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>>TY: Hey, guys, I wanna
begin by asking you another
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kind of impromptu question,
what is the most incredible,
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or I don't know, the most fun
experience you've ever had in
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nature.
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Some experience where
you encountered something in
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nature where it just blew
your mind, took you to a whole
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different place, you were
like, oh, this is amazing.
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>>JEFFREY: Swimming with
whale sharks off the coast of
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Mexico.
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>>TY: That's for you.
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>>JEFFREY: Number one.
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>>TY: Swimming with
whale sharks off the coast...
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>>JEFFREY: Beat that.
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>>DAVID: Well, I don't know
if I can beat that, but I will
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say, for me, I don't' have
one, but I'll give you one of
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my favorites.
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Seeing a pair of resplendent
quetzals in the jungles of
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Costa Rica.
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>>JEFFREY: A what?
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>>DAVID: Considered one of
the most beautiful birds in the
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world, resplendent
quetzal, look it up.
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Beat that.
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>>JAMES: Hm.
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>>TY: James?
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>>JAMES: Going for a canoe
ride down the river, it was
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just awesome, beautiful.
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>>DAVID: Which river?
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>>JAMES: It was the inlet
off the redwoods in California.
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Yeah.
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>>TY: Wow, wow, wow.
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>>DAVID: So, obviously,
this is a setup, Ty's gonna be
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like, oh, that's nothing.
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>>TY: That's nothing.
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>>JEFFREY: I jumped
into a volcano once.
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>>JAMES: The dolphins on the
coast of Hawaii, sorry to pop
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that balloon.
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>>TY: For me, and honestly,
there's nothing, there's
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another experience that comes
close, but for me, the best
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experience I've ever had in
nature was swimming with about
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60 dolphins off the coast of,
I think it was Kawaii, and it
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was amazing.
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They were with me, I was with
them, I guess you would say,
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and they circled me when
I tried to go the opposite
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direction as if to say, hey,
we're going this way, come on,
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this is the way we're going.
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It was amazing.
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It was an amazing experience.
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>>DAVID: I've only ever
swum with about 2,000 dolphins.
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>>TY: Is that true?
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>>DAVID: Off the coast of New
Zealand, it's absolutely true,
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I've done it many times.
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True story.
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>>TY: I've only done it once.
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>>JEFFREY: That
kinda backfired on you, Ty.
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>>JAMES: Ty didn't even
know if they were dolphins or
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sharks when he jumped in.
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>>DAVID: Are you serious?
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>>TY: I didn't know, but
very quickly, I discovered they
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were dolphins.
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>>DAVID: A shark's tail goes
like this, a shark's tail is
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oriented vertically, so
when their dorsal fin, it moves
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side to side.
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Dolphins, their tail is
oriented horizontally, so they
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move up and down.
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>>TY: Yeah, it was
just very brief though.
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>>JAMES: Isn't the tail just
a little bit different, too?
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>>DAVID: He didn't
see the dolphin tail.
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>>JAMES: I mean the fin.
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>>DAVID: Yeah, the fin is a
slightly different shape, but
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when you're out
paddling in the water...
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>>JEFFREY: I think he was
going somewhere or something.
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>>TY: I was going
somewhere with it.
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And where I was going with it
is we have been looking at the
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book of Revelation, we've
come to chapter 12, we've gotten
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through verse 6, and now,
the church of God is in the
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wilderness, but the experience
that they're having in the
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wilderness is
not a positive one.
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It's a positive experience
in that it's a refuge for them,
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but it's a negative experience
in that they are pressed into
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the wilderness, forced into
the wilderness because they're
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under persecution.
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So, let's just look at
chapter 12 of Revelation.
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>>DAVID: So, the tie in
is, I'm missing the tie in.
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>>JEFFREY: The wilderness.
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>>TY: Oh, there's no connection.
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>>JEFFREY: The
church in the wilderness.
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>>DAVID: So,
nature, okay, got you.
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Sorry, I was just trying to...
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>>TY: David.
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>>DAVID: I needed that
synapse to fire, I'm sorry.
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I got it now.
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>>TY: There's really no
connection, I just was curious
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what your happiest
experience in nature was.
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>>DAVID: But I did not
have the experience of them
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circling me and saying,
hey, no, we're going this way.
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They just all streamed by me.
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>>TY: So, my experience
was better than yours.
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>>DAVID: Well, it's a tie.
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[Laughter]
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>>TY: One time, I'll just
throw this out, my second was
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we built a fort in a tree
just about 20 feet away from
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nesting eagles.
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And then, we just sat up
there and waited and waited and
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waited until they got
comfortable with the fact that
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we were there and then just
straight over, we could just
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watch what they
were doing, for days.
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>>DAVID: This is
when you were younger.
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>>TY: I was in my 20s.
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>>DAVID: So, not
like, as a child.
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For some reason, when you
said tree fort, I thought child.
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>>TY: No, it was me and a
photographer friend of mine,
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who, we just saw these eagles,
we thought, oh, there's a
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tree, let's just go up there
and build this fort and we'll
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just watch.
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Anyways, so.
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>>DAVID: Well, the eagle thing
works out great here because
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you got the Revelation
12, the two wings of an eagle.
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>>TY: So, let's break it down,
we came through verse 1 and 5
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and now we're in verse 6,
somebody recap for us, though,
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what we've come through so far
in verses 1-5 in Revelation 12.
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>>DAVID: Basically,
you've got 3 figures that we've
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identified so far, the woman,
the child, and the dragon, and
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we've identified the woman
as the people of God, the child
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that was caught up to
the throne as Jesus, and the
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dragon as that old serpent
called the devil and Satan,
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and it's just...
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>>TY: And sometimes, though,
the dragon manifests himself
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in earthly systems
like the Roman empire.
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>>DAVID: The Roman empire,
Herrod trying to kill the
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children there in Bethlehem.
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So, what we've seen up to this
point is, there's a conflict.
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And he was ready to pounce,
to devour the child as soon as
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the child was
born, which happened.
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Jesus died on a Roman
instrument of torture, the
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cross, and he was put in
a tomb with a Roman seal.
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>>JEFFREY: Even before
then, at his birth, there was an
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attempt at his life.
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>>DAVID: I just preached
on that recently in Matthew
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chapters 1 and 2 and
basically, the point that I
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made was is, from the earliest
moment of Jesus's life, he was
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living the shadow of the cross.
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There's just always this sense
of peril that follows Jesus.
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>>TY: That's where I'm going.
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>>DAVID: Okay, great.
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>>TY: No, Jesus is knowing,
that's where I'm, that's where
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Jesus knows he's going.
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Yeah.
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So, chronologically, through
verses 1-5, we're up through
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the crucifixion.
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>>JAMES: Yeah, which, by
the way, we just wanted to
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mention, too, this is
the beginning of the fourth
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prophetic cycle.
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So, again, we're going
back to the life of Christ.
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Viewers might be thinking,
well, we're in the book of
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Revelation now, we're in
chapter 12, so we've moved way
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down in history, we must
be way down toward the end of
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time somewhere.
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No, we're actually starting
all over again when it comes
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to the understanding of history.
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We're looking at historicism,
so in the churches and seals
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and the trumpets, we
always go back to apostolic age.
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And we see that same cycle
begin here in Revelation 12,
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because we have Christ being
born of the woman, the Jewish
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church, and then, being called
up to heaven, so, we're in the
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apostolic age right here
and then, we're gonna go forward
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from there as we move into
the rest of chapter 12, we're
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gonna go forward from there
into that history that we've
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covered, we've
covered, we've covered.
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>>DAVID: So, this is
now a fourth journey.
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>>JAMES: Yes,
with different details.
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>>DAVID: So, we've hiked
it, we've walked it, we've flown
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over it, we've bike ridden it.
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What was, what else?
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We've canoed it.
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>>JAMES: We're
gonna canoe it this time.
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>>DAVID: I actually know a guy.
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>>JAMES: Lewis and Clarke.
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>>DAVID: I don't know them,
but I know a guy who canoed,
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true story, from New
York to San Francisco.
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>>JAMES: You can do it.
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>>DAVID: Yeah, you have to
do a number of fairly lengthy
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portages, but you can
canoe across the United States.
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>>JAMES: Amazing.
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>>DAVID: That's amazing.
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>>TY: Okay, so, verse 6.
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Verse 6, then the woman fled
into the wilderness, where she
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had a place prepared for
her by God, prepared by God.
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So, now, where are
we chronologically?
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The crucifixion has occurred,
New Testament Christianity.
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>>JEFFREY: Not just
crucifixion, ascension in
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verse 5, caught
up to the throne.
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>>TY: Okay, so crucifixion,
resurrection, ascension in
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verse 5, and then, the
first word of verse 6 is then.
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Okay, so the New Testament
church is thriving right here.
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You might insert
the whole book of Acts.
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Is that true?
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>>DAVID: Absolutely.
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>>TY: So, the whole book
of Acts can be inserted right
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here between verses 5 and 6.
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>>DAVID: Things are looking up.
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>>TY: This are looking
up, the church is flourishing.
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And then.
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>>DAVID: We should say,
though, that even in the
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apostolic period, John said
there were many antichrists in
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the world and Paul said,
from among your own selves, Acts
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20, men will arise,
speaking perverse things.
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The spirit of iniquity, the
mystery of iniquity is already
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at work.
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So, there was the anticipation
that even though things were
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looking up and flourishing, as
you said, that danger was very
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much on the horizon.
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And not just danger in
terms of persecution, but
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ultimately, in the
post-Constantinian era, danger
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in terms of coopting the
Christian message for purposes.
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So that's what's headed there.
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And that's, verse 6, then,
is the woman fleeing, I think
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that's where you were
going, into the wilderness.
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Where is that at?
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>>TY: Why is the woman fleeing
into the wilderness, I guess,
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is the question.
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Well, obviously, she's fleeing
into the wilderness because
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what you're just describing.
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There are antichrist forces
that are developing, that are
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growing, and
persecution is developing.
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And as persecution develops,
verse 6 is basically telling
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us that the church fled
into the wilderness, away from
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persecution.
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And there is a providence
element here because the place
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in the wilderness
is prepared by God.
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In the sense that God
providentially is preserving
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his people by
taking them underground.
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And in the wilderness means
that they are vanishing from
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historical, obvious
observation and sight, and
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this is a very important point.
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The church that we see visibly
unfolding in the book of Acts,
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with Christ, the disciples,
in the book of Acts, that church
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begins to vanish from historic
observation in a sense, and
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the thing that the
historians are commenting on as
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Christianity becomes the
antichrist that's masquerading
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as the Christian church.
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>>DAVID: The Christian
church has gone underground.
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>>TY: So, the real thing has
gone under and the thing that
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historians are observing,
the church, is really not the
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thing.
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>>JEFFREY: The parallel, it's,
the time frame in the second
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part of verse 6 is a
continuation from the previous
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chapter where we were at,
which we didn't really get
00:10:06.53\00:10:08.70
into.
00:10:08.70\00:10:09.94
In verse 2, Revelation 11,
42 months, and then, in verse 3,
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the witnesses that are
prophesying in sack cloth for
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1,260 days.
00:10:20.72\00:10:26.86
And you know, the
reader clearly sees that that's
00:10:26.86\00:10:29.36
exactly the time frame
in chapter 12, verse 6.
00:10:29.36\00:10:31.56
So, we asked.
00:10:31.56\00:10:32.99
>>TY: That went by really fast.
00:10:32.99\00:10:34.93
Yeah, what you're pointing
out is that back in chapter 11,
00:10:34.93\00:10:40.90
back in chapter 11, there are
two references to a period of
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time.
00:10:43.84\00:10:45.07
1260 days, it's called, or 42
months, which is equivalent to
00:10:45.07\00:10:47.91
1260 days.
00:10:47.91\00:10:49.28
And then, that period of
time now is showing up again in
00:10:49.28\00:10:51.51
chapter 12, verse 6.
00:10:51.51\00:10:54.08
>>JEFFREY: And in connection
to the woman going into the
00:10:54.08\00:10:55.75
wilderness.
00:10:55.75\00:10:56.79
So, we ask, why is she
going into the wilderness?
00:10:56.79\00:10:59.92
And the answer to that
question is hinted at in
00:10:59.92\00:11:02.06
chapter 11.
00:11:02.06\00:11:03.16
Because it says that, for
that very same chunk of time.
00:11:03.16\00:11:07.23
>>JAMES: 42 months, 1260 days.
00:11:07.23\00:11:08.73
>>JEFFREY: 1260 days, the
witnesses are prophesying in
00:11:08.73\00:11:12.20
sack cloth, and we identified
that, last discussion, that's
00:11:12.20\00:11:15.30
a symbol of mourning.
00:11:15.30\00:11:16.94
Why is the word of God mourning?
00:11:16.94\00:11:19.31
The two witnesses, the word
of God, why is the word of God
00:11:19.31\00:11:21.01
mourning?
00:11:21.01\00:11:22.14
And so, we described this
period of darkness where the
00:11:22.14\00:11:25.18
word of God has
to go underground.
00:11:25.18\00:11:27.58
>>TY: And history itself has
acknowledged that this is the
00:11:27.58\00:11:30.09
quote unquote dark ages.
00:11:30.09\00:11:32.65
It's dark scientifically,
it's dark technologically, it's
00:11:32.65\00:11:36.76
dark with, art has become...
00:11:36.76\00:11:40.46
>>JEFFREY: Socially
and religiously, too.
00:11:40.46\00:11:43.30
>>TY: Yeah, on
every level, it's dark.
00:11:43.30\00:11:44.50
>>JAMES: So, let's just point
out one thing right here and
00:11:44.50\00:11:46.13
that is, one of the reasons
why we're not spending a lot
00:11:46.13\00:11:48.84
of time, and when I say a
lot of time, I mean, verse 5,
00:11:48.84\00:11:51.54
verse 6, we're not spending
a lot of time expounding upon
00:11:51.54\00:11:54.11
the actual history of the dark
ages, it's because the book of
00:11:54.11\00:11:57.11
Revelation has
already done that.
00:11:57.11\00:11:58.55
So, in the 7 churches, we
talked about Smyrna and the
00:11:58.55\00:12:01.68
persecution of the pagan
realm, and then we talked
00:12:01.68\00:12:03.39
about Pergamum and the
exaltation of the church in
00:12:03.39\00:12:05.39
the world and compromise.
00:12:05.39\00:12:06.82
Then, we talked about Thyatira
and Jezebel and the false
00:12:06.82\00:12:08.96
prophet.
00:12:08.96\00:12:09.86
That history, those
details are covered.
00:12:09.86\00:12:11.63
Yeah, so, now, as we get to
the last prophetic cycle, John
00:12:11.63\00:12:15.00
is saying, now, there's
something more significant
00:12:15.00\00:12:17.23
that we really
need to emphasize here.
00:12:17.23\00:12:19.13
>>DAVID: Keep
going, I'm with you.
00:12:19.13\00:12:20.74
>>JAMES: And that more
significant thing, but we need
00:12:20.74\00:12:22.74
to mention this because this
verse right here will connect
00:12:22.74\00:12:24.94
with chapter 11, will connect
with Pergamum and Thyatira,
00:12:24.94\00:12:28.08
but the more significant thing
we need to talk about here is,
00:12:28.08\00:12:31.35
where did this all start?
00:12:31.35\00:12:32.95
How did this defamation of
God's character, how did this
00:12:32.95\00:12:35.72
misrepresentation, this church
went underground and then,
00:12:35.72\00:12:38.55
this church that was out
from that everyone saw was just
00:12:38.55\00:12:41.26
totally misrepresented
God, leading into the French
00:12:41.26\00:12:43.29
Revolution.
00:12:43.29\00:12:44.29
How did this all start?
00:12:44.29\00:12:45.66
Where did it all start?
00:12:45.66\00:12:46.83
>>TY: That's from verse 7
onward, well, not onward, but
00:12:46.83\00:12:48.73
yeah.
00:12:48.73\00:12:49.93
>>JAMES: And that's why we have
the interruption in verse 7.
00:12:49.93\00:12:52.40
Verses 7, 8, 9, and 10 kind
of, it seems like, why is that
00:12:52.40\00:12:54.54
there?
00:12:54.54\00:12:55.37
What is that doing there?
00:12:55.37\00:12:56.57
>>TY: But before we look at
where that came from, because
00:12:56.57\00:12:58.07
that's a vital connection, do
we wanna, Jeffrey was about to
00:12:58.07\00:13:01.71
tell us what that 1260
year period of time is.
00:13:01.71\00:13:04.15
We'd have to go back to it.
00:13:04.15\00:13:05.38
We can do it later
or we can do it now.
00:13:05.38\00:13:07.38
>>JAMES: Well, the reason why
I say this is because the way
00:13:07.38\00:13:09.75
the book of Revelation is
written, we could actually
00:13:09.75\00:13:11.79
cover 7-10 and talk about, you
know, how, and then, the book
00:13:11.79\00:13:17.19
resumes, it naturally resumes
and goes back and fills out
00:13:17.19\00:13:21.43
the picture that takes
us right into Revelation 13.
00:13:21.43\00:13:24.73
>>TY: And the 1260 year period
of time comes up, could be
00:13:24.73\00:13:29.27
defined then.
00:13:29.27\00:13:30.21
So, let's do that,
let's go into verses 7.
00:13:30.21\00:13:32.41
So, James, take us to, now,
we're asking, what we're doing
00:13:32.41\00:13:37.05
is we're pushing a pause
on verse 6, there's something
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.51
there that we haven't defined,
but we're coming back to it,
00:13:39.51\00:13:42.08
and what James is pointing
out is that now, what's gonna
00:13:42.08\00:13:45.29
happen is, starting with verse
7, John is about to say to us,
00:13:45.29\00:13:49.16
okay, let me explain to you
where all this really began.
00:13:49.16\00:13:52.13
>>JAMES: And that's the point.
00:13:52.13\00:13:53.36
The point is for those who are
reading the book of Revelation
00:13:53.36\00:13:55.33
and they're just following
through, the point is, why are
00:13:55.33\00:13:57.33
we jumping out of this?
00:13:57.33\00:13:58.40
And so, we're explaining that.
00:13:58.40\00:13:59.60
The reason we're jumping to
this is because John wants to
00:13:59.60\00:14:01.67
take us back to what actually
caused all of this mess.
00:14:01.67\00:14:05.11
And there's a really
interesting verse here, I
00:14:05.11\00:14:07.41
mean, a really
interesting phrase here.
00:14:07.41\00:14:09.41
Let's just read through
the verses and then we'll
00:14:09.41\00:14:11.41
highlight this phrase.
00:14:11.41\00:14:12.71
Verse 7, and there was war
in heaven and Michael and his
00:14:12.71\00:14:15.65
angels fought against the
dragon and the dragon fought
00:14:15.65\00:14:18.49
in his angels and prevailed not.
00:14:18.49\00:14:20.52
Neither was their place,
emphasis on that word, found
00:14:20.52\00:14:23.89
anymore in heaven and the
great dragon was cast out,
00:14:23.89\00:14:27.13
that old serpent called the
devil and Satan which deceived
00:14:27.13\00:14:29.20
the whole world, he was
cast out into the earth and his
00:14:29.20\00:14:33.10
angels were cast out with him.
00:14:33.10\00:14:34.44
And I heard a loud voice
saying in heaven, now has come
00:14:34.44\00:14:39.17
salvation and strength, and
the kingdom of our God and the
00:14:39.17\00:14:42.51
power of his Christ, for
the accuser of our brethren is
00:14:42.51\00:14:45.38
cast down which accused them
before God day and night, and
00:14:45.38\00:14:48.92
they overcame them by the
blood of the Lamb, by the word
00:14:48.92\00:14:51.35
of their testimony and they
loved not their lives unto the
00:14:51.35\00:14:53.66
death.
00:14:53.66\00:14:54.89
Therefore, rejoice ye heavens
and ye that dwell on them, woe
00:14:54.89\00:14:59.19
to the inhabitants of the
earth and of the sea, for the
00:14:59.19\00:15:01.36
devil has come down unto you,
having great wrath because he
00:15:01.36\00:15:05.00
knows he has but a short time.
00:15:05.00\00:15:06.53
>>TY: What a passage.
00:15:06.53\00:15:07.54
>>JAMES: These
are incredible verses.
00:15:07.54\00:15:09.54
And there's a word here
that connects with the previous
00:15:09.54\00:15:12.77
verse and that, verse 6, I
should say, and that word is
00:15:12.77\00:15:16.51
place.
00:15:16.51\00:15:17.68
And I just wanna start our
discussion by emphasizing this
00:15:17.68\00:15:21.45
word.
00:15:21.45\00:15:22.92
When this rebellion began
in heaven, Satan and his angels
00:15:22.92\00:15:26.96
lost their place.
00:15:26.96\00:15:29.36
The woman is given a
place by God in the wilderness.
00:15:29.36\00:15:34.10
The first of humankind, Adam
and Eve, in the Garden of Eden,
00:15:34.10\00:15:37.47
when they were deceived by the
serpent, they lost their place
00:15:37.47\00:15:39.17
in the Garden of Eden.
00:15:39.17\00:15:42.00
When the Jewish nation were
deceived and rejecting Christ,
00:15:42.00\00:15:44.44
they lost their place as God's
designated people, and when
00:15:44.44\00:15:47.88
you get to the end of the book
of Revelation, and the final
00:15:47.88\00:15:50.61
judgement takes place,
the books are opened after the
00:15:50.61\00:15:53.98
1,000 years, the wicked look
up and they see the whole plan
00:15:53.98\00:15:57.85
of redemption and the
description that is given of
00:15:57.85\00:16:00.59
their situation is
that they have no place.
00:16:00.59\00:16:04.16
There's no place found for them.
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.93
Can you imagine what it would
feel like to have no place?
00:16:05.93\00:16:08.06
And then, there's another
verse in John 14 and it says
00:16:08.06\00:16:11.30
that Jesus is talking to
his disciples and accompanying
00:16:11.30\00:16:14.24
them and he says...
00:16:14.24\00:16:15.40
>>DAVID: I go to
prepare a place for you.
00:16:15.40\00:16:17.24
>>JAMES: It's all about a place.
00:16:17.24\00:16:20.01
God is describing to us that
through the deception of Satan
00:16:20.01\00:16:23.88
we, and the whole human race,
has lost their place and God
00:16:23.88\00:16:27.52
wants to restore that place.
00:16:27.52\00:16:29.78
And the reason why it's so
important about the wilderness
00:16:29.78\00:16:31.79
is because God has a
place for this woman.
00:16:31.79\00:16:33.62
Even though the whole world
will reject, even though the
00:16:33.62\00:16:37.19
whole world is opposing,
God has a place for his people,
00:16:37.19\00:16:40.06
and that's the
focus of the tenner here.
00:16:40.06\00:16:42.60
>>JEFFREY: On that, the whole
preparing a place, you just
00:16:42.60\00:16:44.30
reminded me, in Matthew 25,
when Jesus tells the parable
00:16:44.30\00:16:46.84
of the sheep and the goat
at the end, it says here, then,
00:16:46.84\00:16:50.81
he shall say to those on the
left hand, depart from me, you
00:16:50.81\00:16:53.34
cursed, into the everlasting
fire, prepared for the devil
00:16:53.34\00:16:57.55
and his angels.
00:16:57.55\00:16:58.58
And so, I just thought,
that's a beautiful thing.
00:16:58.58\00:17:00.35
Anybody who's lost ends
up in a place that was never
00:17:00.35\00:17:03.12
prepared for them, right.
00:17:03.12\00:17:05.12
God never intended for that.
00:17:05.12\00:17:06.42
>>DAVID: The place that
God has prepared and deemed for
00:17:06.42\00:17:08.29
humanity is the new
heaven and new earth.
00:17:08.29\00:17:10.06
humanity is the new
heaven and new earth.
00:17:10.06\00:17:10.93
>>TY: Okay, so,
yeah, thanks, James.
00:17:11.03\00:17:13.93
Those are connections
those verses that I had never
00:17:13.93\00:17:17.33
noticed before and it
highlights, again, something
00:17:17.33\00:17:21.10
very practical and that is,
it highlights the relationality
00:17:21.10\00:17:25.81
of God, that God, we're
not dealing in Revelation with
00:17:25.81\00:17:30.55
merely world powers and
empires and you know, the
00:17:30.55\00:17:35.68
devil and his angels and
a God who is presiding with
00:17:35.68\00:17:41.82
sovereignty over
a bunch of events.
00:17:41.82\00:17:44.83
God is relating to people and
we're those people and at the
00:17:44.83\00:17:49.83
heart of the whole thing,
I think this is incredible,
00:17:49.83\00:17:52.97
you're calling our attention
to the fact that, at the heart
00:17:52.97\00:17:55.90
of the whole thing, there's
a place that God is preparing
00:17:55.90\00:17:58.41
for us and he is trying to
navigate his people through
00:17:58.41\00:18:03.04
his providence to that place
where we're back with him in
00:18:03.04\00:18:07.42
fellowship and
that's incredible.
00:18:07.42\00:18:09.85
So, we need to unpack
these verses further, but now we
00:18:09.85\00:18:14.06
need to take a break, but when
we come back, let's talk about
00:18:14.06\00:18:17.49
this war that
broke out in heaven.
00:18:17.49\00:18:20.00
>>JAMES: Okay.
00:18:20.00\00:18:21.60
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>>TY: So, we came to verse 7
and we read through verse 12,
00:20:29.69\00:20:32.89
James, and you called our
attention to this incredible
00:20:32.89\00:20:35.80
point, this
comparison of the word place.
00:20:35.80\00:20:39.43
God's nurturing care in
verse 6 over his people,
00:20:39.43\00:20:44.01
providentially in the context
of suffering and persecution,
00:20:44.01\00:20:47.91
God has prepared a place of
protection and nourishment in
00:20:47.91\00:20:56.18
the wilderness for his people,
but then you broadened that
00:20:56.18\00:20:59.35
picture by pointing out that
this is a theme in scripture,
00:20:59.35\00:21:03.39
at least in the New Testament,
where Jesus is preparing a
00:21:03.39\00:21:06.19
place for us and the final
demise of the wicked, which we
00:21:06.19\00:21:08.96
often just think in terms
of, well, they're gonna be
00:21:08.96\00:21:11.07
destroyed, but
it's more than that.
00:21:11.07\00:21:14.80
They enter into a position,
according to Revelation
00:21:14.80\00:21:18.51
chapter 20, verse 11, they
enter into a place where they
00:21:18.51\00:21:22.51
realize that the way they
think and feel and do life is
00:21:22.51\00:21:27.08
completely out of sync
with the way the universe really
00:21:27.08\00:21:31.55
operates and God's kingdom
of love and other-centeredness
00:21:31.55\00:21:34.19
and relational integrity,
so they don't fit with the
00:21:34.19\00:21:39.16
ultimate system of
love, and they realize that
00:21:39.16\00:21:41.06
there's no place for them.
00:21:41.06\00:21:43.73
Can you imagine, you were
bringing this out and I just
00:21:43.73\00:21:46.47
wanna emphasize it, can
you imagine being in a state of
00:21:46.47\00:21:49.14
mind where you realize
that you don't belong anywhere?
00:21:49.14\00:21:53.07
You don't have a home,
you have no resting place, you
00:21:53.07\00:21:55.31
have no relationships.
00:21:55.31\00:21:56.34
>>JEFFREY: People
associate hell with the fire.
00:21:56.34\00:21:59.11
Anytime you mention to
people hell or they read the
00:21:59.11\00:22:00.92
scripture, I think hell is
that moment of realization.
00:22:00.92\00:22:05.35
>>TY: That you don't
fit with the universe.
00:22:05.35\00:22:06.92
>>JEFFREY: You're out
of sync with the universe.
00:22:06.92\00:22:08.36
>>TY: With God, with his
character, with his people.
00:22:08.36\00:22:11.06
>>JEFFREY: And
you have no place.
00:22:11.06\00:22:12.29
That's hell, that's hell.
00:22:12.29\00:22:14.36
>>JAMES: It's also
significant, I think, that
00:22:14.36\00:22:16.10
this is mentioned.
00:22:16.10\00:22:17.33
Verse 6 talks about the place
that God has prepared and then
00:22:17.33\00:22:19.90
verse 7 talks about, in the
context, verse 8, talks about
00:22:19.90\00:22:24.21
the place that
Satan and his angels lost.
00:22:24.21\00:22:26.84
And so, what we see here
is God connecting together two
00:22:26.84\00:22:30.35
thoughts, and the thought
is this, the angles and Lucifer
00:22:30.35\00:22:33.48
that fell from heaven
are going to be replaced.
00:22:33.48\00:22:36.08
They're gonna be replaced.
00:22:36.08\00:22:37.42
They were lost, they've lost
their place and God has given
00:22:37.42\00:22:41.06
us a place.
00:22:41.06\00:22:42.22
And that place, ultimately
that God has given us, whether
00:22:42.22\00:22:44.29
it's in the wilderness, hated
by the world, but we have a
00:22:44.29\00:22:46.73
place with God, whether it's
individuals, God has a place
00:22:46.73\00:22:50.63
for every single human being
on planet earth, whoever they
00:22:50.63\00:22:52.90
are, whatever they are, if
they give their lives to him,
00:22:52.90\00:22:55.64
he's gonna let
that place be fulfilled.
00:22:55.64\00:22:57.21
That place ultimately leads
us to the very position that I
00:22:57.21\00:23:01.74
think the angels fell from
in the context of Revelation
00:23:01.74\00:23:03.75
as well.
00:23:03.75\00:23:04.85
>>TY: I think it's an
incredible point because we're
00:23:04.85\00:23:06.05
social creatures, we're built
for relationship, there's a
00:23:06.05\00:23:08.42
reason we're
sitting at this table.
00:23:08.42\00:23:10.69
We, there are four of us here,
and we each have a place in
00:23:10.69\00:23:15.02
this conversation and there's
something beautiful about it.
00:23:15.02\00:23:18.79
It's different than being
alone in the world and we're
00:23:18.79\00:23:22.26
doing this table talk
situation in order to broaden
00:23:22.26\00:23:25.83
that place, to bring
other people to the table, to
00:23:25.83\00:23:28.24
encourage, and this
scripture's just coming to my
00:23:28.24\00:23:30.67
mind right now, what about
1 John, chapter 1, where John
00:23:30.67\00:23:34.41
says, hey, we saw him, touched
him, felt him, we heard his
00:23:34.41\00:23:38.71
word, we were in his very
presence and the whole reason
00:23:38.71\00:23:41.58
we're telling you these
things, preaching the gospel,
00:23:41.58\00:23:44.12
the whole reason we're telling
you these things is so that
00:23:44.12\00:23:46.42
you can have fellowship with
us and truly our fellowship is
00:23:46.42\00:23:48.76
with him.
00:23:48.76\00:23:49.92
The whole thing is headed
toward a big, giant, beautiful
00:23:49.92\00:23:53.23
social network of people
who belong to one another in a
00:23:53.23\00:23:57.80
very beautiful way.
00:23:57.80\00:24:00.84
And that theme is in the book
of Revelation, it's beautiful.
00:24:00.84\00:24:06.27
>>JEFFREY: And at the moment
in history where Christians
00:24:06.27\00:24:08.28
would have felt least support,
least supported by God or by
00:24:08.28\00:24:10.98
providence is the moment
where they're specifically, the
00:24:10.98\00:24:14.02
church is identified as
being, you keep using the word
00:24:14.02\00:24:17.05
nurtured, nurtured by God,
and I guess we'll run into it
00:24:17.05\00:24:19.95
again, but it's
right there in verse 14.
00:24:19.95\00:24:21.96
In her place, she
is nurtured by God.
00:24:21.96\00:24:24.59
>>DAVID: In her place.
00:24:24.59\00:24:25.59
>>JEFFREY: In her place, so.
00:24:25.59\00:24:27.23
>>DAVID: Jeffrey mentioned
Matthew 25 there about how
00:24:27.23\00:24:29.90
prepared for the devil and
his angels, and I think it's
00:24:29.90\00:24:33.57
important to recognize
that you know, we all have good
00:24:33.57\00:24:36.91
situations, I'm happily
married 17 years, you're
00:24:36.91\00:24:39.24
happily married longer
than that, for like 50 years.
00:24:39.24\00:24:42.21
[Laughter]
00:24:42.21\00:24:43.21
Happily
married, happily married.
00:24:43.21\00:24:45.21
>>TY: So, did I get
married before I was born?
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.22
>>DAVID: Before you were born.
00:24:47.22\00:24:48.42
So, anyway, the point here
is that, like, we've got a good
00:24:48.42\00:24:51.55
ministry, we're friends, we've
got a group of friends, but we
00:24:51.55\00:24:55.19
should realize that we live
a privileged life, a charmed
00:24:55.19\00:24:57.69
life, the Lord has blessed us.
00:24:57.69\00:24:59.13
Not everybody who's watching
this program has the support
00:24:59.13\00:25:02.16
network, has the
place that we have.
00:25:02.16\00:25:04.90
And you know, the truth of
the matter is, whether it's a
00:25:04.90\00:25:07.14
financial situation, an
emotional situation, a spousal
00:25:07.14\00:25:10.01
situation, people can
feel very lonely in this world,
00:25:10.01\00:25:13.88
very lonely.
00:25:13.88\00:25:14.91
Loneliness is an
epidemic right now and I suppose
00:25:14.91\00:25:16.88
there's many things that
we could say in a pastoral
00:25:16.88\00:25:19.78
capacity, but one of the
things is, is even when this
00:25:19.78\00:25:22.95
world, Revelation 12, you
know, when you don't feel like
00:25:22.95\00:25:25.62
you have a place, that's
the moment, and I think this was
00:25:25.62\00:25:28.46
your point, Jeffrey, and I
think God is the closest, that
00:25:28.46\00:25:30.83
God is the tenderest.
00:25:30.83\00:25:31.93
It's like that old footprints
thing, you know, the two
00:25:31.93\00:25:33.83
footprints and the, you
know, there was the one in the
00:25:33.83\00:25:36.23
darkest scenes in my life,
well, you know, why did you
00:25:36.23\00:25:38.23
leave me?
00:25:38.23\00:25:39.23
I was carrying you.
00:25:39.23\00:25:40.34
You know, God, even in
our darkest, most lonely, most
00:25:40.34\00:25:43.51
difficult moments,
God has a place for you.
00:25:43.51\00:25:46.27
He has a purpose for you, he
has a place for you, he has a
00:25:46.27\00:25:48.34
word for you.
00:25:48.34\00:25:49.51
You could be sitting in
a hospital bed right now,
00:25:49.51\00:25:51.51
watching this, maybe life,
the cancer test has come back
00:25:51.51\00:25:54.22
positive, you've lost a loved
one, and the world can start
00:25:54.22\00:25:57.92
to feel very alien.
00:25:57.92\00:25:59.09
I know we've all been there
at times in our lives, where
00:25:59.09\00:26:00.99
you've been like, do I
really belong somewhere?
00:26:00.99\00:26:03.69
And the message of God is,
yes, you do belong somewhere,
00:26:03.69\00:26:07.66
but there will never be a
sense on this earth where we
00:26:07.66\00:26:10.83
feel perfectly at home.
00:26:10.83\00:26:13.10
Where our...
00:26:13.10\00:26:14.10
>>JEFFREY: Or,
there ought never be.
00:26:14.10\00:26:16.10
>>DAVID: Yeah, that's right.
00:26:16.10\00:26:17.31
There should be a little bit
of discomfort, you know, like
00:26:17.31\00:26:19.11
a garment that doesn't quite
fit right about this earth.
00:26:19.11\00:26:21.11
God has a real place,
which I think was your big point
00:26:21.11\00:26:23.55
there, James, Revelation 21,
22, new heaven, new earth, no
00:26:23.55\00:26:27.65
more pain, no more death,
no more sorrow, former things
00:26:27.65\00:26:29.65
have passed away.
00:26:29.65\00:26:30.65
That's our place.
00:26:30.65\00:26:31.65
Right now, we're
all getting along.
00:26:31.65\00:26:34.02
Right, we're getting along
the best we can by the grace of
00:26:34.02\00:26:37.06
God in a situation
that's filled with conflict.
00:26:37.06\00:26:40.86
>>TY: And the world in general.
00:26:40.86\00:26:42.43
>>DAVID: Yeah, that world,
that's the world we live in.
00:26:42.43\00:26:43.60
You know, we began this
whole Revelation program talking
00:26:43.60\00:26:45.20
about Orlando and the
situation in Nice, France, and
00:26:45.20\00:26:48.94
all of that, like,
this is not our home.
00:26:48.94\00:26:52.11
>>TY: It's not.
00:26:52.11\00:26:53.31
What about the fact, this
just occurred to me, building on
00:26:53.31\00:26:57.08
this theme that James has
just brought up with the place
00:26:57.08\00:26:59.88
idea.
00:26:59.88\00:27:01.82
Isn't that just exactly what
Jesus endured on our behalf?
00:27:01.82\00:27:08.09
No place?
00:27:08.09\00:27:09.56
>>DAVID: He doesn't
have a place to lay his head.
00:27:09.56\00:27:12.43
>>TY: Didn't he, through
his life, experience a sense of
00:27:12.43\00:27:16.63
loneliness and isolation
because of the fact that he is
00:27:16.63\00:27:23.47
living and thinking only
in lines of love when there's
00:27:23.47\00:27:29.41
selfishness all around him?
00:27:29.41\00:27:31.21
And then, finally, when he
comes to the cross and says,
00:27:31.21\00:27:33.85
my God, my God, why
have you forsaken me?
00:27:33.85\00:27:36.22
Doesn't Jesus feel the
ultimate loneliness and
00:27:36.22\00:27:39.52
isolation on the cross in
separation from the Father?
00:27:39.52\00:27:44.93
He endured that in order to
bring us back into fellowship
00:27:44.93\00:27:52.50
with himself and the Father.
00:27:52.50\00:27:54.77
>>JAMES: And that's what
we're reading in these verses.
00:27:54.77\00:27:56.71
Ty, you've taken us right into
Revelation chapter 12 and here
00:27:56.71\00:28:01.91
in verse, I think it's 10, and
I heard a loud voice saying in
00:28:01.91\00:28:05.71
heaven, now is come salvation
and strength and the power of
00:28:05.71\00:28:08.28
our God and the kingdom of
our God and the power of his
00:28:08.28\00:28:11.29
Christ, for the accuser of
our brethren is cast down, which
00:28:11.29\00:28:14.52
accused them
before God day and night.
00:28:14.52\00:28:16.52
Now, keep your hand right
here, and just go over to John
00:28:16.52\00:28:20.36
chapter 12, the gospel of
John chapter 12 is making a
00:28:20.36\00:28:25.07
connection here with Revelation.
00:28:25.07\00:28:27.47
And by the way, we've
talked a lot about the book of
00:28:27.47\00:28:28.67
Revelation
connecting to the Old Testament.
00:28:28.67\00:28:30.14
>>TY: I hope you're going
back to verse 7, by the way.
00:28:30.14\00:28:32.34
>>JAMES: Verse 7
of Revelation 12?
00:28:32.34\00:28:35.44
>>TY: Yeah.
00:28:35.44\00:28:36.28
>>JAMES: Maybe.
00:28:36.28\00:28:37.51
John chapter 12, yeah, you do
it, and here, Jesus Christ is,
00:28:37.51\00:28:40.85
Jesus is getting ready to
go to the cross, he's getting
00:28:40.85\00:28:43.28
ready to go to Calvary and in
this context, he says, and I'm
00:28:43.28\00:28:47.42
just reading here in verse 31
of John chapter 12, now is the
00:28:47.42\00:28:51.63
judgment of this world.
00:28:51.63\00:28:53.73
Now shall the prince
of this world be cast out.
00:28:53.73\00:28:57.57
And then he says, if I be
lifted up from the earth, will
00:28:57.57\00:29:01.80
draw all unto me.
00:29:01.80\00:29:04.01
This he said signifying
what death he should die.
00:29:04.01\00:29:05.71
So, there's a direct
connection between Revelation
00:29:05.71\00:29:07.78
chapter 12 and verse 10
and the cross and Calvary.
00:29:07.78\00:29:12.28
What you were just talking
about in the relationship of
00:29:12.28\00:29:15.85
Christ and that no place and
his willingness to die for us,
00:29:15.85\00:29:18.32
that is really the
context of this verse.
00:29:18.32\00:29:21.26
What answers the question of
deception to the whole world,
00:29:21.26\00:29:24.59
what answers the issue of a
place for every human being is
00:29:24.59\00:29:27.83
the cross, it's Calvary.
00:29:27.83\00:29:29.16
>>TY: Yeah, yeah.
00:29:29.16\00:29:30.60
So, for clarification, for
my sake, is there, are there two
00:29:30.60\00:29:37.24
pivotal points at
which Satan is cast out?
00:29:37.24\00:29:42.18
>>JAMES: Yes.
00:29:42.18\00:29:42.98
>>DAVID: At least two.
00:29:42.98\00:29:44.21
>>TY: At least two, because
if you look, going back to verse
00:29:44.21\00:29:46.38
7, the reason I said verse
7 is because you had actually
00:29:46.38\00:29:50.55
said earlier, when we come
to verse 7, it's like John is
00:29:50.55\00:29:54.49
backing up and saying, let me
tell you where this all began.
00:29:54.49\00:29:56.62
Okay, well,
where did it all begin?
00:29:56.62\00:29:58.86
Verse 7, war broke out
in heaven, and that war that
00:29:58.86\00:30:01.53
broke out in heaven was
between Satan, his angels,
00:30:01.53\00:30:06.03
obviously, some of the angelic
community sided with Lucifer,
00:30:06.03\00:30:10.51
right?
00:30:10.51\00:30:11.67
So, he's got his angels,
they belong to him in a loyalty
00:30:11.67\00:30:14.48
sense, they've joined forces
with him, so, you've got Satan
00:30:14.48\00:30:17.78
and his angels and then you
have Michael and his angels,
00:30:17.78\00:30:22.58
that's the loyalty
contingency, those who are not
00:30:22.58\00:30:28.56
joining with Lucifer in
this heavenly rebellion and this
00:30:28.56\00:30:31.79
war that breaks out, it
says in verse 9, so the great
00:30:31.79\00:30:37.10
dragon was cast out, but
you pointed out later on in the
00:30:37.10\00:30:41.47
passage another casting out.
00:30:41.47\00:30:44.14
So, there's two points in
which he's being cast out.
00:30:44.14\00:30:46.37
Can I say it this way, see
if you guys agree with this or
00:30:46.37\00:30:48.91
can make this even more clear,
back at the initial rebellion,
00:30:48.91\00:30:54.35
Satan was cast out of heaven.
00:30:54.35\00:30:57.12
In heaven, he led out in a
rebellion against God and he
00:30:57.12\00:31:02.29
was cast out of
heaven and then according to,
00:31:02.29\00:31:06.36
was cast out of
heaven and then according to,
00:31:06.36\00:31:07.60
where does it say...
00:31:07.60\00:31:09.40
>>JAMES: That was
verse 8 and now we're...
00:31:09.40\00:31:11.23
>>TY: But, in verse 10,
it says he came to the earth,
00:31:11.23\00:31:12.80
right?
00:31:12.80\00:31:13.87
So, he's cast out of
heaven, he comes into the earth.
00:31:13.87\00:31:15.60
>>JAMES: Well, verse 9, it
says he's cast into the earth.
00:31:15.60\00:31:18.11
>>TY: Okay, so verse
9, he's come to the earth.
00:31:18.11\00:31:19.87
But then, he's on the earth,
he's doing his thing, he's
00:31:19.87\00:31:21.34
leading human beings into
sin and rebellion against God.
00:31:21.34\00:31:26.11
But then, you brought
us to Calvary, where Jesus
00:31:26.11\00:31:29.48
explicitly says, in chapter
12 that, whatever happened,
00:31:29.48\00:31:33.05
chapter 12 of John, whatever
happened at Calvary cast Satan
00:31:33.05\00:31:37.69
out again.
00:31:37.69\00:31:39.29
>>DAVID: Yes, that's right.
00:31:39.29\00:31:40.70
>>TY: On a deeper level?
00:31:40.70\00:31:41.83
In some sense, he's cast
out just like physically removed
00:31:41.83\00:31:46.47
from the heavenly realm to
the earthly realm in the initial
00:31:46.47\00:31:49.67
casting out, but then, at
Calvary, he's cast out of the
00:31:49.67\00:31:54.11
loyalties and the imagination
and the sympathies of
00:31:54.11\00:31:57.35
intelligent beings who look
at Calvary and they assess the
00:31:57.35\00:32:04.55
character of God revealed
in Jesus versus the claims that
00:32:04.55\00:32:07.99
Satan has made
against the character of God.
00:32:07.99\00:32:10.06
So, there's a
casting out at Calvary.
00:32:10.06\00:32:11.93
>>DAVID: The way that
I've often communicated this,
00:32:11.93\00:32:14.60
you'll remember your thought?
00:32:14.60\00:32:15.83
The way that I've communicated
this is, there's not that many
00:32:15.83\00:32:18.17
passages in the Old
Testament that deal with Satan.
00:32:18.17\00:32:20.40
There's just precious few.
00:32:20.40\00:32:23.04
Like, you could list them.
00:32:23.04\00:32:24.24
You've got, what, Ezekiel
28, Isaiah 14, Job 1, Genesis 3,
00:32:24.24\00:32:29.94
Zachariah 3.
00:32:29.94\00:32:31.85
>>TY: Yeah.
00:32:31.85\00:32:33.31
>>DAVID: There might be a
few others, but when you look at
00:32:33.31\00:32:35.45
what I call the Satanic
verses, right, like, those are
00:32:35.45\00:32:37.89
the verses that describe...
00:32:37.89\00:32:39.35
>>TY: In the Old Testament.
00:32:39.35\00:32:40.59
>>DAVID: In the Old Testament.
00:32:40.59\00:32:41.82
He's far more prominent in the
New Testament because Jesus is
00:32:41.82\00:32:43.56
coming regularly in
direct conflict with him.
00:32:43.56\00:32:46.06
Not to say that he's not
working in the Old Testament.
00:32:46.06\00:32:48.03
>>TY: Genesis 3.
00:32:48.03\00:32:49.03
>>DAVID: I said Genesis 3.
00:32:49.03\00:32:50.10
So, when you add those
passages up, what you see is
00:32:50.10\00:32:52.97
exactly what you're describing.
00:32:52.97\00:32:54.64
For example, in Job 2, he
has access, he's some heavenly
00:32:54.64\00:32:57.21
realm, you know, have you
considered my servant Job,
00:32:57.21\00:33:00.71
where do you come from?
00:33:00.71\00:33:01.58
I come from earth.
00:33:01.58\00:33:02.74
You have this whole, well,
clearly, this is not happening
00:33:02.74\00:33:04.51
on earth because otherwise, he
wouldn't say where do you come
00:33:04.51\00:33:06.82
from?
00:33:06.82\00:33:08.02
If they're, say, in Austin,
Texas, you say, where you come
00:33:08.02\00:33:10.25
from?
00:33:10.25\00:33:11.22
Well, I live here.
00:33:11.22\00:33:12.05
You see what I'm saying?
00:33:12.05\00:33:13.19
He's come from some other
place to this place and this
00:33:13.19\00:33:16.09
controversy, this conflict
about who Job really belongs
00:33:16.09\00:33:19.29
to breaks out.
00:33:19.29\00:33:20.36
Whatever this celestial,
you know, conclave is, this
00:33:20.36\00:33:23.40
meeting of these sons
of God, he has access.
00:33:23.40\00:33:28.90
There's a point of access there.
00:33:28.90\00:33:30.61
That's an Old Testament point
of access, but I think your
00:33:30.61\00:33:32.34
point, Ty, and it's a great
one, is post the cross, when
00:33:32.34\00:33:36.71
Satan was exposed as a
murderer, Jesus said, he's a
00:33:36.71\00:33:38.91
murderer, from the beginning,
but people couldn't see it.
00:33:38.91\00:33:41.48
You know, you are of your
father, the devil, you know,
00:33:41.48\00:33:42.92
he was a murderer
from the beginning.
00:33:42.92\00:33:44.35
But now, when Satan's MO, when
his mode of governance and the
00:33:44.35\00:33:50.06
outworking of his plan ends
up with the beloved of heaven,
00:33:50.06\00:33:54.36
Jesus, nailed to a
Roman instrument of torture, a
00:33:54.36\00:33:56.53
cross, it's like, the
angels are like, whoa, no, no.
00:33:56.53\00:34:02.37
We don't wanna have
anything to do with that.
00:34:02.37\00:34:03.74
So, the severing from
the sympathies, from the
00:34:03.74\00:34:05.81
loyalties, that's it.
00:34:05.81\00:34:08.74
Now, check this out, I love
this idea that he's then cast
00:34:08.74\00:34:10.55
to the earth.
00:34:10.55\00:34:11.68
I think that post cross,
Jesus, excuse me, Satan's
00:34:11.68\00:34:15.68
exclusive domain is the earth.
00:34:15.68\00:34:18.59
It's just here.
00:34:18.59\00:34:19.79
This is the only place left
that is as yet undecided about
00:34:19.79\00:34:22.66
the throne of God
being set in heaven.
00:34:22.66\00:34:25.89
>>JAMES: That's
confirmed in verse 12.
00:34:25.89\00:34:27.23
>>DAVID: Have
you ever seen this?
00:34:27.23\00:34:28.43
What do you think of verse 13?
00:34:28.43\00:34:29.66
I know we're jumping a little
bit ahead, but, of chapter 12.
00:34:29.66\00:34:31.70
I love this.
00:34:31.70\00:34:32.90
You get almost the sense of
like, awareness, apprehension,
00:34:32.90\00:34:36.71
and surprise.
00:34:36.71\00:34:38.17
When the dragon saw that he
was, it's like, I don't know
00:34:38.17\00:34:42.31
if he tries to like, I
don't know how he moves, say he
00:34:42.31\00:34:46.08
tries to beam, you
know, to go, and he's...
00:34:46.08\00:34:49.22
tries to beam, you
know, to go, and he's...
00:34:49.22\00:34:51.09
And he can't leave.
00:34:51.52\00:34:52.62
When he saw that he
was cast to the earth.
00:34:52.62\00:34:55.96
>>JAMES: There was no
more sympathy with any of the
00:34:55.96\00:34:57.46
unfolding...
00:34:57.46\00:34:58.63
>>JEFFREY: He diverts his
attention to the next target.
00:34:58.63\00:34:59.83
>>DAVID: Everything
goes to a rage against...
00:34:59.83\00:35:04.30
>>TY: It's fully vindictive.
00:35:04.30\00:35:06.00
>>JAMES: Have you ever called
someone and they don't answer?
00:35:06.00\00:35:07.44
You call someone and they
don't answer, you text them
00:35:07.44\00:35:09.07
and they don't answer,
you text them and they don't
00:35:09.07\00:35:10.67
See, this is the picture.
00:35:10.67\00:35:11.74
Satan is, he's sending
these texts and calls out and
00:35:11.74\00:35:14.18
there's a response.
00:35:14.18\00:35:15.41
Well, have you
considered my servant Job?
00:35:15.41\00:35:16.78
But now there's no answer.
00:35:16.78\00:35:18.88
There's no answer.
00:35:18.88\00:35:20.05
>>DAVID: The only answering
chord takes place on earth.
00:35:20.05\00:35:21.12
>>JAMES: Yes.
00:35:21.12\00:35:22.08
There's no
answering chord, good.
00:35:22.08\00:35:23.02
>>DAVID: I totally see that.
00:35:23.02\00:35:25.65
>>TY: Let me add a scripture
to this idea that the cross
00:35:25.65\00:35:29.56
constituted the casting out
of Satan in some significant
00:35:29.56\00:35:32.99
sense.
00:35:32.99\00:35:34.03
>>DAVID: Colossians 2:15.
00:35:34.03\00:35:35.16
>>TY: Did you see it?
00:35:35.16\00:35:36.36
>>DAVID: No, I just love it,
one of my all-time favorites.
00:35:36.36\00:35:38.87
If you are a lover of
the gospel and of scripture,
00:35:38.87\00:35:41.84
Colossians 2:15 has to be
one of your very favorites.
00:35:41.84\00:35:45.91
>>TY: So, it says that,
it's talking about Jesus at the
00:35:45.91\00:35:48.58
cross and it says,
having disarmed, that's an
00:35:48.58\00:35:51.28
interesting word, having
disarmed principalities and
00:35:51.28\00:35:54.58
powers, obviously bad ones,
having disarmed principalities
00:35:54.58\00:35:58.02
and powers, he, Jesus,
made a public spectacle of them,
00:35:58.02\00:36:01.72
triumphing over them
in it, that is, the cross.
00:36:01.72\00:36:05.16
>>DAVID: In the cross.
00:36:05.16\00:36:06.16
>>TY: So, the cross
constituted the triumph of
00:36:06.16\00:36:09.23
Christ over the devil and
did two things, it disarmed him
00:36:09.23\00:36:14.97
and it made a
public spectacle of him.
00:36:14.97\00:36:18.67
So, this was open to
assessment, open to view for
00:36:18.67\00:36:22.11
observers to see what happened
at the cross, but the reason I
00:36:22.11\00:36:27.55
wanted to look at that
scripture and compare it with
00:36:27.55\00:36:29.45
Revelation 12 is because
it says he disarmed them.
00:36:29.45\00:36:33.39
What does it mean?
00:36:33.39\00:36:34.56
Do we see Jesus at the cross
like, wrestling Satan to the
00:36:34.56\00:36:37.99
ground and taking a
pistol out of his hand?
00:36:37.99\00:36:40.13
Wrestling him to the ground
and taking a knife out of his
00:36:40.13\00:36:42.40
hand?
00:36:42.40\00:36:44.37
Is he dismantling a bomb?
00:36:44.37\00:36:48.84
No.
00:36:48.84\00:36:50.07
When it says he disarmed him,
this connects with chapter 12
00:36:50.07\00:36:52.74
verse 7, where it says,
war broke out in heaven.
00:36:52.74\00:36:55.61
Interestingly, the word
war there is the Greek word
00:36:55.61\00:37:01.05
palemos and it's not referring
to angels, like, in midair
00:37:01.05\00:37:06.55
with like Star Wars,
which trivializes it.
00:37:06.55\00:37:11.26
They're not casting laser
beams out of their fingertips
00:37:11.26\00:37:13.43
at one another, it's a
conversation that's occurring.
00:37:13.43\00:37:18.73
An argument, polemic.
00:37:18.73\00:37:21.24
So, palemos is polemic,
we're entering a presidential
00:37:21.24\00:37:24.97
election season.
00:37:24.97\00:37:27.54
>>DAVID: That is
filled with polemic.
00:37:27.54\00:37:28.81
>>TY: It's a
palemos, it's a war.
00:37:28.81\00:37:32.45
>>JEFFREY: There's
claims, counterclaims, smear
00:37:32.45\00:37:34.18
campaigns.
00:37:34.18\00:37:35.25
>>TY: So, Hillary is not
challenging Trump to a duel.
00:37:35.25\00:37:40.09
She's standing at a
podium shooting words.
00:37:40.09\00:37:43.26
He's standing at a podium,
shooting words, and they're
00:37:43.26\00:37:45.66
shooting words back and forth
at and about one another in
00:37:45.66\00:37:49.86
order to smear one
another's characters.
00:37:49.86\00:37:53.37
>>DAVID: And to win loyalty.
00:37:53.37\00:37:54.60
>>TY: And to win loyalty from
others and that's the kind of
00:37:54.60\00:37:57.14
war...
00:37:57.14\00:37:58.24
>>JEFFREY: To arouse
suspicion about each other, too.
00:37:58.24\00:37:59.67
>>TY: Yeah, that's the
war we're dealing with in
00:37:59.67\00:38:01.51
Revelation.
00:38:01.51\00:38:02.71
The devil is deceiving, he's
making claims about or against
00:38:02.71\00:38:06.58
God.
00:38:06.58\00:38:07.72
>>DAVID: With, obviously,
we have to say this, with the
00:38:07.72\00:38:11.02
major exception being
that there is no mutuality.
00:38:11.02\00:38:14.46
In other words, we need, Trump
and Clinton doing their, it's
00:38:14.46\00:38:17.56
mutual, and it's
ugly on both sides.
00:38:17.56\00:38:20.63
In heaven, it's not
bilateral, it's unilateral.
00:38:20.63\00:38:24.93
Satan is like, yeah, but
you, yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah,
00:38:24.93\00:38:26.20
but you.
00:38:26.20\00:38:26.67
And God's like...
00:38:26.67\00:38:27.90
>>JAMES: It's kinda like that
candidate that refused to say
00:38:27.90\00:38:29.50
anything negative.
00:38:29.50\00:38:30.74
Remember him?
00:38:30.74\00:38:31.71
>>DAVID: I do remember him.
00:38:31.71\00:38:32.47
>>JAMES: He didn't get anywhere.
00:38:32.47\00:38:35.54
>>DAVID: He didn't get very far.
00:38:35.54\00:38:36.44
>>JAMES: Kind of.
00:38:36.44\00:38:37.11
>>DAVID: Kind of.
00:38:37.11\00:38:38.18
>>JEFFREY: There's a
progression, I just wanna read
00:38:38.18\00:38:38.85
one thing out real quick here.
00:38:38.85\00:38:40.05
There's a progression between
the crushing or the casting
00:38:40.05\00:38:42.45
out of Satan, right?
00:38:42.45\00:38:43.65
You said it happened initially
in heaven, he gets cast down
00:38:43.65\00:38:47.02
on earth, and it's not until
Calvary where Christ deals the
00:38:47.02\00:38:50.39
next blow and that next
blow, that casting out, other
00:38:50.39\00:38:54.56
language used, Genesis 3:15,
the promise of the crushing,
00:38:54.56\00:38:59.10
the crushing of the serpent.
00:38:59.10\00:39:01.67
So, that happens at Calvary.
00:39:01.67\00:39:04.94
Satan is cast out and crushed,
but he's still around, he's
00:39:04.94\00:39:07.48
still active.
00:39:07.48\00:39:08.71
Right, and I think the hint in
chapter 12 is that through the
00:39:08.71\00:39:12.88
church, the final blow
will be dealt in a sense.
00:39:12.88\00:39:17.12
You gotta come to chapter 16
and verse 20, it says, the God
00:39:17.12\00:39:21.82
of peace will crush
Satan under your feet shortly.
00:39:21.82\00:39:25.63
>>TY: That's the church
that's being addressed there.
00:39:25.63\00:39:27.56
>>JEFFREY: Yeah.
00:39:27.56\00:39:28.73
So, Christ will crush Satan
under the church's feet, under
00:39:28.73\00:39:32.10
the woman's feet.
00:39:32.10\00:39:33.54
>>TY: That's a direct
quote from Genesis 3:15.
00:39:33.54\00:39:35.10
>>JEFFREY: And he's talking
to the church, but this is
00:39:35.10\00:39:36.57
post-Calvary obviously, so
here we have casting out in
00:39:36.57\00:39:39.74
heaven, casting out on earth
because of Calvary, but his
00:39:39.74\00:39:44.45
activities are still allowed
to develop and to show, and to
00:39:44.45\00:39:48.08
expose himself
and eventually, sorry?
00:39:48.08\00:39:51.39
>>JAMES: The
church has to disarm him.
00:39:51.39\00:39:52.62
>>DAVID: Well, he is disarmed,
the church has to ride in the
00:39:52.62\00:39:54.56
wake of the victory.
00:39:54.56\00:39:55.76
>>JEFFREY: And represent and
publish and proclaim what has
00:39:55.76\00:39:58.76
already taken place so that,
eventually, Satan is crushed
00:39:58.76\00:40:02.56
under the very people's...
00:40:02.56\00:40:03.80
>>TY: And all this language
of disarmed and crushed and war,
00:40:03.80\00:40:06.94
the point we're making, it
has nothing to do with physical
00:40:06.94\00:40:09.57
war.
00:40:09.57\00:40:10.71
It has to do with disarming
his arguments with truth.
00:40:10.71\00:40:13.68
>>DAVID: So, and it's in
the actual text that you read,
00:40:13.68\00:40:16.38
Romans 16:20,
what God does this?
00:40:16.38\00:40:21.32
>>JEFFREY: The God of peace.
00:40:21.32\00:40:22.62
>>DAVID: The God of peace.
00:40:22.62\00:40:23.95
>>TY: The God of shalom.
00:40:23.95\00:40:24.89
>>DAVID: The God of shalom.
00:40:24.89\00:40:25.62
He's not a God of war.
00:40:25.62\00:40:26.96
War was brought to him.
00:40:26.96\00:40:28.26
That's my point about the
bilateral versus unilateral.
00:40:28.26\00:40:30.49
The war was brought to him.
00:40:30.49\00:40:31.73
>>TY: But it's not
intrinsic to his nature.
00:40:31.73\00:40:34.30
>>DAVID: No.
00:40:34.30\00:40:35.16
>>JEFFREY: It
backfires on the initiator.
00:40:35.16\00:40:38.77
Satan's raising his
accusations and those things
00:40:38.77\00:40:41.10
just bounce back at him
and reveal that all Satan was
00:40:41.10\00:40:44.14
doing was projecting to
God, his own psyche, his own
00:40:44.14\00:40:47.64
character.
00:40:47.64\00:40:48.81
>>DAVID: And you know, just,
I'll throw this last little
00:40:48.81\00:40:50.15
bit in and I think
we have to take a break.
00:40:50.15\00:40:51.38
We actually see, I preached
a sermon on this recently where
00:40:51.38\00:40:54.05
we see that, like, for
example, in the book of
00:40:54.05\00:40:56.15
Daniel, they're like, oh,
we're gonna throw that guy
00:40:56.15\00:40:58.12
into the lion's den.
00:40:58.12\00:40:59.85
Well, they end up
in the lion's den.
00:40:59.85\00:41:00.96
Oh, we're gonna throw
these guys into the fire.
00:41:00.96\00:41:03.43
They're fine in the fire, but
the people that tried to throw
00:41:03.43\00:41:05.13
them in the fire, this
happens again and again.
00:41:05.13\00:41:07.03
Satan makes a trap, he creates
a war situation and then, he
00:41:07.03\00:41:11.40
ends up being, as it
were, falling on his own sword.
00:41:11.40\00:41:14.34
>>JAMES: He that kills with
the sword will be killed with
00:41:14.34\00:41:16.30
the sword.
00:41:16.30\00:41:17.37
>>TY: There is an Old
Testament scripture, I don't
00:41:17.37\00:41:18.57
know where it is, I
hope it's in the bible.
00:41:18.57\00:41:20.74
There's a scripture somewhere
in the Old Testament that
00:41:20.74\00:41:23.65
says, it says, the wicked
dig a pit and fall into it.
00:41:23.65\00:41:27.28
>>DAVID: We'll
find it on the break.
00:41:27.28\00:41:28.65
>>JAMES: One more point.
00:41:28.65\00:41:30.65
Armageddon, the three unclean
spirits come out of the mouth
00:41:30.65\00:41:35.52
of the dragon, the
false prophet, and the beast.
00:41:35.52\00:41:37.79
In other words, a
war of words, the mouth.
00:41:37.79\00:41:40.40
>>TY: This is deception.
00:41:40.40\00:41:41.56
>>JAMES: Yes, their
main motive argument.
00:41:41.56\00:41:43.43
>>TY: Now can we take a break?
00:41:43.43\00:41:44.60
>>JEFFREY: Wait, one more.
00:41:44.60\00:41:46.10
[Laughter]
00:41:46.10\00:41:47.17
>>TY: We gotta take a
break, we'll come right back.
00:41:47.17\00:41:50.37
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00:42:45.13\00:42:46.03
[Music]
00:42:46.03\00:42:52.17
>>TY: So, in this final
segment, we're going to move
00:42:52.17\00:42:54.07
through the remaining verses
in Revelation chapter 12, but
00:42:54.07\00:42:59.87
the thing is that there are
elements that we really wanna
00:42:59.87\00:43:04.15
save for chapter 13, why don't
you explain that, David, what
00:43:04.15\00:43:06.95
are we, where are we going now
in chapter 12 and what are we
00:43:06.95\00:43:10.25
gonna save for chapter 13?
00:43:10.25\00:43:11.89
>>JEFFREY: Can I
confuse you real quick.
00:43:11.89\00:43:12.95
I'm fully doing this right now.
00:43:12.95\00:43:14.46
>>TY: What are you doing?
00:43:14.46\00:43:15.96
>>JEFFREY: Just 'cause
you made the statement last
00:43:15.96\00:43:18.33
session, that text about
digging a pit and falling into
00:43:18.33\00:43:21.60
it, we're talking about
backfiring the devil, it's
00:43:21.60\00:43:23.73
actually in the bible.
00:43:23.73\00:43:24.87
I'm surprised, Ty,
you normally surprise me.
00:43:24.87\00:43:29.10
But, in Ecclesiastes 10, it
says, he who digs a pit will
00:43:29.10\00:43:31.61
fall into it, which is what
you were saying, and whoever
00:43:31.61\00:43:34.04
breaks through a wall
will be bitten by a serpent.
00:43:34.04\00:43:39.11
I just love the fact that
the word serpent was in there.
00:43:39.11\00:43:41.38
That's Revelation 12.
00:43:41.38\00:43:43.69
>>DAVID: I love it.
00:43:43.69\00:43:44.89
>>JEFFREY: No, it's not, but
I thought it was pretty cool.
00:43:44.89\00:43:47.39
>>TY: But, in principle,
it does, because what that's
00:43:47.39\00:43:49.69
describing is that reality
is rigged or created in such a
00:43:49.69\00:43:55.66
way that a person who uses
force and violence breaking
00:43:55.66\00:44:00.30
through a wall experiences the
ramifications of that violence
00:44:00.30\00:44:04.31
coming back on their head.
00:44:04.31\00:44:06.11
>>DAVID: He that lives by
the sword dies by the sword.
00:44:06.11\00:44:07.88
>>TY: Yeah, it's the
cycle that shows up in all story
00:44:07.88\00:44:12.25
lines that the way you solve
problems is to hit back and
00:44:12.25\00:44:17.25
Jesus comes along and he says,
I'm gonna respond to evil with
00:44:17.25\00:44:22.06
good.
00:44:22.06\00:44:23.29
I'm not gonna hit back, and in
not hitting back, I'm going to
00:44:23.29\00:44:25.56
disarm your hate.
00:44:25.56\00:44:27.20
I'm going to take away from
you, I'm gonna take away from
00:44:27.20\00:44:30.30
you the very thing that
you think is the answer to the
00:44:30.30\00:44:35.04
world's problems and I'm
gonna give you an answer on a
00:44:35.04\00:44:37.17
different level.
00:44:37.17\00:44:38.11
>>JEFFREY: But it says serpent.
00:44:38.11\00:44:39.84
>>DAVID: No, I
like that, I like that.
00:44:39.84\00:44:41.18
Here's the illustration that
I've used in the past, tell me
00:44:41.18\00:44:42.61
if you like that, and then,
I'll come back to where we're
00:44:42.61\00:44:44.55
going.
00:44:44.55\00:44:45.58
I say that Satan has
three arrows in his quiver.
00:44:45.58\00:44:48.08
So, he's got his quiver and
he shoots with three arrows, he
00:44:48.08\00:44:50.09
shoots with deception, he
shoots with sin, and he shoots
00:44:50.09\00:44:53.36
with death.
00:44:53.36\00:44:54.36
That's what he has to work with.
00:44:54.36\00:44:56.39
So, Jesus shows up, the
deception arrow, he tells the
00:44:56.39\00:44:58.96
truth.
00:44:58.96\00:44:59.89
This is what God
looks like, okay?
00:44:59.89\00:45:01.96
He takes the sin arrow and
Jesus lives a life of perfect
00:45:01.96\00:45:06.70
relational integrity
with God and with man.
00:45:06.70\00:45:09.57
Okay, so that's
disarmed, break that arrow.
00:45:09.57\00:45:11.57
And then, death, because
the wages of sin is death, death
00:45:11.57\00:45:14.34
had no legitimate hold on
Christ, and so he raises from
00:45:14.34\00:45:18.28
the dead.
00:45:18.28\00:45:19.41
So, Jesus walks up, as it
were, and effectively snaps
00:45:19.41\00:45:22.25
each of those arrows.
00:45:22.25\00:45:23.35
Not by stabbing Satan,
but by doing a different way.
00:45:23.35\00:45:26.69
>>JEFFREY: By being
immune to the venom.
00:45:26.69\00:45:28.69
>>DAVID: Yeah, by being
immune, by introducing a new
00:45:28.69\00:45:31.86
way of conflict.
00:45:31.86\00:45:33.36
>>TY: He doesn't fight
with the same weapons that the
00:45:33.36\00:45:37.13
devil employs or, as we
said yesterday, he doesn't out
00:45:37.13\00:45:41.60
monster the monster.
00:45:41.60\00:45:43.57
He doesn't out Satan Satan,
he doesn't use the same tactics
00:45:43.57\00:45:48.54
or the same methods.
00:45:48.54\00:45:49.74
>>DAVID: But you have talked
to me, Ty, in the past, about
00:45:49.74\00:45:51.65
the myth of redemptive violence.
00:45:51.65\00:45:52.95
That's a phrase
that sometimes you used.
00:45:52.95\00:45:54.25
And if you look at television
today, whether it's the Iron
00:45:54.25\00:45:57.55
Man, Spider-Man, Superman,
or any of the James Bond movies,
00:45:57.55\00:46:01.49
all of that, at the end of
the day, is like, hey those guys
00:46:01.49\00:46:03.36
are clever and have weapons,
but we'll be more clever and
00:46:03.36\00:46:07.20
have bigger
weapons and the hero.
00:46:07.20\00:46:09.60
So, Jesus shows up
and he's the anti-hero.
00:46:09.60\00:46:13.27
It's like, he doesn't have any
guns, he doesn't, how does he
00:46:13.27\00:46:17.61
win this war?
00:46:17.61\00:46:18.71
>>TY: My kingdom is not
of this world, therefore, my
00:46:18.71\00:46:19.71
servants don't fight.
00:46:19.71\00:46:21.11
>>DAVID: That's
right, or they would fight.
00:46:21.11\00:46:22.28
>>JAMES: Before you go
into that, I just wanna show how
00:46:22.28\00:46:24.35
this connects into Revelation
chapter 12 in a very powerful
00:46:24.35\00:46:27.62
way.
00:46:27.62\00:46:28.82
There's a phrase in here
that is used five times and it's
00:46:28.82\00:46:31.35
the phrase that describes
what happens in relation to the
00:46:31.35\00:46:37.13
woman, the church, and Christ.
00:46:37.13\00:46:38.26
In Revelation chapter 12
and verse 4, it says, and his
00:46:38.26\00:46:42.10
tail, the dragon's tail, drew
a third part of the stars in
00:46:42.10\00:46:44.33
heaven, cast them to the
earth, and the dragon stood
00:46:44.33\00:46:46.33
before the woman who
was ready to be delivered.
00:46:46.33\00:46:48.84
You see that word delivered?
00:46:48.84\00:46:50.91
For to devour her child as
soon as it was born and she,
00:46:50.91\00:46:54.58
verse 5, brought forth a
man child and then, in verse 13,
00:46:54.58\00:46:58.81
and when the dragon saw he
was cast out of the earth, he
00:46:58.81\00:47:01.12
persecuted the woman, which
brought forth the man child.
00:47:01.12\00:47:05.19
Now, that word brought forth,
brought forth, born, that word
00:47:05.19\00:47:08.19
in the original Greek is
the same word that is used back
00:47:08.19\00:47:11.63
here in Revelation chapter
6 and verse 1, and I wanna
00:47:11.63\00:47:15.80
remind us that Revelation
6, verse 1, is apostolic age
00:47:15.80\00:47:18.90
again, it's talking about
the white horse, but the white
00:47:18.90\00:47:21.14
horse is describing, in
symbolic terms, the apostolic
00:47:21.14\00:47:24.81
era.
00:47:24.81\00:47:26.14
This white horse has a rider,
and we believe the rider is
00:47:26.14\00:47:28.98
Jesus, we believe the
horse represents God's church,
00:47:28.98\00:47:31.85
Zachariah 10:3 says, God
has made his people like goodly
00:47:31.85\00:47:34.78
horse in the day of battle.
00:47:34.78\00:47:36.42
But notice this.
00:47:36.42\00:47:38.12
I saw and behold the white
horse and he that besat him
00:47:38.12\00:47:40.12
had a bow.
00:47:40.12\00:47:41.12
What does a bow do?
00:47:41.12\00:47:42.46
You just described it.
00:47:42.46\00:47:43.59
A bow brings forth weapons.
00:47:43.59\00:47:45.39
Well, the word bow is the
root word for bring forth, bring
00:47:45.39\00:47:50.43
forth, bring forth, that
is used in Revelation 12.
00:47:50.43\00:47:52.77
In other words, that word, in
Revelation 12 is used 5 times,
00:47:52.77\00:47:55.64
born, delivered, brought
forth, brought forth, is the
00:47:55.64\00:47:58.54
same Greek word
for bow right here.
00:47:58.54\00:48:01.58
The apostolic church had a
weapon and their weapon was
00:48:01.58\00:48:04.95
the weapon that disarmed
Satan, it was the weapon of
00:48:04.95\00:48:06.95
Christ being brought forth.
00:48:06.95\00:48:08.05
It was the weapon of his
incarnation, of his life, and
00:48:08.05\00:48:10.12
his death, it was
the weapon of the gospel.
00:48:10.12\00:48:12.12
And that is the
thing that Satan...
00:48:12.12\00:48:14.12
>>JEFFREY: So, the church took
Jesus and did that on Satan.
00:48:14.12\00:48:16.96
>>JAMES: And the arrows of
conviction or the arrows of
00:48:16.96\00:48:19.26
love, this is the weapon.
00:48:19.26\00:48:20.70
>>TY: The weapon is the gospel.
00:48:20.70\00:48:22.26
>>JAMES: And it's all
through Revelation 12.
00:48:22.26\00:48:24.73
The woman brought forth,
brought forth, brought, what
00:48:24.73\00:48:25.50
did she bring forth?
00:48:25.50\00:48:26.20
The man child.
00:48:26.20\00:48:27.14
What is the man child?
00:48:27.14\00:48:27.77
He's the weapon.
00:48:27.77\00:48:28.80
What is the man child?
00:48:28.80\00:48:29.87
He's the thing that the
church is bringing forth in
00:48:29.87\00:48:31.21
Revelation chapter 6,
when that church goes forth
00:48:31.21\00:48:32.81
conquering and to conquer.
00:48:32.81\00:48:34.61
>>DAVID: Reminds me of the
text of Paul where he says the
00:48:34.61\00:48:35.68
weapons of our
warfare are not carnal.
00:48:35.68\00:48:37.88
>>JAMES: And look
at this, look at this.
00:48:37.88\00:48:39.01
>>TY: Mighty through God,
through the pulling down of
00:48:39.01\00:48:40.88
strongholds,
casting down arguments.
00:48:40.88\00:48:44.32
>>DAVID: And every high thing
that exalts itself against the
00:48:44.32\00:48:46.99
knowledge of God.
00:48:46.99\00:48:48.32
>>TY: And bringing into
captivity every thought.
00:48:48.32\00:48:50.79
Isn't that interesting?
00:48:50.79\00:48:51.69
All the language is
knowledge, thought...
00:48:51.69\00:48:54.83
>>JAMES: And here's the
final language, and this is
00:48:54.83\00:48:56.80
Revelation 6 again, verse 2,
and he that sat in heaven had
00:48:56.80\00:49:00.94
a bow and a crown was
given unto him and he went forth
00:49:00.94\00:49:03.37
conquering and to conquer.
00:49:03.37\00:49:06.14
There's this
warfare that's taking place.
00:49:06.14\00:49:08.21
This church is going
forth conquering and to conquer.
00:49:08.21\00:49:11.35
So, the warfare language
is there, but the war is
00:49:11.35\00:49:14.55
completely different than
what we understand it to be.
00:49:14.55\00:49:16.55
>>TY: It's interesting
because the medieval church, the
00:49:16.55\00:49:19.22
church that remained
above ground that was, yeah, the
00:49:19.22\00:49:22.42
visible church, that was the
thing that actually wasn't the
00:49:22.42\00:49:24.46
thing, that wasn't the real
church, took scripture and its
00:49:24.46\00:49:28.93
warfare language and actually
engaged in using weapons, the
00:49:28.93\00:49:39.14
weapons of civil power and
military power, the weapons of
00:49:39.14\00:49:42.88
swords.
00:49:42.88\00:49:44.28
>>DAVID: Can you imagine?
00:49:44.28\00:49:45.45
I stab you in the name of
Jesus, I burn you in the name
00:49:45.45\00:49:46.11
of Jesus and Jesus is like...
00:49:46.11\00:49:47.75
>>JAMES: I behead
you in the name of God.
00:49:47.75\00:49:49.62
>>DAVID: No, you
don't, no, you don't.
00:49:49.62\00:49:53.72
>>JAMES: It's happening today.
00:49:53.72\00:49:54.92
>>DAVID: You can say that
all you want, but no, you don't.
00:49:54.92\00:49:56.76
>>TY: A crucifix in one
hand, a sword in the other hand,
00:49:56.76\00:49:58.73
convert or die.
00:49:58.73\00:50:00.03
So, people...
00:50:00.03\00:50:01.06
>>JEFFREY: Or even more
modern, yeah, the gospel and
00:50:01.06\00:50:02.80
machine guns or grenades.
00:50:02.80\00:50:05.57
>>TY: When I was down in
Peru a few years ago, the local
00:50:05.57\00:50:08.60
people told me the story
of the Catholic conquistadors
00:50:08.60\00:50:13.11
that landed on their shores
and on large stallions with
00:50:13.11\00:50:17.41
the crucifix in one hand,
the sword in the other hand, and
00:50:17.41\00:50:20.08
they told the Inca chief,
we're gonna build a room, you
00:50:20.08\00:50:25.65
fill it with gold by
this time, or you die.
00:50:25.65\00:50:29.49
He filled it with gold,
fulfilled their demands, and
00:50:29.49\00:50:34.03
they still executed him, in
the name of Jesus, and then,
00:50:34.03\00:50:37.20
after executing the chief,
proceeded to force the Inca
00:50:37.20\00:50:42.40
people to convert to
Christianity on pain of death.
00:50:42.40\00:50:45.67
So, it's not surprising
that much of South and Central
00:50:45.67\00:50:49.08
America is quote unquote
Christian, but it's Christian
00:50:49.08\00:50:53.45
on a premise that is contrary
to the character of God.
00:50:53.45\00:50:57.15
>>DAVID: So, in Revelation
12, because we've got just a few
00:50:57.15\00:51:01.59
minutes left in this final
session, do you guys feel like
00:51:01.59\00:51:05.33
you've covered 7-12, I
mean, we've certainly not.
00:51:05.33\00:51:08.86
>>TY: But we've gotta move on,
though, 'cause we have to look
00:51:08.86\00:51:11.13
at verses 13 and
onward, don't we?
00:51:11.13\00:51:13.27
>>DAVID: So, at the cross,
verse 10, yes, we do, at the
00:51:13.27\00:51:15.70
cross, verse 10, at the cross,
the kingdom of our God, the
00:51:15.70\00:51:19.04
power of his Christ and all
that is come, verse 11, they,
00:51:19.04\00:51:21.34
that is to say, the church
of God, the followers of Jesus,
00:51:21.34\00:51:23.61
overcame by the blood of
the Lamb, that's the weapons of
00:51:23.61\00:51:25.78
their warfare, which are not
carnal, it's the gospel, they
00:51:25.78\00:51:29.38
did not, and by the word
of their testimony, their own
00:51:29.38\00:51:31.39
personal experience with
Christ, his goodness, by the
00:51:31.39\00:51:34.46
Spirit, they did not
love their lives to the death,
00:51:34.46\00:51:36.56
there's no need to if Jesus
conquered death, you're gonna
00:51:36.56\00:51:40.26
get raised form the dead anyway.
00:51:40.26\00:51:41.40
>>JAMES: That's beautiful
right there because that's the
00:51:41.40\00:51:42.63
disarming, that's the weapon.
00:51:42.63\00:51:43.83
>>DAVID: Yeah, that's right,
one of those weapons is death.
00:51:43.83\00:51:45.77
Verse 12, therefore, on
the basis of this casting down,
00:51:45.77\00:51:49.54
this sequential casting down,
rejoice, oh, heavens, Satan
00:51:49.54\00:51:53.64
doesn't have access there
anymore, and you who dwell on
00:51:53.64\00:51:55.48
them, but woe to the
inhabitants of the earth and
00:51:55.48\00:51:58.01
in the sea, for the devil has
come down to you, having great
00:51:58.01\00:51:59.91
wrath.
00:51:59.91\00:52:00.85
Why?
00:52:00.85\00:52:01.62
Why is he so fired up?
00:52:01.62\00:52:02.58
Well, because he
knows he has a short time.
00:52:02.58\00:52:03.59
His weapons are, you
know, being sequentially,
00:52:03.59\00:52:06.42
systematically broken, the
last little place that he has,
00:52:06.42\00:52:09.92
the little toehold that he
has in the universe is earth.
00:52:09.92\00:52:11.93
>>JAMES: Let's stop right
there for a second, because I
00:52:11.93\00:52:15.83
think, we don't wanna go to
these verses, we don't need to
00:52:15.83\00:52:18.63
go to these verses,
but I think what Ty said is
00:52:18.63\00:52:20.40
important, and that is,
have we covered 7 and onward
00:52:20.40\00:52:24.97
sufficiently, and I got the
indication from Ty that, no we
00:52:24.97\00:52:27.51
haven't, and so, this would
be a really good place to double
00:52:27.51\00:52:30.18
back and hit it hard, and that
is verse 12, because it says
00:52:30.18\00:52:32.81
here, therefore, rejoice ye
heavens and ye that dwell in
00:52:32.81\00:52:36.69
them, but woe to the
inhabitants of the earth and
00:52:36.69\00:52:38.45
of the sea.
00:52:38.45\00:52:39.39
What's happening right there?
00:52:39.39\00:52:40.52
In the whole context of
what we've looked at here, this
00:52:40.52\00:52:43.19
kind of this interlude, if
you will, verses 7 and onward,
00:52:43.19\00:52:46.66
Paul was, I mean, excuse
me, John was just writing the
00:52:46.66\00:52:49.36
church, and then, he
starts talking about heaven.
00:52:49.36\00:52:52.00
Well, what happened in verse 12?
00:52:52.00\00:52:54.07
What is the whole point here?
00:52:54.07\00:52:55.60
The whole point here is what
we've been talking about, that
00:52:55.60\00:52:58.17
the heavens are
rejoicing because Satan has been
00:52:58.17\00:53:01.88
unmasked.
00:53:01.88\00:53:03.14
He's been seen.
00:53:03.14\00:53:04.25
He deceived a third of
the angels and the angels that
00:53:04.25\00:53:05.88
didn't fall with him still had
a question in their mind, you
00:53:05.88\00:53:08.25
know, these accusations,
is there any truth to them?
00:53:08.25\00:53:11.89
And it wasn't until the
cross that that was completely
00:53:11.89\00:53:14.46
unmasked.
00:53:14.46\00:53:15.49
>>JEFFREY: It's settled
in heaven but not on earth.
00:53:15.49\00:53:16.86
>>JAMES: And that's
what verse 12 is saying.
00:53:16.86\00:53:19.36
>>JEFFREY: Business is still,
you know, the mission still
00:53:19.36\00:53:25.23
needs to be completed on earth.
00:53:25.23\00:53:26.63
>>DAVID: On that note,
I find it so interesting.
00:53:26.63\00:53:29.87
In one of the gospels, Jesus
shows up, gospel of Luke, the
00:53:29.87\00:53:34.01
two demoniacs, Jesus gets
off the shore, walks on, one of
00:53:34.01\00:53:37.21
the demoniacs runs down
and says, we know who you are,
00:53:37.21\00:53:39.08
you're Jesus, the Son of
God, you've come to torment us
00:53:39.08\00:53:42.25
before the time.
00:53:42.25\00:53:43.95
Okay, I love to ask people
this question, what do these
00:53:43.95\00:53:45.59
demons, fallen angels, believe
about God and his character?
00:53:45.59\00:53:49.22
You went out of your way just
to come here to this little,
00:53:49.22\00:53:51.53
you know, out of the
way shore to torture us.
00:53:51.53\00:53:54.73
They have bought the lie.
00:53:54.73\00:53:56.73
>>JEFFREY: They
still believe it.
00:53:56.73\00:53:57.93
>>DAVID: They
have bought the lie.
00:53:57.93\00:53:59.40
And Jesus doesn't come to, I'd
like to say this, Jesus didn't
00:53:59.40\00:54:02.64
come to the earth to
torture, he came willing to be
00:54:02.64\00:54:09.04
tortured.
00:54:09.04\00:54:10.15
>>JAMES: Yes, praise God,
and you know what's really
00:54:10.15\00:54:12.85
interesting about that whole
story is, they say, don't do
00:54:12.85\00:54:15.92
this to us, and Jesus says,
okay, what do you want me to
00:54:15.92\00:54:17.32
do?
00:54:17.32\00:54:17.99
It's up to...
00:54:17.99\00:54:19.05
>>DAVID: We wanna go over there.
00:54:19.05\00:54:19.79
He's like, okay.
00:54:19.79\00:54:20.72
>>JAMES: But get
this, it's up to you.
00:54:20.72\00:54:22.66
Your destiny is up to you.
00:54:22.66\00:54:24.26
I'm not gonna determine
it, you're gonna determine your
00:54:24.26\00:54:27.00
destiny.
00:54:27.00\00:54:28.23
You're gonna determine it.
00:54:28.23\00:54:29.13
>>JEFFREY: You
gotta land the plane, Ty.
00:54:29.13\00:54:30.43
>>TY: What are you gonna
do with verses 13-17 in the
00:54:30.43\00:54:32.90
minute and 30
seconds you have left, David?
00:54:32.90\00:54:35.30
>>JEFFREY: Just say those
are awesome, awesome verses.
00:54:35.30\00:54:37.44
>>DAVID: They're awesome
verses and we'll come to them
00:54:37.44\00:54:38.91
in our next session.
00:54:38.91\00:54:40.04
>>JAMES: No, we'll come to
them in our landby session.
00:54:40.04\00:54:42.64
>>DAVID: Yeah, 'cause it
flows, you have the woman
00:54:42.64\00:54:44.41
fleeing into the
wilderness, the earth helps.
00:54:44.41\00:54:46.88
Well, the earth shows
up hugely in Revelation 13.
00:54:46.88\00:54:48.88
There's this whole beast
that comes up out of the earth.
00:54:48.88\00:54:50.89
So, we have to remember, the
chapter divisions in scripture
00:54:50.89\00:54:53.92
are artificial.
00:54:53.92\00:54:55.02
We're dealing with themes,
and that theme is wrapped up
00:54:55.02\00:54:57.93
pretty well.
00:54:57.93\00:54:59.16
And we'll pick up that, resume
that them in our next session.
00:54:59.16\00:55:02.66
>>TY: That'll work.
00:55:02.66\00:55:03.60
So, to summarize, in
Revelation 12 so far, we
00:55:03.60\00:55:07.50
essentially have the woman,
which is the church, both Old
00:55:07.50\00:55:12.01
Testament, New Testament
era, giving birth to Christ, he
00:55:12.01\00:55:15.14
comes into the world, the
devil, working through earthly
00:55:15.14\00:55:18.61
systems, namely the Roman
empire, tries to conquer Jesus
00:55:18.61\00:55:23.25
by crucifixion.
00:55:23.25\00:55:24.39
Jesus, by his crucifixion,
ironically enough, conquers
00:55:24.39\00:55:29.59
the kingdom of darkness by
truth and love, by revealing
00:55:29.59\00:55:33.06
the character of God,
which runs counter to the claims
00:55:33.06\00:55:35.86
that Satan has made
against the character of God.
00:55:35.86\00:55:39.07
The devil then realizes, well,
wait a minute, my gig is up,
00:55:39.07\00:55:42.54
the only thing I can do
now is persecute the church.
00:55:42.54\00:55:45.01
So, the persecution of the
church post-Calvary is what we
00:55:45.01\00:55:51.65
find in the remainder of
Revelation 12 that we will be
00:55:51.65\00:55:54.88
coming back to later, and
chapter 13, which we will come
00:55:54.88\00:55:58.75
back to as we seek to unpack
chapter 13 and realize more
00:55:58.75\00:56:03.22
fully what's going on
in those final verses.
00:56:03.22\00:56:05.03
So, this has been
a good discussion.
00:56:05.03\00:56:06.90
[Music]
00:56:06.90\00:56:09.93
So, this has been
a good discussion.
00:56:09.93\00:56:10.07