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Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000408A
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00:11 [Music] 00:21 >>TY: Man, it's great to be back with you guys. 00:23 I thoroughly enjoy studying the bible with you. 00:26 It's an experience that is not only intellectually stimulating, 00:33 but it opens my mind to see things and I know this is true 00:37 for all of us, that we wouldn't see unless we have a 00:41 conversation with one another, and the same is true all over 00:45 the world. 00:46 People should be having spiritual conversations. 00:49 People should be opening the bible, not just showing up at 00:52 church once a week and listening to somebody preach, 00:55 but getting together as friends and just opening the 00:59 bible, reading a passage and saying, hey, what's going on 01:02 here? 01:03 Let's study together, and that's what Table Talk is all 01:05 about and it's just a privilege, it's an honor. 01:07 >>DAVID: And it's a joy, it literally is fun, it's 01:11 enjoyable, it doesn't diminish the significance of it, or the 01:14 importance of it to say that it is an enjoyable thing to 01:17 sit down, behold how good and how pleasant it is for 01:19 brothers to dwell together in unity, Psalm 133. 01:22 It's pleasant. 01:23 >>JAMES: And a lot of people may not know this, but this is 01:27 probably the longest amount of time we get to spend together, 01:30 all four of us together. 01:31 We catch up between sessions, we get to talk about the 01:34 latest apps and gadgets and things we're doing, and then, 01:37 of course, we get to catch up on our spiritual journeys, 01:40 things we've been learning, etcetera. 01:42 A lot of the stuff that we've been talking about, it's like, 01:44 well, when did you learn, really? 01:46 Well, how long, did you, I never heard of that before. 01:49 And we're taking notes. 01:50 >>DAVID: I got a whole thing full of notes here, I'm loving 01:52 it. 01:53 >>TY: Yeah, yeah. 01:54 Well, let me ask you a question, another question to 01:56 get us into the passage. 01:58 >>JAMES: 366 GTO 389 4-barrel. 02:02 The best car. 02:03 >>TY: I didn't ask any question about a car. 02:05 If right now...I just wanna dig into your psyches, I wanna 02:11 find out what's going on deep inside your soul. 02:14 Okay, so, here it is, if you could right now, snap your 02:17 fingers and uninvent anything, any human invention, 02:23 innovation, technology. 02:24 >>DAVID: Email. 02:26 >>TY: If you could just uninvent it. 02:27 You would uninvent email. 02:29 >>DAVID: Email is the bane of my existence. 02:31 It's just like, it just keeps coming and I'm waging a war 02:33 against it. 02:34 >>TY: But I have things to say to you in emails. 02:36 >>DAVID: How about this? 02:38 You remember when you used to get a letter, you'd get a 02:40 letter, you'd sit down and you'd open it. 02:43 >>JEFFREY: You mean the letter you got two months after the 02:44 person wrote it? 02:45 >>DAVID: Yeah, but I don't mind that, a letter... 02:47 >>TY: You would uninvent email, okay. 02:48 >>JEFFREY: Snapchat. 02:50 You don't even know what that is, do you? 02:52 >>TY: I know what it is. 02:53 I tried it once, I didn't like it. 02:54 >>JEFFREY: It's annoying, it bothers me. 02:56 >>DAVID: But are you on it? 02:57 >>JEFFREY: No. 02:58 >>DAVID: Well, why would you wanna uninvent something that 02:59 you could just choose to not participate in? 03:00 >>JEFFREY: Cause I'm bothered that other people are on it. 03:02 >>DAVID: [Laughter] 03:04 >>TY: James, what would you uninvent? 03:06 Some technology or some device or something, can't be the can 03:10 opener? 03:12 What would you uninvent? 03:14 >>DAVID: Maybe something more important like an atomic, 03:15 like, the atomic bomb. 03:18 >>JAMES: That's the first thing that came to my brain. 03:19 >>TY: Wow, the atomic brain. 03:20 >>JEFFREY: That makes me sound really trivial now. 03:22 >>DAVID: Well, it makes what I said sound really trivial, 03:24 too. 03:25 >>TY: I think I would uninvent television. 03:27 I mean, we're on television doing this. 03:31 >>DAVID: There's the irony. 03:33 >>TY: We're just using the medium because it exists, but 03:36 man, isn't it the omnipresent idol? 03:39 If you think about it, it's just everywhere, and there's 03:43 so much, is there 10% of the stuff on television is worth 03:50 watching? 03:51 >>DAVID: No. 03:52 >>TY: Is there 5% that's worth watching? 03:53 >>DAVID: The only television that I see in a year, the only 03:57 television that I see, in terms of, like, programming, 03:59 where NBC, ABC, Fox, and all of that, happens when I go to 04:04 visit my parents. 04:06 When I go to visit my parents, the television is on. 04:08 It is continually on. 04:10 >>TY: It's just background noise. 04:11 >>DAVID: And the stuff, they just leave it on, God bless 04:13 them, I love my parents very much, but the stuff that's on 04:16 there, I'm just like, it's either so banal, so... 04:18 >>TY: I just can't even endure the commercials. 04:21 >>DAVID: It's terrible. 04:22 Oh, the commercials are an insult to your intelligence. 04:24 Your IQ goes down like 2 points every time you watch 04:27 one of those commercials. 04:28 You just sit there like, so I hear that, I hear that loud 04:32 and clear. 04:34 >>JEFFREY: I got a visual of you drooling. 04:35 >>DAVID: I'm sorry, I just had to do that. 04:37 >>TY: Anyways, anyways, anyways, the reason I asked, 04:39 again, I'm trying to just get us into the text here, but in 04:42 Revelation 13, we spent our time together last session, 04:46 last conversation, in verses 1-10 identifying the sea 04:50 beast. 04:51 When we come to verse 11 and onward, there's another beast 04:55 that comes up from the earth. 04:56 The previous one came up out of the sea, we identified that 04:59 power in history. 05:01 The second beast comes up out of the earth, out of the land, 05:04 and that beast, I think we're going to discover, in our 05:08 conversation, I don't know if the right word is invention, 05:11 but that beast invented something novel, unique, 05:16 different, that really wasn't anywhere in any human system 05:20 in the world. 05:22 That beast invented a system of governance that is 05:27 completely unique in human history. 05:30 So, I'll just leave it at that and we'll see if we can make 05:34 those connections, but, go ahead. 05:36 >>DAVID: Well, I was gonna say, maybe we should say that 05:38 the significance of coming up out of the sea, that's the 05:42 first beast, Revelation 13. 05:43 >>JEFFREY: Well, read it, we haven't even read it, have we? 05:45 >>DAVID: Well, no, we did, Revelation 13:1, and I stood 05:47 on the sand of the sea and I saw a beast rising up out of 05:49 the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his 05:51 horns 10 crowns and on his head a blasphemous name? 05:53 Did we not read that text? 05:55 >>TY: We read the text, you were about to define what it 05:57 means. 05:58 >>JAMES: Out of the sea versus the earth. 06:01 >>DAVID: So, that's the sea, and then the earth is verse 06:02 11, and then I saw a beast coming up out of the earth and 06:04 he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke like a dragon. 06:06 >>TY: So, we got a clear comparison here. 06:08 >>DAVID: One is coming up out of this area, one is coming up 06:10 out of this area, and the earth, of course, is covered, 06:12 you're either on land or you're on the sea, right, 06:15 that's what's available to us here. 06:17 And sea, we see in Revelation, we see in Daniel that just as 06:20 we're dealing with beasts that are symbolic, time periods 06:23 that are symbolic, horns that are symbolic, this water is 06:27 symbolic and it's representing people. 06:32 >>JEFFREY: Chapter 17, verse 15, Revelation 17:15. 06:33 >>TY: Can you read that verse straight up because it defines 06:37 the symbol. 06:38 >>JEFFREY: 17:15 in Revelation, and he said to me, 06:41 the waters which you saw where the harlot sits were peoples, 06:44 multitudes, nations. 06:46 >>TY: We even use that kind of language today, we speak of 06:48 seeing a sea of people, a large body of people. 06:52 So, when it says that this beast comes up out of the sea, 06:56 it means a power, a system, an empire, a nation whatever, some 07:00 kind of earthly system, arose in a populated area of the world. 07:06 Among nations, among multiple nations that coexist, butting 07:12 up against one another. 07:13 >>DAVID: It seems a very reasonable inference then, 07:16 that a beast that comes up out of the land is coming up in a 07:20 different kind of area. 07:22 It's the opposite. 07:24 So, if this a densely populated area, a nations and 07:26 territories that have been occupied for centuries and 07:28 centuries and centuries, this is a place that is relatively 07:32 new. 07:33 Seemingly new, it's not as populated. 07:37 It's not the old world. 07:38 >>TY: It's the new world. 07:39 >>DAVID: It's the new world. 07:41 >>TY: And it is populated, not as densely populated, in fact, 07:43 it's a large land mass that is brought to view here, but 07:48 there are peoples there, which we can say something about, 07:51 but we're, we haven't even identified yet, but we know, 07:57 don't we, in our previous conversation, that the sea 08:00 beast of Revelation 13, verses 1-10, that beast is the Roman 08:07 empire papal phase, the medieval church, and we 08:10 identified that that church reigns for a period of 1260 08:14 years from 538 to 1798. 08:18 So, then, when we come to verse 11, it says, then, I saw 08:22 another beast coming up out of the earth, it's sequential. 08:25 So, we can expect some kind of power, some kind of system of 08:30 governance to emerge on the scene of world history after 08:37 or around 1798, and that new system, that new system of 08:41 governance will come up in a relatively unpopulated part of 08:47 the world. 08:48 It's obvious, with those two identifiers, who this land 08:54 beast is. 08:55 >>JEFFREY: But maybe we can just read another section of 08:56 verse 11, because it says that the beast comes up out of the 08:59 earth and it has two horns like a lamb. 09:02 >>JAMES: Before we go there, I wanna go back to the earth, I 09:04 just wanna give a verification for that. 09:05 If we go back to Revelation chapter 12, we have a 09:08 verification that the earth is a wilderness, it's an 09:12 uninhabited area. 09:14 >>DAVID: Comparatively less inhabited. 09:15 >>JAMES: Yeah, look at this. 09:16 We talked about this already, the woman, who is the church, 09:20 going underground and, in verse 6, she heads out to the 09:23 wilderness again in Revelation chapter 12 and verse 14, the 09:27 woman heads out into the wilderness and this time, it 09:29 says, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle 09:31 that she might fly into the wilderness, okay? 09:36 That's a desolate area, a less populated area, into her place 09:40 where she is nourished for a time, time and a half, time 09:42 from the face of the serpent, there's that timeframe again, 09:44 and the serpent cast out of his mouth water as of a flood 09:48 after the woman that he might cause her to be carried away 09:50 of the flood, and that talks, and that language is talking 09:54 about, again, waters, but a flood in the bible actually 09:58 represents persecuting waters, when the enemy shall come in 10:01 like a flood, it says in Isaiah 59:19. 10:03 The Spirit of the Lord will raise up a standard against 10:05 him. 10:06 So, a flood is used in the bible to represent 10:07 persecution, which is coming against the woman, and it 10:11 says, so, verse 15, the dragon's casting out these 10:15 waters of persecution, but notice this, verse 16, here's 10:18 the key verse, and the earth helped the woman, and the 10:22 earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood, which 10:26 the dragon cast out of his mouth. 10:27 >>TY: Swallowed up the persecution? 10:28 >>JAMES: Yes. 10:30 Interestingly, during this period of time, God's people 10:34 found refuge not only in the Alps and the wilderness areas 10:37 of Europe, but they also found refuge in the continent of 10:42 America. 10:43 They actually came over to this continent in the 15th 10:46 century and the 16th century, in the 17th, all through the 10:49 end of this Dark Age period, the woman found refuge in the 10:54 continent of America, which is identified here as the same 10:56 place where this beast rises up, the earth. 10:58 It's the earth. 10:59 >>TY: They escaped persecution. 11:01 >>JAMES: Yes, they escaped persecution, they found refuge 11:02 here in the earth, the earth helps to swallow up that flood 11:05 of persecution, and then, as we move forward, going through 11:08 the history of the first sea beast, as you move forward, we 11:10 find another beast, another kingdom, another government, 11:12 another power, another earthly power, rising up out of the 11:15 same place where the woman found refuge. 11:17 So, it fits perfectly. 11:18 >>TY: That's a great connection. 11:22 >>DAVID: Well, in verse, Jeffrey... 11:24 >>JEFFREY: I was just getting to the point in verse 11 11:27 where, not only does it tell us the coming up, you just 11:30 positioned us chronologically, or in history, and now we're 11:34 having characteristics of what the thing is like and it says 11:37 it has two horns like a lamb and I think the fascinating 11:39 thing about that, we've run into Lamb already in our study 11:43 of Revelation, but what is it, 28 times, 27, 28, 29 times in 11:47 the entire book of Revelation that the word Lamb comes up 11:50 and every single time, it's in reference, every single time, 11:54 other than this, it's capital L, the translators, it's a 11:58 direct reference to Jesus. 12:00 >>DAVID: But I think even this is a reference to Jesus. 12:02 >>JEFFREY: I think it is, I think it is. 12:03 >>TY: But, you're gonna make a distinction, right? 12:07 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, well, the distinction I was gonna make 12:10 was that those other references are directly 12:12 referencing the Lamb Jesus, this reference is John pulling 12:18 that language, that characteristic, to describe 12:23 this beast as lamb-like. 12:26 So, this is not Jesus, right, this is... 12:30 >>TY: But it's an earthly system... 12:32 >>JEFFREY: Right, this is a Jesus-ish, Christ-ish 12:35 characteristic of this earthly system. 12:38 That's right. 12:40 And horns are symbols of governmental power, and so 12:45 these are lamb-like. 12:47 >>TY: Wait, you said that really fast, back up, you just 12:48 said that as though it were true. 12:51 >>JEFFREY: It is, just trust me. 12:53 >>TY: So, what did you say, though? 12:54 Slower. 12:55 >>JEFFREY: I was talking about the horns. 12:56 >>TY: Horns are a symbol of? 12:58 >>JEFFREY: Governmental power. 12:59 We've been running into beasts that represent powers and they 13:01 have horns on them. 13:03 >>TY: By the way, for those who are studying with us, 13:05 that's in the book of Daniel again? 13:07 >>JEFFREY: Yes, Daniel chapter 7, Daniel chapter 7. 13:10 And so, because the horns are symbols of governmental power 13:15 and the horns are lamb-like, put the pieces of the puzzle 13:19 together, we're looking at a power that arises in, you 13:24 know, late 18th century, whose governmental system will have 13:29 embedded into it Christ like principles. 13:33 >>TY: This is amazing. 13:37 >>DAVID: The first time I was exposed to this prophecy, I 13:39 was probably already a believer of about 2 months, 13:43 but when I was exposed to this prophecy as a premed student 13:45 at the age of 23, I was like, God is real. 13:50 I just was like, it just was like solidified. 13:52 Up 'til that point, I was already persuaded, given my 13:54 life to Christ, studying scripture, but I was like, 13:58 can you explain that again? 14:00 They walked me through the markers. 14:01 So, this is what we're looking for. 14:02 Late 18th century, relatively sparsely populated, compared 14:06 to the old world. 14:07 Helps a woman escape persecution from the Roman 14:10 power, lamb-like systems of governance, identified as a 14:14 Christian system. 14:16 >>TY: This is the United States of America. 14:19 >>JEFFREY: And you know what blows my mind is that... 14:21 >>DAVID: And it's not a stretch. 14:22 What's really going on here in your gymnastics with the text, 14:26 it's like... 14:28 >>JEFFREY: But that just rolls off your tongue as if it's so 14:29 natural, but I think it's fascinating that throughout 14:32 Christian history, Protestant history, that first beast that 14:36 we talked about in our last discussion, pretty, 14:39 the consensus is pretty strong, pretty unanimous. 14:42 I'm on Protestants. 14:43 That beast is the medieval church, the Roman state power, 14:48 but this second beast... 14:51 >>JAMES: Not so sure. 14:52 >>JEFFREY: Not so sure. 14:53 Through the centuries, and it wasn't until, you know, the 14:56 mid-1800s, 1851 where a young guy by the name of JN Andrews 15:03 wrote an article as he was looking at the prophecy, as he 15:07 was studying was previous Protestant, Baptist, and 15:10 Methodist and Presbyterian scholars had written, and they 15:13 were all poking in the direction, they were saying, 15:16 wait a second, it can't be the papal system, because that's 15:19 the first beast, but there's some sort of relation here, 15:23 some sort of passing of the baton, so to speak, and so 15:26 they were thinking, maybe it has something to do with the 15:28 Protestant version of Christianity, literally. 15:31 >>TY: So, they were onto it. 15:33 >>JEFFREY: They were onto it. 15:34 And JN Andrews, 1951, writes an article and he says, it's 15:39 the United States of America, and that's the first time in 15:42 history where that rolled off somebody's tongue like it did 15:45 yours just so naturally, and I think, I'd like to revisit 15:48 that to realize how, I want the wow factor back, you know? 15:52 Like, whoa, that's heavy, that's very heavy. 15:55 >>DAVID: And here's a very important point, with regards 15:57 to prophecy, we've discussed this before in terms of 15:59 Daniel's book was sealed. 16:01 Well, why was it sealed? 16:02 He didn't have the historical perspective to see Babylon, 16:05 Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome. 16:07 You couldn't have written that the United States was the 16:09 lamb-like beast of Revelation 13 in 1776. 16:14 >>TY: No, there's no way. 16:15 >>DAVID: You just wouldn't have had that, but by the time 16:18 you get, 1851, you've got, you know, 1776 is when the United 16:22 States declares independence, you're 70ish years in and 16:27 you're looking around and knowledge is increasing, to 16:32 use Daniel's term. 16:33 You're like, whoa, we're in that period. 16:36 Now, let me throw in... 16:37 >>JEFFREY: Another thing, within a generation, because 16:40 Jefferson, what, you know, early 1800s, he's still alive. 16:43 So, JN Andrews writing, connecting the dots, could've 16:47 been an acquaintance of somebody who was contemporary 16:50 to Thomas Jefferson. 16:53 I think that's amazing. 16:54 >>JAMES: You know what's amazing, though, too, is, oh. 16:55 >>DAVID: Let me just drop one more identifying mark. 16:57 Hold on, you've got what you were gonna say? 16:58 >>JAMES: It's the same thing, probably. 16:59 >>DAVID: The coming up. 17:00 >>JAMES: No, you get that and I'll get another one. 17:02 >>DAVID: Okay, so in the text here, Revelation 13:11 says, I 17:04 saw another beast coming up. 17:06 We all think here, you've got King James, most of us have 17:09 New King James. 17:10 The word here, the word coming up here is grew up. 17:14 It's to sprout. 17:15 >>JEFFREY: Like a plant. 17:16 >>DAVID: It's to sprout. 17:17 So, this is not a, this is not the old world beast, lion, 17:23 bear, leopard, conquer and devouring, one taking over the 17:27 other. 17:27 This is growth, it's new. 17:29 It's sprouting, it's almost quietly coming up. 17:33 Here again, we have yet another identifier. 17:37 We're not looking for a nation that's gonna come and conquer 17:39 a previously occupied geographical, no. 17:42 No, this is coming up, sprouting up. 17:44 That's mine, what were you gonna say? 17:45 >>JAMES: Well, the other one is in verse 12, it says, and 17:47 then he exercises all the power of the first beast 17:51 before him and causes the earth and them that dwell 17:54 there to worship the first beast. 17:55 This is a power that has universal military might. 17:59 Now, when you look at this, in relation to the US in 18:02 prophecy, you realize that, from the beginning, like David 18:06 said, this power developed gradually and slowly. 18:10 The United States was fighting for its independence in 1776 18:15 and was still struggling with that in 1812. 18:17 It was not a world power. 18:19 >>DAVID: Many people thought it wouldn't even survive. 18:22 >>JAMES: Right, and even into the 19th century, there's this 18:24 World War II and the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and all of a 18:27 sudden, now, we're living in a time where this prophecy, it's 18:32 obvious. 18:33 >>DAVID: You have to have a power that could be a coercive 18:36 influence on the earth. 18:38 >>JAMES: The United States has more military bases around the 18:42 world than any other power and just insists on having them. 18:44 >>DAVID: You probably know more about this than I do, 18:47 Jeffrey, but post-World War II, that war is where you have 18:50 the real rise, post-World War I, into World War II, and then 18:53 post World War II, that's where the United States 18:54 becomes the military monster that it is. 18:58 It was competition, is it England? 19:01 >>JAMES: It was the fall of communism in 1989-1990 that 19:05 allowed the United States to become the sole world 19:08 superpower. 19:09 Sole world superpower. 19:10 >>JEFFREY: We jumped there, I wanted to go back... 19:13 >>JAMES: Which is interesting 'cause it's the fall of 19:14 atheism. 19:15 Just think about that, that's in this prophecy, the deadly 19:16 wound was healed. 19:17 The wound's inflicted, the deadly wound is healed. 19:19 The wound was inflicted by atheism. 19:21 The wound being healed... 19:23 >>TY: Or by atheist France. 19:24 >>JAMES: Yeah, the wound being healed... 19:27 >>JEFFREY: You're identifying communism as a system 19:28 representative of atheism. 19:29 >>JAMES: Yes, suggests the decline of that power and the 19:32 rise of this next one. 19:33 Okay. 19:35 >>JEFFREY: I was just gonna say that, in the lamb-like, 19:36 'cause we just said, oh, lamb-like, Christian, America, 19:39 but I wanted to read some of the founding documents really 19:42 quick, just to show that when the students identified two 19:46 horns like a lamb, okay, system of governmental power, 19:51 but there's two, and they started to think, wait a 19:53 second, what is the foundation of this United States of 19:57 America? 19:58 And they identified two primary principles, right, 20:02 republicanism and Protestantism, freedom from a 20:05 king, freedom from a pope, right, the two primary 20:09 principles. 20:10 And in the founding documents, as I was reading this, I'm 20:14 reading the founding documents trying to identify, do I see 20:18 anything Christian-ish, Christ-ish here? 20:20 Anything Jesus would say? 20:22 Lamb-like, and let me just read the Declaration of 20:24 Independence, which I think is just glorious. 20:28 >>TY: Just makes my heart race with excitement, these words. 20:31 >>JEFFREY: We hold these truths to be self-evident, 20:34 that all men are created equal, that they are endowed 20:37 by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among 20:41 these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. 20:45 That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted 20:50 among Men, and this is the point that I wanna make, 20:51 deriving their just powers from the consent of the 20:56 governed. 20:58 We've been contrasting through this whole study of Revelation 21:03 these two powers, these two systems, right? 21:07 God and Satan. 21:10 Satan using coercion and brutality and so forth and so 21:13 forth, and Christ using an entirely different approach, 21:17 and this idea of deriving their just powers from the 21:20 consent of the governed, that is so lamb-like 21:23 >>TY: That's so powerful. 21:24 >>JEFFREY: That is so lamb-like. 21:26 >>TY: And that's what I meant, by the way, earlier, when I 21:28 said, is there something that this power invented on a 21:33 governmental level? 21:35 Is there a new system that is brought to the world as a kind 21:39 of experiment, and this is precisely it? 21:42 It's a method of governance that is by the consent of the 21:45 governed, it is a method of governance that does not 21:49 involve monarchical power, that doesn't involve papal 21:53 power. 21:54 >>JEFFREY: And so, in addition to that, when the Declaration 21:58 of Independence is drafted and when we finally secede from 22:03 Britain, there is still something that needs to be 22:07 settled because this new country cannot operate without 22:10 centralized power and therefore, there needs to be 22:15 power invested in the central, you know, in the government, 22:19 and so, the Constitution, and what I love about the first 22:23 amendment, so, now, we're in 1791, I'll just read this and 22:26 you guys can chime in about the lamb-likeness. 22:30 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of 22:34 religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or 22:39 abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or 22:42 the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to 22:46 petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 22:49 >>TY: Don't you love that? 22:50 >>JEFFREY: So, it's basically the gospel. 22:51 That's the great controversy between good and evil and the 22:53 principles of the gospel being articulated. 22:58 >>TY: So, you could say it this way, that the Declaration 23:01 of Independence, the part that you've read anyway, and the 23:04 Constitution of the United States of America, is the 23:08 gospel of Christ in the form of governing documents. 23:13 Now, not in totality, and there's more to the gospel 23:17 than this, but at the core of the gospel is basically 23:20 non-coercive love. 23:22 At the core of the gospel is the God of the universe only 23:27 desires the service and worship that is born of free 23:33 hearts that love him based on the worthiness of his 23:37 character so that coercion is diametrically opposed to the 23:41 character of God. 23:42 So, this system that is brought to view here, the 23:45 United States of America, is bringing into the world, it's 23:49 actually the fruition of what Jesus and the apostles 23:54 started. 23:55 Down through history, it's developing, it's going 23:58 underground, it's resurfacing now, it's resurfacing in the 24:02 form of a free people that are governed by consent. 24:09 So, we've gotta take a break, but when we come back, we'll 24:13 continue moving through this remarkable passage that points 24:18 to the United States in bible prophecy. 24:21 [Music] 24:33 >>The bible is a big book. 24:35 It's composed of 66 smaller books, written by more than 40 24:40 different authors. 24:42 It's easy to get bogged down in all the genealogies, 24:45 ancient history and intersecting characters with 24:48 unpronounceable names. 24:50 And yet, the bible is full of rich and powerful truths that 24:55 all of us need to understand. 24:58 Wouldn't you love to have an experienced tour guide take 25:01 you on a step-by-step journey through some of the most vital 25:04 and beautiful truths contained in the bible? 25:07 Well, now, it's here. 25:09 It's called Truth Link. 25:11 Truth Link is a groundbreaking new series of easy to 25:16 understand bible study guides that thousands of people 25:20 around the world are raving about. 25:22 Why all the excitement? 25:24 Because Truth Link systematically unfolds 27 life 25:29 transforming biblical topics, but not as a list of dry 25:34 theological facts. 25:36 Rather, Truth Link takes you on an engaging, biblical 25:41 expedition, demonstrating how every truth of scripture 25:45 reveals some facet of God's beautiful character. 25:50 Truth Link isn't just information, it's a spiritual 25:54 journey that will radically impact your life. 25:57 We would really love for you to have these bible study 26:01 guides because we know they will be a blessing to you. 26:05 You can get them by visiting truthlink.org or by calling 26:11 541-988-3333. 26:18 [Music] 26:25 >>TY: What we've been discovering here in Revelation 26:26 13 is nothing short of astounding. 26:29 If this passage actually foretold the rise of the 26:36 United States of America as a system, then what might it 26:42 also say to us about the future of this power? 26:46 So, if it's telling us, hey, there's gonna be this power 26:50 that's going to arise in human history that's lamb-like in 26:53 its governing principles, which we identified, does the 26:57 passage go on and say, but wait a minute, it's not gonna be good 27:01 forever, it's not going to be lamb-like forever, well, the 27:05 passage actually says, in verse 11, then I saw another 27:08 beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns 27:11 like a lamb, but then it says, and spoke like a dragon. 27:16 Now, we know the dragon is traceable to the devil, 27:20 ultimately, and to the Roman Empire, secondarily, so. 27:25 >>JEFFREY: I was gonna say that those two images, lamb 27:27 and dragon, in the same sentence? 27:29 >>DAVID: It's the only text in all of scripture that has that 27:32 juxtaposition. 27:33 >>JEFFREY: Lamb and dragon in the same sentence. 27:35 That is... 27:37 >>JAMES: It's amazing, it's describing the conflict, I 27:41 think, that this country's gone through from the very 27:43 beginning. 27:44 From the very beginning, you've got these principles 27:45 that are written into our Constitution, you've got these 27:47 amendments to the Constitution, and then you've 27:48 got these acts, these manifestations of dragon-like 27:53 principles that I think the text is telling us are gonna 27:55 get more and more intense because the verse, that's one 27:58 verse of many verses that describes this power, so, it's 28:02 gonna get more and more intense, but even from the 28:03 establishment of this great nation, there were little 28:08 manifestations, dragon-like manifestations that came out. 28:11 >>TY: Yeah, even in the beginning phases, the fact is 28:13 that we're all very happy to be a part of a governing 28:19 system based on the kinds of principles that Jeffrey read 28:24 to us in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution 28:27 of the United States of America. 28:28 It's incredible to be a part of a system that is based on 28:32 freedom. 28:33 But the fact is that, simultaneously, there's some 28:37 spiritual and moral dissonance because, blind spots, exactly. 28:43 You have founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson himself, who 28:47 penned these incredible words, who owned slaves. 28:54 >>DAVID: That's right. 28:55 >>TY: Who owned slaves. 28:57 So, we need to understand that this system is based on good 29:05 principles, and simultaneously, there are 29:08 those who are founding the nation who are violating the 29:10 very principles that they're articulating because they have 29:13 blind spots, I guess that would be a kind way to say it. 29:16 >>DAVID: And not only in terms of slavery, which was a 29:18 massive blind spot, to put it nicely, but you have the 29:23 treatment of the indigenous peoples of this land. 29:26 Absolutely horrific, broken treaty after broken treaty and 29:29 mistreatment after mistreatment and tragically, 29:33 this was being done largely, almost entirely by 29:38 Protestants. 29:39 In other words, these are people that have fled from the 29:43 flood of the old world, have come to the new world, and 29:45 they land, but they're still, to use Jeffrey's term, the 29:48 residue, that sticky residue of the old way of doing 29:51 things, you think of Luther, just use a simple example 29:54 here. 29:55 We're approaching the 500th year anniversary of Luther's 29:59 protest against the medieval church, right? 30:02 October 31st 1517, here we are, 2016. 30:06 So, we're just on the verge of that 500 years. 30:08 Luther himself believed in a state church. 30:12 That's why they are called the magisterial reformers. 30:15 They believed in a Christian magistrate. 30:19 The idea, this idea that you will have a government without 30:23 a king, the ruled and the rule, no, no, no, we don't 30:27 have peasants and lords, we now have citizens that are 30:31 governed only by their own consent and now we're gonna 30:34 have, not only that but no pope. 30:38 There is no religious authority, whether it's a pope 30:40 or a Christian magistrate, this was wild. 30:42 It was called, the language of the day was the American 30:45 experiment. 30:48 Can this work? 30:50 And... 30:51 >>TY: Can people self-govern? 30:53 >>DAVID: The idea was, this is absurd. 30:54 It was considered absurd, and frankly, it's miraculous. 30:58 If you go back and look at the history, and I'm not, Jeffrey 31:00 is more the historian when it comes to American history than 31:03 I am, but it's a miracle, for example, the Revolutionary 31:07 war, the United States could've won that war in the 31:09 way that they did with the minutemen and all of that. 31:12 There's a providence over it. 31:15 There was a providence over it. 31:17 Then, you get to the emergence of, it wasn't just like some, 31:21 okay, I live in Australia. 31:22 Australia's a beautiful country. 31:24 It's roughly the size of the United States of America. 31:27 >>JAMES: Continental United States. 31:28 >>DAVID: Yeah, without Alaska. 31:29 It's roughly the size of the lower 48. 31:31 But you could not stick 330 million people in Australia. 31:33 No way. 31:35 That's the population of the United States today. 31:37 You do not have the resources. 31:39 When people landed here, there are forests, there are oil 31:42 fields, there are minerals to be mined, the richness of this 31:47 country, in terms of its natural resources, was 31:49 phenomenal. 31:51 It's what enabled it to become this global military economic 31:55 power. 31:56 If they had found Australia, that would've been circuitous 31:58 for them to have found Australia, you do not end up 32:01 with the United States of America, that's not a knock on 32:03 Australia. 32:04 >>JEFFREY: Its own limitations and resources limit its power. 32:06 >>DAVID: The middle of Australia, there's nothing 32:08 there. 32:08 >>TY: Uninhabitable. 32:10 >>DAVID: I mean, I've driven it, there is just nothing 32:10 there. 32:12 Not these big forests and beautiful mountains and clear 32:13 flowing rivers, you don't have it. 32:15 So, when you see the providence of God all over 32:19 this, but that doesn't mean, and as Ty was bringing out, 32:23 that there were not some major oversights and some breaches 32:27 of the very principles that they themselves advocated. 32:30 Whether it's with slavery, whether it's with, even 32:32 suffrage, women voting. 32:34 That doesn't come around until, help me out here, you 32:37 might know, like 1900s, mid, Wyoming, I know, the state 32:40 that I'm from, was the first ever state that allowed the 32:42 voting of women. 32:43 But that's late into the game. 32:46 Then, you have the treatment of the Native peoples. 32:48 It's just, they got the principles right, but the 32:51 application didn't follow immediately. 32:53 >>JEFFREY: You know, too, the other thing was, even these 32:54 early students, even in the wars, the early wars, Spanish, 32:59 American, when America was becoming an empire, now taking 33:03 possession of foreign lands, colonizing other lands like 33:08 the Philippines. 33:09 We fully colonized the Philippines. 33:11 And so, this is so old world mentality being now adopted by 33:17 the lamb-like beast. 33:19 So, it's a total... 33:20 >>JAMES: Well, it's a perfect confirmation of the verse, in 33:22 a sense. 33:24 And I don't think that I've ever seen it this way before 33:26 because I've always thought, we'll speak like a dragon, 33:28 we'll speak like a dragon, that's somewhere in the 33:30 future, that's somewhere in the future, but the verse 33:31 indicates actually that they could be simultaneous and that 33:36 what we're looking at in the future in the following verses 33:38 is the imbalance, is the neglect and perhaps the 33:44 abandonment of the lamb-like principles and the total focus 33:48 on speaking like a dragon. 33:49 However... 33:50 >>TY: So, you're saying they're running simultaneous. 33:51 >>JAMES: Yeah, they're running, because when we look 33:53 at the history, they actually do run simultaneously. 33:55 >>DAVID: I think that's closer to it. 33:56 >>JAMES: And then, as we move on, one overbears the other, 34:00 and it's as if God is saying, I'm going to give an 34:01 opportunity for these principles to be seen in 34:03 government, just to get a peek and see how they operate and 34:05 to see what a blessing they are, but then, I'm gonna go 34:08 ahead and allow this to return to this dominant prince who's 34:13 gonna make full manifest his character in the end of time 34:15 and then, we're gonna end all this. 34:17 >>DAVID: So, dominant prince, you lost me there. 34:19 >>JAMES: The prince of this world. 34:20 The dragon. 34:21 >>TY: So, when it says in verse 11 that he had two horns 34:25 like a lamb and spoke like a dragon, the word spoke is 34:30 connected with verse 12, the word authority, he exercises 34:34 authority, which is connected with the word causes, he 34:39 causes. 34:40 So, essentially, what's happening here, it's not just 34:43 speaking in the sense of uttering words, how does a 34:46 nation speak? 34:47 Well, a nation speaks in the form of its legislation. 34:51 So, this is essentially saying that the United States of 34:54 America, founded on principles of Republicanism and 34:57 Protestantism, principles of freedom, of religion and 35:01 conscious liberty, that power will simultaneously and 35:07 ultimately legislate against the founding principles of the 35:15 documents that gave us this American experiment. 35:20 It's amazing that that's in the bible. 35:24 >>JAMES: This isn't Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, 35:26 this isn't the Dark Ages, this isn't some future, this, we're 35:30 living right now in this. 35:31 We're looking at our history, our recent history, our 35:35 present history and we're predicting our future history 35:38 in the context of Revelation 13, in the context of bible 35:42 prophecy. 35:43 >>DAVID: There is such a feeling of what has been 35:45 described as American exceptionalism among 35:48 Protestant Christianity, you know, God bless America, God 35:51 has raised up America for purposes, you know, you wonder 35:56 sometimes what purposes people think that is, but this is a 35:59 slight side conversation, but some believe that God raised 36:02 up the United States, basically for the express 36:05 purpose of protecting Israel, like, national Israel over 36:08 there. 36:10 My point is this, I wish that people who believe in this 36:13 version of the sort of providential opening, 'cause 36:16 there's some truth to it. 36:18 There's some truth to it, but it's become a version of 36:21 American exceptionalism in which there's this giant blind 36:24 spot, hello, not only to our history, but increasingly, to 36:30 our present. 36:31 And, I'm telling you right now, as an American, this is 36:35 not a political statement. 36:37 There are things that we are doing, as a country. 36:40 I say, we, there are things that the nation that I live 36:43 in, of which I am a citizen, that are happening at a 36:45 governmental level, political level, that I find absolutely 36:49 terrifying, shuddering. 36:52 >>TY: Yeah, you're simultaneously proud and 36:57 embarrassed. 36:57 >>DAVID: And concerned. 36:59 >>JEFFREY: 'Cause you're proud of what it's founded on, 37:00 you're proud of the founding principles. 37:02 >>DAVID: But the application has been... 37:04 >>TY: Would you say you're patriotic? 37:05 I would say I'm patriotic if patriotic means to the 37:10 principles. 37:11 I would say that your patriotism isn't tested by any 37:17 candidate or party, though. 37:18 You can be a loyal America and reject the political parties 37:25 that are warring with one another, but be loyal to the 37:27 principles of the founding documents. 37:29 >>JEFFREY: I actually think being loyal to the principles 37:34 of the founding documents necessitates you to have a 37:39 dissenting voice when those principles are violated. 37:43 Otherwise, we're just, what are you? 37:45 >>DAVID: And we should say that we are not the only 37:47 people that are that way. 37:49 There are lots of people in the United States right now 37:51 that are raising the red flag of hey, that whole thing about 37:55 the Constitution and what about that? 37:59 And you know, Jeffrey, again, you would know more, in the 38:04 context of the interpretation of the Constitution, you have 38:08 different schools of interpretation. 38:10 So, some say, no, it's exactly what they said. 38:12 In the same way, you have schools of interpretation of 38:14 scripture. 38:15 It's an ancient document. 38:16 What did they mean and how are those ancient principles 38:20 applied today? 38:21 But at the core of it, the kernel, the nucleus of it, was 38:24 freedom, which is what your point about how it's the 38:27 gospel in a governmental system, noncoersive love, 38:32 voluntary loyalty to a system, the consent of the governed, 38:37 and every place where that freedom and that liberty is 38:41 being impinged upon by the government. 38:44 You know, like, our biggest fear, you know, we have met 38:47 the enemy, was that Kennedy? 38:48 Maybe not, and... 38:49 >>TY: We've met the enemy and it's us. 38:53 >>DAVID: We are him. 38:54 The greatest threat to America right now, to the principles 38:59 of America, is America. 39:02 >>TY: Yeah, that's right. 39:03 We have to take a break, but there's some pretty heavy 39:06 stuff that continues on. 39:07 We have coming up here, this thing called the image to the 39:13 beast, it'll be interesting to talk about that. 39:15 >>JAMES: And the mark of the beast. 39:16 >>TY: Let's just take a break and we'll come right back. 39:19 [Music] 39:30 Announcer: Truth is not merely a list of theological 39:33 facts, but rather the revelation of God's beautiful 39:35 love in Jesus Christ. 39:37 Truth Link is a series of bible study guides that 39:40 magnify God's love as the center of every bible 39:44 doctrine. 39:45 To receive your free copy of lesson one, call 877-585-1111 39:51 or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, 39:56 Jasper, Oregon, 97438. 39:59 Once again, to receive your free copy of Truth Link lesson 40:03 one, call 877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers, 40:09 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon, 97438. 40:16 [Music] 40:23 >>TY: You guys, what we've identified here in Revelation 40:26 13, verses 11 and 12 and onward, identifying the United 40:31 States in bible prophecy, this is phenomenal. 40:34 Once you see this, you can't unsee it. 40:36 Once you know this, you can't unknow it. 40:39 This bears testimony to the inspiration of scripture, this 40:43 tells us, wow, if that was written in advance, that gives 40:48 testimony to the fact that this is an inspired word. 40:52 This is an inspired document, yeah. 40:53 And secondly, it bears testimony to the fact that God 40:58 is active in human history. 41:00 >>JEFFREY: I was just about to say that, that God is present 41:02 and relevant in scriptures relevant now. 41:05 >>TY: But the thing is, is this freedom experiment, 41:07 according to the text, is temporary, it's going to wind 41:12 down. 41:13 We can expect, if this passage foretells the United States of 41:17 America, it's telling us that eventually, the principles of 41:20 freedom will be violated through its legislation system 41:26 and this experiment is short-lived. 41:29 It's not gonna go on forever and ever and ever, and we're 41:31 starting to hear, we're starting to hear dragon-like 41:37 rhetoric, aren't we? 41:39 It's coming through in the political system, it's coming 41:41 through. 41:42 >>JAMES: Well, it's getting louder and louder and louder. 41:44 >>TY: Yeah, anything that comes from the American 41:45 political system, would this be an exaggeration? 41:48 Anything coming from the American political system that 41:51 encroaches upon freedom is tending in the direction of 41:57 the dragon-like principles. 41:59 >>JEFFREY: Coercion is the main issue. 42:02 The main issue is coercion. 42:04 The eroding of freedom and why? 42:05 Because the gospel principle is the principle of freedom. 42:10 >>TY: Now, there's another way the passage says this. 42:11 >>JEFFREY: If you know the truth, the truth shall set you 42:13 free. 42:14 >>TY: It says, in verse 11, that the lamb-like power will 42:16 speak like a dragon, it says it'll exercise authority, it 42:19 says it will cause those who dwell on the earth to worship 42:24 the first beast. 42:25 Now, we have to pause and remember, who's the first 42:26 beast? 42:27 Well, that's the sea beast. 42:29 That's the one in chapter 13, verses 1-10 that's being dealt 42:33 with. 42:34 So, essentially, this is saying that the United States 42:37 of America, which was founded on no king, no pope, that 42:41 pulled away from papal dominance, will gradually 42:46 begin to return to papal principles and papal loyalty, 42:53 right? 42:54 Isn't that what this is telling us? 42:56 It'll make an image. 42:57 >>JAMES: It will reflect that same system. 42:59 >>TY: It says in verse, where is it? 43:01 In verse 14, it says that, it says that the beast that comes 43:05 up out of the earth will make an image to the beast, that 43:09 is, it will institute a governmental system at some 43:12 point that reflects the way the papacy, the medieval 43:16 church governed down through the dark ages. 43:18 >>JAMES: And this is an important point, because 43:19 sometimes, when people read that image, they think, it's 43:21 gonna be some kind of image, like an image that they're 43:23 gonna set up in the plane of Durer, like an image that you, 43:26 no, it's a reflection. 43:28 It's like, when you look in the mirror and you see an 43:29 image of yourself. 43:31 This power is going to image, or reflect, the same 43:34 principles that that power has. 43:36 >>TY: And what was it? 43:37 What, how did the medieval church govern? 43:40 It was by a union of church and state. 43:43 >>JAMES: Which is why it says that it has these two 43:45 lamb-like horns, but then it speaks like a dragon. 43:48 >>TY: So, we can expect the United States of America to 43:50 join church and state, is that what we're saying? 43:54 >>JAMES: Impudiate the principles of the 43:55 constitution. 43:57 >>DAVID: Correct, so that these things that Jeffrey read 43:58 will be in, they'll be in print, you know, you can't 44:02 unwrite history, the ink is dry, but it won't be in 44:05 practice, you're onto it. 44:06 That was exactly what I was gonna say, well done. 44:08 So, we have verse 12, causes the earth, verse 14, and 44:13 deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which 44:14 he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling 44:16 those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast 44:18 who was wounded by the sword and lived. 44:20 Verse 15, he was granted power to give breath to the image of 44:23 the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak 44:26 and cause as many who would not worship the image of the 44:29 beast should be killed. 44:30 So, this is not just like, hey, we advise you to worship, 44:33 this is like, do it or else. 44:34 You've talked about the conquistadors coming to was it 44:36 Peru? 44:38 Sword, crucifix, do as we say, or else. 44:43 Verse 16, he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, 44:47 free and slaved, to receive a mark on the right hand. 44:49 >>TY: Translation, this is foretelling a resurgence of 44:53 persecution in the new world. 44:55 >>JEFFREY: Coercion, yeah. 44:57 >>TY: Persecution, coercion. 44:58 >>JEFFREY: Which is mirroring what took place with the 45:02 previous beast. 45:03 >>DAVID: And it is interesting, 'cause it's in 45:05 this context that the whole mark of the beast thing comes 45:07 up. 45:08 There's a lot of, you know, discussion and what is the 45:10 mark of the beast? 45:11 And for some, it's like a mystical tattoo or some 45:13 computer chip or something, but it's in this context of 45:16 coercion by the second beast the United States who's now 45:20 acting, behaving, and looking a whole lot like that first 45:23 beast, that period through the medieval period, that church 45:27 of the medieval period, verse 17, and that no one may buy or 45:30 sell except the one who has the mark of the beast or the 45:34 number of his name, last verse here, hear his wisdom, let 45:36 anyone who has understanding calculate the number of the 45:38 beast, it is the number of a man, his number is 666. 45:42 >>JAMES: David, one phrase that you missed there in verse 45:43 17 that I really wanted to highlight, that's why I 45:46 noticed it, and no man might buy or sell save he that have 45:50 the mark of the beast or the name of the beast. 45:53 The name of the beast speaks to the characteristics of the 45:56 beast and why this is important is because, what 45:57 we've outlined here is that the beast is using force. 46:01 The beast is hypocritical, lamb-like principles but 46:03 speaks like a dragon. 46:05 The beast is filled with deception, miracles, deceiving 46:09 those. 46:10 The beast is into control. 46:11 All of these are principles of the character of the beast and 46:15 we can think that we're in the right church, we're in the 46:17 right denomination, we're believing the right doctrines, 46:19 the right truths, but if we're developing principles of 46:22 control and deception and force, if we're developing the 46:26 characteristics of the beast, we're gonna go along... 46:29 >>TY: In any of our relationships. 46:30 >>JAMES: Yes. 46:31 >>DAVID: And that's a great point. 46:32 >>JAMES: We are gonna go along with the system. 46:34 Once the system comes together, we're gonna go along 46:36 with the system because we've been developing his 46:38 principles. 46:39 >>TY: And what if your whole way of processing reality is 46:45 based on self-preservation? 46:48 When it comes down to no man can buy or sell, which is 46:51 economic pressure, this is economic sanctions, nation to 46:55 nation, economic boycott within a nation. 46:59 If there are restrictions on commerce, that's a heavy 47:02 pressure to be placed on. 47:04 If self-preservation is the core of your operating 47:09 system... 47:10 >>JEFFREY: Which it is for most people, naturally. 47:12 >>TY: Including us around this table, the gospel liberates us 47:14 from it. 47:16 >>JAMES: And we love not our lives unto the death. 47:17 >>DAVID: I was just gonna, man, we got this thing going 47:19 on. 47:20 >>TY: So, if self-preservation is the core of our operating 47:24 system as human beings, then when you come under this 47:28 pressure, you're gonna go along with the system that 47:32 preserves you. 47:33 Who is it that said that if you, what is it? 47:37 If you sacrifice freedom for security, you'll have neither. 47:42 >>JAMES: We need to download the newest operating system. 47:46 Download, download from heaven. 47:49 The newest operating system. 47:51 >>JEFFREY: He's like spelling it out. 47:52 Download. 47:54 From up there. 47:56 >>TY: So, do you see what I'm saying? 47:58 The point here is really that we need to put in our hearts 48:07 the principle of non-coercive love, in all our 48:10 relationships. 48:11 >>DAVID: Ty, I've gotta tell you something. 48:13 One of the things that I love that you say, we all have 48:14 language that becomes ours and we own it and we use it and it 48:18 just comes out of our mouths very quickly and easily. 48:20 There's a phrase that you say with regularity that I 48:23 absolutely love and it's relational integrity. 48:26 Okay, so you say that a lot, what does that mean? 48:31 >>TY: Relational integrity is a phrase that I started using 48:36 because the word love has been so hijacked in society to mean 48:41 kind of a shallow, sentimental emotionalism, you know, it's 48:47 in pop culture, most songs are love songs, I love peanut 48:51 butter and jelly, I love this woman, but I don't love her 48:53 anymore because here's another woman and there's relational 48:57 violation. 48:58 But that's all called love. 49:00 And so, I thought, you know what? 49:01 The word love, what does it mean when the bible says the 49:05 word love? 49:06 Well, when the bible uses the word love, it means 49:08 others-centeredness, it means relational integrity. 49:12 It means I don't violate you to preserve or serve myself. 49:16 So, relational integrity is just my way of describing what 49:19 the bible calls love. 49:21 >>DAVID: So, what you are saying here is that these 49:23 principles, this is not just something that is happening on 49:25 a national level, a governmental level, a 49:27 political level. 49:29 These principles, that's the name of the beast thing that 49:31 you're talking about, they can infiltrate and infect our own 49:35 relationships with other people. 49:37 We can manipulate a situation, we can be coercive, we can be 49:40 deceptive, we can tell half-truths, we can, all the 49:43 while, thinking, how can I get the upper hand in this 49:46 marriage, in this neighborly relationship, in my home? 49:50 That's the way that we do, that's the way that we do 49:54 life. 49:55 It's just natural. 49:56 I just read recently that children learn, this is all 49:58 over the world, all over the world. 50:00 I'm reading a book right now called the mother tongue by 50:02 Bill Bryson and he says many fascinating things and one of 50:04 the things he says in there is that in every culture, 50:06 children learn to say no quicker than yes. 50:12 Every culture, that's who we are, no, hey, you, no. 50:17 There's not a natural affability, cooperation, hey, 50:24 can we, it's me, and you're doing something, no, no. 50:28 The whole issue of selfishness, it's a, somebody 50:30 talked about Romans 8 a while back, the carnality, the.... 50:35 >>TY: The human heart has enmity against God. 50:37 >>DAVID: Enmity against God, Romans 8:7. 50:38 So, if we don't have the gospel, if we don't download 50:42 the gospel operating system, we will go along with this, 50:48 this is the religion of human nature. 50:50 >>TY: Ideologically, we don't agree with it, but if 50:53 relationally and emotionally we go along with it, we'll 50:57 violate our intellectual opinions. 51:01 To save ourselves... 51:03 >>DAVID: Are you ready for this? 51:05 Though all men will deny you, not me. 51:10 See, he's intellectually saying, I will lay down myself 51:13 for you, but when the rubber met the road, uh, yeah, I'm 51:16 out. 51:18 >>TY: That's right. 51:19 >>JAMES: You know, it's really interesting because when you 51:21 take this analogy a little bit further with computers, you 51:24 know, you not only have to keep your computer operating 51:27 system updated, 'cause you got fixes, fixes, fixes, fixes. 51:31 >>TY: You got a lot of fixes if you have a PC, not as many 51:33 if you have an Apple. 51:34 >>JAMES: But at some point, you may have to trade out your 51:37 equipment for another piece of equipment in order to go a 51:41 little further with the fixes and the operating system that 51:44 is progressing. 51:45 In other words, the path of the just is a shining light 51:48 that shines more and more into the perfect day. 51:50 And God can only show us so much, and as we've looked it, 51:52 just to summarize, we've looked at bible prophecies, 51:55 we've looked at the book of Revelation, we've been on this 51:57 progression, and we went into this dark period, this dark 52:00 pit, and we came out of this pit and then, God brought us 52:04 back to the track of progression, the light of 52:06 progression. 52:07 And it's as if we've been trading in these models, you 52:12 remember when we had our first $5,000 portable computer, 52:16 black and white, small little thing that weighed about 50 52:18 pounds, right? 52:19 >>TY: He's really old. 52:20 >>JEFFREY: Older than you, that was ages ago. 52:23 >>JAMES: We've traded in these models, and it's the same 52:25 thing with us, we have to look at the scripture, just like 52:27 when we looked at Revelation 13, we said, you know what, I 52:31 think those two principles are coexisting from the very 52:34 beginning. 52:35 I don't think the dragon-like principles just appear one 52:38 day. 52:39 We can actually trace them all the way back, we can actually 52:42 see, but the lamb-like principles were dominant. 52:46 They were dominant. 52:47 >>TY: They're gonna become less dominant. 52:48 >>JAMES: They're gonna become less dominant. 52:49 >>DAVID: You lost me on the computer thing. 52:52 >>JAMES: The point I'm making is... 52:53 >>DAVID: I think it's a good point, I just wanna understand 52:55 it. 52:56 >>JEFFREY: That was like the first thing he said. 52:58 >>JAMES: I'm cleaning out my office and I have two Macs in 53:00 there, old, old Macs. 53:03 >>TY: Oh, you gotta give those to me. 53:04 >>JAMES: They're just sitting there. 53:05 There's nothing I can do with those. 53:07 >>TY: You can give them to me. 53:08 >>JAMES: They're super old. 53:09 They can't take a new operating system, so when we 53:13 go back in history, there's a certain place in history where 53:16 we make a transition, we transition out of this mother 53:19 church. 53:20 Then, we transition out of this Protestant churches and 53:23 we transition into this advent movement, you see what I'm 53:25 saying? 53:26 We're making these transitions, yes, so we're not 53:28 just downloading, we're also upgrading, we're upgrading, 53:31 we're upgrading. 53:32 And what I'm saying, just to bring it to a conclusion, is 53:34 this, we have, for a long time, emphasized the idea that 53:39 the mark of the beast is all about, let's say, a day that 53:42 we worship. 53:43 But what we're talking about right now, we're upgrading 53:45 now. 53:47 We're downloading some bugs and fixes and we're realizing, 53:48 you know, it's about principles, it's about 53:50 character, it's about the way that we relate to people, 53:54 especially the people that we're closest to. 53:56 It's about the principles that make up the character of God 54:00 and the seal of God, or the principles that make up the 54:03 name or the character of the beast. 54:06 >>DAVID: I love all of that. 54:09 Something that I feel like I need to do, just for myself, 54:12 is to go back to Revelation 12 because we didn't really wrap 54:17 up 13-17, but it won't be difficult to do. 54:21 >>JAMES: 17 especially. 54:22 >>DAVID: Exactly. 54:23 That's the point I wanna get to is 17, but this will not be 54:25 difficult to do. 54:26 >>TY: Do it. 54:27 >>DAVID: Revelation 12:13, now, when the dragon saw that 54:30 he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who 54:32 gave birth to the male child, we've talked about that. 54:34 That's the persecution by the dragon of Christ, verse 14, 54:39 not of the dragon by Christ, but of Christ by the dragon. 54:44 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle that 54:46 she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where 54:48 she is nourished for a time, times and half, and time from 54:50 the presence of the serpent. 54:51 We've dealt with that, right? 54:52 Verse 15, so the serpent spewed water out of its mouth, 54:54 like a flood, after the woman, that he might cause him to be 54:56 carried away by the flood. 54:57 You've dealt with this, James. 54:59 Verse 16, but the earth helped the woman, and the earth 55:02 opened up its mouth and swallowed the flood which the 55:05 dragon has spewed out of its mouth. 55:06 Okay, so we've covered that territory, right? 55:08 But here's what I love, verse 17, which I don't think we've 55:11 dealt with. 55:12 The dragon was enraged with the woman and went to make war 55:15 with the rest of her offspring, who keep the 55:18 commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. 55:21 I'm gonna make one point and then I'm gonna let you guys 55:22 wrap it up. 55:23 The dragon makes war against the church of God, against the 55:27 people of God, against the remnants, God's people on 55:30 earth, and the means by which he makes war are these two 55:34 beasts. 55:35 That springs us into chapter 13. 55:38 The first beast, which is the medieval church, and the 55:41 second beast is going to be the United States, and it's 55:44 this confederacy of the whole world. 55:48 I just wanna make that point. 55:51 These two beasts don't just show up and rocket out of 55:53 nowhere. 55:54 It's like, hey, the dragon went to make war with God's 55:56 people and these are the means by which that war was made. 56:01 First beast, second beast. 56:03 >>TY: So, essentially, what we've discovered in Revelation 56:05 chapter 13 is that the sea beast, the first beast is the 56:12 medieval church and it operated by certain 56:15 principles, governing by certain principles. 56:18 The second beast comes into existence and operates by 56:22 principles of liberty and freedom, but eventually, what 56:25 we're going to see happen, I mean, the bible is 56:28 prophesying, it's saying, this is us. 56:31 Where it's headed is the United States of America will, 56:34 at some point, abandon the principles of freedom in favor 56:39 of reconstituting a system of religious coercion like the 56:44 first beast before it. 56:47 That's where we've landed. 56:49 [Music] |
Revised 2018-01-16