Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000034A
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00:00 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:24 it might, before we came, before we came and we were just in the 00:28 break, there was a little debate that was going on here, a little 00:31 discussion, right? 00:33 Pre-cameras-on discussion because the question we're 00:36 looking at now is why does God have so many rules? 00:39 And certain persons were objecting to the nature of the 00:44 question because they're saying, well, God doesn't have so many 00:46 rules. 00:47 >>TY: Certain person. 00:48 >>DAVID: Certain person, but then someone else protested and 00:50 said, no, God does have lots of rules. 00:52 >>JAMES: Someone else? 00:53 Is that what you said, someone else? 00:54 >>DAVID: Another person. 00:55 >>JAMES: Another person said that? 00:56 >>DAVID: So, I kinda had this idea that maybe we would bring 00:58 in a cameraman, we'd bring in someone from the set and ask 01:02 them what they think. 01:03 Get a fifth voice at the table. 01:05 >>TY: Bring him on. 01:07 >>DAVID: Who wants to come? 01:08 Randy, get over here. 01:10 He's the closest one >>TY: Come on, Randy, come on, Randy. 01:13 >>DAVID: Alright, this is none other than our beloved Randy. 01:16 >>TY: Randy Ban. 01:17 >>DAVID: Randy, we're gonna put the question to you. 01:19 Just, does God have lots of rules? 01:22 >>RANDY: I think, as Jeffrey said, you have to define your 01:25 terms for rules, I guess. 01:27 >>DAVID: Oh, come on, that's question 01:28 -- [inaudible chatter] 01:30 >>RANDY: This is hard questions, so I'm just putting 01:32 it back on you guys. 01:33 >>DAVID: So, can I go get behind the camera 01:35 -- >>JAMES: No, that's why he's behind the camera. 01:38 What just happened? 01:39 Get back over by that camera. 01:40 >>DAVID: He's like a sage, comes out here, puts it back onto the 01:42 table. 01:43 Okay, so let's ask the question, then, maybe the, okay, the 01:47 question is, why does God have so many rules? 01:49 Let's start with this question. 01:50 >>TY: Presuppose that he does. 01:52 >>DAVID: I was just gonna say, let's start with this question, 01:53 the one that Randy didn't wanna answer. 01:54 Jeffrey. 01:55 [Laughter] 01:58 >>JEFFREY: Why are you honing in on me? 01:59 >>DAVID: Does God have lots of rules? 02:04 >>JAMES: Many, many, many, many, many? 02:08 >>TY: Me, me, pick me, me, me, pick me. 02:10 >>DAVID: Okay, Jeffrey's in 02:11 -- >>JEFFREY: Yes, God has lots of rules. 02:12 There, I said it. 02:13 God has lots of rules, it's true. 02:15 >>DAVID: Okay. 02:16 Ty, is Jeffrey correct? 02:17 >>JEFFREY: See, the thing implies that that's a bad thing. 02:19 >>DAVID: It doesn't imply that, it just says, why does God have 02:22 so many rules? 02:23 >>JEFFREY: You implied that. 02:24 It doesn't mean it's a bad thing. 02:26 >>DAVID: Okay, so, in answer to the question 02:27 -- >>TY: Well, how many, precisely, does he have? 02:28 Can you give us a number? 02:31 >>DAVID: But listen, this is definitely, there is a way of 02:36 thinking out there, both inside and outside of the church that 02:39 would go something like this, why would I become a follower of 02:42 Jesus? 02:43 Why would I start reading the bible? 02:44 Why would I become a Christian person or a religious person? 02:47 Because there's still so many, I want my freedom. 02:49 There's so many, you tell me what I can do, you tell me what 02:52 I can't do, you tell me what I can watch, you tell me what I 02:54 can't watch, what I can eat, what I can drink, what I can't, 02:56 all of that. 02:59 I mean, let's be honest, that is a perception. 03:01 We'll debate and discuss and dialogue about the validity of 03:04 that here, but it's true to say, I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters. 03:08 I come from a family of 5, and I know that at least in the case 03:11 of one of my sisters and one of my, my younger sister, my 03:14 younger brother, I'm quite certain that if I were to say to 03:18 Rob or Elizabeth, hey, what's the deal? 03:20 Do you think God has lots of rules? 03:22 I think both of them would say, well, sure, look at you. 03:24 They would use me as an example. 03:27 You can't and you don't and you won't and you're not allowed to, 03:29 and you...so this is a question that's out there. 03:33 >>TY: It's huge. 03:34 >>DAVID: Why does God say yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, no, no, 03:37 no, no. 03:38 >>TY: I'd like to suggest that this concept, this idea, 03:43 actually, this fear that God has lots of rules. 03:48 >>DAVID: It is a fear. 03:50 >>TY: Yeah, I would like to suggest that it hails back to 03:53 Genesis chapter 3 and the fall of mankind and one aspect of 04:00 Satan's misrepresentation of God's character. 04:03 I think that what we see taking place in Genesis 2 and 3 is that 04:09 God presented a vast horizon of freedom with minimum restriction 04:15 and that minimum restriction was specifically for their good, and 04:21 then I think that the devil came along and presented vast 04:27 restriction and minor freedom, if freedom at all, and 04:33 basically 04:34 -- >>DAVID: It's almost implied that there is no freedom. 04:34 >>TY: 04:36 --basically communicated the idea that God is a killjoy, God 04:40 is restrictive, God is against happiness, pleasure, freedom. 04:45 >>DAVID: Even human advancement. 04:46 God knows that in the day you eat of that tree, you'll be 04:48 better off. 04:50 >>TY: So, what we see taking place, just for a little bit of 04:54 background, it's interesting that when God creates the human 04:58 race, God, by his design, puts them in a garden that God names 05:04 Eden. 05:05 That word Eden means pleasure. 05:08 Yeah, it's pleasure, not restriction. 05:10 So, God creates the human being to interface with their 05:15 environment in a way that produces happiness, pleasure, 05:21 freedom, just the capacity for development and growth and 05:26 everything that we associate with liberty. 05:30 That's the environment that God put them in. 05:32 So, I would say it this way. 05:34 I think that the bible presents that, at a fundamental level, 05:38 God is pro-pleasure and anti-pain, that God is 05:42 pro-liberty and anti-restriction, that God is 05:46 pro-love and anti-sin. 05:51 So, that's a way, I think, of articulating the situation that 05:58 is born out in Genesis 2 and 3. 06:00 >>DAVID: Okay, I love all that, can we just, because we're 06:03 assuming a background here from previous conversations, from 06:05 even previous seasons. 06:07 What is the specific argument/text/accusasion against 06:11 God that suggests this vast panorama of restriction with 06:15 just a narrow window of freedom. 06:18 >>TY: Well, just compare these two verses, Genesis chapter 2, 06:22 here's God's exact language, and the Lord God commanded, yeah, 06:27 verses 16 and 17 of Genesis 2, the Lord God commanded the man, 06:31 saying, of every tree of the garden you may freely eat. 06:36 Notice the language, notice the tone, notice that God is saying 06:40 you may freely eat of every tree. 06:42 There's a gajillion trees out there that you can eat from, 06:47 enjoy. 06:48 Eat of these trees. 06:49 >>JAMES: Research suggests about one billion, 1.1 billion. 06:52 >>TY: Trees. 06:53 >>DAVID: What? 06:54 >>TY: But then, there's a qualification, but of the tree 06:58 of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it, 07:01 because in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die. 07:05 That was my point earlier that God presented vast horizon of 07:08 freedom, minor restriction for their good. 07:12 Those are the 3 parts to the original statement. 07:14 Okay, and then, look 07:17 -- [inaudible chatter] 07:19 >>JEFFREY: I'm prepping. 07:20 >>TY: Then in Genesis chapter 3, it's interesting that when Satan 07:24 comes along and leads them into his deception, he says to the 07:29 woman, he says, has God indeed said you may not eat or you 07:34 shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 07:37 Notice, he flips the whole thing around, now, basically saying, 07:42 you can't eat anything around here. 07:44 >>DAVID: Can a guy find a place to eat? 07:47 >>TY: Yeah, what in the world? 07:49 God has imposed all this restriction on you and then, as 07:53 the conversation goes on, you can see that the devil is 07:56 basically saying, in so many words, you need, I highly 07:59 recommend that you break free from this restrictive God who is 08:03 trying to hold you down. 08:04 That's the storyline. 08:06 >>DAVID: That is the storyline. 08:07 >>TY: So, I think God is fundamentally a God of liberty 08:10 and freedom, and that he's interested in our advancement, 08:14 our development, our pleasure, that's where God lives, God 08:17 lives in that beautiful place of liberty and pleasure and 08:21 restriction is something that he's not really into and the 08:25 only thing he says no to, the only thing God says no to is 08:29 that which is fundamentally for our harm. 08:33 Yeah, detrimental to us. 08:34 >>JAMES: Two verses I wanna look at in this. 08:36 >>DAVID: Great job, Ty, I love that. 08:38 >>JAMES: You brought up a word and Ty, from that word, that 08:41 word is pleasure, and then, Ty closed with the idea that God 08:44 wants us to experience pleasure, except for the pleasure that is 08:48 detrimental, it is not good for us. 08:51 So, two verses, the first one here is in Psalm 16, verse 11, 08:55 and it simply says here, thou will show me the path of life, 09:00 in thy presence is fullness of joy, at thy right hand, there 09:04 are 09:05 -- >>TY: Pleasures. 09:06 >>JAMES: For... 09:06 >>TY: Forevermore. 09:07 >>JAMES: Forever. 09:08 Okay, so, God built us and made us and planned for us to enjoy 09:14 pleasure forevermore. 09:15 That's why I think, in Hebrews 13, it says, marriage is 09:18 honorable and the bed is undefiled. 09:20 Okay, and then, if you look in Hebrews chapter 13, this is the 09:23 second verse, I want you to notice here what happens. 09:26 >>DAVID: Hebrews 13? 09:27 >>JAMES: Hebrews 11. 09:28 >>DAVID: Hebrews 11. 09:29 >>JAMES: Yeah, I was just quoting from Hebrews 13. 09:31 But Hebrews 11 is the second verse, and this is a description 09:34 of the faith of God's people down through the ages, and this 09:39 particular verse is talking about Moses. 09:42 The context is that Moses, who was the son of Pharaoh refused 09:46 to be called the son of Pharaoh, because he was looking ahead to 09:49 his reward, he was looking at eternal realities, and he was 09:52 comparing that to temporal benefit. 09:53 And he refused to be called the son of Pharaoh. 09:56 And then it says here, it says, in verse 25, choosing 09:58 rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy 10:02 the pleasure, there's the word again, of sin, but what's the 10:06 last phrase? 10:07 >>TY: For a season. 10:08 >>JAMES: For a season. 10:09 The pleasure of sin is pleasurable, but it's seasonal. 10:12 >>DAVID: The passing pleasures of sin. 10:17 Marginal reading, the temporary pleasures of sin. 10:19 >>JAMES: So, you've got pleasure forevermore and then you've got 10:22 seasonal pleasures. 10:23 >>TY: That's a good comparison of text. 10:24 >>JAMES: And Satan is the one that introduced to us seasonal 10:28 pleasure. 10:29 He's the one, with the lie you won't surely die. 10:32 And God is trying to somehow bring us back to understand, no, 10:35 I'm not against you having pleasure, I'm not restrictive, I 10:38 made you for pleasure. 10:39 And I want you to have pleasure that's gonna last forever, it's 10:42 not seasonal. 10:43 >>DAVID: Jeffrey is, he's chewing, he's chewing, go. 10:45 >>JEFFREY: I still think we're operating on an assumption. 10:47 >>TY: What's the assumption? 10:48 >>JEFFREY: Well, everything you guys have said so far, a lot of, 10:51 I resonate with that clearly that God is liberty. 10:54 >>TY: Do you feel obligated to, because we quoted it all from 10:56 the bible? 10:57 Or do you resonate with it? 10:59 >>JEFFREY: You quoted partially from scripture, and I'm about to 11:02 help you with the other part that you 11:03 -- >>TY: Okay, thank you. 11:04 [inaudible chatter] 11:06 >>JEFFREY: The point is, the assumption is that too many 11:09 rules, too many rules are restrict, see, the assumption is 11:13 that rules are restrictive. 11:14 That's the basic assumption from which that argument takes off. 11:18 No, no, no, God doesn't have any rules, look at the text, he's 11:21 freedom, he's against restriction, to which I would 11:25 reply, yeah? 11:27 What does that have to do with whether or not God has a lot of 11:30 rules? 11:32 The assumption is that rules equal restriction and so, I 11:37 affirm the liberty part, but I think that rules don't 11:40 necessarily equate 11:42 to restriction. 11:43 I think rules protect and enable liberty. 11:48 So, from that concept, it's a good thing that God has a lot, 11:54 I'll continue, I'll affirm, God has a lot of rules, I believe 11:57 that. 11:58 Now, clearly, all of his rules can be summed up into basic 12:02 principles, love, you know, love is the rule. 12:05 >>DAVID: Did you say two basic principles, or just in basic 12:07 principles? 12:08 >>TY: Well, he meant, love to God, love to human beings. 12:10 >>DAVID: Okay, so, love. 12:11 >>JEFFREY: So we can say even, you know, everything that there 12:14 is to know about life and how to relate to one another and so 12:17 forth hangs on these two principles, love God and love 12:20 your neighbor. 12:21 That's true, but from that flows a whole, like, world of 12:26 -- >>DAVID: A pantheon. 12:27 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, of rules, like for example. 12:28 Let me illustrate. 12:30 >>DAVID: Or multiplicity. 12:31 Anyways, keep going. 12:32 >>JEFFREY: Relationships need to be protected, essentially God 12:37 has as many rules as are necessary to protect the liberty 12:43 which we enjoy in our relationship with him 12:46 >>DAVID: That's a great way to say it. 12:47 >>JEFFREY: If you look at the 10 Commandments, for example, I can 12:49 just couch the my argument in this sense. 12:51 Are the 10 Commandments 10 rules or are they 10 promises? 12:57 And I already know what you guys think about that. 12:59 The 10 Commandments are 10 promises, right? 13:02 I have liberated you, I have rescued you from Egypt, from 13:05 bondage, you're free, therefore, you shall not kill, you shall 13:09 not steal, and so forth, we're familiar with this concept. 13:10 So, if you were to couch every rule in the bible, every rule 13:15 from God in that context, do you want God to have a lot of those 13:19 or a little bit of those? 13:21 >>DAVID: Promises, you mean? 13:23 >>JEFFREY: Yeah. 13:23 If his rules 13:24 -- >>TY: Good point, Jeffrey. 13:26 >>JEFFREY: If his commandments are promises, do you want a lot 13:30 of those or a little bit of those? 13:31 >>DAVID: I hate it when he makes sense. 13:34 >>TY: That's good. 13:34 >>JEFFREY: I want a lot of those. 13:36 >>TY: I want a lot of those, too. 13:38 >>JEFFREY: I think it's mutually, it's complimentary, 13:40 what we're saying. 13:42 >>TY: Yeah, basically, you just agreed with everything that I 13:44 said earlier, but you put it 13:47 -- >>JEFFREY: Not quite, but okay. 13:48 >>DAVID: You know what my favorite thing, Jeffrey said a 13:50 lot there, my favorite thing, by far, that you said, and I think 13:53 it was a stroke of clarity and brilliance is that God has as 13:57 many rules as are necessary. 14:01 >>TY: There's another way to articulate that. 14:02 >>DAVID: Good for you, that just flowed right off the tongue. 14:05 >>TY: Yeah, that was beautiful, how about this? 14:06 God always says yes unless he has to say no. 14:11 Right? 14:13 And there's scripture for that. 14:15 What about Deuteronomy chapter 5, verse 29? 14:18 Deuteronomy chapter 5, verse 29. 14:23 This is an interesting thing that God has said to his people 14:29 and the backdrop is that there has been a lot that's been said 14:33 to them, a lot of rules, we could say. 14:35 Chapter 5, verse 29, and this is God speaking, oh, that they, 14:40 that's God's people, oh, that they had such a heart in them 14:44 that they would fear me and always keep all my commandments, 14:48 plural, so there's a lot of them, that it might be well with 14:54 them and with their children forever. 14:55 So, God is interested in our flourishing. 15:00 God wants us to thrive. 15:02 God is interested in us being well, our wellbeing is what he 15:07 has at heart, and he's saying, oh, that you would obey my 15:12 commandments so that your life would be elevated in quality, 15:17 not diminish in quality. 15:18 God's law isn't a prison that you have to pace in, God's law 15:23 is a vast field of freedom where there are beautiful things to 15:29 partake of within the parameters of his love, his righteousness, 15:35 his law. 15:36 So, God's law is a good thing, it's a beautiful thing. 15:40 One way that's been helpful for me to view this is that there's 15:44 the one and that's love. 15:47 There's one rule. 15:48 And that's love, but then, the one is manifested it what we can 15:55 call the two. 15:56 Love God, love your fellow human beings. 15:59 And then there's the 10, so are the 10 taking a sharp left or 16:04 right turn away from the one or the two? 16:06 No, they are a further enunciation of the two and the 16:13 one, right? 16:15 And then, you can go this far, then there's, I don't know, 16:18 hundreds, the Jewish rabbi said 613 laws that they had come up 16:25 with from scripture. 16:26 So, then there's the 100s and what are those 100s? 16:29 Let's just call the 100s the entire scripture, the whole 16:33 bible. 16:34 And Jesus came along and he said all the law and the prophets are 16:38 summarized in the two, which are summarized in the one. 16:44 So, does God have a lot of rules? 16:46 Yes and no. 16:48 >>JEFFREY: Yes and no. 16:49 >>TY: He has one rule that if you think it through and act it 16:55 out in all your relationships, is manifested in many. 16:59 God has one, he has many, but all of those many are, 17:02 essentially, one principle. 17:05 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, because the fundamental rule, if it's love, 17:07 love is so profound, so grand, that we don't have the capacity 17:12 to really process it and therefore, it necessitates help, 17:18 we need help in processing what love looks like. 17:22 So, every single injunction, every single, every commandment 17:26 and every rule, every whatever in scripture is there, it's 17:29 calculated to help us process what does love look like to God 17:34 and to one another? 17:35 >>DAVID: The way that I taught this idea to my children, it's 17:39 fairly rudimentary, maybe even a little, you know, it's for a 17:42 child, is I explained to them that you have a body of a trunk, 17:47 one trunk, and out of that trunk come your two arms, right? 17:53 So, you have, here's the one, and here's the two arms, and at 17:55 the end of your two arms are the ten fingers. 17:57 So, I said, just remember this, boys, you were made to love and 18:01 we use our arms to love God with our hands, with our actions, to 18:05 love God with all our heart, mind, and soul, and to love our 18:07 neighbor as ourselves, and in case you wanna remember what 18:10 those specific instances are, there's the 10 Commandments, 18:13 this is how you love, this is how you love on the vertical 18:17 love, this is how you love on the horizontal level, and that's 18:20 just been very helpful as a sort of pedagogical device, to say, 18:22 hey, boys, is it the one? 18:24 You know, you're mistreating your brother, oh, what's going 18:26 on, have you, is something wrong with one of your arms? 18:29 Or there was dishonesty. 18:31 Is there something wrong in one of your fingers? 18:33 So, I just found that to be very helpful. 18:36 >>TY: So, as we conclude this first part of the conversation 18:39 and take a break, I think we're on the same page, Jeffrey. 18:44 >>DAVID: Well, at least we're in the same book. 18:46 >>TY: We're in the same book, that's right. 18:48 Let's take a break and we'll come right back and continue. 18:51 [Music] 18:56 >>The bible is a big book. 18:58 It's composed of 66 smaller books, written by more than 40 19:03 different authors. 19:05 It's easy to get bogged down in all the genealogies, ancient 19:09 history and intersecting characters with unpronounceable 19:12 names. 19:13 And yet, the bible is full of rich and powerful truths that 19:18 all of us need to understand. 19:21 Wouldn't you love to have an experienced tour guide take you 19:24 on a step-by-step journey through some of the most vital 19:28 and beautiful truths contained in the bible? 19:30 Well, now, it's here. 19:32 It's called Truth Link. 19:34 Truth Link is a groundbreaking new series of easy to understand 19:39 bible study guides that thousands of people around the 19:43 world are raving about. 19:45 Why all the excitement? 19:47 Because Truth Link systematically unfolds 27 life 19:52 transforming biblical topics, but not as a list of dry 19:57 theological facts. 19:58 Rather, Truth Link takes you on an engaging, biblical 20:04 expedition, demonstrating how every truth of scripture reveals 20:09 some facet of God's beautiful character. 20:12 Truth Link isn't just information, it's a spiritual 20:17 journey that will radically impact your life. 20:20 We would really love for you to have these bible study guides 20:24 because we know they will be a blessing to you. 20:28 You can get them by visiting truthlink.org or by calling 20:33 541-988-3333. 20:38 [Music] 20:46 >>TY: I'm under the distinct impression that God is primarily 20:51 about liberty but the sin problem has created a situation 20:56 where he needs to put in place protective measures in order to 21:02 bring us back into the kind of liberty that we need. 21:04 Jeffrey had brought up, in our previous conversation, that when 21:09 we were talking about the death of Christ on the cross, that we 21:12 needed to explore the nature of sin. 21:15 I like that language. 21:16 I'd like to suggest that we spend a few minutes talking 21:20 about the nature of law, which is the opposite of sin, the 21:25 nature of law, and more specifically, the nature of 21:27 freedom. 21:28 What does freedom look like? 21:32 Because David pointed out that if he were to talk to some of 21:34 his family members who are unbelievers and ask them, is God 21:40 restrictive, does God have a lot of rules? 21:42 They'd say, of course he does, just look at your life. 21:44 >>DAVID: And we've all heard that. 21:45 >>TY: Yeah, we've all heard that, it's not, it's a 21:47 prevailing idea out there that God is super restrictive, he has 21:50 a lot of rules, if I give my life to God, it's gonna cramp my 21:54 style, it's gonna lessen my pleasure, not increase my 21:58 pleasure. 22:00 So, when I say we should talk about the nature of law and 22:04 freedom, what I mean by that is when people are engaged, for 22:10 example, in committing sin, is their capacity for pleasure and 22:18 freedom lessening? 22:21 Or is it increasing? 22:23 >>JAMES: It's lessening. 22:23 >>TY: It's lessening. 22:24 >>JAMES: I was speaking from my own experience. 22:26 >>TY: It's actually lessening. 22:28 >>JAMES: I was addicted to sin, so I'm addicted to those actions 22:33 that I know, as the Holy Spirit is speaking to me, as we talked 22:36 about the conscience is speaking to me, I know and really want to 22:40 be free from, I wanna, I know that I shouldn't be doing these 22:43 things and I wanna be free from doing these things, but I can't 22:45 find freedom and liberty. 22:46 I can't find whatever it is within me to be free from those 22:50 things, which, at first, I thought were actually a mark of 22:54 freedom, indication of liberty just to party and do whatever I 22:58 wanted to do with my life, but now I find that those things are 23:01 distasteful to me, the results, the environment, the amount of 23:04 time and finance it takes to have that in my life is, I'm 23:12 repulsed by it, but I find myself addicted to it. 23:14 >>JEFFREY: I just wanted to follow up on your question, too, 23:19 you asked, correct me if I'm wrong, you asked, in continuing 23:24 to sin, is liberty increased or decreased, or diminished? 23:29 We can argue that liberty is diminished, freedom is 23:33 diminished because sin cripples our capacity to be truly human, 23:37 right? 23:38 So, God created us, God created the human race and he designed 23:44 us in a certain way to function and a certain way to relate to 23:47 life and to reality. 23:48 As soon as sin comes into the picture, there are things 23:51 introduced to the human experience that were never 23:54 intended to be there. 23:55 Fear, guilt, shame, so forth, and so, every form of sin 24:01 cripples our ability to be truly human in the way we were 24:07 designed to be, and in that sense, sin is restrictive, 24:12 because we're being restricted. 24:14 Because there's still things, there's freedom from, and 24:17 freedom to, right? 24:19 And what we're normally, most people are familiar with freedom 24:22 from, right? 24:23 I was, I'm free from such and such, but we rarely speak on, I 24:29 have freedom to. 24:32 And I think that's more powerful than this over here. 24:36 >>DAVID: Let me speak directly to that. 24:37 On my Twitter account, of all of the tweets, I've been doing 24:41 Twitter now for, whatever, a year, of all of the tweets that 24:43 I've tweeted that have gotten the most either favorites or 24:46 retweets, it was this tweet, you ready? 24:49 Freedom is not being able to do what you want to do, it's being 24:55 able to do what you were created to do. 24:58 >>TY: Beautiful. 24:59 >>DAVID: In other words, the point is, that is deeply 25:01 resonant with people, they say, well, that's it. 25:03 Freedom is not just getting to do whatever I want because you 25:05 are free, free to be enslaved. 25:07 You were free to get addicted, you were free to be enslaved, 25:11 you were free, but if real freedom is understood in the 25:15 context of the 10 Commandments as well as in the Garden of 25:17 Eden, you are free to be what God created you to be. 25:22 That's freedom. 25:23 >>JEFFREY: That's huge. 25:25 >>TY: Well, think about this, let's speak of specifics, then, 25:29 imagine two scenarios, one person is conducting their 25:35 business affairs and pursuing their career by dishonesty, 25:42 lying when they find it advantageous to their 25:45 advancement through the company or through the profession that 25:50 they're pursuing. 25:51 People begin to pick up on that violation of the law of honesty 25:58 and what naturally happens? 26:01 The people that that individual is endeavoring to do business 26:05 with begin emotionally to shut down and to pull back for lack 26:10 of trust. 26:11 So, trust is receding from this individual and he is 26:17 increasingly alone in his pursuits for advancement in 26:23 whatever his profession happens to be. 26:24 Versus on the other hand, imagine a person who, through 26:28 devoted honesty builds up in the relationships of their business 26:35 affairs, the distinct impression that this guy can be depended 26:39 on, this guy tells the truth even to his hurt. 26:42 Even if it's going to be to his disadvantage, this guy is not 26:48 going to take advantage, people are leaning into that person, 26:51 they're drawing close. 26:53 They want to do business. 26:54 So, this guy begins to experience a larger horizon of 27:00 business interactions by virtue of honesty, which produces 27:05 trust, his freedom is growing. 27:08 This person 27:10 -- >>DAVID: He's free to do business with more people than 27:11 he otherwise would've been. 27:12 >>TY: This person is lessening those who trust him and 27:15 therefore, diminishing his capacity for doing business. 27:18 Isn't that how it works? 27:21 >>DAVID: I think that's exactly what is meant when the bible 27:23 says that God is not mocked, whatever a man sows, he will 27:27 also reap. 27:28 Galatians, is that 6? 27:29 Galatians 6? 27:29 >>TY: Yes. 27:30 >>DAVID: Be not deceived, God is not mocked. 27:31 It's saying, if you, it's almost, and I wanna be careful 27:35 here, but it's almost like, not identically, but it's like the 27:39 karma thing in Hinduism. 27:41 You know, the karma thing says, you do a good deed and then that 27:44 comes back around through an actual karmic cycle. 27:47 Now, we're not, of course, advocating that, but the idea 27:50 that you can't just sow dishonesty and expect to reap 27:52 trust and freedom and people's good will and positive 27:58 relationships, but the converse is also true, if you do sow 28:02 happiness, trust, freedom, generosity, kindness, 28:07 compassion, you will reap, that's the fruit that you will 28:11 eat. 28:12 In other words, in some ways, the people that formulated, I'm 28:14 sure, going back millennia, that formulated the basic idea of 28:19 karma said, hm, what goes around comes around. 28:22 We saw, he acted like this and then that came back and got him, 28:25 and they're thinking, oh, this is a principle in the universe, 28:28 and in that sense, it is. 28:29 If you create an environment, right? 28:33 Okay, like in the Garden of Eden, they created an 28:35 environment where they ended up having fear, shame, and guilt, 28:39 by virtue of the seeds that had been sown in their life. 28:43 >>TY: Another example would be marriage. 28:48 Okay, see if this makes sense. 28:51 In the 10 Commandments, one of them says, you shall not commit 28:55 adultery. 28:56 Now, you can perceive that, depending on how you're looking 29:00 at it, as a restriction that will lessen your capacity for 29:04 pleasure, you can look at that and say, you mean one? 29:11 One sexual partner? 29:13 Just one? 29:15 I mean, that seems rather narrow minded. 29:18 Or you can look at it like this, that sex is more than the 29:23 passing pleasures of sin and that sex is more than the 29:27 physical pleasure, there's an emotional component, there's a 29:32 spiritual component, and if you stay with one person, you cross 29:38 certain thresholds, where trust, security, you start to, 29:44 intimacy, yeah. 29:46 >>DAVID: Knowing that this is a human and this is a person, is 29:50 the mother of my children or the father of my, there's a, keep 29:54 going, I don't wanna stop you, but I hear what you're saying. 29:56 >>TY: No, you're adding to it. 29:57 The fact is that the capacity for pleasure expands in 30:03 monogamy. 30:04 One man, one woman, for life, experiences transitions in their 30:11 experience where they become more and more secure, more and 30:15 more trusting, and they're just at peace in the relationship and 30:19 they enjoy one another so much, whereas what we're being told by 30:23 social scientists is that the breaking point for most 30:27 marriages is between 7 and 10 years. 30:30 People start to feel like they can't sustain the relationship 30:34 and that it's going to fall apart, and if you end the 30:38 relationship at the 7-10 year mark, you cut off your potential 30:43 for pleasure you didn't even know was around the corner, 30:46 because if you get through the struggles together of identity 30:49 and you continue to grow together, you'll cross a line 30:54 where you've bonded on a deeper level because the conflicts gave 30:58 way to trust and you're under the distinctive impression, you 31:02 know what, you're gonna stay with me. 31:04 I've violated you, you forgave me. 31:09 >>DAVID: I was unkind, I was impatient. 31:10 >>TY: So, now, I trust you more and I'm more secure, and it 31:14 begins to reciprocate on new levels, so the pleasure quotient 31:18 just goes off the charts and you end up having an experience with 31:22 another human being and that's what God has in mind, God is 31:25 saying, listen, the only reason I'm telling you to do this that 31:31 or the other thing is because within those rules, within those 31:37 laws, there's greater capacity for peace and happiness and 31:41 pleasure and satisfaction. 31:42 >>DAVID: What I love about what you said, I love everything that 31:46 you said there, Ty, but what I really love is, I think there is 31:49 a fundamental, just take sexuality, this is not the only 31:52 kind of pleasure in marriage, there's lots of pleasures in 31:54 marriage, but let's just take that one. 31:56 Because that is one that has been hijacked by culture. 31:59 That's one that's been hijacked by the world in which we live. 32:02 Hyper sensual, hypersexualized culture. 32:05 The pornification of culture, that's the world we live in. 32:08 And what, to me, the greatest danger of porn, the greatest 32:12 danger of this hypersexualization of culture is 32:14 that it hinges on a fundamental lie that sex is primarily 32:21 bodily. 32:22 It's bodily, it's physical, it's between one body and another 32:27 body. 32:28 that is not true. 32:29 That is actually the dehumanization of the sexual 32:32 experience. 32:33 It's one person and another person. 32:37 And somebody that you just met in that bar or got hooked up 32:39 with at this party or whatever, you don't know who that person, 32:41 what are their names, what are their fears, what are their 32:43 struggles, what are their hopes, what are their dreams, what is 32:47 all of that? 32:48 And when you get to know a person and you realize this 32:50 person loves me and I love this person, then you have, as you 32:54 said, not just the physical element, which is a beautiful 32:56 thing, but then you have the social element, you have the 33:00 psychological element, you have the emotional element, you have 33:02 this whole beautiful package, and then, that's why you go 33:07 through the checkout counters and they'll have, you know, 33:09 Cosmopolitan magazine or Women's Health or Men's Health or 33:11 whatever, and it's you know, new sexual positions, new sexual 33:14 pleasures, it's almost like, really? 33:16 All of that? 33:17 It's Much Ado About Nothing because it's like they're eating 33:22 the outside of the orange but never getting to the point. 33:25 They're missing the point and the point is complete trust 33:30 -- >>TY: What about the orange? 33:31 >>JAMES: It's even worse than that, it's like addictive food, 33:35 it's like the fast food, it's like the junk food that we eat, 33:38 it's so addictive and yet, it's so unsatisfying. 33:43 It doesn't satisfy the deepest need, it doesn't give your body 33:47 the nutrients it needs, so you don't get the nutrients, so you 33:50 need more, you need more, you need more, you need, everyone 33:52 needs more, well, of course we need more. 33:53 We've gotta have it, we've gotta have it, we've gotta have it. 33:55 >>DAVID: Because they're looking for something, that can't give 33:57 you what you're looking for. 33:58 >>JAMES: I still remember the day that I started eating whole 34:01 wheat bread. 34:02 I used to love 34:05 -- >>DAVID: That is not what I thought he was gonna say. 34:07 >>JEFFREY: The ultimate transition. 34:08 >>JAMES: I used to love white bread and I would take that 34:10 Wonder Bread and I would just roll it up in a little ball, you 34:12 know, I would just pop it up and pop, pop, pop. 34:14 And I could eat half a loaf. 34:19 I could just pop it down. 34:21 And I remember when I started eating whole wheat bread, I 34:23 remember when I ate my first piece of whole wheat bread, 34:24 which I didn't like at the time, now I love whole wheat bread, I 34:27 can't stand white bread. 34:28 But anyway, I ate that thing and I thought, man, this is dense, 34:32 man 34:33 -- >>TY: How long do I have to chew? 34:34 >>JAMES: And after I was finished, there was a 34:36 satisfaction that I was like, I don't even really need a lot of 34:40 this, and I think that's the same thing in relationships. 34:42 The real thing is 3-fold. 34:46 >>JEFFREY: All the nutrients were there, they weren't 34:48 separated. 34:49 >>JAMES: All the components are there and there's something 34:50 satisfying about that that actually guards against the 34:53 addictive desire for sex in these other areas. 34:57 >>DAVID: I'm reading a book right now called Salt, Sugar, 34:58 Fat. 34:59 Fascinating book, highly recommend it. 35:01 I recommend it, just wanna say to the viewers as well, Salt, 35:04 Sugar, Fat, read it. 35:05 Fascinating book, and basically, what the book is about is how 35:12 the food companies, okay, the big food companies in the world 35:15 today are in the same place right now, the very same place 35:19 that the tobacco companies were in 25-30 years ago, where people 35:23 began to say, hey, wait a minute, isn't there some 35:25 culpability here with the tobacco companies. 35:27 The research says that tobacco does this, we know that it's 35:30 addictive, and these are the health problems that are 35:33 resulting. 35:34 And there was this gigantic, I can remember seeing those 35:36 trials, the Senate hearings and others where the big tobacco, 35:40 Phillip J Morris and RJ Reynolds, they're all lined up 35:43 and they're saying, no, no, no, and the senators and the 35:45 congressmen and other are asking the hard questions and we know 35:48 the outcome of that. 35:49 There's the labelling, there was billions of dollars in lawsuits, 35:53 and not just that, but sort of the perception of the prestige 35:57 that was associated with the, you know, the cigarette, that 36:00 just, it started to come down. 36:02 >>JAMES: But also the chemicals that they were putting into the 36:05 tobacco to make it addictive. 36:06 >>DAVID: Right, so the food companies, the purpose of this 36:10 book is to say, the food companies are in that same place 36:12 right now because they know that if they add this much salt, this 36:15 much sugar, this much fat, they are creating a product that is 36:19 two things, addictive. 36:20 There's a whole new study, a whole new science that food is 36:23 as addictive. 36:24 Certain foods can be scientifically engineered to be 36:26 as addictive as cigarettes ever were. 36:28 And deeply harmful to the body. 36:32 Obesity is an epidemic right now, diabetes is an epidemic 36:35 right now, the list goes on. 36:37 Inactivity is epidemic right now, and the point of the book 36:40 is basically this, that people are eating, like you were 36:44 saying, they just love their Oreos and they love their 36:46 Doritos and they love this comfort food. 36:50 >>TY: It's not even food, though, let's not call it food. 36:52 >>DAVID: Food-like substance. 36:53 >>TY: Food in quote marks. 36:54 >>DAVID: It's food, okay, well, if that's not food, okay, are 36:57 you ready for this? 36:58 Then what's taking place in bedrooms all around the world? 37:02 That's not sex. 37:03 That's not God's ideal for sex. 37:04 I don't know what that is. 37:05 That's two bodies getting together, whatever, but that is 37:08 not what scripture is speaking about when it says that a man 37:11 and a woman will come together emotionally, psychologically, 37:16 personally, in int 37:17 -- that's the point. 37:18 >>TY: Yeah, yeah. 37:19 >>DAVID: And that food will leave you fat, and that kind of 37:23 pursuit of sexual satisfaction, that liberty, getting back to 37:27 Jeffrey's thing about how rules, are there lots, or, that will 37:30 leave you sexually obese, in other words, it will turn you 37:33 into a person who is incapacitated to 37:37 -- >>TY: You want more and more and more of what can't satisfy. 37:39 >>JEFFREY: Hey, before we take a break, I don't know how we're 37:42 doing on time, can I read just to affirm everything you just 37:45 said in James 1, I know we were all hoping to be the one to read 37:50 this, actually, James chapter 2 and verse 12, as we're familiar 37:54 with, and for our viewers, James chapter 2, verse 12, where 37:57 powerful, powerful definition of the law or identification of the 38:01 law, what we're told here in verse 12, speak and do as those 38:06 who will be judged by the law of liberty. 38:10 And that goes back to the point we've been making from the 38:12 beginning that the law of God, the commandments of God, the 38:17 rules of God are calculated to allow us to access greater 38:23 dosages of liberty. 38:24 >>DAVID: To be more human, I love the way you say human. 38:27 >>JEFFREY: Yeah, to be at liberty to be who we were 38:29 created to be originally. 38:31 And all of these counterfeit cultural things we see in 38:34 society are actually providing the exact opposite. 38:38 It's keeping people in a perpetual rat race. 38:41 >>DAVID: This might sound a little pedestrian or you know, 38:47 inconsequential, but I have a number of friends who expressed 38:53 surprise at the fact that I don't drink coffee. 38:55 I don't drink coffee and they like coffee and they like to go 39:00 to the coffee shops and sit down and do all of that. 39:02 I'll go with them, but I'll drink an herbal tea or whatever. 39:05 And I sometimes get the sense that there's this almost, you 39:11 know, this contempt, not an outright contempt because these 39:14 are good people, but there's almost like a, you know, poor 39:17 guy, you know. 39:18 But you know, the thing is is that I'm not, I'm free to have 39:24 regular sleep patterns. 39:25 I'm free to not wake up in the morning with my eyes like, you 39:29 know, the Garfield eyes, halfway down and, oh, man, I need my 39:32 morning cup of coffee. 39:33 I'm free to wake up, drink a glass of water and hit the day. 39:37 You see what I'm saying? 39:38 So, there's a rule. 39:39 >>JEFFREY: You're free from extra yellow in your teeth. 39:41 >>DAVID: I'm free from extra yellow in my teeth. 39:42 I'm free from the diuretic, there's a lot of things that 39:45 caffeine is not, I read a book years ago called Caffeine Blues. 39:47 So, is that a rule? 39:49 Well, I mean, I can't show you a text in the bible that says, you 39:52 shall not drink caffeine, but the principle of health, the 39:56 principle of putting into my body the things that are the 39:59 most beneficial to my mental, physical, spiritual, social 40:02 health, I can show you that. 40:03 And so, I'm, that is a restriction. 40:05 But it's a restriction that brings about liberty. 40:08 >>TY: Well, we have to take a break and then come back for our 40:11 third segment, but I have one scripture I found and one that, 40:16 during the break, you might be able to help me find that I just 40:18 can't put my finger on, but I think you're gonna love it if we 40:21 can find it, and I think those who are studying with us, 40:24 conversing with us on this theme will really like this verse if 40:28 we can find it. 40:28 So, let's take a break. 40:29 [Music] 40:34 Announcer: Truth is not merely a list of theological facts, but 40:38 rather the revelation of God's beautiful love in Jesus Christ. 40:41 Truth Link is a series of bible study guides that magnify God's 40:46 love as the center of every bible doctrine. 40:48 To receive your free copy of lesson one, call 877-585-1111 or 40:55 write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, 41:01 Oregon, 97438. 41:03 Once again, to receive your free copy of Truth Link lesson one, 41:07 call 877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper 41:15 Lowell Road, Jasper, Oregon, 97438. 41:20 Simply ask for Truth Link, lesson one. 41:22 [Music] 41:28 >>DAVID: I am absolutely loving this conversation. 41:31 We're talking about the nature of freedom, the nature of law, 41:34 the nature of, even to some degree, the nature of sin is 41:37 restrictive. 41:38 >>TY: The nature of pleasure. 41:39 >>DAVID: The nature of pleasure. 41:40 I'm loving it, and I think that this view, I know this view is 41:44 not widely understood as the Christian view. 41:48 People looking from the outside into the aquarium are not seeing 41:52 this view and those of us that are living, as it were, in the 41:54 Christian aquarium, we're not, I don't think we're doing as good 41:57 a job 41:58 -- >>JEFFREY: We're not representing it as 41:59 -- >>DAVID: I'll tell you right now. 42:01 I've been preaching for 17 years, 17 years pastor. 42:02 I can tell you that from much of my preaching, I wasn't preaching 42:06 it like this. 42:08 I was preaching things like Saturday's the Sabbath and 42:10 that's the true day and you need to keep it. 42:12 >>TY: So, get her done. 42:13 >>DAVID: Get her done. 42:14 And listen, was what I was saying true? 42:16 >>JAMES: Yes. 42:17 >>DAVID: Yes. 42:18 >>JAMES: It is true. 42:19 >>DAVID: That's correct. 42:20 It reminds me of a website that I saw not too long ago, maybe 42:22 I've mentioned this before, but I think one of the cameramen 42:25 Ameel actually showed it to me or we were talking about it. 42:27 There's this Christian ministry that, not from my denomination, 42:32 not my church, but a Christian ministry, reasonably large 42:34 church, I don't know who the guy is, but somebody sent me a link 42:36 and I thought it was so interesting, here's the guy's 42:38 resource page, pastors a church of 5, 6, 7,000. 42:40 Resource page, and his sermons, he's been pastoring the church 42:44 for, like, 16 years, and the sermons go back until about 42:47 2000, I think it was like 2006, 2008, something like that. 42:52 And then there was a little, you click on anything before 2008, 42:55 and there was a little, this is the link he sent me, it said, 42:57 all sermons from before 2008 have been removed. 43:02 Not for content, but for tone. 43:06 All sermons have been removed. 43:09 He went back, I don't know who the guy is, I've never heard one 43:11 of his sermons, but I love the fact that he went back and he 43:14 said, you know what, that's true. 43:16 That's true, that's true. 43:17 I wish that I could go back and remove not all, but some of my 43:21 own sermons that I've preached, not for content, but for tone. 43:26 >>JEFFREY: For emphasis. 43:27 >>DAVID: For emphasis, for perspective. 43:29 It's not that I was saying things that weren't true, at 43:30 least I hope I wasn't, but I sometimes, the other day, I'll 43:34 tell you a story, on my phone, I have an old, old, old voice memo 43:38 from a sermon that I preached a long time ago, it was still on 43:39 there, it was just back in the day where I had a little voice 43:42 recorder, it was the first iPhone I ever got, so it's like 43:44 going back about 6 years, and I just set it on the pulpit and 43:46 tried to record it, which doesn't work for me as you know, 43:48 because I'm laundering here, there, and everywhere. 43:49 It wasn't going through the sound system. 43:50 I was just recording it on the spot. 43:52 And I listened to that sermon and I thought, overall, it 43:55 wasn't a bad sermon, but I thought, man, there are ways 43:59 that I would say that now that I know are better. 44:03 >>JAMES: David, there's something here that I think is 44:07 really powerful and this is what it is, you said that the tone, 44:12 and I would say another word that's synonymous with that 44:15 would be the spirit. 44:15 The spirit. 44:17 And then we're talking about liberty and restriction, we're 44:20 talking about these, the contrasting ideas that we have 44:23 about sin and about the law of God. 44:25 Now, listen to this verse, and this verse just puts it all 44:27 together, just listen to this verse. 44:28 You'll know it, as soon as I start reading it, you'll know 44:31 it. 44:32 Now, the Lord is that spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord 44:36 is, there is liberty. 44:39 If the Holy Spirit is preaching through us and teaching through 44:41 us, we're preaching a message that is liberating. 44:44 We're preaching a message of liberty. 44:46 That's the tone of our message. 44:48 That's the, so this guy says, from 2008 before, wrong tone. 44:53 There's a way that Jesus Christ, when he came on this earth, 44:56 there's a way that, when he walked this planet, when the 44:58 greatest man that ever trod shoe leather walked planet earth, 45:01 there was a way that he presented the same truth, wasn't 45:05 a different truth, it was the same truth. 45:07 The same stuff. 45:08 But there was a tone, there was a spirit and he said, when he 45:12 first started, he said, I've come to set the captives free, 45:17 that's what he said. 45:18 >>TY: Oh, bring it on, please. 45:19 >>JAMES: That's powerful. 45:21 >>TY: But not only tone and spirit, but also configuration, 45:26 because you can have two parts of an equation and overemphasize 45:32 one part of the conceptual puzzle to the minimizing or 45:38 exclusion of the other part. 45:39 You wouldn't just outright deny that other part because, after 45:43 all, there are bible verses about it, so you're a little bit 45:46 careful with that. 45:47 So, you know it's there, but the configuration, how you put the 45:50 picture together is really, really important. 45:55 I mean, we're talking, believe it or not, we're talking about 45:59 law. 46:00 We're talking about rules right now, but we're talking about 46:03 rules, we're talking about law, God's law, and we've painted a 46:08 picture of liberty. 46:09 >>DAVID: It's the law of liberty. 46:11 >>TY: It's the law of liberty, according to scripture. 46:13 You remember, before we took the break, I said there were 2 46:16 scriptures and one of them I found and the other one I was 46:19 trying to find, okay. 46:20 This verse is amazing in Psalm 119, verse 32, and it's about 46:28 the law of God, and notice how it's articulated. 46:32 It says, verse 32, David says, I will run in the course of your 46:39 commandments, for you shall enlarge my heart. 46:44 That's the New King James Version. 46:45 So, let's begin with that. 46:47 I will run, you have to have space to run, right? 46:51 You can't run in a room that's 12 feet by 12 feet. 46:56 You can't even get up momentum. 46:58 You can't run in a cage. 46:59 You have to have a horizon, you have to have some space to run. 47:03 And he says, I'm running in the course of your commandments. 47:07 God's law is a vast horizon, we said, of freedom. 47:11 And then, he says, for you shall enlarge my heart. 47:15 Now, that's interesting language, and that goes back to 47:17 what Jeffrey said earlier when Jeffrey used the word capacity. 47:21 Within the law of God, there is an enlargement of capacity for 47:28 freedom, and within sin, there is a diminishing of capacity for 47:34 freedom. 47:35 Now, another verse, yeah, go ahead. 47:38 >>JEFFREY: You're leaving someone? 47:39 >>TY: Let me tell you, there's another version, another 47:42 rendering of 47:43 -- [inaudible chatter] 47:46 >>JEFFREY: I'm gonna affirm you on the same chapter. 47:47 >>TY: Okay, watch this. 47:48 I will run in the course of your commandments, for you shall 47:52 enlarge my heart. 47:53 In another version, the version is NIV, says, I will run in the 47:57 course of your commandments, something like that, and this 47:59 part, for you have set my heart free. 48:03 You've set me free. 48:04 In what context have you set my heart free? 48:07 In the context of your law. 48:09 Your commandments are, in fact, the parameters within which I 48:15 find all this freedom, this liberty. 48:18 >>JEFFREY: That's exactly what it says, I just glanced down, 48:21 that's exactly what it says in verses 44 and 45. 48:24 >>TY: Alright, bring us there. 48:25 >>JEFFREY: I shall keep your law continually forever and ever. 48:29 Verse 45, and I will walk at liberty because, for I seek your 48:35 precepts. 48:36 The fact that I'm seeking your precepts, your rules, your 48:40 commandments, your statutes, allows me to walk at liberty. 48:43 Oh, that's good. 48:44 >>DAVID: Jeffrey, do you have verse 45 there, the marginal 48:46 reading, do you have the marginal reading there for 45? 48:49 >>JEFFREY: I don't. 48:50 >>DAVID: Listen to this. 48:51 Ty, you'll love this, it's the very point you were just making 48:53 back up in verse 32, look at this, I will walk at liberty, 48:56 marginal reading, I will walk in a wide place. 48:59 >>TY: Oh, is that verse 45 or 32? 49:01 >>DAVID: That's verse 45. 49:02 I will walk at liberty in a wide place. 49:06 >>TY: Isn't that something? 49:07 >>DAVID: That's the very point you were making, you can't run 49:09 in a 12x12 room. 49:10 You don't see lions running, they pace, right? 49:13 A lion in a zoo. 49:14 But I'll tell you this, my favorite state in the United 49:19 States of America, now that I live in Australia, I have an 49:22 increasing fondness for not only the US, but this state, it's my 49:28 state, it's the state I was born in, the state I was born again 49:30 in. 49:31 What state was that? 49:32 >>TY: Wyoming. 49:32 >>DAVID: Wyoming. 49:33 And years ago, I read a book, not a Christian book 49:37 necessarily, but a book about, not a Christian book at all, in 49:39 fact, but a book that was written by someone who was just 49:42 praising Wyoming, it was just a book in praise of Wyoming. 49:45 It's where I was born, it's where I was born again, my 49:47 family's from there, my parents still live there. 49:48 And the book was called The Solace of Wide Open Spaces. 49:53 >>TY: Oh, nice. 49:54 >>DAVID: And I tell you, there is something about Wyoming. 49:57 Even the old song says, give me home where the buffalo, what do 49:59 they do? 50:00 They roam, and the deer and the antelope, they play. 50:02 I've always, look, when I go to a city and don't get me wrong, I 50:05 can visit a city, I can enjoy New York City for a day or 2 or 50:09 3. 50:09 But I feel, I start to feel confined. 50:13 But, man, I get out in Wyoming and I just, there's the 50:15 mountains over here and here's this stream and the plains and I 50:17 see the antelope racing across, I mean, this 50:20 -- >>TY: That's what the bible is describing here. 50:22 James and I had an experience in Wyoming. 50:26 We were preaching at a camp meeting in North Carolina and I 50:32 bought a car there, right after the camp meeting, but we had 50:35 another camp meeting we had to speak at in a matter of days in 50:39 Washington state. 50:40 So, all the way from the east coast to the west coast, okay. 50:42 So, you can't throw the car you just bought in your carry on 50:47 luggage and get it home, so we flew out there, I bought that 50:51 car and then, James was willing to drive it back with me so that 50:56 there could be no need for stopping at a hotel, no need for 50:59 stopping, we could just one of us is sleeping and one of us is 51:01 driving and we drove from North Carolina to Washington state in 51:05 32-33 hours, in 32 hours across the United States, nonstop. 51:11 But the best part, where we really gained some time was in 51:14 Wyoming with those long straight stretches of open road and no 51:20 police officers anywhere. 51:23 >>DAVID: There's like a sheriff in Casper, there's like a 51:25 sheriff in Cheyenne, there's like a sheriff in Jackson. 51:27 >>TY: I put that car to the test, man, just 110, 120 miles 51:32 an hour straight through Wyoming. 51:34 >>JEFFREY: This just became a huge plugin for Wyoming all of a 51:37 sudden. 51:38 >>DAVID: Listen, I'm just telling you, it's paradise. 51:40 It is. 51:41 Go to the website, no I'm just kidding. 51:44 >>TY: So, I said, I had two. 51:45 The other one, I couldn't find it. 51:48 >>DAVID: I will walk in wide open places. 51:49 >>TY: I couldn't find it, but during the break, I did find it, 51:52 it's chapter 2 of Jeremiah, verse 13, and this scripture, at 51:59 first, is a little bit elusive, like, what is this talking 52:02 about? 52:03 But notice this, God has been speaking to his people who have 52:06 been pursuing, let's just call it rebellion, or let's just call 52:09 it sin. 52:10 They've been outside of the parameters of God's will, God's 52:13 law, God's law, God's rules, okay? 52:15 And chapter 2 of Jeremiah, verse 13, for my people have committed 52:20 two evils, number one, they have forsaken me, the fountain of 52:26 living waters. 52:29 So, you have an image here of free flowing, living waters. 52:34 That's the first evil, they've turned away from me, the 52:37 fountain of living waters, and here's the second evil, they 52:41 have humed for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that 52:48 cannot hold water. 52:49 This is a metaphoric description of containers that are broken, 52:58 they have holes in them so that the water that you're trying to 53:02 contain cannot be contained and there's just massive leakage. 53:06 This is a description in scripture of the fact that God 53:10 and his ways are free flowing and liberating, but sin is 53:16 restrictive and it leaks, it's not sustainable. 53:22 It's not sustainable. 53:24 There are unsustainable pleasures. 53:26 James took us to 53:28 -- >>JAMES: Psalm 16. 53:30 >>TY: No, where was that sin for a season? 53:32 Hebrews, Hebrews 11. 53:34 The pleasures of sin for a season basically is saying that 53:40 sin gives momentary pleasure, but the pleasure sin gives is 53:45 not sustainable pleasure. 53:46 It doesn't increase with exercise, it diminishes until 53:49 you don't even have the capacity for pleasure anymore. 53:51 But God's ways are ways of pleasantness and peace. 53:57 There's a place in Psalm 37 where God says, if you come to 54:01 me, you will drink of the rivers of my pleasures. 54:05 Rivers of pleasures. 54:08 >>JEFFREY: Constant source. 54:09 >>TY: Constant source, never diminished, expanding pleasures. 54:15 So, broken cisterns. 54:17 That's what the world is offering, broken cisterns that 54:19 cannot hold water. 54:20 >>JAMES: By the way, Moses experienced that. 54:22 Moses experienced that. 54:24 Moses is an example of that reality, because think about it, 54:26 Moses chose to suffer with his people than to experience the 54:31 pleasure of sin for a season and today, we know that Moses is in 54:35 heaven experiencing pleasures at God's behalf forevermore. 54:40 Now, where would Moses be if he wouldn't have chosen to do that? 54:43 >>JEFFREY: In a museum somewhere. 54:44 >>JAMES: Yeah, we'd be paying big bucks to go see Moses' 54:46 stuff. 54:47 Whoa, there's Moses' chariot, oh, check that out, there's, 54:50 pleasures for a season. 54:52 >>DAVID: An illustration that comes to mind whenever we talk 54:55 about these kinds of things for me, are the young people that 54:59 make a bad choice because of peer pressure or whatever else 55:02 and they take that first drink of alcohol or they take that 55:05 first puff of marijuana or that first pill or whatever. 55:09 Just the other day, I was talking to somebody, I was 55:12 actually giving a devotion to the Adventist college where I'm 55:14 at, Tweed Valley Adventist College in Australia, and I said 55:17 to the young people, the best way to guarantee that you never 55:20 have a second drink of alcohol is don't take a first. 55:23 The way to guarantee you do not become an alcoholic, you do not 55:27 become enslaved, you don't, to guarantee that you're not one of 55:30 these people who's 22 years old, heroin addicted, overdosed, you 55:35 no longer can enjoy the pleasures of heroin or the 55:38 pleasures of cocaine or the pleasures of drunkenness because 55:40 you're dead. 55:41 You will never taste a mango, I mean, I'm going back to 55:46 Australia and mango season is just around the corner. 55:48 Do we need to talk about mango season? 55:51 You know what I'm saying, and just go down the list, whether 55:55 it's mangos or the holding of a fresh baby or the catching of a 55:59 wave or the walking on a beach with your wife, all of the 56:04 pleasures, we could just start listing the things. 56:07 James, what do you enjoy doing? 56:08 You enjoy hitting a ball just perfect on that tennis racket. 56:10 I love the way that feels myself. 56:12 Ty has his pleasures, Jeffrey has his pleasures, I have my 56:14 pleasures, and, but you don't enjoy any of that when you're 56:17 dead. 56:18 >>TY: And you don't enjoy any of that when you are plagued with 56:24 mistrust and insecurity and guilt and shame and failure. 56:28 >>DAVID: I just use the drugs as an illustration of, oh yeah, 56:31 you're free, you're free to take that drink and you're free to 56:33 put that in your veins, and you are also free to die prematurely 56:38 or to live a life, maybe you don't die, maybe you don't die, 56:41 and it's not a scare tactic, it's, this is not scaring 56:44 people, that doesn't work, oh, you shouldn't because this bad 56:47 thing will happen, it's not the bad thing that happens, it's the 56:50 fact that you don't get to experience the fullness of joy. 56:53 I am come that they might have life and that they might have it 56:55 more abundantly. 56:56 >>TY: The reason it's not scare tactics is because God's law 56:58 describes the proper operations of life and reality. 57:03 This is the way life works. 57:06 There are certain protocols for any pursuit and within God's 57:15 law, there are inherent principles that expand and 57:20 within sin, there are inherent principles that contract. 57:22 That's the bottom line. 57:24 >>JEFFREY: In a sense, I don't wanna open a counter war, I know 57:25 we're almost out of time, but in a sense, God's rules are 57:28 restrictive, they restrict brokenness and sin, evil, they 57:33 restrict, you know, all of the addiction, pain, suffering, they 57:39 restrict all of these things from entering and reproaching 57:42 into my life, and that's another way to look at it. 57:44 >>TY: Exactly. 57:45 >>DAVID: And they restrict us from viewing other people 57:48 negatively, with suspicion, with distrust. 57:52 God's laws free us to believe the best about those people 57:56 around us. 57:58 To hope, love believes all things, love hopes all things, 58:02 love endures all things. 58:03 So, at the end of the day, it's not just about God's law frees 58:06 me for me and my end, that's true, but it also frees me to 58:11 see the best in others. 58:15 Jesus, he was a master of that. 58:16 He was a master of that. 58:18 >>TY: So, we began with a question, why does God have so 58:20 many rules? 58:21 >>DAVID: Can answer it in one word, love. 58:24 >>TY: Yeah, that's why. 58:25 >>JEFFREY: That's why, love. 58:26 >>TY: Every single thing that God says is an extension of the 58:31 goodness of his character, he's longing for us to flourish and 58:35 thrive. 58:36 He doesn't want us in cages, he wants us in the open planes of 58:39 Wyoming, experiencing the plains of life. 58:44 God's law is good because God is good himself. 58:48 >>JAMES: Amen. 58:50 [Music] 59:00 [Music] |
Revised 2016-04-14