03.65\00:53:04.65
We are no longer
doing the veil thing.
00:53:04.65\00:53:06.65
We are taking the people all
the way to Jesus, we're taking
00:53:06.65\00:53:08.78
them all the way to the glory,
we're not hiding anything.
00:53:08.78\00:53:12.05
>>DAVID: That hurt, he
smashed his elbow on the table.
00:53:12.05\00:53:15.26
And there's a little, there's
a suggestion here, I think, I
00:53:15.26\00:53:18.06
always thought there was a
suggestion here of the veils
00:53:18.06\00:53:21.26
in the sanctuary.
00:53:21.26\00:53:22.76
You have the veil that
separates the courtyard from
00:53:22.76\00:53:24.77
the holy and then the veil
that separates the holy from
00:53:24.77\00:53:26.77
the most holy and
those are lifted in Jesus.
00:53:26.77\00:53:29.27
The point of Jesus is access.
00:53:29.27\00:53:31.57
It's access, we go
through into the very presence.
00:53:31.57\00:53:36.28
>>JEFFERY: What's your take
on verse 18, beholding as in a
00:53:36.28\00:53:39.55
mirror the glory of the Lord?
00:53:39.55\00:53:41.65
>>DAVID: Which part?
00:53:41.65\00:53:42.85
The as in a mirror.
00:53:42.85\00:53:44.05
>>JEFFERY: Yeah, but we all
with unveiled face, beholding
00:53:44.05\00:53:48.09
as in a mirror the
glory of the Lord, are being
00:53:48.09\00:53:52.16
transformed.
00:53:52.16\00:53:53.36
>>DAVID: Well, I have a take
on that, but I'm not sure it's
00:53:53.36\00:53:55.63
right.
00:53:55.63\00:53:56.63
>>JEFFERY: Spit it out.
00:53:56.63\00:53:57.73
>>DAVID: Well, he's
using Moses as an illustration.
00:53:57.73\00:53:59.63
I'm looking at Moses has
a veil on his face, and the
00:53:59.63\00:54:01.64
verse just before that, or
is it two verses before that?
00:54:01.64\00:54:05.01
No, no, it's in that verse.
00:54:05.01\00:54:06.04
WE with unveiled face,
so rather than looking at a
00:54:06.04\00:54:08.94
veiled face, we look in a
mirror at an unveiled face.
00:54:08.94\00:54:13.15
Like, we're seeing
the thing as it is.
00:54:13.15\00:54:16.22
I think he's just
using it as an illustration.
00:54:16.22\00:54:18.22
>>JEFFERY: 'Cause I thought
the mirror meaning you're
00:54:18.22\00:54:20.22
looking at yourself.
00:54:20.22\00:54:21.29
>>DAVID: Well, that's
what I'm saying, like, as an
00:54:21.29\00:54:23.22
illustration of
without a veil or with a veil.
00:54:23.22\00:54:25.23
I could be wrong about that.
00:54:25.23\00:54:26.93
Some translations
say as through a glass.
00:54:26.93\00:54:29.36
So, maybe it means
through a glass darkly?
00:54:29.36\00:54:32.93
>>TY: Yeah, I think that
that's probably what it means.
00:54:32.93\00:54:38.37
Is it saying,
the point is clarity.
00:54:38.37\00:54:42.61
The context is saying, there
was misconception, there was
00:54:42.61\00:54:46.75
blindness, you're
reading the passages.
00:54:46.75\00:54:49.45
>>JEFFERY: The mirror points
back to you which defeats the
00:54:49.45\00:54:51.55
whole point.
00:54:51.55\00:54:52.52
>>DAVID: That's not
the point of the passage.
00:54:52.52\00:54:53.69
You know, this lesson that
we're on here is sola Christo
00:54:53.69\00:54:55.42
and it's just an example
of the ongoing reformation,
00:54:55.42\00:55:01.43
really, that Luther was onto
it, and if we think right now,
00:55:01.43\00:55:05.50
we've got it.
00:55:05.50\00:55:06.60
There is truth
yet to be revealed.
00:55:06.60\00:55:09.14
But we can say Luther and
then we can come this way.
00:55:09.14\00:55:11.54
We can still say there's a
way to go, but wherever we go in
00:55:11.54\00:55:14.91
the future, it cannot be,
yea, will not be, a negation of
00:55:14.91\00:55:18.15
where we've come from.
00:55:18.15\00:55:20.08
It's by faith, it's by
grace, it's by Jesus, it's by
00:55:20.08\00:55:23.42
scripture.
00:55:23.42\00:55:24.35
>>JEFFERY: It's not
less, it could be more.
00:55:24.35\00:55:26.42
>>DAVID: It could be more,
but it can't be less than this.
00:55:26.42\00:55:28.42
>>JAMES: Amen, amen.
00:55:28.42\00:55:29.42
Here you go.
00:55:29.42\00:55:30.59
>>DAVID: He gives
it back to me, finally.
00:55:30.59\00:55:34.03
>>TY: So much
clarity, so much clarity.
00:55:34.03\00:55:37.13
God is, God is good and
Paul is essentially telling us,
00:55:37.13\00:55:40.97
listen, you need to reread the
bible in the light of Christ,
00:55:40.97\00:55:44.24
that's what he's saying to us.
00:55:44.24\00:55:45.41
Okay, Jesus has arrived and
now, you need to get a clear
00:55:45.41\00:55:49.44
vision of him and you need
to go back to Genesis and you
00:55:49.44\00:55:52.25
need to move forward through
the whole narrative and it's
00:55:52.25\00:55:54.52
all gonna make a whole
lot more sense than it's ever
00:55:54.52\00:55:56.92
made.
00:55:56.92\00:55:58.15
>>DAVID: In the same way that
he said, I went back and read
00:55:58.15\00:56:00.96
my own faith with many
Christians, many of us need to
00:56:00.96\00:56:03.86
go back and learn our own faith.
00:56:03.86\00:56:05.59
>>JAMES: Didn't Paul go to the
desert somewhere or something,
00:56:05.59\00:56:07.23
what was that all about?
00:56:07.23\00:56:08.33
>>JEFFERY: Arabia.
00:56:08.33\00:56:09.06
>>JAMES: For how long?
00:56:09.06\00:56:10.17
>>TY: A long time, and
that's the end of our program.
00:56:10.17\00:56:11.93
[Music]
00:56:11.93\00:56:20.94
?usic]
00:56:24.01\00:56:24.35