Participants: David Asscherick, James Rafferty, Jeffrey Rosario, Ty Gibson
Series Code: TT
Program Code: TT000011
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00:01 [Music]
00:10 [Music] 00:21 In this conversation, we're going to be talking about the 00:23 humility of God. 00:24 God is great. 00:25 He's massive in power. 00:28 He's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and yet God is 00:33 humble. 00:34 He's condescending. 00:36 He comes down. 00:37 What we've been discovering from scripture is this incredible 00:41 idea of God's covenant faithfulness, and now we've come 00:45 to the Incarnation and the cross, and we're going to, we're 00:49 going to discover in scripture that - that God coming down in 00:52 humility and becoming a member of the human race, and then 00:55 going to the cross on our behalf is the consummate demonstration 00:58 of His covenant faithfulness. 01:00 - Amen. 01:01 - That's where we need to go. 01:02 - When you say there that God is big, and He's powerful, and He's 01:04 all knowing, and yet He's humble, it reminds me of 01:07 something I've said to people in the past. 01:09 God is the only being in the entire universe that has a 01:13 native right to be proud... 01:16 - And yet he's not. 01:18 - And yet He's not. 01:19 Because everybody else, you know Paul says in the New Testament, 01:22 why, what causes you to differ from someone else, why would you 01:24 be...it's not wise to compare yourselves among yourselves 01:27 because all of us are dependant on something or someone and all 01:30 ultimately dependant on God for everything we have. 01:33 The great things, our mind, our money, our whatever the things 01:37 we think we could be proud about. 01:38 Some people are proud about their skin color. 01:40 I don't understand that, but everything that we have is 01:43 because of something else, and yet we're proud about it. 01:46 But God is the one being in the universe who doesn't get His 01:49 attributes from any other source, so He is the one being 01:52 Who could be natively proud, and yet He is the humblest being in 01:56 the universe. 01:57 - Oh, it's astounding. 01:58 2 Timothy chapter 3 and verse 16 would be a good text to begin 02:02 with. 02:03 - I think that's great. 02:05 - We need to - we need to realize basically two things 02:08 here from this text that I think are just powerful. 02:11 Um, 2 Timothy 3:16 or 1 Timothy 3:16? 02:15 1 Timothy 3:16. 02:16 Alright, 1 Timothy 3:16. 02:18 This is talking about the incarnation, and it says, and 02:23 without controversy, great is the mystery of Godliness. 02:27 God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen by 02:32 angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the 02:36 world, received up in glory. 02:39 Astounding. 02:40 - James, you've got the NIV there? 02:42 How is it? 02:43 What is it for the phrase there, "for without controversy," verse 02:46 16? 02:47 - NIV says in 1 Timothy 3:16, beyond all question. 02:52 - Yeah, ok. 02:53 - Beyond all question. 02:54 - That's his point. 02:55 He's basically saying, there's no doubt about it. 02:56 That's how we'd say it in modern vernacular. 02:58 There's no doubt about it. 02:59 - Can't question it. 03:00 Can't argue about it. 03:02 It's a mystery. 03:03 - Great is the mystery of godliness. 03:04 And the first thing, because God in Himself is a mystery. 03:06 We don't understand fully, and we've spent time on that, what 03:09 it means to be God in His nature, but the first thing that 03:14 comes to Paul's mind when he says, without a doubt, great is 03:17 the mystery of godliness, is this phrase here. 03:19 God was manifested in the flesh, and I would go out on a limb and 03:24 hazard, I don't know for sure, but that word there is probably 03:28 carne or some derivative of carne, which is "the flesh," so 03:33 - so that right there is what we mean when we say in-car-nation. 03:39 The incarnation is God in His Godness somehow condescending 03:44 and choosing to become a man. 03:48 - There's a nuance here, great is the mystery of godliness. 03:52 Great is the mystery of what God is like. 03:58 God condescended to become human. 04:01 That's not what we're expecting from God. 04:03 We're not expecting in our general perceptions of what it 04:08 would mean to be God. 04:09 We perceive God as powerful and elevated, and yet here Paul 04:15 seems to be saying, there's something about God that takes 04:17 our breath away. 04:19 There's something about God that is just a great mystery. 04:22 He came down. 04:23 - That's right. 04:24 - God became human. 04:25 - Yeah, in fact, in the NIV it goes on to describe just what 04:29 you're trying to say, Ty. 04:30 It says, beyond all question the mystery from which true 04:33 godliness springs is great. 04:36 - What version is that? 04:37 - NIV. 04:38 - Oh, that's... 04:39 - The mystery from which true godliness springs is great. 04:42 - That was manifested in the flesh. 04:44 God is modeling for us what greatness looks like. 04:47 - Yes. 04:48 - Humility. 04:49 - It's condescension. 04:51 - Greatness is greatness of character, not greatness of 04:52 position. 04:53 - And that's the opposite of what we read about during the 04:55 fall of Lucifer. 04:56 - That's where I was just at. 04:57 You got it. 04:58 - Because the fall of Lucifer is the is the exact opposite. 05:00 - It's the inversion of reality as God created reality to 05:02 operate. 05:03 - I think you dropped Philippians 2, or somebody did, 05:05 and showed the progression of that in Philippians 2 Christ is 05:09 condescending, condescending, condescending, and you - you 05:11 parallel that to the Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 where, where 05:16 Lucifer is seeking to exalt, exalt, exalt. 05:20 - Just as a reminder, what happened in comparing those two 05:23 scriptures, for those who are sitting in on the discussion 05:25 with us and on the conversation with us, Isaiah 14 is, I will 05:29 exalt myself, going up, up. 05:32 I will ascend. 05:33 I will sit on the mount of the congregation, on the sides of 05:35 the North, on the farthest sides of the North. 05:37 Up, up, up, and then the poem concludes, yet you'll be brought 05:41 down to the sides of the pit. 05:42 - The lowest depths of the pit. 05:44 - And then Philippians 2, by comparison, by contrast, is the 05:50 One who was equal with God condescended, became nothing, 05:55 down, down, down, down, down, therefore He's exalted. 05:58 - He's exalted, and every knee bows down. 06:00 Do you remember the distinction we also made that in - in the 06:03 text it says, he will be like the Most High. 06:07 - Yeah. 06:08 - Which is God, and then we said, wait a second. 06:09 We've been describing how God is love, God is love, God is love. 06:11 Did this self-serving creature, Lucifer, want to be love? 06:15 - No. 06:17 - And then we talked about that, how he wanted... 06:19 - The power of God. 06:20 - The power without God's character, so that's very 06:23 profound there. 06:25 - He wanted the position, and you can be sure, we can be sure, 06:27 that of the things that Satan wanted, one of them was 06:31 certainly not to become a human being. 06:34 To become flesh. 06:35 God here, it says, great is the mystery of godliness, that God 06:39 would condescend, that He would divest, and I think we should 06:43 talk about that word when we get to Philippians 2. 06:45 That He would divest Himself. 06:47 Satan's not into divestment. 06:49 He's into investment. 06:50 I want more. 06:51 I wanna be greater. 06:52 I wanna be grander, where God's like, oh, do I need to go down? 06:55 Do, oh, I need to go lower. 06:57 Oh ok, I'll go. 06:58 - Basically Satan's kingdom and character is me, me, me, me, me, 07:02 me, and God's kingdom and character is you, you, you, you, 07:07 you. 07:08 That's the bottom line. 07:09 - Can I introduce a verse here in Hebrews chapter 2? 07:12 I've always, ever since the first time I read this, it's 07:16 always just amazed me, because in Hebrews 2 it talks about the 07:21 condescension. 07:22 We're talking about the incarnation, carne, God becoming 07:25 flesh, but in Hebrews 2 and verse 9, and Ty I know these are 07:29 favorites of yours as well, it says, but we see Jesus who was 07:32 made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of 07:36 death, crowned with glory and honor that He, by the grace of 07:40 God, might taste death for everyone, and I always picture 07:43 this idea where it says that God condescends lower than the 07:50 angels. 07:52 In other words, there's three, to my knowledge, there's three 07:54 sort of categories of beings, at least in scripture. 07:58 I know there's other worlds and so forth, but there's God, then 08:00 there's the angelic order, and there's humanity. 08:02 Those are the three primary orders in Scripture, and God 08:06 skips through order number 2, and He stoops down to order 08:09 number 1, meaning, that humanity is now more closely linked with 08:16 God than even angels would be because we now share the flesh, 08:22 we share humanity with God in a way, in an intimacy, in a degree 08:28 of intimacy that angels should never be able to comprehend. 08:31 - Yeah, yeah. 08:32 It's astounding. 08:34 The idea here is that humanity has been incorporated into the 08:37 Godhead. 08:40 Not being elevated to divinity in nature, but being elevated by 08:44 the condescension and humanity of Christ to become one with the 08:48 triune Godhead in fellowship, in the closest possible intimacy. 08:53 - How old are the angels? 08:54 Like how long have the angels been around? 08:56 I've always tried to think about that. 08:58 - I think it's been about... 08:59 [laugher] 09:01 - I was like seriously, I was like, really? 09:03 - Well, they predate human beings according to Job 38. 09:06 - We can say they've been around for hundreds of years? 09:09 - What? 09:10 - Hundreds? 09:11 - Thousands? 09:12 - I'm- I'm testing. 09:13 Thousands? 09:14 - Sure. 09:15 Yes. 09:16 - Millions? 09:17 Who knows? 09:18 - Perhaps. 09:19 - Here's my point. 09:20 Here's my point. 09:21 - Good, make it because I'm not following you. 09:22 - I've been around 30 years. 09:23 - Serious? 09:25 - Some of you guys are much older. 09:26 Some of you guys are about a hundred years old, but... 09:27 - You're looking good for 30. 09:28 - I've been around for 30 years, but here's the thing. 09:29 Is it possible that in my 30 years of existence because God 09:32 has become part of this race, I can enjoy and interaction and 09:36 and intimacy with God that even angels that have been around for 09:41 hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of years would not be 09:44 able to enter into that type of experience. 09:47 30 year compared to millions of years. 09:49 The difference is that Jesus became part of my race. 09:53 - He's your elder brother. 09:55 - He's my elder brother. 09:56 It's actually in Hebrews 2, right, the elder brother? 09:58 - With perfect theological accuracy, we can say that a 10:00 full-fledged member of the human race, right now, this very 10:03 moment, is seated on the throne of the universe at the right 10:06 hand of God. 10:07 - That's right. 10:08 - A human being is there right now. 10:09 - The significance of this I think is really brought out in 10:12 Philippians chapter 2. 10:14 - Awesome. 10:15 - I'm going to read the NIV because I haven't read this, I 10:17 don't know ever, but in a long time, for sure. 10:19 - What, you're still in Hebrews 2? 10:22 - No, Philippians chapter 2. 10:23 - You've never read Philippians 2? 10:25 - I've read it many times, but I don't know if I've ever read it 10:27 in the NIV. 10:28 - Oh, ok. 10:29 - And the NIV is really unique, I think, to me anyway. 10:31 To my understanding. 10:32 It's talking here in verse 5. 10:35 Let's start there. 10:36 It says, in your relationships with one another, have the same 10:39 mindset as Christ Jesus, so this is relational language. 10:43 It's - it's, as we said in 1 Timothy 3:16, God is giving us 10:48 an example of true godliness, what it means to be godly, and 10:52 then it goes on, it says, who, talking about Christ, being in 10:55 very nature God, did not consider equality with God 10:59 something to be used to His own advantage, rather He made 11:04 Himself nothing. 11:06 He made himself nothing. 11:08 You were talking about the 3 spheres. 11:11 There's God, there's angels, there's man, and then there's 11:15 fallen man, which is man still, but fallen man. 11:17 - That's a good point. 11:18 - Yeah. 11:20 - He didn't just come down to Adam's perfect, Edenic... 11:22 - And then, and then of course in the fallen realm we have 11:25 kings and queens and presidents and we have, you know, I travel 11:30 a lot, we have first class and we have business class and we 11:33 have economy. [laughter] 11:35 And then we have the people who get a ticket at the last minute 11:37 and they're... 11:38 - In coach. 11:39 That's me. 11:40 By the bathroom. 11:41 - By the bathroom. 11:42 [laughter] 11:43 And it says here, He made himself, because when I think 11:45 about Jesus, I think about the fact that He was born in... 11:48 - A manger. 11:50 - A manger. 11:51 - A cattle feeding trough. 11:52 - He made himself nothing. 11:54 He went to the very lowest of the low, and just, to me, I 11:57 can't, I guess I can't relate to that because I want business 12:00 class. 12:01 I want upgrades. 12:02 I want something. 12:03 I want premiere status. 12:04 I want to go in the short line. 12:05 - You have premiere status, don't you? 12:06 On United, anyway. 12:07 [laughter] 12:08 Can I build something into this? 12:10 - Are you done with Philippians 2. 12:12 - No, I mean, I'm done with it, but I just wanted to say that 12:14 was the point. 12:15 That was the point I brought us there for. 12:16 - Because there was something even back in Hebrews. 12:18 - Yeah, that's where I wanted to go. 12:19 I wanna go to Hebrews and Philippians 2 but we - we rushed 12:22 away from Hebrews before we were done there, so go for it. 12:25 - Well, just in Hebrews 2:9, I just wanted to bring this out, 12:27 and I love where you went there, James, by the way, because 12:31 that's a reminder that I need. 12:32 I'm like you. 12:33 I want the upgrade. 12:34 I want the adoration. 12:36 I want the attention. 12:37 I wanna be, I, I, I....and without this model of who, what 12:43 real, um, the word is escaping me, what real beauty looks like, 12:49 is not when you're at the top, but when you're at the bottom 12:54 serving. 12:55 So I need that. 12:56 So, so in Hebrews 2:9, I just love the word "that." 12:59 Um, to me the whole verse hinges on the word... 13:03 - That's exactly what I was going to emphasize, so love it. 13:05 I'm glad we're there. 13:06 - Well, then I'm going to defer. 13:07 Let me defer to you. 13:08 - No, I don't want you to defer. 13:09 - I want to defer. 13:11 - I don't want you to defer. 13:12 - Ok, then I won't defer. 13:13 - I'm just resonating. 13:14 - I'll do it if you guys.... 13:15 - Hebrews 2:9, but we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than 13:16 the angels. 13:17 Jeffery unpacked that. 13:18 Now, for the suffering of death, crowned for glory and honor 13:22 "that" He by the grace of God might taste death for everyone. 13:26 - For the purpose of. 13:27 - For the purpose of. 13:29 - That's right. 13:30 - God cannot die in His Godness. 13:31 In fact, it says, for example in John 1 verse 4, in Him was life. 13:37 I mean, the very principle, we talked about in the beginning 13:41 how God is creative. 13:42 God is relational. 13:43 God creates, so God as God is not gonna suffer a heart attack. 13:46 He's not gonna have a stroke. 13:48 God is not going to die of old age. 13:50 He was. 13:51 He is, and He ever will be, so how is God ever going to 13:54 experience entropy? 13:56 How is He going to experience aging? 13:58 How's He going to experience thirst and hunger and temptation 14:01 and suffering and ultimately death? 14:02 But now, this is where James is going, not just to first class 14:05 death. 14:06 Not even a business class death, but the coach death. 14:10 The death of the cross. 14:11 He has to become a man because God as God is not subject to 14:16 death. 14:17 He becomes a man "that" He can taste death. 14:21 - So - so we could say this way I think, that the incarnation 14:26 was the necessary bridge that God traversed to get to the 14:30 cross. 14:32 He submitted Himself by virtue of the incarnation to a set of 14:36 parameters and limitations that would render His sacrifice on 14:41 the cross real, genuine, and authentic. 14:44 - As a real human. 14:46 Yeah. 14:47 - That's right. 14:48 So, so , so that's the bridge. 14:50 In Paul's theology, in biblical theology, the idea is that the 14:55 incarnation and the death of Jesus on the cross are vitally 14:58 linked. 14:59 - Of course. 15:00 - One occurs in order that... 15:01 - That the other might occur. 15:03 - Yeah, that the other might occur. 15:06 It's an amazing bridge of understanding. 15:08 So, having made that point in Hebrews chapter 2, go back to 15:14 Philippians, and see what you guys think of this, where, and I 15:18 really appreciate the fact that James read from the NIV there. 15:22 The NIV misses the mark, as all translations do on some points 15:28 and then nails it on others, in the New King James version, it 15:32 says, the one who being, verse 6, being in the form of God did 15:36 not consider it robbery to be equal with God but made Himself 15:39 of no reputation. 15:40 That's pretty hard language to wrap your mind around, but the 15:43 word that is here translated "no reputation" in the NIV is 15:47 translated "nothing," and it's a Greek word, keno, and it means, 15:55 "to empty." 15:56 So that's a great translation. 15:58 It means to - to empty the content of something. 16:03 This is amazing because the - the content that makes God the - 16:10 the being that He is falls into 2 basic categories. 16:15 There is the character of God that makes God who God is, and 16:21 the nature of God that makes God who God is, and then there are 16:24 abilities and powers that - that go along with that status as 16:29 God. 16:30 The Phillips translation does something fascinating here. 16:34 It renders... 16:35 - I love that translation, by the way. 16:37 - Yeah, it renders the idea of keno, or kenosis, no reputation 16:41 or made himself nothing, as He laid aside His divine privileges 16:46 and prerogatives. 16:48 In other words, He's - He's choosing by the incarnation to 16:53 put into a remission or in an inactive state certain powers 17:00 that are native to equality with God, and we put these in 3 basic 17:05 categories, and they are what we sometimes refer to as the 17:10 omni's. 17:12 God is omnipotent. 17:14 God is omniscient, and God is omnipresent, and these are the 17:20 abilities, the powers, that according to the testimony of 17:23 the Gospel accounts, Jesus laid aside on our behalf in order for 17:29 the cross to become an authentic experience, and there's evidence 17:32 for this in scripture. 17:33 It seems so enormous that it's unbelievable. 17:37 We think, no that can't, really? 17:39 Did He really come down that far? 17:40 Did He lay aside omnipotence? 17:42 Well, Jesus Himself testified. 17:44 He said in John 5:30, I can of mine own self do nothing. 17:50 - Same word there. 17:51 Nothing. 17:52 I don't know if it's the same Greek word, but it's the same 17:54 idea. 17:55 - Yeah. 17:56 So, if Jesus is, we see Him performing miracles and raising 17:57 the dead, the question is, is He exercising His own native 18:01 omnipotence to heal the sick and raise the dead? 18:03 Or is He utilizing and tapping into the omnipotence of the 18:08 Father as a human being? 18:09 Later on... 18:11 - That we all have access to. 18:12 That we all have access to. 18:13 - Yeah! 18:14 Peter and Paul healed the sick and raised the dead. 18:16 They're not natively omnipotent. 18:19 They were tapping into the omnipotence of the Father. 18:22 What's fascinating because in Acts chapter 2 it says that 18:26 Jesus did many signs and wonders, comma, which God did 18:30 through Him. 18:31 So, so we're witnessing the Father's omnipotence on display 18:35 through Jesus the human begin, so He laid aside His 18:39 omnipotence. 18:40 So, what about omniscience? 18:42 The Bible says in Luke's account of the Gospel... 18:46 - We should break down what that even means. 18:47 - Omniscience means to know everything, of course. 18:49 Omniscience. 18:50 Omnipotence, all power, and omniscience, all knowing. 18:53 To know everything. 18:55 And Luke's Gospel says, of Jesus, that the child grew in 19:01 knowledge, as well as in stature, it says. 19:06 Stature meaning, biologically He grew up and went through 19:08 phases... 19:09 - But He grew up intellectually as well. 19:11 - But, but He grew intellectually. 19:13 He grew, He grew in His knowledge. 19:14 That He learned things. 19:16 Things came to be known by Him. 19:18 Now, that's not a description of omniscience. 19:22 God never, never learns anything in His omniscience. 19:26 He never has an ah-ha moment. 19:28 God never, ever says, whoa, I never thought of that before. 19:31 The fact is that Jesus is in a different state now. 19:36 He's in a different state of being. 19:37 He's laid aside these omni's and it's an incredible humility and 19:44 condescension. 19:45 - Maybe that's why He says in Matthew 24 and verse 36, but of 19:48 the day and the hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of 19:53 heaven, but my Father only. 19:54 - Yeah, that's right. 19:57 So, we're going to take a quick break here. 19:58 Ty, you've unpacked omnipotent and omniscient, but I want you 20:00 to speak when we come back even to the issue of omnipresence. 20:03 - Ok. 20:04 - And, we're going to talk just here in our break about, um, a 20:06 school that we all teach at, uh, Arise Australia is our new 20:11 school, and Arise here in America has been running just 20:13 over a decade, and it's a great program. 20:15 We've had hundreds of people, young and old alike come and be 20:19 trained at that, and so we're gonna see a little short on 20:21 that. 20:22 - Amen. 20:24 - ARISE originally started from an acronym and it was a A 20:32 Resource Institute for Soul-Winning and Evangelism. 20:35 So we see ourselves not only as a Bible-working, training, 20:38 evangelism ministry, but as as something more rounded and more 20:42 beautiful and more biblical. 20:43 A discipleship ministry where that sharing, that ministry, 20:47 that evangelism grows out of a rock solid, faith-based 20:51 relationship with Jesus Christ. 20:53 [music] 20:57 - Since I got here to ARISE, I have been captivated since day 21:00 one. 21:02 The teaching and instruction has been phenomenal. 21:03 God has truly blessed us, um, in giving us both practical and 21:06 theoretical, um, guidance, that we may, as Bible workers go out 21:11 and do a good work for the Lord. 21:12 - The program is very practical because not only do you get the 21:20 classroom instruction, but we deliberately designed the 21:23 program in such a way that the students are out on the streets 21:26 and in the homes. 21:28 - The reality is, is that every single year that our students go 21:30 door to door, they encounter people that would otherwise 21:33 never ever step foot in a church anywhere. 21:37 - There's 24 students here and 240 contacts have been made by 21:40 knocking on doors. 21:42 - So the students are out knocking on doors making 21:45 contacts with people in the community to lead them to the 21:47 mission where they'll hear the Gospel preached by an 21:49 evangelist. 21:51 - And so we have the freedom to choose how and when we worship, 21:53 right? 21:54 So, there is no enforced Sunday observance yet. 21:58 - It's been a real privilege to be a part of the crusades and to 22:02 put into practice that which we are learning, and to see what 22:05 God is doing in our lives putting into practice, and in 22:09 the lives of those which we are reaching out to. 22:11 it's been my joy to pray with people, to go visit with people, 22:14 to see people from the doors that we've been knocking on 22:17 getting baptized. 22:18 - We just reached the end of the 18 meetings that we've had here. 22:22 The first ARISE mission that's been run here in Australia. 22:25 Um, the students have been involved in door knocking, Bible 22:29 studies, reaching people at the mission, and it's been such a 22:32 great success. 22:34 - God has been so good to me in giving me this opportunity to 22:37 learn more about Him, the one who I desire to be like, the one 22:41 who I desire to serve all the days of my life, and whether He 22:44 wants me to do a medical profession, whether He wants me 22:47 to do anything, I know that I've been planted on a sure 22:50 foundation, and that's upon His Word. 22:52 [Music] 22:59 So, basically ARISE is a discipleship training school. 23:03 I'm just rejoicing to be a part of it, and uh, the students are 23:07 just a blessing to interact with, and uh, the school now in 23:13 Australia is giving us an opportunity to - to basically 23:17 train young people, or people of any age, to understand the 23:21 scriptures and to really become a vibrant genuine witness for 23:26 Christ in whatever their vocation happens to be that 23:28 they're pursuing in life. 23:29 So, praise God. 23:30 - James just got back from the graduation. 23:32 - ARISE Australia. 23:34 - In ARISE Australia. 23:35 I just got an email from Matt Parr this morning, and he said, 23:37 and he's been to probably seven or eight ARISE commissionings 23:40 and graduations, and he said, uh, in the email he just sent 23:43 this morning that this one that you were just at was a 10 out of 23:46 10, and he said he was crying, he just couldn't, he was just 23:48 crying, and uh... 23:50 - Jim just sent an email that said, um, this side of heaven, 23:53 what was it? 23:54 - It doesn't get any better than this. 23:56 [laughter] 23:57 - Yeah. 23:58 - Praise God. 23:59 Beautiful. 24:00 That was such a beautiful class. 24:02 All the classes are beautiful, but that inaugural class in 24:03 Australia, man they were special. 24:04 - It was powerful. 24:05 God's Spirit was there. 24:06 - Well, speaking of Australia, one of the fascinating things 24:08 I've encountered there on my various trips is t-shirts in 24:13 stores and hats and bumper stickers that say something very 24:19 fascinating. 24:20 Welcome to the top of the world. 24:21 - Right. 24:23 - Because, they're called down under, and we live in the 24:28 northern hemisphere. 24:29 They live in the southern hemisphere, and they're 24:30 basically making the point that really in the larger scheme of 24:35 things in space, who's to say who's on the top and who's on 24:38 the bottom. 24:39 [laughter] 24:40 - I just said that to someone the other day. 24:41 Somebody's response to me was, they said, oh that's obvious 24:43 because the compass points to magnetic north, and I said, well 24:46 why couldn't we just have said, the compass points to magnetic 24:49 south. 24:50 - Because it does. 24:52 [laugher] 24:53 - Well, but, just call north, south, and say that's the top 24:54 and it always goes to the bottom and then we're off to the races. 24:56 - It's rather arbitrary, but in the character and kingdom of God 24:59 it's not arbitrary. 25:01 The fact is that in God's character the way to up is down, 25:04 the top is the bottom, the bottom is the top. 25:06 - The first shall be last. 25:07 The last shall be first. 25:08 - That's right. 25:09 - And we all sense and know what the bottom is. 25:10 We were talking about that in relation to travel. 25:12 I was thinking about that in coach class bathrooms, and 25:16 another thought came to me and that is... 25:18 - We're still in the plane. 25:19 - Well, notice what it says here in Philippians 2, one little 25:21 statement here... 25:22 - I'm never gonna read this verse again the same. 25:24 I will always be thinking... 25:25 - He made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a 25:27 servant. 25:28 - Yeah. 25:29 It's as if he's saying, right there, welcome to the top of the 25:32 world. 25:33 - When I'm on that plane, there's one person that's in the 25:35 back by the bathroom, there's one person that's still lower 25:38 than me. 25:39 They don't even have a seat. 25:40 They give them a jump seat, and that is the stewardess, the 25:42 servant. 25:43 - Wow, you're really unpacking this. 25:44 - The one that is there to serve. 25:46 - You see the Gospel in this entire experience. 25:49 - I see the Gospel on the plane too, actually, because I'm 25:51 always big on online check-in. 25:54 Always make sure you got a good seat before, right? 25:58 But people don't do that, people just show up and they get their 26:00 thing and just... 26:01 - That's me. 26:02 - Blows my mind. 26:03 I don't understand it. 26:04 - Oh, I do that too. 26:05 I'm with ya. 26:06 I'm with ya. 26:07 - So, I got to all this trouble. 26:08 - Some of us are more oriented towards self and more self 26:09 serving and we want to make sure... 26:10 - But watch this amazing condescension on my behalf. 26:11 Watch this. 26:13 - Ok. 26:14 On your behalf? 26:15 Look at his humility. 26:16 Look at his humility. 26:17 - Watch my humility just exude from here. 26:18 So I go through all this trouble to get the proper seat, and 26:20 I'm sitting down and I'm so, I'm so thankful, and I see 26:24 people all, you know, complaining at the seat, they 26:27 got the middle seat, and I'm like, that's your bad, right? 26:30 So then, then the flight... 26:32 - Cause you're a Christian. 26:33 The heart of a true Christian. 26:34 [laughter] 26:35 - That's what I was gonna say. 26:36 - My Christianity's coming up here in a second. 26:37 Then the flight attendant comes and says, sir, uh, I'm sorry 26:40 to interrupt you, but, and then she goes on to explain to me 26:42 that there's a lady who has back pain who got the middle seat, 26:45 and she's saying, do you mind? 26:48 And I say, so what other seats are available? 26:49 A middle seat in the back. 26:52 And I'm like, [sucking in air] 26:54 ... 26:56 - Take a deep breath. 26:57 - Lord Jesus, soften my heart. 26:58 - Recite Philippians 2. 26:59 - Philippians chapter 2. 27:00 [laughter] 27:01 - So, so that's Jesus, man. 27:02 So He... 27:03 - He gets up. 27:04 - He gets up, you know, and He takes the back seat, knowing 27:07 that had the other, had we, had she checked in she would have 27:13 avoided that. 27:15 It was her fault, not my fault, and yet you're in that 27:19 situation, so I gotta admit that it was a great joy to be able to 27:22 say, absolutely, and see her face like, thank you so much. 27:25 - I'm basking right now in the radiance of your humility. 27:27 [laughter] 27:28 - So, no, no, but, correction, that was Jesus shining through 27:32 me. 27:33 - Ok. 27:34 - That's what it was. 27:35 - Christ's humility in you. 27:36 - Love it. 27:37 Love it. 27:38 - Hey, we were in Philippians chapter 2. 27:40 - You were finishing up the omni's. 27:41 Could you do that for us? 27:42 - Yeah, so we were basically saying that - that Jesus in 27:46 becoming human laid aside His divine prerogatives and 27:50 privileges. 27:51 That's the language of the Phillips translation. 27:53 In the NIV, it's, He made Himself nothing. 27:57 That's - that's amazing in and of, made Himself nothing, He 28:01 became a servant, and it goes on and it tells us that the reason 28:04 He did that is so He could suffer at the cross, even the 28:08 death of the cross. 28:09 So, we went through omnipotence, and we saw in chapter 5 verse 30 28:14 in the Gospel of John that Jesus testified of Mine own self I can 28:17 do nothing. 28:18 Then we saw regarding omniscience, or all knowing... 28:23 - He grew in wisdom... 28:24 - Yeah, he grew in wisdom... 28:25 - Yeah, get to omnipresence, you've been over this. 28:27 Get to omnipresence. 28:28 - Omnipresence. 28:29 Calm down. 28:30 Calm down. 28:31 Omnipresence is the hardest one biblically, in my opinion. 28:32 Uh, but I do see that there was the experience of Mary with 28:38 Jesus post resurrection, and that's part of what makes it 28:40 hard for me, where He says to her as she's holding Him, He 28:43 says, detain me not for I have, do you... 28:48 - For I have not yet ascended to My Father. 28:51 - For I have not yet ascended to the Father. 28:53 That's - that's a space statement. 28:54 That's a location statement. 28:56 That's a presence statement, and Jesus is essentially saying, I'm 29:00 right here with you, Mary, right now. 29:02 I'm not with the Father. 29:04 I haven't seen the Father yet. 29:06 I haven't ascended to the Father. 29:07 I'm right here, right now with you. 29:12 - So, there's geographical restriction there, right? 29:14 there's actually another one that's really, really blatant in 29:17 John 16 - Yep, John 16. 29:21 - Where Jesus is speaking to His disciples and He's basically, He 29:25 says something and they're just like, what? 29:27 In verse 7 He says, nevertheless I tell you the truth, it is to 29:31 your advantage that I leave you. 29:35 And you can just imagine... 29:37 - That must have sounded like... 29:38 - What? 29:39 That's like telling your wife, sweetie, I'm not gonna see you 29:41 again, um, but trust me. 29:43 It's for your own good. 29:44 It's like, what do you mean? 29:46 And then it continues, because if I do not go away, the Helper 29:49 will not come to you. 29:50 But if I depart, I will send Him to you. 29:53 I think that's kind of what you're saying there. 29:55 There seems, there's a message here of Jesus is acknowledging 29:58 that He has become so one with humanity that there's something 30:01 going on with the whole omnipresent thing. 30:04 - Right. 30:05 Right, well I think the point is that this renders His 30:07 temptations in the wilderness and His experience at the cross, 30:12 in fact His whole experience as a human being, it renders it 30:16 authentic. 30:17 It's real. 30:18 In other words, He's not - He's not apparently going through a 30:24 temptation or a struggle or a sacrifice as a projection or as 30:30 a charade or something that's just for us to look at and say, 30:34 oh it, that, it looks like He's suffering. 30:36 It looks like He's tempted, but we all know, wink, nod, 30:40 theologically, no, no, the whole time He's transcending the 30:43 suffering. 30:45 He's transcending the temptation. 30:46 He's not transcending it. 30:47 He's actually experiencing it. 30:50 - It's real. 30:51 There was an early, one of the early Christian heresies that 30:53 the Church had to grapple with at the end of the second, 30:55 beginning of the third century was a heresy called Docetism, 30:58 and the word basically comes from the Greek word that means 31:03 "to seem." 31:04 To seem or to appear, and I'll just read here just a quick, uh, 31:08 description of what Docetism was. 31:11 It's exactly what you're describing. 31:13 This is from Wikipedia. 31:14 It says, the doctrine according to which the phenomenon of 31:16 Christ, His historical and bodily existence, and thus above 31:21 all, the human form of Jesus was all together mere semblance 31:25 without any true reality. 31:28 Broadly it is taken that Jesus only seemed to be human, and 31:32 that His physical body was a phantasm, which just means a - 31:36 an apparition. 31:37 - A phantom. 31:38 - A - a - a - like a projection, and there were very good reasons 31:42 for this in - in the uh early church because they were so 31:47 saturated, as we are in different ways today, with Greek 31:49 thinking, with Greek ideas, and one of those Greek ideas was 31:52 that God was just pure existence, pure being, and in 31:55 that sense fundamentally different from, cut off from and 31:59 non-integrated with the material world. 32:03 - The Gnostics were into that, yeah? 32:06 - Well, Docetism was part, was a kind of Gnosticism, so the idea 32:09 here is, well that couldn't really have been... 32:11 - God wouldn't do that! 32:13 - And not only that He wouldn't, but He couldn't. 32:14 Yeah, that's right. 32:15 That it was a projection. 32:16 So your point is awesome here, that scripture doesn't treat the 32:19 incarnation that way. 32:21 The scripture says, no, no, no, no, He was really tempted in all 32:24 point for the purpose of suffering so that He, and I 32:27 think you're exactly on. 32:29 The reason for all this is not just little, theological 32:32 details. 32:33 It's so that He could experience that which He couldn't 32:35 experience if He remained aloof from us in heaven. 32:37 - If it were a projection, God would be the ultimate hypocrite. 32:40 God would be the ultimate actor whose basically telling us a 32:45 lie. 32:46 - Yeah, and if Jesus didn't become human, if He remained God 32:48 and didn't become human, He couldn't be tempted. 32:50 James says that God can't be tempted. 32:52 - Yeah, he cannot be tempted with evil, that's right. 32:55 - But He was literally tempted. 32:57 - Can we go to Matthew 4? 32:58 Can we do that? 33:00 - Yes. 33:01 Let's go there. 33:02 - Um, Ty, I love, by the way, what you just said. 33:03 Absolutely love what you just said about if He was, if it was 33:04 a projection, and if He was just pretending, then God is... 33:10 - The ultimate hypocrite. 33:13 - He's the ultimate hypocrite because check...that's actually 33:16 what the word hypocrite means, as you know, to act, but check 33:18 this out. 33:19 Even actors in a movie, when an actor is acting in a movie, 33:21 whatever movie star, or a guy or a girl, we all know and they 33:25 know, there's an agreed upon awareness, that's not really who 33:28 they are. 33:29 They're pretending, right? 33:30 So, so we give them a pass, so to speak, but if God was 33:33 pretending all along, but not letting on. 33:37 Oh, no, no, pretending like it's real, but actually...in other 33:41 words, if that's what was going on behind the curtain, 33:43 Wizard of Oz style, so to speak, well then, what kind of a God is 33:45 that anyway? 33:48 That is outright deception, and that is, runs exactly against 33:52 the grain and against the character of what we've been 33:53 learning about God up to this point. 33:55 - Did the disciples struggle believing that it was actually 33:57 Him and it was the real thing? 33:59 - Of course they did! 34:00 Of course they did! 34:01 - When He appeared to them, didn't He say like, didn't He 34:04 say, uh, anybody got any fish? 34:05 - Yeah. 34:06 - Yeah. 34:07 - Anybody got any fish? 34:08 - This was post resurrection. 34:09 - Yeah, post resurrection. 34:10 Yeah, yeah. 34:11 - Touch Me and see this is flesh and blood. 34:12 - Anybody got any food? 34:13 This is the real thing. 34:15 - Jeffrey, it's the real thing after the resurrection, so this 34:16 loops back to the point that you made back at the beginning of 34:18 our conversation, and that is that He's retained our humanity. 34:20 - Yeah. 34:22 - Jesus didn't take our humanity into the grave and then come out 34:26 of the grave in the resurrection having laid it aside. 34:29 He came out of the grave as much a human being as He went into 34:33 the grave, with a glorified body, yes, but as much a human 34:38 being as He went into the grave, and He took that very humanity 34:41 to the highest heavens, and He's there right now, a member of the 34:45 human race. 34:46 Our brother. 34:47 A member of the human race. 34:48 - God is also a member of the human race. 34:50 - One of my favorite authors uses the language that - that 34:54 heaven, or that humanity is enshrined in the bosom of 34:58 heaven, or something like that. 34:59 - Bosom of divinity. 35:01 - Yeah, it's enshrined. 35:03 That - that the picture frame around the humanity of Christ is 35:06 divinity. 35:07 He is God and, you called Him earlier, the God-man, and you 35:09 use that language, that's like our own invented word but 35:12 because it's a, it's a new novel, unique reality, what else 35:16 are you gonna call it? 35:18 He's God. 35:19 He's man. 35:20 He's the God-man. 35:22 - It's a mystery. 35:23 - So, so in Matthew 4, we have here the three temptations, and 35:26 I don't know how much depth you want to go into here, but the 35:28 fact that the Bible calls these temptations. 35:31 I'll just read here verse 1, now Jesus was let up by the Spirit 35:33 into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil, and when 35:37 He had fasted 40 days and 40 nights, there's huge 35:39 significance there, we won't get into right now, afterward he was 35:41 hungry. 35:42 That's one of the great understatements of the Bible, 35:44 um, then he answered and, but ok, so now, if you are the Son 35:49 of God, command these stone to be made bread. 35:51 He says, it is written, man shall live, um, not by bread 35:54 alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of 35:56 God. 35:57 Then the second temptation, it says here that um, if you're the 36:00 Son of God then throw yourself down because it's written that 36:02 the angels will take care of you. 36:03 I'm just summarizing here. 36:04 Verse 7, it is written again, you shall not tempt the Lord 36:07 your God. 36:08 Verse 8, now again the devil took Him on an exceedingly high 36:09 mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their 36:11 glory and said to Him, all these things I will give you if you 36:14 will fall down and worship me. 36:16 Then Jesus said, away from me. 36:17 Away with you, Satan, for it is written, you shall worship the 36:19 Lord your God with, you shall worship the Lord your God and 36:22 Him only shall you serve. 36:23 Then the devil left Him, now, here's the thing I want to bring 36:25 out. 36:26 I'd be very interested to see if you guys have some insights here 36:27 too. 36:28 Each of these three temptations, first of all, the lust of the 36:31 flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. 36:32 The very same temptation... 36:34 - Good point, from 1 John there. 36:35 - 1 John chapter 2. 36:36 Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life. 36:39 Now check this out, each temptation was a legitimate, 36:44 Satan tapped into a legitimate desire on behalf of Satan, but 36:50 to access that legitimate desire in an illegitimate way. 36:53 - On behalf of Christ. 36:54 A legitimate desire on behalf of Christ. 36:56 - Yeah, so for example. 36:57 - A legitimate desire on behalf of Christ. 36:59 - Ok, so maybe I can just say it... 37:01 - Christ had a legitimate desire. 37:03 - Christ's desire were legitimate. 37:04 - Yes. 37:05 - So, for example, being hungry after having not eaten for 40 37:07 days is a legitimate desire, but Satan's desire was not to 37:10 satisfy an illegitimate desire, but a legitimate desire in an 37:14 illegitimate way. 37:15 The second temptation, cast yourself down from the temple. 37:18 Everyone will see that you're supernatural. 37:20 They'll follow you. 37:21 You'll be a messiah figure. 37:23 That's appealing to a natural, legitimate desire in the heart 37:26 of Jesus to be followed as the Messiah, but he says, fulfill it 37:30 in an illegitimate way. 37:32 And the third temptation, all the kingdoms of the earth I will 37:35 give you. 37:36 That was what Jesus wanted. 37:37 - That's what He came for. 37:38 - So in each instance, it's a legitimate temptation, a 37:41 legitimate temptation, but always to go about it in an 37:46 illegitimate way. 37:47 - And isn't that exactly what happened in Genesis chapter 3? 37:51 With Eve. 37:52 You just broke down 3 categories there. 37:54 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 37:55 - It almost seems like, in Genesis chapter 3 it tells us 37:59 that Adam and Eve were tempted with the fruit on the tree, and 38:03 then they fell, and then verse 15 the promise. 38:05 The promise in verse 15 is telling us that at some point in 38:09 history the Messiah will come and nail it where she failed. 38:13 Be victorious where she failed, so three temptations, and 1 John 38:17 chapter 2, you said that you were quoting from... 38:21 - 14, 15, 16. 38:22 - It's 3 categories... 38:23 - 15, 16, 17. 38:24 - Yeah. 38:25 - And those 3 categories, I'm just saying, you can see that in 38:27 Genesis 3. 38:28 It's almost like repeat and enlarge. 38:29 History repeats itself. 38:31 - In other words, not the legitimate desire part, but the 38:32 3 temptation part. 38:34 - Yeah, he's approaching at three different angles. 38:36 - Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life. 38:38 - Is there anything fascinating..... 38:40 - Which is what she was tempted with, in other words. 38:42 - That's right. 38:43 - She was tempted with the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, 38:45 and pride of life to be like God. 38:46 - Desire, because it says that the fruit would make you become 38:49 wise. 38:50 - It looked good to the eyes. 38:51 Right, make one wise. 38:52 Good to the eating. 38:53 - You'll be like God. 38:54 - You'll be like God. 38:55 I love, before we move on here, I just love it here where Satan 38:56 makes an offer to Jesus, and he says, the glory of all the 38:59 kingdoms, I will, all the kingdoms of the world, I will 39:02 give this to you if you...so this is interesting because 39:05 Satan is claiming ownership of all the kingdoms of the world, 39:10 so when Jesus comes into this world in, in the incarnation, 39:14 He's stepping into... 39:15 - Satan's territory. 39:17 - Satan's territory. 39:18 He's coming to reclaim... 39:19 - Enemy occupied territory. 39:20 - Enemy occupied territory. 39:21 - Luke's Gospel renders it a little bit different and expands 39:25 the idea, um, in verse 6 of chapter 4, 4 verse 6 of the 39:29 Gospel of Luke. 39:30 All this authority I will give you and their glory, for this 39:32 has been delivered to me. 39:33 - That's right. 39:35 - So the, for this has been delivered to me part is 39:37 referring back to the Fall in Genesis 3. 39:40 - We delivered it to him because we were given dominion. 39:41 - Human beings were given the stewardship of the earth, were 39:44 given the earth. 39:46 You remember we referenced in a previous conversation, uh, Psalm 39:49 115, even the whole heavens are the Lord's but the earth He has 39:52 given to the children of men, so Adam and Eve are the co-regents 39:56 of planet earth, and by their fall, not only was it a moral 40:01 fall, but it was a governmental fall. 40:03 - There's a legal element to it. 40:04 - Yeah, there was a legal transfer of power into the hands 40:08 of the enemy, and that's why Jesus even in chapter 12 in the 40:13 Gospel of John refers to him as the prince, or the ruler... 40:17 - Of this world. 40:18 - Of this world. 40:19 Yeah. 40:20 - Jesus does not, and I know we have to take a break here, but I 40:22 just want to say this real quickly, Jesus does not deny 40:25 that the world was Satan's to give. 40:28 When he says, all this I will give you, He doesn't say, who do 40:31 you think? 40:32 He understands and acquiesces to a basic legality in the fact 40:36 that, you have a regency of this earth. 40:39 - And He's about to take it back... 40:41 - That's right. 40:42 - By a different set of principles. 40:44 - That's right. 40:45 - By different means, and that's - that's what we'll be looking 40:47 at when we come back after the break. 40:49 - Beautiful. 40:50 - Amen. 40:51 [ music ] 40:57 There are certain key truths that every person on planet 41:00 earth vitally needs to know. 41:01 Truths that operate like a compass pointing our hearts True 41:05 North. 41:06 To All The World is a unique, magazine-style publication that 41:10 highlights several of these vital truths. 41:11 For your free copy, call 877.585.1111 or write to Light 41:17 Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Rd, Jasper, OR 97438. 41:24 Once again or your free copy of To All The World, call 41:28 877.585.1111 or write to Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper Lowell Rd, 41:36 Jasper, OR 97438. 41:39 Simply ask for To All The World. 41:41 [ music ] 41:52 - Ok, so, where we've come from is the Incarnation, and now we 41:55 want to got to the cross. 41:57 - Ok. 41:58 - That's the bridge. 41:59 That's the - the vital connecting link. 42:01 - Yeah, you're right. 42:03 I love it. 42:04 - That's the vital - [laughter] 42:05 - connecting... 42:06 - We're - we're illustrating the cross here, right? 42:07 - How? 42:08 - He's giving me his ball, see? 42:09 - I didn't give it to you. 42:11 You took it. 42:12 - He's emptying himself. 42:13 He's making himself nothing. 42:14 - But you did take it. 42:16 - I'm on the verge of carpal tunnel. 42:17 I need it back. 42:18 Ok. 42:19 - See that? 42:20 [laughter] 42:21 - Here's - here's the thing. 42:22 The - the incarnation prepared the way for the cross. 42:23 That's what David was emphasizing in Hebrews 2. 42:26 - That's right. 42:27 - And verse 9, right? 42:28 - The word "that." 42:29 - The word "that." 42:30 Ok, Jesus became human that he might taste death for every 42:34 human being, right? 42:35 So, so we've talked about the Incarnation and what it 42:38 entailed. 42:39 Now, the cross needs to be explored in the light of the 42:44 Incarnation. 42:46 That's the point. 42:47 Now, I don't know where you guys want to go or what you're 42:49 thinking about the cross, but I'd like to start in Matthew 26. 42:52 - Ok. 42:53 Yeah. 42:54 - Matthew 26. 42:55 So, in Matthew 26 Jesus is entering into Gethsemane with 43:00 His disciples, and as He makes His way with them into this 43:07 place of prayer that He's visited before, the Garden of 43:10 Gethsemane, in verse 36, then Jesus came with them to the 43:14 place called Gethsemane and said to His disciples, sit here while 43:19 I go and pray over there. 43:21 Verse 37, and He took with Him Peter and the two sons of 43:25 Zebedee, that's James and John, and He began to be sorrowful and 43:29 deeply distressed. 43:31 Now watch this language in verse 38. 43:34 Then He said to them, My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto 43:40 death, even to the point of death. 43:43 Stay here and watch with me. 43:44 Verse 39, and He went a little farther and He fell on His face, 43:46 and He prayed saying, oh my Father, if it is possible, let 43:51 this cup pass from Me. 43:53 Nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will. 43:56 This, He hasn't even reached the cross yet, and I wanna, I wanna 44:02 just point out, Jesus tells the disciples, right here, right 44:07 now, in the Garden of Gethsemane, before any physical 44:10 torture has been inflicted upon Him, He says I'm dying at the 44:14 soul level of my being. 44:17 The word soul here in the Greek is psyche. 44:20 Psyche. 44:22 Jesus is experiencing some kind of psychological agony, some 44:27 kind of psychological trauma that's - that's - that's inching 44:31 into death. 44:33 He, he says, I'm dying right here in the Garden of 44:36 Gethsemane. 44:37 He's obviously not dying of physical causes. 44:40 They haven't tortured Him yet. 44:42 He hasn't been crucified yet. 44:43 Jesus is experiencing something far more significant than mere 44:48 suffering and death. 44:52 Jesus is taking into Himself the sin of the word in some sense 44:57 that we could never fully comprehend. 44:59 - The weight of the sins of the world are beginning to crush the 45:01 life out of Him. 45:03 - That's right. 45:05 - It's, do you think it's almost as if, I don't know how far to 45:07 take that, but it's almost as if the cross is inconsequential. 45:10 Even if the cross hadn't approached, at some point Christ 45:14 would have died. 45:15 - Man, that's a huge thought. 45:16 - Christ, the weight would have crushed Him. 45:17 The fact that the cross was on His path happened to be the way. 45:22 - Jeffery, that triggers a thought. 45:23 I think that there's Biblical evidence for that, and it's in 45:26 Luke's Gospel, where while Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, 45:31 He was so heavy... 45:32 - That's exactly... 45:34 - And He's sweating, Luke's Gospel adds, He was sweating, as 45:35 it were, great drops of blood, and then an angel of God 45:39 appeared strengthening Him. 45:40 - I'm literally parked right there. 45:43 - Are you? 45:45 The implication is that Jesus would have died in Gethsemane 45:46 and never reached the cross if the angel had not intervened to 45:50 strengthened Him. 45:52 - That's right. 45:53 - The very point that you're making. 45:55 - That's heavy. 45:56 So, so the mission was so intense that Jesus had to invoke 46:01 so to speak, help in order to lift Him up as He was, as He was 46:07 there. 46:08 I love the language here. 46:09 Being in agony. 46:10 - Not physical agony, right? 46:12 - It's gotta be beyond physical. 46:13 If it was just physical... 46:15 - Well, well, I think we can't say. 46:16 Go ahead. 46:17 You go ahead, and then I'll say what I'm gonna say. 46:20 - I was just gonna say, if it was merely physical, then 46:22 somebody pointed out, there's been generals, army generals 46:25 that have died for their people or died... 46:28 - In torturous ways. 46:29 - In torturous ways, and let's be, let's be honest, Christ was 46:32 tortured, no doubt, but surely we can conceive of other 46:36 physical tortures throughout history that would have been 46:39 equal to or even more horrific. 46:41 - Certainly. 46:43 - Right? 46:44 So, the awe here is not merely in the physical. 46:47 It has to go beyond the physical. 46:48 - That's right. 46:50 You got my point. 46:51 - I think beyond is good, and not merely. 46:53 That, that would be the accurate language. 46:56 He did suffer physically, no doubt about it, but what's 46:57 happening in Gethsemane is described by Jesus Himself in 46:59 John chapter 3, I'll just throw these out, and by Paul in 2 47:05 Corinthians 5:21. 47:06 In John 3, Jesus likened Himself and His upcoming sacrifice on 47:10 the cross to the serpent being lifted up on the pole in the 47:13 wilderness. 47:14 The serpent, throughout scripture, as we've talked about 47:16 on a previous conversation is associated with sin and evil and 47:21 the devil, in fact. 47:23 So, Jesus, Jesus, we always think of Him in terms of, He's 47:27 the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, and that's 47:31 an accurate symbol as well, but here Jesus in John 3 identifies 47:34 with the serpent? 47:35 He identifies with, with the emblem of evil itself? 47:38 And then, in 2 Corinthians 5:21, Paul says, tells us exactly 47:45 what's happening here. 47:46 He says, He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might 47:52 become the righteousness of God in Him, so sin. 47:55 He's, he's taking upon Himself, into Himself sin, shame, guilt. 48:03 He's experiencing what does Isaiah 53 say? 48:06 Numbered with the transgressors, as if He Himself is guilty of 48:12 sin? 48:13 - You know, Ty, that text in 2 Corinthians 5:21, I was, I began 48:17 to read this a bit differently just trying to put myself in the 48:20 text, and - and every place where it says He or Him to 48:24 insert who it's referring to, and when it talks about sin, to 48:28 just pick a sin, just pick a any sin. 48:30 Let me just explain what I'm saying here. 48:33 For the Father, now I'm inserting, for the Father... 48:37 - Just repeat the verse you're on. 48:41 I know you said it once, but just so we're all there. 48:43 - 2 Corinthians 5:21. 48:45 For the Father made the Son who knew no lies to be a liar for 48:51 Jeffrey. 48:52 So that Jeffrey might become the righteousness of God in the Son. 48:58 So, in every way, you were just saying that He became 49:03 identified. 49:04 He's the serpent. 49:06 He's not just the lamb, He's also the serpent, but the 49:08 serpent was the symbol of... 49:10 - Of evil and sin. 49:11 - Of evil and sin, so Jesus becomes identified with that. 49:14 - Although He's perfectly innocent. 49:16 - On our behalf. 49:17 And so I always picture, like DVD's in heaven, like there's a 49:20 big old library of DVD's that represent each and every one of 49:23 our lives, and the Gospel message is that God presses play 49:27 on the DVD and Jeffrey's story plays. 49:29 In every juncture where there's sin in my life, He presses 49:34 pause, I'm out of the frame, and Jesus in in the frame. 49:37 - Wow. 49:39 - And he presses un-pause, and the movie plays on, and Jesus 49:42 now begins to take my place in every single point in my life, 49:46 and I think that's what that text is communicating. 49:49 He has become sin for, for the human race. 49:53 - He, He was not Himself a sinner, but He was treated as a 49:59 sinner. 50:00 He had the experience of a sinner, in fact, you're there, 50:02 so I'm just gonna quickly grab that. 50:05 If we go back to the covenantal faithfulness theme that's we've 50:06 been carrying through here.... 50:08 - That's exactly where I was going... 50:09 - Oh, well you go, go there, because - No, no, you got it. 50:10 You got it. 50:11 You got it. 50:12 Go. 50:13 - Un, 2 Corinthians 5:21, for He hath made Him, for the Father 50:15 has made the Son who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might 50:18 become the righteousness of God which is God's covenantal 50:22 faithfulness in the Messiah's faithfulness to the covenant. 50:25 And the truth of the cross is that He was faithful unto death. 50:28 There's this great line where C.S. 50:32 Lewis speaks about when a temptation comes to us, we often 50:36 don't feel the full force of the temptation because we give into 50:39 it, so you know, let's say the temptation is 10 units, we often 50:43 fall at 2 or 3 or 4 or 5, but Jesus, and there are some times 50:48 we overcome temptation, praise God, but every temptation that 50:50 came to Jesus, 10 out of 10, He exhausted it, so the 50:53 temptation... 50:54 - So, He took it to the most intense level? 50:55 - To the most...He exhausted the temptation, the temptation never 50:58 exhausted Him. 50:59 He was faithful unto death. 51:02 The temptation to, to cut Himself off from humanity. 51:06 The temptation to just whisk His way back to heaven was 51:09 overwhelming, and temptations just kept throwing themselves at 51:13 Christ, and He just exhausted each one. 51:15 It came to Him, and they fell like toy soldiers. 51:17 - I love that, because there's a meter that the devil... 51:20 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 51:22 - He pumps up the volume, but he only has to pump it up so far, 51:24 and then I fall. 51:25 - Well of course he's pumping up the volume... 51:26 - In a sense it's like running a marathon. 51:28 - Very much so. 51:29 - Because - because that first 10 miles, even the first 15 51:30 miles, it's hard, but when you get to those final miles... 51:35 - Yeah, the 20, the 22. 51:38 - Then you experience the physical exertion to the point 51:42 of an intensity that you want to succumb to. 51:45 - The human body just want to shut down. 51:47 - Yeah. 51:48 We've run like 5 miles or 10 miles, and we, we stop and yield 51:51 to the temptation, but Jesus ran the gambit of sin straight to 51:55 the conclusion. 51:56 - Sure, because we always say that He was tempted in every 51:59 form that we've been tempted in, but then you think, was Jesus 52:01 ever a teenager in Miami? 52:06 Was Jesus ever a single mom in the Bronx? 52:09 You know? 52:11 What do you mean He was tempted in every single form? 52:14 But I think that's the point is that in every possible category, 52:16 the devil pumped up the volume all the way up, and it 52:21 encompasses every possible human scenario. 52:24 - Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. 52:26 - But there's more than temptation, although that's 52:29 huge. 52:30 There's something going on at the cross and, in Gethsemane and 52:34 at the cross that Isaiah 53 outlines that is just 52:37 phenomenal, that you're talking about, Jeffrey. 52:40 In chapter 53 of Isaiah, verse 6, notice the language here, 52:44 it's a - it's a messianic prophecy pointing forward to 52:47 Jesus. 52:49 It says, all we like sheep have gone astray. 52:53 We have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord, that's 52:57 God the Father, has laid on Him, that's Jesus the Messiah, the 53:01 iniquity of us all, so here the - the sin problem in total is 53:08 put upon Jesus. 53:09 He's bearing it, but here's the thing, He's not bearing it as a 53:13 mere physical weight upon His body. 53:16 It's not like a sack of rocks or potatoes. 53:18 It's not pressing on His shoulders. 53:21 It's pressing on His mind, because the prophecy goes on, if 53:24 you just skip down to verse 10, and yet it pleased the Lord to 53:27 bruise Him. 53:29 He has put Him to grief when You make His soul an offering for 53:34 sin. 53:35 He shall see His seed. 53:36 He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall 53:38 prosper in His hand. 53:40 Look at verse 11. 53:41 He shall see, that is, God the Father shall see the labor of 53:44 His soul. 53:46 The labor of the Messiah's soul under the weight of sin, and 53:51 then that labor is described in the latter part of verse 11 as 53:55 saying He shall bear their iniquities in His soul. 54:00 And then the final one, verse 12, it says, middle of verse 12, 54:04 because He poured out His soul unto death. 54:09 Later on, He bore the sin of the many and made intercession for 54:15 transgressors. 54:16 Repeatedly you have the language of, of bearing, carrying, sin, 54:22 it's weight, and we know from personal experience, at least in 54:25 a microcosm sense, what it means to bear the shame and weight of 54:30 sin, but we have never carried or borne the weight of our sin 54:37 in totality. 54:38 - No. 54:39 - We've felt guiltily. 54:40 We've felt shame, but we have never actually borne the full 54:44 psychological ramifications of our guilt. 54:47 - Yeah, look at these verses again in Isaiah 53 verses 3 and 54:50 4 because they set us up for this. 54:52 It says in verse 3, He was despised and rejected of men, a 54:56 man of sorrows, where does that take place? 54:58 - In the mind. 54:59 - Acquainted with grief. 55:01 Where does that take place? 55:02 - In the mind. 55:04 - We hid our faces from Him. 55:05 He was despised. 55:06 We didn't esteem Him. 55:07 Surely He has born our grief's. 55:09 He's carried our sorrows. 55:11 We esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. 55:15 Where is all that happening? 55:17 Not just the grief's and the sorrows, but the way that we 55:20 relate to Him, the way that we esteem Him, or disesteem Him. 55:22 - It's, it's in the mind. 55:24 The thing I want to say about this is Paul in Galatians 3 55:26 says, cursed is everyone who hangs on the tree. 55:30 He's quoting Deuteronomy here. 55:32 We've talked a lot about covenant, and we don't have time 55:36 to develop this because we're coming to the end of the 55:38 conversation, but this would be something for our listeners to 55:39 think about, to tune into, and for us as well. 55:42 Jesus not only kept the covenant between God and man, according 55:48 to the covenant curses of Deuteronomy 28 and 29, Jesus 55:52 bore those covenant curses in Himself, so He is both the 55:57 positive aspect of the covenant. 55:59 He loved the Lord His God with all His heart, His mind and 56:02 soul, and His neighbor like Himself, but then He bears the 56:04 covenant curses, and hangs on the cross, forsaken, forlorned, 56:09 and tempted in both physical and especially mental and 56:14 psychological ways, and He exhausts the temptation. 56:17 His last words are, Father forgive them. 56:20 They don't know what they do. 56:22 - Yeah. 56:23 - And He dies. 56:24 - You know I can really relate to this in a personal way 56:25 because when I was a kid, I have a twin sister, and every once 56:28 and a while we would get into arguments and fight, and 56:31 physically I was stronger than her, and I've always known 56:36 that things don't hurt me as well physically. 56:39 She could hit me, and she could hurt me, and it really didn't 56:43 hurt, but what really hurt me was the fact that that she did 56:47 it. 56:48 It was the fact that she did it. 56:50 Even, in any situation, physically it wasn't that 56:53 physical pain. 56:54 - That's not the point. 56:55 - It was the mental. 56:57 It was the fact that someone could do that. 56:58 Someone could inflict that pain. 56:59 That's where I broke down. 57:01 That's where I felt the pain, and I think that when you look 57:04 at the cross and you look at all the physical pain, that is 57:07 allowed in order to give us an indication of the mental 57:11 suffering that Christ is going through. 57:12 - Jeffrey said something earlier. 57:14 When you first said it, I'll be honest, Jeffrey, I cringed just 57:16 a little bit. 57:17 I was like, oh, I - I drew back from it, but then I embraced it. 57:19 You said, in a sense the cross is almost inconsequential. 57:23 The, the actual physical, torturous suffering, that's not 57:27 the point. 57:28 It could have been in a field. 57:30 It could have been at a guillotine. 57:32 It could have been some other way. 57:34 It wasn't that, but the external, physical death is just 57:37 the surface, and I think you're right. 57:39 It's a window into what's going on in here. 57:43 - Yeah, yeah. 57:44 - It was the worst torture that could be, was created by man at 57:47 that time. 57:48 - The bottom line of this beautiful truth is that God 57:52 literally loves every human being more than His own life. 57:56 - That's right. 57:58 Hallelujah. 57:59 - Jesus became human, and he experienced all the 58:00 ramifications of our sin and guilt. 58:02 He took it to the cross. 58:04 He died on our behalf, not because His back was against a 58:07 wall or He had to, but because He literally loves us more than 58:09 Himself, and that is the ultimate fulfillment of the 58:15 covenant promise. 58:17 God is faithful in Christ. 58:20 - Yes. 58:21 - Amen. 58:22 - Thank you Jesus. 58:24 [Music] 58:26 To receive our free, monthly newsletter and a list of Light 58:28 Bearers resources, visit us online at LightBearers.org or 58:33 call us toll free at 877.585.1111. 58:38 You can also write to us at Light Bearers, 37457 Jasper |
Revised 2014-12-17