[Music]
00:00:00.26\00:00:10.27
[Music]
00:00:10.27\00:00:21.08
it might, before we came, before
we came and we were just in the
00:00:24.32\00:00:28.76
break, there was a little debate
that was going on here, a little
00:00:28.76\00:00:31.59
discussion, right?
00:00:31.59\00:00:33.03
Pre-cameras-on discussion
because the question we're
00:00:33.03\00:00:36.83
looking at now is why
does God have so many rules?
00:00:36.83\00:00:39.77
And certain persons were
objecting to the nature of the
00:00:39.77\00:00:44.44
question because they're saying,
well, God doesn't have so many
00:00:44.44\00:00:46.47
rules.
00:00:46.47\00:00:47.11
>>TY: Certain person.
00:00:47.11\00:00:48.31
>>DAVID: Certain person, but
then someone else protested and
00:00:48.31\00:00:50.41
said, no, God does
have lots of rules.
00:00:50.41\00:00:52.15
>>JAMES: Someone else?
00:00:52.15\00:00:53.35
Is that what you
said, someone else?
00:00:53.35\00:00:54.42
>>DAVID: Another person.
00:00:54.42\00:00:55.22
>>JAMES: Another
person said that?
00:00:55.22\00:00:56.45
>>DAVID: So, I kinda had this
idea that maybe we would bring
00:00:56.45\00:00:58.62
in a cameraman, we'd bring
in someone from the set and ask
00:00:58.62\00:01:02.22
them what they think.
00:01:02.22\00:01:03.06
Get a fifth voice at the table.
00:01:03.06\00:01:05.86
>>TY: Bring him on.
00:01:05.86\00:01:07.00
>>DAVID: Who wants to come?
00:01:07.00\00:01:08.40
Randy, get over here.
00:01:08.40\00:01:10.43
He's the closest one >>TY:
Come on, Randy, come on, Randy.
00:01:10.43\00:01:13.37
>>DAVID: Alright, this is none
other than our beloved Randy.
00:01:13.37\00:01:16.10
>>TY: Randy Ban.
00:01:16.10\00:01:17.54
>>DAVID: Randy, we're
gonna put the question to you.
00:01:17.54\00:01:19.67
Just, does God
have lots of rules?
00:01:19.67\00:01:22.81
>>RANDY: I think, as Jeffrey
said, you have to define your
00:01:22.81\00:01:25.88
terms for rules, I guess.
00:01:25.88\00:01:27.25
>>DAVID: Oh, come
on, that's question
00:01:27.25\00:01:28.48
-- [inaudible chatter]
00:01:28.48\00:01:30.49
>>RANDY: This is hard
questions, so I'm just putting
00:01:30.49\00:01:32.22
it back on you guys.
00:01:32.22\00:01:33.25
>>DAVID: So, can I
go get behind the camera
00:01:33.25\00:01:35.79
-- >>JAMES: No, that's
why he's behind the camera.
00:01:35.79\00:01:38.23
What just happened?
00:01:38.23\00:01:39.23
Get back over by that camera.
00:01:39.23\00:01:40.56
>>DAVID: He's like a sage, comes
out here, puts it back onto the
00:01:40.56\00:01:42.66
table.
00:01:42.66\00:01:43.83
Okay, so let's ask the question,
then, maybe the, okay, the
00:01:43.83\00:01:47.70
question is, why does
God have so many rules?
00:01:47.70\00:01:49.74
Let's start with this question.
00:01:49.74\00:01:50.97
>>TY: Presuppose that he does.
00:01:50.97\00:01:52.21
>>DAVID: I was just gonna say,
let's start with this question,
00:01:52.21\00:01:53.17
the one that Randy
didn't wanna answer.
00:01:53.17\00:01:54.34
Jeffrey.
00:01:54.34\00:01:55.34
[Laughter]
00:01:55.34\00:01:58.35
>>JEFFREY: Why are
you honing in on me?
00:01:58.35\00:01:59.88
>>DAVID: Does God
have lots of rules?
00:01:59.88\00:02:04.02
>>JAMES: Many,
many, many, many, many?
00:02:04.02\00:02:08.32
>>TY: Me, me, pick
me, me, me, pick me.
00:02:08.32\00:02:10.39
>>DAVID: Okay, Jeffrey's in
00:02:10.39\00:02:11.29
-- >>JEFFREY: Yes,
God has lots of rules.
00:02:11.29\00:02:12.83
There, I said it.
00:02:12.83\00:02:13.90
God has lots of
rules, it's true.
00:02:13.90\00:02:15.56
>>DAVID: Okay.
00:02:15.56\00:02:16.26
Ty, is Jeffrey correct?
00:02:16.26\00:02:17.43
>>JEFFREY: See, the thing
implies that that's a bad thing.
00:02:17.43\00:02:19.53
>>DAVID: It doesn't imply that,
it just says, why does God have
00:02:19.53\00:02:22.60
so many rules?
00:02:22.60\00:02:23.54
>>JEFFREY: You implied that.
00:02:23.54\00:02:24.57
It doesn't mean
it's a bad thing.
00:02:24.57\00:02:26.37
>>DAVID: Okay, so, in
answer to the question
00:02:26.37\00:02:27.71
-- >>TY: Well, how
many, precisely, does he have?
00:02:27.71\00:02:28.98
Can you give us a number?
00:02:28.98\00:02:31.08
>>DAVID: But listen, this is
definitely, there is a way of
00:02:31.08\00:02:36.42
thinking out there, both inside
and outside of the church that
00:02:36.42\00:02:39.29
would go something like this,
why would I become a follower of
00:02:39.29\00:02:42.39
Jesus?
00:02:42.39\00:02:43.22
Why would I start
reading the bible?
00:02:43.22\00:02:44.46
Why would I become a Christian
person or a religious person?
00:02:44.46\00:02:47.30
Because there's still
so many, I want my freedom.
00:02:47.30\00:02:49.90
There's so many, you tell me
what I can do, you tell me what
00:02:49.90\00:02:52.97
I can't do, you tell me what
I can watch, you tell me what I
00:02:52.97\00:02:54.64
can't watch, what I can eat,
what I can drink, what I can't,
00:02:54.64\00:02:56.71
all of that.
00:02:56.71\00:02:59.21
I mean, let's be
honest, that is a perception.
00:02:59.21\00:03:01.11
We'll debate and discuss and
dialogue about the validity of
00:03:01.11\00:03:04.01
that here, but it's true to say,
I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters.
00:03:04.01\00:03:08.48
I come from a family of 5, and
I know that at least in the case
00:03:08.48\00:03:11.49
of one of my sisters and
one of my, my younger sister, my
00:03:11.49\00:03:14.22
younger brother, I'm quite
certain that if I were to say to
00:03:14.22\00:03:18.46
Rob or Elizabeth,
hey, what's the deal?
00:03:18.46\00:03:20.86
Do you think God
has lots of rules?
00:03:20.86\00:03:22.76
I think both of them would
say, well, sure, look at you.
00:03:22.76\00:03:24.70
They would use me as an example.
00:03:24.70\00:03:27.20
You can't and you don't and you
won't and you're not allowed to,
00:03:27.20\00:03:29.84
and you...so this is a
question that's out there.
00:03:29.84\00:03:33.14
>>TY: It's huge.
00:03:33.14\00:03:34.38
>>DAVID: Why does God say yes,
no, yes, no, yes, no, no, no,
00:03:34.38\00:03:37.78
no, no.
00:03:37.78\00:03:38.88
>>TY: I'd like to suggest
that this concept, this idea,
00:03:38.88\00:03:43.28
actually, this fear
that God has lots of rules.
00:03:43.28\00:03:48.86
>>DAVID: It is a fear.
00:03:48.86\00:03:50.06
>>TY: Yeah, I would like to
suggest that it hails back to
00:03:50.06\00:03:53.80
Genesis chapter 3 and the fall
of mankind and one aspect of
00:03:53.80\00:04:00.57
Satan's misrepresentation
of God's character.
00:04:00.57\00:04:03.34
I think that what we see taking
place in Genesis 2 and 3 is that
00:04:03.34\00:04:09.01
God presented a vast horizon of
freedom with minimum restriction
00:04:09.01\00:04:15.52
and that minimum restriction was
specifically for their good, and
00:04:15.52\00:04:21.66
then I think that the devil
came along and presented vast
00:04:21.66\00:04:27.40
restriction and minor
freedom, if freedom at all, and
00:04:27.40\00:04:33.00
basically
00:04:33.00\00:04:34.17
-- >>DAVID: It's almost implied
that there is no freedom.
00:04:34.17\00:04:34.80
>>TY:
00:04:34.80\00:04:36.00
--basically communicated the
idea that God is a killjoy, God
00:04:36.00\00:04:40.04
is restrictive, God is against
happiness, pleasure, freedom.
00:04:40.04\00:04:45.75
>>DAVID: Even human advancement.
00:04:45.75\00:04:46.95
God knows that in the day
you eat of that tree, you'll be
00:04:46.95\00:04:48.82
better off.
00:04:48.82\00:04:50.02
>>TY: So, what we see taking
place, just for a little bit of
00:04:50.02\00:04:54.06
background, it's interesting
that when God creates the human
00:04:54.06\00:04:58.23
race, God, by his design, puts
them in a garden that God names
00:04:58.23\00:05:04.47
Eden.
00:05:04.47\00:05:05.40
That word Eden means pleasure.
00:05:05.40\00:05:08.60
Yeah, it's
pleasure, not restriction.
00:05:08.60\00:05:10.47
So, God creates the human
being to interface with their
00:05:10.47\00:05:15.98
environment in a way that
produces happiness, pleasure,
00:05:15.98\00:05:21.22
freedom, just the capacity
for development and growth and
00:05:21.22\00:05:26.79
everything that we
associate with liberty.
00:05:26.79\00:05:30.09
That's the environment
that God put them in.
00:05:30.09\00:05:32.23
So, I would say it this way.
00:05:32.23\00:05:34.30
I think that the bible presents
that, at a fundamental level,
00:05:34.30\00:05:38.00
God is pro-pleasure
and anti-pain, that God is
00:05:38.00\00:05:42.00
pro-liberty and
anti-restriction, that God is
00:05:42.00\00:05:46.14
pro-love and anti-sin.
00:05:46.14\00:05:51.15
So, that's a way, I think, of
articulating the situation that
00:05:51.15\00:05:58.19
is born out in Genesis 2 and 3.
00:05:58.19\00:06:00.12
>>DAVID: Okay, I love all
that, can we just, because we're
00:06:00.12\00:06:03.06
assuming a background here from
previous conversations, from
00:06:03.06\00:06:05.26
even previous seasons.
00:06:05.26\00:06:07.03
What is the specific
argument/text/accusasion against
00:06:07.03\00:06:11.93
God that suggests this vast
panorama of restriction with
00:06:11.93\00:06:15.94
just a narrow window of freedom.
00:06:15.94\00:06:18.37
>>TY: Well, just compare these
two verses, Genesis chapter 2,
00:06:18.37\00:06:22.18
here's God's exact language, and
the Lord God commanded, yeah,
00:06:22.18\00:06:27.75
verses 16 and 17 of Genesis 2,
the Lord God commanded the man,
00:06:27.75\00:06:31.59
saying, of every tree of
the garden you may freely eat.
00:06:31.59\00:06:36.73
Notice the language, notice the
tone, notice that God is saying
00:06:36.73\00:06:40.90
you may freely
eat of every tree.
00:06:40.90\00:06:42.90
There's a gajillion trees
out there that you can eat from,
00:06:42.90\00:06:47.14
enjoy.
00:06:47.14\00:06:48.44
Eat of these trees.
00:06:48.44\00:06:49.94
>>JAMES: Research suggests
about one billion, 1.1 billion.
00:06:49.94\00:06:52.37
>>TY: Trees.
00:06:52.37\00:06:53.01
>>DAVID: What?
00:06:53.01\00:06:54.61
>>TY: But then, there's a
qualification, but of the tree
00:06:54.61\00:06:58.05
of the knowledge of good and
evil, you shall not eat of it,
00:06:58.05\00:07:01.58
because in the day that you
eat of it, you will surely die.
00:07:01.58\00:07:05.05
That was my point earlier that
God presented vast horizon of
00:07:05.05\00:07:08.86
freedom, minor
restriction for their good.
00:07:08.86\00:07:12.23
Those are the 3 parts
to the original statement.
00:07:12.23\00:07:14.36
Okay, and then, look
00:07:14.36\00:07:17.57
-- [inaudible chatter]
00:07:17.57\00:07:19.70
>>JEFFREY: I'm prepping.
00:07:19.70\00:07:20.94
>>TY: Then in Genesis chapter 3,
it's interesting that when Satan
00:07:20.94\00:07:24.81
comes along and leads them into
his deception, he says to the
00:07:24.81\00:07:29.64
woman, he says, has God indeed
said you may not eat or you
00:07:29.64\00:07:34.95
shall not eat of
every tree of the garden?
00:07:34.95\00:07:37.39
Notice, he flips the whole thing
around, now, basically saying,
00:07:37.39\00:07:42.39
you can't eat
anything around here.
00:07:42.39\00:07:44.83
>>DAVID: Can a guy
find a place to eat?
00:07:44.83\00:07:47.03
>>TY: Yeah, what in the world?
00:07:47.03\00:07:49.16
God has imposed all this
restriction on you and then, as
00:07:49.16\00:07:53.54
the conversation goes on,
you can see that the devil is
00:07:53.54\00:07:56.17
basically saying, in so
many words, you need, I highly
00:07:56.17\00:07:59.67
recommend that you break free
from this restrictive God who is
00:07:59.67\00:08:03.81
trying to hold you down.
00:08:03.81\00:08:04.75
That's the storyline.
00:08:04.75\00:08:06.25
>>DAVID: That is the storyline.
00:08:06.25\00:08:07.35
>>TY: So, I think God is
fundamentally a God of liberty
00:08:07.35\00:08:10.35
and freedom, and that he's
interested in our advancement,
00:08:10.35\00:08:14.09
our development, our pleasure,
that's where God lives, God
00:08:14.09\00:08:17.99
lives in that beautiful place
of liberty and pleasure and
00:08:17.99\00:08:21.33
restriction is something that
he's not really into and the
00:08:21.33\00:08:25.40
only thing he says no to,
the only thing God says no to is
00:08:25.40\00:08:29.20
that which is
fundamentally for our harm.
00:08:29.20\00:08:33.11
Yeah, detrimental to us.
00:08:33.11\00:08:34.44
>>JAMES: Two verses I
wanna look at in this.
00:08:34.44\00:08:36.38
>>DAVID: Great
job, Ty, I love that.
00:08:36.38\00:08:38.08
>>JAMES: You brought up a word
and Ty, from that word, that
00:08:38.08\00:08:41.02
word is pleasure, and then,
Ty closed with the idea that God
00:08:41.02\00:08:44.59
wants us to experience pleasure,
except for the pleasure that is
00:08:44.59\00:08:48.86
detrimental, it
is not good for us.
00:08:48.86\00:08:51.13
So, two verses, the first one
here is in Psalm 16, verse 11,
00:08:51.13\00:08:55.16
and it simply says here, thou
will show me the path of life,
00:08:55.16\00:09:00.84
in thy presence is fullness
of joy, at thy right hand, there
00:09:00.84\00:09:04.97
are
00:09:04.97\00:09:05.61
-- >>TY: Pleasures.
00:09:05.61\00:09:06.01
>>JAMES: For...
00:09:06.01\00:09:06.68
>>TY: Forevermore.
00:09:06.68\00:09:07.61
>>JAMES: Forever.
00:09:07.61\00:09:08.84
Okay, so, God built us and made
us and planned for us to enjoy
00:09:08.84\00:09:14.32
pleasure forevermore.
00:09:14.32\00:09:15.75
That's why I think, in
Hebrews 13, it says, marriage is
00:09:15.75\00:09:18.55
honorable and
the bed is undefiled.
00:09:18.55\00:09:20.66
Okay, and then, if you look in
Hebrews chapter 13, this is the
00:09:20.66\00:09:23.66
second verse, I want you
to notice here what happens.
00:09:23.66\00:09:26.66
>>DAVID: Hebrews 13?
00:09:26.66\00:09:27.46
>>JAMES: Hebrews 11.
00:09:27.46\00:09:28.36
>>DAVID: Hebrews 11.
00:09:28.36\00:09:29.40
>>JAMES: Yeah, I was
just quoting from Hebrews 13.
00:09:29.40\00:09:31.23
But Hebrews 11 is the second
verse, and this is a description
00:09:31.23\00:09:34.97
of the faith of God's people
down through the ages, and this
00:09:34.97\00:09:39.24
particular verse is
talking about Moses.
00:09:39.24\00:09:42.91
The context is that Moses, who
was the son of Pharaoh refused
00:09:42.91\00:09:46.25
to be called the son of Pharaoh,
because he was looking ahead to
00:09:46.25\00:09:49.25
his reward, he was looking
at eternal realities, and he was
00:09:49.25\00:09:52.12
comparing that
to temporal benefit.
00:09:52.12\00:09:53.86
And he refused to be
called the son of Pharaoh.
00:09:53.86\00:09:56.06
And then it says here, it
says, in verse 25, choosing
00:09:56.06\00:09:58.66
rather to suffer affliction with
the people of God than to enjoy
00:09:58.66\00:10:02.90
the pleasure, there's the word
again, of sin, but what's the
00:10:02.90\00:10:06.87
last phrase?
00:10:06.87\00:10:07.37
>>TY: For a season.
00:10:07.37\00:10:08.24
>>JAMES: For a season.
00:10:08.24\00:10:09.34
The pleasure of sin is
pleasurable, but it's seasonal.
00:10:09.34\00:10:12.41
>>DAVID: The
passing pleasures of sin.
00:10:12.41\00:10:17.05
Marginal reading, the
temporary pleasures of sin.
00:10:17.05\00:10:19.71
>>JAMES: So, you've got pleasure
forevermore and then you've got
00:10:19.71\00:10:22.08
seasonal pleasures.
00:10:22.08\00:10:23.15
>>TY: That's a
good comparison of text.
00:10:23.15\00:10:24.39
>>JAMES: And Satan is the one
that introduced to us seasonal
00:10:24.39\00:10:28.16
pleasure.
00:10:28.16\00:10:29.19
He's the one, with the
lie you won't surely die.
00:10:29.19\00:10:32.09
And God is trying to somehow
bring us back to understand, no,
00:10:32.09\00:10:35.30
I'm not against you having
pleasure, I'm not restrictive, I
00:10:35.30\00:10:38.23
made you for pleasure.
00:10:38.23\00:10:39.77
And I want you to have pleasure
that's gonna last forever, it's
00:10:39.77\00:10:42.04
not seasonal.
00:10:42.04\00:10:43.14
>>DAVID: Jeffrey is, he's
chewing, he's chewing, go.
00:10:43.14\00:10:45.07
>>JEFFREY: I still think we're
operating on an assumption.
00:10:45.07\00:10:47.08
>>TY: What's the assumption?
00:10:47.08\00:10:48.31
>>JEFFREY: Well, everything you
guys have said so far, a lot of,
00:10:48.31\00:10:51.41
I resonate with that
clearly that God is liberty.
00:10:51.41\00:10:54.32
>>TY: Do you feel obligated to,
because we quoted it all from
00:10:54.32\00:10:56.95
the bible?
00:10:56.95\00:10:57.75
Or do you resonate with it?
00:10:57.75\00:10:59.75
>>JEFFREY: You quoted partially
from scripture, and I'm about to
00:10:59.75\00:11:02.22
help you with the
other part that you
00:11:02.22\00:11:03.66
-- >>TY: Okay, thank you.
00:11:03.66\00:11:04.16
[inaudible chatter]
00:11:04.16\00:11:06.09
>>JEFFREY: The point is,
the assumption is that too many
00:11:06.09\00:11:09.33
rules, too many rules are
restrict, see, the assumption is
00:11:09.33\00:11:13.74
that rules are restrictive.
00:11:13.74\00:11:14.97
That's the basic assumption from
which that argument takes off.
00:11:14.97\00:11:18.84
No, no, no, God doesn't have any
rules, look at the text, he's
00:11:18.84\00:11:21.71
freedom, he's against
restriction, to which I would
00:11:21.71\00:11:25.55
reply, yeah?
00:11:25.55\00:11:27.32
What does that have to do with
whether or not God has a lot of
00:11:27.32\00:11:30.55
rules?
00:11:30.55\00:11:32.55
The assumption is that rules
equal restriction and so, I
00:11:32.55\00:11:37.73
affirm the liberty part,
but I think that rules don't
00:11:37.73\00:11:40.96
necessarily equate
00:11:40.96\00:11:42.46
to restriction.
00:11:42.46\00:11:43.70
I think rules
protect and enable liberty.
00:11:43.70\00:11:48.47
So, from that concept, it's a
good thing that God has a lot,
00:11:48.47\00:11:54.64
I'll continue, I'll affirm, God
has a lot of rules, I believe
00:11:54.64\00:11:57.65
that.
00:11:57.65\00:11:58.85
Now, clearly, all of his rules
can be summed up into basic
00:11:58.85\00:12:02.18
principles, love, you
know, love is the rule.
00:12:02.18\00:12:05.22
>>DAVID: Did you say two basic
principles, or just in basic
00:12:05.22\00:12:07.06
principles?
00:12:07.06\00:12:08.22
>>TY: Well, he meant, love
to God, love to human beings.
00:12:08.22\00:12:10.39
>>DAVID: Okay, so, love.
00:12:10.39\00:12:11.63
>>JEFFREY: So we can say even,
you know, everything that there
00:12:11.63\00:12:14.30
is to know about life and how
to relate to one another and so
00:12:14.30\00:12:17.20
forth hangs on these two
principles, love God and love
00:12:17.20\00:12:20.50
your neighbor.
00:12:20.50\00:12:21.60
That's true, but from that
flows a whole, like, world of
00:12:21.60\00:12:26.37
-- >>DAVID: A pantheon.
00:12:26.37\00:12:27.54
>>JEFFREY: Yeah, of
rules, like for example.
00:12:27.54\00:12:28.71
Let me illustrate.
00:12:28.71\00:12:30.68
>>DAVID: Or multiplicity.
00:12:30.68\00:12:31.55
Anyways, keep going.
00:12:31.55\00:12:32.78
>>JEFFREY: Relationships need
to be protected, essentially God
00:12:32.78\00:12:37.55
has as many rules as are
necessary to protect the liberty
00:12:37.55\00:12:43.06
which we enjoy in
our relationship with him
00:12:43.06\00:12:46.26
>>DAVID: That's a
great way to say it.
00:12:46.26\00:12:47.50
>>JEFFREY: If you look at the 10
Commandments, for example, I can
00:12:47.50\00:12:49.50
just couch the my
argument in this sense.
00:12:49.50\00:12:51.23
Are the 10 Commandments 10
rules or are they 10 promises?
00:12:51.23\00:12:57.87
And I already know what
you guys think about that.
00:12:57.87\00:12:59.61
The 10 Commandments
are 10 promises, right?
00:12:59.61\00:13:02.11
I have liberated you, I have
rescued you from Egypt, from
00:13:02.11\00:13:05.11
bondage, you're free, therefore,
you shall not kill, you shall
00:13:05.11\00:13:09.25
not steal, and so forth, we're
familiar with this concept.
00:13:09.25\00:13:10.99
So, if you were to couch every
rule in the bible, every rule
00:13:10.99\00:13:15.39
from God in that context, do you
want God to have a lot of those
00:13:15.39\00:13:19.76
or a little bit of those?
00:13:19.76\00:13:21.76
>>DAVID: Promises, you mean?
00:13:21.76\00:13:23.13
>>JEFFREY: Yeah.
00:13:23.13\00:13:23.73
If his rules
00:13:23.73\00:13:24.73
-- >>TY: Good point, Jeffrey.
00:13:24.73\00:13:26.30
>>JEFFREY: If his commandments
are promises, do you want a lot
00:13:26.30\00:13:30.34
of those or a
little bit of those?
00:13:30.34\00:13:31.81
>>DAVID: I hate it
when he makes sense.
00:13:31.81\00:13:34.11
>>TY: That's good.
00:13:34.11\00:13:34.88
>>JEFFREY: I
want a lot of those.
00:13:34.88\00:13:36.64
>>TY: I want a
lot of those, too.
00:13:36.64\00:13:38.45
>>JEFFREY: I think it's
mutually, it's complimentary,
00:13:38.45\00:13:40.95
what we're saying.
00:13:40.95\00:13:42.18
>>TY: Yeah, basically, you just
agreed with everything that I
00:13:42.18\00:13:44.39
said earlier, but you put it
00:13:44.39\00:13:47.42
-- >>JEFFREY:
Not quite, but okay.
00:13:47.42\00:13:48.92
>>DAVID: You know what my
favorite thing, Jeffrey said a
00:13:48.92\00:13:50.46
lot there, my favorite thing, by
far, that you said, and I think
00:13:50.46\00:13:53.16
it was a stroke of clarity and
brilliance is that God has as
00:13:53.16\00:13:57.07
many rules as are necessary.
00:13:57.07\00:14:01.40
>>TY: There's another
way to articulate that.
00:14:01.40\00:14:02.60
>>DAVID: Good for you, that just
flowed right off the tongue.
00:14:02.60\00:14:05.17
>>TY: Yeah, that was
beautiful, how about this?
00:14:05.17\00:14:06.68
God always says yes
unless he has to say no.
00:14:06.68\00:14:11.78
Right?
00:14:11.78\00:14:13.92
And there's scripture for that.
00:14:13.92\00:14:15.58
What about
Deuteronomy chapter 5, verse 29?
00:14:15.58\00:14:18.59
Deuteronomy chapter 5, verse 29.
00:14:18.59\00:14:23.32
This is an interesting thing
that God has said to his people
00:14:23.32\00:14:29.43
and the backdrop is that there
has been a lot that's been said
00:14:29.43\00:14:33.20
to them, a lot of
rules, we could say.
00:14:33.20\00:14:35.90
Chapter 5, verse 29, and this
is God speaking, oh, that they,
00:14:35.90\00:14:40.71
that's God's people, oh, that
they had such a heart in them
00:14:40.71\00:14:44.95
that they would fear me and
always keep all my commandments,
00:14:44.95\00:14:48.95
plural, so there's a lot of
them, that it might be well with
00:14:48.95\00:14:54.36
them and with
their children forever.
00:14:54.36\00:14:55.96
So, God is
interested in our flourishing.
00:14:55.96\00:15:00.13
God wants us to thrive.
00:15:00.13\00:15:02.36
God is interested in us being
well, our wellbeing is what he
00:15:02.36\00:15:07.40
has at heart, and he's saying,
oh, that you would obey my
00:15:07.40\00:15:12.14
commandments so that your life
would be elevated in quality,
00:15:12.14\00:15:17.51
not diminish in quality.
00:15:17.51\00:15:18.75
God's law isn't a prison that
you have to pace in, God's law
00:15:18.75\00:15:23.59
is a vast field of freedom where
there are beautiful things to
00:15:23.59\00:15:29.36
partake of within the parameters
of his love, his righteousness,
00:15:29.36\00:15:35.33
his law.
00:15:35.33\00:15:36.43
So, God's law is a good
thing, it's a beautiful thing.
00:15:36.43\00:15:40.47
One way that's been helpful for
me to view this is that there's
00:15:40.47\00:15:44.41
the one and that's love.
00:15:44.41\00:15:47.18
There's one rule.
00:15:47.18\00:15:48.81
And that's love, but then, the
one is manifested it what we can
00:15:48.81\00:15:55.08
call the two.
00:15:55.08\00:15:56.05
Love God, love your
fellow human beings.
00:15:56.05\00:15:59.72
And then there's the 10, so are
the 10 taking a sharp left or
00:15:59.72\00:16:04.56
right turn away
from the one or the two?
00:16:04.56\00:16:06.06
No, they are a further
enunciation of the two and the
00:16:06.06\00:16:13.84
one, right?
00:16:13.84\00:16:15.04
And then, you can go this
far, then there's, I don't know,
00:16:15.04\00:16:18.14
hundreds, the Jewish rabbi said
613 laws that they had come up
00:16:18.14\00:16:25.51
with from scripture.
00:16:25.51\00:16:26.58
So, then there's the
100s and what are those 100s?
00:16:26.58\00:16:29.28
Let's just call the 100s
the entire scripture, the whole
00:16:29.28\00:16:33.59
bible.
00:16:33.59\00:16:34.82
And Jesus came along and he said
all the law and the prophets are
00:16:34.82\00:16:38.89
summarized in the two,
which are summarized in the one.
00:16:38.89\00:16:44.23
So, does God
have a lot of rules?
00:16:44.23\00:16:46.87
Yes and no.
00:16:46.87\00:16:48.74
>>JEFFREY: Yes and no.
00:16:48.74\00:16:49.97
>>TY: He has one rule that if
you think it through and act it
00:16:49.97\00:16:55.04
out in all your relationships,
is manifested in many.
00:16:55.04\00:16:59.28
God has one, he has many,
but all of those many are,
00:16:59.28\00:17:02.92
essentially, one principle.
00:17:02.92\00:17:05.55
>>JEFFREY: Yeah, because the
fundamental rule, if it's love,
00:17:05.55\00:17:07.66
love is so profound, so grand,
that we don't have the capacity
00:17:07.66\00:17:12.69
to really process it and
therefore, it necessitates help,
00:17:12.69\00:17:18.53
we need help in
processing what love looks like.
00:17:18.53\00:17:22.20
So, every single injunction,
every single, every commandment
00:17:22.20\00:17:26.78
and every rule, every whatever
in scripture is there, it's
00:17:26.78\00:17:29.88
calculated to help us process
what does love look like to God
00:17:29.88\00:17:34.68
and to one another?
00:17:34.68\00:17:35.92
>>DAVID: The way that I taught
this idea to my children, it's
00:17:35.92\00:17:39.82
fairly rudimentary, maybe even
a little, you know, it's for a
00:17:39.82\00:17:42.86
child, is I explained to them
that you have a body of a trunk,
00:17:42.86\00:17:47.40
one trunk, and out of that
trunk come your two arms, right?
00:17:47.40\00:17:53.10
So, you have, here's the one,
and here's the two arms, and at
00:17:53.10\00:17:55.54
the end of your two
arms are the ten fingers.
00:17:55.54\00:17:57.07
So, I said, just remember this,
boys, you were made to love and
00:17:57.07\00:18:01.64
we use our arms to love God with
our hands, with our actions, to
00:18:01.64\00:18:05.05
love God with all our heart,
mind, and soul, and to love our
00:18:05.05\00:18:07.25
neighbor as ourselves, and
in case you wanna remember what
00:18:07.25\00:18:10.29
those specific instances are,
there's the 10 Commandments,
00:18:10.29\00:18:13.59
this is how you love, this
is how you love on the vertical
00:18:13.59\00:18:17.36
love, this is how you love on
the horizontal level, and that's
00:18:17.36\00:18:20.00
just been very helpful as a sort
of pedagogical device, to say,
00:18:20.00\00:18:22.93
hey, boys, is it the one?
00:18:22.93\00:18:24.67
You know, you're mistreating
your brother, oh, what's going
00:18:24.67\00:18:26.87
on, have you, is something
wrong with one of your arms?
00:18:26.87\00:18:29.70
Or there was dishonesty.
00:18:29.70\00:18:31.81
Is there something
wrong in one of your fingers?
00:18:31.81\00:18:33.71
So, I just found
that to be very helpful.
00:18:33.71\00:18:36.34
>>TY: So, as we conclude this
first part of the conversation
00:18:36.34\00:18:39.15
and take a break, I think
we're on the same page, Jeffrey.
00:18:39.15\00:18:44.79
>>DAVID: Well, at
least we're in the same book.
00:18:44.79\00:18:46.29
>>TY: We're in the
same book, that's right.
00:18:46.29\00:18:48.16
Let's take a break and we'll
come right back and continue.
00:18:48.16\00:18:51.16
[Music]
00:18:51.16\00:18:56.87
>>The bible is a big book.
00:18:56.87\00:18:58.80
It's composed of 66 smaller
books, written by more than 40
00:18:58.80\00:19:03.17
different authors.
00:19:03.17\00:19:05.37
It's easy to get bogged down
in all the genealogies, ancient
00:19:05.37\00:19:09.21
history and intersecting
characters with unpronounceable
00:19:09.21\00:19:12.61
names.
00:19:12.61\00:19:13.85
And yet, the bible is full
of rich and powerful truths that
00:19:13.85\00:19:18.45
all of us need to understand.
00:19:18.45\00:19:21.46
Wouldn't you love to have an
experienced tour guide take you
00:19:21.46\00:19:24.69
on a step-by-step journey
through some of the most vital
00:19:24.69\00:19:28.20
and beautiful truths
contained in the bible?
00:19:28.20\00:19:30.87
Well, now, it's here.
00:19:30.87\00:19:32.17
It's called Truth Link.
00:19:32.17\00:19:34.47
Truth Link is a groundbreaking
new series of easy to understand
00:19:34.47\00:19:39.57
bible study guides that
thousands of people around the
00:19:39.57\00:19:43.48
world are raving about.
00:19:43.48\00:19:45.28
Why all the excitement?
00:19:45.28\00:19:47.15
Because Truth Link
systematically unfolds 27 life
00:19:47.15\00:19:52.79
transforming biblical
topics, but not as a list of dry
00:19:52.79\00:19:57.56
theological facts.
00:19:57.56\00:19:58.99
Rather, Truth Link takes
you on an engaging, biblical
00:19:58.99\00:20:04.07
expedition, demonstrating how
every truth of scripture reveals
00:20:04.07\00:20:09.00
some facet of God's
beautiful character.
00:20:09.00\00:20:12.64
Truth Link isn't just
information, it's a spiritual
00:20:12.64\00:20:17.35
journey that will
radically impact your life.
00:20:17.35\00:20:20.22
We would really love for you
to have these bible study guides
00:20:20.22\00:20:24.45
because we know they
will be a blessing to you.
00:20:24.45\00:20:28.09
You can get them by visiting
truthlink.org or by calling
00:20:28.09\00:20:33.46
541-988-3333.
00:20:33.46\00:20:38.33
[Music]
00:20:38.33\00:20:46.37
>>TY: I'm under the distinct
impression that God is primarily
00:20:46.37\00:20:51.38
about liberty but the sin
problem has created a situation
00:20:51.38\00:20:56.52
where he needs to put in place
protective measures in order to
00:20:56.52\00:21:02.16
bring us back into the
kind of liberty that we need.
00:21:02.16\00:21:04.86
Jeffrey had brought up, in our
previous conversation, that when
00:21:04.86\00:21:09.00
we were talking about the death
of Christ on the cross, that we
00:21:09.00\00:21:12.77
needed to explore
the nature of sin.
00:21:12.77\00:21:15.14
I like that language.
00:21:15.14\00:21:16.64
I'd like to suggest that
we spend a few minutes talking
00:21:16.64\00:21:20.21
about the nature of law, which
is the opposite of sin, the
00:21:20.21\00:21:25.21
nature of law, and more
specifically, the nature of
00:21:25.21\00:21:27.88
freedom.
00:21:27.88\00:21:28.72
What does freedom look like?
00:21:28.72\00:21:32.29
Because David pointed out that
if he were to talk to some of
00:21:32.29\00:21:34.96
his family members who are
unbelievers and ask them, is God
00:21:34.96\00:21:40.60
restrictive, does
God have a lot of rules?
00:21:40.60\00:21:42.30
They'd say, of course he
does, just look at your life.
00:21:42.30\00:21:44.20
>>DAVID: And
we've all heard that.
00:21:44.20\00:21:45.57
>>TY: Yeah, we've all
heard that, it's not, it's a
00:21:45.57\00:21:47.27
prevailing idea out there that
God is super restrictive, he has
00:21:47.27\00:21:50.71
a lot of rules, if I give my
life to God, it's gonna cramp my
00:21:50.71\00:21:54.41
style, it's gonna lessen
my pleasure, not increase my
00:21:54.41\00:21:58.91
pleasure.
00:21:58.91\00:22:00.18
So, when I say we should
talk about the nature of law and
00:22:00.18\00:22:04.75
freedom, what I mean by that
is when people are engaged, for
00:22:04.75\00:22:10.63
example, in committing sin, is
their capacity for pleasure and
00:22:10.63\00:22:18.67
freedom lessening?
00:22:18.67\00:22:21.34
Or is it increasing?
00:22:21.34\00:22:23.17
>>JAMES: It's lessening.
00:22:23.17\00:22:23.71
>>TY: It's lessening.
00:22:23.71\00:22:24.67
>>JAMES: I was
speaking from my own experience.
00:22:24.67\00:22:26.04
>>TY: It's actually lessening.
00:22:26.04\00:22:28.18
>>JAMES: I was addicted to sin,
so I'm addicted to those actions
00:22:28.18\00:22:33.18
that I know, as the Holy Spirit
is speaking to me, as we talked
00:22:33.18\00:22:36.18
about the conscience is speaking
to me, I know and really want to
00:22:36.18\00:22:40.42
be free from, I wanna, I know
that I shouldn't be doing these
00:22:40.42\00:22:43.06
things and I wanna be free from
doing these things, but I can't
00:22:43.06\00:22:45.43
find freedom and liberty.
00:22:45.43\00:22:46.63
I can't find whatever it is
within me to be free from those
00:22:46.63\00:22:50.83
things, which, at first, I
thought were actually a mark of
00:22:50.83\00:22:54.90
freedom, indication of liberty
just to party and do whatever I
00:22:54.90\00:22:58.04
wanted to do with my life, but
now I find that those things are
00:22:58.04\00:23:01.34
distasteful to me, the results,
the environment, the amount of
00:23:01.34\00:23:04.85
time and finance it takes
to have that in my life is, I'm
00:23:04.85\00:23:12.22
repulsed by it, but I
find myself addicted to it.
00:23:12.22\00:23:14.59
>>JEFFREY: I just wanted to
follow up on your question, too,
00:23:14.59\00:23:19.23
you asked, correct me if I'm
wrong, you asked, in continuing
00:23:19.23\00:23:24.70
to sin, is liberty increased
or decreased, or diminished?
00:23:24.70\00:23:29.27
We can argue that liberty
is diminished, freedom is
00:23:29.27\00:23:33.51
diminished because sin cripples
our capacity to be truly human,
00:23:33.51\00:23:37.65
right?
00:23:37.65\00:23:38.88
So, God created us, God created
the human race and he designed
00:23:38.88\00:23:44.29
us in a certain way to function
and a certain way to relate to
00:23:44.29\00:23:47.46
life and to reality.
00:23:47.46\00:23:48.86
As soon as sin comes into
the picture, there are things
00:23:48.86\00:23:51.89
introduced to the human
experience that were never
00:23:51.89\00:23:54.36
intended to be there.
00:23:54.36\00:23:55.50
Fear, guilt, shame, so
forth, and so, every form of sin
00:23:55.50\00:24:01.90
cripples our ability to be
truly human in the way we were
00:24:01.90\00:24:07.41
designed to be, and in
that sense, sin is restrictive,
00:24:07.41\00:24:12.08
because we're being restricted.
00:24:12.08\00:24:14.18
Because there's still things,
there's freedom from, and
00:24:14.18\00:24:17.22
freedom to, right?
00:24:17.22\00:24:19.29
And what we're normally, most
people are familiar with freedom
00:24:19.29\00:24:22.26
from, right?
00:24:22.26\00:24:23.49
I was, I'm free from such and
such, but we rarely speak on, I
00:24:23.49\00:24:29.76
have freedom to.
00:24:29.76\00:24:32.13
And I think that's more
powerful than this over here.
00:24:32.13\00:24:36.14
>>DAVID: Let me
speak directly to that.
00:24:36.14\00:24:37.64
On my Twitter account, of all
of the tweets, I've been doing
00:24:37.64\00:24:41.41
Twitter now for, whatever, a
year, of all of the tweets that
00:24:41.41\00:24:43.91
I've tweeted that have gotten
the most either favorites or
00:24:43.91\00:24:46.85
retweets, it was
this tweet, you ready?
00:24:46.85\00:24:49.92
Freedom is not being able to do
what you want to do, it's being
00:24:49.92\00:24:55.42
able to do what
you were created to do.
00:24:55.42\00:24:58.09
>>TY: Beautiful.
00:24:58.09\00:24:59.66
>>DAVID: In other words,
the point is, that is deeply
00:24:59.66\00:25:01.23
resonant with people,
they say, well, that's it.
00:25:01.23\00:25:03.13
Freedom is not just getting to
do whatever I want because you
00:25:03.13\00:25:05.93
are free, free to be enslaved.
00:25:05.93\00:25:07.77
You were free to get addicted,
you were free to be enslaved,
00:25:07.77\00:25:11.21
you were free, but if real
freedom is understood in the
00:25:11.21\00:25:15.74
context of the 10 Commandments
as well as in the Garden of
00:25:15.74\00:25:17.81
Eden, you are free to be
what God created you to be.
00:25:17.81\00:25:22.82
That's freedom.
00:25:22.82\00:25:23.95
>>JEFFREY: That's huge.
00:25:23.95\00:25:25.19
>>TY: Well, think about this,
let's speak of specifics, then,
00:25:25.19\00:25:29.02
imagine two scenarios,
one person is conducting their
00:25:29.02\00:25:35.56
business affairs and pursuing
their career by dishonesty,
00:25:35.56\00:25:42.10
lying when they find
it advantageous to their
00:25:42.10\00:25:45.67
advancement through the company
or through the profession that
00:25:45.67\00:25:50.05
they're pursuing.
00:25:50.05\00:25:51.28
People begin to pick up on that
violation of the law of honesty
00:25:51.28\00:25:58.25
and what naturally happens?
00:25:58.25\00:26:01.19
The people that that individual
is endeavoring to do business
00:26:01.19\00:26:05.39
with begin emotionally to shut
down and to pull back for lack
00:26:05.39\00:26:10.80
of trust.
00:26:10.80\00:26:11.87
So, trust is receding
from this individual and he is
00:26:11.87\00:26:17.67
increasingly alone in his
pursuits for advancement in
00:26:17.67\00:26:23.18
whatever his
profession happens to be.
00:26:23.18\00:26:24.75
Versus on the other hand,
imagine a person who, through
00:26:24.75\00:26:28.75
devoted honesty builds up in the
relationships of their business
00:26:28.75\00:26:35.49
affairs, the distinct impression
that this guy can be depended
00:26:35.49\00:26:39.49
on, this guy tells the
truth even to his hurt.
00:26:39.49\00:26:42.30
Even if it's going to be to his
disadvantage, this guy is not
00:26:42.30\00:26:48.64
going to take advantage, people
are leaning into that person,
00:26:48.64\00:26:51.94
they're drawing close.
00:26:51.94\00:26:53.44
They want to do business.
00:26:53.44\00:26:54.54
So, this guy begins to
experience a larger horizon of
00:26:54.54\00:27:00.45
business interactions by virtue
of honesty, which produces
00:27:00.45\00:27:05.09
trust, his freedom is growing.
00:27:05.09\00:27:08.62
This person
00:27:08.62\00:27:10.06
-- >>DAVID: He's free to do
business with more people than
00:27:10.06\00:27:11.46
he otherwise would've been.
00:27:11.46\00:27:12.56
>>TY: This person is lessening
those who trust him and
00:27:12.56\00:27:15.50
therefore, diminishing his
capacity for doing business.
00:27:15.50\00:27:18.23
Isn't that how it works?
00:27:18.23\00:27:21.00
>>DAVID: I think that's exactly
what is meant when the bible
00:27:21.00\00:27:23.64
says that God is not mocked,
whatever a man sows, he will
00:27:23.64\00:27:27.48
also reap.
00:27:27.48\00:27:28.54
Galatians, is that 6?
00:27:28.54\00:27:29.18
Galatians 6?
00:27:29.18\00:27:29.88
>>TY: Yes.
00:27:29.88\00:27:30.81
>>DAVID: Be not
deceived, God is not mocked.
00:27:30.81\00:27:31.98
It's saying, if you, it's
almost, and I wanna be careful
00:27:31.98\00:27:35.28
here, but it's almost like, not
identically, but it's like the
00:27:35.28\00:27:39.49
karma thing in Hinduism.
00:27:39.49\00:27:41.26
You know, the karma thing says,
you do a good deed and then that
00:27:41.26\00:27:44.86
comes back around
through an actual karmic cycle.
00:27:44.86\00:27:47.76
Now, we're not, of course,
advocating that, but the idea
00:27:47.76\00:27:50.23
that you can't just sow
dishonesty and expect to reap
00:27:50.23\00:27:52.93
trust and freedom and
people's good will and positive
00:27:52.93\00:27:58.51
relationships, but the converse
is also true, if you do sow
00:27:58.51\00:28:02.98
happiness, trust,
freedom, generosity, kindness,
00:28:02.98\00:28:07.25
compassion, you will reap,
that's the fruit that you will
00:28:07.25\00:28:11.39
eat.
00:28:11.39\00:28:12.62
In other words, in some ways,
the people that formulated, I'm
00:28:12.62\00:28:14.89
sure, going back millennia, that
formulated the basic idea of
00:28:14.89\00:28:19.33
karma said, hm, what
goes around comes around.
00:28:19.33\00:28:22.40
We saw, he acted like this and
then that came back and got him,
00:28:22.40\00:28:25.40
and they're thinking, oh, this
is a principle in the universe,
00:28:25.40\00:28:28.14
and in that sense, it is.
00:28:28.14\00:28:29.40
If you create an
environment, right?
00:28:29.40\00:28:33.61
Okay, like in the
Garden of Eden, they created an
00:28:33.61\00:28:35.21
environment where they ended up
having fear, shame, and guilt,
00:28:35.21\00:28:39.25
by virtue of the seeds that
had been sown in their life.
00:28:39.25\00:28:43.75
>>TY: Another
example would be marriage.
00:28:43.75\00:28:48.59
Okay, see if this makes sense.
00:28:48.59\00:28:51.73
In the 10 Commandments, one of
them says, you shall not commit
00:28:51.73\00:28:55.70
adultery.
00:28:55.70\00:28:56.90
Now, you can perceive that,
depending on how you're looking
00:28:56.90\00:29:00.04
at it, as a restriction that
will lessen your capacity for
00:29:00.04\00:29:04.57
pleasure, you can look at
that and say, you mean one?
00:29:04.57\00:29:11.01
One sexual partner?
00:29:11.01\00:29:13.55
Just one?
00:29:13.55\00:29:15.05
I mean, that seems
rather narrow minded.
00:29:15.05\00:29:18.15
Or you can look at it like
this, that sex is more than the
00:29:18.15\00:29:23.19
passing pleasures of sin
and that sex is more than the
00:29:23.19\00:29:27.96
physical pleasure, there's an
emotional component, there's a
00:29:27.96\00:29:32.07
spiritual component, and if you
stay with one person, you cross
00:29:32.07\00:29:38.64
certain thresholds, where
trust, security, you start to,
00:29:38.64\00:29:44.25
intimacy, yeah.
00:29:44.25\00:29:46.08
>>DAVID: Knowing that this is
a human and this is a person, is
00:29:46.08\00:29:50.62
the mother of my children or the
father of my, there's a, keep
00:29:50.62\00:29:54.46
going, I don't wanna stop you,
but I hear what you're saying.
00:29:54.46\00:29:56.49
>>TY: No, you're adding to it.
00:29:56.49\00:29:57.59
The fact is that the
capacity for pleasure expands in
00:29:57.59\00:30:03.10
monogamy.
00:30:03.10\00:30:04.33
One man, one woman, for life,
experiences transitions in their
00:30:04.33\00:30:11.71
experience where they become
more and more secure, more and
00:30:11.71\00:30:15.81
more trusting, and they're just
at peace in the relationship and
00:30:15.81\00:30:19.95
they enjoy one another so much,
whereas what we're being told by
00:30:19.95\00:30:23.82
social scientists is that
the breaking point for most
00:30:23.82\00:30:27.96
marriages is
between 7 and 10 years.
00:30:27.96\00:30:30.39
People start to feel like they
can't sustain the relationship
00:30:30.39\00:30:34.93
and that it's going to
fall apart, and if you end the
00:30:34.93\00:30:38.87
relationship at the 7-10 year
mark, you cut off your potential
00:30:38.87\00:30:43.94
for pleasure you didn't
even know was around the corner,
00:30:43.94\00:30:46.37
because if you get through the
struggles together of identity
00:30:46.37\00:30:49.88
and you continue to grow
together, you'll cross a line
00:30:49.88\00:30:54.02
where you've bonded on a deeper
level because the conflicts gave
00:30:54.02\00:30:58.65
way to trust and you're under
the distinctive impression, you
00:30:58.65\00:31:02.22
know what, you're
gonna stay with me.
00:31:02.22\00:31:04.73
I've violated
you, you forgave me.
00:31:04.73\00:31:09.30
>>DAVID: I was
unkind, I was impatient.
00:31:09.30\00:31:10.87
>>TY: So, now, I trust you
more and I'm more secure, and it
00:31:10.87\00:31:14.74
begins to reciprocate on new
levels, so the pleasure quotient
00:31:14.74\00:31:18.24
just goes off the charts and you
end up having an experience with
00:31:18.24\00:31:22.31
another human being and that's
what God has in mind, God is
00:31:22.31\00:31:25.21
saying, listen, the only reason
I'm telling you to do this that
00:31:25.21\00:31:31.65
or the other thing is because
within those rules, within those
00:31:31.65\00:31:37.39
laws, there's greater capacity
for peace and happiness and
00:31:37.39\00:31:41.16
pleasure and satisfaction.
00:31:41.16\00:31:42.73
>>DAVID: What I love about what
you said, I love everything that
00:31:42.73\00:31:46.17
you said there, Ty, but what I
really love is, I think there is
00:31:46.17\00:31:49.67
a fundamental, just take
sexuality, this is not the only
00:31:49.67\00:31:52.07
kind of pleasure in marriage,
there's lots of pleasures in
00:31:52.07\00:31:54.51
marriage, but
let's just take that one.
00:31:54.51\00:31:56.01
Because that is one that
has been hijacked by culture.
00:31:56.01\00:31:59.18
That's one that's been hijacked
by the world in which we live.
00:31:59.18\00:32:02.18
Hyper sensual,
hypersexualized culture.
00:32:02.18\00:32:05.89
The pornification of culture,
that's the world we live in.
00:32:05.89\00:32:08.42
And what, to me, the greatest
danger of porn, the greatest
00:32:08.42\00:32:12.69
danger of this
hypersexualization of culture is
00:32:12.69\00:32:14.93
that it hinges on a fundamental
lie that sex is primarily
00:32:14.93\00:32:21.37
bodily.
00:32:21.37\00:32:22.80
It's bodily, it's physical, it's
between one body and another
00:32:22.80\00:32:27.18
body.
00:32:27.18\00:32:28.31
that is not true.
00:32:28.31\00:32:29.51
That is actually the
dehumanization of the sexual
00:32:29.51\00:32:32.95
experience.
00:32:32.95\00:32:33.75
It's one person
and another person.
00:32:33.75\00:32:37.12
And somebody that you just
met in that bar or got hooked up
00:32:37.12\00:32:39.22
with at this party or whatever,
you don't know who that person,
00:32:39.22\00:32:41.56
what are their names, what
are their fears, what are their
00:32:41.56\00:32:43.69
struggles, what are their hopes,
what are their dreams, what is
00:32:43.69\00:32:47.00
all of that?
00:32:47.00\00:32:48.10
And when you get to know a
person and you realize this
00:32:48.10\00:32:50.57
person loves me and I love this
person, then you have, as you
00:32:50.57\00:32:54.30
said, not just the physical
element, which is a beautiful
00:32:54.30\00:32:56.47
thing, but then you have
the social element, you have the
00:32:56.47\00:33:00.08
psychological element, you have
the emotional element, you have
00:33:00.08\00:33:02.81
this whole beautiful package,
and then, that's why you go
00:33:02.81\00:33:07.18
through the checkout counters
and they'll have, you know,
00:33:07.18\00:33:09.48
Cosmopolitan magazine or Women's
Health or Men's Health or
00:33:09.48\00:33:11.55
whatever, and it's you know,
new sexual positions, new sexual
00:33:11.55\00:33:14.66
pleasures, it's
almost like, really?
00:33:14.66\00:33:16.79
All of that?
00:33:16.79\00:33:17.99
It's Much Ado About Nothing
because it's like they're eating
00:33:17.99\00:33:22.06
the outside of the orange
but never getting to the point.
00:33:22.06\00:33:25.50
They're missing the point
and the point is complete trust
00:33:25.50\00:33:30.37
-- >>TY: What about the orange?
00:33:30.37\00:33:31.61
>>JAMES: It's even worse than
that, it's like addictive food,
00:33:31.61\00:33:35.14
it's like the fast food, it's
like the junk food that we eat,
00:33:35.14\00:33:38.25
it's so addictive and
yet, it's so unsatisfying.
00:33:38.25\00:33:43.08
It doesn't satisfy the deepest
need, it doesn't give your body
00:33:43.08\00:33:47.09
the nutrients it needs, so you
don't get the nutrients, so you
00:33:47.09\00:33:50.03
need more, you need more, you
need more, you need, everyone
00:33:50.03\00:33:52.26
needs more, well,
of course we need more.
00:33:52.26\00:33:53.63
We've gotta have it, we've gotta
have it, we've gotta have it.
00:33:53.63\00:33:55.50
>>DAVID: Because they're looking
for something, that can't give
00:33:55.50\00:33:57.50
you what you're looking for.
00:33:57.50\00:33:58.73
>>JAMES: I still remember the
day that I started eating whole
00:33:58.73\00:34:01.80
wheat bread.
00:34:01.80\00:34:02.50
I used to love
00:34:02.50\00:34:05.91
-- >>DAVID: That is not
what I thought he was gonna say.
00:34:05.91\00:34:07.21
>>JEFFREY: The
ultimate transition.
00:34:07.21\00:34:08.41
>>JAMES: I used to love white
bread and I would take that
00:34:08.41\00:34:10.31
Wonder Bread and I would just
roll it up in a little ball, you
00:34:10.31\00:34:12.21
know, I would just pop
it up and pop, pop, pop.
00:34:12.21\00:34:14.72
And I could eat half a loaf.
00:34:14.72\00:34:19.05
I could just pop it down.
00:34:19.05\00:34:21.29
And I remember when I started
eating whole wheat bread, I
00:34:21.29\00:34:23.12
remember when I ate my first
piece of whole wheat bread,
00:34:23.12\00:34:24.93
which I didn't like at the time,
now I love whole wheat bread, I
00:34:24.93\00:34:27.03
can't stand white bread.
00:34:27.03\00:34:28.23
But anyway, I ate that thing and
I thought, man, this is dense,
00:34:28.23\00:34:32.23
man
00:34:32.23\00:34:33.07
-- >>TY: How long
do I have to chew?
00:34:33.07\00:34:34.04
>>JAMES: And after I
was finished, there was a
00:34:34.04\00:34:36.67
satisfaction that I was like, I
don't even really need a lot of
00:34:36.67\00:34:40.51
this, and I think that's
the same thing in relationships.
00:34:40.51\00:34:42.94
The real thing is 3-fold.
00:34:42.94\00:34:46.18
>>JEFFREY: All the nutrients
were there, they weren't
00:34:46.18\00:34:48.38
separated.
00:34:48.38\00:34:49.58
>>JAMES: All the components
are there and there's something
00:34:49.58\00:34:50.72
satisfying about that that
actually guards against the
00:34:50.72\00:34:53.66
addictive desire for
sex in these other areas.
00:34:53.66\00:34:57.23
>>DAVID: I'm reading a book
right now called Salt, Sugar,
00:34:57.23\00:34:58.93
Fat.
00:34:58.93\00:34:59.76
Fascinating book,
highly recommend it.
00:34:59.76\00:35:01.20
I recommend it, just wanna say
to the viewers as well, Salt,
00:35:01.20\00:35:04.70
Sugar, Fat, read it.
00:35:04.70\00:35:05.93
Fascinating book, and basically,
what the book is about is how
00:35:05.93\00:35:12.47
the food companies, okay, the
big food companies in the world
00:35:12.47\00:35:15.61
today are in the same place
right now, the very same place
00:35:15.61\00:35:19.58
that the tobacco companies were
in 25-30 years ago, where people
00:35:19.58\00:35:23.65
began to say, hey, wait
a minute, isn't there some
00:35:23.65\00:35:25.52
culpability here with
the tobacco companies.
00:35:25.52\00:35:27.56
The research says that tobacco
does this, we know that it's
00:35:27.56\00:35:30.66
addictive, and these are
the health problems that are
00:35:30.66\00:35:33.66
resulting.
00:35:33.66\00:35:34.83
And there was this gigantic,
I can remember seeing those
00:35:34.83\00:35:36.33
trials, the Senate hearings and
others where the big tobacco,
00:35:36.33\00:35:40.27
Phillip J Morris and RJ
Reynolds, they're all lined up
00:35:40.27\00:35:43.24
and they're saying, no, no,
no, and the senators and the
00:35:43.24\00:35:45.77
congressmen and other are asking
the hard questions and we know
00:35:45.77\00:35:48.18
the outcome of that.
00:35:48.18\00:35:49.41
There's the labelling, there was
billions of dollars in lawsuits,
00:35:49.41\00:35:53.28
and not just that, but sort of
the perception of the prestige
00:35:53.28\00:35:57.49
that was associated with the,
you know, the cigarette, that
00:35:57.49\00:36:00.79
just, it started to come down.
00:36:00.79\00:36:02.66
>>JAMES: But also the chemicals
that they were putting into the
00:36:02.66\00:36:05.09
tobacco to make it addictive.
00:36:05.09\00:36:06.96
>>DAVID: Right, so the food
companies, the purpose of this
00:36:06.96\00:36:10.07
book is to say, the food
companies are in that same place
00:36:10.07\00:36:12.20
right now because they know that
if they add this much salt, this
00:36:12.20\00:36:15.14
much sugar, this much fat, they
are creating a product that is
00:36:15.14\00:36:19.14
two things, addictive.
00:36:19.14\00:36:20.54
There's a whole new study, a
whole new science that food is
00:36:20.54\00:36:23.48
as addictive.
00:36:23.48\00:36:24.55
Certain foods can be
scientifically engineered to be
00:36:24.55\00:36:26.95
as addictive as
cigarettes ever were.
00:36:26.95\00:36:28.68
And deeply harmful to the body.
00:36:28.68\00:36:32.49
Obesity is an epidemic right
now, diabetes is an epidemic
00:36:32.49\00:36:35.09
right now, the list goes on.
00:36:35.09\00:36:37.09
Inactivity is epidemic right
now, and the point of the book
00:36:37.09\00:36:40.10
is basically this, that
people are eating, like you were
00:36:40.10\00:36:44.30
saying, they just love
their Oreos and they love their
00:36:44.30\00:36:46.00
Doritos and they
love this comfort food.
00:36:46.00\00:36:50.24
>>TY: It's not even food,
though, let's not call it food.
00:36:50.24\00:36:52.47
>>DAVID: Food-like substance.
00:36:52.47\00:36:53.71
>>TY: Food in quote marks.
00:36:53.71\00:36:54.94
>>DAVID: It's food, okay, well,
if that's not food, okay, are
00:36:54.94\00:36:57.45
you ready for this?
00:36:57.45\00:36:58.65
Then what's taking place in
bedrooms all around the world?
00:36:58.65\00:37:02.72
That's not sex.
00:37:02.72\00:37:03.52
That's not God's ideal for sex.
00:37:03.52\00:37:04.69
I don't know what that is.
00:37:04.69\00:37:05.95
That's two bodies getting
together, whatever, but that is
00:37:05.95\00:37:08.26
not what scripture is speaking
about when it says that a man
00:37:08.26\00:37:11.69
and a woman will come together
emotionally, psychologically,
00:37:11.69\00:37:16.20
personally, in int
00:37:16.20\00:37:17.47
-- that's the point.
00:37:17.47\00:37:18.27
>>TY: Yeah, yeah.
00:37:18.27\00:37:19.47
>>DAVID: And that food will
leave you fat, and that kind of
00:37:19.47\00:37:23.17
pursuit of sexual satisfaction,
that liberty, getting back to
00:37:23.17\00:37:27.21
Jeffrey's thing about how rules,
are there lots, or, that will
00:37:27.21\00:37:30.01
leave you sexually obese, in
other words, it will turn you
00:37:30.01\00:37:33.28
into a person who
is incapacitated to
00:37:33.28\00:37:37.39
-- >>TY: You want more and more
and more of what can't satisfy.
00:37:37.39\00:37:39.42
>>JEFFREY: Hey, before we take
a break, I don't know how we're
00:37:39.42\00:37:42.19
doing on time, can I read just
to affirm everything you just
00:37:42.19\00:37:45.16
said in James 1, I know we were
all hoping to be the one to read
00:37:45.16\00:37:50.00
this, actually, James chapter 2
and verse 12, as we're familiar
00:37:50.00\00:37:54.07
with, and for our viewers,
James chapter 2, verse 12, where
00:37:54.07\00:37:57.71
powerful, powerful definition of
the law or identification of the
00:37:57.71\00:38:01.68
law, what we're told here in
verse 12, speak and do as those
00:38:01.68\00:38:06.41
who will be judged
by the law of liberty.
00:38:06.41\00:38:10.72
And that goes back to the
point we've been making from the
00:38:10.72\00:38:12.99
beginning that the law of God,
the commandments of God, the
00:38:12.99\00:38:17.06
rules of God are calculated
to allow us to access greater
00:38:17.06\00:38:23.10
dosages of liberty.
00:38:23.10\00:38:24.97
>>DAVID: To be more human,
I love the way you say human.
00:38:24.97\00:38:27.27
>>JEFFREY: Yeah, to be
at liberty to be who we were
00:38:27.27\00:38:29.90
created to be originally.
00:38:29.90\00:38:31.04
And all of these counterfeit
cultural things we see in
00:38:31.04\00:38:34.21
society are actually
providing the exact opposite.
00:38:34.21\00:38:38.35
It's keeping people
in a perpetual rat race.
00:38:38.35\00:38:41.98
>>DAVID: This might sound a
little pedestrian or you know,
00:38:41.98\00:38:47.92
inconsequential, but I have a
number of friends who expressed
00:38:47.92\00:38:53.43
surprise at the fact
that I don't drink coffee.
00:38:53.43\00:38:55.76
I don't drink coffee and they
like coffee and they like to go
00:38:55.76\00:39:00.84
to the coffee shops and
sit down and do all of that.
00:39:00.84\00:39:02.70
I'll go with them, but I'll
drink an herbal tea or whatever.
00:39:02.70\00:39:05.47
And I sometimes get the sense
that there's this almost, you
00:39:05.47\00:39:11.81
know, this contempt, not an
outright contempt because these
00:39:11.81\00:39:14.68
are good people, but there's
almost like a, you know, poor
00:39:14.68\00:39:17.52
guy, you know.
00:39:17.52\00:39:18.75
But you know, the thing is is
that I'm not, I'm free to have
00:39:18.75\00:39:24.46
regular sleep patterns.
00:39:24.46\00:39:25.99
I'm free to not wake up in the
morning with my eyes like, you
00:39:25.99\00:39:29.20
know, the Garfield eyes, halfway
down and, oh, man, I need my
00:39:29.20\00:39:32.20
morning cup of coffee.
00:39:32.20\00:39:33.40
I'm free to wake up, drink a
glass of water and hit the day.
00:39:33.40\00:39:37.11
You see what I'm saying?
00:39:37.11\00:39:38.47
So, there's a rule.
00:39:38.47\00:39:39.64
>>JEFFREY: You're free
from extra yellow in your teeth.
00:39:39.64\00:39:41.01
>>DAVID: I'm free from
extra yellow in my teeth.
00:39:41.01\00:39:42.38
I'm free from the diuretic,
there's a lot of things that
00:39:42.38\00:39:45.15
caffeine is not, I read a book
years ago called Caffeine Blues.
00:39:45.15\00:39:47.55
So, is that a rule?
00:39:47.55\00:39:49.78
Well, I mean, I can't show you a
text in the bible that says, you
00:39:49.78\00:39:52.89
shall not drink caffeine,
but the principle of health, the
00:39:52.89\00:39:56.39
principle of putting into
my body the things that are the
00:39:56.39\00:39:59.03
most beneficial to my mental,
physical, spiritual, social
00:39:59.03\00:40:02.00
health, I can show you that.
00:40:02.00\00:40:03.00
And so, I'm,
that is a restriction.
00:40:03.00\00:40:05.37
But it's a restriction
that brings about liberty.
00:40:05.37\00:40:08.00
>>TY: Well, we have to take a
break and then come back for our
00:40:08.00\00:40:11.74
third segment, but I have one
scripture I found and one that,
00:40:11.74\00:40:16.64
during the break, you might be
able to help me find that I just
00:40:16.64\00:40:18.95
can't put my finger on, but I
think you're gonna love it if we
00:40:18.95\00:40:21.25
can find it, and I think
those who are studying with us,
00:40:21.25\00:40:24.82
conversing with us on this theme
will really like this verse if
00:40:24.82\00:40:28.22
we can find it.
00:40:28.22\00:40:28.76
So, let's take a break.
00:40:28.76\00:40:29.76
[Music]
00:40:29.76\00:40:34.83
Announcer: Truth is not merely
a list of theological facts, but
00:40:34.83\00:40:38.37
rather the revelation of God's
beautiful love in Jesus Christ.
00:40:38.37\00:40:41.30
Truth Link is a series of bible
study guides that magnify God's
00:40:41.30\00:40:46.04
love as the center
of every bible doctrine.
00:40:46.04\00:40:48.61
To receive your free copy of
lesson one, call 877-585-1111 or
00:40:48.61\00:40:55.95
write to Light Bearers, 37457
Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper,
00:40:55.95\00:41:01.02
Oregon, 97438.
00:41:01.02\00:41:03.39
Once again, to receive your free
copy of Truth Link lesson one,
00:41:03.39\00:41:07.96
call 877-585-1111 or write
to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper
00:41:07.96\00:41:15.17
Lowell Road,
Jasper, Oregon, 97438.
00:41:15.17\00:41:20.08
Simply ask for
Truth Link, lesson one.
00:41:20.08\00:41:22.44
[Music]
00:41:22.44\00:41:28.75
>>DAVID: I am absolutely
loving this conversation.
00:41:28.75\00:41:31.69
We're talking about the nature
of freedom, the nature of law,
00:41:31.69\00:41:34.99
the nature of, even to some
degree, the nature of sin is
00:41:34.99\00:41:37.43
restrictive.
00:41:37.43\00:41:38.43
>>TY: The nature of pleasure.
00:41:38.43\00:41:39.59
>>DAVID: The nature of pleasure.
00:41:39.59\00:41:40.83
I'm loving it, and I think that
this view, I know this view is
00:41:40.83\00:41:44.83
not widely understood
as the Christian view.
00:41:44.83\00:41:48.40
People looking from the outside
into the aquarium are not seeing
00:41:48.40\00:41:52.41
this view and those of us that
are living, as it were, in the
00:41:52.41\00:41:54.91
Christian aquarium, we're not, I
don't think we're doing as good
00:41:54.91\00:41:57.78
a job
00:41:57.78\00:41:58.68
-- >>JEFFREY: We're
not representing it as
00:41:58.68\00:41:59.91
-- >>DAVID: I'll
tell you right now.
00:41:59.91\00:42:01.35
I've been preaching for
17 years, 17 years pastor.
00:42:01.35\00:42:02.98
I can tell you that from much of
my preaching, I wasn't preaching
00:42:02.98\00:42:06.96
it like this.
00:42:06.96\00:42:08.09
I was preaching things
like Saturday's the Sabbath and
00:42:08.09\00:42:10.89
that's the true day
and you need to keep it.
00:42:10.89\00:42:12.99
>>TY: So, get her done.
00:42:12.99\00:42:13.86
>>DAVID: Get her done.
00:42:13.86\00:42:14.73
And listen, was
what I was saying true?
00:42:14.73\00:42:16.97
>>JAMES: Yes.
00:42:16.97\00:42:17.37
>>DAVID: Yes.
00:42:17.37\00:42:18.13
>>JAMES: It is true.
00:42:18.13\00:42:19.17
>>DAVID: That's correct.
00:42:19.17\00:42:20.80
It reminds me of a website that
I saw not too long ago, maybe
00:42:20.80\00:42:22.97
I've mentioned this before,
but I think one of the cameramen
00:42:22.97\00:42:25.21
Ameel actually showed it to
me or we were talking about it.
00:42:25.21\00:42:27.14
There's this Christian ministry
that, not from my denomination,
00:42:27.14\00:42:32.15
not my church, but a Christian
ministry, reasonably large
00:42:32.15\00:42:34.08
church, I don't know who the guy
is, but somebody sent me a link
00:42:34.08\00:42:36.22
and I thought it was so
interesting, here's the guy's
00:42:36.22\00:42:38.25
resource page, pastors
a church of 5, 6, 7,000.
00:42:38.25\00:42:40.59
Resource page, and his sermons,
he's been pastoring the church
00:42:40.59\00:42:44.23
for, like, 16 years, and
the sermons go back until about
00:42:44.23\00:42:47.20
2000, I think it was like
2006, 2008, something like that.
00:42:47.20\00:42:52.50
And then there was a little, you
click on anything before 2008,
00:42:52.50\00:42:55.50
and there was a little, this
is the link he sent me, it said,
00:42:55.50\00:42:57.77
all sermons from
before 2008 have been removed.
00:42:57.77\00:43:02.28
Not for content, but for tone.
00:43:02.28\00:43:06.15
All sermons have been removed.
00:43:06.15\00:43:09.02
He went back, I don't know who
the guy is, I've never heard one
00:43:09.02\00:43:11.79
of his sermons, but I love the
fact that he went back and he
00:43:11.79\00:43:14.89
said, you know
what, that's true.
00:43:14.89\00:43:16.22
That's true, that's true.
00:43:16.22\00:43:17.86
I wish that I could go back and
remove not all, but some of my
00:43:17.86\00:43:21.83
own sermons that I've preached,
not for content, but for tone.
00:43:21.83\00:43:26.80
>>JEFFREY: For emphasis.
00:43:26.80\00:43:27.67
>>DAVID: For
emphasis, for perspective.
00:43:27.67\00:43:29.04
It's not that I was saying
things that weren't true, at
00:43:29.04\00:43:30.84
least I hope I wasn't, but I
sometimes, the other day, I'll
00:43:30.84\00:43:34.61
tell you a story, on my phone, I
have an old, old, old voice memo
00:43:34.61\00:43:38.21
from a sermon that I preached
a long time ago, it was still on
00:43:38.21\00:43:39.98
there, it was just back in the
day where I had a little voice
00:43:39.98\00:43:42.82
recorder, it was the first
iPhone I ever got, so it's like
00:43:42.82\00:43:44.59
going back about 6 years, and
I just set it on the pulpit and
00:43:44.59\00:43:46.59
tried to record it, which
doesn't work for me as you know,
00:43:46.59\00:43:48.36
because I'm laundering
here, there, and everywhere.
00:43:48.36\00:43:49.46
It wasn't going
through the sound system.
00:43:49.46\00:43:50.89
I was just
recording it on the spot.
00:43:50.89\00:43:52.33
And I listened to that sermon
and I thought, overall, it
00:43:52.33\00:43:55.96
wasn't a bad sermon, but I
thought, man, there are ways
00:43:55.96\00:43:59.80
that I would say that
now that I know are better.
00:43:59.80\00:44:03.41
>>JAMES: David, there's
something here that I think is
00:44:03.41\00:44:07.14
really powerful and this is what
it is, you said that the tone,
00:44:07.14\00:44:12.35
and I would say another
word that's synonymous with that
00:44:12.35\00:44:15.02
would be the spirit.
00:44:15.02\00:44:15.98
The spirit.
00:44:15.98\00:44:17.19
And then we're talking about
liberty and restriction, we're
00:44:17.19\00:44:20.09
talking about these, the
contrasting ideas that we have
00:44:20.09\00:44:23.22
about sin and
about the law of God.
00:44:23.22\00:44:25.16
Now, listen to this verse,
and this verse just puts it all
00:44:25.16\00:44:27.36
together, just
listen to this verse.
00:44:27.36\00:44:28.83
You'll know it, as soon as I
start reading it, you'll know
00:44:28.83\00:44:31.20
it.
00:44:31.20\00:44:32.43
Now, the Lord is that spirit,
and where the spirit of the Lord
00:44:32.43\00:44:36.87
is, there is liberty.
00:44:36.87\00:44:39.21
If the Holy Spirit is preaching
through us and teaching through
00:44:39.21\00:44:41.41
us, we're preaching a
message that is liberating.
00:44:41.41\00:44:44.18
We're preaching a
message of liberty.
00:44:44.18\00:44:46.25
That's the tone of our message.
00:44:46.25\00:44:48.92
That's the, so this guy says,
from 2008 before, wrong tone.
00:44:48.92\00:44:53.09
There's a way that Jesus Christ,
when he came on this earth,
00:44:53.09\00:44:56.36
there's a way that, when he
walked this planet, when the
00:44:56.36\00:44:58.59
greatest man that ever trod shoe
leather walked planet earth,
00:44:58.59\00:45:01.40
there was a way that he
presented the same truth, wasn't
00:45:01.40\00:45:05.27
a different truth,
it was the same truth.
00:45:05.27\00:45:07.40
The same stuff.
00:45:07.40\00:45:08.64
But there was a tone, there was
a spirit and he said, when he
00:45:08.64\00:45:12.47
first started, he said, I've
come to set the captives free,
00:45:12.47\00:45:17.21
that's what he said.
00:45:17.21\00:45:18.78
>>TY: Oh, bring it on, please.
00:45:18.78\00:45:19.98
>>JAMES: That's powerful.
00:45:19.98\00:45:21.58
>>TY: But not only tone and
spirit, but also configuration,
00:45:21.58\00:45:26.59
because you can have two parts
of an equation and overemphasize
00:45:26.59\00:45:32.86
one part of the conceptual
puzzle to the minimizing or
00:45:32.86\00:45:38.00
exclusion of the other part.
00:45:38.00\00:45:39.63
You wouldn't just outright deny
that other part because, after
00:45:39.63\00:45:43.14
all, there are bible verses
about it, so you're a little bit
00:45:43.14\00:45:46.07
careful with that.
00:45:46.07\00:45:47.31
So, you know it's there, but the
configuration, how you put the
00:45:47.31\00:45:50.51
picture together is
really, really important.
00:45:50.51\00:45:55.72
I mean, we're talking, believe
it or not, we're talking about
00:45:55.72\00:45:59.39
law.
00:45:59.39\00:46:00.66
We're talking about rules right
now, but we're talking about
00:46:00.66\00:46:03.83
rules, we're talking about law,
God's law, and we've painted a
00:46:03.83\00:46:08.80
picture of liberty.
00:46:08.80\00:46:09.80
>>DAVID: It's
the law of liberty.
00:46:09.80\00:46:11.83
>>TY: It's the law of
liberty, according to scripture.
00:46:11.83\00:46:13.70
You remember, before we took
the break, I said there were 2
00:46:13.70\00:46:16.94
scriptures and one of them I
found and the other one I was
00:46:16.94\00:46:19.31
trying to find, okay.
00:46:19.31\00:46:20.54
This verse is amazing in Psalm
119, verse 32, and it's about
00:46:20.54\00:46:28.65
the law of God, and
notice how it's articulated.
00:46:28.65\00:46:32.15
It says, verse 32, David says,
I will run in the course of your
00:46:32.15\00:46:39.36
commandments, for you
shall enlarge my heart.
00:46:39.36\00:46:44.00
That's the New
King James Version.
00:46:44.00\00:46:45.40
So, let's begin with that.
00:46:45.40\00:46:47.07
I will run, you have to
have space to run, right?
00:46:47.07\00:46:51.81
You can't run in a room
that's 12 feet by 12 feet.
00:46:51.81\00:46:56.21
You can't even get up momentum.
00:46:56.21\00:46:58.08
You can't run in a cage.
00:46:58.08\00:46:59.71
You have to have a horizon, you
have to have some space to run.
00:46:59.71\00:47:03.55
And he says, I'm running in
the course of your commandments.
00:47:03.55\00:47:07.22
God's law is a vast
horizon, we said, of freedom.
00:47:07.22\00:47:11.73
And then, he says, for
you shall enlarge my heart.
00:47:11.73\00:47:15.00
Now, that's interesting
language, and that goes back to
00:47:15.00\00:47:17.27
what Jeffrey said earlier when
Jeffrey used the word capacity.
00:47:17.27\00:47:21.24
Within the law of God, there is
an enlargement of capacity for
00:47:21.24\00:47:28.68
freedom, and within sin, there
is a diminishing of capacity for
00:47:28.68\00:47:34.38
freedom.
00:47:34.38\00:47:35.58
Now, another
verse, yeah, go ahead.
00:47:35.58\00:47:38.05
>>JEFFREY:
You're leaving someone?
00:47:38.05\00:47:39.15
>>TY: Let me tell you,
there's another version, another
00:47:39.15\00:47:42.66
rendering of
00:47:42.66\00:47:43.56
-- [inaudible chatter]
00:47:43.56\00:47:46.66
>>JEFFREY: I'm gonna
affirm you on the same chapter.
00:47:46.66\00:47:47.66
>>TY: Okay, watch this.
00:47:47.66\00:47:48.86
I will run in the course of
your commandments, for you shall
00:47:48.86\00:47:52.27
enlarge my heart.
00:47:52.27\00:47:53.50
In another version, the version
is NIV, says, I will run in the
00:47:53.50\00:47:57.41
course of your commandments,
something like that, and this
00:47:57.41\00:47:59.41
part, for you
have set my heart free.
00:47:59.41\00:48:03.41
You've set me free.
00:48:03.41\00:48:04.35
In what context have
you set my heart free?
00:48:04.35\00:48:07.82
In the context of your law.
00:48:07.82\00:48:09.55
Your commandments are, in fact,
the parameters within which I
00:48:09.55\00:48:15.42
find all this
freedom, this liberty.
00:48:15.42\00:48:18.56
>>JEFFREY: That's exactly what
it says, I just glanced down,
00:48:18.56\00:48:21.76
that's exactly what it
says in verses 44 and 45.
00:48:21.76\00:48:24.27
>>TY: Alright, bring us there.
00:48:24.27\00:48:25.50
>>JEFFREY: I shall keep your law
continually forever and ever.
00:48:25.50\00:48:29.20
Verse 45, and I will walk at
liberty because, for I seek your
00:48:29.20\00:48:35.58
precepts.
00:48:35.58\00:48:36.75
The fact that I'm seeking
your precepts, your rules, your
00:48:36.75\00:48:40.15
commandments, your statutes,
allows me to walk at liberty.
00:48:40.15\00:48:43.62
Oh, that's good.
00:48:43.62\00:48:44.82
>>DAVID: Jeffrey, do you have
verse 45 there, the marginal
00:48:44.82\00:48:46.72
reading, do you have the
marginal reading there for 45?
00:48:46.72\00:48:49.59
>>JEFFREY: I don't.
00:48:49.59\00:48:50.13
>>DAVID: Listen to this.
00:48:50.13\00:48:51.36
Ty, you'll love this, it's the
very point you were just making
00:48:51.36\00:48:53.06
back up in verse 32, look at
this, I will walk at liberty,
00:48:53.06\00:48:56.63
marginal reading, I
will walk in a wide place.
00:48:56.63\00:48:59.63
>>TY: Oh, is
that verse 45 or 32?
00:48:59.63\00:49:01.30
>>DAVID: That's verse 45.
00:49:01.30\00:49:02.47
I will walk at
liberty in a wide place.
00:49:02.47\00:49:06.11
>>TY: Isn't that something?
00:49:06.11\00:49:07.54
>>DAVID: That's the very point
you were making, you can't run
00:49:07.54\00:49:09.21
in a 12x12 room.
00:49:09.21\00:49:10.35
You don't see lions
running, they pace, right?
00:49:10.35\00:49:13.25
A lion in a zoo.
00:49:13.25\00:49:14.38
But I'll tell you this, my
favorite state in the United
00:49:14.38\00:49:19.59
States of America, now that
I live in Australia, I have an
00:49:19.59\00:49:22.42
increasing fondness for not only
the US, but this state, it's my
00:49:22.42\00:49:28.36
state, it's the state I was born
in, the state I was born again
00:49:28.36\00:49:30.77
in.
00:49:30.77\00:49:31.53
What state was that?
00:49:31.53\00:49:32.30
>>TY: Wyoming.
00:49:32.30\00:49:32.77
>>DAVID: Wyoming.
00:49:32.77\00:49:33.84
And years ago, I read a
book, not a Christian book
00:49:33.84\00:49:37.11
necessarily, but a book about,
not a Christian book at all, in
00:49:37.11\00:49:39.57
fact, but a book that was
written by someone who was just
00:49:39.57\00:49:42.38
praising Wyoming, it was just
a book in praise of Wyoming.
00:49:42.38\00:49:45.98
It's where I was born,
it's where I was born again, my
00:49:45.98\00:49:47.52
family's from there, my
parents still live there.
00:49:47.52\00:49:48.82
And the book was called
The Solace of Wide Open Spaces.
00:49:48.82\00:49:53.32
>>TY: Oh, nice.
00:49:53.32\00:49:54.52
>>DAVID: And I tell you, there
is something about Wyoming.
00:49:54.52\00:49:57.06
Even the old song says, give me
home where the buffalo, what do
00:49:57.06\00:49:59.83
they do?
00:49:59.83\00:50:00.90
They roam, and the deer
and the antelope, they play.
00:50:00.90\00:50:02.93
I've always, look, when I go to
a city and don't get me wrong, I
00:50:02.93\00:50:05.53
can visit a city, I can enjoy
New York City for a day or 2 or
00:50:05.53\00:50:09.04
3.
00:50:09.04\00:50:09.90
But I feel, I
start to feel confined.
00:50:09.90\00:50:13.01
But, man, I get out in
Wyoming and I just, there's the
00:50:13.01\00:50:15.31
mountains over here and here's
this stream and the plains and I
00:50:15.31\00:50:17.88
see the antelope
racing across, I mean, this
00:50:17.88\00:50:20.38
-- >>TY: That's what the
bible is describing here.
00:50:20.38\00:50:22.98
James and I had an
experience in Wyoming.
00:50:22.98\00:50:26.39
We were preaching at a camp
meeting in North Carolina and I
00:50:26.39\00:50:32.93
bought a car there, right after
the camp meeting, but we had
00:50:32.93\00:50:35.90
another camp meeting we had to
speak at in a matter of days in
00:50:35.90\00:50:39.53
Washington state.
00:50:39.53\00:50:40.77
So, all the way from the east
coast to the west coast, okay.
00:50:40.77\00:50:42.64
So, you can't throw the car
you just bought in your carry on
00:50:42.64\00:50:47.78
luggage and get it home, so
we flew out there, I bought that
00:50:47.78\00:50:51.35
car and then, James was willing
to drive it back with me so that
00:50:51.35\00:50:56.25
there could be no need for
stopping at a hotel, no need for
00:50:56.25\00:50:59.29
stopping, we could just one of
us is sleeping and one of us is
00:50:59.29\00:51:01.99
driving and we drove from North
Carolina to Washington state in
00:51:01.99\00:51:05.99
32-33 hours, in 32 hours across
the United States, nonstop.
00:51:05.99\00:51:11.40
But the best part, where we
really gained some time was in
00:51:11.40\00:51:14.10
Wyoming with those long straight
stretches of open road and no
00:51:14.10\00:51:20.91
police officers anywhere.
00:51:20.91\00:51:23.04
>>DAVID: There's like a sheriff
in Casper, there's like a
00:51:23.04\00:51:25.25
sheriff in Cheyenne, there's
like a sheriff in Jackson.
00:51:25.25\00:51:27.98
>>TY: I put that car to the
test, man, just 110, 120 miles
00:51:27.98\00:51:32.75
an hour
straight through Wyoming.
00:51:32.75\00:51:34.42
>>JEFFREY: This just became a
huge plugin for Wyoming all of a
00:51:34.42\00:51:37.63
sudden.
00:51:37.63\00:51:38.76
>>DAVID: Listen, I'm just
telling you, it's paradise.
00:51:38.76\00:51:40.73
It is.
00:51:40.73\00:51:41.80
Go to the website,
no I'm just kidding.
00:51:41.80\00:51:44.50
>>TY: So, I said, I had two.
00:51:44.50\00:51:45.53
The other one, I
couldn't find it.
00:51:45.53\00:51:48.44
>>DAVID: I will
walk in wide open places.
00:51:48.44\00:51:49.97
>>TY: I couldn't find it, but
during the break, I did find it,
00:51:49.97\00:51:52.57
it's chapter 2 of Jeremiah,
verse 13, and this scripture, at
00:51:52.57\00:51:59.75
first, is a little bit elusive,
like, what is this talking
00:51:59.75\00:52:02.32
about?
00:52:02.32\00:52:03.55
But notice this, God has been
speaking to his people who have
00:52:03.55\00:52:06.39
been pursuing, let's just call
it rebellion, or let's just call
00:52:06.39\00:52:09.26
it sin.
00:52:09.26\00:52:10.46
They've been outside of the
parameters of God's will, God's
00:52:10.46\00:52:13.76
law, God's law,
God's rules, okay?
00:52:13.76\00:52:15.93
And chapter 2 of Jeremiah, verse
13, for my people have committed
00:52:15.93\00:52:20.00
two evils, number one, they have
forsaken me, the fountain of
00:52:20.00\00:52:26.98
living waters.
00:52:26.98\00:52:29.41
So, you have an image here
of free flowing, living waters.
00:52:29.41\00:52:34.55
That's the first evil,
they've turned away from me, the
00:52:34.55\00:52:37.19
fountain of living waters,
and here's the second evil, they
00:52:37.19\00:52:41.26
have humed for themselves
cisterns, broken cisterns that
00:52:41.26\00:52:48.03
cannot hold water.
00:52:48.03\00:52:49.73
This is a metaphoric description
of containers that are broken,
00:52:49.73\00:52:58.47
they have holes in them so that
the water that you're trying to
00:52:58.47\00:53:02.54
contain cannot be contained and
there's just massive leakage.
00:53:02.54\00:53:06.41
This is a description in
scripture of the fact that God
00:53:06.41\00:53:10.55
and his ways are free flowing
and liberating, but sin is
00:53:10.55\00:53:16.59
restrictive and it
leaks, it's not sustainable.
00:53:16.59\00:53:22.43
It's not sustainable.
00:53:22.43\00:53:24.30
There are
unsustainable pleasures.
00:53:24.30\00:53:26.94
James took us to
00:53:26.94\00:53:28.50
-- >>JAMES: Psalm 16.
00:53:28.50\00:53:30.84
>>TY: No, where was
that sin for a season?
00:53:30.84\00:53:32.94
Hebrews, Hebrews 11.
00:53:32.94\00:53:34.81
The pleasures of sin for a
season basically is saying that
00:53:34.81\00:53:40.52
sin gives momentary pleasure,
but the pleasure sin gives is
00:53:40.52\00:53:45.02
not sustainable pleasure.
00:53:45.02\00:53:46.49
It doesn't increase with
exercise, it diminishes until
00:53:46.49\00:53:49.19
you don't even have the
capacity for pleasure anymore.
00:53:49.19\00:53:51.06
But God's ways are ways
of pleasantness and peace.
00:53:51.06\00:53:57.70
There's a place in Psalm 37
where God says, if you come to
00:53:57.70\00:54:01.84
me, you will drink of
the rivers of my pleasures.
00:54:01.84\00:54:05.74
Rivers of pleasures.
00:54:05.74\00:54:08.24
>>JEFFREY: Constant source.
00:54:08.24\00:54:09.68
>>TY: Constant source, never
diminished, expanding pleasures.
00:54:09.68\00:54:15.28
So, broken cisterns.
00:54:15.28\00:54:17.19
That's what the world is
offering, broken cisterns that
00:54:17.19\00:54:19.59
cannot hold water.
00:54:19.59\00:54:20.79
>>JAMES: By the way,
Moses experienced that.
00:54:20.79\00:54:22.29
Moses experienced that.
00:54:22.29\00:54:24.06
Moses is an example of that
reality, because think about it,
00:54:24.06\00:54:26.63
Moses chose to suffer with his
people than to experience the
00:54:26.63\00:54:31.77
pleasure of sin for a season and
today, we know that Moses is in
00:54:31.77\00:54:35.74
heaven experiencing pleasures
at God's behalf forevermore.
00:54:35.74\00:54:40.24
Now, where would Moses be if he
wouldn't have chosen to do that?
00:54:40.24\00:54:43.18
>>JEFFREY: In a
museum somewhere.
00:54:43.18\00:54:44.55
>>JAMES: Yeah, we'd be paying
big bucks to go see Moses'
00:54:44.55\00:54:46.65
stuff.
00:54:46.65\00:54:47.85
Whoa, there's Moses' chariot,
oh, check that out, there's,
00:54:47.85\00:54:50.55
pleasures for a season.
00:54:50.55\00:54:52.65
>>DAVID: An illustration that
comes to mind whenever we talk
00:54:52.65\00:54:55.49
about these kinds of things for
me, are the young people that
00:54:55.49\00:54:59.03
make a bad choice because of
peer pressure or whatever else
00:54:59.03\00:55:02.30
and they take that first drink
of alcohol or they take that
00:55:02.30\00:55:05.97
first puff of marijuana or
that first pill or whatever.
00:55:05.97\00:55:09.74
Just the other day, I was
talking to somebody, I was
00:55:09.74\00:55:12.01
actually giving a devotion to
the Adventist college where I'm
00:55:12.01\00:55:14.61
at, Tweed Valley Adventist
College in Australia, and I said
00:55:14.61\00:55:17.68
to the young people, the best
way to guarantee that you never
00:55:17.68\00:55:20.38
have a second drink of
alcohol is don't take a first.
00:55:20.38\00:55:23.75
The way to guarantee you do not
become an alcoholic, you do not
00:55:23.75\00:55:27.76
become enslaved, you don't, to
guarantee that you're not one of
00:55:27.76\00:55:30.89
these people who's 22 years old,
heroin addicted, overdosed, you
00:55:30.89\00:55:35.00
no longer can enjoy the
pleasures of heroin or the
00:55:35.00\00:55:38.17
pleasures of cocaine or the
pleasures of drunkenness because
00:55:38.17\00:55:40.74
you're dead.
00:55:40.74\00:55:41.94
You will never taste a
mango, I mean, I'm going back to
00:55:41.94\00:55:46.17
Australia and mango season
is just around the corner.
00:55:46.17\00:55:48.54
Do we need to talk
about mango season?
00:55:48.54\00:55:51.68
You know what I'm saying, and
just go down the list, whether
00:55:51.68\00:55:55.95
it's mangos or the holding of a
fresh baby or the catching of a
00:55:55.95\00:55:59.45
wave or the walking on a
beach with your wife, all of the
00:55:59.45\00:56:04.53
pleasures, we could just
start listing the things.
00:56:04.53\00:56:07.00
James, what do you enjoy doing?
00:56:07.00\00:56:08.30
You enjoy hitting a ball just
perfect on that tennis racket.
00:56:08.30\00:56:10.93
I love the way
that feels myself.
00:56:10.93\00:56:12.47
Ty has his pleasures, Jeffrey
has his pleasures, I have my
00:56:12.47\00:56:14.94
pleasures, and, but you don't
enjoy any of that when you're
00:56:14.94\00:56:17.54
dead.
00:56:17.54\00:56:18.77
>>TY: And you don't enjoy any of
that when you are plagued with
00:56:18.77\00:56:24.18
mistrust and insecurity and
guilt and shame and failure.
00:56:24.18\00:56:28.45
>>DAVID: I just use the drugs
as an illustration of, oh yeah,
00:56:28.45\00:56:31.05
you're free, you're free to take
that drink and you're free to
00:56:31.05\00:56:33.59
put that in your veins, and you
are also free to die prematurely
00:56:33.59\00:56:38.29
or to live a life, maybe you
don't die, maybe you don't die,
00:56:38.29\00:56:41.80
and it's not a scare tactic,
it's, this is not scaring
00:56:41.80\00:56:44.43
people, that doesn't work, oh,
you shouldn't because this bad
00:56:44.43\00:56:47.17
thing will happen, it's not the
bad thing that happens, it's the
00:56:47.17\00:56:50.67
fact that you don't get to
experience the fullness of joy.
00:56:50.67\00:56:53.74
I am come that they might have
life and that they might have it
00:56:53.74\00:56:55.18
more abundantly.
00:56:55.18\00:56:56.38
>>TY: The reason it's not scare
tactics is because God's law
00:56:56.38\00:56:58.75
describes the proper
operations of life and reality.
00:56:58.75\00:57:03.32
This is the way life works.
00:57:03.32\00:57:06.82
There are certain protocols
for any pursuit and within God's
00:57:06.82\00:57:15.80
law, there are inherent
principles that expand and
00:57:15.80\00:57:20.37
within sin, there are inherent
principles that contract.
00:57:20.37\00:57:22.77
That's the bottom line.
00:57:22.77\00:57:24.01
>>JEFFREY: In a sense, I don't
wanna open a counter war, I know
00:57:24.01\00:57:25.47
we're almost out of time,
but in a sense, God's rules are
00:57:25.47\00:57:28.61
restrictive, they restrict
brokenness and sin, evil, they
00:57:28.61\00:57:33.68
restrict, you know, all of the
addiction, pain, suffering, they
00:57:33.68\00:57:39.82
restrict all of these things
from entering and reproaching
00:57:39.82\00:57:42.32
into my life, and that's
another way to look at it.
00:57:42.32\00:57:44.66
>>TY: Exactly.
00:57:44.66\00:57:45.83
>>DAVID: And they restrict
us from viewing other people
00:57:45.83\00:57:48.93
negatively, with
suspicion, with distrust.
00:57:48.93\00:57:52.03
God's laws free us to believe
the best about those people
00:57:52.03\00:57:56.97
around us.
00:57:56.97\00:57:58.14
To hope, love believes all
things, love hopes all things,
00:57:58.14\00:58:02.08
love endures all things.
00:58:02.08\00:58:03.71
So, at the end of the day, it's
not just about God's law frees
00:58:03.71\00:58:06.08
me for me and my end, that's
true, but it also frees me to
00:58:06.08\00:58:11.52
see the best in others.
00:58:11.52\00:58:15.02
Jesus, he was a master of that.
00:58:15.02\00:58:16.89
He was a master of that.
00:58:16.89\00:58:18.06
>>TY: So, we began with a
question, why does God have so
00:58:18.06\00:58:20.50
many rules?
00:58:20.50\00:58:21.40
>>DAVID: Can answer
it in one word, love.
00:58:21.40\00:58:24.77
>>TY: Yeah, that's why.
00:58:24.77\00:58:25.50
>>JEFFREY: That's why, love.
00:58:25.50\00:58:26.74
>>TY: Every single thing that
God says is an extension of the
00:58:26.74\00:58:31.34
goodness of his character, he's
longing for us to flourish and
00:58:31.34\00:58:35.28
thrive.
00:58:35.28\00:58:36.51
He doesn't want us in cages, he
wants us in the open planes of
00:58:36.51\00:58:39.78
Wyoming,
experiencing the plains of life.
00:58:39.78\00:58:44.12
God's law is good
because God is good himself.
00:58:44.12\00:58:48.99
>>JAMES: Amen.
00:58:48.99\00:58:50.76
[Music]
00:58:50.76\00:59:00.87
[Music]
00:59:00.87\00:59:13.58