Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000012
|
00:01 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:21 >>You guys when I was...when I was just coming to Christ as a 00:23 teenager having grown up in a secular environment with 00:27 absolutely no religious background I encountered within 00:32 the first year I think of my experience with Jesus I 00:37 encountered a guy who didn't believe and I was trying to 00:42 witness to him and I was telling him how the reason why I am a 00:48 Christian now is because Jesus died for me. 00:52 And I was pretty emotional about it because this was new truth 00:56 that I had learned. 00:58 And this guy looked at me, he shook his head and he literally 01:01 laughed at me. 01:02 I thought at first he was laughing with me, did I say 01:05 something funny. 01:06 But he was laughing at me and he proceeded to say basically in so 01:10 many words all it takes is a willingness to suffer a few 01:15 hours of physical torture and then to die in order to be a 01:18 Savior then I can be your savior and you can be mine. 01:21 All kinds of people have died for people down through history. 01:24 Why is this Jesus death on the cross any more significant and 01:28 how is it different than any heroic person dying for 01:32 somebody? 01:34 And that put me into a tailspin as a new Christian. 01:39 I didn't know how to make heads or tails out of the thing. 01:42 All the sudden I realized yeah, lots of people have suffered. 01:45 And then through that crisis I began to study and realize 01:52 through the gospel account that Jesus suffered far more than 01:58 mere physical torture and death. 02:01 That as we discovered in our last conversation Jesus suffered 02:04 in his psyche Matthew 26. 02:08 He suffered a psychological death a psychological trauma in 02:16 Gethsemane leading up to the cross and that experience 02:19 reached its climax of agony when he from Gethsemane came to the 02:25 cross. 02:27 And the words that he cried out in Matthew 27 verse 46 My God, 02:31 my God why have you forsaken me? 02:34 That's where the thing really happened. 02:37 That's where the suffering was occurring. 02:38 This separation that he was feeling between himself and his 02:43 father because of his identification with the human 02:47 race and bearing our sin on our behalf. 02:50 And I saw God's love from a whole new perspective at that 02:57 early stage and it became a really powerful solidifying 03:00 truth for me that the cross of Jesus Christ was a manifestation 03:05 of self-sacrificing love on a level that transcends any human 03:10 suffering. 03:11 >>I used to think that that was just a cute little Christian 03:15 thing to say that God died from a broken heart. 03:18 This whole idea of a broken heart a broken heart. 03:20 But I totally saw it in scripture there's something here 03:26 in Psalm 40 there is a prophecy that says in verse 7 and I just 03:32 want to point out the words cause you'll see the fulfillment 03:34 when we get to the New Testament. 03:35 In Psalm chapter 40 verse 7 it says behold I come in the scroll 03:39 of the book it is written of me to do your will Oh my God and 03:44 your law is within my heart. 03:47 >>I delight to do your will. 03:50 >>I delight to do your will Oh my God and your law is within my 03:52 heart. 03:53 And who is that speaking about? 03:54 When you get to Hebrews chapter 10 you find the fulfillment here 03:57 because in verse 5 therefore when Christ came into the world 04:02 he said sacrifice and offering you did not desire a body you 04:08 have prepared for me and burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin 04:11 you had no pleasure. 04:13 Then I said behold I have come in the volume of the book it is 04:16 written of me to do your will Oh God. 04:19 That's Jesus. 04:21 So Jesus comes into this world with the law of God written on 04:24 his heart. 04:25 And then in the previous conversation you pointed out 04:27 when Moses had the tables of stone and the children of Israel 04:32 were dancing Moses took them and shattered them. 04:36 And the fact that he broke the tables of stone, the law, was 04:39 symbolic that the covenant was broken, right? 04:43 So this idea that if Jesus comes into the world and the law is 04:47 written on his heart but he's coming to die for the sins of 04:51 the world which is the transgression of the law then 04:54 that law just like in Moses' day that was cracked was in his 04:59 heart. 05:00 So sin literally cracked the heart of Jesus. 05:03 And that's why when those Roman soldiers go up to him while he's 05:07 hanging on the cross remember they were gonna break the knees 05:09 of the one thief and the other thief when they get up to Jesus 05:13 John 19 says he was already dead. 05:14 >>He shouldn't have been. 05:16 >>Yeah he should have been. 05:17 >>Crucifixion was intended to be a long protracted agony that 05:21 was to last for days and they were surprised that Jesus was 05:24 already dead because he was supposed to suffer on for days. 05:27 But he was already dead. 05:29 >>It's true that the main point of the cross was not....the main 05:33 point of what Jesus did on the cross was not primarily 05:36 physical. 05:37 I appreciate what you're bringing out Ty about the psyche 05:39 and what would you say in response to somebody who just 05:43 said the same thing but just switched it to physical? 05:45 Let's say that you go knocking on the door now you're an older 05:48 more mature Christian where you just meet somebody and they say 05:53 lots of people endured extreme psychological, mental trauma. 05:56 I would be willing to undergo psychological, mental trauma for 06:00 you, you could do the same for me. 06:02 What's the...I didn't follow you completely. 06:04 I get that the cross is primarily a psychological event 06:07 what was taking place Jesus death but how does that answer 06:10 the objection the guy was raising? 06:12 >>It answers the objection because and maybe I didn't make 06:15 this clear enough that there was a specific kind of psychological 06:19 suffering that Jesus was undergoing and we touched on it 06:23 last conversation. 06:25 And maybe we can flush it out more here. 06:26 And that is that he was burying iniquity. 06:30 He was the substitute and surety of the human race. 06:35 He was following through not just to bear psychological agony 06:40 in the sense of the stress that we human beings often 06:45 experience. 06:46 And not even to merely bear the kind of shame that we do 06:51 experience when we've done wrong and we feel bad about it. 06:54 But Jesus is stepping in and as we've read in 2 Corinthians 5:21 07:00 he becomes sin for us. 07:02 He's experiencing the full ramifications if you will of the 07:07 sin problem as our substitute. 07:11 >>Let me touch on that that is getting where I want to go or at 07:14 least where my brain goes what are the full...you say he's 07:17 experiencing the full ramifications of the sin 07:20 problem. 07:21 What is that? 07:22 >>Well let's look at this from verse. 07:23 >>But I just want an answer to that question. 07:26 What is that? 07:27 >>It's shame. 07:28 It's guilt. 07:29 Ok and it's 07:30 >>Separation. 07:31 >>It's just the wages of sin is death. 07:33 Jesus yes he bore physical pain. 07:37 Yes he bore a great psychological trauma but the 07:40 thing that Jesus did that was the atonement for man was he 07:46 died. 07:48 And he didn't just take a nap like what happens to us when we 07:51 get in a car accident or we die of cancer we have a heart 07:54 attack. 07:55 He calls that asleep. 07:56 Jesus didn't just rest in the grave for a few days and now I 07:58 wake up. 07:59 >>Right. 08:00 >>He died the second death. 08:01 >>Yes. 08:03 >>And I agree with what you're saying, both of you are saying 08:05 that what precipitated that death was more psychological and 08:10 separation than it was physical but the thing that he did that 08:15 was the means by which he atones is he died. 08:19 >>That's why I want to look at this verse in Matthew 27 because 08:22 I think this verse really brings this out. 08:24 What kind of death he died. 08:28 We've talked about Jesus died this death but what kind of 08:30 death did he die? 08:32 What did it mean in the context of the physical as well as the 08:35 emotional. 08:37 And so in Matthew 27 it's the Calvary chapter it's talking 08:40 here about his journey to the cross everything he experiences 08:43 from the cross. 08:44 And it culminates in verse 46 the agony and everything he's 08:49 experienced even from Gethsemane culminates in verse 46 about the 08:52 9th hour Jesus cried with a loud voice saying Eli, Eli, 08:58 Lama sabach thami, that is to say My God, my God why 09:03 hast though forsaken me. 09:05 Now we've been developing that the whole issue in this picture 09:10 of salvation covenant is relationship from the very 09:14 beginning we developed it from Genesis all the way through 09:17 relationship, relationship, relationship, relationship. 09:19 Now how many of us have had long-term relationships? 09:22 >>I have. 09:24 >>I have a 20-year-old son and I've known him for 20 years. 09:27 And I remember when he was in high school first year, second 09:31 year, third year he was at home...he was at home and then 09:34 his last year, his senior year of high school our son left our 09:37 home and went to a boarding school...a boarding academy for 09:43 his senior year. 09:44 So you know he's 18 almost. 09:45 He's leaving for his senior year. 09:49 I've know him for 18 years. 09:50 He's been my son for 18 years. 09:51 I've had a relationship with him for 18 years. 09:53 He leaves. 09:54 First day goes by, second day goes by, third day goes by and 09:59 I'm just feeling this angst this...I can't even describe it. 10:06 I cant' even describe what I'm feeling. 10:09 >>More than an angst and ache. 10:10 >>I am sad. 10:11 I don't know what about. 10:14 He's gone and I don't' think it's that but it is. 10:17 Now I can only imagine because it's beyond my imagination what 10:22 it would be like to be in a close intimate relationship with 10:26 somebody for all eternity. 10:29 Not for 18 years not for 20 years not for 30 years not for 10:33 50 years. 10:34 I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in a close 10:36 intimate relationship with somebody for all eternity and 10:39 then to be separated for the first time. 10:43 That was the first time our son I was separated from him for 10:45 days, weeks, months, a year, a whole school. 10:49 The agony I mean we can't even picture. 10:52 We talked about the idea the physical pain was just a 10:55 revelation to our dull senses and we're thinking about this 10:58 from Christ's perspective. 11:00 But it's got..I'm talking to you in relationship to my experience 11:05 with my son I'm talking to you from the father's perspective. 11:08 I'm the father of my son. 11:10 I still remember when my son was born. 11:12 I still remember what it was like when that little boy was 11:15 put into my arms I looked down at him and into his eyes and I 11:18 thought nothing in heaven or hell is going to separate me 11:23 from this child. 11:24 I'm going to be there for him, protect him, watch over him, 11:27 keep him. 11:28 I just...and there was this love that I never could even fathom 11:31 or even describe that I was experiencing at that moment. 11:35 >>Yeah just magnify that on an exponential level that we can't 11:38 comprehend with the father and the son and their relationship 11:42 with one another and all the sudden Jesus is on the cross and 11:46 he chooses the word forsaken. 11:48 There's a separation that has occurred. 11:51 >>So that is John 3:16 isn't it. 11:53 I guess what your story made me think of the perspective of the 11:57 father. 11:58 God the Father is involved in this as well I mean the whole 12:01 plan of salvation and Calvary and the cross. 12:03 We could be tempted to be just focused on the son. 12:07 He's the one hanging there but John 3:16 for God so loved the 12:13 world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever 12:14 believeth in. 12:16 That's beautiful it shows the perspective of the Father. 12:21 There must have been an intense...an intense. 12:25 >>2 Corinthians 5 says God was in Christ reconciling the world 12:31 to himself. 12:32 That's pretty amazing the sacrifice that we're witnessing 12:37 there is a joint sacrifice that's being made in the 12:40 separation that's occurring. 12:42 It really is. 12:44 David the second death concept. 12:46 Can I come back to that? 12:49 >>Please by all means. 12:50 >>Ok Jesus because we bring this language to the table second 12:54 death that's a huge concept. 12:56 The language second death occurs in the book of Revelation 3 13:00 times, in Revelation 2 and also in Revelation chapter 20 a total 13:07 of 3 times. 13:08 And that language second death implies or clearly indicates 13:12 that there is a first death. 13:15 And the first death you mentioned is merely the 13:16 unconscious sleep of death that we all die; you know when we die 13:21 in this world of physical causes of whatever sort. 13:24 And then there's a resurrection that's anticipated and hoped for 13:29 but Jesus in Matthew 10:28 in one sentence defines the 13:33 difference between the first and the second death. 13:35 >>That's right. 13:37 >>He says do not fear those that kill the body but are not able 13:40 to kill the soul but rather fear him who is able to destroy both 13:45 soul and body in hell. 13:47 So in this statement Jesus draws a distinction between first 13:51 death and second death. 13:53 First death is merely the killing of the body when the 13:55 body dies the spirit returns to God who gave it according to 14:00 scripture in Ecclesiastes chapter 12 and that means that 14:04 the psyche, the total content of the persons history and 14:11 character and personality is preserved in the unconscious 14:15 state for the resurrection and Jesus says here the second death 14:22 by infinite contrast is the utter destruction the whole 14:24 person. 14:26 Not just the body but the soul and you'll remember that that 14:30 word soul, which is here psyche. 14:32 Yeah that word soul is used by Jesus himself in Matthew 26 my 14:37 soul is exceedingly sorrowful to the point of death psyche and 14:41 Isaiah 53 over and over again finally climaxing with he poured 14:47 out his soul unto death. 14:50 So this scripture compared with the others that we looked at 14:54 indicates that Jesus did in fact experience the second death on 14:59 our behalf which is the ultimate death that sinners face. 15:05 Not merely the first death but the second death so does that 15:08 clearly...more clearly flush out? 15:12 >>Yeah absolutely. 15:14 Yeah that's the point. 15:15 That is the point and any church or theology or Christian that 15:21 doesn't correctly understand the nature of the second death and 15:24 the nature of hell as the second death 'cause that's what Jesus 15:28 says in Matthew 10. 15:30 >>Inaudible 15:31 >>Hell is the second death. 15:33 If we have a misunderstanding of what hell is and what the second 15:35 death is we will not understand what's happening on the cross. 15:37 This is why to use a modern example. 15:38 Oh probably a little less than a decade ago Mel Gibson, a 15:41 Catholic produces his movie what was it called? 15:45 >>Passion 15:46 >>Passion of the Christ. 15:47 I didn't see the movie but lots of people did but I read reviews 15:49 of it and I read several Christian reviews of it. 15:51 I intentionally didn't see the movie because I didn't want his 15:54 picture of what happened to become my picture 'cause images 15:57 can be very difficult to get out of your head but that's beside 16:00 the point. 16:01 In the reviews that I read the physical sufferings of Jesus 16:05 were magnified far beyond the biblical account. 16:08 In fact he even tapped into several like Catholic mystics 16:10 and others that had these visions supposedly of what Jesus 16:14 had undergone. 16:15 So that the physical suffering is just manifested in heaps so 16:18 much so that it almost became somewhat comedic in the sense 16:22 that he was undergoing a physical pain and a physical 16:25 torture that was just super impossible. 16:28 >>It would've killed him. 16:29 >>It would've killed him many times over. 16:31 But the point is this the reason that he has to put this in 16:35 ordinate, extraordinary, unbiblical emphasis on the 16:39 physical sufferings of Jesus is because number one he doesn't 16:41 understand that primarily what was going on was in the psyche 16:44 psychologically and number two he doesn't understand that Jesus 16:47 is dying at the level of his soul. 16:50 So you say the physical is a window into the...I remember you 16:56 said that James and I love that. 16:58 That is so true and if we don't have a correct understanding of 17:00 this idea of the second death and what hell really is. 17:02 >>You'll end up overcompensating. 17:04 >>You overcompensate in the physical. 17:05 So here's...you said...you emphasized...one of you two 17:08 emphasized it's not the physical. 17:10 Check. 17:12 That was the guy you talked to; you know that you witnessed to. 17:15 It's the psychological, which is even deeper than the physical. 17:18 Check. 17:20 But what Jesus died and I don't want to be overly philosophical 17:21 here but he died what you would call an ontological death. 17:23 That's what you were talking about. 17:25 >>A death of being. 17:26 >>A death of being. 17:27 >>Sometimes that's called annihilation. 17:28 >>Annihilation in as much as it was possible for God to 17:34 experience death. 17:37 He did. 17:38 And Jesus in his...'cause we talked about he divested 17:41 himself, he emptied himself, he was not accessing those divine 17:44 attributes. 17:45 Jesus is seeing the crucifixion experience through this window 17:49 such that his experience is perfectly real for him. 17:53 And he literally believes that he is laying down not just to 17:58 take a nap for a few days. 17:59 He is laying down his eternal existence. 18:02 >>For our salvation. 18:05 >>For the benefit of those who would have abandoned him anyway. 18:07 >>I think also that the point I was trying to make earlier is 18:10 key here and that is the ultimate definition of what he's 18:13 doing is separating from God. 18:16 >>That's right 18:17 >>That's the ultimate definition of the second death. 18:19 >>Because separation from God is death. 18:21 >>It's an eternal separation from God. 18:24 And no one's ever experienced that. 18:25 There's no one who's ever even been in a position where they 18:28 have...they have God has given them intimation. 18:30 I mean maybe an intimation but no long term but there will be 18:34 those who will experience that. 18:36 >>It was never meant...it was never supposed to be. 18:38 >>What I am trying to say is this if you go all the way back 18:40 to the flood. 18:41 If you go all the way back to the ancient past of human 18:43 history no one has ever experienced the ultimate 18:47 consequence of sin. 18:49 >>That's right. 18:50 >>You might say the antilunials well a lot of there people 18:52 drowned to death. 18:54 You might say Sodom and Gomorrah the people have burned to death. 18:57 That is not the ultimate consequence. 18:58 >>The death of Body. 18:59 >>Yeah. 19:00 >>Yes. 19:01 >>It's not a death of being. 19:03 >>Which reminds me when we come back I've got a huge point I 19:04 want to bring to the table. 19:05 You just sparked a great memory for me. 19:07 >>Same with me. 19:08 >>Ok let's take a break and then we're gonna discover and probe 19:11 this huge points and I have one too. 19:13 >>Amen. 19:15 [Music] 19:25 >>God has blessed us with the equipment that we need, the 19:28 facility that we need. 19:30 Presently with the financial resources that come into this 19:33 ministry we're able to print 20 to 30 million pieces of 19:38 literature every year. 19:39 If we were to maximize this equipment we could easily print 19:44 40, 50, 60 million pieces of literature every calendar year 19:49 and put it into the field. 19:50 [Music] 19:55 We need people who want to partner with us to really 19:58 stretch their evangelistic dollar. 20:01 We don't ask people to sponsor the work we're doing. 20:04 We feel that this is one of the best ways to utilize the 20:08 resources that God has given to each one of us. 20:10 >>We would like people to know what they are going to do is not 20:17 in vain. 20:19 It makes a huge difference. 20:21 >>With what we're doing every dollar puts multiple messages 20:28 out into the field and when it arrives on their end it's free 20:32 of charge. 20:33 >>The word of God is free and if it is shared it means that many 20:36 people have access to it. 20:39 >>$100 a month, $50 a month, $30 a month, $10 a month makes a 20:44 difference. 20:46 >>We need to do everything to preach this gospel. 20:49 People are suffering. 20:51 They don't have peace. 20:52 [Music] 21:02 >>you can take a four-color track that is filled with the 21:04 gospel of Jesus Christ. 21:06 You can print it, fold it, pack it, ship if over seas and by the 21:09 time it gets to a third world country and touches the heart of 21:12 an individual the cost of that tract is about four cents or 21:14 less. 21:15 Give to God's work, become partners with God. 21:21 Become partners with the work that Light Bearers is doing and 21:24 you will receive a greater blessing than the one that you 21:26 give. 21:33 >>We're looking for partners and friends who will join with us to 21:37 put this literature out to the Masses. 21:39 To partner with Light Bearers in spreading the gospel visit us 21:44 online at lightbearers.org or call us toll free at 21:48 1-877-585-1111. 21:51 You can also write to us at Light Bearers 37457 Jasper 21:56 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 22:00 [Music] 22:08 >>It really is a privilege to be a part of Light Bearers. 22:10 It's an international ministry that is reaching out through 22:14 multiple different means. 22:16 The publishing work that God has laid before us and has been so, 22:21 so widely received around the world with multiplied millions 22:25 of publications going out. 22:27 The discipleship-training course Arise what a blessing that is. 22:30 The opportunity just to preach the gospel to the world in every 22:36 venue that the Lord opens up for us it's privilege and I 22:41 thoroughly enjoy working with you guys. 22:43 Just want you to know that. 22:44 >>Amen to that. 22:45 >>Yeah. 22:46 >>So we were talking about the cross and you said you had a 22:49 huge point to make. 22:52 >>Huge. 22:53 >>Massive. 22:54 >>Huge. 22:55 >>Did I say huge? 22:56 >>You said huge several times. 22:57 >>For massive. 22:58 >>Ok so. 22:59 >>Use your hands like this. 23:00 >>We ended our last conversation talking about how Jesus died not 23:03 only a physical...he experienced not only a physical, emotional, 23:06 psychological but ontological my soul is dying, not my back 23:10 aches. 23:11 >>Yeah. 23:12 >>Not my, you know, heart is fluttering. 23:14 My soul is dying. 23:15 James had made the exactly correct point that no one else 23:19 has ever experienced it. 23:20 This is a black box. 23:21 This is 23:22 >>We don't even know what's there. 23:24 >>Unchartered water. 23:25 >>So here's what I love about God so many things that the end 23:30 of time when unrepentant sinners who insist on, we'll get to this 23:34 probably, who insist on clinging to their sin and separating 23:37 themselves from God because God doesn't' separate from them they 23:40 separate from God and God honors that choice. 23:41 People will experience what the bible calls the second death. 23:45 But here's what I love God does not allow anyone to suffer the 23:50 second death before he himself has experienced it. 23:56 >>That is huge. 23:58 That's huge. 23:59 >>Yeah that's 24:00 >>Massive because that reveals the magnitude of God's love for 24:03 every member of the human race. 24:06 >>That's right. 24:07 >>It's astounding. 24:08 >>In fact in Revelation it says those who believe in Christ on 24:11 these the second death has no power. 24:13 So there's something that God has done in our behalf that has 24:17 taken away the consequence. 24:19 >>But there's a logic to the gospel there if those who are 24:23 partakers of the redemption that is in Christ Jesus are not hurt 24:28 by the second death and the second death has no power over 24:31 them. 24:33 The logic is that he, Jesus must have endured the hurt and the 24:36 power of the second death on their behalf for them to escape 24:39 it. 24:40 >>Absolutely. 24:41 >>The passage in scripture that really illustrates this for me 24:44 is Matthew chapter 26. 24:46 We've spent some time in Matthew 27 in Matthew chapter 26 Jesus 24:50 in the last supper with his disciples he breaks the bread 24:53 and he gives them the wine and he says, this is pregnant with 24:56 meaning, he says this cup is the new covenant the blood of the 25:00 new covenant which he shed for many. 25:02 It's the only time the word covenant occurs in the entire 25:05 gospel of Matthew I think. 25:07 And he gives them this cup, now I am strongly of the opinion I'm 25:09 not adamant about it but I believe it's the case that Jesus 25:12 himself did not drink of that cup. 25:15 He gave the cup of communion to his disciples. 25:17 In fact he said you drink all of it, all of you drink it and then 25:21 it's either in Marks or Luke's account where he says I will not 25:24 drink of this fruit of the vine until the day I drink it with 25:27 you new in the kingdom of heaven. 25:29 So it's as if Jesus is saying this cup is now for you to 25:33 drink. 25:34 I won't drink of this until I drink it with you in the kingdom 25:37 of heaven. 25:38 Now why wouldn't Jesus drink the cup there? 25:39 If he did or didn't is not the major point but here's why I 25:42 think he didn't just a few verses later that's Matthew 25:46 chapter 26 where he's in the last supper there at verse 27. 25:48 A few verses later he has his own cup to drink out of. 25:53 >>A cup. 25:54 >>And he prays three times Father let this cup pass from 25:58 me. 25:59 The cup that Jesus gave to his disciples was the cup of 26:02 communion the cup of connection, connectivity with God. 26:06 And he drinks the cup of separation. 26:08 >>Yeah. 26:11 >>Beautiful 26:12 >>So he drinks the cup of communion so they can drink...he 26:15 drinks the cup of separation so they can drink the cup of 26:18 communion. 26:19 This to me is emblematic of the very point that separation. 26:22 >>Is his. 26:24 >>Is his and the communion is theirs. 26:26 >>Ok let me back that up...let me back this up with a couple of 26:30 verses from Romans. 26:31 >>Please. 26:32 >>So Romans chapter 3 now I never understood these verses 25 26:35 and 26 until I read them in the NIV. 26:36 I even wrote them in my bible. 26:38 I'm a KJV guy so I wrote them in my KJV because it crystallized 26:43 in my mind and here are the verses that are backing up this 26:47 very point that Christ and Christ alone has experienced 26:50 this second death this forsakenness of God. 26:53 >>Romans 3? 26:54 >>Romans 3: 25 and 26 NIV. 26:57 It says God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement through 27:02 the shedding of his blood to be received by faith. 27:05 He did this to demonstrate his righteousness because here it is 27:10 in his forbearance he had left the sins committed before hand, 27:14 what's the next word, unpunished. 27:17 He did it verse 26 to demonstrate his righteousness at 27:20 the present time so as to be just and the one who justifies 27:25 those who have faith in Jesus. 27:27 So in the middle of this whole explanation Paul says the reason 27:31 why Christ is the atonement he's the sacrifice for sins is 27:35 because God has never punished previous sins. 27:38 He's left all those sins committed beforehand unpunished. 27:40 You say wait a minute, wait a minute again he punished the 27:43 andolivians didn't he? 27:45 Not the ultimate consequence. 27:46 Every single person who has ever died is going to have, according 27:51 to John chapter 5, is going to have a resurrection according 27:54 Revelation chapter 20 there's gonna be a resurrection of the 27:56 good and the bad, of the righteous and the unrighteous. 27:59 Jesus Christ came as the and this is why I think it's so 28:04 powerful David when he is confessing his iniquity, his sin 28:08 with Bathsheba in Psalm 51 he's confessing to God and he says to 28:15 the Lord Psalm 51 he says against thee verse 4 and thee 28:19 only have I sinned and done deceitful in thy sight. 28:24 Wait a minute you sinned against Bathsheba. 28:26 You sinned against Uriah. 28:27 You sinned against the whole nation. 28:29 No against thee and thee only. 28:30 David is speaking here under the inspiration of God in his heart 28:36 longing for atonement. 28:38 He's speaking of the ultimate consequence for sin which points 28:41 to the Messiah, to Jesus. 28:43 >>Powerful. 28:44 >>I'm still hung up on the Gethsemane picture with this cup 28:47 in his hand this cup is trembling in his hand and he's 28:50 struggling and you mentioned he prayed 3 times. 28:52 What was in that cup? 28:55 >>The cup idea. 28:57 >>It wasn't a literal cup. 29:00 >>Right. 29:01 >>It's metaphoric. 29:02 >>Even metaphoric what is this cup that Christ is struggling 29:04 with? 29:05 >>The wrath of God against sin. 29:06 >>Do you think that he's literally taking in the guilt 29:10 and the shame of? 29:11 >>Yes. 29:12 >>Of, our we talking every past sin ever committed every sin at 29:17 the time and every future sin? 29:19 >>I think that would be James' point there in Romans 3 yeah. 29:21 >>That's powerful. 29:23 Well when you think of guilt I mean have you ever felt so 29:29 guilty where you wanna just crawl on the floor? 29:34 >>Sure. 29:35 >>You can't even find...you can't even stand to your feet 29:38 and I just think to myself that all of that guilt Christ could 29:42 taste and experience in one sitting so to speak at once. 29:48 Not just of one or two individuals but the entire human 29:52 race because I could barely... 29:54 I could barely pull myself together with just my own sin 29:59 and my own guilt. 30:01 >>And your own sin and guilt you haven't even faced. 30:04 >>I don't even understand the full extent of my own guilt and 30:06 shame and here Christ is experiencing not only I mean 30:10 he's experiencing that for the entire race, past, present and 30:15 future. 30:16 No wonder that in Luke it says blood coming out of his 30:20 pores. >>Yeah. 30:21 >>Have you guys heard the illustration...you're gonna go 30:25 to Psalm 88 right? 30:26 >>Sure but 30:27 >>Yeah you go to Psalms 88 because I want to tell this 30:30 illustration after you've done that. 30:31 >>Ok, ok Psalm 88 is a passage of scripture that is extremely 30:36 important because it gives us a look into the psychological 30:41 dimension of the sufferings of Christ as he goes through 30:45 Gethsemane and goes to Calvary. 30:47 In that sense it's unique. 30:48 It doesn't talk about the physical suffering it's what's 30:51 going on in his mind and I'll just read Psalm 88 and we'll 30:54 just note some of the words very carefully here. 30:57 He, well I'll begin with verse 3 and he says notice this my soul, 31:00 my soul is full of troubles and my life draws near to the grave. 31:06 I am counted with those who go down into the pit. 31:10 This is amazing. 31:12 I am like a man who has no strength verse 5 adrift among 31:18 the dead like the sling who lie in the grave who you remember no 31:23 more. 31:26 That's second death language. 31:27 And who are cut off. 31:30 >>That's Daniel 9. 31:31 >>That's Daniel 9 cut off from your hand. 31:33 That's covenant faithfulness language. 31:36 And verse 6 you have laid me in the lowest pit in darkness in 31:40 the depths verse 7 your wrath lies heavy upon me and you have 31:46 afflicted me with all your ways Selah, pause, think. 31:51 Verse 8 you have put mine acquaintances far from me. 31:56 You have made me an abomination to them and notice this 31:59 line you guys, I am shut up and I cannot get out. 32:04 Ok so shut up where? 32:07 The context is in the lowest pit, in darkness, psycogical 32:12 darkness. 32:13 And in a overwhelming sense of the wrath of God against sin. 32:18 He's experiencing all of this in his soul it says in verse 3 and 32:23 in that dark, dark place of separation from the Father and 32:28 the guilt of the human race he says I'm shut up and I can't get 32:31 out. 32:33 This language is resurrection language. 32:37 He's essentially saying I am sinking into a death from which 32:41 I can't see any hope of resurrection. 32:44 He could not see through the portals of the tomb and the hope 32:50 of resurrection was blocked from his vision mentally, emotionally 32:55 if you can imagine Jeffry what you mentioned just a moment ago 32:59 what it would be like just to bear your own guilt and shame 33:04 there would be a sense of total isolation. 33:08 You're alone. 33:09 You're separated. 33:10 But imagine the compound reality of all human transgression 33:14 weighing upon his conscious as though he's the guilty part in 33:17 every sin ever committed. 33:19 And Jesus said I can't get out. 33:21 I don't see resurrection from this death into which I'm 33:25 sinking. 33:26 That's second death language. 33:28 >>The phrase there two things you said there Ty the first the 33:33 word there that jumps out at me is the unremembered state. 33:36 You remember me no more of verse 5. 33:40 Because to be unremembered to be forgotten is to be forsaken. 33:44 It's not just that you're in the pit you're in the closet. 33:47 You know somebody's coming. 33:48 No you feel as though you will never be remembered again. 33:51 That's second death language. 33:52 >>Yeah, yeah. 33:53 >>And so that's just. 33:55 >>Mind blowing. 33:56 >>It's huge. 33:58 Let me share this illustration with you, You just said 33:59 something about the compound experience and this is a great 34:02 illustration. 34:03 I'm just going to borrow it here from C.S. 34:05 Lewis and he basically says if you could imagine someone in a 34:07 waiting room, say at the dentist office, right. 34:10 And they're sitting in the dentist's office and they have a 34:14 toothache and they have a toothache of pain X. 34:18 Ok so we've all been to the dentist before and so this, 34:21 we'll say this paper represents the waiting office...the waiting 34:24 room. 34:25 The lobby. 34:26 And there's somebody sitting there and they're pain 34:27 whatever that toothache pain is...that's really great it's 34:29 pain X. 34:30 He says now imagine there's somebody sitting next to that 34:32 person who also has a tooth ache and his tooth ache is pain X. 34:37 So now you could say that in the lobby there is 2X pain in the 34:45 room 34:46 >>Does X represent magnitude? 34:48 >>Right X represents whatever the number is it could be a 7 it 34:50 could be an 8 it could be whatever it is. 34:52 How would you quantify it right? 34:53 >>So it is magnitude. 34:54 >>It's magnitude, yeah intensity, intensity. 34:56 So now you have two people who obviously have 2X pain, we could 34:59 make it 3X, 4X, 5S however many tooth aches are in the office. 35:02 And then Lewis, this is Lewis' point he says but even though 35:05 there's 2X pain or 3X or 4X pain in the room no one is 35:08 experiencing 2X, 3X or 4X. 35:13 Everybody can only experience the pain that you can 35:16 experience. 35:17 And then he basically his point is we can talk about the sum of 35:21 misery in the world or the sum total of suffering. 35:25 But he says a lot of this talk is no sensible because you can 35:28 only experience the pain that you can experience, you can 35:32 experience, you can experience even though the pain that you 35:36 feel for your son is still filtered through your 35:37 experience. 35:39 But Jesus the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 35:42 >>Isaiah 52:6 35:44 >>So you take billion x of that chain that you are talking about 35:49 and you lay it on Christ and no wonder his [snapping] 35:51 >>That's awesome and that's why well what's the difference? 35:55 Yeah he got toward your for a little bit ok I can get tortured 35:58 but that's the point is that at the end of the day when the 36:01 General gets tortured for his soldiers he's only experiencing 36:07 his 1X. 36:10 He's not experiencing individual X's. 36:14 >>How can you? 36:15 >>That's the point but in Calvary at Calvary is the only 36:18 moment in history where all the X's are piled up as you were 36:22 saying on one individual. 36:23 That's the big distinction. 36:25 >>What's the thing that enables God to experience all of the X's 36:29 laid upon him? 36:30 What's the thing that enables him? 36:31 It's that he's divine. 36:32 He is divine as God. 36:35 >>He has an infinite capacity. 36:36 >>Exactly. 36:37 He has if you just think infinitely broad shoulders that 36:41 just extend clear out into the vast, you know in metaphor 36:45 language so that every sin, James' sin put that, Jeffrey's 36:48 sin. 36:49 >>Finish it all. 36:50 Real quick Daniel chapter 9 'cause you mentioned the phrase 36:54 cut off. 36:55 Well Daniel 9 also connects to Psalm 88 in Daniel chapter 9 36:59 verse 24. 37:00 >>Yes. 37:01 >>It talks about the weeks that are turned upon the people in 37:03 the holy city to finish transgression, to finish it. 37:07 I'm going to finish it. 37:08 >>To put an end to it. 37:09 >>This word finish is the same Hebrew word you find in Psalm 37:13 88:8 I am shut up and I cannot come forth. 37:16 That word shut up means to finish. 37:18 >>I'm finished. 37:19 >>Yes I'm finished. 37:21 And that connects to 2 Corinthians 5:21 he became sin 37:24 for us. 37:25 And he was shut up as sin. 37:27 He was finished. 37:29 He was completely crushed right here. 37:31 And I love this because In Daniel 9:24 he's gonna finish 37:34 transgression. 37:36 He's gonna make it into sin and he's gonna make reconciliation 37:38 for iniquity. 37:40 Sin, transgression...you can't describe what we need taken care 37:44 of in any outside of any of those sin, transgression all 37:47 taken care of and it's finished in Jesus name. 37:49 >>And Jesus the sum of Jesus last words on the cross is very 37:52 quickly there where it is finished. 37:54 >>Do you think? 37:55 >>Yeah, Yeah/. 37:56 >>What is finished? 37:57 Transgression, sin. 37:58 >It's all over. 37:59 >>Yeah David you said, you said that he had a capacity for 38:02 suffering and I said infinite capacity and you likened it to 38:06 broad shoulders. 38:08 But intangible language I think what's happening there is God's 38:12 capacity for suffering is equal to the infinitude of his love. 38:18 >>Yeah. 38:19 >>Because yeah because here's the thing about love. 38:21 The more I love you the more I hurt when you hurt. 38:26 So there's an empathy. 38:28 There's something going on there where I'm psychologically 38:32 feeling what you feel by virtue of the fact hat I love you and 38:36 God's love is infinite and therefore he infinitely feels 38:41 the pain of and the weight of the sin of the whole world as we 38:49 say. 38:50 The sin of the whole world is upon his broad shoulders of 38:52 infinite love. 38:54 >>It's like your cup is love and the water represents the pain 38:57 the bigger the cup the more capacity for water and if water 39:03 is pain 39:04 >>If the cup is love. 39:05 >>That's powerful. 39:07 My cup is so small I can only experience. 39:09 >>God's love qualified him God so loved the world it qualified 39:13 him to be able to take the sin of the world. 39:15 >>And his love made sin all the more repulsive, repugnant and 39:19 ugly to him. 39:20 To us sin, you know you watch movies, you see this we're so 39:24 surrounded by that we've become calloused to. 39:27 God is infinitely pure, infinitely loving so sin would 39:30 have been. 39:32 >>His nature it coils from it. 39:34 >>Yeah, yeah. 39:36 Hey we have to take a break and we don't want to take a break. 39:38 >>These breaks can be painful. 39:39 >>Yeah not as painful as what we're talking about. 39:41 But this breaks gonna. 39:43 >>We're cutting away to great things. 39:44 >>Yeah, yeah so we'll just take a break and we'll just come back 39:48 and continue on. 39:49 >>Amen. 39:51 Announcer: Territorial Forces is a tour to force through 39:58 scripture regarding the very real spiritual warfare. 40:01 It is continually transpiring over every nation, home and 40:05 individual person. 40:07 For your free copy call 1-877-585-1111 or write to Light 40:14 Bearers 37457 Jasper Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 40:20 Once again for your free copy of Territorial Forces call 40:24 1-877-585-1111 or write to Light Bearers 37457 Jasper Lowell 40:32 Road, Jasper, OR 97438. 40:36 Simply ask for Territorial Forces. 40:48 >>Somebody might say ok beautiful a man named Jesus has 40:52 died some 2000 years ago. 40:54 Well I wasn't there, you weren't there so what? 40:57 Somebody died 2000 years ago what does that have to do with 41:03 me now? 41:04 I mean it's a different world it's a different time in earth's 41:06 history. 41:08 I think it would be interesting for us to dig a little deeper 41:10 now and to discuss what are the can I say existential 41:15 implications? 41:16 What are the. 41:18 >>By this you mean experiential? 41:19 >>Yeah what are the implications to our daily...how does that 41:22 affect me in other words? 41:23 >>It's like the old thing what, so what, now what? 41:25 >>What are we talking about so what's the big deal. 41:30 Now what? 41:31 Now what? 41:32 >>That's right I'm gonna open the door at 2 Corinthians 41:39 chapter 5 and with you guys around the table we may not go 41:41 anywhere else. 41:42 I know that this is some heavy beautiful salvation theology 41:47 here. 41:48 2 Corinthians chapter 5 and I'm just going to open with verse 14 41:52 that talks about the more we encounter this whole idea of a 41:58 cross and Jesus at Calvary the more it produces some kind of a 42:02 knee jerk reaction in individuals. 42:06 I'm zoning in on the word compel there. 42:08 But it says the love of Christ compels us, produces a reaction 42:13 because we judge thus that if one died for all then all died 42:17 and he died for all that those who live should no longer live 42:22 for themselves but for him who died for them and rose again. 42:26 The closer according to the text maybe you guys can engage in 42:32 this the closer we counter what Christ did on the cross the more 42:39 that impacts us and apparently it compels us to something. 42:44 >>Well I'll engage with it I think this is one of the high 42:48 points in scripture. 42:50 >>I agree. 42:51 >>I love this all the way down to verse 21 Paul has achieved a 42:54 very high level of clarity here the love of Christ is the 42:58 compelling factor. 43:01 Another way of saying that and perhaps a little bit more modern 43:04 vernacular is the love of Christ is the motivational force of the 43:10 gospel. 43:11 That's what prompts me to things that I would never be able to do 43:15 in and of myself and that's what prevents me from doing things 43:18 I'm super inclined to do. 43:20 I'm inclined to sin and I'm not inclined to righteousness and 43:25 the love of Christ it has an effect of keeping me from sin 43:29 from the inside 'cause it motivates me. 43:33 >>What it matters. 43:35 >>Yeah and it drives me maybe that's not the it compels me 43:38 maybe that's not the best word. 43:40 It urges me on. 43:41 It motivates me and verse 15 tells us that it motivates us 43:47 and gives us a change of heart at the most fundamental level. 43:50 It says and that he died for that those who live should not 43:54 no longer live for themselves but for he who died for them and 43:58 rose again. 43:59 So selfishness, self-centeredness as we've 44:03 discovered in previous conversations is the real core 44:06 of the sin problem. 44:08 Right? 44:09 Selfishness took the place of love in the fall of mankind. 44:12 That's what's going on. 44:14 Well the cross of Calvary and the love of Christ that is 44:17 revealed there re-establishes love as the basis of my 44:20 ontological existence, by being, my living, my relating to 44:25 everybody around me and the way it does that is that I breaks 44:30 the power of selfishness in my heart. 44:31 My focus is now on the one who dies for me and rose again. 44:35 It's not any longer on me and you know me, myself and I. 44:39 That's the love of Christ and it's what did you say it's 44:43 existential impact of a human being who encounters it. 44:48 >>I think that in many ways 2Corinthians 5 this whole 44:53 passage 14 down to 21 actually 12 to 21 but especially verse 44:56 15, 14 and 15 together just really that is the gospel Jesus 45:02 died so that from this point forward those that have put 45:07 their faith in his faithfulness, those that have put their belief 45:10 in his faithfulness, they would not live for themselves but for 45:13 him. 45:15 Really if the whole New Testament was those two verses 45:19 with the story of Jesus having died on the cross. 45:22 You'd have plenty. 45:24 You'd have the unpacking of the character of God that we began 45:28 with God is love God is a relational community Father, 45:32 Son and Holy Spirit. 45:33 And God gives one member of the Godhead for God so loved the 45:37 world that he gave his only begotten son. 45:39 That son is given not just in a temporal sense or in a 45:44 historical sense he is given to the human race. 45:47 >>Eternally? 45:49 >>Eternally yeah I think that's what it means in Hebrew when it 45:52 says for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren. 45:55 That we are bound to Christ by a cord that will never be broken 45:59 and that how could you not want to serve him. 46:05 I know there are always going to be those saying oh yeah, yeah, 46:08 yeah, yeah but what's my part. 46:10 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but the law. 46:12 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but the commandments. 46:14 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but obedience. 46:15 And amen to that. 46:17 But it's not this and this. 46:18 Oh look at this this is nice. 46:20 Ok and now we close that door and now this. 46:22 No it's a continuum. 46:24 That creates this. 46:28 >>It's all part of the same. 46:29 >>Of course because the love of Christ that's the story we're 46:32 talking about, the love of Christ urges me on to not live 46:34 for myself. 46:35 >>Right it does something, something more than that, well 46:38 it's not more than that but Paul describes something that's a 46:41 part of that. 46:42 >>Part of that. 46:43 >>He says in verse 16 therefore from now on we regard no one 46:45 according to the flesh. 46:48 That is incredible because that is basically saying that the 46:52 cross of Christ or the love of Christ manifested at the cross 46:55 impacts our relationships with every other member of the human 46:59 race. 47:00 We don't see anyone we don't regard anyone any longer 47:03 according to their natural carnality we regard people now 47:07 as they are in Christ and the objective fact of his covenant 47:12 faithfulness. 47:13 And now our relationships with everybody based on verse 15 is 47:17 that he died for all and there's some sense that the fact that he 47:22 died for all means that all died in him. 47:23 >>Yeah that's right. 47:26 >>That's the incredible truth of the gospel because Jesus entered 47:32 into a corporate solidarity with the human race so that when he 47:35 dies on the cross there's a sense in which Paul's thinking 47:37 the whole human race is encompassed in that death. 47:40 >>That's why he calls him Adam. 47:42 >>So you look different to me now Jeffrey. 47:43 The lady at the grocery store that I pay for my groceries she. 47:45 I see her now through the lens of the love of Christ because he 47:50 died for her as well as for me. 47:54 >>And the terrorists and the bombers and the people that 47:56 commit genocide and the serial and the abusive father and it's 48:00 not easy. 48:01 We're not pretending that it's easy. 48:03 But Paul is saying deep breath I'm going to relate to my 48:07 persecutors my accusers to my betrayers to the gossipers. 48:10 I'm going to relate to them not as they are but as they can be 48:14 and as they are in Christ. 48:16 >> That's exactly was Jesus said Father forgive them for they 48:19 know not. 48:20 >>They don't know what they're doing. 48:22 >>They don't have a clue what they're doing. 48:24 >>Yeah. 48:25 >>And that's how we're supposed to be relating. 48:26 >>The keynote of the world is to know man after the flesh the 48:30 keynote of the gospel is to know man as they are in Jesus Christ. 48:33 So and it really follows I mean if you look at these verses it 48:38 follows the judging verse 14 that if one died for all 48:42 everyone died. 48:43 Verse 14 if one died for all then everyone died, all died and 48:47 verse15 and he died for all that those who live should no longer 48:51 live for themselves but for him who died for them and rose 48:54 again. 48:55 Therefore if we understand this these last two points, therefore 48:59 from now on.we don't regard anyone in the flesh 'cause he 49:02 died he paid the sins for all of those people who are living 49:05 according to the flesh. 49:06 He already died for all those people and he's paid the price 49:09 he's paid the penalty for their sins. 49:11 Then we don't look at him that way anymore. 49:14 And then verse 17 therefore if anyone is in Christ he is a new 49:19 creature he is a new creation. 49:20 He sees people differently now. 49:22 >>That's right. 49:24 >>He sees everyone differently now. 49:25 >>Wow that's huge. 49:26 >>He sees according 49:27 >>We could spend time on that. 49:28 >>To what Christ has placed in them the value that Christ has 49:33 put in them. 49:34 >>It's gonna take us way back. 49:36 You go ahead, you go ahead. 49:37 >>I'm just saying that old gospel song he saw not what I 49:40 was he saw what I could be. 49:43 >>I don't know that song. 49:44 Wanna sing it for us? 49:46 >>No [Laughter] 49:49 >>Beautiful gospel song. 49:50 >>This takes us way back to 1Corinthians 13 which we spend a 49:51 lot of time brooding over that passage in the first three the 49:56 love chapter. 49:57 Love believes all things, hopes all things, 50:00 >>Endures all things. 50:02 >>Endures all things so Jesus now this might sound a little 50:06 cheeky here but tell me what you think of this. 50:09 I love this idea. 50:11 We come to believe in God's belief in us. 50:13 >>Oh. 50:14 >>Yes. 50:15 >>Love it. 50:16 >>God believes he sees what Jeffrey can become and his 50:18 belief in you inspires your belief. 50:21 >>That's not cheeky at all. 50:23 That's the gospel. 50:25 >>I just meant that cheeky was the play on the language. 50:28 We believe in his belief on us in us. 50:31 I love that. 50:33 >>You know what's incredible about this though I think from 50:36 my perspective is Paul says that he makes this point again. 50:40 He's not done with this point. 50:41 He makes the point the first time and it's as if we wont' 50:46 quite get it as he goes through verses 14, 15 and 16 so in verse 50:49 17 he goes back. 50:51 You know he's premising it on the therefores but he's picking 50:55 it up now and he's gonna repeat the same thought. 50:58 And check this out therefore if anyone is in Christ is is a new 51:00 creation, old things have passed away behold all things have 51:04 become new. 51:05 Now all things are of God who has reconciled us to himself 51:08 through Jesus Christ and has given to us the ministry of 51:13 reconciliation. 51:15 That is that God was sin Christ reconciling the world to him not 51:19 imputing their trespasses to them and has committed to us the 51:26 word of reconciliation. 51:27 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ as though God were 51:31 pleaing through us to employ you on Christ's behalf to be 51:35 reconciled to God. 51:36 So you see how he's repeating that he's saying this is what 51:39 happened at the cross we're new creatures we don't see anyone 51:41 according to the flesh. 51:42 By the way this is how God did this he reconciled the world to 51:46 himself by not counting their sins against them. 51:48 We're giving to you you've been given this same ministry. 51:51 You're now ambassadors you know what an ambassador is? 51:53 An ambassador is the highest-ranking official from 51:56 one government to the next. 51:58 We are the highest-ranking officials from the government of 52:00 heaven to the people of this earth. 52:03 And the seal of our ambassadorship is the way we 52:09 relate to people who are sinners walking according to the flesh. 52:12 >>And the message that we have as ambassadors is be reconciled 52:16 to God and it's on the premise of the fact in verse 19 that 52:20 he's already reconciled to us because you read I think it was 52:26 New King James or King James version not imputing their 52:29 trespasses under them. 52:30 I think the NIV says not counting men's sins against 52:33 them. 52:34 And an easy way to understand that point is to simply ask the 52:38 question what would happen right now if God were to actually hold 52:43 the whole world everyone of us accountable for our sins in the 52:47 full degree? 52:48 Boom. 52:50 >>The world would just. 52:53 >>Annihilation. 52:54 We'd cease to exist. 52:55 The fact that we live and move and have being at all. 52:57 The fact that we wake up and we take in oxygen and we interact 53:00 with one another. 53:01 And we eat our daily food. 53:03 Is evidence that Jesus was given to and for the whole human race 53:09 and that he achieved something monumental on our behalf as 53:13 human beings. 53:14 >>Monumental and universal. 53:16 >>And Universal. 53:17 >The word here reconciled and I know in our next conversation 53:20 we're going to be talking about the restoration of all things. 53:22 That's where this sends me. 53:24 Because the word reconcile comes from re which is the prefix to 53:28 do again and it comes from the word council which means to 53:31 meet, to come together, to council. 53:32 If you have a council meeting it's coming together. 53:34 So to reconcile is to be brought back together, to convene the 53:40 council again. 53:42 So if you could just imagine God has his....God is a family 53:45 Father, Son and Holy Spirit who then makes the human family so 53:48 now the family of God is this increasingly expansive thing. 53:51 But then that, that connectivity is broken. 53:53 It's broken. 53:54 >>Genesis. 53:56 >>Yeah that's right. 53:57 >>Cool of the day and we were hiding. 53:58 >>So God becomes a man, is faithful to the covenant, keeps 54:02 the covenant, loves God with all of his heart, mind and soul. 54:06 Loves his neighbor like his self, re-establishes connection 54:08 with God. 54:09 This was your point in Hebrews 7 and now reconcil.... 54:11 reconnection is taken place. 54:14 This is the state of the universe in Christ. 54:17 >>Praise God. 54:19 Yeah. 54:21 >>Ty if I can ask again all of this stuff is coming out of 2 54:25 Corinthians 5 and there's a statement here that all 54:27 things....old things have passed away all things become new. 54:31 Right? 54:33 So it doesn't say that the sinner modifies into something 54:38 slightly better or improves it says he is a new creature. 54:43 So I asked earlier a man died 2000 years ago beautiful. 54:47 What does that have to do with me now? 54:49 I wonder this whole idea of newness what...how does the 54:54 cross of Calvary and everything God has accomplished how does 54:59 that produce newness to an individual? 55:03 >>That's a great question. 55:05 >>Well we've already seen it in the context the love of Christ 55:09 is manifested in Christ in the fact that he died for all when 55:13 we see that according to the apostle Paul. 55:17 When we comprehend it it has an effect on us. 55:21 There's a cause the love of Christ. 55:24 There's an effect transformation. 55:26 That's the simplest way that I can explain it. 55:30 >>Can I even say to and I think that's exactly right another 55:32 dimension to it that we just kissed a couple of times but 55:35 have not dwelt on is that Christ becomes a new humanity. 55:39 Christ is the second Adam and when we are born again right? 55:44 Because when we are born the first time we're born into the 55:47 world of Adam right? 55:49 Not by our own choice but when we are born again we are born 55:53 into a new representation, a new humanity with Christ as the 55:56 head. 55:57 >>So Calvary teaches us how to truly be human. 55:59 Jesus came to teach us. 56:01 >>That's a great way of saying it. 56:02 >>How to truly be humans. 56:04 >>He's the new man. 56:05 >>So if Calvary is a statement against selfishness then the 56:09 conversion experience, the born again experience that we often 56:12 speak of is basically a collision with Calvary with the 56:16 greatest expression of unselfish love and that encounter burns up 56:21 all the selfishness in my life and pretty soon I begin to hate 56:27 the things that God hates and to love the things that God loves. 56:29 >>Remember when Ty used the word inevitable. 56:31 >>Yeah it's inevitable that now my reaction to that is a 56:36 transformation of life. 56:38 >>He compels it but some people are uncomfortable with that 56:42 Jeffry. 56:43 There are people who want that to be true but then they, ok 56:45 like I was saying earlier, ok so now let's get down to the real 56:48 nitty gritty of religion which is you don't do this anymore. 56:51 chk, chk, chk and now you do this chk chk but it's a 56:54 continuum. 56:55 The truth. 56:58 >>This is a reaction to that. 56:59 >>Love is the power that expels sin from the soul. 57:02 There is no other source but Calvary. 57:05 >>How do we summarize this you guys we've got about a minute 57:08 left. 57:09 >>Can I try? 57:10 >>Yeah try do it. 57:11 >>I just want to try this real quickly. 57:13 I'll ask you guys a question and I know that you know the answer. 57:14 Was Jesus a sinner? 57:17 >>No. 57:18 >>No. 57:19 >>No. 57:20 Was Jesus treated as though he was a sinner? 57:21 Did he have the experience of sin? 57:23 >>Yes. 57:24 >>Ok so it says he made him who knew no sin to be sin for us 57:27 that we might become the righteousness of God in him. 57:29 We've come right down to that verse so Jesus was not a sinner 57:30 but he was treated like a sinner, ok. 57:34 Now I'm gonna ask you a question. 57:36 Are you righteous? 57:37 >> No. 57:39 >>In yourself? 57:40 >>No. 57:41 >>No. 57:42 >>No but are you treated like you're righteous? 57:43 >>Yeah 57:44 >>Christ ok so here's the illustration. 57:45 Here's my point. 57:46 I want to close with this at least in my mind. 57:48 The righteousness that saves you.... 57:50 the righteousness that gets you covenant standing before God 57:53 belongs to you it belongs to me it belongs to the listeners just 57:58 as much as the sin that condemned Jesus belonged to him. 58:03 We are standing in another's covenant faithfulness. 58:08 >>Christ was treated, as we deserve so that we could be 58:12 treated, as he deserves. 58:14 >>That's right. 58:15 >>And that is definitey good news. 58:17 >>Amen. 58:18 >>Beautiful. 58:19 >>Amen. 58:20 Announcer: To receive our free monthly newsletter and a list of 58:24 Light Bearers resources visit us online at LightBearers.org or 58:29 call us toll free at 1-877-585-1111. 58:34 You can also write to us at Light Bearers 37457 Jasper 58:39 Lowell Road, Jasper, OR 97438. |
Revised 2014-12-17