[Music]
00:00:00.26\00:00:10.27
[Music]
00:00:10.27\00:00:20.92
>>TY: Man, guys, it's so
great to be around this table
00:00:20.92\00:00:22.75
again.
00:00:22.75\00:00:24.25
Really kooky thing happened
to me, this guy walked up to me
00:00:24.25\00:00:27.89
not long ago at a meeting and
he said, man, I would love to
00:00:27.89\00:00:32.33
come and sit with you
guys around that table and have
00:00:32.33\00:00:35.73
those discussions that you
guys have all the time every
00:00:35.73\00:00:38.20
week, when should I come?
00:00:38.20\00:00:41.24
[Laughter]
00:00:41.24\00:00:42.40
And I had to explain to him,
no, we don't do this all the
00:00:42.40\00:00:45.24
time.
00:00:45.24\00:00:46.17
>>DAVID: I've
had the same thing.
00:00:46.17\00:00:47.58
>>TY: We're not
always around this table.
00:00:47.58\00:00:49.01
>>JEFFERY: I mean, we do this
all the time, but not around
00:00:49.01\00:00:50.15
this table.
00:00:50.15\00:00:51.38
>>TY: We do this all the time,
but not around this table, so
00:00:51.38\00:00:52.55
Table Talk is something that
we're doing for two reasons,
00:00:52.55\00:00:58.39
one because we just
enjoy one another's company and
00:00:58.39\00:00:59.59
exploring biblical ideas and
worldviews and the way people
00:00:59.59\00:01:05.13
are thinking, the way we're
thinking, but also we're doing
00:01:05.13\00:01:08.50
this because we're big
believers in something that's
00:01:08.50\00:01:11.03
gonna figure really
prominently into this
00:01:11.03\00:01:13.17
particular season five of
Table Talk and that is, we're
00:01:13.17\00:01:17.57
believers in what is referred
to as the priesthood of all
00:01:17.57\00:01:20.64
believers.
00:01:20.64\00:01:21.88
And what we mean by that is we
believe that the spirit of God
00:01:21.88\00:01:27.95
talks to people through people.
00:01:27.95\00:01:30.45
I had a guy say to me, I only
read the bible and he thought
00:01:30.45\00:01:34.89
that was a really
high thing to say.
00:01:34.89\00:01:36.89
>>DAVID: Yeah, a high standard.
00:01:36.89\00:01:38.06
>>TY: I said, well, if you
only read the bible, you would
00:01:38.06\00:01:40.56
come to that part in Ephesians
where Paul tells you to listen
00:01:40.56\00:01:45.93
to what other people who
aren't in the bible have to
00:01:45.93\00:01:48.07
say, that God has actually
put in the church teachers and
00:01:48.07\00:01:52.01
pastors and evangelists and
people who are given the gift
00:01:52.01\00:01:56.38
of pulling together
information and then
00:01:56.38\00:01:58.38
articulating it.
00:01:58.38\00:01:59.55
So, you really, in order to
take the highest ground, you
00:01:59.55\00:02:03.15
need to start
listening to other people.
00:02:03.15\00:02:05.15
You need to start listening
and reading outside of just
00:02:05.15\00:02:08.82
the bible because
people are being used by God.
00:02:08.82\00:02:11.19
>>JEFFERY: And you don't mean
those other people, pastors,
00:02:11.19\00:02:13.19
just regular people, right?
00:02:13.19\00:02:15.13
>>TY: Well, the priests...
00:02:15.13\00:02:16.13
>>DAVID: Pastors
are regular people, too.
00:02:16.13\00:02:18.13
>>TY: The priesthood of
all believers idea is just an
00:02:18.13\00:02:20.14
incredible thing.
00:02:20.14\00:02:21.24
It basically equates to
human beings cross pollinating
00:02:21.24\00:02:24.01
ideas.
00:02:24.01\00:02:25.41
There's no way that I can
understand any given topic
00:02:25.41\00:02:30.51
better by myself
than with you guys.
00:02:30.51\00:02:33.25
I'm gonna process anything
better if other people's
00:02:33.25\00:02:38.45
opinions are brought
on board with my opinion.
00:02:38.45\00:02:41.59
>>JEFFERY: That's
almost implied by the fact that
00:02:41.59\00:02:43.59
there's so many authors
that contributed to the bible.
00:02:43.59\00:02:45.59
>>TY: That's right.
00:02:45.59\00:02:46.59
With their
distinct personalities.
00:02:46.59\00:02:48.56
>>JEFFERY: It would've been
written by just one one person
00:02:48.56\00:02:50.57
otherwise.
00:02:50.57\00:02:51.73
>>TY: That's right, so,
yeah, it's just good to be here.
00:02:51.73\00:02:54.20
So, what are we
doing this time, Jeffrey?
00:02:54.20\00:02:56.84
Season five, at season five
Table Talk, what's our topic?
00:02:56.84\00:03:01.04
>>JAMES: Yeah, Jeffery,
what are we talking about?
00:03:01.04\00:03:03.04
>>JEFFERY: Reformation.
00:03:03.04\00:03:04.25
We're celebrating a 500 years
of revolution that happened
00:03:04.25\00:03:07.52
and that changed the way we
think and feel about God, and
00:03:07.52\00:03:10.99
so, throughout the series,
we're gonna be talking about
00:03:10.99\00:03:13.86
some foundational things
that sort of launch us into the
00:03:13.86\00:03:17.69
specific journey through
history in the church and
00:03:17.69\00:03:22.76
we're gonna get into theology
and history and expound on
00:03:22.76\00:03:27.07
scripture.
00:03:27.07\00:03:28.24
>>TY: So, we're just calling
this the reformation series,
00:03:28.24\00:03:30.57
for those who might not be
familiar with Table Talk, we
00:03:30.57\00:03:34.78
should maybe point out that
this is season five, we began
00:03:34.78\00:03:37.41
with what we called the big
picture series, then we moved
00:03:37.41\00:03:40.68
onto what, was righteousness
by faith series after that?
00:03:40.68\00:03:44.02
And then, hard
questions series, and then...
00:03:44.02\00:03:48.36
>>JEFFERY:
Revelation was season 4.
00:03:48.36\00:03:50.56
>>TY: Revelation, yeah.
00:03:50.56\00:03:51.93
So, this is season five, we're
gonna call it the reformation
00:03:51.93\00:03:56.26
series and we
have a reason for that.
00:03:56.26\00:03:58.27
This is the 500th anniversary
of the Protestant Reformation.
00:03:58.27\00:04:01.97
1517, in October, Martin Luther.
00:04:01.97\00:04:06.68
>>JAMES: Halloween.
00:04:06.68\00:04:07.88
>>TY: Yep, nailed 95 theses
to a church door in Europe, in
00:04:07.88\00:04:12.48
Germany, specifically, and so...
00:04:12.48\00:04:15.42
>>JAMES: Otherwise we'd
be doing Daniel right now.
00:04:15.42\00:04:16.85
>>TY: Otherwise we
would be doing Daniel.
00:04:16.85\00:04:18.39
>>JAMES: 'Cause we were
gonna do Daniel, remember that.
00:04:18.39\00:04:19.62
>>TY: That's true.
00:04:19.62\00:04:20.72
We did Revelation, now,
we're gonna go back to Daniel.
00:04:20.72\00:04:22.16
>>JEFFERY: But
Daniel will play into this.
00:04:22.16\00:04:24.63
>>JAMES: But we
still need to do Daniel.
00:04:24.63\00:04:26.26
>>TY: Someday.
00:04:26.26\00:04:27.93
So, yeah, this is incredible.
00:04:27.93\00:04:30.10
So, Protestant Reformation.
00:04:30.10\00:04:31.60
Let me just kind of set the
table so that we can just jump
00:04:31.60\00:04:34.50
right into it.
00:04:34.50\00:04:35.67
In this 13 part series,
these 13 discussions, we're not
00:04:35.67\00:04:41.21
gonna begin with Luther.
00:04:41.21\00:04:43.55
We can't begin with Luther
because Luther, Calvin, and
00:04:43.55\00:04:47.42
the various Protestant
reformers, all of them
00:04:47.42\00:04:50.19
represent a reformation, which
means they're not arising in
00:04:50.19\00:04:55.79
history in a vacuum.
00:04:55.79\00:04:58.06
There's something that
went before these reformers.
00:04:58.06\00:05:01.80
There's something
that needs to be reformed.
00:05:01.80\00:05:05.33
So, we're gonna back up
a step before them to...
00:05:05.33\00:05:07.70
>>JEFFERY: What was formed?
00:05:07.70\00:05:08.94
>>TY: Yeah, what was deformed
that needed to be reformed, I
00:05:08.94\00:05:12.11
guess we could say.
00:05:12.11\00:05:14.24
So, but we're gonna back
up even a step further because
00:05:14.24\00:05:17.71
the idea that there was and is
a reformation underway because
00:05:17.71\00:05:25.25
something was deformed
and needs to be reformed also
00:05:25.25\00:05:29.36
suggests even a prior step.
00:05:29.36\00:05:32.49
There was
something that is original.
00:05:32.49\00:05:34.46
There's something that
is, that was formed, and that
00:05:34.46\00:05:39.90
thing, we're going to explore
in this first session, and
00:05:39.90\00:05:45.14
we're gonna call this one,
for want of better language, I
00:05:45.14\00:05:48.18
dunno, this is descriptive
at least, we're gonna call this
00:05:48.18\00:05:51.98
session, Hebrew
roots Christianity.
00:05:51.98\00:05:57.62
Hebrew roots Christianity.
00:05:57.62\00:06:00.36
And all we mean by that
is that when we come to the
00:06:00.36\00:06:04.73
bible, we're dealing with God
inspiring prophets in the Old
00:06:04.73\00:06:12.47
Testament who were of the
Hebrew way of thinking and
00:06:12.47\00:06:17.74
processing reality that God
introduced first with Abraham,
00:06:17.74\00:06:21.88
calling him out and God led
him on a journey of thinking,
00:06:21.88\00:06:27.38
and then we have Moses and
the prophets and then, there's a
00:06:27.38\00:06:31.62
bridge between the
Old Testament and the New
00:06:31.62\00:06:34.19
Testament.
00:06:34.19\00:06:35.22
We come into the New
Testament, well, Jesus is a
00:06:35.22\00:06:37.96
Hebrew.
00:06:37.96\00:06:39.36
And all of the writers of
the New Testament, with perhaps
00:06:39.36\00:06:43.00
the exception of Luke, were
Hebrews, they were all Jewish.
00:06:43.00\00:06:46.84
There's a certain way
of thinking on display in
00:06:46.84\00:06:50.47
scripture.
00:06:50.47\00:06:51.57
There's a certain way of
processing reality and seeing
00:06:51.57\00:06:55.68
God and seeing human beings
and that's the original thing
00:06:55.68\00:07:00.32
that we're going to
explore first of all.
00:07:00.32\00:07:03.05
So, let's just
jump right into that.
00:07:03.05\00:07:05.62
What is Hebrew
roots Christianity?
00:07:05.62\00:07:09.96
Again, for want of a
better term, we could call it
00:07:09.96\00:07:12.53
something else, I don't know
00:07:12.53\00:07:13.70
-- >>DAVID: No, I like it.
00:07:13.70\00:07:14.46
>>TY: What else
you would wanna...
00:07:14.46\00:07:15.73
>>JEFFERY: You played
around with the word covenant.
00:07:15.73\00:07:17.83
>>TY: Covenant Christianity,
there's a backdrop, there's a
00:07:17.83\00:07:19.67
stage, what is the stage that
is set by the Old and the New
00:07:19.67\00:07:23.20
Testament?
00:07:23.20\00:07:23.94
I guess that's the question.
00:07:23.94\00:07:26.47
I guess that's the question.
00:07:26.47\00:07:26.88
>>DAVID: Well, it's a
giant question and I love the
00:07:27.58\00:07:29.74
direction we're going here
to sort of establish what needed
00:07:29.74\00:07:33.65
to be reformed, which implies
something was deformed, so
00:07:33.65\00:07:36.62
something was formed.
00:07:36.62\00:07:37.62
I like that.
00:07:37.62\00:07:38.65
And when you ask the
question, what is covenantal
00:07:38.65\00:07:41.39
Christianity or Hebrew roots
Christianity, that's kind of,
00:07:41.39\00:07:45.16
I think, what we discussed
in our whole first series, the
00:07:45.16\00:07:47.56
bigger picture.
00:07:47.56\00:07:48.70
It was a walkthrough of the
passage, all of the passages
00:07:48.70\00:07:53.27
of scripture, many of the
passages of scripture that
00:07:53.27\00:07:55.84
describe this idea that God
is interactive with, let us make
00:07:55.84\00:08:00.41
man in our image, there's this
intense, intimate relationally
00:08:00.41\00:08:04.95
between the
creator and the creation.
00:08:04.95\00:08:07.35
And not just any
general relationally, but a
00:08:07.35\00:08:10.65
relationally that is analogous
to that we relate to one
00:08:10.65\00:08:13.96
another.
00:08:13.96\00:08:15.19
So, like, you have Abraham as
the friend of God and Moses as
00:08:15.19\00:08:17.73
the friend of God, you see,
for example, God speaking to
00:08:17.73\00:08:21.20
people, God listening to
people, God negotiating with
00:08:21.20\00:08:25.00
people, sitting down under
a tree and eating with people.
00:08:25.00\00:08:27.94
And so, you have this,
really, I think it's unexpected.
00:08:27.94\00:08:31.74
I think if we didn't have
the Hebrew Old Testament, and
00:08:31.74\00:08:34.48
we'll get into this
later, you wouldn't expect that.
00:08:34.48\00:08:37.08
And certainly the New
Testament, you don't have the
00:08:37.08\00:08:39.08
expectation, whoa, whoa, whoa,
wait a minute, so, God becomes
00:08:39.08\00:08:41.58
a man and he's like sitting
at tables and he's going to
00:08:41.58\00:08:44.15
weddings and he's, what?
00:08:44.15\00:08:45.82
>>TY: I mean, there's one
verse in the New Testament
00:08:45.82\00:08:48.29
that's mind blowing, it
says that, these are the words,
00:08:48.29\00:08:52.09
Jesus came eating and
drinking, quote unquote.
00:08:52.09\00:08:56.03
God came out of, you know,
whatever realm God came out of
00:08:56.03\00:09:02.34
and came to our
world eating and drinking.
00:09:02.34\00:09:05.94
That's Hebrew thought.
00:09:05.94\00:09:07.31
>>JAMES: Do we see
that in the Old Testament?
00:09:07.31\00:09:08.71
>>TY: We see that
in the Old Testament.
00:09:08.71\00:09:11.15
>>DAVID: Well, I was just
alluding to that, when I said,
00:09:11.15\00:09:12.28
he comes down, he's sitting
under trees, he's eating,
00:09:12.28\00:09:13.58
that's with Abraham, he
sees the three people that are
00:09:13.58\00:09:15.25
journeying.
00:09:15.25\00:09:16.38
>>JEFFERY: At least in the
tabernacle, where it says in
00:09:16.38\00:09:18.12
Exodus, where it says,
and God tabernacled with men.
00:09:18.12\00:09:21.89
He basically pitched his
tent in the backyard of the
00:09:21.89\00:09:25.66
Israelite camp.
00:09:25.66\00:09:26.70
So, there's that
relational proximity at least.
00:09:26.70\00:09:30.10
You see God
eating at a table, but...
00:09:30.10\00:09:32.13
>>DAVID: You used a
word there, you used the word
00:09:32.13\00:09:34.64
proximity, I used a word
intimacy, so I'm just gonna
00:09:34.64\00:09:37.07
put that onto the table and
sort of, for me, when I think
00:09:37.07\00:09:40.11
about the Hebrew roots of
Christianity, is that you have
00:09:40.11\00:09:42.34
at one level, you
certainly have a transcendence.
00:09:42.34\00:09:45.21
God is other, God is God, God
is divine, he is not created.
00:09:45.21\00:09:49.38
Okay, that's true, set
that there, but the other thing
00:09:49.38\00:09:52.15
that's true is that there's
this proximity, this intimacy.
00:09:52.15\00:09:55.42
God is close to his
creation, he's interested in his
00:09:55.42\00:09:59.73
creation, he's invested in
his creation, so I'm gonna say,
00:09:59.73\00:10:03.43
for me, that's like one of the
major talking points of Hebrew
00:10:03.43\00:10:09.14
roots Christianity.
00:10:09.14\00:10:10.24
>>TY: I'll just call our
attention then, to 3 points in
00:10:10.24\00:10:13.27
the book of Genesis, the first
part of Genesis that really
00:10:13.27\00:10:15.74
makes this point about what
it means for God to be the kind
00:10:15.74\00:10:20.65
of God that the Hebrew
prophets described him to be.
00:10:20.65\00:10:23.52
Genesis 1:1, in the beginning,
God, the name there is Elohim,
00:10:23.52\00:10:28.32
it's a plural noun, God
is some kind of plurality.
00:10:28.32\00:10:31.83
Verse 2, God, the spirit moves
upon the face of the waters.
00:10:31.83\00:10:36.33
Chapter 1, verses 26 and
27, this God who is Elohim, who
00:10:36.33\00:10:42.54
moves upon creation, creates
human beings in his own image
00:10:42.54\00:10:48.24
and that image is the male
and the female with procreative
00:10:48.24\00:10:51.61
ability.
00:10:51.61\00:10:52.65
And then, in chapter 3,
it says that this God came
00:10:52.65\00:10:56.45
occasionally and walked in the
cool of the day in the Garden.
00:10:56.45\00:11:01.66
So, there's the picture.
00:11:01.66\00:11:02.96
If you wanna know how the
Hebrew mind thinks about God,
00:11:02.96\00:11:06.06
the Hebrew mind thinks
about God as coming among,
00:11:06.06\00:11:09.76
interacting with, having
interest in the affairs of
00:11:09.76\00:11:14.60
human beings.
00:11:14.60\00:11:15.80
>>JAMES: It even sounds like
in Genesis chapter 2 that God
00:11:15.80\00:11:18.44
creates a special day
to meet with his creation.
00:11:18.44\00:11:21.01
>>TY: Exactly.
00:11:21.01\00:11:22.11
>>JAMES: The seventh day
is a day that's blessed and
00:11:22.11\00:11:24.15
sanctified rest, don't work,
don't get distracted, let's
00:11:24.15\00:11:27.65
worship, let's
hang out together.
00:11:27.65\00:11:29.65
>>TY: Yes, so,
there's fellowship.
00:11:29.65\00:11:31.65
>>JAMES: Yeah.
00:11:31.65\00:11:32.89
>>TY: This is such a beautiful
picture and then, if you have
00:11:32.89\00:11:36.46
that background, you're
not surprised when God comes
00:11:36.46\00:11:39.66
incarnate in Christ
in the New Testament.
00:11:39.66\00:11:41.80
>>JEFFERY: Well said.
00:11:41.80\00:11:43.53
>>DAVID: If you read Genesis
and jump straight to Matthew,
00:11:43.53\00:11:47.27
if you read Genesis to
Matthew, you're not surprised.
00:11:47.27\00:11:49.60
In other words, Jesus showing
up in a manger, Jesus showing
00:11:49.60\00:11:53.27
up in the temple, talking,
walking, in the you know,
00:11:53.27\00:11:55.88
dusty roads of Palestine,
you're not like, whoa, this is
00:11:55.88\00:11:59.25
crazy, no, this is very,
you know, you highlighted these
00:11:59.25\00:12:02.75
verbs, he speaks, he
moves, he creates, he walks.
00:12:02.75\00:12:05.99
You could say that very same
thing about Jesus, he spoke.
00:12:05.99\00:12:09.06
>>TY: And even in one of
the parts, breathes into the
00:12:09.06\00:12:11.06
nostrils.
00:12:11.06\00:12:12.06
That's some
proximity right there.
00:12:12.06\00:12:14.03
>>JEFFERY: Even if you jump
from Exodus to John, we talked
00:12:14.03\00:12:16.23
about him tabernacling,
however you wanna say that
00:12:16.23\00:12:20.04
word, in the Old
Testament, then you would not be
00:12:20.04\00:12:23.57
surprised, to use your
phrasing, in John 1, where it
00:12:23.57\00:12:27.11
says, when Jesus shows up,
this is the word made flesh
00:12:27.11\00:12:30.51
and he dwelt.
00:12:30.51\00:12:31.81
>>DAVID: Tabernacled.
00:12:31.81\00:12:33.01
>>JEFFERY: We've talked about
this before, he tabernacled
00:12:33.01\00:12:34.82
among us.
00:12:34.82\00:12:35.95
So, again, anybody reading
with that lens reads John 1
00:12:35.95\00:12:39.75
and says, of course, you know,
you couldn't see it any other
00:12:39.75\00:12:43.83
way.
00:12:43.83\00:12:45.06
>>DAVID: I just had a thought
on that and this'll maybe take
00:12:45.06\00:12:47.13
us slightly afield so,
I'll just say this briefly.
00:12:47.13\00:12:50.33
Sometimes, in Christianity,
or in the reading of scripture,
00:12:50.33\00:12:52.97
this hostility or this tension
that is set between the Old
00:12:52.97\00:12:56.91
and the New Testaments.
00:12:56.91\00:12:58.11
The Old Testament God sort
of comes off like this, the New
00:12:58.11\00:13:01.48
Testament God like this.
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.61
Okay, just, I don't need
to get into that conversation
00:13:02.61\00:13:04.68
right now, I think we've
dealt with that, maybe we will
00:13:04.68\00:13:06.68
again, but just on these
points, there is similarity,
00:13:06.68\00:13:09.78
God is behaving in similar
ways, he's speaking, he's
00:13:09.78\00:13:11.92
moving, he's creating,
he's walking, he's talking, he's
00:13:11.92\00:13:13.92
proximate, he's invested,
so we don't see dissimilarity
00:13:13.92\00:13:17.36
between the Old and the New
Testaments, we see similarity.
00:13:17.36\00:13:19.59
God is doing the same kinds
of things, he's tabernacling
00:13:19.59\00:13:21.56
there, he's tabernacling here.
00:13:21.56\00:13:22.56
Speaking there, speaking here.
00:13:22.56\00:13:23.93
>>TY: It's incredible.
00:13:23.93\00:13:27.07
So, the God of, do we say
the God of the Old Testament?
00:13:27.07\00:13:33.14
>>JEFFERY: Yeah.
00:13:33.14\00:13:34.34
>>TY: Yeah, the God of the
Old Testament isn't the austere,
00:13:34.34\00:13:38.35
angry, distant God that
oftentimes people make God of
00:13:38.35\00:13:43.42
the Old Testament out to
be, the God of the Old Testament
00:13:43.42\00:13:46.05
is very personal, very
present, very interested in
00:13:46.05\00:13:51.79
human beings,
interested in fellowship.
00:13:51.79\00:13:54.20
I think it's mind blowing
that when God decides that he's
00:13:54.20\00:13:58.53
going to do something on
earth, the scripture says in
00:13:58.53\00:14:02.77
Genesis that, he says,
I'm gonna go talk to Abraham
00:14:02.77\00:14:05.01
first, I'm gonna go talk to
Abraham, and Abraham has this
00:14:05.01\00:14:10.81
posture toward God, he
knows God in such a way that he
00:14:10.81\00:14:15.12
feels at liberty to move
through a dickering process, a
00:14:15.12\00:14:18.15
negotiation process, well,
God, far be it from you to do
00:14:18.15\00:14:22.46
this thing that you're saying
you're gonna do, but then you
00:14:22.46\00:14:24.69
have this idea in the
story that God's listening to
00:14:24.69\00:14:27.96
Abraham.
00:14:27.96\00:14:28.93
Because Abraham
says, what if there are 50?
00:14:28.93\00:14:31.03
And God capitulates to a man.
00:14:31.03\00:14:33.97
God says, yeah, if there's 50,
and then, 40, and then, 30, or
00:14:33.97\00:14:38.27
however it goes, it
gets all the way down to 10.
00:14:38.27\00:14:41.74
You have, God is the one in
process of moving toward the
00:14:41.74\00:14:45.61
man.
00:14:45.61\00:14:46.65
>>JEFFERY: You get the
impression that God wanted
00:14:46.65\00:14:48.62
that sort of
creative interaction.
00:14:48.62\00:14:50.62
>>TY: It's not irreverent.
00:14:50.62\00:14:51.75
>>JEFFERY: A bit of weird
thought, you mentioned that
00:14:51.75\00:14:54.02
some people project a certain
God to the Old Testament, it's
00:14:54.02\00:14:57.29
not really there,
distant, inaccessible.
00:14:57.29\00:14:59.53
I wonder if the creepy
verses in the Old Testament, you
00:14:59.53\00:15:03.06
know, the stuff that makes
people feel uncomfortable, I
00:15:03.06\00:15:05.07
wonder if that's actually
indicative of God is so into
00:15:05.07\00:15:08.77
the messiness, you
feel what I'm saying?
00:15:08.77\00:15:12.81
>>TY: Yeah, exactly.
00:15:12.81\00:15:14.01
>>JEFFERY: God is getting
his hands dirty to such a degree
00:15:14.01\00:15:16.18
that we get those passages
that really disturb us and
00:15:16.18\00:15:19.55
maybe that's not evidence of
a distant, inaccessible God, but
00:15:19.55\00:15:23.12
maybe the opposite.
00:15:23.12\00:15:24.65
Maybe God is too wrapped up
in the messiness of humanity.
00:15:24.65\00:15:28.46
And maybe that's why
those verses are so scary.
00:15:28.46\00:15:31.49
>>DAVID: Well, man,
you're tempting me to go down...
00:15:31.49\00:15:35.30
>>JAMES: Well,
before you go there...
00:15:35.30\00:15:37.30
>>DAVID: I won't go down
right now, but I think you're
00:15:37.30\00:15:39.30
exactly right, what we have
is, and the language I'll use
00:15:39.30\00:15:41.30
here is immersive.
00:15:41.30\00:15:43.41
The picture that we have of
God is so totally immersive in
00:15:43.41\00:15:46.84
the human situation that
sometimes, you're like, whoa,
00:15:46.84\00:15:50.05
because God is in a continual
set, I just finished a series
00:15:50.05\00:15:52.61
on Jonah in my local
church, God is continually
00:15:52.61\00:15:56.52
accommodating and
zigging to Jonah's zagging.
00:15:56.52\00:15:59.52
Like, okay, alright, okay.
00:15:59.52\00:16:01.49
So, you ask yourself, just
as an example, why does God put
00:16:01.49\00:16:04.09
one of his prophets
in the belly of a fish?
00:16:04.09\00:16:06.56
Okay, that's not God's natural
inclination, hey, I'm gonna,
00:16:06.56\00:16:09.40
you know what I'm gonna do?
00:16:09.40\00:16:10.53
I'm gonna stick one of my
beloved into the belly of a
00:16:10.53\00:16:12.43
fish, but when the beloved
creates a situation where the
00:16:12.43\00:16:15.77
only way out, or the way out,
because the fish becomes a way
00:16:15.77\00:16:18.97
of salvation out of the storm,
so God is now accommodating,
00:16:18.97\00:16:23.04
or zigging in relationship
to Jonah's zagging, you follow
00:16:23.04\00:16:27.72
there?
00:16:27.72\00:16:29.08
So, God's immersive,
like, Ty's talking here Genesis
00:16:29.08\00:16:33.76
chapter 18, the question
that God asks is how can I hide
00:16:33.76\00:16:37.43
this thing that I'm going to
do from Abraham, since Abraham
00:16:37.43\00:16:40.16
is my guy that I'm gonna bless?
00:16:40.16\00:16:41.76
That is an immersiveness,
that is a mutuality that you're
00:16:41.76\00:16:45.57
like what?
00:16:45.57\00:16:46.63
>>JEFFERY: Shocking by
even New Testament standards,
00:16:46.63\00:16:48.67
really.
00:16:48.67\00:16:49.84
>>JAMES: Yeah, so, here's
something, here's a verse that
00:16:49.84\00:16:51.67
might tie this together,
so James 3:7 says, surely the
00:16:51.67\00:16:54.31
Lord God will do nothing
except he reveals his secret
00:16:54.31\00:16:57.21
to his servant.
00:16:57.21\00:16:58.35
So, these prophets, these
weak, vacillating, you know,
00:16:58.35\00:17:01.38
human prophets, they go in
these different directions,
00:17:01.38\00:17:03.92
but God's like, well, I gotta,
I gotta communicate through
00:17:03.92\00:17:06.22
him.
00:17:06.22\00:17:07.39
I've gotta use Ezekiel, I've
gotta use Daniel, I've gotta
00:17:07.39\00:17:09.22
use Jonah, I've gotta use Jonah.
00:17:09.22\00:17:11.23
How do I do that?
00:17:11.23\00:17:12.63
>>DAVID: How do I use David,
how do I use James, I gotta
00:17:12.63\00:17:14.46
use James.
00:17:14.46\00:17:16.23
>>JAMES: Yeah, yeah, and so,
God is coming down and dealing
00:17:16.23\00:17:20.27
with our humanity in the
way that he's communicating, but
00:17:20.27\00:17:22.94
the message is still there.
00:17:22.94\00:17:24.07
The message is still solid.
00:17:24.07\00:17:25.41
>>TY: Well, this is a good
start, let's just take a break
00:17:25.41\00:17:27.54
and we'll come right back.
00:17:27.54\00:17:29.41
[Music]
00:17:29.41\00:17:40.32
>>This is the story of
Niyima, who took a bus to the
00:17:40.32\00:17:46.23
doctor and found a piece of
paper with words of hope about
00:17:46.23\00:17:50.63
Jesus, which was left by a
church member who unpacked a
00:17:50.63\00:17:54.97
box that came from a
truck which drove in from Durban
00:17:54.97\00:17:59.47
where a ship was docked
that sailed from Seattle, loaded
00:17:59.47\00:18:03.65
with containers stacked
high with millions of tracts,
00:18:03.65\00:18:07.65
trucked in from the
Light Bearers Publishing House,
00:18:07.65\00:18:11.09
where more than 600 million
pieces of gospel literature
00:18:11.09\00:18:14.76
have been
printed in 42 languages.
00:18:14.76\00:18:17.83
Here's the amazing thing,
Light Bearers distributes this
00:18:17.83\00:18:21.50
literature free of charge all
over the world, and each piece
00:18:21.50\00:18:26.57
costs only 5 pennies to
print, transport, and deliver.
00:18:26.57\00:18:30.14
Every day, millions of people
buy a $5 cup of coffee, $5 a
00:18:30.14\00:18:37.45
cup, 5 days a week.
00:18:37.45\00:18:40.35
It adds up fast.
00:18:40.35\00:18:41.62
But at just 5 cents apiece,
that same $25 can also ship
00:18:41.62\00:18:47.59
500 pieces of literature
and give hope to people like
00:18:47.59\00:18:53.16
Niyima, who shared that paper
with a classmate, who gave it
00:18:53.16\00:18:57.57
to her cousin, who shared
it with his boss, who passed it
00:18:57.57\00:19:01.84
to her grandmother, who
left it on another bus, where it
00:19:01.84\00:19:06.51
will be found by someone else.
00:19:06.51\00:19:09.54
And the story continues.
00:19:09.54\00:19:11.11
Five cents doesn't buy a lot
these days, but in other parts
00:19:11.11\00:19:16.82
of the world, your nickel
could change someone's life.
00:19:16.82\00:19:21.09
Your gift of $25 a month
sends out 6,000 pieces of gospel
00:19:21.09\00:19:25.56
literature each year.
00:19:25.56\00:19:27.66
Fifty dollars sends out
12,000, and $100 a month sends
00:19:27.66\00:19:32.53
out 24,000 messages of
hope every year, all over the
00:19:32.53\00:19:38.54
world.
00:19:38.54\00:19:39.47
Empower Light Bearers
to continue the story.
00:19:39.47\00:19:42.78
Send your gift through
lightbearers.org, or by
00:19:42.78\00:19:45.98
calling 877-585-1111.
00:19:45.98\00:19:51.42
Who knew 5 little
pennies could do so much?
00:19:51.42\00:19:54.76
[Music]
00:19:54.76\00:20:01.86
>>TY: So, I wanna throw some
scripture on the table for us
00:20:01.86\00:20:03.87
to consider.
00:20:03.87\00:20:04.97
We're trying to define
what we mean when we use this
00:20:04.97\00:20:09.64
language, Hebrew thought.
00:20:09.64\00:20:10.97
How did the Old Testament
prophets think about God, the
00:20:10.97\00:20:15.48
world, the
universe, human beings?
00:20:15.48\00:20:17.48
Okay.
00:20:17.48\00:20:18.55
There is one word in the
Old Testament that occurs to
00:20:18.55\00:20:22.52
describe the essence of
who God is, by Hebrew prophets,
00:20:22.52\00:20:25.75
more than any other word, and
that word is hesed, H-E-S-E-D.
00:20:25.75\00:20:28.56
Like, 260 times, that word
is used, and when that word is
00:20:28.56\00:20:34.36
used over and over and over
again to describe God, we get
00:20:34.36\00:20:38.43
a very clear
picture of what God this is.
00:20:38.43\00:20:41.00
Let me just give you some
examples here that are verses
00:20:41.00\00:20:44.57
in which this word is used.
00:20:44.57\00:20:46.61
Lots of people are familiar
with Psalm 23, the Lord is my
00:20:46.61\00:20:50.11
shepherd, I shall not want,
he makes me to lie down in green
00:20:50.11\00:20:52.71
pastures, et cetera.
00:20:52.71\00:20:53.78
The entire description,
you guys, is hyper personal.
00:20:53.78\00:20:57.52
God is doing things, he's
interacting, and then, the
00:20:57.52\00:21:00.66
last verse, it says, verse
6, surely goodness and mercy,
00:21:00.66\00:21:05.66
that's the word hesed.
00:21:05.66\00:21:06.96
>>JAMES: What is?
00:21:06.96\00:21:07.96
Which one?
00:21:07.96\00:21:08.93
>>TY: Mercy.
00:21:08.93\00:21:10.13
Surely goodness and mercy will
follow me all the days of my
00:21:10.13\00:21:11.93
life, and the word follow
there is a synonym for like,
00:21:11.93\00:21:17.74
pursue.
00:21:17.74\00:21:19.57
Literally David perceives
God's hesed, that defines the
00:21:19.57\00:21:24.08
character of God for him,
as an attribute or a definition
00:21:24.08\00:21:28.62
of God's character that has
the God of the universe, the
00:21:28.62\00:21:32.29
one who is completely above
and beyond human beings as the
00:21:32.29\00:21:36.73
creator to creatures, is
actually pursuing us with his
00:21:36.73\00:21:42.93
hesed.
00:21:42.93\00:21:43.93
Okay, here's another one.
00:21:43.93\00:21:45.00
I'm just gonna throw
these out for discussion here.
00:21:45.00\00:21:46.94
What about Psalm 26 and verse 3?
00:21:46.94\00:21:52.47
For your loving kindness,
that's hesed, is before my
00:21:52.47\00:21:56.64
eyes, and I have
walked in your truth.
00:21:56.64\00:21:59.68
Okay, so, here, you have
this relationship, sorry, that's
00:21:59.68\00:22:02.95
chapter 26, verse 3.
00:22:02.95\00:22:04.52
So, now, David is saying, your
hesed is before my eyes, I'm
00:22:04.52\00:22:09.46
contemplating it, I'm thinking
about you the way you are,
00:22:09.46\00:22:12.39
God, your hesed is having
an affect on me, is moving upon
00:22:12.39\00:22:17.87
me so that I am responding
by walking in your truth.
00:22:17.87\00:22:21.40
So, there's a dynamic
relationship that the Hebrew
00:22:21.40\00:22:24.27
prophets are describing
between the human being and
00:22:24.27\00:22:27.21
God.
00:22:27.21\00:22:28.44
>>JEFFERY: And more than that,
I wonder if your truth is your
00:22:28.44\00:22:31.68
hesed.
00:22:31.68\00:22:32.68
Maybe those are
parallel statements.
00:22:32.68\00:22:34.68
>>TY: Well, hesed in that
is loving kindness, truth is
00:22:34.68\00:22:39.19
emeth.
00:22:39.19\00:22:40.39
>>JEFFERY: What I'm saying,
not the same word, but they're
00:22:40.39\00:22:42.22
referring to, like, God's
truth is this characteristic
00:22:42.22\00:22:45.46
of his character,
you see what I'm saying?
00:22:45.46\00:22:47.46
>>TY: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:22:47.46\00:22:48.43
But do you see the
dynamic relationship there?
00:22:48.43\00:22:51.23
And in the Old Testament, is
full of the usage of this word
00:22:51.23\00:22:54.20
and the word hesed, this is so
crucial, the word hesed is the
00:22:54.20\00:23:01.28
word in the Old Testament
the Hebrew prophets use to
00:23:01.28\00:23:05.25
describe the fact that God
is relational and dynamic in his
00:23:05.25\00:23:09.12
interactions with human beings.
00:23:09.12\00:23:11.02
>>JEFFERY: What do
you mean by dynamic?
00:23:11.02\00:23:12.05
Maybe you
should break that down.
00:23:12.05\00:23:13.19
>>DAVID: Well, I think
it's the thing we were talking
00:23:13.19\00:23:14.52
about, yeah, it's the idea
that we were talking about,
00:23:14.52\00:23:16.69
God's accommodating.
00:23:16.69\00:23:18.39
Jonah does this, God does this.
00:23:18.39\00:23:19.59
Abraham does this, dynamic
is, if this relationship wasn't
00:23:19.59\00:23:22.86
dynamic, it would just be Ty
speaking or you speaking, but
00:23:22.86\00:23:24.97
when we're all and then you
say something, and then, and
00:23:24.97\00:23:28.30
God is in that relationship.
00:23:28.30\00:23:30.34
>>TY: So, God's not
unilateral, he's bilateral,
00:23:30.34\00:23:32.91
he's saying, I'm saying
something to David, eliciting
00:23:32.91\00:23:36.81
a response from David.
00:23:36.81\00:23:38.51
>>DAVID: But now, here's
the big question, and maybe you
00:23:38.51\00:23:41.15
don't wanna go there yet,
but the question is, is God then
00:23:41.15\00:23:44.49
affected by, or
moved by my response?
00:23:44.49\00:23:48.56
>>TY: And I would say that the
Hebrew prophets would say yes.
00:23:48.56\00:23:51.06
>>DAVID: Well, clearly, but,
and we're gonna get into that,
00:23:51.06\00:23:53.73
which, I can't wait, but
clearly, if you just read
00:23:53.73\00:23:55.76
scripture, you have a
reciprocity, a mutuality
00:23:55.76\00:23:58.87
there.
00:23:58.87\00:24:00.14
I speak, oh, yeah, good point,
good point, you used Abraham
00:24:00.14\00:24:02.20
as an example.
00:24:02.20\00:24:03.54
What if there were 50?
00:24:03.54\00:24:04.71
What if there were 40?
00:24:04.71\00:24:05.71
There's a dickering
process, as you called it.
00:24:05.71\00:24:07.71
That is mutual,
that's going both ways.
00:24:07.71\00:24:09.71
>>TY: It's incredible.
00:24:09.71\00:24:10.71
>>DAVID: Absolutely incredible.
00:24:10.71\00:24:11.81
>>TY: The Hebrew scholars,
you know, post Moses and the
00:24:11.81\00:24:16.32
prophets, looked at this
and said, hey, there's something
00:24:16.32\00:24:19.52
going on here.
00:24:19.52\00:24:20.72
The God of Genesis is a
God who engages in something
00:24:20.72\00:24:25.26
called, this is not a biblical
word, but it's a Hebrew word,
00:24:25.26\00:24:28.10
zimzum.
00:24:28.10\00:24:30.27
The zimzum idea.
00:24:30.27\00:24:32.33
>>JEFFERY: That is a cool word.
00:24:32.33\00:24:33.57
>>TY: Okay, here's the zimzum
idea, it simply means that, in
00:24:33.57\00:24:37.71
order for God to create in
Genesis, to create spaces and
00:24:37.71\00:24:41.91
creatures to inhabit
those spaces, it was necessary
00:24:41.91\00:24:45.08
because God is so mammoth,
so huge, so pervasive, so God,
00:24:45.08\00:24:48.85
that in order for God to
create others, God necessarily
00:24:48.85\00:24:52.59
had to recede, to give space
for your existence and for my
00:24:52.59\00:24:56.12
existence.
00:24:56.12\00:24:57.13
>>DAVID: I love that.
00:24:57.13\00:24:58.13
>>TY: You see that?
00:24:58.13\00:24:59.33
So, God could be so imminent
over us, so overpowering, so,
00:24:59.33\00:25:03.47
that we couldn't think.
00:25:03.47\00:25:05.63
>>DAVID: Of course.
00:25:05.63\00:25:06.84
>>TY: That we couldn't, if
God were, right now, sitting at
00:25:06.84\00:25:08.94
this table, we
would all be silent.
00:25:08.94\00:25:12.01
We think we know
something, and so, we're having
00:25:12.01\00:25:16.04
discussions, but in God's
presence, it's like walking,
00:25:16.04\00:25:19.35
it's like you're standing at
a blackboard, doing mathematical
00:25:19.35\00:25:22.42
problems for a class and
Einstein walks in the room.
00:25:22.42\00:25:25.92
Your immediate response is to
be silent, put the chalk down,
00:25:25.92\00:25:28.56
sit down and give him the board.
00:25:28.56\00:25:31.26
So, God necessarily
zimzums in our relationship.
00:25:31.26\00:25:35.43
He creates and in creating, he
backs up so that we can exist.
00:25:35.43\00:25:40.47
>>JEFFERY: So, he would
literally sit at this table
00:25:40.47\00:25:42.47
and say, I'm interested
in what you guys have to say.
00:25:42.47\00:25:44.47
>>TY: Exactly.
00:25:44.47\00:25:45.64
>>DAVID: So, to illustrate,
I've used an illustration, I
00:25:45.64\00:25:47.48
don't know that word and
hadn't heard it until this
00:25:47.48\00:25:49.48
point, but the illustration
that I've used with people on
00:25:49.48\00:25:51.48
many occasions is, imagine,
like, this room, this studio,
00:25:51.48\00:25:55.15
if you had a balloon, a
single balloon that filled every
00:25:55.15\00:25:59.42
space, there's one balloon and
it filled up every nook, every
00:25:59.42\00:26:03.12
cranny, every molecule of
available space, if God then
00:26:03.12\00:26:05.89
opted to create another, an
agent, not just a mountain or
00:26:05.89\00:26:09.76
a stream or a planet or,
you know, a star, but an agent
00:26:09.76\00:26:12.83
that can act, that can think.
00:26:12.83\00:26:13.94
>>TY: A person.
00:26:13.94\00:26:14.94
>>DAVID: A person.
00:26:14.94\00:26:16.14
In order for that to happen,
that one balloon has to recede
00:26:16.14\00:26:20.24
in order to make
space for the new balloon.
00:26:20.24\00:26:22.71
You still have the biggest
balloon which is God, and
00:26:22.71\00:26:24.71
then, he makes 2, 3, 4, 5,
so, one really cool way to think
00:26:24.71\00:26:28.95
about that is that your
freedom is a concession on
00:26:28.95\00:26:33.66
God's part of his power.
00:26:33.66\00:26:36.26
>>TY: Exactly.
00:26:36.26\00:26:37.66
>>DAVID: I love
that idea, the recession.
00:26:37.66\00:26:40.36
He's coming back so that he
creates space, actual space,
00:26:40.36\00:26:43.50
intimate space for us to exist.
00:26:43.50\00:26:47.17
A thought on that, so, you
used this language, and I love
00:26:47.17\00:26:50.84
this, Ty, this idea that
God in who he is, is above and
00:26:50.84\00:26:54.68
beyond.
00:26:54.68\00:26:55.84
That's the language that
you used, above and beyond, but
00:26:55.84\00:26:57.38
that's not the, I mean,
there is a sense in which we get
00:26:57.38\00:26:59.38
that transcendent picture
in scripture, but we also get
00:26:59.38\00:27:01.38
this proximate, intimate,
relational, messy picture, so,
00:27:01.38\00:27:04.25
how about this, tell me if you
like this or if you hate this.
00:27:04.25\00:27:06.79
So, God's aboveness and
beyondness, his otherness, is
00:27:06.79\00:27:10.06
what God is.
00:27:10.06\00:27:11.73
>>TY: Yes.
00:27:11.73\00:27:12.83
>>DAVID: And God's down at
the table, sitting, talking,
00:27:12.83\00:27:16.70
communicating, interacting,
negotiating, that is who God
00:27:16.70\00:27:21.07
is.
00:27:21.07\00:27:22.04
So, we're dealing with
God in his nature as an
00:27:22.04\00:27:25.14
incomprehensible other and
God, in his personhood as an
00:27:25.14\00:27:28.98
agent who moves and talks
and speaks and breathes and
00:27:28.98\00:27:32.61
receives.
00:27:32.61\00:27:33.98
You hate that or you love it?
00:27:33.98\00:27:34.98
>>TY: I love
that, his character.
00:27:34.98\00:27:36.99
>>DAVID: God can't
be other than he is.
00:27:36.99\00:27:39.55
He's not at liberty
to change his nature.
00:27:39.55\00:27:42.02
I can't be other than I am.
00:27:42.02\00:27:43.16
>>JEFFERY: So, nature and
character, that's basically
00:27:43.16\00:27:45.19
what you're saying.
00:27:45.19\00:27:46.19
One in nature and
this is character.
00:27:46.19\00:27:48.16
>>DAVID: And they're not
intention, but God in his
00:27:48.16\00:27:51.40
nature, forget it.
00:27:51.40\00:27:52.90
Forget it.
00:27:52.90\00:27:54.10
And this is where we're gonna
see later, this is where the
00:27:54.10\00:27:55.90
Greeks get off.
00:27:55.90\00:27:56.91
Like, God, forget
it, he's holy other.
00:27:56.91\00:27:58.91
Okay.
00:27:58.91\00:28:00.21
But the God that's painted
in scripture, it's not that he's
00:28:00.21\00:28:02.48
not that.
00:28:02.48\00:28:03.68
He is that, but here he is,
he's talking and his goodness
00:28:03.68\00:28:07.22
and mercy follows me.
00:28:07.22\00:28:08.65
>>JEFFERY: That's
good, I think that's clear.
00:28:08.65\00:28:10.65
>>JAMES: That's
what Jesus came to show.
00:28:10.65\00:28:13.09
>>DAVID: Yes.
00:28:13.09\00:28:14.26
>>JAMES: Jesus came to show,
he's the perfect example of
00:28:14.26\00:28:17.03
what you call zimzum, zimzum.
00:28:17.03\00:28:18.39
He came to show us two things,
one is, the word is made flesh
00:28:18.39\00:28:22.56
and dwelt among us, he came
to show us who God is, but then,
00:28:22.56\00:28:25.43
at the same time, he
kept talking about the
00:28:25.43\00:28:27.44
impossibility of us knowing.
00:28:27.44\00:28:29.14
>>DAVID: Yes, you have
not seen his voice nor, you've
00:28:29.14\00:28:32.07
seen his form or
heard his voice at any time.
00:28:32.07\00:28:34.08
>>JAMES: But wait a
minute, if you've seen me.
00:28:34.08\00:28:36.24
>>DAVID: Then
you've seen the Father.
00:28:36.24\00:28:38.25
>>JAMES: You know who he is.
00:28:38.25\00:28:39.65
>>JEFFERY: And this whole
thing adds so much more to
00:28:39.65\00:28:41.75
that statement, if you've
seen me, you've seen the Father.
00:28:41.75\00:28:44.49
>>DAVID: But he would
regularly say to people, you
00:28:44.49\00:28:46.49
don't know him.
00:28:46.49\00:28:47.69
You have not heard his voice,
you have not seen his form.
00:28:47.69\00:28:50.79
But that's a great point, James.
00:28:50.79\00:28:52.79
If you've seen me, you have.
00:28:52.79\00:28:55.10
So, there is this sense in
which God is ineffable, he's
00:28:55.10\00:28:57.57
unapproachable, he's
unknowable, but that's just in
00:28:57.57\00:29:00.60
his nature.
00:29:00.60\00:29:01.64
>>JAMES: Of what?
00:29:01.64\00:29:02.64
>>DAVID: Yeah, we don't know.
00:29:02.64\00:29:04.34
I've said often in my
preaching that the chasm that
00:29:04.34\00:29:07.58
separates the creator from
the created is an unbridgeable
00:29:07.58\00:29:10.65
chasm.
00:29:10.65\00:29:11.65
>>JEFFERY: It's infinite, yeah.
00:29:11.65\00:29:12.65
>>DAVID: It's an infinite chasm.
00:29:12.65\00:29:14.65
10,000 years from now, 10
million years from now, if
00:29:14.65\00:29:16.75
you've lived long enough to
accumulate all of the data and
00:29:16.75\00:29:19.59
knowledge that you could in 10
million years, you would be no
00:29:19.59\00:29:22.19
closer to bridging that
chasm than you are right now.
00:29:22.19\00:29:24.99
>>JEFFERY: That's why
the Messiah picture is so
00:29:24.99\00:29:27.36
profound.
00:29:27.36\00:29:28.53
>>TY: Because the only one
who can bridge the chasm is God
00:29:28.53\00:29:30.87
himself by coming down,
we can't bridge the chasm by
00:29:30.87\00:29:34.10
going up.
00:29:34.10\00:29:35.77
>>DAVID: Thank you.
00:29:35.77\00:29:36.97
>>TY: Because there's no, we
can't transcend our finitude,
00:29:36.97\00:29:40.14
we're just
creatures that are made.
00:29:40.14\00:29:42.81
There's other language that
I've found helpful for me, the
00:29:42.81\00:29:47.18
God of the Hebrews, the God of
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the
00:29:47.18\00:29:52.22
God of Moses and the prophets,
is a God who exists adjacent
00:29:52.22\00:29:57.33
to...
00:29:57.33\00:29:59.76
>>DAVID: His creation.
00:29:59.76\00:30:00.76
>>TY: ...his creation.
00:30:00.76\00:30:02.20
He doesn't cancel it
out by overpowering it.
00:30:02.20\00:30:07.24
So, God exists beside me, he
created me, but I'm an actual
00:30:07.24\00:30:13.88
thinking, processing, emoting
being and my thoughts and
00:30:13.88\00:30:18.91
thinking, processing, emoting
being and my thoughts and
00:30:18.91\00:30:20.72
feelings and actions have,
for their final explanation, me.
00:30:21.92\00:30:31.06
Not him.
00:30:31.06\00:30:32.63
He's not overpowering,
I'm not a puppet on strings.
00:30:32.63\00:30:36.50
I actually exist.
00:30:36.50\00:30:37.77
I can say something to God
like, God, you're amazing, and
00:30:37.77\00:30:42.17
he can experience the
delight of my perception.
00:30:42.17\00:30:45.11
>>DAVID: I was just gonna
press pause on that slightly,
00:30:45.11\00:30:47.78
but you go ahead.
00:30:47.78\00:30:48.88
>>JEFFERY: I was gonna
say that, well, we're talking
00:30:48.88\00:30:51.15
about the distinction between
nature and character, what he
00:30:51.15\00:30:54.05
is versus who he is.
00:30:54.05\00:30:55.32
And it just occurred to
me that we could say that the
00:30:55.32\00:30:59.49
Hebrew mindset, the
Old Testament is far more
00:30:59.49\00:31:03.09
interested in the
latter than the former,
00:31:03.09\00:31:04.49
>>DAVID: THank you
00:31:04.49\00:31:05.59
because when, in Genesis
1:1, it says in the beginning,
00:31:05.59\00:31:08.43
God, and I remember reading
how that's pretty abrupt.
00:31:08.43\00:31:12.07
>>DAVID: It's hugely abrupt.
00:31:12.07\00:31:12.93
There's no back-story.
00:31:12.93\00:31:14.54
>>JEFFERY: There's no
back-story, there's no
00:31:14.54\00:31:15.87
explanation, there's no
breakdown of his nature, it
00:31:15.87\00:31:18.64
just says, in the beginning,
God is there, and then, this
00:31:18.64\00:31:22.11
is how he expresses himself.
00:31:22.11\00:31:24.25
In the first, in the second,
and then, from there on, it's
00:31:24.25\00:31:27.45
just fast-forward, so, it's
just like, the Old Testament
00:31:27.45\00:31:31.42
prophets are very, I shouldn't
say very, are, they seem to be
00:31:31.42\00:31:36.12
not so interested in that
transcendent, you know, nature
00:31:36.12\00:31:41.90
part.
00:31:41.90\00:31:42.90
They're more
obsessed with the character.
00:31:42.90\00:31:45.00
This is what he's like.
00:31:45.00\00:31:46.63
That's powerful.
00:31:46.63\00:31:47.84
>>JAMES: Ever since I've
been a little boy, I've tried to
00:31:47.84\00:31:50.91
even contemplate, what is God?
00:31:50.91\00:31:53.48
And what would be here if
there wasn't God and how did
00:31:53.48\00:31:57.01
this, what is that?
00:31:57.01\00:31:58.25
And just, it's impossible.
00:31:58.25\00:32:00.55
But the whole idea of
introducing himself in the who
00:32:00.55\00:32:04.39
rather than in the what is
so awesome, yes, we can grasp
00:32:04.39\00:32:08.66
that.
00:32:08.66\00:32:09.66
>>JEFFERY: And even
that blows our mind.
00:32:09.66\00:32:11.66
>>TY: You could say it
like this, I can't know what God
00:32:11.66\00:32:15.76
is, but I can know who God is.
00:32:15.76\00:32:17.67
>>JEFFERY: What he's like,
not what, but what he's like.
00:32:17.67\00:32:20.97
>>TY: So, all of that gives
way to the key concept that
00:32:20.97\00:32:30.11
the Hebrew prophets, Moses
and the prophet, Abraham, Isaac,
00:32:30.11\00:32:32.81
and beginning with Abraham,
but going even before that
00:32:32.81\00:32:35.18
with Noah, okay, there's this
idea in the Old Testament that
00:32:35.18\00:32:40.66
is the concept that defines
what hesed looks like and it's
00:32:40.66\00:32:46.29
the concept of covenant.
00:32:46.29\00:32:50.00
The God of the Old
Testament is a God of covenant.
00:32:50.00\00:32:54.00
A God of relationship or a
God of relational integrity.
00:32:54.00\00:33:00.28
So, can I throw some
more scripture on the table?
00:33:00.28\00:33:02.31
Okay, so, Isaiah 54, verse
10, if you guys wanna go there
00:33:02.31\00:33:06.28
real quick, look at this
and tell me what you think of
00:33:06.28\00:33:08.28
this.
00:33:08.28\00:33:09.28
Here's Isaiah 54, verse 10.
00:33:09.28\00:33:11.82
>>DAVID: I will give him as?
00:33:11.82\00:33:13.25
>>TY: No, no, no, no, this
is Isaiah 54 verse 10, it says
00:33:13.25\00:33:16.83
for the mountains shall depart
and the hills be removed, but
00:33:16.83\00:33:22.13
my kindness shall not depart
from you, nor my covenant of
00:33:22.13\00:33:27.74
peace be removed, says
the Lord who has hesed on you,
00:33:27.74\00:33:31.41
mercy on you.
00:33:31.41\00:33:32.91
So, there you have, in one
breath, this idea that because
00:33:32.91\00:33:37.05
God is hesed, because God is
a God of unfeeling relational
00:33:37.05\00:33:43.55
integrity, God is saying, hey,
everything in nature may be in
00:33:43.55\00:33:48.69
upheaval.
00:33:48.69\00:33:50.06
Mountains may sink into the
ocean, anything could happen
00:33:50.06\00:33:56.53
to change what's going
on in the physical universe.
00:33:56.53\00:34:00.64
But I won't change in my basic
fundamental posture towards
00:34:00.64\00:34:04.94
you.
00:34:04.94\00:34:06.14
I am covenantal committed to
you, no matter what happens to
00:34:06.14\00:34:09.11
the mountains, the sea,
the sky, everything can implode
00:34:09.11\00:34:13.05
and I'll still
be committed to you.
00:34:13.05\00:34:15.08
That's the biblical idea
that the Hebrew prophets were
00:34:15.08\00:34:18.39
messaging, all through the Old
Testament, this idea that God
00:34:18.39\00:34:22.16
is faithful, God is
relationally faithful, God is
00:34:22.16\00:34:25.39
committed.
00:34:25.39\00:34:26.76
God is toward me precisely
as God always has been toward me
00:34:26.76\00:34:31.30
and it's unchangeable in
his basic makeup, in his basic
00:34:31.30\00:34:34.44
character.
00:34:34.44\00:34:35.60
Okay, just one chapter over,
chapter 55, verse 3, incline
00:34:35.60\00:34:39.31
your hear and come and
hear and my soul shall live.
00:34:39.31\00:34:45.05
Now, here's the words,
and I will make an everlasting
00:34:45.05\00:34:48.65
covenant with you, then
these words, the sure mercies,
00:34:48.65\00:34:53.86
hesed.
00:34:53.86\00:34:54.86
The sure mercies of David.
00:34:54.86\00:34:57.23
The NIV translates that,
I think, something like the
00:34:57.23\00:35:00.50
unfailing love
promised to David.
00:35:00.50\00:35:03.57
Hesed is unfailing love.
00:35:03.57\00:35:07.24
And that's the defining
characteristic of the God of
00:35:07.24\00:35:12.51
the Old Testament.
00:35:12.51\00:35:13.71
>>DAVID: I love the fact
that you, when you're describing
00:35:13.71\00:35:16.24
that, Ty, and I think this
is great for those that are
00:35:16.24\00:35:18.25
listening in that, when we
talk about God's faithfulness,
00:35:18.25\00:35:22.08
we are not just talking
about a dry, flat faithfulness.
00:35:22.08\00:35:27.06
it is a relational faithfulness.
00:35:27.06\00:35:29.46
You used a term that you
use regularly, and I love that
00:35:29.46\00:35:31.79
term.
00:35:31.79\00:35:32.99
In fact, I think you're the
first one I ever heard say it,
00:35:32.99\00:35:34.76
is relational integrity.
00:35:34.76\00:35:36.40
So, there's a solidity there,
there is a consistency there,
00:35:36.40\00:35:42.90
but it's a consistency within
the context of a relationship
00:35:42.90\00:35:46.17
and so, for me, that's huge
for me, that's huge for all of
00:35:46.17\00:35:49.71
us, but in my own devotional,
experiential life, sort of
00:35:49.71\00:35:52.65
stepping outside of the
theological realm, I love the
00:35:52.65\00:35:56.32
idea that God's faithfulness,
his relational integrity is to
00:35:56.32\00:36:00.16
me, and my name is David, so
this text, you know, is really
00:36:00.16\00:36:03.86
pretty for me, I love it,
this idea that God would include
00:36:03.86\00:36:07.83
the name David as an
identifier of his posture
00:36:07.83\00:36:12.73
toward people, that's his way
of saying, hey, look, this is
00:36:12.73\00:36:14.80
how I will be.
00:36:14.80\00:36:15.90
'Cause there have been
times, come on, where you have
00:36:15.90\00:36:18.74
failed, you've fallen, you've
made a mistake, you've been
00:36:18.74\00:36:20.74
unkind, you've gossiped,
whatever the thing might be,
00:36:20.74\00:36:23.45
you have been
unfaithful covenantally.
00:36:23.45\00:36:27.05
God's covenantal
faithfulness is unmoved.
00:36:27.05\00:36:30.62
My unfaithfulness, you know,
shall the unfaithfulness of
00:36:30.62\00:36:33.25
man make the faithfulness of
none effect, may it never be.
00:36:33.25\00:36:36.22
So, I just, without that
solidity and that constancy
00:36:36.22\00:36:40.90
there, it would be tough.
00:36:40.90\00:36:43.57
there, it would be tough.
00:36:43.57\00:36:44.90
>>JEFFERY: His faithfulness
is unmoved, but he's not
00:36:44.90\00:36:47.30
completely unmoved.
00:36:47.30\00:36:49.24
>>DAVID: He's not
unmoved emotionally.
00:36:49.24\00:36:50.44
>>TY: Jeffrey, that's what
we were referring to before in
00:36:50.44\00:36:56.18
the language of the
Hebrew prophets, it is precisely
00:36:56.18\00:36:59.21
because god is changeless
in his love that he's so
00:36:59.21\00:37:02.15
changeable in his
relational interactions.
00:37:02.15\00:37:05.02
>>DAVID: Say that again.
00:37:05.02\00:37:06.22
>>TY: It's precisely because
God is changeless at his core
00:37:06.22\00:37:11.09
that God is changeless in his
love, that he is so dynamic in
00:37:11.09\00:37:16.13
shifting and zigging
and zagging to interact with
00:37:16.13\00:37:20.00
people according
to their situation.
00:37:20.00\00:37:22.74
It is precisely because
he's changeless that he's so
00:37:22.74\00:37:25.24
changeable.
00:37:25.24\00:37:26.44
>>JEFFERY: And because if he
wasn't changeless in his love
00:37:26.44\00:37:28.88
and commitment toward us, then
regardless of what you did, if
00:37:28.88\00:37:32.35
you didn't respond correctly,
then he would be unmoved, he
00:37:32.35\00:37:35.45
could just cut you off, right?
00:37:35.45\00:37:37.32
But the fact that he's
so committed to you, he is
00:37:37.32\00:37:40.06
therefore committed
to adjusting to whatever
00:37:40.06\00:37:42.29
scenarios.
00:37:42.29\00:37:43.53
>>TY: Think about it this way,
you love Mariana, and you love
00:37:43.53\00:37:45.76
her so much and your
faithfulness is toward her and
00:37:45.76\00:37:48.90
because you are changeless
in your love toward her, if
00:37:48.90\00:37:53.20
something develops in her
situation that is challenging,
00:37:53.20\00:37:57.34
you're going to shift on your
feet in order to meet her in
00:37:57.34\00:38:01.84
that situation.
00:38:01.84\00:38:03.21
>>JEFFERY: The willingness
to adjust is demonstration of
00:38:03.21\00:38:06.65
your commitment.
00:38:06.65\00:38:07.75
>>TY: Like, in marriage
counseling, sometimes, we say,
00:38:07.75\00:38:09.02
or at least, I say, the
most egregious manifestation of
00:38:09.02\00:38:13.59
selfishness in a relationship
is the unwillingness to
00:38:13.59\00:38:16.02
change.
00:38:16.02\00:38:17.46
And God's the opposite
of that, he's constantly in
00:38:17.46\00:38:20.53
motion toward us precisely
because he is motionless in
00:38:20.53\00:38:25.90
his essence.
00:38:25.90\00:38:27.30
>>JAMES: This has huge
implications for humanity at
00:38:27.30\00:38:30.57
large because if that's
the case, then God is working
00:38:30.57\00:38:34.54
through all religious
systems one way or another.
00:38:34.54\00:38:38.38
He's moving and
accommodating as much as he can.
00:38:38.38\00:38:43.05
I think we're gonna get into
this more when we look at the
00:38:43.05\00:38:45.05
history of reformation.
00:38:45.05\00:38:46.05
And even
previous to reformation.
00:38:46.05\00:38:48.06
And how God interacts with
people that today, we would
00:38:48.06\00:38:50.76
consider to be, woo, way, yeah.
00:38:50.76\00:38:52.86
>>DAVID: He's in a continual
state of accommodation.
00:38:52.86\00:38:55.90
Except in Jesus.
00:38:55.90\00:38:57.37
>>JAMES: And then, we
see also, right, in the Old
00:38:57.37\00:38:59.53
Testament, when God says, let
them make me a sanctuary that
00:38:59.53\00:39:02.34
I may, what I wanna, I wanna,
I wanna, how can I figure,
00:39:02.34\00:39:05.67
okay, here's
something that will work.
00:39:05.67\00:39:08.08
Here's something that'll work,
I can accommodate this way and
00:39:08.08\00:39:10.61
this is gonna be a way
that they can see me and get to
00:39:10.61\00:39:13.65
know me in their
present situation.
00:39:13.65\00:39:15.35
>>TY: That's a good note
to take a break on, James,
00:39:15.35\00:39:18.12
because we got a lot to
cover here in the minutes that
00:39:18.12\00:39:21.06
remain.
00:39:21.06\00:39:23.29
[Music]
00:39:23.29\00:39:34.54
Announcer: The Light Bearers
Story is a short award-winning
00:39:34.54\00:39:36.97
video that gives an inside
look at one of the boldest and
00:39:36.97\00:39:39.84
most effective
missionary ventures of our time.
00:39:39.84\00:39:42.91
You will see how
multiple millions of gospel
00:39:42.91\00:39:45.35
publications are flooding
the nations free of charge by
00:39:45.35\00:39:48.58
surprisingly simple means.
00:39:48.58\00:39:50.29
For your free copy of
the Light Bearers Story, call
00:39:50.29\00:39:53.86
877-585-1111, or
write to Light Bearers,
00:39:53.86\00:39:59.26
37457 Jasper Lowell
Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438.
00:39:59.26\00:40:05.53
Once again, for your free
copy of the Light Bearers Story,
00:40:05.53\00:40:08.90
call 877-585-1111 or
write to Light Bearers
00:40:08.90\00:40:14.54
37457 Jasper Lowell
Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438.
00:40:14.54\00:40:20.75
Simply ask for the
Light Bearers Story.
00:40:20.75\00:40:25.49
[Music]
00:40:25.49\00:40:31.83
>>TY: With the material that
we've covered so far with the
00:40:31.83\00:40:34.20
concepts that we've put on
the table, you can begin to see,
00:40:34.20\00:40:37.93
we start to feel that the
changes that are coming in
00:40:37.93\00:40:42.24
theological perceptions down
the pike from the Hebrew way
00:40:42.24\00:40:45.97
of thinking are so Titanic,
they're so gigantic, you can
00:40:45.97\00:40:50.58
see that if the God of
scripture, the Hebrew God of
00:40:50.58\00:40:56.38
Moses and the prophets
is a dynamic, interactive,
00:40:56.38\00:41:00.92
reciprocating, relational
God, it becomes all the more
00:41:00.92\00:41:06.13
contrasting when we come to
those periods of history when,
00:41:06.13\00:41:10.87
suddenly, God is portrayed
as static and above and beyond
00:41:10.87\00:41:16.20
and so other that he
never, ever enters into human
00:41:16.20\00:41:20.04
affairs, and it even goes
a step farther than that, you
00:41:20.04\00:41:23.14
realize, wow, this is
incredible when you come down
00:41:23.14\00:41:26.11
the line into the development
of pagan philosophy in the
00:41:26.11\00:41:31.15
Greeks, basically, Plato comes
to the point where he says,
00:41:31.15\00:41:35.19
none of us actually
exist, God is so over...
00:41:35.19\00:41:39.89
>>JEFFERY: We're consumed
in him, we're swallowed up.
00:41:39.89\00:41:41.86
>>TY: We're swallowed up, we
don't have any adjacency with
00:41:41.86\00:41:44.33
God.
00:41:44.33\00:41:45.33
There's no relationship.
00:41:45.33\00:41:46.43
>>JEFFERY: And it also
separates the categories that
00:41:46.43\00:41:48.34
we, as limited human
beings, can engage in, right?
00:41:48.34\00:41:51.77
We should engage less in
the first part, right, in the
00:41:51.77\00:41:55.44
nature of God, and we should
seek to engage more in the
00:41:55.44\00:41:58.98
character of God because
that's what scripture gives us
00:41:58.98\00:42:02.15
access to.
00:42:02.15\00:42:03.18
There's very little
explication on, this is what
00:42:03.18\00:42:06.79
God, you know, is.
00:42:06.79\00:42:08.36
>>DAVID: Well, like you said,
there in Genesis 1, it just
00:42:08.36\00:42:10.36
opens, rather abruptly.
00:42:10.36\00:42:11.76
>>JEFFERY: It just
assumes God is there.
00:42:11.76\00:42:14.13
But how he got
there, we don't know, right?
00:42:14.13\00:42:16.13
And the other thing I
was gonna say was, this whole
00:42:16.13\00:42:18.13
thing also shows
the importance of ideas.
00:42:18.13\00:42:21.60
The ripple affect of ideas.
00:42:21.60\00:42:22.70
It matters what you think
about God because one, you
00:42:22.70\00:42:26.74
know, one little idea about
God that's not consistent with
00:42:26.74\00:42:32.28
what he's revealed to be like
down the line could matter a
00:42:32.28\00:42:37.35
lot, it could change a lot.
00:42:37.35\00:42:39.22
>>TY: Okay, so, let's build
the bridge now between the Old
00:42:39.22\00:42:42.29
Testament, the God of
Moses and the prophets.
00:42:42.29\00:42:46.46
>>DAVID: I knew
where you were going.
00:42:46.46\00:42:48.43
>>TY: Okay, to what, for me,
maybe for all of you, I don't
00:42:48.43\00:42:50.43
know, I didn't
tell you guys this.
00:42:50.43\00:42:52.43
But, no, 2 Corinthians 1:20,
okay, this, to me, this to me
00:42:52.43\00:42:58.04
is the bible verse in the
New Testament, it is the apostle
00:42:58.04\00:43:02.48
Paul telling us exactly what
the connection is between the
00:43:02.48\00:43:07.08
Old and the New.
00:43:07.08\00:43:08.45
This is the whole thing.
00:43:08.45\00:43:11.59
It says here, 2 Corinthians,
chapter 1, verse 20.
00:43:11.59\00:43:15.32
For all the promises of
God, okay, pause right there.
00:43:15.32\00:43:19.33
When Paul says all the
promises of God, he means the
00:43:19.33\00:43:22.20
Old Testament, in totality.
00:43:22.20\00:43:23.43
He means everything that Moses
wrote, everything the prophets
00:43:23.43\00:43:26.97
wrote, he says, all the
promises of God are in him, in
00:43:26.97\00:43:30.87
Christ, yes, and in him, amen,
to the glory of God through
00:43:30.87\00:43:37.11
us.
00:43:37.11\00:43:38.11
Isn't that amazing?
00:43:38.11\00:43:39.58
So, essentially what Paul
is doing is he's telling you,
00:43:39.58\00:43:43.22
he's telling me, he's saying,
listen, I'll tell you what's
00:43:43.22\00:43:45.85
going on.
00:43:45.85\00:43:47.39
I'll tell you what the
relationship is between the
00:43:47.39\00:43:51.89
Old and the New Testament,
between the Yahweh of the Old
00:43:51.89\00:43:56.40
Testament and the
Yeshua of the New Testament.
00:43:56.40\00:44:00.84
I'll tell you
what the connection is.
00:44:00.84\00:44:03.24
Paul is saying, listen,
the whole Old Testament was one
00:44:03.24\00:44:06.27
big old giant promise.
00:44:06.27\00:44:08.68
It was covenant made.
00:44:08.68\00:44:10.78
It was the declaration of the
character of God, the kind of
00:44:10.78\00:44:15.48
god God is, and all the
promises that filled that out.
00:44:15.48\00:44:18.32
And Paul says, I'll tell
you what's going on in the New
00:44:18.32\00:44:20.36
Testament, God has now showed
up, in Christ, to fulfill all
00:44:20.36\00:44:25.39
that the law and the
prophets had uttered.
00:44:25.39\00:44:27.60
>>JEFFERY: Jesus shows up and
God's like, I approve of this
00:44:27.60\00:44:30.57
message, basically.
00:44:30.57\00:44:31.77
>>DAVID: This is my beloved
Son in whom I am well pleased.
00:44:31.77\00:44:34.40
I just bought a book recently,
a scholarly work, probably a
00:44:34.40\00:44:37.41
year ago, and it's a
book on justification.
00:44:37.41\00:44:39.87
So, I open it up and I'm
like, ah, you know, I don't know
00:44:39.87\00:44:43.65
where he's coming from, I
don't know where he's going,
00:44:43.65\00:44:45.65
and in the introduction,
the very first text he quotes is
00:44:45.65\00:44:49.95
2 Corinthians 1:20, and
already, I'm in identification.
00:44:49.95\00:44:53.19
I'm like, okay.
00:44:53.19\00:44:54.39
And then, as the book unfolds,
I'm like, yes, yes, because
00:44:54.39\00:44:58.16
this is, definitive might be
too strong of a word, but this
00:44:58.16\00:45:02.03
text encapsulates
absolutely the essence of the
00:45:02.03\00:45:05.87
relationship between the
Old and the New Testament.
00:45:05.87\00:45:08.44
God makes promises, God
has kept promises, all of them,
00:45:08.44\00:45:11.47
not some of them, not most
of them, and this will have huge
00:45:11.47\00:45:14.44
implications because there are
a lot of people, well-meaning
00:45:14.44\00:45:17.18
people who read the New
Testament as if all of the
00:45:17.18\00:45:21.92
promises of God, in
fact, were not kept.
00:45:21.92\00:45:24.82
There are still promises
yet future to be kept, that will
00:45:24.82\00:45:27.56
be fulfilled, and this is key,
not in Christ, but in Israel.
00:45:27.56\00:45:32.06
>>TY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:32.06\00:45:33.16
>>DAVID: And that's
gonna create a whole new way of
00:45:33.16\00:45:35.30
reading the text of scripture.
00:45:35.30\00:45:36.73
Oh, yeah, but God made
all these promises and Paul's
00:45:36.73\00:45:38.83
response would be, wait a
minute, every promise that God
00:45:38.83\00:45:41.80
made is a yes.
00:45:41.80\00:45:43.44
Every promise that
God made is an amen.
00:45:43.44\00:45:45.44
Where? Where?
00:45:45.44\00:45:46.34
How come?
00:45:46.34\00:45:47.31
In Christ.
00:45:47.31\00:45:48.21
>>TY: That's right.
00:45:48.21\00:45:49.08
It's all fulfilled.
00:45:49.08\00:45:50.51
>>JAMES: You know, what's
really interesting, too, is
00:45:50.51\00:45:52.68
this previous verse here in
2 Corinthians 1, verse 18, but
00:45:52.68\00:45:57.05
as God is true, as God is
true, and that word means to,
00:45:57.05\00:46:02.69
there are two words that
it comes from, two Greek words
00:46:02.69\00:46:05.83
that it comes from and one
of the Greek words that it goes
00:46:05.83\00:46:07.86
back to, one of the primary
words, is to convince, to
00:46:07.86\00:46:09.53
pacify, reconcile, but it's
translated in a couple places,
00:46:09.53\00:46:14.37
to make friends.
00:46:14.37\00:46:16.94
As God is seeking to convince
us that he's faithful to us,
00:46:16.94\00:46:20.71
but he's true to us, but he's
a true friend of ours, that's
00:46:20.71\00:46:23.91
the inference that you get
from the way that it's been
00:46:23.91\00:46:26.55
translated in some places.
00:46:26.55\00:46:27.98
So...
00:46:27.98\00:46:28.98
>>DAVID: This is 1:18.
00:46:28.98\00:46:30.22
>>JEFFERY: Mine
says God is faithful.
00:46:30.22\00:46:31.45
>>JAMES: God is faithful, God
is true, God is a friend, God
00:46:31.45\00:46:34.02
is a true friend,
God is a faithful friend.
00:46:34.02\00:46:36.02
That would be the implication,
some of the translations.
00:46:36.02\00:46:38.53
>>TY: Wow, wow, wow, wow.
00:46:38.53\00:46:41.13
>>JAMES: Well, they have to be.
00:46:41.13\00:46:43.60
If he's a true friend,
everything has to be yes.
00:46:43.60\00:46:45.33
But it has to be yes in him.
00:46:45.33\00:46:47.64
It can't be yes in anything
else because God can't say yes
00:46:47.64\00:46:51.64
to us outside of himself.
00:46:51.64\00:46:54.34
He's true love, he's faithful,
he's merciful, he's just, he's
00:46:54.34\00:46:57.91
everything, in him, it's yes.
00:46:57.91\00:47:00.65
Outside of him.
00:47:00.65\00:47:01.75
>>TY: Okay, so,
watch this, you guys.
00:47:01.75\00:47:04.99
So, I'm gonna just, I'm
just gonna see what you think of
00:47:04.99\00:47:08.32
making this simple statement
that, for me, has been huge,
00:47:08.32\00:47:12.33
and somebody said this to me,
I can't remember who said it,
00:47:12.33\00:47:15.03
they said Jesus was born
to a Hebrew family in a Greek
00:47:15.03\00:47:21.80
world.
00:47:21.80\00:47:24.91
>>DAVID: Correct.
00:47:24.91\00:47:26.07
>>TY: Okay, so, Jesus comes
into the world, born into a
00:47:26.07\00:47:28.68
Hebrew family, he
is a Hebrew himself.
00:47:28.68\00:47:31.78
The whole world around
him has been Hellenized.
00:47:31.78\00:47:36.22
Greek thought is permeating
the culture around him, so
00:47:36.22\00:47:39.75
much so that after the Christ
event takes place, the apostle
00:47:39.75\00:47:44.26
Paul finds it necessary to
say, hey, I'm about to preach
00:47:44.26\00:47:47.73
to you a gospel that the
Greeks will struggle with.
00:47:47.73\00:47:51.13
>>DAVID: It's foolishness.
00:47:51.13\00:47:52.40
>>TY: It's foolishness
to them, because they have a
00:47:52.40\00:47:54.40
different lens that
they're looking through, okay?
00:47:54.40\00:47:58.24
>>JEFFERY: But now, he has to
use Greek words to communicate
00:47:58.24\00:48:01.31
Hebrew thought.
00:48:01.31\00:48:02.74
>>TY: Yes.
00:48:02.74\00:48:03.81
>>JEFFERY: The New Testament
is written in Greek, of
00:48:03.81\00:48:05.75
course.
00:48:05.75\00:48:06.75
So, that's kind of a...
00:48:06.75\00:48:07.75
>>TY: It's amazing.
00:48:07.75\00:48:08.95
I think what the New Testament
apostles, the writers of the
00:48:08.95\00:48:12.49
New Testament are doing,
they're ingenious evangelists
00:48:12.49\00:48:15.89
is what they are.
00:48:15.89\00:48:17.13
What they're doing is, they're
taking the popular language of
00:48:17.13\00:48:20.90
the times and they are
essentially taking ownership
00:48:20.90\00:48:25.97
of concepts and putting
Jesus' name on those concepts.
00:48:25.97\00:48:31.11
Think of John chapter 1,
think of John chapter 1, in the
00:48:31.11\00:48:34.74
beginning was the word, logos,
and the word, logos was with
00:48:34.74\00:48:39.71
God and the logos was God, okay.
00:48:39.71\00:48:42.98
In Greek thinking of the time,
Jesus is Hebrew born into a
00:48:42.98\00:48:46.25
Greek world, there's an idea
that is pervasive in the world
00:48:46.25\00:48:52.23
in which he finds himself.
00:48:52.23\00:48:54.23
And the idea that is that
there is something that the
00:48:54.23\00:48:57.67
Greeks call the logos and
the logos is the underlying core
00:48:57.67\00:49:03.34
principle that defines reality.
00:49:03.34\00:49:07.24
it's the logic of existence.
00:49:07.24\00:49:10.81
But for the Greeks, it's
a very transcendent idea and
00:49:10.81\00:49:15.95
it's a concept, and if
it's personal at all, for the
00:49:15.95\00:49:19.85
Greeks, it's nature
itself, it's pantheism.
00:49:19.85\00:49:24.09
And then, John comes along and
he says, hey, that logos thing
00:49:24.09\00:49:27.83
that everybody's talking about?
00:49:27.83\00:49:30.70
The thing behind all things?
00:49:30.70\00:49:33.67
The thing at the
core of all thinginess?
00:49:33.67\00:49:37.11
>>DAVID: You say, his nature.
00:49:37.11\00:49:38.51
>>TY: Yeah.
00:49:38.51\00:49:39.54
>>JEFFERY: He became flesh.
00:49:39.54\00:49:40.71
>>TY: He became, okay, so,
now, he's taking ownership of
00:49:40.71\00:49:41.94
that word and he's saying, for
example, I looked up the word
00:49:41.94\00:49:45.95
logos and here's the
definition, Merriam Webster's,
00:49:45.95\00:49:50.32
the reason for everything,
in ancient Greek, the philosophy
00:49:50.32\00:49:56.52
of the controlling principle
that pervades the universe.
00:49:56.52\00:50:00.53
Okay, so, if that's the idea,
John comes along, he says, in
00:50:00.53\00:50:03.06
the beginning was the
controlling principle that
00:50:03.06\00:50:06.50
rules the universe, in the
beginning was the thing behind
00:50:06.50\00:50:10.01
all things and that logos
became flesh and here he is.
00:50:10.01\00:50:17.15
>>DAVID: He's 6 foot
1, he weighs 180 pounds.
00:50:17.15\00:50:22.25
>>TY: And he's right among us.
00:50:22.25\00:50:24.39
Isn't that just mind blowing?
00:50:24.39\00:50:26.69
>>DAVID: And it's not only
mind blowing for us sitting
00:50:26.69\00:50:29.09
here, it's incomprehensible to
the Greek world in which Jesus
00:50:29.09\00:50:32.19
is living.
00:50:32.19\00:50:33.26
See, you have Paul, fast
forwarding, Paul going into
00:50:33.26\00:50:36.03
Athens, and Paul,
Hebrew perspective, you know,
00:50:36.03\00:50:40.07
certainly fluent in
Greek thought, but Hebrew
00:50:40.07\00:50:43.91
perspective and he
starts speaking to the Athenian
00:50:43.91\00:50:46.24
philosophers and they're
like, yep, yep, yep, yep.
00:50:46.24\00:50:48.74
Tracking with him.
00:50:48.74\00:50:50.15
God doesn't dwell in temples
made with hands, okay, yep,
00:50:50.15\00:50:52.15
yep, yep, tracking with him,
and then, he says, and I wanna
00:50:52.15\00:50:54.15
tell you about Jesus, this
guy who was resurrected from the
00:50:54.15\00:50:56.42
dead.
00:50:56.42\00:50:57.42
They're like, what?
00:50:57.42\00:50:58.62
Because, because this sort
of pre-Greek, the ancient Greek
00:50:58.62\00:51:03.49
thinking about God were
these gross, like, really blunt
00:51:03.49\00:51:08.83
anthropomorphisms, where
God you know, is, yeah, looked
00:51:08.83\00:51:11.73
like human beings, there's
vengeance and there's jealousy
00:51:11.73\00:51:15.10
and there's' intrigue and
there's scandal and there's
00:51:15.10\00:51:17.11
fornication and they've been
down the road where God looks
00:51:17.11\00:51:20.34
so much like, no, and so Paul
shows up and it's like, yeah,
00:51:20.34\00:51:24.91
this guy, that's God
in the, but we've heard.
00:51:24.91\00:51:28.52
>>JEFFERY: The real innovation
with the John 1:1 and 14, this
00:51:28.52\00:51:33.49
logos became flesh.
00:51:33.49\00:51:35.02
I'm thinking, what was so
radical, what was so new about
00:51:35.02\00:51:38.19
that idea?
00:51:38.19\00:51:39.39
And I think it goes back to
what we've been talking about,
00:51:39.39\00:51:41.43
nature versus character, right?
00:51:41.43\00:51:43.06
'Cause he's personifying, he's
saying that logos is a person.
00:51:43.06\00:51:48.24
And by saying it's a person,
he's emphasizing the character
00:51:48.24\00:51:53.31
versus the nature, 'cause
in the Greek mind, it was this
00:51:53.31\00:51:56.04
illusive reason, right?
00:51:56.04\00:51:57.85
And now, John says,
it's actually a person.
00:51:57.85\00:52:02.35
Right, you can't interact
with reason with an abstract
00:52:02.35\00:52:07.16
notion, but you can
interact with the person.
00:52:07.16\00:52:09.62
So, I think we keep
circling around this same point.
00:52:09.62\00:52:12.43
That's the
innovation of Christianity.
00:52:12.43\00:52:15.83
>>TY: And Paul takes it
to a further extreme that he
00:52:15.83\00:52:19.63
himself anticipates that if
you remain in the Greek way of
00:52:19.63\00:52:23.84
thinking, you won't get
it, he says, in 1 Corinthians
00:52:23.84\00:52:26.44
chapter 1.
00:52:26.44\00:52:27.61
He says, okay, if you keep
thinking Greek, you won't get
00:52:27.61\00:52:29.81
what I'm about to say.
00:52:29.81\00:52:31.01
But the God who became human,
the God who became human, do
00:52:31.01\00:52:35.15
you see what's
going on right there?
00:52:35.15\00:52:37.15
Bleeding, dying,
self-sacrifice on the cross?
00:52:37.15\00:52:42.12
Well, that's God.
00:52:42.12\00:52:43.32
And he says, for the message
of the cross is foolishness to
00:52:43.32\00:52:49.60
those who are perishing, it's
foolishness, he says later on,
00:52:49.60\00:52:53.40
to the Greek
paradigm of reality.
00:52:53.40\00:52:55.40
But to us who are in the
process of getting it and
00:52:55.40\00:52:58.61
being saved and healed in
our way of thinking and feeling
00:52:58.61\00:53:01.31
and relating,
it's the power of God.
00:53:01.31\00:53:03.35
So, you have the same event,
you've got the cross, and to
00:53:03.35\00:53:07.02
one pair of eyes, Hebrew
eyes, it looks very powerful, it
00:53:07.02\00:53:10.29
looks like covenant fulfilled,
it looks like relational
00:53:10.29\00:53:13.79
integrity.
00:53:13.79\00:53:14.92
To another pair of eyes,
it looks like humiliation and
00:53:14.92\00:53:18.83
death and a lack of power.
00:53:18.83\00:53:20.60
>>DAVID: Malleability,
changeability, that can't be
00:53:20.60\00:53:22.73
God.
00:53:22.73\00:53:23.73
>>TY: Lacking in power.
00:53:23.73\00:53:24.73
Where's the power?
00:53:24.73\00:53:25.90
And Paul flips the paradigm
of power and says, well, the
00:53:25.90\00:53:27.97
power's actually
in the self-sacrifice.
00:53:27.97\00:53:32.21
Isn't, I mean, that's
the difference between Hebrew
00:53:32.21\00:53:37.05
thinking and Greek thinking.
00:53:37.05\00:53:38.85
>>JEFFERY: And then they would
say, well, where's the wisdom,
00:53:38.85\00:53:41.08
where's the philosophy?
00:53:41.08\00:53:43.22
And the text that came to
my mind was Colossians 2:3, in
00:53:43.22\00:53:48.06
Jesus are hidden all
the treasures of wisdom and
00:53:48.06\00:53:51.39
knowledge.
00:53:51.39\00:53:52.36
That's a crazy thing
to say in a Greek world.
00:53:52.36\00:53:54.96
>>TY: It is.
00:53:54.96\00:53:55.96
>>JEFFERY: Right?
00:53:55.96\00:53:57.13
I mean, a culture that so
reveres wisdom and philosophy
00:53:57.13\00:54:02.17
and reason to say, in the
person of this individual are
00:54:02.17\00:54:06.14
hidden all the treasures
of wisdom and knowledge.
00:54:06.14\00:54:09.61
And so, I was reading a little
bit of early Christianity,
00:54:09.61\00:54:13.45
2nd, 3rd century, and the
early Christians were saying,
00:54:13.45\00:54:16.65
everything, Plato and
Aristotle, all of the things
00:54:16.65\00:54:19.95
that they were approximating
to who God was and what he was
00:54:19.95\00:54:22.62
like, all that stuff is just
consumed in this one person,
00:54:22.62\00:54:26.59
in Jesus.
00:54:26.59\00:54:27.73
>>DAVID: So, you've got, I
just gotta say this and I'll
00:54:27.73\00:54:29.56
do it quickly, 2 Corinthians
chapter 4, verse 6, for it is
00:54:29.56\00:54:33.80
God who commanded light to
shine out of darkness who is
00:54:33.80\00:54:35.97
shone in our hearts to give
us the light of the knowledge of
00:54:35.97\00:54:38.27
the glory of God
in the face of Jesus.
00:54:38.27\00:54:40.28
You've heard this
before, maybe you have as well.
00:54:40.28\00:54:42.28
Where he says, in the light
of the knowledge of the glory.
00:54:42.28\00:54:44.55
And there's this idea
that Jesus is living at the
00:54:44.55\00:54:47.15
convergence of 3 cultures,
3 ways of viewing reality.
00:54:47.15\00:54:51.09
The Hebrew way, you distill
Hebrew down to its essence,
00:54:51.09\00:54:53.46
it's light, right?
00:54:53.46\00:54:55.36
Thy word is a light to my
path, a lamp to my feet, the
00:54:55.36\00:54:58.53
shekinah light, and then
you have the Greek way of
00:54:58.53\00:55:01.10
thinking, knowledge, the
academy thinking, the great
00:55:01.10\00:55:04.00
philosophers, and then,
you have the Roman way of
00:55:04.00\00:55:06.37
thinking, power, might, glory.
00:55:06.37\00:55:08.74
And all of that's
wrapped up in Jesus.
00:55:08.74\00:55:10.74
For God who commanded
the light to shine out of
00:55:10.74\00:55:12.74
darkness, the same God who
spoke in Genesis, let there be
00:55:12.74\00:55:14.74
light, has now spoken to give
us the light, Hebrew, of the
00:55:14.74\00:55:18.81
knowledge, Greek, of
the power, the might of God,
00:55:18.81\00:55:23.12
Roman, in all of
those cultures, wrapped up.
00:55:23.12\00:55:26.25
>>JEFFERY: He's the
perfect articulation.
00:55:26.25\00:55:28.26
>>TY: It was about all of
it, he's redefined all of the
00:55:28.26\00:55:31.73
categories.
00:55:31.73\00:55:32.79
>>DAVID: This is what
light looks like, this is what
00:55:32.79\00:55:34.73
knowledge looks like,
this is what power looks like.
00:55:34.73\00:55:36.83
>>TY: We have 40 seconds
left and somebody needs to
00:55:36.83\00:55:39.90
summarize.
00:55:39.90\00:55:40.90
[Laughter]
00:55:40.90\00:55:42.07
Somebody needs to summarize
what we've discovered, what
00:55:42.07\00:55:43.91
we've talked about
so far in this session.
00:55:43.91\00:55:45.91
>>DAVID: I'll do my best.
00:55:45.91\00:55:47.04
I love, Ty, and I'll just
throw this in quick, I love
00:55:47.04\00:55:48.91
your point, Hebrew way of
thinking is approximate, and I
00:55:48.91\00:55:51.05
wrote them down,
intimate, proximate, relational,
00:55:51.05\00:55:53.85
personable, adjacent, this
idea that God is, that's the
00:55:53.85\00:55:57.32
God of the Hebrews.
00:55:57.32\00:55:58.62
He makes promises
in the Old Testament.
00:55:58.62\00:56:02.02
And in the New Testament,
in Jesus, he keeps all of those
00:56:02.02\00:56:07.60
promises.
00:56:07.60\00:56:08.56
In him, they are
yes and they are amen.
00:56:08.56\00:56:11.33
>>TY: And I'll
just say amen to that.
00:56:11.33\00:56:14.70
>>DAVID: [Laughter] Yes.
00:56:14.70\00:56:16.10
[Music]
00:56:16.10\00:56:25.41
[Music]
00:56:25.41\00:56:28.82
?
00:56:35.72\00:56:37.76