[Music]
00:00:00.26\00:00:10.27
[Music]
00:00:10.27\00:00:21.05
>>TY: Hey, David, what's that
you have in your hand there?
00:00:21.05\00:00:23.35
>>DAVID: This, Ty
Gibson, is a guitar.
00:00:23.35\00:00:25.85
>>TY: It is a guitar.
00:00:25.85\00:00:27.02
>>DAVID: This is my travel
guitar because I don't like to
00:00:27.02\00:00:28.89
travel with my nice guitar.
00:00:28.89\00:00:30.46
>>TY: You have a nice one.
00:00:30.46\00:00:31.69
>>DAVID: I have a nice guitar
that my friend Josh our friend
00:00:31.69\00:00:32.89
Josh made me, so I don't
like to travel with that guitar.
00:00:32.89\00:00:36.53
So, this is a fairly
inexpensive guitar that I
00:00:36.53\00:00:39.10
bought so I can travel.
00:00:39.10\00:00:40.74
>>JAMES: What
are we talking about?
00:00:40.74\00:00:41.34
Let's get to the subject.
00:00:41.34\00:00:42.47
>>DAVID: So, the reason
it's at the table, this is not
00:00:42.47\00:00:44.24
gonna be Table Talk, James,
I hope you're ready for a song
00:00:44.24\00:00:46.24
service.
00:00:46.24\00:00:47.24
>>JAMES: What?
00:00:47.24\00:00:48.24
>>DAVID: Let's Table Sing.
00:00:48.24\00:00:49.24
We're going Table
Sing, and Jeffrey's gonna...
00:00:49.24\00:00:51.25
[Laughter]
00:00:51.25\00:00:52.25
>>JEFFERY: I got the cymbals.
00:00:52.25\00:00:53.28
>>DAVID: So, we're on
our second of the five...
00:00:53.28\00:00:55.25
>>TY: Wait a minute, don't
tell him what the topic is,
00:00:55.25\00:00:57.25
let's, share the song
with us and maybe those who are
00:00:57.25\00:01:01.99
sitting with us can
guess what our topic is.
00:01:01.99\00:01:06.23
>>ALL: ¤ Amazing grace, how
sweet the sound that saved ¤
00:01:06.23\00:01:15.90
¤ a wretch like me.
00:01:15.90\00:01:21.44
¤ I once was lost, but now, I'm
found, was blind, but now I ¤
00:01:21.44\00:01:33.39
¤ see.
00:01:33.39\00:01:35.06
>>TY: So, what's
the topic, David?
00:01:35.06\00:01:37.53
>>DAVID: Sola gracia.
00:01:37.53\00:01:39.59
Amazing grace.
00:01:39.59\00:01:41.50
I'm just gonna play,
no, I'm just kidding.
00:01:41.50\00:01:44.47
So, we're talking about grace.
00:01:44.47\00:01:45.53
>>TY: Yeah, so we're
moving through a series on the
00:01:45.53\00:01:49.40
reformation, this is called
the reformation series and
00:01:49.40\00:01:53.07
within the scope of the
series, we have 13 discussions
00:01:53.07\00:01:57.48
but 5 of them are devoted
specifically to the 5 solas
00:01:57.48\00:02:01.55
that are the key principles
and teachings that launch the
00:02:01.55\00:02:05.99
Protestant reformation.
00:02:05.99\00:02:07.59
In our previous session,
we did sola scriptura and now,
00:02:07.59\00:02:11.93
sola gracia.
00:02:11.93\00:02:13.56
This is our opportunity to
delve into what scripture has
00:02:13.56\00:02:17.10
to say and what the reformers
had to say about grace and the
00:02:17.10\00:02:21.37
role that it plays in our
salvation because it happens
00:02:21.37\00:02:24.91
to play, David, Jeffrey,
James, the role, not a role,
00:02:24.91\00:02:30.25
the role.
00:02:30.25\00:02:33.25
So, maybe we could launch
into this with a statement by
00:02:33.25\00:02:38.99
Luther that we will
agree with and disagree with.
00:02:38.99\00:02:42.02
Because, as we've said before,
these guys were in process
00:02:42.02\00:02:43.79
just like we are and
Luther said, quoting from Titus
00:02:43.79\00:02:49.63
chapter 3, verses 5-7, that
was his passage, he says, so,
00:02:49.63\00:02:54.14
here, Paul discards all
boasted free will, all human
00:02:54.14\00:03:02.84
virtue, righteousness,
and good works, end quote.
00:03:02.84\00:03:08.65
Yes and no.
00:03:08.65\00:03:09.65
>>JEFFERY: Or no and yes.
00:03:09.65\00:03:10.65
>>TY: No and yes,
go for it, Jeffrey.
00:03:10.65\00:03:12.65
>>JEFFERY: Well, the
first clause was he discards all
00:03:12.65\00:03:14.96
free will.
00:03:14.96\00:03:15.96
>>TY: Free will.
00:03:15.96\00:03:16.96
So, why would we
push back on that?
00:03:16.96\00:03:20.86
I mean, who are we to
even push back on Luther?
00:03:20.86\00:03:22.83
This is the great Dr.
Martin Luther, who launched the
00:03:22.83\00:03:25.10
Protestant reformation.
00:03:25.10\00:03:26.30
>>JAMES: Because, as we talked
about earlier, we recognize
00:03:26.30\00:03:29.64
that there are two
streams that come out of the
00:03:29.64\00:03:31.64
Protestant reformation.
00:03:31.64\00:03:32.71
There's the Calvinist
stream and then, there's the
00:03:32.71\00:03:34.78
Arminiest stream.
00:03:34.78\00:03:35.91
And Arminiest believed, he
read Calvin, but he believed
00:03:35.91\00:03:40.98
that there was a place for
free will, and Calvin did not.
00:03:40.98\00:03:45.39
Calvin was staunch, no
way, it's irresistible grace,
00:03:45.39\00:03:48.42
whereas compared to prevenient
grace, it's irresistible
00:03:48.42\00:03:51.23
grace, you can't resist it
because if you are choosing
00:03:51.23\00:03:53.70
something, that's a work.
00:03:53.70\00:03:54.83
>>TY: Yeah, you used a big
word there again that I asked
00:03:54.83\00:03:57.03
you to define
previously, prevenient grace.
00:03:57.03\00:04:01.04
What is prevenient?
00:04:01.04\00:04:03.10
>>JAMES: Oh, well, all they
need to do is go back to, no.
00:04:03.10\00:04:05.57
[Laughter]
00:04:05.57\00:04:07.28
It means to
precede, it precedes.
00:04:07.28\00:04:10.78
>>DAVID: Grace
that comes before.
00:04:10.78\00:04:11.98
>>JAMES: Any choice we make,
there's grace that actually is
00:04:11.98\00:04:14.38
what is motivating,
drawing us to make that choice.
00:04:14.38\00:04:17.05
>>TY: So, for absolutely
clarity, we don't believe that
00:04:17.05\00:04:19.92
there is either merit in
the exercise of free will, we're
00:04:19.92\00:04:26.06
with Calvin there, right?
00:04:26.06\00:04:27.03
We're with Luther
there, there's no merit in the
00:04:27.03\00:04:29.23
exercise of free will.
00:04:29.23\00:04:30.23
>>DAVID: There's
not merit in anything.
00:04:30.23\00:04:32.93
>>TY: Yeah, but we would go a
step further, they went a step
00:04:32.93\00:04:35.74
further, there's
not merit in anything.
00:04:35.74\00:04:38.17
We're saved by grace alone,
period, end of subject, then
00:04:38.17\00:04:41.54
you can elaborate from there.
00:04:41.54\00:04:43.45
But it's not
grace and anything else.
00:04:43.45\00:04:47.45
Grace is the solitary
means by which God saves.
00:04:47.45\00:04:51.79
So, we don't believe there's
merit in the exercise of free
00:04:51.79\00:04:53.96
will, but what James is
sharing with us, which he's
00:04:53.96\00:04:57.16
drawing from Jacob as Arminius
is the idea that even the
00:04:57.16\00:05:03.60
exercise of our will is
something that's occurring
00:05:03.60\00:05:08.00
because of a quality
of grace that precedes.
00:05:08.00\00:05:11.61
>>JEFFERY: You said he's
basing this quote you just
00:05:11.61\00:05:13.31
brought to us from Titus 3:5-8?
00:05:13.31\00:05:16.78
Is that what you said?
00:05:16.78\00:05:17.81
>>TY: Yeah, that's what
Luther's commentating on.
00:05:17.81\00:05:19.45
>>JEFFERY: Well, if you go
to the passage itself, I would
00:05:19.45\00:05:21.52
find cause to disagree with
that first clause against free
00:05:21.52\00:05:25.52
will, just here.
00:05:25.52\00:05:28.16
In verse 8, this is a faithful
saying, these things I want
00:05:28.16\00:05:30.16
you to affirm constantly, that
those who have believed in God
00:05:30.16\00:05:34.50
should be careful
to maintain good works.
00:05:34.50\00:05:37.70
So, here, there's the act,
there's the volitional act of
00:05:37.70\00:05:40.67
believing.
00:05:40.67\00:05:41.67
So, I think that...
00:05:41.67\00:05:42.90
>>TY: And there's an
admonishment to do it.
00:05:42.90\00:05:45.77
>>JEFFERY: Meaning you should,
meaning it's possible for you
00:05:45.77\00:05:49.01
not to.
00:05:49.01\00:05:50.08
Why would you admonish
to do something if it wasn't
00:05:50.08\00:05:53.28
possible not to.
00:05:53.28\00:05:55.65
So, it implies the
ability to exercise free will.
00:05:55.65\00:05:59.62
>>TY: But again, even that
ability to exercise free will,
00:05:59.62\00:06:02.86
according to Arminius,
according to John Wesley, and
00:06:02.86\00:06:06.43
we're kind of in that
Protestant strain ourselves,
00:06:06.43\00:06:09.70
even that exercise of
free will is something that's
00:06:09.70\00:06:14.04
occurring in the human
being because of the grace that
00:06:14.04\00:06:17.07
precedes even the
exercise of free will.
00:06:17.07\00:06:20.58
>>JAMES: And that's in
the context also, so if you go
00:06:20.58\00:06:22.41
back now, of course, we know
chapter divisions came later.
00:06:22.41\00:06:24.88
If you go back to Titus
2:11, for the grace of God that
00:06:24.88\00:06:28.58
brings salvation has
appeared unto all men.
00:06:28.58\00:06:31.32
That was the argument
of Jacobus Arminius, it is
00:06:31.32\00:06:35.32
appeared to all men, it
comes to all men, it's not
00:06:35.32\00:06:37.59
conditional, or we should say,
unconditional or irresistible,
00:06:37.59\00:06:42.16
it actually is something that
is prevenient and therefore,
00:06:42.16\00:06:44.93
pervades and precedes
and goes forth to everyone.
00:06:44.93\00:06:48.34
And then, he goes on in
chapter 3 and you look here,
00:06:48.34\00:06:51.67
there's a couple of verses
in between, and I'm just gonna
00:06:51.67\00:06:54.58
highlight these two, verse
4, but after the kindness and
00:06:54.58\00:06:57.71
love of our Savior toward man
appeared, that's the world in
00:06:57.71\00:07:01.42
general, verse 6, which
was shed upon us abundantly
00:07:01.42\00:07:05.15
through our Lord Jesus Christ
that being justified by his
00:07:05.15\00:07:06.65
grace, we should be made
heirs according to the hope of
00:07:06.65\00:07:11.13
eternal life.
00:07:11.13\00:07:12.46
This is a faithful saying.
00:07:12.46\00:07:14.20
Now, the phrase, this is
a faithful saying, and these
00:07:14.20\00:07:17.40
things I will that thou
are from constantly, that, that
00:07:17.40\00:07:20.40
phrase right there, that
word right there, that means so
00:07:20.40\00:07:23.64
that or in order that.
00:07:23.64\00:07:25.14
What is about to be said
in verse 8 is based on what's
00:07:25.14\00:07:28.94
already been said in chapter
2, verse 11, all the way to
00:07:28.94\00:07:32.98
chapter 3 and verse 7.
00:07:32.98\00:07:36.22
>>TY: Make that clearer,
thought, what do you mean by
00:07:36.22\00:07:37.55
that?
00:07:37.55\00:07:38.72
>>JAMES: So, basically, the
emphasis that Paul is giving
00:07:38.72\00:07:40.19
in Titus is, it's grace,
grace, grace, grace, grace.
00:07:40.19\00:07:44.63
And you should affirm that
constantly so that you would
00:07:44.63\00:07:48.36
maintain good works.
00:07:48.36\00:07:49.46
Good works are manifest
by affirming constantly that
00:07:49.46\00:07:52.90
you're saved by grace, you're
saved by grace, you're saved
00:07:52.90\00:07:54.90
by grace.
00:07:54.90\00:07:55.90
>>TY: That is so powerful.
00:07:55.90\00:07:57.11
So, good works don't emerge
out of emphasizing good works.
00:07:57.11\00:08:00.24
>>JEFFERY: They're a
byproduct of something else.
00:08:00.24\00:08:02.64
>>TY: Good works is
a byproduct of grace.
00:08:02.64\00:08:05.45
So, emphasize grace
if you want good works.
00:08:05.45\00:08:08.38
>>DAVID: One of the
conversations that the
00:08:08.38\00:08:10.39
Christian church has
historically wrestled with and
00:08:10.39\00:08:13.15
tried to get its understanding
wrapped around is the
00:08:13.15\00:08:16.02
relationship of
faith with works.
00:08:16.02\00:08:18.26
But not so much with grace
and works because those are
00:08:18.26\00:08:23.13
incommencery, they
are mutually exclusive.
00:08:23.13\00:08:27.44
>>TY: And we're not
saved by grace and works.
00:08:27.44\00:08:28.87
>>DAVID: That doesn't even
make sense, it's like talking
00:08:28.87\00:08:30.54
about a square circle, right?
00:08:30.54\00:08:31.97
That's not a thing.
00:08:31.97\00:08:34.38
If there's a wage, if
there's a merit, if there's some
00:08:34.38\00:08:36.08
credit, something that is
owed to me, then it can't be by
00:08:36.08\00:08:40.58
grace.
00:08:40.58\00:08:41.58
Yeah, that's right.
00:08:41.58\00:08:42.75
We can talk about, we will
talk about the relationship of
00:08:42.75\00:08:45.35
faith with works but
we're not saved by faith.
00:08:45.35\00:08:49.52
Right?
00:08:49.52\00:08:50.56
We're saved
through faith by grace.
00:08:50.56\00:08:54.93
Now, there is a sense in which
we're saved by God's faith and
00:08:54.93\00:08:58.07
his faithfulness,
which we'll get to.
00:08:58.07\00:09:00.07
>>JEFFERY: That says faith
is the agency through which we
00:09:00.07\00:09:03.00
access the
thing, which is grace.
00:09:03.00\00:09:05.47
>>DAVID: The thing is grace.
00:09:05.47\00:09:06.78
>>TY: So, faith is like
the hands that are grabbing at,
00:09:06.78\00:09:09.24
laying hold of
it, apprehending it.
00:09:09.24\00:09:11.25
>>DAVID: But this has to be an
objective reality that already
00:09:11.25\00:09:14.48
exists somewhere, in this
case, in the heart of God as
00:09:14.48\00:09:19.65
manifested in
Christ's death on Calvary.
00:09:19.65\00:09:22.59
If that is not complete in
and of itself, then we got a
00:09:22.59\00:09:26.59
problem.
00:09:26.59\00:09:27.86
How do we access it?
00:09:27.86\00:09:28.90
That's another question.
00:09:28.90\00:09:30.00
That is the thing by which
we are made right with God.
00:09:30.00\00:09:33.67
>>JAMES: Romans 11:6.
00:09:33.67\00:09:34.87
If it's of works, it's no
more of grace, if it's of grace,
00:09:34.87\00:09:38.97
it's no more of works.
00:09:38.97\00:09:39.97
It's one or the other, right.
00:09:39.97\00:09:41.38
>>TY: One of the reformers,
and I don't remember which
00:09:41.38\00:09:43.38
one, maybe one of you will
remember, framed it like this,
00:09:43.38\00:09:47.42
essentially that to put forth
any works, having anything to
00:09:47.42\00:09:53.66
do with salvation,
earning salvation is actually an
00:09:53.66\00:09:58.86
insult to God.
00:09:58.86\00:10:02.33
Similar to me giving you a
gift and then you handing me
00:10:02.33\00:10:08.07
cash.
00:10:08.07\00:10:10.07
If I say to you, happy
birthday, James, and I give
00:10:10.07\00:10:15.28
you a gift, and you pull out
a $100 bill 'cause it's quite a
00:10:15.28\00:10:18.78
significant gift I've
given you, you hand me that $100
00:10:18.78\00:10:21.22
bill, I'm gonna
feel, how am I gonna feel?
00:10:21.22\00:10:24.82
I'm gonna feel insulted
because you're basically
00:10:24.82\00:10:28.32
turning the gift
into a transaction.
00:10:28.32\00:10:34.30
>>DAVID: I'll tell you a
funny story on that very point.
00:10:34.30\00:10:36.23
So, probably, years ago now,
maybe 12 years ago or 10 years
00:10:36.23\00:10:40.04
ago, I was in my home and a
pastoral colleague of mine had
00:10:40.04\00:10:44.31
come to visit and he was
wanting to borrow a lens to go
00:10:44.31\00:10:48.54
to Africa, he was going on
a trip to Africa and I love my
00:10:48.54\00:10:50.85
photography.
00:10:50.85\00:10:51.85
So, he was gonna borrow a lens.
00:10:51.85\00:10:52.98
The problem was that I had
this really nice lens that I
00:10:52.98\00:10:55.68
was gonna let him borrow,
but the camera that he had, I
00:10:55.68\00:10:57.69
said, man, this camera is
not capturing, yeah, it's just
00:10:57.69\00:11:00.82
not, you need a better camera.
00:11:00.82\00:11:02.39
Oh, I can't afford
it, the trip and this.
00:11:02.39\00:11:04.76
And then, the Spirit just came
upon me and said, 'cause I had
00:11:04.76\00:11:07.23
at that point 3 cameras,
right, I had just bought a new
00:11:07.23\00:11:09.23
camera, and I have a backup
camera and I had my old camera
00:11:09.23\00:11:11.23
that I was gonna sell.
00:11:11.23\00:11:12.37
And it wasn't, you know, I
mean, it would've been worth
00:11:12.37\00:11:14.44
maybe, I dunno $700, $800.
00:11:14.44\00:11:15.97
Not a huge amount of money,
but a significant amount of
00:11:15.97\00:11:17.97
money.
00:11:17.97\00:11:19.57
And the Spirit just impresses
me and says, David, give Royce
00:11:19.57\00:11:23.24
your camera.
00:11:23.24\00:11:25.11
And so, I'm like,
man, that's a great idea.
00:11:25.11\00:11:26.88
So, I'm like, wait right here.
00:11:26.88\00:11:29.18
So, I go to my room, get my
box, it's all boxed up 'cause
00:11:29.18\00:11:31.75
I'm gonna sell it.
00:11:31.75\00:11:32.95
And I bring it out and I say,
here's your new camera, this
00:11:32.95\00:11:36.89
will take great
pictures with this lens.
00:11:36.89\00:11:39.06
And he's like, what is this?
00:11:39.06\00:11:40.26
I said, I was gonna sell this,
I've got two other cameras,
00:11:40.26\00:11:43.33
this is my
backup, you can have it.
00:11:43.33\00:11:46.20
And you should've just seen
him, just instantly, oh, no,
00:11:46.20\00:11:48.37
no, I can't, no, I couldn't
accept this, he just goes into
00:11:48.37\00:11:50.51
this whole thing, I can't
accept that, this makes me
00:11:50.51\00:11:52.47
uncomfortable,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:52.47\00:11:54.78
So, then, I say to him, the
Spirit just gave me wisdom, I
00:11:54.78\00:11:58.05
say to him, you're
planning on being saved are you?
00:11:58.05\00:12:01.85
And he's just
like, what do you mean?
00:12:01.85\00:12:05.25
What do you mean?
00:12:05.25\00:12:06.39
And I say, listen, if you
can't accept a camera that's
00:12:06.39\00:12:08.46
worth a few hundred dollars,
how are you gonna accept a
00:12:08.46\00:12:11.39
gift of inestimatable
value, incalculable value?
00:12:11.39\00:12:15.90
And you know what he said?
00:12:15.90\00:12:16.90
Next three words?
00:12:16.90\00:12:17.73
Gimme that
camera. Gimme the camera.
00:12:17.73\00:12:18.83
[Laughter]
00:12:18.83\00:12:20.30
Give te the
camera. And he took it.
00:12:20.30\00:12:22.60
>>JAMES: And hey, that's what
Ty said, though, what I really
00:12:22.60\00:12:24.47
wanna emphasize, I mean, not
emphasize, but just bring out
00:12:24.47\00:12:26.57
something here that I think
is really significant in both
00:12:26.57\00:12:28.44
these stories, what would the
appropriate response be after
00:12:28.44\00:12:33.05
you say yes?
00:12:33.05\00:12:33.95
What would be the
appropriate response?
00:12:33.95\00:12:35.05
>>DAVID: Take some amazing
photos and send me a gift.
00:12:35.05\00:12:37.05
>>JAMES: No, the
immediate response.
00:12:37.05\00:12:38.45
>>DAVID: Oh,
thankfulness, appreciation.
00:12:38.45\00:12:40.89
>>JAMES: Gratitude, thank you.
00:12:40.89\00:12:43.39
And that whole process that
you've gone through, okay, the
00:12:43.39\00:12:46.93
gift is given, thank
you, also, puts an image or an
00:12:46.93\00:12:54.27
understanding in the mind
toward that person, toward
00:12:54.27\00:12:57.34
that person so that as you
move on through life, you have
00:12:57.34\00:13:01.31
this image, this way that
you're looking at that person
00:13:01.31\00:13:04.81
that is reflected in the way
you relate to that person and
00:13:04.81\00:13:06.88
the way you relate to others
in relation to that person,
00:13:06.88\00:13:09.25
you know what I'm saying?
00:13:09.25\00:13:10.35
>>JEFFERY: It would also
reflect the way you relate to
00:13:10.35\00:13:11.89
the gift.
00:13:11.89\00:13:13.46
He could relate to the
way you relate to the gift.
00:13:13.46\00:13:15.42
You receive this valuable
thing that you didn't earn,
00:13:15.42\00:13:19.86
and your sense of gratitude
for this gift, you would value
00:13:19.86\00:13:22.90
this gift that you received.
00:13:22.90\00:13:25.30
See what I mean?
00:13:25.30\00:13:26.60
So, it would be
the same with grace.
00:13:26.60\00:13:28.74
>>JAMES: I wanna know how
that guy relates to you, you see
00:13:28.74\00:13:30.41
what I'm saying?
00:13:30.41\00:13:31.07
Well, so going down the road.
00:13:31.07\00:13:33.14
>>DAVID: Fascinatingly, when
he comes back from his trip,
00:13:33.14\00:13:36.01
oh, he's just like, oh, you
gotta see these photos and I
00:13:36.01\00:13:37.91
had so much joy in
seeing his photographs.
00:13:37.91\00:13:43.35
>>TY: It's
interesting, James....
00:13:43.35\00:13:44.92
>>DAVID: It brought more
joy to me than the 500 or 600 or
00:13:44.92\00:13:47.66
$700 that I
would've got for that camera.
00:13:47.66\00:13:49.82
Was way better for him to walk
out, he was going, look what I
00:13:49.82\00:13:52.53
got.
00:13:52.53\00:13:54.10
This was given to me.
00:13:54.10\00:13:56.06
It's amazing.
00:13:56.06\00:13:57.33
>>TY: Beautiful.
00:13:57.33\00:13:58.47
It's interesting that you
would say it changes the way
00:13:58.47\00:14:02.27
the receiver of the gift sees
the giver because the reason
00:14:02.27\00:14:07.28
that's interesting to me is
because the word grace in the
00:14:07.28\00:14:10.48
New Testament is the Greek
word charas from which we get
00:14:10.48\00:14:15.65
words like
charismatic and charisma.
00:14:15.65\00:14:19.55
So, literally, when the
bible says, we're saved by God's
00:14:19.55\00:14:23.22
grace, it's saying, we're
saved by God's charisma in the
00:14:23.22\00:14:29.90
sense of God's character.
00:14:29.90\00:14:32.07
God is who he is and because
God is who he is, he relates
00:14:32.07\00:14:35.90
to us according to his
character, according to his
00:14:35.90\00:14:41.38
identity.
00:14:41.38\00:14:42.48
And it's the exertion of
God's good character upon us
00:14:42.48\00:14:48.25
undeserving that causes us to
form a new image of him in our
00:14:48.25\00:14:52.45
minds where we
begin responding to him.
00:14:52.45\00:14:55.76
>>JEFFERY: Isn't that what
Romans is, the goodness of God
00:14:55.76\00:14:57.66
leads us to repentance.
00:14:57.66\00:15:00.23
>>TY: Yeah, Romans 2.
00:15:00.23\00:15:01.40
Yeah.
00:15:01.40\00:15:02.60
>>DAVID: When I think about
this, I think, the first verse
00:15:02.60\00:15:05.50
that comes to my mind when
we talk about sola gracia is
00:15:05.50\00:15:07.57
Ephesians 2.
00:15:07.57\00:15:09.67
Ephesians 2, and I'm sure
there are many other verses
00:15:09.67\00:15:12.57
that, you know, I know there
are hundreds of other verses
00:15:12.57\00:15:14.88
that you could go to.
00:15:14.88\00:15:15.91
Titus, great, Titus 2.
00:15:15.91\00:15:18.48
I love Ephesians 2, for by
grace, you have been saved, I
00:15:18.48\00:15:24.29
love the
conclusive nature of that.
00:15:24.29\00:15:28.82
You might make it, you could.
00:15:28.82\00:15:31.83
It's possible,
there's some potential here.
00:15:31.83\00:15:34.83
For by grace you are saved
through faith, and that not of
00:15:34.83\00:15:39.77
yourselves.
00:15:39.77\00:15:41.34
Not of works, lest any man
should boast, it's a gift of
00:15:41.34\00:15:43.37
God, not of works.
00:15:43.37\00:15:44.91
>>TY: My version says have been.
00:15:44.91\00:15:46.31
>>DAVID: Have been,
exactly, you have been.
00:15:46.31\00:15:48.78
>>JAMES: I like Ephesians
2 also, but I like a previous
00:15:48.78\00:15:51.88
verse as much or better than
that one, because I know that
00:15:51.88\00:15:55.52
one says, for by grace you've
been saved and that not of
00:15:55.52\00:15:57.79
yourselves, it, the faith
is the gift of God, whereas in
00:15:57.79\00:16:01.72
verse 5, it says, and the
reason that I love it, the
00:16:01.72\00:16:05.13
whole chapter, but the
reason I love this is because,
00:16:05.13\00:16:07.50
Ephesians 2 starts with how
absolutely, totally depraved
00:16:07.50\00:16:12.10
and wretched and lost we
are, we're absolutely lost and
00:16:12.10\00:16:14.60
depraved, while
you were this way.
00:16:14.60\00:16:17.64
While you were, yes.
00:16:17.64\00:16:19.47
Even when we were dead in
sin, he quickened us together.
00:16:19.47\00:16:22.88
That's prevenient
grace, in my understanding.
00:16:22.88\00:16:25.51
He quickened us together,
with Christ, by grace you are
00:16:25.51\00:16:28.18
saved.
00:16:28.18\00:16:29.32
And there's more to it
than that, much more to it than
00:16:29.32\00:16:30.92
that, because you have this
objective, you know, picture
00:16:30.92\00:16:34.86
of what God has done for us
in Christ, and then, he goes on
00:16:34.86\00:16:38.56
to break that down in, you
know, the rest of the verses.
00:16:38.56\00:16:41.46
So, same with Titus.
00:16:41.46\00:16:42.90
I love the fact that
Titus is not just one verse.
00:16:42.90\00:16:45.10
There's a score of
verses there that contrast God's
00:16:45.10\00:16:49.10
grace, it just doesn't
come out of thin air, because
00:16:49.10\00:16:51.37
that's sometimes what we do.
00:16:51.37\00:16:53.54
Oh, oh, no, grace has the
worst, it is accompanied with
00:16:53.54\00:16:59.11
the worst images of
humanity that you can find in
00:16:59.11\00:17:03.59
scripture, the worst
images, and there's grace.
00:17:03.59\00:17:05.92
Find the most
wretched and there's grace.
00:17:05.92\00:17:08.12
That's where grace companies,
that's where you find grace,
00:17:08.12\00:17:10.16
in the bible,
that's where you find it.
00:17:10.16\00:17:11.89
I love that.
00:17:11.89\00:17:12.93
>>DAVID: Look at who
grace is hanging out with.
00:17:12.93\00:17:14.46
>>JAMES: Yes.
00:17:14.46\00:17:15.60
Christ exemplifies that.
00:17:15.60\00:17:16.87
Christ exemplified that.
00:17:16.87\00:17:18.40
>>TY: We have to
take a break, but...
00:17:18.40\00:17:20.97
>>DAVID: I hate these breaks.
00:17:20.97\00:17:23.94
>>TY: Well, we have to take
the breaks, I don't know why.
00:17:23.94\00:17:25.67
Something goes on
during the breaks.
00:17:25.67\00:17:27.41
>>DAVID: No, I like that.
00:17:27.41\00:17:28.74
>>TY: Something happen during
the breaks, I don't know what
00:17:28.74\00:17:30.18
it is.
00:17:30.18\00:17:31.48
Alright, take a
break, we'll come right back.
00:17:31.48\00:17:33.82
[Music]
00:17:33.82\00:17:44.93
>>The bible is a big book.
00:17:44.93\00:17:46.73
It's composed of 66 smaller
books, written by more than 40
00:17:46.73\00:17:51.33
different authors.
00:17:51.33\00:17:53.17
It's easy to get bogged
down in all the genealogies,
00:17:53.17\00:17:56.64
ancient history and
intersecting characters with
00:17:56.64\00:17:59.61
unpronounceable names.
00:17:59.61\00:18:01.78
And yet, the bible is full
of rich and powerful truths that
00:18:01.78\00:18:06.21
all of us need to understand.
00:18:06.21\00:18:08.92
Wouldn't you love to have
an experienced tour guide take
00:18:08.92\00:18:12.39
you on a step-by-step journey
through some of the most vital
00:18:12.39\00:18:16.12
and beautiful truths
contained in the bible?
00:18:16.12\00:18:18.89
Well, now, it's here.
00:18:18.89\00:18:20.50
It's called Truth Link.
00:18:20.50\00:18:22.80
Truth Link is a groundbreaking
new series of easy to
00:18:22.80\00:18:26.70
understand bible study
guides that thousands of people
00:18:26.70\00:18:31.17
around the world
are raving about.
00:18:31.17\00:18:33.71
Why all the excitement?
00:18:33.71\00:18:35.31
Because Truth Link
systematically unfolds 27 life
00:18:35.31\00:18:40.88
transforming biblical
topics, but not as a list of dry
00:18:40.88\00:18:46.02
theological facts.
00:18:46.02\00:18:47.62
Rather, Truth Link takes
you on an engaging, biblical
00:18:47.62\00:18:52.16
expedition, demonstrating
how every truth of scripture
00:18:52.16\00:18:56.50
reveals some facet of
God's beautiful character.
00:18:56.50\00:19:01.30
Truth Link isn't just
information, it's a spiritual
00:19:01.30\00:19:05.24
journey that will
radically impact your life.
00:19:05.24\00:19:08.81
We would really love for
you to have these bible study
00:19:08.81\00:19:12.15
guides because we know
they will be a blessing to you.
00:19:12.15\00:19:16.82
You can get them by visiting
truthlink.org or by calling
00:19:16.82\00:19:21.86
541-988-3333.
00:19:21.86\00:19:27.13
[Music]
00:19:27.13\00:19:34.70
>>TY: So, the reformers
said that salvation is by grace
00:19:34.70\00:19:38.57
alone, and in saying that,
they left no wiggle room for
00:19:38.57\00:19:43.91
merit whatsoever.
00:19:43.91\00:19:46.18
This merit idea, this idea
that a human being, by his or
00:19:46.18\00:19:51.32
her actions somehow earns
something with God, standing
00:19:51.32\00:19:56.59
position, has a claim,
what Paul calls wages, actually,
00:19:56.59\00:20:01.76
says, don't call that grace,
that's wages, that's a job,
00:20:01.76\00:20:04.70
and you're not qualified for
that job, so don't even apply.
00:20:04.70\00:20:08.50
But this idea of merit
has a horrible defect on our
00:20:08.50\00:20:16.11
perception of God's character.
00:20:16.11\00:20:18.51
And it produces, in human
beings, a constant sense of
00:20:18.51\00:20:21.92
anxiety to earn God's favor,
to do something to get right
00:20:21.92\00:20:27.29
with God in order to be
in a position that God isn't
00:20:27.29\00:20:32.56
himself willing to confer
upon us simply because of the
00:20:32.56\00:20:35.46
goodness of his heart.
00:20:35.46\00:20:37.07
And the entire Protestant
reformation was based upon the
00:20:37.07\00:20:41.74
reformers pushing
back on this idea of merit.
00:20:41.74\00:20:44.47
With Luther, it was
indulgences that you could
00:20:44.47\00:20:46.91
actually pay money to the
church, ultimately the idea
00:20:46.91\00:20:50.85
was to God through the church,
and God is going to lessen
00:20:50.85\00:20:55.15
your time in purgatory or
the time of your relatives or
00:20:55.15\00:20:58.99
loved ones in purgatory.
00:20:58.99\00:21:00.72
This is the most diabolical
picture of God imaginable and
00:21:00.72\00:21:06.76
it's not just the Roman
church that was teaching it or
00:21:06.76\00:21:11.40
promoting it.
00:21:11.40\00:21:12.57
The only reason the Roman
church could teach and promote
00:21:12.57\00:21:15.00
it is because it's in us, it's
in us, and I don't know what
00:21:15.00\00:21:20.64
you guys think of this, but
I have a hunch that one of the
00:21:20.64\00:21:24.41
reasons it's in us is because
grace necessarily requires
00:21:24.41\00:21:31.82
humility.
00:21:31.82\00:21:33.32
To receive salvation purely
as a gift puts gratitude in my
00:21:33.32\00:21:39.83
heart for the giver, but
there's a sense in which it
00:21:39.83\00:21:42.36
puts my head down in humility,
because I am in utter need.
00:21:42.36\00:21:49.74
It's an admission.
00:21:49.74\00:21:50.94
>>JEFFERY: Somebody put it
to me, they said, it's going on
00:21:50.94\00:21:54.51
record against yourself.
00:21:54.51\00:21:56.28
It's against yourself, it's
recognizing, I have nothing.
00:21:56.28\00:22:01.75
>>DAVID: This is Peter in
the boat when it's filling with
00:22:01.75\00:22:05.45
fish, depart from me,
Lord, I am a sinful man.
00:22:05.45\00:22:08.72
It's, why are you
still sticking around?
00:22:08.72\00:22:12.99
I am, you know what I
am, what's going on there?
00:22:12.99\00:22:16.56
Why are you still here?
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.17
Woman, where are your accusers?
00:22:18.17\00:22:20.77
Right?
00:22:20.77\00:22:24.61
Sorry, James, I was
talking there, what did you say?
00:22:24.61\00:22:26.11
>>JAMES: And yet, he's
clinging to his feet, isn't
00:22:26.11\00:22:27.24
he?
00:22:27.24\00:22:28.18
I mean, that's just
an incredible picture.
00:22:28.18\00:22:30.25
>>DAVID: And then, Jesus tells
the parable, the one who says,
00:22:30.25\00:22:33.28
I'm glad I'm not like this
fellow, you know, and then,
00:22:33.28\00:22:36.35
the publican who won't
even, smiting his breast.
00:22:36.35\00:22:40.46
>>TY: It's like, depart
from me, but I hope you don't.
00:22:40.46\00:22:43.46
>>JAMES: Jacob, wrestling.
00:22:43.46\00:22:44.79
I'm not letting you
go 'til you bless me.
00:22:44.79\00:22:46.56
>>DAVID: Because he
knew that was the only way.
00:22:46.56\00:22:48.43
>>TY: So, legalism
as opposed to grace.
00:22:48.43\00:22:51.83
Legalism, in a
sense, is really, a kind of
00:22:51.83\00:22:56.34
self-deceiving way by which
we retain self as the center,
00:22:56.34\00:23:01.11
masquerading as
reverence for God.
00:23:01.11\00:23:04.15
>>DAVID: Okay, you've gotta
unpack that, because that's
00:23:04.15\00:23:05.35
huge.
00:23:05.35\00:23:06.55
>>TY: Yeah, so, if there's
any purchasing power in my deeds
00:23:06.55\00:23:12.02
for salvation, there's a
sense in which, at least on a
00:23:12.02\00:23:14.69
subconscious
level, that God owes me.
00:23:14.69\00:23:17.46
God owes me something and
you need to pay up because I've
00:23:17.46\00:23:22.56
done what I was supposed
to do, now you need to give me
00:23:22.56\00:23:25.97
what is due to me,
there's pride in that.
00:23:25.97\00:23:29.57
Self is retained as
the center in that system.
00:23:29.57\00:23:34.28
>>DAVID: You've got something,
James, and then, I'm gonna
00:23:34.28\00:23:36.34
read a quotation from
an article I read recently.
00:23:36.34\00:23:39.11
>>JAMES: Alright, Matthew
chapter 7, just, you may not
00:23:39.11\00:23:41.22
have read this verse this way
before, but I just wanna read
00:23:41.22\00:23:44.92
it to you again and see if
you're seeing it in the way
00:23:44.92\00:23:47.99
that Ty just explained it.
00:23:47.99\00:23:49.36
Not everyone, Matthew 7:21,
not everyone that says unto
00:23:49.36\00:23:52.16
me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven
00:23:52.16\00:23:55.96
that he that does the will
of my Father which is in heaven.
00:23:55.96\00:23:58.37
So, these are people that
believed in God, they called
00:23:58.37\00:24:00.54
him Lord.
00:24:00.54\00:24:01.74
Many will say unto me in
that day, many will say unto me,
00:24:01.74\00:24:04.77
Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name, in thy
00:24:04.77\00:24:08.84
name cast out devils, in
my name done many, what's the
00:24:08.84\00:24:12.81
next word?
00:24:12.81\00:24:13.95
Works.
00:24:13.95\00:24:15.38
Then, I will profess unto
them, I never knew you, which
00:24:15.38\00:24:18.19
means they never knew him.
00:24:18.19\00:24:20.06
If he never, they didn't
know him, depart from me.
00:24:20.06\00:24:23.26
>>DAVID: There's
not an intimacy there.
00:24:23.26\00:24:24.46
>>JAMES: There's not
an understanding of the
00:24:24.46\00:24:26.43
character, but there's works.
00:24:26.43\00:24:28.00
There's works, and they're
saying these works, you owe
00:24:28.00\00:24:30.13
me, how come, you owe me, just
the same point you're making
00:24:30.13\00:24:34.44
there.
00:24:34.44\00:24:35.34
You owe me.
00:24:35.34\00:24:36.50
So, there's, and Jesus here
is speaking to the religious
00:24:36.50\00:24:38.17
people of his time, the
religious leaders of his time.
00:24:38.17\00:24:40.54
>>DAVID: Now, that's a
great way to see that text.
00:24:40.54\00:24:41.98
Clearly, if you just read
that to someone, and they didn't
00:24:41.98\00:24:45.31
even know about scripture
as such, you would say, what's
00:24:45.31\00:24:48.65
going on here relationally,
and they would say, well,
00:24:48.65\00:24:50.99
these people feel like
they're entitled to something.
00:24:50.99\00:24:53.05
I was gonna read this
quotation, but you go.
00:24:53.05\00:24:55.99
'Cause it's on that very
point, so if you're gonna stay
00:24:55.99\00:24:57.96
on that point, do it.
00:24:57.96\00:24:59.03
>>JEFFERY: It's
actually a low view of God.
00:24:59.03\00:25:02.20
It's a low view of God's law.
00:25:02.20\00:25:05.43
Because those who
are convinced that it is
00:25:05.43\00:25:09.87
impossible for them to bring
any merit to the table or to
00:25:09.87\00:25:15.84
deserve any favor are those
who have a low view of God,
00:25:15.84\00:25:20.52
right?
00:25:20.52\00:25:21.58
Those who think it's
impossible have a high view of
00:25:21.58\00:25:24.19
God, and that's why there's
not even an attempt, but the
00:25:24.19\00:25:27.29
fact that we would even
attempt to be justified by
00:25:27.29\00:25:29.49
works implies that we have a
low view of God, a low view of
00:25:29.49\00:25:34.20
his law that we would even
think that we could, yeah, of
00:25:34.20\00:25:36.73
his holiness.
00:25:36.73\00:25:38.63
>>DAVID: And a higher than
is appropriate view of our own,
00:25:38.63\00:25:42.27
our own moral standing.
00:25:42.27\00:25:44.07
>>JEFFERY: Yeah, 'cause I
always thought legalism to be
00:25:44.07\00:25:46.34
a fixation on righteousness.
00:25:46.34\00:25:48.68
I always thought legalism
to be, it's an overemphasis on
00:25:48.68\00:25:52.81
righteousness.
00:25:52.81\00:25:53.75
Now, I think it's an
underemphasis, it's an
00:25:53.75\00:25:55.88
underemphasis.
00:25:55.88\00:25:57.85
Because if it was a high
view of righteousness, legalism
00:25:57.85\00:26:01.76
would never show it's face.
00:26:01.76\00:26:03.66
It would never even...
00:26:03.66\00:26:05.33
>>TY: You'd have to modify
the standard so that you can
00:26:05.33\00:26:06.96
imagine you can meet it.
00:26:06.96\00:26:08.76
>>JAMES: Yes, yes, and that's
why Jesus came and said, but I
00:26:08.76\00:26:11.67
tell you, you've
heard, but I tell you.
00:26:11.67\00:26:13.34
You've heard by I tell you.
00:26:13.34\00:26:14.44
>>JEFFERY: You're thinking
it's out here, but it's up
00:26:14.44\00:26:15.50
here.
00:26:15.50\00:26:16.57
>>DAVID: So, this is an
article that I read titled,
00:26:16.57\00:26:18.64
Justification, the Catholic
Protestant Argument Over
00:26:18.64\00:26:21.44
Justification by a bunch
of fellows, Guisler, McKenzie,
00:26:21.44\00:26:24.28
and Miller, and just listen
to this, much criticism of the
00:26:24.28\00:26:27.05
Catholic view of justification
revolves around the concept of
00:26:27.05\00:26:29.88
merit that was elevated by the
counsel of Trent to the status
00:26:29.88\00:26:33.92
of infallible dogma.
00:26:33.92\00:26:35.86
While Catholics wish to remind
us that the whole doctrine of
00:26:35.86\00:26:39.13
merit should be viewed in
the context of grace, they
00:26:39.13\00:26:42.20
overlook the fact that
scripture teaches that grace
00:26:42.20\00:26:44.67
and meritorious works
are mutually exclusive, then
00:26:44.67\00:26:48.17
quotes Romans 11:6,
which you quoted earlier.
00:26:48.17\00:26:50.47
The New Testament
clearly speaks against obtaining
00:26:50.47\00:26:53.44
salvation as a reward
or a wage for work done.
00:26:53.44\00:26:57.51
For the scriptures insist
that gifts cannot be worked for,
00:26:57.51\00:27:00.22
only wages can, Romans 4:4-5.
00:27:00.22\00:27:03.72
Grace means unmerited favor
and reward based on works is
00:27:03.72\00:27:08.49
merited, hence grace and works
are no more coherent than is
00:27:08.49\00:27:13.06
unmerited merit.
00:27:13.06\00:27:15.40
Last one here.
00:27:15.40\00:27:17.00
Trent made it dogma that by
his good works, the justified
00:27:17.00\00:27:21.17
man really acquires a claim.
00:27:21.17\00:27:24.41
Trent makes this dogma,
counsel of Trent, in response
00:27:24.41\00:27:27.74
to the Protestant reformation.
00:27:27.74\00:27:29.38
By his good works, the
justified man really acquires
00:27:29.38\00:27:32.58
a claim to supernatural reward
from God and it is precisely
00:27:32.58\00:27:37.45
here, the article says, that
the Catholics and Evangelicals
00:27:37.45\00:27:40.16
disagree.
00:27:40.16\00:27:41.16
That's the
point of disagreement.
00:27:41.16\00:27:42.89
If you're gonna try to start,
okay, similar, 'cause there's
00:27:42.89\00:27:44.56
a lot of agreement.
00:27:44.56\00:27:45.66
>>JAMES: There's
a lot of agreement.
00:27:45.66\00:27:46.73
>>DAVID: Let's be honest.
00:27:46.73\00:27:47.93
You have agreement that
all of humanity's in need of
00:27:47.93\00:27:49.10
salvation.
00:27:49.10\00:27:49.86
Point of agreement.
00:27:49.86\00:27:50.83
you have that
there's depravity, agreement.
00:27:50.83\00:27:52.30
You have that salvation is
a moral and a spiritual work,
00:27:52.30\00:27:56.20
agreement.
00:27:56.20\00:27:57.31
You have the fact that
salvation is going somewhere,
00:27:57.31\00:27:58.84
escitologically, agreement.
00:27:58.84\00:28:00.64
You even have the idea
that grace is the major point,
00:28:00.64\00:28:04.45
agreement, but the point of
disagreement revolves around
00:28:04.45\00:28:08.22
this idea of merit.
00:28:08.22\00:28:09.75
Do we, in any sense, does the
sinner, in any sense, acquire
00:28:09.75\00:28:14.09
a claim?
00:28:14.09\00:28:15.72
Even if it's a miniscule
claim, an infinitesimal claim?
00:28:15.72\00:28:20.20
And the answer is, no.
00:28:20.20\00:28:22.56
The Protestants said,
sola gracia, only grace.
00:28:22.56\00:28:26.20
Not mostly, not largely,
not almost entirely, but only.
00:28:26.20\00:28:32.04
>>TY: And that sets the God of
scripture apart from all other
00:28:32.04\00:28:34.61
gods, belief systems,
religions in all of history,
00:28:34.61\00:28:39.88
because every other system
of thought is based on merit.
00:28:39.88\00:28:44.49
God is genie in the bottle,
god is a vending machine, you
00:28:44.49\00:28:48.76
put in the appropriate
coinage, you get something in
00:28:48.76\00:28:52.23
return, it's all
economics, it's all transaction.
00:28:52.23\00:28:57.60
Even in very popular versions
of quote, unquote, the gospel,
00:28:57.60\00:29:02.44
I put it in quote marks
because it's not the gospel,
00:29:02.44\00:29:04.77
in which the bible is reduced
to a successful living manual,
00:29:04.77\00:29:12.75
where God wants you to
have wealth and what this is all
00:29:12.75\00:29:18.19
about is getting you
blessings, so position
00:29:18.19\00:29:22.09
yourself for the blessings
that God wants to pour upon
00:29:22.09\00:29:25.23
you and if you're not blessed,
well, there's a lack of faith
00:29:25.23\00:29:29.43
in your life and it all...
00:29:29.43\00:29:32.30
>>JAMES: And lack of giving,
and trusting in God and you
00:29:32.30\00:29:34.34
can get blessed if you
will do these specific things.
00:29:34.34\00:29:37.17
>>TY: You do this, and
you will get that nicer car,
00:29:37.17\00:29:39.64
you'll get that nicer
house, you'll get that better
00:29:39.64\00:29:41.28
paycheck.
00:29:41.28\00:29:42.48
If you'll put in, you'll get
out, and a lot of what's being
00:29:42.48\00:29:46.51
called the gospel, the bible's
been reduced to that, it's
00:29:46.51\00:29:49.42
been reduced to a pagan
manual for successful living.
00:29:49.42\00:29:55.12
So, there's no story
that's unfolding here.
00:29:55.12\00:29:58.76
>>DAVID: It's so
funny when you say that.
00:29:58.76\00:29:59.86
Go ahead, finish your thought.
00:29:59.86\00:30:00.83
>>TY: There's no
story unfolding here.
00:30:00.83\00:30:02.36
It's a bunch of verses where
you just grab scriptures here
00:30:02.36\00:30:06.63
and there that say, blessing,
blessing, blessing, blessing,
00:30:06.63\00:30:09.34
get, get, get, get.
00:30:09.34\00:30:11.37
>>DAVID: Apply
them indiscriminately.
00:30:11.37\00:30:12.81
It's funny because people
come to Jesus and they're like,
00:30:12.81\00:30:16.01
Jesus, we're gonna follow
you, and Jesus' response is, I
00:30:16.01\00:30:19.35
don't have a home.
00:30:19.35\00:30:20.58
I don't have a
place to lay my head.
00:30:20.58\00:30:22.72
Even, like, birds have nests
and foxes have little holes
00:30:22.72\00:30:25.22
they crawl in.
00:30:25.22\00:30:26.32
You wanna see my possessions,
you're looking at it.
00:30:26.32\00:30:29.32
And that's the Jesus
that's gonna say, yeah, but my
00:30:29.32\00:30:31.96
followers, two Mercedes,
two BMWs, bigger, really?
00:30:31.96\00:30:38.83
Is that the story?
00:30:38.83\00:30:40.60
>>TY: It's such an insulting
view of God and salvation.
00:30:40.60\00:30:46.17
>>JEFFERY: There's
nothing wrong with wealth or
00:30:46.17\00:30:49.04
with abundance.
00:30:49.04\00:30:50.45
>>TY: That's not what
the story's about the point,
00:30:50.45\00:30:53.28
salvation isn't
temporal, material
00:30:53.28\00:30:56.99
salvation, although there are
material blessings to be had.
00:30:56.99\00:30:59.85
Honest labor, and you
do put in and you get out.
00:30:59.85\00:31:03.93
>>DAVID: Not grace, though.
00:31:03.93\00:31:05.83
>>TY: Salvation's in a
completely different category.
00:31:05.83\00:31:10.07
Everything in our culture,
the educational system, the
00:31:10.07\00:31:12.90
professional
system is merit based.
00:31:12.90\00:31:15.57
The educational
system, it's about grades.
00:31:15.57\00:31:18.64
>>DAVID: It's a meritocracy.
00:31:18.64\00:31:19.77
>>TY: That's right.
00:31:19.77\00:31:20.98
You got to get a job, you
have a resume, and your resume's
00:31:20.98\00:31:24.18
telling why you deserve the
position, and then, when you
00:31:24.18\00:31:27.78
come to God, when you come
to Jesus, the whole system is
00:31:27.78\00:31:31.59
upended and actually, the fact
that we're fallen and unworthy
00:31:31.59\00:31:36.79
is what recommends,
so, what's on the resume?
00:31:36.79\00:31:40.40
What's on the resume?
00:31:40.40\00:31:41.66
Total depravity.
00:31:41.66\00:31:42.73
>>JEFFERY: The fact that
you're not qualified is the
00:31:42.73\00:31:44.30
thing that qualifies you.
00:31:44.30\00:31:45.60
>>TY: I'm not qualified for
the job and Jesus says, you're
00:31:45.60\00:31:47.94
the one.
00:31:47.94\00:31:49.37
>>JAMES: And he exemplifies
that again in his life.
00:31:49.37\00:31:51.81
He comes to this earth, he
picks out his disciples, who
00:31:51.81\00:31:53.81
are they?
00:31:53.81\00:31:54.94
The Pharisees, the Sagisees,
the scribes, the religious
00:31:54.94\00:31:57.08
leaders?
00:31:57.08\00:31:57.68
No, they're not qualified.
00:31:57.68\00:31:58.45
They're disqualified.
00:31:58.45\00:31:59.31
Who's qualified?
00:31:59.31\00:32:00.35
They're disqualified
by their qualifications.
00:32:00.35\00:32:02.08
Who's qualified?
00:32:02.08\00:32:04.55
>>TY: I have a passage
from scripture on grace that
00:32:04.55\00:32:09.32
doesn't use the word
grace, but it's Jesus describing
00:32:09.32\00:32:12.53
grace in action and it's
in the sermon on the Mount in
00:32:12.53\00:32:15.53
Matthew 5, where Jesus, I
think, is describing a feature
00:32:15.53\00:32:20.44
of what James has been
calling previnient grace, right?
00:32:20.44\00:32:24.81
And that is where Jesus says,
okay, God's the kind of person
00:32:24.81\00:32:29.48
who makes the sun shine on the
righteous and the wicked, the
00:32:29.48\00:32:32.58
rain comes on the
righteous and the wicked.
00:32:32.58\00:32:34.88
Yeah, so, there's a sense
in which we could say that the
00:32:34.88\00:32:41.86
whole world, whether
you're a believer or unbeliever,
00:32:41.86\00:32:44.46
atheist, agnostic, every
single person in this world is
00:32:44.46\00:32:48.70
surrounded by an atmosphere
of grace as real as the air we
00:32:48.70\00:32:53.40
breathe.
00:32:53.40\00:32:54.50
Every time you take in a
breath of oxygen that breath,
00:32:54.50\00:32:57.44
that breath of air is a gift
of grace, on a temporal level.
00:32:57.44\00:33:02.71
Every time you take your,
you eat a blueberry, every time
00:33:02.71\00:33:07.12
you eat a loaf of bread, it
is stamped with the cross of
00:33:07.12\00:33:11.15
Christ in the sense that
it's been purchased for you.
00:33:11.15\00:33:13.66
Now, scripture actually says
that there is a sense in which
00:33:13.66\00:33:18.63
Jesus has saved all men,
comma, especially those who
00:33:18.63\00:33:23.87
believe.
00:33:23.87\00:33:25.40
>>JAMES: 1 Timothy 4:10.
00:33:25.40\00:33:26.53
>>DAVID: I've always
wrestled with that text.
00:33:26.53\00:33:27.87
>>JAMES: Wrestle no longer.
00:33:27.87\00:33:29.17
[Laughter]
00:33:29.17\00:33:31.57
>>DAVID: Deliver
me from my wrestling.
00:33:31.57\00:33:33.98
>>JAMES: Acts chapter 17,
verse 28 is my favorite, for
00:33:33.98\00:33:35.84
in him, we live and
move and have our being.
00:33:35.84\00:33:40.68
Paul is talking to
unbelievers right now.
00:33:40.68\00:33:42.68
And he's saying in him,
you live and move and have your
00:33:42.68\00:33:45.09
beings.
00:33:45.09\00:33:45.72
Now, here's the issue.
00:33:45.72\00:33:46.76
This temporal life that
we have right now that he's
00:33:46.76\00:33:49.82
talking about, he's not
talking about eternal life,
00:33:49.82\00:33:51.29
he's talking
about temporal life.
00:33:51.29\00:33:53.26
This temporal life that he's
talking about comes to those
00:33:53.26\00:33:55.56
unbelievers by
grace, by the cross.
00:33:55.56\00:33:59.20
The temporal life does.
00:33:59.20\00:34:00.20
In him, we live and
move and have our being.
00:34:00.20\00:34:03.87
We would be dead now
if it wasn't for Christ.
00:34:03.87\00:34:06.84
>>TY: We'd
already be extinguished.
00:34:06.84\00:34:09.41
>>JAMES: We'd be dead.
00:34:09.41\00:34:10.55
>>DAVID: I get that, I get
that, but you're saying that
00:34:10.55\00:34:14.42
that is the meaning of the
text that God is the Savior of
00:34:14.42\00:34:17.55
all men, comma,
especially those that believe.
00:34:17.55\00:34:20.76
>>JAMES: So, let's
make that connection now.
00:34:20.76\00:34:22.92
>>DAVID: Remind me
of where that text is.
00:34:22.92\00:34:23.86
>>JAMES: 1 Timothy 4:10.
00:34:23.86\00:34:25.19
Let's make that connection now.
00:34:25.19\00:34:26.90
So, Savior from what?
00:34:26.90\00:34:29.63
Savior from what?
00:34:29.63\00:34:31.00
Well, when we think of
salvation, the first thing we
00:34:31.00\00:34:33.17
think about, in relation to
salvation, the first thing we
00:34:33.17\00:34:35.37
think about is
going to heaven, right?
00:34:35.37\00:34:39.44
But Jesus says the kingdom of
God is right here, it's within
00:34:39.44\00:34:41.91
you.
00:34:41.91\00:34:43.11
The kingdom of God is not in
meat and drink, et cetera, the
00:34:43.11\00:34:45.21
kingdom of God
is in joy and love.
00:34:45.21\00:34:46.92
There are people on planet
earth, every single person on
00:34:46.92\00:34:49.52
planet earth that has to some
degree tasted the salvational
00:34:49.52\00:34:53.96
kingdom of God, the salvific
kingdom of God, even if they
00:34:53.96\00:34:56.73
don't know it, because of
Christ, because Christ has put
00:34:56.73\00:35:00.83
them in him.
00:35:00.83\00:35:02.03
And this is the powerful part,
the sacrifice that it took to
00:35:02.03\00:35:06.94
give us temporal life is
the same sacrifice it takes to
00:35:06.94\00:35:10.11
give eternal life.
00:35:10.11\00:35:11.51
It's the same sacrifice.
00:35:11.51\00:35:12.64
And what God is saying
was, he's saying, you know this
00:35:12.64\00:35:14.41
temporal life that you have,
as miserable as it may seem,
00:35:14.41\00:35:16.61
remember those little tastes
of joy and peace, I would like
00:35:16.61\00:35:20.02
that to continue
on for all eternity.
00:35:20.02\00:35:23.05
I would like
for you to continue.
00:35:23.05\00:35:24.69
>>JEFFERY: So, especially
those who believe, your point
00:35:24.69\00:35:28.42
is, there's this general
experience that we are all
00:35:28.42\00:35:36.33
tasting.
00:35:36.33\00:35:37.67
We are all breathing the air
of grace, but then there's the
00:35:37.67\00:35:41.90
especially, those who
actually receive it actively.
00:35:41.90\00:35:45.07
>>DAVID: Those who know
its source, is that the point?
00:35:45.07\00:35:46.68
>>JAMES: Those who will
experience it eternally.
00:35:46.68\00:35:49.08
>>TY: In all of our
best moments in life.
00:35:49.08\00:35:52.85
The laughter of our children.
00:35:52.85\00:35:54.02
>>DAVID: Yes. A
beautiful symphony.
00:35:54.02\00:35:56.28
>>TY: Yeah, eating a tasty
meal, listening to a beautiful
00:35:56.28\00:35:59.39
song, experiencing
forgiveness from somebody in an
00:35:59.39\00:36:03.09
unbelieving home, where Jesus
isn't even named, but you were
00:36:03.09\00:36:09.60
just forgiven.
00:36:09.60\00:36:10.97
All of those best moments of
life are, in a sense, typical
00:36:10.97\00:36:14.74
or shadowing forth,
the bigger reality of the
00:36:14.74\00:36:19.04
salvation that could pervade
every aspect of our lives
00:36:19.04\00:36:22.94
through connection with Christ.
00:36:22.94\00:36:25.35
And the bible is full of this
comparison, Savior of all men,
00:36:25.35\00:36:30.19
especially of those who
believe is articulated by Paul
00:36:30.19\00:36:32.45
in another place as that
you have been reconciled, we've
00:36:32.45\00:36:36.83
all been reconciled by God
not counting men's sins against
00:36:36.83\00:36:41.50
them.
00:36:41.50\00:36:42.56
2 Corinthians 5, not
imputing their sins unto them
00:36:42.56\00:36:46.90
universally.
00:36:46.90\00:36:49.10
Now, you be reconciled to God.
00:36:49.10\00:36:51.94
You be reconciled to me.
00:36:51.94\00:36:55.54
>>JAMES: In John 3:16, and
God so loved the world that he
00:36:55.54\00:36:58.18
gave his only begotten
Son that whosoever believes in
00:36:58.18\00:37:00.95
him, that's the especially part.
00:37:00.95\00:37:02.92
>>DAVID: Okay, so, I just
wanna read this verse, just so
00:37:02.92\00:37:06.99
I'm sure I'm
getting what you're saying.
00:37:06.99\00:37:08.96
Now, I get the concepts,
but I wanna see it in this text.
00:37:08.96\00:37:11.16
So, 1 Timothy chapter 4,
verse 9, this is a faithful
00:37:11.16\00:37:15.30
saying in worthy of all
acceptance, for this end, we
00:37:15.30\00:37:19.17
both labor and suffer reproach
because we trust in the living
00:37:19.17\00:37:22.30
God, hallelujah, who is the
Savior of all men, especially
00:37:22.30\00:37:27.41
of those who believe.
00:37:27.41\00:37:28.61
Okay.
00:37:28.61\00:37:30.38
Just explain that phrase to me.
00:37:30.38\00:37:32.58
The Savior of all men,
you're saying, everybody is
00:37:32.58\00:37:34.92
receiving, I don't
wanna put words in your mouth.
00:37:34.92\00:37:38.52
Explain that to me, because
I've always wondered about
00:37:38.52\00:37:40.59
that, it sounded weird to me.
00:37:40.59\00:37:43.06
>>JEFFERY: Everyone is
experiencing the benefits of
00:37:43.06\00:37:44.83
grace, the fact that
we're breathing, but especially
00:37:44.83\00:37:48.90
those who believe, those who
are actually going to receive
00:37:48.90\00:37:54.00
the actual gift of
salvation, that they will be
00:37:54.00\00:37:57.14
able to experience
salvation through eternity.
00:37:57.14\00:38:01.81
That's what you
keep reiterating.
00:38:01.81\00:38:03.51
>>TY: We have to take a break,
we don't want to, but we have
00:38:03.51\00:38:06.78
to.
00:38:06.78\00:38:08.42
I'm watching the clock.
00:38:08.42\00:38:09.88
We'll take a break, we'll come
back and then I'm gonna share
00:38:09.88\00:38:12.09
another scripture
that I think answers that.
00:38:12.09\00:38:13.86
>>DAVID: Okay, great.
00:38:13.86\00:38:16.09
[Music]
00:38:16.09\00:38:26.84
Announcer: Truth is not
merely a list of theological
00:38:26.84\00:38:29.10
facts, but rather the
revelation of God's beautiful
00:38:29.10\00:38:32.01
love in Jesus Christ.
00:38:32.01\00:38:33.81
Truth Link is a series
of bible study guides that
00:38:33.81\00:38:36.51
magnify God's love as
the center of every bible
00:38:36.51\00:38:39.91
doctrine.
00:38:39.91\00:38:41.12
To receive your free copy of
lesson one, call 877-585-1111
00:38:41.12\00:38:47.39
or write to Light Bearers,
37457 Jasper Lowell Road,
00:38:47.39\00:38:52.29
Jasper, Oregon, 97438.
00:38:52.29\00:38:55.50
Once again, to receive your
free copy of Truth Link lesson
00:38:55.50\00:38:59.07
one, call 877-585-1111
or write to Light Bearers,
00:38:59.07\00:39:04.84
37457 Jasper Lowell
Road, Jasper, Oregon, 97438.
00:39:04.84\00:39:12.01
[Music]
00:39:12.01\00:39:18.35
>>TY: Alright, so, right
before the break, we were
00:39:18.35\00:39:20.26
looking at the Timothy text
chapter, 1 Timothy, chapter 4,
00:39:20.26\00:39:23.79
verse 10, where Paul uses this
language that admittedly, is a
00:39:23.79\00:39:27.23
little strange sounding to our
ears, that Jesus is the Savior
00:39:27.23\00:39:30.80
of all men, that's
a universal statement.
00:39:30.80\00:39:33.27
That alone sounds strange
to our ears, if you just stop
00:39:33.27\00:39:36.37
right there, the
Savior of all men.
00:39:36.37\00:39:38.31
That's not true.
00:39:38.31\00:39:39.34
Isn't it all, but he
says, especially of those who
00:39:39.34\00:39:43.68
believe.
00:39:43.68\00:39:45.08
So, then, later on, in 2
Timothy, just to draw the
00:39:45.08\00:39:48.52
distinction here, in 2 Timothy
chapter 1 and starting with
00:39:48.52\00:39:54.06
verse 9, speaking of Jesus and
the gospel previously in verse
00:39:54.06\00:39:57.13
8, verse 9, who has saved us,
has saved us, past tense, and
00:39:57.13\00:40:00.80
called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works,
00:40:00.80\00:40:04.17
but according to his own
purpose of grace, which was
00:40:04.17\00:40:08.30
given, was given, past tense,
to us, where in Christ Jesus,
00:40:08.30\00:40:12.84
before time began, so it's
an envelope, it's a portfolio,
00:40:12.84\00:40:16.34
it's just all there, in
him, verse 10, but has now been
00:40:16.34\00:40:21.45
revealed by the appearing of
our Savior, Jesus Christ, who
00:40:21.45\00:40:25.65
has abolished death and
brought life and immortality
00:40:25.65\00:40:31.49
to light through the gospel.
00:40:31.49\00:40:33.19
So, I'm drawing a distinction
here that's comparable to
00:40:33.19\00:40:36.50
Savior of all men,
especially of those who believe.
00:40:36.50\00:40:40.54
Savior of all men in a
temporal sense, especially of
00:40:40.54\00:40:44.67
those who believe in an
eternal sense, and now, I'm
00:40:44.67\00:40:47.94
suggesting that that's
parallel to this, where he's
00:40:47.94\00:40:50.05
saying, he's brought two
things to light, life, right
00:40:50.05\00:40:54.12
here and right now,
temperately, and immortality.
00:40:54.12\00:40:56.79
He's holding these
in contrast, David.
00:40:56.79\00:40:58.99
Life and immortality.
00:40:58.99\00:41:00.49
Life is something that we
all enjoy, whether we believe in
00:41:00.49\00:41:03.96
Jesus or not ever.
00:41:03.96\00:41:05.13
And immortality is something
that is only conferred upon
00:41:05.13\00:41:08.46
those who...
00:41:08.46\00:41:10.03
>>DAVID: Receive it, believe it.
00:41:10.03\00:41:11.40
>>JEFFERY: Because immortality
is the same thing as life.
00:41:11.40\00:41:14.64
>>TY: It's super
fun to believe this.
00:41:14.64\00:41:16.20
>>JEFFERY: It's the same
thing as life, but it's only...
00:41:16.20\00:41:18.81
>>TY: It's the same thing.
00:41:18.81\00:41:20.94
>>DAVID: I don't think so.
00:41:20.94\00:41:22.08
>>JEFFERY: It is.
00:41:22.08\00:41:23.01
Life and immortality.
00:41:23.01\00:41:23.95
>>DAVID: I'm
gonna push back on that.
00:41:23.95\00:41:25.21
>>JEFFERY: Life is
the opposite of death.
00:41:25.21\00:41:26.45
>>DAVID: I get that, but just
tell me if you like this or if
00:41:26.45\00:41:28.72
you hate this.
00:41:28.72\00:41:29.25
>>JEFFERY: I hate it.
00:41:29.25\00:41:30.12
>>DAVID: [Laughs]
00:41:30.12\00:41:30.92
>>TY:  You don't even know...
00:41:30.92\00:41:32.19
>>DAVID: Just follow
this, tell me if you like this.
00:41:32.19\00:41:34.72
Jesus is speaking in
John chapter 5, verse 28-29,
00:41:34.72\00:41:37.49
somewhere around there, and
he says, the hour is coming and
00:41:37.49\00:41:39.89
now is when all that are
in the graves will hear the
00:41:39.89\00:41:42.36
voice.
00:41:42.36\00:41:43.26
And now is.
00:41:43.26\00:41:45.53
We are dead, Paul says in
Ephesians 2, we are dead in
00:41:45.53\00:41:48.67
trespasses and sins.
00:41:48.67\00:41:50.21
Now, right now, people
are living, they're dead.
00:41:50.21\00:41:52.84
So, we sometimes think of
eternal life, this is my idea,
00:41:52.84\00:41:55.51
let me throw one more on there.
00:41:55.51\00:41:57.68
John 10:10, and this is,
not life, the thief comes but to
00:41:57.68\00:42:01.15
kill and to steal, but I'm
come that they might have life
00:42:01.15\00:42:03.22
and have it more abundantly.
00:42:03.22\00:42:04.39
So, I take that to mean
that some people how are living,
00:42:04.39\00:42:06.89
biologically living,
phisiologically living,
00:42:06.89\00:42:09.86
neurologically living, are
actually not living the life
00:42:09.86\00:42:13.86
that God intended.
00:42:13.86\00:42:15.10
They're dead.
00:42:15.10\00:42:16.20
>>TY: They have biological
life, but they don't have
00:42:16.20\00:42:17.80
zoe life.
00:42:17.80\00:42:18.97
>>DAVID: So, life, eternal
life is not just a quantity of
00:42:18.97\00:42:25.04
years, it's a qualify of
existence, and I know you
00:42:25.04\00:42:27.88
weren't thinking against that.
00:42:27.88\00:42:29.04
>>TY: And that's
how it can start now.
00:42:29.04\00:42:30.58
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, and I love that.
00:42:30.58\00:42:32.35
And you might remember
that Jesus on one occasion said,
00:42:32.35\00:42:34.68
hey, God is not the God
of, God is the God of Abraham,
00:42:34.68\00:42:37.95
Isaac, and Jacob, he's not
the God of the dead, but of the
00:42:37.95\00:42:39.62
living, and you're like,
wait a minute, those are dead
00:42:39.62\00:42:41.06
people.
00:42:41.06\00:42:41.96
Yeah, those people are all dead.
00:42:41.96\00:42:43.16
Btu in the larger narrative
of the way God sees the world,
00:42:43.16\00:42:47.56
they're sleeping.
00:42:47.56\00:42:48.73
They were living the quality
of life that God intended for
00:42:48.73\00:42:51.47
us to live.
00:42:51.47\00:42:52.60
But there are
people, oppressive, unkind,
00:42:52.60\00:42:55.44
unforgiving, hateful, you
know, we have those lists of
00:42:55.44\00:42:58.14
scripture, you might
be breathing, but you are
00:42:58.14\00:43:00.81
borrowing the air of
grace to live a life of death.
00:43:00.81\00:43:05.11
>>TY: Jesus even said, David,
to his disciples, at that time
00:43:05.11\00:43:09.92
right there in those moments,
if you believe in me, you will
00:43:09.92\00:43:13.76
never die, and they all died.
00:43:13.76\00:43:15.99
You will never
die and they all died.
00:43:15.99\00:43:17.43
So, Jesus had to be talking
about the thing that you're
00:43:17.43\00:43:21.06
articulating right now.
00:43:21.06\00:43:23.40
>>JEFFERY: Did you guys quote
Ephesians 2:1, and you he made
00:43:23.40\00:43:25.23
alive who were dead
in trespasses and sins.
00:43:25.23\00:43:28.94
>>DAVID: We referenced it.
00:43:28.94\00:43:30.27
>>JEFFERY: They're
alive, yet they're dead.
00:43:30.27\00:43:32.04
So, then, you're saying that
the two categories of life and
00:43:32.04\00:43:36.31
immortality.
00:43:36.31\00:43:37.35
Life and
immortality's the other thing.
00:43:37.35\00:43:41.12
So, life is just
what, physical breathing
00:43:41.12\00:43:43.32
immortality, is
this spiritual reality?
00:43:43.32\00:43:45.15
>>TY: And all the
blessings that it entails.
00:43:45.15\00:43:46.76
>>DAVID: I might wreck this,
but you could say something
00:43:46.76\00:43:49.46
like that life is given to
all, comma, especially those
00:43:49.46\00:43:54.36
who are living.
00:43:54.36\00:43:56.16
I'm trying to do a little
play on words there, 1 Timothy
00:43:56.16\00:43:58.63
4:10, so you have this
whole like, everybody gets
00:43:58.63\00:44:00.34
salvation, but only the
ones who receive it get it.
00:44:00.34\00:44:01.97
Everybody's living.
00:44:01.97\00:44:04.74
>>TY: I don't think that
slaughters it at all, I think
00:44:04.74\00:44:06.51
that's helpful for me.
00:44:06.51\00:44:07.61
>>DAVID: That's cool, right?
00:44:07.61\00:44:08.61
This is like a
dawning for me on...
00:44:08.61\00:44:09.71
>>JEFFERY: So, those who
eventually, those who are lost
00:44:09.71\00:44:12.68
who don't participate in
salvation through eternity,
00:44:12.68\00:44:16.82
they are what?
00:44:16.82\00:44:18.72
They are dead in the same
sense that Jesus Christ...
00:44:18.72\00:44:21.96
>>DAVID: yeah, that's right,
if they're alive right now,
00:44:21.96\00:44:23.63
they are from the biblical
perspective, they are living a
00:44:23.63\00:44:26.03
life that's not a life.
00:44:26.03\00:44:27.36
Because life is not
just a biological function.
00:44:27.36\00:44:29.66
Life is about, like you said,
all those beautiful moments.
00:44:29.66\00:44:32.87
Forgiving and being forgiven.
00:44:32.87\00:44:34.77
Giving a $600 camera to
somebody, seeing the birth of
00:44:34.77\00:44:37.61
your birth child and smelling
them and not that time, not
00:44:37.61\00:44:41.11
when they're doing that thing,
but just the smell of a baby,
00:44:41.11\00:44:43.78
their skin, their, the eating
a mango, playing guitar with
00:44:43.78\00:44:47.68
your friends, you
know what I'm saying?
00:44:47.68\00:44:49.88
Like, that's life as it was
meant to be lived and enjoyed.
00:44:49.88\00:44:52.79
>>TY: Yeah, that's why, in
the Greek language, David, there
00:44:52.79\00:44:56.32
were two words
for life, not one.
00:44:56.32\00:44:58.76
There was biolife and zoe life.
00:44:58.76\00:45:00.53
Biolife is just
biological existence.
00:45:00.53\00:45:03.06
>>JEFFERY: Breathing.
00:45:03.06\00:45:04.27
>>TY: Yeah, so, when Paul says
in Ephesians 2, you are dead
00:45:04.27\00:45:08.17
in trespasses and sins,
he's addressing people who are
00:45:08.17\00:45:11.37
biologically alive who
can read the words and who can
00:45:11.37\00:45:13.41
hear what he's saying.
00:45:13.41\00:45:14.88
He's saying,
you're dead living people.
00:45:14.88\00:45:18.38
You're biologically taking
in oxygen, you're going, you're
00:45:18.38\00:45:22.35
waking up, you're going to
work, you're coming home, but
00:45:22.35\00:45:25.19
you're not alive.
00:45:25.19\00:45:26.76
you're not alive with zoe
life, with spiritual life.
00:45:26.76\00:45:29.99
You're not alive, you're
not alive on a relational level
00:45:29.99\00:45:34.96
because you actions deal death
in the way that you're doing
00:45:34.96\00:45:39.00
relationships, it's
killing emotion, it's killing
00:45:39.00\00:45:42.34
affection, it's killing the
capacity for love, and that's
00:45:42.34\00:45:47.74
the sense in which, ultimately
Jesus is getting at this, when
00:45:47.74\00:45:52.38
he says in John 17:3, I'm come
that you may have life, this
00:45:52.38\00:45:56.22
is eternal life, that they
might know you the only true
00:45:56.22\00:46:01.42
God in Jesus
Christ, whom you have sent.
00:46:01.42\00:46:04.26
Jesus defines eternal life in
that text as knowing God, as a
00:46:04.26\00:46:07.96
psychological process.
00:46:07.96\00:46:09.40
>>DAVID: And that doesn't
start at some time in the
00:46:09.40\00:46:11.37
future.
00:46:11.37\00:46:12.20
That could start right now.
00:46:12.20\00:46:13.60
>>TY: You have eternal life
right now, while you're in the
00:46:13.60\00:46:16.40
process of biologically dying.
00:46:16.40\00:46:18.31
I'll die biologically in
possession of eternal life,
00:46:18.31\00:46:22.51
then be resurrected and
pick up right where I left off.
00:46:22.51\00:46:24.98
>>JAMES: So, just to add to
this, going back to our text
00:46:24.98\00:46:29.32
in 2 Timothy, verse, 2 Timothy
1, verse 10, but now's made
00:46:29.32\00:46:33.52
manifest by the appearing
of our Savior Jesus Christ who
00:46:33.52\00:46:38.09
has abolished death and hath
brought life and immortality
00:46:38.09\00:46:41.43
into light through the gospel.
00:46:41.43\00:46:42.80
So, he's brought this to
light through the gospel.
00:46:42.80\00:46:45.63
This light on life and
immortality has come through
00:46:45.63\00:46:48.37
the gospel.
00:46:48.37\00:46:49.40
Where unto, verse 11, I
am appointed a preacher, an
00:46:49.40\00:46:52.44
apostle, and a teacher of who?
00:46:52.44\00:46:54.94
The Gentiles.
00:46:54.94\00:46:56.01
So, then, in Acts 17, he
starts out here and he says,
00:46:56.01\00:46:58.38
you know that thing that
you have, that unknown God?
00:46:58.38\00:47:01.22
Remember that?
00:47:01.22\00:47:02.38
Well, I wanna tell you, I
wanna tell you about that guy.
00:47:02.38\00:47:05.32
That unknown
God, what he's like.
00:47:05.32\00:47:07.19
God is, he made the world and
all the things that are in it.
00:47:07.19\00:47:09.59
Everything he made, and
he's not worshipped with men's
00:47:09.59\00:47:12.36
hands because he gives
life and breath and all things.
00:47:12.36\00:47:15.70
See what he's doing right there?
00:47:15.70\00:47:17.77
He's disclosing, he's
unfolding, he's unveiling God,
00:47:17.77\00:47:20.67
the character of God.
00:47:20.67\00:47:22.07
This is what God is really
like, and in him, you live and
00:47:22.07\00:47:24.97
move and have your being.
00:47:24.97\00:47:26.61
You see that?
00:47:26.61\00:47:27.44
>>DAVID: This
really is amazing grace.
00:47:27.44\00:47:29.11
>>TY: And he goes a
step further in that passage,
00:47:29.11\00:47:30.81
James, he says, not only in
him do you live and move and
00:47:30.81\00:47:33.21
have your being, but he
goes on to say something to the
00:47:33.21\00:47:35.85
effect of God has for
every person established
00:47:35.85\00:47:39.32
preappointed times.
00:47:39.32\00:47:41.16
You're born here, and I was
born there and in other words,
00:47:41.16\00:47:44.23
providentially, God is
orchestrating things in
00:47:44.23\00:47:47.66
people's temporal life,
and then, it says, so that,
00:47:47.66\00:47:50.43
perchance, they might seek him.
00:47:50.43\00:47:52.37
Even though, even though, he's
not far from any one of them.
00:47:52.37\00:47:55.44
>>JAMES: That's
just this full picture.
00:47:55.44\00:47:58.04
>>DAVID: When you said
that phrase earlier that we are
00:47:58.04\00:48:00.38
living in an atmosphere of
grace as real as the air we
00:48:00.38\00:48:04.78
breathe.
00:48:04.78\00:48:06.55
So, then, the difference
between the biolife and the
00:48:06.55\00:48:09.25
zoe life is an awareness.
00:48:09.25\00:48:12.22
Really, that's what we're
talking about, we're talking
00:48:12.22\00:48:15.29
about waking up.
00:48:15.29\00:48:16.69
Seeing what's actually going on.
00:48:16.69\00:48:19.79
Right?
00:48:19.79\00:48:21.56
>>JEFFERY: I love the
language, Timothy uses the
00:48:21.56\00:48:25.10
language, this
idea of the awareness.
00:48:25.10\00:48:28.00
He says, come to your senses.
00:48:28.00\00:48:30.64
People who have been
taken captive now come to their
00:48:30.64\00:48:32.97
senses.
00:48:32.97\00:48:34.31
That's in 2 Timothy 2:26, and
also, the prodigal son, yeah,
00:48:34.31\00:48:40.25
remember, the story Christ,
Jesus tells, it says, when he
00:48:40.25\00:48:42.72
came to his, some says came to
himself or came to his senses.
00:48:42.72\00:48:48.62
He realized he was dead.
00:48:48.62\00:48:50.39
it says it numerous
times in the passage.
00:48:50.39\00:48:52.73
He was dead, he was dead.
00:48:52.73\00:48:54.36
Now, he's alive.
00:48:54.36\00:48:56.20
>>TY: He woke up to the
reality of the situation.
00:48:56.20\00:48:58.73
>>JEFFERY: Yeah, he woke up
to the reality that, I'm not
00:48:58.73\00:49:00.10
really living, even
though I'm breathing.
00:49:00.10\00:49:02.57
This is not really living.
00:49:02.57\00:49:04.27
>>DAVID: The
passage says he was dead?
00:49:04.27\00:49:05.31
>>TY: My son who
was dead, is alive.
00:49:07.21\00:49:09.78
>>DAVID: He was alive.
00:49:09.78\00:49:12.58
That's good stuff.
00:49:12.58\00:49:13.75
Okay, so, in the context
of the reformation, then, this
00:49:13.75\00:49:16.95
sort of discovery that
we're having right now, that's
00:49:16.95\00:49:18.79
what's happening.
00:49:18.79\00:49:20.06
These guys are just like,
whoa, whoa, whoa, and then
00:49:20.06\00:49:22.22
they're looking at this
whole hierarchical, manmade
00:49:22.22\00:49:25.79
tradition-based system,
and they're coming alive to the
00:49:25.79\00:49:30.47
gospel and they are,
sometimes, less than politely,
00:49:30.47\00:49:33.70
kicking against a system
that has obviscated this great
00:49:33.70\00:49:39.14
truth of sola gracia from
the view, their view and others'
00:49:39.14\00:49:42.81
view.
00:49:42.81\00:49:43.78
And they acted,
understandingly, with vitriol,
00:49:43.78\00:49:46.21
and they were angry.
00:49:46.21\00:49:47.45
>>TY: We've been duped, we've
been huly-scwagged and we just
00:49:47.45\00:49:51.25
realized the whole
system has taken us.
00:49:51.25\00:49:55.16
>>JAMES: That's
my story for sure.
00:49:55.16\00:49:56.49
Over and over again.
00:49:56.49\00:49:58.03
>>TY: Can I add one thing to
this temporal life, spiritual
00:49:58.03\00:50:00.06
life thing coming alive?
00:50:00.06\00:50:02.30
Luther, in discovering the
grace of God, okay, began to
00:50:02.30\00:50:08.74
say to people and to himself,
well, if all of that's true,
00:50:08.74\00:50:13.71
then the common blessings of
life should be enjoyed because
00:50:13.71\00:50:19.18
they're all gifts of grace.
00:50:19.18\00:50:20.88
So, he began to say things
to the effect of, you know, once
00:50:20.88\00:50:24.42
I discovered the
gospel, I began to enjoy food.
00:50:24.42\00:50:28.42
Whereas, before,
food, was something...
00:50:28.42\00:50:29.96
>>DAVID: I'll tell you
what else you'll begin to enjoy.
00:50:29.96\00:50:31.86
>>TY: Well, a woman
named Katherina Venbora, that's
00:50:31.86\00:50:34.56
right.
00:50:34.56\00:50:35.46
>>DAVID: It's true, right?
00:50:35.46\00:50:37.03
>>TY: It's true.
00:50:37.03\00:50:38.27
So, I was gonna go there, you
know, slowly, but the point is
00:50:38.27\00:50:44.14
that food was a
threat prior to grace.
00:50:44.14\00:50:49.74
>>DAVID: Why?
00:50:49.74\00:50:50.91
>>TY: Because food has the
potential to corrupt me by the
00:50:50.91\00:50:54.08
indulgence of my,
it tastes so good.
00:50:54.08\00:50:56.28
We've gotta deny this,
we've gotta turn away from it,
00:50:56.28\00:51:00.59
matrimonial relation, he was
a celibate, he was committed to
00:51:00.59\00:51:05.03
a monk's life, but then,
once grace enters the picture,
00:51:05.03\00:51:08.73
suddenly, your eyes are
open, you're like, what, oxygen,
00:51:08.73\00:51:11.13
mountains, rivers, streams, a
really well prepared meal that
00:51:11.13\00:51:17.64
just makes your
taste buds scream?
00:51:17.64\00:51:20.28
The kiss of your
little girl upon your cheek?
00:51:20.28\00:51:23.75
All of this stuff took
on a whole new appearance.
00:51:23.75\00:51:26.01
This is all the gift of God.
00:51:26.01\00:51:29.62
I don't deserve any of it,
but I'm gonna enjoy it now in
00:51:29.62\00:51:33.19
light of the fact that
God has given it to me.
00:51:33.19\00:51:35.59
>>JAMES: Yes, and I love
the perspective you're coming
00:51:35.59\00:51:37.29
from.
00:51:37.29\00:51:38.49
Not the perspective of well,
I'm saved by grace, so I might
00:51:38.49\00:51:40.36
as well indulge my appetite,
I'm saved by grace, so I might
00:51:40.36\00:51:42.33
as well.
00:51:42.33\00:51:43.50
No, but rather the perspective
of, this is a gift and God
00:51:43.50\00:51:46.07
wants me to enjoy it.
00:51:46.07\00:51:47.27
I love that, because that also
puts a little bit of a bound
00:51:47.27\00:51:50.04
on it, like, enjoy it like
I'm not enjoying it anymore, I'm
00:51:50.04\00:51:52.37
getting too full, I'm
not enjoying it anymore, I'm
00:51:52.37\00:51:54.11
indulging too much,
you know what I'm saying?
00:51:54.11\00:51:55.74
It's on the level of this
beautiful gift that we wanna
00:51:55.74\00:51:58.45
enjoy.
00:51:58.45\00:51:59.65
>>DAVID: When we receive the
gift that God has intended us
00:51:59.65\00:52:03.75
to receive, life is awesome.
00:52:03.75\00:52:07.22
One of the critiques that
the reformers would have as the
00:52:07.22\00:52:11.13
Protestant reformation
would continue, with regards to
00:52:11.13\00:52:13.83
celibacy, they would say,
it's, their critique was it's
00:52:13.83\00:52:18.00
unnatural and it's
not the best state of man.
00:52:18.00\00:52:22.40
They were awakening to,
hey, wait a minute, you know,
00:52:22.40\00:52:25.67
babies are not
being delivered by storks.
00:52:25.67\00:52:27.64
Something is, this
is a gift from God.
00:52:27.64\00:52:31.05
Human sexuality, human
intimacy, human connection,
00:52:31.05\00:52:33.75
and even the family
relations themselves.
00:52:33.75\00:52:35.45
But this is regarded as,
virginity, celibacy, that's
00:52:35.45\00:52:39.49
the thing, but as we've
mentioned, virginity is only
00:52:39.49\00:52:42.26
virtuous in the sense that
it's preparation for the thing
00:52:42.26\00:52:45.73
that God made
that's a good gift.
00:52:45.73\00:52:47.86
>>JAMES: Marriage is honorable.
00:52:47.86\00:52:49.20
>>DAVID: Marriage is honorable.
00:52:49.20\00:52:50.60
And so, as they're waking up
to this, you couldn't, if you
00:52:50.60\00:52:54.80
have been kept from a strong
sense of God's grace and his
00:52:54.80\00:53:00.44
goodness and the gifts that
he has lavished upon us, and
00:53:00.44\00:53:03.14
then, you are running in like
a child in a toy store, right,
00:53:03.14\00:53:07.65
you just, you're gonna
be annoyed with the system,
00:53:07.65\00:53:10.89
right?
00:53:10.89\00:53:12.59
>>JAMES: And it's like we said
earlier, I really love this,
00:53:12.59\00:53:14.49
someone said earlier, they
said, everything God made in
00:53:14.49\00:53:16.69
the beginning was
good except for one thing.
00:53:16.69\00:53:19.03
Everything was good, good,
good, even very good, but what
00:53:19.03\00:53:22.46
was the one
thing that wasn't good?
00:53:22.46\00:53:23.80
>>DAVID: It's not good
that man should be alone.
00:53:23.80\00:53:25.63
>>JAMES: Yeah, I love that.
00:53:25.63\00:53:26.87
I just love that picture that
God is giving us, because he's
00:53:26.87\00:53:29.40
restoring us.
00:53:29.40\00:53:30.37
You know, the word
reformation, you know what
00:53:30.37\00:53:31.84
that means, what does
the word reformation mean?
00:53:31.84\00:53:34.18
One of the definitions
for reformation is renewal,
00:53:34.18\00:53:37.38
renewal.
00:53:37.38\00:53:38.91
God is renewing, he's
restoring and renewing his
00:53:38.91\00:53:40.58
original purpose for man.
00:53:40.58\00:53:42.92
>>DAVID: Okay, so, check this
out, when I baptize somebody,
00:53:42.92\00:53:44.62
we have a lot of baptisms
in our local church and when we
00:53:44.62\00:53:46.45
baptize somebody, I say
to them, look, there's a cool
00:53:46.45\00:53:48.26
thing that's
happening here in baptism.
00:53:48.26\00:53:50.26
It's a birth and a death.
00:53:50.26\00:53:52.09
You have this whole death
thing, you hold your breath,
00:53:52.09\00:53:53.56
you go under the water, it's
like a sign of the, you know,
00:53:53.56\00:53:56.30
sensation of breath,
you're buried, you come up.
00:53:56.30\00:53:57.97
But then, you also have
this whole birth thing going on
00:53:57.97\00:54:00.54
where a child is in its
mother's womb and it's in
00:54:00.54\00:54:03.74
water and then it comes out
and it takes the first breath.
00:54:03.74\00:54:06.47
I say, we're gonna put
you under the water and you're
00:54:06.47\00:54:08.34
gonna come up and when you
take that breath, that first
00:54:08.34\00:54:11.75
gospel breath, you now live
the rest of your life, you're
00:54:11.75\00:54:15.58
born again.
00:54:15.58\00:54:17.19
You're seeing through new
eyes, you're breathing through
00:54:17.19\00:54:18.75
new lungs, you're speaking
through a new mouth, you're
00:54:18.75\00:54:20.09
hearing with new ears.
00:54:20.09\00:54:21.26
you're the same person,
but you are now seeing with new
00:54:21.26\00:54:25.19
eyes, hey, that'd be a
great title for a book.
00:54:25.19\00:54:28.70
Oh, wait, you
already wrote that book.
00:54:28.70\00:54:31.10
When did you write that book?
00:54:31.10\00:54:32.33
>>TY: That would've been
in the year 1999 and it was
00:54:32.33\00:54:37.11
published in 2000.
00:54:37.11\00:54:38.97
>>DAVID: I love it.
00:54:38.97\00:54:39.84
Seeing With New Eyes.
00:54:39.84\00:54:42.18
Taking in God's amazing grace.
00:54:42.18\00:54:46.95
>>TY: So, grace is the
sole means by which God saves.
00:54:46.95\00:54:51.75
That's where the Protestant
reformers were landing.
00:54:51.75\00:54:55.32
Oh, got the guitar out.
00:54:55.32\00:54:57.39
>>DAVID: I got a little
something, something for you.
00:54:57.39\00:54:59.13
>>TY: A little bit of
background music while we're
00:54:59.13\00:55:00.73
making the final point.
00:55:00.73\00:55:02.03
>>DAVID: The appeal song.
00:55:02.03\00:55:03.43
>>JEFFERY: The altar call.
00:55:03.43\00:55:04.93
>>TY: There is no question
at all in my mind that there are
00:55:04.93\00:55:07.14
people sitting in on
this conversation with us who
00:55:07.14\00:55:11.04
desperately hunger and thirst
to see that Gods' love and
00:55:11.04\00:55:18.58
grace and mercy cannot be
earned, precisely because you
00:55:18.58\00:55:23.02
already have it.
00:55:23.02\00:55:24.45
God already loves you,
God already has done something
00:55:24.45\00:55:29.02
monumental for you, for us, in
Christ, there's nothing we can
00:55:29.02\00:55:34.20
do to earn it.
00:55:34.20\00:55:35.43
Nothing we can do to earn it.
00:55:35.43\00:55:37.80
>>DAVID: So...
00:55:37.80\00:55:39.50
[Strums guitar]
00:55:39.50\00:55:41.10
>>TY: Go David.
00:55:41.10\00:55:42.37
>>ALL: ¤ When we've been there
ten thousand years, bright ¤
00:55:42.37\00:55:50.18
¤ shining as the sun.
00:55:50.18\00:55:57.92
¤ We've no less days to
sing God's praise then when we ¤
00:55:57.92\00:56:08.96
¤ first begun.
00:56:08.96\00:56:13.67
>>TY: Praise God, sola gracia.
00:56:13.67\00:56:16.34
[Music]
00:56:16.34\00:56:23.68