[Music]
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[Music]
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--Alright, guys, we're in
session number four of our
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Righteousness by Faith series.
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And it's been
pretty interesting.
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We began by just unpacking the
idea of righteousness by faith
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as a language that a lot people
might not be familiar with.
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And even those who are familiar
with that language within a
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theological and church context,
I think it's important just to
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bring that language
down and make it accessible.
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We began to understand that
righteousness by faith, while it
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sounds technical...
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--It sounds churchy.
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--Churchy, it's really
about relationship with God.
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It's a term that defines a way
of relating from God to us and
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then us
reciprocating back to God.
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And then we moved on and
we really spent a lot of time
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dealing with the Genesis account
of the creation of man, the fall
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of man and what that began to
look like and then God calling
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Abraham out.
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That's pretty
much where we left off.
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And now, we wanna move into
territory, where, first of all,
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in Genesis, we find that, what
we're calling the sin problem,
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again, it sounds pretty churchy,
kinda in house, but we're gonna
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unpack it, what does
the sin problem look like?
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When we say the word sin, for
example, are we talking about an
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arbitrarily concocted list
of rules that God, because he's
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bigger than us and more powerful
than us, is just imposing and we
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had better do what he says or
else because he's God and we're
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not?
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I mean, could he have just as
easily come up with a different
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list, like move those rocks over
there and then move them back?
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Or is there something about this
word sin in scripture that is
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intrinsic to the operations
of our humanity as God created
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humanity.
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--Well, in the bigger picture,
we talked about how, in Genesis
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3, they only disobeyed God, we
were talking about the process,
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they didn't actually take
the fruit until there was a
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psychological sort of process
that took place where they began
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to question God.
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So, basically,
when trust broke up,
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only then did the
actual act follow.
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I think you're talking about
the definitions of sin, at a
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fundamental level, it seems to
be rooted in in distrust of God.
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--It's relational.
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Broken trust.
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--And because it's
relational, it's not arbitrary.
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In other words, I think that
that's a great question because
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many people, I think, ourselves,
maybe at this table, in the
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past, have thought of things
that God does as arbitrary, but
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we should remind ourselves that
nothing that God does is ever
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arbitrary.
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It's always purposeful, it's
always intentional, and it's
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always with our
best good in mind.
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So, when we talk about sin,
we're talking about a violation
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of a code, I guess the
simplest way to say it would be
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a transgression
of God's law, right?
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But then we even
have to unpack that.
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What is God's law?
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What does that mean?
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Why does he have a law?
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What kind of a law is it?
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Etc. We're kind of getting ahead
of the cart here, but the point
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is, is that sin is not
arbitrary, the definition of it
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is not arbitrary, it's patently
relational because it's based on
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a distrust of God and when we're
coming out of the Genesis story,
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we have seen, and I love that
trajectory that you paint there,
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we see from the creation in
Genesis 1 and 2, okay, that's
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all is well there, but from
3, 4, 5, 6, there's just this
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downward slide.
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We get into the time of the
flood, and it's like, God is
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like, they're thoughts
are only evil continually.
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--And actually, before we go
that far, do you guys mind if we
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do, if we read what I think is
a major transition in the story.
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We're talking about the
progression of Genesis from 3
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all the way to the flood, but
Genesis 5, specifically, there's
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this interesting detail
here that kinda describes a
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transition in human nature.
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In verse 1, this is the
book of the genealogy of Adam.
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In the day that God created man,
he made him in the likeness of
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God, and the backdrop of that
we're familiar with, Genesis 1.
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Verse 2, he created them male
and female and blessed them and
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called them mankind
the day that were created.
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And verse 3 says, and Adam lived
130 years and begot a son in his
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own likeness.
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--There's the key.
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--After his image,
and he named him Seth.
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So, it's really interesting,
in the beginning, man, Adam is
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created in the image of God
in the likeness of God, then we
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have all hell breaks loose in
chapter 3, there's the breaking
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down of trust with God and all
the ramifications of that, and
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then, now, in chapter 5 verse
1, there's this transition,
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everyone who is born post Adam,
obviously, is now born in his
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image and after his
likeness, Adam, that is.
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Adam after the breaking down
of his relationship with God.
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So, now, we're coming into this
world with a different wired
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system.
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We have different wiring.
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--Well, we see that even in
the Genesis 3 account, when God
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comes into the garden to
basically take account of what's
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taken place, and he says to
Adam, you know, essentially,
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what's going on here?
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Who told you
that you were naked?
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And his knee jerk instinctive
response is to say, it's the
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woman.
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Right, and now, we sort of play
a joke on that, you know, the
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guy blames the girl, and that
is, I guess, a little humorous,
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but the larger point is that he
has instantaneously gone from a
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desire to please others and to
be a blessing to others to being
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other centered,
to self-preservation.
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Hey, I've got a, it's exactly
what the serpent had said.
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God's looking out for himself
to the woman, you need to be
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looking out for yourself.
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Now that this switch has taken
place from other centeredness to
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self-centeredness, you
don't have to teach him this.
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Instinctively, the first, well,
the woman that you gave me.
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So then God turns his attention
to her, and instinctively, she's
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all about self-preservation as
well, well, you put the serpent
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in the garden.
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So, there's the shift, so, now,
you're right, when Seth is made
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in Adam's image, it's not in
an image that's naturally, by
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default, inclined to give
God the glory and to be service
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oriented and love oriented and
other centered, it's inwardly
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focused.
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--And that's the essence of
the sin problem right there.
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When we talk about sin,
we're not talking about God just
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making up some rules to see
if we'll do what he says, we're
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talking about God essentially
being a God of love or other
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centeredness in his nature, so
he creates human beings to live
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that way, to live with other
centeredness, to live in his
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love, and all of his laws,
according to scripture, are an
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outgrowth of that essential
truth about his character that
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God is love.
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So, when sin is committed,
sin is not just behaviorally
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breaking a rule, it is a
violation of the integrity of
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love relationship.
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First and foremost, vertically.
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Secondarily, horizontally.
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And you find this, if you fast
forward to the New Testament
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where Jesus comes along and
he basically says, whatever the
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nature of your relationship
is to other human beings, that's
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your relationship to me.
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You remember that in Matthew 25.
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Yeah, you feed somebody who's
hungry, it's like you're feeding
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me.
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You don't feed somebody who's
hungry, you don't tend to the
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needs of those who are
in need, and it impacts me.
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There's this vertical
horizon from God's standpoint.
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John goes so far as to say
if you hate another human being,
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don't say you love God
because there is an inextricable
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connection between our
human relationships and our
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relationship with God.
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So, vertical violation
of the integrity of the love
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relationship and then horizontal
violation of the integrity of
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love relationships.
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--Isn't that the two, when Jesus
was asked, what's the greatest
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commandment?
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And he says, well, there's two
ways to sum up the whole thing.
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The whole show is summed up with
two things, love God and love
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man, love your fellow neighbor.
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So, those are the two things,
and I always love the sequence
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there, that the first one is to
love God and the second one is
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to love our neighbor.
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Which is why I think, and we've
been hitting on this over and
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over in these conversations that
the way we view and relate God
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will affect the way we
view and relate one another.
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So, Jesus is saying, if you get
the first one wrong, there's no
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way you will know how to relate
to your fellow man or to your
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neighbor.
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So, everything is centered on
how we view God, the minute that
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was broken down in Genesis, how
they viewed one another was also
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broken down.
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--So, what do you guys
think of this definition?
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Do you think it would be
theologically accurate to say
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that sin is, you could
put equals there, that sin is
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anti-love?
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Is that accurate?
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--Yeah, totally.
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--Sin is anything that
violates the integrity of a love
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relationship between God
and humanity and humanity and
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humanity.
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Would you also agree, by
logical extension, that all the
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suffering and woe, everything
that causes pain and suffering,
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all the trauma of our world
is traceable to these kinds of
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violations?
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--Yeah, of course.
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--So, if those two things are
true, those who may be sitting
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in on this conversation
who aren't that familiar with
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biblical theology or the world
view that we're advocating,
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we can say to them, in a very
inviting way, listen, God is not
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an arbitrary control freak.
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If you had a picture of God,
a sense of God as some kind of
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just sovereign powerful being
who wants to get hold of you and
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make you do stuff that is going
to, you know, poop your party
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and make life miserable,
you've got it all wrong.
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God is interested in bringing
about in your life, in my life,
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in every human being's life,
consistent love relationships
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that bring joy and happiness and
peace, and even, the bible says,
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pleasure.
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God isn't against happiness,
he's not against pleasure, he's
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not against freedom,
he's not into restriction.
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God is into liberty, but liberty
of the genuine kind that happens
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within the parameters of
love relationships that have
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integrity.
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--Okay, so, I have
a question for you.
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I resonate deeply
with all of that, Ty.
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I feel like we need to define
our terms here a little bit
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because we're saying sin
is a violation of the love
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relationship, it's a violation
of the integrity of love.
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Okay, so, we need to
define this idea of love.
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I mean, I think we've done is
preliminarily, but can we give
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some textual, at least, quick
definition of what we're talking
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about.
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It's a violation of, in other
words, we did that for sin.
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Sin equals anti-love.
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Okay, so, anti what?
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--Yeah, what is love?
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--Because some people are gonna
say, well, you know, we know
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that we live in a society that
has taken the word love, it's
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turned it upside down, it's
shaken it around and it's spit
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out something that doesn't look
like what we see in scripture,
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so let's just, at least for our
purposes here, my own purposes,
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let's define that so that we
know precisely, if we're gonna
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break down, break down, break
down, let's define that, too.
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--Yeah, another way you could
say it is if God is saving us
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out of sin into love, we've
defined sin, but what is this
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thing he's saving us into?
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--There you go.
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--Well, not to be a broken
record or anything, but even in
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just John 3:16, for God so loved
the world that he, and then the
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word gave, right?
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So, fundamentally,
love has to be other.
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--Other centered.
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--Other
centered, right, he gave.
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So, there's others outside of
himself that are now central to
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his, to his concern,
to his everything, right?
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So, love is other-centered.
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--Jeffrey I want
to add to that because
00:12:28.76\00:12:29.86
I don't know if you've
ever encountered this, but I
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sometimes, especially in
marriage counselling, somebody,
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when you begin to advocate the
idea of giving as the definition
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of love, inevitably, all
of us have a lurking fear.
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But if I give, what
about the other person?
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Are they gonna give?
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Because we're looking at it
through the lens of our natural,
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innate, self-centeredness that's
in place and it feels dangerous
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to just give.
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It feels like we might be taken
advantage of, it feels like, and
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--you might, --you
might be taken advantage of.
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So, I wanna add to John 3:16,
Jesus gave this statement in,
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this is one of my
favorite bible verses.
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It's in chapter 6
of Luke, and verse 38.
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Watch what Jesus says here,
this is absolutely astounding.
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There's no punctuation in the
original language, by the way,
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so the way this reads, I think,
what Jesus is saying here, is
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the first word of verse
38 is give, period, or maybe
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exclamation point if we
wanna just emphasize, okay.
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Jesus says give, period.
00:13:42.00\00:13:45.00
Full stop.
00:13:45.43\00:13:46.36
Then, he says this, and it will
be given to you, good measure,
00:13:47.83\00:13:51.26
pressed down, shaken together,
and running over shall men give
00:13:51.26\00:13:57.33
into your bosom.
00:13:57.33\00:13:58.83
Isn't that something?
00:14:00.33\00:14:01.30
Jesus is describing
the circle, the circuit.
00:14:01.30\00:14:04.46
--Giving is receiving.
00:14:04.46\00:14:04.86
--Jesus is basically saying,
it's not your responsibility to
00:14:06.60\00:14:13.90
steward the
other person's giving.
00:14:13.90\00:14:15.53
It's your responsibility to be
infectious with giving on your
00:14:16.70\00:14:22.06
own account.
00:14:22.06\00:14:23.00
To give, some people
will take advantage of it.
00:14:23.20\00:14:25.56
Some people will walk all over
you, but some people will drink
00:14:25.76\00:14:29.20
in that goodness, and they'll
respond by giving back into your
00:14:29.20\00:14:34.16
life, and so the circle,
the circuit of beneficence.
00:14:34.16\00:14:37.16
--The whole thing about giving
and forgiving is often more for
00:14:37.16\00:14:40.76
our own benefit, even, than it
would be for the other person,
00:14:40.76\00:14:44.36
right?
00:14:44.36\00:14:45.60
--The other person might not
wanna be forgiven, they might
00:14:45.60\00:14:46.70
still be angry.
00:14:46.70\00:14:47.83
--I remember I was driving
down the highway in San Jose,
00:14:47.83\00:14:50.76
California, and I got a phone
call from Dominican Republic and
00:14:50.76\00:14:54.06
it was my dad, and I talked
to my dad once every 7 years
00:14:54.06\00:14:58.46
throughout my life.
00:14:58.46\00:14:59.60
And I was...
00:14:59.90\00:15:01.23
--And how old are you right now?
00:15:01.23\00:15:02.20
--I am 31 years old.
00:15:02.20\00:15:03.03
--So, you've
talked to him 3 times.
00:15:03.03\00:15:04.30
--It's, I've seen him, I could
just count with one hand, I just
00:15:04.30\00:15:07.76
barely even know my father.
00:15:07.76\00:15:09.20
Now, he passed away
a year and a half ago.
00:15:09.20\00:15:11.86
So, I pick up the phone and it's
him, and I'm completely shocked.
00:15:11.86\00:15:14.50
I'm like, it's not my birthday,
it's not Christmas, why is hi
00:15:14.50\00:15:17.63
calling?
00:15:17.63\00:15:18.83
I pull over, and in a very
serious tone, he basically says,
00:15:18.83\00:15:22.10
I just wanna know that there's
nothing that you have nothing
00:15:22.10\00:15:27.60
against me.
00:15:27.60\00:15:29.20
Because, basically,
he abandoned the family.
00:15:29.20\00:15:31.20
And it just turned out that he
found out recently that he was
00:15:32.06\00:15:34.26
dying of cancer so he got on
the phone and he was making the
00:15:34.26\00:15:37.66
rounds, calling all his children
to make sure that there was
00:15:37.66\00:15:41.56
nothing against him.
00:15:41.56\00:15:42.63
And for the first time,
I realized the gospel has
00:15:42.63\00:15:45.43
liberated me in my,
even within my family.
00:15:45.43\00:15:50.83
--In a really practical way.
00:15:50.83\00:15:52.06
--I was able to say, with total
honesty, I have nothing, no
00:15:52.06\00:15:55.63
hatred, no bitterness against
you at all, and it was such a
00:15:55.63\00:16:01.66
shock to him, because he
abandoned his family, you know,
00:16:01.66\00:16:03.56
before I grew up.
00:16:03.56\00:16:04.76
--He expected there to be,
what're you doing calling, blah,
00:16:04.76\00:16:05.90
blah, blah.
00:16:05.90\00:16:07.16
--Yeah, and I realized, I'm not
doing him a favor to let him off
00:16:07.16\00:16:09.06
the hook.
00:16:09.06\00:16:10.33
This is totally liberating, you
know, I've been set free, the
00:16:10.33\00:16:13.03
gospel has set me free.
00:16:13.03\00:16:14.30
So, what you're saying here is,
you give, you give, you give,
00:16:14.30\00:16:16.70
you're not sure if you'll
receive, if the person will
00:16:16.70\00:16:18.86
reciprocate, but you will
receive because the process of
00:16:18.86\00:16:21.20
forgiving is
liberating for us as well.
00:16:21.20\00:16:25.80
--That reminds me of the
title of the book, and the thing
00:16:25.80\00:16:29.63
that's interesting, the very
creative about title of this
00:16:29.63\00:16:31.80
book is about forgiveness,
keep that in mind, and
00:16:31.80\00:16:35.43
it's called Getting Even.
00:16:35.43\00:16:36.83
--That's awesome.
00:16:38.10\00:16:38.43
--Just last night, I was talking
to our niece, 19 year old niece
00:16:39.86\00:16:42.96
is staying with
us, lovely young lady.
00:16:42.96\00:16:45.23
And, you know, she's doing the
whole boyfriend thing right now,
00:16:45.23\00:16:48.86
trying to figure that out, she
loves God, she wants to put God
00:16:48.86\00:16:51.50
first, but she has a serious
boyfriend, and he's from another
00:16:51.50\00:16:55.83
country, so they're kinda doing
the long distance thing, he was
00:16:55.83\00:16:58.50
just here visiting, I
got a chance to meet him.
00:16:58.50\00:17:00.20
Really great guy, actually.
00:17:00.20\00:17:01.50
After visiting with her last
night, I was even more impressed
00:17:01.50\00:17:03.33
with him and just the way that
he's carrying himself toward
00:17:03.33\00:17:06.36
her, the way that she's carrying
herself toward him, there is a
00:17:06.36\00:17:08.26
responsibility there that
I was really pleased to see.
00:17:08.26\00:17:11.60
Well, in the context of that,
she, and I'm so thankful that I
00:17:11.80\00:17:14.80
have a relationship with her
like this, and my wife does as
00:17:14.80\00:17:17.46
well.
00:17:17.46\00:17:18.10
She's asking us questions.
00:17:18.10\00:17:19.33
Like, what's appropriate?
00:17:19.80\00:17:22.56
How do I know that he loves me?
00:17:22.56\00:17:24.13
How do I know that I love him?
00:17:24.13\00:17:25.86
What should we be doing?
00:17:25.86\00:17:26.70
What shouldn't we be doing?
00:17:26.70\00:17:27.93
And I'm just thrilled in my
innermost soul that here, you
00:17:27.93\00:17:30.40
have a 19 year old young lady,
she's beautiful and she's asking
00:17:30.40\00:17:33.46
these kinds of questions.
00:17:33.46\00:17:35.03
Well, in the context of that,
last night, what I said to her,
00:17:35.76\00:17:38.10
Ty, one of the things I
said was, here's the thing,
00:17:38.10\00:17:40.00
a Christian relationship, a
biblically based relationship is
00:17:40.96\00:17:43.70
seemingly crazy because you're
going into it saying, what I
00:17:43.70\00:17:48.30
want out of this is the
best good of the other person.
00:17:48.30\00:17:51.60
And if the other person
is coming in with that same
00:17:52.50\00:17:54.43
mentality and perspective, and
that's what you're figuring out
00:17:54.43\00:17:56.86
during the courting, dating, and
engagement period, you figure
00:17:56.86\00:17:59.23
out, hey, this person really has
my best interest in mind, too.
00:17:59.23\00:18:01.63
There is such a freedom and a
liberty in knowing that you both
00:18:01.63\00:18:05.80
want the same thing.
00:18:05.80\00:18:06.80
This person wants the
best good of this person.
00:18:06.80\00:18:08.60
This person wants the
best good of this person.
00:18:08.60\00:18:09.93
So, what you both want
is the best good of us.
00:18:09.93\00:18:12.10
This new thing
that's been created.
00:18:12.63\00:18:13.83
I said, but when both
people, as it were, back into a
00:18:13.83\00:18:16.73
relationship, protecting what's
theirs, and the other person's
00:18:16.73\00:18:20.16
backing in and you're both, you
can get that to work for a year
00:18:20.16\00:18:23.10
or 5 or maybe even 10, you can
pull it off, but if at the end
00:18:23.10\00:18:26.36
of the day, the overarching
theme of your marriage is, I'm
00:18:26.36\00:18:30.30
gonna keep what's mine and
we get along pretty good and I
00:18:30.30\00:18:32.93
think you're fun and we both
enjoy skiing, but I'm looking
00:18:32.93\00:18:36.40
out for what's me.
00:18:36.40\00:18:37.36
And here's something I said to
her, I was even surprised when
00:18:38.63\00:18:39.73
this came out of my
mouth, I said, many people, the
00:18:39.73\00:18:42.00
relationship that they have with
their spouse, or their boyfriend
00:18:42.00\00:18:45.16
or their girlfriend or whatever,
they're in a relationship with
00:18:45.16\00:18:47.46
that person because the way that
that person makes them feel.
00:18:47.46\00:18:50.66
--I'm being fed by you.
00:18:51.30\00:18:52.73
--I was kinda surprised that I
said this, but I said that is a
00:18:52.73\00:18:55.76
kind of social masturbation.
00:18:55.76\00:18:57.83
Because really, what it is,
is I'm loving me through you.
00:18:58.66\00:19:01.46
--You're a tool.
00:19:01.80\00:19:02.66
--Exactly, exactly.
00:19:03.36\00:19:04.56
I'm loving me through you,
rather than I'm loving you, like
00:19:04.56\00:19:06.76
you did with your father.
00:19:06.76\00:19:07.66
There's such a liberation in
that, to not always be looking
00:19:08.90\00:19:11.20
out for yourself.
00:19:11.20\00:19:12.03
And I tell you, it just thrilled
my soul to see this lovely young
00:19:13.30\00:19:17.26
growing, because I've known
her since she was young, 19 year
00:19:17.26\00:19:19.76
old, just, and she's getting it.
00:19:19.76\00:19:22.33
She's getting and she's living
with our family, Violet and I
00:19:22.53\00:19:25.10
have been married now for almost
15 years and we're deeply in
00:19:25.10\00:19:27.76
love.
00:19:27.76\00:19:28.43
And she's seeing,
oh, so this can work.
00:19:29.36\00:19:30.56
We're not yelling, we're
not screaming, that's just not
00:19:31.00\00:19:33.40
happening in our home.
00:19:33.40\00:19:34.06
So, she's saying,
how do you, how do you?
00:19:35.03\00:19:37.36
--That's some good premarital
counselling that you're giving.
00:19:37.93\00:19:41.70
I have to admit that I'm more
of a sinner than you because you
00:19:41.70\00:19:44.43
all know this young lady I'm
talking about, she's one of our
00:19:44.43\00:19:46.83
students, but she's developing
a relationship with somebody you
00:19:46.83\00:19:50.63
all know who is also a student
of ours, a former student of
00:19:50.63\00:19:54.30
ours.
00:19:54.30\00:19:55.23
So, she sends me an
email, just yesterday.
00:19:55.23\00:19:57.46
Actually, a direct message
on Twitter, and she says,
00:19:57.96\00:20:01.20
guess what.
00:20:01.60\00:20:02.93
And I said, I can't guess.
00:20:02.93\00:20:04.26
I'm in a
relationship, guess who.
00:20:04.26\00:20:06.90
I guessed the wrong person.
00:20:06.90\00:20:08.53
Well, who's he?
00:20:08.53\00:20:09.90
She says.
00:20:09.90\00:20:10.20
So, then, she
tells me who it is.
00:20:12.06\00:20:15.73
And I say, can you
give him a message for me?
00:20:16.16\00:20:18.06
She says, yes.
00:20:18.30\00:20:19.03
Tell him that I love him dearly
but I love you massively and
00:20:20.26\00:20:24.00
that if he hurts you, I'm
willing to serve a life sentence
00:20:24.00\00:20:26.43
in prison to
rectify the situation.
00:20:26.43\00:20:29.36
So, she actually passed the
message on to the guy and then I
00:20:29.36\00:20:31.76
started feeling guilty.
00:20:31.76\00:20:32.90
So, you did a
better job than me.
00:20:32.90\00:20:33.93
--Pre-marriage
counselling with Ty.
00:20:33.93\00:20:36.00
If you mess with this girl.
00:20:36.00\00:20:37.43
--I'll kill you.
00:20:37.43\00:20:38.86
--I will spend
my life in prison.
00:20:38.86\00:20:40.90
--It's okay in
prison, I like to read.
00:20:41.20\00:20:42.63
Anyways, we have to take a
break, and then, we'll come back
00:20:44.00\00:20:45.86
and we'll continue
flushing out the sin problem.
00:20:45.86\00:20:49.23
--Excellent.
00:20:49.23\00:20:50.93
[Music]
00:20:50.93\00:20:58.60
--This is the story of Niyima,
who took a bus to the doctor and
00:21:03.36\00:21:08.36
found a piece of paper with
words of hope about Jesus, which
00:21:08.36\00:21:13.33
was left by a church member who
unpacked a box that came from a
00:21:13.33\00:21:17.50
truck which drove in from Durban
where a ship was docked that
00:21:17.50\00:21:22.00
sailed from Seattle, loaded with
containers stacked high with
00:21:22.00\00:21:27.13
millions of tracts, trucked
in from the Light Bearers
00:21:27.13\00:21:30.60
Publishing House, where
more than 600 million pieces of
00:21:30.60\00:21:34.53
gospel literature have
been printed in 42 languages.
00:21:34.53\00:21:38.43
Here's the amazing thing,
Light Bearers distributes this
00:21:39.36\00:21:42.56
literature free of charge all
over the world, and each piece
00:21:42.56\00:21:47.53
costs only 5 pennies to
print, transport, and deliver.
00:21:47.53\00:21:51.26
Every day, millions of
people buy a $5 cup of coffee,
00:21:53.66\00:21:56.96
$5 a cup, 5 days a week.
00:21:58.33\00:22:00.76
It adds up fast.
00:22:01.80\00:22:02.63
But at just 5 cents apiece,
that same $25 can also ship 500
00:22:03.83\00:22:09.53
pieces of literature and give
hope to people like Niyima, who
00:22:09.53\00:22:15.96
shared that paper with a
classmate, who gave it to her
00:22:15.96\00:22:19.06
cousin, who shared it with
his boss, who passed it to her
00:22:19.06\00:22:23.20
grandmother, who left it on
another bus, where it will be
00:22:23.20\00:22:28.06
found by someone else.
00:22:28.06\00:22:29.53
And the story continues.
00:22:31.06\00:22:32.36
Five cents doesn't buy a lot
these days, but in other parts
00:22:34.53\00:22:37.60
of the world, your nickel
could change someone's life.
00:22:37.60\00:22:41.20
Your gift of $25 a month
sends out 6,000 pieces of gospel
00:22:42.46\00:22:46.76
literature each year.
00:22:46.76\00:22:47.93
Fifty dollars sends out 12,000,
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00:22:53.83\00:22:59.06
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00:23:00.80\00:23:03.20
Send your gift through
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00:23:04.10\00:23:07.70
877-585-1111.
00:23:07.70\00:23:11.60
Who knew 5 little
pennies could do so much?
00:23:12.70\00:23:14.96
[Music]
00:23:16.96\00:23:23.03
--We're talking about the sin
problem and we're discovering
00:23:23.03\00:23:26.66
that sin is a very practical
thing, it's a very relational
00:23:26.66\00:23:30.53
thing, not to make it sound
good, it's bad, it's on the bad
00:23:30.53\00:23:33.00
end of the relationships that
we have with God and with one
00:23:33.00\00:23:37.73
another.
00:23:37.73\00:23:39.00
But I think we've made, we've
made some really good strides
00:23:39.00\00:23:42.63
for ourselves and maybe for
others who are sitting in on the
00:23:42.63\00:23:45.83
conversation to define
sin in language that helps us
00:23:45.83\00:23:51.50
understand that number one,
sin is relational breakdown, and
00:23:51.50\00:23:55.70
number two, God is in favor of
relational beauty and integrity
00:23:55.70\00:24:00.33
and he wants us to have
relationships that flourish on
00:24:00.33\00:24:04.16
all levels in every
way, but the problem is..
00:24:04.16\00:24:07.90
--The horizontal,
vertical and horizontal.
00:24:07.90\00:24:09.03
--Yeah, vertical and the
horizontal, but the problem is
00:24:09.03\00:24:11.76
that we as human beings
are messed up from the word go.
00:24:11.76\00:24:15.73
The bible goes so far, and we'll
see this text in a moment, there
00:24:16.53\00:24:20.00
is not righteous, no, not one,
but we were in Genesis, I'd like
00:24:20.00\00:24:24.40
to direct our attention and
just see what emerges from the
00:24:24.40\00:24:28.46
conversation, to 2 bible verses
in the Old Testament that I
00:24:28.46\00:24:32.83
think say a lot
about the sin problem.
00:24:32.83\00:24:35.06
The first one is in Isaiah
chapter 1, see what you guys
00:24:35.06\00:24:38.26
think of this, Isaiah chapter
1, and there is a local historic
00:24:38.26\00:24:43.70
application because Isaiah
is addressing God through Isaiah
00:24:43.70\00:24:47.83
the prophet, is addressing
the specific local historic
00:24:47.83\00:24:52.73
dysfunction of his people,
Israel, at this juncture of
00:24:52.73\00:24:55.36
their history, okay, so that's
the backdrop, but the language
00:24:55.36\00:24:58.66
is so applicable to the human
condition as a whole in verses 5
00:24:58.66\00:25:03.06
and 6.
00:25:03.06\00:25:04.40
This is God
speaking through Isaiah.
00:25:04.40\00:25:07.16
Why should you be stricken,
notice the language, stricken
00:25:07.66\00:25:11.06
again?
00:25:11.06\00:25:11.93
You will revolt more and more.
00:25:11.93\00:25:14.86
The whole head is sick
and the whole heart faints.
00:25:15.63\00:25:20.26
From the sole of the foot
even to the head, there is no
00:25:21.03\00:25:23.73
soundness in it, but wounds and
bruises and putrefying sores.
00:25:23.73\00:25:30.30
They have not been closed
or bound up or soothed with
00:25:30.60\00:25:34.23
ointment.
00:25:34.23\00:25:35.00
So, this is
medical language, right?
00:25:35.86\00:25:37.93
He's using words
like stricken, sick.
00:25:38.20\00:25:42.20
--Putrefying sores.
00:25:42.20\00:25:43.66
--Putrefying sores.
00:25:43.66\00:25:44.70
That's strong
language, isn't it?
00:25:44.70\00:25:46.80
--It's a visual.
00:25:46.80\00:25:48.06
--Okay, so, it's all physical
language, it's medical language,
00:25:48.06\00:25:50.00
and it says that we
have bruises and wounds.
00:25:50.00\00:25:52.56
Now, I just wanna point this
out, because I think this is
00:25:52.56\00:25:56.06
true to the text, God is
not assessing their physical
00:25:56.06\00:26:00.40
condition.
00:26:00.40\00:26:01.20
He's not looking at their bodies
and saying, hey, I see a bruise
00:26:02.46\00:26:04.53
on your right arm.
00:26:04.53\00:26:08.16
You need to bandage that up.
00:26:08.16\00:26:09.43
And he's not saying you need to
have some kind of ointment, some
00:26:09.43\00:26:13.56
kind of healing ointment that's
made of, you know, Echinacea and
00:26:13.56\00:26:16.96
bee pollen.
00:26:16.96\00:26:18.63
Okay, he's not
talking about physical stuff.
00:26:18.63\00:26:21.00
He's talking about the physical
realm in order to talk about
00:26:21.00\00:26:25.33
things that are going on in our
psyches, in our minds, in our
00:26:25.33\00:26:28.23
hearts, in our
emotions, in our relationships.
00:26:28.23\00:26:30.26
And so, if you take it that way,
when he says the whole head is
00:26:30.26\00:26:34.03
sick and the heart faints, he's
basically saying, of the human
00:26:34.03\00:26:37.53
race, of all of us, even those
at this table, he's saying, my
00:26:37.53\00:26:42.36
diagnosis is this, you are
psychologically and emotionally
00:26:42.36\00:26:46.53
ill.
00:26:46.53\00:26:47.53
You are sick in the head.
00:26:48.03\00:26:49.40
You are dysfunctional on every
level of your operations as a
00:26:49.83\00:26:54.56
human being.
00:26:54.56\00:26:55.36
The way you think, the way
you feel and emote and process
00:26:56.56\00:27:00.23
things, the way
you relate to people.
00:27:00.23\00:27:03.13
All your
interactions are dysfunctional.
00:27:03.46\00:27:06.80
That's what God is
basically saying to us here.
00:27:07.00\00:27:09.53
You look in the mirror every
morning, you brush your teeth,
00:27:09.53\00:27:13.13
you shave, you comb your hair.
00:27:13.13\00:27:14.53
You are looking into
the eyes of a crazy person.
00:27:14.53\00:27:17.53
You are looking into the eyes of
somebody who is teetering on the
00:27:18.36\00:27:20.56
edge and but for the grace
of God, there is no telling what
00:27:20.56\00:27:25.06
you and I are capable of.
00:27:25.06\00:27:25.96
--You know, what's
really interesting here, Ty is.
00:27:27.03\00:27:28.30
--I'm serious, Jeffery.
00:27:28.30\00:27:29.86
--That's depressing.
00:27:29.86\00:27:30.86
--Well, hey, we gotta
go down in order to go up.
00:27:30.86\00:27:32.83
--You keep looking straight
at me as you're saying that.
00:27:33.23\00:27:35.03
--I'm looking into the
eyes of a crazy person.
00:27:35.03\00:27:38.06
--But that's a powerful summary.
00:27:39.13\00:27:41.56
--It is, and we're talking about
this in the context of verse 4,
00:27:41.90\00:27:44.73
which, also, in the context of
our conversation is sin, we're
00:27:44.73\00:27:48.50
defining sin, we're defining it
in relational language in which
00:27:48.50\00:27:51.96
we're talking about it as it
affects our emotions and how we
00:27:51.96\00:27:54.43
interact with one another.
00:27:54.43\00:27:55.66
Before God gets into that
somewhat cryptic, or we should
00:27:55.66\00:27:59.36
say, symbolic description,
verses 5 and 6, he says in verse
00:27:59.36\00:28:03.46
4, ah, sinful nation.
00:28:03.46\00:28:05.76
A people laden with iniquity, a
seed of evildoers, children that
00:28:06.36\00:28:10.56
are corrupters that
have forsaken the Lord.
00:28:10.56\00:28:12.80
Now, notice this, this
verse, these verses, are again,
00:28:13.00\00:28:15.96
augmenting and confirming
our understanding of how sin is
00:28:15.96\00:28:20.16
relational.
00:28:20.16\00:28:21.40
Not only is it defined here
as sinful, corrupt iniquity, but
00:28:21.80\00:28:26.63
it's also summarized with this
phrase, who hath forsaken the
00:28:26.63\00:28:29.90
Lord?
00:28:29.90\00:28:31.16
You've forsaken the Lord, you've
forsaken your relationship with
00:28:31.16\00:28:32.60
God, you're not connected
to him, and therefore, you have
00:28:32.60\00:28:36.00
these wounds and these bruises
and these putrefying sores, and
00:28:36.00\00:28:38.83
they haven't been mullified,
they haven't been healed, they
00:28:38.83\00:28:42.23
haven't even been tended to,
they're just open and they're
00:28:42.23\00:28:44.63
just putrefying,
they're just rotting.
00:28:44.63\00:28:46.53
--When you have an
open wound, it stinks.
00:28:46.53\00:28:50.90
We come into one another's
proximity in relationships and
00:28:52.30\00:28:56.13
we notice things
about each other.
00:28:56.13\00:28:57.63
And the closer you come to any
one of us as human beings, you
00:28:58.03\00:29:02.53
start noticing some things that
are disconcerting and we realize
00:29:02.53\00:29:08.76
that people are walking
with limps, not physical limps
00:29:08.76\00:29:11.90
necessarily, people are
walking with spiritual and
00:29:11.90\00:29:14.56
psychological,
emotional, relational limps.
00:29:14.56\00:29:16.96
People are
sensitive to the touch.
00:29:16.96\00:29:19.13
You know, sometimes you say
something to somebody that you
00:29:19.40\00:29:22.06
think is just, you
know, nothing, it doesn't mean
00:29:22.06\00:29:24.66
anything, you're just reaching
out with your words, you say
00:29:24.66\00:29:26.33
something and they react.
00:29:26.33\00:29:28.26
Why are they reacting?
00:29:29.33\00:29:30.40
Why are they reacting?
00:29:31.10\00:29:32.36
They're reacting because you
just touched a sensitive area.
00:29:32.60\00:29:36.56
You sense something,
00:29:36.56\00:29:37.43
--I have to tell this story.
00:29:37.43\00:29:38.10
--you touched a wound.
00:29:38.10\00:29:38.63
--What did you say to who?
00:29:40.70\00:29:41.70
--Oh, no, no.
00:29:41.70\00:29:42.46
Okay.
00:29:42.46\00:29:43.53
--David, we know you
say things to people that...
00:29:43.53\00:29:44.80
--I know, I'm a bad human being
about that, but I was with this
00:29:44.80\00:29:46.96
person not too long ago, and we
were sitting in a group, and I'm
00:29:46.96\00:29:50.70
just talking as I'm, you know, I
just talk and just being me and
00:29:50.70\00:29:53.46
just talking, and we
started talking about, you know,
00:29:53.46\00:29:56.30
muscles, and, oh, yeah, you know
you've got muscles or whatever.
00:29:56.30\00:29:58.90
There was guys and girls in
the conversation and somebody
00:29:58.90\00:30:01.20
mentioned something about how
they had really small wrists, it
00:30:01.20\00:30:04.16
was a guy, he went, yeah,
I have kinda small wrists.
00:30:04.16\00:30:05.70
And I was sitting next to this
girl who's a good friend of the
00:30:05.70\00:30:08.60
family's absolutely beautiful,
just such a godly Christian
00:30:08.60\00:30:11.66
woman, and I grab her hand
and I'm like, like, look at your
00:30:11.66\00:30:15.90
wrists, they're
really big and thick,
00:30:15.90\00:30:17.83
and I'm talking
to a woman, right?
00:30:19.36\00:30:21.20
And she's like, yeah, and she's
goes on, so anyway, I think
00:30:21.20\00:30:24.03
nothing of it, the
conversation continues to go.
00:30:24.03\00:30:26.06
So, the next day, one of
our friends comes up to me, and
00:30:26.46\00:30:30.16
she's like, I can't believe
what you said to...and I'm like,
00:30:30.16\00:30:32.96
what?
00:30:32.96\00:30:34.16
Just a roladex in the mind
trying to think of what I said,
00:30:34.16\00:30:37.06
and she's like,
you hurt her deeply.
00:30:37.06\00:30:39.06
I'm like, I love this person.
00:30:39.06\00:30:40.76
What could I have said?
00:30:40.76\00:30:42.86
And she's like, never talk about
a woman's appearance, much less
00:30:42.86\00:30:46.40
say that she has thick wrists.
00:30:46.40\00:30:48.83
And I was like, but the point
is, I don't think she was being
00:30:50.10\00:30:54.53
overly sensitive, I think I
was being insensitive, but the
00:30:54.53\00:30:58.63
larger point is, it's not who
was at fault, whether I was just
00:30:58.63\00:31:01.10
being insensitive, but the point
is, people are sensitive about
00:31:01.10\00:31:04.16
those, you can say something
and not even know that you're
00:31:04.16\00:31:06.90
touching a nerve or a wound
with somebody because we're all,
00:31:06.90\00:31:10.10
there are things that you could
say that would wound me, or I
00:31:11.30\00:31:13.83
should say, would touch me
in places that I already have
00:31:13.83\00:31:15.86
wounds and brokenness.
00:31:15.86\00:31:17.23
And so, too, with each of us,
there is this, I loved it when
00:31:17.50\00:31:21.06
you said, God, you know, Doctor
God, that's kind of the picture
00:31:21.06\00:31:23.40
that emerges.
00:31:23.40\00:31:24.06
He diagnoses the situation.
00:31:24.06\00:31:25.76
And God's diagnosis is not
different for Ty and James and
00:31:26.26\00:31:29.70
Jeffery and this lady, you
know, I said had large wrists.
00:31:29.70\00:31:32.90
None of that.
00:31:32.90\00:31:34.00
His diagnosis, although
the manifestations might be
00:31:34.00\00:31:35.96
different.
00:31:35.96\00:31:37.20
We all have the same disease.
00:31:37.20\00:31:39.40
And the disease is a fundamental
brokenness in our relational
00:31:39.40\00:31:43.63
nature which inclines us to
self-preservation, at times,
00:31:43.63\00:31:48.30
self-exaltation
and just selfishness.
00:31:48.30\00:31:51.40
--I used to see, just to take
this a step further, we all have
00:31:52.46\00:31:57.20
interactions
with a lot of people.
00:31:57.20\00:31:59.60
Those of us at this table maybe
more so than the average person
00:32:00.86\00:32:03.46
because we're continually
travelling and staying in
00:32:03.46\00:32:07.30
people's homes even, and we're
being hosted places where we're
00:32:07.30\00:32:11.83
conducting public lectures and
so on, and so we meet a lot of
00:32:11.83\00:32:15.10
people, and I used to pull back,
just emotionally I guess from
00:32:15.10\00:32:22.76
people who were what I would
regard as obnoxious, or somebody
00:32:22.76\00:32:29.13
who is just getting too close
into my space and you can feel
00:32:29.13\00:32:33.96
spray on your face, and you back
up a step, and there are people
00:32:33.96\00:32:37.63
who are insensitive about, yeah,
the shower, there are people
00:32:37.63\00:32:42.36
who, and I used to notice these
things in people's personalities
00:32:42.36\00:32:47.40
and pull back and then, when I
began to understand what's going
00:32:47.40\00:32:51.30
on in the human experience, I
began to realize that these are,
00:32:51.30\00:32:54.36
these things like having, being
opinionated, or being quote
00:32:54.36\00:32:59.83
unquote, loudmouthed, you know,
and just saying things, or being
00:32:59.83\00:33:04.36
obnoxious in personality,
and whatever we notice, and we
00:33:04.36\00:33:09.63
notice these things and people
notice them in us, I began to
00:33:09.63\00:33:13.43
realize these
things are manifestations.
00:33:13.43\00:33:15.80
These are limps,
these are wounds.
00:33:15.80\00:33:19.16
The person who I perceive as
obnoxious and there's no doubt
00:33:19.70\00:33:22.83
about it that somebody, other
people may perceive me as having
00:33:22.83\00:33:25.70
defects of character, and
they do, of course, but all of a
00:33:25.70\00:33:30.30
sudden, I began to realize that
human contact and acceptance and
00:33:30.30\00:33:35.70
drawing close and affirmation
and being friends with somebody
00:33:35.70\00:33:40.73
who's on the margins because
of their limp, they've been
00:33:40.73\00:33:46.56
marginalized and nobody can
stand them, I began to think
00:33:46.56\00:33:50.20
wait a minute, what would
happen if, and I've experienced
00:33:50.20\00:33:53.76
on a number of occasions, now,
over the years, that if you draw
00:33:53.76\00:33:57.06
close to somebody who you
perceive as obnoxious, then
00:33:57.06\00:34:01.96
they begin to draw close
to you, and they begin to
00:34:01.96\00:34:05.96
normalize and you begin
in your obnoxious character
00:34:05.96\00:34:11.06
traits, to normalize
through people's acceptance.
00:34:11.06\00:34:13.46
We shouldn't be pulling
away from people because we see
00:34:13.73\00:34:16.73
things in them
that we don't like.
00:34:16.73\00:34:18.20
We should be going out of our
way to draw close to people that
00:34:18.96\00:34:22.13
we see things in them that we
don't like because they have a
00:34:22.13\00:34:25.06
need and we should
simultaneously realize that
00:34:25.06\00:34:27.43
we're not occupying the high
ground of meeting their need,
00:34:27.43\00:34:30.40
but then, that we ourselves
are in relationships with people
00:34:30.63\00:34:34.56
where we have needs that people
would not be offended by the
00:34:34.56\00:34:38.96
stupid things that we say
and do, but would accept us no
00:34:38.96\00:34:42.00
matter what.
00:34:42.00\00:34:43.26
--I hate to take this back to
Genesis, but I think the point
00:34:43.26\00:34:44.53
you're making is really profound
in relationship to Adam and Eve.
00:34:44.53\00:34:48.23
For example, Eve messed
up and Adam followed suit.
00:34:48.23\00:34:52.76
In how he related to her, when
you take that through to its
00:34:54.23\00:34:57.56
logical conclusion.
00:34:57.56\00:34:58.63
What you're saying here, and
the way it came across to me is
00:34:59.86\00:35:01.86
this, and that is not only
should we not back up from that
00:35:01.86\00:35:05.93
person that's acting that way,
but the very act of backing up
00:35:05.93\00:35:09.83
causes us to be the
very same way they are.
00:35:09.83\00:35:12.56
And the very act of drawing
close to them causes us to lose
00:35:13.33\00:35:17.86
that attitude that's in us
ourselves, because one of the
00:35:17.86\00:35:21.26
reasons we're, in the bible,
in Romans, it says one of the
00:35:21.26\00:35:23.63
reasons why we judge others so
harshly is because we recognize
00:35:23.63\00:35:27.30
in them the very same principles
that we have in our own heart.
00:35:27.30\00:35:31.16
Who are you that judges another
man and you do the same things?
00:35:31.90\00:35:34.26
And what he's saying in there is
when you judge another man and
00:35:34.93\00:35:37.53
you recognize those principles,
when you pull away, you're gonna
00:35:37.53\00:35:40.53
end up doing the same things,
but when you pull near, you now
00:35:40.53\00:35:43.73
are developing a character and
allowing God to work through you
00:35:43.73\00:35:47.46
to actually rid those principles
that are in all of us from your
00:35:47.46\00:35:51.06
own heart.
00:35:51.06\00:35:51.86
--Those limps.
00:35:52.23\00:35:52.76
--Yeah, those limps.
00:35:52.76\00:35:54.03
You're healing yourself in the
process of reaching out to heal
00:35:54.03\00:35:56.43
somebody else.
00:35:56.43\00:35:57.70
--It goes back to what we said
earlier, that all of scripture
00:35:57.70\00:36:00.93
and almost all of human
experience, in some significant
00:36:00.93\00:36:03.73
degree, is a commentary of
Genesis chapter 1, 2, and 3.
00:36:03.73\00:36:07.60
There is such a
density there, psychologically,
00:36:07.60\00:36:11.23
anthropologically, geologically,
I mean just whatever, there's
00:36:11.23\00:36:14.93
just so much in Genesis 1, 2,
and 3, the thing that you were
00:36:14.93\00:36:19.43
just saying reminded me of a
quotation that I just tweeted
00:36:19.43\00:36:21.46
the day before yesterday
from Ralph Waldo Emerson, and he
00:36:21.46\00:36:24.63
says, I love this, it is one of
the beautiful compensations of
00:36:24.63\00:36:28.66
life that no man can sincerely
try to help another without also
00:36:28.66\00:36:33.70
helping himself.
00:36:33.70\00:36:34.73
That's the thing you're saying.
00:36:34.93\00:36:36.16
When you draw near, it's not
just in some great magnanimity
00:36:36.16\00:36:39.76
to be a blessing, you know, in a
condescending way to this other
00:36:39.76\00:36:41.90
person, you yourself are being
oriented around a grander truth.
00:36:41.90\00:36:49.00
And it's not me occupying, as
you said, Ty, the high ground,
00:36:49.20\00:36:51.30
let me stoop down
and help you down here.
00:36:51.30\00:36:53.36
--You're not doing them a favor.
00:36:53.36\00:36:54.63
--You're doing yourself a favor
and them a favor, but both of
00:36:54.63\00:36:56.76
you are being reoriented toward
the vertical, which is the love
00:36:56.76\00:37:00.93
of God, that's the thing.
00:37:00.93\00:37:01.90
--Your cup's being
filled and overflowing.
00:37:01.90\00:37:03.83
--My point was, if I perceive
that you're obnoxious in some
00:37:03.83\00:37:08.13
aspect of your personality,
or that you're annoying, maybe
00:37:08.13\00:37:11.50
that's a better word, I'm really
blind if I don't realize that,
00:37:11.50\00:37:18.56
that thing that I see in you
is not seen in me from somebody
00:37:18.56\00:37:24.36
else.
00:37:24.36\00:37:25.60
--Well, how does God view, I
mean, how is God's perspective
00:37:25.60\00:37:29.93
of us be, and how obnoxious
would we be in God's eyes, if we
00:37:29.93\00:37:33.50
related to other, if God related
to us in the way that we relate
00:37:33.50\00:37:38.46
to other people,
we would be toast.
00:37:38.46\00:37:40.13
--Scripture says that over
and over again, there's a, my
00:37:41.26\00:37:43.20
mother, who is not, she's a
Christian, I wouldn't call her,
00:37:43.20\00:37:46.76
like, a full on, you know,
fundamentalist Christian, but
00:37:46.76\00:37:49.83
early on in my...
00:37:49.83\00:37:51.60
--Which wouldn't be a
compliment, by the way, in my
00:37:52.16\00:37:53.50
opinion, I just
have to throw that out.
00:37:53.50\00:37:54.83
A full on
fundamentalist Christian.
00:37:55.03\00:37:56.33
--No, no, no, that's not a
compliment, in other words,
00:37:56.33\00:37:58.06
she's somebody who loves God and
who takes him seriously and she,
00:37:58.06\00:38:01.96
even early on in my experience,
began to orient me toward this
00:38:01.96\00:38:05.86
other-centeredness, even though
I, you know, it's a lesson hard
00:38:05.86\00:38:08.06
learned, but she cross stitched,
and I still have this, she cross
00:38:08.06\00:38:11.80
stitched this thing for me,
and it was Gandhi that said it,
00:38:11.80\00:38:14.43
actually, and yet, the principle
is absolutely, patently biblical
00:38:14.43\00:38:18.93
and Christian, and he said,
imperfect, ourselves, we must be
00:38:18.93\00:38:23.53
careful in our
treatment of others.
00:38:23.53\00:38:25.63
When we know what our own
brokenness, we should be keenly
00:38:27.20\00:38:32.86
aware that God's perspective
on us is a whole different
00:38:32.86\00:38:35.80
perspective than
my perspective on you.
00:38:35.80\00:38:37.30
I don't occupy some sort of high
ground, and you don't occupy
00:38:37.30\00:38:39.60
some sort of high
ground over and against me.
00:38:39.60\00:38:41.73
God is the one who occupies
the moral high ground of the
00:38:41.73\00:38:44.33
universe.
00:38:44.33\00:38:45.60
He is love in his very nature,
in his very essence, in the very
00:38:45.60\00:38:47.80
fiber and fabric of what
makes God, God, and we are all
00:38:47.80\00:38:51.83
wallowing, according to Doctor
God, in Isaiah 1, with broken
00:38:51.83\00:38:55.73
heads, broken hearts, broken
bodies, broken psyches, broken
00:38:55.73\00:38:57.70
relationships, and the only way
to be reoriented properly toward
00:38:57.70\00:39:02.80
one another is to be reoriented
properly toward him, and it's so
00:39:02.80\00:39:07.90
liberating and it transforms
the landscape of all of your
00:39:07.90\00:39:12.23
relationships, both
familial, friends, coworkers,
00:39:12.23\00:39:15.13
acquaintances, fathers who have
abandoned you, I've had the same
00:39:15.13\00:39:18.93
experience, Ty had
the same experience.
00:39:18.93\00:39:20.23
I mean, every one of us at
this table did not have a strong
00:39:20.23\00:39:24.66
father figure, and yet, there
is such, and my father is still
00:39:24.66\00:39:27.96
alive, even though I've only
talked to him on the phone twice
00:39:27.96\00:39:29.83
and he was totally disinterested
in getting involved.
00:39:29.83\00:39:32.26
But I have such freedom in my
heart toward him, no antagonism,
00:39:32.26\00:39:36.40
nothing.
00:39:36.93\00:39:38.06
It's nothing to me.
00:39:38.06\00:39:39.63
I mean, I would love to,
in fact, right after I got
00:39:39.63\00:39:41.53
converted, I contacted him, I
was 23 years old, got ahold of
00:39:41.53\00:39:44.20
him, and I just wanted to let
him know that I had experienced
00:39:44.20\00:39:49.46
the forgiveness of God in Christ
and I just wanted him to know
00:39:49.46\00:39:52.90
that I forgave him and that was
there, because it must just be
00:39:52.90\00:39:56.80
eating away at him.
00:39:56.80\00:39:57.73
I mean, me and my brother both.
00:39:57.73\00:39:59.06
Where's he?
00:40:00.00\00:40:00.83
--I had the same experience
in mine, you know, we've all
00:40:02.03\00:40:04.76
experienced the abandonment
of the father figure, of course,
00:40:04.76\00:40:08.93
I've never known my father at
all, but I had a stepfather, who
00:40:08.93\00:40:12.46
was extremely violent and just
the mention of his name would
00:40:12.46\00:40:17.86
arouse in my body, my physical
body, kind of a shaking, you
00:40:17.86\00:40:25.03
know, just because of the things
I witnessed that he had done to
00:40:25.03\00:40:29.33
my mother and what a liberation.
00:40:29.33\00:40:32.10
And this wasn't something that
I'd disciplined myself to do, I
00:40:32.10\00:40:35.86
would have to say that
this happened to me almost by
00:40:35.86\00:40:38.96
osmosis, just by acquainting
myself with the gospel and the
00:40:38.96\00:40:43.20
love of God for me, what a
liberation it was to hear his
00:40:43.20\00:40:49.16
name, to think of him, to have
somebody bring him up and to
00:40:49.16\00:40:52.70
genuinely feel nothing
anymore in my body in my heart.
00:40:52.70\00:40:58.13
--Nothing negative.
00:40:58.13\00:40:58.93
--Nothing negative.
00:40:58.93\00:40:59.70
--Just freedom.
00:40:59.70\00:41:00.60
--Yeah, just total freedom.
00:41:00.60\00:41:01.66
I don't hate him.
00:41:01.66\00:41:03.96
He's still alive, I don't hate
him and I think I could have a
00:41:03.96\00:41:07.80
conversation with him.
00:41:07.80\00:41:09.16
Not a warm, fuzzy conversation.
00:41:09.16\00:41:11.60
--But you don't
wanna strangle him.
00:41:11.60\00:41:13.10
--But I'm saying, I don't hate
him, there's no anger there in
00:41:13.10\00:41:18.10
my heart anymore, and that is
not something that I just tried
00:41:18.10\00:41:21.10
hard enough to pull off.
00:41:21.10\00:41:23.36
--I know we have to take a
break, but what I love most
00:41:23.86\00:41:25.13
about what you said there, Ty,
and in addition to the fact that
00:41:25.13\00:41:27.60
God has given you freedom, God
has given you liberty, it's that
00:41:27.60\00:41:30.06
it's not something that you
worked for and you went through
00:41:30.06\00:41:32.40
a program, it was by osmosis,
as you say, just dwelling and
00:41:32.40\00:41:35.40
abiding in the love
of God and in the gospel.
00:41:35.40\00:41:39.13
It's healing you.
00:41:40.00\00:41:41.60
To use the Isaiah 1
metaphor, you are being healed.
00:41:41.60\00:41:45.30
--Incrementally,
God's love permeates.
00:41:46.23\00:41:49.90
--It is with huge theological
implication that when Jesus
00:41:50.13\00:41:53.46
comes, he spends a lot of time
preaching, but he spends even
00:41:53.46\00:41:56.70
more time healing people and
sometimes, explicitly saying,
00:41:56.70\00:42:01.90
I'm healing this person's
physical body so that you can
00:42:01.90\00:42:05.13
know that I have the ability
to heal their relational,
00:42:05.13\00:42:08.83
spiritual,
psychological brokenness.
00:42:08.83\00:42:10.76
--I love what we're saying,
the way that I've spoken it to
00:42:11.83\00:42:16.83
myself at times is the more I
partake of God's love and grace
00:42:16.83\00:42:21.00
and the knowledge of his
love and grace toward me, it
00:42:21.00\00:42:24.53
gradually takes up all the
emotional space inside of me.
00:42:24.53\00:42:29.60
There's darkness over
here, there's anger, there's
00:42:30.36\00:42:32.36
resentment, there's hatred,
there's all this stuff that's
00:42:32.36\00:42:35.20
taking up space inside of our
heads and our hearts, and the
00:42:35.20\00:42:39.00
love of God just permeates and
it just takes up more and more
00:42:39.00\00:42:42.83
space and more and more
space and in the process, it's
00:42:42.83\00:42:44.70
squeezing out
all the other stuff.
00:42:44.70\00:42:48.40
Well, David, you said we have to
take a break and we really do,
00:42:48.80\00:42:50.73
but we do have one final segment
in this particular conversation,
00:42:51.10\00:42:55.93
and I think there's even more.
00:42:55.93\00:42:57.80
I said I had 2 scriptures
in the Old Testament that I was
00:42:57.80\00:43:00.23
wondering, and there's one more
that I'm wondering what you guys
00:43:00.23\00:43:02.66
think of, so we'll talk
about that when we come back.
00:43:02.66\00:43:04.23
[Music]
00:43:06.63\00:43:15.90
--The Light Bearers Story is
a short award-winning video that
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877-585-1111 or write to Light
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Simply ask for the
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00:44:02.33\00:44:04.63
[Music]
00:44:06.56\00:44:13.90
--During the break, something
kind of funny happened, there
00:44:15.90\00:44:19.03
was an evidence of our fallen
condition as a human race,
00:44:19.03\00:44:23.20
because, I don't know why,
but we have some play doh on the
00:44:23.20\00:44:25.43
table and Jeffery....
00:44:25.43\00:44:28.33
--I wish you hadn't called
attention to the fact that we
00:44:28.33\00:44:29.86
have play doh on the table.
00:44:29.86\00:44:31.13
--Jeffery wouldn't touch any
of it because he was afraid that
00:44:31.13\00:44:32.83
our germs or somebody
else's germs were on it.
00:44:32.83\00:44:34.90
So, David gave Jeffery his
own little piece that nobody's
00:44:34.90\00:44:40.60
touched, well now,
David's touched it.
00:44:40.60\00:44:42.36
--Well, I've not
like gooped it up though.
00:44:42.36\00:44:44.13
--Jeffery doesn't want it.
00:44:46.66\00:44:47.93
--You guys have atoms, genes,
and germs and I wanna stay clear
00:44:47.93\00:44:50.70
of it.
00:44:50.70\00:44:51.96
--That brings me to the second
scripture in the Old Testament
00:44:51.96\00:44:54.46
that I'm wondering what you guys
think of because these aren't
00:44:55.33\00:44:57.50
common verses,
this is Jeremiah 17.
00:44:57.50\00:44:59.93
These aren't common verses that
people use to talk about the sin
00:45:00.50\00:45:04.10
problem.
00:45:04.10\00:45:04.83
We just commonly jump to 1 John
3:4, sin is transgression of the
00:45:06.10\00:45:10.03
law, and we focus on the outward
aspect of the problem, but as
00:45:10.03\00:45:17.26
Isaiah 1, which we just covered,
points out, and now Jeremiah 17,
00:45:17.26\00:45:21.43
look at verse 1 and then look at
verse 9, see what you guys think
00:45:21.43\00:45:25.73
here, verse 1, the sin of Judah
is written with a pen of iron,
00:45:25.73\00:45:32.13
with the point of a diamond,
it is engraved on the tablet of
00:45:32.96\00:45:37.56
their heart.
00:45:37.56\00:45:38.50
Now, this is interesting, first
of all, I'm just wondering.
00:45:39.86\00:45:42.36
This language is
obviously metaphoric.
00:45:42.36\00:45:46.03
A pen of iron?
00:45:46.03\00:45:47.56
The point of a diamond?
00:45:48.13\00:45:49.43
These are just hard substances
that can create indelible,
00:45:49.43\00:45:54.13
deeply etched marks, right?
00:45:54.13\00:45:56.46
And where is this deep,
indelible marking taking place?
00:45:57.00\00:46:01.30
It's on the heart, in the heart.
00:46:01.30\00:46:03.73
And notice that it says that
the heart is a tablet, what's a
00:46:03.73\00:46:06.70
tablet?
00:46:06.70\00:46:07.46
Well, a tablet, actually,
this is a tablet, this is an old
00:46:08.70\00:46:10.26
school tablet that I'm using.
00:46:10.26\00:46:11.73
This is a tablet, and here's
a new school tablet, you got the
00:46:12.36\00:46:15.06
iPad here, you got the
iPad mini, what's a tablet?
00:46:15.06\00:46:18.23
A tablet is a device
for accumulating data or
00:46:18.53\00:46:22.76
information.
00:46:22.76\00:46:23.56
So, this scripture literally
says, sin writes things inside
00:46:24.80\00:46:29.80
of us.
00:46:29.80\00:46:30.66
The human heart, the human
psyche, the human conscience is
00:46:31.86\00:46:35.26
a receptacle for outside
influences that make their
00:46:35.26\00:46:41.60
indelible
impression on the inside.
00:46:41.60\00:46:43.50
Guilt is accumulated inside
of us through the commission of
00:46:44.36\00:46:48.03
sin.
00:46:48.03\00:46:48.70
Habit patterns are
formed through committing sin.
00:46:49.76\00:46:52.46
But then in verse 9, it's just
amazing what he says here, the
00:46:52.80\00:46:57.23
heart, that is the heart that in
verse 1, has sin inscribed in it
00:46:57.23\00:47:00.63
with the point of a
diamond, as it were.
00:47:00.63\00:47:03.36
The heart is deceitful above all
things and desperately wicked,
00:47:03.90\00:47:07.53
and then this
question, who can know it?
00:47:08.16\00:47:11.10
So, here, Jeremiah is basically
saying, the sin problem not only
00:47:12.86\00:47:18.66
involves the outward commission
of sin, the outward violations
00:47:18.66\00:47:23.76
of relationships, it also
involves an inner dimension of
00:47:23.76\00:47:28.56
sin being written on our hearts
and then he says that we're so
00:47:28.56\00:47:34.43
desperately and deeply and
profoundly wicked that we don't
00:47:34.43\00:47:39.13
even know ourselves.
00:47:39.13\00:47:40.26
We don't know truly how
dysfunctional, broken, wounded,
00:47:41.03\00:47:44.73
damaged, depraved,
that we really are.
00:47:44.73\00:47:47.70
And when it says that our hearts
are deceitful and who can know
00:47:48.40\00:47:51.03
it, one of the ways that we
manifest our brokenness is that
00:47:51.03\00:47:57.06
we basically lie, to
ourselves and to others.
00:47:57.06\00:48:01.76
We project, we project personas,
we come up with, you know,
00:48:02.70\00:48:06.90
somebody has neglected their
children for years and years and
00:48:06.90\00:48:11.13
years, and the way they
compensate for that is by
00:48:11.13\00:48:14.16
building a false
narrative that elevates them.
00:48:14.16\00:48:17.66
Well, I'm a workaholic.
00:48:17.86\00:48:18.83
Well, it's a little bit
demeaning to confess, I'm a
00:48:19.93\00:48:22.56
workaholic, but actually, it
elevates me in my estimation so
00:48:22.56\00:48:26.86
I don't have to cope with the
deeper issues that I ruined my
00:48:26.86\00:48:30.06
relationship with my children
by pursuing money and career and
00:48:30.06\00:48:33.83
profession, but I compensate
for it by viewing myself in a
00:48:33.83\00:48:40.10
deceptive way.
00:48:40.10\00:48:41.03
I don't face the thing that's
really there, I deceive myself,
00:48:42.30\00:48:46.10
the heart is deceitful above
all things, who can know it?
00:48:46.10\00:48:48.53
I don't know how truly fallen,
broken, damaged, wicked I am.
00:48:48.73\00:48:54.03
--I don't understand myself.
00:48:54.93\00:48:56.06
But I love verse 10, is the
answer to who can know it, verse
00:48:57.30\00:48:59.10
10, I the Lord search the heart.
00:48:59.10\00:49:01.33
I test the mind.
00:49:02.10\00:49:03.10
--He's the doctor,
he's the one that can give.
00:49:04.00\00:49:06.53
--You need God in
order to understand yourself.
00:49:06.53\00:49:07.76
--That's right.
00:49:08.63\00:49:09.90
--A couple, oh, I don't know,
if it was two conversations ago,
00:49:09.90\00:49:11.90
but I mentioned
this fantastic quotation.
00:49:11.90\00:49:14.10
I'll have to actually
bring up the full quotation.
00:49:14.10\00:49:16.50
By Blaise Pascal, where
he basically says, without an
00:49:16.50\00:49:19.16
understanding of the sinfulness
that is innate to us and within
00:49:19.16\00:49:24.16
us as a result of the fall
described in Genesis 3, he says,
00:49:24.16\00:49:28.30
we remain
incomprehensible to ourselves.
00:49:28.30\00:49:30.70
We have, and then he goes on
to say, because we are, we find
00:49:32.46\00:49:35.36
ourselves, you know, battered
between two positions, having a
00:49:35.36\00:49:38.66
desire for goodness and love,
but an incapacity to do it.
00:49:38.66\00:49:42.90
--Yeah, we're morally bankrupt.
00:49:43.13\00:49:44.46
--He said if we had no desire,
we would be only like the
00:49:44.46\00:49:45.76
beasts, right?
00:49:45.76\00:49:46.76
We'd just, we're just a bundle
of desires and we do the thing,
00:49:48.03\00:49:49.50
but we have this moral desire
or longing for something more.
00:49:49.50\00:49:54.56
We have a sense that we were
made for something greater, but
00:49:54.56\00:49:56.63
we have an
inability to attain to it.
00:49:56.63\00:49:58.36
So, we're trapped
between a longing for this, or a
00:49:58.36\00:50:02.06
connection to this being
enslaved to this but a longing
00:50:02.06\00:50:05.26
for this, and he says, we're
incomprehensible to ourselves.
00:50:05.26\00:50:07.60
--That just reminds me of
my whole conversion experience.
00:50:08.06\00:50:10.66
I remember in my early years,
teenage years and when I became
00:50:10.66\00:50:16.26
a Christian at 21, I remember
having that whole experience.
00:50:16.26\00:50:19.46
I remember one day, just looking
out the window, it was winter,
00:50:19.46\00:50:23.03
there was snow on the ground,
and we lived in a neighborhood
00:50:23.03\00:50:26.26
with a slight hill and my
friends were in the home and we
00:50:26.26\00:50:29.80
were all just kinda listening to
rock and roll music and partying
00:50:29.80\00:50:33.03
and whatever and there was a
car that was driving up the hill
00:50:33.03\00:50:36.63
really slowly, and one of the
reasons it was driving up the
00:50:36.63\00:50:39.13
hill really slowly is because
it was wintertime and there was
00:50:39.13\00:50:41.76
snow on the ground and it
couldn't get traction, and so it
00:50:41.76\00:50:44.90
was driving up the hill really
slowly and my friends, you know,
00:50:44.90\00:50:48.26
when you're standing there
looking out the window, people,
00:50:48.26\00:50:50.16
you know, you're in a community,
they'll come over, hey, what're
00:50:50.16\00:50:52.66
you looking at, so we're all,
so everyone comes over to the
00:50:52.66\00:50:55.16
window and they're all looking
at this car, we all start
00:50:55.16\00:50:56.60
looking at this car and we're
noticing the predicament it's in
00:50:56.60\00:50:59.36
and everyone just starts
laughing, oh, come and look at
00:50:59.36\00:51:02.10
this, this guy can't get up the
hill, this guy can't get up the
00:51:02.10\00:51:03.66
hill, this guy can't get up, and
normally, that's what I would
00:51:03.66\00:51:07.70
do, that's the way I would
think, I would just, ah, yeah,
00:51:07.70\00:51:09.43
look at that, it's so funny.
00:51:09.43\00:51:10.50
But there was something in me,
as you describe it there, that
00:51:11.76\00:51:14.20
wanted to be more than just a
part of the heard and something
00:51:14.20\00:51:19.30
in me that was looking at that
situation in a different way,
00:51:19.30\00:51:23.40
like you said, looking for
something that was higher than
00:51:23.60\00:51:26.43
just this animal mentality
of ah-ha-ha you know, type of
00:51:26.43\00:51:29.90
thing.
00:51:29.90\00:51:31.00
And something prompted me to
say something that was really
00:51:32.20\00:51:34.40
strange to
everyone, including myself.
00:51:34.40\00:51:36.83
I said, we should go
out there and help him.
00:51:37.23\00:51:38.53
And I'm telling you what, it was
so weird because I said, did I
00:51:39.23\00:51:42.36
say that?
00:51:42.36\00:51:44.63
And we did, we all went out
there and we helped push that
00:51:44.63\00:51:47.50
car, and you know what was
really interesting, what was
00:51:47.50\00:51:48.90
really interesting is, we went
out there, we helped push that
00:51:48.90\00:51:52.20
car up the hill, and
all of us felt great.
00:51:52.20\00:51:55.73
And all of a sudden it was all
of a sudden like, you know what?
00:51:56.53\00:51:58.76
This is what I was made for.
00:51:58.76\00:52:00.86
This is what we're made for.
00:52:01.73\00:52:03.03
--That's the Emerson quote.
00:52:03.36\00:52:04.46
One of the beautiful
compensations of life that no
00:52:04.46\00:52:06.23
man can sincerely help
another without also benefitting
00:52:06.23\00:52:09.36
himself.
00:52:09.36\00:52:10.06
God has made the
universe to work that way.
00:52:11.03\00:52:12.23
--Yes, and that was a
major component in my shift of
00:52:13.00\00:52:15.66
direction in life.
00:52:15.66\00:52:16.46
Majorly, just that
little thing right there.
00:52:17.43\00:52:18.43
--It is amazing how the
little things stick with you.
00:52:19.56\00:52:20.66
When I look back over the
things, it's not the, you know,
00:52:21.86\00:52:23.00
it's not always the big,
monumental, it's the little
00:52:23.00\00:52:25.60
conversations, I can
resonate very much with that.
00:52:25.60\00:52:28.66
Something that occurred to
me about the text, you're going
00:52:28.66\00:52:32.20
back to the text, is that if
you have to write something with
00:52:32.20\00:52:34.50
iron and a diamond, what
does that tell you about the
00:52:34.50\00:52:36.70
substance on
which you're writing.
00:52:36.70\00:52:38.33
--It's hard.
00:52:38.63\00:52:39.90
--We have play doh here, right,
so if you flatten a play doh,
00:52:39.90\00:52:42.13
you can make a impress, because
it's soft, it's pliable and it's
00:52:42.13\00:52:45.80
easy to write, but if
God says, oh, on your heart?
00:52:45.80\00:52:48.40
Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:52:48.93\00:52:49.93
--I have to use iron.
00:52:49.93\00:52:51.13
--Iron and diamonds to write
on your heart, and to sort of
00:52:51.13\00:52:52.70
utilize another, the
same biblical metaphor, but in
00:52:52.70\00:52:55.53
another biblical context,
Ezekiel 36, it talks about your
00:52:55.53\00:52:58.30
heart is stony, right, your
heart is made of stone and it's
00:52:58.30\00:53:03.16
such a rock hard stone that I
can just only barely etch with,
00:53:03.16\00:53:08.53
as it were, a diamond
and iron into your heart.
00:53:08.53\00:53:11.20
That tells us that,
that hardness is a concrete
00:53:11.43\00:53:16.06
solidification of our heart
in a certain direction and in a
00:53:16.06\00:53:20.00
certain bend, that thing that
we were describing, being locked
00:53:20.00\00:53:22.70
into this, but longing for this.
00:53:22.70\00:53:24.60
It's a moral hell is what it is.
00:53:25.03\00:53:26.76
--And also, the context of
it is, if something is that hard
00:53:26.76\00:53:30.70
that it needs a diamond to write
into, it's, you can't remove it.
00:53:30.70\00:53:33.53
Sin is written
with the pen of iron.
00:53:33.53\00:53:36.40
So, this is an immovable,
this is an immovable thing that
00:53:36.40\00:53:41.36
you're dealing with here, it's
in our nature, and you can't
00:53:41.36\00:53:43.66
just erase it.
00:53:43.66\00:53:45.13
You can't just reform it.
00:53:45.36\00:53:47.16
--Great point.
00:53:47.16\00:53:47.76
--James, what you were saying
triggered some memories in my
00:53:49.03\00:53:51.40
mind because this text is
saying that the human heart is
00:53:51.40\00:53:56.03
deceitful above all things, we
imagine ourselves to be elevated
00:53:56.03\00:53:59.70
above others.
00:53:59.70\00:54:00.43
I mentioned a moment ago that I
was raised in a home where there
00:54:01.70\00:54:03.30
was a lot of violence.
00:54:03.30\00:54:04.33
Well, one of the things was,
as a kid and as a teenager, I so
00:54:05.60\00:54:09.93
recoiled at it that said to
myself, I would never, and I
00:54:09.93\00:54:13.70
will never, and I would never
ever do anything like that.
00:54:13.70\00:54:17.46
I imagined that violence was
foreign to my nature, but then I
00:54:17.46\00:54:22.46
found myself in a situation
in the 8th grade with this in my
00:54:22.46\00:54:26.60
background where I'm being
continually pushed around by a
00:54:26.60\00:54:31.66
group of kids because I'm the
new kid in the neighborhood, and
00:54:31.66\00:54:34.50
finally, I find myself, this
person who thinks I could never
00:54:34.50\00:54:38.76
do anything violent at the
urging of the other kids, and
00:54:38.76\00:54:42.23
even at the urging of my
stepfather, I find myself
00:54:42.23\00:54:45.16
sitting over another human being
in the park behind the school
00:54:45.16\00:54:49.46
with my fists clenched,
driving my fists violently,
00:54:49.46\00:54:55.16
uncontrollably, into this other
kid's face, he's bleeding, he's
00:54:55.16\00:55:00.73
beginning to go unconscious and
it takes the other kids to pull
00:55:00.73\00:55:04.23
me off of him.
00:55:04.23\00:55:05.90
This is the kid who
says, I would never do that.
00:55:06.40\00:55:10.36
--But your heart is deceitful.
00:55:10.80\00:55:11.86
--My heart is deceitful,
I'm capable of violence.
00:55:11.86\00:55:16.20
In fact, I say sometimes
in preaching and, inevitably,
00:55:16.90\00:55:21.83
people would come up to me
and say, I don't know if that's
00:55:21.83\00:55:24.03
true, that's pretty dark what
you just said, and here's what
00:55:24.03\00:55:26.26
it is, and I say, you've never
witnessed anything so low, so
00:55:26.26\00:55:29.56
heinous, so horrible that
any human being has ever done in
00:55:29.56\00:55:33.60
history that you yourself would
not do given the same pressures,
00:55:33.60\00:55:39.80
circumstances,
background, you would.
00:55:39.80\00:55:43.46
--Or that you could do.
00:55:43.46\00:55:44.73
--You could do, you're capable
of the worst things imaginable.
00:55:44.73\00:55:47.00
--The same wiring in Cain's head
is the same wiring system that
00:55:47.00\00:55:52.83
you have in your head.
00:55:52.83\00:55:53.80
--Because at the end of the day,
if reality is built around the
00:55:55.06\00:55:57.63
principle of self-preservation,
I have to, whether it takes
00:55:57.63\00:56:01.33
violence, deception,
manipulation, coercion, whatever
00:56:01.33\00:56:05.00
it takes, and here's the
tragedy, and we're getting
00:56:05.00\00:56:07.30
there, but many people imagine
that God is just like that,
00:56:07.30\00:56:10.96
because he's the most powerful
being in the universe, he's
00:56:10.96\00:56:14.26
above, so if everybody's looking
out for their own best interest,
00:56:14.26\00:56:16.36
and God is looking out for
his, who's a match for God?
00:56:16.36\00:56:19.56
--And even when we think that
we're righteous, the only reason
00:56:19.76\00:56:21.80
I haven't done anything crazy is
because you haven't crossed, you
00:56:21.80\00:56:24.30
haven't stepped on my
feet, or my toes sufficiently.
00:56:24.30\00:56:27.06
--Good closing point, because
it's over, but we're gonna come
00:56:27.33\00:56:30.53
back and explore
this subject more.
00:56:30.53\00:56:33.53
[Music]
00:56:33.53\00:56:34.53