[Music]
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[Music]
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>>TY: Well, this is number
13 in the series, so we've come
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to the conclusion of
this Table Talk series.
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>>JEFFREY: We've exhausted
the book of Revelation.
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>>TY: We have not exhaust
it, that's for sure, there's so
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much that we didn't touch
upon, but I'm just wondering
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before we launch into
Revelation 21 and 22, what
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would be the
highlight for you so far?
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A point of discovery, a point
of insight, something you're
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like, wow, that
was time well spent?
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>>DAVID: I loved, and I know
that this is going well back
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and there have been lots
of highlights, but I loved the
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section on Revelation 4 and 5.
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That was growing out of
the sermon that you preached
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recently that I heard on
that and then the opportunity to
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discuss it as a
group, I loved it.
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>>TY: Revelation 4 and
5, what about you, James?
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>>JAMES: Twelve.
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Twelve is always my favorite
and it's just amazing what is
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in there, I loved that whole
concept that's developed there
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of the woman bringing forth
the man child who answers the
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accusations of Satan
and vanquishes all of the
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opposition of the accuser
and just delivers his people.
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I just love that whole
picture, the great controversy
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picture, it's beautiful.
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>>TY: How about you, Jeffrey?
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>>JEFFREY: I loved Revelation
14 and I love that passage,
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here's the patience of
the saints, those who keep the
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commandments and
the faith of Jesus.
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>>DAVID: That was great.
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>>JEFFREY: That
was a highlight for me.
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It's Jesus's faith that
basically projects to us and
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we respond to it.
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I think that was a highlight.
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>>TY: There was
so much good stuff.
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Mine was more recent and that
is the full disclosure idea,
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yeah, last session.
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The language where it says
in chapter 19, verse 11, that he
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that's speaking, he judges,
Jesus judges, the Father has
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given him judgment, and then,
in chapter 20, verse 4, and
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he, Jesus,
commits judgment to us.
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That's an incredible
revelation of God's character
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for me that he commits
judgment to us and he puts
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himself out there to be
evaluated and to disclose
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everything.
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I liked your language
very much, the, what is it?
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Declassified.
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Yeah, declassifying all of
the documents of the Great War
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between good and evil.
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All of history, it's all on
the table, evaluate it, what
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does everybody think?
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>>DAVID: It bodes really well,
I think, for the series that I
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was right at the beginning,
my highlight was 4 and 5, you
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were 12, which is getting
midway through, you were 14,
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which is getting toward
the end, you're just 20.
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That's a good sign.
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I have absolutely
loved this series.
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It's been so easy, not in the
sense that we've been dealing
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always with easy material,
but it's just bubbling and
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bubbling and bubbling.
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I love it.
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>>TY: I think we should
acknowledge the fact that we
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know we haven't exhausted the
book of Revelation and we know
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that we may have said some
stuff along the way that we
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didn't give enough clarity
on that we could have made
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clearer, or spent enough time
on, but we're not here to give
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all the answers anyway.
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We're here to model and to
share bible study, and we're
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hoping that people will not
say, okay, that was finality,
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those guys shared everything,
no, we didn't, we just
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scratched the
service and now we're racing.
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>>JEFFREY: And even
hoping that there would be some
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disagreement on some
minor point here and there that
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would just
stimulate more thought.
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>>TY: Proves that
we're thinking, yeah.
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So, we want people to study,
to read for themselves, and
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not just say, okay, that was
it, that's the definitive word
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on Revelation, it's not.
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It's not the definitive word,
but Jesus is the definitive
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word, he is the faithful
and true witness that gives full
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revelation to the character of
God that makes it possible for
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us to see who God really is
and then, in response to that
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revelation, to ourselves
become a revelation to the
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world that fills the
world with the glory of God, not
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because we have any glory
in ourselves as the church of
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God, but it's his glory
and we're tapping into it.
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And we're experiencing it.
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So, it's, we're at
Revelation 21 and 22 now.
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This is, in fact, the grand
finale, the book is now coming
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to a conclusion and I would
have to say that Revelation 21
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and 22 stands apart, head
and shoulders above anything
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that's ever been written to
describe what the world should
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be like, and what the
world eventually will be like.
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You can't help but read
this and find it attractive and
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beautiful, even if, I don't
know if you guys think this is
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accurate or not, but even
if you believe it's fiction.
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>>JEFFREY: Still beautiful.
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>>TY: Even if you think it's
not true, you can't help but
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read this and wish it were true.
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>>DAVID: I say that a lot in
my preaching, I say, the story
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of God becoming a man and
dying for his undeserving,
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apathetic creation is a
story that just on aesthetic
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grounds, you can appreciate.
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You might say, I think
it's a fairytale, I think it's a
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fiction, I don't believe
it, but aesthetically, in the
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words of Alvin Plantenga,
it's not just the greatest story
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ever told, it's the greatest
story that ever could be told.
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>>TY: You can't
imagine anything better.
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And the reason I think
it's important to frame it like
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that and say, even if you
don't believe it's true, you
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will find yourself attracted
to it, I think the point there
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is to say this, the fact
that you find it attractive
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indicates that it's true.
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That's right,
it has a resonance.
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You're like, oh, my heart
really longs for that kind of
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world, well, why do you
long for that kind of world?
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>>JEFFREY: Not even
having read any of the last 2
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chapters, but isn't it
powerful that the last 2
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chapters basically bridge back
to the first two chapters of
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the whole bible.
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>>TY: Unpack that, Jeffrey.
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>>JEFFREY: In the fact
that the last 2 chapters of the
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bible, chapter 21, chapter
22 of Revelation, you have this
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restored world, and there's no
signs of the curse, there's no
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signs of sin, of
suffering, of pain, of death.
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All that has been removed
and what you have here is just
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this new flourishing of a
new beginning and in my mind, I
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always think that the end
of the bible is really just
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announcing the new beginning,
and so, because it ends that
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way, it wraps back to Genesis
1 and 2, because in the first
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two chapters, the book of
Genesis, you have this edenic
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creation, this beautiful
environment that God created,
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no sin, no pain, no
suffering, no death.
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These are bookends and
they're perfectly complementary.
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You were saying there's
something instinctively within
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us, even if we don't buy
the story, we're like, this is
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beautiful, I
wish that were true.
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Maybe the reason is because
it's anchored back in the
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original story of
humanity, Genesis 1 and 2,
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we are from Eden.
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>>TY: It's like we have
amnesia and you see something
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beautiful and it wants to
trigger your memory, oh, wait
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a minute, I feel like
that's who I am, that's how I'm
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supposed to,
that's the way, who am I?
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Who am I?
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And the memories are coming
back little bit by bit when
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you encounter beauty.
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Beauty, Genesis 1 and 2, a
world without evil, suffering,
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and sin, and Revelation 21
and 22, a world without evil,
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suffering, and sin, you
encounter those ideas and you
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think, hm, maybe I'm meant
to be something more, maybe the
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world is meant to be something
more, and the amnesia starts
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to lift.
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>>JEFFREY: It's like you're
sitting on the rocking chair
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looking at the photo album,
and you've got this amnesia,
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and you're just flipping
through the pictures and it's
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triggering memories, and
you see a picture, who's that?
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Oh, wait, that
looks really familiar.
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Wait a second, that's my wife,
that's my dad, and it's slowly
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coming to you and as these
images become fresh on your
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memory, then you start
piecing together a narrative.
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Where do these
pictures fit into my story?
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And then your story comes alive.
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>>TY: Okay, so
let's look at the text.
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So, Revelation.
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>>DAVID: It's like
reverse Alzheimer's.
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>>TY: Yeah, it's
like reverse Alzheimer's.
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>>DAVID: You're
getting clarity, you're getting
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lucidity.
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>>TY: So, Revelation 21 and
22, just starting with verse 1
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of chapter 21, now I saw a
new heaven and a new earth, for
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the first heaven and the
first earth had passed away.
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Also there was no more sea.
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Then I, John, saw the holy
city, New Jerusalem, coming
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down out of heaven from
God, prepared as a bride adorned
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for her husband.
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And I heard a loud voice
from heaven saying, behold, the
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tabernacle of God is with men,
and He will dwell with them,
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and they shall be His people.
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God Himself will be
with them and be their God.
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And God shall wipe away every
tear from their eyes, there
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shall be no more
death, nor sorrow, nor crying.
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There shall be no more
pain, for the former things have
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passed away.
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Verse 5, then He who sat
on the throne said, behold, I
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make all things new.
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And He said to me, write,
for these words are true and
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faithful.
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Isn't that incredible?
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>>JAMES: Yeah, I noticed
how you stopped naturally right
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there and that's the way, as
you read these verses, that's
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the way it comes across.
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It comes across as
though the first four verses are
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revealing something so
tremendously beautiful and
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significant and powerful
that, by the time it gets to the
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fourth verse, it's like, I
can't continue, I gotta stop
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right now, just for a second
here and I gotta really affirm
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and assure everyone that
everything I just said is
00:10:08.90\00:10:12.44
true, everything I just said
is faithful, yes, God, the God
00:10:12.44\00:10:18.21
of the universe is going to
actually inhabit planet earth
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with his people, he's
gonna tabernacle with them.
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This is going to become,
this fallen world of all of his,
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unfallen world of all this
created universe, this fallen
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world is going to become the
center of the universe, and if
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anyone wants to visit with God
or see God, I'm talking in the
00:10:35.56\00:10:40.14
context here of the fact
that there are other worlds in
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Hebrews and in Job, it
talks about the Sons of God are
00:10:44.31\00:10:47.01
representatives of other worlds.
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If anyone wants to come and
actually visit God, see God,
00:10:49.48\00:10:53.25
they're gonna
come to planet earth.
00:10:53.25\00:10:55.25
This earth is going
to become the center.
00:10:55.25\00:10:57.55
This one blight in the
universe is gonna become the
00:10:57.55\00:10:59.55
place where God dwells
and he stops right there.
00:10:59.55\00:11:02.96
And he, of course, you know,
all that's included in there
00:11:02.96\00:11:06.26
is the wiping away of the
tears, no more death, no more
00:11:06.26\00:11:08.36
sorrow, but he stops right
there and he's saying now, I
00:11:08.36\00:11:10.90
probably need to assure
you, Ty, that what I'm saying is
00:11:10.90\00:11:13.37
true and faithful.
00:11:13.37\00:11:14.37
>>TY: This will happen.
00:11:14.37\00:11:15.37
>>JAMES: This is gonna happen.
00:11:15.37\00:11:16.30
This seems amazing,
but this is gonna happen.
00:11:16.30\00:11:18.37
Because this is God's character.
00:11:18.37\00:11:20.38
God is a God who is gracious,
God is a God who is loving,
00:11:20.38\00:11:22.94
his love in unconditional,
and so, this is just, this is
00:11:22.94\00:11:26.01
kinda like, you know, we think
we're done with Revelation, we
00:11:26.01\00:11:29.82
think we're done with this
exposition of the character of
00:11:29.82\00:11:32.92
God, what is God like?
00:11:32.92\00:11:34.06
We think we're done with that.
00:11:34.06\00:11:35.29
This is just kinda closing it
out, no, this is the capstone.
00:11:35.29\00:11:38.09
The actual, final cherry
on the top type of Revelation
00:11:38.09\00:11:45.03
that we're getting here is,
yes, I've delivered you from
00:11:45.03\00:11:48.24
sin, yes, I've taken care
of the beast, yes, I've taken
00:11:48.24\00:11:50.24
care of all, you know, pain
and suffering, but there's one
00:11:50.24\00:11:53.07
more thing you need to know.
00:11:53.07\00:11:54.08
I'm gonna come
and live with you.
00:11:54.08\00:11:56.58
I'm coming to, that's gonna be
the center of the universe for
00:11:56.58\00:11:58.95
now.
00:11:58.95\00:12:00.18
I'm gonna be actually living
on, my city where I dwell is
00:12:00.18\00:12:03.02
gonna come down to planet
earth and that's where I'm
00:12:03.02\00:12:05.02
gonna live.
00:12:05.02\00:12:05.95
>>TY: I will be with
you for all eternity.
00:12:05.95\00:12:08.02
>>JEFFREY: There's a question
here I wanna throw out, it
00:12:08.02\00:12:10.03
says God will wipe away every
tear from their eyes, how do
00:12:10.03\00:12:12.76
you think that
will actually happen?
00:12:12.76\00:12:14.73
I don't know the answer per
se, I'm just throwing that out
00:12:14.73\00:12:16.73
there.
00:12:16.73\00:12:17.73
How will God
wipe away our tears?
00:12:17.73\00:12:20.24
>>TY: Well, it's poetic, for
sure, he's not walking around
00:12:20.24\00:12:24.57
to the multiplied millions of
the redeemed and saying, yours
00:12:24.57\00:12:27.64
and then yours and
yours, necessarily.
00:12:27.64\00:12:29.74
It's poetically describing
the fact that God is going to
00:12:29.74\00:12:34.58
comfort and heal the sorrows
that have weighed heavy on our
00:12:34.58\00:12:39.15
hearts.
00:12:39.15\00:12:40.22
And I think it's interesting
that it's coming out of
00:12:40.22\00:12:42.16
chapter 20.
00:12:42.16\00:12:43.59
So, they've been with Christ
for 1,000 years, all judgment
00:12:43.59\00:12:47.40
was committed to them, the
whole full disclosure process,
00:12:47.40\00:12:51.47
now, if you think about
it, there are some people that,
00:12:51.47\00:12:55.97
even against the overwhelming
evidence of God's goodness and
00:12:55.97\00:13:00.21
the overwhelming outpouring
of God's grace, there are some
00:13:00.21\00:13:03.04
people who are lost.
00:13:03.04\00:13:05.11
So, during the 1,000 year
millennium where this full
00:13:05.11\00:13:08.18
disclosure process is taking
place, it's easy to imagine
00:13:08.18\00:13:13.52
that there's gonna be a lot of
crying, because we're looking,
00:13:13.52\00:13:17.19
as David said, all the
documents are now on the table
00:13:17.19\00:13:22.46
and we're gonna have questions.
00:13:22.46\00:13:24.77
God, what about
her, why isn't she here?
00:13:24.77\00:13:28.14
And God is going to show the
records, the interactions, the
00:13:28.14\00:13:32.81
providences,
he's going to explain.
00:13:32.81\00:13:34.91
He doesn't want any lingering
questions in our minds and
00:13:34.91\00:13:38.95
there's gonna be tears, and
so, when we come to Revelation
00:13:38.95\00:13:41.55
chapter 21, this is one of
the most tender pictures of God
00:13:41.55\00:13:46.35
imaginable.
00:13:46.35\00:13:47.62
Anybody who sees tears
forming in someone's eyes and
00:13:47.62\00:13:51.33
trickling down their
cheeks that would be inclined to
00:13:51.33\00:13:56.33
wanna lean into that and to
wanna wipe those tears away,
00:13:56.33\00:13:58.90
that's a lot of sympathy,
that's a lot of love, that's a
00:13:58.90\00:14:02.34
beautiful picture of the
fact that God isn't merely
00:14:02.34\00:14:06.17
powerful, he's all powerful,
but he's not merely all
00:14:06.17\00:14:08.84
powerful, God isn't merely
holy, he's holiest in itself.
00:14:08.84\00:14:13.08
God is love and he feels
the feelings of others and he's
00:14:13.08\00:14:18.92
reaching out to comfort and
he's saying, hey, it's gonna
00:14:18.92\00:14:23.06
be okay, eternity now is going
to stretch out before you and
00:14:23.06\00:14:27.83
there's going to be, well,
later on, it says, the leaves
00:14:27.83\00:14:31.80
of the tree of life are
for the healing of the nations.
00:14:31.80\00:14:35.00
That's after, I don't know
exactly what that means, after
00:14:35.00\00:14:38.91
sin is completely destroyed
and you're in the new heavens
00:14:38.91\00:14:42.68
and the new earth, there's
still, we're still healing.
00:14:42.68\00:14:46.15
Not healing from sin.
00:14:46.15\00:14:48.88
People aren't still sinning
and repenting, but there's
00:14:48.88\00:14:52.05
definitely some residual
damage, emotional damage that
00:14:52.05\00:14:55.52
sin has caused and there's
gonna be healing process for
00:14:55.52\00:15:00.20
some time.
00:15:00.20\00:15:01.16
How long?
00:15:01.16\00:15:02.30
I don't know, nobody
knows, but I think that's what's
00:15:02.30\00:15:04.60
going on with
the tears, Jeffrey.
00:15:04.60\00:15:06.60
>>JAMES: I really like
that picture, Ty, because that
00:15:06.60\00:15:08.94
takes us to another level.
00:15:08.94\00:15:10.34
I have often grabbed some
Kleenex for someone who's been
00:15:10.34\00:15:13.64
crying, either in the church.
00:15:13.64\00:15:14.81
It was funny because we just
had the chairs in our church
00:15:14.81\00:15:18.75
cleaned, professionally
cleaned, and the guy that did
00:15:18.75\00:15:21.75
it came to do it, his
business, he made a comment to
00:15:21.75\00:15:24.69
one of the members, he said,
boy, opened the door for me,
00:15:24.69\00:15:27.16
he said, boy, he said, this
is really an emotional church,
00:15:27.16\00:15:30.09
huh?
00:15:30.09\00:15:31.26
And she said, why
would you say that?
00:15:31.26\00:15:33.26
Because you guys have boxes
of Kleenexes under all of the
00:15:33.26\00:15:36.33
pews.
00:15:36.33\00:15:37.53
And I often grabbed a Kleenex
or grabbed the box, grabbed
00:15:37.53\00:15:42.00
the box, but rarely have I
taken a Kleenex and gone up
00:15:42.00\00:15:47.44
and wiped the tears, you know.
00:15:47.44\00:15:50.21
And I'm thinking, wow,
what kind of picture, what a
00:15:50.21\00:15:54.95
picture is that?
00:15:54.95\00:15:56.75
>>TY: There's another one that
parallels that, James, that I
00:15:56.75\00:15:59.42
think is beautiful back
in Isaiah where Isaiah is
00:15:59.42\00:16:02.99
describing the Messiah
suffering and the Father says,
00:16:02.99\00:16:07.66
I'll hold your hand through it.
00:16:07.66\00:16:10.50
That's in the bible.
00:16:10.50\00:16:11.47
Messiah's going to be
incarnate, he's going to
00:16:11.47\00:16:13.60
suffer, but God says,
but I'll hold your hand.
00:16:13.60\00:16:15.60
Who holds hands?
00:16:15.60\00:16:19.21
Whose hand do you hold?
00:16:19.21\00:16:20.91
It's a very tender God
that we're dealing with.
00:16:20.91\00:16:24.01
>>DAVID: One of my favorite
things to do is to hold my
00:16:24.01\00:16:26.45
boys' hands.
00:16:26.45\00:16:27.45
>>JAMES: Really?
00:16:27.45\00:16:28.62
>>DAVID: Yeah, even though
they're 15 and 13, they don't,
00:16:28.62\00:16:31.59
they have not...
00:16:31.59\00:16:32.65
>>TY: It's not one of
their favorite things, is it?
00:16:32.65\00:16:34.59
>>DAVID: Absolutely, my son,
my 15 year old boy Landon will
00:16:34.59\00:16:37.96
regularly reach out and
grab my hand walking through the
00:16:37.96\00:16:41.80
mall, walking through a, I
love it, too, because he's not
00:16:41.80\00:16:45.63
yet been exposed, nobody's
like, razzed him and said,
00:16:45.63\00:16:47.94
hey, that's not
cool, what are you doing?
00:16:47.94\00:16:49.94
He doesn't know
that that's not cool.
00:16:49.94\00:16:51.94
If he...
00:16:51.94\00:16:52.87
>>TY: That's the
very definition of cool.
00:16:52.87\00:16:56.48
I was returning shoes one time
in a department store and Sue
00:16:56.48\00:17:01.92
and my son, Jason, were
circling the block because
00:17:01.92\00:17:04.72
they weren't gonna park, I was
gonna do this real quick, get
00:17:04.72\00:17:06.72
back in the car, but it was
taking longer than it should
00:17:06.72\00:17:09.32
take and so, Sue sent Jason
in, you know, at this point
00:17:09.32\00:17:13.26
he's like, he's like 18 years
old, and this 18 year old boy
00:17:13.26\00:17:17.77
comes in, as I'm doing
business with the person
00:17:17.77\00:17:20.00
behind the counter, and he
just comes up, he sees I'm, so
00:17:20.00\00:17:23.24
he's not gonna interrupt,
he just comes up and he throws
00:17:23.24\00:17:25.61
his arms around my shoulders
and my neck and he just hangs
00:17:25.61\00:17:28.98
his chin on my shoulder and
just waits for it to get done.
00:17:28.98\00:17:31.95
>>JAMES: I've seen him do that.
00:17:31.95\00:17:33.31
>>TY: He still
does that to this day.
00:17:33.31\00:17:35.32
And he just wraps his arms and
he holds on to me, and then he
00:17:35.32\00:17:38.55
whispers, we're gonna loop
one more time and then, he goes
00:17:38.55\00:17:40.99
out.
00:17:40.99\00:17:42.09
And the lady that I'm
returning these shoes to, I'm
00:17:42.09\00:17:44.56
thinking nothing of it.
00:17:44.56\00:17:46.13
>>DAVID: This is your normal.
00:17:46.13\00:17:47.30
>>TY: Yeah, this lady, she
looks at me, she says, who was
00:17:47.30\00:17:49.93
that?
00:17:49.93\00:17:50.93
And I said, well, that's my son.
00:17:50.93\00:17:54.04
And she began to
cry, she began to cry.
00:17:54.04\00:17:58.01
She said, I would love for
my son to love his father like
00:17:58.01\00:18:04.81
that.
00:18:04.81\00:18:06.01
So, what you're describing,
David, what you're describing,
00:18:06.01\00:18:07.72
your 15 year old son
holding your hand, that is cool.
00:18:07.72\00:18:12.39
The whole universe eventually
is gonna look like that.
00:18:12.39\00:18:17.19
The whole universe is gonna
be filled with that kind of
00:18:17.19\00:18:20.13
tenderness.
00:18:20.13\00:18:21.26
>>DAVID: Genuine affection,
no shame, no humiliation, no
00:18:21.26\00:18:24.47
concern about what others think.
00:18:24.47\00:18:26.60
>>TY: Love it.
00:18:26.60\00:18:28.07
So, we haven't even,
we need some Kleenex.
00:18:28.07\00:18:31.61
But we do have to take a break
and then we'll come back and
00:18:31.61\00:18:35.48
continue on.
00:18:35.48\00:18:37.68
[Music]
00:18:38.35\00:18:49.56
>>This is the story of
Niyima, who took a bus to the
00:18:49.56\00:18:53.06
doctor and found a piece of
paper with words of hope about
00:18:53.06\00:18:57.43
Jesus, which was left by a
church member who unpacked a
00:18:57.43\00:19:01.84
box that came from a
truck which drove in from Durban
00:19:01.84\00:19:05.64
where a ship was docked
that sailed from Seattle, loaded
00:19:05.64\00:19:10.35
with containers stacked
high with millions of tracts,
00:19:10.35\00:19:14.52
trucked in from the
Light Bearers Publishing House,
00:19:14.52\00:19:17.79
where more than 600 million
pieces of gospel literature
00:19:17.79\00:19:21.79
have been
printed in 42 languages.
00:19:21.79\00:19:24.56
Here's the amazing thing,
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00:19:24.56\00:19:28.20
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Every day, millions of people
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It adds up fast.
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But at just 5 cents apiece,
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00:19:58.86\00:20:04.40
to her cousin, who shared
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00:20:04.40\00:20:08.47
to her grandmother, who
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00:20:08.47\00:20:13.34
will be found by someone else.
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And the story continues.
00:20:16.64\00:20:19.91
Five cents doesn't buy a lot
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Who knew 5 little
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00:20:58.15\00:21:01.49
[Music]
00:21:02.12\00:21:08.06
>>TY: So, as we're looking
at Revelation 21 and 22, Jeffrey
00:21:08.33\00:21:10.13
made this powerful point that
these two chapters at the end
00:21:10.13\00:21:14.54
of the bible are like a
mirror image of the first two
00:21:14.54\00:21:18.31
chapters of the
bible, Genesis 1 and 2.
00:21:18.31\00:21:20.41
These are the only four
chapters in the bible that
00:21:20.41\00:21:24.75
describe the world without sin
and suffering, and so, they're
00:21:24.75\00:21:32.22
like, what did
you call it, Jeffrey?
00:21:32.22\00:21:34.22
Bookends.
00:21:34.22\00:21:35.46
And then, the way I'd like to
describe it is that everything
00:21:35.46\00:21:37.96
in between is
God navigating evil.
00:21:37.96\00:21:41.60
He's dealing with evil,
the sin problem and everything
00:21:41.60\00:21:46.03
that is wrong with the world,
he's navigating through and he
00:21:46.03\00:21:51.14
is relating to human beings
in such a way that he is, on the
00:21:51.14\00:21:56.34
one hand, accommodating
our fallen condition, there are
00:21:56.34\00:21:59.51
many things that I would tell
you, but you can't bear them
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.52
now, so, I'm gonna
incrementally give you truth
00:22:01.52\00:22:03.59
as you can bear it so I don't
sent you running away from me.
00:22:03.59\00:22:06.05
And he is constantly
relating with covenant promise.
00:22:06.05\00:22:13.13
Now, a key part of the
covenant promise through the
00:22:13.13\00:22:16.46
Old Testament where God
is navigating through is he's
00:22:16.46\00:22:19.27
promising land, he's promising
a city, he's promising an
00:22:19.27\00:22:25.24
urban center, what's that?
00:22:25.24\00:22:29.48
>>JEFFREY: A promised land.
00:22:29.48\00:22:30.61
>>TY: A promised land, but
he's also promising a city.
00:22:30.61\00:22:33.38
He's, we're all headed
for urban living, we're gonna
00:22:33.38\00:22:37.22
have, you know, the whole
country around us, of course,
00:22:37.22\00:22:40.16
but God is describing a
social network called Jerusalem.
00:22:40.16\00:22:45.23
Now, Jerusalem is a word that
means city of Shalom, or city
00:22:45.23\00:22:52.10
of peace.
00:22:52.10\00:22:53.23
And that's what's described
here in Revelation 21, it
00:22:53.23\00:22:56.91
says, New
Jerusalem came down to earth.
00:22:56.91\00:22:59.57
There's gonna be a city,
there's gonna be a thriving
00:22:59.57\00:23:01.94
metropolis, in which there
are people living together and
00:23:01.94\00:23:07.02
it's called Jerusalem.
00:23:07.02\00:23:08.02
Now, this concept of
Jerusalem, if you wouldn't
00:23:08.02\00:23:10.89
mind, I'd like to take you to
a passage in the Old Testament
00:23:10.89\00:23:13.59
that I mentioned in a previous
time, but I didn't wanna read
00:23:13.59\00:23:17.13
it then because I really was
looking forward to sharing it
00:23:17.13\00:23:19.86
and talking about it right now.
00:23:19.86\00:23:20.93
Isaiah chapter 2, this is
a high point of scripture.
00:23:20.93\00:23:25.37
This is a mountaintop of
revelation here regarding
00:23:25.37\00:23:28.60
God's ultimate
purpose for the world.
00:23:28.60\00:23:32.37
Isaiah chapter 2, David,
would you just read through?
00:23:32.37\00:23:36.38
>>DAVID: I should
probably turn there.
00:23:36.38\00:23:38.38
>>TY: Yeah, or Jeffrey's there.
00:23:38.38\00:23:39.85
Jeffrey, can you just
read Isaiah chapter 2, starting
00:23:39.85\00:23:42.88
with verse 1-4?
00:23:42.88\00:23:43.89
1-4.
00:23:43.89\00:23:44.92
>>JEFFREY: The word that
Isaiah the son of Amoz saw
00:23:44.92\00:23:47.39
concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
00:23:47.39\00:23:50.26
Now it shall come to pass
in the latter days that the
00:23:50.26\00:23:53.50
mountain of the Lord's house
shall be established on the
00:23:53.50\00:23:56.16
top of the mountains, and
shall be exalted above the
00:23:56.16\00:23:59.90
hills.
00:23:59.90\00:24:00.90
And all nations
shall flow to it.
00:24:00.90\00:24:03.27
Many people shall come and
say, come, and let us go up to
00:24:03.27\00:24:05.77
the mountain of the Lord, to
the house of the God of Jacob.
00:24:05.77\00:24:09.71
He will teach us His ways,
and we shall walk in His paths.
00:24:09.71\00:24:14.52
For out of Zion shall go forth
the law, and the word of the
00:24:14.52\00:24:17.89
Lord from Jerusalem.
00:24:17.89\00:24:19.62
He shall judge between
the nations, and rebuke many
00:24:19.62\00:24:23.12
people.
00:24:23.12\00:24:24.26
They shall beat their swords
into plowshares, and their
00:24:24.26\00:24:30.17
spears into pruning hooks.
00:24:30.17\00:24:32.50
Nation shall not lift up sword
against nation, neither shall
00:24:32.50\00:24:37.31
they learn war anymore.
00:24:37.31\00:24:39.34
>>TY: To me, this passage, two
times, Jerusalem is mentioned,
00:24:39.34\00:24:44.68
Zion is mentioned, and
it's describing, in an early
00:24:44.68\00:24:49.32
passage, what is more
fully described in Revelation
00:24:49.32\00:24:52.52
21 and 22.
00:24:52.52\00:24:53.99
This is the final
establishment of God's order
00:24:53.99\00:24:58.13
of things.
00:24:58.13\00:24:59.56
This is the way God
wants things to be and he's
00:24:59.56\00:25:03.40
promising, it's
gonna be this way.
00:25:03.40\00:25:05.40
And the way it's going to
happen is that the law of God
00:25:05.40\00:25:10.57
is going to be taught, and
as the law of God is taught,
00:25:10.57\00:25:14.54
people are gonna say,
oh, that's incredible.
00:25:14.54\00:25:16.85
Now, do you remember in
Deuteronomy where Moses said,
00:25:16.85\00:25:19.91
God has given you this great
body of laws, Moses was the
00:25:19.91\00:25:23.15
lawgiver, through Moses,
God gave this, what the bible
00:25:23.15\00:25:26.02
calls a body of laws.
00:25:26.02\00:25:27.99
And that body of laws, Moses
said, when people, when the
00:25:27.99\00:25:31.33
other nations see that
when these laws are implemented,
00:25:31.33\00:25:35.53
there's
flourishing on all levels.
00:25:35.53\00:25:38.63
When you go out,
and when you come in.
00:25:38.63\00:25:41.24
When you're in the city, when
you're in the country, Moses
00:25:41.24\00:25:43.64
said.
00:25:43.64\00:25:44.64
Things are going well for you.
00:25:44.64\00:25:46.07
Everything works the way
it's supposed to work when you
00:25:46.07\00:25:48.81
apply God's laws.
00:25:48.81\00:25:50.55
Moses said, with the
people see that, when the other
00:25:50.55\00:25:52.68
nations see that, they're
gonna come to you and say,
00:25:52.68\00:25:56.72
what is this
body of laws you have?
00:25:56.72\00:25:58.79
Who is this God who has
given you such great laws that
00:25:58.79\00:26:02.86
everything seems to be
flourishing and going well for
00:26:02.86\00:26:05.29
you?
00:26:05.29\00:26:06.49
It's the ultimate evangelism
to live out the principles of
00:26:06.49\00:26:11.17
God.
00:26:11.17\00:26:12.33
That's what it's saying, of
the kingdom of God, and this
00:26:12.33\00:26:14.40
is promising that the
effect of that will be the
00:26:14.40\00:26:17.61
establishment of a city, of a
place, of a Jerusalem in which
00:26:17.61\00:26:23.48
there is an elimination of
war and the poetry here, they
00:26:23.48\00:26:28.72
shall beat their swords
into plowshares and their spears
00:26:28.72\00:26:33.66
into pruning hooks, this
is implemence of violence
00:26:33.66\00:26:37.33
compared with
implemence of agriculture.
00:26:37.33\00:26:39.93
This is the most benign
possible society, this is the
00:26:39.93\00:26:43.37
most brutal kind of
society and they won't teach war
00:26:43.37\00:26:48.84
anymore.
00:26:48.84\00:26:50.24
Isn't that beautiful?
00:26:50.24\00:26:51.67
>>DAVID: And the word
Jerusalem is peace, city of
00:26:51.67\00:26:53.91
peace.
00:26:53.91\00:26:55.14
>>TY: Shalom, but it's not the
peace that's popular in a lot
00:26:55.14\00:26:58.91
of circles today, especially
in Western culture has
00:26:58.91\00:27:02.68
developed a fascination with
the kind of eastern mysticism
00:27:02.68\00:27:07.59
kind of peace.
00:27:07.59\00:27:08.59
>>DAVID: Like a
meditative peace.
00:27:08.59\00:27:10.59
>>TY: Me, peaceful by
myself, alone, in a state of
00:27:10.59\00:27:14.50
tranquility in my mind.
00:27:14.50\00:27:16.00
That's not biblical peace.
00:27:16.00\00:27:17.57
I'm at peace with myself.
00:27:17.57\00:27:19.03
Nirvana.
00:27:19.03\00:27:20.97
Biblical peace or Shalom isn't
a state of mental tranquility,
00:27:20.97\00:27:27.54
it's social peace.
00:27:27.54\00:27:30.71
It's us living together
without hurting one another.
00:27:30.71\00:27:33.82
It's everything touching
everything without harm.
00:27:33.82\00:27:39.59
And that is ultimately
the kind of world that God
00:27:39.59\00:27:43.43
envisions for us.
00:27:43.43\00:27:45.06
>>JEFFREY: But we're
supposed to be living out those
00:27:45.06\00:27:46.03
principles.
00:27:46.03\00:27:47.10
We are invited to experience
those principles of the
00:27:47.10\00:27:50.57
kingdom of God in the
end now while we wait, right?
00:27:50.57\00:27:54.24
So, we're supposed to be
getting ourselves in tune to
00:27:54.24\00:27:57.07
what that kind of reality will
look like while we're still in
00:27:57.07\00:28:00.58
this reality.
00:28:00.58\00:28:01.74
>>DAVID: It's more than a
little ironic and tragic that
00:28:01.74\00:28:04.48
the city of Jerusalem on
this earth, as it is now, is the
00:28:04.48\00:28:10.52
most war-torn
piece of real estate.
00:28:10.52\00:28:13.02
>>TY: Yeah,
what a contrast, huh?
00:28:13.02\00:28:15.56
>>DAVID: There's something
going on there in that it
00:28:15.56\00:28:19.73
anticipates, it strongly
suggests that there is a great
00:28:19.73\00:28:22.76
controversy and that the
resolution that we see with
00:28:22.76\00:28:26.97
the New Jerusalem, as you've
been describing here, Ty, when
00:28:26.97\00:28:30.87
it becomes what it is was
intended to be, you know, the
00:28:30.87\00:28:33.17
first time I think we're
introduced to that is back
00:28:33.17\00:28:35.58
like Genesis 14 when
Melchizadech shows up, who's
00:28:35.58\00:28:38.18
the prince of Salem.
00:28:38.18\00:28:40.62
Prince of peace,
he's a Christ-like, yeah.
00:28:40.62\00:28:45.15
There's something going
on there, it's beautiful.
00:28:45.15\00:28:47.16
>>TY: So, that Isaiah 2
passage, I'm just showing,
00:28:47.16\00:28:52.06
again, I think we've mentioned
this over and over again,
00:28:52.06\00:28:55.40
everything in the book of
Revelation is rooted in the
00:28:55.40\00:28:57.47
Old Testament.
00:28:57.47\00:28:58.87
All the books of the bible
meet an ending the revelation.
00:28:58.87\00:29:03.61
It's, this material is being
drawn, chapter 2 of Isaiah's
00:29:03.61\00:29:09.21
incredible, but the
other one that, to me, is super
00:29:09.21\00:29:12.48
significant in Isaiah that
is talking about the new heavens
00:29:12.48\00:29:16.65
and the new earth in
Jerusalem is Isaiah 11.
00:29:16.65\00:29:19.32
Isaiah 11.
00:29:19.32\00:29:21.32
>>DAVID: When you originally
said Isaiah, I thought you
00:29:21.32\00:29:22.59
were going to 11.
00:29:22.59\00:29:23.79
I loved 2.
00:29:23.79\00:29:25.06
>>TY: Well, in chapter 2,
we have war eliminated and we
00:29:25.06\00:29:29.26
have God saying, essentially,
my vision for the world is
00:29:29.26\00:29:33.47
that all people would
dwell together in an agrarian
00:29:33.47\00:29:36.77
society, where all the
relationships are based on
00:29:36.77\00:29:41.61
cultivating the earth,
producing and sharing with one
00:29:41.61\00:29:45.91
another.
00:29:45.91\00:29:46.92
No currency, by the way.
00:29:46.92\00:29:48.02
There's nothing about
money in Revelation 21 and 22.
00:29:48.02\00:29:51.45
>>JAMES: There is something
there, though, that I think is
00:29:51.45\00:29:53.19
really significant and that
is, there are gates of pearl
00:29:53.19\00:29:57.13
and streets of gold.
00:29:57.13\00:29:58.93
In other words, gold
in heaven is pavement.
00:29:58.93\00:30:03.43
It's blacktop.
00:30:03.43\00:30:04.90
You know, Bob Dylan once had
a song, the lyrics, I was raised
00:30:04.90\00:30:08.00
listening to Bob Dylan,
the song lyrics were, I don't
00:30:08.00\00:30:10.24
know, but I've been told,
the streets of heaven are lined
00:30:10.24\00:30:13.04
with gold.
00:30:13.04\00:30:14.28
I wonder if things would
get much worse if the Russians
00:30:14.28\00:30:17.35
happened to get up there first?
00:30:17.35\00:30:19.55
>>TY: [Laughter]
00:30:19.55\00:30:21.22
>>JAMES: And the whole
idea is, on earth, all we think
00:30:21.22\00:30:24.39
about is gold, wealth, getting
it first, getting in space
00:30:24.39\00:30:28.69
first, getting to the moon
first, getting this, getting
00:30:28.69\00:30:30.89
that, before someone else does.
00:30:30.89\00:30:32.16
Greed, selfishness.
00:30:32.16\00:30:33.53
And what God is saying, and
I just think this is absolutely
00:30:33.53\00:30:36.93
fantastic, he's
just saying, gold?
00:30:36.93\00:30:39.67
That's pavement.
00:30:39.67\00:30:41.40
That's pavement.
00:30:43.27\00:30:44.31
Pearls, pearls, pearls?
00:30:44.31\00:30:46.44
That's a door in
heaven, that's a door.
00:30:46.44\00:30:50.61
>>JEFFREY: So, there's like a
full on paradigm shift between
00:30:50.61\00:30:53.65
value systems.
00:30:53.65\00:30:55.32
There's a paradigm
shift in value systems.
00:30:55.32\00:30:59.15
What we value is just
turned upside down and we're
00:30:59.15\00:31:01.89
introduced to what God
really values, and that's this
00:31:01.89\00:31:05.73
environment.
00:31:05.73\00:31:06.96
We're supposed to be
living like that right now.
00:31:06.96\00:31:08.73
>>TY: And we are
increasingly, aren't we?
00:31:08.73\00:31:12.90
I mean, all of you can think
of relationships you have that
00:31:12.90\00:31:17.11
are increasingly free of
manipulation and control and
00:31:17.11\00:31:20.88
lying and anything that
is ugly and defiling, right?
00:31:20.88\00:31:26.68
Relationships that
grow increase in relational
00:31:26.68\00:31:30.49
integrity, and so,
we've tasted it, right?
00:31:30.49\00:31:34.56
We've tasted it,
imagine a whole world like that.
00:31:34.56\00:31:36.93
>>JAMES: And the more we see
it in God, the more we want it.
00:31:36.93\00:31:38.46
Like the wiping of the tears,
it's like, oh, I've gotta get
00:31:38.46\00:31:41.60
to that next level.
00:31:41.60\00:31:42.63
That's what we want.
00:31:42.63\00:31:43.60
He appeals to us to
draw us to that next level.
00:31:43.60\00:31:46.80
And like you said earlier,
he doesn't show us everything at
00:31:46.80\00:31:48.80
one time because it would
just knock us out, but then, he
00:31:48.80\00:31:51.34
shows it a little bit more and
we're like, oh, yeah, and it's
00:31:51.34\00:31:53.34
so different when
God shows it to us.
00:31:53.34\00:31:55.64
It's like it's attractive
rather than it's condemning.
00:31:55.64\00:31:58.48
Oh, yeah, I wanna get there,
I wanna get there, I wanna get
00:31:58.48\00:32:00.65
there.
00:32:00.65\00:32:01.68
>>TY: What do you think
of the Isaiah 11 passage?
00:32:01.68\00:32:03.65
>>JAMES: You haven't
read it yet, have you?
00:32:03.65\00:32:05.65
>>TY: Okay, so this is Isaiah
chapter 11 and starting with
00:32:05.65\00:32:11.39
verse 6.
00:32:11.39\00:32:16.46
So, the wolf also shall
dwell with the lamb, that's a
00:32:16.46\00:32:20.27
predatory creature with a
creature that is docile and
00:32:20.27\00:32:26.81
does no harm.
00:32:26.81\00:32:29.14
The leopard shall lie down
with the goat, again, this is
00:32:29.14\00:32:31.75
intentional comparison
of predatory creatures with
00:32:31.75\00:32:36.45
creatures that are docile and,
the calf with the young lion
00:32:36.45\00:32:41.59
and the fatling together,
and then, this incredible line,
00:32:41.59\00:32:45.73
and a little
child shall lead them.
00:32:45.73\00:32:49.16
So, try to picture this scene.
00:32:49.16\00:32:50.60
You got leopard, you got lion,
you got goat, you got lamb,
00:32:50.60\00:32:56.37
and a little
child shall lead them.
00:32:56.37\00:32:59.04
Verse 7, the cow and the bear,
again, that comparison, shall
00:32:59.04\00:33:03.75
graze together.
00:33:03.75\00:33:06.65
Their young ones shall lie
down together, the young ones
00:33:06.65\00:33:10.42
shall lie down
together, this is amazing.
00:33:10.42\00:33:13.79
And the lion shall
eat straw like an ox.
00:33:13.79\00:33:18.13
So, you got vegetarian
lions in this picture.
00:33:18.13\00:33:21.96
The nursing child, this is
a toddler, this is an infant,
00:33:21.96\00:33:26.23
you know.
00:33:26.23\00:33:27.40
The nursing child shall
play by the cobra's hole, and no
00:33:27.40\00:33:33.34
moms are
freaking out, obviously.
00:33:33.34\00:33:35.34
And the weaned child shall
put his hand in the viper's den.
00:33:35.34\00:33:40.68
And then verse 9 is
incredible, they shall not
00:33:40.68\00:33:43.75
hurt nor destroy in all my
holy mountain, for the earth
00:33:43.75\00:33:48.79
shall be full of the knowledge
of the Lord as the waters
00:33:48.79\00:33:52.73
cover the sea.
00:33:52.73\00:33:53.93
That text is telling us that
to the degree that people have
00:33:53.93\00:33:58.17
the knowledge of the Lord
as the Lord really is, to the
00:33:58.17\00:34:03.91
degree that we see God as
God really is, and get in sync
00:34:03.91\00:34:07.61
with who God is, to that
degree, all hurt and harm
00:34:07.61\00:34:12.08
vanishes from human relations.
00:34:12.08\00:34:13.55
>>JEFFREY: And they shall be
hurt no more, that reminded me
00:34:13.55\00:34:15.98
of there shall be war no
more in the other passage.
00:34:15.98\00:34:17.99
>>JAMES: Yeah, and Ty, what
you just said is in verse 10,
00:34:17.99\00:34:20.32
it's incredible, in that
day, there shall be a root of
00:34:20.32\00:34:23.56
Jesse, which shall stand
as an end sign of the people.
00:34:23.56\00:34:27.60
Jesse was the father of David
who Jesus was identified as
00:34:27.60\00:34:31.97
the son of David, so
this is talking about Jesus.
00:34:31.97\00:34:34.47
In that day, there shall be
a root of Jesse, which shall
00:34:34.47\00:34:36.47
stand as an end sign.
00:34:36.47\00:34:37.64
He's gonna be our pattern,
he's gonna be our banner, this
00:34:37.64\00:34:40.01
is what we wanna be like,
an end sign of the people.
00:34:40.01\00:34:42.04
To it shall the Gentiles
seek and his rest shall be
00:34:42.04\00:34:46.61
glorious.
00:34:46.61\00:34:47.62
His rest.
00:34:47.62\00:34:48.78
In other words, we wanna be
like Jesus, and the Gentiles
00:34:48.78\00:34:52.35
wanna see Jesus.
00:34:52.35\00:34:53.52
And when we see him, we're
attracted to him, and we just
00:34:53.52\00:34:55.96
enter into this incredible
experience of rest from the
00:34:55.96\00:34:59.19
labors.
00:34:59.19\00:35:00.43
There's a comparison, since
you brought up David, that I
00:35:00.43\00:35:05.67
think is amazing because when
we come to the New Jerusalem
00:35:05.67\00:35:09.30
and the idea that there's
no war, there are no implements
00:35:09.30\00:35:12.91
of war, there's no implemence
of violence at all in God's
00:35:12.91\00:35:16.54
final reality where God's
city is established, but David,
00:35:16.54\00:35:21.75
when he came to the end of
his military career said God, I
00:35:21.75\00:35:25.52
want to build you a temple now.
00:35:25.52\00:35:28.36
I'm in retirement, I've been
at war, I've been a king and a
00:35:28.36\00:35:33.36
man of war.
00:35:33.36\00:35:34.40
Now, there's a history
here. There's a history here.
00:35:34.40\00:35:36.33
The history is that when David
is the king of Israel, there
00:35:36.33\00:35:40.07
was one king before him and
that was Saul, and before him,
00:35:40.07\00:35:43.24
all there were
were prophets, no kings.
00:35:43.24\00:35:46.54
God explained, through Moses,
that he did not want to govern
00:35:46.54\00:35:52.51
by kings, monarchs, he
wanted to govern by prophets.
00:35:52.51\00:35:55.25
When you govern by a
king, you govern by power.
00:35:55.25\00:35:57.75
When you govern by a prophet,
you govern by knowledge.
00:35:57.75\00:36:01.36
A prophet is an educator, a
teacher, he's communicating.
00:36:01.36\00:36:08.26
So, if you relate to
people through a prophet, you're
00:36:08.26\00:36:11.13
relating to people according
to the dignity of their
00:36:11.13\00:36:14.70
potential.
00:36:14.70\00:36:15.84
You're saying...
00:36:15.84\00:36:16.74
>>DAVID: You're
respecting their intellect.
00:36:16.74\00:36:17.97
>>TY: You're
respecting their intellect.
00:36:17.97\00:36:19.21
I'm not gonna micromanage you,
I'm gonna elevate you through
00:36:19.21\00:36:22.11
knowledge, okay, they
said, no, we want a king,
00:36:22.11\00:36:24.91
eventually, in their history.
00:36:24.91\00:36:25.91
>>DAVID: We don't want
our intellect respected.
00:36:25.91\00:36:27.15
>>TY: No, we don't want that,
we want a king like the other
00:36:27.15\00:36:31.92
nations around us and God
said, no, you can't have a
00:36:31.92\00:36:35.36
king.
00:36:35.36\00:36:36.56
They said, well, we still want
one anyway, please give us a
00:36:36.56\00:36:38.13
king, and God said through
his prophet, don't be bummed, my
00:36:38.13\00:36:42.90
prophet, Samuel, because
they haven't rejected you, they
00:36:42.90\00:36:46.80
rejected me.
00:36:46.80\00:36:48.70
So, go ahead and give them a
king, but tell them something
00:36:48.70\00:36:50.91
for me, tell them, if you
get a king, this is what it's
00:36:50.91\00:36:54.84
gonna be like, the king
will take your daughters as
00:36:54.84\00:36:56.98
concubines, the king will take
your men off to war, and the
00:36:56.98\00:37:00.58
king will tax your lands.
00:37:00.58\00:37:03.08
Now, one of the features of
the mosaic system was, every
00:37:03.08\00:37:06.29
man under his fig
tree and his vine.
00:37:06.29\00:37:09.09
That's the perfect state.
00:37:09.09\00:37:10.33
The perfect state is property
ownership, and ultimately, God
00:37:10.33\00:37:13.50
wanted, each Israelite was to
own their own plot of land and
00:37:13.50\00:37:16.16
cultivate the land and share
with others, with no monetary
00:37:16.16\00:37:18.77
system.
00:37:18.77\00:37:20.04
That is, basically, the
whole world is a hippie commune
00:37:20.04\00:37:22.70
without marijuana.
00:37:22.70\00:37:23.77
>>DAVID: [Laughs]
00:37:23.77\00:37:24.77
You just said that.
00:37:24.77\00:37:26.64
I love the fact
that Ty just said that.
00:37:26.64\00:37:28.64
>>TY: So, here...
00:37:28.64\00:37:29.81
>>DAVID: You just betrayed
your generation, revealed your
00:37:29.81\00:37:33.25
generation.
00:37:33.25\00:37:34.28
>>TY: So, then David
says, okay, I wanna build your
00:37:34.28\00:37:39.19
temple, and God does something
really odd in the storyline,
00:37:39.19\00:37:44.66
if you don't pay
attention to the nuances.
00:37:44.66\00:37:46.66
Because, up to that point, you
have God saying, David's a man
00:37:46.66\00:37:49.66
after my own heart, David,
I'm blessing you, I'm giving you
00:37:49.66\00:37:52.83
victory in war.
00:37:52.83\00:37:54.00
God is actually empowering
David to be victorious in war,
00:37:54.00\00:37:57.61
according to the story.
00:37:57.61\00:37:58.97
And then, he said, you
can't build my temple, and David
00:37:58.97\00:38:01.38
essentially says, well, why not?
00:38:01.38\00:38:03.55
>>JEFFREY: You were the
one that was leading me through
00:38:03.55\00:38:05.81
all that, you were blessing me.
00:38:05.81\00:38:07.05
>>TY: And suddenly, God says,
well, because you're a man of
00:38:07.05\00:38:09.82
war, David, you
have blood on your hands.
00:38:09.82\00:38:12.09
To which David
might've said, what you said.
00:38:12.09\00:38:15.26
>>JEFFREY: It was
under your leadership.
00:38:15.26\00:38:17.26
You gave me those victories.
00:38:17.26\00:38:18.49
>>TY: But, at the last minute,
God disassociates himself from
00:38:18.49\00:38:21.43
war.
00:38:21.43\00:38:22.66
God says, okay, but David, you
have to remember something, I
00:38:22.66\00:38:25.80
didn't want the
people to have a king at all.
00:38:25.80\00:38:27.80
I wanted to set up a system
of law through prophets that
00:38:27.80\00:38:32.61
would attract the
nations to convert to Israel.
00:38:32.61\00:38:36.98
I wanted a massive
evangelistic project to be
00:38:36.98\00:38:39.68
going on.
00:38:39.68\00:38:40.68
I didn't want war.
00:38:40.68\00:38:41.92
>>JEFFREY: All these wars was
just me performing some damage
00:38:41.92\00:38:44.02
control.
00:38:44.02\00:38:45.02
>>DAVID: It's accommodation.
00:38:45.02\00:38:46.02
>>TY: It's me navigating evil.
00:38:46.02\00:38:47.52
You're the ones who want
war, I don't want, ultimately, I
00:38:47.52\00:38:51.03
don't want war ultimately.
00:38:51.03\00:38:52.66
But you've given me no choice
but to be with you, my people.
00:38:52.66\00:38:56.53
I mean, what is my choice?
00:38:56.53\00:38:57.47
Just abandon you and
let the whole world go?
00:38:57.47\00:39:00.57
So, I've been with you,
but no, you're not building my
00:39:00.57\00:39:04.34
temple because ultimately,
the temple of God represents God
00:39:04.34\00:39:08.91
in God's ultimate state and
that is, God is not a God of
00:39:08.91\00:39:12.75
violence and hostility and
war, and we know that because
00:39:12.75\00:39:17.85
Revelation 21 and 22
reveals that God to us.
00:39:17.85\00:39:21.16
The world when it is the
way God wants the world to be.
00:39:21.16\00:39:24.09
>>JEFFREY: It looks like this.
00:39:24.09\00:39:25.16
>>DAVID: Thank you, Jesus.
00:39:25.16\00:39:27.30
>>JAMES: There was another
verse here that came to my
00:39:27.30\00:39:29.63
mind as you were talking, Ty,
and I just, I really love that
00:39:29.63\00:39:33.13
whole idea because it
does wrap up the whole great
00:39:33.13\00:39:36.17
controversy.
00:39:36.17\00:39:37.24
I was thinking about the
conquest of Canaan, because
00:39:37.24\00:39:40.18
we're really entering into
the new Canaan, in a sense, and
00:39:40.18\00:39:43.65
the conquest of Canaan,
and a lot of people have this
00:39:43.65\00:39:46.01
question in their mind
about God and he's sending his
00:39:46.01\00:39:48.45
people in there and they're
wiping out this group and
00:39:48.45\00:39:50.45
they're wiping out that group
and they're wiping out this
00:39:50.45\00:39:52.45
other group, and it's
like, what kind of God is this?
00:39:52.45\00:39:54.46
Well, you know, obviously,
we're missing something
00:39:54.46\00:39:56.46
because God really owns all
of the earth, it's all his, you
00:39:56.46\00:39:59.59
know, so, but the bigger
picture, I think, here, is
00:39:59.59\00:40:02.66
what you just explained,
and that is, God was never into
00:40:02.66\00:40:05.80
war, well, how do you
answer that question, then?
00:40:05.80\00:40:08.34
And the answer to it is found
right here in Exodus chapter
00:40:08.34\00:40:10.91
28, or excuse me,
chapter 23 and verse 28.
00:40:10.91\00:40:14.94
God is telling his
people about the conquest.
00:40:14.94\00:40:18.15
>>TY: 23 what?
00:40:18.15\00:40:19.15
>>JAMES: 23:28.
00:40:19.15\00:40:20.88
And he says, in verse 27,
he says, I will send my fear
00:40:20.88\00:40:25.65
before thee and will destroy
all the people to whom thou
00:40:25.65\00:40:28.69
shalt come and I will make
thine enemies turn thy backs
00:40:28.69\00:40:31.29
unto thee.
00:40:31.29\00:40:32.33
In other words, I'm
gonna make them run from you.
00:40:32.33\00:40:34.30
>>TY: That's 28?
00:40:34.30\00:40:35.16
>>JAMES: That's 23:27, yeah.
00:40:35.16\00:40:38.00
I'm gonna make them run from
you, and then he says, I will
00:40:38.00\00:40:40.70
send hornets before
thee, which shall drive out
00:40:40.70\00:40:44.27
the Hivite and the Canaanite
and the Hittite from before
00:40:44.27\00:40:48.41
thee.
00:40:48.41\00:40:49.58
That was the original plan.
00:40:49.58\00:40:50.71
God has this original plan.
00:40:50.71\00:40:52.55
This is how he
operates, this is how he works.
00:40:52.55\00:40:54.58
Now, the book of Revelation's
brought this all together
00:40:54.58\00:40:56.55
for us.
00:40:56.55\00:40:57.32
It's disclosure.
00:40:57.32\00:40:58.62
Everything I
did was in the open.
00:40:58.62\00:41:00.49
I've done nothing but, Jesus
said, that hasn't been done
00:41:00.49\00:41:03.36
openly.
00:41:03.36\00:41:04.69
And so, God has this plan
of disclosure, and as he's
00:41:04.69\00:41:07.40
discloses, people say, hide
us, we don't want anything to
00:41:07.40\00:41:11.37
do with him, let's go to
the rocks and fall on us.
00:41:11.37\00:41:13.94
We wanna die.
00:41:13.94\00:41:15.00
We want to die.
00:41:15.00\00:41:16.17
That's what they're saying
in Revelation 6, we want the
00:41:16.17\00:41:19.07
rocks to fall on
us, we want to die.
00:41:19.07\00:41:20.01
And God is simply
saying, you want to die?
00:41:20.01\00:41:23.28
Okay.
00:41:23.28\00:41:24.65
I'll honor that.
00:41:24.65\00:41:26.25
It's not as though
God, I'm gonna kill you.
00:41:26.25\00:41:28.25
God is revealing the ultimate
consequence of being at odds
00:41:28.25\00:41:33.32
with him and it's not just
the New Testament, it's not just
00:41:33.32\00:41:35.89
grace, it's not just Jesus.
00:41:35.89\00:41:37.59
This is all the way through
the bible, from beginning to
00:41:37.59\00:41:39.93
end.
00:41:39.93\00:41:41.10
>>TY: Well it's not, not
just grace and Jesus, it is just
00:41:41.10\00:41:42.20
grace and Jesus, but what
you're saying is grace and
00:41:42.20\00:41:45.30
Jesus is all through the bible.
00:41:45.30\00:41:46.84
>>JAMES: It's not
just the Old Testament.
00:41:46.84\00:41:48.04
>>TY: Yeah, we have to take
a break, and then we have one
00:41:48.04\00:41:50.74
final segment to tie this up.
00:41:50.74\00:41:53.84
[Music]
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00:42:52.03\00:42:54.37
[Music]
00:42:55.87\00:42:59.81
>>TY: So, Revelation 21
and 22, you guys, is extremely
00:42:59.81\00:43:04.15
beautiful and powerful.
00:43:04.15\00:43:05.55
One of the things we didn't
mention in chapter 21, before
00:43:05.55\00:43:08.48
we move on is that the New
Jerusalem is described as a
00:43:08.48\00:43:13.66
bride coming down out
of heaven, adorned for her
00:43:13.66\00:43:18.39
husband.
00:43:18.39\00:43:19.86
There is a matrimonial element
to the relationship between
00:43:19.86\00:43:26.33
God and his people.
00:43:26.33\00:43:27.57
There is a love that is of
that highest possible order,
00:43:27.57\00:43:33.44
the highest kind of love.
00:43:33.44\00:43:34.64
There is a CS Lewis statement,
and I can't remember exactly
00:43:34.64\00:43:38.01
where it is, but he says that
what God has in store for his
00:43:38.01\00:43:42.75
people is so beautiful, it
is a love of such a quality that
00:43:42.75\00:43:48.92
the ecstasy of the best love
between a man and a woman in
00:43:48.92\00:43:53.23
this world pales in
insignificance compared to the
00:43:53.23\00:43:58.07
love that God has in store
between him and his people.
00:43:58.07\00:44:02.07
So, there's this
bridegroom element.
00:44:02.07\00:44:05.71
But then, it unfolds from there.
00:44:05.71\00:44:08.04
What other points that we
want to draw out of chapter.
00:44:08.04\00:44:12.25
Do you guys think it's
significant to the fact that
00:44:12.25\00:44:14.98
the Holy City is measured?
00:44:14.98\00:44:17.62
And that it is as wide
and high and, it's a cube.
00:44:17.62\00:44:22.06
>>DAVID: One thing that I
will say, before we get to that
00:44:22.06\00:44:24.46
part, I love the emphasis
there, and you guys were
00:44:24.46\00:44:27.66
giving me a hard time at
the break about being so quiet,
00:44:27.66\00:44:29.66
but that's not because I was
disengaged, but because I was
00:44:29.66\00:44:32.43
just, I was just
loving the material there.
00:44:32.43\00:44:36.00
In Isaiah 2, in Isaiah 11,
I was loving it, I was just
00:44:36.00\00:44:39.14
observing.
00:44:39.14\00:44:40.21
So, I'll try to be a
little more participatory here.
00:44:40.21\00:44:42.81
But anyway, the thing that
I was gonna say is that one of
00:44:42.81\00:44:46.58
the emphasis there, and I
think it's an emphasis that we
00:44:46.58\00:44:48.32
need to make, and that is
that our ultimate destiny is not
00:44:48.32\00:44:52.82
heaven in the sense that we
sometimes think of heaven, or
00:44:52.82\00:44:56.32
that we usually think of heaven.
00:44:56.32\00:44:57.96
>>JEFFREY: Of a place.
00:44:57.96\00:44:59.13
>>DAVID: Yeah.
00:44:59.13\00:45:00.16
>>TY: Actually, it
just means earth, but...
00:45:00.16\00:45:01.36
>>DAVID: That's what I'm saying.
00:45:01.36\00:45:02.73
Our destiny is earth.
00:45:02.73\00:45:03.97
We are earthly people, we are
made of the dirt, blessed are
00:45:03.97\00:45:05.43
the meek, for they
shall inherit the earth.
00:45:05.43\00:45:06.94
And all of those texts
that you were reading, yeah, we
00:45:06.94\00:45:10.17
have an earthy future and...
00:45:10.17\00:45:12.34
>>TY: Yeah, going to heaven
is more of a Greek idea that was
00:45:12.34\00:45:15.98
imported to Christianity, yeah.
00:45:15.98\00:45:17.71
>>DAVID: I tell people with
regularity in my sermons, we
00:45:17.71\00:45:19.58
talk about heaven a lot
more than the New Testament.
00:45:19.58\00:45:22.22
The ultimate destiny for God's
people is Revelation 21 and
00:45:22.22\00:45:27.22
22, it's the new earth, where
we will, and I loved what you
00:45:27.22\00:45:30.09
were talking there about the
agricultural, agrarian, social
00:45:30.09\00:45:34.76
connectivity, I loved all
of that, and I was very much in
00:45:34.76\00:45:37.20
that and so, I just think it's
imperative that we recognize a
00:45:37.20\00:45:41.70
passage of scripture, we don't
have time to go to, but Romans
00:45:41.70\00:45:43.91
8, where Paul talks about
the redemption of the earth.
00:45:43.91\00:45:47.38
>>TY: And our bodies.
00:45:47.38\00:45:50.21
>>DAVID: And that earth itself
awaits the adoption of the
00:45:50.21\00:45:54.15
sons of God.
00:45:54.15\00:45:55.45
There is an intimate
connectivity between mankind
00:45:55.45\00:45:59.15
and the earth.
00:45:59.15\00:46:00.92
And I just love that notion,
because, as you know, I'm an
00:46:00.92\00:46:04.43
outdoorsy person, I love being
outside and hiking and fishing
00:46:04.43\00:46:08.86
and surfing, not that we'll
be fishing in heaven, I highly
00:46:08.86\00:46:11.57
doubt that, but, in
the new earth, thank you.
00:46:11.57\00:46:15.34
Just this idea that we are
earthy people made for earth
00:46:15.34\00:46:19.07
and I love that.
00:46:19.07\00:46:19.97
>>TY: So do I.
00:46:19.97\00:46:21.14
That's incredible, and not
only, I know you're a country
00:46:21.14\00:46:26.11
boy and you like the outdoorsy
stuff, but also, there's this
00:46:26.11\00:46:30.89
city.
00:46:30.89\00:46:31.95
>>DAVID: Yeah, when you
said that, I was like, eh.
00:46:31.95\00:46:33.12
>>JEFFREY: He said, we're
gonna be urban, I'm like, yes.
00:46:33.12\00:46:35.72
>>TY: That's Jeffrey.
00:46:35.72\00:46:37.13
Jeffrey's the urban guy.
00:46:37.13\00:46:38.93
>>DAVID: This guy's
from Miami, I'm from Wyoming.
00:46:38.93\00:46:40.56
>>JAMES: That's so
coo, though, isn't it?
00:46:40.56\00:46:41.96
>>TY: Miami, Wyoming.
00:46:41.96\00:46:43.33
>>JAMES: Because the
city takes up about, the space
00:46:43.33\00:46:44.97
about the size of let's
say the state of Colorado, the
00:46:44.97\00:46:47.17
state of Washington.
00:46:47.17\00:46:48.20
>>DAVID: That's a
really big, scary city.
00:46:48.20\00:46:49.87
>>JAMES: But then you've
got all the rest of the earth.
00:46:49.87\00:46:51.87
We didn't look at other verses
that describe the fact that
00:46:51.87\00:46:55.94
there's not gonna be any more
sea, there's not gonna be any
00:46:55.94\00:46:58.05
more desert, there's not gonna
be any more desolate places,
00:46:58.05\00:47:00.05
so the entire earth, outside
of the state of Colorado,
00:47:00.05\00:47:02.68
let's say, is all
gonna be inhabited by us.
00:47:02.68\00:47:05.45
So, we're gonna have this,
if you will, this high rise
00:47:05.45\00:47:08.49
apartment, this you know...
00:47:08.49\00:47:10.43
>>DAVID: See, that
just doesn't appeal to me.
00:47:10.43\00:47:12.49
>>JAMES: We're also gonna
have this beautiful place in the
00:47:12.49\00:47:15.33
country.
00:47:15.33\00:47:16.46
>>JEFFREY: Free
laundry in those apartments.
00:47:16.46\00:47:18.33
>>DAVID: I gotta say, I don't
think that, correct me if I'm
00:47:18.33\00:47:21.04
wrong here, when John
says there was no more sea, in
00:47:21.04\00:47:23.84
verse 1, I don't think
that means there is no more sea,
00:47:23.84\00:47:26.94
because Revelation doesn't
mean what it says, it means
00:47:26.94\00:47:29.94
what it means.
00:47:29.94\00:47:30.88
>>JAMES: But I didn't say that.
00:47:30.88\00:47:32.05
If you want me to elucidate
on it, I'll say it this way,
00:47:32.05\00:47:33.45
there's not gonna be
any more waste places.
00:47:33.45\00:47:35.92
There's not gonna be any more...
00:47:35.92\00:47:37.19
>>TY: How about this, how
about this, I think its Isaiah
00:47:37.19\00:47:39.35
33, 'cause, where it says that
the desert shall blossom like
00:47:39.35\00:47:42.99
a rose.
00:47:42.99\00:47:44.06
He's just saying, the
whole earth is going to be a
00:47:44.06\00:47:47.50
flourishing world.
00:47:47.50\00:47:50.23
>>DAVID: Most life
occurs in the ocean.
00:47:50.23\00:47:53.10
Most biological
life is in the water.
00:47:53.10\00:47:55.34
Right now, so, it's not a
desert, it's not a desolate
00:47:55.34\00:47:57.31
place.
00:47:57.31\00:47:58.51
>>JEFFREY: But it serves as
a separation between peoples.
00:47:58.51\00:48:00.21
>>DAVID: I think that's
the point that John is making.
00:48:00.21\00:48:02.14
In verse 3, he
says with, with, with.
00:48:02.14\00:48:05.65
>>JAMES: Not only that,
but the point I'm making is, is
00:48:05.65\00:48:08.02
there's not gonna be the
large bodies of water are not
00:48:08.02\00:48:11.49
necessary at that time.
00:48:11.49\00:48:12.99
>>DAVID: We'll see when we
get there because this is the
00:48:12.99\00:48:14.39
point that I think
that John is making.
00:48:14.39\00:48:17.33
He's on an island, he's in the
Aegean Sea, he's cut off from
00:48:17.33\00:48:20.10
everything that's
near and dear to him.
00:48:20.10\00:48:21.66
The sea, for him, is separation.
00:48:21.66\00:48:23.30
It's disconnection,
it's exile, it's isolation.
00:48:23.30\00:48:26.74
So, I think that's what
he's saying, there won't be this
00:48:26.74\00:48:29.57
separation, and the reason
I think that is he's, I don't
00:48:29.57\00:48:32.47
think he's just making a
geological statement here,
00:48:32.47\00:48:35.84
it's with, it's with, it's with.
00:48:35.84\00:48:38.08
There's no more separation.
00:48:38.08\00:48:39.48
>>TY: So, James is actually
making the same point because
00:48:39.48\00:48:41.02
what he didn't get to yet
and where he's going is...
00:48:41.02\00:48:45.79
>>JAMES: That there's
still gonna be large bodies of
00:48:45.79\00:48:47.72
water, we call sea or oceans.
00:48:47.72\00:48:49.79
>>DAVID: As long as they're
big enough to have tides and
00:48:49.79\00:48:51.43
waves.
00:48:51.43\00:48:52.53
>>JAMES: That's what I'm
talking about, that's gonna be
00:48:52.53\00:48:53.63
there.
00:48:53.63\00:48:54.83
What I'm talking about is most
of the earth right now is not
00:48:54.83\00:48:56.16
land.
00:48:56.16\00:48:58.20
Most of the earth right
now cannot be used and I don't
00:48:58.20\00:49:01.70
think that's the way God
created it in the beginning.
00:49:01.70\00:49:03.34
In the beginning, there
was this mist that came up and,
00:49:03.34\00:49:05.57
but I don't think it
eliminates, God made the fish
00:49:05.57\00:49:08.28
and the whales and
all the, they're there.
00:49:08.28\00:49:10.35
It's just that it's not gonna
be, just like today, we have
00:49:10.35\00:49:12.51
deserts, and I think there's
gonna be this place where we
00:49:12.51\00:49:14.45
can see that the landscape
is a little bit different,
00:49:14.45\00:49:16.79
whatever.
00:49:16.79\00:49:17.72
>>JEFFREY:
There'll be diversity.
00:49:17.72\00:49:18.95
>>JAMES: Right, no
waste, nothing will be wasted.
00:49:18.95\00:49:20.92
>>DAVID: I agree with that.
00:49:20.92\00:49:22.16
>>TY: But check this out, you
guys, it says in this chapter
00:49:22.16\00:49:25.49
that the city, I was asking
about this, it's measured and
00:49:25.49\00:49:29.90
it's a cube and the reason I
think that's significant, it's
00:49:29.90\00:49:34.20
symbolic, I don't know how
literal the actual, you know,
00:49:34.20\00:49:38.84
that it's a square, that it's
a cube, but let's just say it
00:49:38.84\00:49:41.68
is exactly a cube, somebody
did the measurement and they
00:49:41.68\00:49:44.95
said, compared to the size
of the earth, that it would tilt
00:49:44.95\00:49:47.25
the earth off its axis,
but God can overcome all the
00:49:47.25\00:49:49.32
physics of it, so
here's the thing, this cube is
00:49:49.32\00:49:54.56
essentially saying, see if
you guys, does this make sense?
00:49:54.56\00:49:59.56
The Old Testament revealed
the sanctuary and Revelation is
00:49:59.56\00:50:03.50
full of sanctuary language.
00:50:03.50\00:50:05.10
The sanctuary indicated that
there was a separation between
00:50:05.10\00:50:09.97
God and human beings.
00:50:09.97\00:50:11.54
The people live out in the
camp around the sanctuary and
00:50:11.54\00:50:15.41
the courtyard.
00:50:15.41\00:50:16.61
They are represented through
the priest, and at the center
00:50:16.61\00:50:21.88
of the whole thing is the most
holy place, which is described
00:50:21.88\00:50:24.39
in the Old Testament, with its
measurements, 20 cubits by 20
00:50:24.39\00:50:27.56
cubits by 20 cubits.
00:50:27.56\00:50:29.32
It's a perfect cube.
00:50:29.32\00:50:30.53
That place is the only place
in the temple system where the
00:50:30.53\00:50:35.10
visible presence of God dwells.
00:50:35.10\00:50:38.60
That is the Shekinah glory.
00:50:38.60\00:50:40.34
And I think that what this
is saying is that all of the
00:50:40.34\00:50:44.41
separation that sin caused
between human beings and God
00:50:44.41\00:50:49.71
is gonna be completely
elimination and everybody's
00:50:49.71\00:50:53.78
destination is most holy
place level intimacy with God.
00:50:53.78\00:51:00.36
That's what it's saying.
00:51:00.36\00:51:01.69
>>DAVID: When the high priest
would go into the most holy
00:51:01.69\00:51:04.83
place once a year on the,
what is it, 10th day of the 7th
00:51:04.83\00:51:07.76
month, the in Old Testament
dispensation, he had all of
00:51:07.76\00:51:12.40
those gems, he's, he
brought representation of all of
00:51:12.40\00:51:18.31
Israel in.
00:51:18.31\00:51:19.84
Okay, well, that was in
the shadowy sin-filled world.
00:51:19.84\00:51:22.68
In the absence of that
sin-filled shadowy world,
00:51:22.68\00:51:25.41
we'll all be having, and I
think this is your point, a
00:51:25.41\00:51:27.78
most holy place experience.
00:51:27.78\00:51:29.35
>>TY: Yeah, we'll
all be in intimate...
00:51:29.35\00:51:31.22
>>DAVID: And check this out,
that is strongly communicated
00:51:31.22\00:51:34.09
in Revelation 22, verse 4,
and let me just read verse 1 to
00:51:34.09\00:51:38.19
set it up, right through.
00:51:38.19\00:51:41.16
And he showed me a pure
river of water of life, clear as
00:51:41.16\00:51:43.53
crystal, proceeding from the
throne of God and of the Lamb.
00:51:43.53\00:51:46.53
In the middle of its street,
and on either side of the
00:51:46.53\00:51:48.54
river, was the Tree of
Life, which bore 12 fruits, each
00:51:48.54\00:51:51.37
tree yielding its
fruit every month.
00:51:51.37\00:51:53.38
The leaves of the tree
were for the healing of the
00:51:53.38\00:51:55.38
nations.
00:51:55.38\00:51:56.54
And there shall be no more
curse but of the throne of the
00:51:56.54\00:51:58.38
God and of the Lamb shall be
in it, and his servants shall
00:51:58.38\00:52:00.38
serve him, and they shall
see his face, and his name shall
00:52:00.38\00:52:05.59
be on their foreheads.
00:52:05.59\00:52:06.59
That level of intimacy.
00:52:06.59\00:52:08.02
That is an exact return to the
edenic ideal of Genesis 1 and
00:52:08.02\00:52:13.23
2, face to face communion.
00:52:13.23\00:52:16.03
Now, we see through a
glass darkly, Paul said in
00:52:16.03\00:52:18.27
1 Corinthians 13,
but then, face to face.
00:52:18.27\00:52:22.07
So, that is a most
holy place experience.
00:52:22.07\00:52:24.21
>>TY: Yeah, it's incredible.
00:52:24.21\00:52:26.14
Face to face with God,
the God of the universe?
00:52:26.14\00:52:27.98
>>DAVID: Remember when
God said to Moses, no man.
00:52:27.98\00:52:29.61
Oh, God, I wanna
see what you're like.
00:52:29.61\00:52:30.75
Okay, in the cleft of the
rock, put my hand over you,
00:52:30.75\00:52:32.75
only my back parts because
no man can see my face and live.
00:52:32.75\00:52:39.25
>>TY: And yet, here, that's
what we're all destined to.
00:52:39.25\00:52:42.12
>>JEFFREY: New Heaven, new
earth thing, it's not about
00:52:42.12\00:52:43.83
the gold or the
pearls, none of that.
00:52:43.83\00:52:46.93
>>DAVID: That's
pavement and doors.
00:52:46.93\00:52:48.23
>>JEFFREY: The point is,
face to face communion with God.
00:52:48.23\00:52:51.57
By the way, you see
the curse in verse 3?
00:52:51.57\00:52:55.37
There should be no more curse.
00:52:55.37\00:52:58.54
That's Genesis
3 language, right?
00:52:58.54\00:53:00.94
That's the
original gospel promise.
00:53:00.94\00:53:03.31
>>JAMES: And the reason why
the curse came was because of
00:53:03.31\00:53:06.01
the fall and the reason why
the fall came was because of
00:53:06.01\00:53:08.82
this guy right
here, the serpent.
00:53:08.82\00:53:10.65
>>DAVID: Notice, I
turned him upside-down.
00:53:10.65\00:53:11.89
>>JAMES: He was turned
upside-down in Revelation
00:53:11.89\00:53:13.05
chapter 20, but when we get
to Revelation chapter 21 and
00:53:13.05\00:53:16.66
chapter 22, this
guy is off the table.
00:53:16.66\00:53:19.03
[Laughing]
00:53:19.03\00:53:20.33
He's gone.
00:53:20.33\00:53:21.10
>>JEFFREY: He was
waiting to do that.
00:53:21.10\00:53:22.80
>>TY: Did the
cameraman survive that?
00:53:22.80\00:53:25.30
>>JEFFREY: He was waiting
to do that for like an hour.
00:53:25.30\00:53:27.37
>>DAVID: No I agree.
 I love it. I love it.
00:53:27.37\00:53:29.87
>>JAMES: He's absolutely God.
00:53:29.87\00:53:31.47
>>JEFFREY: And all
the kingdoms of the world,
00:53:31.47\00:53:33.61
no, I'm just kidding.
00:53:33.61\00:53:35.08
>>TY: Speaking of the kingdoms
of the world, one final point
00:53:37.21\00:53:41.25
that I think is amazing...
00:53:41.25\00:53:42.75
>>DAVID: I love the
fact you just threw that.
00:53:42.75\00:53:44.25
>>TY: I love it, too.
00:53:44.25\00:53:45.85
I didn't want him on the
table ever to begin with.
00:53:45.85\00:53:48.62
That's great.
00:53:48.62\00:53:49.39
>>JAMES: We had to endure it.
00:53:49.39\00:53:50.99
>>TY: That's right, that's
right, but check this out, you
00:53:50.99\00:53:52.79
guys, this is a point that
just recently occurred to me.
00:53:52.79\00:53:55.26
In chapter 21, verse 20-27,
the Lamb is the light of the
00:53:55.26\00:54:02.04
new heavens and the new earth
and the new Jerusalem, and it
00:54:02.04\00:54:05.11
says in verse 24, and
the nations of those who are
00:54:05.11\00:54:07.84
saved, the nations of those
who are saved shall walk in
00:54:07.84\00:54:10.51
its light, and the kings
of the earth will bring their
00:54:10.51\00:54:13.72
glory and their honor to it.
00:54:13.72\00:54:16.55
Okay, so, nations, so, it's
not now a homogenous society
00:54:16.55\00:54:23.02
where everybody is the same.
00:54:23.02\00:54:25.03
Human culture and art,
everything that makes unique
00:54:25.03\00:54:31.10
people unique, the nations
and their various different ways
00:54:31.10\00:54:36.30
of speaking and being, all
the beautiful stuff is retained
00:54:36.30\00:54:41.34
and the bad stuff is deleted
and everything good about
00:54:41.34\00:54:45.15
human beings and their
individual expressions, it
00:54:45.15\00:54:49.88
says, the bring all
their glory, the glory of the
00:54:49.88\00:54:53.25
nations, and all of their
honor, all the things they've
00:54:53.25\00:54:57.06
developed, and they bring
it and they bring it into this
00:54:57.06\00:55:02.03
new society.
00:55:02.03\00:55:03.13
>>JEFFREY: We'll probably
speak Spanish, though, in
00:55:03.13\00:55:04.33
heaven, right?
00:55:04.33\00:55:05.20
>>TY: Well, some will.
00:55:05.20\00:55:06.30
>>JEFFREY: That'll be the
language of God's kingdom.
00:55:06.30\00:55:09.90
>>TY: But do you see that point?
00:55:09.90\00:55:11.71
>>DAVID: I get your point
and let me just buttress that
00:55:11.71\00:55:13.54
point by saying that whether
you look at the whole world,
00:55:13.54\00:55:17.28
the biological world, it
is obvious, the genetic world,
00:55:17.28\00:55:20.95
that God values variety.
00:55:20.95\00:55:23.42
Clearly, God values variety.
00:55:23.42\00:55:25.32
Somebody just said to me
recently that the incense in
00:55:25.32\00:55:26.86
the sanctuary was combined
with, okay, cinnamon, and
00:55:26.86\00:55:30.09
nutmeg.
00:55:30.09\00:55:30.89
That it makes,
that there's variety.
00:55:30.89\00:55:34.10
You look at birds,
there's 10,000 species of birds.
00:55:34.10\00:55:36.26
You just have all of this
indication that God values
00:55:36.26\00:55:38.90
variety.
00:55:38.90\00:55:39.97
So, why would we think
that when we get to the best
00:55:39.97\00:55:42.10
expression of God's creative
goodness, that homogeneity
00:55:42.10\00:55:45.21
reigns?
00:55:45.21\00:55:46.37
It's like no, all the same
now, no, not gonna be that way.
00:55:46.37\00:55:49.41
>>TY: God is redeeming the
earth, God is redeeming our
00:55:49.41\00:55:51.38
bodies, God is
redeeming culture.
00:55:51.38\00:55:56.02
He's redeeming the human race.
00:55:56.02\00:55:58.52
>>JEFFREY: So, the best
of what every culture has to
00:55:58.52\00:56:01.16
offer is concentrated and
brought in to the new heaven.
00:56:01.16\00:56:04.43
>>JAMES: But it says it twice.
00:56:04.43\00:56:06.13
It says it in verse 24 with
the kings, and then, it says
00:56:06.13\00:56:08.40
it in verse 26 again, it says,
and they shall bring the glory
00:56:08.40\00:56:11.53
and honor of
the nations into it.
00:56:11.53\00:56:13.20
>>TY: And we have 7 seconds left
to say, this was incredible.
00:56:13.20\00:56:17.44
This has been an enjoyable
experience to be in the book
00:56:17.44\00:56:20.34
of Revelation together.
00:56:20.34\00:56:21.34
Amen.
00:56:21.34\00:56:22.21
[Music]
00:56:22.21\00:56:25.28
Amen.
00:56:25.28\00:56:25.55
[Music]
00:56:25.55\00:56:25.58