[Music]
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[Music]
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>>You guys when I was...when
I was just coming to Christ as a
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teenager having grown up
in a secular environment with
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absolutely no religious
background I encountered within
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the first year I think of
my experience with Jesus I
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encountered a guy who didn't
believe and I was trying to
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witness to him and I was telling
him how the reason why I am a
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Christian now is
because Jesus died for me.
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And I was pretty emotional about
it because this was new truth
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that I had learned.
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And this guy looked at me, he
shook his head and he literally
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laughed at me.
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I thought at first he was
laughing with me, did I say
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something funny.
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But he was laughing at me and he
proceeded to say basically in so
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many words all it takes is
a willingness to suffer a few
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hours of physical torture
and then to die in order to be a
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Savior then I can be your
savior and you can be mine.
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All kinds of people have died
for people down through history.
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Why is this Jesus death on the
cross any more significant and
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how is it different than
any heroic person dying for
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somebody?
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And that put me into a
tailspin as a new Christian.
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I didn't know how to make
heads or tails out of the thing.
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All the sudden I realized yeah,
lots of people have suffered.
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And then through that crisis
I began to study and realize
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through the gospel account that
Jesus suffered far more than
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mere physical torture and death.
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That as we discovered in our
last conversation Jesus suffered
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in his psyche Matthew 26.
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He suffered a psychological
death a psychological trauma in
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Gethsemane leading up to
the cross and that experience
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reached its climax of agony when
he from Gethsemane came to the
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cross.
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And the words that he cried out
in Matthew 27 verse 46 My God,
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my God why have you forsaken me?
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That's where the
thing really happened.
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That's where the
suffering was occurring.
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This separation that he was
feeling between himself and his
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father because of his
identification with the human
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race and bearing
our sin on our behalf.
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And I saw God's love from a
whole new perspective at that
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early stage and it became
a really powerful solidifying
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truth for me that the cross of
Jesus Christ was a manifestation
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of self-sacrificing love on a
level that transcends any human
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suffering.
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>>I used to think that that
was just a cute little Christian
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thing to say that God
died from a broken heart.
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This whole idea of a
broken heart a broken heart.
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But I totally saw it in
scripture there's something here
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in Psalm 40 there is a prophecy
that says in verse 7 and I just
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want to point out the words
cause you'll see the fulfillment
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when we get to
the New Testament.
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In Psalm chapter 40 verse 7 it
says behold I come in the scroll
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of the book it is written of
me to do your will Oh my God and
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your law is within my heart.
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>>I delight to do your will.
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>>I delight to do your will Oh
my God and your law is within my
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heart.
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And who is that speaking about?
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When you get to Hebrews chapter
10 you find the fulfillment here
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because in verse 5 therefore
when Christ came into the world
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he said sacrifice and offering
you did not desire a body you
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have prepared for me and burnt
offerings and sacrifices for sin
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you had no pleasure.
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Then I said behold I have come
in the volume of the book it is
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written of me to
do your will Oh God.
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That's Jesus.
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So Jesus comes into this world
with the law of God written on
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his heart.
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And then in the previous
conversation you pointed out
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when Moses had the tables of
stone and the children of Israel
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were dancing Moses took
them and shattered them.
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And the fact that he broke the
tables of stone, the law, was
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symbolic that the
covenant was broken, right?
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So this idea that if Jesus comes
into the world and the law is
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written on his heart but he's
coming to die for the sins of
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the world which is the
transgression of the law then
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that law just like in Moses'
day that was cracked was in his
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heart.
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So sin literally
cracked the heart of Jesus.
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And that's why when those Roman
soldiers go up to him while he's
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hanging on the cross remember
they were gonna break the knees
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of the one thief and the other
thief when they get up to Jesus
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John 19 says he
was already dead.
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>>He shouldn't have been.
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>>Yeah he should have been.
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>>Crucifixion was intended to
be a long protracted agony that
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was to last for days and they
were surprised that Jesus was
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already dead because he was
supposed to suffer on for days.
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But he was already dead.
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>>It's true that the main point
of the cross was not....the main
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point of what Jesus did on
the cross was not primarily
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physical.
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I appreciate what you're
bringing out Ty about the psyche
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and what would you say in
response to somebody who just
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said the same thing but
just switched it to physical?
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Let's say that you go knocking
on the door now you're an older
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more mature Christian where you
just meet somebody and they say
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lots of people endured extreme
psychological, mental trauma.
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I would be willing to undergo
psychological, mental trauma for
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you, you could
do the same for me.
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What's the...I didn't
follow you completely.
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I get that the cross is
primarily a psychological event
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what was taking place Jesus
death but how does that answer
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the objection
the guy was raising?
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>>It answers the objection
because and maybe I didn't make
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this clear enough that there was
a specific kind of psychological
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suffering that Jesus was
undergoing and we touched on it
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last conversation.
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And maybe we can
flush it out more here.
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And that is that he
was burying iniquity.
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He was the substitute
and surety of the human race.
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He was following through not
just to bear psychological agony
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in the sense of the stress
that we human beings often
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experience.
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And not even to merely bear
the kind of shame that we do
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experience when we've done
wrong and we feel bad about it.
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But Jesus is stepping in and as
we've read in 2 Corinthians 5:21
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he becomes sin for us.
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He's experiencing the full
ramifications if you will of the
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sin problem as our substitute.
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>>Let me touch on that that is
getting where I want to go or at
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least where my brain goes
what are the full...you say he's
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experiencing the full
ramifications of the sin
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problem.
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What is that?
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>>Well let's look
at this from verse.
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>>But I just want an
answer to that question.
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What is that?
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>>It's shame.
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It's guilt.
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Ok and it's
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>>Separation.
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>>It's just the
wages of sin is death.
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Jesus yes he bore physical pain.
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Yes he bore a great
psychological trauma but the
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thing that Jesus did that
was the atonement for man was he
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died.
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And he didn't just take a nap
like what happens to us when we
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get in a car accident or we
die of cancer we have a heart
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attack.
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He calls that asleep.
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Jesus didn't just rest in the
grave for a few days and now I
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wake up.
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>>Right.
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>>He died the second death.
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>>Yes.
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>>And I agree with what you're
saying, both of you are saying
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that what precipitated that
death was more psychological and
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separation than it was physical
but the thing that he did that
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was the means by
which he atones is he died.
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>>That's why I want to look at
this verse in Matthew 27 because
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I think this verse
really brings this out.
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What kind of death he died.
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We've talked about Jesus
died this death but what kind of
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death did he die?
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What did it mean in the context
of the physical as well as the
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emotional.
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And so in Matthew 27 it's
the Calvary chapter it's talking
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here about his journey to the
cross everything he experiences
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from the cross.
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And it culminates in verse
46 the agony and everything he's
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experienced even from Gethsemane
culminates in verse 46 about the
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9th hour Jesus cried with
a loud voice saying Eli, Eli,
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Lama sabach thami, that
is to say My God, my God why
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hast though forsaken me.
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Now we've been developing that
the whole issue in this picture
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of salvation covenant is
relationship from the very
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beginning we developed it
from Genesis all the way through
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relationship, relationship,
relationship, relationship.
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Now how many of us have
had long-term relationships?
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>>I have.
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>>I have a 20-year-old son
and I've known him for 20 years.
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And I remember when he was in
high school first year, second
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year, third year he was at
home...he was at home and then
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his last year, his senior year
of high school our son left our
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home and went to a boarding
school...a boarding academy for
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his senior year.
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So you know he's 18 almost.
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He's leaving
for his senior year.
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I've know him for 18 years.
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He's been my son for 18 years.
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I've had a relationship
with him for 18 years.
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He leaves.
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First day goes by, second day
goes by, third day goes by and
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I'm just feeling this angst
this...I can't even describe it.
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I cant' even
describe what I'm feeling.
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>>More than an angst and ache.
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>>I am sad.
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I don't know what about.
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He's gone and I don't'
think it's that but it is.
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Now I can only imagine because
it's beyond my imagination what
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it would be like to be in a
close intimate relationship with
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somebody for all eternity.
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Not for 18 years not for 20
years not for 30 years not for
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50 years.
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I can't even imagine what it
would be like to be in a close
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intimate relationship with
somebody for all eternity and
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then to be
separated for the first time.
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That was the first time our
son I was separated from him for
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days, weeks, months,
a year, a whole school.
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The agony I mean
we can't even picture.
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We talked about the idea
the physical pain was just a
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revelation to our dull senses
and we're thinking about this
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from Christ's perspective.
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But it's got..I'm talking to you
in relationship to my experience
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with my son I'm talking to you
from the father's perspective.
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I'm the father of my son.
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I still remember
when my son was born.
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I still remember what it was
like when that little boy was
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put into my arms I looked down
at him and into his eyes and I
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thought nothing in heaven
or hell is going to separate me
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from this child.
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I'm going to be there for him,
protect him, watch over him,
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keep him.
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I just...and there was this love
that I never could even fathom
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or even describe that I was
experiencing at that moment.
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>>Yeah just magnify that on an
exponential level that we can't
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comprehend with the father and
the son and their relationship
00:11:38.60\00:11:42.93
with one another and all the
sudden Jesus is on the cross and
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he chooses the word forsaken.
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There's a
separation that has occurred.
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>>So that is John 3:16 isn't it.
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I guess what your story made me
think of the perspective of the
00:11:53.30\00:11:57.06
father.
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God the Father is involved
in this as well I mean the whole
00:11:58.40\00:12:01.40
plan of salvation and
Calvary and the cross.
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We could be tempted to
be just focused on the son.
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He's the one hanging there but
John 3:16 for God so loved the
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world that he gave his
only begotten son that whosoever
00:12:13.46\00:12:14.96
believeth in.
00:12:14.96\00:12:16.16
That's beautiful it shows
the perspective of the Father.
00:12:16.16\00:12:21.80
There must have been
an intense...an intense.
00:12:21.80\00:12:25.46
>>2 Corinthians 5 says God was
in Christ reconciling the world
00:12:25.46\00:12:31.36
to himself.
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That's pretty amazing the
sacrifice that we're witnessing
00:12:32.56\00:12:37.16
there is a joint sacrifice
that's being made in the
00:12:37.16\00:12:40.73
separation that's occurring.
00:12:40.73\00:12:42.66
It really is.
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David the second death concept.
00:12:44.30\00:12:46.63
Can I come back to that?
00:12:46.63\00:12:49.03
>>Please by all means.
00:12:49.03\00:12:50.26
>>Ok Jesus because we bring this
language to the table second
00:12:50.26\00:12:54.83
death that's a huge concept.
00:12:54.83\00:12:56.63
The language second death occurs
in the book of Revelation 3
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times, in Revelation 2 and also
in Revelation chapter 20 a total
00:13:00.50\00:13:07.26
of 3 times.
00:13:07.26\00:13:08.50
And that language second death
implies or clearly indicates
00:13:08.50\00:13:12.63
that there is a first death.
00:13:12.63\00:13:15.30
And the first death
you mentioned is merely the
00:13:15.30\00:13:16.93
unconscious sleep of death that
we all die; you know when we die
00:13:16.93\00:13:21.16
in this world of physical
causes of whatever sort.
00:13:21.16\00:13:24.00
And then there's a resurrection
that's anticipated and hoped for
00:13:24.00\00:13:29.36
but Jesus in Matthew 10:28
in one sentence defines the
00:13:29.36\00:13:33.80
difference between the
first and the second death.
00:13:33.80\00:13:35.80
>>That's right.
00:13:35.80\00:13:37.06
>>He says do not fear those that
kill the body but are not able
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to kill the soul but rather fear
him who is able to destroy both
00:13:40.50\00:13:45.66
soul and body in hell.
00:13:45.66\00:13:47.70
So in this statement Jesus draws
a distinction between first
00:13:47.70\00:13:51.56
death and second death.
00:13:51.56\00:13:53.60
First death is merely the
killing of the body when the
00:13:53.60\00:13:55.73
body dies the spirit returns
to God who gave it according to
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scripture in Ecclesiastes
chapter 12 and that means that
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the psyche, the total content
of the persons history and
00:14:04.23\00:14:11.46
character and personality
is preserved in the unconscious
00:14:11.46\00:14:15.33
state for the resurrection and
Jesus says here the second death
00:14:15.33\00:14:22.76
by infinite contrast is
the utter destruction the whole
00:14:22.76\00:14:24.60
person.
00:14:24.60\00:14:26.70
Not just the body but the soul
and you'll remember that that
00:14:26.70\00:14:30.10
word soul, which is here psyche.
00:14:30.10\00:14:32.06
Yeah that word soul is used by
Jesus himself in Matthew 26 my
00:14:32.06\00:14:37.66
soul is exceedingly sorrowful
to the point of death psyche and
00:14:37.66\00:14:41.80
Isaiah 53 over and over again
finally climaxing with he poured
00:14:41.80\00:14:47.30
out his soul unto death.
00:14:47.30\00:14:50.83
So this scripture compared with
the others that we looked at
00:14:50.83\00:14:54.80
indicates that Jesus did in fact
experience the second death on
00:14:54.80\00:14:59.76
our behalf which is the ultimate
death that sinners face.
00:14:59.76\00:15:05.26
Not merely the first death but
the second death so does that
00:15:05.26\00:15:08.93
clearly...more
clearly flush out?
00:15:08.93\00:15:12.56
>>Yeah absolutely.
00:15:12.56\00:15:14.16
Yeah that's the point.
00:15:14.16\00:15:15.43
That is the point and any church
or theology or Christian that
00:15:15.43\00:15:21.23
doesn't correctly understand the
nature of the second death and
00:15:21.23\00:15:24.73
the nature of hell as the second
death 'cause that's what Jesus
00:15:24.73\00:15:28.06
says in Matthew 10.
00:15:28.06\00:15:30.80
>>Inaudible
00:15:30.80\00:15:31.76
>>Hell is the second death.
00:15:31.76\00:15:33.03
If we have a misunderstanding of
what hell is and what the second
00:15:33.03\00:15:35.00
death is we will not understand
what's happening on the cross.
00:15:35.00\00:15:37.13
This is why to
use a modern example.
00:15:37.13\00:15:38.26
Oh probably a little less
than a decade ago Mel Gibson, a
00:15:38.26\00:15:41.46
Catholic produces his
movie what was it called?
00:15:41.46\00:15:45.26
>>Passion
00:15:45.26\00:15:46.06
>>Passion of the Christ.
00:15:46.06\00:15:47.33
I didn't see the movie but lots
of people did but I read reviews
00:15:47.33\00:15:49.36
of it and I read
several Christian reviews of it.
00:15:49.36\00:15:51.63
I intentionally didn't see the
movie because I didn't want his
00:15:51.63\00:15:54.13
picture of what happened to
become my picture 'cause images
00:15:54.13\00:15:57.70
can be very difficult to get out
of your head but that's beside
00:15:57.70\00:16:00.13
the point.
00:16:00.13\00:16:01.63
In the reviews that I read
the physical sufferings of Jesus
00:16:01.63\00:16:05.36
were magnified far
beyond the biblical account.
00:16:05.36\00:16:08.23
In fact he even tapped into
several like Catholic mystics
00:16:08.23\00:16:10.80
and others that had these
visions supposedly of what Jesus
00:16:10.80\00:16:14.60
had undergone.
00:16:14.60\00:16:15.86
So that the physical suffering
is just manifested in heaps so
00:16:15.86\00:16:18.53
much so that it almost became
somewhat comedic in the sense
00:16:18.53\00:16:22.30
that he was undergoing a
physical pain and a physical
00:16:22.30\00:16:25.73
torture that was
just super impossible.
00:16:25.73\00:16:28.00
>>It would've killed him.
00:16:28.00\00:16:29.90
>>It would've
killed him many times over.
00:16:29.90\00:16:31.56
But the point is this the reason
that he has to put this in
00:16:31.56\00:16:35.43
ordinate, extraordinary,
unbiblical emphasis on the
00:16:35.43\00:16:39.26
physical sufferings of Jesus
is because number one he doesn't
00:16:39.26\00:16:41.96
understand that primarily what
was going on was in the psyche
00:16:41.96\00:16:44.76
psychologically and number two
he doesn't understand that Jesus
00:16:44.76\00:16:47.20
is dying at the
level of his soul.
00:16:47.20\00:16:50.33
So you say the physical is a
window into the...I remember you
00:16:50.33\00:16:56.86
said that James and I love that.
00:16:56.86\00:16:58.23
That is so true and if we don't
have a correct understanding of
00:16:58.23\00:17:00.93
this idea of the second
death and what hell really is.
00:17:00.93\00:17:02.96
>>You'll end up
overcompensating.
00:17:02.96\00:17:04.26
>>You
overcompensate in the physical.
00:17:04.26\00:17:05.70
So here's...you said...you
emphasized...one of you two
00:17:05.70\00:17:08.90
emphasized it's
not the physical.
00:17:08.90\00:17:10.80
Check.
00:17:10.80\00:17:12.06
That was the guy you talked to;
you know that you witnessed to.
00:17:12.06\00:17:15.33
It's the psychological, which is
even deeper than the physical.
00:17:15.33\00:17:18.76
Check.
00:17:18.76\00:17:20.03
But what Jesus died and I don't
want to be overly philosophical
00:17:20.03\00:17:21.26
here but he died what you
would call an ontological death.
00:17:21.26\00:17:23.46
That's what you
were talking about.
00:17:23.46\00:17:25.26
>>A death of being.
00:17:25.26\00:17:26.16
>>A death of being.
00:17:26.16\00:17:27.10
>>Sometimes that's
called annihilation.
00:17:27.10\00:17:28.90
>>Annihilation in as much
as it was possible for God to
00:17:28.90\00:17:34.43
experience death.
00:17:34.43\00:17:37.06
He did.
00:17:37.06\00:17:38.16
And Jesus in his...'cause
we talked about he divested
00:17:38.16\00:17:41.00
himself, he emptied himself, he
was not accessing those divine
00:17:41.00\00:17:44.43
attributes.
00:17:44.43\00:17:45.70
Jesus is seeing the crucifixion
experience through this window
00:17:45.70\00:17:49.40
such that his experience
is perfectly real for him.
00:17:49.40\00:17:53.30
And he literally believes that
he is laying down not just to
00:17:53.30\00:17:58.10
take a nap for a few days.
00:17:58.10\00:17:59.76
He is laying down
his eternal existence.
00:17:59.76\00:18:02.60
>>For our salvation.
00:18:02.60\00:18:05.26
>>For the benefit of those who
would have abandoned him anyway.
00:18:05.26\00:18:07.20
>>I think also that the point
I was trying to make earlier is
00:18:07.20\00:18:10.80
key here and that is the
ultimate definition of what he's
00:18:10.80\00:18:13.96
doing is separating from God.
00:18:13.96\00:18:16.70
>>That's right
00:18:16.70\00:18:17.86
>>That's the ultimate
definition of the second death.
00:18:17.86\00:18:19.83
>>Because
separation from God is death.
00:18:19.83\00:18:21.66
>>It's an eternal
separation from God.
00:18:21.66\00:18:24.13
And no one's
ever experienced that.
00:18:24.13\00:18:25.46
There's no one who's ever even
been in a position where they
00:18:25.46\00:18:28.50
have...they have God
has given them intimation.
00:18:28.50\00:18:30.93
I mean maybe an intimation but
no long term but there will be
00:18:30.93\00:18:34.60
those who will experience that.
00:18:34.60\00:18:36.20
>>It was never meant...it
was never supposed to be.
00:18:36.20\00:18:38.83
>>What I am trying to say is
this if you go all the way back
00:18:38.83\00:18:40.73
to the flood.
00:18:40.73\00:18:41.93
If you go all the way back
to the ancient past of human
00:18:41.93\00:18:43.90
history no one has ever
experienced the ultimate
00:18:43.90\00:18:47.66
consequence of sin.
00:18:47.66\00:18:49.43
>>That's right.
00:18:49.43\00:18:50.63
>>You might say the antilunials
well a lot of there people
00:18:50.63\00:18:52.63
drowned to death.
00:18:52.63\00:18:54.20
You might say Sodom and Gomorrah
the people have burned to death.
00:18:54.20\00:18:57.50
That is not the
ultimate consequence.
00:18:57.50\00:18:58.76
>>The death of Body.
00:18:58.76\00:18:59.60
>>Yeah.
00:18:59.60\00:19:00.36
>>Yes.
00:19:00.36\00:19:01.03
>>It's not a death of being.
00:19:01.03\00:19:02.26
>>Which reminds me when we come
back I've got a huge point I
00:19:02.26\00:19:04.40
want to bring to the table.
00:19:04.40\00:19:05.43
You just sparked a
great memory for me.
00:19:05.43\00:19:07.30
>>Same with me.
00:19:07.30\00:19:08.56
>>Ok let's take a break and then
we're gonna discover and probe
00:19:08.56\00:19:11.66
this huge points
and I have one too.
00:19:11.66\00:19:13.93
>>Amen.
00:19:13.93\00:19:15.56
[Music]
00:19:15.56\00:19:25.33
>>God has blessed us with
the equipment that we need, the
00:19:25.33\00:19:28.80
facility that we need.
00:19:28.80\00:19:30.03
Presently with the financial
resources that come into this
00:19:30.03\00:19:33.33
ministry we're able to
print 20 to 30 million pieces of
00:19:33.33\00:19:38.10
literature every year.
00:19:38.10\00:19:39.46
If we were to maximize this
equipment we could easily print
00:19:39.46\00:19:44.76
40, 50, 60 million pieces of
literature every calendar year
00:19:44.76\00:19:49.26
and put it into the field.
00:19:49.26\00:19:50.56
[Music]
00:19:50.56\00:19:55.46
We need people who want
to partner with us to really
00:19:55.46\00:19:58.16
stretch their
evangelistic dollar.
00:19:58.16\00:20:01.10
We don't ask people to
sponsor the work we're doing.
00:20:01.10\00:20:04.93
We feel that this is one of
the best ways to utilize the
00:20:04.93\00:20:08.06
resources that God has
given to each one of us.
00:20:08.06\00:20:10.76
>>We would like people to know
what they are going to do is not
00:20:10.76\00:20:17.83
in vain.
00:20:17.83\00:20:19.30
It makes a huge difference.
00:20:19.30\00:20:21.40
>>With what we're doing every
dollar puts multiple messages
00:20:21.40\00:20:28.13
out into the field and when it
arrives on their end it's free
00:20:28.13\00:20:32.30
of charge.
00:20:32.30\00:20:33.56
>>The word of God is free and if
it is shared it means that many
00:20:33.56\00:20:36.10
people have access to it.
00:20:36.10\00:20:39.06
>>$100 a month, $50 a month,
$30 a month, $10 a month makes a
00:20:39.06\00:20:44.86
difference.
00:20:44.86\00:20:46.20
>>We need to do everything
to preach this gospel.
00:20:46.20\00:20:49.56
People are suffering.
00:20:49.56\00:20:51.06
They don't have peace.
00:20:51.06\00:20:52.80
[Music]
00:20:52.80\00:21:02.93
>>you can take a four-color
track that is filled with the
00:21:02.93\00:21:04.93
gospel of Jesus Christ.
00:21:04.93\00:21:06.23
You can print it, fold it, pack
it, ship if over seas and by the
00:21:06.23\00:21:09.30
time it gets to a third world
country and touches the heart of
00:21:09.30\00:21:12.16
an individual the cost of that
tract is about four cents or
00:21:12.16\00:21:14.53
less.
00:21:14.53\00:21:15.63
Give to God's work,
become partners with God.
00:21:15.63\00:21:21.50
Become partners with the work
that Light Bearers is doing and
00:21:21.50\00:21:24.33
you will receive a greater
blessing than the one that you
00:21:24.33\00:21:26.70
give.
00:21:26.70\00:21:28.80
>>We're looking for partners and
friends who will join with us to
00:21:33.36\00:21:37.60
put this
literature out to the Masses.
00:21:37.60\00:21:39.66
To partner with Light Bearers
in spreading the gospel visit us
00:21:39.66\00:21:44.43
online at lightbearers.org
or call us toll free at
00:21:44.43\00:21:48.70
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00:21:48.70\00:21:51.80
You can also write to us
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00:21:51.80\00:21:56.73
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00:21:56.73\00:22:00.66
[Music]
00:22:00.66\00:22:07.03
>>It really is a privilege
to be a part of Light Bearers.
00:22:08.16\00:22:10.66
It's an international ministry
that is reaching out through
00:22:10.66\00:22:14.50
multiple different means.
00:22:14.50\00:22:16.23
The publishing work that God has
laid before us and has been so,
00:22:16.23\00:22:21.16
so widely received around the
world with multiplied millions
00:22:21.16\00:22:25.63
of publications going out.
00:22:25.63\00:22:27.83
The discipleship-training course
Arise what a blessing that is.
00:22:27.83\00:22:30.86
The opportunity just to preach
the gospel to the world in every
00:22:30.86\00:22:36.83
venue that the Lord opens
up for us it's privilege and I
00:22:36.83\00:22:41.06
thoroughly enjoy
working with you guys.
00:22:41.06\00:22:43.56
Just want you to know that.
00:22:43.56\00:22:44.53
>>Amen to that.
00:22:44.53\00:22:45.50
>>Yeah.
00:22:45.50\00:22:46.73
>>So we were talking about
the cross and you said you had a
00:22:46.73\00:22:49.46
huge point to make.
00:22:49.46\00:22:52.30
>>Huge.
00:22:52.30\00:22:52.86
>>Massive.
00:22:52.86\00:22:53.36
>>Huge.
00:22:53.36\00:22:54.03
>>Did I say huge?
00:22:54.03\00:22:55.13
>>You said huge several times.
00:22:55.13\00:22:56.33
>>For massive.
00:22:56.33\00:22:57.40
>>Ok so.
00:22:57.40\00:22:58.36
>>Use your hands like this.
00:22:58.36\00:22:59.63
>>We ended our last conversation
talking about how Jesus died not
00:22:59.63\00:23:03.53
only a physical...he experienced
not only a physical, emotional,
00:23:03.53\00:23:06.46
psychological but ontological
my soul is dying, not my back
00:23:06.46\00:23:10.46
aches.
00:23:10.46\00:23:11.20
>>Yeah.
00:23:11.20\00:23:12.70
>>Not my, you know,
heart is fluttering.
00:23:12.70\00:23:14.03
My soul is dying.
00:23:14.03\00:23:15.23
James had made the exactly
correct point that no one else
00:23:15.23\00:23:19.00
has ever experienced it.
00:23:19.00\00:23:20.16
This is a black box.
00:23:20.16\00:23:21.56
This is
00:23:21.56\00:23:22.40
>>We don't even
know what's there.
00:23:22.40\00:23:24.23
>>Unchartered water.
00:23:24.23\00:23:25.73
>>So here's what I love about
God so many things that the end
00:23:25.73\00:23:30.50
of time when unrepentant sinners
who insist on, we'll get to this
00:23:30.50\00:23:34.46
probably, who insist on clinging
to their sin and separating
00:23:34.46\00:23:37.40
themselves from God because God
doesn't' separate from them they
00:23:37.40\00:23:40.70
separate from God and
God honors that choice.
00:23:40.70\00:23:41.96
People will experience what the
bible calls the second death.
00:23:41.96\00:23:45.40
But here's what I love God does
not allow anyone to suffer the
00:23:45.40\00:23:50.70
second death before he
himself has experienced it.
00:23:50.70\00:23:56.93
>>That is huge.
00:23:56.93\00:23:57.73
That's huge.
00:23:57.73\00:23:58.63
>>Yeah that's
00:23:58.63\00:23:59.90
>>Massive because that reveals
the magnitude of God's love for
00:23:59.90\00:24:03.73
every member of the human race.
00:24:03.73\00:24:06.00
>>That's right.
00:24:06.00\00:24:06.76
>>It's astounding.
00:24:06.76\00:24:08.03
>>In fact in Revelation it says
those who believe in Christ on
00:24:08.03\00:24:11.16
these the second
death has no power.
00:24:11.16\00:24:13.50
So there's something that God
has done in our behalf that has
00:24:13.50\00:24:17.30
taken away the consequence.
00:24:17.30\00:24:19.76
>>But there's a logic to the
gospel there if those who are
00:24:19.76\00:24:23.73
partakers of the redemption that
is in Christ Jesus are not hurt
00:24:23.73\00:24:28.60
by the second death and the
second death has no power over
00:24:28.60\00:24:31.86
them.
00:24:31.86\00:24:33.13
The logic is that he, Jesus must
have endured the hurt and the
00:24:33.13\00:24:36.63
power of the second death on
their behalf for them to escape
00:24:36.63\00:24:39.06
it.
00:24:39.06\00:24:40.10
>>Absolutely.
00:24:40.10\00:24:41.90
>>The passage in scripture that
really illustrates this for me
00:24:41.90\00:24:44.70
is Matthew chapter 26.
00:24:44.70\00:24:46.06
We've spent some time in Matthew
27 in Matthew chapter 26 Jesus
00:24:46.06\00:24:50.20
in the last supper with his
disciples he breaks the bread
00:24:50.20\00:24:53.23
and he gives them the wine and
he says, this is pregnant with
00:24:53.23\00:24:56.30
meaning, he says this cup is the
new covenant the blood of the
00:24:56.30\00:25:00.56
new covenant
which he shed for many.
00:25:00.56\00:25:02.43
It's the only time the word
covenant occurs in the entire
00:25:02.43\00:25:05.83
gospel of Matthew I think.
00:25:05.83\00:25:07.10
And he gives them this cup, now
I am strongly of the opinion I'm
00:25:07.10\00:25:09.76
not adamant about it but I
believe it's the case that Jesus
00:25:09.76\00:25:12.56
himself did not
drink of that cup.
00:25:12.56\00:25:15.10
He gave the cup of
communion to his disciples.
00:25:15.10\00:25:17.83
In fact he said you drink all of
it, all of you drink it and then
00:25:17.83\00:25:21.46
it's either in Marks or Luke's
account where he says I will not
00:25:21.46\00:25:24.63
drink of this fruit of the vine
until the day I drink it with
00:25:24.63\00:25:27.93
you new in the
kingdom of heaven.
00:25:27.93\00:25:29.70
So it's as if Jesus is saying
this cup is now for you to
00:25:29.70\00:25:33.23
drink.
00:25:33.23\00:25:34.50
I won't drink of this until I
drink it with you in the kingdom
00:25:34.50\00:25:37.33
of heaven.
00:25:37.33\00:25:38.26
Now why wouldn't
Jesus drink the cup there?
00:25:38.26\00:25:39.50
If he did or didn't is not
the major point but here's why I
00:25:39.50\00:25:42.40
think he didn't just a few
verses later that's Matthew
00:25:42.40\00:25:46.00
chapter 26 where he's in the
last supper there at verse 27.
00:25:46.00\00:25:48.26
A few verses later he has
his own cup to drink out of.
00:25:48.26\00:25:53.43
>>A cup.
00:25:53.43\00:25:54.63
>>And he prays three times
Father let this cup pass from
00:25:54.63\00:25:58.83
me.
00:25:58.83\00:25:59.96
The cup that Jesus gave to
his disciples was the cup of
00:25:59.96\00:26:02.96
communion the cup of connection,
connectivity with God.
00:26:02.96\00:26:06.26
And he drinks the
cup of separation.
00:26:06.26\00:26:08.76
>>Yeah.
00:26:08.76\00:26:11.20
>>Beautiful
00:26:11.20\00:26:12.40
>>So he drinks the cup of
communion so they can drink...he
00:26:12.40\00:26:15.36
drinks the cup of separation
so they can drink the cup of
00:26:15.36\00:26:18.16
communion.
00:26:18.16\00:26:19.40
This to me is emblematic of
the very point that separation.
00:26:19.40\00:26:22.23
>>Is his.
00:26:22.23\00:26:24.93
>>Is his and the
communion is theirs.
00:26:24.93\00:26:26.93
>>Ok let me back that up...let
me back this up with a couple of
00:26:26.93\00:26:30.16
verses from Romans.
00:26:30.16\00:26:31.36
>>Please.
00:26:31.36\00:26:32.60
>>So Romans chapter 3 now I
never understood these verses 25
00:26:32.60\00:26:35.13
and 26 until I
read them in the NIV.
00:26:35.13\00:26:36.66
I even wrote them in my bible.
00:26:36.66\00:26:38.23
I'm a KJV guy so I wrote them in
my KJV because it crystallized
00:26:38.23\00:26:43.53
in my mind and here are the
verses that are backing up this
00:26:43.53\00:26:47.20
very point that Christ and
Christ alone has experienced
00:26:47.20\00:26:50.83
this second death
this forsakenness of God.
00:26:50.83\00:26:53.50
>>Romans 3?
00:26:53.50\00:26:54.93
>>Romans 3: 25 and 26 NIV.
00:26:54.93\00:26:57.26
It says God presented Christ as
a sacrifice of atonement through
00:26:57.26\00:27:02.70
the shedding of his
blood to be received by faith.
00:27:02.70\00:27:05.16
He did this to demonstrate his
righteousness because here it is
00:27:05.16\00:27:10.00
in his forbearance he had left
the sins committed before hand,
00:27:10.00\00:27:14.23
what's the next
word, unpunished.
00:27:14.23\00:27:17.20
He did it verse 26 to
demonstrate his righteousness at
00:27:17.20\00:27:20.76
the present time so as to be
just and the one who justifies
00:27:20.76\00:27:25.50
those who have faith in Jesus.
00:27:25.50\00:27:27.46
So in the middle of this whole
explanation Paul says the reason
00:27:27.46\00:27:31.23
why Christ is the atonement
he's the sacrifice for sins is
00:27:31.23\00:27:35.30
because God has never
punished previous sins.
00:27:35.30\00:27:38.46
He's left all those sins
committed beforehand unpunished.
00:27:38.46\00:27:40.56
You say wait a minute, wait
a minute again he punished the
00:27:40.56\00:27:43.83
andolivians didn't he?
00:27:43.83\00:27:45.26
Not the ultimate consequence.
00:27:45.26\00:27:46.80
Every single person who has ever
died is going to have, according
00:27:46.80\00:27:51.56
to John chapter 5, is going
to have a resurrection according
00:27:51.56\00:27:54.33
Revelation chapter 20 there's
gonna be a resurrection of the
00:27:54.33\00:27:56.36
good and the bad, of the
righteous and the unrighteous.
00:27:56.36\00:27:59.86
Jesus Christ came as the
and this is why I think it's so
00:27:59.86\00:28:04.16
powerful David when he is
confessing his iniquity, his sin
00:28:04.16\00:28:08.10
with Bathsheba in Psalm 51 he's
confessing to God and he says to
00:28:08.10\00:28:15.50
the Lord Psalm 51 he says
against thee verse 4 and thee
00:28:15.50\00:28:19.40
only have I sinned and
done deceitful in thy sight.
00:28:19.40\00:28:24.70
Wait a minute you
sinned against Bathsheba.
00:28:24.70\00:28:26.76
You sinned against Uriah.
00:28:26.76\00:28:27.73
You sinned
against the whole nation.
00:28:27.73\00:28:29.36
No against thee and thee only.
00:28:29.36\00:28:30.90
David is speaking here under the
inspiration of God in his heart
00:28:30.90\00:28:36.80
longing for atonement.
00:28:36.80\00:28:38.60
He's speaking of the ultimate
consequence for sin which points
00:28:38.60\00:28:41.93
to the Messiah, to Jesus.
00:28:41.93\00:28:43.20
>>Powerful.
00:28:43.20\00:28:44.40
>>I'm still hung up on the
Gethsemane picture with this cup
00:28:44.40\00:28:47.33
in his hand this cup is
trembling in his hand and he's
00:28:47.33\00:28:50.83
struggling and you
mentioned he prayed 3 times.
00:28:50.83\00:28:52.10
What was in that cup?
00:28:52.10\00:28:55.80
>>The cup idea.
00:28:55.80\00:28:57.23
>>It wasn't a literal cup.
00:28:57.23\00:29:00.16
>>Right.
00:29:00.16\00:29:00.83
>>It's metaphoric.
00:29:00.83\00:29:02.10
>>Even metaphoric what is this
cup that Christ is struggling
00:29:02.10\00:29:04.20
with?
00:29:04.20\00:29:04.90
>>The wrath of God against sin.
00:29:04.90\00:29:06.03
>>Do you think that he's
literally taking in the guilt
00:29:06.03\00:29:10.53
and the shame of?
00:29:10.53\00:29:11.63
>>Yes.
00:29:11.63\00:29:12.90
>>Of, our we talking every past
sin ever committed every sin at
00:29:12.90\00:29:17.83
the time and every future sin?
00:29:17.83\00:29:19.43
>>I think that would be James'
point there in Romans 3 yeah.
00:29:19.43\00:29:21.90
>>That's powerful.
00:29:21.90\00:29:23.10
Well when you think of guilt
I mean have you ever felt so
00:29:23.10\00:29:29.96
guilty where you wanna
just crawl on the floor?
00:29:29.96\00:29:34.06
>>Sure.
00:29:34.06\00:29:35.30
>>You can't even find...you
can't even stand to your feet
00:29:35.30\00:29:38.20
and I just think to myself that
all of that guilt Christ could
00:29:38.20\00:29:42.80
taste and experience in one
sitting so to speak at once.
00:29:42.80\00:29:48.33
Not just of one or two
individuals but the entire human
00:29:48.33\00:29:52.26
race because I could barely...
00:29:52.26\00:29:54.16
I could barely pull myself
together with just my own sin
00:29:54.16\00:29:59.96
and my own guilt.
00:29:59.96\00:30:01.20
>>And your own sin and
guilt you haven't even faced.
00:30:01.20\00:30:04.10
>>I don't even understand the
full extent of my own guilt and
00:30:04.10\00:30:06.96
shame and here Christ is
experiencing not only I mean
00:30:06.96\00:30:10.46
he's experiencing that for the
entire race, past, present and
00:30:10.46\00:30:15.16
future.
00:30:15.16\00:30:16.33
No wonder that in Luke it
says blood coming out of his
00:30:16.33\00:30:20.33
pores. >>Yeah.
00:30:20.33\00:30:21.53
>>Have you guys heard the
illustration...you're gonna go
00:30:21.53\00:30:25.23
to Psalm 88 right?
00:30:25.23\00:30:26.16
>>Sure but
00:30:26.16\00:30:27.50
>>Yeah you go to Psalms 88
because I want to tell this
00:30:27.50\00:30:30.06
illustration
after you've done that.
00:30:30.06\00:30:31.53
>>Ok, ok Psalm 88 is a passage
of scripture that is extremely
00:30:31.53\00:30:36.83
important because it gives
us a look into the psychological
00:30:36.83\00:30:41.73
dimension of the sufferings
of Christ as he goes through
00:30:41.73\00:30:45.50
Gethsemane and goes to Calvary.
00:30:45.50\00:30:47.66
In that sense it's unique.
00:30:47.66\00:30:48.86
It doesn't talk about the
physical suffering it's what's
00:30:48.86\00:30:51.20
going on in his mind and I'll
just read Psalm 88 and we'll
00:30:51.20\00:30:54.83
just note some of the
words very carefully here.
00:30:54.83\00:30:57.43
He, well I'll begin with verse 3
and he says notice this my soul,
00:30:57.43\00:31:00.63
my soul is full of troubles and
my life draws near to the grave.
00:31:00.63\00:31:06.53
I am counted with those
who go down into the pit.
00:31:06.53\00:31:10.73
This is amazing.
00:31:10.73\00:31:12.93
I am like a man who has no
strength verse 5 adrift among
00:31:12.93\00:31:18.40
the dead like the sling who lie
in the grave who you remember no
00:31:18.40\00:31:23.50
more.
00:31:23.50\00:31:26.06
That's second death language.
00:31:26.06\00:31:27.46
And who are cut off.
00:31:27.46\00:31:30.23
>>That's Daniel 9.
00:31:30.23\00:31:31.56
>>That's Daniel 9
cut off from your hand.
00:31:31.56\00:31:33.60
That's covenant
faithfulness language.
00:31:33.60\00:31:36.13
And verse 6 you have laid me
in the lowest pit in darkness in
00:31:36.13\00:31:40.63
the depths verse 7 your wrath
lies heavy upon me and you have
00:31:40.63\00:31:46.50
afflicted me with all
your ways Selah, pause, think.
00:31:46.50\00:31:51.56
Verse 8 you have put mine
acquaintances far from me.
00:31:51.56\00:31:56.50
You have made me an abomination
to them and notice this
00:31:56.50\00:31:59.53
line you guys, I am
shut up and I cannot get out.
00:31:59.53\00:32:04.60
Ok so shut up where?
00:32:04.60\00:32:07.20
The context is in the lowest
pit, in darkness, psycogical
00:32:07.20\00:32:12.13
darkness.
00:32:12.13\00:32:13.60
And in a overwhelming sense
of the wrath of God against sin.
00:32:13.60\00:32:18.10
He's experiencing all of this in
his soul it says in verse 3 and
00:32:18.10\00:32:23.33
in that dark, dark place of
separation from the Father and
00:32:23.33\00:32:28.46
the guilt of the human race he
says I'm shut up and I can't get
00:32:28.46\00:32:31.63
out.
00:32:31.63\00:32:33.93
This language is
resurrection language.
00:32:33.93\00:32:37.00
He's essentially saying I am
sinking into a death from which
00:32:37.00\00:32:41.53
I can't see any
hope of resurrection.
00:32:41.53\00:32:44.26
He could not see through the
portals of the tomb and the hope
00:32:44.26\00:32:50.46
of resurrection was blocked from
his vision mentally, emotionally
00:32:50.46\00:32:55.50
if you can imagine Jeffry what
you mentioned just a moment ago
00:32:55.50\00:32:59.63
what it would be like just
to bear your own guilt and shame
00:32:59.63\00:33:04.43
there would be a
sense of total isolation.
00:33:04.43\00:33:08.03
You're alone.
00:33:08.03\00:33:09.00
You're separated.
00:33:09.00\00:33:10.26
But imagine the compound reality
of all human transgression
00:33:10.26\00:33:14.13
weighing upon his conscious as
though he's the guilty part in
00:33:14.13\00:33:17.76
every sin ever committed.
00:33:17.76\00:33:19.70
And Jesus said I can't get out.
00:33:19.70\00:33:21.10
I don't see resurrection
from this death into which I'm
00:33:21.10\00:33:25.56
sinking.
00:33:25.56\00:33:26.33
That's second death language.
00:33:26.33\00:33:28.00
>>The phrase there two things
you said there Ty the first the
00:33:28.00\00:33:33.16
word there that jumps out at
me is the unremembered state.
00:33:33.16\00:33:36.53
You remember me
no more of verse 5.
00:33:36.53\00:33:40.30
Because to be unremembered to
be forgotten is to be forsaken.
00:33:40.30\00:33:44.16
It's not just that you're in
the pit you're in the closet.
00:33:44.16\00:33:47.46
You know somebody's coming.
00:33:47.46\00:33:48.66
No you feel as though you
will never be remembered again.
00:33:48.66\00:33:51.66
That's second death language.
00:33:51.66\00:33:52.86
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:33:52.86\00:33:53.83
>>And so that's just.
00:33:53.83\00:33:55.40
>>Mind blowing.
00:33:55.40\00:33:56.23
>>It's huge.
00:33:56.23\00:33:58.10
Let me share this illustration
with you, You just said
00:33:58.10\00:33:59.76
something about the compound
experience and this is a great
00:33:59.76\00:34:02.56
illustration.
00:34:02.56\00:34:03.50
I'm just going to
borrow it here from C.S.
00:34:03.50\00:34:05.46
Lewis and he basically says if
you could imagine someone in a
00:34:05.46\00:34:07.63
waiting room, say at
the dentist office, right.
00:34:07.63\00:34:10.93
And they're sitting in the
dentist's office and they have a
00:34:10.93\00:34:14.40
toothache and they
have a toothache of pain X.
00:34:14.40\00:34:18.16
Ok so we've all been to
the dentist before and so this,
00:34:18.16\00:34:21.73
we'll say this paper represents
the waiting office...the waiting
00:34:21.73\00:34:24.20
room.
00:34:24.20\00:34:24.96
The lobby.
00:34:24.96\00:34:26.10
And there's somebody
sitting there and they're pain
00:34:26.10\00:34:27.80
whatever that toothache pain
is...that's really great it's
00:34:27.80\00:34:29.60
pain X.
00:34:29.60\00:34:30.83
He says now imagine there's
somebody sitting next to that
00:34:30.83\00:34:32.56
person who also has a tooth ache
and his tooth ache is pain X.
00:34:32.56\00:34:37.96
So now you could say that in the
lobby there is 2X pain in the
00:34:37.96\00:34:45.60
room
00:34:45.60\00:34:46.56
>>Does X represent magnitude?
00:34:46.56\00:34:48.43
>>Right X represents whatever
the number is it could be a 7 it
00:34:48.43\00:34:50.46
could be an 8 it
could be whatever it is.
00:34:50.46\00:34:52.03
How would you quantify it right?
00:34:52.03\00:34:53.23
>>So it is magnitude.
00:34:53.23\00:34:54.33
>>It's magnitude,
yeah intensity, intensity.
00:34:54.33\00:34:56.56
So now you have two people who
obviously have 2X pain, we could
00:34:56.56\00:34:59.13
make it 3X, 4X, 5S however many
tooth aches are in the office.
00:34:59.13\00:35:02.10
And then Lewis, this is Lewis'
point he says but even though
00:35:02.10\00:35:05.43
there's 2X pain or 3X or
4X pain in the room no one is
00:35:05.43\00:35:08.36
experiencing 2X, 3X or 4X.
00:35:08.36\00:35:13.76
Everybody can only
experience the pain that you can
00:35:13.76\00:35:16.16
experience.
00:35:16.16\00:35:17.63
And then he basically his point
is we can talk about the sum of
00:35:17.63\00:35:21.76
misery in the world or
the sum total of suffering.
00:35:21.76\00:35:25.60
But he says a lot of this talk
is no sensible because you can
00:35:25.60\00:35:28.70
only experience the pain
that you can experience, you can
00:35:28.70\00:35:32.23
experience, you can experience
even though the pain that you
00:35:32.23\00:35:36.20
feel for your son is
still filtered through your
00:35:36.20\00:35:37.80
experience.
00:35:37.80\00:35:39.03
But Jesus the Lord has laid
on him the iniquity of us all.
00:35:39.03\00:35:42.43
>>Isaiah 52:6
00:35:42.43\00:35:44.50
>>So you take billion x of that
chain that you are talking about
00:35:44.50\00:35:49.30
and you lay it on Christ
and no wonder his [snapping]
00:35:49.30\00:35:51.90
>>That's awesome and that's
why well what's the difference?
00:35:51.90\00:35:55.13
Yeah he got toward your for a
little bit ok I can get tortured
00:35:55.13\00:35:58.43
but that's the point is that
at the end of the day when the
00:35:58.43\00:36:01.00
General gets tortured for his
soldiers he's only experiencing
00:36:01.00\00:36:07.83
his 1X.
00:36:07.83\00:36:10.93
He's not
experiencing individual X's.
00:36:10.93\00:36:14.10
>>How can you?
00:36:14.10\00:36:15.30
>>That's the point but in
Calvary at Calvary is the only
00:36:15.30\00:36:18.66
moment in history where all
the X's are piled up as you were
00:36:18.66\00:36:22.76
saying on one individual.
00:36:22.76\00:36:23.96
That's the big distinction.
00:36:23.96\00:36:25.23
>>What's the thing that enables
God to experience all of the X's
00:36:25.23\00:36:29.76
laid upon him?
00:36:29.76\00:36:30.66
What's the thing
that enables him?
00:36:30.66\00:36:31.83
It's that he's divine.
00:36:31.83\00:36:32.80
He is divine as God.
00:36:32.80\00:36:35.26
>>He has an infinite capacity.
00:36:35.26\00:36:36.80
>>Exactly.
00:36:36.80\00:36:37.93
He has if you just think
infinitely broad shoulders that
00:36:37.93\00:36:41.40
just extend clear out into
the vast, you know in metaphor
00:36:41.40\00:36:45.33
language so that every sin,
James' sin put that, Jeffrey's
00:36:45.33\00:36:48.43
sin.
00:36:48.43\00:36:49.10
>>Finish it all.
00:36:49.10\00:36:50.33
Real quick Daniel chapter 9
'cause you mentioned the phrase
00:36:50.33\00:36:54.23
cut off.
00:36:54.23\00:36:55.46
Well Daniel 9 also connects
to Psalm 88 in Daniel chapter 9
00:36:55.46\00:36:59.26
verse 24.
00:36:59.26\00:37:00.33
>>Yes.
00:37:00.33\00:37:01.60
>>It talks about the weeks that
are turned upon the people in
00:37:01.60\00:37:03.60
the holy city to finish
transgression, to finish it.
00:37:03.60\00:37:07.26
I'm going to finish it.
00:37:07.26\00:37:08.43
>>To put an end to it.
00:37:08.43\00:37:09.70
>>This word finish is the same
Hebrew word you find in Psalm
00:37:09.70\00:37:13.03
88:8 I am shut up
and I cannot come forth.
00:37:13.03\00:37:16.33
That word shut
up means to finish.
00:37:16.33\00:37:18.63
>>I'm finished.
00:37:18.63\00:37:19.96
>>Yes I'm finished.
00:37:19.96\00:37:21.30
And that connects to 2
Corinthians 5:21 he became sin
00:37:21.30\00:37:24.70
for us.
00:37:24.70\00:37:25.43
And he was shut up as sin.
00:37:25.43\00:37:27.13
He was finished.
00:37:27.13\00:37:29.10
He was completely
crushed right here.
00:37:29.10\00:37:31.30
And I love this because In
Daniel 9:24 he's gonna finish
00:37:31.30\00:37:34.90
transgression.
00:37:34.90\00:37:36.20
He's gonna make it into sin and
he's gonna make reconciliation
00:37:36.20\00:37:38.96
for iniquity.
00:37:38.96\00:37:40.23
Sin, transgression...you can't
describe what we need taken care
00:37:40.23\00:37:44.23
of in any outside of any of
those sin, transgression all
00:37:44.23\00:37:47.36
taken care of and it's
finished in Jesus name.
00:37:47.36\00:37:49.70
>>And Jesus the sum of Jesus
last words on the cross is very
00:37:49.70\00:37:52.26
quickly there
where it is finished.
00:37:52.26\00:37:54.00
>>Do you think?
00:37:54.00\00:37:55.50
>>Yeah, Yeah/.
00:37:55.50\00:37:56.60
>>What is finished?
00:37:56.60\00:37:57.73
Transgression, sin.
00:37:57.73\00:37:58.36
>It's all over.
00:37:58.36\00:37:59.56
>>Yeah David you said, you
said that he had a capacity for
00:37:59.56\00:38:02.86
suffering and I said infinite
capacity and you likened it to
00:38:02.86\00:38:06.46
broad shoulders.
00:38:06.46\00:38:08.03
But intangible language I think
what's happening there is God's
00:38:08.03\00:38:12.80
capacity for suffering is equal
to the infinitude of his love.
00:38:12.80\00:38:18.83
>>Yeah.
00:38:18.83\00:38:19.96
>>Because yeah because
here's the thing about love.
00:38:19.96\00:38:21.66
The more I love you the
more I hurt when you hurt.
00:38:21.66\00:38:26.33
So there's an empathy.
00:38:26.33\00:38:28.70
There's something going on
there where I'm psychologically
00:38:28.70\00:38:32.46
feeling what you feel by virtue
of the fact hat I love you and
00:38:32.46\00:38:36.00
God's love is infinite and
therefore he infinitely feels
00:38:36.00\00:38:41.16
the pain of and the weight of
the sin of the whole world as we
00:38:41.16\00:38:49.26
say.
00:38:49.26\00:38:50.50
The sin of the whole world
is upon his broad shoulders of
00:38:50.50\00:38:52.86
infinite love.
00:38:52.86\00:38:54.90
>>It's like your cup is love and
the water represents the pain
00:38:54.90\00:38:57.83
the bigger the cup the more
capacity for water and if water
00:38:57.83\00:39:03.26
is pain
00:39:03.26\00:39:04.23
>>If the cup is love.
00:39:04.23\00:39:05.93
>>That's powerful.
00:39:05.93\00:39:06.90
My cup is so small
I can only experience.
00:39:06.90\00:39:09.93
>>God's love qualified him God
so loved the world it qualified
00:39:09.93\00:39:13.63
him to be able to
take the sin of the world.
00:39:13.63\00:39:15.66
>>And his love made sin all the
more repulsive, repugnant and
00:39:15.66\00:39:19.63
ugly to him.
00:39:19.63\00:39:20.96
To us sin, you know you watch
movies, you see this we're so
00:39:20.96\00:39:24.16
surrounded by that
we've become calloused to.
00:39:24.16\00:39:27.80
God is infinitely pure,
infinitely loving so sin would
00:39:27.80\00:39:30.76
have been.
00:39:30.76\00:39:32.30
>>His nature it coils from it.
00:39:32.30\00:39:34.60
>>Yeah, yeah.
00:39:34.60\00:39:36.20
Hey we have to take a break and
we don't want to take a break.
00:39:36.20\00:39:38.20
>>These breaks can be painful.
00:39:38.20\00:39:39.46
>>Yeah not as painful as
what we're talking about.
00:39:39.46\00:39:41.93
But this breaks gonna.
00:39:41.93\00:39:43.30
>>We're cutting
away to great things.
00:39:43.30\00:39:44.70
>>Yeah, yeah so we'll just take
a break and we'll just come back
00:39:44.70\00:39:48.66
and continue on.
00:39:48.66\00:39:49.93
>>Amen.
00:39:49.93\00:39:51.06
Announcer: Territorial Forces
is a tour to force through
00:39:51.06\00:39:58.63
scripture regarding the
very real spiritual warfare.
00:39:58.63\00:40:01.93
It is continually transpiring
over every nation, home and
00:40:01.93\00:40:05.83
individual person.
00:40:05.83\00:40:07.20
For your free copy call
1-877-585-1111 or write to Light
00:40:07.20\00:40:14.13
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00:40:14.13\00:40:20.23
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00:40:32.40\00:40:36.50
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00:40:36.50\00:40:48.16
>>Somebody might say ok
beautiful a man named Jesus has
00:40:48.16\00:40:52.70
died some 2000 years ago.
00:40:52.70\00:40:54.90
Well I wasn't there,
you weren't there so what?
00:40:54.90\00:40:57.70
Somebody died 2000 years ago
what does that have to do with
00:40:57.70\00:41:03.36
me now?
00:41:03.36\00:41:04.63
I mean it's a different world
it's a different time in earth's
00:41:04.63\00:41:06.90
history.
00:41:06.90\00:41:08.16
I think it would be interesting
for us to dig a little deeper
00:41:08.16\00:41:10.73
now and to discuss what
are the can I say existential
00:41:10.73\00:41:15.90
implications?
00:41:15.90\00:41:16.83
What are the.
00:41:16.83\00:41:17.66
>>By this you mean experiential?
00:41:17.66\00:41:18.90
>>Yeah what are the implications
to our daily...how does that
00:41:18.90\00:41:22.83
affect me in other words?
00:41:22.83\00:41:23.93
>>It's like the old
thing what, so what, now what?
00:41:23.93\00:41:25.96
>>What are we talking
about so what's the big deal.
00:41:25.96\00:41:30.83
Now what?
00:41:30.83\00:41:31.66
Now what?
00:41:31.66\00:41:32.86
>>That's right I'm gonna
open the door at 2 Corinthians
00:41:32.86\00:41:39.40
chapter 5 and with you guys
around the table we may not go
00:41:39.40\00:41:41.60
anywhere else.
00:41:41.60\00:41:42.83
I know that this is some heavy
beautiful salvation theology
00:41:42.83\00:41:47.16
here.
00:41:47.16\00:41:48.43
2 Corinthians chapter 5 and I'm
just going to open with verse 14
00:41:48.43\00:41:52.83
that talks about the more we
encounter this whole idea of a
00:41:52.83\00:41:58.83
cross and Jesus at Calvary the
more it produces some kind of a
00:41:58.83\00:42:02.63
knee jerk
reaction in individuals.
00:42:02.63\00:42:06.36
I'm zoning in on
the word compel there.
00:42:06.36\00:42:08.70
But it says the love of Christ
compels us, produces a reaction
00:42:08.70\00:42:13.76
because we judge thus that if
one died for all then all died
00:42:13.76\00:42:17.40
and he died for all that those
who live should no longer live
00:42:17.40\00:42:22.40
for themselves but for him who
died for them and rose again.
00:42:22.40\00:42:26.63
The closer according to the text
maybe you guys can engage in
00:42:26.63\00:42:32.56
this the closer we counter what
Christ did on the cross the more
00:42:32.56\00:42:39.93
that impacts us and apparently
it compels us to something.
00:42:39.93\00:42:44.26
>>Well I'll engage with it I
think this is one of the high
00:42:44.26\00:42:48.70
points in scripture.
00:42:48.70\00:42:50.20
>>I agree.
00:42:50.20\00:42:51.46
>>I love this all the way down
to verse 21 Paul has achieved a
00:42:51.46\00:42:54.83
very high level of clarity
here the love of Christ is the
00:42:54.83\00:42:58.80
compelling factor.
00:42:58.80\00:43:01.63
Another way of saying that and
perhaps a little bit more modern
00:43:01.63\00:43:04.80
vernacular is the love of Christ
is the motivational force of the
00:43:04.80\00:43:10.26
gospel.
00:43:10.26\00:43:11.73
That's what prompts me to things
that I would never be able to do
00:43:11.73\00:43:15.03
in and of myself and that's what
prevents me from doing things
00:43:15.03\00:43:18.76
I'm super inclined to do.
00:43:18.76\00:43:20.73
I'm inclined to sin and I'm not
inclined to righteousness and
00:43:20.73\00:43:25.66
the love of Christ it has an
effect of keeping me from sin
00:43:25.66\00:43:29.63
from the inside
'cause it motivates me.
00:43:29.63\00:43:33.86
>>What it matters.
00:43:33.86\00:43:35.60
>>Yeah and it drives me maybe
that's not the it compels me
00:43:35.60\00:43:38.96
maybe that's not the best word.
00:43:38.96\00:43:40.36
It urges me on.
00:43:40.36\00:43:41.60
It motivates me and verse 15
tells us that it motivates us
00:43:41.60\00:43:47.06
and gives us a change of heart
at the most fundamental level.
00:43:47.06\00:43:50.90
It says and that he died for
that those who live should not
00:43:50.90\00:43:54.93
no longer live for themselves
but for he who died for them and
00:43:54.93\00:43:58.73
rose again.
00:43:58.73\00:43:59.66
So selfishness,
self-centeredness as we've
00:43:59.66\00:44:03.36
discovered in previous
conversations is the real core
00:44:03.36\00:44:06.80
of the sin problem.
00:44:06.80\00:44:08.60
Right?
00:44:08.60\00:44:09.96
Selfishness took the place
of love in the fall of mankind.
00:44:09.96\00:44:12.13
That's what's going on.
00:44:12.13\00:44:14.20
Well the cross of Calvary
and the love of Christ that is
00:44:14.20\00:44:17.70
revealed there re-establishes
love as the basis of my
00:44:17.70\00:44:20.86
ontological existence, by
being, my living, my relating to
00:44:20.86\00:44:25.33
everybody around me and the way
it does that is that I breaks
00:44:25.33\00:44:30.20
the power of
selfishness in my heart.
00:44:30.20\00:44:31.83
My focus is now on the one
who dies for me and rose again.
00:44:31.83\00:44:35.20
It's not any longer on me
and you know me, myself and I.
00:44:35.20\00:44:39.70
That's the love of Christ
and it's what did you say it's
00:44:39.70\00:44:43.56
existential impact of a
human being who encounters it.
00:44:43.56\00:44:48.43
>>I think that in many
ways 2Corinthians 5 this whole
00:44:48.43\00:44:53.30
passage 14 down to 21 actually
12 to 21 but especially verse
00:44:53.30\00:44:56.93
15, 14 and 15 together just
really that is the gospel Jesus
00:44:56.93\00:45:02.13
died so that from this point
forward those that have put
00:45:02.13\00:45:07.06
their faith in his faithfulness,
those that have put their belief
00:45:07.06\00:45:10.26
in his faithfulness, they would
not live for themselves but for
00:45:10.26\00:45:13.96
him.
00:45:13.96\00:45:15.10
Really if the whole New
Testament was those two verses
00:45:15.10\00:45:19.50
with the story of Jesus
having died on the cross.
00:45:19.50\00:45:22.06
You'd have plenty.
00:45:22.06\00:45:24.93
You'd have the unpacking of the
character of God that we began
00:45:24.93\00:45:28.60
with God is love God is a
relational community Father,
00:45:28.60\00:45:32.03
Son and Holy Spirit.
00:45:32.03\00:45:33.26
And God gives one member of
the Godhead for God so loved the
00:45:33.26\00:45:37.56
world that he gave
his only begotten son.
00:45:37.56\00:45:39.40
That son is given not just
in a temporal sense or in a
00:45:39.40\00:45:44.00
historical sense he is
given to the human race.
00:45:44.00\00:45:47.80
>>Eternally?
00:45:47.80\00:45:49.06
>>Eternally yeah I think that's
what it means in Hebrew when it
00:45:49.06\00:45:52.03
says for which cause he is not
ashamed to call them brethren.
00:45:52.03\00:45:55.10
That we are bound to Christ by
a cord that will never be broken
00:45:55.10\00:45:59.40
and that how could
you not want to serve him.
00:45:59.40\00:46:05.56
I know there are always going to
be those saying oh yeah, yeah,
00:46:05.56\00:46:08.66
yeah, yeah but what's my part.
00:46:08.66\00:46:10.26
Oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah but the law.
00:46:10.26\00:46:12.73
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah but the commandments.
00:46:12.73\00:46:14.23
Oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah but obedience.
00:46:14.23\00:46:15.73
And amen to that.
00:46:15.73\00:46:17.00
But it's not this and this.
00:46:17.00\00:46:18.43
Oh look at this this is nice.
00:46:18.43\00:46:20.43
Ok and now we close
that door and now this.
00:46:20.43\00:46:22.43
No it's a continuum.
00:46:22.43\00:46:24.20
That creates this.
00:46:24.20\00:46:28.16
>>It's all part of the same.
00:46:28.16\00:46:29.43
>>Of course because the love
of Christ that's the story we're
00:46:29.43\00:46:32.26
talking about, the love of
Christ urges me on to not live
00:46:32.26\00:46:34.70
for myself.
00:46:34.70\00:46:35.90
>>Right it does something,
something more than that, well
00:46:35.90\00:46:38.30
it's not more than that but Paul
describes something that's a
00:46:38.30\00:46:41.43
part of that.
00:46:41.43\00:46:42.23
>>Part of that.
00:46:42.23\00:46:43.46
>>He says in verse 16 therefore
from now on we regard no one
00:46:43.46\00:46:45.86
according to the flesh.
00:46:45.86\00:46:48.36
That is incredible because that
is basically saying that the
00:46:48.36\00:46:52.76
cross of Christ or the love of
Christ manifested at the cross
00:46:52.76\00:46:55.93
impacts our relationships with
every other member of the human
00:46:55.93\00:46:59.60
race.
00:46:59.60\00:47:00.76
We don't see anyone we
don't regard anyone any longer
00:47:00.76\00:47:03.70
according to their natural
carnality we regard people now
00:47:03.70\00:47:07.83
as they are in Christ and the
objective fact of his covenant
00:47:07.83\00:47:12.40
faithfulness.
00:47:12.40\00:47:13.66
And now our relationships with
everybody based on verse 15 is
00:47:13.66\00:47:17.33
that he died for all and there's
some sense that the fact that he
00:47:17.33\00:47:22.03
died for all means
that all died in him.
00:47:22.03\00:47:23.70
>>Yeah that's right.
00:47:23.70\00:47:26.43
>>That's the incredible truth of
the gospel because Jesus entered
00:47:26.43\00:47:32.73
into a corporate solidarity with
the human race so that when he
00:47:32.73\00:47:35.60
dies on the cross there's a
sense in which Paul's thinking
00:47:35.60\00:47:37.76
the whole human race is
encompassed in that death.
00:47:37.76\00:47:40.03
>>That's why he calls him Adam.
00:47:40.03\00:47:42.06
>>So you look
different to me now Jeffrey.
00:47:42.06\00:47:43.43
The lady at the grocery store
that I pay for my groceries she.
00:47:43.43\00:47:45.90
I see her now through the lens
of the love of Christ because he
00:47:45.90\00:47:50.46
died for her as well as for me.
00:47:50.46\00:47:54.00
>>And the terrorists and
the bombers and the people that
00:47:54.00\00:47:56.63
commit genocide and the serial
and the abusive father and it's
00:47:56.63\00:48:00.13
not easy.
00:48:00.13\00:48:01.13
We're not
pretending that it's easy.
00:48:01.13\00:48:03.06
But Paul is saying deep
breath I'm going to relate to my
00:48:03.06\00:48:07.16
persecutors my accusers to
my betrayers to the gossipers.
00:48:07.16\00:48:10.20
I'm going to relate to them not
as they are but as they can be
00:48:10.20\00:48:14.80
and as they are in Christ.
00:48:14.80\00:48:16.10
>> That's exactly was Jesus said
Father forgive them for they
00:48:16.10\00:48:19.30
know not.
00:48:19.30\00:48:20.20
>>They don't know
what they're doing.
00:48:20.20\00:48:22.16
>>They don't have a
clue what they're doing.
00:48:22.16\00:48:24.26
>>Yeah.
00:48:24.26\00:48:25.26
>>And that's how we're
supposed to be relating.
00:48:25.26\00:48:26.93
>>The keynote of the world is
to know man after the flesh the
00:48:26.93\00:48:30.30
keynote of the gospel is to know
man as they are in Jesus Christ.
00:48:30.30\00:48:33.83
So and it really follows I mean
if you look at these verses it
00:48:33.83\00:48:38.23
follows the judging verse
14 that if one died for all
00:48:38.23\00:48:42.26
everyone died.
00:48:42.26\00:48:43.93
Verse 14 if one died for all
then everyone died, all died and
00:48:43.93\00:48:47.76
verse15 and he died for all that
those who live should no longer
00:48:47.76\00:48:51.76
live for themselves but for
him who died for them and rose
00:48:51.76\00:48:54.36
again.
00:48:54.36\00:48:55.63
Therefore if we understand this
these last two points, therefore
00:48:55.63\00:48:59.00
from now on.we don't regard
anyone in the flesh 'cause he
00:48:59.00\00:49:02.13
died he paid the sins for all
of those people who are living
00:49:02.13\00:49:05.63
according to the flesh.
00:49:05.63\00:49:06.90
He already died for all those
people and he's paid the price
00:49:06.90\00:49:09.83
he's paid the
penalty for their sins.
00:49:09.83\00:49:11.53
Then we don't look
at him that way anymore.
00:49:11.53\00:49:14.13
And then verse 17 therefore if
anyone is in Christ he is a new
00:49:14.13\00:49:19.23
creature he is a new creation.
00:49:19.23\00:49:20.56
He sees people differently now.
00:49:20.56\00:49:22.96
>>That's right.
00:49:22.96\00:49:23.80
>>He sees
everyone differently now.
00:49:23.80\00:49:24.90
>>Wow that's huge.
00:49:24.90\00:49:25.86
>>He sees according
00:49:25.86\00:49:27.00
>>We could spend time on that.
00:49:27.00\00:49:28.63
>>To what Christ has placed in
them the value that Christ has
00:49:28.63\00:49:33.73
put in them.
00:49:33.73\00:49:34.43
>>It's gonna take us way back.
00:49:34.43\00:49:36.23
You go ahead, you go ahead.
00:49:36.23\00:49:37.80
>>I'm just saying that old
gospel song he saw not what I
00:49:37.80\00:49:40.90
was he saw what I could be.
00:49:40.90\00:49:43.16
>>I don't know that song.
00:49:43.16\00:49:44.96
Wanna sing it for us?
00:49:44.96\00:49:46.26
>>No [Laughter]
00:49:46.26\00:49:49.20
>>Beautiful gospel song.
00:49:49.20\00:49:50.43
>>This takes us way back to
1Corinthians 13 which we spend a
00:49:50.43\00:49:51.96
lot of time brooding over that
passage in the first three the
00:49:51.96\00:49:56.10
love chapter.
00:49:56.10\00:49:57.36
Love believes all
things, hopes all things,
00:49:57.36\00:50:00.23
>>Endures all things.
00:50:00.23\00:50:02.63
>>Endures all things so Jesus
now this might sound a little
00:50:02.63\00:50:06.80
cheeky here but tell
me what you think of this.
00:50:06.80\00:50:09.90
I love this idea.
00:50:09.90\00:50:11.70
We come to believe
in God's belief in us.
00:50:11.70\00:50:13.73
>>Oh.
00:50:13.73\00:50:14.53
>>Yes.
00:50:14.53\00:50:15.06
>>Love it.
00:50:15.06\00:50:16.23
>>God believes he sees
what Jeffrey can become and his
00:50:16.23\00:50:18.06
belief in you
inspires your belief.
00:50:18.06\00:50:21.43
>>That's not cheeky at all.
00:50:21.43\00:50:23.96
That's the gospel.
00:50:23.96\00:50:25.16
>>I just meant that cheeky
was the play on the language.
00:50:25.16\00:50:28.40
We believe in his
belief on us in us.
00:50:28.40\00:50:31.46
I love that.
00:50:31.46\00:50:33.13
>>You know what's incredible
about this though I think from
00:50:33.13\00:50:36.50
my perspective is Paul says
that he makes this point again.
00:50:36.50\00:50:40.10
He's not done with this point.
00:50:40.10\00:50:41.90
He makes the point the first
time and it's as if we wont'
00:50:41.90\00:50:46.36
quite get it as he goes through
verses 14, 15 and 16 so in verse
00:50:46.36\00:50:49.76
17 he goes back.
00:50:49.76\00:50:51.80
You know he's premising it on
the therefores but he's picking
00:50:51.80\00:50:55.36
it up now and he's
gonna repeat the same thought.
00:50:55.36\00:50:58.13
And check this out therefore if
anyone is in Christ is is a new
00:50:58.13\00:51:00.56
creation, old things have passed
away behold all things have
00:51:00.56\00:51:04.03
become new.
00:51:04.03\00:51:05.50
Now all things are of God
who has reconciled us to himself
00:51:05.50\00:51:08.40
through Jesus Christ and
has given to us the ministry of
00:51:08.40\00:51:13.73
reconciliation.
00:51:13.73\00:51:15.20
That is that God was sin Christ
reconciling the world to him not
00:51:15.20\00:51:19.93
imputing their trespasses to
them and has committed to us the
00:51:19.93\00:51:26.33
word of reconciliation.
00:51:26.33\00:51:27.73
Now then we are ambassadors
for Christ as though God were
00:51:27.73\00:51:31.50
pleaing through us to employ
you on Christ's behalf to be
00:51:31.50\00:51:35.26
reconciled to God.
00:51:35.26\00:51:36.53
So you see how he's repeating
that he's saying this is what
00:51:36.53\00:51:39.13
happened at the cross we're new
creatures we don't see anyone
00:51:39.13\00:51:41.66
according to the flesh.
00:51:41.66\00:51:42.93
By the way this is how God did
this he reconciled the world to
00:51:42.93\00:51:46.56
himself by not counting
their sins against them.
00:51:46.56\00:51:48.26
We're giving to you you've
been given this same ministry.
00:51:48.26\00:51:51.20
You're now ambassadors you
know what an ambassador is?
00:51:51.20\00:51:53.86
An ambassador is the
highest-ranking official from
00:51:53.86\00:51:56.50
one government to the next.
00:51:56.50\00:51:58.26
We are the highest-ranking
officials from the government of
00:51:58.26\00:52:00.93
heaven to the
people of this earth.
00:52:00.93\00:52:03.30
And the seal of our
ambassadorship is the way we
00:52:03.30\00:52:09.53
relate to people who are sinners
walking according to the flesh.
00:52:09.53\00:52:12.83
>>And the message that we have
as ambassadors is be reconciled
00:52:12.83\00:52:16.46
to God and it's on the premise
of the fact in verse 19 that
00:52:16.46\00:52:20.76
he's already reconciled to us
because you read I think it was
00:52:20.76\00:52:26.73
New King James or King
James version not imputing their
00:52:26.73\00:52:29.16
trespasses under them.
00:52:29.16\00:52:30.53
I think the NIV says not
counting men's sins against
00:52:30.53\00:52:33.26
them.
00:52:33.26\00:52:34.56
And an easy way to understand
that point is to simply ask the
00:52:34.56\00:52:38.70
question what would happen right
now if God were to actually hold
00:52:38.70\00:52:43.06
the whole world everyone of us
accountable for our sins in the
00:52:43.06\00:52:47.70
full degree?
00:52:47.70\00:52:48.70
Boom.
00:52:48.70\00:52:50.83
>>The world would just.
00:52:50.83\00:52:53.03
>>Annihilation.
00:52:53.03\00:52:54.13
We'd cease to exist.
00:52:54.13\00:52:55.26
The fact that we live and
move and have being at all.
00:52:55.26\00:52:57.26
The fact that we wake up and we
take in oxygen and we interact
00:52:57.26\00:53:00.16
with one another.
00:53:00.16\00:53:01.30
And we eat our daily food.
00:53:01.30\00:53:03.80
Is evidence that Jesus was given
to and for the whole human race
00:53:03.80\00:53:09.20
and that he achieved something
monumental on our behalf as
00:53:09.20\00:53:13.90
human beings.
00:53:13.90\00:53:14.76
>>Monumental and universal.
00:53:14.76\00:53:16.26
>>And Universal.
00:53:16.26\00:53:17.53
>The word here reconciled and
I know in our next conversation
00:53:17.53\00:53:20.66
we're going to be talking about
the restoration of all things.
00:53:20.66\00:53:22.66
That's where this sends me.
00:53:22.66\00:53:24.30
Because the word reconcile comes
from re which is the prefix to
00:53:24.30\00:53:28.36
do again and it comes from
the word council which means to
00:53:28.36\00:53:31.20
meet, to come
together, to council.
00:53:31.20\00:53:32.90
If you have a council
meeting it's coming together.
00:53:32.90\00:53:34.76
So to reconcile is to be brought
back together, to convene the
00:53:34.76\00:53:40.00
council again.
00:53:40.00\00:53:42.20
So if you could just imagine
God has his....God is a family
00:53:42.20\00:53:45.83
Father, Son and Holy Spirit who
then makes the human family so
00:53:45.83\00:53:48.10
now the family of God is this
increasingly expansive thing.
00:53:48.10\00:53:51.16
But then that, that
connectivity is broken.
00:53:51.16\00:53:53.76
It's broken.
00:53:53.76\00:53:54.83
>>Genesis.
00:53:54.83\00:53:56.36
>>Yeah that's right.
00:53:56.36\00:53:57.43
>>Cool of the day
and we were hiding.
00:53:57.43\00:53:58.80
>>So God becomes a man, is
faithful to the covenant, keeps
00:53:58.80\00:54:02.90
the covenant, loves God with
all of his heart, mind and soul.
00:54:02.90\00:54:06.23
Loves his neighbor like his
self, re-establishes connection
00:54:06.23\00:54:08.20
with God.
00:54:08.20\00:54:09.30
This was your point in
Hebrews 7 and now reconcil....
00:54:09.30\00:54:11.93
reconnection is taken place.
00:54:11.93\00:54:14.00
This is the state of
the universe in Christ.
00:54:14.00\00:54:17.90
>>Praise God.
00:54:17.90\00:54:19.46
Yeah.
00:54:19.46\00:54:21.30
>>Ty if I can ask again all
of this stuff is coming out of 2
00:54:21.30\00:54:25.00
Corinthians 5 and there's
a statement here that all
00:54:25.00\00:54:27.53
things....old things have passed
away all things become new.
00:54:27.53\00:54:31.16
Right?
00:54:31.16\00:54:33.13
So it doesn't say that the
sinner modifies into something
00:54:33.13\00:54:38.00
slightly better or improves
it says he is a new creature.
00:54:38.00\00:54:43.33
So I asked earlier a man
died 2000 years ago beautiful.
00:54:43.33\00:54:47.16
What does that
have to do with me now?
00:54:47.16\00:54:49.46
I wonder this whole idea
of newness what...how does the
00:54:49.46\00:54:54.36
cross of Calvary and everything
God has accomplished how does
00:54:54.36\00:54:59.46
that produce
newness to an individual?
00:54:59.46\00:55:03.43
>>That's a great question.
00:55:03.43\00:55:05.70
>>Well we've already seen it in
the context the love of Christ
00:55:05.70\00:55:09.16
is manifested in Christ in the
fact that he died for all when
00:55:09.16\00:55:13.63
we see that
according to the apostle Paul.
00:55:13.63\00:55:17.43
When we comprehend it
it has an effect on us.
00:55:17.43\00:55:21.50
There's a cause
the love of Christ.
00:55:21.50\00:55:24.10
There's an
effect transformation.
00:55:24.10\00:55:26.30
That's the simplest
way that I can explain it.
00:55:26.30\00:55:30.00
>>Can I even say to and I think
that's exactly right another
00:55:30.00\00:55:32.56
dimension to it that we just
kissed a couple of times but
00:55:32.56\00:55:35.60
have not dwelt on is that
Christ becomes a new humanity.
00:55:35.60\00:55:39.53
Christ is the second Adam and
when we are born again right?
00:55:39.53\00:55:44.63
Because when we are born the
first time we're born into the
00:55:44.63\00:55:47.83
world of Adam right?
00:55:47.83\00:55:49.43
Not by our own choice but when
we are born again we are born
00:55:49.43\00:55:53.06
into a new representation, a
new humanity with Christ as the
00:55:53.06\00:55:56.60
head.
00:55:56.60\00:55:57.60
>>So Calvary teaches
us how to truly be human.
00:55:57.60\00:55:59.36
Jesus came to teach us.
00:55:59.36\00:56:01.36
>>That's a great
way of saying it.
00:56:01.36\00:56:02.96
>>How to truly be humans.
00:56:02.96\00:56:03.90
>>He's the new man.
00:56:03.90\00:56:05.30
>>So if Calvary is a statement
against selfishness then the
00:56:05.30\00:56:09.46
conversion experience, the born
again experience that we often
00:56:09.46\00:56:12.40
speak of is basically a
collision with Calvary with the
00:56:12.40\00:56:16.03
greatest expression of unselfish
love and that encounter burns up
00:56:16.03\00:56:21.73
all the selfishness in my life
and pretty soon I begin to hate
00:56:21.73\00:56:27.06
the things that God hates and to
love the things that God loves.
00:56:27.06\00:56:29.80
>>Remember when Ty
used the word inevitable.
00:56:29.80\00:56:31.86
>>Yeah it's inevitable that
now my reaction to that is a
00:56:31.86\00:56:36.50
transformation of life.
00:56:36.50\00:56:38.96
>>He compels it but some people
are uncomfortable with that
00:56:38.96\00:56:42.36
Jeffry.
00:56:42.36\00:56:43.60
There are people who want that
to be true but then they, ok
00:56:43.60\00:56:45.90
like I was saying earlier, ok so
now let's get down to the real
00:56:45.90\00:56:48.60
nitty gritty of religion which
is you don't do this anymore.
00:56:48.60\00:56:51.86
chk, chk, chk and now you
do this chk chk but it's a
00:56:51.86\00:56:54.26
continuum.
00:56:54.26\00:56:55.76
The truth.
00:56:55.76\00:56:58.40
>>This is a reaction to that.
00:56:58.40\00:56:59.70
>>Love is the power that
expels sin from the soul.
00:56:59.70\00:57:02.76
There is no other
source but Calvary.
00:57:02.76\00:57:05.66
>>How do we summarize this you
guys we've got about a minute
00:57:05.66\00:57:08.73
left.
00:57:08.73\00:57:09.50
>>Can I try?
00:57:09.50\00:57:10.60
>>Yeah try do it.
00:57:10.60\00:57:11.63
>>I just want to
try this real quickly.
00:57:11.63\00:57:12.90
I'll ask you guys a question and
I know that you know the answer.
00:57:12.90\00:57:14.86
Was Jesus a sinner?
00:57:14.86\00:57:17.30
>>No.
00:57:17.30\00:57:18.16
>>No.
00:57:18.16\00:57:18.90
>>No.
00:57:18.90\00:57:19.90
Was Jesus treated as
though he was a sinner?
00:57:19.90\00:57:21.40
Did he have the
experience of sin?
00:57:21.40\00:57:23.40
>>Yes.
00:57:23.40\00:57:24.63
>>Ok so it says he made him
who knew no sin to be sin for us
00:57:24.63\00:57:27.10
that we might become the
righteousness of God in him.
00:57:27.10\00:57:29.16
We've come right down to that
verse so Jesus was not a sinner
00:57:29.16\00:57:30.93
but he was
treated like a sinner, ok.
00:57:30.93\00:57:34.36
Now I'm gonna
ask you a question.
00:57:34.36\00:57:36.40
Are you righteous?
00:57:36.40\00:57:37.93
>> No.
00:57:37.93\00:57:38.73
>>In yourself?
00:57:38.73\00:57:39.40
>>No.
00:57:39.40\00:57:40.00
>>No.
00:57:40.00\00:57:41.06
>>No but are you
treated like you're righteous?
00:57:41.06\00:57:41.86
>>Yeah
00:57:41.86\00:57:42.80
>>Christ ok so
here's the illustration.
00:57:42.80\00:57:45.53
Here's my point.
00:57:45.53\00:57:46.63
I want to close with
this at least in my mind.
00:57:46.63\00:57:48.03
The righteousness
that saves you....
00:57:48.03\00:57:50.63
the righteousness that gets
you covenant standing before God
00:57:50.63\00:57:53.93
belongs to you it belongs to me
it belongs to the listeners just
00:57:53.93\00:57:58.70
as much as the sin that
condemned Jesus belonged to him.
00:57:58.70\00:58:03.46
We are standing in
another's covenant faithfulness.
00:58:03.46\00:58:08.73
>>Christ was treated, as
we deserve so that we could be
00:58:08.73\00:58:12.90
treated, as he deserves.
00:58:12.90\00:58:14.73
>>That's right.
00:58:14.73\00:58:15.73
>>And that is
definitey good news.
00:58:15.73\00:58:17.10
>>Amen.
00:58:17.10\00:58:18.16
>>Beautiful.
00:58:18.16\00:58:19.50
>>Amen.
00:58:19.50\00:58:20.76
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