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Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000044A
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00:10 [Music] 00:21 >>TY: Studying the bible with you guys is just really fun 00:25 and enlightening. 00:26 It's edifying. 00:28 Table Talk is exhilarating, amazing. 00:33 >>DAVID: I was trying to come up with another one. 00:34 >>TY: Table Talk is a great format. 00:36 The reason I like it so much, personally, and I think you 00:39 guys concur with this is, it has a history with the 00:43 Protestant reformation. 00:47 Martin Luther actually established a Table Talk 00:50 format, and it wasn't just out of nowhere that he did it, it 00:55 was based on a shift in history and the shift in 00:59 history was that people were realizing that they had equal 01:03 access to God, to his word, and that people could sit 01:06 around a table. 01:07 The table implies equality. 01:09 It implies that you don't have to have somebody between you 01:14 and God, all minds can be brought to the table, all 01:17 minds can be brought to the text, all minds are welcome to 01:20 study scripture and to understand what it's talking 01:23 about. 01:24 So, Table Talk is powerful in that regard. 01:27 We've actually had a few people, there's four guys in 01:29 Australia, for example, who started, I don't know what 01:32 they're calling it, like, Australia Table Talk or Table 01:35 Talk Down Under or Table Talk Aus or something. 01:38 It's just really cool that people, and I've heard other 01:41 reports of people who have told me, yeah, we're just 01:44 doing that in our home. 01:46 We're just getting together with a few friends and we're 01:48 doing our own Table Talk. 01:50 That's pretty exciting. 01:51 >>DAVID: And there's also some people that they just watch 01:53 it, like, it's a small group for them or they do it as a 01:55 Wednesday night bible study for their church or something, 01:58 they sit down and they listen in with their bibles in hand. 02:00 I just imagine, I've had people say, I just imagine I'm 02:03 at the table. 02:03 >>TY: Yeah, yeah. 02:04 >>DAVID: And if there's a group of us that have 02:05 something we wanna say, we just hit pause >>TY: and talk 02:08 and they just talk. 02:09 >>TY: I had a lady come to me at a speaking event recently, 02:12 she looked to me like she was probably in her 70s and she 02:16 said, I enjoy that Table Talk program so much because, my 02:22 whole life, I've been a Christian, this is what she 02:24 told me, I've been a Christian my whole life and I never get 02:27 anything out of sermons. 02:29 But I learn so much... 02:33 >>DAVID: Because of the interaction. 02:34 >>TY: Because of the interaction, listening to the 02:36 discussion. 02:37 >>DAVID: When you opened with the point about how this 02:39 forum, this way of doing study, this way of doing 02:44 Christianity and of connecting with God is born out of the 02:47 protestant reformation, there's a term that we often, 02:50 that's sometimes used for that, and that's the 02:52 priesthood of all believers. 02:54 So, we don't need a priest or a pastor or a scholar to come 02:57 in to say, hey, please, show us thy ways, we can just sit 03:00 down with fair minds, as you said, open minds, with the 03:03 text of scripture and familiarize ourselves with 03:06 what God has revealed. 03:08 >>JEFFREY: Everyone contributes and it's a 03:09 community. 03:10 >>TY: And it's a good process because it requires 03:12 submission, it requires humility, you're not an 03:16 authority figure, I'm not an authority figure, we're 03:19 friends in Christ, comparing thoughts, we can disagree, 03:22 which means you have to concede, though, you have to 03:25 concede. 03:26 You can learn things from others. 03:28 It's just a great process, we enjoy it thoroughly, I enjoy 03:32 doing it with you guys and I know a lot of people are 03:36 taking this process themselves. 03:38 So, where are we at? 03:40 We've come through a lot of Revelation and now, we're in 03:44 chapter 11. 03:45 >>DAVID: So, to remind ourselves of where we're at 03:47 and to remind our viewers, we've got the cycles, the 03:49 seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets, covering the 03:53 same ground. 03:54 Remember, we used the walking across, driving across, flying 03:58 across, covering the same ground. 04:00 We spent time in Revelation chapter 10, the last time we 04:03 were together. 04:05 That is the, that parenthetical statement, that 04:07 interlude in the last of the trumpets, which grows out of 04:11 Revelation 9. 04:12 So, we're there, we're basically halfway through it. 04:14 We did Revelation 10, the sweet book, bitter in the 04:18 belly, you must prophesy again, which gets us right up 04:21 to Revelation 11, which is like the second half of that 04:24 parenthetical statement. 04:25 Now, because Revelation consists of such a depth of 04:29 material and a breadth of material, we don't have time 04:32 to go into every chapter with the same kind of depth, for 04:35 example, that we did in Revelation 10. 04:37 We're coming right up to what many regarded, and I know all 04:41 of us right here at this table regard, as the centerpiece, 04:45 the highlight, the summit of the entire book. 04:48 The interpretive lens, the glasses through which all of 04:52 the book of Revelation is viewed, and that's Revelation 04:54 12, 13, and 14. 04:57 But before we get there, we're just right on the verge of it, 04:59 we're right on the cusp of spilling up, you know, we're 05:01 gonna summit the mountain. 05:03 And I was gonna say, spilling over into this amazing 05:06 section, we've got Revelation 11. 05:10 Which, like Revelation 10, is another, not easy, fairly 05:14 complicated, but very important passage of scripture 05:17 that I think we have to spend at least some time on, a few 05:21 minutes, to get a feel for what sets up Revelation 12, 05:26 13, and 14. 05:28 I know you've done some study on this, Jeffrey. 05:30 >>JEFFREY: Well, we ended chapter 10 with, go prophesy 05:33 again to many peoples and we broke down how chapter 10 was 05:37 in reference to the writings of Daniel, which were in 05:41 reference to prophecy in time to the temple in heaven and to 05:45 this scene that was taking place in the judgement. 05:48 In chapter 11, there's this segue from that scene, and it 05:53 says in verse 1, I was given a reed, like a measuring rod, 05:58 and the angle stood, saying, rise and measure the temple of 06:02 God, the altar and those who worship there. 06:05 So, immediately, chapter 11 begins with measuring taking 06:10 place and it has to do with the temple of God. 06:13 >>TY: Which makes sense because we saw in chapter 10 06:17 that the eating of the little book had to do with the temple 06:22 of God in the sense that it was about the prophecy in 06:26 Daniel chapter 8, verse 14, unto 2,300 days, then shall 06:32 the sanctuary, the temple, be cleansed, or made right, or 06:36 the system that was under attack will begin to be 06:38 rectified and brought to rights in the world and 06:41 people's understanding. 06:43 So, we left off in chapter 10 with temple language. 06:47 The focus is on that temple. 06:49 Now, when we come to chapter 11 and we open with measure 06:54 the temple. 06:55 >>JEFFREY: Continuity. 06:56 >>TY: Continuity. 06:57 There's a connection between the two. 06:59 So, what's met by measure the temple? 07:03 >>JAMES: Well, we have in Revelation chapter 4 and 5, 07:05 remember the throne set in heaven and we identified that 07:07 God's character is under scrutiny. 07:10 And really, when we look at the big picture of the great 07:14 controversy, and the idea that God has put himself out there 07:18 and he's answered the question about, well, if God is love, 07:22 why all this pain and suffering? 07:23 Why this sealed mystery of all this woe, how long? 07:26 When we look at that in the context of Revelation chapter 07:29 11, we're actually being invited by God to measure him. 07:33 The word measure means to judge. 07:34 Judge or measure me. 07:36 Measure the temple of God is the place where God dwells. 07:38 Measure the altar, the altar. 07:39 >>TY: Wow, that's interesting. 07:41 >>JAMES: Yeah, the altar is a representation of the cross. 07:43 The altar is the symbol in the courtyard of the sanctuary 07:46 where the Lamb was offered. 07:47 And so, what God is saying is, he's saying, measure me and 07:51 measure my love for the world. 07:54 And in the context of that, your response to that 07:57 revelation of who I am and what I've done for you will be 08:00 measured. 08:01 >>TY: So, would you think it would be okay to use as a 08:05 synonym for the word measure, the word evaluate? 08:10 >>JAMES: Evaluate is a good one, the word actually means 08:12 to judge. 08:13 It actually means that, it means to judge, and the 08:15 interesting thing about this is, it comes right in the wake 08:18 of the Millerite movement. 08:19 The Millerites discovered that the sanctuary was not the 08:23 earth, but was heaven and Christ was moving into the 08:25 final aspect, the final work of mediation in the heavenly 08:28 sanctuary. 08:29 And therefore, the call to measure God is to see what 08:32 Christ is doing in the heavenly sanctuary and to 08:34 realize or understand his great sacrifice for us. 08:37 And then, for us to be measured in our response to 08:40 that. 08:41 So, it's a perfect fit, really, these two verses are a 08:42 perfect fit to what's happened in the preceding chapter. 08:45 >>JEFFREY: It's like a pause. 08:47 Go prophesy again, at the end of chapter 10, there's this 08:50 movement, when they recover from their disappointment, 08:53 from their bitterness of misunderstanding God's 08:55 activity in the heavenly temple. 08:57 Then, there's a call, go prophesy again. 09:00 And then, in chapter 11, it's as if the vision stops and 09:03 backs up, first of all, to give us a context, 09:10 historically, of what this movement is prophesying into. 09:13 So, chapter 11 is like painting a picture of the kind 09:18 of world that this movement is communicating the character of 09:22 God in. 09:23 It's explaining. 09:24 Yeah, so there's some activity happening in chapter 11, David 09:28 mentioned, we can't get into everything, but immediately, 09:30 we see there's two witnesses here, two witnesses, and these 09:33 two witnesses are killed. 09:34 >>TY: What verse are you in? 09:35 >>JEFFREY: Well... 09:36 >>JAMES: Verse 3 and then verse 4 and then verse 5. 09:40 >>JEFFREY: Yeah. 09:41 >>JAMES: And 6 and 7. 09:42 >>JEFFREY: And the whole chapter. 09:44 I was thinking specifically verse 7, where this beast 09:48 comes out of the bottomless pit and makes war against 09:51 them, overcomes them, kills them, them being the two 09:55 witnesses, so who are these two witnesses? 09:57 >>TY: Yeah, so let's pause. 09:58 We have two symbols here that we need to unravel. 10:01 The beast and the two witnesses. 10:03 >>JAMES: So, really, when you look at this... 10:05 >>DAVID: Well, three really, because you have the 10:07 bottomless pit, as well. 10:08 >>TY: Okay, the beast, the two witnesses, and the bottomless 10:10 pit are three symbols here that need to be cracked. 10:13 >>JAMES: Yeah, the two witnesses represent the Old 10:15 and New Testament. 10:16 And the reason why they're significant is because they 10:18 are that which testify of God. 10:20 It's in the bible that we get this picture of who God really 10:23 is and if we're gonna measure God, that measurement is gonna 10:26 take place through our understanding of the word of 10:28 God. 10:30 So, these guys are witnessing but they're witnessing, it 10:32 says, clothed in sack cloth. 10:33 They're witnessing in a time when there's a lot of 10:35 affliction taking place. 10:37 Sack cloth, mourning, weeping, persecution, and at the end of 10:42 this period of mourning or darkness, where they're in 10:45 this affliction, they're actually gonna be killed by 10:47 this beast and the beast, in prophecy, represents an 10:50 earthly kingdom or power. 10:52 >>TY: We know that, just for those who are sitting in on 10:55 the study, from Daniel chapter 7. 10:57 Explicitly tells us that a beast, which you could just 11:01 translate it as animal, beast sounds beastly, just an animal 11:05 represents a kingdom, like, we have the American eagle, the 11:08 Russian bear, same type of idea. 11:11 >>JEFFREY: Political entity. 11:12 >>JAMES: What's incredible about this prophecy is that it 11:14 was, there was an event that took place in the late 1700s 11:19 that perfectly fulfilled this prophecy. 11:21 There was a kingdom or a power that rose up in, it says here 11:25 that this beast rose up out of the bottomless pit out of 11:28 darkness and confusion because the bottomless pit in the 11:31 Greek is the abyso or the abyss, it represents the earth 11:34 in a state of darkness or confusion, but there was 11:37 darkness and confusion one specific country in Europe, 11:41 one of the 10 nations, so the country in Europe was France, 11:45 and in this country, it got dark, because what happened 11:48 was people basically, it's called the French revolution, 11:51 people rose up against king and priest. 11:55 And what it was, was God had been misrepresented by the 11:58 religion of France and by the religion of Europe at the 12:02 time. 12:03 >>TY: By the marriage of religion with politics. 12:05 >>DAVID: In the medieval period. 12:07 >>JAMES: And people rose up and they just tossed the 12:09 bible. 12:11 They tossed the two witnesses, literally, in the streets and 12:13 burned them, killed it, destroyed it, they became an 12:15 atheistic nation. 12:16 That's why it uses the symbolism here of Egypt and 12:19 where our Lord was crucified because Egypt represents an 12:22 atheistic power. 12:23 >>JEFFREY: Verse 8. 12:24 >>JAMES: Yeah, Exodus 5:2, who is God that I should obey his 12:26 voice and let his people know? 12:27 >>TY: I don't know this God. 12:29 >>JAMES: I don't know this God. 12:31 So, that symbolism ploy to bring us back to the history 12:33 of the Old Testament, to bring us back to this atheistic 12:36 power that denied God and then, we fast-forward to the 12:38 history of atheism in France where the people rose up and 12:42 rebelled and kicked out the monarchs and kicked out the 12:45 church. 12:47 >>TY: Did more than kick out, man, they were, it was just a 12:48 bloodbath. 12:49 >>JAMES: And in the context of that, the bible itself was 12:53 burned in the streets. 12:54 So, this is the history of the French revolution that is 12:57 summarized in these verses, and like Jeffrey said, the 13:00 reason why it's important is because it gives us the 13:03 environment in which this movement is going to preach 13:08 out of this. 13:10 This is the environment of the earth, this is what's taking 13:11 place in the earth when this movement begins to rise up and 13:14 proclaim this message of the judgement hour. 13:17 >>DAVID: And we should say, at least, for me, it's very 13:20 helpful to realize that when the French revolution was 13:22 taking place against king and against priest, against 13:26 religion and against the civil power, this was not against a 13:30 fairly and biblically represented God, this was 13:34 against a religious system that was so perverted and so 13:37 skewed and obvoscated, the God of scripture, what they 13:41 thought they were warring against was scripture. 13:43 What they thought they were antagonistic against or 13:45 frustrated with was scripture and the God of scripture, but 13:48 it was actually a perversion, a gross misrepresentation of 13:51 who and what God actually is. 13:52 >>JAMES: That's exactly why the verse, in verse 11 says, 13:56 measure me. 13:57 Examine me, evaluate me. 13:59 Check me out. 14:00 >>JEFFREY: I was gonna say also that that's implied in 14:02 verse 3, because the two witnesses are in sack cloth, 14:05 right? 14:06 So, clearly, the word of God is mourning. 14:08 Well, what's the word of God mourning? 14:10 >>JAMES: Good point. 14:11 >>JEFFREY: The word of God is mourning, there's a gross 14:13 misrepresentation of God and of the witnesses, and so, this 14:16 misrepresentation paints a certain picture of God that 14:20 elicits this reaction, this allergic reaction from one of 14:25 the most sophisticated, modern societies of the time and they 14:28 decide, we want nothing to do with God. 14:31 And so, that's really the historical. 14:33 >>TY: Maybe we want nothing to do with God, and we've put it 14:35 in quote marks because, essentially, what we're 14:37 suggesting is you have historical developments that 14:40 are taking place here in which God has been so grossly 14:44 misrepresented and uglified in people's understanding that 14:49 atheism was not born in the modern world as a scientific 14:53 atheism. 14:54 It wasn't a scientific movement until 100-150 years 14:57 later, it wasn't atheism on the premise of evolutionary 15:02 theory, some of that was starting to develop in 15:05 people's thinking, but it was what some historians have 15:08 referred to as a protest atheism. 15:11 It wasn't, I don't believe in God because biology proves God 15:15 doesn't exist, it's I don't believe in God because if 15:19 that's what God is like, I can't get my mind and my heart 15:24 to the worship of the monster that has reigned over the 15:29 world through the medieval church. 15:31 >>JEFFREY: And some, the viewer might say, well, 15:33 there's always been atheists, there's always been people who 15:35 didn't believe in God, but this is pointing to a 15:38 significant moment in history, and this is the first time in 15:42 history where a political entity, where nation proper 15:45 votes into legislation that there is no God. 15:48 >>TY: There literally was a voted law. 15:52 We vote God out of existence. 15:54 >>JEFFREY: In fact, in 1793, the French Assembly 15:57 specifically voted against the bible, outlawed the bible, 16:02 burned bibles and so forth, that's really what's 16:05 happening. 16:06 >>DAVID: And we should say, again, to belaver the point, 16:09 in fairness to the people that were making that decision, 16:12 they were rebelling against a system that had misrepresented 16:15 who and what God was and the vast majority of what they 16:19 were rebelling against was deservedly rebelled against. 16:23 >>JEFFREY: We ourselves would've rebelled against. 16:25 >>DAVID: Exactly. 16:26 The danger is, is that in the pendulous nature that is 16:28 humanity and that is human history, rather than swinging 16:32 to the center and saying, hey, there's a misrepresentation 16:34 here, I've read the text myself, it was just to throw 16:37 the whole thing out and to just spurn God full stop. 16:41 Not your misrepresentation of God, not this portrait that 16:45 you've been painting, but just God. 16:47 >>TY: Well, it was just assumed that, the church, if 16:49 anybody, knows... 16:50 >>DAVID: Who knows what's in that book? 16:52 It's gotta be the church. 16:53 >>TY: The church is the authority and the way you've 16:55 represented it, I can't possibly believe it. 16:57 >>JEFFREY: Especially the fact that, during that period, the 17:00 bible was kept away from the people, so. 17:02 >>JAMES: Alright, so now we've done overtime on Revelation 17:04 11, we've gone over our time. 17:06 This is a perfect segue into Revelation 12 and this is why 17:10 it's a perfect segue, because in Revelation chapter 12, we 17:13 get to the top of the summit, we put on the lenses, and all 17:15 of a sudden, we see that the whole issue of 17:19 misrepresentation of God's character began not on planet 17:22 earth, but in heaven. 17:23 It began with this dragon that has misrepresented God from 17:27 the very beginning. 17:28 So, now, it's as though John is saying, okay, wait a minute 17:30 now, all of this history that we've been looking at and all 17:32 of this misrepresentation, here's where it all started 17:35 and here's where it's going to end. 17:38 So, as we move into this next chapter, it's all gonna come 17:40 together. 17:42 >>TY: And we'll do that right after the break, so let's push 17:43 the pause button. 17:44 >>JEFFREY: That was hot. 17:46 [Music] 17:57 >>This is the story of Niyima, who took a bus to the 18:01 doctor and found a piece of paper with words of hope about 18:06 Jesus, which was left by a church member who unpacked a 18:10 box that came from a truck which drove in from Durban 18:14 where a ship was docked that sailed from Seattle, loaded 18:18 with containers stacked high with millions of tracts, 18:23 trucked in from the Light Bearers Publishing House, 18:26 where more than 600 million pieces of gospel literature 18:29 have been printed in 42 languages. 18:33 Here's the amazing thing, Light Bearers distributes this 18:36 literature free of charge all over the world, and each piece 18:41 costs only 5 pennies to print, transport, and deliver. 18:46 Every day, millions of people buy a $5 cup of coffee, $5 a 18:52 cup, 5 days a week. 18:55 It adds up fast. 18:57 But at just 5 cents apiece, that same $25 can also ship 19:02 500 pieces of literature and give hope to people like 19:07 Niyima, who shared that paper with a classmate, who gave it 19:13 to her cousin, who shared it with his boss, who passed it 19:17 to her grandmother, who left it on another bus, where it 19:21 will be found by someone else. 19:25 And the story continues. 19:27 Five cents doesn't buy a lot these days, but in other parts 19:32 of the world, your nickel could change someone's life. 19:36 Your gift of $25 a month sends out 6,000 pieces of gospel 19:40 literature each year. 19:42 Fifty dollars sends out 12,000, and $100 a month sends 19:48 out 24,000 messages of hope every year, all over the 19:52 world. 19:54 Empower Light Bearers to continue the story. 19:58 Send your gift through lightbearers.org, or by 20:01 calling 877-585-1111. 20:06 Who knew 5 little pennies could do so much? 20:10 [Music] 20:17 >>TY: We came to a really good conclusion with chapter 20:21 11, in that final comment you made, James, before the break, 20:25 because what you essentially did was point out that all the 20:29 mess that's going on in the French Revolution and in human 20:33 history in general, where people are struggling with the 20:37 existence and the character of God, you suggested that when 20:40 we come to chapter 12 now, that all of that's traceable 20:45 back to an original misrepresentation of God's 20:48 character. 20:49 So, here's where we're at. 20:50 The parenthetical statement, the interlude that we just 20:55 covered in chapter 10 in the last segment of our 21:00 discussion, in the last discussion we had and then, 21:04 chapter 11 is now closing off the interlude or the 21:07 parenthetical statement. 21:08 So, now, we're entering into the fourth cycle, or the 21:12 fourth swath of history that backs up again to first 21:16 century and then moves straightforward from that 21:19 point, we have the seven churches, the seven seals, the 21:22 seven trumpets, we just dealt with the interlude in the 21:26 trumpets, chapters 10 and 11, and now, we're in chapter 12, 21:31 we've come to the mountaintop, the pinnacle of Revelation, by 21:37 the way, we didn't mention that the book of Revelation is 21:40 written as a cayastic structure, or in the shape of 21:43 a mountain. 21:44 Deliberately, John has constructed the book of 21:47 Revelation in a poetic form in order to drive attention to 21:51 chapters 12-14, in order to give us chapters 12-14 as the 21:58 interpretive lens for all the other prophecies that are 22:03 taking place in Revelation. 22:04 So, we're in chapter 12 now. 22:05 >>DAVID: And we should just say that's not our opinion, 22:07 there are great textual evidences for that notion 22:09 that'll come out as we get into 12, 13, and 14, that 22:14 you'll see that, you know, you're at the summit, you're 22:16 looking down this way, back to Revelation 1 to 11, and then 22:20 you're gonna be looking this way down from Revelation 22 to 22:23 Revelation 15, that you, this gives you that broad 22:27 perspective that only a summit can. 22:30 You're here and like, ah, so, this is what's going on. 22:33 >>TY: So, in Revelation 12, there are a lot of symbols, 22:39 but there are 3 basic symbols to be interpreted. 22:41 There's a woman, there is a child that the woman gives 22:45 birth to, and there is a dragon. 22:48 These are the three main symbols in Revelation chapter 22:52 12. 22:53 So, let's just start with verse 1 of chapter 12. 22:56 Now, a great sign, or a symbol appeared in heaven, a woman 23:02 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on 23:07 her head, a garland of 12 stars. 23:11 Then, verse 2, being with child, she cried out in labor 23:16 and in pain to give birth. 23:19 So, the first two verses, we have this woman, she's 23:21 obviously pregnant, she's in labor pains and this woman is 23:25 about to bring a child into the world. 23:28 This woman is described with certain symbolic markers. 23:33 She's clothed with the sun, she has the moon under her 23:35 feet. 23:36 There's a garland of 12 stars on her head. 23:38 Highly symbolic. 23:40 >>DAVID: All of them light bringing. 23:41 >>TY: Interesting. 23:43 >>DAVID: All of them light bringing. 23:44 The sun is light, the moon brings light, the stars give 23:46 light. 23:47 That's a Genesis 1 and 2 thing. 23:49 So, this woman, we haven't yet identified her, but she will 23:51 bringing light into a world, we just came out of the world 23:55 of Revelation 11, that's a dark world, right? 24:00 The word of God is outlawed, you know, that's a dark world 24:03 that sets up, hey, here's light. 24:06 Sun, moon, stars. 24:08 >>TY: So, break down the symbols more specifically, 24:10 then, who or what is the woman and she's pregnant with who or 24:15 what child? 24:17 >>DAVID: Well, in both the Old and the New Testaments, we 24:18 find sufficient, ample biblical data to let us know 24:23 that a woman represents God's people. 24:26 So, we have Old Testament passages where the scripture 24:30 says that God's people is a woman, I have likened the 24:34 daughter of Zion to a delicate and calmly woman. 24:37 And we have, you know, Ezekiel, where I found you and 24:40 you were beautiful and I, we have all of that, Ezekiel, 24:43 that sort of, 20, 23, 26, that section. 24:46 >>JEFFREY: In the New Testament, it's Ephesians 5. 24:50 >>DAVID: That's right, husbands love your wives 24:53 as Christ also loved the church. 24:54 And then we've got even John, who writes a letter to the 24:57 elect lady, right? 24:59 He writes it to the church, to the elect lady. 25:02 He's not writing a letter... 25:03 >>TY: And even in Revelation, when we come to chapter 19, 25:06 the bride of Christ. 25:07 >>DAVID: So, the point here is what we're dealing with is a 25:09 symbol, we've been dealing with symbols all the way 25:11 through, of the people of God, and this is a really great one 25:16 because this is innocent, she's pure, she's pregnant, 25:19 she's bringing light into the world. 25:21 So, here we have the people of God at a certain, crucial time 25:24 in earth's history, preparing to give birth. 25:28 Now, we're gonna see this in a moment, but the child that 25:30 she's going to bring forth is Jesus. 25:32 >>TY: This is a direct reference to the very first 25:38 gospel promise and prophecy in Genesis 3:15. 25:41 After humanity fell into sin, God specifically spoke to the 25:47 serpent, the devil, who had coocted the serpent as its 25:51 medium, God is speaking to the devil, in the presence of Adam 25:56 and Eve, and he says to the serpent, I will put enmity, or 26:00 hostility between you and the woman and the woman, between 26:04 your offspring and her offspring. 26:07 And the woman, who is at enmity with you will give 26:13 birth to a child and that child, that seed, singular, 26:17 that seed that is eventually coming through the woman will 26:20 crush your head and you will bruise his heel. 26:23 This is the first gospel promise, prophecy, and it 26:26 tells us that there will be two lines down through 26:30 history, a serpent lineage and a woman lineage. 26:35 The serpent lineage and the woman lineage, this isn't just 26:39 talking, this isn't talking about genetics, it's not 26:42 talking about two ethnicities, it's talking about principles. 26:46 There will be two theological lineages, two moral lineages, 26:51 two lineages of principles that will be at odds with one 26:55 another down through human history. 26:58 >>JEFFREY: Enmity, yeah. 26:59 >>TY: Enmity, so the woman now is about to give birth to that 27:03 child that Genesis 3:15 prophesied would eventually 27:06 come into the world. 27:07 >>DAVID: And we should say that there's an intertextual 27:10 evidence that what you've just said is true, i.e. 27:12 that this is referencing Genesis 3:15, because right in 27:15 Revelation 12, verse 9, I know we'll get there in a moment, 27:18 but it says, the great dragon was cast out, that serpent 27:20 called the devil and Satan. 27:21 >>TY: That serpent of old. 27:23 >>DAVID: That serpent of old, that's Genesis 3, that's 27:24 taking us right back to the opening chapters. 27:26 >>JAMES: And so is the woman, because when you look at the 27:28 woman, in Genesis chapter 3, Adam and Eve, the woman, in 27:33 Genesis 3 lost her clothing. 27:34 She lost her light, and in Revelation chapter 12, the 27:37 woman is clothed with light. 27:39 >>TY: Interesting. 27:40 >>DAVID: She's told, basically, that you will, in 27:43 child bearing, right, this is post, something about the 27:47 birth of a child would bring about this hostility, the 27:49 seed. 27:50 >>JAMES: And one thing that I think is really significant 27:52 here is, you know, before Adam and Eve fell, it says they 27:56 were naked and they were not ashamed, and the reason they 27:59 were not ashamed is because they were made in the image of 28:01 God and we're told in Psalm 102, verse 4, that God clothes 28:03 himself in light. 28:05 You know all these pictures these artists make of Adam and 28:07 Eve in the garden before the fall. 28:09 >>DAVID: And their hair is falling just perfectly. 28:10 >>JAMES: Yeah, and they're hiding behind a bush. 28:12 >>DAVID: The leaf is just covering the bits and pieces. 28:14 >>TY: [Laughter] 28:15 >>JAMES: I've seen one recently where Jesus is there 28:18 with them and he's clothed in light, he's clothed in a robe 28:20 of light, but Adam and Eve are naked, except they're hiding 28:22 behind, and I'm thinking, wait a minute, we've missed this. 28:24 Adam and Eve were clothed with light and that's why they 28:28 weren't ashamed. 28:30 And when they sinned, they lost their robes of light and 28:31 then, they realized, we're naked. 28:34 But the woman, in Revelation, is clothed. 28:36 So, you've got the serpent, you've got the woman, you've 28:38 got the light thing going on. 28:41 >>TY: Interesting. 28:42 >>DAVID: He dwells in light so that no man can approach. 28:44 There's a lot of that. 28:45 >>TY: So, explicitly, the woman, in Revelation 12:1-2, 28:49 is Israel. 28:51 It is the people of God, it's the transition between the 28:57 two, however, because this is, Israel is the church of the 29:03 Old Testament period that is the lineage through which 29:05 Jesus has brought in the world and this is the hinge between 29:11 ancient Israel, literal Israel, and spiritual Israel, 29:16 because the church in the New Testament is still called 29:18 Israel. 29:19 >>DAVID: I hate that term spiritual Israel. 29:21 >>TY: How about... 29:23 >>DAVID: I just say Israel. 29:25 >>TY: That's, it's all Israel. 29:26 I like that. 29:27 >>DAVID: That's right, because in the Old Testament, there 29:29 were people that were Israelites in terms of being 29:30 descendants of Abraham, but they were not God's faithful 29:32 people, and when we come to the New Testament, there are 29:34 people that are of Israel that are, you know, Paul speaks, 29:37 it's just Israel. 29:38 Right through... 29:40 >>JAMES: So, it's Israel in prophecy. 29:42 We could say Revelation 12 is Israel in prophecy. 29:45 >>DAVID: 100%. 29:46 Which is part of the reason, I think, why Stephen, and just 29:49 to quickly pan out, you mentioned the church, it's 29:51 like the church. 29:52 Stephen, in Acts chapter 7, says that, he says that Israel 29:55 was the church in the wilderness. 29:57 Because the church is just ecclesia, the ones that are 30:00 called out. 30:01 Jesus purposefully, with great significance and with 30:05 pregnancy, ordains 12. 30:10 He knew what he was doing. 30:11 It wasn't 10, it wasn't 8, it wasn't 11. 30:14 >>TY: He was reenacting. 30:16 >>DAVID: Absolutely. 30:17 >>JEFFREY: It's Israel 2.0, basically. 30:20 It's a reenactment of... 30:22 >>DAVID: I'm okay with that, I like that better than 30:23 spiritual Israel, but it's just Israel. 30:24 >>JAMES: But here's the point. 30:26 >>DAVID: It was always God's elect people that were, that 30:30 had the faith of Abraham. 30:32 This is Paul's whole point. 30:33 >>JEFFREY: It encompasses the apostolic church. 30:35 >>TY: Which is Israel. 30:38 >>JAMES: We'll see that in the text, because the woman is the 30:40 woman. 30:41 The woman stays the woman. 30:42 Okay, but here's the point, we don't wanna miss this point. 30:44 Revelation 12, again, is summarizing deception. 30:48 So, you have, right here, we've alluded to the deception 30:51 in Genesis. 30:52 What was it that Satan did? 30:53 He came to this earth and he basically misrepresented the 30:56 character of God. 30:57 He basically put God forth as a withholder. 31:00 God was one who was wanting to oppress you, control you, 31:03 withhold from you, keep the fruit from you, keep you from 31:05 reaching a higher sphere. 31:08 So, that first outline, because of the woman, the 31:11 serpent, the robe, the light, is there in Revelation chapter 31:15 12, and then, in a brilliant move of inspiration, of 31:20 course, John goes all the way back to heaven and he starts 31:24 talking about this dragon in heaven and this deception that 31:27 took place in heaven, where he took his tail and of course, 31:30 in the Old Testament, Isaiah 9:15, I believe it says, the 31:34 prophet teaches lies, he is the tail. 31:37 So, lies were told in heaven about God and he took the 31:40 stars out of heaven and cast them into the ground. 31:42 Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is because, and I 31:44 don't wanna go too far ahead here, we can go back and, but 31:47 the whole chapter here is gonna conclude with the fact 31:53 that heaven is rejoicing, but woe unto the earth, because 31:56 the devil's come unto you, having great power, knowing 31:58 his time is short and he's seeking to deceive the whole 32:00 world. 32:01 He deceived the angels in heaven, number one, he 32:05 deceived the woman in the wilderness, number two, and 32:07 now, he's out to deceive the whole world. 32:09 It's all about deception in relation to the character of 32:11 God. 32:12 >>DAVID: Who God is. 32:13 >>JAMES: Who God is. 32:14 So, the light that we're talking about, David brought 32:15 it out, you've got the sun, the moon, and the stars, the 32:17 light that's coming is not just theological light, it's 32:20 not just the light of academics, it's not just 32:22 doctrinal, yeah, it's the light of the logic of the 32:25 glory of God. 32:26 It's the light of his character. 32:27 >>DAVID: Jesus is the light that lights... 32:28 >>JAMES: Judge me. 32:29 Measure me. 32:30 Measure my sacrifice, measure the temple. 32:32 >>JEFFREY: She's pregnant, right? 32:33 She's about to bring forth a child. 32:38 >>DAVID: But just as she's about ready to do that, here 32:40 comes the third element, 'cause we got the woman, we 32:41 got the child. 32:43 >>TY: Verse 3 now. 32:44 >>DAVID: Dragon. 32:45 >>TY: Where'd we get that red dragon? 32:48 >>DAVID: I have no idea, but he's pretty awesome. 32:49 >>TY: That's an amazing red dragon and that is exactly 32:52 what's described in, well, not exactly, we don't know 32:55 exactly, but that looks like a great red dragon. 32:58 >>DAVID: And he looks like he's ready to devour something 33:01 or someone. 33:02 >>JAMES: There appeared another wonder in heaven, 33:04 behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten 33:06 horns and seven crowns upon his heads and his tail drew 33:09 the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the 33:12 earth, and the dragon stood before the woman, which was 33:14 ready to be delivered, for it devoured her child as soon as 33:18 it was born. 33:19 And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all 33:21 nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up to God 33:24 and to his throne. 33:26 >>TY: This is amazing. 33:27 >>JEFFREY: That language is, you run into it again in 33:29 chapter 19, don't you? 33:31 >>JAMES: Which language? 33:32 >>JEFFREY: The language about the child ruling the nations 33:36 with a rod of iron, because in chapter 19 of Revelation, you 33:39 have the same thing, you have... 33:41 >>DAVID: Clearly, it's Jesus. 33:42 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, you have Christ, and in verse 15, he 33:45 will rule with a rod of iron, so this is the child, the man 33:48 child, the Messiah, this is Jesus. 33:49 >>DAVID: So, to answer the question of who these things 33:53 are, we've done, the text does this for us. 33:56 The woman is God's people, the church, Israel, in that 34:01 transition period, the dragon is that old serpent called the 34:04 devil and Satan, and the child is Jesus. 34:06 >>TY: Right. 34:08 >>DAVID: So, if you just fill that in and read through it, 34:09 it's pretty awesome. 34:11 >>JAMES: Yeah, because, when Jesus was born, remember, 34:12 Herod, who was a vessel, if you will, of Rome, Herod 34:16 tries to destroy Christ. 34:17 The wise men come, he's like, oh, yeah, tell me all about 34:20 him, I'm gonna kill that baby, and then, you know, 3 years 34:22 later, they don't show up, and so, he sends his soldiers into 34:24 Bethlehem to destroy all the children 3 years of age and 34:27 under. 34:28 >>TY: This is an interesting point you're making because we 34:30 just said that the great red dragon is Satan, the fallen 34:34 angel, but you just described his actions here through the 34:39 Roman empire. 34:40 So, there's a sense in which we understand from the text 34:44 that there is the fallen angel, Lucifer, this is the 34:48 great red dragon in the symbol's ultimate definition, 34:53 but the great red dragon, i.e. 34:56 Satan, works through earthly powers. 35:00 >>JEFFREY: Structures, systems. 35:03 >>JAMES: That was brought up in Revelation chapter 2, 35:04 remember, when we were talking about the church of Smyrna, 35:06 fear none of those things which you shall suffer, 35:09 behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison. 35:12 >>TY: Yeah, the devil, it was the Roman empire. 35:17 >>JEFFREY: It was through systems and powers. 35:20 >>DAVID: And we should say, in fairness to, we mentioned the 35:22 historicist, preterist, all of those schools of, it is true 35:26 that the Roman empire shows up significantly as certain 35:30 points. 35:32 >>TY: So, preterism is true as far as it is true. 35:35 >>DAVID: Exactly. 35:37 But, the problem is, is that when we just try to confine it 35:39 expressly to the Roman empire, 'cause there's just too much 35:43 going on here, it's too big, you've got this cosmic foe, 35:47 which is exactly where you mentioned that it goes, James, 35:49 to 7, is it alright if I just jump down to 7? 35:51 >>JEFFREY: Whoa, you're gonna skip? 35:54 >>DAVID: I don't think I skipped anything 'cause I 35:56 thought you read... 35:58 >>TY: We gotta look, though... 36:00 >>JEFFREY: Well, I was gonna point out in verse 5 that the 36:02 child is born and then, the text ends with him being 36:05 caught up to God and to his throne, that encompasses the 36:08 entire earthly presence of Christ. 36:10 >>TY: The whole Christ event, it's shorthand there. 36:13 >>JEFFREY: What do you think of the transition, before you 36:15 move to verse 7. 36:16 >>JAMES: It's key. 36:17 >>JEFFREY: The transition between 5 and 6, I find 36:19 profound, because it's as if Satan unleashed all the power 36:23 he had on earth, through Rome and so forth to get this child 36:28 and the child, in essence, slips out of his hands and 36:31 gets caught up to God and to his throne, and the dragon is 36:35 down here, enraged, and with Jesus out of his grasp, where 36:39 now does the dragon turn?. 36:41 >>DAVID: To those that have faith in Jesus. 36:42 >>TY: But the brilliant part about this, that I was gonna 36:46 make in verses 5 and 6 is that, when it says that the 36:49 child was caught up to God and his throne, that is death, 36:54 burial, resurrection, ascension language. 36:57 That's shorthand for the dragon stood before the woman 37:03 to devour her child as soon as he was born, that happened in 37:06 the crucifixion. 37:07 He was, in fact, devoured by the Roman empire, crucified 37:11 under a Roman cross. 37:12 >>DAVID: Put in a Roman tomb. 37:14 >>TY: Yeah, and the poetic justice of the whole thing is 37:17 that what appears to be defeat, he's the one on the 37:21 cross, crucified, bloody, bruised, dying, and he's 37:25 caught up to the right hand position of victory at the 37:29 throne of God, Jesus is victorious by virtue of his 37:35 self-sacrificing death at Calvary. 37:37 >>JEFFREY: So, Jesus monopolizes the devil's 37:39 agenda, basically. 37:40 >>TY: That's right. 37:41 >>JEFFREY: The devil stings him and it backfires. 37:43 >>TY: At Calvary, love and selfishness stood face to face 37:50 in mortal combat and love trumped evil. 37:54 Love gained the victory over the devil's principles. 37:59 Jesus went to the cross and all the voices around him were 38:04 saying if you really are the Son of God, that is, if you 38:08 are God and you have power, save yourself, save yourself, 38:12 save yourself. 38:13 The irony is that precisely because he was the Son of God, 38:17 he would not save himself, but rather save us at his own 38:20 expense. 38:21 >>JAMES: Amen. 38:22 >>TY: And that's the beauty of the cross. 38:25 It conquers evil by truth and love rather than resorting to 38:32 the methods of deception and force. 38:34 >>DAVID: This takes us back to two things I wanna say, the 38:37 first is that it takes us back to Revelation 5, when the 38:39 throne room vision was seen, the being, the symbol that 38:45 John saw sitting on the throne, i.e., this is how God 38:48 governs, was a Lamb, as if it had been slain. 38:53 So, crucifixion, vulnerability, humility, 38:56 belongs to the way that God rules the universe. 39:01 It's not just might, it's not just power, it's not that, in 39:03 fact. 39:04 That's the first thing I wanna say. 39:05 The second thing I wanna say is that it's always struck me 39:07 as interesting that the word, back in Genesis 3:15, is the 39:10 same word, bruised. 39:12 He will bruise your head and you will bruise his heel. 39:15 I think this is interesting. 39:17 The means by which, bruise and bruise. 39:20 You'll try to bruise, but you'll get bruised. 39:21 The means by which you try to inflict the death on Messiah 39:28 is the means by which the death is inflicted on you. 39:31 It's like you throw a ball really hard against the wall 39:34 and it hits you in the eye. 39:36 It's like, bam, I was not expecting that. 39:38 >>JAMES: He that kills with the sword must be killed with 39:39 the sword. 39:41 >>DAVID: That's exactly right, and I love this idea here 39:42 that, I think the point you were making, Ty, and we just, 39:45 our enthusiasm is just carrying us away here, is that 39:48 he's about ready to pounce, and before he knows it, he 39:51 actually does do the thing he intended to do, and then, the 39:55 ball, come back and hits him in the eye, kills him, you 39:58 know, and it's like, oh. 40:00 Well, that didn't work like I thought. 40:03 >>TY: What am I gonna do now? 40:04 >>DAVID: Because, if you think about it, I preached a sermon 40:05 recently where I said, the cross is a strange throne. 40:09 But in a really significant sense, the cross becomes the 40:15 throne of God, because it's a Lamb as if it had been slain. 40:18 Where was he slain? 40:19 He was slain on a Roman instrument of torture, of 40:21 power, and of strength, and going back to something we've 40:23 mentioned before, you know, God could've wrapped this 40:25 whole conflict up with just a single flex, as it were, of 40:28 his muscles. 40:30 Just to use a simple analogy. 40:31 God is winning this war in a very different way. 40:35 Not with might, not with power, not with strength, not 40:38 with violence. 40:40 He's not out monstering the monsters, as Ty said early on, 40:43 he is making himself vulnerable, he's making 40:46 himself available, he is. 40:48 >>JAMES: And that's why Revelation says he's the Lamb 40:49 slain from the foundation of the world. 40:50 >>TY: He's always been this way. 40:52 >>JAMES: Not only has he always been this way, but this 40:54 is the strategy he inculcated from the beginning and this, 40:57 he has experienced the humiliation all the way 41:01 through, all of the accusations, all of the fault 41:03 finding, all of the finger pointing at God from the very 41:05 beginning. 41:06 Even with those of us who believed, he's born all of 41:09 that on his heart. 41:10 He's continued to bear that from the very beginning. 41:12 So, this makes sense of that verse, it makes sense of what 41:16 it means of what God has gone through in that context. 41:19 >>TY: The poetic irony of Jesus hanging on the cross 41:23 with the inscription King of the Jews, just amazing that 41:30 the cross is God enthroned in a way that nobody would've 41:36 ever expected for God to be enthroned. 41:38 >>JEFFREY: That thing with backfiring, it backfired on 41:40 what the devil was doing to Jesus, it's the same thing 41:42 with the church, isn't it? 41:43 So, it backfires on the devil, he unleashes persecution on 41:46 the church, and the more he persecutes the church, it 41:49 turns out to strengthen the church. 41:51 >>TY: The blood of martyrs is, see, we have to take a break, 41:54 'cause... 41:56 >>DAVID: Can I just say this quick quotation, one of my 41:57 favorite, favorite quotations, Bruce Shelley, the late Bruce 42:00 Shelley, church historian, said, Christianity is the only 42:04 major world religion to have as its central event the 42:10 humiliation of its God. 42:13 >>TY: That's a good point to close on, we'll come right 42:16 back on that. 42:18 [Music] 42:29 Announcer: The Light Bearers Story is a short award-winning 42:31 video that gives an inside look at one of the boldest and 42:34 most effective missionary ventures of our time. 42:38 You will see how multiple millions of gospel 42:40 publications are flooding the nations free of charge by 42:43 surprisingly simple means. 42:45 For your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, call 42:48 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 42:54 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 43:00 Once again, for your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, 43:03 call 877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers 43:09 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 43:15 Simply ask for the Light Bearers Story. 43:19 [Music] 43:25 >>TY: My, oh, my, Revelation chapter 12 is so rich. 43:28 We've only gotten through about verse 5. 43:31 >>DAVID: And we're racing through it. 43:33 >>TY: We're racing, but we've been looping because we were 43:35 jumping ahead to verses 7. 43:37 >>DAVID: Did you say we're loopy? 43:39 >>TY: Looping, we were looping, you are a little 43:41 loopy, but we've been looping back and forth throughout the 43:45 chapter, but what's going on in verse 6, James, because 43:50 this is amazing, the woman is mentioned in verse 1, but the 43:53 woman is mentioned again in verse 6. 43:55 >>JAMES: Well, in verse 1, we know, we've already identified 43:57 the woman, in verse 1, is the church that bore the man 44:01 child, which was Christ, so, we see this as the Jewish 44:04 church. 44:05 We see this as the church in Christ's day, apostolic age, 44:06 we've started our fourth cycle. 44:08 As we go through this history, we realize that by the time 44:11 Christ is caught up, he's established another church. 44:15 The Jews have rejected him, they've crucified him, along 44:17 with the Romans. 44:18 >>DAVID: Not all Jews, we should say. 44:20 >>JAMES: Right, the Jewish nation, the leadership, okay, 44:22 good clarification, and so, he's chosen his apostles, one 44:26 of them, of course, has been replaced, or is in the process 44:29 of being replaced by Matthias, so he's chosen and ordained 12 44:33 to start what we understand to be the Christian church. 44:36 Now, when you look at the woman here, giving birth to 44:38 the child, Christ himself, in verse 1, and then you go down 44:42 to verse 6, all of a sudden, you've got this woman 44:44 transitioning from the literal Jewish era into this 44:50 wilderness for 1260 days, it says. 44:53 The woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a 44:55 place prepared of God, that they should feed her, they're 44:57 1,200 and 3 score days. 44:59 >>TY: That's verse 6. 45:00 >>JAMES: That's verse 6. 45:01 >>TY: Okay. 45:02 >>JAMES: So, this woman is the church, she's already been 45:04 identified that way, the previous woman is the church, 45:07 she's already been identified that way. 45:08 History tells us that a transition took place after 45:11 the death of Christ, from the Jewish leadership, the Jewish 45:15 nation, to this Christian church to the apostles who 45:19 started, of course, this new era, which we call 45:22 Christianity. 45:23 >>TY: Which, from a biblical perspective is a continuation 45:24 of Israel. 45:25 >>JAMES: Yes. 45:26 That's the point that this chapter's telling. 45:30 >>TY: Something I just learned recently, that blew my mind, 45:33 and we don't have time to look at this, but I recently 45:40 discovered, learned from scripture, that it was never 45:43 God's intention and Moses never articulated that the 45:48 Jewish nation was to be a pure bloodline. 45:51 It was an open invitation. 45:52 They were called out to go in. 45:54 Israel was a city on a hill, a light on a hill and they had 46:00 an open immigration policy. 46:02 The whole point was to pull people in, Israel was supposed 46:06 to fill the whole earth. 46:07 So, it wasn't, Israel is not a strict ethnic idea in 46:12 scripture, Israel is a spiritual, moral, theological 46:17 idea. 46:19 It deals with belief systems, so that's why we can say that 46:23 Israel is a continuation, it's a continuum. 46:26 >>JEFFREY: And that's made explicit with the New 46:28 Testament church, where now, ethnicity goes out the window. 46:31 >>TY: Paul just straight-up says, if you are Christ, you 46:35 are Abraham's seed. 46:37 >>JEFFREY: And you inherit the promises of Abraham. 46:39 >>TY: He's not saying, you know, wink, nod spiritually or 46:43 symbolically, no, you are Israel, you are Israel. 46:46 >>JAMES: And that's what these verses are baring out. 46:49 The woman in verse 1 and the woman in verse 6 is the same 46:52 entity, but we know, historically, Jewish church, 46:54 Christian church. 46:55 >>JEFFREY: But then it goes, fast-forward, there's that 46:57 timeframe in verse 6, 1,260 days. 47:01 And that's not the first time we run into that. 47:04 We flew through it in chapter 11, but we run into it again 47:08 in chapter 11, what are you gonna say? 47:10 >>DAVID: I just, I'm just so sorry, can you hit pause for a 47:12 second? 47:12 >>JEFFREY: Pause. 47:14 >>DAVID: Okay, I think this is the coolest thing. 47:15 The first time the word law occurs, right, law, in the 47:18 book of Exodus, so, we have all this talk about law, law, 47:21 law, law, which, of course, is the writings of Moses, it's 47:25 the law of God, it's all of that. 47:27 The first time it occurs, check this out, Exodus 12, 47:32 verse 49, you ready for this? 47:35 This is the whole centerpiece of what makes a Jew a Jew, 47:40 what makes a descendant of Abraham a descendant of 47:42 Abraham, right, in the post-Exodus era, check this 47:46 out. 47:47 >>TY: Twelve what? 47:48 >>DAVID: 49. 47:49 >>TY: 12:49, I'm there. 47:51 >>DAVID: One law shall be for the native born and for the 47:56 stranger who dwells among you. 47:58 >>TY: Whoa, that's exactly. 48:00 >>DAVID: That's the point. 48:01 In other words, hey, you guys that are ethnic, you're the 48:03 native born, these guys can travel with you and you will 48:06 live by the same law. 48:08 There's no differentiation here. 48:09 These are your people. 48:11 It's a moral. 48:13 >>JEFFREY: Well, you can word it, it's not ethnic, it's how 48:17 you relate to God is what makes you Israel or makes you 48:21 not Israel. 48:22 >>DAVID: And I just love the fact, that's the first time, I 48:23 just double checked it here, father-in-law does occur twice 48:26 in Exodus 3, Jethro, your father-in-law, law, but when 48:29 it comes time for Moses to start, okay, God was saying 48:31 all about the law. 48:32 >>TY: The law is for everyone. 48:34 >>DAVID: He's like, hey, there's just one law. 48:36 >>TY: There's not only one law, there's one Israel. 48:39 There's one Israel. 48:40 There's one people and everybody's invited in, it was 48:43 never supposed to be an elite club, an elite group, a 48:47 segregated people, separate from everybody else. 48:50 It was always supposed to be, I'm calling you out and I'm 48:55 ordaining you as a priesthood, a mediator channel to take 49:00 what I'm teaching you to the whole world, to the whole 49:04 world. 49:05 >>JAMES: Even in the chronology of Jesus bares that 49:06 out. 49:07 'Cause you gotta include his chronology. 49:09 Ruth, for example, and Mobius. 49:11 >>DAVID: Check this out, I just preached on this. 49:13 So, there are four women that are mentioned in the genealogy 49:16 of Jesus, all in Matthew, four women that are mentioned. 49:18 Ruth is mentioned, Rahab is mentioned. 49:20 All of them, the commonality that they have, you know what 49:23 the commonality is? 49:24 >>TY: They're all Gentiles. 49:25 >>DAVID: They're all Gentiles. 49:26 Which is remarkable because, first of all, it was unusual 49:30 for a woman to have been recorded in the genealogy at 49:32 all. 49:34 So, the fact that four are recorded, and you think, oh, 49:36 that's interesting, four women, this is like an 49:38 egalitarian thing. 49:39 That's not the point that Matthew was making. 49:41 The primary commonality that those four women have, and 49:44 he's clearly doing this, he's doing it with great 49:46 intentionality, it's not just that they're feminine, that 49:49 they share a gender, they're all Gentiles. 49:51 I just think this is so awesome. 49:55 >>TY: God was always inclusive, he was always 49:58 saying, take this viral, let's go global with this, I'm only 50:03 calling you out, I'm only calling you out to send you 50:06 in, I'm not calling you out to keep you out. 50:08 We're to be in the world, but not of the world. 50:13 It's incredible. 50:14 >>JEFFREY: Going viral and going global was, it's 50:16 intrinsic. 50:19 Genesis 12. 50:20 The viewer might say, no, they were promised a nation, a 50:24 nation, a specific identity, yes, but then, it says in 50:28 verse 3 that, in you all the families of the earth shall be 50:33 blessed. 50:34 So, there is yes, a nation, but the nation, the formation 50:37 of the nation is just to facilitate going global. 50:40 >>TY: I have to comment on this from another angle, I 50:43 remember the first time, I remember the first time, you 50:48 gotta be quick, okay, I remember the first time that I 50:51 was reading through Isaiah and discovered, in chapter 49, 50:57 that the Messiah that is prophesied of is specifically 51:01 said to be the Messiah, Savior, Redeemer not only of 51:05 Israel but of the peoples of all the coastlands and islands and 51:09 specifically the people of Senem, China. 51:13 >>JAMES: Really? 51:14 >>TY: Yes. 51:15 So, God has always intended for the message of the gospel 51:22 to be taken to all the world and for every person for every 51:25 nation to be incorporated into Israel and that bares out in 51:30 Revelation chapter 7, which we didn't spend a lot of time on, 51:32 we didn't spend any time on it, but the final, the final 51:36 manifestation of God's people, every single person who is 51:41 ultimately saved is a part of Israel, the 12 tribes, the 51:47 144,000, and they're called the 12 tribes, they're called 51:51 the 144,000, and then, they're called, every nation, kindred, 51:55 tongue, and people. 51:56 So, every nation composes Israel in the end. 51:59 >>DAVID: That's why I said in the session before and before. 52:01 I just don't like that spiritual Israel thing 52:03 because, to me, it introduces a demarcation, them and, no, 52:09 the point right through, and it begins in Genesis 12, as 52:13 you said, all the families of the earth. 52:16 Incidentally, Peter quotes that very text in Acts chapter 52:20 3, outpouring of the Holy Spirit, all of these Jews that 52:23 have travelled there to here, or actually, they didn't come 52:26 to here, but for the pilgrim feast, they're hearing the 52:28 preaching, that's Genesis, outpouring of the spirit of 52:31 the Pentecost in Acts 2, Acts 3, the sky's healed, 52:33 restoration's taking place, communion's taking place, 52:36 unity's taking place, and then, Peter says, in his 52:39 preaching, look, you are the sons of the prophets and of 52:42 the covenant that God made with our fathers, saying to 52:45 Abraham, comma, and in your seed shall all the families of 52:49 the earth be blessed. 52:51 In other words... 52:53 >>JEFFREY: So, Jesus came to ratify that original global, 52:55 viral vision. 52:57 >>DAVID: And the early church understood that. 52:59 They got it, they got it. 53:01 >>TY: It took a lot to get it, but they did get it. 53:03 >>DAVID: It did take a while to get it and Peter didn't get 53:05 it all at once, it took him a little bit, but they got it. 53:08 >>JEFFREY: So, this whole gospel going to the Gentiles, 53:09 the gospel... 53:10 >>TY: Always going to the Gentiles. 53:12 >>DAVID: And you see this, I'm so sorry, James, I just gotta 53:15 chime in. 53:16 I'm sorry. 53:17 >>JAMES: This is super. 53:18 >>DAVID: When we get to the New Testament, we see Jesus 53:21 again and again and again not respecting the prejudices, the 53:26 demarcation that had been established by first century 53:29 Judaism. 53:30 A Roman centurion, I've not seen faith like this in all of 53:32 Israel. 53:33 What? 53:34 You're speaking like that about a Gentile who's a Roman 53:35 who's a soldier who's a leader of soldiers? 53:37 Scandalous. 53:38 Samaritan woman at the well. 53:40 I that speak unto you, Cornelius. 53:42 I'm saying in the life of Jesus, even, the Syrophanician 53:45 woman. 53:46 Touching lepers. 53:47 Like, you never get a sense at all in the gospels that Jesus 53:51 was worried about social contamination. 53:55 With Gentiles, with blood, or ethnic, with lepers. 53:58 These are his people, these are his people. 54:03 >>JEFFREY: He went out of his way to sort of flaunt all that 54:04 stuff. 54:05 >>DAVID: Of course he did. 54:07 >>JAMES: I was just saying, that's why Matthew was very 54:09 deliberate, Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, she who had been the 54:15 wife of Urias, the Hittite, and what he's doing here is 54:20 he's coming to a grand conclusion in verse 21, she 54:22 shall bring forth a child and thou shalt call his name 54:25 Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins. 54:28 The point is, here are Jesus's people, here they are, in the 54:32 lineage, in the lineage, they're women and they're 54:35 people from other nations and these are the people Jesus 54:38 came to save, so Matthew's very deliberate about putting 54:40 this in the genealogy so that we can understand the big 54:43 picture and that plays into this woman and the identity of 54:46 this woman in verse 6. 54:48 >>DAVID: Which is why your point is such a great one. 54:50 In Revelation 12:1, is it 12:1? 54:52 >>JAMES: Yes. 54:53 >>DAVID: And 2, the woman that's bringing forth, that's 54:55 the people of God. 54:56 In Revelation 12:6, the woman is fleeing into the 54:58 wilderness. 54:59 That's the people of God. 55:00 In other words, some people say, well, no, that's Israel, 55:03 and this is the church, and introduce this unnecessary, 55:06 artificial distinction that the apostles would not have 55:08 recognized. 55:09 Jesus himself not only elected 12, chose 12, he said in Luke 55:13 chapter 12, verse 32, fear not little flock, for it is your 55:19 Father's good pleasure to give to you the kingdom. 55:21 He knew that this was the continuation of God's 55:24 intention for Israel all along. 55:27 The gospel's gonna go to the world. 55:28 >>JAMES: And Jesus was the ultimate fulfillment of all of 55:31 the covenant promises and he was a Jew. 55:33 And we are followers of him. 55:34 So, you can't make that... 55:36 >>JEFFREY: Hear ye, oh, Israel, and he goes into 55:39 commandments. 55:40 >>TY: Man, we're just, this is amazing. 55:42 I thought for sure that we were gonna get through more of 55:44 chapter 12, we didn't, but that's okay, because the things 55:48 that are coming to the surface here are just so vital and 55:52 important for us to understand. 55:55 We've seen, very clearly, just through verses 1-6, that God, 56:00 in Christ, has done and is doing something remarkable in 56:05 the world, reaching out to, embracing, and taking in the 56:09 whole world with his Messianic, covenant love, for 56:15 the whole human race, but we gotta get through this chapter 56:18 next session. 56:20 >>JAMES: Mhm. 56:20 And we will. 56:21 [Music] 56:24 And we will. |
Revised 2017-04-05