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>>TY: So far, our journey
through Revelation has really
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been exciting.
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There have been some dark
parts of Revelation that we
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can't help but feel heavy
about, but overall, it's good
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news because light is
triumphing over darkness, good
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is triumphing over evil.
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Right now, we come to
Revelation 18, I think we'll
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get into chapter 19 as well
as chapter 20, and this is where
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the battle between good
and evil is coming to a kind of
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climax and certain aspects
of that battle are brought to
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light that are in greater
detail than what we've seen
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before.
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Revelation chapter 18, in
the first two verses, tells us
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that God, through his
people, is going to do something
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powerful in the world and
that's going to produce an
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outcome that is described
in the remaining verses of
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Revelation.
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>>JAMES: I like the basis
of Revelation 18, at least the
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first 2 verses, because
Revelation 18, verses 1 and 2,
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come at a time, I'm gonna
say verses 1-4, come at a time
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when we've just gone through
this passage of darkness, the
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valley of the shadow of death.
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We've come through the 7 last
plagues, if you will, and it's
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as though God has shown
us where the ultimate end is
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going to be of the two groups,
those who choose for him,
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those who choose against
him, and Revelation 18, it's as
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though God's heart can't quite
give up on the human race yet.
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I'm not leaving
planet earth yet.
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He wants us to know and
see his heart and his heart is
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holding out for his
people who are still in Babylon.
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I think it'd be good for us
to read the first 4 verses and
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just get this
picture of God's heart.
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Revelation 18,
beginning in verse 1.
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And after these things I saw
another angel coming down from
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heaven, having great power,
and the earth was lightened
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with his glory.
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And he cried mightily with a
strong voice, saying, Babylon
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the great is fallen, is
fallen, and has become the
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habitation of devils, the hold
of every foul spirit, the cage
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of every unclean and hateful
bird For all the nations have
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drunk of the wine of the wrath
of her fornication, the kings
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of the earth have committed
fornication with her, and the
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merchants of the earth
are waxed rich through the
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abundance of her delicacies
and I heard another voice from
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heaven saying, come out
of her, my people, and be not
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partakers of her sins that
you receive not of her plagues.
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That's what I'm
talking about right there.
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That's the heart of God.
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God is pleading, this earth
is gonna become the cage, the
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prison house, if you will,
of every unclean and hateful
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bird, of the devil himself.
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We're gonna see that in
Revelation 20 and before that
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happens, before God releases
people to the things they've
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chosen, before his wrath is
poured out and he honors our
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choices against him, before
that happens, he pleading,
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come out of her, my people,
please come out, it's falling,
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it's falling, come out.
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And I love that picture.
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>>DAVID: I love that picture,
can I just ask you a question,
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James, for myself as much
as for maybe our viewers, so,
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Revelation 15 and 16 describes
the outpouring of the plagues,
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17 obviously comes after that,
18 comes after that, so where,
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how is this after?
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How is this...?
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>>TY: You meant after...
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>>DAVID: After the plagues.
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>>JAMES: In time.
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>>TY: Yeah, I don't think so.
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>>DAVID: Okay, so maybe
my question is not clear.
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>>JAMES: No, I get your
question, I think you're
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right.
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It's a good question.
It is a good question.
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How can we have Revelation
18 coming after the plagues have
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already been poured out?
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>>DAVID: Yeah, that's what
I'm asking, I don't know the
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answer.
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>>TY: We don't.
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>>DAVID: So, is there any
textual evidence that this is
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taking place before
the seven last plagues?
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>>TY: I think there is.
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>>DAVID: Okay, well, what is it?
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>>TY: I think that, again,
we're witnessing a repeat and
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a large process here.
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I think you were asking
the question because James, I
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think, said, that in
Revelation 18, we have a
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description of what follows
after the plagues, but I don't
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think he meant chronologically.
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So, the reason I know, the
reason I think there's textual
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evidence that this is not,
seven last plagues, and when
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the seventh one is poured out,
now, Revelation 18 happens, I
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think that it's describing
in the first couple verses the
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final proclamation of the
gospel to the world that earth
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is lightened with God's glory,
which we should go back and
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talk about, and then, as a
result, Babylon begins to fall
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and the remaining parts
of chapter 18 are describing
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what's happening under the 7th
plague, the complete demise of
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Babylon.
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So, it's a big picture flyby,
I think, now, I may be wrong.
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>>JAMES: No,
you're right, that's it.
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>>DAVID: Now, that's
how I've understood it.
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So, I just wanted to be clear.
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>>JAMES: What I meant was,
the way that we're reading the
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book of Revelation, the way
the literary structure is laid
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out, God has just delivered
to us this picture of the seven
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last plagues.
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And without just following
that sequence and going right
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into this detail of the
seven last plagues, he just
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interjects, it's just kinda
like the battle of Armageddon.
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The battle of Armageddon
really doesn't fit in the
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context of the seven last
plagues because there's, it's
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a little interject, if
you will, to remind us to hold
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onto the righteousness
of Christ and his garments.
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It's the same
thing in Revelation 18.
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These first 4 verses are an
interlude, if you will, where
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God is giving us a picture of
his heart in the midst of this
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picture of the 7 last plagues
and the final judgments that
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are coming.
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And he's telling us,
now, listen, it's very, very
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important for you to
understand that I am going to
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plead, I'm going to lighten
the earth with my glory, I'm
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gonna make sure everyone,
the question we asked, I'm gonna
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make sure everyone has an
opportunity to understand, and
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it's not until the earth
is lightened and everyone says
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yes or no to me, but I'm gonna
let these plagues come upon
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the earth.
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>>DAVID: Isn't one of the best
intertextual evidences for the
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timing of it that, back in
Revelation 14, you have the
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three angels' messages and
the second of those messages is
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Babylon is fallen, is fallen?
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Well, that is being described
here in Revelation 17 and
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especially 18, which takes
place before the latter part
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of Revelation 14, which
is the harvest of the earth.
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>>JEFFREY: I was about to
say that because Revelation 14
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ends with the harvest,
that's the end, end, but Babylon
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falls before that.
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>>DAVID: The second angel's
message comes before that.
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>>JEFFREY: Yeah, so,
therefore, chapter 18 has to
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be a flashback to that.
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>>DAVID: It really highlights
just how much of a mess you
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get if you tried, which is I
think, a basic impossibility,
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to read this chronologically.
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>>TY: That's right.
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>>DAVID: You would miss the
cycles, you would miss, you'd
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just miss the recapitulation,
the interludes, and I think
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there's so many of them.
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>>JEFFREY: But we would
be confused if it was even
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written
chronologically, wouldn't we?
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I think there's a reason
why it's big picture, then come
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back, magnifying glass,
big picture, magnifying glass.
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I don't think we'd be
able to even, it would swallow
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everything if it
was just, whoosh.
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>>DAVID: Well, like I
mentioned before, when we go
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through, for example, the 7
churches, that's like from a
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pastoral perspective, when
we go through the seals, that's
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from a larger, historical
perspective, when we go
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through the trumpets, that's
from the military judgment
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perspective.
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It's like you're
telling the same story.
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It's the backpacking,
flying over, walking, you know,
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driving, it's that story.
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And here, in 12, correct me
if I'm wrong, James, 'cause you
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talk sometimes about the
fourth cycle, that really
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starts in Revelation 12, where
we came to the woman again,
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who gave birth to the
child, and now to the end, am I
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right?
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So, Revelation 12 to
22 that is that big cycle.
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So, you have the churches,
seals, trumpets, and then...
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>>JAMES: The woman,
the beast, and the dragon.
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>>DAVID: The woman, the beast,
and the dragon, which is the
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whole basically
second half of Revelation.
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That's really helpful for me.
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>>TY: By which you meant
the woman, the child, and the
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dragon.
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>>DAVID: What did I say?
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>>TY: The woman, the
beast and the dragon.
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>>JAMES: I say beast
because it's got the...
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>>JEFFREY: I think you're
thinking the same thing I was
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thinking, I wanted
to highlight the whole
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illuminated with his glory.
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>>TY: Look at all my fingers.
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>>TY: Look at all my fingers.
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>>JAMES: You ran out of fingers.
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>>TY: I ran out of fingers,
I got a whole bible study here,
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I got all these bullets in
the gun ready to go on the point
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you wanna make, so go.
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>>JEFFREY: But I was already
on Isaiah 60 in my heart.
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Before you.
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>>TY: Well, one of mine
is Isaiah, yeah, I'm there.
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So, you read the text.
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>>JAMES: We're wasting
time, people, let's do it.
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>>JEFFREY: Verse 1, arise,
shine, Isaiah 60, verse 1.
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>>TY: Oh, no, no,
no, don't go there.
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You said Revelation 18, verse
1, so people know what we're
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talking about.
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>>JEFFREY: Oh, you
want me to read that first.
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>>TY: Yeah.
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>>JEFFREY: I
just wanna go there.
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>>DAVID: He wants you
to throw the pass to him.
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Throw him the pass.
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>>JEFFREY: Read
that and then I'll read.
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Alright, fine, I'll set you up.
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I'll be a servant.
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Revelation 18, verse 1.
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After these things I saw
another angel coming down from
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heaven, having great
authority, and the earth was
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illuminated with his glory.
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Ty, what does that mean, Ty?
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>>TY: [Laughter]
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Jeffrey, the reason why I
didn't want you to go right to
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Isaiah, the Isaiah passage yet
is because I wanted to make a
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point.
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>>JEFFREY: Do it.
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>>TY: And the point is that
Revelation 18:1 says the earth
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is illuminated with his
glory, but if you go straight to
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Isaiah, you miss the point
of defining what glory is in
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scripture.
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If you go back to,
I can't even do this.
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If you go back to,
I can't even do this.
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If you go back to Exodus 33.
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If you go back to Exodus 33.
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If you go back to Exodus 33,
there's something interesting
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here.
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Moses makes a request of
the Lord, he says, show me your
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glory, please show me your
glory in Exodus 33 and verse 18.
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Then, God answers and says
to Moses, in the affirmative,
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yeah, I'll do it, I'll show
you my glory, and here's what
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it's like, I will make all my
goodness pass before you and I
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will proclaim the name
of the Lord before you.
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I will be gracious to whom
I will be gracious and have
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compassion upon whom I
will have compassion, you see.
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So...
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>>JEFFREY:
Describing what he's like.
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>>TY: So, then, then...
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>>JEFFREY: But wait, wait,
don't leave yet, 'cause when
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he comes down from the
mountain, his face is shining,
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isn't it?
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>>TY: Yeah, that's right.
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>>DAVID: He's illuminating.
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>>JEFFREY: Yeah.
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It's a perfect parallel.
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>>TY: We've said over and
over again that Revelation is
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always quoting
from the Old Testament.
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Here's the first time it
occurs in the Old Testament
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scriptures, Numbers 14:21.
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>>DAVID: The
first time what occurs?
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>>TY: The first time where
it occurs where Revelation 18:1
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is quoting from this passage,
chapter 14 of Numbers, verse
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21, but truly, as I live, all
the earth will be filled with
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the glory of the Lord.
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So, this is the first
promise from the first biblical
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prophet.
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This is Moses is the one
who initiates this idea, God
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please show me your glory.
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God says, I'll show you my
glory, it's my character, it's
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my goodness, and then
God tells Moses, Moses, I'm
00:11:13.44\00:11:17.41
telling you what's
coming down in human history.
00:11:17.41\00:11:19.94
What's going to happen
eventually is the earth will
00:11:19.94\00:11:23.24
be filled with
the glory of the Lord.
00:11:23.24\00:11:27.45
Then, that same exact
prophecy language is used by the
00:11:27.45\00:11:32.82
prophet Isaiah.
00:11:32.82\00:11:33.82
Take us there.
00:11:33.82\00:11:35.06
>>JEFFREY: Isaiah 60, verse 1,
arise and shine for your light
00:11:35.06\00:11:39.13
has come and the glory of
the Lord is risen upon you.
00:11:39.13\00:11:43.97
For behold, the darkness
shall cover the earth, in deep
00:11:43.97\00:11:47.90
darkness, the people, but
the Lord will arise over you and
00:11:47.90\00:11:51.94
his glory will be seen upon you.
00:11:51.94\00:11:54.44
The Gentiles will come to
your light and kings to the
00:11:54.44\00:11:57.58
brightness of your rising.
00:11:57.58\00:11:59.25
>>TY: That's a powerful passage.
00:11:59.25\00:12:01.25
That's expanding what Numbers
14 said that when the earth is
00:12:01.25\00:12:05.69
filled with God's glory,
it will attract kings and
00:12:05.69\00:12:10.63
unbelievers to the
brightness of your rising.
00:12:10.63\00:12:12.66
God's people are proclaiming
a message and that passage in
00:12:12.66\00:12:16.73
Isaiah and the one in Numbers,
first and foremost, they're
00:12:16.73\00:12:21.04
talking about Jesus.
00:12:21.04\00:12:22.84
These are all
Messianic prophecies.
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.84
Jesus is the one in whom
the glory of God was perfectly
00:12:24.84\00:12:28.91
manifested.
00:12:28.91\00:12:30.05
That's very
clear John chapter 12.
00:12:30.05\00:12:32.51
Ezekiel chapter 43, same
promise, and behold, the glory
00:12:32.51\00:12:37.99
of the Lord of the God of
Israel came from the way of
00:12:37.99\00:12:40.46
the east and his voice was
like the sound of many waters
00:12:40.46\00:12:44.06
and the earth
shone with his glory.
00:12:44.06\00:12:48.13
Same exact language again,
and then Habakkuk 2:14, for the
00:12:48.13\00:12:51.63
earth will be filled with
the knowledge, now the word
00:12:51.63\00:12:55.84
knowledge is asked of
the glory of the Lord as the
00:12:55.84\00:12:57.94
waters cover the sea.
00:12:57.94\00:13:00.11
So, all of these passages
are using the same language as
00:13:00.11\00:13:03.55
Revelation 18:1, earth filled
with the glory of the Lord.
00:13:03.55\00:13:07.72
>>JEFFREY: A
certain knowledge of God.
00:13:07.72\00:13:09.78
>>TY: A certain knowledge
of God is going to be disclosed
00:13:09.78\00:13:12.79
in human history and all of
these passages say that it's
00:13:12.79\00:13:15.46
going to be global, it's going
to be viral, it's going to be
00:13:15.46\00:13:18.73
something that the whole world
is talking about and trying to
00:13:18.73\00:13:23.03
understand.
00:13:23.03\00:13:24.07
God will be exalted in
some kind of revelation.
00:13:24.07\00:13:29.40
>>DAVID: What was
the Ezekiel passage?
00:13:29.40\00:13:31.41
>>TY: 43, verses 1 and 2.
00:13:31.41\00:13:32.61
>>JEFFREY: And in that Isaiah
passage we read, it doesn't
00:13:32.61\00:13:34.41
just say that darkness covers
the earth, it says darkness is
00:13:34.41\00:13:36.75
deep in the people, gross
darkness, deep darkness, the
00:13:36.75\00:13:40.75
people, and we've been
alluding to that, that dark...
00:13:40.75\00:13:43.28
>>TY: And it's not the kind of
darkness that you get when you
00:13:43.28\00:13:45.29
turn the lights off or the sun
goes down, it's talking about
00:13:45.29\00:13:48.62
darkness of mind,
darkness of heart.
00:13:48.62\00:13:51.86
>>JEFFREY: Spiritual darkness.
00:13:51.86\00:13:53.06
>>TY: Theological darkness,
even, it's perspectives on the
00:13:53.06\00:13:56.70
character of God that are dark
that lead people to turn away
00:13:56.70\00:14:02.40
from God on the basis of
false information about God.
00:14:02.40\00:14:07.84
But even, this is Paul, in
2 Corinthians chapter 4, but
00:14:07.84\00:14:11.55
even if our gospel is veiled,
it is veiled to those who are
00:14:11.55\00:14:15.18
perishing, whose minds the
god of this age has blinded, who
00:14:15.18\00:14:22.66
do not believe, lest the light
of the gospel of the glory of
00:14:22.66\00:14:26.76
Christ, who is the image
of God, should shine on them.
00:14:26.76\00:14:30.50
>>JEFFREY: So, that's
describing the state of
00:14:30.50\00:14:32.50
darkness.
00:14:32.50\00:14:33.50
>>TY: That's the darkness.
00:14:33.50\00:14:34.44
>>JEFFREY: Lack of
the knowledge of Christ.
00:14:34.44\00:14:36.50
>>TY: So, when we come
to Revelation 18, this is
00:14:36.50\00:14:40.11
describing a global illumination
project of some kind.
00:14:40.11\00:14:45.28
There's going to be a
proclamation of the gospel
00:14:45.28\00:14:47.28
that's gonna
fill the whole world.
00:14:47.28\00:14:49.28
>>JAMES: I hate to put this
stick in the mud, and I don't
00:14:49.28\00:14:52.75
mean I hate to do it because
I think it's really interesting,
00:14:52.75\00:14:54.86
it's amazing to me that
part of the glory of God that's
00:14:54.86\00:14:59.26
revealed in Exodus chapter
34, I just wanna read the verses
00:14:59.26\00:15:02.30
here because the Lord comes
and he reveals to Moses his
00:15:02.30\00:15:06.30
glory, and when he actually
reveals to Moses his glory, it
00:15:06.30\00:15:08.30
says, the Lord passed by
before him and proclaimed the
00:15:08.30\00:15:11.64
Lord, the Lord God
merciful and gracious.
00:15:11.64\00:15:14.81
This is when he's
revealing the glory.
00:15:14.81\00:15:16.81
He's actually
showing him his glory.
00:15:16.81\00:15:18.81
Merciful, gracious, abundant
in goodness and truth, keeping
00:15:18.81\00:15:21.35
mercy for thousands, forgiving
iniquity in transgression and
00:15:21.35\00:15:23.85
sin, and that will, by
no means, clear the guilty.
00:15:23.85\00:15:27.49
Visiting the iniquity of the
fathers upon the children, and
00:15:27.49\00:15:29.92
upon the children's children
under the third and fourth
00:15:29.92\00:15:32.56
generation.
00:15:32.56\00:15:33.73
Now, I think what's really
interesting here because it's
00:15:33.73\00:15:35.66
the same in Numbers, Numbers
God forgives, and he says, but
00:15:35.66\00:15:41.34
the earth will be
enlightened with my glory.
00:15:41.34\00:15:43.34
I'm gonna forgive these rebels
now, but the earth will be
00:15:43.34\00:15:45.34
lightened with my glory.
00:15:45.34\00:15:46.57
And the point here in
Revelation is, it's really
00:15:46.57\00:15:48.58
interesting, I thought that
the revelation of the glory of
00:15:48.58\00:15:52.71
God was one event and then you
have this judgement coming and
00:15:52.71\00:15:57.89
that's another
event in Revelation 18.
00:15:57.89\00:16:00.59
But the context of Revelation 18
is it's revealed in Exodus 34.
00:16:00.59\00:16:04.99
Define Exodus 34 is
the lightening of the earth
00:16:04.99\00:16:07.60
with glory of God is
also a revelation of justice.
00:16:07.60\00:16:13.34
In other words, part of the
glory is that he's calling his
00:16:13.34\00:16:17.01
people out to the gospel and
the other part of the glory is
00:16:17.01\00:16:20.11
he's finally visiting justice
on Babylon, and what's really
00:16:20.11\00:16:24.01
interesting because it's
in this context, you read all
00:16:24.01\00:16:27.22
these verses and that
emergence of the earth and the
00:16:27.22\00:16:29.98
kings and they wail and they
weep and they're struggling,
00:16:29.98\00:16:32.75
and they're just like, ah,
this is terrible, Babylon's
00:16:32.75\00:16:34.76
falling.
00:16:34.76\00:16:35.96
But then, you come to the very
lasts part here, and it says
00:16:35.96\00:16:37.76
here in Revelation chapter 18,
it says, and I'm looking here
00:16:37.76\00:16:42.50
at verse 20, just to get
the context, verse 19 says, they
00:16:42.50\00:16:47.14
cast dust on their heads and
they cry, weeping and wailing,
00:16:47.14\00:16:49.57
alas, alas, that great city
wherein we've been made rich
00:16:49.57\00:16:52.34
and the ships and by the
reason of acutance, one hour
00:16:52.34\00:16:55.68
she's made desolate.
00:16:55.68\00:16:56.85
And then, verse 20, rejoice
over her, thou heaven and ye
00:16:56.85\00:17:00.18
holy prophets, for God
has avenged you on her.
00:17:00.18\00:17:03.02
Whoa.
00:17:03.02\00:17:05.19
There's an aspect to God's
glory that causes heaven and
00:17:05.19\00:17:08.69
earth to rejoice.
00:17:08.69\00:17:09.86
There's an aspect of God's
glory, of his character, that
00:17:09.86\00:17:14.73
is there, that is right, and
this is the struggle because,
00:17:14.73\00:17:20.80
we talked about this early,
but I think if God, God is
00:17:20.80\00:17:24.14
coming to a place in history
where he's gonna manifest his
00:17:24.14\00:17:26.44
glory and everyone's gonna
be able to say, every knee's
00:17:26.44\00:17:28.44
gonna bow and everyone's gonna
be able to say, yeah, it is
00:17:28.44\00:17:31.11
right that he does this.
00:17:31.11\00:17:33.55
Even the lost would
say, yeah, this is right.
00:17:33.55\00:17:36.18
This revelation of God's glory
hasn't taken place yet because
00:17:36.18\00:17:39.15
God cannot fully manifest
his glory without there being a
00:17:39.15\00:17:42.06
question about his character.
00:17:42.06\00:17:43.86
But a day is coming when
God's gonna be able to fully
00:17:43.86\00:17:45.96
manifest his glory, even in
that sense of that glory that
00:17:45.96\00:17:49.20
consumes sin and everyone's
gonna say, this is a good
00:17:49.20\00:17:51.30
thing, this is a right thing.
00:17:51.30\00:17:52.83
Does that make sense?
00:17:52.83\00:17:53.84
>>TY: Totally.
00:17:53.84\00:17:55.00
I think that we, in a previous
session, I can't remember
00:17:55.00\00:17:59.07
which one, we pointed
out that one of the themes in
00:17:59.07\00:18:02.68
Revelation is that human
beings are crying out for
00:18:02.68\00:18:06.38
justice, wrongs have been
committed down through human
00:18:06.38\00:18:10.15
history.
00:18:10.15\00:18:11.32
The exact context of that
passage is martyrdom, but it's
00:18:11.32\00:18:15.12
bigger than that, there's all
kinds of horrors taking place.
00:18:15.12\00:18:19.69
This world is a big nightmare,
there are so many horrible
00:18:19.69\00:18:23.73
things going on.
00:18:23.73\00:18:24.90
>>JAMES: The souls of the
slaves of men is described in
00:18:24.90\00:18:26.94
these verses.
00:18:26.94\00:18:28.10
>>TY: Yeah, so you have
bad things happening in history
00:18:28.10\00:18:30.17
and of course, people are
crying out for justice and so,
00:18:30.17\00:18:35.24
part of the resolve of the
war between good and evil has to
00:18:35.24\00:18:41.52
be that justice is a
part of the good news.
00:18:41.52\00:18:44.65
It's not contrary to the good
news, it's not different than
00:18:44.65\00:18:47.39
the gospel, part of the
gospel is that there will be a
00:18:47.39\00:18:51.23
complete end to
people hurting people.
00:18:51.23\00:18:54.56
That's the bottom line, people
are crossing lines all the
00:18:54.56\00:18:57.77
time.
00:18:57.77\00:19:01.04
So, when the people are
rejoicing in verse 20 of
00:19:01.04\00:19:03.87
Revelation 18:20, when heaven
and earth are rejoicing at the
00:19:03.87\00:19:09.84
demise of Babylon, it's
not a sadistic rejoicing.
00:19:09.84\00:19:14.85
>>JEFFREY: It's a sigh
of relief, judgment has made
00:19:14.85\00:19:17.15
things right.
00:19:17.15\00:19:18.49
>>TY: Evil is now coming to
an end and all the violations
00:19:18.49\00:19:23.69
that have defined human
history are now winding down
00:19:23.69\00:19:28.56
and righteousness and goodness
and love is going to prevail
00:19:28.56\00:19:31.03
and what's not to be
happy about that taking place?
00:19:31.03\00:19:35.57
So, yeah, I think that's a
part of the good news, it's a
00:19:35.57\00:19:38.17
part of the gospel.
00:19:38.17\00:19:39.41
Our time is up for this first
segment, so we have to take a
00:19:39.41\00:19:41.68
break, but let's come back
and continue this discussion.
00:19:41.68\00:19:45.45
[Music]
00:19:45.45\00:19:57.56
>>The bible is a big book.
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00:19:59.49\00:20:04.23
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00:20:04.23\00:20:05.93
It's easy to get bogged
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00:20:05.93\00:20:09.37
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00:20:09.37\00:20:12.61
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00:20:12.61\00:20:14.61
And yet, the bible is full
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00:20:14.61\00:20:18.98
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[Music]
00:21:41.33\00:21:47.70
>>TY: So, in that previous
session, I think we said a lot
00:21:47.70\00:21:50.04
really fast, at least for me,
it went by really fast and it
00:21:50.04\00:21:54.51
would be good if we just,
if we back up and make sure we
00:21:54.51\00:21:57.48
understand what we just said.
00:21:57.48\00:21:59.18
[Laughter]
00:21:59.18\00:22:02.35
So, we're essentially saying
that, in Revelation 18, there
00:22:02.35\00:22:06.99
will be a final, global
revelation of God's character
00:22:06.99\00:22:11.49
over against the false
conceptions of God's character
00:22:11.49\00:22:15.20
that have been popularized
through religion and the
00:22:15.20\00:22:18.03
world.
00:22:18.03\00:22:19.20
And that revelation of God's
true character will produce
00:22:19.20\00:22:24.77
the fall of Babylon.
00:22:24.77\00:22:26.94
One of the things that is
remarkable in the passage is
00:22:26.94\00:22:31.05
this language in verse 2,
Babylon the great is fallen,
00:22:31.05\00:22:35.35
is fallen, and has become
the dwelling place of demons and
00:22:35.35\00:22:40.56
the prison of every foul
spirit and the cage of every
00:22:40.56\00:22:44.43
unclean and hateful bird.
00:22:44.43\00:22:46.80
And this is interesting,
in verse 4, come out of her my
00:22:46.80\00:22:50.03
people, that's the
language I wanted to focus on.
00:22:50.03\00:22:52.53
>>JEFFREY: I think, I think
that, that could be the key
00:22:52.53\00:22:56.40
text in that whole chapter,
because Babylon is fallen, and
00:22:56.40\00:23:01.81
there's all this judgment,
all this serious, heavy language
00:23:01.81\00:23:04.85
on Babylon, and yet, it says,
come out of her, my people,
00:23:04.85\00:23:07.42
God speaking, and so the fact
is that there are still God's
00:23:07.42\00:23:12.55
people that are in Babylon.
00:23:12.55\00:23:15.12
>>TY: Which is to
say that they're in what?
00:23:15.12\00:23:17.13
They're in every different
philosophy, religion, nation,
00:23:17.13\00:23:20.13
country, culture.
00:23:20.13\00:23:21.20
>>JEFFREY: They're in
precisely the situations where
00:23:21.20\00:23:25.80
we would have the tendency
as believers to say, oh, those
00:23:25.80\00:23:28.50
are not God's people.
00:23:28.50\00:23:29.64
>>TY: So, we
shouldn't generalize.
00:23:29.64\00:23:31.64
>>JEFFREY: This text is
disorienting in my view,
00:23:31.64\00:23:34.18
because it's, in a good
way, it's telling us, God's
00:23:34.18\00:23:38.38
perspective is not the
same as our perspective.
00:23:38.38\00:23:40.82
So, God is broad minded, big
hearted, there are people that
00:23:40.82\00:23:44.55
may not be, to our eyes and
to our perspective, people of
00:23:44.55\00:23:49.92
God, and yet, the text is
telling us that God still has
00:23:49.92\00:23:54.13
his people in Babylon, and
the reason I think this is heavy
00:23:54.13\00:23:58.63
is because this is John
speaking and John hung out
00:23:58.63\00:24:02.24
with Jesus, sat and listened
to Jesus, when you read the
00:24:02.24\00:24:06.01
type of stuff that Jesus said,
you remember, in John 10:16,
00:24:06.01\00:24:10.55
where Jesus says, I have
other sheep that are not of this
00:24:10.55\00:24:13.75
fold, but they also must come
because there's one shepherd
00:24:13.75\00:24:17.69
and one fold.
00:24:17.69\00:24:18.95
So, it was part of
Jesus's theological framework.
00:24:18.95\00:24:22.99
>>DAVID: His MO.
00:24:22.99\00:24:24.16
>>JEFFREY: To understand
that people were not presently
00:24:24.16\00:24:27.23
identified with him in a
way that us human beings can
00:24:27.23\00:24:32.27
recognized, have not escaped
his attention, his notice.
00:24:32.27\00:24:38.51
>>TY: It just reveals
the large heartedness of God.
00:24:38.51\00:24:41.54
>>DAVID: I know, Jeffrey,
that you're gonna give us some
00:24:41.54\00:24:43.91
backstory here on the, but
let me just say something before
00:24:43.91\00:24:47.15
you do that.
00:24:47.15\00:24:48.55
Something that just dawned
on me and I guess I knew this
00:24:48.55\00:24:50.69
before, but it was really
helpful when you said, you
00:24:50.69\00:24:53.32
know, we have this
enlightenment project, this
00:24:53.32\00:24:56.39
global enlightenment project,
as Ty called it, in verse 1,
00:24:56.39\00:24:59.49
that then precipitates the
demise of the fall of Babylon
00:24:59.49\00:25:03.03
in verse 2, Babylon
is fallen, is fallen.
00:25:03.03\00:25:05.03
That's the very thing that
we saw back in Revelation 14,
00:25:05.03\00:25:07.10
where the first angel has
the everlasting gospel, as a
00:25:07.10\00:25:10.64
consequence then, the second
angel says, Babylon is fallen,
00:25:10.64\00:25:14.84
is fallen.
00:25:14.84\00:25:16.01
So, we see that it might've
seemed a little tenuous back
00:25:16.01\00:25:18.38
when we were in Revelation 14,
it said, hey, look, here's the
00:25:18.38\00:25:21.35
everlasting gospel, the first
angel's message, and look, as
00:25:21.35\00:25:23.39
a consequence of that, this
is what happens, but the fact
00:25:23.39\00:25:26.69
that that is the point
that John is making is further
00:25:26.69\00:25:29.09
elucidated here, when you
have, the earth is illuminated
00:25:29.09\00:25:31.59
with the glory of God, the
goodness of God, the character
00:25:31.59\00:25:34.20
of God, and the very next
thing that he says is, is that
00:25:34.20\00:25:36.90
the support for
Babylon dries up.
00:25:36.90\00:25:39.70
And I think it happens on
two fronts, and I think this is
00:25:39.70\00:25:41.87
where you're gonna go,
Jeffrey, one is, is that lots
00:25:41.87\00:25:44.77
of people who were formerly
perceived as loyal to Babylon
00:25:44.77\00:25:48.11
or Babylonian come out.
00:25:48.11\00:25:50.88
They're like, no, no, no,
we're done with this, we're
00:25:50.88\00:25:52.88
going here.
00:25:52.88\00:25:53.98
And then the other is
that those who are in Babylon,
00:25:53.98\00:25:55.88
which this takes place at the
end of Revelation, well, it's
00:25:55.88\00:25:57.89
actually Revelation 17 and
18, those that were Babylonian
00:25:57.89\00:26:00.66
loyalists eventually turn
and say, hey, you cannot deliver
00:26:00.66\00:26:05.86
on what you said you
could, so all support is gone.
00:26:05.86\00:26:08.93
The faithful, the residual
faithful have come out and
00:26:08.93\00:26:12.17
those that remain loyal in
short order turn on Babylon
00:26:12.17\00:26:15.37
and the bible says they eat
her flesh, which sounds like
00:26:15.37\00:26:19.11
Jezebel Old Testament.
00:26:19.11\00:26:20.41
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they
burn her with fire, it's just
00:26:20.41\00:26:25.21
this, like, it's pretty heavy.
00:26:25.21\00:26:27.48
>>TY: It sounds like the whole
world is imploding around the
00:26:27.48\00:26:30.79
ears of the Babylonian system.
00:26:30.79\00:26:32.65
It's all coming down.
00:26:32.65\00:26:34.09
This system has been
built up and built up on false
00:26:34.09\00:26:36.79
principles and false
principles of self-serving
00:26:36.79\00:26:40.16
greed, slavery, as James
pointed out, false principles
00:26:40.16\00:26:44.03
are not sustainable,
they eventually implode on
00:26:44.03\00:26:48.14
themselves like we saw kind of
a taste of it in the 2008 near
00:26:48.14\00:26:54.61
financial crash of the whole
world because of the greed of
00:26:54.61\00:26:57.91
like 20 or 30 guys at
the top of the system.
00:26:57.91\00:27:01.78
Greed is not sustainable, it
eventually, and that's just an
00:27:01.78\00:27:05.45
example.
00:27:05.45\00:27:06.39
There is no form of
selfishness that doesn't
00:27:06.39\00:27:08.96
eventually come crashing
down around the people who are
00:27:08.96\00:27:12.96
participating in it.
00:27:12.96\00:27:14.23
>>JEFFREY: We've been talking
about the whole backfiring
00:27:14.23\00:27:17.17
effect of evil.
00:27:17.17\00:27:18.33
It backfires on Satan, you
mentioned several passages in
00:27:18.33\00:27:22.00
scripture where it backfired,
Daniel in the lion's den, the
00:27:22.00\00:27:25.94
three Hebrews in the fire
in the third chapter of Daniel.
00:27:25.94\00:27:28.41
It backfires on them and
I think that's what's being
00:27:28.41\00:27:31.58
described in chapter 17 and
18 of Babylon, it backfires on
00:27:31.58\00:27:35.42
Babylon.
00:27:35.42\00:27:36.58
>>DAVID: And one of the things
that we've said before and
00:27:36.58\00:27:38.42
it's there, it's very
clear, a woman is a church or a
00:27:38.42\00:27:41.52
supposed church, the fact that
there is a presumed priestly
00:27:41.52\00:27:46.80
or mediatoral role here that
the woman is seeking to occupy
00:27:46.80\00:27:49.93
is really textual, and I wanna
just give two very quick ones
00:27:49.93\00:27:52.87
here.
00:27:52.87\00:27:54.00
In other words, Ty, you
said earlier, and I love this,
00:27:54.00\00:27:55.87
like, if a nation does
something bad, it does it in
00:27:55.87\00:27:57.87
its own name, but if a
church does something bad, if a
00:27:57.87\00:28:00.71
religion does something bad
in the name of God, well then
00:28:00.71\00:28:03.08
that redacts, or
reflects, rather, back on God.
00:28:03.08\00:28:06.21
And so, a lot of people
are like, whoa, this is not the
00:28:06.21\00:28:10.25
way God is.
00:28:10.25\00:28:11.45
They're either both, I think
both the loyalists in Babylon
00:28:11.45\00:28:14.56
that remain and those that
defect and come out will have
00:28:14.56\00:28:17.26
the perception, what
you said is not true.
00:28:17.26\00:28:19.73
And the fact that she occupies
this mediatoral, priestly
00:28:19.73\00:28:23.67
role, is visible in
two passages that I'll just
00:28:23.67\00:28:26.27
mention.
00:28:26.27\00:28:27.50
The woman is depicted
in Revelation 17 as being
00:28:27.50\00:28:29.67
arraying in purple
and scarlet and gold.
00:28:29.67\00:28:32.51
When you go back and you look
at the colors that the priest
00:28:32.51\00:28:34.94
wore, the high priest, in
Israel's sanctuary system, in
00:28:34.94\00:28:40.52
Exodus 28, purple,
gold, scarlet, and blue.
00:28:40.52\00:28:43.99
And the blue is missing
and there's significance there
00:28:43.99\00:28:46.39
that we don't have full
time to develop, but it was a
00:28:46.39\00:28:48.92
recognition of the law of
God and of the 10 commandments.
00:28:48.92\00:28:52.59
So, there's that element,
but then there's this other
00:28:52.59\00:28:54.96
element that when they turn
on her, they burn her with fire,
00:28:54.96\00:28:58.80
it says in verse
16 of Revelation 17.
00:28:58.80\00:29:01.77
And there was only one
punishment in the Mosaic
00:29:01.77\00:29:03.77
system in which somebody
was burned with fire as a
00:29:03.77\00:29:07.18
terminal, capital punishment,
and that was when the daughter
00:29:07.18\00:29:10.15
of a priest became a harlot.
00:29:10.15\00:29:12.31
>>TY: And that's
what's being referred to.
00:29:12.31\00:29:15.52
>>DAVID: In other words,
here's yet two other examples
00:29:15.52\00:29:18.59
of how all of this makes sense
within the context of the Old
00:29:18.59\00:29:21.52
Testament foundation
upon which it's built.
00:29:21.52\00:29:23.93
Now, here's why
I'm going with that.
00:29:23.93\00:29:25.93
I've already said it, but
I'll just bring it together.
00:29:25.93\00:29:28.20
People in Babylon, some
are gonna be like, no, we're
00:29:28.20\00:29:30.37
sticking to our guns,
we're sticking with this system,
00:29:30.37\00:29:32.40
even though it's beginning
to crumble, and others are gonna
00:29:32.40\00:29:35.77
say, hey, we're
out, we're out of here.
00:29:35.77\00:29:38.67
And in verse short order, the
support for Babylon dries up,
00:29:38.67\00:29:41.44
either by defection or by a
realization, hey, that whole
00:29:41.44\00:29:45.15
you and God thing,
that's not working out.
00:29:45.15\00:29:47.28
>>TY: No, that's right.
00:29:47.28\00:29:49.05
So, I think that's a long
preamble by way of saying that
00:29:49.05\00:29:52.15
you're gonna talk about...
00:29:52.15\00:29:53.25
>>JEFFREY: Just the fact
that this is mystic Babylon
00:29:53.25\00:29:58.09
falling, but mystic Babylon,
symbolic Babylon is based on
00:29:58.09\00:30:02.06
the literal
Babylon, the Old Testament.
00:30:02.06\00:30:05.17
And so, this idea of Babylon
falling takes our minds back
00:30:05.17\00:30:09.70
to the Babylonian
empire and how it fell.
00:30:09.70\00:30:12.91
And the scenario surrounding
the actual, literal Babylon is
00:30:12.91\00:30:18.21
super suggestive for
what's happening here.
00:30:18.21\00:30:20.32
You alluded to verse
20, rejoice, rejoice because
00:30:20.32\00:30:24.69
Babylon is falling, right?
00:30:24.69\00:30:26.05
So, there's a sense in which
God's people are associating
00:30:26.05\00:30:30.86
the fall of Babylon
with their deliverance.
00:30:30.86\00:30:32.99
It's one of the same thing.
00:30:32.99\00:30:34.30
It's one coin with two sides.
00:30:34.30\00:30:36.46
So, I just wanted to
read briefly, I think this is
00:30:36.46\00:30:38.47
powerful.
00:30:38.47\00:30:39.70
Babylon is falling and there's
rejoicing by God's people, as
00:30:39.70\00:30:43.34
they're evacuating the
building, it's coming down,
00:30:43.34\00:30:46.17
right?
00:30:46.17\00:30:47.38
In Isaiah chapter 44 and 45,
Jeremiah does the same, these
00:30:47.38\00:30:52.51
are the predictions that
originally foretold the fall
00:30:52.51\00:30:56.42
of literal Babylon.
00:30:56.42\00:30:58.02
So, the year, what, 539
BC, correct me if I'm wrong.
00:30:58.02\00:31:01.79
So, the year, what, 539
BC, correct me if I'm wrong.
00:31:01.79\00:31:02.99
Babylon, right, on the
Belshazzar, this is now Daniel
00:31:02.99\00:31:06.53
5 tells a story, but we're
just narrating that in 539 BC,
00:31:06.53\00:31:11.00
Cyrus and the Persians
were surrounding the Babylonian
00:31:11.00\00:31:15.04
empire and the Babylonians
were inside, the gates were
00:31:15.04\00:31:19.04
closed, the walls were thick,
they had plenty provisions to
00:31:19.04\00:31:22.68
last, one historian says, 20
years, without having to exit
00:31:22.68\00:31:26.92
the walls.
00:31:26.92\00:31:28.98
>>DAVID: That's
gonna be a long siege.
00:31:28.98\00:31:30.22
>>JEFFREY: Yeah,
that's a long siege.
00:31:30.22\00:31:31.39
Anyway, long story short,
Cyrus decides to take some of
00:31:31.39\00:31:33.22
his troops upstream, the
Euphrates River flows through
00:31:33.22\00:31:37.43
the Babylonian gates and
through the empire and through
00:31:37.43\00:31:40.06
the city and they divert
the river in order for the
00:31:40.06\00:31:43.67
soldiers to be able to
duck under the gates and wade,
00:31:43.67\00:31:47.74
waist high into
Babylon and conquer.
00:31:47.74\00:31:51.67
They conquer the kingdom.
00:31:51.67\00:31:53.38
Anyways, this is where
we pick up in Isaiah 44.
00:31:53.38\00:31:56.18
I'm just gonna read, bear with
me, I'm just gonna read, 44,
00:31:56.18\00:31:59.75
beginning in verse 24.
00:31:59.75\00:32:02.08
And this is my point, as we
read, Cyrus takes on Messianic
00:32:02.08\00:32:06.02
significance,
he's the Messiah here.
00:32:06.02\00:32:08.76
>>DAVID: 44:24?
00:32:08.76\00:32:09.92
>>JEFFREY: 44:24.
00:32:09.92\00:32:11.43
Thus says the Lord, your
Redeemer, and He who formed
00:32:11.43\00:32:13.76
you from the womb, I am
the Lord, who makes all things,
00:32:13.76\00:32:17.23
who stretches out the heavens
all alone, who spreads abroad
00:32:17.23\00:32:20.84
the earth by Myself, and
frustrates the signs of the
00:32:20.84\00:32:24.14
babblers, and drives
diviners mad, who turns wise men
00:32:24.14\00:32:28.51
backward, verse 26, who
confirms the word of His
00:32:28.51\00:32:31.58
servant, who says to
Jerusalem, skipping down, you
00:32:31.58\00:32:35.55
shall be inhabited, to the
cities of Judah, you shall be
00:32:35.55\00:32:38.79
built, and I will
raise up her waste places.
00:32:38.79\00:32:42.49
Who is Judah in Jerusalem?
00:32:42.49\00:32:45.23
They're captive in Babylon.
00:32:45.23\00:32:48.06
Verse 27, who says
to the deep, be dry!
00:32:48.06\00:32:50.43
I will dry up your rivers.
00:32:50.43\00:32:51.93
Verse 28, who says of Cyrus,
he is my, and that word there,
00:32:51.93\00:32:57.61
shepherd, that's
a Messianic term.
00:32:57.61\00:32:59.61
And he shall perform all my
pleasure, saying to Jerusalem,
00:32:59.61\00:33:02.98
you shall be built, saying
to the temple, your foundation
00:33:02.98\00:33:06.21
shall be laid.
00:33:06.21\00:33:07.38
Chapter 45, verse 1, thus
says the Lord to His anointed,
00:33:07.38\00:33:11.85
Cyrus, so, shepherd, anointed,
it's the same language, I
00:33:11.85\00:33:16.56
won't keep reading, but the
short end is, in chapter 45,
00:33:16.56\00:33:20.40
as Cyrus storms into Babylon
and conquers Babylon, Babylon
00:33:20.40\00:33:25.70
falls, and when that happens,
Cyrus then allows the Jews,
00:33:25.70\00:33:30.54
Cyrus and the Persians
allow the Jews to return back to
00:33:30.54\00:33:35.54
Jerusalem and to rebuild
their city and their temple.
00:33:35.54\00:33:39.08
The people of God experience
deliverance as Babylon falls.
00:33:39.08\00:33:44.12
And so, that's the
literal setting that you get to
00:33:44.12\00:33:47.49
chapter 18 and now, mystic,
symbolic Babylon is falling,
00:33:47.49\00:33:51.53
and the people of God,
spiritually speaking, are
00:33:51.53\00:33:54.13
evacuating, and
they're being delivered.
00:33:54.13\00:33:57.23
>>TY: And then
what, in Revelation?
00:33:57.23\00:33:59.23
>>JEFFREY: By a
Messianic figure.
00:33:59.23\00:34:01.24
>>DAVID: Oh, by the Messiah.
00:34:01.24\00:34:02.24
>>JEFFREY: By
the Messiah, take us.
00:34:02.24\00:34:04.24
>>TY: And then, in Revelation,
what follows in chapter 21 and
00:34:04.24\00:34:07.11
22 is they return to
Jerusalem, just like it says
00:34:07.11\00:34:10.81
here, this is all fulfilled,
Jerusalem is established, the
00:34:10.81\00:34:14.15
people are delivered and
they inhabit Jerusalem for
00:34:14.15\00:34:16.82
eternity.
00:34:16.82\00:34:17.79
>>JEFFREY: Impossible
to understand that chapter
00:34:17.79\00:34:19.82
without the Old Testament.
00:34:19.82\00:34:20.92
There's no way you understand
chapter 18 of Revelation
00:34:20.92\00:34:22.82
without the Old Testament.
00:34:22.82\00:34:24.16
>>TY: Jeffrey, I really
appreciate you bringing this
00:34:24.16\00:34:27.76
to our attention recently
and in the event that we were
00:34:27.76\00:34:30.43
preaching together at and
now again, this is extremely
00:34:30.43\00:34:33.87
helpful to see that what
we're dealing with here is a
00:34:33.87\00:34:39.17
fulfillment of this
prophecy in its ultimate form is
00:34:39.17\00:34:44.05
extremely helpful.
00:34:44.05\00:34:45.21
>>JEFFREY: Yeah, our listeners
may be aware of the Cyrus
00:34:45.21\00:34:46.61
cylinder.
00:34:46.61\00:34:48.08
This is an archeological
artifact, in that Cyrus
00:34:48.08\00:34:50.15
cylinder describes, after
Cyrus conquers Babylon, his
00:34:50.15\00:34:54.26
tolerant governmental
agenda where he allows people to
00:34:54.26\00:34:59.06
worship God according
to their own religion.
00:34:59.06\00:35:01.53
Cyrus takes on
this liberating figure.
00:35:01.53\00:35:04.17
Yeah, the Cyrus cylinder is
in the British Museum right now,
00:35:04.17\00:35:08.10
you can go see it.
00:35:08.10\00:35:09.44
>>TY: This is significant
theologically, isn't it?
00:35:09.44\00:35:11.61
I've never seen this before,
what you just said, is there a
00:35:11.61\00:35:13.74
connection here that one of
the defining characteristics
00:35:13.74\00:35:16.68
of Babylon is coercion and the
marriage of church and state,
00:35:16.68\00:35:22.55
and now, with Cyrus,
there's religious liberty.
00:35:22.55\00:35:27.02
Isn't that something?
00:35:27.02\00:35:28.26
There's religious liberty now
under Cyrus, ultimately, under
00:35:28.26\00:35:32.19
Messiah, and Jerusalem
is a place of free worship.
00:35:32.19\00:35:38.70
>>DAVID:
Jerusalem above is free.
00:35:38.70\00:35:40.07
>>DAVID:
Jerusalem above is free.
00:35:40.64\00:35:41.17
>>TY: Yes.
00:35:41.17\00:35:42.44
Thanks, man that was good stuff.
00:35:42.87\00:35:45.34
>>DAVID: As the waters of
the Euphrates, the literal
00:35:45.34\00:35:47.54
Euphrates, receded, the
support that Babylon had, the
00:35:47.54\00:35:51.75
thing that enabled them to
be fine for 20 years, dries up.
00:35:51.75\00:35:56.65
That's Revelation 17 and 18.
00:35:56.65\00:35:58.45
Her support dries up, both
by the evacuation, hey, we're
00:35:58.45\00:36:01.46
out, this was my point, and
the loyalists, it falls under
00:36:01.46\00:36:04.96
the Messiah's attack.
00:36:04.96\00:36:08.56
>>JAMES: And it's also,
actually, the wordage, the
00:36:08.56\00:36:11.40
symbolism is he actually used
in Revelation 16, you've got
00:36:11.40\00:36:14.24
the river Euphrates drying
up the way the kings of the east
00:36:14.24\00:36:16.87
would.
00:36:16.87\00:36:18.17
And so, this is fleshing out
Revelation 16 is being fleshed
00:36:18.17\00:36:21.84
out here in Revelation 17, 18.
00:36:21.84\00:36:24.05
>>DAVID: I'm gonna say something
that might sound proud.
00:36:24.05\00:36:25.28
I don't want it to
sound proud, because I don't
00:36:25.28\00:36:26.98
understand every nuance
and detail of each text, but
00:36:26.98\00:36:30.32
that's not hard to understand.
00:36:30.32\00:36:32.65
>>TY: What isn't?
00:36:32.65\00:36:33.76
>>DAVID: Just this idea,
like we talk, oh, the book of
00:36:33.76\00:36:35.16
Revelation, it's this mystery,
it's this enigma within an
00:36:35.16\00:36:37.49
enigma.
00:36:37.49\00:36:38.63
Well, that's actually pretty
clear, you know, just this
00:36:38.63\00:36:41.40
notion of the fall of Babylon
and the, when you look at the
00:36:41.40\00:36:44.63
old story, when you look
at the, the book of Revelation
00:36:44.63\00:36:48.40
and with the context that, by
the grace of God, we have been
00:36:48.40\00:36:50.51
able to achieve, with the
focus on these two principles,
00:36:50.51\00:36:56.95
two ways of viewing reality,
two ways of doing governance,
00:36:56.95\00:37:00.05
when you get down to
Revelation 17 and 18, it's
00:37:00.05\00:37:03.32
exactly what you would expect
if everything we've done up to
00:37:03.32\00:37:06.15
this point, we've
done on the right track.
00:37:06.15\00:37:08.16
You get that?
00:37:08.16\00:37:09.39
>>TY: So, the reason
why, oftentimes, people find
00:37:09.39\00:37:14.00
Revelation to be so difficult
is because they're trying to
00:37:14.00\00:37:18.33
interpret it in isolation
by just reading the book and
00:37:18.33\00:37:21.64
saying, what does that mean?
00:37:21.64\00:37:22.67
What does that mean?
00:37:22.67\00:37:23.94
What does that mean?
00:37:23.94\00:37:25.21
Well, it's up to
interpretation on the spot.
00:37:25.21\00:37:27.74
You know, but if you have the
Old Testament background, you
00:37:27.74\00:37:31.21
know the stories.
00:37:31.21\00:37:32.28
If you're Old Testament
literate, then you read the
00:37:32.28\00:37:35.42
book of Revelation like, oh,
that's referring to that, and
00:37:35.42\00:37:38.15
that's referring to that, and
that's referring to that, and
00:37:38.15\00:37:40.56
all of that Old
Testament background informs the
00:37:40.56\00:37:43.63
interpretation.
00:37:43.63\00:37:44.76
>>DAVID: I've been keeping
notes since we started, just
00:37:44.76\00:37:47.36
of each session and
things which I thought were
00:37:47.36\00:37:49.33
interesting or points that I
wanted to make, and going back
00:37:49.33\00:37:51.33
to the very first session,
Ty, you said something that has
00:37:51.33\00:37:53.87
stuck with me, that in
the book of Revelation, evil
00:37:53.87\00:37:55.80
escalates, implodes, then ends.
00:37:55.80\00:38:00.44
That's what we're seeing here,
we're saying the implosion of
00:38:00.44\00:38:03.41
this way of doing reality,
and then, shortly hereafter,
00:38:03.41\00:38:07.75
Revelation 20, 21, 22, it ends.
00:38:07.75\00:38:12.25
Revelation 20, 21, 22, it ends.
00:38:12.25\00:38:12.72
>>TY: We have to take a break,
but this has been good so far,
00:38:13.52\00:38:16.02
I've enjoyed it.
00:38:16.02\00:38:17.26
We'll come right back
and continue the discussion.
00:38:17.26\00:38:20.10
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00:38:31.24\00:38:32.97
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00:38:40.82\00:38:44.02
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00:39:16.08\00:39:19.75
>>TY: So, in this session,
we're attempting to cover
00:39:19.75\00:39:22.56
Revelation 18, Revelation 19,
and Revelation 20, and I think
00:39:22.56\00:39:27.56
we can pull it off.
00:39:27.56\00:39:28.46
Piece of cake,
Jeffrey says, piece of cake.
00:39:28.46\00:39:30.53
We can pull it off.
00:39:30.53\00:39:31.70
I think one thing that we
should do is David, would you
00:39:31.70\00:39:35.20
mind just reading
through Revelation 19?
00:39:35.20\00:39:38.44
>>DAVID: The whole thing?
00:39:38.44\00:39:39.87
Well, at least like
the first 16 verses?
00:39:39.87\00:39:43.38
Well, at least like
the first 16 verses?
00:39:43.38\00:39:44.18
>>TY: Yes, I think this
chapter, if you just read
00:39:44.45\00:39:47.72
this, it makes sense in
our context and for where we're
00:39:47.72\00:39:51.49
going.
00:39:51.49\00:39:52.72
>>DAVID: Okay, so, after these
things I heard a loud voice of
00:39:52.72\00:39:54.46
a great multitude in
heaven, saying, halleluiah!
00:39:54.46\00:39:57.29
Salvation and glory and honor
and power belong to the Lord
00:39:57.29\00:39:59.39
our God!
00:39:59.39\00:40:00.56
For true and righteous are
His judgments, because He has
00:40:00.56\00:40:02.80
judged the great harlot who
corrupted the earth with her
00:40:02.80\00:40:05.20
fornication, and He has
avenged on her the blood of
00:40:05.20\00:40:07.54
His servants shed by her.
00:40:07.54\00:40:09.24
Again they said, halleluiah!
00:40:09.24\00:40:10.61
Her smoke rises
up forever and ever!
00:40:10.61\00:40:12.61
And the twenty-four elders and
the four living creatures fell
00:40:12.61\00:40:14.61
down and worshiped God who
sat on the throne, saying, amen!
00:40:14.61\00:40:17.28
Alleluia!
00:40:17.28\00:40:18.55
Then a voice came from
the throne, saying, praise our
00:40:18.55\00:40:20.55
God, all you His servants and
those who fear Him, both small
00:40:20.55\00:40:23.28
and great!
00:40:23.28\00:40:24.49
And I heard, as it were, the
voice of a great multitude, as
00:40:24.49\00:40:26.55
the sound of many waters
and as the sound of mighty
00:40:26.55\00:40:28.56
thunderings, saying,
halleluiah, fourth time now,
00:40:28.56\00:40:30.93
for the Lord God
omnipotent reigns!
00:40:30.93\00:40:33.56
Let us be glad and rejoice
and give Him glory, for the
00:40:33.56\00:40:35.63
marriage of the Lamb has come,
and His wife has made herself
00:40:35.63\00:40:38.43
ready.
00:40:38.43\00:40:39.57
And to her it was granted
to be arrayed in fine linen,
00:40:39.57\00:40:41.44
clean and bright, for the fine
linen is the righteous acts of
00:40:41.44\00:40:44.01
the saints.
00:40:44.01\00:40:45.11
Then he said to me,
write, blessed are those who are
00:40:45.11\00:40:47.21
called to the
marriage supper of the Lamb!
00:40:47.21\00:40:49.24
And he said to me, these
are the true sayings of God.
00:40:49.24\00:40:52.11
And I fell at his
feet to worship him.
00:40:52.11\00:40:54.12
But he said, see
that you do not do that!
00:40:54.12\00:40:56.12
I am your fellow servant, and
of your brethren who have the
00:40:56.12\00:40:58.12
testimony of Jesus.
00:40:58.12\00:40:59.39
Worship God!
00:40:59.39\00:41:00.56
For the testimony of
Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
00:41:00.56\00:41:03.76
Now I saw heaven opened,
and behold, a white horse.
00:41:03.76\00:41:06.03
And He who sat on him was
called Faithful and True, and
00:41:06.03\00:41:08.43
in righteousness He
judges and makes war.
00:41:08.43\00:41:10.93
His eyes were like a flame
of fire, and on His head were
00:41:10.93\00:41:12.93
many crowns.
00:41:12.93\00:41:14.14
And He had a name written
that no one knew except Himself.
00:41:14.14\00:41:16.20
He was clothed with a robe
dipped in blood, and His name
00:41:16.20\00:41:18.34
is called the Word of God.
00:41:18.34\00:41:20.48
And the armies in heaven,
clothed in fine linen, white
00:41:20.48\00:41:22.61
and clean, followed
Him on white horses.
00:41:22.61\00:41:24.61
Now out of His mouth goes a
sharp sword, that with it He
00:41:24.61\00:41:27.05
should strike the nations.
00:41:27.05\00:41:28.25
And He Himself will
rule them with a rod of iron.
00:41:28.25\00:41:30.92
He Himself treads the
winepress of the fierceness
00:41:30.92\00:41:33.09
and wrath of Almighty God.
00:41:33.09\00:41:34.32
And He has on His robe and on
His thigh a name written, King
00:41:34.32\00:41:38.26
of kings and Lord of lords.
00:41:38.26\00:41:40.06
>>JEFFREY: That's some
glorious literature right
00:41:40.06\00:41:42.16
there.
00:41:42.16\00:41:43.37
>>TY: Now, it's not just so
beautifully composed, but it's
00:41:43.37\00:41:48.74
telling us something that
we've mentioned in previous
00:41:48.74\00:41:51.64
sessions that I think is a
good point to start with and
00:41:51.64\00:41:54.01
that is that in verse 1, after
these things, I heard a loud
00:41:54.01\00:41:58.85
voice as of a great multitude.
00:41:58.85\00:42:01.85
Voice is singular, great
multitude is plural, or it's a
00:42:01.85\00:42:07.72
lot of voices.
00:42:07.72\00:42:08.89
What's happening here,
in previous sessions, we've
00:42:08.89\00:42:11.43
pointed out that as Revelation
is beginning to open, there
00:42:11.43\00:42:16.36
are proceedings taking
place in the throne room of the
00:42:16.36\00:42:19.80
universe and you first have
the four living creatures who
00:42:19.80\00:42:24.54
comment on the character
of God, then you have the 24
00:42:24.54\00:42:27.58
elders who chime in and
say, yep, amen, we agree with
00:42:27.58\00:42:30.51
what's being divulged
and discovered regarding the
00:42:30.51\00:42:33.85
character of God.
00:42:33.85\00:42:35.15
Then, you have some singular
voice of an angel who chimes
00:42:35.15\00:42:38.85
in, is saying things.
00:42:38.85\00:42:41.19
As the book continues to
unfold, over and over again,
00:42:41.19\00:42:45.26
it's like a chorus of voices
that are building, building,
00:42:45.26\00:42:48.10
building, building, until
you have a whole multitude of
00:42:48.10\00:42:51.47
voices that includes, in
chapter 19, that includes the
00:42:51.47\00:42:54.97
24 elders, that includes
the four living creatures, it
00:42:54.97\00:42:57.74
includes the voice of a great
multitude, like the sound of
00:42:57.74\00:43:00.41
many waters, and all these
voices are coming together as
00:43:00.41\00:43:05.18
a single voice, and that's
my point, it's a singular voice
00:43:05.18\00:43:08.65
of a multitude, singular
voice of a multitude, why?
00:43:08.65\00:43:12.79
Because everyone's realizing
and saying the same thing, and
00:43:12.79\00:43:19.53
what are they saying?
00:43:19.53\00:43:20.73
That the God of scripture,
the God of history, the one and
00:43:20.73\00:43:23.93
only true God is
a God of justice.
00:43:23.93\00:43:27.24
This God is just and
true in all his ways, true and
00:43:27.24\00:43:31.61
righteous in all his ways.
00:43:31.61\00:43:34.48
Isn't that incredible?
00:43:34.48\00:43:35.64
>>DAVID: Verse 11, he's
called faithful and true, and in
00:43:35.64\00:43:37.85
righteousness, he
judges and makes war.
00:43:37.85\00:43:39.61
Verse 2, for true and
righteous are his judgments.
00:43:39.61\00:43:42.85
That's the chorus.
00:43:42.85\00:43:44.05
The four times, the repetition
of hallelujah, one, two,
00:43:44.05\00:43:47.56
three, four times, literally
just means praise Yahweh,
00:43:47.56\00:43:51.16
praise God, praise God, praise
God, and the reason is not
00:43:51.16\00:43:55.93
because he's strong and all
of that, like a comment on his
00:43:55.93\00:43:58.83
nature.
00:43:58.83\00:44:00.47
God is what God is.
00:44:00.47\00:44:01.50
I love that point
you made early on.
00:44:01.50\00:44:03.44
This is a commentary on God's
actions, on his behavior, on
00:44:03.44\00:44:07.58
his ways.
00:44:07.58\00:44:09.84
I love that point.
00:44:09.84\00:44:11.51
It takes us all the way
back to Revelation 5, where what
00:44:11.51\00:44:13.21
John saw on the throne was a
Lamb as if it had been slain.
00:44:13.21\00:44:17.22
Here, he returns, and I love
this point, not with a sword
00:44:17.22\00:44:20.16
in his hand, but with a
sword proceeding from his mouth.
00:44:20.16\00:44:25.36
He's not just a bigger version
of a king, of some normal
00:44:25.36\00:44:28.60
king.
00:44:28.60\00:44:29.76
>>TY: He's not conquering
the hitters by hitting harder.
00:44:29.76\00:44:30.93
>>DAVID: No, it's what he
says, it's his judgments, it's
00:44:30.93\00:44:33.90
his ways, it's his truth.
00:44:33.90\00:44:35.54
Jesus is the word of God.
00:44:35.54\00:44:38.31
>>JEFFREY: Verse 13.
00:44:38.31\00:44:39.41
>>DAVID: It's the way that
God speaks, which of course,
00:44:39.41\00:44:41.74
whenever we speak, that's
a reflection of what's in our
00:44:41.74\00:44:43.75
mind, the way we
think, it's who we are.
00:44:43.75\00:44:45.75
>>JAMES: And Jesus says
the same thing in John 3:16, he
00:44:45.75\00:44:48.25
says, the word that I speak,
it will condemn, it's the word
00:44:48.25\00:44:52.52
itself.
00:44:52.52\00:44:53.52
It will judge.
00:44:53.52\00:44:54.52
The word will judge.
00:44:54.52\00:44:55.52
>>TY: Where is that?
00:44:55.52\00:44:56.52
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:56.52\00:44:57.89
>>JAMES: You know,
John 3, isn't it John 3:16?
00:44:57.89\00:44:59.06
I'm trying to think if that's
the right verse or if it's
00:44:59.06\00:45:00.66
another one.
00:45:00.66\00:45:01.26
>>TY: It's in John 3, yeah.
00:45:01.26\00:45:02.46
>>JAMES: John 3:16, you know,
we looked at the verse where
00:45:02.46\00:45:06.87
it says they loved
darkness rather than light.
00:45:06.87\00:45:08.34
it says they loved
darkness rather than light.
00:45:09.34\00:45:10.64
Yeah, that's verse 19.
00:45:10.64\00:45:12.24
Yeah, that's verse 19.
00:45:13.17\00:45:14.78
>>JEFFREY: We get
what you're saying.
00:45:14.94\00:45:16.98
>>JAMES: It's there.
00:45:16.98\00:45:18.58
>>TY: But check this out,
you guys, what do you think of
00:45:18.58\00:45:20.22
this connection?
00:45:20.22\00:45:21.38
You can see here in my bible
that in chapter 19, it says,
00:45:21.38\00:45:24.82
in verse 11, that he judges.
00:45:24.82\00:45:28.59
Jesus judges.
00:45:28.59\00:45:31.03
And then, I draw a line
over here to chapter 20, it says
00:45:31.03\00:45:34.83
that he
committed judgment to them.
00:45:34.83\00:45:39.43
There's this thing
about judgment that I find
00:45:39.43\00:45:42.24
fascinating in scripture.
00:45:42.24\00:45:44.57
The Father is ultimate and the
Father commits all judgment to
00:45:44.57\00:45:48.81
the Son.
00:45:48.81\00:45:49.94
He defers.
00:45:49.94\00:45:50.95
He says, you judge.
00:45:50.95\00:45:52.18
The Son here has the authority
to judge and he says, no, you
00:45:52.18\00:46:00.09
judge.
00:46:00.09\00:46:02.39
There's a collective
judgment that's taking place.
00:46:02.39\00:46:04.96
There's, I'm not going to
force on you a perspective
00:46:04.96\00:46:10.57
that you don't see.
00:46:10.57\00:46:12.30
I want you to
evaluate the evidence.
00:46:12.30\00:46:15.37
And in evaluating
the evidence, what's your
00:46:15.37\00:46:17.74
judgment?
00:46:17.74\00:46:18.74
What's your discernment?
00:46:18.74\00:46:19.81
What's your conclusion
based on how human history has
00:46:19.81\00:46:22.51
unfolded, how God has
conducted himself, what is
00:46:22.51\00:46:26.61
your judgment?
00:46:26.61\00:46:27.85
>>JEFFREY: I don't want you to
obey me, I want you to want to
00:46:27.85\00:46:29.62
obey me type of thing.
00:46:29.62\00:46:30.72
>>DAVID: I love the fact
that you said based on your
00:46:30.72\00:46:32.82
perspective because that is
the thing that gives Jesus the
00:46:32.82\00:46:36.89
right to judge.
00:46:36.89\00:46:38.76
John chapter 5, verse 22,
Jesus said, the Father judges
00:46:38.76\00:46:41.46
no man, but has committed
all judgement to the Son.
00:46:41.46\00:46:43.83
Just a few verses later, it
says because he is the Son of
00:46:43.83\00:46:46.50
man.
00:46:46.50\00:46:47.67
Jesus became a man and is
therefore imminently qualified
00:46:47.67\00:46:52.31
to know our situation,
to empathize with us, to
00:46:52.31\00:46:56.31
sympathize with us, to enter in.
00:46:56.31\00:46:58.31
So, he can judge in the sense
of he can evaluate, he can,
00:46:58.31\00:47:02.55
with fairness and with truth.
00:47:02.55\00:47:04.12
He, then I love this idea
that you're communicating in
00:47:04.12\00:47:06.12
Revelation 20, he
passes the baton of judgment.
00:47:06.12\00:47:09.02
So, what do you think?
00:47:09.02\00:47:10.73
This is my evaluation,
what's your evaluation of my
00:47:10.73\00:47:13.56
evaluation?
00:47:13.56\00:47:14.36
There's
actually a word for that.
00:47:14.36\00:47:16.87
>>JEFFREY: What's your
evaluation of my evaluation?
00:47:16.87\00:47:18.87
>>DAVID: In court proceedings,
that's what's called a
00:47:18.87\00:47:20.87
judicial review.
00:47:20.87\00:47:22.04
So, this has happened, and
then you say to these people,
00:47:22.04\00:47:24.27
hey, how did that go?
00:47:24.27\00:47:26.24
And then they review the
judgment and the proceedings
00:47:26.24\00:47:29.58
and they say, yeah.
00:47:29.58\00:47:30.58
>>TY: They judge the judgment.
00:47:30.58\00:47:31.95
>>DAVID: They
judge the judgment.
00:47:31.95\00:47:33.28
>>JAMES: Isn't there a
verse where, in the context of
00:47:33.28\00:47:36.52
judgment, Jesus basically
says, or I think it's Paul
00:47:36.52\00:47:40.06
says, since you judge
yourselves unworthy...
00:47:40.06\00:47:43.16
>>DAVID: That's in Acts.
00:47:43.16\00:47:44.56
>>JAMES: You're
judging yourselves unworthy.
00:47:44.56\00:47:45.99
You're making the judgment.
00:47:45.99\00:47:47.13
>>DAVID: It's Acts 13, you
judge yourselves unworthy, lo,
00:47:47.13\00:47:50.87
we turn to the Gentiles.
00:47:50.87\00:47:52.27
>>JAMES: Judgment is not so
much about what God decides as
00:47:52.27\00:47:53.60
it is about what we decide.
00:47:53.60\00:47:56.20
We, and the judgment we're
making about even ourselves is
00:47:56.20\00:47:59.14
being revealed.
00:47:59.14\00:48:00.71
>>TY: That's a powerful concept.
00:48:00.71\00:48:02.41
>>DAVID: This whole idea
of judicial review is what's
00:48:02.41\00:48:05.18
happening in Revelation 20.
00:48:05.18\00:48:07.45
Revelation 20 is one of
these difficult, challenging
00:48:07.45\00:48:09.95
passages of scripture for
a lot of people, but in the
00:48:09.95\00:48:14.72
flowing context of what
we've been discussing here,
00:48:14.72\00:48:17.83
Revelation 20 is a scene
in which judgment is taking
00:48:17.83\00:48:21.93
place, but it's a
judgment of the judgment.
00:48:21.93\00:48:25.10
It's an
evaluation by the saints.
00:48:25.10\00:48:28.67
>>TY: Show us that, David.
00:48:28.67\00:48:31.74
Where is it?
00:48:31.74\00:48:32.87
>>DAVID: Well, as crazy as
this sounds, very much like
00:48:32.87\00:48:34.74
Revelation 19, I think you
can almost just read it in like
00:48:34.74\00:48:37.98
the first few verses.
00:48:37.98\00:48:39.08
Then I saw an angel coming
down from heaven, verse 1,
00:48:39.08\00:48:41.65
having the key to the
bottomless pit and a great
00:48:41.65\00:48:43.65
chain in his hand.
00:48:43.65\00:48:44.82
He laid hold of the dragon,
that serpent of old, who is
00:48:44.82\00:48:47.42
the Devil and Satan, and
bound him for a thousand years.
00:48:47.42\00:48:50.13
He cast him into the
bottomless pit, and shut him
00:48:50.13\00:48:52.13
up, and set a seal on him,
so that he would deceive the
00:48:52.13\00:48:54.30
nations no longer till the
thousand years were finished.
00:48:54.30\00:48:56.83
But after these things he
must be released for a little
00:48:56.83\00:48:58.90
while.
00:48:58.90\00:49:00.07
Now, verse 4, and I saw
thrones, and they sat on them,
00:49:00.07\00:49:04.44
and judgment was
committed to them.
00:49:04.44\00:49:06.94
Then I saw the souls of
those who had been beheaded for
00:49:06.94\00:49:09.04
their witness to Jesus for
the word of God, and who had not
00:49:09.04\00:49:11.21
worshiped the beast or his
image, or had not received his
00:49:11.21\00:49:14.32
mark on their
foreheads or on their hands.
00:49:14.32\00:49:16.45
And they lived and reigned
with Christ for a thousand
00:49:16.45\00:49:18.45
years.
00:49:18.45\00:49:19.52
But the rest of the dead
did not live again until the
00:49:19.52\00:49:21.46
thousand years were finished.
00:49:21.46\00:49:22.46
This is the first resurrection.
00:49:22.46\00:49:23.49
Blessed and holy is he
who has part in the first
00:49:23.49\00:49:25.46
resurrection.
00:49:25.46\00:49:26.66
Over such the second death
has no power, but they shall be
00:49:26.66\00:49:28.43
priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with Him a
00:49:28.43\00:49:31.17
thousand years.
00:49:31.17\00:49:32.17
>>TY: So, pause right
there, then, unpack that.
00:49:32.17\00:49:34.70
>>DAVID: Okay, well, the
thousand years part, some
00:49:34.70\00:49:37.81
people regard as a little
tricky, so maybe we'll just,
00:49:37.81\00:49:39.81
let me just put that for a
moment, the actual where that
00:49:39.81\00:49:42.21
takes place.
00:49:42.21\00:49:43.31
But what's happening here
is, is that Satan is bound.
00:49:43.31\00:49:45.48
He is placed in some kind of
incarceration and then, in the
00:49:45.48\00:49:49.95
immediate context of that,
John sees thrones that are set
00:49:49.95\00:49:52.89
in place, and they evaluate
the history of the world.
00:49:52.89\00:49:58.23
Those that were beheaded,
martyrs, those that did or did
00:49:58.23\00:50:02.03
not receive the mark.
00:50:02.03\00:50:03.23
They are evaluating, and you
get this sense that Satan is,
00:50:03.23\00:50:06.40
the whole time, in a kind of
pre-trial incarceration, like,
00:50:06.40\00:50:09.07
hey, you just sit there
while we look at the books.
00:50:09.07\00:50:11.07
Now, I am very much of the
mind that this is taking place
00:50:11.07\00:50:14.71
after the return of Christ,
which is Revelation 11, this
00:50:14.71\00:50:17.95
is Jesus, this is he's
returned, he's got the sword
00:50:17.95\00:50:20.58
proceeding out of his mouth.
00:50:20.58\00:50:21.62
>>JEFFREY: It has to be.
00:50:21.62\00:50:23.59
>>JAMES:
Revelation 19:11, you mean.
00:50:23.59\00:50:27.06
>>DAVID: Excuse
me, what did I say?
00:50:27.06\00:50:28.12
>>JAMES: Revelation 11.
00:50:28.12\00:50:28.89
>>DAVID: Yeah, I'm sorry, 19:11.
00:50:28.89\00:50:29.99
>>JEFFREY: It has to be at
the second coming of Jesus.
00:50:29.99\00:50:31.63
>>DAVID: So, here's a
really simple way to think about
00:50:31.63\00:50:33.19
this.
00:50:33.19\00:50:34.30
Every human being at this
point in history, or at any
00:50:34.30\00:50:35.73
point in history, I suppose,
can be divided into one of
00:50:35.73\00:50:37.97
four categories,
it's real simple.
00:50:37.97\00:50:40.90
You're either righteous
living or righteous dead, you've
00:50:40.90\00:50:43.67
already died.
00:50:43.67\00:50:44.74
Or your wicked
living or wicked dead.
00:50:44.74\00:50:47.58
That's to say, you put
your faith in Jesus and you're
00:50:47.58\00:50:49.78
alive, you've put your faith
in Jesus or you're dead, you
00:50:49.78\00:50:52.45
haven't, you follow it.
00:50:52.45\00:50:54.55
So, when Jesus returns,
you just go down and say, okay,
00:50:54.55\00:50:57.89
what happens to the
righteous who are living?
00:50:57.89\00:51:01.22
They ascend to heaven.
What's the word I'm looking for?
00:51:01.22\00:51:04.76
>>JAMES: Caught up.
00:51:04.76\00:51:05.96
>>DAVID:
There's a word for that.
00:51:05.96\00:51:07.23
>>TY: Raptured.
00:51:07.23\00:51:08.16
[Laughter]
00:51:08.16\00:51:11.70
>>DAVID: So, there's
the righteous living.
00:51:11.70\00:51:13.10
Okay, so, what
happens to the righteous dead?
00:51:13.10\00:51:14.50
They're resurrected.
00:51:14.50\00:51:15.54
Okay, what happens
to the wicked living?
00:51:15.54\00:51:18.17
They're destroyed with
the brightness of his coming,
00:51:18.17\00:51:20.51
right?
00:51:20.51\00:51:21.11
They die the first death.
00:51:21.11\00:51:22.18
>>JAMES: 2 Thessalonians 2.
00:51:22.18\00:51:23.38
>>DAVID: What
happens to the wicked dead?
00:51:23.38\00:51:25.31
They stay dead.
00:51:25.31\00:51:26.58
So, then you have this
interlude, that thousand year
00:51:26.58\00:51:28.58
period where the earth is
barren, it's void is vacant.
00:51:28.58\00:51:33.36
Except that...
00:51:33.36\00:51:34.32
>>JAMES: It's a prison house.
00:51:34.32\00:51:35.69
That's what we
read in Revelation 18.
00:51:35.69\00:51:37.19
>>DAVID: Yeah, Lucifer
and his angels are here alone.
00:51:37.19\00:51:41.76
Alone by themselves.
00:51:41.76\00:51:42.86
In other words, there's
no human beings, no tempting,
00:51:42.86\00:51:44.77
none of that.
00:51:44.77\00:51:45.83
And the righteous are in
heaven before, and to me, I
00:51:45.83\00:51:49.54
love this point, before
any terminal punishments are
00:51:49.54\00:51:53.14
executed upon anyone.
00:51:53.14\00:51:54.74
When I mean terminal, this is
second death, no resurrection.
00:51:54.74\00:51:59.31
Then, God's like, hey
look, what do you think?
00:51:59.31\00:52:02.85
And there's the judicial review.
00:52:02.85\00:52:04.85
What do you think?
00:52:04.85\00:52:06.19
>>TY: Judge the judgment.
00:52:06.19\00:52:07.66
>>JEFFREY: Before the
executive judgment takes
00:52:07.66\00:52:10.33
place, God basically subjects
himself to scrutiny so that
00:52:10.33\00:52:15.06
when that final execution of
judgment takes place, everyone
00:52:15.06\00:52:20.24
who witnesses it would've said,
I would've done the same thing
00:52:20.24\00:52:22.77
had I known what God knows.
00:52:22.77\00:52:24.87
>>TY: The language of the
text is he committed judgment.
00:52:24.87\00:52:27.44
had I known what God knows.
00:52:27.44\00:52:27.81
>>TY: The language of the
text is he committed judgment.
00:52:28.64\00:52:30.38
This is powerful stuff.
00:52:30.48\00:52:31.95
This means the God of the
universe is the God of full
00:52:31.95\00:52:33.65
disclosure.
00:52:33.65\00:52:34.82
>>DAVID: That's what
I was just gonna say.
00:52:34.82\00:52:35.68
>>TY: I don't have any secrets.
00:52:35.68\00:52:38.32
>>JEFFREY: No
arbitrary decisions.
00:52:38.32\00:52:40.06
>>DAVID: And it's fascinating
that here, is again called the
00:52:40.06\00:52:43.36
devil and Satan, that serpent
of old, because the primary
00:52:43.36\00:52:47.23
strength, the primary tool,
the primary weapon that Satan
00:52:47.23\00:52:50.70
has been using from Genesis
to Revelation is deception.
00:52:50.70\00:52:54.70
It's not his strength,
it's not his might, it's not his
00:52:54.70\00:52:56.47
force, it's not his
power, it's deception.
00:52:56.47\00:52:58.67
So, Satan's primary
weapon is deception.
00:52:58.67\00:53:00.84
Check this out, God's
primary weapon is disclosure.
00:53:00.84\00:53:05.41
>>TY: Truth.
00:53:05.41\00:53:07.15
I have nothing to hide.
00:53:07.15\00:53:09.42
>>TY: Truth.
00:53:09.42\00:53:09.68
>>DAVID: He's, and then,
it can't happen all at once.
00:53:10.59\00:53:14.02
It's like, okay, peel this back
with the angels, and then peel
00:53:14.02\00:53:16.32
this back so he's cast to
the earth, and we just keep
00:53:16.32\00:53:18.59
peeling it back and then,
finally, Satan is left alone.
00:53:18.59\00:53:23.57
There was no
place found for him.
00:53:23.57\00:53:26.37
>>TY: What would we think of
an earthly ruler, a president,
00:53:26.37\00:53:29.60
a prime
minister, a monarch, right?
00:53:29.60\00:53:32.07
>>DAVID: You
just opened this up.
00:53:32.07\00:53:34.08
You think about this whole
thing that's been happening
00:53:34.08\00:53:37.51
over the last 5 years, 7
years, with WikiLeaks, where
00:53:37.51\00:53:40.18
governments are having,
like, some of their secret
00:53:40.18\00:53:43.05
conversations and documents
exposed and it's created huge
00:53:43.05\00:53:44.85
amounts of embarrassment.
00:53:44.85\00:53:47.09
>>TY: Because they're saying
things that they don't want
00:53:47.09\00:53:48.52
anyone to know.
00:53:48.52\00:53:49.69
>>DAVID: Exactly, but God's
like, here's what I've done.
00:53:49.69\00:53:51.03
No need for WikiLeaks,
I declassify all of these
00:53:51.03\00:53:55.60
documents.
00:53:55.60\00:53:56.56
>>JAMES: Check this
out, 'cause we talk about Old
00:53:56.56\00:53:57.87
Testament types, but we
also need to talk about New
00:53:57.87\00:53:59.63
Testament types and the
bible itself interpreting
00:53:59.63\00:54:03.24
Revelation.
00:54:03.24\00:54:04.44
Check this out, Jesus is taken
to trial, Jesus is taken to
00:54:04.44\00:54:07.98
trial before a secular
court, before a religious court,
00:54:07.98\00:54:10.65
Jesus is on trial, and this
is what he says, the question is
00:54:10.65\00:54:13.15
asked, and the high priests
asked him, and this is John
00:54:13.15\00:54:14.78
chapter 18, and by the
way, just doing some feedback on
00:54:14.78\00:54:18.72
John 12:48, that's the place
where that verse is, I judge
00:54:18.72\00:54:22.46
no man, but they'll
be judged by the word.
00:54:22.46\00:54:24.16
John 18, it says, the high
priest then asked Jesus of his
00:54:24.16\00:54:26.96
disciples and his doctrine and
Jesus answered him, verse 20,
00:54:26.96\00:54:29.43
I spake openly to the world.
00:54:29.43\00:54:32.90
I ever taught in the
synagogue, and in the temple,
00:54:32.90\00:54:36.44
wither the Jews always
resort, in secret, I have said
00:54:36.44\00:54:39.97
nothing.
00:54:39.97\00:54:41.78
>>DAVID: What text is it?
00:54:42.81\00:54:43.71
>>JAMES: It's John
18, verses 19 and 20.
00:54:43.71\00:54:47.05
John 18, verses 19 and 20.
00:54:47.05\00:54:48.55
>>DAVID: Thank
you, James, for that.
00:54:48.55\00:54:49.62
>>JEFFREY: Ty, you
better land this plane.
00:54:49.62\00:54:51.15
>>TY: Was that that whole point?
00:54:51.15\00:54:54.09
>>JAMES: That
is the whole point.
00:54:54.09\00:54:55.66
>>DAVID: It's full disclosure,
it's vulnerability, it's
00:54:55.66\00:54:57.49
transparency.
00:54:57.49\00:54:59.29
>>TY: Transparency
is a very good word.
00:54:59.29\00:55:01.93
And I really love the language.
00:55:01.93\00:55:05.23
I hereby
declassify all the documents.
00:55:05.23\00:55:09.84
Everything is on the table,
this is a God who has nothing
00:55:09.84\00:55:14.64
to hide, this is a God who
wants us to evaluate and pass
00:55:14.64\00:55:19.25
judgment on him because he's
confident that his character
00:55:19.25\00:55:22.88
will pass the scrutiny.
00:55:22.88\00:55:24.52
>>DAVID: His
conduct is unimpeachable.
00:55:24.52\00:55:26.52
>>JEFFREY: So, God
is really on trial.
00:55:26.52\00:55:27.72
>>DAVID: His
conduct is unimpeachable.
00:55:27.72\00:55:29.66
>>JEFFREY: So, God
is really on trial.
00:55:29.66\00:55:30.19
>>DAVID: By the way,
that's not some novel, new idea.
00:55:30.83\00:55:32.03
CS Lewis famously wrote a
book years ago, God in the dock.
00:55:32.03\00:55:36.30
>>TY: Or in the hot
seat, on trial, God on trial.
00:55:36.30\00:55:40.44
>>DAVID: And you think about
it today, that's the question
00:55:40.44\00:55:41.70
that people say, they said
why did God, where was God?
00:55:41.70\00:55:44.47
>>TY: Well, pay attention
'cause he's about to reveal
00:55:44.47\00:55:46.07
everything.
00:55:46.07\00:55:48.34
That's right.
00:55:48.34\00:55:49.44
>>JAMES: John 3:4.
00:55:49.44\00:55:50.58
But God forbid, let God be
true and every man a lie, as
00:55:50.58\00:55:52.98
it is written that though may
be justified in thy stains and
00:55:52.98\00:55:56.18
mightiest overcome
when thou art judged.
00:55:56.18\00:55:58.65
>>TY: Man, oh, man, this has
been fun, fun bible study, and
00:55:58.65\00:56:02.76
it's fun because it
reveals God to be incredible, it
00:56:02.76\00:56:07.23
reveals God to be incredible.
00:56:07.23\00:56:08.96
>>JAMES: In
Revelation 19 and 20.
00:56:08.96\00:56:10.30
>>TY: Yeah, God is good.
00:56:10.30\00:56:11.47
[Music]
00:56:11.47\00:56:14.54
>>TY: Yeah, God is good.
00:56:14.54\00:56:14.67