Participants:
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000413A
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00:10 [Music] 00:20 >>TY: Well, this is number 13 in the series, so we've come 00:23 to the conclusion of this Table Talk series. 00:26 >>JEFFREY: We've exhausted the book of Revelation. 00:27 >>TY: We have not exhaust it, that's for sure, there's so 00:29 much that we didn't touch upon, but I'm just wondering 00:31 before we launch into Revelation 21 and 22, what 00:35 would be the highlight for you so far? 00:37 A point of discovery, a point of insight, something you're 00:40 like, wow, that was time well spent? 00:42 >>DAVID: I loved, and I know that this is going well back 00:45 and there have been lots of highlights, but I loved the 00:48 section on Revelation 4 and 5. 00:50 That was growing out of the sermon that you preached 00:53 recently that I heard on that and then the opportunity to 00:56 discuss it as a group, I loved it. 00:59 >>TY: Revelation 4 and 5, what about you, James? 01:01 >>JAMES: Twelve. 01:02 Twelve is always my favorite and it's just amazing what is 01:06 in there, I loved that whole concept that's developed there 01:10 of the woman bringing forth the man child who answers the 01:13 accusations of Satan and vanquishes all of the 01:16 opposition of the accuser and just delivers his people. 01:18 I just love that whole picture, the great controversy 01:21 picture, it's beautiful. 01:22 >>TY: How about you, Jeffrey? 01:24 >>JEFFREY: I loved Revelation 14 and I love that passage, 01:27 here's the patience of the saints, those who keep the 01:29 commandments and the faith of Jesus. 01:31 >>DAVID: That was great. 01:32 >>JEFFREY: That was a highlight for me. 01:34 It's Jesus's faith that basically projects to us and 01:36 we respond to it. 01:37 I think that was a highlight. 01:38 >>TY: There was so much good stuff. 01:40 Mine was more recent and that is the full disclosure idea, 01:46 yeah, last session. 01:48 The language where it says in chapter 19, verse 11, that he 01:54 that's speaking, he judges, Jesus judges, the Father has 01:59 given him judgment, and then, in chapter 20, verse 4, and 02:02 he, Jesus, commits judgment to us. 02:05 That's an incredible revelation of God's character 02:09 for me that he commits judgment to us and he puts 02:13 himself out there to be evaluated and to disclose 02:16 everything. 02:17 I liked your language very much, the, what is it? 02:21 Declassified. 02:22 Yeah, declassifying all of the documents of the Great War 02:24 between good and evil. 02:26 All of history, it's all on the table, evaluate it, what 02:28 does everybody think? 02:29 >>DAVID: It bodes really well, I think, for the series that I 02:32 was right at the beginning, my highlight was 4 and 5, you 02:35 were 12, which is getting midway through, you were 14, 02:39 which is getting toward the end, you're just 20. 02:42 That's a good sign. 02:43 I have absolutely loved this series. 02:46 It's been so easy, not in the sense that we've been dealing 02:50 always with easy material, but it's just bubbling and 02:53 bubbling and bubbling. 02:54 I love it. 02:55 >>TY: I think we should acknowledge the fact that we 03:00 know we haven't exhausted the book of Revelation and we know 03:03 that we may have said some stuff along the way that we 03:06 didn't give enough clarity on that we could have made 03:09 clearer, or spent enough time on, but we're not here to give 03:12 all the answers anyway. 03:13 We're here to model and to share bible study, and we're 03:21 hoping that people will not say, okay, that was finality, 03:24 those guys shared everything, no, we didn't, we just 03:27 scratched the service and now we're racing. 03:29 >>JEFFREY: And even hoping that there would be some 03:31 disagreement on some minor point here and there that 03:33 would just stimulate more thought. 03:35 >>TY: Proves that we're thinking, yeah. 03:37 So, we want people to study, to read for themselves, and 03:39 not just say, okay, that was it, that's the definitive word 03:43 on Revelation, it's not. 03:44 It's not the definitive word, but Jesus is the definitive 03:48 word, he is the faithful and true witness that gives full 03:53 revelation to the character of God that makes it possible for 03:57 us to see who God really is and then, in response to that 04:01 revelation, to ourselves become a revelation to the 04:05 world that fills the world with the glory of God, not 04:10 because we have any glory in ourselves as the church of 04:13 God, but it's his glory and we're tapping into it. 04:17 And we're experiencing it. 04:18 So, it's, we're at Revelation 21 and 22 now. 04:22 This is, in fact, the grand finale, the book is now coming 04:26 to a conclusion and I would have to say that Revelation 21 04:32 and 22 stands apart, head and shoulders above anything 04:38 that's ever been written to describe what the world should 04:44 be like, and what the world eventually will be like. 04:47 You can't help but read this and find it attractive and 04:51 beautiful, even if, I don't know if you guys think this is 04:55 accurate or not, but even if you believe it's fiction. 05:02 >>JEFFREY: Still beautiful. 05:03 >>TY: Even if you think it's not true, you can't help but 05:06 read this and wish it were true. 05:08 >>DAVID: I say that a lot in my preaching, I say, the story 05:12 of God becoming a man and dying for his undeserving, 05:17 apathetic creation is a story that just on aesthetic 05:20 grounds, you can appreciate. 05:23 You might say, I think it's a fairytale, I think it's a 05:25 fiction, I don't believe it, but aesthetically, in the 05:28 words of Alvin Plantenga, it's not just the greatest story 05:31 ever told, it's the greatest story that ever could be told. 05:36 >>TY: You can't imagine anything better. 05:37 And the reason I think it's important to frame it like 05:40 that and say, even if you don't believe it's true, you 05:43 will find yourself attracted to it, I think the point there 05:47 is to say this, the fact that you find it attractive 05:51 indicates that it's true. 05:53 That's right, it has a resonance. 05:56 You're like, oh, my heart really longs for that kind of 05:59 world, well, why do you long for that kind of world? 06:01 >>JEFFREY: Not even having read any of the last 2 06:03 chapters, but isn't it powerful that the last 2 06:05 chapters basically bridge back to the first two chapters of 06:09 the whole bible. 06:09 >>TY: Unpack that, Jeffrey. 06:10 >>JEFFREY: In the fact that the last 2 chapters of the 06:12 bible, chapter 21, chapter 22 of Revelation, you have this 06:16 restored world, and there's no signs of the curse, there's no 06:21 signs of sin, of suffering, of pain, of death. 06:25 All that has been removed and what you have here is just 06:28 this new flourishing of a new beginning and in my mind, I 06:32 always think that the end of the bible is really just 06:35 announcing the new beginning, and so, because it ends that 06:40 way, it wraps back to Genesis 1 and 2, because in the first 06:42 two chapters, the book of Genesis, you have this edenic 06:47 creation, this beautiful environment that God created, 06:51 no sin, no pain, no suffering, no death. 06:54 These are bookends and they're perfectly complementary. 06:57 You were saying there's something instinctively within 06:59 us, even if we don't buy the story, we're like, this is 07:03 beautiful, I wish that were true. 07:06 Maybe the reason is because it's anchored back in the 07:09 original story of humanity, Genesis 1 and 2, 07:11 we are from Eden. 07:14 >>TY: It's like we have amnesia and you see something 07:19 beautiful and it wants to trigger your memory, oh, wait 07:23 a minute, I feel like that's who I am, that's how I'm 07:28 supposed to, that's the way, who am I? 07:30 Who am I? 07:31 And the memories are coming back little bit by bit when 07:35 you encounter beauty. 07:37 Beauty, Genesis 1 and 2, a world without evil, suffering, 07:41 and sin, and Revelation 21 and 22, a world without evil, 07:46 suffering, and sin, you encounter those ideas and you 07:49 think, hm, maybe I'm meant to be something more, maybe the 07:54 world is meant to be something more, and the amnesia starts 07:57 to lift. 07:58 >>JEFFREY: It's like you're sitting on the rocking chair 08:00 looking at the photo album, and you've got this amnesia, 08:03 and you're just flipping through the pictures and it's 08:07 triggering memories, and you see a picture, who's that? 08:09 Oh, wait, that looks really familiar. 08:11 Wait a second, that's my wife, that's my dad, and it's slowly 08:16 coming to you and as these images become fresh on your 08:19 memory, then you start piecing together a narrative. 08:22 Where do these pictures fit into my story? 08:24 And then your story comes alive. 08:26 >>TY: Okay, so let's look at the text. 08:28 So, Revelation. 08:30 >>DAVID: It's like reverse Alzheimer's. 08:31 >>TY: Yeah, it's like reverse Alzheimer's. 08:32 >>DAVID: You're getting clarity, you're getting 08:33 lucidity. 08:34 >>TY: So, Revelation 21 and 22, just starting with verse 1 08:39 of chapter 21, now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for 08:44 the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. 08:47 Also there was no more sea. 08:50 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming 08:54 down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned 08:58 for her husband. 09:00 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, behold, the 09:04 tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, 09:09 and they shall be His people. 09:12 God Himself will be with them and be their God. 09:15 And God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, there 09:21 shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. 09:25 There shall be no more pain, for the former things have 09:29 passed away. 09:30 Verse 5, then He who sat on the throne said, behold, I 09:35 make all things new. 09:37 And He said to me, write, for these words are true and 09:42 faithful. 09:43 Isn't that incredible? 09:44 >>JAMES: Yeah, I noticed how you stopped naturally right 09:46 there and that's the way, as you read these verses, that's 09:49 the way it comes across. 09:51 It comes across as though the first four verses are 09:54 revealing something so tremendously beautiful and 09:59 significant and powerful that, by the time it gets to the 10:02 fourth verse, it's like, I can't continue, I gotta stop 10:05 right now, just for a second here and I gotta really affirm 10:08 and assure everyone that everything I just said is 10:12 true, everything I just said is faithful, yes, God, the God 10:18 of the universe is going to actually inhabit planet earth 10:21 with his people, he's gonna tabernacle with them. 10:23 This is going to become, this fallen world of all of his, 10:28 unfallen world of all this created universe, this fallen 10:31 world is going to become the center of the universe, and if 10:35 anyone wants to visit with God or see God, I'm talking in the 10:40 context here of the fact that there are other worlds in 10:44 Hebrews and in Job, it talks about the Sons of God are 10:47 representatives of other worlds. 10:49 If anyone wants to come and actually visit God, see God, 10:53 they're gonna come to planet earth. 10:55 This earth is going to become the center. 10:57 This one blight in the universe is gonna become the 10:59 place where God dwells and he stops right there. 11:02 And he, of course, you know, all that's included in there 11:06 is the wiping away of the tears, no more death, no more 11:08 sorrow, but he stops right there and he's saying now, I 11:10 probably need to assure you, Ty, that what I'm saying is 11:13 true and faithful. 11:14 >>TY: This will happen. 11:15 >>JAMES: This is gonna happen. 11:16 This seems amazing, but this is gonna happen. 11:18 Because this is God's character. 11:20 God is a God who is gracious, God is a God who is loving, 11:22 his love in unconditional, and so, this is just, this is 11:26 kinda like, you know, we think we're done with Revelation, we 11:29 think we're done with this exposition of the character of 11:32 God, what is God like? 11:34 We think we're done with that. 11:35 This is just kinda closing it out, no, this is the capstone. 11:38 The actual, final cherry on the top type of Revelation 11:45 that we're getting here is, yes, I've delivered you from 11:48 sin, yes, I've taken care of the beast, yes, I've taken 11:50 care of all, you know, pain and suffering, but there's one 11:53 more thing you need to know. 11:54 I'm gonna come and live with you. 11:56 I'm coming to, that's gonna be the center of the universe for 11:58 now. 12:00 I'm gonna be actually living on, my city where I dwell is 12:03 gonna come down to planet earth and that's where I'm 12:05 gonna live. 12:05 >>TY: I will be with you for all eternity. 12:08 >>JEFFREY: There's a question here I wanna throw out, it 12:10 says God will wipe away every tear from their eyes, how do 12:12 you think that will actually happen? 12:14 I don't know the answer per se, I'm just throwing that out 12:16 there. 12:17 How will God wipe away our tears? 12:20 >>TY: Well, it's poetic, for sure, he's not walking around 12:24 to the multiplied millions of the redeemed and saying, yours 12:27 and then yours and yours, necessarily. 12:29 It's poetically describing the fact that God is going to 12:34 comfort and heal the sorrows that have weighed heavy on our 12:39 hearts. 12:40 And I think it's interesting that it's coming out of 12:42 chapter 20. 12:43 So, they've been with Christ for 1,000 years, all judgment 12:47 was committed to them, the whole full disclosure process, 12:51 now, if you think about it, there are some people that, 12:55 even against the overwhelming evidence of God's goodness and 13:00 the overwhelming outpouring of God's grace, there are some 13:03 people who are lost. 13:05 So, during the 1,000 year millennium where this full 13:08 disclosure process is taking place, it's easy to imagine 13:13 that there's gonna be a lot of crying, because we're looking, 13:17 as David said, all the documents are now on the table 13:22 and we're gonna have questions. 13:24 God, what about her, why isn't she here? 13:28 And God is going to show the records, the interactions, the 13:32 providences, he's going to explain. 13:34 He doesn't want any lingering questions in our minds and 13:38 there's gonna be tears, and so, when we come to Revelation 13:41 chapter 21, this is one of the most tender pictures of God 13:46 imaginable. 13:47 Anybody who sees tears forming in someone's eyes and 13:51 trickling down their cheeks that would be inclined to 13:56 wanna lean into that and to wanna wipe those tears away, 13:58 that's a lot of sympathy, that's a lot of love, that's a 14:02 beautiful picture of the fact that God isn't merely 14:06 powerful, he's all powerful, but he's not merely all 14:08 powerful, God isn't merely holy, he's holiest in itself. 14:13 God is love and he feels the feelings of others and he's 14:18 reaching out to comfort and he's saying, hey, it's gonna 14:23 be okay, eternity now is going to stretch out before you and 14:27 there's going to be, well, later on, it says, the leaves 14:31 of the tree of life are for the healing of the nations. 14:35 That's after, I don't know exactly what that means, after 14:38 sin is completely destroyed and you're in the new heavens 14:42 and the new earth, there's still, we're still healing. 14:46 Not healing from sin. 14:48 People aren't still sinning and repenting, but there's 14:52 definitely some residual damage, emotional damage that 14:55 sin has caused and there's gonna be healing process for 15:00 some time. 15:01 How long? 15:02 I don't know, nobody knows, but I think that's what's 15:04 going on with the tears, Jeffrey. 15:06 >>JAMES: I really like that picture, Ty, because that 15:08 takes us to another level. 15:10 I have often grabbed some Kleenex for someone who's been 15:13 crying, either in the church. 15:14 It was funny because we just had the chairs in our church 15:18 cleaned, professionally cleaned, and the guy that did 15:21 it came to do it, his business, he made a comment to 15:24 one of the members, he said, boy, opened the door for me, 15:27 he said, boy, he said, this is really an emotional church, 15:30 huh? 15:31 And she said, why would you say that? 15:33 Because you guys have boxes of Kleenexes under all of the 15:36 pews. 15:37 And I often grabbed a Kleenex or grabbed the box, grabbed 15:42 the box, but rarely have I taken a Kleenex and gone up 15:47 and wiped the tears, you know. 15:50 And I'm thinking, wow, what kind of picture, what a 15:54 picture is that? 15:56 >>TY: There's another one that parallels that, James, that I 15:59 think is beautiful back in Isaiah where Isaiah is 16:02 describing the Messiah suffering and the Father says, 16:07 I'll hold your hand through it. 16:10 That's in the bible. 16:11 Messiah's going to be incarnate, he's going to 16:13 suffer, but God says, but I'll hold your hand. 16:15 Who holds hands? 16:19 Whose hand do you hold? 16:20 It's a very tender God that we're dealing with. 16:24 >>DAVID: One of my favorite things to do is to hold my 16:26 boys' hands. 16:27 >>JAMES: Really? 16:28 >>DAVID: Yeah, even though they're 15 and 13, they don't, 16:31 they have not... 16:32 >>TY: It's not one of their favorite things, is it? 16:34 >>DAVID: Absolutely, my son, my 15 year old boy Landon will 16:37 regularly reach out and grab my hand walking through the 16:41 mall, walking through a, I love it, too, because he's not 16:45 yet been exposed, nobody's like, razzed him and said, 16:47 hey, that's not cool, what are you doing? 16:49 He doesn't know that that's not cool. 16:51 If he... 16:52 >>TY: That's the very definition of cool. 16:56 I was returning shoes one time in a department store and Sue 17:01 and my son, Jason, were circling the block because 17:04 they weren't gonna park, I was gonna do this real quick, get 17:06 back in the car, but it was taking longer than it should 17:09 take and so, Sue sent Jason in, you know, at this point 17:13 he's like, he's like 18 years old, and this 18 year old boy 17:17 comes in, as I'm doing business with the person 17:20 behind the counter, and he just comes up, he sees I'm, so 17:23 he's not gonna interrupt, he just comes up and he throws 17:25 his arms around my shoulders and my neck and he just hangs 17:28 his chin on my shoulder and just waits for it to get done. 17:31 >>JAMES: I've seen him do that. 17:33 >>TY: He still does that to this day. 17:35 And he just wraps his arms and he holds on to me, and then he 17:38 whispers, we're gonna loop one more time and then, he goes 17:40 out. 17:42 And the lady that I'm returning these shoes to, I'm 17:44 thinking nothing of it. 17:46 >>DAVID: This is your normal. 17:47 >>TY: Yeah, this lady, she looks at me, she says, who was 17:49 that? 17:50 And I said, well, that's my son. 17:54 And she began to cry, she began to cry. 17:58 She said, I would love for my son to love his father like 18:04 that. 18:06 So, what you're describing, David, what you're describing, 18:07 your 15 year old son holding your hand, that is cool. 18:12 The whole universe eventually is gonna look like that. 18:17 The whole universe is gonna be filled with that kind of 18:20 tenderness. 18:21 >>DAVID: Genuine affection, no shame, no humiliation, no 18:24 concern about what others think. 18:26 >>TY: Love it. 18:28 So, we haven't even, we need some Kleenex. 18:31 But we do have to take a break and then we'll come back and 18:35 continue on. 18:38 [Music] 18:49 >>This is the story of Niyima, who took a bus to the 18:53 doctor and found a piece of paper with words of hope about 18:57 Jesus, which was left by a church member who unpacked a 19:01 box that came from a truck which drove in from Durban 19:05 where a ship was docked that sailed from Seattle, loaded 19:10 with containers stacked high with millions of tracts, 19:14 trucked in from the Light Bearers Publishing House, 19:17 where more than 600 million pieces of gospel literature 19:21 have been printed in 42 languages. 19:24 Here's the amazing thing, Light Bearers distributes this 19:28 literature free of charge all over the world, and each piece 19:33 costs only 5 pennies to print, transport, and deliver. 19:39 Every day, millions of people buy a $5 cup of coffee, $5 a 19:44 cup, 5 days a week. 19:47 It adds up fast. 19:49 But at just 5 cents apiece, that same $25 can also ship 19:54 500 pieces of literature and give hope to people like 19:58 Niyima, who shared that paper with a classmate, who gave it 20:04 to her cousin, who shared it with his boss, who passed it 20:08 to her grandmother, who left it on another bus, where it 20:13 will be found by someone else. 20:16 And the story continues. 20:19 Five cents doesn't buy a lot these days, but in other parts 20:23 of the world, your nickel could change someone's life. 20:27 Your gift of $25 a month sends out 6,000 pieces of gospel 20:33 literature each year. 20:34 Fifty dollars sends out 12,000, and $100 a month sends 20:39 out 24,000 messages of hope every year, all over the 20:44 world. 20:45 Empower Light Bearers to continue the story. 20:49 Send your gift through lightbearers.org, or by 20:52 calling 877-585-1111. 20:58 Who knew 5 little pennies could do so much? 21:02 [Music] 21:08 >>TY: So, as we're looking at Revelation 21 and 22, Jeffrey 21:10 made this powerful point that these two chapters at the end 21:14 of the bible are like a mirror image of the first two 21:18 chapters of the bible, Genesis 1 and 2. 21:20 These are the only four chapters in the bible that 21:24 describe the world without sin and suffering, and so, they're 21:32 like, what did you call it, Jeffrey? 21:34 Bookends. 21:35 And then, the way I'd like to describe it is that everything 21:37 in between is God navigating evil. 21:41 He's dealing with evil, the sin problem and everything 21:46 that is wrong with the world, he's navigating through and he 21:51 is relating to human beings in such a way that he is, on the 21:56 one hand, accommodating our fallen condition, there are 21:59 many things that I would tell you, but you can't bear them 22:01 now, so, I'm gonna incrementally give you truth 22:03 as you can bear it so I don't sent you running away from me. 22:06 And he is constantly relating with covenant promise. 22:13 Now, a key part of the covenant promise through the 22:16 Old Testament where God is navigating through is he's 22:19 promising land, he's promising a city, he's promising an 22:25 urban center, what's that? 22:29 >>JEFFREY: A promised land. 22:30 >>TY: A promised land, but he's also promising a city. 22:33 He's, we're all headed for urban living, we're gonna 22:37 have, you know, the whole country around us, of course, 22:40 but God is describing a social network called Jerusalem. 22:45 Now, Jerusalem is a word that means city of Shalom, or city 22:52 of peace. 22:53 And that's what's described here in Revelation 21, it 22:56 says, New Jerusalem came down to earth. 22:59 There's gonna be a city, there's gonna be a thriving 23:01 metropolis, in which there are people living together and 23:07 it's called Jerusalem. 23:08 Now, this concept of Jerusalem, if you wouldn't 23:10 mind, I'd like to take you to a passage in the Old Testament 23:13 that I mentioned in a previous time, but I didn't wanna read 23:17 it then because I really was looking forward to sharing it 23:19 and talking about it right now. 23:20 Isaiah chapter 2, this is a high point of scripture. 23:25 This is a mountaintop of revelation here regarding 23:28 God's ultimate purpose for the world. 23:32 Isaiah chapter 2, David, would you just read through? 23:36 >>DAVID: I should probably turn there. 23:38 >>TY: Yeah, or Jeffrey's there. 23:39 Jeffrey, can you just read Isaiah chapter 2, starting 23:42 with verse 1-4? 23:43 1-4. 23:44 >>JEFFREY: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw 23:47 concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 23:50 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the 23:53 mountain of the Lord's house shall be established on the 23:56 top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the 23:59 hills. 24:00 And all nations shall flow to it. 24:03 Many people shall come and say, come, and let us go up to 24:05 the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. 24:09 He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths. 24:14 For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the 24:17 Lord from Jerusalem. 24:19 He shall judge between the nations, and rebuke many 24:23 people. 24:24 They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their 24:30 spears into pruning hooks. 24:32 Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall 24:37 they learn war anymore. 24:39 >>TY: To me, this passage, two times, Jerusalem is mentioned, 24:44 Zion is mentioned, and it's describing, in an early 24:49 passage, what is more fully described in Revelation 24:52 21 and 22. 24:53 This is the final establishment of God's order 24:58 of things. 24:59 This is the way God wants things to be and he's 25:03 promising, it's gonna be this way. 25:05 And the way it's going to happen is that the law of God 25:10 is going to be taught, and as the law of God is taught, 25:14 people are gonna say, oh, that's incredible. 25:16 Now, do you remember in Deuteronomy where Moses said, 25:19 God has given you this great body of laws, Moses was the 25:23 lawgiver, through Moses, God gave this, what the bible 25:26 calls a body of laws. 25:27 And that body of laws, Moses said, when people, when the 25:31 other nations see that when these laws are implemented, 25:35 there's flourishing on all levels. 25:38 When you go out, and when you come in. 25:41 When you're in the city, when you're in the country, Moses 25:43 said. 25:44 Things are going well for you. 25:46 Everything works the way it's supposed to work when you 25:48 apply God's laws. 25:50 Moses said, with the people see that, when the other 25:52 nations see that, they're gonna come to you and say, 25:56 what is this body of laws you have? 25:58 Who is this God who has given you such great laws that 26:02 everything seems to be flourishing and going well for 26:05 you? 26:06 It's the ultimate evangelism to live out the principles of 26:11 God. 26:12 That's what it's saying, of the kingdom of God, and this 26:14 is promising that the effect of that will be the 26:17 establishment of a city, of a place, of a Jerusalem in which 26:23 there is an elimination of war and the poetry here, they 26:28 shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears 26:33 into pruning hooks, this is implemence of violence 26:37 compared with implemence of agriculture. 26:39 This is the most benign possible society, this is the 26:43 most brutal kind of society and they won't teach war 26:48 anymore. 26:50 Isn't that beautiful? 26:51 >>DAVID: And the word Jerusalem is peace, city of 26:53 peace. 26:55 >>TY: Shalom, but it's not the peace that's popular in a lot 26:58 of circles today, especially in Western culture has 27:02 developed a fascination with the kind of eastern mysticism 27:07 kind of peace. 27:08 >>DAVID: Like a meditative peace. 27:10 >>TY: Me, peaceful by myself, alone, in a state of 27:14 tranquility in my mind. 27:16 That's not biblical peace. 27:17 I'm at peace with myself. 27:19 Nirvana. 27:20 Biblical peace or Shalom isn't a state of mental tranquility, 27:27 it's social peace. 27:30 It's us living together without hurting one another. 27:33 It's everything touching everything without harm. 27:39 And that is ultimately the kind of world that God 27:43 envisions for us. 27:45 >>JEFFREY: But we're supposed to be living out those 27:46 principles. 27:47 We are invited to experience those principles of the 27:50 kingdom of God in the end now while we wait, right? 27:54 So, we're supposed to be getting ourselves in tune to 27:57 what that kind of reality will look like while we're still in 28:00 this reality. 28:01 >>DAVID: It's more than a little ironic and tragic that 28:04 the city of Jerusalem on this earth, as it is now, is the 28:10 most war-torn piece of real estate. 28:13 >>TY: Yeah, what a contrast, huh? 28:15 >>DAVID: There's something going on there in that it 28:19 anticipates, it strongly suggests that there is a great 28:22 controversy and that the resolution that we see with 28:26 the New Jerusalem, as you've been describing here, Ty, when 28:30 it becomes what it is was intended to be, you know, the 28:33 first time I think we're introduced to that is back 28:35 like Genesis 14 when Melchizadech shows up, who's 28:38 the prince of Salem. 28:40 Prince of peace, he's a Christ-like, yeah. 28:45 There's something going on there, it's beautiful. 28:47 >>TY: So, that Isaiah 2 passage, I'm just showing, 28:52 again, I think we've mentioned this over and over again, 28:55 everything in the book of Revelation is rooted in the 28:57 Old Testament. 28:58 All the books of the bible meet an ending the revelation. 29:03 It's, this material is being drawn, chapter 2 of Isaiah's 29:09 incredible, but the other one that, to me, is super 29:12 significant in Isaiah that is talking about the new heavens 29:16 and the new earth in Jerusalem is Isaiah 11. 29:19 Isaiah 11. 29:21 >>DAVID: When you originally said Isaiah, I thought you 29:22 were going to 11. 29:23 I loved 2. 29:25 >>TY: Well, in chapter 2, we have war eliminated and we 29:29 have God saying, essentially, my vision for the world is 29:33 that all people would dwell together in an agrarian 29:36 society, where all the relationships are based on 29:41 cultivating the earth, producing and sharing with one 29:45 another. 29:46 No currency, by the way. 29:48 There's nothing about money in Revelation 21 and 22. 29:51 >>JAMES: There is something there, though, that I think is 29:53 really significant and that is, there are gates of pearl 29:57 and streets of gold. 29:58 In other words, gold in heaven is pavement. 30:03 It's blacktop. 30:04 You know, Bob Dylan once had a song, the lyrics, I was raised 30:08 listening to Bob Dylan, the song lyrics were, I don't 30:10 know, but I've been told, the streets of heaven are lined 30:13 with gold. 30:14 I wonder if things would get much worse if the Russians 30:17 happened to get up there first? 30:19 >>TY: [Laughter] 30:21 >>JAMES: And the whole idea is, on earth, all we think 30:24 about is gold, wealth, getting it first, getting in space 30:28 first, getting to the moon first, getting this, getting 30:30 that, before someone else does. 30:32 Greed, selfishness. 30:33 And what God is saying, and I just think this is absolutely 30:36 fantastic, he's just saying, gold? 30:39 That's pavement. 30:43 That's pavement. 30:44 Pearls, pearls, pearls? 30:46 That's a door in heaven, that's a door. 30:50 >>JEFFREY: So, there's like a full on paradigm shift between 30:53 value systems. 30:55 There's a paradigm shift in value systems. 30:59 What we value is just turned upside down and we're 31:01 introduced to what God really values, and that's this 31:05 environment. 31:06 We're supposed to be living like that right now. 31:08 >>TY: And we are increasingly, aren't we? 31:12 I mean, all of you can think of relationships you have that 31:17 are increasingly free of manipulation and control and 31:20 lying and anything that is ugly and defiling, right? 31:26 Relationships that grow increase in relational 31:30 integrity, and so, we've tasted it, right? 31:34 We've tasted it, imagine a whole world like that. 31:36 >>JAMES: And the more we see it in God, the more we want it. 31:38 Like the wiping of the tears, it's like, oh, I've gotta get 31:41 to that next level. 31:42 That's what we want. 31:43 He appeals to us to draw us to that next level. 31:46 And like you said earlier, he doesn't show us everything at 31:48 one time because it would just knock us out, but then, he 31:51 shows it a little bit more and we're like, oh, yeah, and it's 31:53 so different when God shows it to us. 31:55 It's like it's attractive rather than it's condemning. 31:58 Oh, yeah, I wanna get there, I wanna get there, I wanna get 32:00 there. 32:01 >>TY: What do you think of the Isaiah 11 passage? 32:03 >>JAMES: You haven't read it yet, have you? 32:05 >>TY: Okay, so this is Isaiah chapter 11 and starting with 32:11 verse 6. 32:16 So, the wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, that's a 32:20 predatory creature with a creature that is docile and 32:26 does no harm. 32:29 The leopard shall lie down with the goat, again, this is 32:31 intentional comparison of predatory creatures with 32:36 creatures that are docile and, the calf with the young lion 32:41 and the fatling together, and then, this incredible line, 32:45 and a little child shall lead them. 32:49 So, try to picture this scene. 32:50 You got leopard, you got lion, you got goat, you got lamb, 32:56 and a little child shall lead them. 32:59 Verse 7, the cow and the bear, again, that comparison, shall 33:03 graze together. 33:06 Their young ones shall lie down together, the young ones 33:10 shall lie down together, this is amazing. 33:13 And the lion shall eat straw like an ox. 33:18 So, you got vegetarian lions in this picture. 33:21 The nursing child, this is a toddler, this is an infant, 33:26 you know. 33:27 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and no 33:33 moms are freaking out, obviously. 33:35 And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 33:40 And then verse 9 is incredible, they shall not 33:43 hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth 33:48 shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters 33:52 cover the sea. 33:53 That text is telling us that to the degree that people have 33:58 the knowledge of the Lord as the Lord really is, to the 34:03 degree that we see God as God really is, and get in sync 34:07 with who God is, to that degree, all hurt and harm 34:12 vanishes from human relations. 34:13 >>JEFFREY: And they shall be hurt no more, that reminded me 34:15 of there shall be war no more in the other passage. 34:17 >>JAMES: Yeah, and Ty, what you just said is in verse 10, 34:20 it's incredible, in that day, there shall be a root of 34:23 Jesse, which shall stand as an end sign of the people. 34:27 Jesse was the father of David who Jesus was identified as 34:31 the son of David, so this is talking about Jesus. 34:34 In that day, there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall 34:36 stand as an end sign. 34:37 He's gonna be our pattern, he's gonna be our banner, this 34:40 is what we wanna be like, an end sign of the people. 34:42 To it shall the Gentiles seek and his rest shall be 34:46 glorious. 34:47 His rest. 34:48 In other words, we wanna be like Jesus, and the Gentiles 34:52 wanna see Jesus. 34:53 And when we see him, we're attracted to him, and we just 34:55 enter into this incredible experience of rest from the 34:59 labors. 35:00 There's a comparison, since you brought up David, that I 35:05 think is amazing because when we come to the New Jerusalem 35:09 and the idea that there's no war, there are no implements 35:12 of war, there's no implemence of violence at all in God's 35:16 final reality where God's city is established, but David, 35:21 when he came to the end of his military career said God, I 35:25 want to build you a temple now. 35:28 I'm in retirement, I've been at war, I've been a king and a 35:33 man of war. 35:34 Now, there's a history here. There's a history here. 35:36 The history is that when David is the king of Israel, there 35:40 was one king before him and that was Saul, and before him, 35:43 all there were were prophets, no kings. 35:46 God explained, through Moses, that he did not want to govern 35:52 by kings, monarchs, he wanted to govern by prophets. 35:55 When you govern by a king, you govern by power. 35:57 When you govern by a prophet, you govern by knowledge. 36:01 A prophet is an educator, a teacher, he's communicating. 36:08 So, if you relate to people through a prophet, you're 36:11 relating to people according to the dignity of their 36:14 potential. 36:15 You're saying... 36:16 >>DAVID: You're respecting their intellect. 36:17 >>TY: You're respecting their intellect. 36:19 I'm not gonna micromanage you, I'm gonna elevate you through 36:22 knowledge, okay, they said, no, we want a king, 36:24 eventually, in their history. 36:25 >>DAVID: We don't want our intellect respected. 36:27 >>TY: No, we don't want that, we want a king like the other 36:31 nations around us and God said, no, you can't have a 36:35 king. 36:36 They said, well, we still want one anyway, please give us a 36:38 king, and God said through his prophet, don't be bummed, my 36:42 prophet, Samuel, because they haven't rejected you, they 36:46 rejected me. 36:48 So, go ahead and give them a king, but tell them something 36:50 for me, tell them, if you get a king, this is what it's 36:54 gonna be like, the king will take your daughters as 36:56 concubines, the king will take your men off to war, and the 37:00 king will tax your lands. 37:03 Now, one of the features of the mosaic system was, every 37:06 man under his fig tree and his vine. 37:09 That's the perfect state. 37:10 The perfect state is property ownership, and ultimately, God 37:13 wanted, each Israelite was to own their own plot of land and 37:16 cultivate the land and share with others, with no monetary 37:18 system. 37:20 That is, basically, the whole world is a hippie commune 37:22 without marijuana. 37:23 >>DAVID: [Laughs] 37:24 You just said that. 37:26 I love the fact that Ty just said that. 37:28 >>TY: So, here... 37:29 >>DAVID: You just betrayed your generation, revealed your 37:33 generation. 37:34 >>TY: So, then David says, okay, I wanna build your 37:39 temple, and God does something really odd in the storyline, 37:44 if you don't pay attention to the nuances. 37:46 Because, up to that point, you have God saying, David's a man 37:49 after my own heart, David, I'm blessing you, I'm giving you 37:52 victory in war. 37:54 God is actually empowering David to be victorious in war, 37:57 according to the story. 37:58 And then, he said, you can't build my temple, and David 38:01 essentially says, well, why not? 38:03 >>JEFFREY: You were the one that was leading me through 38:05 all that, you were blessing me. 38:07 >>TY: And suddenly, God says, well, because you're a man of 38:09 war, David, you have blood on your hands. 38:12 To which David might've said, what you said. 38:15 >>JEFFREY: It was under your leadership. 38:17 You gave me those victories. 38:18 >>TY: But, at the last minute, God disassociates himself from 38:21 war. 38:22 God says, okay, but David, you have to remember something, I 38:25 didn't want the people to have a king at all. 38:27 I wanted to set up a system of law through prophets that 38:32 would attract the nations to convert to Israel. 38:36 I wanted a massive evangelistic project to be 38:39 going on. 38:40 I didn't want war. 38:41 >>JEFFREY: All these wars was just me performing some damage 38:44 control. 38:45 >>DAVID: It's accommodation. 38:46 >>TY: It's me navigating evil. 38:47 You're the ones who want war, I don't want, ultimately, I 38:51 don't want war ultimately. 38:52 But you've given me no choice but to be with you, my people. 38:56 I mean, what is my choice? 38:57 Just abandon you and let the whole world go? 39:00 So, I've been with you, but no, you're not building my 39:04 temple because ultimately, the temple of God represents God 39:08 in God's ultimate state and that is, God is not a God of 39:12 violence and hostility and war, and we know that because 39:17 Revelation 21 and 22 reveals that God to us. 39:21 The world when it is the way God wants the world to be. 39:24 >>JEFFREY: It looks like this. 39:25 >>DAVID: Thank you, Jesus. 39:27 >>JAMES: There was another verse here that came to my 39:29 mind as you were talking, Ty, and I just, I really love that 39:33 whole idea because it does wrap up the whole great 39:36 controversy. 39:37 I was thinking about the conquest of Canaan, because 39:40 we're really entering into the new Canaan, in a sense, and 39:43 the conquest of Canaan, and a lot of people have this 39:46 question in their mind about God and he's sending his 39:48 people in there and they're wiping out this group and 39:50 they're wiping out that group and they're wiping out this 39:52 other group, and it's like, what kind of God is this? 39:54 Well, you know, obviously, we're missing something 39:56 because God really owns all of the earth, it's all his, you 39:59 know, so, but the bigger picture, I think, here, is 40:02 what you just explained, and that is, God was never into 40:05 war, well, how do you answer that question, then? 40:08 And the answer to it is found right here in Exodus chapter 40:10 28, or excuse me, chapter 23 and verse 28. 40:14 God is telling his people about the conquest. 40:18 >>TY: 23 what? 40:19 >>JAMES: 23:28. 40:20 And he says, in verse 27, he says, I will send my fear 40:25 before thee and will destroy all the people to whom thou 40:28 shalt come and I will make thine enemies turn thy backs 40:31 unto thee. 40:32 In other words, I'm gonna make them run from you. 40:34 >>TY: That's 28? 40:35 >>JAMES: That's 23:27, yeah. 40:38 I'm gonna make them run from you, and then he says, I will 40:40 send hornets before thee, which shall drive out 40:44 the Hivite and the Canaanite and the Hittite from before 40:48 thee. 40:49 That was the original plan. 40:50 God has this original plan. 40:52 This is how he operates, this is how he works. 40:54 Now, the book of Revelation's brought this all together 40:56 for us. 40:57 It's disclosure. 40:58 Everything I did was in the open. 41:00 I've done nothing but, Jesus said, that hasn't been done 41:03 openly. 41:04 And so, God has this plan of disclosure, and as he's 41:07 discloses, people say, hide us, we don't want anything to 41:11 do with him, let's go to the rocks and fall on us. 41:13 We wanna die. 41:15 We want to die. 41:16 That's what they're saying in Revelation 6, we want the 41:19 rocks to fall on us, we want to die. 41:20 And God is simply saying, you want to die? 41:23 Okay. 41:24 I'll honor that. 41:26 It's not as though God, I'm gonna kill you. 41:28 God is revealing the ultimate consequence of being at odds 41:33 with him and it's not just the New Testament, it's not just 41:35 grace, it's not just Jesus. 41:37 This is all the way through the bible, from beginning to 41:39 end. 41:41 >>TY: Well it's not, not just grace and Jesus, it is just 41:42 grace and Jesus, but what you're saying is grace and 41:45 Jesus is all through the bible. 41:46 >>JAMES: It's not just the Old Testament. 41:48 >>TY: Yeah, we have to take a break, and then we have one 41:50 final segment to tie this up. 41:53 [Music] 42:05 Announcer: The Light Bearers Story is a short award-winning 42:08 video that gives an inside look at one of the boldest and 42:11 most effective missionary ventures of our time. 42:14 You will see how multiple millions of gospel 42:16 publications are flooding the nations free of charge by 42:19 surprisingly simple means. 42:21 For your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, call 42:25 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 42:29 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 42:36 Once again, for your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, 42:40 call 877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers 42:45 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 42:52 Simply ask for the Light Bearers Story. 42:55 [Music] 42:59 >>TY: So, Revelation 21 and 22, you guys, is extremely 43:04 beautiful and powerful. 43:05 One of the things we didn't mention in chapter 21, before 43:08 we move on is that the New Jerusalem is described as a 43:13 bride coming down out of heaven, adorned for her 43:18 husband. 43:19 There is a matrimonial element to the relationship between 43:26 God and his people. 43:27 There is a love that is of that highest possible order, 43:33 the highest kind of love. 43:34 There is a CS Lewis statement, and I can't remember exactly 43:38 where it is, but he says that what God has in store for his 43:42 people is so beautiful, it is a love of such a quality that 43:48 the ecstasy of the best love between a man and a woman in 43:53 this world pales in insignificance compared to the 43:58 love that God has in store between him and his people. 44:02 So, there's this bridegroom element. 44:05 But then, it unfolds from there. 44:08 What other points that we want to draw out of chapter. 44:12 Do you guys think it's significant to the fact that 44:14 the Holy City is measured? 44:17 And that it is as wide and high and, it's a cube. 44:22 >>DAVID: One thing that I will say, before we get to that 44:24 part, I love the emphasis there, and you guys were 44:27 giving me a hard time at the break about being so quiet, 44:29 but that's not because I was disengaged, but because I was 44:32 just, I was just loving the material there. 44:36 In Isaiah 2, in Isaiah 11, I was loving it, I was just 44:39 observing. 44:40 So, I'll try to be a little more participatory here. 44:42 But anyway, the thing that I was gonna say is that one of 44:46 the emphasis there, and I think it's an emphasis that we 44:48 need to make, and that is that our ultimate destiny is not 44:52 heaven in the sense that we sometimes think of heaven, or 44:56 that we usually think of heaven. 44:57 >>JEFFREY: Of a place. 44:59 >>DAVID: Yeah. 45:00 >>TY: Actually, it just means earth, but... 45:01 >>DAVID: That's what I'm saying. 45:02 Our destiny is earth. 45:03 We are earthly people, we are made of the dirt, blessed are 45:05 the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 45:06 And all of those texts that you were reading, yeah, we 45:10 have an earthy future and... 45:12 >>TY: Yeah, going to heaven is more of a Greek idea that was 45:15 imported to Christianity, yeah. 45:17 >>DAVID: I tell people with regularity in my sermons, we 45:19 talk about heaven a lot more than the New Testament. 45:22 The ultimate destiny for God's people is Revelation 21 and 45:27 22, it's the new earth, where we will, and I loved what you 45:30 were talking there about the agricultural, agrarian, social 45:34 connectivity, I loved all of that, and I was very much in 45:37 that and so, I just think it's imperative that we recognize a 45:41 passage of scripture, we don't have time to go to, but Romans 45:43 8, where Paul talks about the redemption of the earth. 45:47 >>TY: And our bodies. 45:50 >>DAVID: And that earth itself awaits the adoption of the 45:54 sons of God. 45:55 There is an intimate connectivity between mankind 45:59 and the earth. 46:00 And I just love that notion, because, as you know, I'm an 46:04 outdoorsy person, I love being outside and hiking and fishing 46:08 and surfing, not that we'll be fishing in heaven, I highly 46:11 doubt that, but, in the new earth, thank you. 46:15 Just this idea that we are earthy people made for earth 46:19 and I love that. 46:19 >>TY: So do I. 46:21 That's incredible, and not only, I know you're a country 46:26 boy and you like the outdoorsy stuff, but also, there's this 46:30 city. 46:31 >>DAVID: Yeah, when you said that, I was like, eh. 46:33 >>JEFFREY: He said, we're gonna be urban, I'm like, yes. 46:35 >>TY: That's Jeffrey. 46:37 Jeffrey's the urban guy. 46:38 >>DAVID: This guy's from Miami, I'm from Wyoming. 46:40 >>JAMES: That's so coo, though, isn't it? 46:41 >>TY: Miami, Wyoming. 46:43 >>JAMES: Because the city takes up about, the space 46:44 about the size of let's say the state of Colorado, the 46:47 state of Washington. 46:48 >>DAVID: That's a really big, scary city. 46:49 >>JAMES: But then you've got all the rest of the earth. 46:51 We didn't look at other verses that describe the fact that 46:55 there's not gonna be any more sea, there's not gonna be any 46:58 more desert, there's not gonna be any more desolate places, 47:00 so the entire earth, outside of the state of Colorado, 47:02 let's say, is all gonna be inhabited by us. 47:05 So, we're gonna have this, if you will, this high rise 47:08 apartment, this you know... 47:10 >>DAVID: See, that just doesn't appeal to me. 47:12 >>JAMES: We're also gonna have this beautiful place in the 47:15 country. 47:16 >>JEFFREY: Free laundry in those apartments. 47:18 >>DAVID: I gotta say, I don't think that, correct me if I'm 47:21 wrong here, when John says there was no more sea, in 47:23 verse 1, I don't think that means there is no more sea, 47:26 because Revelation doesn't mean what it says, it means 47:29 what it means. 47:30 >>JAMES: But I didn't say that. 47:32 If you want me to elucidate on it, I'll say it this way, 47:33 there's not gonna be any more waste places. 47:35 There's not gonna be any more... 47:37 >>TY: How about this, how about this, I think its Isaiah 47:39 33, 'cause, where it says that the desert shall blossom like 47:42 a rose. 47:44 He's just saying, the whole earth is going to be a 47:47 flourishing world. 47:50 >>DAVID: Most life occurs in the ocean. 47:53 Most biological life is in the water. 47:55 Right now, so, it's not a desert, it's not a desolate 47:57 place. 47:58 >>JEFFREY: But it serves as a separation between peoples. 48:00 >>DAVID: I think that's the point that John is making. 48:02 In verse 3, he says with, with, with. 48:05 >>JAMES: Not only that, but the point I'm making is, is 48:08 there's not gonna be the large bodies of water are not 48:11 necessary at that time. 48:12 >>DAVID: We'll see when we get there because this is the 48:14 point that I think that John is making. 48:17 He's on an island, he's in the Aegean Sea, he's cut off from 48:20 everything that's near and dear to him. 48:21 The sea, for him, is separation. 48:23 It's disconnection, it's exile, it's isolation. 48:26 So, I think that's what he's saying, there won't be this 48:29 separation, and the reason I think that is he's, I don't 48:32 think he's just making a geological statement here, 48:35 it's with, it's with, it's with. 48:38 There's no more separation. 48:39 >>TY: So, James is actually making the same point because 48:41 what he didn't get to yet and where he's going is... 48:45 >>JAMES: That there's still gonna be large bodies of 48:47 water, we call sea or oceans. 48:49 >>DAVID: As long as they're big enough to have tides and 48:51 waves. 48:52 >>JAMES: That's what I'm talking about, that's gonna be 48:53 there. 48:54 What I'm talking about is most of the earth right now is not 48:56 land. 48:58 Most of the earth right now cannot be used and I don't 49:01 think that's the way God created it in the beginning. 49:03 In the beginning, there was this mist that came up and, 49:05 but I don't think it eliminates, God made the fish 49:08 and the whales and all the, they're there. 49:10 It's just that it's not gonna be, just like today, we have 49:12 deserts, and I think there's gonna be this place where we 49:14 can see that the landscape is a little bit different, 49:16 whatever. 49:17 >>JEFFREY: There'll be diversity. 49:18 >>JAMES: Right, no waste, nothing will be wasted. 49:20 >>DAVID: I agree with that. 49:22 >>TY: But check this out, you guys, it says in this chapter 49:25 that the city, I was asking about this, it's measured and 49:29 it's a cube and the reason I think that's significant, it's 49:34 symbolic, I don't know how literal the actual, you know, 49:38 that it's a square, that it's a cube, but let's just say it 49:41 is exactly a cube, somebody did the measurement and they 49:44 said, compared to the size of the earth, that it would tilt 49:47 the earth off its axis, but God can overcome all the 49:49 physics of it, so here's the thing, this cube is 49:54 essentially saying, see if you guys, does this make sense? 49:59 The Old Testament revealed the sanctuary and Revelation is 50:03 full of sanctuary language. 50:05 The sanctuary indicated that there was a separation between 50:09 God and human beings. 50:11 The people live out in the camp around the sanctuary and 50:15 the courtyard. 50:16 They are represented through the priest, and at the center 50:21 of the whole thing is the most holy place, which is described 50:24 in the Old Testament, with its measurements, 20 cubits by 20 50:27 cubits by 20 cubits. 50:29 It's a perfect cube. 50:30 That place is the only place in the temple system where the 50:35 visible presence of God dwells. 50:38 That is the Shekinah glory. 50:40 And I think that what this is saying is that all of the 50:44 separation that sin caused between human beings and God 50:49 is gonna be completely elimination and everybody's 50:53 destination is most holy place level intimacy with God. 51:00 That's what it's saying. 51:01 >>DAVID: When the high priest would go into the most holy 51:04 place once a year on the, what is it, 10th day of the 7th 51:07 month, the in Old Testament dispensation, he had all of 51:12 those gems, he's, he brought representation of all of 51:18 Israel in. 51:19 Okay, well, that was in the shadowy sin-filled world. 51:22 In the absence of that sin-filled shadowy world, 51:25 we'll all be having, and I think this is your point, a 51:27 most holy place experience. 51:29 >>TY: Yeah, we'll all be in intimate... 51:31 >>DAVID: And check this out, that is strongly communicated 51:34 in Revelation 22, verse 4, and let me just read verse 1 to 51:38 set it up, right through. 51:41 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as 51:43 crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 51:46 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the 51:48 river, was the Tree of Life, which bore 12 fruits, each 51:51 tree yielding its fruit every month. 51:53 The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the 51:55 nations. 51:56 And there shall be no more curse but of the throne of the 51:58 God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall 52:00 serve him, and they shall see his face, and his name shall 52:05 be on their foreheads. 52:06 That level of intimacy. 52:08 That is an exact return to the edenic ideal of Genesis 1 and 52:13 2, face to face communion. 52:16 Now, we see through a glass darkly, Paul said in 52:18 1 Corinthians 13, but then, face to face. 52:22 So, that is a most holy place experience. 52:24 >>TY: Yeah, it's incredible. 52:26 Face to face with God, the God of the universe? 52:27 >>DAVID: Remember when God said to Moses, no man. 52:29 Oh, God, I wanna see what you're like. 52:30 Okay, in the cleft of the rock, put my hand over you, 52:32 only my back parts because no man can see my face and live. 52:39 >>TY: And yet, here, that's what we're all destined to. 52:42 >>JEFFREY: New Heaven, new earth thing, it's not about 52:43 the gold or the pearls, none of that. 52:46 >>DAVID: That's pavement and doors. 52:48 >>JEFFREY: The point is, face to face communion with God. 52:51 By the way, you see the curse in verse 3? 52:55 There should be no more curse. 52:58 That's Genesis 3 language, right? 53:00 That's the original gospel promise. 53:03 >>JAMES: And the reason why the curse came was because of 53:06 the fall and the reason why the fall came was because of 53:08 this guy right here, the serpent. 53:10 >>DAVID: Notice, I turned him upside-down. 53:11 >>JAMES: He was turned upside-down in Revelation 53:13 chapter 20, but when we get to Revelation chapter 21 and 53:16 chapter 22, this guy is off the table. 53:19 [Laughing] 53:20 He's gone. 53:21 >>JEFFREY: He was waiting to do that. 53:22 >>TY: Did the cameraman survive that? 53:25 >>JEFFREY: He was waiting to do that for like an hour. 53:27 >>DAVID: No I agree. I love it. I love it. 53:29 >>JAMES: He's absolutely God. 53:31 >>JEFFREY: And all the kingdoms of the world, 53:33 no, I'm just kidding. 53:37 >>TY: Speaking of the kingdoms of the world, one final point 53:41 that I think is amazing... 53:42 >>DAVID: I love the fact you just threw that. 53:44 >>TY: I love it, too. 53:45 I didn't want him on the table ever to begin with. 53:48 That's great. 53:49 >>JAMES: We had to endure it. 53:50 >>TY: That's right, that's right, but check this out, you 53:52 guys, this is a point that just recently occurred to me. 53:55 In chapter 21, verse 20-27, the Lamb is the light of the 54:02 new heavens and the new earth and the new Jerusalem, and it 54:05 says in verse 24, and the nations of those who are 54:07 saved, the nations of those who are saved shall walk in 54:10 its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their 54:13 glory and their honor to it. 54:16 Okay, so, nations, so, it's not now a homogenous society 54:23 where everybody is the same. 54:25 Human culture and art, everything that makes unique 54:31 people unique, the nations and their various different ways 54:36 of speaking and being, all the beautiful stuff is retained 54:41 and the bad stuff is deleted and everything good about 54:45 human beings and their individual expressions, it 54:49 says, the bring all their glory, the glory of the 54:53 nations, and all of their honor, all the things they've 54:57 developed, and they bring it and they bring it into this 55:02 new society. 55:03 >>JEFFREY: We'll probably speak Spanish, though, in 55:04 heaven, right? 55:05 >>TY: Well, some will. 55:06 >>JEFFREY: That'll be the language of God's kingdom. 55:09 >>TY: But do you see that point? 55:11 >>DAVID: I get your point and let me just buttress that 55:13 point by saying that whether you look at the whole world, 55:17 the biological world, it is obvious, the genetic world, 55:20 that God values variety. 55:23 Clearly, God values variety. 55:25 Somebody just said to me recently that the incense in 55:26 the sanctuary was combined with, okay, cinnamon, and 55:30 nutmeg. 55:30 That it makes, that there's variety. 55:34 You look at birds, there's 10,000 species of birds. 55:36 You just have all of this indication that God values 55:38 variety. 55:39 So, why would we think that when we get to the best 55:42 expression of God's creative goodness, that homogeneity 55:45 reigns? 55:46 It's like no, all the same now, no, not gonna be that way. 55:49 >>TY: God is redeeming the earth, God is redeeming our 55:51 bodies, God is redeeming culture. 55:56 He's redeeming the human race. 55:58 >>JEFFREY: So, the best of what every culture has to 56:01 offer is concentrated and brought in to the new heaven. 56:04 >>JAMES: But it says it twice. 56:06 It says it in verse 24 with the kings, and then, it says 56:08 it in verse 26 again, it says, and they shall bring the glory 56:11 and honor of the nations into it. 56:13 >>TY: And we have 7 seconds left to say, this was incredible. 56:17 This has been an enjoyable experience to be in the book 56:20 of Revelation together. 56:21 Amen. 56:22 [Music] 56:25 Amen. 56:25 [Music] |
Revised 2018-01-16