Participants:
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000406A
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00:00 [Music]
00:00 [Music] 00:10 [Music] 00:21 >>TY: Hey, guys, I wanna begin by asking you another 00:22 kind of impromptu question, what is the most incredible, 00:28 or I don't know, the most fun experience you've ever had in 00:34 nature. 00:36 Some experience where you encountered something in 00:38 nature where it just blew your mind, took you to a whole 00:43 different place, you were like, oh, this is amazing. 00:45 >>JEFFREY: Swimming with whale sharks off the coast of 00:48 Mexico. 00:49 >>TY: That's for you. 00:50 >>JEFFREY: Number one. 00:51 >>TY: Swimming with whale sharks off the coast... 00:53 >>JEFFREY: Beat that. 00:54 >>DAVID: Well, I don't know if I can beat that, but I will 00:56 say, for me, I don't' have one, but I'll give you one of 00:58 my favorites. 00:59 Seeing a pair of resplendent quetzals in the jungles of 01:02 Costa Rica. 01:03 >>JEFFREY: A what? 01:04 >>DAVID: Considered one of the most beautiful birds in the 01:06 world, resplendent quetzal, look it up. 01:09 Beat that. 01:10 >>JAMES: Hm. 01:11 >>TY: James? 01:12 >>JAMES: Going for a canoe ride down the river, it was 01:15 just awesome, beautiful. 01:16 >>DAVID: Which river? 01:17 >>JAMES: It was the inlet off the redwoods in California. 01:21 Yeah. 01:22 >>TY: Wow, wow, wow. 01:24 >>DAVID: So, obviously, this is a setup, Ty's gonna be 01:26 like, oh, that's nothing. 01:27 >>TY: That's nothing. 01:28 >>JEFFREY: I jumped into a volcano once. 01:31 >>JAMES: The dolphins on the coast of Hawaii, sorry to pop 01:34 that balloon. 01:35 >>TY: For me, and honestly, there's nothing, there's 01:37 another experience that comes close, but for me, the best 01:40 experience I've ever had in nature was swimming with about 01:43 60 dolphins off the coast of, I think it was Kawaii, and it 01:50 was amazing. 01:51 They were with me, I was with them, I guess you would say, 01:55 and they circled me when I tried to go the opposite 01:58 direction as if to say, hey, we're going this way, come on, 02:01 this is the way we're going. 02:02 It was amazing. 02:03 It was an amazing experience. 02:04 >>DAVID: I've only ever swum with about 2,000 dolphins. 02:07 >>TY: Is that true? 02:08 >>DAVID: Off the coast of New Zealand, it's absolutely true, 02:10 I've done it many times. 02:11 True story. 02:12 >>TY: I've only done it once. 02:13 >>JEFFREY: That kinda backfired on you, Ty. 02:15 >>JAMES: Ty didn't even know if they were dolphins or 02:17 sharks when he jumped in. 02:19 >>DAVID: Are you serious? 02:20 >>TY: I didn't know, but very quickly, I discovered they 02:23 were dolphins. 02:24 >>DAVID: A shark's tail goes like this, a shark's tail is 02:27 oriented vertically, so when their dorsal fin, it moves 02:30 side to side. 02:31 Dolphins, their tail is oriented horizontally, so they 02:35 move up and down. 02:36 >>TY: Yeah, it was just very brief though. 02:39 >>JAMES: Isn't the tail just a little bit different, too? 02:41 >>DAVID: He didn't see the dolphin tail. 02:43 >>JAMES: I mean the fin. 02:45 >>DAVID: Yeah, the fin is a slightly different shape, but 02:46 when you're out paddling in the water... 02:47 >>JEFFREY: I think he was going somewhere or something. 02:51 >>TY: I was going somewhere with it. 02:52 And where I was going with it is we have been looking at the 02:56 book of Revelation, we've come to chapter 12, we've gotten 02:59 through verse 6, and now, the church of God is in the 03:04 wilderness, but the experience that they're having in the 03:06 wilderness is not a positive one. 03:08 It's a positive experience in that it's a refuge for them, 03:13 but it's a negative experience in that they are pressed into 03:18 the wilderness, forced into the wilderness because they're 03:22 under persecution. 03:23 So, let's just look at chapter 12 of Revelation. 03:25 >>DAVID: So, the tie in is, I'm missing the tie in. 03:27 >>JEFFREY: The wilderness. 03:28 >>TY: Oh, there's no connection. 03:29 >>JEFFREY: The church in the wilderness. 03:31 >>DAVID: So, nature, okay, got you. 03:33 Sorry, I was just trying to... 03:34 >>TY: David. 03:35 >>DAVID: I needed that synapse to fire, I'm sorry. 03:36 I got it now. 03:38 >>TY: There's really no connection, I just was curious 03:39 what your happiest experience in nature was. 03:43 >>DAVID: But I did not have the experience of them 03:45 circling me and saying, hey, no, we're going this way. 03:46 They just all streamed by me. 03:47 >>TY: So, my experience was better than yours. 03:49 >>DAVID: Well, it's a tie. 03:50 [Laughter] 03:54 >>TY: One time, I'll just throw this out, my second was 03:57 we built a fort in a tree just about 20 feet away from 04:02 nesting eagles. 04:05 And then, we just sat up there and waited and waited and 04:08 waited until they got comfortable with the fact that 04:10 we were there and then just straight over, we could just 04:14 watch what they were doing, for days. 04:16 >>DAVID: This is when you were younger. 04:18 >>TY: I was in my 20s. 04:19 >>DAVID: So, not like, as a child. 04:21 For some reason, when you said tree fort, I thought child. 04:24 >>TY: No, it was me and a photographer friend of mine, 04:27 who, we just saw these eagles, we thought, oh, there's a 04:29 tree, let's just go up there and build this fort and we'll 04:31 just watch. 04:32 Anyways, so. 04:34 >>DAVID: Well, the eagle thing works out great here because 04:36 you got the Revelation 12, the two wings of an eagle. 04:39 >>TY: So, let's break it down, we came through verse 1 and 5 04:45 and now we're in verse 6, somebody recap for us, though, 04:50 what we've come through so far in verses 1-5 in Revelation 12. 04:54 >>DAVID: Basically, you've got 3 figures that we've 04:56 identified so far, the woman, the child, and the dragon, and 04:59 we've identified the woman as the people of God, the child 05:02 that was caught up to the throne as Jesus, and the 05:04 dragon as that old serpent called the devil and Satan, 05:06 and it's just... 05:07 >>TY: And sometimes, though, the dragon manifests himself 05:09 in earthly systems like the Roman empire. 05:11 >>DAVID: The Roman empire, Herrod trying to kill the 05:14 children there in Bethlehem. 05:15 So, what we've seen up to this point is, there's a conflict. 05:18 And he was ready to pounce, to devour the child as soon as 05:21 the child was born, which happened. 05:23 Jesus died on a Roman instrument of torture, the 05:26 cross, and he was put in a tomb with a Roman seal. 05:29 >>JEFFREY: Even before then, at his birth, there was an 05:31 attempt at his life. 05:32 >>DAVID: I just preached on that recently in Matthew 05:35 chapters 1 and 2 and basically, the point that I 05:38 made was is, from the earliest moment of Jesus's life, he was 05:41 living the shadow of the cross. 05:42 There's just always this sense of peril that follows Jesus. 05:48 >>TY: That's where I'm going. 05:49 >>DAVID: Okay, great. 05:51 >>TY: No, Jesus is knowing, that's where I'm, that's where 05:55 Jesus knows he's going. 05:56 Yeah. 05:57 So, chronologically, through verses 1-5, we're up through 06:04 the crucifixion. 06:05 >>JAMES: Yeah, which, by the way, we just wanted to 06:07 mention, too, this is the beginning of the fourth 06:08 prophetic cycle. 06:10 So, again, we're going back to the life of Christ. 06:11 Viewers might be thinking, well, we're in the book of 06:13 Revelation now, we're in chapter 12, so we've moved way 06:16 down in history, we must be way down toward the end of 06:19 time somewhere. 06:20 No, we're actually starting all over again when it comes 06:22 to the understanding of history. 06:24 We're looking at historicism, so in the churches and seals 06:27 and the trumpets, we always go back to apostolic age. 06:30 And we see that same cycle begin here in Revelation 12, 06:33 because we have Christ being born of the woman, the Jewish 06:36 church, and then, being called up to heaven, so, we're in the 06:38 apostolic age right here and then, we're gonna go forward 06:40 from there as we move into the rest of chapter 12, we're 06:43 gonna go forward from there into that history that we've 06:45 covered, we've covered, we've covered. 06:47 >>DAVID: So, this is now a fourth journey. 06:48 >>JAMES: Yes, with different details. 06:49 >>DAVID: So, we've hiked it, we've walked it, we've flown 06:52 over it, we've bike ridden it. 06:54 What was, what else? 06:55 We've canoed it. 06:56 >>JAMES: We're gonna canoe it this time. 06:57 >>DAVID: I actually know a guy. 06:58 >>JAMES: Lewis and Clarke. 06:59 >>DAVID: I don't know them, but I know a guy who canoed, 07:01 true story, from New York to San Francisco. 07:04 >>JAMES: You can do it. 07:05 >>DAVID: Yeah, you have to do a number of fairly lengthy 07:06 portages, but you can canoe across the United States. 07:09 >>JAMES: Amazing. 07:10 >>DAVID: That's amazing. 07:12 >>TY: Okay, so, verse 6. 07:16 Verse 6, then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she 07:22 had a place prepared for her by God, prepared by God. 07:26 So, now, where are we chronologically? 07:29 The crucifixion has occurred, New Testament Christianity. 07:33 >>JEFFREY: Not just crucifixion, ascension in 07:34 verse 5, caught up to the throne. 07:36 >>TY: Okay, so crucifixion, resurrection, ascension in 07:39 verse 5, and then, the first word of verse 6 is then. 07:42 Okay, so the New Testament church is thriving right here. 07:48 You might insert the whole book of Acts. 07:50 Is that true? 07:51 >>DAVID: Absolutely. 07:52 >>TY: So, the whole book of Acts can be inserted right 07:54 here between verses 5 and 6. 07:56 >>DAVID: Things are looking up. 07:57 >>TY: This are looking up, the church is flourishing. 07:59 And then. 08:00 >>DAVID: We should say, though, that even in the 08:02 apostolic period, John said there were many antichrists in 08:05 the world and Paul said, from among your own selves, Acts 08:07 20, men will arise, speaking perverse things. 08:09 The spirit of iniquity, the mystery of iniquity is already 08:12 at work. 08:14 So, there was the anticipation that even though things were 08:16 looking up and flourishing, as you said, that danger was very 08:20 much on the horizon. 08:22 And not just danger in terms of persecution, but 08:25 ultimately, in the post-Constantinian era, danger 08:29 in terms of coopting the Christian message for purposes. 08:33 So that's what's headed there. 08:36 And that's, verse 6, then, is the woman fleeing, I think 08:39 that's where you were going, into the wilderness. 08:40 Where is that at? 08:41 >>TY: Why is the woman fleeing into the wilderness, I guess, 08:43 is the question. 08:44 Well, obviously, she's fleeing into the wilderness because 08:46 what you're just describing. 08:48 There are antichrist forces that are developing, that are 08:53 growing, and persecution is developing. 08:58 And as persecution develops, verse 6 is basically telling 09:02 us that the church fled into the wilderness, away from 09:06 persecution. 09:07 And there is a providence element here because the place 09:10 in the wilderness is prepared by God. 09:13 In the sense that God providentially is preserving 09:17 his people by taking them underground. 09:20 And in the wilderness means that they are vanishing from 09:24 historical, obvious observation and sight, and 09:27 this is a very important point. 09:29 The church that we see visibly unfolding in the book of Acts, 09:34 with Christ, the disciples, in the book of Acts, that church 09:37 begins to vanish from historic observation in a sense, and 09:42 the thing that the historians are commenting on as 09:45 Christianity becomes the antichrist that's masquerading 09:51 as the Christian church. 09:53 >>DAVID: The Christian church has gone underground. 09:54 >>TY: So, the real thing has gone under and the thing that 09:56 historians are observing, the church, is really not the 09:59 thing. 10:00 >>JEFFREY: The parallel, it's, the time frame in the second 10:03 part of verse 6 is a continuation from the previous 10:06 chapter where we were at, which we didn't really get 10:08 into. 10:09 In verse 2, Revelation 11, 42 months, and then, in verse 3, 10:15 the witnesses that are prophesying in sack cloth for 10:20 1,260 days. 10:26 And you know, the reader clearly sees that that's 10:29 exactly the time frame in chapter 12, verse 6. 10:31 So, we asked. 10:32 >>TY: That went by really fast. 10:34 Yeah, what you're pointing out is that back in chapter 11, 10:40 back in chapter 11, there are two references to a period of 10:43 time. 10:45 1260 days, it's called, or 42 months, which is equivalent to 10:47 1260 days. 10:49 And then, that period of time now is showing up again in 10:51 chapter 12, verse 6. 10:54 >>JEFFREY: And in connection to the woman going into the 10:55 wilderness. 10:56 So, we ask, why is she going into the wilderness? 10:59 And the answer to that question is hinted at in 11:02 chapter 11. 11:03 Because it says that, for that very same chunk of time. 11:07 >>JAMES: 42 months, 1260 days. 11:08 >>JEFFREY: 1260 days, the witnesses are prophesying in 11:12 sack cloth, and we identified that, last discussion, that's 11:15 a symbol of mourning. 11:16 Why is the word of God mourning? 11:19 The two witnesses, the word of God, why is the word of God 11:21 mourning? 11:22 And so, we described this period of darkness where the 11:25 word of God has to go underground. 11:27 >>TY: And history itself has acknowledged that this is the 11:30 quote unquote dark ages. 11:32 It's dark scientifically, it's dark technologically, it's 11:36 dark with, art has become... 11:40 >>JEFFREY: Socially and religiously, too. 11:43 >>TY: Yeah, on every level, it's dark. 11:44 >>JAMES: So, let's just point out one thing right here and 11:46 that is, one of the reasons why we're not spending a lot 11:48 of time, and when I say a lot of time, I mean, verse 5, 11:51 verse 6, we're not spending a lot of time expounding upon 11:54 the actual history of the dark ages, it's because the book of 11:57 Revelation has already done that. 11:58 So, in the 7 churches, we talked about Smyrna and the 12:01 persecution of the pagan realm, and then we talked 12:03 about Pergamum and the exaltation of the church in 12:05 the world and compromise. 12:06 Then, we talked about Thyatira and Jezebel and the false 12:08 prophet. 12:09 That history, those details are covered. 12:11 Yeah, so, now, as we get to the last prophetic cycle, John 12:15 is saying, now, there's something more significant 12:17 that we really need to emphasize here. 12:19 >>DAVID: Keep going, I'm with you. 12:20 >>JAMES: And that more significant thing, but we need 12:22 to mention this because this verse right here will connect 12:24 with chapter 11, will connect with Pergamum and Thyatira, 12:28 but the more significant thing we need to talk about here is, 12:31 where did this all start? 12:32 How did this defamation of God's character, how did this 12:35 misrepresentation, this church went underground and then, 12:38 this church that was out from that everyone saw was just 12:41 totally misrepresented God, leading into the French 12:43 Revolution. 12:44 How did this all start? 12:45 Where did it all start? 12:46 >>TY: That's from verse 7 onward, well, not onward, but 12:48 yeah. 12:49 >>JAMES: And that's why we have the interruption in verse 7. 12:52 Verses 7, 8, 9, and 10 kind of, it seems like, why is that 12:54 there? 12:55 What is that doing there? 12:56 >>TY: But before we look at where that came from, because 12:58 that's a vital connection, do we wanna, Jeffrey was about to 13:01 tell us what that 1260 year period of time is. 13:04 We'd have to go back to it. 13:05 We can do it later or we can do it now. 13:07 >>JAMES: Well, the reason why I say this is because the way 13:09 the book of Revelation is written, we could actually 13:11 cover 7-10 and talk about, you know, how, and then, the book 13:17 resumes, it naturally resumes and goes back and fills out 13:21 the picture that takes us right into Revelation 13. 13:24 >>TY: And the 1260 year period of time comes up, could be 13:29 defined then. 13:30 So, let's do that, let's go into verses 7. 13:32 So, James, take us to, now, we're asking, what we're doing 13:37 is we're pushing a pause on verse 6, there's something 13:39 there that we haven't defined, but we're coming back to it, 13:42 and what James is pointing out is that now, what's gonna 13:45 happen is, starting with verse 7, John is about to say to us, 13:49 okay, let me explain to you where all this really began. 13:52 >>JAMES: And that's the point. 13:53 The point is for those who are reading the book of Revelation 13:55 and they're just following through, the point is, why are 13:57 we jumping out of this? 13:58 And so, we're explaining that. 13:59 The reason we're jumping to this is because John wants to 14:01 take us back to what actually caused all of this mess. 14:05 And there's a really interesting verse here, I 14:07 mean, a really interesting phrase here. 14:09 Let's just read through the verses and then we'll 14:11 highlight this phrase. 14:12 Verse 7, and there was war in heaven and Michael and his 14:15 angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought 14:18 in his angels and prevailed not. 14:20 Neither was their place, emphasis on that word, found 14:23 anymore in heaven and the great dragon was cast out, 14:27 that old serpent called the devil and Satan which deceived 14:29 the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his 14:33 angels were cast out with him. 14:34 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, now has come 14:39 salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God and the 14:42 power of his Christ, for the accuser of our brethren is 14:45 cast down which accused them before God day and night, and 14:48 they overcame them by the blood of the Lamb, by the word 14:51 of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto the 14:53 death. 14:54 Therefore, rejoice ye heavens and ye that dwell on them, woe 14:59 to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea, for the 15:01 devil has come down unto you, having great wrath because he 15:05 knows he has but a short time. 15:06 >>TY: What a passage. 15:07 >>JAMES: These are incredible verses. 15:09 And there's a word here that connects with the previous 15:12 verse and that, verse 6, I should say, and that word is 15:16 place. 15:17 And I just wanna start our discussion by emphasizing this 15:21 word. 15:22 When this rebellion began in heaven, Satan and his angels 15:26 lost their place. 15:29 The woman is given a place by God in the wilderness. 15:34 The first of humankind, Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden, 15:37 when they were deceived by the serpent, they lost their place 15:39 in the Garden of Eden. 15:42 When the Jewish nation were deceived and rejecting Christ, 15:44 they lost their place as God's designated people, and when 15:47 you get to the end of the book of Revelation, and the final 15:50 judgement takes place, the books are opened after the 15:53 1,000 years, the wicked look up and they see the whole plan 15:57 of redemption and the description that is given of 16:00 their situation is that they have no place. 16:04 There's no place found for them. 16:05 Can you imagine what it would feel like to have no place? 16:08 And then, there's another verse in John 14 and it says 16:11 that Jesus is talking to his disciples and accompanying 16:14 them and he says... 16:15 >>DAVID: I go to prepare a place for you. 16:17 >>JAMES: It's all about a place. 16:20 God is describing to us that through the deception of Satan 16:23 we, and the whole human race, has lost their place and God 16:27 wants to restore that place. 16:29 And the reason why it's so important about the wilderness 16:31 is because God has a place for this woman. 16:33 Even though the whole world will reject, even though the 16:37 whole world is opposing, God has a place for his people, 16:40 and that's the focus of the tenner here. 16:42 >>JEFFREY: On that, the whole preparing a place, you just 16:44 reminded me, in Matthew 25, when Jesus tells the parable 16:46 of the sheep and the goat at the end, it says here, then, 16:50 he shall say to those on the left hand, depart from me, you 16:53 cursed, into the everlasting fire, prepared for the devil 16:57 and his angels. 16:58 And so, I just thought, that's a beautiful thing. 17:00 Anybody who's lost ends up in a place that was never 17:03 prepared for them, right. 17:05 God never intended for that. 17:06 >>DAVID: The place that God has prepared and deemed for 17:08 humanity is the new heaven and new earth. 17:10 humanity is the new heaven and new earth. 17:11 >>TY: Okay, so, yeah, thanks, James. 17:13 Those are connections those verses that I had never 17:17 noticed before and it highlights, again, something 17:21 very practical and that is, it highlights the relationality 17:25 of God, that God, we're not dealing in Revelation with 17:30 merely world powers and empires and you know, the 17:35 devil and his angels and a God who is presiding with 17:41 sovereignty over a bunch of events. 17:44 God is relating to people and we're those people and at the 17:49 heart of the whole thing, I think this is incredible, 17:52 you're calling our attention to the fact that, at the heart 17:55 of the whole thing, there's a place that God is preparing 17:58 for us and he is trying to navigate his people through 18:03 his providence to that place where we're back with him in 18:07 fellowship and that's incredible. 18:09 So, we need to unpack these verses further, but now we 18:14 need to take a break, but when we come back, let's talk about 18:17 this war that broke out in heaven. 18:20 >>JAMES: Okay. 18:21 [Music] 18:33 Announcer: Want a seat at the table? 18:34 Well, you're certainly invited. 18:36 Visit our website at lightbearers.org. 18:39 In fact, you may wanna make it your homepage because we're 18:43 always adding something new to strengthen your relationship 18:46 with Jesus. 18:47 At 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in scripture, 21:03 at least in the New Testament, where Jesus is preparing a 21:06 place for us and the final demise of the wicked, which we 21:08 often just think in terms of, well, they're gonna be 21:11 destroyed, but it's more than that. 21:14 They enter into a position, according to Revelation 21:18 chapter 20, verse 11, they enter into a place where they 21:22 realize that the way they think and feel and do life is 21:27 completely out of sync with the way the universe really 21:31 operates and God's kingdom of love and other-centeredness 21:34 and relational integrity, so they don't fit with the 21:39 ultimate system of love, and they realize that 21:41 there's no place for them. 21:43 Can you imagine, you were bringing this out and I just 21:46 wanna emphasize it, can you imagine being in a state of 21:49 mind where you realize that you don't belong anywhere? 21:53 You don't have a home, you have no resting place, you 21:55 have no relationships. 21:56 >>JEFFREY: People associate hell with the fire. 21:59 Anytime you mention to people hell or they read the 22:00 scripture, I think hell is that moment of realization. 22:05 >>TY: That you don't fit with the universe. 22:06 >>JEFFREY: You're out of sync with the universe. 22:08 >>TY: With God, with his character, with his people. 22:11 >>JEFFREY: And you have no place. 22:12 That's hell, that's hell. 22:14 >>JAMES: It's also significant, I think, that 22:16 this is mentioned. 22:17 Verse 6 talks about the place that God has prepared and then 22:19 verse 7 talks about, in the context, verse 8, talks about 22:24 the place that Satan and his angels lost. 22:26 And so, what we see here is God connecting together two 22:30 thoughts, and the thought is this, the angles and Lucifer 22:33 that fell from heaven are going to be replaced. 22:36 They're gonna be replaced. 22:37 They were lost, they've lost their place and God has given 22:41 us a place. 22:42 And that place, ultimately that God has given us, whether 22:44 it's in the wilderness, hated by the world, but we have a 22:46 place with God, whether it's individuals, God has a place 22:50 for every single human being on planet earth, whoever they 22:52 are, whatever they are, if they give their lives to him, 22:55 he's gonna let that place be fulfilled. 22:57 That place ultimately leads us to the very position that I 23:01 think the angels fell from in the context of Revelation 23:03 as well. 23:04 >>TY: I think it's an incredible point because we're 23:06 social creatures, we're built for relationship, there's a 23:08 reason we're sitting at this table. 23:10 We, there are four of us here, and we each have a place in 23:15 this conversation and there's something beautiful about it. 23:18 It's different than being alone in the world and we're 23:22 doing this table talk situation in order to broaden 23:25 that place, to bring other people to the table, to 23:28 encourage, and this scripture's just coming to my 23:30 mind right now, what about 1 John, chapter 1, where John 23:34 says, hey, we saw him, touched him, felt him, we heard his 23:38 word, we were in his very presence and the whole reason 23:41 we're telling you these things, preaching the gospel, 23:44 the whole reason we're telling you these things is so that 23:46 you can have fellowship with us and truly our fellowship is 23:48 with him. 23:49 The whole thing is headed toward a big, giant, beautiful 23:53 social network of people who belong to one another in a 23:57 very beautiful way. 24:00 And that theme is in the book of Revelation, it's beautiful. 24:06 >>JEFFREY: And at the moment in history where Christians 24:08 would have felt least support, least supported by God or by 24:10 providence is the moment where they're specifically, the 24:14 church is identified as being, you keep using the word 24:17 nurtured, nurtured by God, and I guess we'll run into it 24:19 again, but it's right there in verse 14. 24:21 In her place, she is nurtured by God. 24:24 >>DAVID: In her place. 24:25 >>JEFFREY: In her place, so. 24:27 >>DAVID: Jeffrey mentioned Matthew 25 there about how 24:29 prepared for the devil and his angels, and I think it's 24:33 important to recognize that you know, we all have good 24:36 situations, I'm happily married 17 years, you're 24:39 happily married longer than that, for like 50 years. 24:42 [Laughter] 24:43 Happily married, happily married. 24:45 >>TY: So, did I get married before I was born? 24:47 >>DAVID: Before you were born. 24:48 So, anyway, the point here is that, like, we've got a good 24:51 ministry, we're friends, we've got a group of friends, but we 24:55 should realize that we live a privileged life, a charmed 24:57 life, the Lord has blessed us. 24:59 Not everybody who's watching this program has the support 25:02 network, has the place that we have. 25:04 And you know, the truth of the matter is, whether it's a 25:07 financial situation, an emotional situation, a spousal 25:10 situation, people can feel very lonely in this world, 25:13 very lonely. 25:14 Loneliness is an epidemic right now and I suppose 25:16 there's many things that we could say in a pastoral 25:19 capacity, but one of the things is, is even when this 25:22 world, Revelation 12, you know, when you don't feel like 25:25 you have a place, that's the moment, and I think this was 25:28 your point, Jeffrey, and I think God is the closest, that 25:30 God is the tenderest. 25:31 It's like that old footprints thing, you know, the two 25:33 footprints and the, you know, there was the one in the 25:36 darkest scenes in my life, well, you know, why did you 25:38 leave me? 25:39 I was carrying you. 25:40 You know, God, even in our darkest, most lonely, most 25:43 difficult moments, God has a place for you. 25:46 He has a purpose for you, he has a place for you, he has a 25:48 word for you. 25:49 You could be sitting in a hospital bed right now, 25:51 watching this, maybe life, the cancer test has come back 25:54 positive, you've lost a loved one, and the world can start 25:57 to feel very alien. 25:59 I know we've all been there at times in our lives, where 26:00 you've been like, do I really belong somewhere? 26:03 And the message of God is, yes, you do belong somewhere, 26:07 but there will never be a sense on this earth where we 26:10 feel perfectly at home. 26:13 Where our... 26:14 >>JEFFREY: Or, there ought never be. 26:16 >>DAVID: Yeah, that's right. 26:17 There should be a little bit of discomfort, you know, like 26:19 a garment that doesn't quite fit right about this earth. 26:21 God has a real place, which I think was your big point 26:23 there, James, Revelation 21, 22, new heaven, new earth, no 26:27 more pain, no more death, no more sorrow, former things 26:29 have passed away. 26:30 That's our place. 26:31 Right now, we're all getting along. 26:34 Right, we're getting along the best we can by the grace of 26:37 God in a situation that's filled with conflict. 26:40 >>TY: And the world in general. 26:42 >>DAVID: Yeah, that world, that's the world we live in. 26:43 You know, we began this whole Revelation program talking 26:45 about Orlando and the situation in Nice, France, and 26:48 all of that, like, this is not our home. 26:52 >>TY: It's not. 26:53 What about the fact, this just occurred to me, building on 26:57 this theme that James has just brought up with the place 26:59 idea. 27:01 Isn't that just exactly what Jesus endured on our behalf? 27:08 No place? 27:09 >>DAVID: He doesn't have a place to lay his head. 27:12 >>TY: Didn't he, through his life, experience a sense of 27:16 loneliness and isolation because of the fact that he is 27:23 living and thinking only in lines of love when there's 27:29 selfishness all around him? 27:31 And then, finally, when he comes to the cross and says, 27:33 my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 27:36 Doesn't Jesus feel the ultimate loneliness and 27:39 isolation on the cross in separation from the Father? 27:44 He endured that in order to bring us back into fellowship 27:52 with himself and the Father. 27:54 >>JAMES: And that's what we're reading in these verses. 27:56 Ty, you've taken us right into Revelation chapter 12 and here 28:01 in verse, I think it's 10, and I heard a loud voice saying in 28:05 heaven, now is come salvation and strength and the power of 28:08 our God and the kingdom of our God and the power of his 28:11 Christ, for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which 28:14 accused them before God day and night. 28:16 Now, keep your hand right here, and just go over to John 28:20 chapter 12, the gospel of John chapter 12 is making a 28:25 connection here with Revelation. 28:27 And by the way, we've talked a lot about the book of 28:28 Revelation connecting to the Old Testament. 28:30 >>TY: I hope you're going back to verse 7, by the way. 28:32 >>JAMES: Verse 7 of Revelation 12? 28:35 >>TY: Yeah. 28:36 >>JAMES: Maybe. 28:37 John chapter 12, yeah, you do it, and here, Jesus Christ is, 28:40 Jesus is getting ready to go to the cross, he's getting 28:43 ready to go to Calvary and in this context, he says, and I'm 28:47 just reading here in verse 31 of John chapter 12, now is the 28:51 judgment of this world. 28:53 Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 28:57 And then he says, if I be lifted up from the earth, will 29:01 draw all unto me. 29:04 This he said signifying what death he should die. 29:05 So, there's a direct connection between Revelation 29:07 chapter 12 and verse 10 and the cross and Calvary. 29:12 What you were just talking about in the relationship of 29:15 Christ and that no place and his willingness to die for us, 29:18 that is really the context of this verse. 29:21 What answers the question of deception to the whole world, 29:24 what answers the issue of a place for every human being is 29:27 the cross, it's Calvary. 29:29 >>TY: Yeah, yeah. 29:30 So, for clarification, for my sake, is there, are there two 29:37 pivotal points at which Satan is cast out? 29:42 >>JAMES: Yes. 29:42 >>DAVID: At least two. 29:44 >>TY: At least two, because if you look, going back to verse 29:46 7, the reason I said verse 7 is because you had actually 29:50 said earlier, when we come to verse 7, it's like John is 29:54 backing up and saying, let me tell you where this all began. 29:56 Okay, well, where did it all begin? 29:58 Verse 7, war broke out in heaven, and that war that 30:01 broke out in heaven was between Satan, his angels, 30:06 obviously, some of the angelic community sided with Lucifer, 30:10 right? 30:11 So, he's got his angels, they belong to him in a loyalty 30:14 sense, they've joined forces with him, so, you've got Satan 30:17 and his angels and then you have Michael and his angels, 30:22 that's the loyalty contingency, those who are not 30:28 joining with Lucifer in this heavenly rebellion and this 30:31 war that breaks out, it says in verse 9, so the great 30:37 dragon was cast out, but you pointed out later on in the 30:41 passage another casting out. 30:44 So, there's two points in which he's being cast out. 30:46 Can I say it this way, see if you guys agree with this or 30:48 can make this even more clear, back at the initial rebellion, 30:54 Satan was cast out of heaven. 30:57 In heaven, he led out in a rebellion against God and he 31:02 was cast out of heaven and then according to, 31:06 was cast out of heaven and then according to, 31:07 where does it say... 31:09 >>JAMES: That was verse 8 and now we're... 31:11 >>TY: But, in verse 10, it says he came to the earth, 31:12 right? 31:13 So, he's cast out of heaven, he comes into the earth. 31:15 >>JAMES: Well, verse 9, it says he's cast into the earth. 31:18 >>TY: Okay, so verse 9, he's come to the earth. 31:19 But then, he's on the earth, he's doing his thing, he's 31:21 leading human beings into sin and rebellion against God. 31:26 But then, you brought us to Calvary, where Jesus 31:29 explicitly says, in chapter 12 that, whatever happened, 31:33 chapter 12 of John, whatever happened at Calvary cast Satan 31:37 out again. 31:39 >>DAVID: Yes, that's right. 31:40 >>TY: On a deeper level? 31:41 In some sense, he's cast out just like physically removed 31:46 from the heavenly realm to the earthly realm in the initial 31:49 casting out, but then, at Calvary, he's cast out of the 31:54 loyalties and the imagination and the sympathies of 31:57 intelligent beings who look at Calvary and they assess the 32:04 character of God revealed in Jesus versus the claims that 32:07 Satan has made against the character of God. 32:10 So, there's a casting out at Calvary. 32:11 >>DAVID: The way that I've often communicated this, 32:14 you'll remember your thought? 32:15 The way that I've communicated this is, there's not that many 32:18 passages in the Old Testament that deal with Satan. 32:20 There's just precious few. 32:23 Like, you could list them. 32:24 You've got, what, Ezekiel 28, Isaiah 14, Job 1, Genesis 3, 32:29 Zachariah 3. 32:31 >>TY: Yeah. 32:33 >>DAVID: There might be a few others, but when you look at 32:35 what I call the Satanic verses, right, like, those are 32:37 the verses that describe... 32:39 >>TY: In the Old Testament. 32:40 >>DAVID: In the Old Testament. 32:41 He's far more prominent in the New Testament because Jesus is 32:43 coming regularly in direct conflict with him. 32:46 Not to say that he's not working in the Old Testament. 32:48 >>TY: Genesis 3. 32:49 >>DAVID: I said Genesis 3. 32:50 So, when you add those passages up, what you see is 32:52 exactly what you're describing. 32:54 For example, in Job 2, he has access, he's some heavenly 32:57 realm, you know, have you considered my servant Job, 33:00 where do you come from? 33:01 I come from earth. 33:02 You have this whole, well, clearly, this is not happening 33:04 on earth because otherwise, he wouldn't say where do you come 33:06 from? 33:08 If they're, say, in Austin, Texas, you say, where you come 33:10 from? 33:11 Well, I live here. 33:12 You see what I'm saying? 33:13 He's come from some other place to this place and this 33:16 controversy, this conflict about who Job really belongs 33:19 to breaks out. 33:20 Whatever this celestial, you know, conclave is, this 33:23 meeting of these sons of God, he has access. 33:28 There's a point of access there. 33:30 That's an Old Testament point of access, but I think your 33:32 point, Ty, and it's a great one, is post the cross, when 33:36 Satan was exposed as a murderer, Jesus said, he's a 33:38 murderer, from the beginning, but people couldn't see it. 33:41 You know, you are of your father, the devil, you know, 33:42 he was a murderer from the beginning. 33:44 But now, when Satan's MO, when his mode of governance and the 33:50 outworking of his plan ends up with the beloved of heaven, 33:54 Jesus, nailed to a Roman instrument of torture, a 33:56 cross, it's like, the angels are like, whoa, no, no. 34:02 We don't wanna have anything to do with that. 34:03 So, the severing from the sympathies, from the 34:05 loyalties, that's it. 34:08 Now, check this out, I love this idea that he's then cast 34:10 to the earth. 34:11 I think that post cross, Jesus, excuse me, Satan's 34:15 exclusive domain is the earth. 34:18 It's just here. 34:19 This is the only place left that is as yet undecided about 34:22 the throne of God being set in heaven. 34:25 >>JAMES: That's confirmed in verse 12. 34:27 >>DAVID: Have you ever seen this? 34:28 What do you think of verse 13? 34:29 I know we're jumping a little bit ahead, but, of chapter 12. 34:31 I love this. 34:32 You get almost the sense of like, awareness, apprehension, 34:36 and surprise. 34:38 When the dragon saw that he was, it's like, I don't know 34:42 if he tries to like, I don't know how he moves, say he 34:46 tries to beam, you know, to go, and he's... 34:49 tries to beam, you know, to go, and he's... 34:51 And he can't leave. 34:52 When he saw that he was cast to the earth. 34:55 >>JAMES: There was no more sympathy with any of the 34:57 unfolding... 34:58 >>JEFFREY: He diverts his attention to the next target. 34:59 >>DAVID: Everything goes to a rage against... 35:04 >>TY: It's fully vindictive. 35:06 >>JAMES: Have you ever called someone and they don't answer? 35:07 You call someone and they don't answer, you text them 35:09 and they don't answer, you text them and they don't 35:10 See, this is the picture. 35:11 Satan is, he's sending these texts and calls out and 35:14 there's a response. 35:15 Well, have you considered my servant Job? 35:16 But now there's no answer. 35:18 There's no answer. 35:20 >>DAVID: The only answering chord takes place on earth. 35:21 >>JAMES: Yes. 35:22 There's no answering chord, good. 35:23 >>DAVID: I totally see that. 35:25 >>TY: Let me add a scripture to this idea that the cross 35:29 constituted the casting out of Satan in some significant 35:32 sense. 35:34 >>DAVID: Colossians 2:15. 35:35 >>TY: Did you see it? 35:36 >>DAVID: No, I just love it, one of my all-time favorites. 35:38 If you are a lover of the gospel and of scripture, 35:41 Colossians 2:15 has to be one of your very favorites. 35:45 >>TY: So, it says that, it's talking about Jesus at the 35:48 cross and it says, having disarmed, that's an 35:51 interesting word, having disarmed principalities and 35:54 powers, obviously bad ones, having disarmed principalities 35:58 and powers, he, Jesus, made a public spectacle of them, 36:01 triumphing over them in it, that is, the cross. 36:05 >>DAVID: In the cross. 36:06 >>TY: So, the cross constituted the triumph of 36:09 Christ over the devil and did two things, it disarmed him 36:14 and it made a public spectacle of him. 36:18 So, this was open to assessment, open to view for 36:22 observers to see what happened at the cross, but the reason I 36:27 wanted to look at that scripture and compare it with 36:29 Revelation 12 is because it says he disarmed them. 36:33 What does it mean? 36:34 Do we see Jesus at the cross like, wrestling Satan to the 36:37 ground and taking a pistol out of his hand? 36:40 Wrestling him to the ground and taking a knife out of his 36:42 hand? 36:44 Is he dismantling a bomb? 36:48 No. 36:50 When it says he disarmed him, this connects with chapter 12 36:52 verse 7, where it says, war broke out in heaven. 36:55 Interestingly, the word war there is the Greek word 37:01 palemos and it's not referring to angels, like, in midair 37:06 with like Star Wars, which trivializes it. 37:11 They're not casting laser beams out of their fingertips 37:13 at one another, it's a conversation that's occurring. 37:18 An argument, polemic. 37:21 So, palemos is polemic, we're entering a presidential 37:24 election season. 37:27 >>DAVID: That is filled with polemic. 37:28 >>TY: It's a palemos, it's a war. 37:32 >>JEFFREY: There's claims, counterclaims, smear 37:34 campaigns. 37:35 >>TY: So, Hillary is not challenging Trump to a duel. 37:40 She's standing at a podium shooting words. 37:43 He's standing at a podium, shooting words, and they're 37:45 shooting words back and forth at and about one another in 37:49 order to smear one another's characters. 37:53 >>DAVID: And to win loyalty. 37:54 >>TY: And to win loyalty from others and that's the kind of 37:57 war... 37:58 >>JEFFREY: To arouse suspicion about each other, too. 37:59 >>TY: Yeah, that's the war we're dealing with in 38:01 Revelation. 38:02 The devil is deceiving, he's making claims about or against 38:06 God. 38:07 >>DAVID: With, obviously, we have to say this, with the 38:11 major exception being that there is no mutuality. 38:14 In other words, we need, Trump and Clinton doing their, it's 38:17 mutual, and it's ugly on both sides. 38:20 In heaven, it's not bilateral, it's unilateral. 38:24 Satan is like, yeah, but you, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, 38:26 but you. 38:26 And God's like... 38:27 >>JAMES: It's kinda like that candidate that refused to say 38:29 anything negative. 38:30 Remember him? 38:31 >>DAVID: I do remember him. 38:32 >>JAMES: He didn't get anywhere. 38:35 >>DAVID: He didn't get very far. 38:36 >>JAMES: Kind of. 38:37 >>DAVID: Kind of. 38:38 >>JEFFREY: There's a progression, I just wanna read 38:38 one thing out real quick here. 38:40 There's a progression between the crushing or the casting 38:42 out of Satan, right? 38:43 You said it happened initially in heaven, he gets cast down 38:47 on earth, and it's not until Calvary where Christ deals the 38:50 next blow and that next blow, that casting out, other 38:54 language used, Genesis 3:15, the promise of the crushing, 38:59 the crushing of the serpent. 39:01 So, that happens at Calvary. 39:04 Satan is cast out and crushed, but he's still around, he's 39:07 still active. 39:08 Right, and I think the hint in chapter 12 is that through the 39:12 church, the final blow will be dealt in a sense. 39:17 You gotta come to chapter 16 and verse 20, it says, the God 39:21 of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. 39:25 >>TY: That's the church that's being addressed there. 39:27 >>JEFFREY: Yeah. 39:28 So, Christ will crush Satan under the church's feet, under 39:32 the woman's feet. 39:33 >>TY: That's a direct quote from Genesis 3:15. 39:35 >>JEFFREY: And he's talking to the church, but this is 39:36 post-Calvary obviously, so here we have casting out in 39:39 heaven, casting out on earth because of Calvary, but his 39:44 activities are still allowed to develop and to show, and to 39:48 expose himself and eventually, sorry? 39:51 >>JAMES: The church has to disarm him. 39:52 >>DAVID: Well, he is disarmed, the church has to ride in the 39:54 wake of the victory. 39:55 >>JEFFREY: And represent and publish and proclaim what has 39:58 already taken place so that, eventually, Satan is crushed 40:02 under the very people's... 40:03 >>TY: And all this language of disarmed and crushed and war, 40:06 the point we're making, it has nothing to do with physical 40:09 war. 40:10 It has to do with disarming his arguments with truth. 40:13 >>DAVID: So, and it's in the actual text that you read, 40:16 Romans 16:20, what God does this? 40:21 >>JEFFREY: The God of peace. 40:22 >>DAVID: The God of peace. 40:23 >>TY: The God of shalom. 40:24 >>DAVID: The God of shalom. 40:25 He's not a God of war. 40:26 War was brought to him. 40:28 That's my point about the bilateral versus unilateral. 40:30 The war was brought to him. 40:31 >>TY: But it's not intrinsic to his nature. 40:34 >>DAVID: No. 40:35 >>JEFFREY: It backfires on the initiator. 40:38 Satan's raising his accusations and those things 40:41 just bounce back at him and reveal that all Satan was 40:44 doing was projecting to God, his own psyche, his own 40:47 character. 40:48 >>DAVID: And you know, just, I'll throw this last little 40:50 bit in and I think we have to take a break. 40:51 We actually see, I preached a sermon on this recently where 40:54 we see that, like, for example, in the book of 40:56 Daniel, they're like, oh, we're gonna throw that guy 40:58 into the lion's den. 40:59 Well, they end up in the lion's den. 41:00 Oh, we're gonna throw these guys into the fire. 41:03 They're fine in the fire, but the people that tried to throw 41:05 them in the fire, this happens again and again. 41:07 Satan makes a trap, he creates a war situation and then, he 41:11 ends up being, as it were, falling on his own sword. 41:14 >>JAMES: He that kills with the sword will be killed with 41:16 the sword. 41:17 >>TY: There is an Old Testament scripture, I don't 41:18 know where it is, I hope it's in the bible. 41:20 There's a scripture somewhere in the Old Testament that 41:23 says, it says, the wicked dig a pit and fall into it. 41:27 >>DAVID: We'll find it on the break. 41:28 >>JAMES: One more point. 41:30 Armageddon, the three unclean spirits come out of the mouth 41:35 of the dragon, the false prophet, and the beast. 41:37 In other words, a war of words, the mouth. 41:40 >>TY: This is deception. 41:41 >>JAMES: Yes, their main motive argument. 41:43 >>TY: Now can we take a break? 41:44 >>JEFFREY: Wait, one more. 41:46 [Laughter] 41:47 >>TY: We gotta take a break, we'll come right back. 41:50 [Music] 42:02 Announcer: A Light in Zambia is a moving video documentary 42:05 that traces the stories of 5 amazing African men and women 42:09 who encountered Christ through the powerful medium of gospel 42:12 literature. 42:13 To receive your free copy, call 877-585-1111, or write to 42:19 Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 42:26 Once again, to receive your free copy of A Light in 42:29 Zambia, call 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 42:35 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 42:41 Simply ask for the Zambia DVD. 42:45 Simply ask for the Zambia DVD. 42:46 [Music] 42:52 >>TY: So, in this final segment, we're going to move 42:54 through the remaining verses in Revelation chapter 12, but 42:59 the thing is that there are elements that we really wanna 43:04 save for chapter 13, why don't you explain that, David, what 43:06 are we, where are we going now in chapter 12 and what are we 43:10 gonna save for chapter 13? 43:11 >>JEFFREY: Can I confuse you real quick. 43:12 I'm fully doing this right now. 43:14 >>TY: What are you doing? 43:15 >>JEFFREY: Just 'cause you made the statement last 43:18 session, that text about digging a pit and falling into 43:21 it, we're talking about backfiring the devil, it's 43:23 actually in the bible. 43:24 I'm surprised, Ty, you normally surprise me. 43:29 But, in Ecclesiastes 10, it says, he who digs a pit will 43:31 fall into it, which is what you were saying, and whoever 43:34 breaks through a wall will be bitten by a serpent. 43:39 I just love the fact that the word serpent was in there. 43:41 That's Revelation 12. 43:43 >>DAVID: I love it. 43:44 >>JEFFREY: No, it's not, but I thought it was pretty cool. 43:47 >>TY: But, in principle, it does, because what that's 43:49 describing is that reality is rigged or created in such a 43:55 way that a person who uses force and violence breaking 44:00 through a wall experiences the ramifications of that violence 44:04 coming back on their head. 44:06 >>DAVID: He that lives by the sword dies by the sword. 44:07 >>TY: Yeah, it's the cycle that shows up in all story 44:12 lines that the way you solve problems is to hit back and 44:17 Jesus comes along and he says, I'm gonna respond to evil with 44:22 good. 44:23 I'm not gonna hit back, and in not hitting back, I'm going to 44:25 disarm your hate. 44:27 I'm going to take away from you, I'm gonna take away from 44:30 you the very thing that you think is the answer to the 44:35 world's problems and I'm gonna give you an answer on a 44:37 different level. 44:38 >>JEFFREY: But it says serpent. 44:39 >>DAVID: No, I like that, I like that. 44:41 Here's the illustration that I've used in the past, tell me 44:42 if you like that, and then, I'll come back to where we're 44:44 going. 44:45 I say that Satan has three arrows in his quiver. 44:48 So, he's got his quiver and he shoots with three arrows, he 44:50 shoots with deception, he shoots with sin, and he shoots 44:53 with death. 44:54 That's what he has to work with. 44:56 So, Jesus shows up, the deception arrow, he tells the 44:58 truth. 44:59 This is what God looks like, okay? 45:01 He takes the sin arrow and Jesus lives a life of perfect 45:06 relational integrity with God and with man. 45:09 Okay, so that's disarmed, break that arrow. 45:11 And then, death, because the wages of sin is death, death 45:14 had no legitimate hold on Christ, and so he raises from 45:18 the dead. 45:19 So, Jesus walks up, as it were, and effectively snaps 45:22 each of those arrows. 45:23 Not by stabbing Satan, but by doing a different way. 45:26 >>JEFFREY: By being immune to the venom. 45:28 >>DAVID: Yeah, by being immune, by introducing a new 45:31 way of conflict. 45:33 >>TY: He doesn't fight with the same weapons that the 45:37 devil employs or, as we said yesterday, he doesn't out 45:41 monster the monster. 45:43 He doesn't out Satan Satan, he doesn't use the same tactics 45:48 or the same methods. 45:49 >>DAVID: But you have talked to me, Ty, in the past, about 45:51 the myth of redemptive violence. 45:52 That's a phrase that sometimes you used. 45:54 And if you look at television today, whether it's the Iron 45:57 Man, Spider-Man, Superman, or any of the James Bond movies, 46:01 all of that, at the end of the day, is like, hey those guys 46:03 are clever and have weapons, but we'll be more clever and 46:07 have bigger weapons and the hero. 46:09 So, Jesus shows up and he's the anti-hero. 46:13 It's like, he doesn't have any guns, he doesn't, how does he 46:17 win this war? 46:18 >>TY: My kingdom is not of this world, therefore, my 46:19 servants don't fight. 46:21 >>DAVID: That's right, or they would fight. 46:22 >>JAMES: Before you go into that, I just wanna show how 46:24 this connects into Revelation chapter 12 in a very powerful 46:27 way. 46:28 There's a phrase in here that is used five times and it's 46:31 the phrase that describes what happens in relation to the 46:37 woman, the church, and Christ. 46:38 In Revelation chapter 12 and verse 4, it says, and his 46:42 tail, the dragon's tail, drew a third part of the stars in 46:44 heaven, cast them to the earth, and the dragon stood 46:46 before the woman who was ready to be delivered. 46:48 You see that word delivered? 46:50 For to devour her child as soon as it was born and she, 46:54 verse 5, brought forth a man child and then, in verse 13, 46:58 and when the dragon saw he was cast out of the earth, he 47:01 persecuted the woman, which brought forth the man child. 47:05 Now, that word brought forth, brought forth, born, that word 47:08 in the original Greek is the same word that is used back 47:11 here in Revelation chapter 6 and verse 1, and I wanna 47:15 remind us that Revelation 6, verse 1, is apostolic age 47:18 again, it's talking about the white horse, but the white 47:21 horse is describing, in symbolic terms, the apostolic 47:24 era. 47:26 This white horse has a rider, and we believe the rider is 47:28 Jesus, we believe the horse represents God's church, 47:31 Zachariah 10:3 says, God has made his people like goodly 47:34 horse in the day of battle. 47:36 But notice this. 47:38 I saw and behold the white horse and he that besat him 47:40 had a bow. 47:41 What does a bow do? 47:42 You just described it. 47:43 A bow brings forth weapons. 47:45 Well, the word bow is the root word for bring forth, bring 47:50 forth, bring forth, that is used in Revelation 12. 47:52 In other words, that word, in Revelation 12 is used 5 times, 47:55 born, delivered, brought forth, brought forth, is the 47:58 same Greek word for bow right here. 48:01 The apostolic church had a weapon and their weapon was 48:04 the weapon that disarmed Satan, it was the weapon of 48:06 Christ being brought forth. 48:08 It was the weapon of his incarnation, of his life, and 48:10 his death, it was the weapon of the gospel. 48:12 And that is the thing that Satan... 48:14 >>JEFFREY: So, the church took Jesus and did that on Satan. 48:16 >>JAMES: And the arrows of conviction or the arrows of 48:19 love, this is the weapon. 48:20 >>TY: The weapon is the gospel. 48:22 >>JAMES: And it's all through Revelation 12. 48:24 The woman brought forth, brought forth, brought, what 48:25 did she bring forth? 48:26 The man child. 48:27 What is the man child? 48:27 He's the weapon. 48:28 What is the man child? 48:29 He's the thing that the church is bringing forth in 48:31 Revelation chapter 6, when that church goes forth 48:32 conquering and to conquer. 48:34 >>DAVID: Reminds me of the text of Paul where he says the 48:35 weapons of our warfare are not carnal. 48:37 >>JAMES: And look at this, look at this. 48:39 >>TY: Mighty through God, through the pulling down of 48:40 strongholds, casting down arguments. 48:44 >>DAVID: And every high thing that exalts itself against the 48:46 knowledge of God. 48:48 >>TY: And bringing into captivity every thought. 48:50 Isn't that interesting? 48:51 All the language is knowledge, thought... 48:54 >>JAMES: And here's the final language, and this is 48:56 Revelation 6 again, verse 2, and he that sat in heaven had 49:00 a bow and a crown was given unto him and he went forth 49:03 conquering and to conquer. 49:06 There's this warfare that's taking place. 49:08 This church is going forth conquering and to conquer. 49:11 So, the warfare language is there, but the war is 49:14 completely different than what we understand it to be. 49:16 >>TY: It's interesting because the medieval church, the 49:19 church that remained above ground that was, yeah, the 49:22 visible church, that was the thing that actually wasn't the 49:24 thing, that wasn't the real church, took scripture and its 49:28 warfare language and actually engaged in using weapons, the 49:39 weapons of civil power and military power, the weapons of 49:42 swords. 49:44 >>DAVID: Can you imagine? 49:45 I stab you in the name of Jesus, I burn you in the name 49:46 of Jesus and Jesus is like... 49:47 >>JAMES: I behead you in the name of God. 49:49 >>DAVID: No, you don't, no, you don't. 49:53 >>JAMES: It's happening today. 49:54 >>DAVID: You can say that all you want, but no, you don't. 49:56 >>TY: A crucifix in one hand, a sword in the other hand, 49:58 convert or die. 50:00 So, people... 50:01 >>JEFFREY: Or even more modern, yeah, the gospel and 50:02 machine guns or grenades. 50:05 >>TY: When I was down in Peru a few years ago, the local 50:08 people told me the story of the Catholic conquistadors 50:13 that landed on their shores and on large stallions with 50:17 the crucifix in one hand, the sword in the other hand, and 50:20 they told the Inca chief, we're gonna build a room, you 50:25 fill it with gold by this time, or you die. 50:29 He filled it with gold, fulfilled their demands, and 50:34 they still executed him, in the name of Jesus, and then, 50:37 after executing the chief, proceeded to force the Inca 50:42 people to convert to Christianity on pain of death. 50:45 So, it's not surprising that much of South and Central 50:49 America is quote unquote Christian, but it's Christian 50:53 on a premise that is contrary to the character of God. 50:57 >>DAVID: So, in Revelation 12, because we've got just a few 51:01 minutes left in this final session, do you guys feel like 51:05 you've covered 7-12, I mean, we've certainly not. 51:08 >>TY: But we've gotta move on, though, 'cause we have to look 51:11 at verses 13 and onward, don't we? 51:13 >>DAVID: So, at the cross, verse 10, yes, we do, at the 51:15 cross, verse 10, at the cross, the kingdom of our God, the 51:19 power of his Christ and all that is come, verse 11, they, 51:21 that is to say, the church of God, the followers of Jesus, 51:23 overcame by the blood of the Lamb, that's the weapons of 51:25 their warfare, which are not carnal, it's the gospel, they 51:29 did not, and by the word of their testimony, their own 51:31 personal experience with Christ, his goodness, by the 51:34 Spirit, they did not love their lives to the death, 51:36 there's no need to if Jesus conquered death, you're gonna 51:40 get raised form the dead anyway. 51:41 >>JAMES: That's beautiful right there because that's the 51:42 disarming, that's the weapon. 51:43 >>DAVID: Yeah, that's right, one of those weapons is death. 51:45 Verse 12, therefore, on the basis of this casting down, 51:49 this sequential casting down, rejoice, oh, heavens, Satan 51:53 doesn't have access there anymore, and you who dwell on 51:55 them, but woe to the inhabitants of the earth and 51:58 in the sea, for the devil has come down to you, having great 51:59 wrath. 52:00 Why? 52:01 Why is he so fired up? 52:02 Well, because he knows he has a short time. 52:03 His weapons are, you know, being sequentially, 52:06 systematically broken, the last little place that he has, 52:09 the little toehold that he has in the universe is earth. 52:11 >>JAMES: Let's stop right there for a second, because I 52:15 think, we don't wanna go to these verses, we don't need to 52:18 go to these verses, but I think what Ty said is 52:20 important, and that is, have we covered 7 and onward 52:24 sufficiently, and I got the indication from Ty that, no we 52:27 haven't, and so, this would be a really good place to double 52:30 back and hit it hard, and that is verse 12, because it says 52:32 here, therefore, rejoice ye heavens and ye that dwell in 52:36 them, but woe to the inhabitants of the earth and 52:38 of the sea. 52:39 What's happening right there? 52:40 In the whole context of what we've looked at here, this 52:43 kind of this interlude, if you will, verses 7 and onward, 52:46 Paul was, I mean, excuse me, John was just writing the 52:49 church, and then, he starts talking about heaven. 52:52 Well, what happened in verse 12? 52:54 What is the whole point here? 52:55 The whole point here is what we've been talking about, that 52:58 the heavens are rejoicing because Satan has been 53:01 unmasked. 53:03 He's been seen. 53:04 He deceived a third of the angels and the angels that 53:05 didn't fall with him still had a question in their mind, you 53:08 know, these accusations, is there any truth to them? 53:11 And it wasn't until the cross that that was completely 53:14 unmasked. 53:15 >>JEFFREY: It's settled in heaven but not on earth. 53:16 >>JAMES: And that's what verse 12 is saying. 53:19 >>JEFFREY: Business is still, you know, the mission still 53:25 needs to be completed on earth. 53:26 >>DAVID: On that note, I find it so interesting. 53:29 In one of the gospels, Jesus shows up, gospel of Luke, the 53:34 two demoniacs, Jesus gets off the shore, walks on, one of 53:37 the demoniacs runs down and says, we know who you are, 53:39 you're Jesus, the Son of God, you've come to torment us 53:42 before the time. 53:43 Okay, I love to ask people this question, what do these 53:45 demons, fallen angels, believe about God and his character? 53:49 You went out of your way just to come here to this little, 53:51 you know, out of the way shore to torture us. 53:54 They have bought the lie. 53:56 >>JEFFREY: They still believe it. 53:57 >>DAVID: They have bought the lie. 53:59 And Jesus doesn't come to, I'd like to say this, Jesus didn't 54:02 come to the earth to torture, he came willing to be 54:09 tortured. 54:10 >>JAMES: Yes, praise God, and you know what's really 54:12 interesting about that whole story is, they say, don't do 54:15 this to us, and Jesus says, okay, what do you want me to 54:17 do? 54:17 It's up to... 54:19 >>DAVID: We wanna go over there. 54:19 He's like, okay. 54:20 >>JAMES: But get this, it's up to you. 54:22 Your destiny is up to you. 54:24 I'm not gonna determine it, you're gonna determine your 54:27 destiny. 54:28 You're gonna determine it. 54:29 >>JEFFREY: You gotta land the plane, Ty. 54:30 >>TY: What are you gonna do with verses 13-17 in the 54:32 minute and 30 seconds you have left, David? 54:35 >>JEFFREY: Just say those are awesome, awesome verses. 54:37 >>DAVID: They're awesome verses and we'll come to them 54:38 in our next session. 54:40 >>JAMES: No, we'll come to them in our landby session. 54:42 >>DAVID: Yeah, 'cause it flows, you have the woman 54:44 fleeing into the wilderness, the earth helps. 54:46 Well, the earth shows up hugely in Revelation 13. 54:48 There's this whole beast that comes up out of the earth. 54:50 So, we have to remember, the chapter divisions in scripture 54:53 are artificial. 54:55 We're dealing with themes, and that theme is wrapped up 54:57 pretty well. 54:59 And we'll pick up that, resume that them in our next session. 55:02 >>TY: That'll work. 55:03 So, to summarize, in Revelation 12 so far, we 55:07 essentially have the woman, which is the church, both Old 55:12 Testament, New Testament era, giving birth to Christ, he 55:15 comes into the world, the devil, working through earthly 55:18 systems, namely the Roman empire, tries to conquer Jesus 55:23 by crucifixion. 55:24 Jesus, by his crucifixion, ironically enough, conquers 55:29 the kingdom of darkness by truth and love, by revealing 55:33 the character of God, which runs counter to the claims 55:35 that Satan has made against the character of God. 55:39 The devil then realizes, well, wait a minute, my gig is up, 55:42 the only thing I can do now is persecute the church. 55:45 So, the persecution of the church post-Calvary is what we 55:51 find in the remainder of Revelation 12 that we will be 55:54 coming back to later, and chapter 13, which we will come 55:58 back to as we seek to unpack chapter 13 and realize more 56:03 fully what's going on in those final verses. 56:05 So, this has been a good discussion. 56:06 [Music] 56:09 So, this has been a good discussion. |
Revised 2018-01-16