Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000039A
|
00:00 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:24 questions series and we've saved maybe the best for last because 00:29 we get to delve into the question, if we're saved by 00:32 grace, why are we judged by works? 00:35 And that means we get to talk about grace, which makes it 00:40 perhaps the best topic because there are gonna be a lot of good 00:43 news in this discussion, I believe. 00:46 We have a perspective that I think God has put in our hearts. 00:52 We've had lots of conversations over the years and have grown in 00:56 our understanding of the gospel to such a great degree that it 01:00 would be an understatement to say that we're excited about 01:03 this subject. 01:05 Yeah, there are just countless people out there who desperately 01:10 need, as we desperately need, to see subjects such as the 01:16 judgement in the light of the gospel, and so, there are lots 01:21 of people, I believe, who are living under the burden of 01:24 believing that the judgement somehow precludes grace or 01:28 somehow, it's all about grace, but then, oh, when it's all said 01:31 and done, I'm on my own and somehow, grace is no longer 01:38 anything that applies to my ongoing standing before God. 01:43 So, with that, we need to lay a foundation. 01:47 We don't wanna jump to the judgement during the time right 01:51 before we were starting, James said, in this conversation, we 01:55 need to just really focus on grace and we all just said, 01:58 amen, of course, that's where we need to focus. 02:00 But we can't avoid the fact that there is something called the 02:03 judgement, it will happen, the bible is explicit about it and 02:07 we will be judged by our works. 02:08 So, what about the foundation, where do we go with this? 02:11 >>JAMES: Ephesians 2. 02:13 >>DAVID: Well, we can go, I think there's probably 100 02:17 scriptures that you could start at, maybe a thousand scriptures 02:19 that you could start at. 02:20 >>JAMES: A million? 02:22 >>DAVID: But there's, I think, only one place, at least for me, 02:24 there's a single place to start in answering the question, if 02:28 we're saved by grace, why are we judged by works? 02:30 No one will be able to apprehend an accurate answer to that 02:34 question if they do not first understand what the bible 02:38 teaches the gospel is. 02:40 >>TY: Okay. 02:41 >>DAVID: So, that would be like somebody saying, okay, what is 02:44 algebra? 02:45 What is geometry? 02:47 And they're still working on their times tables. 02:50 Right, not to suggest that the gospel is simple, but that it's 02:54 foundational. 02:55 If we don't understand the answer to that question, trying 02:57 to get to the judgement, good luck. 02:59 There are lots of people who understand the judgement who 03:02 don't understand the gospel, and therefore, guess what they don't 03:06 actually understand? 03:07 >>TY: The judgement. 03:08 >>DAVID: So, there's a million texts. 03:11 I mean, Paul is a great place to start. 03:13 Let's go there. 03:14 >>JAMES: Ephesians 2, and I think even though we wanna start 03:16 right in verse 8, I think we should go back to the context of 03:19 the chapter, that chapter and start in verse 1, you, he is 03:25 quickened, who are dead in trespasses and sins. 03:27 That's where we all began, wherein time passed, you walked 03:29 according to the course of this world, according to the power, 03:32 prince of the power of the air, and the spirit that now works in 03:35 the children of disobedience, among whom also we had our 03:37 conversation in times past. 03:38 In the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of our 03:42 flesh, and we're of the mind, excuse me, and of the mind and 03:46 we're by nature the children of wrath even as others, but God, 03:49 who is rich in mercy, verse 4, for his great love wherewith he 03:53 loved us, even when we were dead in sins, quickened us together 03:57 with Christ by grace, we are saved, and raised us up together 04:01 and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus 04:04 that in the ages to come, he might show the exceeding riches 04:07 of his grace and his kindness toward us through Jesus Christ, 04:10 for by grace, you are saved through faith, and that not of 04:14 yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man 04:18 should boast, stop right there. 04:21 should boast, stop right there. 04:24 We're looking here at where we were, sinners, walking in the 04:26 desires of the flesh, lust of the flesh, walking according to 04:29 the world, and while we were sinners, while we were enemies 04:33 of God, he quickened us. 04:35 He made us alive and saved us by grace. 04:37 Now, that phrase, saved by grace, is emphasized twice, and 04:41 I believe one of the reasons why it's emphasized is because it is 04:44 the grace that is bestowed upon us, the grace that is appeared 04:47 unto all men. 04:48 It is that grace that allows us to even have life in order to 04:51 comprehend the grace that eternally saves us. 04:54 God has to do something for us in Christ Jesus before we even 04:58 know that he's done something for us, in order to give us life 05:02 so that we can grope after him and find him. 05:04 And he does that, and then, he goes on to say, I think in an 05:08 eternal sense, for you saved by grace, through faith, there's 05:11 the through faith part. 05:12 First one is just by grace, you're saved, but then it's 05:14 through faith, not of yourselves, it's the gift of 05:17 God, not of works lest any man should boast. 05:18 Now, there's the works part that's added to that. 05:20 I think verse 8 is describing the part that is eternal and 05:24 it's precluding works and suggesting faith, whereas the 05:28 first one is just saying, you've been saved by grace, God has 05:31 done something for you in Christ in order for you to have that 05:34 second part of that experience. 05:35 >>TY: The word gospel is never used in this passage, and yet, 05:42 beautifully, what Paul has described is the gospel. 05:46 The good news is described here, first of all, against the 05:50 backdrop of the problem. 05:53 The problem is that we're sinners in the first few verses, 05:55 in verse 1-3, but then, in verse 4, but God who is rich in mercy, 06:01 because of his great love with which he loved us, that's 06:04 powerful. 06:04 This is describing the motive of God. 06:06 What's moving God toward us as sinners? 06:10 Because of the great love with which he loved us, he reaches 06:14 out of himself to save us by his grace alone. 06:18 Now, this is a significant passage because it tells us that 06:24 we're saved wholly by grace and that works have no purchasing 06:29 power for our salvation. 06:32 So, if that's the case, we come back to our question, if we're 06:36 saved by grace, why would we be judged by works? 06:40 You see what I'm saying? 06:42 If we're saved by grace, why judged by works? 06:46 That's what we're inching toward, but I think we need to 06:48 further lay the foundation, we need to pour the foundation of 06:53 the gospel. 06:54 So, this is one gospel passage, how about you, Jeffrey, David, 06:57 anything else regarding the gospel itself? 07:00 >>DAVID: I'm gonna just stay in Ephesians 2, where are you 07:02 going? 07:03 >>JEFFREY: No, go ahead, I'm not going anywhere. 07:04 >>DAVID: I agree with everything James has said, of course, 07:06 everything Ty said, love that. 07:07 The problem that Paul is addressing here is not only sin, 07:14 but it's that which is the result of sin and that is being 07:18 dead. 07:19 He says, you he made alive who were dead in trespasses and 07:23 sins. 07:24 Verse 5, even when we were dead in trespasses. 07:26 So, if you wanted to, you could sort of look at it in a two part 07:32 formula, mankind faces two problems. 07:36 I face two problems, you face two problems, we face death, 07:39 right, and that which causes death, which is sin. 07:44 So, sin and death are the twin problems that are facing 07:48 humanity. 07:49 And the question then is, how will God rescue us? 07:54 Well, he certainly bestows grace, and he certainly has an 07:57 attitude of love toward us that causes, that's the motive. 08:00 For Paul, though, the centerpiece of Paul's gospel is 08:04 a historical event that took place in the man Jesus Christ 08:09 that consummated in his resurrection. 08:12 It was the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus that 08:17 is the historical event by which God shows the motive of his 08:23 heart and by which he demonstrates that he is saving 08:27 us by grace and that's exactly what Paul says in verse 6. 08:30 He says, he is raised us up together and made us sit in the 08:34 heavenly places in Christ Jesus. 08:36 That's resurrection language. 08:36 We were dead. 08:38 If you're dead, okay, I'm not really fond about this whole 08:42 death thing. 08:42 I'm not, I don't like this death thing. 08:44 Well, the bible doesn't just say that we will die in some 08:47 historical sense, in some medical sense, it says you are 08:50 dead. 08:52 You are dead in trespasses and sins, because the wages of sin 08:55 is death. 08:56 Well, if you're dead, you got a major problem. 08:59 A problem that only one thing can solve, and that is a 09:02 resurrection. 09:02 You need to be raised. 09:05 Well, how will we be raised? 09:07 And we will be raised because of this historical, wonderful event 09:11 in which God condescends to become a man, this is the 09:14 gospel, the holy history of the man Jesus Christ is the gospel, 09:18 it's the good news. 09:20 God becomes a man, he walks a mile in our moccasins, he lives 09:23 the life that we have not lived, he dies the death that we 09:25 deserved, he experiences the burial that should've been ours, 09:29 but there's not a period there, there's a comma, and he was 09:34 raised from the dead. 09:35 This historical event is, for Paul, for Jesus, for all the 09:40 biblical writers, the centerpiece of the gospel. 09:44 We've gotta be there, and in fact, Paul is so big and broad 09:50 and beautiful with his language that he says, we are sitting 09:53 with Christ in heavenly places, and Paul's thinking, we're 09:56 already there. 09:57 >>TY: It's a done deal. 09:58 >>DAVID: It's a done deal. 09:59 >>TY: Yeah, the whole course has been walked in the person of 10:03 Jesus Christ. 10:04 >>JEFFREY: What you were just quoting there, you were 10:07 basically kinda quoting 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul gives 10:10 the definition of, just for our viewers, I'd like to just look 10:14 at that real quick, in 1 Corinthians 15, verse 1, Paul 10:18 says, I'm declaring the gospel, and then he defines what that 10:23 gospel is in verse 3, for I delivered to you, first of all, 10:28 that which I also received, and then here's the definition, that 10:31 Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures. 10:36 Verse 4, that he was buried and that he rose again the third 10:40 day, according to the scriptures. 10:42 So, that's a very simple, foundational definition of what 10:46 the gospel is. 10:47 >>DAVID: And scholars believe that what's taking place there 10:50 in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 is that what you have is an actual 10:53 early, like, an early oral tradition of what the gospel is. 11:00 There's a doxological sense there and what that means is 11:03 that this, there's a rhyme, not a rhyme, but a meter, there's a 11:07 sense that Christ died for our sins according to the scripture, 11:09 that he was buried, that he rose again the third day according to 11:11 the scriptures. 11:12 In a pre-literary society, you're a Christian, you come to 11:15 my town, I'm a Christian, I go to your town, and you say, do 11:17 you believe in the Messiah, I say, I believe the Messiah. 11:19 Well, which Messiah? 11:21 Right, there's no internet, there's no Twitter, there's no 11:22 Facebook, there were lots of messiahs in the days of Jesus. 11:25 There were lots of promising, young Jewish upstarts that were 11:28 the messiah, so which one? 11:30 Oh, I'm a believer in Thudas the messiah. 11:32 I'm a believer in, you know, Judas the, there were different 11:35 figures that the bible speaks of. 11:37 Okay, which one? 11:37 No, no, no, I believe in Jesus. 11:39 Jesus of Nazareth? 11:40 Yeah, the one that died according to the scriptures that 11:44 was buried, that rose again the third day according to the 11:46 scripture. 11:46 Okay, same one. 11:47 That's the gospel. 11:48 >>JEFFREY: And I love the double emphasis on according to the 11:51 scriptures, according to the scriptures, that the gospel is 11:54 not merely pointing us to an event where God entering into 11:59 time and space, but that that event was a fulfillment of a 12:03 promise that was given, according to the scripture, 12:06 according to the scripture. 12:07 It was anticipated because God promised it and it took place. 12:12 So, I like that. 12:13 >>TY: I'd like to just add a few, a few breaststrokes to the 12:16 picture that you guys are painting because the language 12:19 that you've brought to the table is really meaningful in the 12:24 broader context of Paul's theology. 12:27 David, you said, in so many words, that Jesus in himself, 12:33 represents a holy history, that there's a historic act that 12:39 occurred in the person of Jesus Christ, and his life, death, 12:45 burial, and resurrection and ascension constitutes the 12:48 gospel. 12:49 How about this language from Paul in Romans chapter 3, where 12:53 he says, in verses 23 and 24, for all have sinned and fall 12:58 short of the glory of God, being justified freely by his grace 13:03 through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 13:07 This is very fascinating to me. 13:09 Redemption is described here as an accomplished reality in 13:15 Christ Jesus. 13:16 It's a done deal in him. 13:19 This is what we might refer to as the objective achievement of 13:25 Christ in himself, apart from the participation of any human 13:29 being. 13:30 And this is what Paul has in mind when he says, we're saved 13:33 by grace, through faith, not of works, we can't contribute 13:38 anything to the achievements of Christ. 13:41 The Christ even itself is basically the remaking, the 13:47 redoing, the retroversion of the human experience and he redeems 13:52 the whole thing. 13:53 He completely reestablishes a new humanity and there it is, 13:59 it's done and then you went further, David, you said, not 14:03 only did he live and die and was buried and resurrected, he 14:08 ascended and then Paul does something very fascinating in 14:11 Ephesians 2, he says, okay, Jesus is up there, he's ascended 14:15 and he says, we're seated with him in heavenly places in Christ 14:21 Jesus and what Paul means by this is that our complete human 14:28 representative is right there in the throne room of the universe, 14:33 so reason it through this way, even if, hypothetically, this 14:37 isn't the case, but hypothetically, even if all of 14:39 us and every human being said, no to the salvation that is in 14:44 Christ Jesus, that salvation is still in Christ Jesus. 14:50 It's an accomplished fact in Christ and faith is the 14:55 mechanism by which we identify with the salvation that is in 15:00 Christ Jesus, or said another way, faith doesn't manufacture 15:05 facts, faith lays hold of the facts of the gospel that are 15:10 present in Jesus Christ. 15:13 >>DAVID: There is a simple, and I'll just, this'll be so quick, 15:16 there is a reason, a very simple, practical, pragmatic, 15:20 utilitarian reason why we cannot make any contribution to the 15:25 accomplished fact of the life, death, burial, and resurrection 15:30 of Jesus. 15:31 It happened a long time ago. 15:32 It's historic. 15:35 How, pray tell, would you add something to that? 15:37 It's in the books. 15:38 You know, as the filmmakers would say, you know, it's in the 15:40 can. 15:41 You know, it's wrapped up, it's done, right? 15:42 How are you gonna add something to that. 15:44 >>JAMES: Guys, I love this because this is laying a deep, 15:47 solid foundation in the fact that we are saved by grace and 15:51 if we can lay this foundation as deep as possible, I mean, we can 15:54 throw some more layers on this, we can lay this as deep as 15:57 possible, it will be the way that we can best understand 16:01 being judged by works. 16:02 Because what we have to do is we have to completely dismiss the 16:06 idea that our works save us and if we can establish the fact 16:09 that we're saved by grace, that idea, before we even start, 16:12 it'll be gone. 16:14 >>DAVID: I kinda cut you off, there Jeffrey, I didn't mean to. 16:16 I just really didn't wanna lose that point about the basic 16:19 historical nature of an event. 16:22 It's done. 16:23 That happened. 16:24 How you gonna add something to that? 16:26 >>JAMES: But now it's your turn, Jeffrey, now we're gonna let you 16:29 have this time. 16:30 >>JEFFREY: I forgot what I was gonna say. 16:31 I forgot what I was saying, so. 16:34 >>TY: Well, since you forgot what you were gonna say, since 16:39 you forgot what you were gonna say, I'll just add one feature 16:43 because we're talking here about salvation and judgement. 16:46 Jesus lived and he died, he was resurrected and ascended. 16:52 Now, watch this, in chapter 12 of the gospel of John, Jesus, 16:57 referring to his death on the cross, watch this, says, he's on 17:02 the cross, he's going, he's dying on the cross, and he says, 17:05 now is the judgement of this world. 17:10 So, not only was the life of Jesus a perfected 17:17 reestablishment, recreation of the human being, his death on 17:23 the cross exhausted the judgement. 17:27 There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for you or me to 17:32 undergo and to 17:34 face the judgement on the terms of our sin. 17:38 We can actually enter into the judgement, point to Calvary and 17:42 identify by faith with the fact that the judgement happened in 17:47 Christ. 17:48 Right now, at Calvary, the judgement of this world, boom, 17:52 done deal. 17:53 >>JAMES: Ty, we have to look at one verse before we close, I 17:54 know we need to close this section, but just to back up to 17:57 the scripture on that, okay, 2 Corinthians chapter 5. 18:01 2 Corinthians chapter 5, and verse 14 is where it begins, but 18:06 I think, you can go further on this, but we'll just stop with 18:08 verse 14, we can always go into this a little bit more, but 18:11 notice what it says here, and I'm just gonna read it in the 18:13 context of the New King James and other translations. 18:17 This is how it reads. 18:18 For the love of Christ constrains us, which means, 18:23 motivates us, because we thus judge that if one died for all, 18:27 then all died. 18:29 In other words, what you just said, Jesus exhausted the 18:32 judgement, the punishment that should've come, not just to us 18:35 who are believers, but to the entire world, and if he died for 18:38 the entire world, then that judgement was exhausted in him. 18:42 Everyone died that death. 18:45 Everyone's punishment for sin, everyone's reward, everyone's 18:49 wages of sin was brought together and paid for in Jesus 18:53 Christ. 18:53 >>TY: That's astounding. 18:55 But it does raise the question, then why is there a judgement at 18:58 all? 18:59 And that's where we need to begin probing forward in 19:01 scripture when we come back after the break. 19:04 scripture when we come back after the break. 19:11 >>This is the story of Niyima, who took a bus to the doctor and 19:17 found a piece of paper with words of hope about Jesus, which 19:22 was left by a church member who unpacked a box that came from a 19:26 truck which drove in from Durban where a ship was docked that 19:31 sailed from Seattle, loaded with containers stacked high with 19:35 millions of tracts, trucked in from the Light Bearers 19:39 Publishing House, where more than 600 million pieces of 19:43 gospel literature have been printed in 42 languages. 19:47 Here's the amazing thing, Light Bearers distributes this 19:51 literature free of charge all over the world, and each piece 19:56 costs only 5 pennies to print, transport, and deliver. 20:02 Every day, millions of people buy a $5 cup of coffee, $5 a 20:07 cup, 5 days a week. 20:09 It adds up fast. 20:11 But at just 5 cents a piece, that same $25 can also ship 500 20:17 pieces of literature and give hope to people like Niyima, who 20:24 shared that paper with a classmate, who gave it to her 20:27 cousin, who shared it with his boss, who passed it to her 20:31 grandmother, who left it on another bus, where it will be 20:36 found by someone else. 20:39 And the story continues. 20:42 Five cents doesn't buy a lot these days, but in other parts 20:46 of the world, your nickel could change someone's life. 20:49 Your gift of $25 a month sends out 6,000 pieces of gospel 20:55 literature each year. 20:57 Fifty dollars sends out 12,000, and $100 a month sends out 21:02 24,000 messages of hope every year, all over the world. 21:09 Empower Light Bearers to continue the story. 21:12 Send your gift through lightbearers.org, or by calling 21:16 877-585-1111. 21:20 Who knew 5 little pennies could do so much? 21:23 [Music] 21:28 [Music] 21:29 ndation in the gospel 21:32 and we've basically come to the conclusion that something 21:36 monumental was achieved in the person of Jesus Christ. 21:39 What was achieved in the person of Jesus Christ? 21:42 Everything pertaining to our salvation. 21:45 There's nothing that we can contribute to that achievement. 21:50 Jesus walked the entire gauntlet for us, he endured judgement on 21:56 our behalf. 21:57 He achieved perfection in his humanity and he died for us, he 22:04 rose again, he ascended to heaven. 22:06 And it's this kind of language that Paul employs when he says 22:11 things like Galatians 2:20, I am crucified with Christ, 22:17 nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me and the 22:20 life which I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who 22:24 died for me and rose again. 22:26 Notice the language. 22:27 >>JEFFREY: That's the first verse I memorized when I became 22:28 a Christian. 22:28 >>TY: Is it? 22:29 >>JAMES: So, did he say it right? 22:30 >>DAVID: No, he didn't, not the end, but that's okay. 22:32 >>JEFFREY: It's a beautiful passage. 22:34 Keep going. 22:35 [inaudible chatter] 22:39 >>DAVID: No, that is correct. 22:41 >>TY: Okay, so the part that I'm trying to focus on here is I am 22:44 crucified with Christ, when? 22:45 Well, in the Christ event itself. 22:49 The historic event that you referred to, back there at 22:52 Calvary, this is a representative death. 22:55 This is a death that is being engaged in by the ambassador of 23:01 heaven coming down to earth and representing heaven on our 23:06 behalf and here we have before us a monumental achievement in 23:11 Jesus Christ that includes the judgement, according to John 23:16 chapter 12 and verses 31 and 32. 23:19 So, with that foundation laid, then James took us to 2 23:22 Corinthians chapter 5, and James, you went to verses 14 and 23:26 15. 23:26 >>JAMES: Just 14. 23:27 >>TY: Yeah, 14 and onward, but you guys look, go back up to 23:30 verses 10 and 11. 23:31 The context here to the gospel he's about to break down is the 23:37 fact that there is a judgment, verses 10 and 11, for we must 23:42 all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one 23:46 may receive the things done in the body, according to what he 23:50 has done, whether good or bad, knowing therefore the terror of 23:54 the Lord, we persuade men, but we are well known to God, but we 24:01 are well known to God, and I also trust we are well known in 24:06 your consciences. 24:07 What's he saying here? 24:09 He's essentially saying, yes, we're all judgment bound, 24:12 everybody's gonna stand before the judgement seat of Christ, 24:16 and it's in that context that he says, we're compelled by the 24:19 love of Christ. 24:20 Jesus moves us in love toward him because his love toward us 24:28 was a representative death that included all human beings, he 24:32 goes onto say that God is reconciled to us not counting 24:36 our trespasses against us by virtue of the achievements of 24:40 Christ. 24:41 >>JAMES: Ty, this is so powerful. 24:42 These texts are so powerful, I've never seen them before in 24:45 the context of the judgement. 24:47 This is the first time I've noticed, I mean, I know those 24:49 verses are there, I've read this many times, but I've noticed 24:52 that these verses that follow are in the context of the 24:54 judgement, in other words, in a nutshell, God is saying to us, 24:57 listen, there is gonna be a judgement, and because there's 24:59 gonna be a judgement, you need to know the gospel and you need 25:01 to know Jesus and you need to know that God has reconciled to 25:04 you and you need to know that he doesn't regard you according to 25:07 the flesh, and you need to know that you have a whole new 25:09 identity, a new creature, in Christ and you need to claim 25:12 that. 25:12 That's yours. 25:14 He became sin for us, he became sin for us, so if you wanna be 25:19 able to stand against, I'm gonna say it this way, Revelation 25:22 12:10, against the accusations of the devil, the accuser, you 25:26 need Jesus, what he's done for you. 25:28 >>JEFFREY: But that's another point there is that we must all 25:30 appear before the judgement seat of Christ and the reason that is 25:34 an important point is because when people normally think of 25:37 the judgement, they think that bad people are gonna be in the 25:40 judgement, right? 25:41 It's always in the negative. 25:42 We must all appear, even believers, even the saved, 25:46 excuse me, which preempts something that will come up here 25:49 sooner, I hope, that the judgement is not necessarily 25:54 bad. 25:55 It's not in a negative connotation. 25:56 The judgement has a bigger purpose that the lost and the 26:00 saved are affected by. 26:05 >>TY: Unpack that, no, say more. 26:06 >>JAMES: Unpack it, unpack that bag, that suitcase. 26:11 >>JAMES: Unpack it, unpack that bag, that suitcase. 26:12 the saved and 26:14 the lost, will be in the judgement, right? 26:17 That totally removes the idea that it's, just think about the 26:22 way we use the language, don't judge me. 26:24 When have you ever thought about that phrase with a positive 26:29 connotation. 26:30 >>JAMES: Old Testament David's experience, judge me, Lord, 26:32 judge me, he says it over and over again. 26:33 >>JEFFREY: You just blew my whole point. 26:35 >>JAMES: Oh, sorry. 26:36 >>JEFFREY: The whole point was to create a tension. 26:38 [Inaudible chatter] 26:43 >>JEFFREY: But that's exactly the point, that's exactly the 26:45 point. 26:46 Who, have you ever heard anybody say, Lord, please judge me? 26:52 No. 26:54 Because we think of that in the negative connotation and it's a 26:57 very narrow and incomplete picture of the judgement. 27:02 Why would a prophet say, Lord, please judge me? 27:04 >>TY: Because that prophet is expecting a positive outcome to 27:08 the judgement, not expecting a negative outcome. 27:10 >>JEFFREY: That's exactly what I was trying to say. 27:13 >>DAVID: On what basis would the Old Testament prophets such as, 27:17 or Old Testament prophets and writers such as David have 27:21 expected a positive outcome? 27:23 >>JAMES: On the basis of knowing Christ, for sure, or God. 27:26 >>DAVID: Right, so talking about David, so we can't 27:27 anachronistically read back, you know, David didn't have the 27:31 writings of Paul, he didn't yet see the life, death, and 27:34 resurrection of Jesus. 27:35 So, I'm asking the question, how would David have known? 27:38 >>TY: With a forward reaching faith in Messiah, he'd 27:43 definitely have the sacrificial 27:44 >>DAVID: How would he have known the story of judgement? 27:45 >>TY: Sacrificial service, sanctuary service, we have a 27:50 step by step process that is outlined that, again, outlines 27:55 the path that Jesus actually traversed on our behalf. 27:59 >>DAVID: James? 28:00 >>JAMES: Psalms 73, I was envious at the wicked. 28:07 >>DAVID: Yeah, that's right. 28:08 >>JAMES: They were not slippery, then I went into the what? 28:12 >>DAVID: Sanctuary. 28:13 >>JAMES: And saw their end. 28:14 How foolish was I and ignorant? 28:15 >>DAVID: Yeah, that's right. 28:17 >>JEFFREY: So, the judgement is hope that God would bring an end 28:19 to evil. 28:20 >>TY: I don't think we should pass by that scripture, just 28:21 saying that in passing. 28:23 What scripture, where is that? 28:24 >>JAMES: Psalm 73. 28:28 Well, maybe it's 77, I don't know, I thought it was 73 28:30 >>TY: David, is that what you were getting at when you were 28:32 asking the question, on what basis would David have expected 28:38 a positive outcome to the judgement? 28:41 >>DAVID: Yeah, that's exactly the question that I was getting 28:42 at. 28:43 It's saying 28:44 >>JAMES: And this is really powerful. 28:46 Go ahead. 28:47 >>DAVID: No, I was just gonna say, how would David have known? 28:49 We go from Paul and John and Jesus, and then, we're like, 28:53 see, David said, judge me, oh, Lord, because he anticipated 28:56 that the outcome would be positive and not negative. 28:58 So, we say, well, how did he know that? 28:59 That's what I'm asking. 29:00 >>JAMES: What's so powerful about this is, notice what he 29:02 says here. 29:02 >>TY: Where are you at? 29:04 >>JAMES: Psalm 73:1 and 2, I'm just gonna read 1 and 2 and then 29:05 we can paraphrase the rest if you want, maybe not, but here's 29:08 what he says, truly God is good to Israel, even to such of you 29:11 who are of a clean heart. 29:12 God is good to the good guys, but as for me, verse 2, my feet 29:17 were almost gone, my steps had well-nigh slipped. 29:20 So, he's here, at least talking about some kind of experience 29:25 where he's not a good guy, where he's struggled, he's 29:28 backslidden, my feet have slipped, I've backslidden. 29:30 So, God is, and then, he's going through all of these pictures of 29:36 the way that it seems like the wicked are prospering, and then 29:39 he goes into the sanctuary and he sees their end. 29:42 >>JEFFREY: That's in verse 17. 29:43 >>JAMES: Yes, verse 17 is where, until I went into the sanctuary 29:45 and then I understood their end. 29:47 Surely, God has set them in slippery places. 29:49 And I think what David is saying here in the context is, you know 29:52 what, I'm a believer in God, but I'm a backslider. 29:56 The good guys are gonna make it, but the backsliders aren't. 30:00 Maybe I should hang out with the wicked because it looks like 30:02 they're having a good time in this planet, this earth, things 30:05 are going well for them. 30:06 >>DAVID: He even says in verse 4 that, there are no pangs in 30:09 their death. 30:10 >>JAMES: Yes, yes. 30:11 >>DAVID: That's his whole point. 30:13 He says, verse 5, they're not in trouble like other men. 30:16 >>JAMES: Verse 12, they prosper the world, they increase in 30:19 riches, I cleanse my heart in vain, I've washed my hands in 30:22 innocence, I can't do this, I can't do this anymore. 30:25 Then, I go into the sanctuary and what do I see? 30:26 I see that the end of the wicked is lost, but there's, for those 30:30 who believe in something more than me washing my hands of 30:34 innocence and me trying to keep up the good works to make it to 30:37 heaven, there's something there in the sanctuary that I see that 30:40 gives me hope, and that sanctuary is, like you said, 30:43 David, that is this lamb that trod the wine press alone and 30:47 with the people, there was none with him. 30:49 >>TY: Well, verse 28, it seems like he's come full circle and 30:54 he's gotten over his bout with depression, and in verse 28, he 30:58 says, but it is good for me to draw near to God. 31:03 I have put my trust in the Lord God that I may declare all your 31:09 works, isn't that something? 31:10 So, I guess David was grappling, but then, he realized, wait a 31:16 minute, it is good for me to draw near to God and put my 31:21 trust in him because the end of the wicked is going to be that 31:25 they're going to face a judgement alone without God as 31:33 their advocate in that judgement. 31:35 >>JAMES: And also, in the context, I've backslidden. 31:38 >>TY: So, we know he's a sinner. 31:40 >>JAMES: I can't do this, so it's good for me to trust in his 31:43 works, in his righteousness, which is what the sanctuary 31:47 teaches. 31:48 It's beautiful, beautiful picture. 31:49 Righteous by faith right here. 31:51 >>TY: Okay, so are there other passages of scripture that put 31:57 the judgement in a positive light? 32:00 >>JAMES: Yes. 32:02 Before we go there, Romans 14, I just wanna touch on this, Romans 32:05 14 is so powerful because God, Paul is dealing with a church 32:08 that is divided between Gentiles and Jews and they are just, 32:12 they're all in the faith, he says in verse 1 of Romans 14, 32:15 but they are, and these are the words he uses, they're judging 32:17 one another and they're despising each other and in that 32:23 context, and they've got these little variations of belief, of 32:27 depth of experience, for example, I think the issue here, 32:31 of course, if you look at the context is, is that the converts 32:35 from Judaism are dealing with these extra things that they're 32:38 doing that makes them feel like they're more righteous than the 32:40 Gentiles. 32:41 The ceremonial laws, et cetera, and the Gentiles are just like, 32:43 full of faith. 32:44 Paul actually describes the Jews as weak in faith and the 32:47 Gentiles, full of faith, they just have full trust in Christ 32:50 and they don't have to do any of these things because it was 32:52 easier for them to discard things that they never did 32:55 practice for hundreds and hundreds of years. 32:57 But the principle is powerful because he brings it to this 33:00 head in verses 10 through 12, he says 33:03 >>TY: So, you were just in verse 1. 33:05 >>JAMES: Right, I was just explaining and summarizing the 33:07 context of it, and then, in verses 10-12, this is the, this 33:10 is where it comes to the punchline, he says, but why do 33:12 you judge your brother, why do you set not your brother, for we 33:15 shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. 33:19 For, as it is written, for I live, says the Lord, every knee 33:21 shall bow to me, every tongue shall confess to God. 33:23 So, then every one of us shall give an account of himself to 33:26 God, let us therefore, because of the judgement, let us 33:30 therefore, verse 13, not judge one another anymore. 33:32 You are off the hook, brother, you are off the hook, sister. 33:35 You no longer have to take up the burden of judging or 33:39 criticizing your brothers or your sisters, even with these 33:42 little various, you are off the hook. 33:44 God has a judgment, we're all gonna stand before the judgement 33:47 seat of Christ, and he is going to call everyone into account. 33:50 You don't need to sit in the judgement, but you should do 33:53 this, rather, he says, verse 13 again, latter half, rather let 34:00 no man put a stumbling block or on occasion fall in his 34:03 brother's way. 34:04 That's what you need to be about, that's what you need to 34:05 be about. 34:06 Not judging people, but doing everything you can to lift them 34:10 up, to remove the stumbling blocks. 34:11 >>TY: This is interesting, then, one of the good features of 34:15 believing in the judgement is that we can be free from any 34:19 need to judge. 34:20 >>DAVID: That's good. 34:21 >>TY: We can just say, there is a judgement and I don't 34:29 >>JAMES: No one's getting away with anything. 34:30 >>TY: Yeah, I don't need to sit in judgement on you or anybody 34:34 else, that's not my department, that's not... 34:37 >>DAVID: That's not my department. 34:39 >>JEFFREY: That takes a lot of energy to sit in judgement of 34:42 everybody all the time. 34:43 >>TY: It's exhausting. 34:44 >>JAMES: And he's talking here about individual judgement. 34:47 We understand that there's a church that has accountability 34:51 that it calls its members to, we understand all of that and I 34:53 don't wanna preclude that, I just wanna say that this right 34:56 here is where we, as individuals, are let off the 35:00 hook. 35:01 And this is super good news. 35:02 >>JEFFREY: There's another passage, Ty, that I wanna read. 35:04 >>TY: Okay. 35:05 >>JEFFREY: Daniel chapter 7, there's this prophetic sweep, 35:11 obviously, we don't have the time to unpack it all. 35:13 >>TY: We have a few minutes. 35:14 Make sure you give the background because people won't 35:17 know where we're coming from. 35:18 >>JEFFREY: In Daniel 7, beginning in verse 17 and 20, 35:22 those are the verses I will not read, it's mentioned different 35:26 symbolic nations and kingdoms that arise on the scene of world 35:32 history, but when you get down to verse 21, it says, I was 35:37 watching, and the same horn was making war against the saints 35:41 and prevailing against them. 35:44 So, there's some kind of a prophetic insight here that the 35:49 saints, which is the people of God, would be victims of war, 35:54 persecution, some form of persecution, and then, in verse 35:57 22, the answer to that or the hope to that is that the ancient 36:02 of days comes into the picture and it says, and judgement was 36:06 made in favor of the saints, in my New King James bible, it 36:10 says, in favor of the saints of the most high. 36:13 And the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom. 36:17 So, judgement was given in favor of the saints of the most high. 36:21 That goes back to my original point. 36:23 2 Corinthians 5:10, all must appear before the judgement seat 36:26 of Christ, both the righteous and the wicked. 36:28 So, here's the thing, depending on the perspective that you look 36:32 at the judgement will determine if it's a positive or a negative 36:36 thing. 36:37 >>TY: So, it could be negative. 36:38 >>JEFFREY: Of course. 36:39 If you're the accused, if you're the guilty, are you looking 36:44 forward to that appointment that little slip you got in the mail 36:47 or whatever that you have to appear before the judge? 36:49 But what if you were the plaintiff, what if you were the 36:51 one crying out for somebody to intervene in a situation? 36:56 What if you were the one appealing to a higher power or 37:01 to a higher authority and forwarding a complaint that you 37:05 have been wronged, you following what I'm saying? 37:07 In that context, the judgement, that day in court is the day you 37:14 look forward to because it involves your vindication, 37:17 right? 37:18 So, I think, in that sense, that's another reason why, 37:22 another example where the bible presents judgement in a positive 37:26 note, in favor of, there's people that the judgement will 37:32 be in favor of. 37:33 So, it just depends on which angle you're looking from, 37:37 really. 37:38 >>DAVID: The thing that I like about Daniel 7 here and the way 37:44 that I love that it ties in with what James was saying about 37:46 Romans 14, I think that's good. 37:47 Romans 14, you don't have to carry the burden any longer of 37:52 judging others because that is not your department. 37:56 The actual context of Daniel chapter 7, which you addressed 38:01 just briefly is that there is a power that presumes to take that 38:06 very seat. 38:07 >>JAMES: That's exactly where I wanted to go. 38:08 >>DAVID: And God looks down and says, okay, here's a power, it's 38:11 a religious power, in the historical context, sitting in 38:14 the place of God. 38:16 Ostensibly, my power, this is the way that this power is 38:20 posturing itself, this power is the church, it's the medieval 38:22 church, and God is looking down and saying, well, wait a minute, 38:26 the problem I have with their judgement is that it's totally 38:29 out of harmony with my own judgement. 38:31 In fact, I'm going to stand in judgement of the power that is 38:35 judging inaccurately and falsely the saints of God. 38:39 >>JEFFREY: In judgement of their judgement. 38:40 >>DAVID: That's exactly right. 38:42 So, it's in that sense that judgement is given in favor of 38:46 the saints. 38:47 It's as if God shows up, there's a kangaroo court that's going 38:49 on, that's the term. 38:50 There's a kangaroo court, it's not a real, it's a joke, it's a 38:54 joke, it's a sham, and God shows up and says, no, no, no, no, no, 38:57 let's do a real judgement here, and when that real judgement is 39:00 done, the judgement by this ostensibly, allegedly, religious 39:07 power is shown to be, in fact, at diametrical odds with the 39:12 judgement of God, which is in favor of the ones who are being 39:14 persecuted by the church itself. 39:16 >>JAMES: David, David, David, think about this, this is so 39:19 powerful. 39:21 The point you just brought up is so powerful, let's make it even 39:22 more, just take it one step further. 39:24 That system presumed to judge people and put them to the 39:29 flames who were establishing themselves and others on being 39:34 saved by grace, through faith, and not of works, lest any man 39:39 should boast. 39:40 I mean, it's so, we've come full circle now. 39:42 We've come from Ephesians all the way around through the 39:45 prophetic chapter of getting all the way back around to that same 39:48 platform, prophetic platform that we, I'm just gonna confess 39:52 to this, we, in our own church, have somehow maybe missed, just 39:58 a little bit, in our focus, and we've gotta bring it back to 40:00 this focus. 40:01 >>TY: Or a lot-a bit. 40:02 >>DAVID: We gotta bring it back a lot-a bit. 40:03 Let me just close with this, in Daniel chapter 9, the ancient of 40:07 days is there, here comes the son of man, Daniel chapter 7, 40:09 excuse me, here comes the son of man in, this whole judgement 40:12 thing is going on. 40:14 Paul understood this, clearly Paul understood Daniel chapter 40:17 7. 40:18 There's huge indications that both Paul and Jesus knew and 40:21 knew well the prophecies of Daniel, the book of Daniel, he 40:24 invited us to do the same. 40:25 But here's what I love, in two passages that we've already 40:28 looked at, 2 Corinthians chapter 5 verse 10, and Romans chapter 40:30 14 verse 10, the judgement seat of Christ. 40:37 Who wouldn't be comfortable? 40:39 I mean, the Jesus that I read in the New Testament, I'll take him 40:43 as a judge. 40:45 The judgement seat of Christ. 40:47 I'll take that. 40:49 >>JAMES: And every time Christ had to sit with sinners and all 40:51 of these outcasts and he had to receive the criticism, he said, 40:55 no, no, no, I've got to do this because I'm establishing the 40:58 judgement seat of Christ. 41:00 I love it, that's a beautiful picture. 41:02 >>TY: Well, we have to take a break and we have one more 41:04 segment though that we can delve into this further, but this is 41:08 good news, it's so gratifying to talk about the judgement and to 41:15 be excited about it because it's good news and not bad news. 41:20 [Music] 41:24 [Music] 41:25 he Light Bearers Story is a short award-winning 41:28 video that gives an inside look at one of the boldest and most 41:31 effective missionary ventures of our time. 41:34 You will see how multiple millions of gospel publications 41:37 are flooding the nations free of charge by surprisingly simple 41:40 means. 41:42 For your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, call 41:44 877-585-1111, or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell 41:52 Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 41:56 Once again, for your free copy of the Light Bearers Story, call 42:00 877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers 37457 Jasper Lowell 42:08 Road, Jasper, Oregon 97438. 42:12 Simply ask for the Light Bearers Story. 42:14 [Music] 42:19 [Music] 42:20 s is fantastic, I love this. 42:22 We have saturated, saturated, saturated the judgement with 42:25 grace. 42:26 We have laid a foundation that makes the judgement good news, 42:29 not bad news. 42:30 And I think we need to continue with that, but I think it's 42:32 really important for us, if we're going to nail this in 42:35 relation to our question, we've got to understand, and our 42:38 viewers have to understand what works have to do with the 42:42 judgement. 42:43 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, we've talked about judgement and now we need 42:46 to bring in what the question poses. 42:48 >>JAMES: The first verses we began with were in Ephesians 2, 42:51 you remember that? 42:52 And we went from Ephesians 2, verses 1, all the way through 42:54 verse 9, but we didn't read verse 10, and there was a reason 42:57 for that because I was saving verse 10, I thought it would be 43:00 important for us to go back at this point to Ephesians 2 and 43:04 look now in the context at verse 10. 43:07 So, I'm gonna read it just from verse 8, just from verse 8, not 43:10 from the beginning, verse 8 says, for by grace you are saved 43:14 through faith and that, not of yourselves, it is the gift of 43:17 God, we've nailed that, not of works lest any man should boast. 43:20 Okay, that's where we stopped. 43:21 Now notice verse 10, this is powerful. 43:23 For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto 43:28 good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in 43:33 them. 43:34 Isn't that powerful? 43:35 >>TY: So, works are mentioned twice in the passage. 43:38 >>JAMES: Yes. 43:39 >>TY: In verse 9, it says that we're not saved of or by good 43:42 works, and verse 10 says we are saved for good works. 43:46 >>JEFFREY: And to put it another way, grace is mentioned first 43:51 and works are mentioned afterwards, so there's a 43:55 sequence there that authentic grace, genuine grace will 43:59 somehow produce works. 44:02 >>TY: So, what comes first, salvation or works, according to 44:06 this passage? 44:07 >>DAVID: Salvation, clearly. 44:09 >>TY: Salvation comes first, and good works arise out of that 44:15 salvation. 44:16 >>JEFFREY: Can I read another passage on that? 44:18 >>DAVID: Before you leave there, I'll just make a comment on 44:21 that, part of the reason, again, that works have to follow 44:24 salvation is the simple historical reason that our 44:29 salvation was worked out in Christ, in his life, death, 44:32 resurrection, and ascension, 2000 years ago. 44:36 So, how can, it has to be that and then this because this is 44:39 2014 and that was AD 31. 44:40 >>TY: That's present in verse 10 when it says, it says, for we 44:45 are his workmanship, here's the language, created in Christ 44:49 Jesus, and then, which God beforehand prepared that we 44:54 should walk in them. 44:55 So, this is complex language for most of us to understand. 45:00 What could Paul possibly mean when he says that our works were 45:05 prepared for us beforehand? 45:07 I mean, if I haven't done them yet, how are they mine and how 45:10 are they prepared before I even do them? 45:13 He's saying that they're prepared beforehand in Christ, 45:17 and I just catch up to them. 45:18 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, in the sense Christ lived the perfect life 45:20 and by faith, in our union with Christ, all of those, his life 45:25 and the ripple effects of his life become manifest in our own 45:29 lives. 45:30 >>JAMES: Now, there's something very significant that all of you 45:32 are saying here and I just wanna bring it together for the 45:35 viewers, and that is is that, it is obvious, from everything you 45:39 said and everything we've read that works are part of the 45:43 picture of our salvation. 45:46 In other words, we're saved by grace. 45:47 The question was, if we're saved by grace, right, why are we 45:52 judged by works? 45:54 And I would like to answer that question by saying, we are 45:56 judged by works to see if we're saved by grace. 46:02 >>TY: That's deep. 46:03 >>JEFFREY: The one reveals the other. 46:04 >>TY: I think you should say that again. 46:06 >>JAMES: We are judged by works to see if we're saved by grace, 46:08 because according to Ephesians chapter 2, if we are saved by 46:12 grace, through faith, not of ourselves, it's the gift of God, 46:15 not of works, lest any man should boast, it will bring 46:17 forth works, so we're judged by works to see if we're saved by 46:22 grace. 46:23 Are we truly trusting completely in the merits of Christ? 46:25 Now, the reason I bring that up is because there are 3 verses in 46:28 Matthew 7, verses 21, 22, and 23, that depict a group of 46:33 people who Jesus say will come to him in the end of time and 46:36 they will basically say, Lord, open up the kingdom of heaven to 46:39 us because we have done this, that, and the other, we have 46:43 done all of these works, and Jesus is going to say, I didn't 46:46 know you. 46:48 >>TY: You don't get in here on the basis of this, that, and 46:49 what you've done. 46:50 >>JEFFREY: Can I read the parallel passage on this, guys? 46:53 >>JAMES: In other words, if we're saved by grace, and if it 46:56 is a gift and it's not of works, our works will be such that our 47:02 dependence will be completely upon the grace of Jesus Christ, 47:05 and they will not be the reason why we enter heaven, they will 47:08 be the product of our salvation, not the means of our salvation. 47:13 >>TY: Where are you at? 47:14 >>JEFFREY: Titus chapter 2, everything you just said, but it 47:16 parallels Ephesians chapter 2, Titus 2, verse 11, for by grace, 47:22 for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all 47:26 men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lust, we 47:31 should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this 47:33 present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious 47:37 appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave 47:41 himself for us that he might redeem us from every lawless 47:47 deed and purify for himself his own special people, zealous for 47:53 good works. 47:55 So, again, just the link, the sequencer, grace appears and it 48:00 produces good works. 48:02 It's the same concept there. 48:04 >>JAMES: Now, let's stay right there just for a second and go 48:06 into chapter 3, because this is a continuum. 48:08 There's no chapter to this in the original language. 48:11 So, notice chapter 3, and I'm just gonna jump because I know 48:14 we have a couple other things we need to look at, but look at 48:16 this, verse 4, but after that, the kindness and love of God our 48:20 Savior toward man appeared, we've touched on that in 48:23 Ephesians, not by works of righteousness, which we have 48:25 done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, past tense, 48:30 by the washing and regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, 48:35 which he shed upon us abundantly through our Lord Jesus Christ 48:38 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs 48:41 according to the hope of eternal life, this, verse 8, is a 48:45 faithful saint, and these things I will but thou affirm 48:49 constantly. 48:50 That and that word in the Greek means, so that, they which have 48:53 believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. 48:55 These things are good and profitable unto man. 48:57 Paul is saying here that we need to, and I'm gonna say it here 49:02 again, we need to affirm constantly the fact that we are 49:08 saved by grace, shed abundantly upon us by our Lord Jesus 49:11 Christ, because it we affirm that constantly, we will 49:15 maintain good works. 49:16 >>TY: Isn't that something? 49:18 So, emphasizing grace is the means by which good works are 49:25 generated. 49:27 >>DAVID: The funny thing is, though, is that there is a whole 49:29 cadre of well-meaning but ultimately misguided people 49:32 inside of the church that think the exact opposite. 49:35 >>TY: What's the opposite? 49:36 Articulate the opposite. 49:37 >>DAVID: Well, that if you emphasize grace, you will lead 49:40 people to dismiss, to carelessness, to recklessness, 49:44 to dismiss the claims of God's law, yeah, that's right, and 49:49 yet, Paul would say, and all the bible writers would say, oh 49:54 contraire mon friar. 49:55 Quite the opposite. 49:56 >>JEFFREY: I'm not sure they would've said that, but. 49:58 >>TY: I don't even know what that means. 50:00 I hear you say that, I don't know what that means and where 50:02 it comes from. 50:03 >>DAVID: Oh contraire mon friar. 50:04 On the contrary my friend. 50:06 >>TY: I know, I know what it means, but I don't know where. 50:12 >>DAVID: I studied French in high school. 50:15 It's French, yeah. 50:16 >>TY: So, again, the point is 50:18 >>DAVID: Not in Paris, in Rapid City, South Dakota, you 50:21 know, the capital of France. 50:24 >>TY: So, David, you're essentially saying that there 50:29 are those who think grace will give license to sin. 50:34 >>DAVID: Yeah, James keeps saying, we have to saturate this 50:36 in grace, we have to clothe this in grace, we have to dip this in 50:38 grace, we have to every other metaphor possible, and I hear 50:41 that, I love that, I think that's exactly right, I love 50:44 what we've done here. 50:45 I'm simply saying that on that last point that we were just in 50:49 there in Titus chapter 3, so that you will maintain good 50:51 works. 50:53 That there are many well-meaning, but ultimately 50:58 misguided people that would say the exact opposite. 50:59 If we want to elicit good works, the fruit of the spirit, 51:04 godliness, sanctification, we have to talk about doing good 51:08 works, godliness, sanctification. 51:10 Not that we shouldn't, but that's not the real problem, the 51:13 problem is, arises when you say, if you talk too much about 51:16 grace, then that will give license, that will create a 51:21 looseness, what did you say, reckless, or careless. 51:24 >>JEFFREY: Carelessness, license to sin. 51:26 >>DAVID: It's not true. 51:27 Grace is the only thing that can elicit actual, what you were 51:31 saying, James, you were saying, we were saved by grace but 51:34 judged by works in order to see if we're really saved by grace. 51:37 >>JEFFREY: So, we don't need to be sensitive about if somebody 51:41 is overemphasizing grace, we don't need to say, wait, wait, 51:43 wait, wait, but. 51:44 >>DAVID: Listen to me, listen to me, keep going, keep going. 51:48 >>JEFFREY: You emphasize grace, somebody says, yeah, yeah, yeah, 51:51 yeah, but we also need to... 51:54 >>TY: I heard a sermon one time, I didn't give this sermon, but I 51:59 heard this sermon title and I don't even, and the sermon title 52:03 was get your but out of here, it was just great because it was 52:08 all about getting the but that you're talking about out of the 52:11 gospel. 52:12 >>JEFFREY: That's a creative title. 52:14 >>TY: That's a creative title. 52:15 You can use that. 52:16 I don't know who it came from. 52:18 >>DAVID: That's a big but, by the way, gotta get that one out 52:20 of here. 52:21 So, check this out, follow this line of reasoning. 52:25 If we're not preaching a gospel, follow this, this is gonna sound 52:30 a little dangerous, but it's not gonna be. 52:33 If our gospel, our preaching, if Ty Gibson's preaching of the 52:37 gospel and James Rafferty's preaching of the gospel and 52:39 Jeffrey Rosario's preaching of the gospel and David 52:40 Asscherick's preaching of the gospel, and our listeners' 52:42 preaching, teaching, and sharing of the gospel doesn't at some 52:45 point, at some stage, cause people to ask the question, wait 52:50 a minute, aren't you doing away with works? 52:54 Then we're not preaching the gospel that Paul preached. 52:57 Let me read it to you, he says, in verse 15, what then shall we, 53:03 of Romans chapter 6, I'm sorry. 53:05 [Inaudible chatter] 53:10 Romans chapter 6, verse 15, what then, shall we sin because 53:13 we are not under the law but under grace? 53:16 Certainly not. 53:17 Paul anticipates that people are gonna say, whoa, Paul, that's 53:20 just a little too much grace, cool it on the grace thing. 53:23 Take your finger off the grace button, because if you keep your 53:26 finger on the grace button, if you keep your foot on the grace 53:30 pedal, people are going to think that this is a license to sin. 53:34 Isn't that what you're saying? 53:35 And he says, no. 53:37 My point is is that if our preaching of the gospel doesn't, 53:40 at some point, illicit somebody saying, wait a minute, are you 53:44 impinging upon, jeopardizing, or you see what I'm saying? 53:48 Works, then we say, oh, praise God, that's a good accusation. 53:51 >>JEFFREY: It definitely should not illicit yes, yes, we have to 53:56 work, but. 53:58 In other words, it shouldn't be the opposite. 53:59 >>TY: What's the opposite? 54:01 >>JEFFREY: In other words, we're talking about, it shouldn't be, 54:03 we should illicit the sensitivity that we talk about 54:07 grace so much that somebody would say, yes, but what about 54:09 works? 54:10 My point is that, sadly, it's normally the case that it's the 54:14 opposite, we talks about works, works, works, and then it 54:17 elicits a response, yeah, yeah, but what about grace? 54:20 >>DAVID: That's somebody's gospel, that's not Paul's 54:24 gospel. 54:25 That's not Jesus' gospel. 54:26 >>JAMES: Paul was radical. 54:28 >>DAVID: Talk about radical, I had a friend, you guys know who 54:31 this is, I won't say his name, he came to me one time and he's 54:34 good at putting on, and he's like, hey, man, I've been 54:38 studying the bible and he, anyway, he was letting on, he 54:41 was like, hey, I think we're off on this gospel thing, I've been 54:46 doing some new research and I, we're saved by works. 54:49 And I'm like, what? 54:52 And he's just like, no, no, no, we are, we are, and he's like, 54:55 he's playing it up, and he did it really well, for like, a good 54:57 10 minutes, and I'm like, dude, you have lost your mind. 55:00 He's like, no, no, we're saved by works, and then, in this 55:03 like, really pregnant moment, as I was becoming exasperated, it 55:06 normally happens in about the first 30 seconds, he says, yeah, 55:10 no, we're saved by works. 55:13 Jesus' works. 55:14 [Laughter] 55:15 >>TY: Punchline. 55:17 >>DAVID: I was like, come on, man, what do you gotta do that 55:19 to a brother for? 55:20 My blood pressure was like... 55:24 >>JAMES: Here, this is, this brings it together right here, 55:28 John chapter 6, verse 28, is where, the illustration you just 55:32 made comes together to answer the question that we're asking. 55:36 John chapter 6:28 and 29. 55:39 This is where, you just said, the illustration you just gave 55:41 answers the question that we've asked. 55:45 >>DAVID: You gotta hurry up. 55:46 >>JAMES: I know I've gotta hurry up, I know that. 55:48 Okay, John chapter 6, 28 and 29. 55:50 We can't, we cannot not cover these verses. 55:52 Okay. 55:53 [Inaudible chatter] 56:00 Then they said unto him, this is the people talking to Jesus, 56:04 the Jews talking to Jesus, then they said unto him, what shall 56:06 we do that we may work the works of God. 56:08 What can we do to save ourselves? 56:09 And Jesus answered, verse 29, he said unto them, this is the work 56:13 of God that you believe on him who he has sent. 56:17 Yes, we're saved by works, we're saved by the works of Jesus 56:19 Christ. 56:20 And we, our work, the first work we have, it's gonna come up in 56:23 the judgement, have you believed? 56:24 Have you believed on the works of Jesus Christ? 56:28 We will be judged by our works. 56:29 To see if we're saved by grace. 56:31 You got that? 56:32 >>JEFFREY: That's the best way to answer, that text is the best 56:34 way to answer that question. 56:35 >>JAMES: We will be judged by works to see if we're saved by 56:38 grace. 56:39 >>DAVID: So, James, just to be clear, I wanna ask this 56:41 question, are we saved by works? 56:42 >>JAMES: Absolutely, we're saved by works 100% >>DAVID: Whose? 56:46 >>JAMES: The works of Jesus Christ. 56:48 [Laughter] 56:50 That was a good illustration. 56:52 >>TY: So, 1 John, you said, you wanted to hurry up and get to 1 56:56 John, what's there? 56:57 >>DAVID: Well, no, you talked about it on the break, I love 57:00 that text, the boldness text. 57:02 >>TY: 1 John is amazing. 57:04 1 John chapter 3, verses 20 and 21, no chapter 3, verses 20 and 57:10 21 is the background. 57:11 He says here, for if our heart condemns us, God is greater than 57:15 our heart and he knows all things. 57:18 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, then we have 57:22 confidence toward God, so the condemnation is going on in us, 57:27 it's going on in our hearts, and the condemnation that's going on 57:31 in our hearts, Paul says here, can give way to the fact that we 57:37 live before a God who knows everything about us and he 57:40 doesn't condemn us, so now we can have confidence before God. 57:43 Then, we come to chapter 4. 57:47 Then, we come to chapter 4. 57:51 >>DAVID: I'd never seen the connection with Romans chapter 2 57:54 there before, their conscience accusing or else excusing. 57:57 Keep going. 57:58 >>TY: Chapter 4, verses 17 and onward, love has been perfected 58:03 among us in this, that we may have boldness, when? 58:07 In the day of judgement, why? 58:09 Because as he is, so are we in this world. 58:13 There is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear 58:18 because fear involves torment, but he who fears has not been 58:24 made perfect in love. 58:25 We love him because he first loved us. 58:29 We come into the judgment, according to this passage, and 58:33 we have confidence and boldness before God and the judgement by 58:37 virtue of the love of Christ, in which we stand secure, and I 58:43 love the word secure. 58:45 We have security, we have confidence, we have boldness in 58:49 the judgement by virtue of the accomplishments of Christ on our 58:55 behalf. 58:56 >>DAVID: Because if it was in our own works, we would never be 58:58 sure if we'd done enough. 58:59 You couldn't be secure. 59:02 >>TY: And we certainly never would have done enough. 59:05 >>DAVID: Of course. 59:06 >>TY: This has been a great series of conversations, 13 of 59:10 them, in total, hard questions. 59:14 We haven't answered them exhaustively, but this has been 59:18 a good conversation. 59:20 [Music] 59:31 [Music] |
Revised 2016-04-14